Judge John Hodgman - MaxFunWeek

Episode Date: October 15, 2014

Judge John Hodgman clears the docket with some special guests from Song Exploder, The Memory Palace and My Brother, My Brother and Me in celebration of MaxFunWeek.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Judge Hodgman special episode today, the very first day episode special episode special. I had no idea you had a corral prepared for the occasion. I had no idea you had a corral prepared for the occasion. It's the first day of MaxFunWeek. So it starts today when this episode comes out, which is October 15th, runs a week through October 21st, and it is a special celebration of the fans of MaximumFun.org and all of the things that we do here at MaximumFun.org.

I'm really excited about it. First time we've ever done it. And we have so many awesome activities planned for the week. Like what? Well, today is MaxFun Trivia Day. Today, Wednesday, October 15th, which may or may not be the time that people are listening to this. People are going to be, if you follow at MaxFunHQ on Twitter,

we will be giving away prizes to people answering MaxFun trivia questions correctly. Like what would be a trivia question? Do you have one? Give me one. Give me a freebie. I'll ask one. Okay, go for it. Well, I just did, as part of MaxFunWeek,

a very fun crossover episode with my brother, my brother, and me. Which of the three McElroy brothers did not appear in the first season of My Brother, My Brother, and Me, and then suddenly appeared, and they acted as though he was there the whole time, like Sandra on the Bill Cosby show? Well, I guess that's for you to know and for us to find out. Well, I guess that's for you to know and for us to find out. Listen to the show and find out which of your three McElroy brothers is a ghost McElroy. Jesse, you sound under the weather. I am a little bit under the weather. This is no way to start MaxFunWeek.

I apologize if I hawk up any chunks of lung during the course of this program. Thursday is Leave a Review Day. There are literally tens of thousands of you who have not yet reviewed this program or the other MaxFun shows that you listen to on iTunes. That makes a really huge difference. So we really appreciate it when people do that. So that's Thursday the 16th.

Friday, October 17th. Let me take this one, Jesse. Sure. You cough into your consumption cloth for a little bit. Friday, October 17th is Immediate Summary Judgment Day. That's for Judge John Hodgman super fans, and I'm going to allow medium fans as well. We'll post an audio clip of one of the cultural references on Twitter at MaxFunHQ. That's at MaxFunHQ. That's at MaxFunHQ.

Be the first person with the right answer to identify that audio clip, and you will get into our prize drawing. Yeah, we're going to be giving away prizes all week long. We've got too much crap in the closet. I can't wait. Saturday is Draw the Adventure Zone Adventurers. So basically, speaking of the McElroy brothers,

they recently, in lieu of doing the actual format of their podcast, decided to spend an entire show playing Dungeons & Dragons with their dad. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! And they each created a character. We will be giving out prizes to the people who best visually represent those characters on that day. Sunday the 19th, this is the big one. We're going to have meetups all around the country from 7 to 9 p.m.

So wherever you live, look at MaximumFun.org slash MaxFunMeetup. And we will have more information about where you can go to have a meetup, where you live, meet up with other MaxFun pals. The people who listen to these shows are very, very nice. It is a very pleasant time to meet up, and I say that as someone who has a lot of extra responsibilities whenever I go to one of these meetups, which is to say I have to be nice to everyone.

And I always have a great time. Wait a minute, Jesse, you say that's October 19th? Yeah, Sunday, October 19th. All right, I'm going to be in Madison, Wisconsin, performing at the Barrymore Theater with Bill Corbett

and Kevin Murphy that night. And normally after the show, I like to have a quiet martini and watch Captain America on the LodgeNet and eat a couple of hamburgers. But what I'm going to do instead is I'm going to organize a meetup. I haven't even told those guys about it.

I'm just having this idea now. I'm going to organize a big meetup in Madison, and I hope you will come to see the show. But if you're a MaxFun listener, you can come to the meetup as well. Well, I mean, I can't imagine anyone would miss out on the opportunity to hang out with not only Judge John Hodgman, but also Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett, two of the most pleasant men in the world.

Yeah, and they don't even know about it yet, and they haven't given me permission to use their names, but I'm saying they're going to be there, and you're going to love them, and they're going to love meeting you. Wait a minute. You don't have permission to use their names? Does this mean that it's not actually them, it's just you performing as them? I might be doing my Kevin Murphy, Bill Corbett impersonation,

but that's world famous too. Monday, October 20th is Share Your Favorite MaxFun Episode Day. All on Twitter and Facebook, we're going to be asking you to share your favorite episode of your favorite MaxFun shows. And on Tuesday, October 21st, we are going to be broadcasting

a black and white version of the MaxFun Rocket logo and encouraging people to create artwork from it. Are you going to be broadcasting it? Yeah, we're going to be broadcasting using internet. Oh, I understand. What you do is get your fax machines out and hold the

phone receiver up to your podcast and we'll go, ee-oo, ee-oo, and then a rocket will come out? I'm thinking we're probably going to use the portable document format from Adobe. Oh, okay, very good. That's fine. Now, so all of those things,

you can find more information at MaximumFun.org slash MaxFunWeek, and we hope that you'll join us because it's going to be really cool and fun. Let's get on to the questions that we have here for you, the judge, to answer. Okay. The first one's from Eric.

I bring a case against my friend Susanna. I invited Susanna to my birthday party at a popular local restaurant. Susanna won't go because she hates group dinners. She says she gets anxious over splitting the bill at the end of the meal and that it always creates drama. No one likes the process of splitting the bill, but if everyone splits it evenly on their credit cards,

it's no big deal. I would like the judge to order Susanna to come to my birthday dinner. Splitting a check at a restaurant causes anxiety at all times because really it's something that should never happen. Going out to dinner is an opportunity to be generous or to receive someone's generosity, and it is always the best when your dad or your boss or your friend or your wife or your husband just pays for dinner. And it is even more the best when you reach a point in your life when you are able to pay for someone else's dinner. But a big group dinner obviously gets a little bit more complicated and we don't all have the means to

be treating our friends to din din all the time. so the check does need to be split susanna is wrong in the sense that there does not have to be drama there are calculators that are on almost every smart device and inside of every glasses and imprinted in most people's heads at this point and all you need to do is make sure everyone has enough cash and enough small denominations. And then you just do the math and you figure out what everyone owes. And you put a big pile of cash on the table and you walk out of there feeling like bosses. The drama happens when people get anxious because, well, he had drinks and I didn't have drinks and I don't want to split it evenly. I think it is unfair to ask your server to split up a check

among more than three cards, let's say. Two is more or less acceptable in the practice these days. Three is tolerated. Four, you're turning into a weirdo and a jerk. Don't do that. But the benefit of splitting up between cards is clear. People are paying for what they People are paying for what they bought, what they ate, what they drank. And so what you do to eliminate drama at the table is, first of all, don't split the check evenly because some people like to drink a bunch of beers and some people don't. You go through the printed thing, you figure out what everyone had to eat, and you create a little mental or actual spreadsheet and just do it fairly. No one minds paying their fair share.

Now, if all of this feels a little awkward and weird, you're right, but you're young people. That's why you don't have a lot of money and you need to figure out and you can't spend more than you have, and I understand all of that. All you can do is make sure that you have enough money to pay for your meal, that you are, don't try to skimp on the check. And if there are anyone don't try to uh skimp on the check and if there are anyone in your group who does skimp on the check cover them and then don't invite them anymore but none of this none of this anxiety has is a reason to skip someone's birthday dinner and and therefore Susanna must go to this birthday dinner. And I order her to order, well, you know, if they have escargot on the menu, get it,

because I've always wanted to try it. I had a friend in college named James, and James would always go out to, you know, you're in college, you're always going out together to eat and splitting the bill. You know, you're in college. You're always going out together to eat and splitting the bill. And we'd go out to the pizzeria or Pizza My Heart in Santa Cruz. And James would always order something. You know, he'd order a chicken parm or something.

And it cost $11. And at the end of the meal, he'd hand whoever was paying the bill $11. And no amount of cajoling or complaining could get James to provide any amount of money above and beyond the menu list price of whatever food he had just consumed. Well, he wasn't including for tax? Neither tax nor tip. Oh, yeah. Look, you guys, don't be a James. The reason that there is drama is because people try to get away with little things like that.

They save a dollar here or there. They try to say, well, I wasn't really that hungry, so I'm going to give you $5. I didn't mean to come to this dinner. All kinds of tricks for not paying your way. Being cheap cheapens you. Makes you feel bad. Makes you look bad. Don't do it.

If you can't afford to do a thing, don't do it. Stay home. Have integrity. Watch TV show. Eat Discargo at home. Enjoy some podcasts. Yeah, that's a good idea. Here's something from Mark.

One of my oldest friends, Justin, refuses to use a knife when eating unless he deems it absolutely necessary. No matter how tough the steak, he saws away at his food and my sanity with the dull edge of his fork. I've already made my decision, but you can continue to read. This is compounded by two more factors. This is compounded by two more factors. One, Justin has an abnormally small child-sized mouth, meaning he can only eat tiny bites of food. Now, see, I had braced myself for this guy being offensively wrong.

I did not brace myself for this question being nauseating. Go on. Two, he ceases to eat whenever he's speaking. I've witnessed him suspend a forkful of spaghetti in midair for over two minutes while he goes on and on. All of this means he takes forever to eat and his dining companions have to wait forever to start on dessert. Please help. I don't care how old your friend is. You should stop going out to eat with him because it's gross him talking with his tiny mouth while holding a big, a big spaghetti torch in the air. Gross. You write a letter that does not flatter Justin. And indeed, he deserves no flattery.

While you would never take a knife to a plate of spaghetti, you certainly would take a knife to a steak. Trying to fork cut a steak makes you look like a dumb child. Come on. point where my own human children i realize have not been properly trained by me or any adults in their lives on uh how to cut food with a knife and fork and we're gonna i'm basically gonna have to send them to a special camp i think at this point because there is nothing there is more distractingly tragic than seeing a grown man or woman eat their food like a toddler. And that includes grabbing the knife or grabbing the fork like in your full fist and sticking it into the middle of something and then eating it like, oh, there are those of you out there who are listening, who are loyal listeners and maybe even MaxFun members and supporters. And I love you very much.

But I know you know that you do this and you have to stop. Learn to use your knife and fork properly like a grown up. That's part of the beauty of being a grown up is that you get to do that. You point that fork down with your index finger and your left hand. You cut with your right hand. You lift with your left hand. That's the European style. How sophisticated you look.

How fantastic it feels to be a member of society instead of a weird feral beast. And then as for this thing about not eating while talking, that's called politeness. It's not that your friend's problem isn't that he should be talking with his mouth full. He should shut his tiny mouth a little bit more often, but that's something you're never going to be able to change. I authorize you to continue to see your friend at dining places. You should, you cannot tell him to shut up some of the time because that's rude, but you can tell him that what he's doing with his steak is dumb and Judge John Hodgman says so. My basically perfect wife grew up in a home that was substantially without meat because her younger sister was a vegetarian. And when we moved in together, I realized that she didn't know how to cut things with a knife. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh, uh-huh. She would basically, like, she would use the knife as though it was, basically as though it was a second fork, and she was trying to tear two things apart. Oh, yeah. Well, that's fine, because she was raised in an unusual environment. Well, I think the moral of this story is

I showed her in a very nice way the efficacy of using a relatively light pressure and allowing the serration of your steak knife to do the work. And it has immeasurably enhanced not only my life because I no longer have to look at her struggling to tear pieces of meat in half, but also it's improved her life. And she's very glad to have had this uh to have had this skill added to her arsenal so i think that um i think that it's entirely possible that justin just grew up in some kind of weird home where knives weren't allowed because they were you know eighth day adventists or something yeah yes i and i you know, by calling out the listeners who use their knives and forks incorrectly

and calling them cretins and weirdos, I may have gone a little bit too far. It may be that they come from a culture where these things are unusual for whatever reason. A weird cretinist culture. But, you know, when presented with a tool, what Patti Smith calls the beautiful handiwork of man, these are things that were created by the ingenuity of man and womankind. You do them a disservice to use them incorrectly. Cutting a steak or a piece of seitan properly is doing honor to the craftsmanship of the person who invented these wonderful things

that we have. It's a wonderful thing to use a tool properly. And Jesse, I'm glad you brought up what you did because you said something that I wish I had, that I didn't know until late in life. And I think a lot of people don't know, and it's important to know, which is that when cutting with a knife, let the knife do the work. If you have a dull knife, then you got to get that sharpened, but a sharp knife, you know, the, the, the, the cleaving, uh, uh, that happens happens because you're moving the knife back and forth with, as you say, gentle pressure. A lot of people take a knife in any situation, a bread knife, a steak knife or whatever. And they try to shove that thing almost, almost, you know, sort of, uh, at a 90 degree

angle to the table down. And that's how injuries happen. A nice well-sharpened knife or serrated knife. You move that back and forth. It'll, it'll cut through. It'll cut through that, that, uh, that thing like a knife through, through butter or another soft thing, by the way, you should be eating your butter with a fork and knife too. Come on, everybody grow up. Yeah.

God, the whole bread thing is gross. My mother-in-law would eat a stick of butter with a knife and fork if she were allowed to. I bet you. So is there with my own father, my own father grew up in an all-American household where butter was the main dish and other foods were the condiment.

Yeah, absolutely. Carrie, that's what you need to get the butter to your face. Well, Jesse, you know, thanks so much for doing this docket with me. It's been so much fun doing these docket-only episodes. People really enjoy them. They make a nice change of pace. We're obviously going to get back to live litigants in the future. And since this is MaxFunWeek, I know that means there are no surprises coming. And we're just going to sign off now, right? Oh, no, no, no, no. That couldn't be further from the truth, John.

Wait, now what are you doing now, Jesse? Judge John Hodgman, this is your life. Oh, no, I don't want it at all. You, sir, are queen for a day. I'll take that for sure. Oh, my God, yes. What's that, Julia? Hold on.

No, Julia says we forgot to book all the people from Judge John Hodgman's life, and we don't have a brand new washer dryer for Judge John Hodgman? Oh. I can still be the Queen of the United Kingdom for a day, right? Julia, can you just get a couple of MaxFun hosts on the line to help us answer questions?

Is that a good fallback position? Okay. She's nodding. She's nodding yes. But no Queen? No Queen. I'm sorry. All right. Okay, she's nodding. She's nodding yes. But no queen? No, no queen. I'm sorry. All right. It's not as good as it sounds, honestly, being queen of England.

I just want to drive that Land Rover that Helen Mirren drove around in in the movie The Queen. That's my perfect life. You just want that beautiful royal blue suit. I kind of do. Yeah, that's true. Okay. royal blue suit. I kind of do.

Yeah, that's true. Okay. Our first Max Fun guest answerer is a decidedly qualified music expert, Rishi Kesh Hurway, of the podcast Song Exploder. On Rishi's show, he talks to musicians about songs they've created and breaks them down into their constituent pieces. For you, the listener. Hey, Rishi, how you doing, pal? I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for having me.

Hi, it's so nice to have you here, Rishi. This is Queen John Hodgman. No, John, I don't have the power to make you Queen of England. I'm Queen of this courtroom. And we are not amused, but we're very happy to welcome you, Rishi. Do I address the judge as his honor or his majesty? His honesty. Here's the question for Rishi. I'm kind of okay at playing the trombone. This comes by the way from Kyle and I recently joined a brass band. We play together every Thursday and Sunday and I really enjoy doing it. Here's my problem. My co-worker and fellow trombone-playing friend Maria wants me to join a second band with her. This band is bigger, plays harder pieces, and goes on a couple of trips

every year. I'd need to commit to two or more hours of rehearsal every week and five weekend trips a year. I don't have time for more rehearsal every week and I'm miserable grump on band trips. Judge Hodgman, please tell Maria she has to stop bothering me about joining the second band. And if you like, you could order her to try on my shoes for a week to see how they fit. I'm a freelance illustrator and comic artist, so she could try managing my projects and going to both sets of rehearsals. Exclamation mark. Well, first all i may i may have to let rishi take a stab at this while i reread the second half of this question because i got hung up at this brass band is bigger plays harder pieces and goes on a couple of trips a year and i was just thinking

harder meaning more complicated or harder meaning like more hardcore. Yeah. Some like real hard brass. They play only ACDC tunes. I would totally hear it. That's Led Zeppelin being played by a brass band. So while I reconciled, I like it. Yeah. Yeah. But not on the trombone.

That sounds more like a, because it's not slide. The notes aren't sliding, you're punching them. Like it's a valve instrument that you're playing on right now, like a trumpet or a flugelhorn. Yeah. Look, I haven't really studied an instrument since I was 14 years old, but I know a few things about the brass section, you know what I mean? So while I reread the second half of this question, I'm going to throw it to Rishi right now with this question. Kyle writes, I am kind of okay at playing the trombone. If you are kind of okay at playing the trombone, in your opinion, Rishi, should you be playing the trombone at all?

It depends on what the stakes are. The stakes seem pretty low. So I think it's all right. At least in this first brand. The first band seems like the stakes are low. Seems like they're appropriate stakes for this guy's chops. So you think, but now Maria is pushing this guy to play some more hard brass. Yeah. And my question is, I don't know if you guys have this information, is Maria in both bands or is she only in the second band? I think Maria is in the second band. And not in the first band. But she's like, well, you're playing in one band.

Why don't you join this other one that I'm in also? Well, with respect, I think it's immaterial. Maria has made her choice. She just wants to play in a whole bunch of bands and play the hardest music possible. She just wants to rock out. She sounds like a flugelhornist if I've ever known one. You know what I mean? She's not respecting the fact that the trombonist is a, you know, they're a different breed of player. You know what I mean? She's not respecting the fact that the trombonist is a, you know, they're a different breed of player. You know what I mean? They're like, I'm going to be the bass line in a New Orleans style jazz band. That means I'm going to work three hours a day and then I'm going to sit around and drink and reminisce the rest of the time. You know what I mean?

reminisce the rest of the time. You know what I mean? This is a trombone is a sliding cool instrument. And even if this guy were more proficient on it, he shouldn't be. And no one asks a trombonist to do more than they feel like, in my opinion. What do you think? I think that this is actually, we're actually missing the crucial part of the message. So I think that Kyle is right. I think that Maria should stop bothering him, but it actually has nothing to do with the schedule. I think you're right. What do you think? I like where you're going with this.

So the crucial thing that he said was that he is a miserable grump on band trips. Okay. So this doesn't actually, it doesn't matter what his schedule is like or how busy he is or how busy he thinks he is or what maria thinks about that that alone should end the whole thing because um as somebody who's been on tour a lot and really enjoys tour there is nothing that makes tour less fun for everybody else than being on tour with even just one person who isn't having fun. Yeah. And you can't force someone to have fun if they're not going to.

Right. So my feeling is that we don't know Maria's true intentions here, but they have to be three kinds. One is that she is trying to reform Kyle in some way to make him like She is trying to reform Kyle in some way to make him like band trips when he just doesn't, which is a stupid and impossible errand and she should stop. Two, her hardcore brass band really needs a trombonist and he's the only one. And so she's going to just try to keep recruiting him for that reason, but she should stop. And three, the only other reason you would push someone to join a brass band when they don't want to is when uh you are secretly in love with them and you want to hug and kiss them aka the high school band theory exactly she wants him on the road on those on those band trips so they can share a hotel room together in albuquerque you feeling me rishi what

do you think? I think you're talking about a different kind of trombone, a rusty trombone. Get him off. Get him off. Out of here. I thought that's where he was going with it. You know, this is a children's podcast, effectively.

I think she's trying to seduce. No, that's okay. I'm just fooling around. I think she's trying to seduce no that's okay i'm just fooling around i think she's trying to seduce him i think so too i that was the first thing i thought of well there's two things there's two possibilities there's one rule in the court of judge sean hodgman the first thing you think of is always the best and rightest what was the second thing you thought of jesse you said there are two possibilities i don't really know how hard it is to find a trombone player, but maybe it's really hard to find a trombone player. It is hard because trombonists just I'm totally making out of whole cloth this cliche about trombonists. The trombonists, they don't want to work too hard. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Trombonists are mad lazy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, trombonists are mad lazy. Yeah, no one's picking up the trombone so that they can get into every marching band there is. Picking up that trombone because they want to sit on a porch and just go, you know what I mean?

They want to find the note their own way. Ask the other members of any trombone intensive band. Chicago, Tower of Power, the Dirty Dozen Brass Band, John Philip Sousa and Friends. The Music Mans. Professor Harold Hill. Ask Professor Harold Hill. Ask Professor Harold Hill. He'll tell you about how lazy trombonists are. He needed 76 of them for one gosh darn band.

But very quick before we move on to our next surprise guest, Rishi, you say you love to go on tour. When you tour, what are your favorite cities to go to? Philadelphia is a nice one. Yes. Last time I was in i played in philadelphia i got taken to a secret cookie making factory uh and it was amazing you have made me speechless a secret cookie making factory what are you talking about

they're making secret cookies the cookies the cookies are not available to the public the cookies are claimed to be handmade but are actually factory made they're illuminati cookies that are that are made secretly in philadelphia and shipped to the bilderberg group every year no it was like uh it was this kitchen um in the i think it was in the fishtown neighborhood that's a neighborhood in philadelphia i think it is fishtown yes all right oh and is that pittsburgh that's pittsburgh um anyway there was a it was a it was called like because they had a name like the fishtown biscuit company no it is philadelphia you're right i apologize it is philadelphia it's a neighborhood in philadelphia okay so you were saying so yeah these guys had this there's a kitchen and they would rent it out at night you know it was like a regular business during the day and then at night

they rented out to different people and there was this one group of like three three kids had two guys and a girl and they used to, and they would make cookies and donuts, like mini donuts at night and then deliver them to cafes and stuff during the day. I got to go there after a show and, you know, make some donuts and eat the donuts. It was, it was incredible. Well, when you were saying cookies, which I don't care about, cause I hate all sweets. when you were saying cookies, which I don't care about because I hate all sweets, I was not interested,

but donuts are one of the exceptions because they're fried. And I will, I would love to go and fry some secret donuts after my show in Philadelphia on the 17th of October at the underground arts. So, so let me know, fishtown. I'll come around and make up a donut with you. And I apologize for putting you in Pittsburgh. I'll come around and make up a donut with you. And I apologize for,

uh, putting you in Pittsburgh. I got confused there for a minute. That sounds great. I love going on tour so much. I love finding these things. It's so much fun. Let's go go on tour together sometime,

Rishi. That sounds great. I might be on tour. I mean, I will be on tour and in Seattle on November 15th with one of your friends, uh, John Roderick. Oh yes. I'm doing a live version of song exploder at the rendezvous theater at the, at the, uh, the, the, the rendezvous with John Roderick. Yes. That's right. That's the, that's the hottest ticket in Seattle. Everybody. John Roderick, you know, is one of the greatest talents of music and talking.

He's going to be talking about how he made a Long Winter's song. Fantastic. And that'll be November, say the date again? November 15th. November 15th, that is mid-November. Exactly. In Seattle, Washington. Hot ticket. I'd go and get one right now. I'm sorry.

I can't be there because I'm going to be performing somewhere else in this dumb nation. I hate going on tour. I take it back. Can't do the things I want to do. Rishi, thank you so much for joining us on Judge John Hodgman. Thank you so much for having me. Rishikesh Herway, host of Song Exploder, our Max Funn sister podcast, a totally amazing show. He's also the musician behind the 1am radio.

Well, that was really great. I love that Song Exploder. And that's in one of the Max Funn podcasts. And that was a fun surprise on Max Funn week. I'm sorry, I can't be the queen. But you know, I can only take one surprise a day before I have a terrible heart palpitations. So now we're going to wrap it up. Thank you very much everyone. But what, what is it Jesse? I don't, oh gosh, I'm trying to think of how to put this. You know how you expected to talk to two more MaxFun hosts through the course of this program no i didn't expect that at all that would come as a tremendous surprise for me oh um what if i told you that yesterday i told you that you would talk to nate de mayo next well today then i wouldn't then

i wouldn't be surprised. Oh, great. Well, we're going to talk to Nate DeMeo, the host of The Memory Palace. What? Yeah, Nate is not... I remember that from yesterday. Why are you even telling me now? Wait a minute. You're surprised that I'm telling you a second time? I'm surprised you would insult my intelligence by telling me this again.

Oh, just don't die on me, Hodgman. That's okay. I have heart palpitations all the time. So Nate is not only the host of the Memory Palace podcast, he is also a sometime writer for Grantland, the popular sports and culture website, and a huge sports fan. So we thought we'd bring Nate a sports related question. And a huge sports fan. So we thought we'd bring Nate a sports-related question. Hi, Nate. Hi, how are you?

I'm doing okay. Hi, Nate. This is Queen John Hodgman for a day. Hello, Your Highness. I told him we were going to do a Queen for a Day thing, but then I found out that Julia didn't get it together to get all the stuff that you need, the tiara and everything. So I tried to cancel it, but the judge isn't listening. I have my own tiara and my own orb and scepter so i am ready for my coronation but for now i guess we're going to ask you a sports question because jesse wants to talk

about sports every day and i want to talk about it no days and now i am i am going i am i am going to listen to to your sports knowledge. So let's talk about running and kicking games on a day in which you are clean. You don't even get your way. No sport. Sports is sports is more powerful than any constitutional monarchy. As the United Kingdom well knows. Here's our question from Michelle. I have a dispute with my husband, Paul. I contend that when we attend a baseball game, we should pick a team to root for during the game

because this adds to our enjoyment of the game. Paul seems to think that the game's enjoyable by its very existence, and you don't need to pick a team if you don't have a rooting interest. What say you, DeMayo? Wait a minute, Jesse. Jesse and Nate, I'm sorry to interrupt.

I think there must have been some problem with our connectivity. Jesse, did you read the question? Yeah, you couldn't hear me? Can you hear me now? All I heard was wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. So you're telling me that you're one of the Peanuts gang and I'm the teacher from Peanuts whenever I talk about sports? I just heard wah, wah, wah, wah, sports.

Go ahead, Nate. You better take this one because I don't talk this language. How do you expect to adjudicate it if you can't if you can't if you can't hear beyond the sad trombone that doesn't matter and wow that's an amazing that's an amazing trombone callback how did you know we were just talking about trombones and how did you and why did you think of sad trombone and i didn't for that last case oh a sad trombone. Those are the words to a sad trombone, you know. I've stolen the tiara. You totally have.

And you should run with it, and that is a sport that I can support. Running the tiara. Steal and run with the tiara. I love the way that this question is traded, because it really does sound like two of Bernie Wooster's friends out for an outing like when you attend the baseball game but you know i think that

see i can i have the hunch that john uh john todd doesn't seem to enjoy sport or sports if we call it here in the united states um which a doesn't surprise me, and B, is a fundamentally terrible position. Sports is, I mean, first of all, it's the only thing that we, as a nation, you know, we may all love our podcasts listened to by a small percentage of the population. Some of us may produce them. We may all love our bands listened you know listen to by a small percent of the population we may all enjoy our fringe uh candidates and our fringe conspiracy theories and live in a world where we feel like those things are not fringe yet sports is the one

thing in american and in certain global culture that um you know if you get stuck if you get stuck talking to like a dude at a wedding, you might be able to fake your way through a conversation. Otherwise, you're not going to say, hey, I really enjoyed the new Young Thug album. It doesn't work that way. Here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I see what you're saying. And you're right. Sports is is truly the last remnant of mass culture and and perhaps the most universal culture that we have but i have a trick i don't get stuck with a dude at a wedding interesting well there is there's always the

weather well there's all there's there's the weather there's sports there's uh star wars you probably talk star wars with any dude too that's why that my trick. But I'm not going to hang out with any bros at a wedding. No way. I don't get any good gossip that way. All right, go on. You know, and so I, you know, I, while I may, I have grown up liking sports

just by, you know, just by the usual reasons. There's a dad, there's a bat, there's a ball, there's a backyard, you're a boy, et cetera. I know what two of those things are. Exactly. So, but as I progressed, you know, and went on to find, you know, books and literature

and comics and music, et cetera, sports for me always sort of stayed with me, you know? So even at my most underground, even at my most arty, et cetera, I have always loved professional baseball. Sure. Oh, yeah. Everyone loves the wholesome, nostalgic appeal of their favorite running and kicking game.

Yeah, of course. I understand. Look, I like sports fine nate i just don't i don't like everyone saying that i'm a weirdo for not liking sports and that i have there's some moral imperative for me to like sports and really support a sports team that that to me is just a matter judge hodgman just becauseauvinism. Just because you briefly played professional high lie in the late 1960s does not mean that you actually like sports fine. I was going to go all the way.

I was going to go all the way, but they shut it down. And here's the thing that I will say. I like baseball quite a bit. I think soccer is boring, but I'm'm not gonna get in the way of anybody loving the thing that they like that's a it's that seems to me like an an unendurably boring playground game that just never ends foot professional football is becoming harder and harder to defend certainly and no easier for me to understand what's going on. And, and yet it also gets not tarred with the brush, but rather illuminated with the brush of wholesome nostalgia, which I think is

gross. When you look at, at how, how human beings, you know, human beings are traded as cattle in most professional sports, but few human beings end up as being physically ruined by their activity as professional football players. And they have a choice to go into that, but I don't feel they're well supported. So that's the only sport where I feel like I don't get I don't get why you like it. And I certainly don't find any of your defenses to be compelling. But I'm not going to interfere with your I'm not going to interfere with your with your love of it. And you and we're all adults and you should go and do your thing. Don't but please don't sneer at me because I want to have a conversation about Sha Na Na right now, which I kind of do. which I kind of do.

I've been on a Sha Na Na personal K-hole since Andy Daly brought it up on his podcast, his Wolfman Hot Dog podcast, and it's just been in my mind. But go on. But the question I have for you, Nate, is as a sports fan and as a baseball fan and as someone who agrees, I think even with me, that baseball

has an intrinsic pace and beauty and strategy to it, which is artful and not merely exciting and actually very rarely exciting. Do you think it's okay for Michelle to go to a game and say, I'm not rooting for any of these teams. I just enjoy watching them throw the bat around or whatever it is. Or do you think you need to pick a team to root for or else you're not enjoying sports the right way? Well, I believe it was Michelle's husband.

So let's not damn Michelle with that particular brush. But, you know, for me, like, you know, there is a lot of nonsense that gets tossed around with baseball. There's a lot of, you know, it's one tunes into PBS and we see Ken Burns and various white guys in walrus mustaches and George Will and all sorts of objectionable Caucasia. Talking about the beauty of the game and the symmetry of the lines and all of this bulls**t. Unfortunately, all that bulls**t is true. It is a beautiful game, and its lines are wonderfully symmetrical, and its past is storied and lovely,

and its season follows the waxing and waning of single summer, and all of that nonsense that it turns out that, despite myself, I love. So I can understand the instinct to want to go, you know, to say, oh, I just love the beauty of the game. But sports and baseball as one of them and highlight even in its own way is all about story. It's all about narrative. It's about characters. And, you know, it is one of the only places that you can go.

And, yes, the story is going to be, you know, there are going to be familiar elements. There are going to be nine innings. Maybe there'll be 17. There probably won't be 145, but there certainly won't be, like, negative five. Like, you know more or less what you're going to get. So, like you know a Liam Neeson movie is going to feature one sort of angry phone call, like, you know sort of what to expect, but there can be much variety within it,

like a perfect pop-up. It might be four minutes. It might have a four-four beat. But there's tons of exciting stuff that can happen, you know, within that. So, but what is exciting is the story. What is exciting is the outcome. And to me, a story needs to have some sort of protagonist and some kind of some kind of antagonist. Those things can swap. Those things can be, you know, multifarious, et cetera.

But you need to have someone to latch on to, like to say that you're going to go, you know, into this like wonderful, weird story, live storytelling meeting of sports and not choose one of the sides is like saying you're going to go to the theater because you like looking at flat wood, you know, for the stage. Like that's to me that I'm calling BS on this gentleman's premise. Well, to be fair, though, the Barrymore Theater in Madison, Wisconsin, has a beautiful wide pine stage. The Barrymore Theater in Madison, Wisconsin, has a beautiful, wide pine stage. I often find it hard to perform there, as I will be doing later this month, because I often just want to stare at the stage the entire time.

And I'm sure that at least a good 40% of the audience will be going there expecting to really stand and stare at the score or pine. Those people are called subscribers. That's a better joke than mine. I was going to call them stage nerds. Here's the thing. I mean, from my perspective, the thing that's really special about sports is that it is a conflict that is both completely real and absolutely meaningless. So when you sign up for sports, you get something that is genuinely, thrillingly happening before your eyes with a built-in structure, a built-in narrative, as Nate said,

that is absolutely positively real, that you can invest yourself in as though it were real because it is. And the outcome is unknown. Yeah. But at the same time, I can hate Yasiel Puig of the Los Angeles Dodgers, which I do, for absolutely no reason other than the fact that he wears a dumb blue uniform with a dumb blue hat that says dumb LA on it.

And I hate the Dodgers. Oh, I hate the Dod LA on it. And I hate the Dodgers. Oh, I hate the Dodgers so much. I really hate the Dodgers. So the, the, the fun of it is to invest yourself in what's happening. Otherwise you lose most of what's fun about it.

I mean, it's neat to see someone do a move. And, you know, I know that for a lot of people who go to baseball games, they just like to sit in the sun and drink beer. Right. And Lord knows no one likes, no one, no one likes to watch dudes standing around more than me. But, but even I, when I go to a Kansas City Royals game, as I did earlier this year, will root for the Kansas City Royals.

City Royals game, as I did earlier this year, will root for the Kansas City Royals. I would find it hard, even if you knew nothing about either team, hard not to just naturally gravitate toward one or the other. I agree completely. Yeah, I think I find I find, you know, I find her her partner's decision here. partner's decision here. It's a completely monk-like, arbitrary position, ultimately sort of

a baseless position. Here's what I think is going on, first of all. Paul, the husband, who says he should be allowed to just go to the game to enjoy the game, there are two possibilities here. One is that he is neurologically atypical and would not read a book and get involved in the

plot of the characters, but enjoy the shape of the letters more. Do you know what I mean? That could be. Two is that he is trying to drive his wife crazy by maybe not rooting for the team she wants him to root for, or for trying to undermine her love of sports, which is something that I have learned is an act of simple cruelty. And I think that Michelle, in this case, having listened to both of you explain sports better to me and understanding it better now. I agree. I think Michelle is correct that her husband, Paul, is just a whiny nerd who should get into the game and stop resisting for the sake of resisting. Baseball, of all of the sports, is the one where you could start out rooting for one team,

and then a thousand pages later, you might say i've come around now i think uh i think jamie lannister is kind of a good guy because it has that kind of epic boring length to it but you but it is a story this is the this is conflict played out in front of you it is it is a piece of theater and to not invest in one character or another, I think would require neurological atypicalness. Otherwise, I think he's just being combative and he should stop. I'm rooting for Michelle. Go, go, go, go, Michelle. Go, go, go, go, Michelle.

Fight, fight, fight. Michelle wins. What do you think, Nate? Do you agree or disagree? I completely agree. I, you know, to me, and I also feel like to Michelle, to this man, I would like to say there is great wisdom in the sort of early scriptures of baseball. One, roots, roots, roots for the home team.

That's, I feel like, why go to a place, you know, unless, like, my dad had some guiding principles about who to root for for the neutral, and I will impart them to the Judge John Hodgman listener here. First, you root for your team if you have one. So the team that you, because they happen to be from your city, the team that you fell in love with because their players were exciting to watch or extra handsome or extra beautiful or whatever it might be. So that's tier one.

Team two is the black quarterback corollary that my dad set out during the early 1980s. He felt correctly that there were not enough black quarterbacks, that it didn't make any sense. It was only racism that kept African-Americans from playing at that position. So therefore, if you're not rooting for your own team, you should root for the black quarterback. It's essentially saying you should root for justice. So that might be you should root against the team that might be harboring the criminal or the person that abuses their wife, you know, their wife or whatever that might be. So always, so there's the justice vote,

which is a good one. And then finally, I think you root for the home team, because why not, if you're in a crowd full of people, get on board? Why not, if you're hanging out with a bunch of people and you're having beers in the sunshine and everything's lovely and you're doing that classic ultimate Hodgmanian thing of watching men stand around, why not get on board and cheer with the crowd? I'll throw in a fourth level

for situations when you're watching two out-of-town teams play each other, both of which are roughly equally just and neither of which is your team, root for the team with the prettier outfit. It never fails to root for the team with the outfit that appeals to you more. It will always be the St. Louis Cardinals because they have the most beautiful uniforms in sports. But if they're not playing, I guess it won't always be the St. Louis Cardinals. Yeah, Hartford Whalers fans know that I go gaga for sports logos,

especially of the 70s and 80s. The Hartford Whalers logo is the single best logo ever. It's like you've never listened to my podcast before. No, that came off as combative, maybe because I'm all jacked up on sports now. You mean whalerstalks.org? I love that Hartford Whalers logo so much. Here is a comparison I'm fairly confident no one has ever made.

Looking at the Hartford Whalers logo is like reading The Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. Every time I look at it, I see something new. Yeah, I left you speechless with that, didn't I? Finally, I got my podcast back from this sports talk show that you two started going on. We'll put a whale's tail on the fluke of a whale on your tiara. Have you read Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons? I've probably read it four times, but in a beautiful way every several years. So you do find new things, much like the hardwood whalers, as I've often found.

Good, good, good. And I don't have to upbraid you for not having read it. And I know Jesse is over there going, these nerds. I'm thinking about the late 50s St. Louis Cardinals logo. I really like when the two Cardinals St. Louis Cardinals logo. I really like when the two Cardinals are on each end of the bat. And they got their red, white, and blue striped socks.

It's like a seesaw. That's true. They're playing together. But the problem is, I feel like your Cardinal love and your anti-assault league suggests that you like playing the game the right way, which might make us on the opposite sides of the rooting pool. All right, no more sports talk.

Nate, I love having you on the podcast, but you've got to get out of here. You're unlocking parts of Jesse's brain that I usually try to shut down. Nate DiMeo, host of MaximumFun.org's The Memory Palace, which is a beautiful monthly story from the annals of history. There's a couple of them about sports, actually, but it's not mostly a sports show. If you hate sports, it's okay. Go listen to it. It's totally amazing, wonderful, brilliant program.

Probably the best show that Maximum Fun distributes. Thanks, Jesse. Thank you a lot. You're welcome, John. Thank you, Nate. Thanks, John. Thank you, Nate. We'll have one last MaxFun host adjudicated case when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodggman podcast max fun week edition we are being joined by some of our favorite max fun hosts to help us answer questions from the docket our next guest griffin mcelroy of my brother my brother and me uh my brother my brother i like that i like that podcast he's one of the brothers right yeah he is yeah okay is. Okay, good. No, he's me. Oh. Griffin's show, My Brother, My Brother and Me, is an advice podcast in which the advice is inerrantly wise and almost never completely inane and ridiculous. Griffin, we have something that falls directly into your wheelhouse for you.

Something that you have talked about on your show before. First of all, welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Gee, thanks, Jesse. I hope I can say some stuff that's not completely inane. Way to build me up, buttercup. If I could just say something, I also want to welcome Griffin. Ladies and gentlemen, to this podcast, if you haven't listened to my brother, my brother and me, first of all, shame on you. Of the three brothers, Griffin is perhaps the wisest, funniest, the most eloquent and certainly the fastest on his feet. And if you ask him to say a thing, he will say a thing you have never heard before and you will drive off the road and you'll be glad to do it because you will know that you are dying

with both entertainment and wisdom. You didn't think possible. Like, by the way, I hope, I hope none of you die. Sorry. What?

Like the archangel of death. I will sing you sweetly to thy grave. Yes, but I do hope you don't die, at least not before you get to hear this amazing human being say just a few words on my podcast. Thank you for having... I hope I didn't build you up too much, Griffin.

No, that you are actually the opposite of Jesse in that regard. Thank you very much. Griffin, I think you're the prettiest McElroy. There's no question. No question. No question very much. Griffin, I think you're the prettiest McElroy. Well, there's no question. No question. No question about that. Come on.

We all know that. Justin and Travis. Justin Travis will be heartbroken to hear this. Well, sorry, boys. It's the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. They're hideous elephant men compared to you. The whole world knows it.

And, you know, it's just let's just move on. Here's a question from William. My wife, Laura, and my best friend kate think it's funny to talk loudly about nerd culture video games fantasy books comic books and alike in public they know it embarrasses me i know that nerd culture is now mainstream culture but i'm about a decade older than both of them and i'm still extremely uncomfortable with letting the nerd flag fly. When I was growing up, being open about your nerdy hobbies was just asking for trouble.

It took me many years and several relationships to learn that my tastes weren't something I had to hide from loved ones. I'm happy that younger people don't worry as much about these things, but I still get uncomfortable with loud public discussions of elves and Sandor Clegane and Pern and Ultima Underworld. Judge Hodgman, will you order Laura and Kate speak sotto voce about these things in public or not at all? It's pretty brazen of them to be talking about Pern in public. Pern's serious. That's the heavy hitters. That should be reserved for muted tones

Spoken only In temples of nerddom And away from the ears The gross ears of the unclean Who wouldn't understand it And might Noogie me for talking about it I always say that it sounds like

If an Appalachian person Said the word porn. I'm glad you're here to take the more practical approach. The Appalachian approach, if you will. Well, I have formed an opinion about this case just now and about William, who brings the case forward. That is quite strong and immediate. William, who brings the case forward that is quite strong and immediate. But so I'm going to hold my tongue for a moment so that you, Griffin, may wade in to this discussion. Terrific. So you've established that there's a correct answer to this problem. And now you're going to test me to see if I how how loudly are these people speaking?

You say they're speaking extremely loudly. you say they're speaking extremely loudly why i i mean my my opinion is that you shouldn't speak loudly about anything in public for any reason at all yeah um i think that's i've i honestly griven i think that's at the heart of this question i mean i think it would it's easy to say you know be who you are believe in your et cetera. But I think there's a question of whether these people are suffering from a little bit of classic nerd lack of awareness of their actions' effect

on those around them. Perhaps they just don't, they have no control over the volume of their voice. In general. Hey, it happens! Yeah. I just want to talk about anne mccaffrey right now

waiter waiter can i can i get some more roles and would you like to talk about ursula k leguin um i think jesse you're missing a critical point, though, which is that William writes, my wife, Laura, and my best friend, Kate. First of all, this guy's married and his best friend's a woman. There's a lot of tension going on in this situation. This is an unstable triad. Well, there is now. Now there is tension. You have to call it out.

They think it's funny. Let me just break. They think it's funny to loudly talk about nerd culture in public, which suggests to me that they're not nerds. And, and this, and, and my suspicion is cemented.

That's not a, that's not a way to say anything. My suspicion is confirmed by this last point. They know it embarrasses me. They are doing this with purpose, not because they just like to yell out loud. They are trying to embarrass their nerd husband friend. I see. So they are trying to inflict emotional and social harm upon this person.

Are you suggesting that they are perhaps a bully or maybe even a jock? Or even worse, a cyber bully. The question is, the question is out there, I think. Did you marry a jock? God, it's so hard to tell. If it happens in a text message, it's cyber bullying. Well, no, I'm not talking about the... I guess when people talk to each other out loud in public,

that's not cyber in nature at all, Jesse. What about if it happens on Snapchat? That's cyberbullying. Absolutely. I read about it in Newsweek. What if the best friend or wife, one of them is a cyborg? Then it's cyberbullying again. Oh, and that would explain the not being able to control the volume of their voice.

That dial might be broken off. That's true. That's true. That's true. Because all cyborgs come with a volume control knob. Of course they do. It's a standard issue. What kind of cyborg doesn't have a volume control knob? It's on that chest panel.

Yeah, I didn't have half my body updated with new technology, so I couldn't control the sound of my voice with a knob. I like the feel of a knob. I don't want a digital control no it's not right that it's retro car manufacturers trying to sell that it's just the one screen and everything air conditioning everything you do through the screen who no thanks nobody likes that yeah exactly i just want to dial in my favorite oldie station and listen to my shanana i'm going for mouthfeel All right, that's gross.

Where are you on this subject now that I've pointed out that Laura and Kate are bullying William? That they're jocks. For me, it's just the volume of the discussion, regardless of subject matter. I think it's impolite to shout for any reason in public. I think the only person who is allowed to speak loudly about Ultima Underworld is Richard Garriott,

creator of the Ultima franchise, which he created and made enough money from to go to space. He is the most fascinating man currently living tell me more about him because i'm thinking i don't know about this guy and i'm thinking it might chase out my shana knob session there's a terrific documentary i believe on on on netflix uh which is great because you don't have to pay anything for it whoa whoa they don't sponsor this podcast dude uh i did i say netflix i meant some some online service no i'm a i'm a subscriber to netflix and i'm glad to know where it is but i don't need to be hearing you sneaking in little endorsements i have a secret sponsorship really personally

it did not go through max fund i went through back channels yeah this this this richard gar his dad was... I'm only doing this because the guys from Hulu are right behind me right now. Sure. His dad was an astronaut, but he was too feeble and sickly to be an astronaut. Right. And he has a weird ponytail. And they don't let those people become astronauts. Sure. So he invented this video game franchise, made a bunch of millions of dollars, and then he went to Russia. He was like, how much money? They were like, six million dollars. He was like, here you go. And then they said, you got to get rid of that ponytail first.

It's a space hazard. That thing comes off there in zero gravity. It could go down somebody's throat. Is it a long ponytail, or is it a little tiny middle-aged man ponytail? It's long and tiny. It's long lengthwise, but so, so narrow, like a a pencil you can't have that it's the girth that matters you can't have that in a weightless

environment exactly i saw i i recently saw a talk given by a well-known canadian astronaut and he was talking about living on the International Space Station for months at a time. And that is a co-educational tour of duty. And even if it weren't, I realized that at that length of time, there have got to be people hooking up on the space station. Oh, absolutely. It has to be happening. I've talked to Mary Roach about this, the author of Packing for Mars, which features an entire chapter on sex acts in space. Sure. Well, this is what I, so I approached Canadian astronaut afterward and I said, do we know on record who is the first couple to have Congress in space?

And he said, it has never happened. have Congress in space? And he said, it has never happened. And I looked into his Canadian eyes and he utterly convinced me, but I think he's lying. No, there have been many rendezvous with Rama up there. Keep your voice down, sir.

I don't, I'm uncomfortable with revealing information about our weird tribe we might be approached by bullies at any moment to this is my so this is what i want to say about william i judge william very harshly you no way you're going to get this court to play along with your self-loathing. You're sitting there going, I still feel uncomfortable. I still feel like we ought to be quiet about the things that we love.

No way, dude. There are people getting loud about sports. There are people getting loud about their favorite tumblers. And by loud, I'm speaking metaphorically here. You can openly, because I agree with Griffin, you shouldn't be shouting about your weird things. and the sports people really have to take it down

oh my god why do they get why do they feel like they get to just yell about everything all the time well because they've almost always had four beers yeah true i think it's fine to get drunk and talk about rendezvous with rama with your friends i don't I am not going to play along with your self-loathing. I am not going to tell nerds who are legitimately excited about a thing in the comfort of their own home or at a meal that they're paying for to keep their voices down and not make themselves essentially what you fear targets for noogies. But what I think is happening here is that kate and laura are figuratively noogieing poor william because they know he hates himself and they like to bring that out in him and there's some part of some weird role playing that they're doing in their unstable romantic

triad it's some kind of game that they're trying to implicate us in i think but truthfully i think that they're i think that for reasons of we're going on william's subjective assessment of their loudness they may not be speaking particularly loudly at all maybe not in a volume that you would find offensive griffin but if they are being too loud they should keep it down because we're all in a public place and they should also stop being cruel because cruelty is bullying is bullying uh even if it's among nerds i've learned that the hard way i'm sorry elliot kalin welcome to the maximum fun network there i said it jesse are you happy i'm happy that i'm that was a beef that has needed squashing for for so for so so long what will the tabloids write about now no it wasn't a beat it wasn't a beef griffin it wasn't if it were a beef it would mean him and me coming to blows in in in

in words in verbal sparring in physical sparring it would be like we both have a point to make this was me bullying a dude a A one-way beef situation. It was a one-way beef. I was beefing on him. I was just, I was bullying him and throwing my shoes at him in the halls of the Daily Show because at first I thought it was a fun meta joke to have one nerd bully another nerd. And then I realized I was a little bit bigger than him. I could get away with it.

And it felt great. I suddenly knew what a bully felt like. And it's awesome. You also realize that one nerd bullying another nerd is just, you can just shorthand that to the internet. You can just call that Twitter now. Yeah. Now, well, that's part of the reason why I stopped.

First, I realized I was becoming a monster. I hated myself. And also, it's been done. But then. Hashtag Gamergate. Right. I hated myself. And also it's been done, but then hashtag Gamergate, right? The other, the other part of it is that, um, uh, Elliot a, uh, became the head writer of the daily show. So de facto, my boss, and suddenly I could not, I couldn't, I just became a cringing coward around him. I

couldn't bring it up. I could, I couldn't raise the ire in me to bully him because I was, even though we're friends, I was in some vestigial way afeard for my status. I even gave him this giant Nerf gun as a tribute to this powerful man in my life. And then he got this Flophouse podcast with his other two nerd friends, whom I can still kind of refer to derisively sure dan dan mccoy and that other guy whose name i refuse to learn because i'm a monster because that makes me feel fun like a bully but now that podcast is racing up the charts leaving old judge john hodgman in the dust and now he's come over here to maximum fun to my to my house. And that, well, Jesse's house where I rent a room. But he's come over to this house and he's taking, he's bullying me now.

Turnabout is fair play, Griffin. That's what I'm saying to you, youth of America. That's how, you stand in for youth for me. I appreciate that. It's appropriate. It's all, we're just one big, happy, nerd bullying Ouroboros here on the Maximum Fun Network. Griffin's part of Generation Pokemon.

That's true. And I was going to say, it's germane to this conversation, but it's so liberating when you learn to accept the nerdy part of yourself and learn to make that an outwardly facing part of yourself. Like, say, for instance, when you learn to have the courage inside yourself to play a Pokemon game on an airplane next to strangers.

Yeah. William, you need to get over your cringing self-hatred, and you also need to turn to Laura and Kate, and don't tell them, shut up about nerd stuff. Tell them, stop being mean to me, or I'm going to divorce one of you and marry the other one. And that'll certainly upset the balance. Every 60 days. Tell them, stop being mean to me or I'm going to divorce one of you and marry the other one. And that'll certainly upset the balance every 60 days.

That was a genuine laugh. The first of my life. It's so hard to tell. Thank you so much, Griffin, for being on the show. Thank you for having me and saying, saying all those incredibly kind things. Uh, and that's,

that's going, it's going on my epitaph. Wow. That was the first thing that came to mind. What's that's going on the epitaph. That's probably not great. Well, I did say some nice things in order to set you up for failure.

Unfortunately for comedy, you failed to fail. Well done. And I, and I hope, and I, and I hope you don't die soon. Me too. Good luck. Griffin McElroy. to fail well done and i and i hope and i and i hope you don't die soon me too good luck griffin mcelroy thanks for joining us on the judge john hodgman podcast griffin is the host of my brother

my brother and me an advice podcast for the modern era you can find it at maximumfun.org along with song exploder from rishikesh her way and the memory palace from Nate DeMayo and lots of other shows including the flop house really Jesse come on the flop house the hit podcast from from writers

of the daily show and another guy it's a man I started listening to that one this past weekend and it's so great that I think I'm gonna have to take another podcast out of the rotation although come on for kindness sake i will not say which one you guys you know you're ganging up on me you're like kate and laura it's actually throwing shade don't worry your your spot's fine well you know what i'm saying um Our producer is Julia Smith.

Our editor is Mark McConville. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHo. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. And it's MaxFunWeek.

Get involved. Go to MaximumFun.org slash MaxFunWeek. And we'll see you at the meetups all across this great nation. Go to MaximumFun.org slash MaxFunMeetups.

Those are Sunday night from 7 to 9 p.m. local time. That's Sunday, October 19th. Come to Madison, Wisconsin on that very night. See me at the Barrymore Theater where I will be doing all new comedy, newer than if you saw me last time at the Barrymore Theater, with Bill Corbett and Kevin Murphy. And because it's MaxFun meetup night, we'll do a special MaxFun meetup.

Watch my Twitter and Tumblr for the announcement. And I haven't asked them yet, but I think Bill and Kevin will be fine with you getting a DNA swab from them if you want. And if you're in Japan, I'll be there on my honeymoon, so please do not speak to or look at me. Thank you very much.

Happy honeymoon. Oh, thank you. It hasn't happened yet. All my future appearances, and there are many to come in October in such cities as Chicago, Milwaukee, Akron, Ohio, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia. And then in November in New England, Burlington, Vermont, Lebanon, New Hampshire, Hartford, Connecticut, Northampton, Massachusetts,

are all up and posted and ticket information is online at johnhodgman.com slash tour. I'll be hanging out at all of these events to sign and talk afterward, but only one night, Madison, Wisconsin, will I do the official MaxFun meetup because that's MaxFun Week meetup night. That's all for this week's Judge John Hodgman podcast. On behalf of Julia and Mark and John, I'm Jesse Thorne.

We'll talk to you next time. MaximumFun.org Comedy talk to you next time.