Judge John Hodgman - Live From Turners Falls, MA 2016

Episode Date: October 28, 2016

"May It Please The Shorts" and "Amphibious Corpus," taped in front of a live audience at Shea Theater in Turners Falls, MA during the 2016 Tour of Live Justice! Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn also catch up with friends of the court, Monte Belmonte and Emily Brewster! Plus, the return of Swift Justice and songs from Zara Bode of The Sweetback Sisters!

This week's Judge John Hodgman was recorded in front of a real live audience at the Shea Theater in Turners Falls, Massachusetts. Welcome to the live taping of Judge John Hodgman tonight at the Shea Theater in Turners Falls, Massachusetts. As the audience knows, Jesse Thorne had to leave to have his goiter lanced and sucked. We sent out a call for disputes, and I, your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte, will bailiff with the judge, John Hodgman, for these disputes here at the Shea. We have a great show planned, composed of Western Mass-themed justice. So, shall we get to it? Let's bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome Matthew and Mary-Kate to the stage.

The case, may it please the shorts. Matthew brings the case against his wife, Mary Kate. She gives him a hard time when he wears a bathing suit or running shorts to sleep. He thinks this is perfectly fine and would like for her to reserve her judgment. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Thank you. An uncouth dresser, a student wearing a football jersey top, a pair of cut-off shorts and leather sandals,

a typical example of uncouth style. Simply slipping into a pair of Bermuda shorts is no guarantee that you will look stylish. Strut in a brisk and confident way to complete your style? What can a man wear that is superior to the combination of an oared button-down shirt and a pair of Czech-Indian Madras Bermuda shorts?

I ask you, summertime, fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte, is there an answer? Do not answer. Instead, swear them in. Matthew, Mary-Kate, please rise, as you already have, and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

so help you boxers or briefs or speedos or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling even though he wears a bikini to bed every night? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Matthew and Mary-Kate, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Jason, no, what's your name? Matthew, right? I apologize.

Matthew, you have been brought here against your will by Mary-Kate, so you have the option to guess first or to make Mary-Kate guess first. What are you going to do? I'm going or to make Mary-Kate guess first. What are you going to do? I'm going to pass to Mary-Kate. Pass to Mary-Kate. Pretty typical move. Mary-Kate, it's up to you.

What are you going to guess? I'm going to guess that it may have been a runway intro on Saved by the Bell. Runway intro on Saved by the Bell. Enterway intro on Saved by the Bell. Enter that into the guest book, Monty. It goes in the guest hole. By the way, everyone should note that Monty Belmonti is also wearing a wonderful hat. That's because I'm a frontier bailiff and goiter lancer.

People who are listening to this on the podcast edition can merely imagine our hats. Think Pharrell Williams. I'm happy for me. Please draw pictures of the hats you think you are wearing. Send them in. You will get no prize, but I will be pleased. All right, we heard Mary-Kate's guess.

Matthew, what is your guess? I won't be able to produce a specific name, but I'm thinking some sort of men's how-to-dress fashion etiquette style pamphlet. That is not a guess because it's a description of something. Right. Even though you don't know the answer, can you come up with what a thing like that would be called?

How to dress. What if the first word in it was take? No, sorry. No, I'm telling you to guess something, anything that begins with the word take. Take this off. Take This Off, by the way, is the companion blog to Jesse Thorne's Put This On. It's the erotic companion. It's Put This On, nighttime. That may be registered in the guess hole as well, but but now that I look them over all guesses are wrong but oh Matthew you were so close you got take that was amazing I really thought you were going to get it those are actually captions from a book called take ivy which is an amazing

book which you must all get immediately I buzz'm buzz marketing it. I get nothing from this. But in 1965, four Japanese advertising guys, a photographer and a fashion designer, came to the United States to take candid photographs of dudes at various Ivy League universities to document their style. It was one of the earliest examples of creep shots. They just snuck up on these incredibly well-dressed young men

as they went about walking across their quads and basking in their incredibly white male privilege and dressed in some of the most beautifully made preppy clothes of all time. Take Ivy is published by our neighbors down in Brooklyn, New York. Powerhouse book was reissued in 2010. I encourage you to look for it because it's really great. But you're both wrong, so we have to hear this case. So let's hear it, Mary Kate.

What is the problem with your friend Matthew? First of all, are you married? We are. And you actually cohabitate? We do. Okay, great. And here in what town? In Greenfield.

In Greenfield, Massachusetts. Jesse Thorne is making a list of references right now. And Greenfield, of course, is the neighboring metropolis. Absolutely. Which in the extended DVD of my comedy special Ragnarok I described as a shithole. And that's why

the show isn't Turner's. I just wanted to put that out there in case you were going to start judge curialing me by saying he can't judge me fairly because he's biased against Greenfield. I later retracted it, and I apologize.

In Greenfield, I like Greenfield very much. I know it very well. What street, what specific address do you live at? I will not disclose that information. Very well.

And what do you do there in Greenfield, Massachusetts? I'm a writer and an editor. A writer and editor for a publication or a website or something? For many things, as is the way today. You are a freelance human. Yes. However, my main publication is Edible Pioneer Valley Magazine. Oh, yeah. Fantastic. Be a local hero. Yes. That was a reference. You guys, come on. I understand. You're reference tired out.

Reference exhausted. All right, so that's marvelous. And Matthew, what do you do? I'm a high school English teacher. Oh. Oh. I am married to a high school English teacher. I don't know whether it's a man or a woman.

I've been searching for this person my whole life. It could be you. I got amnesia 10 years ago, and all I remember is a high school English teacher. Do you remember marrying me at some point? I don't. Okay, well, then the quest goes on. In the meantime,

you have a penchant for sleeping in shorts. Very occasionally, yes. Absolutely. Alright. I heard an mmm. I will spousal mmm sustained. I will hear what you have to say.

I would argue that it is not occasionally, and it is not just shorts. It is at least, I say twice a week, Matthew says not, and these aren't just shorts or boxers or, I don't know, pajama short type things. This is a swimsuit or running shorts.

A swimsuit? A swimsuit. Is it like one of those old-timey 1920s swimsuits? Sadly, no. Those full-body swimsuits? You curl your mustache into a handlebar and you put on

your straw boater and lie down for a gentle nap in the past. Lift ginormous dumbbells into the air. If the winter's cold enough, that's a great idea, though. I appreciate that. All right. You are not denying that you have worn a swimsuit to your marital bed. Absolutely not. No denial. And the other shorts that you are accused of wearing to bed are, like, running athletic shorts? Running shorts constructed in a very similar way

to the bathing suit. Yeah, I mean, it's basically the same thing. Yeah. Right. And on the nights that you are not wearing these things, what are you wearing? Other shorts, not meant for swimming. All right, let's get down to it. General bedtime wardrobe for Matthew.

T-shirt, some sort of cotton pants. Right. Not a rash guard? No rash guard. No? Not a parka? Or a shell of some kind? No, sir. Okay.

So a T-shirt and some variety of short pants. Correct. And how large is your variety of short pants that you are turning to your swimsuit and your running shorts in the rotation? I'd say there's probably two pairs in the regular rotation. How many shorts do you have, sir?

Totally. Four pairs. Four. Yeah. And how many nights do you sleep? All of them. Mary-Kate, have you ever purchased a pair of pajamas for your husband? He can buy his own clothes.

That's about all you can say about a high school English teacher. He has actual, like, you know, pajama long pants. You know, the standard, like, plaid, whatever. Sure. Flannel-y. He's got those, too. Right. And I don't know that you have four pairs of shorts.

I think in that four is include, the bathing suits and running shorts are included. Yeah, no, no, I understood that he was talking about two. Okay. So you have one pair of Bermuda shorts, one pair of seersuckers,

running shorts, and then a swimsuit. Do you ever wear them all to bed on the same day? No. You have pajamas, or what your wife calls pajamas. Correct.

I'm about to call this whole thing off. Easy out there. We are in disputed territory in Western Mass. The pajama pajama line. It's like the Red Sox Yankees thing. What do you say? Pajamas. Pajamas, right? Yes. What do you call scallops?

Scallops. Right. Not scallops. That'd be ridiculous. I don't even know what you're talking about. What do you call the sister of your husband? I mean, your sister or your husband. What do you call the sister of your mother or father? The sister of my aunt. Right. Yes. Yeah, okay. It's a quiz show all of a sudden. Where are you from?

I'm from Jersey originally. Oh. Easy. Oh, Western man. She's from here now. You probably all moved here, too. Wait a minute. Yeah.

There are no native Western Massachusettsians. They're just white people from away. native western Massachusettsians. They're just white people from away. But... Before you boo Mary-Kate, let's find out where Matthew's from. Maybe that's worse. Matthew? I grew up in a town called Saugus, Massachusetts.

Oh! North shore of Boston. Saugus. That's right. It's kind of the Jersey of Massachusetts. I'll give you that. But, Mary Kate, he is a Commonwealthian. Yes, it's true.

So he automatically gets a little extra consideration from this court. I apologize. Hilltop Steakhouse. Is that in Saugus? Oh, yeah. See, I can buzz in Saugus? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. See, I can buzzmark at Saugus. Weyloos? Weyloos Pagoda!

I forgot to say it! Sad day when that closed. For those people listening to this podcast of the live Judge John Hodgman from Turner's Falls, Massachusetts, I presume I'm only speaking now to people who are from Massachusetts because the rest of the people have turned it off. But thank you for staying with us, Commonwealthians of Massachusetts. Matthew, you own pajamas or pajamas. Why don't you wear them?

why don't you wear them? So really what it comes down to is when the regular sleeping rotation is dirty, it's being laundered, whatever, the swimming shorts serve as a backup. What do you mean by it's being laundered? They're downstairs and I'm too lazy to go get them. Right, but I mean like you could say when I have put them in the wash

or some mystery person is washing my clothes. No, I'm typically washing the clothes. Okay, absolutely. We'll take credit for it then. So yeah, when the normal clothes are out of the rotation, I will sometimes default to the swimsuit in the drawer and it's comfortable. But not after you've gone swimming. No, never. Like, do you ever go, where do you go swimming?

I actually don't know how to swim. Like, do you ever go, where do you go swimming? I actually don't know how to swim. Next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. There is an obvious lingering question. So these are more aspirational swim trunks. Yeah. Acquired through various means that I honestly can't quite recall.

You don't know where the swimsuit came from? Possibly my brother, possibly my brother-in-law. You wear your brother-in-law's swimsuit into your wedding bed? Thank you. Not twice a week, once a month at the most. Oh, no way! Are you kidding me?

I will allow the spousal no way to sustain. Mary-Kate, are you accusing your husband of lying? Absolutely. Why would he lie in front of all of his Commonwealthian peers? What does he have to hide? How often is he actually wearing the swimsuit, the swimsuit specifically? Okay. Actually. All right. If we're just saying this, because I group these all together in my mind, in one thing, because A, they're not pajamas and B, like texture and all the other stuff that's wrong with it. So the swimsuit alone, I'll say once every 10 days. That's pretty close to once a week if I'm doing my math right.

I'll give him like maybe not always once a week. And your objection to it is what? Is it on the principle that it is not designed for that use? Is it on the principle that it may or may not have belonged to your brother? You mentioned the texture. Is it on the principle that it is weird and slick feeling when you attempt to cuddle up with your husband? Lay it all out for me. Yeah, multiple of these things. So it's not what you wear to bed.

That's weird. You know, like that's a weird thing. Did you know you were marrying a weird dude? Okay, I did. Because this story goes actually, so like one of the very first times that we slept in the same bed together and just slept in the same bed,

you know, dating, blah, blah, whatever. I'll mention that my children are in the audience. Okay. It's clean. We just slept in the same bed, it was really. Did you do it? We did not do it. Because I'm thinking this might be a great time

for my children to learn what doing it is. Well... children to learn what doing it is. Well. When Mary, Kate, and Matthew love each other very much. But if you're not sure. They occasionally put on bathing suits. And the net acts as a barrier inside the men's bathing suit. And the net acts as a barrier

inside the men's bathing suit. Okay, first time you guys slept chastely together. Yes. When you were dating, you were on one of those nap dates. Yeah. No, it was like, you know,

like got late, was still there, whatever. Oh, I'll climb into bed. And there was no doing it, in part because he was wearing jeans in the bed. This was before you were married? Yeah. So you had a chance to get away. I know, I know. He's got a lot of other good qualities. Matthew, I'm going to ask you this straight up. Do you sleep in your clothes? No. To speak to that point, I like to remember it as we were newly together in a farmhouse in Amherst, beautiful setting, and sitting up late into the night talking and just sort of... There's a lot of pride among the micro communities of Western Massachusetts.

Yes, yes. Just sort of adorably drifted to sleep and happened to be wearing my jeans. That's really what it was. Okay, except... Well, wait a minute. What? I need to get to the bottom of this, because I need to know whether this was a planned sleep or a casual fallen asleep

in the middle of an incredible meet-cute rom-com situation. Because was this a situation where normal people would be changing into pajamas or pajamas? Mary Kate? Pajamas. Jim James? Hmm. What were you sleeping on?

You were in a farmhouse. Yeah. Was it a bale of hay? It was not a bale of hay. A bale of hay? It was what Matt used as a bed at the time, which was... It was a futon. A futon.

You were living on a futon in a barn? Were you a migrant laborer? Oh, no, I forgot. You're a high school English teacher. I forget. Never mind. Of course you were. Of course you were.

Lucky you weren't living in a shed. It was a house. But it was a farmhouse. Yes, correct. On a futon. Yes. And Mary-Kate had come over. You guys were going to pop open a bottle of wine and watch a DVD or something.

What was the date? I don't know if we've ever been on a date. Have you ever met before? Just answer my question. Why were you in his farmhouse, Mary Kate? Because we were entering, it was the, we were, what's that word, English teacher? Coitus. No.

No, no. I'll explain that to you kids later. We were not entering coitus. We were starting a relationship. Just tell, I don't care about the phase. Specificity is the soul of... Making out. Yeah, I know.

That's not, I'm not looking for those details. So what... You came over for dinner? Did you come over to watch, why were you in his house? What was the ostensible reason for being there aside from coitus? Do you remember?

No. I mean, it was a date, but we didn't have... Because it's cheap to go to your house and not to somewhere else. So what did you do? Did you sit there and listen to record albums? Did you... Yeah, we did. Play cards? We didn't play cards.

We surely listened to music. We sat on the roof. You sat on the roof of the farmhouse. Yes. Romantic. You looked at the stars. Of course. See, now we're getting somewhere.

And then at some point, Matthew turned to you and said, you know, I own a futon. you know, I own a futon. Would you like to see precisely how uncomfortable it is? And then Mary Kay was like, yeah, sure, should I put on some soft clothes?

Should I put on my pajamas? Pajamas? And Matthew was like, no, it's just sort of a come-as-you-are situation. Question, Mary-Kate? Yeah. When Matthew fell asleep in his clothes on the futon, did you change into other clothes to sleep there? No.

So what is the point of this story? The only reason I did not change into... I wasn't planning... I know your kids are here, but... Hang on. I wasn't planning on sleeping in my jeans. Children, pay attention. You were not planning... Oh, you were not planning to fall asleep, exactly.

Yeah. Right. I thought we'd be sleeping in something else, but not the clothes we had been wearing during the day. Right, because you had bought special outfits of some kind. Costumes. Yes. Right, because you had bought special outfits of some kind. Costumes. Yes. Right.

But it was such a tiring night staring at the stars that you fell asleep, and he slept in his jeans, and then you woke up in the morning, and you looked over, and you saw his jeans, and you were like, oh, my God. Is that right? Has he ever slept in his jeans since then? Yes or no?

It's a simple question. I mean, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say no. Matthew, do you ever go to bed at weird hours? No, pretty early, consistently, nothing else. Do you guys go to bed separately or together? Does one of you stay up and watch Netflix all night long and then come to bed? I'm always to bed earlier.

You're always to bed earlier? Almost every time. And so you come to bed and you see him lying there in his swimsuit going, get out of my bed, Aquaman. Well, it's even worse because, you know, it's dark so you don't actually even see. And then you go, and you get in bed, and you snuggle up, and then, you know. And then you feel that it's a bathing suit. And you're like, oh, my God! Why are you wearing a bathing suit? I believe you have some evidence you would wish to enter into consideration. So now, also, I want to just say, there is another bathing suit that mysteriously went missing.

There was another bathing suit? Yeah, that's not included. That you attempted to bring? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Was it another one of your family members' bathing suits? It, yes. What are you entering into evidence?

I am entering into evidence this pair of running shorts. Okay. Summertime guest time, Bailiff Monty Belmonte, enter that as exhibit A. All right. Pair of black athletic shorts with orange piping on the side so now the inside is an important part of this too so make sure you show that

and this is a pair entered as exhibit B a pair of swim shorts with personal netting extended for your perusal. Black swim shorts with a blue stripe on the bottom. May I please feel both things? Both things.

Thank you. I believe I've heard and smelled enough in order to come to a decision. I'm going to go into my chambers and get into my wetsuit and lie down on my thinking futon. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. You may be seated. Matthew and Mary Kate.

Seems like the judge is favoring one of you over the other, certainly. I do have a few questions. Have you ever had coitus? We have a four-year-old daughter, so yes. And it is your progeny? Yes. From the fruit of your bathing suit mesh-covered loins? Very much so, yes.

And we're sure about this, Mary-Kate? Yes. Would you prefer that he slept in the nude? I'd be fine with that. Why are you averse to sleeping in the nude, or do you sleep in the nude ever? No, not, no. I myself am shamey, as my mother used to call it, and I try to never be nude.

Yeah, and I feel the bathing suit speaks to a certain resourcefulness. It has, to me, the same pieces that an undergarment of my choice and outer shorts would have. They just happen to be stitched together. No, no, no. See, here's the other thing, and I wish I could have told the judge this. You saw, okay, these have little built-in undies. Oh, yes. I usually cut them out.

He wears underwear with them. I believe the judge needs to re-enter That is not 100% true Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom You may be seated I hope you heard that last piece of evidence Judge John Hodgson

That at times He wears the bathing suit With underwear underneath What kind of underwear? What style? Briefs, boxers, broxers Briefs Briefs

He's so embarrassed right now Briefs, boxers, broxers? Briefs. Breaks? Briefs? He's so embarrassed right now. I wonder why... I regret that I did not know that information and did not seek it out before I went into my chambers. Not that it would have changed my decision, but it only would have increased my disgust. It's not every time. And it would have increased my growing conviction that there is something wrong with Matthew.

Matthew and Mary-Kate, the time that you spend in your bed is the most intimate time in your marriage, even if you are simply sleeping together. It is, in the opinion of this court, that married couples would probably do better if they had separate villas across a reflecting pool and they would visit each other from time to time. Because sleep is essentially a selfish act of reconnecting with yourself in an unconscious state and it is also, it is not something you can truly share with another human and the only thing that you

truly share when you are sleeping with another human is snores and farts. Dutch oven. human is snores and farts. Dutch oven. But as it is, as it is custom in our culture to share a bed, and as it is the case that an editor for a foodie magazine and a high school English teacher probably cannot afford dual villas. And you, like most couples, must determine the most comfortable way to sleep together, and you have to be considerate of the other person's comfort level. Matthew, you are a person without any distinction, discernment of your waking life and your sleeping life. As far as you are concerned,

you may be up on the roof watching the stars at one moment and then falling asleep in your work clothes the next. You are like a five-year-old child. There is something beautiful and naive in your inability to discern the difference between sleeping in bedclothes

and sleeping in street clothes. In some ways, I admire you because I am someone who feels very, very uncomfortable if I am not wearing clean clothes to bed, in part because there is the literal garbage that you are tracking into your bed when you are wearing non-bed clothes, but also there is simply, my brain cannot process the fact that I might be wearing running shorts in bed. I will not be able to sleep properly as a result of that because I will know that what I'm doing is profoundly wrong on some level. There is a great comfort that is given to you personally when you make the transition from daytime to nighttime and you exhibit that transition within the means of your finances by wearing some kind of bed clothes, whether that is classic pajamas or non-classic pajamas

or simply some light cotton shorts that you have just for sleeping or even a dedicated sleep swimsuit. You like what you like, and if you were alone in the world, and if you're not careful, you may be, you can wear whatever you want to bed all the time. But once you start sharing that bed with another person, I urge you for your own sake to consider acquiring and using some proper sleep clothes of your liking, but I also urge you to consider what it would be like for a spouse to cuddle up to her husband and feel a swimsuit and briefs.

What you are advertising to your spouse. What you are advertising to your spouse... What you are offering your spouse is not only, and what she has already established, is an unpleasant physical sensation, which you should take seriously, but you are also advertising that you don't know the difference between clothes. And the fact that you are adding briefs to a swimsuit

means that you know somewhere deep inside you're making a mistake you're trying to correct. It's like an underwear turducken. Yeah. Yeah. It is very rarely that I come down so strongly on one side of an argument over another, especially when I have the chance

to put someone from New Jersey in their place. Everything is legal in New Jersey. Ha! But in this case, I order you both to take a ride this weekend to Sam's in Brattleboro, Vermont. Get some of that free popcorn with the chemicals on it that we're going to kill you. And you just pick out a couple of non-swimsuits free popcorn with the chemicals on it that we're going to kill you. And you just pick out a couple of non-swimsuits,

but like light cotton sweatshorts that you can wear to bed. You only need like two or three of them at best. And use those and a clean t-shirt at night. And you will make that change from day to night in your bedroom alone. And you'll, because your wife is watching Netflix, and you will think to yourself, I am transitioning into the evening time now. And maybe if I do this enough, my wife will actually come to bed with me at the same time. And Mary-Kate, turn off the Netflix, dude. Come on.

I'm working. I'm not Netflixing that late at night. Oh, you're working? Yes, I'm working. Oh, I apologize. No. Oh, no. It's okay.

I support anyone who has to support an English high school teacher. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits. Are you exiting? No, but you can rise. All right.

You can rise anyway. Thank you very much, you guys. Thank you to Matthew and Mary Kate. Matthew and Mary Kate, ladies and gentlemen. You may be seated. And thank you to Fifi for naming this case. Jason Fifi for naming this case. Matthew and Mary Kate, once again, thanks for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

And thank you, Summertime Funtime Guest Bailiff Monty Belmonte. If you don't know, if you haven't heard the show before, and if you don't live here, Monty is the morning DJ at WRSI The River, 93.9 here in Northampton. And a resident of Turner's Falls, Massachusetts. Yes. And the

president of the board of directors. Yes. Much to my dismay. Here at the wonderful Shea Theater. Monty, it's been some time. Much to your dismay. Well, you know, it goes right to my dismay. Here at the wonderful Shea Theater. Monty, it's been some time. Much to your dismay. Well, you know, it goes right to my head. I've always said it, Monty. Your dismay is my delight. Well, I saw that Mayor Marty Walsh of Boston

declared tomorrow, Sunday, September 18th? Is that the right date? Sunday, September 18th. Yes. Judge John Hodgman Day. That's right. And the Boston Globe said, names it after a podcast that no one's ever heard of.

The Boston Globe had a headline today, Mayor Walsh proclaims day of honor for a podcast no one has heard of. But you have all heard of it. So I just thought, since we have no mayoral system in the town of Montague or the village of Turner's Falls, that I, as the president of the board of the Shea Theater, would declare Saturday, September 17th, Judge John Hodgman Day in Turner's Falls, Massachusetts.

I will accept only if you rewrite the proclamation that it be Judge John Hodgman podcast day, for indeed there is Judge John Hodgman, but the podcast includes such wonderful co-hosts as my bailiff Jesse Thorne and my fun time summertime bailiff Monty Belmonte. Now, Monty, it's been a while since I've been in the Shea. There's been some beautiful renovations here. The place looks fantastic, and people should come back. You have all kinds of programming. Yes.

Where can people who are listening to the podcast, thinking about a trip to Western Massachusetts, go to find out what's happening at the Shea and maybe make a donation to continue the renovations? SheaTheatre.org. Go there and check it out. That's Shea, S-H-E-A, I should say. Right, exactly.

S-H-E-A. Like the butter. S-H-E-A Theater, E-R or R-E? E-R. E-R.org. O-R-G? Yes. Good.

Orgy. O-R-G. Now, Monty, you also, you spin platters on the radio station, right? You play some songs. Stacks and stacks of wax and wax, as they say. And through your radio programming, I came to know an amazing local act called the Sweetback Sisters. And we don't have all of them here tonight,

but maybe you can tell us who our musical guest is tonight. Two of whom I've just met. But I will let the lead singer tonight of the Sweetback Sisters introduce them. It's Zara Bodhi and her Sweetback Sisters for the evening. Zara Bodhi, ladies and gentlemen. Hi, everybody. So the Sweetback Sisters were all in Brattleboro, Vermont,

just last weekend, because we just finished recording a brand new record and um and then they were all dispersed and um but you don't say no to john hodgman you know so you pick up a couple of swell looking guys such as mike roberts and jeff murphy guys such as Mike Roberts and Jeff Murphy and then Stephan Amidon but we'll still do some sweet back sister tunes this is one I got from Marty Robbins it's called Don't Worry About Me.

One, two, three, four. Don't worry about me. It's all over now though i may be blue i'll manage somehow love can't be explained explained Can't be controlled One day it's warm

And next day it's cold Don't pity me Cause I'm feeling blue Don't be ashamed, it might have been you Oh, love, kiss me one time then go Love, I'll understand Don't worry about me guitar solo Sweet, sweet, sweet love

I want you to be As happy as I When you love me I'll never forget you, your sweet memory. It's all over now. Don't worry about me. Don't worry about me When one heart tells One heart goodbye

One heart is free And one heart will cry Oh, sweet, sweet baby, sweet baby, sweet It's all right Don't worry about me Thank you. Zara Bodie and the band I'm going to be calling The Hanging Judges. Thank you very much, Zara. We'll hear more from you in a little bit.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs.

They're made-in, made-in. The Rohan duck. Made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made-in, made-in.

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app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney,

is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Remember, no running in the halls.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. And guess who's back, ladies and gentlemen? My one, my own, Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Back, ladies and gentlemen. What a joy to be here it is. My goiter has been addressed. Now, when George Clooney... Yes. Acting legend George Clooney. Sure. Of course, perhaps the most handsome man in the world. Not merely a legend.

He's a real person who exists. Yeah. Yeah. I know him as George. Sure. When George told me to go see his guy... Right....in Western Massachusetts... Sure....he and I were talking goiters. Sure. Dr George told me to go see his guy in Western Massachusetts, he and I were talking goiters. Sure. Dr. Buckland Ashfield. Dr. Buckland Ashfield Athol.

When George Clooney said that his guy was going to be in western Massachusetts and could Lansden suck my boil. Sure. I did not expect when he, I thought maybe a family doctor, something like that. Sure. It turned out to be his. Old time country doctor. It turned out to be his lifelong best friend, hang dog actor Richard Kind. No, really?

Yeah, that's true. Wow, Richard Kind, Lansden sucked your boil. Yeah, star of Red Oaks on Netflix. That's right. Also featuring Judge John Hodgman as Travis, the cable access television show manager. Watch for it this November, Red Oaks, I'm not lying. Now, we had our friend, bailiff, summertime, fun time guest, bailiff, Monty Belmonte, the words I can never say.

We also have other... You probably shouldn't have named him that long string of rhyming words. Guess what? You might as well have just named him Unique New York. Yeah. Red leather, yellow leather, Monty Belmonte. He beats his fists against the post and still insists he sees the ghost, Monty Belmonte. He beats his fists against the post and still insists he sees the ghost, Monty Belmonte.

We can do acting warm-ups all day. Who wants to play zip, zap, zop? But we have many other friends here in western Massachusetts who have names and titles that are much easier to pronounce, including our resident lexicographer and grammarian and all-around wonderful word presence, Ms. Emily Brewster, who is in the wings and going to join us now. Now, she'll join us. Ladies and gentlemen, Emily Brewster. Yes. Emily Brewster.

Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, if you listen to the podcast or even if you don't, you may know that your neighbor, Emily Brewster, is a lexicographer who works at the

Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a dictionary that I still believe is a dictionary even though it defines a hot dog as a sandwich. It's all right. It's all right. It's true.

I personally prefer Microsoft and Carta because it has video clips. Emily, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. What? Aside from being professionally insulted. Look, get some multimedia

content. Get a three second clip of Ted Williams and we'll talk. Go to merriam-webster.com I'm sorry, ma'am, I only use compact disc read-only memories. Emily, I don't want to fight over the fact that a hot dog is clearly not a sandwich. Only use compact disc read-only memories.

Emily, I don't want to fight over the fact that a hot dog is clearly not a sandwich. You definitely want to fight over that. Your dictionary made a grievous error. But, you know, English is a living language. And in time, I'm sure you guys will come to your senses. But in the meantime... Or end up dead. Wow. In the meantime, Emily end up dead. Wow. In the meantime, Emily, what has been going on in your life,

the life of a lexicographer? Actually, I've been on maternity leave, so... Wow. Is it the kind of maternity leave where you had a baby? Yes, it's exactly that kind. Whoa, double congratulations then. Thank you. Thanks. A human baby? Yes, it's exactly that kind. Whoa, double congratulations then. Thank you. Thanks.

Yeah. A human baby? I have done no lexicographical work in eight weeks, so I'm a little rusty. Are you ready for this thing? I hope so. Yeah. What style of baby do you have? XX chromosome. Okay, good. Yeah. No gender assigned at birth, I trust? No. Right, good. It's a small kind, very small. That's great, congratulations. Thank you, thanks. And you live here in Turner's, is that right? I live in Greenfield. In Greenfield, oh. I hear it's a shithole.

The definition of shithole does not cover Greenfield, most of the time. The definition of shithole does not cover Greenfield. Okay. But you have been doing some lexicography recently. You have done some work for the dictionary. What's the new stuff that we need to know about the dictionary? Oh, well, a term I worked on relatively recently was hot mess, which was a good term. That's in the dictionary now? Yes.

And is it newly in the dictionary, or has it always been there and I just missed it? It is newly in the dictionary because the oldest meaning of hot mess was actually a dish of hot, soft food. And like the mess in that case is the mess from mess hall. Right. Right. Why do they name that hall such a terrible word? Yeah, that's a good question.

But that's just an old meaning of the word mess is like a dish of soft pulpy food. Oh, okay. Yeah. At least before people had teeth. Right. Yes. Long before people had teeth. They were like my baby who has no teeth.

But the modern sense of hot mess is much newer. But in doing my research and defining the term, I found out that it was not as new as I had thought. So hot mess, in my estimation after researching it, really kind of came on the scene the last, or started being used a lot in the last 10 or so years. But when I was looking into evidence of the word hot mess in use, I found an example from 1899 of the modern use. There was a guy writing an article

in a machinist's journal in 1899 talking about how the public was not supporting a strike that machinists were on because they believed everything in the newspaper. And he wrote, Verily I say unto you, if the newspaper says that the sky is painted with green chalk, that is what goes.

There's the, Verily I say unto you, the public is a hot mess. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I have one alternate definition for hot mess. Okay. A dictionary doesn't know what a hot dog is.

Are we really going to argue this? No, no, no. Because I can. I can do it. I can do it. I'm through arguing. I'm all done. Earliest evidence of the word hot dog in use often refers to it as a hot dog sandwich.

I'll just say that. That's true. Further evidence that English is a living language. And that people in the past were dumb and confused. They also made eight-year-olds work in factories. That's right.

And they fed them hot mess every night for dinner. They had no teeth. Maybe. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad you're here because we have a segment that we only do at the live shows called Swift Justice. And that's where we only come to these towns every now and then. We can't hear all of the cases in full depth that we might want to, but we can't deny

these small provincial outposts justice. They're waiting for us to come here and let themselves be heard. Emily, the people are hungry for justice. That's exactly right. I know they are. I know they are. They want a hot mess of justice shoved into their toothless maws. I'm setting a timer for 10 minutes. We're going to hear as many cases as we can.

We have some litigants standing by. There may be some lexicographical issues that come up, and I hope you will feel free to weigh in on those or anything. If you ever sense injustice, please speak up. That is one of the watchwords of this podcast. And one of the watchwords of the lexicographical profession. That's right. Lexicographical profession.

We're doing justice to words by making them long. Here we go. First dispute, go. Come, come forth, litigants. Quickly as possible. Come forth and seek justice. We have justice to dispute. What is your name?

Sir. I'm Tom. Hi, Tom. Grace. Grace. And it is Tom versus Grace. What is your dispute? Grace, you. Grace. Grace. And it is Tom versus Grace. What is your dispute? Grace, you talk first.

One night, he asked me for the green blanket. And this is what he wanted. Bailiff Jesse, would you display the blanket to the audience? Those of you listening at home, let the record show that Grace has put forward a blanket that is of disputed color. the blanket to the audience. Those of you listening at home, let the record show that Grace has put forward a blanket that is of disputed color. The gasp that you heard from the audience

was of obvious and utter disbelief that this blanket could be described as green. Have we something in the room green to compare it to? A green t-shirt? A fern? A frog? Is there anyone wearing green? Mic cable. My microphone cord is

green, but I want a human being wearing green, please. Come, me. Stop yelling. Start walking. Hurry. Time is running out Don't hurt yourself Let the record show Let the record show that we've been joined on stage By a local tween

He's not local. Good one, tween. If you can, tiptoe and speak into that microphone. What is your name, young man? Jonah Murphy. Very good. Thanks for giving me your first and last name. He is wearing a backwards baseball cap,

a green Under Armour buzz-marketed T-shirt, and what looked to me like a pair of sleeping swimming trunks. Tom, why do you describe that blanket as green? I mean, I literally never considered that that would not be seen as green. I will point out in my defense that it does look different than artificial versus natural light. out in my defense that it does look different than artificial versus natural light. Quiet, mom!

Evidently, the waves of unkind natural laughter are not on my side here, but... Tom, take that blanket. Child, step forward. Tom, step forward. Wrap that blanket around that child. Tuck him in, Tom. It's mostly a dog's blanket, Tom said. Well, now it's a dog's and tween's blanket. Yeah. Mr. Murphy, do you have any allergies to dog dander? Nope. Nope, he's have any allergies to dog dander? Nope.

Nope, he's fine. All right, good. Tom, now that you have seen Mr. Murphy wearing your dog blanket as a toga, what color would you describe that blanket as? I recognize that it is not the greenest of greens, but I still maintain... The blanket is obviously white and gold. White and gold. is not the greenest of greens, but I still maintain.

The blanket is obviously white and gold. White and gold. Blue and black. I just want to note that I broke my gavel. I was so mad about your obstinance. Sir, that is a pale blue blanket, or was before your German shepherd peed on it a thousand times. It is in no way green.

You may never refer to it as such again. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Next case, please. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. Next case, please. Step right up to the microphones. Sir, what is your name?

Chris. Madam, your name? Liz. I like your t-shirt, Liz. Thank you very much. Congratulations. Let the record show that Liz is wearing a t-shirt representing the podcast One Bad Mother, available on the Maximum Fun Network.

What is your dispute? The dispute is I like to have the bed made before getting into bed and whether my husband is in it or not, I pull the covers up. Wait a minute. Exactly. When you're getting into bed of an evening,

Yes. First, you have not made the bed after you got up in the morning? No. Okay. And clearly, clearly your marriage is aligned on that point. Yes. The bed is left unmade all day? Yes.

But you would like to make the bed before getting into it? Correct. Or technically make the bed while getting into it, right? Correct. Well, you're not. After, after. I'm in. Only after he's in.

So, Chris, you are in bed. Yes, with our son. With your son. Who my wife chose to co-sleep with. That's fine. How old is your son? Three now. Oh, okay, good.

His birthday was yesterday, and I ditched him to be here. Oh. So, yes, she is a one bad mother. Liz, I hate to break it to you, but today is not yesterday. Your sense of time is very confused. That is correct, but I was on a plane yesterday at 5 o'clock in the morning. Oh, well, thank you very much for joining us, and I'm sorry. And to be fair, three-year-olds don't know what day it is.

This is true. That was the consensus of your wife's Facebook page, which she consulted before we could book this trip. This is correct. I'm not making this decision. Your pandering doesn't help. I'm not pandering to you. She is. I am. Chris, let me get this straight because we have

very limited time. What time do you go to bed? About nine. About nine. What time do you go to bed, Liz? He's lying. We go to bed. We start the bedtime routine at 7, 7 30. Well, yeah, but the point is that you're trying to make the bed while your husband is lying in it. Well, the only thing is he won't make his side of the bed before getting in. So the covers are down at the bottom of the bed or slightly to one side or the other. So you're annoyed because you have to tuck in your husband every night no she does not tuck me in she makes me get out of the bed

hold on she makes me get out of bed so we can then line up the sheets side to side front to back perfectly to the millimeter right before then we can get back in bed to mess them up as her pictures were shown what you brought evidence she did where is the evidence it's on my phone but it's going to take a long time to get to it yeah no it's too bad okay uh why don't you make the bed in the morning when you get up um because i'm lazy okay uh make the bed in the morning when you get up from now on Okay. Make the bed in the morning when you get up from now on. Judge Ed Haas rules. That is all. Next case, please. Two minutes and 18 seconds for justice.

Madam, your name? My name is Amy. Amy, sir, your name? Brayden. Say that again? My name is Brayden. Brayden. Very good. And what is the nature of your dispute, Amy? The nature of our dispute is that he insists that dirty clothes go in a hamper and clean clothes go in a laundry basket. I say that they're interchangeable terms. It really doesn't matter.

Man, I wish we had a lexicographer here right now. Monty, do you also do lexicography? Oh, wait, I'm sorry, Emily, hello. So, Braden, you dispute this? I think a hamper is strictly for dirty clothes. And a laundry basket? Is for transportation of dirty clothes to the washer. Right, okay. And, whoa. The mob wishes to speak.

Did you guys grow up in different parts of the world? Nope, we grew up in Western Mass. Both of you in Western Massachusetts, so this cannot be ascribed to a regionalism. No. Oh, okay. Neighboring towns, in fact. What's that?

Neighboring towns. Neighboring towns? Which towns? He grew up in Southwick. I grew up in Westfield. Oh, well, Southwick and what? Westfield. Westfield?

They see everything different. It's true. It's like hampers and laundry baskets between those two towns. Emily, of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, do you distinguish a difference between hamper and laundry basket, either by dictionary definition or just gut? Well, the word hamper historically referred to any kind of, any basket that would, typically with a lid that is used to carry anything.

It can be laundry, it can be food. You could have a picnic hamper. And it wasn't until the 20th century that hamper came to be used more specifically, more narrowly, to refer to something that is used to hold dirty laundry. So Amy's interpretation is more traditional, a more traditional use of the word, and Brayden's is the narrower, more modern use of the word.

More traditional and broad definition in that a hamper could carry anything. That's right. Dirty laundry, clean laundry, or delicious sandwiches. Yes. And originally, the word referred to something that carried goblets. Goblets? Goblets. You carry some goblets in your...

We do not carry any goblets. Until you start carrying goblets in your hamper. Hampers for dirty clothes, laundry basket for transportation of clean clothes. That is all. Thank you. Listen up, Midwestern Max Funsters. Do not miss out on the inaugural Chicago Podcast Festival, November 17th through 19th. Catch the hilarious ladies of Lady to Lady and the witty and incisive Ineke and James from Minority Corner. Plus, Bullseye with Jesse Thorne will feature interviews with some pretty heavy hitters like Andre Royo and Dwayne Kennedy.

Don't snooze. Don't lose. Tickets are available right now. Visit MaximumFun.org and buy them. to be ready. Let's bring in our next set of litigants. Please welcome Jason and Cecily. I'm sorry, apparently Cecily and Perry Mason. Is it Cecily or Cecily? Cecily. Cecily. Gee whiz. Okay. Tonight's case, Amphibious Corpus. Jason brings the case against his girlfriend, Cecily. They can't decide if a tadpole is a baby frog. Jason says no. Cecily says yes.

Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. For the entirety of my young and skittish life, I had fixated upon my fear as if it were the most interesting thing about me, when actually it was the most mundane. My fear wasn't some kind of rare artisanal object. It was a mass-produced item, and that's the thing I wanted to build my entire identity around? The most boring instinct I possessed? The panic reflex of my dumbest inner tadpole?

No. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in. You may be seated. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? Yes. Of course.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he is in fact a baby frog? Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Cecilie and Jason, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, and I hope neither of you looked at my script

while I was reading that. Can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Let's see. Jason, who brings this case to me? I brought reading that. Can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Let's see. Jason, who brings this case to me? I brought this case. Very good. So Cecily, you are here against your will. You may choose to guess first or make Jason guess first.

Jason should guess first. All right. Classic maneuver. Jason? I'm going to have to go with the Jim Henson autobiography. Jim Henson autobiography because this is a frog-based dispute. Yes. All right. That's a good guess.

We'll put that into the guest book. Yep. What about you, Cecily? What is your guess? I'm going to guess a 1905 wilderness amphibian book. 1905 wilderness amphibian book. Does this book have a title? That is both weirdly specific and weirdly vague.

Frogs at Birth. Frogs at Birth. Frogs at Birth. Is it an actual book, or are you just making up a book? I'm making it up. Well done. And let the record show that Cecily is wearing a T-shirt with a skeleton of a frog on it. And that her husband, husband?

No. No, excuse me, friend? Girlfriend. Her boyfriend. Her girlfriend, Jason, is wearing a wonderful suit with a tie that has cricket players on it. Yes. That's right.

No frog-based stuff at all. And also some sweet saddle shoes. Wouldn't you say there, Jesse? I think those are spectators, aren't they? Spectators? They are. Very nice. That's a spectator, Judge Hodgman. Two-tones, okay. All right, I stand corrected. Well, all guesses are wrong.

That was actually a quote from friend of the court and occasional expert witness and Max Fund podcaster Elizabeth Gilbert from her book, Big Magic, Creative Living Beyond Fear. Judge Hodgman, is that book available in paperback at all? No, sorry. No, not at all. Not in the least. She refused to release it in paperback. Got it. And all existing copies of the hardcover have been destroyed, so no one can ever buy them again. Otherwise, I would be plugging something, and I would never do that.

It's just that I love that book and her podcast Magic Lessons, so I would love to get the book, because the paperback's more convenient to carry around and more affordable. Well, I'll see if we can get it back into print. Okay. In any case, welcome to the court.

Now, Jason. Yes. What is at issue here? The issue is whether or not a tadpole is a baby frog. Whether or not a tadpole is a baby frog. You contend, yay or nay nay i believe there's two ways to look at it oh boy here we go not me i i barely believe there's half a way to look at it

but i am looking forward to your i I'm sure, labored explanation. You can look at it scientifically. Sure. But the term baby is neither helpful nor instructive from looking at this from a scientific point of view. Or you can look at it from the perspective of how we apply the word baby in this situation in sort of colloquial speech. Right.

the word baby in this situation in sort of colloquial speech. Right. You know, is it kitten is to cat as to tadpole is to frog? Right. Or is it cocoon is to, or caterpillar is to butterfly as tadpole is to frog? That sort of thing. And you maintain that a tadpole is going to turn into a kitten? I don't understand what... No, I contend

that a tadpole is a larval stage on the way to becoming an adult frog, but it is not... A few would disagree with you on that. It's not looking well. It is therefore a baby frog? No, I believe it is something entirely

different than a baby frog. I see. Okay. You think it's an adult tadpole. Able to watch tadpole pornographies, smoke tadpole cigarettes, and so forth. You have to go to a specialty store. Yeah, it's called Reddit. to a specialty store.

Cecilie... Yeah, it's called Reddit. Cecilie, who is wearing a T-shirt that has a frog skeleton on it, why, first of all, you are obviously concerned with the frog in all of its stages of life. Why do you contend

that a tadpole is a baby frog and why are you bothered that your girlfriend disagrees with you? Well, I think a tadpole is as close to a baby frog as you're going to get. It has the same brain from tadpole. It is the same being. It's the same being from tadpole into frog. So when it makes the transition to having the legs and being a frog,

it's already had a life experience. So it's not in the baby phase when it goes to tadpole to full frog. It's already had that. And the baby phase is... The tadpole phase. Yeah, I'm not sure these things have distinct phases like that.

Why does it matter in your relationship? It came up in a car debate. Where were you driving? To a soccer game. Maybe I'll understand this better if I understand a little bit more about you guys. Cecily, what do you do in life? I am a painter, but mostly I am a product line manager for a cartographic data set. For a cartographic data set?

I manage cartographers. Oh, you take care of the cartographers. Make more maps faster. Exactly. Better on the coastlines. Yes. Make these rivers blue, damn it. Blue. No rivers. No rivers. Jason, what do you do in life? I am an adjunct law professor and attorney. Ah, I see. So you're professionally argumentative. And personally argumentative. And how long have you guys been together?

Four or five years. And when you were just driving along one day to a soccer game, which I guess is something that people do, were either of you playing in the soccer game? No. Were you in Europe at the time? I'm sorry. No, it's fine.

You said you were driving to a soccer game. So John sort of suggested, apparently people drive to soccer games, right? So I was like, I have a good tag for that. So I asked, were you in Europe at the time? Which suggested that, well, sure, in Europe, people like soccer. No, football.

But this is America. God's America. I respect the flag. You were driving to a soccer game in your Citroën De Cheval. driving to a soccer game in your citroen de cheval because to wearing your spectator shoes as spectators of soccer because you enjoy boring things yes we were driving a couple of our children to us oh they were going to play in the soccer game and you're like oh our kids haven't heard uh mommy and daddy fight for a while. What's the smallest thing we could fight over?

Literally and physically. Tadpole is a small thing. How did it come up in conversation? You were just there ceaselessly going, you know what's a baby frog? A tadpole. Maybe. I really don't remember. You don't remember? No.

But the fight lasted for a while? It carried on to the dinner table. And were your children crying by the end, please? They were taking sides. How does it break down among your children? There's been some disagreement as to their recollection of whose sides they originally took. What do you remember, Jason? I remember that they all had originally taken my side.

Two of them are on my side now. How many children do you have now? Three combined. And have they lost their vestigial tails yet? Yes. Have they gone through their cocoon and come out as humans? Yes, they are here with us tonight, actually. Emily, you are a lexicographer, not an expert on animal morphology, but I would be curious to know how the dictionary defines baby.

Is that a scientific term? It's not a non-scientific term. But a tadpole is not defined as a baby frog. How is it defined? It's defined as the larval stage of an amphibian blah blah blah, blah. Right. Frog. Right. Yeah, right. Yes. So it would be amazing if it was defined as the larval stage of an amphibian something else.

Right. Like they're just like, you know, we've been throwing a lot of fastballs. Let's hit them with the curve. sitting with the curve. There is a dictionary written for children ages five to seven that I happen to look in that does define a tadpole as a baby frog.

Oh. What does the adult dictionary say? It very distinctly says it is not a baby frog. It's a larval stage. And you, in your lexicographer's gut, does larval stage connote a baby frog. It's a larval stage. And you, in your lexicographer's gut, does larval stage connote a baby?

No. I mean, it's distinct from... When metamorphosis is involved as a process, this is not the same thing as a baby in the way that a baby kitten, that a kitten is a baby cat. Actually, they're distinct. So a tadpole has gills, and a frog, an adult frog,

a frog, any frog, has lungs. What animal, ma'am? Frog. And because of that rather distinct morphological difference, in your opinion, not a baby make. Right. I did not say that very well, but you understand?

I understand, yes. You're just trying to save time. Getting to the point where I have to talk like Bizarro. Frog grown up. Frog not tadpole. Tadpole not baby. Baby is baby, no? Baby not larval.

Baby small thing of thing. Smaller version of thing is baby. Not different gross thing with tail and gills. Changed through metamorphosis. Must be different than baby, no? We say baby is baby, obvs. That's basically the dictionary's position. Baby small human grow into large baby, no?

Yes. Yes. Bizarro say yes, which means no. So you've heard my argument, Jason. Yes. Yes. And you agree with me. Heard well.

Right. But Cecilie, you appreciate that this thing is a completely different form and does not follow the same growth pattern that mammals and other things to which we ascribe babydum to. And frankly, no one cares about this tadpole. They're gross. Why is what Emily said, despite all of the dictionary's evidence,

not meaningful to you? It's meaningful. I think it's the most baby-like form that the frog is in. Once it's a froglet, it's already had experience. It's not a baby once it's a... Maybe there is no baby frog. But the tadpole froglet is a technical term. Froglet is a legitimate term.

It's a technical term. It means half frog, half toilet. I noticed you're holding a piece of paper in your hand. Yes. What is that piece of paper in your hand. Yes. What is that piece of paper, if I may ask? This is the court case that Jason submitted in case we needed to really... In case you needed to prove your identity?

In case we needed to really go through the specifics of what he said. Please let me, please... Let the record show. Evidence A. An email. And... Please let the record show evidence A, an email, and let the record show that Jason has produced a book and a leather binder. Jason is now the equivalent of one of those television personal injury lawyers whose main job is just saying stuff in front of books.

You clearly are prepared to make a presentation, sir. You have the floor. There are many distinct stages of the frog life cycle. It starts off with tadpole, moves on to tadpole with legs, then becomes a froglet, which suggests that it is a lesser frog, but yet beyond the tadpole larval stage. In fact, it's sort of a greater frog because it both does frog things and toilet things. Yes, yes. And then eventually becomes a frog. Can I use any of those visual aids? Why did you even bring that book into my courtroom? Well, I feel like showing you the 48 separate... You know what

Checkout says, you don't have a book about tadpoles on the mantelpiece if you don't shoot it off by the second act. Well, given it's a podcast, I figured that showing the 48 separate and distinct stages of frog development might not be... And yet you brought them, so now it's on you. I'm happy to share... Let me see the 48 stages of development. Let the record show that Jason has brought

a coffee table book that's called Tadpoles. If ever there was a case for interlibrary loan, it's this. Purchased, there's a book plate in here purchased by the Library of Dartmouth College. You steal this book, sir? It was loaned to me by a Dartmouth librarian. I see. Right, right, okay, here we go. It's from their medical school library, actually.

Fertilization, gray crescent, two-cell, four-cell, eight-cell, 16-cell, 32-cell, mid-cleavage, late-cleavage, dorsal lip, yolk plug, late gastrula, neural plate, neural folds, elongation, rotation, neural tube, gill plates, tail bud, adhesive gland, muscular responsal, factory pits, heartbeat, gill buds, g, neural folds, elongation, rotation, neural tube, gill plates, tail bud, adhesive gland, muscular response, olfactory pits, heartbeat, gill buds, gill circulation, tail elongation, cornea,

transplant, mouth opens, tail fins, transparent fins, circulation, foot paddle, indentation, four to five, indentation, three to four, indentation, two to three, indentation, one to two. I've been everywhere, man. Vent tube present, forelimbs visible, mouth parts atrophy. Mouth parts atrophy, vent tube gone.

Forelimbs emerge, mouth between nostril and eyes, tail atrophies. Toy boat, toy boat, toy boat. Mouth beneath eye, tail greatly reduced, mouth posterior to eye, tail stub, tail resorbed, metamorphosis complete Jason, is it just a coincidence that your fraternity nickname was tail stub? it's not I didn't see baby anywhere in there, Cecily well, it's the most baby-like form

you are a painter, he is an attorney. Is it fair to say that you take a more artistic approach to your understanding of the relative babydom of frogs versus the more hardcore, scientific, I'm stealing a book from the library approach that Jay's into? Yes. Does this prove to be an issue

in other parts of your partnership? I wouldn't say it's an issue. Like, do you have these kinds of arguments? Would you say it's part of the fun? Yeah, yeah, it's the fun. Do you have these sorts of arguments all the time? Are incredibly small-bore arguments without stakes?

Yes. What's another one that you have had that is memorable to you? I can't really think of any. I can't recall one either. No. We just like the banter of back and forth and sometimes they grow and develop

into these grandiose ideas. So why would you have me rob you guys of the delight of the banter? We don't need to talk about the frogs anymore. This one needs to be settled. Oh, we don't need to talk about the frogs anymore. This one needs to be settled. What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?

I would like her to prepare me a dinner of frog legs. What? They're grown-ups. They had a full life. He's not asking for baby frogs. And if I find in your favor, Cecily, you have to fry up some tadpoles and make them eat them? No, I want to be known as the amphibian expert in the house. You want to be known as the amphibian expert in the house?

Yes. You don't have a book full of charts of metamorphosis. She's got a skeleton T-shirt. Well, neither does he. It's from the library. I have a book about amphibians. What is it? It's just a... Frog and toter friends?

It's field guide to amphibians. Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to make my decision. I'll be back in a moment. I'm going to go and half bury myself in mud and brackish water and contemplate my decision, and I'll be back in a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. You may be seated. Please sit. Jason, did you come here to embarrass your wife? She's not my wife. I'm sorry. But I did not come here to embarrass her at all. She came here quite willingly. But, I mean, you put on the

I'm going to embarrass my, forgive me, girlfriend outfit. Like, I'm really going to take this lady I love down a peg. I'm a licensed attorney in the state of Massachusetts, and I... And that comes with certain responsibilities. One dresses with respect in the courtroom. Cecily, I have a really important

question for you. Did you already own that frog shirt, or did you just go on eBay and type in frog shirt two weeks ago? Not eBay. And maybe a week ago. You just went to frogshirtstore.pizza

and went ahead. How do you feel about your chances, Cecily? Less confident than when I got here. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom Sit down

Me think Me think long Me think long. Me think frogs gross. Me think tadpole gross. Me think baby cute. Me think why different. Me think artists think different? Me think, artists think, baby tadpole, cute. Me think, artists think, make frog more human.

Me think, artists think, not respect difference between human, mammal, baby things, and weird, gross amphibian things. baby things and weird gross amphibian things. Methink describe tadpole as baby, sentimentalizing, anthropomorphizing, word me not say easily. Methink science work hard to describe different stages of weird transformation in gross animal frog. 50 stages read for you from books stolen from library. Me think reduce stages 1 to 35 and call maybe.

Reductive, simplistic, denying the weird strangeness of world. Me think frog no make good pet. Me think small tad, no cute kitten. Me think, Cecilie, go buy frog legs. This sound gaveled. Judge John Hodgman ruled.

That is all. Jason and Cecilie, ladies and gentlemen. Lexicographer Emily Brewster, thank you to the three of them. You know, we've had a lot of fun tonight. We've served a lot of justice. True. But I don't think it's quite time to go home.

No, I think we have... I would love to hear another song from Zara Bodhi and the Hanging Judges. So would I, wouldn't you? Well, why don't we have that happen in about 35 minutes. Everyone take a break, and we'll all come back. No, no, right now! Zara Bodie and the Hanging Judges, a band I just named. applause music music

music music music music music music music music

music music music Well, I went to my boss, I said, boss, I need a raise I've been living on bread, peanut butter for days Well, looked at his shoes and he gave a little laugh, he said Hon, here's what I'm gonna do on your behalf I'm gonna cry and cry, lay right gonna lay right down and die. I'm gonna ball my little hands up. I'm gonna rub my eyes. I'm gonna

run back home. I'm gonna go right into bed. I'm gonna get my little note book and write what you said. I'm gonna cry, cry, cry for you Well, I went to my landlord He's related to my boss

Tried to act all friendly I said, hey there, boss Put my arm around him Said, can't you let me slide Won't you give me one more week Pay the rent on this dime. And his eyes sort of twinkled. He gave a little grin.

He said, here's the position that you put me in. I'm going to cry, cry. I'm going to lay right down and die. I'm going to blow my little hands up. I'm going to rub my eyes. I'm going to run back home. I'm going to call out in bed. didn't fail, get my little notebook in, got what you said, I'm gonna cry, cry, cry for you. Well, my landlord came around with a couple of thugs

They were big tall men with an order from the judge Put my bed on the clerk, they put my clothes on the bed They put a lock on the door and a sign that said You're gonna cry, cry, gonna lay right down and die Gonna fold my little hands, they're gonna rub my eyes Gonna run back home, gonna crawl out in bed Gonna get my little notebook and write what you said I'm gonna cry cry cry for you I'm gonna cry cry gonna lay right down and die gonna fall my little hands are gonna rub my eyes gonna run back home Gonna crawl out in bed

Gonna get my little note from Dad I want you said I'm gonna cry, cry, cry for you I'm gonna cry, cry, cry for you Zara Bodhi, ladies and gentlemen. And the Hanging Judges. Thank you. Thank you to the Zara Bodie Band for playing some great music for us in Turner's Falls. If you're near Northampton, Massachusetts, you can catch Zara with her band, The Sweetback Sisters, at their annual Country Christmas Sing-Along Spectacular at the Academy of Music in Northampton on December 23rd.

The Sweetback Sisters' new album will be out in the spring. For more information, you can find them at thesweetbacksisters.com. Thank you also to our Summertime Funtime Bailiff, Monty Belmonte, grammar expert Emily Brewster, and to all of our litigants in Ternus Falls who shared their arguments with us. There are a bunch of people who helped us put on this show, thanks to the amazing staff at the Shea Theater, Danielle Davis, Matthew Barnhart, and Jennifer Marmer,

our producer who makes the show happen. If you'd like to submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, you can do it at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you want to email us, it's Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. MaximumFun.org.

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