Judge John Hodgman - Queasy Rider

Episode Date: July 9, 2014

BUZZ MARKETING BAN LIFTED: Katie wants her boyfriend Dallas to go on her favorite ride at Disneyland. With Special Expert Witness Mark Gagliardi!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Queasy Rider. Katie brings the case against her boyfriend Dallas. They enjoy visiting a popular theme park together, but Dallas refuses to go on Katie's favorite ride. Katie says he's got nothing to lose by giving it a try and everything to gain. Dallas says he already knows he won't like it and he's okay with missing out. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. This is your judge speaking. Welcome aboard. We are now underway and proceeding on a course that will take us on a voyage of justice through internet space.

En route, we will pass below the polar ice cap and then probe depths seldom seen by man. Make yourself comfortable and no piehole opening, please. The piehole lamp is out. Jesse Thorne, you may swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that when he visits Disneyland, he doesn't spend a lot of time on the rides, instead preferring to spend his time not in the secret club that serves alcohol, but rather the second secret club that's inside that secret club that has hard drugs? Yes, I do. I do, I think. Very well. Judge Hodgman?

Oh, Bailiff Jesse, if only it were true. If only it were. You speak, of course. Jesse, if only it were true. If only it were you. You speak, of course. Now, look, there's already been a lot of discussion offline, listeners, as to what degree we were going to allow buzz marketing of the theme park that is in question here. And here's the thing.

I am going to allow buzz marketing. I'm going to name it as Disneyland. Correct, Katie and Dallas? That is correct. That is correct. That is correct. Because you can't get around it because basically Disneyland already owns all of the other corporations that we might have. It's not buzz marketing at this point. It's everything you have is owned by everything culturally.

Every now and then I'll just sit there and go, Disney owns Pixar, The Muppets, and Star Wars, and all of Marvel Comics. There's nothing left. There's nothing left. It's Superman versus Batman. That's it. It's the only thing they don't have their hands on. And the Battle Beyond the Stars franchise. So anyway, the point was that Jesse was making reference to Club 33, the secret, no longer secret club in Disneyland where alcohol is served. It's a members-only club, and you can only go there if you're a member or a guest of a member. And the fact is that I've never been.

I've never been, and I will not go. I will not go now for reasons that we can discuss in a moment. I can't do it now. Out of principle, I can't. In any case, we are talking about Disneyland. For an immediate summary judgment in your favor, I'm not sure that this is going to be a good one because I have a feeling you're going to get this one. But for an immediate summary judgment, so I'm going to already say that you're both wrong, just so that we can hear the case. But for an immediate summary judgment in your favor,

can either you, Dallas, or you, Katie, name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom? Katie, you can't. I can't. No. Dallas, though, you can. I missed it. Well, you weren though, you can. I missed it. What, you weren't listening? I missed the reference. Oh, you can't name it? No.

I thought for sure you were going to get that one. Is it like the voiceover when you're getting on one of the rides or something at Disneyland? You know, at least you're thinking critically, Katie. My guess would be. Too late for you, Dallas. Wait a minute. Be quiet. Silence.

Silence. Let me bring in my expert witness who's going to be hearing this case as well. Mark Gagliardi, are you in the courtroom? I am in the courtroom, Your Honor. Please step forward and say hello. Hello. My name is Mark Gagliardi. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Thank you for being here. Many people who listen to podcasts

and enjoy good things in life will know Mark as a work juice player, part of the repertory company of live action Muppets that perform once a month at Largo Theater in LA as the Thrilling Adventure Hour, a very popular podcast as well. And, uh, you know, his voice, uh, or a version of his voice as croach the tracker in the sparks Nevada serial on that very same thing. Big superstar in podcasting there, Mark. Oh, thank you. I, that is the first time I've ever heard us called live action Muppets. It's pretty much what you are now. The second, the second thing that you are less well- for, well, you're also an incredible actor and singer. And the thing that you perhaps listeners to Thrilling Adventure did not know, I certainly did not know it until recently, is that for a time you acted as the mayor of what American city?

Disneyland. Yes. The city that I acted as the mayor of. How long did you portray the mayor of Disneyland? For the duration of the 50th anniversary. They only had a mayor for one brief period and it was during that 50th anniversary. So it was a short term in office. But I worked at Disneyland and assorted other jobs for about eight years and still continue to do so when I'm in California. You're saying they only had a mayor for one, they only had an electric elected representative of Disneyland for one year.

Yes, there was only a, there was, well, it was the mayor on main street. There was also a mayor of frontier land, which I did also function as for a couple of years, but only intermittently amongst other mayors. And then there was the scandal. And then there was the horrific scandal involving the sheriff of Frontierland and the shootout on the roofs. And the video that was leaked to Gawker. Yes. Well, they caught us all one night inside Club 33. Oh, that's not true. None of that is true. You did not resign in scandal. No, there was no scandal. But I have been to Club 33. Oh. That's not true. None of that is true. You did not resign in scandal.

No, there was no scandal. But I have been to Club 33. Oh. Yes. We'll get more. Let's put a pin on that because we've got to hear a little bit of this dumb case. I've been there, too. Oh!

What about you, Katie? No, I've never been there. Good. You and me forever. Jesse? I haven't. I know that Jordan Moore is my co-host on Jordan, Jesse Goh, when we were in college. Oh, you hear me smashing things in my chambers.

Including some of the Club 33 cocktail stirrers that Ken Plume sent me one year. Every now and then, Ken Plume from a site called Fred and a bit of a chat, another great podcast, will go over to Club 33 and eat a bunch of food there and steal a bunch of cocktail stirrers and napkins and send them to me just to goad me because i've never been able to go george is he being nice and sending you souvenirs knowing that you'll never be able to go it's you know the former one of the yeah one of the great things in life is uh to be able to be nice to to find ways to be really nice to people in ways that you know will also hurt them that is

to be really nice to people in ways that you know will also hurt them. That is the key to life right there. It's one of the great skills that you can develop. Okay, now, I have lots of questions to ask about the mayorality of Disneyland, Club 33, and all sorts of things to talk about, because as you can probably sense from all the blather that I've gotten into before even hearing the case is that while I have little interest in Disney in any way, I'm not a huge fan. It's not my cup of tea. The character is not my cup of tea.

The cartoons never. The comic books, the world, all of that stuff I find to be a little bit not my thing. But the theme parks in particular and Disneyland specifically really fascinate me. And one of the places that truly provokes very strong feelings of fascination and curiosity and often joy, but also the closest feeling I've ever had to dread. And on that point, Mark, can you name the thing that I was quoting as I entered the courtroom?

I am embarrassed to say I cannot, though snippets of it sound familiar. I've heard so many. It does sound a bit like a ride introduction, but I've heard so many of those. It is a ride introduction, Mark. And there's no reason that you would necessarily, because when, what year were you mayor? It had to have been, it had to be 2005. 2005, correct. You do know your Disneyland.

And because it opened in 1955 and it was for the 50th anniversary because I did maths. Yes. And a little history. And I also know that from the history of Disneyland that during that period of time, this particular attraction was closed. Oh. Can you name it now? Would that be Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln? No.

That was closed during the 50th. Wait a minute. Listen, listen to, listen, did you even listen to what I was saying? You're soaring, you're soaring over the polar ice. Okay, hold on a second. That's right. Soaring over the polar ice caps like Lincoln did. So, no, going under, going under, passing below the polar ice caps like Lincoln did, coincidentally.

Would this be. Great submarine voyages with Abraham Lincoln. Yes. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. No, that's Walt Disney World, Mark. Oh, for God's sake. I don't know. I'm supposed to be the expert witness. Was it the train?

Dallas! That underwater train. That goes to the Grand Canyon. I want everyone to be quiet for a second. Dallas, I want you to understand something. The reason that we're listening to this case is A, you're afraid to go on a ride, and I am particularly interested in fear, and when it is appropriate to conquer it, and when it is appropriate to conquer it and when it is appropriate to respect it. I'm also very interested in Disneyland, which is not the ride in question here because the ride in question that you will not go on that Katie is trying to force me to force you to go on is Tower of Terror, which is in California Adventure. Correct.

You said that so disdainfully. Isn't that how it's pronounced? I've only ever heard it said that way. I thought that's how it was pronounced. California Adventure. That's the only way anyone has ever said it to me. Colloquially known as DCA. What is DCA?

Disneyland California Adventure? Yes. Oh, you mean like that's behind that's backstage yeah backstage talk this is shorthand you ever you ever walk you ever walk a secret tunnel between disneyland and dca um no but uh well not a secret tunnel it there it goes underneath a street under harbor boulevard yeah any tunnel that goes underneath the street is a secret tunnel. Then yes. Is it a pedestrian? Like can anyone go in it or only?

No, only cast members. Correct. Right. Yeah. So it's secret. Secret tunnel. I have been to the secret dining area underneath Pirates of the Caribbean on several occasions. All right. Hang on. I got to make a list of things we've got to talk about. Things that are probably going to get me censured by the Disney Senate. There's a Disney Senate? I want to talk about that as well.

They're going to throw you in Disney jail, too. Oh, yeah. And then, okay, and secret. We don't need to talk about anything that's going to get you in trouble. Everything we're going to discuss here is common knowledge. But even though it is in California adventure, I'm particularly interested in rides that cause incredible sense of fear and dread, as did not submarine adventure, which was in Disneyland, but 20,000 Leagues, which was in Disney World, which I went to one time. And I went on that thing and I went on it as a teenager, as like a 16-year-old. And I was utterly terrified in ways that I still cannot explain on a deep,

deep visceral level, because I expected to see real fish under there. And instead I saw robots and that was so profoundly unnatural that even now when I think about, even though that, that, the 20,000 leaves under the sea of Walt Disney world is all is gone altogether. Now does a submarine adventure in Disneyland got refurbished and made into a finding Nemo thing. But the finding Nemo thing has The Finding Nemo thing has actual cartoons underwater. Cartoons underwater is fine because those are bits of light playing. They're flimsy bits of light. They're not actual robots that should not be underwater. And if you fall into the lagoon,

be underwater. And if you fall into the lagoon, as I am immediately became afraid of, and then for the rest of my life, I'm constantly and rather implausibly afraid of falling into the lagoon at 20,000 leagues under the sea or, or, or, or, or submarine adventure, even though the rides don't exist. And I am thousands of miles away from both of them, I'm afraid that I might trip and fall into those lagoons at any moment. And then I know nothing would happen to me, but just the feeling of having to tread that oily water, knowing there are fake fish and robot mermen and mermaids underneath me, it feels, I'm feeling nauseated right now. So let's move on from that. And also fully electrified water. Yes. It will shock you the second that you hit it.

So you won't you know, you won't have to fear drowning. No, no, no. It won't shock you as soon as you hit it, because Uncle Walt and his in his cleverness thought it would be a good idea to put actual human women into the lagoon in 1960. From 1906, I think it was 1965, 1996, two summers in the middle of the 60s in any case. He made young women put on mermaid fish bottoms and swim around in there. Yes. And then they had to discontinue and he paid them a dollar 65 an hour and

they had to discontinue the program because the women were feeling sick from the diesel fumes and the chlorine was making them ill. Oh, geez. I love Disneyland so much. And the only reason, because it's so, it's so beautiful and grim at the same time. And it is truly, I can't wait to go back. Don't get, please don't put me in Disney jail. Please don't block me at the, please don't block me at the Gates of Wonder or, or, or, or throw me into the lagoon, Disney goons. I'm, I'm into it.

Disney goons. I'm into it. But here's the thing, Dallas. I decided to hear this case, even though it was about Disney California Adventure, because I was brief. In my brief, this is what it said. Dallas has a very special connection to this particular theme park because his father was an employee there for 30 years. Dallas and his seven brothers and sisters are able to enter the park for free for life. Now, you're not talking about DCA there, because that hasn't existed for 30 years. Did your dad work at Disneyland, or what? So he actually worked for the credit union, which is outside Disneyland, but you're still a cast member, technically. For the credit union? Yeah, Disneyland has their own credit union.

member technically for the credit union yeah Disneyland has their own credit union it's called partners partners federal credit union yeah okay and for whom does this credit union serve cast members only cast members and their families oh okay so it's like a it's a it's a cooperative bank for employees and cast members and so forth. Correct. Okay, great. So your, so your dad, so your dad never serviced the lagoon? No. Okay.

Unfortunately not. But, and so how. But he did make sure that the money was there for the lagoon so they could pay the mermaids. Is that so? I think so. What years did he work there? Uh uh he retired like two years ago so it was like the past 25 years before that and so you and your seven brothers would go into could go into the go in the park anytime you wanted well so when we were younger i had five brothers and two sisters seven total oh excuse me all right and uh we were younger, they had no limit on the sign-ins.

You could sign in as many people as you wanted as many times as you wanted, essentially. And then so when we were younger, we could go pretty much any time we wanted. And as we got older, they reduced that to where you could today. Now you can only do – you can sign in three people three times every three months. All right. Now we're getting pretty – our submarine voyage is getting stuck in some pretty deep weeds right now. Yeah. By the way, is that the name of the ride?

Submarine voyage? It was called submarine. It was called submarine voyage. Maybe, you know what? Maybe they should consider, maybe Disneyland needs a new mayor. Oh. You know what I'm saying? You know what?

I could go Grover Cleveland on it and leave for a while and come back. Oh, well, I could be – I would like to be mayor. That's what I'm saying. Oh. You know what? We'll have to have a mayoral debate at some point. All right. We'll put a pin on that as well.

Mayoral debate. All right. Now listen. Club 33. All right, we'll put a pin on that as well. Mayoral debate. All right, now listen. I'm never going to go to Club 33 because has not already asked me to be a member by now. To paraphrase Groucho Marx. Katie, what's the problem here?

Dallas, who grew up going to this park, is scared of the Tower of Terror. Yeah, the reason that this all came up was because Dallas and I were planning a trip to Disneyland and we were talking about our must do's. And the Tower of Terror is one of was one of mine. And he said, oh, I'm not going to go on that ride. And so I thought he was I kind of thought he was joking and that I could convince him to go on it. And it turned into this whole little debate. convince him to go on it and it turned into this whole little debate. And so I wrote to you before we went out there and we ended up going to Disneyland

and I still held out hope that I would be able to get him to go on the ride through bargaining and various methods and he wouldn't go on it. So we're planning on going again, hopefully in July. And we've agreed that whatever you decide is what we'll do. So I will respect whatever the decision of the court is. So where do you live now? We live in San Diego. And so not far away. And how and how long have you been married?

We met at the beginning of April. Of this year? Yes. Yeah. And you are married to each other. We're not married. Oh, excuse me. She's already telling me what to do. I don't, I apologize. I thought, I thought you were married. All right. Good. That explains why the brief I got was so faulty because Katie, Katie suggested, but she got a lot of details wrong.

She said that you had seven brothers, that you could enter the park for free for life. And now I learned that your dad worked for the credit union and you can only sign three people in every nine months if you got a special voucher from a thing to a thing. You have to have a cosigner. Yeah, you take all the joy out of it. All right. So, uh, Dallas, uh, I know why you don't want to go on tower of terror because it's a scary to you, Katie, why do you want to go on this dumb thing in California adventure? Okay. So I want to recognize first off that I have a selfish reason, which is that I love this ride and I want Dallas to go on it with me. That would be way more fun for me than to go on it by myself while he does something else or to not go on it.

But my other reasons for why he should go on it are. So I am also someone who doesn't like rides that drop. So the thing about this ride is that it's like an elevator. The whole idea is that it's an elevator in a haunted hotel or something. You get into it and it drops you and then it shoots you back up

and then it drops you and lifts you up a few different times. It's dumb. That's what I'm saying. It's dumb. I would have agreed with you, um, a year ago that it was dumb, but I went with some friends and I felt pressured to go on it. And I, I succumbed to peer pressure and I went on this ride and it was really fun.

I was surprisingly thrilled and entertained by this ride. It's, it's a stupid concept and it's something that, that doesn't sound enjoyable, but, but as a person who doesn't like rides that drop, I actually had a really good time on it. So I feel like Dallas may also have that experience. The other reason is that we, I have two other reasons. I guess it's your, I guess it's your courtroom. Go ahead.

I was prepared. I wanted to prepare my case. She has notes just so you know. I'm prepared. I wanted to prepare my case. She has notes, just so you know. I have notes. I have notes right here. I appreciate it. I appreciate preparation. It's something that I've often considered doing myself. Also, yeah, I want to be specific in my reasons. So the second of my three reasons is that this is pretty much the only thing that we can do at Disneyland that will be new for Dallas. This is the only new thing for him that we can do together. And then reason number three is that hold on reason number three. I know you won't forget it because you've got it written down. Dallas.

How many times have you been to Disneyland and Disney California Adventure? to Disneyland and Disney California Adventure? I honestly cannot count. Countless, would you say? It would be countless. I would say it would be in the hundreds. And you've done all the bigs, right? I've done all the big rides.

I've been on all the rides. I've been on all the new rides. Even because my dad worked there, we would get special passes to go on the rides before they were open to the public. Yeah, like what time? Five o'clock in the morning? You hit that Space Mountain hard? Oh, sometimes you have like a special ticket.

It would only allow you on to that ride. And people offered you money for this ticket. It was crazy. You were taking bribes at 12 years old. Bribes. Letting people get on, sneak in the back to Jungle Cruise and what have you. Yeah. You remember when it was Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, right? Oh, hell yeah.

Yeah, that's right. That's what we're talking about, the real stuff. Real stuff. The best ride in the park is just a tree you walk up into. Were you, by the way, now that you're here, since you know Disneyland so well, were you that kid who lived on Tom Sawyer Island for three years at Feral Child? But I can hide in those caves pretty well.

You know those caves? Is there a cave that leads from Tom Sawyer, and I won't call it Pirates of the Caribbean Grotto or whatever the heck. Pirates Lair. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You're welcome. I actually also was a pirate on Pirates Lair on Tom Sawyer Island. You know, my father was ejected along with his brother from Disneyland the week it opened for messing around on Tom Sawyer Island. Yeah, that's the point of Tom Sawyer Island.

You just go on there and you mess around. What, what was he doing? I don't know exactly. He was like, he was like on top of stuff that you weren't supposed to be on top of, or they were throwing things at each other. Yeah.

Maybe throwing things. Cause the whole thing is to get on top of things and to climb down into things and to climb into dark holes that you are pretty sure and pretty likely to get stuck in. Yeah. My parents would just drop all seven of us off there and just be like, here, you're, you have a babysitter. You can't get across the river without them. One of the, well, sadly, one of the own,

one of the only deaths in Disneyland were two kids who stayed on the island after hours and got trapped there and tried to swim back. The way I read it was the older brother drowned trying to bring the younger brother across. This is a true story? This happened? Oh, wow. It's funny. It's funny what they kept from you, Mr. Mayor.

Yeah. Figurehead leader only, I guess. Oh, 100%. Everything I said was scripted. That's why I want the job. Is what Katie says true that Tower of Terror is the only thing you've done them all? You ever ride the Lily Bell car on the Walt Disney Railroad?

No, I have not done that. Eat it, Club 33. I i got you there i've pretty much been on all the rides except for like some of the kiddie rides and even those like because like i have my nephew we go with him so so so why not tower of terror because of the tower or because of the terror i mean so that everybody keeps saying i'm like scared of this right it's not so much that i'm scared it's just that i've never found enjoyment out of going on a rides that are like go up and down, that just go up and down. And like kind of like Malibu-mers, if Mark remembers, that was a ride in California that was removed because it was one of those rides that just goes up and down. And I feel like people were not having so much fun on it, so they actually removed it. And so same thing here.

We actually went on that ride and it's just not that much fun so it was like i never really found the need to go on tower of terror or the the want where like when you're a little kid everybody wants to go and you feel pure pressure to like go on everything and like oh okay right but now that i'm older i don't feel that pressure i'm like yeah you go you know you go that ride. I'll go have a drink. We're both having fun. Katie, Katie is putting pressure on you. Why don't you just do it one time to make Katie happy? That's, you know, that goes back into like the happy wife, happy life kind of thing. It's right. Right. So that's probably what's going to happen. I don't know what you're talking about. Is that some Disneyland poem that I don't know?

What are those proverbs that you think that may or may not be true? I think that's just what's on mugs. Like coffee mugs say that. You may not realize this, but I just found out that Katie and you are not married.

And in fact, you've only known each other for a few months. You are courting. You are pitching woo. I guess this is true. And part of woo pitching is testing yourself and allowing yourself to be pushed into new situations so that you can learn what the other person likes and also to try to make the other person happy.

I agree, but there's the other side of that coin. So I would say that you're also setting the tone in the beginning. So if I always give in in the beginning, then that's just how the whole relationship is going to be. Right. I hope you're listening carefully, Katie. Because there's, there's no doubt you're setting a tone, Dallas. You are setting a tone for this relationship. Well, actually.

Katie, you may now jump in. Thank you. The last reason that I have really ties into this, which is that recently Dallas suggested that we form a kickball team for the summer. And I am just, if I may quote Tom Sharpling for a moment, for a moment, oh brother. So my favorite environment is being home with my book, basically. I'm not very much of a team sports person, and I'm afraid of getting hit in the face or making a fool of myself in front of a lot of people who are very athletic. It's kickball. It's kickball.

I know. Well, that should go to show how unathletic I am. A lot of like arena football league players, once they get out of the arena football league, and if they don't want to move to Europe to play in NFL Europe, they'll play in a local kickball league. There's a lot of really top athletes playing kickball these days. Yeah, it's true. You could get seriously injured. I didn't know what to expect.

Let me fast forward to this. You played it and you had a good time. So even though I was very scared to do this, I said, you know what? Let's do this. It sounds fun. It's obviously something that you will enjoy. And we played our first kickball game on Monday and it was super fun. I had a great time and now I'm looking forward to kickball. ball game on Monday and it was super fun. I had a great time and now I'm looking forward to kick ball. So I feel like part of what we're doing here is we're pushing ourselves to try things that maybe we're not comfortable with, or maybe we're afraid of because it'll make the other person happy and we might have fun with them doing it. Can I also say she was the catcher of the kickball team. It was like the least responsible. Wait a minute, Dallas, you,

a, you made her the catcher. Thanks, Katie. And B, the fear was that she was going to get a ball kicked in her face. She could not have been in a more ball-meat-face position than catcher. She clearly faced her fears. You be quiet for a second, Dallas. Katie, when you say you were afraid to play a kickball, and I will remind you that you were under internet oath. Yes. Was your fear that you were going to get a ball to the face or was your

fear that you were going to give up one inch of your personal agency and pride to the person you were starting a relationship with and that that would somehow lead you down a path where you were going to have to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted to do it for the rest of your life. No, no. My fears were of physical injury and being embarrassed in front of a bunch of people that I don't know. So you had no you had no fear about being about setting a tone that you are going to be pushed around into various sports games for the rest of this relationship. sports games for the rest of this relationship? I need to be pushed out of my comfort zone because I will just do the same things that I feel comfortable with and where I feel safe for the rest of my life. Now, let me ask you this. Are you suggesting that Dallas Go on the Tower of Terror, which we all agree is an arbitrary, dumb, up and down ride, the kind of

thing you might see at a state fair that happens to be on the wrong side of the tracks in the wrong park. We will not all agree to that. I will. It's really fun though. I feel like I will allow you to speak for Tower of Terror now, Mark. Go ahead. May I speak on behalf of the Tower of Terror? Then may I finish my question? Yes, but I could go for a long time. I love the Tower of Terror. All right. I once worked a job for the Tower of Terror where I rode that ride seven times a day for a month. And the beauty, yes.

Yes, that was my job. What was the job? It was one Halloween. Pretending to be a rider so that you could cue people as to when to scream? I was the ghost of the maintenance man. Really? I was the ghost of the maintenance man on the Tower of Terror. And I spent most of my time in the queue. And then at

the end of each of my, uh, half hour sets, I would ride the ride seven times a day, five drops per ride. So 35 times a day, I dropped. Was it your job to ride the ride or that was your payment? No, luckily I was paid in Disney dollars, but dollars but my uh my job was to portray a ghost for the bulk of the ride um but the but the beauty of that ride being on the ride as a ghost was part of the gig right was part of the gig yes yeah okay and what would you do when you're on there well i would would you go i would no the the the game of it was not to give away too many Disney secrets, but the game of it was we would ride the ride. I would ride with the woman who was playing the ghost of the maid. The two of us would ride the ride. And then as all the guests were exiting the ride, it was our job to sit stone faced and immobile as all of the guests exited the ride. I was going to say, was it your job to pose as a regular person who then acted as though you had been scared to death at the end of it?

No, quite the contrary. The idea of this is that it was a normal day for us at this beautiful hotel. And that is the thing about that ride that is great. It's less about the dropping and more about the aesthetic of the queue of that ride. Right. I was just going to say, it's less about the ride and more about the line, right? Yeah. Because that's the other secret of Disneyland.

Oh, we make the line a good time. Because that's what you're going to see for the most of your time. Yeah. You're going to spend 40 minutes in that. That's that was my point to Katie. This is just a ride that goes up and down. And you're just falling for the fluff. It's just all the fluff. Whoa.

Finally, someone's standing up to the fluff at Disneyland. That place that's all about substance. The Hall of Presidents. The Hall of Presidents. The Hall full of presidents. If Disneyland in California had a Hall of Presidents, I would have been there every day. But they did not. They only had Lincoln.

They just had Lincoln. They just went for the best. Yeah. Polar ice cap Lincoln. Yeah. You don't need William Henry Harrison. You don't need Grover Cleveland up there describing his, his, his secret,

his secret surgery on his palate to remove a tumor that he had to do on a, on a yacht. Because no one could know. Yeah. No one was allowed to know. I knew about the secret baby, but not the secret surgery. He had secret surgery and he had to go out on the presidential yacht, which is a great place, by the way, to have surgery on a boat in the middle of Long Island Sound or whatever.

Or the Potomac, I guess. Because to admit that the president had cancer was, A, something that you could not say for fear. Well, and I suppose that would be true. I'm sure they wouldn't let a lot of people know if the president had cancer today, but also what B was a secret you could keep by simply going out on a boat. Once you were out on a boat, no one could know what you were doing. Even having surgery.

I'm surprised you didn't learn that at hall of presidents and Walt Disney world. But Mark, before I move on to dallas let me just say go back to your masters at disney and tell them that aside from hiring a new mayor named john hodgman hey that's the same name you have it would be funny right they should they should they should rehire you for tower of terror at a fine price and not to be the ghost of the guy, but you should be a regular, just a regular tourist who's riding the ride. And the thing is that you draw attention to yourself in some way. You act like Dallas. This is all fluff.

This is all fluff. This is the worst ride, everybody. I've been here since my dad worked for the disney bank and i've been at everything and i know better than everyone and somehow i let this torturous harpy bully me into going into this dumb ride this girl that i'm dating boy what what have i gotten myself into where's the where where's the ball and chain on this ride i kind of i I got to put this around my ankle now. And then that's all the way going up. And then going down, you do a quick change. And you put on a white wig.

And so your hair turns white by the end of it. And then you're like, ah, it's the greatest. It's the greatest since Tom Sawyer Island or whatever. All right, Dallas, what's your favorite ride at Disneyland? Space Mountain or California Screamin' is pretty awesome.

That's a California adventure, right? That's a California adventure. I thought it was California Dreamin' apostrophe. No, it's California Screamin'. But it's apostrophe is there. Apostrophe is there. That's why Screamin'. But the apostrophe is there. The apostrophe is there.

That's why I will never go on that ride. But I have a question for Mark. Mark, did you ever go on Malibumers? I did not ever ride Malibumers. I'm more into the, obviously more into the aesthetically interesting rides than the strict carnival rides. That was going to be my question is, because I've been on Malibu, so I wanted to know the comparison of the two to see if it was the same kind of ride and it was just the fluff that's different. Well, let me ask your definition of what fluff is, Dallas, because it seems to me that what Mark is pointing out is that, yes,

there is a essentially state fair style up and down dumb ride in this thing, but that it's surrounded by all of the things that make Disney attractions interesting and fun. The attention to detail, the weird little storylines that they weave into stuff, all that stuff that makes waiting in a line less than boring. Arguably, Tom Sawyer Island is, there is no, I mean, for me, the beauty of Disneyland was always the rides that weren't rides. You climb up into a tree, you go onto an island, you explore a cave. You're allowed to explore this completely fabricated world sort of in your own way. Is that fluff? Yeah, I think so. Because I think,

in a lot of ways, especially when I was a kid, like a lot of the rides like Tom Sawyer's Island, or the Swiss Family Robinson Tree, those were tied into movies that we were seeing as kids, so that you're actually in that reality. Now you're on Tom Sawyer's Island with Tom Sawyer, you're on, you're in the Swiss Family Tree Robinson house with the family. So you kind of like part of the movie now. Whereas with Tower of Terror, there's no Tower of Terror movie. Incorrect. There is a Tower of Terror movie starring Steve Guttenberg. No kidding.

Boom. But is it made by Disney? It is made by Disney. It played on a Sunday night on there when they were doing, when they brought back the magical world of a wonderful world of Disney. It was a made for TV Disney Channel movie all about the Tower of Terror. It was the first movie based on a Disney ride, according to Wikipedia. I did my research.

Thank you. It co-stars Kirsten Dunst. So that's a good point. The ride was made before the movie was made. So the movie was actually based on the ride. Whereas what I was talking about is that the rides were based on movies and that you're kind of living in the world of that movie, essentially.

All right. What makes, what makes space mountain, which is not, not tied into any Mark Twain books, as far as I know, or European family adventure books, what makes space mountain your favorite ride?

Or you can answer a different question. If you wish, what to you is the ultimate Disney land attraction, uh, that to you makes Disney, Disney rather than a state fair or, or, or something else. So this space mountain would be my favorite ride because I think the nostalgia effect just of being a kid going on it so much, and that was like our favorite ride as kids, and now just being able to go on it as an adult is kind of the same thing. You just kind of relive that experience and kind of get that joy as, as you know, that nostalgia is the most toxic impulse, particularly when it comes to, uh, uh, uh, uh, reviewing something aesthetically because

nostalgia just, everyone has nostalgia because everyone had a dumb childhood. Therefore, the thing that you experienced, no matter how cruddy it was when you were a kid is always going to have a certain pull on your heart. Just like, Thorne's Brave Star Lunchbox, which, by the way, Jesse, did you get it? I did get it. Yeah. Didn't you feel great and also terrible once you received it? Yes. So I want to know intrinsically, without connection to your nostalgic experience, intrinsically,

aesthetically, what makes Space Mountain a good ride where Tower of Terror is a bad ride? So Space Mountain, just because it's dark and it's a roller coaster and it does more than just go up and down. It actually throws you around and you have like an experience of weightlessness and all this stuff. Whereas with Tower of Terror, I feel like you just go up and down. It's just dumb. You just go up and down. I ride in elevators every day. I work in a 34-story building. I'm in an elevator every day. I feel like you just go up and down. It's just dumb. You just go up and down. I ride in elevators every day. I work in a 34-story building.

I'm in an elevator every day. I don't need to go in another one. I ride a train every day. That doesn't mean I should never ride a roller coaster. Is your train going through loops? Does your elevator fall out of the sky repeatedly? It could. It could. It could.

I ride a runaway Jeep every day. That doesn't mean I'm not going to go on Indiana Jones adventures. This is true. I sever the brake lines of my Jeep every day and repair them every night. That is another great ride. That's kind of like rocket Rods at Indiana Jones. I lead a tour through the jungle every day. Mark, why is Indiana Jones Adventure a great ride?

You know, for me, as in all of these rides, I'm a big fan of the storylines and the aesthetics and the art direction of them. They have, I mean, they call it imagineering. There's the imagination and there's the engineering. While the engineering of an elevator going up and down is no big deal, the imagination part of it is. Indiana Jones, I think, is a perfect marriage of both. The engineering to feel like you're in a Jeep that has had its brake lines cut is mixed with all of this Indiana Jones art

direction that I think is really, really fun. Wait a minute. Are you buzz marketing Disneyland? No, I'm not. Are you getting paid? I just realized I might've been suckered into this after all, you know, functioning as the mayor emeritus of Disneyland.

I have to give a shout out to my peeps. Disneyland's own Tom Ford is here with us today. Okay. So, one final question, Dallas. Yes, you're on. When you consider going on the Tower of Terror, there is

no part of you that feels spine tingling, nauseating dread the way I feel when I even consider going on Submarine Voyage, even though it doesn't exist anymore. And if I watch a video ride through of the old Submarine Voyage, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea the sea, I truly like my heart starts racing. That's not the feeling you have about Tower of Terror? Well, no, I mean, like, yeah, no, I don't want to go on it because it doesn't make me feel good. I mean, that's like, for example, like the Malibu-mers, they literally had a throw up shield on all of them because people would, you know, lose their lunch from going up and down. So yeah,

I get that feeling of like queasiness in my stomach. And but like, so it's like a roller coaster. When I'm on the roller coaster, like California Scream, and you, I get that feeling of like queasiness in my stomach. So it's like a roller coaster. When I'm on the roller coaster like California Scream and you kind of get that queasiness or whatever, but then you have like the rush of fun. I never had that on like Malibu or any of those up and down rides. So you just get the queasiness. There's no fun part. So, yeah, that's the feeling I get is like remembering that on other rides. And so I don't really want to experience that on Tower of Terror. So you guys are going again in July of this year, 2014?

Correct. All right. And as California residents, are you going to go for free? Yeah, my dad's going to sign us in. Are you going to go to Club 33? We are not going to go to Club 33. But we are probably going to go to Carthay Circle. What?

Carthay Circle is a great restaurant. I probably shouldn't even have mentioned that. That's kind of like a little secret. It's kind of a gem. Oh, how dare you? How dare you keep a secret from your judge? But you can get in there. That's open to the public.

You have no interest in it. But you need to make reservations. No, that's fine. I can get reservations in any restaurant to the public. You have no interest, do you? But you need to make reservations. That's fine. I can get reservations in any restaurant in the world. I'm sure you can. Except for one. Except Club 33. Alright, I've heard everything I need to make my decision. I'm going to go to my secret,

my own private secret restaurant in my chambers and eat some pretty good hotel quality food and have a glass of red wine that is my own private secret restaurant in my chambers and eat some pretty, pretty good, pretty good hotel quality food and have a glass of red wine that is not remarkable. And then I'll come back and I'll make my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Katie, how do you feel about your changes in the case? I feel pretty confident, but I am I am OK with with whatever the judge decides. And I also feel like if if we went on this ride and Dallas did not enjoy himself, I would never ask him to go on it again.

I just really think that he might. I think he has the wrong idea about this ride and I think it would be fun. But I definitely don't want to make him throw up. Dallas, how are you feeling? Are you kidding me? I'm going to lose. up dallas how are you feeling are you kidding me i'm gonna lose maybe you should have made an outline like katie did i'm probably gonna lose because you know uh i don't i feel like the judge was not really uh you know feeling the whole the fear thing and uh i think uh you know to uh make katie happy I'm going to have to, you know, keep this going. And eventually just go on this ride.

Gotta keep this going. Yeah. Are you talking about this charade of a relationship? Yeah, you know, I'm with her. I think the only reason she's with me is so she can go to Disneyland for free. I mean, I'm just going to put that out there. That's a whole other case. The two of you, one way or another, are definitely going to go on that ride where you fly in the air with your friend Patrick Warburton, right?

Is Soaring Over California? There you go. That's what it's called. I call it Patrick Warburton Ride. We did that already. You can do it again. Patrick Warburton ride. We did that already. You can do it again. Patrick Warburton's there. And I should have mentioned this in the case to John Hodgman, but she won't go on the Ferris wheel because she's scared of that one.

No, but I would go on it. I'll help you out with this one. Is there any Patrick Warburton on the Ferris wheel? I don't think so. There's no compelling reason. Warburton on the Ferris wheel? I don't think so. There's no compelling reason. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a minute. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course, thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org.

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off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. So first of all, I was listening to you guys talking about Patrick Warburton from within my private members-only dining room in my chambers because I miked up all the chandeliers in the courtroom so that I could have my talking animatronic vulture talk back to you. But then that wasn't working.

It's a deep cut for you Club 33 fans out there. It's a deep cut. I don't even think, Mark, I don't even think they have the trophy room anymore. Not to my knowledge. I don't remember a talking vulture. I do remember a lot of mahogany, and that sounds like something you'd see in a trophy room. The plan was that Walt Disney was going to have a bunch of animatronic taxidermied creatures in the trophy room. And there would be little microphones in the chandeliers and at the tables and whatnot

so that a person could listen in on the conversation and then have the talking vulture talk back to them and interact with them. No, they do have that in trash can form, though. There's a talking trash can. That's pretty cool. Push the talking trash can in Tomorrowland. Oh, in Tomorrowland. I never go into Tomorrowland.

That's not for me. That's like DCA. It's pretty close. It's pretty close. All that steampunk garbage. No, that's not my Tomorrowland. That's not the nostalgic Tomorrowland of my youth. Of your yesterday.

Yeah, exactly. You know they pump out smells into Main Street USA, Mark? You know that, right? I do, yes. Pump out smells. Yes. You know why they do that? To make you hungry.

To make you hungry. They pump out smells of candy and donuts and stuff. And also so they can pump out sleeping of candy and donuts and stuff and also so the so they can pump out sleeping gas and put everyone to sleep all at once if they have to if it comes to it they wouldn't just do that but if it came to it yeah if they have to mark can you confirm that rumor right now for me uh the sleeping gas yeah can you confirm that one well i can confirm no i want you to work mark oh don Oh, don't confirm it. Your yes and is, your yes and is very, is very improv correct, but it really must be improper.

No, there is. But I will say one, my favorite little detail of Main Street that I'm sure everyone knows is that the buildings get smaller as you go down Main Street so that the castle looks bigger and the street looks longer. Yeah, forest perspective. Exactly, Mark. And if these little details that I realize now talking to Dallas, that over the countless times that Dallas has visited Disneyland, he has become utterly blind to. Dallas, for you, going to Disneyland is the same thing as like going to your dad's office. Like when you were a kid, you got to use the Xerox machine and that was the coolest thing in the world.

But now it's all old hat to you and you don't even see the things that make Disneyland such a perverse work of genius and ingenuity and strangeness. Do you know what I mean? Like you're sitting there, you literally sat there, or I don't know if you're standing or sitting or what you're doing. And you're like, yeah, I like Space Mountain. Space Mountain is the best ride in Disneyland because it's a roller coaster. That's what you said. That's what you said. It's a roller coaster. And you don't like Tower of

Terror because it's a thing that goes up and down. But, you know, there are roller coasters in the world. Other roller coasters. Far better roller coasters in the world. What makes Space Mountain interesting and cool and unique is that it has this weird, incredibly, well, I won't say incredibly imaginative, fairly imaginative storyline that leads you into the roller coaster, through the roller coaster and out of the roller coaster. And an art design and a production design that is matched by nothing else in any other theme park. And also the history of the fact that they're like, well, I guess it's, you know, I guess it's 1970. I guess we got to make a space thing now. And so they did.

They tried to rip off Star Wars before they realized, oh, we can just buy it. Now they know, oh, I'll just buy that thing. You know, to say going on Tom Sawyer's island was cool because we all loved Mark Twain at that time. People still love Mark Twain at that time. People still love Mark Twain. I guess kids are probably a little less familiar with Tom Sawyer than maybe they used to be in 1955. But none of the kids who are crawling around in those caves and risking life and limb in the dark are getting a thrill because Johnny Depp might have walked there once because it's a cool thing to climb around in. And you don't actually get that from a lot of so-called amusement parks.

You know, the ultimate best Disney attraction. Mark, can you guess what I'm going to say? I cannot. I'm racking say? Oh, I cannot. I'm racking my brain trying to think about it. I know what it isn't, and I know it's not the submarines. Well, that is in many ways the ultimate Disney attraction. I will say, you know what? I will take a guess as to what it is.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, that's okay. But let me finish. That is, for me, just to give you a hint as to what I find to be the ultimate best Disneyland attraction. To me, the Submarine Voyage and 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas are very close to the apotheosis because they try to fuse together legitimate wonder and produce legitimate wonder with absolute inauthenticity, with fakeness, you know, all the way down to the gills on the fake fish. Like, I know that they originally planned to have real fish in there, and then they

realized that would be monstrous. You can't put sea life into a diesel pool. We can put humans in there, but sea life um then then that changes my answer i was going to say uh the haunted mansion but based on that i'm going to guess the jungle cruise jungle cruises is among the best because that was another one where they thought let's have animals and then they realized exactly that and then they had and then they had uh then they they have all those robotic animals and those fairly racist portrayals of humans sure uh i mean a bunch of natives climbing up a pole and you're very and you're very close and you're and the headhunter and also the the the the hippopotami, which, you know, they scare me a lot because those are robots underwater, right?

Yes. But if you get one of the old school boat skippers, they treat those underwater robots with the appropriate hatred. They shoot them. Yes. Do the new school ones not do that? Do they teach them not to do that anymore? I don't think that they actually shoot the hippopotamuses anymore. them. Yes. Do the new school ones not do that? Do they teach them not to do that anymore? I don't think that they actually shoot the hippopotamuses anymore or, you know, they fire in the air to scare them away. But, you know, the thing about Disneyland is that it is a

kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? Palimpsest. a layer upon layer of history of entertainment that goes back to world's fairs and amusement parks from the 30s, 40s, and 50s. And then just it accrues weird little sediments of ideas of what entertainment is until you have this accrued hole that is you're almost wandering through an archaeological dig of culture to some degree and and i love that aspect and for me the the one that that combines the incredible uh the the an incredible ride an incredible thrill an incredible storytelling uh with history of the park and just pure strangeness is Splash Mountain. Oh, yeah. Because Splash Mountain is essentially exactly what we're talking about here. that is complicated, that is made interesting by a dark ride before it,

where you go through and see incredible animated scenes, audio animatronic scenes of animals singing and dancing and great music and an incredibly compelling and then frightening and then weird dark ride. And then an exciting log flume. And then a huge, crazy audio-animatronic show of Zippity-Doo-Dah at the end on a paddle boat. The big show boat with the hens that look like a gospel choir playing tambourines.

Yeah, all of which, by the way, was salvaged from another attraction called America Sings that no one was going to. And then that doesn't even touch upon the storyline of the ride itself, which is the storyline of Br'er Rabbit from Song of the South, a movie that Disney does not allow to be seen anymore. And when I learned, because it, you know, it's the Uncle Remus tales and the depictions of these, you of these traditional African-American folk tales are a little problematic to modern audiences to give it to be most kind to.

Yes. To this film. Teach the controversy, I was stunned because that was long after Disney decided we're not going to let anyone see this movie anymore. So now I would say at least one, if not one and a half generations of humans has gone through that thing, never seeing that movie or knowing what the hell is going on, why this rabbit is afraid of this fox and what these songs are from and what a laughing place is.

And it's utterly disorienting and weird because it pays homage to a Disney history that is ultimately secret now. Well, I wonder if that's why they made the ride because everybody knows the song Zippity-Doo-Dah and everybody knows Disney songs are from something. So when someone asks the question, what's Zippity Doo Dah from? Now they can say Splash Mountain instead of having to say Song of the South. They spent seventy five million dollars making that ride to come up with a reason for where Zippity Doo Dah came from. They have a lot of money.

Nice work trying to plaster that over, Mr. Mayor. They could have done their log flume about anything. It was such a weird decision. And that's what I find so fascinating about Disneyland is the weirdness of it. Now, Katie, you've made a case with Mark's help for Tower of Terror, which actually makes me interested. Now that I know that've made a case for, uh, with Mark's help for tower of terror, which actually makes me interested. Now that I know that they've got Mark Gagliardi dressing up

as a ghost going on this ride, I'm actually curious about it now. Well, and you know, it's the whole twilight zone theme too, right? I don't even dig into that. What do they get? Where does the twilight zone come into tower of terror? Rod Serling introduces it. Rod Serling is dead. You used to think Rod Serling recorded an intro for Tower of Terror before he died? A combination of 1960s Rod Serling footage and a very convincing sound alike. I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

It's amazing. It's very creepy. I don't know. I realize as an expert witness, I'm not supposed to pick a side, but I don't know. I realize as an expert witness, I'm not supposed to pick a side, but I'm with Katie. You are supposed to pick a side. You're,

you're, you're lobbying for tower of terror. I think we should all go together. I'm curious about it. And, and you know, my repulsion to this, this weird cross branding of twilight zone,

which has nothing to do with Disney. And, and I think insensibility is the opposite of Disney, with a Disney-owned ride in a park that I hate. And all sort of encrusted around the dumbest state park ride or state fair ride you could go on. That, to me, makes it interesting. And so I will go on it, Katie. I will go on it interesting and so i will go on it katie i will go on it but dallas never will go on it dallas you are banned from ever going on this ride wow i'm banning you from this pleasure dallas because i i think oh i know but you think you

think you've won and technically you. But let me tell you something. Your comment about not wanting to give in to Katie's request in your relationship because it would set a tone is contemptible. I mean, I feel that to be – I have contempt for it that is tempered only by the fact that you don't sound like a monster. I have contempt for it that is tempered only by the fact that you don't sound like a monster. And I can only imagine that you said that to cover up for what I think we ultimately got down to at the end of the day is that you're afraid of going on this ride. At one point, you finally said Malibu boomers. Yes. Which you cannot. I could not i i i would have if i had been given the choice i would have burned that to the ground just for the name but you that made you physically ill

and you're scared to go on another ride like that and all your stuff about i go on elevators every day and it's all fluff just surrounding an elevator and i don't want my i don't want a girl to tell me what to do all of that all all of that and this is a family friendly disney podcast is bull feces and you know it just say that you're afraid and that it's not for you and that enough, maybe someday you'll get over that fear. I would urge you to look into it because, honestly, going on Tower of Terror, the very sad situation about the kids that I talked about who drowned at Disneyland is really one of the very, very, very rare situations of things going wrong at Disneyland.

You're much safer going on Tower of Terror than going to any other amusement park and going on the exact same ride without a ghost janitor on the ride with you. You know what I mean? It's a good deal for you. That's a good point. That's a good point. But you are banned because of what you said. To cover up your fear, you are not ever allowed to go on Tower of Terror. And Katie, you can take any boy you want with you on the tower.

Hey, hey, hey. In fact, Katie. Yeah. I order you to invite someone to go with you to Disneyland to go with you on Tower of Terror. Whoever it is you want. Whoever it is. Boy, girl, whatever. And Dallas has got

to sign them in. How is she going to get in? I order you to sign in a Tower of Terror pal that you're going to have to hang around with. And that's what you get. That's what you get for saying of Terror pal that you're going to have to hang around with. And that's what you get. That's what you get for saying that dumb thing that you said. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. I'll explain why I will never go to Club 33 after the break when we do the docket. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Katie, how do you feel? I'm so sad. I'm so sad, but I am looking forward to going to Tower of Terror with some lucky friend. Dallas, you weren't expecting to come out of this one with a W. How are you feeling right now? Oh, yeah. I'm a little conflicted. I didn't feel like I was going to win. And then I obviously

didn't feel like the judge was going to, I was going to win, but make me feel like I'm losing. So that was kind of unexpected. You're saying that you didn't realize that you were such a human monster. Yes, that I'm a monster and that I'm just covered up for my contempt of women and my fear of elevators, apparently. What's the first ride that you're going to go on the first time that you go to Disneyland with Katie? The Ferris wheel. No, no, I'm not going on it.

So what? I'm not going to work on it. Human monster. Monster. Katie Dallas, thanks for joining us on Judge John Hodgman. Thank you so much. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

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If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Thank you so much. Hey, are you guys going to get into my log flume? That sounds great. I love flumes. What does brayer mean? I'll explain it to you later once we go, once you are sitting in front of me between my legs. Are there none?

One of the great ways that people who go to Disneyland who don't know each other get to learn, get to know each other very well. Are there non-log flumes? Like, are there steel flumes? Sure, sure, logs. I imagine a steel flume, like, because, well, it was for,

it was in order to move them downriver. I imagine a steel flume is probably very warm and molten and in a factory somewhere. Right. Yeah, this harkens back, this ride, the idea of a log flume harkens back to lumberjacking traditions. Mm-hmm. Oh, right, because you've got to, like, that's what those guys that stand on the logs and they're Canadian guys and then they wrestle each other. Yep, that's right. Lumberjack.

Lumberjack competition. Gotcha. It's going to be the next high lie. Okay, I got something here from Laura. Let's clear the docket. My dear friend Marissa and I were on a road trip to Lake Tahoe and began talking about swimming in the buff. Marissa is a self-described hippie and loves to swim in the nude. She believes that no one looks at her in public when she skinny dips because it's not proper.

I say, of course people are going to look. Nudity is not common in our culture. Is Marissa correct in assuming that no one looks at her as she's celebrating her nudity and hippie lifestyle? Or should you expect glances when you are naked in public? Oh, Marissa, people are looking. I'm looking at you right now, and I can't even see you. Where is she skinny dipping? This makes it sound like she's decided to go skinny dipping,

like, at the neighborhood pool. No, Lake Tahoe. Isn't that where they were going to go swimming? They're going to go, they're going to, well, they're on a trip to Lake Tahoe. She was going to go skinny dipping in Lake Tahoe? Look, I don't know. I've never been to Lake Tahoe.

Mark, have you ever been to Lake Tahoe? I've not. Is that legal in Lake Tahoe? I've been to Lake Tahoe many times. I'm from San Francisco. It's like sort of the place you go. I would say it's definitely not legal to go skinny dipping in Lake Tahoe.

It's a big lake, but you can see from one side to the other. There's no place where you could go that's like there's children there and stuff. I know through hard experience, you can't ride Pirates of the Caribbean with your shirt off. Marissa, yeah, people are going to look at you because you're nude and it's not typical in our culture. But you shouldn't care because who cares? That's the whole thing about being nude. Mark, you're a performer, right? Yes.

You're an actor. You've had to get undressed in front of a lot of different people, right? I have. Who cares? Who cares? Who cares? Marissa, I would say, well, there's one thing I've learned from getting changed in front of audiences into a nine-rand dress. Which I witnessed that.

That was a beauty. You know, I'm not someone who's ever been particularly proud of his body, but after a while you become inured to feelings of shame and embarrassment, and it's very liberating, just as it was liberating in my Tom Sharpling

video for my That Is All book, to walk through Times Square barefoot. Nothing terrible is going to happen if you are nude. And in fact, people should be nude more often as far as I'm concerned. It may be against the law in Lake Tahoe, but it's because, Marissa, you're a hippie girl who's getting undressed. The police officer will probably just say, please put your clothes on.

It's going to work out fine. We were down in Battery Park, my family and I, here in New York City on an early spring afternoon. And there was a woman, clearly a European woman, because she had two male friends with her who were wearing European jeans. And she was topless. And you would think like, oh my God, the whole city is going to collapse in on itself. But it was just fine. No one cared. No one cared. No one cares.

Go for it, Marissa. But do know that people will look until after a while they'll stop looking. Now, Mark, we're going to. Yes. We don't even have another docket case, just a letter from somebody. So we're going to read it another time because I want to take advantage of having the mayor of Disneyland here. What did you do as mayor of Disneyland in 2005? What was your job every day?

My job as the mayor of Disneyland was to, every morning, stand in Town Square and give a speech to the crowd, welcoming them to Disneyland as the Big Five, as we called them, were standing behind me. The Big Five were talking about Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Pluto, Goofy. Boom. That just rolled off your tongue. Do you remember any of the speech? Yeah. 50 years ago, on July 17th, 1955, Walt Disney stood here in Town Square and dedicated Disneyland to, and that's as much as I remember.

Well, that's fine because we're out of time, right, Jesse? Yeah. Yeah, you bet we are. because we're out of time, right, Jesse? Yeah. Yeah, you bet we are. If you want to submit a case to Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHo, or email us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org.

We love to get your cases. We read every single one. In fact, Hodgman reads them personally and even responds to some of them that we don't use. So email them to Hodgman at MaximumFun.org or use that convenient form at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. And you might find your case either on the air here in the docket or in the New York Times magazine. You can follow us on social media and name our cases by going to Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman or following me and Hodgman on Twitter.

I'm at Jesse Thorne. Hodgman is at Hodgman. And Gagliardi, are you on Twitter? I am at Mark Gags. And you can find our special thanks this week to Christopher Nordstrom who named this week's case as

though he needs anything above and beyond being heir to the Nordstrom's fortune. Cold, Jesse. What's that? That was cold. Yeah, well, I'm as cold to him as Nordstrom's legendary customer service is warm to their customers.

Well played. Can I tell you, one time my dad bought a pair of shoes at Nordstrom and wore it for a year, year and a half, every day, and then wore it to Southeast Asia. And just somewhere in the jungle in Southeast Asia, the soul started to peel away. And he took it back to Nordstrom. Sorry to buzzmark it. He took it back to Nordstrom and said, hey, the soul started to peel away and he took it back to Nordstrom. Sorry to buzz market. He took it back to Nordstrom and said, hey, the soul started to peel away from this while I was hiking in the jungle in Southeast Asia. And they said, oh, what size is it?

And they gave him a new pair. Wow. Yeah, like he was not asking for a new pair. I want to be clear about that. He thought maybe he could send it back to be refurbished or something like that. They just gave him a new pair. Look, we've all been wrestling with some big brands tonight. Big brands.

But I think we've been fair in our assessments of their strengths and weaknesses. And I hope that I will be allowed to go to Disneyland again. As mayor, I am giving you a pardon, a full pardon. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I will not go. Club 33 has been remodeled and made larger. And so I am sad that I will never get to go to the Club 33 as it existed all those years that I really wanted to go to it. And so I am saying publicly out of spite, I will never go to Club 33 unless someone invites me to go with them. And then I will go. Would you like to go to Club 33, John?

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You're welcome. Now let's find someone who has a membership. Our producer is Julia Smith. Our editor is Mark McConville. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We'll talk to you next week. Bye. Bye.