Judge John Hodgman - Live From Vancouver 2019

Episode Date: January 31, 2019

This week's episode was recorded LIVE IN VANCOUVER! We hear the dispute LOVE DRACTUALLY and Swift Justice, with guests Louise Burns and Dave Shumka! Thank you to Andreas Meyer for naming this week's case! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Hello, this is your judge, John Hodgman. This episode of the podcast was recorded live in Vancouver, Canada, at the Rio Theatre. It was the first stop on our recent live justice tour through the Pacific Northwest, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. You'll be hearing all those great evenings later. But for now, let's go direct to the stage at the Rio Theatre for Live Justice. Vancouver, we sent out a call for disputes and you answered. We're thrilled to bring you Live Justice British Columbia style. That means ketchup flavored.

Shall we get into it? Let's bring out our first set of litigants Please welcome Graham and Paige to the stage Tonight's case, Love Draxually Graham files suit against his fiancée, Paige Paige thinks that if she were to become a vampire She could continue living a normal life. Graham thinks he's morally required to kill any vampires he comes across, even if one

of them is his beloved. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference. I hate Draculas. So much. Draculas just suck blood. No one likes them. Get out of here, Draculas. Draculas love to hide and surprise you with their teeth. Honestly, couldn't be worse. Hate them. Don't let Dracula apologists warp your mind.

Dracula's bad. No Dracula's good. Simple as that. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Graham and Paige, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

Absolutely. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he is a known wolfman? I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Werewolves of Vancouver. Graham and Paige, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment

in one of yours favors. Can either of you name the source of the cultural reference that I made as I entered this courtroom page? Why don't you, I mean, you're the one who might be a vampire and I would like to have you on my good side. So why don't you guess first? I think this is something that Jesse said earlier today. Something that Jesse Thorne said earlier today. All right. And that is in the guest book now. Graham, what is your guess?

I'm also going to have to go with something Jesse Thorne said, but perhaps earlier than earlier today. You're like Price's writing her? Yeah, pretty much. Well, unsurprisinglyprisingly both guesses are right Jesse Thorne is a noted Dracula disliker but

to break the tie because I do not accept your one penny over that guess plus one cent can you name the precise day that Jesse Thorne said it on Twitter it was a long Twitter rant.

November 21st, 2018. It would be so exciting if that were true. August 2nd. May 7th. Try again. May? May 7th.

Sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you. Was it 9th? May 9th? Oh, no. Sorry. So close. May 19th 9 9 9 Sorry I'm having trouble hearing you 9 Was it 9th? May 9th? Oh no sorry So close May 19th

2017 So We go on to hear the case John can I clarify something? Please of course I'm not a Dracula disliker

I f***ing hate Draculas Thank you, Jesse. All they do is sneak around and want to surprise you with their teeth. They're no good. They're no good. You wouldn't believe what they do with their teeth. Well, wait a minute. What? More than just biting.

What do they do? Blood sucking. Oh, my word. Why do you think I hate them so much, John? Blood sucking. Oh, my word. Why do you think I hate them so much, John? I would have thought biting was enough. They're allowed to have any job. I've never understood what that means.

Some Dracula's work in movie theaters, just like this one. You're saying there could be a Dracula here right now? Remember when we met Paul earlier? Yeah. Who knows? Well, Jesse, I don't want to alarm you, but this entire case that we will eventually need to hear revolves around the possibility that Paige may be a Dracula. Blech.

Paige, may I presume that you were invited into the theater? That is correct. Alright. Paige, why do you worry about becoming a Dracula? I'm going to say Dracula from now on instead of vampire because it's very specific. This came up because Graham and I love

watching movies. We love watching horror and sci-fi and this was Wait a minute. Are there Dracula movies? I think so, yes. Oh, good to know. All right, good. Why would someone want to watch that? And this was one of the times where we would discuss what happened in the movie and apply it to real life and normally his response is, it's okay, we can handle it, we're a team. And one day I said to him, if I came to you and you realized I was a vampire, what would you do?

And he said to me, looked me in the eyes, we're engaged now. Congratulations. So I said yes after he said this. Okay. He said, you don't date vampires, you kill them. Oh, no. Oh. Now, for those of you listening at home, Graham is a very adorable looking lycanthrope. A very slope-shouldered,

sort of round and cuddly wolfman. What was the precise film that you had been watching that inspired you to think, this could happen to me? Do you remember? I cannot. Can you? I think it was probably one of the Twilight Saga. Ah. First of all, thank you for telling the truth. Unlike certain maybe vampires who might be on the stage. You know what Draculas don't do, Jesse Thorne?

What's that? They don't admit that they watch Twilight. No. That's how sneaky they are't admit that they watch Twilight. No, that's how sneaky they are. It would be weird and embarrassing. Yeah. It would be like if you were Willie Mays and you were always watching Ken Burns baseball. Look,

Graham, obviously you guys love each other very much, but what was it about this possibility that, that, that at least drew your imagination to this awful consequence? I, I just think that you can't trust a Dracula. They are... Objection!

Pandering to the bailiff. Sustained! I mean, but by definition almost, they are seductive. They lie to you. They try to get in your good graces. Right. So the second you learn of one, you have to take care of it. Like, it puts the people around you at risk. It puts you at risk.

It's just... You're saying there can't be a good Dracula. Can't be. You find out, and then, like Elvis Presley said, you TCB. Take care of business. Ste find out, and then, like Elvis Presley said, you TCB, take care of business. Steak business, my friend. Okay. Step back, Jesse Thorne.

It's getting a little intense over there. If I have one job here tonight, it's to keep non-Draculas alive. So, Paige, why do you think this is unreasonable? Do you think if you became a Dracula, if you got turned, you could live a life that is not, or an un-life, as it were, that is not endangering to others? I'm a worrier by nature, and I like to plan ahead.

And this was one of the times that he told me I can't. And I like to believe, and I think I do, that I would hang on to my core values and perhaps we could work it out. Or... Yeah, okay. What are you talking about? The sleep schedules would be different.

That's not the main problem, Paige. I mean... What are you gonna do for blood? I haven't worked out the details. Well, you made a big mistake coming to my courtroom. I really did. Not preparing a case for yourself as a blood drinker. But wait.

I will. This is a bit of a leap, but it occurred to me the other day that if the... Is it a leap or more of a flutter into the sky? It's a leap. All right. If the crew of the Enterprise did not rescue Picard, who did not plan on being taken by the Borg,

until they came, if they had not rescued him... Yeah. Then where would they be now? Borgs are not Draculas. It's a different thing. Two different animals. It's like something consuming you and taking away. It's threatening your personality and your core values.

No, a Borg is a robot man, and a Dracula is a bloodsucker. It's an important distinction. I would agree. All right. Now we're really going down a true rat hole of thought experiment. The fallacy, the false comparison here, the false equivalency, is that Picard had been turned into a Borg, and when they got him back, they un-Borg'd him.

If you get Dracula'd, you're a Dracula for eternity. Are you suggesting that through love, Graham is going to be able to undracula you? Or are you saying he's just got to learn to live with your blood sucking and your night walking? I'm fine with both.

Let's not use that word. Your blood sucking and your sleep schedule. I feel like we could work it out. This is very vague. I like you both, and I don't want to be Dracula'd by you, but I need you to really think about this and make your case. Now, while you're thinking it over,

you brought in some evidence that you wanted to present to the court. I forwarded some evidence and said that if it was relevant, please present it. So I'm hoping that it's relevant. Why would you send it in otherwise? What is it, just like a Sudoku you did or something? What is it, just like a Sudoku you did or something? Look, I'm no lawyer.

All right, let's take a look at the evidence. Okay, so for those listening at home, we have side by side of two very scary photographs. I think of the same thing. It looks like a mounted goat's head with black fur and scary horns. And in one picture, its eyes are glowing, and in the other picture, it's clear that it's mounted on an inverted pentagram.

May I presume that this is over your bed? It's over her side. What is going on in this photo? By the way, Paige, it does seem pretty relevant. Good. Graham, can you explain what this is? This is not a real goat's head. This is a paper mache goat's head that I crafted.

Oh, you're responsible for this. Yeah, I'm not... You're a regular Martha Stewart. responsible for this. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. You're a regular Martha Stewart. It was for a Halloween-adjacent horror movie-themed birthday party. Okay.

That's all I know. I don't know why it's here. So Paige, why are you sending this in except to muddy the waters of this whole conversation? To deceive and hypnotize us until we are within your thrall and then we become your harem. We found out, we were invited to our roommate's birthday party. He is born, I'm outing you Evan,

he is here, October 13th and in 2017 that was Friday the 13th. We had a horror birthday party and he wanted to make some paper mache weird creations and I'm sorry Evan and Aaron yours were horrible and misshapen but Graham's was beautiful look at this it's absolutely gorgeous and we brought it out this year

are you just settling paper mache scores is that why you brought this case you're just paper mache shaming you're paper mache shaming mache scores? Is that why you brought this case? You're just paper mache shaming. You're paper mache shaming your friends. There's nothing to do with the case. This is a total distraction.

Creature of the night! I apologize, Judge. Was there a point you wanted to make other than to mention the fact that your friends have a creepy birthday and don't make crafts good? Graham is thoughtful and creative, and I feel like when he puts himself into something, he can make amazing things.

And I feel like... He's a creator, not a destructor. Yes. Is that your point? Yes. Graham, is it in your nature to destroy the undead? I mean, first of all, wait a minute. Do you guys believe in Dracula?

No. Okay. I don't believe in them, but I am afraid of them. Let me ask you this question. Ghosts, yes or no? Do you believe in them? Same answer. I am afraid of them. You're afraid they might question. Ghosts, yes or no? Do you believe in them? Same answer. I'm afraid of them.

You're afraid they might exist. But I don't believe in them. Okay. Any other paranormal, supernatural stuff that you are... Oh, Graham's raising a ball. I feel like I haven't been able to get a lot in here, but I also don't feel like I'm in a terrible... Yeah, you seem a little shy for a vampire hunter.

The real nature of this dispute, and I do want to make this clear, is that I don't suspect that Paige is currently a vampire. Yeah, let's get to the crux. Does that freak you out, vampire? I don't think that she is currently a vampire. I've been with her in the daylight. I've seen how much garlic she puts in food.

It's very unlikely at this juncture. Right. But, and I also want to make it clear that should I be turned into a vampire, I would expect the same treatment. I feel that vampires just need to be taken care of, as Jesse says. Yeah, would you characterize this papier-mache sculpture that admittedly is a stirring rendition of, I guess, a Satan goat. Would you consider this, in its own way, a form of taking care of business? Myself? Yeah. It needed to be done. You didn't see these other

papier-mâché creations that my roommate had created. There needed to be done. You didn't see these other paper mache creations that my roommate had created. There needed to be something stirring for this party, and it made quite an effect on people as they walked in, and the eyes were glowing. It worked pretty well. Can we go to the next piece of evidence? Now what we see here is a picture of a cat

doing something pretty funny. They're doing like a funny sit. And then over there, there's a cat that's in an Amazon Prime box. Like he just got delivered. What is this in reference to? Anyone? Paige? These are my sweet angels, Mark and Toe Cutter. And this goes to relevance how? I sent this in. I adopted them in 2011. They were the first pets that have been my own as an adult that I am solely responsible for. I love them stupid amounts. Nothing would stop me from feeding them twice a day and changing their litter and vacuuming after I'm done. Wampir

love creatures of the night. Is this to prove that you're human or simply to pander to the bailiff's desire to laugh at funny animals? Definitely a little of column B. Yes. But I feel like they, there's nothing that would prevent me. No transformation, if I'm able-bodied, would prevent me from caring for these small weirdos.

Let me drill down on this a little bit. You're concerned, in this thought experiment, that if you were a vampire, it would be like becoming a Borg, that your personality would be erased and you'd become a creature of murderous intent. That's your worry? Yes. But because you love cats, you're thinking,

maybe not, and I don't deserve to die. Graham, your point of view is, it doesn't matter how much you love your fiance, the moment she starts getting to Draculism, it's your responsibility as a member of the living to quote-unquote take care of it. Is that correct? That is correct.

But what if she retains her basic decent human nature? She just needs to drink blood. But how can I be assured of that? And where is she getting this blood? Yeah, guess what? This is what marriage is all about. No assurances. You're taking a huge leap of faith

that the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with isn't secretly a monster. It's a decision we're all making every day. Should have saved that for the verdict, but there, it's out now. Paige, you have this conversation, I understand you have this conversation

about Dracula's with family members. Doesn't your mom have a point of view on this? She does. She's here tonight. Ah. And she views the transformation as a complete pro and possibly, for her her a retirement plan. Where's Paige's mom?

Hello. What is your retirement plan? Paige is going to be immortal and take care of you? Is that what's going to happen? Well, I'm hoping she's going to bite me and turn me into a vampire because there's a few people that I would really like to get rid of. All right. Graham, you're relying on the goodwill of this woman's child. For those of you in the rear of the Rio Theater

here in Vancouver, start making your way to the exits now. You don't wait. Don't wait for me to repeat what this woman just said because you couldn't hear it. For those of you listening at home, you are safe for now. But Paige's mother, I said to her,

do you want Paige to become immortal and take care of you? She said, no, I want Paige to bite me and turn me into a vampire because there are a few people that I would like to take care of. She has a hit list. So, I can appreciate why Graham is now concerned. I mean, it is a cliche in certain heteronormative marriages

that when men marry women, they're kind of marrying their mothers. And you are afraid that she's going to turn into a vindictive person who wants to turn into a vampire in order to cause harm. Is that correct? I need to stop that from happening at all costs. Yeah. Let me give you some advice before. When are you getting married? It's unclear at this time.

Definitely getting foggier. Alright. Here's the thing. Specificity is the soul of monster hunting. If I were to rule in your favor, Graham, what would you have me rule? That it's just a standing policy amongst the

relationship that if one of us were to be turned into a vampire the other one would take it upon themselves to take care of them you know for the safety of family pets you know all the people TCB lightning bolt Elvis Presley

the whole nine yards and Paige if you are indeed human now what would you have You know, all the people. TCB, Lightning Bolt, Elvis Presley, the whole nine yards. And Paige, if you are indeed human now, what would you have me rule going forward if I were to find in your favor? I actually just want your opinion. It's been an argument for so long. And if you say, I trust you, I trust your judgment. If you say it's a bad idea

and you should slay someone who becomes a vampire and not hesitate, then I'm ready to hear that. Conversely, if you think that he should apply his intelligence and care to the situation to assess and then decide what to happen, I'm okay with that too. Honestly, both ways are okay with me. Can you, you've not been. I'll be honest with you. You've not been very good with your evidence so far. It has been really immaterial.

I mean, almost like an incandescent evil vapor, which vampires can turn into. But please get, I want you to consider giving me some real evidence here. Can you give me evidence?

Something in Graham's nature that convinces you that were you to turn undead and evil that he could bring you back not to humanity but to decency. Is he capable of that?

Is he that kind of guy? I'd say yes. He is a wonderful storyteller, and I think if he found the right thing... So is Bram Stoker, ma'am. Sorry, please go on. He's a wonderful storyteller. He's a writer,

and I feel like if anybody could say something to me to bring me back, to turn it around, to make me remember what's important, it's him. What do you think he would say? You have to feed the cats. I've heard everything I need to

in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my Vancouver chambers now. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Graham, how do you feel about your chances? I don't know. I haven't really got the chance to say much, so... I don't know.

Do you think you're even capable of taking care of a vampire if you needed to? Definitely, yeah. I think about it a lot. Paige, how are you feeling about your chances? I'm mixed. You know what? I have all of the emotions at once. I don't know what I'm feeling right now. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about

all this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage, Judge Judge Hodgman has to say about all this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage Judge John Hodgman. Page and Graham, you may be seated. So, the thing of it is... It's a hard one, Jesse Thorne. Vampires. Yeah, you rule against the Draculas. That's what I say.

I know that that's your point of view, but I have to be impartial. I have to weigh both sides of the completely fictitious non-argument. One thing that I did not get into here was your willingness to take care of the vampire. Yes. And part of the reason is that taking care of a vampire, that euphemism that you're using,

there's no room for euphemism in monster slaying. monster slaying. And if you do any, the smallest amount of research into what it takes to end a vampire, you can't kill it. It's already undead. You know what I mean? That's why I'm not saying killing.

We're talking about wooden stakes. We're talking about burying upside down. I mean, the list goes on and it's quite gruesome. And it's fun in a Halloween-y context, in a horror movie context. But even when in jest, even when hypothetically applied to the person you're going to marry, it gets weird to talk about. A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Now, A little bit.

Yeah, a little bit. Now, between you and me, and everyone here. And everyone listening at home. And everyone listening at home. If it were your future mother-in-law, who got dragged I mean then I think I would have to get together with you and go this is a worldwide

problem she is an open force of evil in this world but even then it would be extremely hard to go through the process. Because, I mean, right now in her human form, she's lovely, feisty, and only a little bloodthirsty. Do you know what I mean? Now, I have not seen all the horror movies you have.

But Draculas are not Borgs. My basic understanding is they retain their personality. I know you want to jump in here in a second. I'm going to give you a chance to. They retain their personality. They just got to drink blood. And over time, because they're immortal and their lives are so different from normal humans,

they start to dissociate from humanity more and more and more and more. Is that not correct, sir? Like Larry King. I mean, like Larry King, though, you have to factor in the idea of, you know, the soul. Are they even still there anymore? Is that even them, or are they just using this personality

as a shell to carry out their blood-sucking ways? Again, a question that pesters every marriage. One of the things that is challenging when you enter into a marriage, even just a regular old human one, is that people do change and for time to time become unrecognizable to you. People do. Fair enough.

Even though Paige comes from a rather insidious bloodline, as shown this very evening. Even though she has used the search for justice as an opportunity to wreak vengeance upon her friends and their poor papier-mâché to cause harm. Even though she refused to even explain what she was going to do to get around the drinking blood problem. Maybe because she doesn't want to admit

toe cutter's going to go first. Ah. She covers her mouth out of shock or to hide fangs. I believe that unlike her mother, she does not want to be a Dracula. And I believe that if she were turned, she would fight it.

And I believe that it is your responsibility as her fiancé and, I hope, eventually husband, that would she turn track, it would be your job to take care of her. Like make her soup. Make her blood soup. You're making this commitment. You have to see the person you love through their worst I mean this is a hypothetical right but I dare say there are situations where people choose to

spend their lives with someone else and they do become unknown to them through illness or mental illness or physical illness or accidents and everything else. You know, devastating stuff can happen. And it is your responsibility as spouse, as life partner, however you want to call it, to be with them and to help them and to take care of them

as long as they live, even unto immortality. And then if a time were to come, and this has gotten pretty grim, but we are talking about Dracula's after all. Yeah, we hate Dracula. And if a time were to come, if a spouse were to become so incapacitated

that they had no quality of life anymore and they could communicate that they felt that way then that responsibility changes obviously. But day one of Draculaism you're getting out the stakes? No, sir. No. That is not your responsibility.

You are not a monster, even though she might be. Retain your humanity. Take care of her. Figure out some blood solution. I mean, I was always willing to give some sort of cursory period to look into if there was some sort of head vampire. That is not what you said! I didn't say anything. No, and that's the other thing. You're too sweet and shy to

be a Van Helsing. You, your job should, Page become a Dracula, and this goes both ways, you know, what if he becomes a Dracula? It's your job, too. It's not a gender role thing. It's just friends and partners. Your job is to protect her from the real Van Helsings, the truly drac-bloodthirsty killers who are out there. Jet shoes, Jesse Thorne! Should Paige become a Dracula she is not your enemy

bailiff Jesse Thorne is coming after your family is that like a service he offers I find in Paige's favor may your love live forever and ever and Paige's favor, may your love live forever and ever, and Paige's mom, I'm on your side.

Please don't come for me in the night. This is the sound of a gap. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Thank you to Andreas Meyer for naming this case. Graham and Paige, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Graham and Paige, ladies you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Graham and Paige, ladies and gentlemen. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen?

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From the 18th until the 27th, visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware dot com. We have a wonderful musical guest from right here in British Columbia, and I think it would be a really wonderful time to hear from her. Jesse, would you give her an introduction, befitting of her stature and talent and skill and wonderfulness? Absolutely. She's fresh off a tour of India. She's a host on CBC's Radio 3.

Her last album, Young Mopes, was long listed for the Polaris Music Prize. Please welcome to the stage Louise Burns. Louise Burns, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. In the night I see All the voices calling, calling for me I still believe

There's a place in the ground where I'll be And so it goes You spend your life spinning out of control Then you know You spend your life chasing after a ghost Summer in the night I was yours, all yours and you were mine It felt so bright

Till we met like stars into the light And so it goes You spend your life spinning out of control Then you know You spend your life chasing after a ghost Oh Who's the madman Who may believe that everything's alright?

Oh, who's the badman who makes believe that everything's just fine In the night I sit All the voices calling, calling for me I still believe There's a place in the ground for you and me And so it goes You spend your life spinning out of control. Then you know. You spend your life chasing after a ghost.

And so it goes. You spend your life spinning out of control. Then you know You spend your life chasing after a ghost Thank you. Home is where I want you to be When I'm worrying about the days, days that are coming though the destiny

is to marry the role you will run and you will roam forever and ever I've got a lot to lose you said and I'm not gonna win this time So you start, you stop running

And it feels like a dream Forever and ever, forever and ever Make it feel like a dream We'll be together Forever and ever Forever and ever Stay Even when you go away And your mind are on a plane I don't mind

And skies Go from golden to black As I watch you running back into the night I've got a lot to lose, you say And I'm not gonna win this time So you stop, you stopped coming And it feels like a dream Forever and ever Forever and ever

Make it feel like a dream We'll be together Forever and ever Forever and ever How many times Do I have to tell you Stop wandering around You won't do any better

And all of these bullets that burn through our trenches, they can hurt us when we're down. Building our own defenses. And even if you try to see what I'm saying, I call the shots. But, babe, you build the fences I hope this is the end Of these heavy heavy times

Cause I need a bit of lightness I need a bit of lightness Hey Hey Hey, hey I need a bit of lightness Hey, hey I need a bit of lightness Thank you. A bit of lightness. Louise Burns, ladies and gentlemen.

You can find her online at louise-burns.com. Keep an eye out for that new album coming out later this year. Thanks to Louise for joining us tonight. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go.

Bailiff Jesse, we have another friend of the court here at the Rio Theatre in Vancouver right now. Is that correct? Should we invite him to join us on this next segment? Please give a welcome to Mr. Dave Shumka. Shumka. Shumka. Shumka. Shumka. Shumka. Shumka. Shumka. Shumka, Shumka, Shumka.

Shumka, Shumka, Shumka. Dave, we have a seat for you and a microphone. It's designated Shumka-phone. God forbid a guy without a beard comes on stage tonight. You know what I I think you meant to say God forbid a white guy with a beard John you know what

I predicted earlier I said Dave's gonna come out here this is before I saw Dave he's gonna be looking all handsome he's gonna be wearing a nice sweater

Yeah Look at this guy Look at this son of a gun Yeah Beautiful zip front sweater Oh it zips from the bottom and the top I didn't know you had a sweater act Beautiful zip front sweater. Oh, it zips from the bottom and the top.

I didn't know you had a sweater act. Dave, the last time I was in Vancouver, I stopped by your basement. Uh-huh. Where we recorded an episode of Stop Podcasting Yourself. And didn't we have the nicest time? We sure did, John. Yeah, we did. We absolutely did.

And you were the one who introduced me to a garment that I had no familiarity with before, which is the Cowichan sweater. The sweater that is made by indigenous peoples traditionally in British Columbia. Except the zipper. I think that they get the zipper from China. You want to give credit where credit is due here. Where's the YKK Corporation in on this? Well, I mean, you know, Canada is a diverse culture.

But I went out to go get one of these cowichan sweaters after that show. I went straight to the thrift store and got some beautiful... Am I pronouncing it correctly? Thrift store. Thank you. Never can tell. Never can tell. Never can tell. Everything's a little different here. Sorry.

And I got my son a beautiful, appropriately child-sized cowichan sweater with horses on the front. I mean, this thing's a work of art. And I brought it. I was so happy to bring it to him. And I said, here. And he said, no.

He said, I don't even need to put that on to know that is uncomfortable. Yeah, I have never owned one. Desperately scratchy. They look scratchy. But I believe they're water... Water repellent. Well, yeah. They're absorbent, I think. They're water repellent to Well, yeah. They're absorbent, I think.

They're water repellent to a depth of one millimeter. Yeah. I think they're pretty water repellent, but they also gain weight as it rains. I eventually... He would not wear it, and I was so sad because it's such a handsome thing. And finally I had to pay him money to wear it.

We went out one night. I said, you should wear that sweater. He's like, again, father, no. I insisted he call me father. And I said, I'll pay you $30. And he said, sure. Wow. Why did you, what did the sweater cost?

I don't remember. And I don't remember. Okay. And I don't know what would be a funnier thing to say. More or less than 30. I think it was more than 30. It was a nice... We've got it stored in a secret closet. Yeah, you got it vacuum sealed.

So it can be... In case you ever shrink. Yeah. So it can be rejected by my grandchildren. And carry on a proud British Columbian tradition. Would you have worn it as a... I don't know how old your son is. 20-year-old?

Would I have worn it? No, no. I mean, at this time he was 12. When I was 12, I was strictly a smoking jacket man. So we have dispensed some justice. Yeah. And God bless you.

You may have noticed there is still a little injustice left in the world that we are going to solve right now. To the best of our ability. That's right. But we've got to do it fast because time is of the essence. You want me to put 15 minutes on the clock? Yeah, we're going to do a segment now called Swift Justice. We're going to hear as many cases as we can in 15 minutes.

So if you're ready to start the timer, and Shumka, you're going to weigh in with your own expertise and your own sense of justice as needed. Okay? Got it. Here we go. Ready and begin. Please welcome Rachel and Andrew. Rachel and Andrew.

Let the record reflect that Andrew is a white guy with a beard. Rachel, you have brought this case before me, Seeking Justice. What is the justice that you seek? So, Andrew and I go out to dinner quite a bit. So you know each other? Yeah, we're married. What is your relationship? We're married.

Oh, sorry, I didn't hear that. So when we go out to dinner, usually a lot of the times we share food so we can try more things. But when we don't, it'll be because I say, I really want to eat that and I want to eat all of it so when when we go to dinner that's all I ever say right so then Andrew will a always make me order first okay B never tell me what he's gonna order and see he won't order the same thing as me even if it's what he really really wants

ah why not andrew i want to try more things the problem is is that he will try what i had and then always complain after that he should have had what i had and he could have he could have had the same thing as me so you're mad at him because he, A, defers to you and you order first. Which I think is lovely. I think that's a really nice gesture. It's an old-fashioned sort of gender role chivalry. Yeah, right. And then whatever you order, he'll order something different because he doesn't want to order

the same thing as you. Exactly. Right. Because that's copying and it's weird. And then he'll order something else that he doesn't want to order the same thing as you. Exactly. Right. But then he won't enjoy it. Because that's copying and it's weird. And then he'll order something else that's bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. So why won't you order just the thing you want? I want to try more things. It's purely tactical. Rachel, does he ever say anything else? Sometimes. Rachel, does he ever say anything else? Sometimes.

For those of you listening at home, this guy is like a Cheshire Cat over here. He's just sitting over here, a really unnerving smile, behind a ginger beard, and any time I look at him, he goes, I want to try more things. So what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? I mean, I don't understand what your standing is here in this case. How does this harm you in any way?

Well, I would like Andrew to enjoy himself. So I'd like him to order the thing he wants to order. Like, give me an example of a thing where you ordered it and you realized after the fact that he really wanted it. What was the food? Like, every single time we go out to dinner. Yeah, I know, but I'm asking you to narrow it down just for the sake of story. Beet salad with pistachios and goat cheese and honey chili drizzle.

And that's what you ordered and he really wanted it and later on he said. After he tasted the, you know, because he wanted to try more things. I want my pee to be pink. Right. So, yeah. Oh, I want to briefly worry that I have blood in my liver don't you ever eat beet salad and then you

forget that you ate beets and then later you're absolutely convinced you have internal bleeding that happened to me in Australia and I went to the doctor I was so disoriented because I had flown to Australia and I went to the doctor. I was so disoriented because I had flown to Australia and I had beat somewhere

and then bad things happened in the bathroom. Up is down, good day is hello, Timbs are Tams. I'm as far away from my family as I've ever been. There's blood in my pee

and it's going the wrong way down the toilet. Doctor, will I be able to play the piano? Shunketh. That's not a knife. This is a knife. I want to try more things.

It is weird to order the same thing as your partner because you lose face in the eyes of the waiter. Yeah, the waiter... I didn't know that was a factor. I think you naturally assume, you feel like the waiter will assume that you are a couple that only eats that dish. Yeah, but who...

They're one of those beat couples. Like, if you go to one of those restaurants that only has macaroni and cheese, and they have, like, ten kinds, but you have to get the same kind of macaroni and cheese, gross. Let me understand. Is this a real thing that Andrew will defer to you?

You order what you want. He'll try it, and then he'll complain that he didn't get it yeah all right no more complaining you made your choice to not get it you don't get you know you get the beats I can't think of some you made your beet salad now your pee is red that's how it goes everyone knows that phrase so that's fine in your favor I will also say this you gotta just order a hard thing about being human is getting in touch with what you what you really want you know what I mean and I think you right now what you want is to try more things but but you've now tried a lot of different

things and whether you're selecting from a lot of different things. And whether you're selecting from a menu at a restaurant, which is a wonderful thing to do, or how you're going to spend your day, or whether you're going to read a book or watch a movie or do the crossword puzzle, or whether you're going to take a walk, or what your job is going to be, what your life is going to be,

it's hard to get in touch with what you really, really want. And I feel that your I want to try more things is a cover for not getting in touch with what you want to eat, at least in this restaurant capacity. I don't know if this, does this trouble him in any other things? Does he have trouble?

A little bit. Yeah, see? Time to tune into what you really want, and if what you really want is what she's ordering, I don't care, Shumka. The waiter is not your husband or wife or spouse or partner. The waiter is just someone you should tip well and be nice to, even if they think you're dumb and unimaginative.

Live your life the way you need to live your life and eat the food that you need to eat and take the time to figure out what you want to eat and don't be embarrassed about it. And don't complain when you don't like what you want to eat and don't be embarrassed about it and and don't and don't complain when you don't like what you got and and don't don't don't eat off each other's plates like this gross too much spit all right i find in rachel's favor rachel and andrew our next litigants amy and jake amy and jake please welcome them to the stage. Amy and Jake.

Hi. Who brings this case before me? Is that a beard? Yeah. Just so you know, Jake has a beard. It's coming in nicely. Thank you. You're welcome.

I appreciate it. Amy or Jake, who brings this case before me? I bring this case before you. And what is your complaint, Amy? Every time we move into a new house, and we did just move into a new house, Congratulations. Thank you. He finds a really big empty wall in the house,

usually the living room or the dining room, and wants to put a giant world map on the wall. Ah. And I would like to not do that. And... So obviously you live together. Yes. Are you married? I would like to not do that. So obviously you live together. Are you married?

Yes, we are married. Very good. And I take it your objection to the world map is that the Mercator projection isn't accurate. It makes the United States look large and Africa look small in comparison. The Robinson projection is really what you need to go for. Which projection? The Robinson projection. The Robinson projection? really what you need to go for. Which projection? The Robinson projection.

The Robinson projection? Yeah. Well, they're all faulty to some degree. Correct. I'm going to have to get a globe. What's the deal with the Robinson? We're going to nerd out about maps here. With Jake for a sec.

Tell me about the Robinson projection. I don't know that one. Well, the Robinson's a good compromise between Mercator, straight lines, easy to understand, and round. Right. So that's the one with the rounded edges. Got you. Kind of looks like the Batman symbol.

Yeah. Okay. I got you. All right. Yeah. Is that the one you want to put up in your dining room? I haven't decided which projection is best for our dining room. But we're talking about a full wall.

Big wall. Big wall. Do you get a new map every time you move? I have gotten zero maps so far. Yeah. I think that's the point, Shemka. I don't think he's ever gotten a map on any of these walls. Is this an interior decoration

thing or do you need a place to plan your troop movements? Yugoslavia has fallen! Yeah, what are you going to do with the map? Pins? Pushpins? I think a map is a great way to inspire you to do cool things. A map teaches you...

Like learn the names of rivers. Correct. It teaches you where places are, it shows you how to get there, and it inspires you to go. Yeah. It's too bad there isn't a computer program. Shows you how to get there. Wait, wait, how does your world map have like streets that you need to turn onto? Okay, okay. So back when we first started dating about 15 years ago, his little bachelor pad, he used to get,

you know the maps that you used to be able to get when you went to like a AAA or a BCAA? You used to be able to get those free road maps? Mm-hmm. He used to get those. I have no idea what you're talking about. Really? You don't know? Yeah, if you're a member of the Automobile Association,

you can go into the office and request any road maps you want, and they will give them to you for free. It's how my dad planned our minor league baseball tour when I was 12. Yeah, and you keep them in your car. They're not decorative, but he used to put them all up on the wall. Big unfolding maps.

Yeah, with creases and everything. So he used to use them as decor. At his bachelor pad. Yeah. And yet you still married him. This monster who was curious about the world. Only after he took down the pad. Yeah. And yet you still married him. Only after... This monster who was curious about the world. Only after he took down the maps. Yeah. Why do you dislike them so much?

Well, I'm very particular about interior decor, and I don't think that a giant world map would look good in one of our main living spaces. Okay. I also think that anyone could get a world map. Like, you could just go to a store and buy a world map, or you could go online and buy a world map. I know one person who, to date, has not been able to get a world map? Like, you could just go to a store and buy a world map or you could go online and buy a world map.

I know one person who, to date, has not been able to get a world map. But anyone can do it. It's just, it's not a cool thing to do. I mean... You want your decor to reflect physical challenges? Well, most of the art

we have in our house, we usually will go on vacation somewhere and we'll buy, like, a local artist's print or painting or something like that like something we actually went and bought that means something to us sure and we actually do have a few smaller maps that we bought one um it's a map of the dalmatian coast that we got when we were in croatia that's a part of the world yes right okay yes so very specific to the place we went a map of the place we went and we also have a vintage map of cape cod that we got one time when we were in Massachusetts.

Yeah, I like Massachusetts. It's a part of New England that's a region of the northeastern United States. Yeah. It's a commonwealth that I grew up in. It's lovely. Yeah. So I don't mind those maps because those are representative of places we've actually been. They have some, like a generic world map feels a little like classroom-y.

It feels really just basic. Ooh. Ooh. It's not meaningful. How much time do we have left on this one? What about, have you ever seen one of those world map shower curtains?

Smells like a beach ball, kind of does the same thing. Also basic. And I'm sorry. Amy, I wouldn't have brought this up if you hadn't brought it on yourself, but are you wearing a scarf with pictures of cats on it? Yes.

I'm not saying it's not a cute scarf. I'm just saying. Can I a cute scarf. I'm just saying. Can I get you a latte or anything? I actually, I had Starbucks before we came in, so I'm good. And one other reason as to why I don't want the map. Jake is very smart, and he knows a lot of things about, like, map projections and stuff. I noticed. Yeah.

about like map projections and stuff. I noticed. Yeah. And sometimes he forgets that we're not a classroom and he begins to lecture me about things like geography. And I don't want to hear lectures about the world. Do you think that Jake's not having a huge map in the dining room is ever going to stop that behavior? I think that he will lecture,

the amount of lectures will go up if we have a giant map. What do you do for a living, Jake? I do operations analysis. It's super boring. He also has a podcast. All right, plug your podcast. Maps with Jake.

If you're interested in exploring. Can you name all the tributaries of the Monongahela River? I can. I'm Jake. Welcome to my podcast. Get out your dining room maps. We're gonna go on a journey. We're gonna go on a journey together.

All of us men in our dining rooms with our maps. By the way, it's me, Jake, saying again to all of my listeners, I'm sorry you were divorced. Do you have kids? No. Do you think you might have kids? No. Have an incredible time.

Thank you, we intend to. I have a lot of places on a map that we need to get to. You may not need a map because you will actually be able to travel to places if you wish for many, many times. But is there a possibility of any compromise? Do you have an office? I mean, I don't know what your new house is like. Is there a room where you would tolerate a large map and that Jake would be satisfied with a large map? Yes.

He has a... So his podcast is about Mars. It's about outer space. So he has a space-themed office slash recording studio in the house. And is there a wall large enough for a super big map? Yes, but it's taken up with these sound-absorbing panels that have pictures... Yeah, well, you need those for a podcast. That have pictures of Mars on them.

I see. So you're saying he should podcast. That have pictures of Mars on them. I see. So you're saying he should quit his podcast and put a map in there. Can you guys survive without the money from your Mars podcast? It's very lucrative. I would accept the garage as a place for a world map. Oh.

garage as a place for a world map. The most emasculating place of exile. Well, the garage is a good man cave. You could have like sexy maps. Or beer maps. He actually does want to brew beer in the garage, so he could sit

and brew beer and look at his map. Go to the garage, sit and brew beer, look at your map, I'm mad at you. I respect that you have a strong opinion on this, Amy, and yet I don't think you really want to be shoving Jake entirely into the garage with all of his beer and Mars and map junk. You know, your lives have to be integrated, even into areas of decor. He has to live there, too. Yeah, but he has his space room. He has his space room already. I mean, I've always wanted a wall-sized map.

And I want him to have what he wants, but I want him to want something different. It's clear that you've given this a lot of thought 15 years worth no i understand there needs to be in your future a room that is not marscast that is not the garage that is not the dining room or the living room a room or hall or foyer, some big expanse of wall where Jake can eventually put his big map. If it is not in this house, perhaps there will be another house. At some point, Jake needs to have this. It'll never get out of his system. It's all he wants.

And shoving him into the garage with it is not healthy for your relationship in my opinion. I believe that there is a tasteful map that will make him happy. But I appreciate your strong feelings and ultimately sometimes you just have to defer to the strong feelings of the other person in the relationship my old editor Paul tough his dad and stepmom had a simple way of expressing their strong feelings

they had a scale of one to ten on everything so if they were making chick if like if if the dad was thinking about making chicken for dinner and he was like I'm gonna have chicken for dinner. I'm a seven on chicken. And she would be like, well, how do you feel about chicken? She's like, I'm a five.

Well, I'm a seven. You had chicken. It was just like done. It was a thing. And he's like 10 on map, but you're like 25 on no map. At least in that dining room. And I appreciate that.

That's a central place. So I'm going to honor your veto. But this is going to happen eventually. I know. 15 years is just the beginning. It's only going to get weirder. And meanwhile, Jake, get a huge globe. It's the only appropriate representation of the Earth.

Get a huge globe for your space room. It'll look good in there. He does have a Mars globe in his space room. Throw the Mars globe out the window. Earth globe, that's where you live, Jake. Earth rules, Mars drools. Get back to Earth. Suck it, Mars.

I find in favor of Amy. I would also like to point out that every person in this room is thinking why is there a couple that has a house that has so many rooms in a garage in Vancouver? Shouldn't they be using this space for something profitable like a button-making store? No. So, who are the litigants who come before me now, Bailiff Jesse Thorne? Jacqueline and Anton. Jacqueline, Anton, who brings this case before me?

Who seeks justice in this court? I do, Judge. Jacqueline, I presume? Yes. What is the nature of your dispute? Well, I'm a fan of Broadway musicals. Broadway musicals. Yes.

Ah! The signature tune of the hit show Broadway musicals. It's the one you walk home humming. Anyway, and I have, we have four little kids, kids so unlike that last couple we can't travel the world that easily and i want to help encourage them to love musicals um so that we can go whenever we can because musicals are great musicals are great yeah right exactly i sometimes try to encourage that love of musicals by watching really bad quality bootlegs of musicals on YouTube. Oh, you're talking about people who sneak phones and record the musicals. Yeah, and I would never encourage my children to do that,

and I discourage them because... Well, they're never going to do it because they're never going to a Broadway musical because they're in No Fun City. True. But we've driven to Seattle. We've driven to Seattle a couple times. Oh, good. So we do what we can.

I'm willing to take them and do what I can to spend money on it. I would never encourage them to sneak a camera into a musical. Right. But, wow, it's on YouTube. We may as well. Might as well take advantage of it. Yeah. What's the ones that you've bootlegged?

Well, Hamilton was on there for a while. Uh-huh. But for like five minutes. Right. We watched it as quick as we could. We saw it in Seattle. My kids haven't seen it. I watched Dear Evan Hansen.

I love Ben Platt, and there's no way to see that anymore. So that was a good one. We saw Wicked, which we're now going to see when it comes to Seattle. So we've already seen the terrible shaky version.

And what is your dispute with this, Anton? First of all, they suck, the quality. Second of all, I don't... Are you a hi-fi guy? I am a hi-fi guy, yes. I don't love... There's no stereo imaging. I don't love my children watching something

that was acquired so sinisterly, I would say. Jacqueline, what's wrong with professional videos of musicals? I recently watched the production of Company with Neil Patrick Harris and Stephen Colbert and many Broadway legends as well. Sure. What's wrong with that? Nothing's wrong with them. They're just hard to find,

especially with the newer ones. Yeah. Well, there are many... If they just would film them professionally and put them on iTunes, I'd certainly rent them. Yeah, but... They don't do that.

They want us to go to the theater. That's because... Yeah. And I know that it feels like you're being iced out of an incredible once-in-a-lifetime experience, which you are. But bear in mind that if they filmed them

and disseminated them, people would not go to the theater and then it wouldn't happen. There are arguments in both directions too because there are a lot of simulcast performances of plays and so forth where you can go to a theater and see a live screening of a thing happen yeah they should do more of that and also they they tend to do it in pretty pretty high quality 4k so even you Anton's nodding he knows see I knew a thing a 4k is a thing right that's

good it's a thing that's pretty good right it's good is it more the bad quality of it or is it more the nefariousness of the of? The initial gut reaction to seeing something so poor in quality on a screen is what gets me at first. But then the thought of somebody going to a theater and then sneaking in a camera so that they could film it just seems next level bad. Can I tell you a story? I interviewed on my NPR show Bullseye Cassandra Peterson. You know who that is? Anybody? Cassandra Peterson?

Oh, that's Elvira. Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, the amazing woman. And we booked the interview like two days before it was supposed to happen. So I didn't have time to go to Knott's Berry Farm. It was not Scary Farm. It was October. And see Cassandra's Halloween Spooktacular,

her hilarious show. And I was tearing my hair out. I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to interview her about her famous Halloween pun fest when I can't go to Anaheim or Buena Park or wherever it is that Knott's Berry Farm is and see this show.

The Grove, the Arclight, you know LA things. Somebody's heard a podcast. Mattresses, stamps. I typed it in to YouTube. The bootlegs first of all she's been doing the show many years, and there are many versions of the show on YouTube.

The quality of these bootlegs is extraordinary. Like, stunning quality, like Grateful Dead board recording quality of Elvira's Halloween puns. Bootlegs? More like boob legs. Elvira, ladies puns bootlegs more like boob legs Elvira ladies and gentlemen puns award-winning podcaster Dave Shumka so it can be used for good I guess is my point so here's here's the thing. It is wrong to sneak cameras in. And you are asked not to do it by the theater. And therefore, you should not do it.

You're not doing that. No. Correct? Correct. And I would never tell my children to do it. Do you explain to them that what they're watching has been obtained illegally and nefariously? Yes. All right. Well, if they know that. Do they then reply, can obtained illegally and nefariously? Yes. All right.

Well, if they know that. Do they then reply, can I just watch a real show? Some of them do, yes. You may have heard earlier a story about my getting a cowichan sweater for my son. Yes. And he would not wear it because it was uncomfortable and scratchy. And we were going out, and I said, you should wear that couch and sweater,

and I'll pay you $30 to wear it. Do you know where we were going that night? The theater, I guess. Yeah, Hamilton. That's right. Is that supposed to be like that better? A little play called Hamilton. And do you know what happened after we saw Hamilton?

You met Lin-Manuel Miranda? Well, he already knew Lin-Manuel Miranda, who's a Judge John Hodgman listener. It weakens my knees every time I realize that Lin-Manuel Miranda sometimes listens to this podcast. Hi, Lin. And so incredibly and unfairly, we were invited backstage after. And the gentleman who was playing King George at the time, whose name escapes me at the moment, I apologize, walked by, stopped, turned to my son and said,

that's an incredible sweater. And my son was speechless. And I said, you're goddamn right. You're... speechless and I said, you're goddamn right. Your father is always right. That's a story of incredible privilege. I appreciate that. Not everyone can enjoy an experience like that. Even just to go to a Broadway show itself is an incredible gift of random geography and also wealth. I think that it is wrong to bootleg those shows because you're asked not to do it.

It's like taking soda water from a soda fountain at a fast food place without asking. It's probably okay in that case, but you should ask first. If you're asked not to do a thing, you shouldn't do it. That said, these bootlegs are being made and they may be the only way

some people in the world are able to engage with musical theater at all. There are touring companies. You're going down to Seattle. That's good. You're introducing them to actual theater. Presumably you are getting original cast recordings.

I know that Hamilton has been recorded, filmed. That will be released eventually. In high quality. High quality stuff. Like I think in VR. Not true. Not true.

You should, to the best of your ability and invest in professional recordings of real musicals because they're not as hard to find as all that do you know what I mean but since the stuff is out there and you're telling your kids that it's wrong but you're doing it anyway which is something we have to do in times in this life. I can't find against you in this case. Instead, I would say invest as much time going to actual theater, supporting actual theater, including theater here in Vancouver.

Find a nonprofit theater here in Vancouver and donate some money to make up for the crime that you helped commit but you're watching those things does not encourage people to make more of them they're gonna make them anyway they're gonna post them anyway it's just the way it is then maybe you know move to New York it's great it's amazing it's amazing you know what that city is fun and it's cheaper too i find in jacqueline's favor that's the end of swift justice hi it's me again john hodgman sending thanks to louise burns and dave shimka for joining us on stage in vancouver louise burns can be found online at louise-burns.com. That's L-O-U-I-S-E hyphen B-U-R-N-S dot com. You don't have to spell it hyphen, just put a hyphen there. Dave Shumka's podcast with Graham Clark,

of course, is Stop Podcasting Yourself. You know this. It's available wherever you get podcasts, and if you don't know it, know it. In fact, if you live in Vancouver, you should know that Dave and Graham are coming back to the Rio Theater on February 17th for a live show. You should go check it out. Our thanks go out to Aaron Chapman and everyone at the Rio Theater for their help making this show happen. The show is recorded by Matthew Barnhart. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Until the future, this is Judge John Hodgman signing off.

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