Judge John Hodgman - New Schemes to Violate the Social Contract

Episode Date: May 10, 2017

Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn are in chambers this week to clear the docket! They discuss disputes about children in bars, wearing sweatpants to work, movie theater garbage and more! Plus a listener letter about virtual reality and the Renaissance Faire! 

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week to clear the docket. With me, as always, the all-wise and all-powerful Judge John Hodgman. Opening my third eye in the middle of my tongue now and allowing it to see into your souls. I am your Judge John Hodgman here to judge you with my eye tongue. Also, by the way, speaking of eyes, all eyes, well, not all, but some eyes were on us.

Here's a little time warp for those of you who saw me and Jesse both on the periscope right before we recorded this one. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, I had fun. I had fun with John taunting me on my own periscope. I wasn't taunting you. I just thought it would be fun to do the podcast that way with you talking and me commenting.

Well, let's clear the docket, John, because that's what we're here to do. We can start with a letter from AJ. A few weeks ago, I used a profane word at a local dive bar after 10 p.m. A man with two children under the age of 10 came over to our table and told us to clean up our language. I believe that if a parent or guardian brings children to a bar, any adult language they overhear is fair game. My friend sided with the man and felt that he had the right to ask us to be more conscious of our language. Was the responsibility on me to survey my surroundings more carefully?

Well, I have two stories that might illuminate my point of view on that. One is a story in which I, John Hodgman, was having lunch at the local diner here in Brooklyn while being visited by our mutual friend, Mr. Paul F. Tompkins, the very famous and excellent comedian. It was the middle of a Sunday. Well, it wasn't even a Sunday. It was the middle of a weekday. We were not alone in the diner, and Paul and I were talking back and forth a little bit. Now, we're both gentlemen. Paul is a very dapper fellow, and we speak good and tend to present as dudes who would not curse a whole lot we don't curse on this podcast for example but we're also grown-ups and at one point paul says a couple of

f words in perfectly in the context of a conversation we're we were talking about hugging and kissing. Right. And a gentleman turns around at the next booth and he said, could you please watch your language? Because he was sitting there with his kids. And boy, were Paul and I completely and totally embarrassed. And we apologized. Story two. Flash forward to very, very fun day, Chicago, 2017. Jesse Thorne could not attend to be my friend and bailiff because he had some baby or something. Yeah, roughly speaking. guest bailiff and gene gray and i did our sound check and we went to sit at the bar in the restaurant of the very very fun day compound at thalia hall in chicago and we're having some scrambled eggs and we discovered dan mccoy sitting next to us at this bar talking to a gentleman whose name i regret that i cannot remember we'll call him kurt and just call him stewart wellington it wasn't no it wasn't a flopsy it was a it was a different person who i quickly realized uh was just a fan a fan of the

flopsies and after a while dan decided to leave and uh kurt sidled up next to me and Gene, his second and third best maximum fun friends, I guess. Gene and I were having a conversation. I'll tell you what this conversation was about. It was about a certain set of dark crystal trading cards that I had found at a flea market that I had given to someone else and Gene was really mad at me that I had not thought to give her these dark crystal trading cards.

Because she is a big fan of the dark crystal, which I did not know. And I said, holy heck, Jean, I didn't realize that. And she said, curse yeah, I am a huge fan of the dark crystal. And I said, well, poop me. I really pooping apologize. Because we're grownups. Those are not the words that I said. well, poop me. I really pooping apologize. Because we're grownups. Those are not the words that I said. I said other words.

And Kurt, sitting next to me, a lovely young man, said under his breath, this is certainly a different side of Judge John Hodgman than I've ever seen before. And I could not have been happier. To let Kurt know that I sometimes say strong language because I'm a grown-up sitting at a bar. What are the differences between these two situations? They were both during the daytime.

True. In one case, I was at a diner. In the other case, I was at a bar. Bars are meant for cussing in. And also for having swingy doors at the door. And also for shooting at the piano player's feet. No. What do you do?

Well, you do something or another. I bring my hatchet there and bust up the ale barrels. That's why they call you Jesse Hatchet. Yep. There's some stuff that goes down in a bar that is not for children for example the serving of alcohol it's usually now look i live in park slope you think people aren't bringing their kids into bars around park slope of course they are the kids just tell their parents i want to go in there and the parents go, yes, master. But the context of a bar is by its definition, a refuge for adult people.

Now, if someone had come up to me during very, very fun day and said, pardon me, Jean Gray and John Hodgman, I noticed you're having a little malort with your scrambled eggs and perhaps you have lost your mind and you are swearing in front of my 10 year old, I wouldn't, I would have said, do you know what? You're absolutely right. Cause this is the middle of the day that does make a difference, doesn't it? But in this case, AJ was in that bar after 10 PM at night. That guy should not have had his children in a bar after 10 PM at night. at night. So I say, friend that guy. No way.

Take your kids home. Don't go to bars with your under 10-year-old kids after 10 p.m. That's the 10 and 10 rule. A classic 10 and 10. So those are my narratives. Is this a normal thing for children to be in bars? I've only been in a bar as an adult and as a baby when my father was an alcoholic. Those are the only two times I've ever been in a bar. He's been in recovery for a very long time since I was a toddler. So I'm grateful he's a recovering alcoholic. But I feel

like you can't get into a bar if you're a child, right? I've had trouble getting performers who are under 21 into bars to perform. Yeah, I would say that there is a little bleed through here in Brooklyn. During the daytime, a lot of bars will serve a brunch. And young parents who are desperate to prove that they're still cool will bring their kids into this bar and have a drink along with their eggs. Just like me and Jean Grey did, except I had abandoned my children, left them behind in New York. I was in Chicago. But at nighttime, no, no way. I don't know what bar would let kids in. So, AJ, you're absolutely right, and your friend is absolutely wrong. Let the bar be the refuge of grownups, everybody.

Let the bar be the refuge of grownups, everybody. I thought it was poignant that he mentioned that it was after 10 p.m. It suggested to me that at some point he had taken a course designed to allow him to legally operate a broadcast radio station because he knew exactly when safe harbor hours began. And for those of you who are wondering, I did manage to find another pack of dark crystal cards that I did give to Jean Grey. So we are now friending friends again. Thank goodness. Here's something from Becky.

My husband wants to wear his sweatpants to work, which I think... May I rule now? May I rule now? Which I think should never be acceptable. He works in an office. He claims it's very casual. I still think sweatpants are an indoor-only clothing item. The situation worsened when I got him bedroom slippers for Christmas,

which he thinks he can wear out because they have a rubber sole. He usually takes pride in himself for being a stylish person, so I don't know why he wants to wear sweatpants and slippers to work. Well, I think she can probably figure out why he wants to wear sweatpants and slippers to work. Well, I think she can probably figure out why he wants to wear sweatpants and slippers to work. He wants to signal to the world that he's given up. Well, maybe he works in a company that manufactures naps. You don't know. What's interesting is that he takes pride in himself for being a stylish person or so Becky claims. Yet he's still doing this. If he takes any pride in his appearance whatsoever, he's not going to wear sweatpants out. I mean, this is a given, right? This is a joke. She can't be serious.

Judge Hodgman, I have to put on my professional menswear expert hat here for a moment, if you don't mind. I hope you will. And I trust that it is a sharp and tailored hat and not one of those elastic waistband hats. Exactly. I have to say there has been sort of parallel with the trend towards what are called jogger pants. There has been a propensity to wear sweatpants outside. There are pants that have a slimmer, more, I don't want to say tailored look because they're not tailored, but they look more like a choice than like a white flag. Yes. Or a Heather Gray flag, as the case may be. And I understand wearing those out of the house while I do not

condone it. So, in other words, I think that the fashion times have moved beyond the George Costanza era. However, work is a... I mean, like, maybe if he's wearing really specific ones and he's, like, a junior copywriter at an ad agency where everyone dresses crazy.

Yes. I agree with you that fashions do shift and change. And I remember, I don't know if you know this, Jesse, but I had a brief professional experience working with an advertising agency. Yeah, sure. You worked as an advertising spokesmodel. I was a personal computer for a period of time. And we mostly filmed in LA and the advertising agency was and is in LA. was and is in LA.

And already in LA, your standards of what outdoor wear, what appropriate outdoor wear consists of is very different than New York, in part because it's so beautiful and sunny all the time. It's called the California casual look. Yeah, it's basically like you get invited to a formal dinner. You're lucky if your host is wearing tube socks and nothing else. Like that would be an okay look for Yeah. It's basically like you get invited to a formal dinner. You're lucky if your host is wearing tube socks and nothing else. Like that's, that would be an okay look for dinner. There have been ambassadorial events that have featured jorts in Los Angeles. There you go. There you go. That's

white tie in LA. And, and particularly in advertising, those guys were, were pushing a lot of, uh, boundaries in terms of professional wear. And it seemed like all these 35 to 55 year old men had to dress like skate rats from the 80s. Yeah. If that's what's going on in your husband's world, then I could say, well, you know what? Jesse has identified certain new athletic gear that is a little bit more acceptable outside of the gym or what have you. I get that. I'm not totally stuffy. You know about athleisure. Yeah, but what gave that away was now he wants to wear slippers.

Yeah, that's what they call in poker a tell. Yeah, yeah. He's just going all loosey-goosey. In any case, it's not necessarily what is acceptable contextual to one's office. It is what is acceptable to you as a person. And I don't want to bog this all down in narratives, although I'm America's favorite storyteller. But I went out to dinner with my wife and our friends, Jonathan Colton and his wife, Christine. The four of us to Keene's Steakhouse, formerly known as Keene's Chop House, one of my favorite restaurants in Manhattan.

It is an old school steakhouse with pipes on the old pipes on the wall because it used to be a pipe smoking club. And we would routinely get a little dressed up to go out to dinner, put on some shoes, jacket and tie. It was a nice opportunity to dress formally, even though about 50% of the guys in there were wearing shorts and untuckets every time he went in there. It was terrible, all these bros. But like, guys would go in there and he would eat dinner in the dining room with backward baseball cap on that i wouldn't stoop to that but then this is the last time we went i got a little i was starting to feel you know i got a little older because time is passing and because of my

stress eating after the election and because of my heel spurs that i developed out of nowhere probably because i'm going insane and getting older. It certainly didn't feel like going to dinner wearing a hard shoe, and I didn't really want to test if any of my jackets still fit around my big old fat belly. So I decided I was going to wear a nice shirt, nice pants, and some very clean, brand new Saucony Jazz sneakers, and I was not going to apologize for it, because I knew that most of those guys in there don't care at all about the dress code.

And I went in there and you know what? I looked good, especially since right across from me was a guy eating his $5,000 steak or whatever, wearing a hockey jersey. But one thing I didn't do, one place where I held the line. Wait, hold on, Judge Hodgman. Spill the beans.

Was it Kevin Smith or early Snoop Dogg? It was just a New York Rangers fan having a little pre-theater dinner. Was it Mark Messier, but he was upset that no one recognized him? I don't think that he was an actual hockey player.

I don't remember the name of what jersey he was wearing. All I knew it was not a Hartford Wailers jersey. So I turned aside and discussed. But one thing I did not wear and would not ever wear, even though I went really super cash for this evening dinner. And I kind of obviously have mixed feelings about it. I did not wear an elastic waistband pant. This is where I think the line must be drawn.

If you are going outside in the world, you need to know your pant size and own it. That's called being a grown-up, not being an infant, not giving up. Hang in there. Woo! Some big stories, you guys. Big narratives.

Regular Stephen Tobolowsky over in here. Now that we've had our steak dinner, let's take a quick break before we come back for dessert. We'll be back with more on the Judge John Hodgman podcast in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to

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Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket. Here's something from Eddie. My girlfriend Katie and I go out to eat together often. We've come to a disagreement as to when we should order our entrees. I believe you should order the entree after the appetizer arrives. That way, we don't have the appetizer and main meal back to back. Katie believes that we should be able to order them at the same time, especially if we already

know what we're getting. If I win the case, I would like to order the appetizer my way. If not, we'll order it her way. So he says, this way we don't have to eat the appetizer and main meal back to back. I mean, that is what happens. You have the appetizer and then you have the main meal. You know what he's probably doing? You know about the Taco Bell fourth meal? He's probably putting that in between the appetizer and the main. So when he orders the appetizer, he also orders a chalupa.

He says, bring the appetizer first, then the chalupa. And when the chalupa comes out, we'll order the mains. And those can come out after the chalupa. He's like a hobbit. He has appetizers, then second appetizers, then elevenses, and then entree. Exactly. Some Tolkien heads know what I'm talking about. He wants a break.

know what I'm talking about. He wants a break. He wants to order the appetizer, then have the waiter or service person come back and then take his order for entree and then wait and chew the figurative fat at that point with his girlfriend, Katie. Do I understand that correctly? That seems to be the case. Yeah. I mean, he's got a scheme. There's no doubt about that. Well, that's unusual, isn't it? For a guy to write into Judge John Hodgman, who's got a scheme there's no doubt about that well that's unusual isn't it for a guy to write into judge john hodgman who's got a scheme for a new and better way of doing things finally what do you think jesse i think that if you're paying for or leaving so that they can put someone else at your table. That's how restaurants run as a business. So they're glad to bring you course after course of wine or whatever or bring you dessert after dinner because those are things that they're selling you. And when you pay the price for the food, you're also paying for the place that you sit. You're renting space at the table.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, yeah, but just to be eddy for a moment, why should I let you rush me along for my meal? I'm paying for the meal. I should take as long as I want. Social convention. We've all agreed that this is how it works. Yeah, but my name's Eddie.

And I want it different. I think we're finding out what would happen if I was the judge in 60% of Judge John Hodgman cases, I would have a full emotional breakdown five minutes in. Where I just yell, social convention, because that's how we do it. We all agreed to make it easier for us. Yes, but there are many social conventions that need to be challenged, Jesse. Here's the truth. Eddie, stop it. Judgment is this.

truth. Eddie, stop it. Judgment is this. If the server in a restaurant says to you, would you guys like to order some appetizers while you think about your main course? Go for it. Yep. That happens. It happens. And that's the signal to you that the restaurant is cool with it. And it might be part of the way that they have built their business. Maybe they're upselling you. Maybe they're getting you to order a second appetizer that the the legendary second appetizer of middle earth maybe they think if you order some nachos right off the top you'll come back and then order uh escargot and then your beef bourguignon is a weird restaurant that i've described and then your loaded tater tots and then your korean fried

chicken man this restaurant sounded real good right now i think it's called tall day and it's on the corner of 7th avenue and 12th street and park slope i'll see you there uh and you know that's a place where they where it's like order everything all at once and we'll bring it out to you when it comes out of the kitchen. Every restaurant has things organized a little bit different. The default that you should presume is that if you're in a place that offers coursed service, that is to say you order maybe a cocktail or a drink, then you order your appetizer and your entree together and they are paced out to you, that's because the kitchen has figured out what,

how it works best for them and most efficiently. And if it's a good restaurant, you won't feel rushed. You'll have your appetizer. You'll have a little time to say hi to your girlfriend, Katie, quietly, maybe order another drink. And then that entree will come out in a well-timed fashion that will work for you and for the restaurant. And if you refuse to order your entree until after your appetizer is served, you're slowing it down. And maybe you figure you're buying yourself some time at the table, but what you're really doing is inconveniencing,

A, the restaurant, which you don't care about because you're like, oh, I'm paying them money anyway. But you're inconveniencing another diner who has also presumably made a reservation that you're not giving up that table for. And what if you were that diner? Because alternate universe Eddie and alternate universe Katie were really dilly-dallying over there because alternate universe Eddie had his own idea,

which was that he wasn't going to order his entree until a full hour had passed after his appetizer because he has digestive issues. You know, I was at a restaurant recently, very fancy restaurant. I was invited to go there by the great former Daily Show writer, Rich Blomquist, and great former Daily Show writer, Sam Means. And Rich is incredibly super-duper better half Kristen Schaal,

the actress and former Daily Show correspondent. We had a little reunion at a very fancy restaurant. Sam Means reminded me of the categorical imperative. Immanuel Kant, the philosopher, the categorical imperative had two parts. I don't remember what categorical imperative part one was. Part two was basically, imagine if everyone did what you're talking about something that might seem moral for you in an instant if were applied universally how would that work out terribly as in this case then don't do it it's called categorical imperative part two uh one of the sequels to be better than the original definitely more memorable you're wrong wrong, Eddie. Sound of a gavel. Here's something from Ben.

My girlfriend Renata and I regularly find ourselves in social situations where one or both of us want to leave, but neither of us feel like we should be the instigator. I think it should be her, because she always drives. She feels that it should be left up to the person closest to the event. For example, if we're meeting my family for dinner, I should be the one to the person closest to the event. For example, if we're meeting my family for dinner, I should be the one to send the signal. I would like an order for Renata to be responsible for signaling our departure from all events.

I have a message for Ben. Grow up. Ha! Grow up, Ben. Stop being shy. Learn to drive. Start taking responsibility for your own desires. You are ready to leave an event. It's not easy. It's not easy to be bold enough to say,

it's time for me to go. Well, I'm sorry, we've got to get going. You know, especially if you're shy, as clearly Ben is. He wants to have his girlfriend run all the interference with him, even with his own family. That's terrible. That's a terrible thing to ask of Renata, Ben. If you're out to dinner with your own family and Renata goes, well, it's time for us to leave. Guess what your family is going to talk about this minute you guys leave the table? How Renata is such a weird, controlling person and that Ben obviously wanted to stay. When the truth is, Ben, you hate your family and wanted to leave immediately. That's my conjecture.

I'm not sure that you hate your family, but you know what I'm saying. Seems likely. Yeah. If you want to go, say something. Own the truth of your own feelings and don't feel like you can't say them. And certainly within the context of your own family.

If you are the closest person to the host, not physically, but socially and emotionally, within the context of your own family, if you are the closest person to the host, not physically, but socially and emotionally, then no one leaves until you say so. That's just the way it goes. Renata always drives. Learn to drive. Learn to drive manual, Ben.

Enough already. Do you disagree with me, Jesse? No, and I think that they, I think even the person closest rule, like this is all like this weird, just if you think it's time to go, just say so. And your partner should be close enough with you that they value your feelings in the situation enough that they back you up immediately. You should never be in the situation where one of you says, listen, I think it's about time for us to go. And the other one says, I disagree. Well, I mean, there may be times when there's something going on and the other person says, I think we need to stay a little bit longer, but I hear you. Yeah. I mean, they could have a signal that's when in situations where they want to check in about it rather than just proclaim it. You know, they could have a classic swipe across the chest for take and, you know, grab the bill of the cap for swing away.

But like that doesn't in a situation where one of them wants to leave. They should feel comfortable enough to politely excuse themselves from a social event. And the other one should be supportive of them. And yes, they should both know how to drive just in case one of them wants to stay somewhere that the other one wants to leave. Well, that's another that I mean, maybe Ben knows how to drive. But the fact that Renata always drives, that is a red flag in this relationship. If only there were telephone numbers you could call that brought a car to where you were

that was willing to drive you, for a price, mind you, to the place that you would like to be. Right. This is the red flag, right? She always drives, and he wants her to always instigate leaving, even when it's his own family. Dudes are tempted to marry their mommies. This is a universal temptation, I think.

Men, like women, are attracted to all different types of people at different contexts of their lives, but there's a certain type of dude, and I'm not saying it's you, Ben, but you're checking off all the boxes, who likes to marry or get into a relationship with a woman who's going to drive him around and take all the responsibility and be the grown-up and tell his own real mommy and daddy

it's time for us to leave so that he doesn't have to do any of that hard stuff. No one has a good time being in a relationship with their mom or dad or their surrogate mom or dad, as it were. So Ben, if you're hearing me, if Renata is your mommy, stop that. That's no good for you. That's no good for Renata. You don't want Renata at that family dinner when you go out to that restaurant

to be the one saying, sorry, everybody, I'm shutting this down. You don't want to make Renata the Yoko Ono of your family. It's terrible. This is the sound of a gavel. Grow up, Ben. That said, if Renata is willing to cover all the walls in a small German town with pictures of butts, that should be supported. Yeah. That's sort of the good part of her being the Yoko Ono of your family. Yeah. And I'm sorry. You know what good part of her being the Yoko Ono of your family. Yeah. And I'm sorry.

You know what? Good point, Jesse. Yoko Ono is an amazing artist and an astonishing individual whose name should not be associated with the slander that was put on her by a bunch of dudes who were mad that the Beatles broke up because they couldn't hack it anymore, being around each other all the time because people grow up, especially in intense situations, they have to get away from each other from time to time. So I apologize to Yoko Ono, but I do not apologize to Ben. We'll be back with a letter about virtual reality

and the Renaissance Fair when we continue our self-parody in just a minute. continue our self-parody in just a minute. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm.

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week, we're clearing the docket. We've got a dispute from Brandon about movie theater trash. Uh-huh. He wants to know the following. How responsible is a moviegoer for cleanup after the movie ends? Some of my colleagues believe that the theater should be treated like a sports stadium,

where it's regular practice for food garbage to be left on the floor. Others contend it's basic etiquette to clean up after yourselves at the theater. Also, some in the office say you should only clean up garbage if it's from food you snuck into the theater. Does the practice vary based on the food source? We await your judgment. Whoa. What a bro-y office. They're just hanging out in their jogger pants trying to hash some stuff out.

Yeah, coming up with some new schemes to violate the social contract. Trying to hash some stuff out. Yeah, coming up with some new schemes to violate the social contract. Well, actually, the only food you should clean up is the food you sneak in. I don't know why I made that bro sound like a tired vampire. Apologize, bro. Yeah, all these guys are going to sports stadiums and movies together all the time and then coming up with new schemes to violate the social contract. Jesse Thorne, I have to ask you a question.

You made a sports reference right before the break when we were talking about Renata and Ben about signaling. Take or swing away? Yeah. And I truly was totally confused about what you were talking about. That's how catchers signal to pitchers in baseball? Close. That would be how a third base coach would signal to the hitter whether or not he should swing on the next pitch. Got it. Okay. But I truly was lost. And in the spirit of Judge John Hodgman, I am not

going to ask you to not make such esoteric or not even esoteric, but regular sports references. I'm going to better myself to learn those things. That's on me. It's a challenge to me. To be fair, I immediately regretted referring to former New York Rangers legend or current New York Rangers legend Mark Messier. And you managed to either catch or at least paper over the fact that you'd missed that one. Well, I had to do a lot of hard work in that moment, not to not to know who Mark Messier was, because I knew who it was. But I had to almost physically restrain myself from making some kind

of Messier messier pun about the way that guy was dressed. I backdoored it right there. Got it in there. It's part of my gradual werewolf-like transformation into a weird dad. Exactly the worst kind of guy I don't ever want to be. That joke was written on your heart and you had to read it. But as someone who appreciates sports, you, Jesse, do you have a comment about this stipulation that in sports stadiums, it is regular practice for food garbage to just be left on the floor? Yes, that's absolutely true.

Yeah, that's absolutely true. Because there's no garbage can. You would have to go on a hike to find the garbage can to throw something away. But why don't you just take your garbage with you as you leave the event? Like there's no garbage can next to you in a movie theater either. You just take your stuff with you after you're done the movie. In the movie theater, on your way out, there's a garbage can right there that's specifically for this purpose. And there is no such thing in sports stadia? No, I don't know where there's a garbage can in a sports stadium.

I mean, I guess there must be garbage cans in sports stadiums, but I don't know where they are. All right. They're not at the top of the stairs. Like, if there was a garbage can at the top of the stairs that said, for your food garbage, like there is in a movie theater. Mm-hmm. that said, for your food garbage, like there is in a movie theater. You know how these days usually the movie theater's entrance kind of points directly at the screen, but then there's seats directly in front of you and like a wall, and so you have to go around the side?

So right there at that point, right in the middle, just where the outside door meets the inside of the theater, there is usually a bank of trash cans that are there for you to put your stuff in while you're walking out the door. Yeah. Yeah. So, first of all, with regard to your weird sports subculture, put some garbage cans out, sports stadia. Come on. But as far as movies go, I think that there was definitely a convention when I was growing up in Brookline and Boston that you would leave your old popcorn things on the floor, you know, your half-empty tubs or whatever.

And one day I looked down at the floor and I'm like, what am I doing? Another human being has to stoop down and get that. of the Judge John Hodgman motto, one of many, be mindful of the work that you leave for others, which is a nicer way of saying, Brandon and your bros, don't make other people pick up your garbage, creeps. Clean it up.

I don't know about what's going on in that sports stadia, but if you're in a movie theater, I think it is gross to leave behind trash for another human being. That is basically saying that another human being is trash. And you know what? I bet all those bros are talking about, well, if you sneak it in, then that's not part of the arrangement

that you have with the theater because that's not garbage that they produced initially. And just stop it. You know, you know that it's wrong. You know it's wrong to make someone else pick up your trash. Don't make up an excuse. Just pick up your trash and throw it away. It is so easy to do. Oh, but they're paid to do that. So I don't see why it's my job. And I'm paying such a premium on the popcorn and the soda fountain. Stop it. Stop it. Stop making up excuses for being a creep. Don't be a creep. Try that. You'll feel better. No system of contingencies and weird rules that you come up with to excuse creepy behavior will make you feel as good as

simply not being a creep do you disagree with me jesse about this in the in the movie theater stuff i'm standing and applauding right now oh thank you very much the only reason you can't hear it is my hands aren't miked i'm we had to stop miking jesse's hands because they're they're so powerful and every now and then his retractable claws would come out and they would go snicked. So he had to take the mics off. Did you know that Jesse Thorne is a Wolverine? Oh, by the way, that's the sound of a gavel. What else do we got? Well, we have a follow-up letter about virtual reality, episode 303, Oculus MIFT.

You remember that one? That was a good one. Matt and Amber. Matt wanted to build a holodeck-style virtual reality room in the main bedroom of his apartment that he shares with Amber. They already have VR, but he wanted to take all the beds and furniture and bureaus and dressers and mirrors out of that

room paint it black and put red lines on it like the holodeck from star trek the next generation and make it a devoted vr room because it was the biggest room in the house and i said he should absolutely do that but do it in the basement because that's bigger and he could get over his fear of centipedes as well so what does this letter have to say? Well, the first one is from Alex, who says that he or she went to the Renaissance Fair in the 1990s and says the best moment by far was when a group of 10 or 12 humanoids and one Klingon, all in nicely tailored, authentic looking Star Trek uniforms arrived and gazed about in awe. They were clearly pretending to be on the holodeck, visiting a faux VR version of King

Arthur's court in real life. It was truly a thing of beauty. Oh, LARPing within LARPing. This is something I've heard of but never seen, and it is truly awe-inspiring. You've heard of this happening? Yeah. You've never heard of people pretending to be going to visit the Renaissance Fair from the holodeck? I've definitely heard of that. Maybe I don't listen enough to The Greatest Generation, a popular podcast about Star Trek The Next Generation. Or you don't listen enough to my AP US history teacher, Miss Letterer. So it goes back that far?

All the way to Letterer. People have been dressing up like Star Trek The Next Generation characters and then going to Ren Fairs and then pretending that they are Star Trek people in the holodeck going to an old timey? Since at least 1998, my junior year of high school. I feel truly, truly out of touch that's such a thing of beauty the only problem uh with those nerds is that uh that first of all they should be klingons and star trek characters in period costume because the holodeck would have changed their costumes to be period appropriate they wouldn't be walking around in star trek uniforms oh that's true when captain mccard

went in as dixon hill hard-boiled private eye he was wearing a trench coat and a humphrey bogart hat he wasn't wearing a a red pantsuit but and the other problem with it is that renfairs are notoriously historically inaccurate. So the whole storyline would have to be the Star Trek characters walking around going, what has gone wrong with the holodeck? Or possibly that they all got into the holodeck and then, you know, Wesley Crusher or whatever was like, take me to a Renaissance fair. Nineteen ninety seven. ever was like take me to a renaissance fair 1997 i won't rest and i know it exists until i see a picture of will wheaton who played wesley crusher in a star trek uniform at a renaissance fair the first person who can get me a photo and will if you're listening i'll accept it from you as well i'm going to send you all nine

of the judge john hodgman t-shirt subscription t-shirts even backdated with a note of thanks from me wesley crusher played by will wheaton in star trek uniform at a renaissance fair and if you send me only a picture of will wheaton at a renaissance fair i'll send you a nickel because i bet there are a million of those photos. I love you, Will. Here's something from Kelly. You may remember that one of the reasons Matt didn't want to build that VR room in the basement was because he was terrified of centipedes. Yes.

Kelly's very specifically video gamey phobia, I have to say. Well, it's not like he said he was afraid of Q-Berts. There's got to be someone who's afraid of Q-Bert. Did you know that I did not I never played the game Q-Bert, which was just just before my time. But because of all the because of all the bad, to bring it back to the first case today? But my father, after my parents divorced, my father dated a woman named Susan, and I inherited a lot of Susan's son's stuff. And Susan's son was maybe six or seven years older than I was, so he had Star Wars toys.

six or seven years older than I was. So he had Star Wars toys. So I played with Star Wars toys despite it being, you know, three or four years after Return of the Jedi. Right. And one of the things that I inherited from Susan's son was Q-Bert the board game. If that thing was not a three-dimensional

series of staircase cubes, then throw it in the fire purely two-dimensional oh boy oh boy anyway kelly says the one that's my cubert swear sound well the one and only time kelly says that she's tried or he's tried VR was in the UW-HIT lab's Spider World back in late 1996. And Kelly suggests Spider World exposure therapy for Matt. So UW, I would imagine, is the University of Wisconsin? Or the University of Washington. Oh. Or the University of Washington.

Oh. Okay. Whatever university it is that in 1996 had a virtual reality rig coded Spider World. I'm sure some mad science came out of that. And in turn, I am sure that it can currently be run on a wristwatch. So let's go ahead and plug that in. So the first person who puts Spider World onto a wristwatch and then sends the wristwatch to Matt so that he can do his exposure therapy, you're A-OK. It does seem that it was the University of Washington because she sent a link to an article about this lab from the Seattle Weekly. And I regret that i had not read this

uh before jumping on the mic i didn't see it there that's on me i'm gonna read it now and anyone wants to read it the link will be on the judge john hodgman show page at maximumfund.org as well as as soon as we get one any pictures of will wheaton and eating a turkey leg outside of a mead hut at a ren fair well that's it for this week's Judge John Hodgman, the show produced by Jennifer Marmer. Follow us on Twitter at jessithorn, at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Maximum Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com to talk about this episode. You can submit your cases at maximumumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org

slash JJHO. Or just email us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. It goes directly to me. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Bye. Bye.