Judge John Hodgman - Right of Shirts Refusal

Episode Date: May 13, 2020

Lana brings the case against her husband, Daniel. On their next family vacation, Lana wants her family of four to wear matching t-shirts. Daniel and the kids are opposed! Who's right? Who's wrong?Thank you to Megan Hodgkiss for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, right of shirts refusal. Lana brings the case against her husband, Daniel. On their next family vacation, Lana wants the family of four to wear matching t-shirts. Daniel and the kids are opposed. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Since it all started in 2013, there have been a ton of clubs, but most of them don't make it past a few months. However, those of us that are successful, we're a fiercely loyal and protective group of Judge John Hodgman fans. We hang out in the parks with our own clubs and other ones.

We take over rides. We dance in the back lot, make a lot of magic and a little teeny bit of mischief, and just enjoy hanging out with other people who are as crazy about Judge John Hodgman as we are. With Judge John Hodgman Clubs, you find yourself immersed in a world where Judge John Hodgman is your home and the clubs are your family and friends. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Lana, Daniel, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever.

We do. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that since the last time he recorded a case with actual litigants, his bailiff forgot how to put a joke in this part of the show? Yes, I do. Yes. Daniel, I want to hear a yes. Yes, absolutely. Joke or not. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Well, I want to hear a yes. Yes, absolutely. Joke or not. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Well, I won't tell you to be seated, Daniel and Lana, because I can see that you are, because this is the very first teleconferenced episode of Judge John Hodgman.

I'm speaking to you, as always, from my reinforced chambers here in Brooklyn. Jesse Thorne, you are at home. Jennifer Marmer, super producer, is at her home. And Daniel and Lana are at their home, I believe in Queens, New York. Is that correct? Correct, yes. Terrific.

Well, it's nice to see you. It's distracting, I'll tell you this much. Normally I'm used to recording this podcast while staring dead into space like a shark, like a great white shark circling a verdict. Now we're here and we're all going to go easy on each other, Jesse. That's the whole point. We're all doing the best we can.

So for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either you, Daniel or Lana, name the piece of culture that I referenced? And if neither of you can, I'm canceling the podcast. I take it back. Because we're all tired. Lana, you go first. Wow. I don't think it's right, but I'm going to guess Goonies.

Goonies. Yes. Yeah. It's about a club. Yeah. You know. Yeah. It's about a club. Yeah. It's about a club. You know? Yeah.

And your instincts are correct that I have substituted Judge John Hodgman for another more recognizable piece of culture that would have given it away. I hate to admit that there are no packs of Judge John Hodgman fans taking over parks and causing mischief. Daniel, what's your guess? That is, in fact, a quote from a journal entry of the first round of Club D23 at Disney World membership. Club D23. Look, I'm not saying You're right or wrong but I don't know

What you're talking about what are you talking about That is a secret exclusive club In Disney World That was founded by Walt himself in Disneyland And they have a special Entrance right by Pirates of the Caribbean Oh you mean Club 33

Club 33 my bad How dare you Daniel Club 23. Club 33. My bad. How dare you, Daniel? How dare you? Club 23 was actually the pre-version. The precursor? Yeah. Sure. Sure.

I saw where you were going with that. A D23 is what you need to play the new Warhammer. Yes. Tabletop gaming, John. Tabletop gaming joke. You're back, Jesse Thorne. You're back, my bailiff. That was my

little tribute to our friend stewart wellington from the flop house there we go you know a little tabletop gaming joke club 30 you can't tell me about club 33 daniel oh i've always wanted to go always wanted to go it was reading about club 33 the the unmarked private dining club in new orleans square in disneyland i read about it in the book by william poundstone big secrets The unmarked private dining club in New Orleans Square in Disneyland. I read about it in the book by William Poundstone, Big Secrets, I'm going to say in 1987 or 88, that set me down the road of my fascination with secret clubs, rooms, and societies, and then led me to write my first book of obscure made-up trivia of the areas of my expertise. A direct line.

So, that's a good guess john you know my jordan jesse go co-host jordan morris has been in club 33 uh when he was in when we were in college he dated a young lady named emily really cool lady and her dad was an executive at kodak then now now defunct, then a big sponsor of Disneyland. And so she could go to Club 33 whenever she wanted. Yeah. And you know what? I envy Jordan because I cannot go to Club 33. A, because the parks are closed right now, appropriately so.

B, because some years ago, Daniel and Lana, you may or may not know, but Disneyland closed Club 33 and expanded it. And they changed the entrance and they made it larger so they could admit more members. And now that the original club is no longer the same footprint i will never set foot in it no matter how many times you invite me disney i will not go unless i am actually invited then i'll probably go yeah just try him disney just yeah we'll see what happens yeah that's right offer me modok in uh iron man 19 or whatever see what

happens offer me a role see what i'll probably say yes okay daniel and lana both good guesses daniel that was a extremely good guess right on the money for what i was thinking of but you're wrong and the show is now canceled thanks to you daniel i'm on the last ever judge john hodgman show in the books shut it down no we'll go on i was quoting from the about page of a website called social clubsofdisney.com for while there is one official secret club of disneyland club 33 there are certainly at disneyland and probably disney world as well There is one official secret club of Disneyland, Club 33. There are certainly at Disneyland and probably Disney World as well. Multiple, many, many, many, many other unofficial semi-secret clubs.

Actually, not so secret at all, because starting in 2013, starting with a group called the Neverlanders SC, Neverlanders Social Club, a bunch of Southern Californian people, young folk in their 20s and 30s, started wearing denim vests and leather vests like biker gangs without landish patches. They created their own essentially motorcycle clubs, but just for no motorcycles, just wandering through Disneyland together with, with greaser hair. And this is the subject of the new sons of anarchy spinoff, right?

It is. It is. Holy moly. I mean, this is going to be, honestly, this is going to be the next Tiger King. Tiger King?

Tiger King. Oh, God, no. Lana, I think you just lost the case. That was my fear. I think you just lost the case. Because I only learned about these clubs from our friend Jessica, quote, Jesse, unquote, Char, frequent Max Fun Con attendee and a friend of mine and a Disneyland devotee. She goes to Disneyland all the time. She sometimes dresses up, but mostly is just fascinated with the parks.

And she told me about these social clubs and she told me about how, in fact, I mean, there are lots of them. I'm just going to read a few of them to you. There are the Mr. Toad's Wild Riders. There are the Neverland Ghosts, the Neverland Mermaids, the Once Upon a Timers, Oogie Boogie's Dice Rollers, SC,

Park Hoppers, SC, Plaid Vest Mafia. That's a deep cut for Disneyland peopleland people for sure and then this is probably the dopest one of all the poor unfortunate souls wow and there are lots and lots of them they're unofficial and they're normally very friendly with each other but if you if you want to read an interesting article in los angeles times from 2018 uh you'll read about how two of them got into a feud. One of them alleging a essentially threatening the others with a protection racket for a fundraiser. It's really intricate, but the white rabbits,

let's just leave it at this. The white rabbits and the main street fire station five, five social clubs have beef. So don't stay, keep them apart from each other. And this all came up because your dispute is over dressing alike, particularly in visiting amusement parks, conventions and other things. Who brings this case before me for justice, please? That would be me. All right, Lana.

What is the issue here? Lana, what is the issue here? Well, the issue is that we go to at least once, twice, maybe more times a year. We really like family vacations. This is a classic once, twice, three times a maybe. See, I can do wordplay too. Daniel, watch it. Watch it.

I don't want to have to quit but i will jesse thorne i cannot see via video right now but i can i am having a good time imagining his face when i made that joke lana what's going what's going on twice, three times a maybe, you go to a park, you're married to each other. And you know, you see those families that have the matching shirts and they have the cute, maybe cheesy little sayings with their names on the back

and they're all matching. You know, I've always wanted that. Some people might look at that and think it's ridiculous. I think it's absolutely amazing. And every time we go, whether it's to Disney, which usually we go to Disney a lot

because we're big Disney fans, but whether it's Dollywood or Universal, I've tried, I've put it out there. I've even said, you know, you guys could come up with the cool shirts if you want. And they absolutely refuse. I am shut down. So wait, when you say you guys,

you were talking about Daniel, your husband, and you have two children. Is that correct? And yes. My two kids, Lillian and Dave. And you would like to force them to all dress the same as a family team when you go to, say, Dollywood or Disneyland. Well, when you say force, it doesn't sound so good. But yes. Well, encourage.

Yes. Strong, encourage. Yes, strongly encourage. Encourage forcefully. Guilt in. That's fine, too. I think, John, to clarify, they go to Dollywood or Disney or Universal. Shortening the name of the park is the wearing matching T-shirts of saying the name of a theme park. You know, you're deep into park life when you can just say Universal.

When you say Universal, do you mean Universal Studios amusement tour or whatever it is in California or in Florida? Florida. Since we're originally from Florida and we live on the East Coast, we've only been to Disneyland once when we lived in Arizona. Right. Okay. Gotcha. I'm going to Marine, by the way. That's Marine World, Africa, USA, and Philadelphia, California.

Marine. Okay, you've moved all over the place. What are you running from anyway? Apparently, we're running from success. We moved around a lot because of my job, so it's taken us across the country quite a few times. Yes. What is your job, if I may ask? I'm a former actor. Now I am a business consultant for the auto industry in the U.S. That sounds very mysterious.

What do you specifically do? So I specifically help train dealers to conduct themselves in a ethical, compliant manner. I bet your acting degree comes in handy. I would say that the listening part for sure comes in well. Okay, that's fine. And Lana, what do you do during normal times? Now is an unusual time in our history. But in the before times when the idea of going to an amusement park was something more than a thought experiment, what would you do? Actually, I used to teach at a university and then, well, for other reasons, I ended up being a stay-at-home mom.

And now that my kids are grown, I have actually a YouTube channel and a cooking channel that does pretty well. So I do that now. And I hope to go back into teaching. I think that's worth a plug. What is the channel? It's Lana Under Pressure. Uh-huh. Lana Under Pressure. That's a great title for a thing. This is a submarine

cooking channel? Kind of. I converted my family's Cuban and Jewish recipes to the Instant Pot Pressure Cooker and now I do also the Instant Pot air fryer and all that. Do you get like a lot of sponsorship from Instant Pot? You know, I don't.

I actually receive free things from other companies, but Instant Pot, they gave me an apron, but... Come on, Instant Pot. Get your act together. I have not watched the YouTube, but I'm going to give it the Judge John Hodgman cautious seal of approval because you seem adorable. Thank you.

So let's talk through this, Lana. So I have a picture of exactly what your desires in life are. Yes. If you were to go, obviously we're in fantasy land right now because no one's going to any parks. Fantasyland right now because no one's going to any parks. But let's say Instapot came through finally and said, you're going to three parks of your choice. Top park you would go to first and outfit would be?

Do you mean it would be Walt Disney World or do you, are you talking about the parks within like Epcot or just in general, Walt Disney World? Would you have different outfits for Epcot? Yeah, because that's more global. Let's just say Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World. Your classic straight down the middle Disney theme park iconic. What would you have your family dress up like?

Oh, I would like to do something Hawaiian theme because we really like that side, the Jungle Cruise and all that. And, you know, I'm being nice because my son likes kind of Hawaiian prints. So, you know, I think about their wants too. So I think maybe like matching kind of like Hawaiian shirts, maybe with, you know, Perez Power on the back or something like that. That would, you know, Perez Power on the back or something like that.

That would be your name, Perez Power? That's kind of like our unofficial, my unofficial motto for our family. Perez Power? I try to sneak it in. I'm trying to get them to use it too, but it's not working. But yes, Perez is our last name. Yes. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Let me give you a hint. Don't put that on the back. Put LanaUnder under pressure.com now we're talking would they be matching hawaiian print shirts or complimentary hawaiian print shirts well i would prefer matching so that people know that we're a family you know like we're all together right and there's no way to do that by like showing love or holding hands or being together. Let's move on from the gently problematic cultural appropriation area of Adventureland. Everyone's heart's in the right place here.

So let's just move over to park number two. What would be the number two park you would go to and what would be the outfit you would like to curate for them? I would probably put Universal Studios next. Universal Studios in Florida again, right? Yes. I got to tell you something. I've never been to Universal Studios in Florida, but I've been to Disneyland a few times.

I've been to Universal Studios in California a few times. Universal Studios in California is a times. Universal Studios in California is a lawless land. It's the escalators. It makes everyone mad. They serve alcohol there. Things are popping off at Universal Studios. And my kids and I found a way, following the rules, we had a certain path that allowed us to do this that we found a secret path back to the front of the line of the jurassic park line and we just went we just zipped around in a circle and did it four times in a row that's not something that a human should a brain should take in like that like that place is wild like wild that's where

people should be wearing biker gang gear because it's they should just turn it all into mad max land all right anyway universal studios what would you everyone be dressed like what i don't know are we going to wizarding world of harry potter oh that's right yes there you go i totally forgot but yes it would definitely be harry pot. Thank you. Nothing conjures the magic of the village of Hogsmeade than people wandering around with tall boys of Modelo beer, which you can get from a cart. That's what I'm talking about. Universal Studios. Anyway, I love that place. It's fun. You're basically looking for matching t-shirts here, right?

Not matching cosplay. Yes. No, no. We don't have to all. No. Don't roll your eyes, Dan. No, I'm not asking. Let the record show, for the first time in Judge John Hodgman history, I witnessed visually a dude rolling his eyes.

I mean, I'm not saying we have to cosplay it, you know, or anything like that. Matching shirts is fine. In fact, at Disney, you wouldn't be allowed to. You wouldn't. You'd have to do like Disney bounding where you like sort of kind of. You know what I'm talking about. Tell us what bounding is. Oh, that's where you dress up with a nod to the character to get

through the entrance right and everybody knows that you're dressed up but you're not really dressed it's like dressing up like yeah because disney doesn't let you dress up as characters for for obvious reasons i found out that the hard way when i when i wore a loincloth and claimed to be tarzan and the Tarzan treehouse that time. Tried to upcharge everybody 20 bucks cash. They'll throw you out. Take advantage of that. So what you're talking about is bounding, right?

Which is where, and I learned about this from Jesse Char too, is where like if you want to seem like Snow White, you're going to wear like red lipstick and then a blue top. And then, well, I don't know. What's a Snow White look like? What's her what's her skirt look like? You know this. Come on. Isn't it isn't Snow White's blue? Her colors are blue, red, white and yellow. Right. So you can wear like a little red headband with some lipstick, a little yellow somewhere, a little blue skirt, something like that. Right. Yeah. That's how's that sound? That sounds good to me. I think that sounds great. You should all go that way. Should all wear those colors. Let's take a quick recess. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware dot com. Court is back in session. Let's return to the courtroom to hear more of the case. Daniel and Lana, you did provide some evidence. In fact, evidence of the two of you dressing, wearing matching T-shirts in the past. Yes.

Lana, you submitted this evidence. Here's you and Dan at age 16 yes wowee you guys have known each other forevers and it looks like if i'm if i'm not mistaken this is the two of you you're both wearing head-to-toe denim and you're attending the 2001 American Music Awards? That was the first time that I've ever worn a matching shirt with anyone. And it is a Phantom of the Opera shirt at a high school musical theater competition in Tampa, Florida.

That was our state competitions. And if you look closely into my eyes, Judge Hodgman, you can see what's happening there. Of course, this photo and all the photos will be posted on the JudgeJenHodgmanPayToMaximumFun.org as well as our Instagram page. Look at these two.

What's happening in your eyes is you're like, I happen to be a jock. For the record, I'm about 6'3", and Lanaana is uh well she's not as tall she's she comes up to your armpit you're wearing matching phantom of the opera t-shirts and dan is the look in your eyes to me is a look of both resignation that this is how you're going to spend the rest of your life. And behind that, a certain happiness. Yes, this is a young man who met his soulmate.

Right. And didn't want to mess it up. You were willing to do anything. Including a Phantom of the Opera t-shirt. Yeah, but I appreciate that this was something of a big ask but when you're 16 and a and someone that you have a crush on asks you to do such a thing you do it agree the the real question i have here is did lana ask you to tuck in the t-shirt into your belted jeans or or was that your call i'm gonna say to say yes. Remember you're under fake oath.

No, that was a personal choice. That was a personal choice. Look, it was a long time ago. It was a long time ago. Daniel, where would you have drawn the line? I see the Phantom of the Opera t-shirt here. I see a Gershwin t-shirt here. Oh, yes.

Crazy for you. That was the next year, I think. Would you, if she had asked you to wear a Starlight Express t-shirt, Andrew Lloyd Webber's legendary Sentient Train musical, would you have worn that? So I was a young kid from a very poor neighborhood in Hylia, Florida, who didn't know much about musicals. So, Jessie, I probably would have worn whatever she asked me to. I would have gone for The Rink. You would have gone for what? The Rink.

You know, the musical The Rink. I do not. Oh, fantastic. What is that one? It's about an Italian family that owns a roller skating rink. Wait a minute, you're telling me. So, for people who don't know Jesse's reference, Andrew Lloyd Webber,

creator of cats followed up that musical with a music was like, you know what I'm going to do now, now that I've made cats sing, you don't want to make sing next trains. Could be all these sentient trains rolling around, singing about being a train. And when I say rolling around, I mean rolling around, because the entire cast was on roller skates. And now you're telling me there's another musical based on roller skating? John, it's the ninth longest running production in West End history, and the most successful musical in Germany, where it's been performed in a purpose-built theater since 1988.

The workshop of Starlight Express featured Tracy Ullman. Of course. If you were Tracy Ullman in 1988 or whatever, and you were a fresh young talent, and Andrew Lloyd Webber came a call in saying i made jesus christ superstar i made cats i'm andrew lloyd weber and i got the rights to adapt thomas the tank engine it's based on thomas the tank engine i'm not making it up john it really is no it's not no it is it really is wow well we all learned something today about starlight express i love it even more choo-choo so okay look again here you are you're not in starlight express t-shirts

now it's the year following 17 year old young people in love now you're wearing the new you're matching shirts from the new gershwin musical comedy, Crazy for You. Fast forward, more matching shirts. Now you're adults. You're wearing matching disco shirts. And by disco, I don't mean the music. I mean Star Trek Discovery, correct? That's right. Now, this has to be fairly recently that you've done this, Dan.

In fact, Your Honor, I'd like to point out that there is a 28-year gap between our matchy-matchy shirts and the one that we wore to watch a taping of After Trek. So we all, we made those shirts. I see. That's only because I'm usually the photographer and I don't take a lot of pictures in between that time. So I'm sure that had I done that, there would have been times where I talked somebody into it. I'm sure. Then the sins of the father were visited upon the younger generation. Your daughter and son bent to your will again, Lana. Here in a photo of you guys at a New Jersey Performing Arts Center Harry Potter in concert,

you're all wearing your respective Hogwarts houses garb. Yes. And there you are again, Dan, in your Gryffindor shirt being a good sport. And then finally, well, semi-finally, incredible family Halloween costuming as a Beetlejuice and Alec Baldwin and Gina Davis and Winona Ryder from Beetlejuice, your whole family. Which one are you in this one, Dan? So I'm playing the Alec Baldwin character. Yeah. But your, your face is all turned inside out like in Beetlejuice. This is some incredible costuming. Is this your home in Queens? That's our home in Queens. And, uh, every Halloween we try to go all out and we play

a movie on our front window so the kids can watch and we make it a whole event. When you say we try to go all out, do you mean Lana forces you all to go all out? Yes. Come on. Okay. Yes, it did start like I did push for the all out but they really like my daughter loves how everybody loves halloween that's like their favorite so it wasn't that hard to push them into it and yes so i pushed us into slowly morphing into like a family themed halloween where we all kind of you know before it was like we dressed up as clowns and my kids could kind of dress up as what they wanted, sort of. This is the first year where I was able to pick a theme where they all got on board.

And I made those costumes. I mean, everyone needs to check this out because you guys look great. And then finally, a family portrait of your whole family in the style of The Simpsons, including a mischievous dog. Yes. Who is not Santa's little helper too, but what is the name of your dog? Daisy Mae.

Oh, Daisy Mae. Does she always wear a bow tie or just in this instance? Actually, her collar, that is a Minnie Mouse bow tie collar. Yes. That she wears in real life as well, not just in this. That she wears in real life, yes. Did the two of you commission this family portrait to celebrate Disney purchasing Fox? That's fail if Jesse Thorne's joke, Disney.

Please don't fire me from culture i'd like to work again please it's just some of my my classic humor for hollywood reporter readers it's an adorable illustration of your family in the classic homer marge uh lisa bart couch tv position in the style of The Simpsons. Those are your two kids. Do you mind saying their names, their first names? Oh, sure. Lillian, she's my daughter, and Daniel is my son.

And their ages? Oh, my daughter just turned 19 and my son just turned 16. They're young and at least in one case legal adults who can make up their own minds, for example, about how they dress. All right. I have a letter from your kids, which I'll read in a moment. But Lana, what does it mean to you to be able to dress all alike, especially now that your kids are a little bit older? What would it mean to you to be able to go to any of these parks and get you all to wear matching outfits?

I really, really love my family. And we're really tight. We've moved around probably to seven different places. So it's kind of like the four of us are all we have. And, you know, Dan and I came from divorced parents. So, you know, we never had that whole thing. And just, I don't know, there's something about it where we're all dressing alike. It just kind of makes me feel even closer to them. And as they get older, like like I said, I was a stay at home mom. So I was with them. We made the decision and I was with them 24 seven. And, you know, I'm a Cuban Jewish mom. So I was really on top of them, you know, but it's like my whole world. And now that they're older and I have one that's off to college and one who'll be going off to college soon.

I don't know. I just feel like this pull to kind of the more they pull away, the more I'm getting off a cliff right now. But, you know, the more I want to, I don't know. I just want to keep the Perez family kind of together. And I feel like if we're wearing matching shirts, not only do we know, you know, we're together, but it's just, you know, it's our uniform. We're the Perez's. You feel your nest emptying. You feel your family moving into a new phase. You feel your family moving into a new phase and you want for at least one hot, humid, crowded afternoon to be in a constructed world where you're all together visibly. Yes.

Right. Yes. So, Dan, you heard how Lana put it, which I thought was very moving. You heard how I put it, which was frankly a pretty good punch up from a professional writer. But that doesn't mean that the emotion wasn't there. And my question for you is, how do you feel when you hear this? Does it make you feel differently about this request? So I love my wife. She is my soulmate. She's wonderful. She is the most optimistic person I've ever known. Her optimism is not just a superficial Pollyanna. She truly finds joy in the simple things in life. I tend to overcomplicate things. So I definitely do appreciate how much she loves the family and

has that sense of unity, but there is nothing I find more obnoxious than a family wearing matching t-shirts at Disney World or anywhere else. I mean, we get it. We know you're together. You came together. It is obvious. When you go to Disney World or any of these parks and you see families wearing team family shirts or jumpsuits or that would be pretty cool jumpsuits hang on like cool venture brothers speed suits that'd be cool but when anyway when you see them what is your instinctive feeling when you see these families i feel like the family's trying

too hard right i feel like it is an outward expression of of quote unquote what a family should be and not necessarily anything meaningful to those people wearing the shirts. I think even when they go as a convention or a family group, they're wearing the shirts because they want to be identified. Does it feel show-offy to you? It feels a little show-offy to me. Also, I guess instinctually as a kid when I went to Disney, also i guess instinctually as a kid when i went to disney well you know we didn't have money to to buy anything at disney or do anything so right uh the idea of making a shirt and creating it and taking another just seems very extra oh interesting so like there's a class issue here there's a little bit of like you didn't have you didn't have money to go out and commission matching speed suits, like I'm suggesting.

Like, you were just lucky to be there. And that was enough. You know, we grew up in the same place, so he can't. Well, what I'm struck by is a man trying to convince us of a class argument against being extra who has a master's degree in theater. Jesse, that's an MFA actually. Would you feel very self-conscious wearing one of these shirts? Would you not be able to enjoy yourself? I think I could enjoy myself. I think I could do it. However, I think there are other things that we can do that show unity as a family and creativeness that isn't as saccharine, that isn't as I feel superficial. There's an authenticity that's lost when you force the group to do something together, right?

We can find a way to get everything you want to do, but do it in a way that everyone can express their own personalities and creativeness. And I would argue that that would make them even more involved and more want to participate in these family outings, especially as our daughter's going off to college. What are you arguing for? Complicated secret i wouldn't mind saying we're gonna go dressed in a general theme let's just say hey we're all gonna let's wear we're going to harry potter world so let's wear harry potter shirts i don't mind doing that it's just the the perez power on the t-shirt seems a little much to me i think it's lana under pressure.com now is what we decided on, but okay. Well, good news for you, Dan.

Your children agree with you. We have here an exhibit, a letter, an affidavit from your children, Dan Jr. and Lily, and I'll read it. The reason as to why we prefer not to wear matching shirts, especially when going to a theme park, i.e. Disney, Universal. Boy, they're your kids, all right. Is because... Disney, Universal, Marine.

Marine. Ep. That's short for Epcot. Can't think of another one. Act. That's short for the late lamented Action Park, New Jersey, also known as Traction Park. Traction Park, yes.

A lot of people got bad, bad bruises and burns. The reason we prefer not to wear matching shirts is because it is flat out obnoxious. We understand that wearing matching shirts to a convention or other event is appropriate. However, if we were to listen to our mom's plan and wear something that is themed specifically for our family, such as a last name or a family slogan, LanaUnderPressure.com, it comes off as very annoying. The reason for this is whenever we see a family with matching shirts,

it's as if they're screaming, we a better more perfect family than you that's i that's my acting how did i do good i don't have an mfa or whatever no i've got a phone call here from disney they say you're hired oh boy we don't care how good your relationship is with your family members we just want to wait on five hour lines to go on rides and of course at the end of the day it's a little embarrassing since we're such a small family. We can see if you're a huge group and need to spot people in a crowded park by having matching shirts. But there are four of us. It seems extreme, irritating and dumb. Thanks, Daniel and Lily.

Wow. Strong. It's a strong argument. Dumb. Your children say it's dumb. Teenagers. Boy, oh boy, Lana. I think that the concern is that it feels performative.

He's an actor. My daughter goes to school for theater. And my son does background work in movies. That's work. This is play. This is play. You just want to disappear into the crowd all right and as for my verdict i'm gonna have to go into my chambers in a moment before i do lana this is all a thought experiment right now if i were to rule in your favor however

what precisely would you have me rule that at, and I'm only asking for one day during our vacation. So not the whole vacation, just one day that we wear matching family themed shirts that are matching. And then once a year we take one good quality, like, you know, like professional quality, cheesy family photo. The reason I got the Simpsons one done is because they refused to do those, you know, like the professional photos on the beach where everybody's wearing the white shirts and the jeans. Kill me. Kill me. You know that everybody has in their living room.

I don't have those. So this was kind of, you know, it's like, well, nobody can say no because it was all me just sending the artist pictures and they couldn't say no. That sounds so sad. Well, but it's the only family. You didn't want this Simpsons family photo? I love the Simpsons. And in fact, it was a Father's Day gift to me. Right.

So I loved it. She did it as a surprise. What I don't want to do is the matching all white on the beach awkward family photo all right first of all uh lana you can't introduce a new request at the end of the case i'm hearing one case at a time here and i'm gonna say what is it white t-shirt and jeans on a beach? That is correct. No, that's not going to happen. Sorry. Okay, so then just matching theme shirts, but we'll take a picture at the park. So that way we'll have a picture of us all matching. How about that? All right, I feel that.

Daniel, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? I've already ruled against t-shirt and jeans on the beach. Family photo. Thank you. And I recognize that and appreciate it. If you rule in my favor, I would ask that we find a different way that is not requiring

everyone to wear the exact matching shirt. I would also request that we do not come up with a family superhero slogan, especially Perez Power. But I really, I will follow your advice, Judge Hodgman, your ruling. I just feel like there are other ways

that we can accomplish the same thing. But what is the way? Well, that's a good question. You come to me with no alternative no alternative your honor i really don't have an alternate solution i'm just asking for no matchy match and no no matchy match no matchy he wants to save perez power so he can trade market for his business consultant with my p Perez power system, your ethics are going to go sky high. You will be moving Kia Sorentos faster than ever, but this time by telling the truth.

Is that a car is Kia Sorento? It is. That was accurate. Okay. I know. Right. Accurate. Okay. phew that's the first thing i care about in this podcast all right i've heard everything i need to in order to make my

decision who am i kidding i'm not going anywhere you can see where i am there's no there's no magic anymore we're all just peering into each other's lives as we sit here in our pajamas but i'm going to think for a minute i'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Lana, how are you feeling about your chances here? I'm not feeling good, actually. I thought when I started, when I wrote it out to send it, I was like, of course they're going to rule for my, like, why wouldn't they want to rule for a cute family to wear just matching shirts together as a family walking through the park how sweet and now i don't know

not feeling good bailiff daniel how are you feeling i'm not feeling good either i don't think i thought this through i don't think there's a this is a no-win scenario for danny boy over here we do try and make sure judge john hodgman is in everybody loses situation i think we're going to be both mutually dissatisfied do you think your family could maybe start a new disneyland gang do you think that might be in the cards oh my that would be awesome i would be so into that while he was talking about the jean jackets i was already putting them together in my head oh i got my bedazzler out i'm ready she's not even

kidding oh you know what i want to do i want to join one of these you know they have rockabilly gangs in contemporary tokyo yes i want to join one of these modern rockabilly gangs i met a few of these japanese rockabilly guys at like menswear things that have giant pompadours and stuff it's the greatest i mean it's completely ridiculous but it is fantastic okay well we'll see what judge hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every

Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So this has been a very tough one to consider because not because I don't feel a basic emotional response to these arguments.

I mean, I look at this family drawn in the style of the Simpsons and these kids are big. They're growing up. They're going away. And this is going to be hard. Like, you know, we have kids who are sort of a little bit behind your kids and we're getting ready to lose them. And it's a very heavy thing to think about. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you don't know what it's like because your kids are all under the age of 10

and I'm so much happier to be me because it's hard hard in a different way to have kids under all i do is long for my kids to leave yeah yeah it's a look there are a lot of emotions in parenting and baseline like you should do what your mom wants you to do. Wear a shirt, make her happy. It's a baseline emotional response. The hard part was to figure out there are so many different ways that with my ruling, I could make you all miserable for my own amusement.

I could order you guys to go to Disney World all wearing Phantom of the Opera t-shirts as an homage matching Looney Tunes gear you could all be wearing Starlight Express shirts but I realized that making your kids wear that Phantom of the Opera shirt, while it would be wonderfully humiliating to them,

it would not honor the truth of your relationship, which is that it started when you were young and when, Dan, you were a little bit more pliable, a little bit more agreeable. It started long before you knew that you were going to have kids. And it represents a period of time going into the future when, you know, those kids will be off into their own lives. And all you guys will have are the two of you and your phantom shirts. So their kids don't deserve to wear a Phantom of the Opera t-shirt.

That's for you to alone. So then I'm like, well, then what am I going to do? Because the other aspect of it is this, Lana. aspect of it is this, Lana, if I get everyone to wear a matching Perez Power t-shirt and give you exactly what you want, I get it. I get the idea of having your family together, fulfilling your dream in a dream world that isn't going to last. I don't think you're going to be able to handle it lana i think you're going to break down the minute you see it i think you're just you're starting to cry now i can see it you're crying just talking about it this is going to be waterworks the entire time there's going to be a whole splash mountain coming out of your face that's how bad it's gonna be and also that's

gonna be hard i mean maybe cathartic but i'm i'm worried of finding in your favor under the the request that you've made because i think it's gonna be a really heavy day in the magic kingdom and, these kids, they're adults now. They can't be dressed by their mom. They gotta be able to pick their own lives now. You had a chance.

You had your chance to make them wear a thing. Ages zero through probably 12. That was your chance. Probably the boy until 16, right? Because he probably didn't even know where his shirts were. So he needed you. And Daniel is a part, you know, you've done the damage.

You've made him wear Phantom of the Opera before. He's done his work. He wants to experience himself. Experience it in his own way. So here's what I'm going to say. I will not allow matching t-shirts with Perez power. However,

Dan, you are the author of your own fate. Welcome to your new gang, the Tigger King's Social Club. That's amazing. Yes. How can I not?

It's just too compelling an idea. Jessie Char is also an extremely talented designer. I'm going to consult with her to design a Tigger King's Social Club patch for you. I know a guy who makes patches. It's going to be a recognizable patch that you're all going to wear on a piece of clothing when you go. Oh, my goodness. That's awesome. That way, you, Dan, Dan Jr., and Lily can all style themselves however they want, but they got to wear the Tigger Kings SC patch.

And meanwhile, in the traditions of moms embarrassing their children and husbands through time immemorial, you get out your bedazzler and your denim vest and you do it up that's called lana under pressure.com this is the sound of a gavel judge john hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom lana i heard you scream in exaltation i was trying to stay quiet but that was amazing dan how do you feel i feel like i'm going to be wearing a denim jacket bedazzled you don't have to wear a denim jacket bedazzled oh i don't my jacket no anyone can do whatever they want god bless you sir You could wear a jumpsuit. That's my recommendation.

I think you should dress up like a tiger. I think it's a fair decision. I think it's a fair decision. Everybody's going to be able to express themselves. This is going to be a great time. Are you happy? Yes. Yes.

Lana, Daniel, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Daniel, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Another Judge John Hodgman case, kapow, in the books. Before we dispense swift justice, our thanks to Megan Hodgkiss for naming this week's episode Right of Shirts Refusal.

If you want to name a future episode just like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out calls for submissions there. You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out calls for submissions there. You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO. And check out the MaxFun subreddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com to chat about this episode. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman, as well as on our personal accounts at John Hodgman and at PutThisOn. Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff.

Our producer is the ever capable Ms. Jennifer Marmer, as aided by a giant barrel of pretzels that her dad sent her. And hey, Jesse, let me also plug the Instagram of Jesse Char, our friend. Thank you so much, Jesse, for all the deep background information on the social clubs at Disney.

Jesse Char is doing some amazing stuff. She is of Hawaiian heritage. And she's doing some amazing stuff about Hawaiian food ways and cooking in her own personal bunker over there in San Francisco. And it's all on her Instagram. It's at Jesse, J-E-S-S-I-E. She was an early adopter. Check her out. She's great. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment. Kaida asks, is a book a device? I say yes, because it's a form of technology. My friend said no, because it's not mechanical or electronic.

Ha! Wow. I had forgotten that we did Swift Justice. I had forgotten to even check this one before we recorded it. And it is a true throwback to Is a Machine Gun a Robot? Is a book a device? Uh...

What do you think, Jesse? I don't think that it is. I think a device. I mean, let me put it this way. Would you call it a gizmo? I certainly wouldn't call it a gizmo. Then you can't call it a device. Sorry, Gaida.

I'm with the bailiff on this one. If it's a device, it's a gizmo. That's it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.