Judge John Hodgman - Sing the Wall Song

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

It's time to clear the docket! It's another edition of JUVENILE COURT with Guest Judge Oscar Thorn (age 9). Time travel artifacts, parents singing in public, swearing along to song lyrics, cat limits, banana bread, and text interpretation. Plus much more! Do parents understand? Oscar will be the judge!Judge John Hodgman is bringing LIVE JUSTICE back on the road!Sat 1/28/23 – Wheeler Theater in Port Townsend, WASun 1/29/23 – Neptune Theatre in SeattleTue 1/31/23 – Revolution Hall in Portland, ORThurs 2/2/23 – Gothic Theatre in Denver, COSat 2/4/23 – Sydney Goldstein Theatre at San Francisco Sketchfest  We will also be adding a Los Angeles date to be announced soon! Tickets for SF Sketchfest are available now. General sale for tickets will start THIS FRIDAY, 12/9/22 but artist presale starts tomorrow, THURSDAY 12/8/22 at 10AM PST for Seattle, Portland, and Denver. Use the code ALLRISE for the presale!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week to clear the docket. And with me, as always, is the world's greatest father of two, Judge John Hodgman. I wish I could only live up to that barbecue apron, but that is I'm just I'm just doing the best I can, like any other parent. And Jesse, this is not a regular docket, is it? This is a very special docket. We're back in juvenile court. Dun dun. Is that the sound of juvenile court? That's the sound that I was asked to make for Dick Wolf's Law & Order Juvenile Court spinoff. Got it.

That did not get made. And it was not because it was maybe an unseemly topic for television because there's nothing too unseemly it's like they said why don't we get john hodgman to make that sound instead of having the regular synthesizer or whatever do it and they hired me to do it and it was so terrible but they canceled the show like many working actors lost good paying sag jobs and everyone wrote a letter to the producers saying, can't you just rerecord it? You already have the sound on file. They said, no, John Hodgman just ruined it and ruined the vibe. Anyway. Wow. Words. My son just brought himself onto the show unbidden.

So I'm going to introduce him. What is this? An episode of the dough boys? What is this, an episode of the Doughboys? No, this is the Judge John Hodgman Juvenile Court Edition. And joining me in the studio here at Maximum Fun is my son, Oscar, age eight. Nine. Nine, age nine. World's best dad of three. Honestly, Chessie Thorne, Oscar, I'm going to say this now in case you don't know it.

Your dad is a terrific dad. Thank you, John. Did you know that I'm John Hodgman's dad? That's right, Oscar. That's true. Oscar Thorne is here with me, my nine-year-old son. He's back on the podcast. He's been very excited to come back.

He's back on that pod. Oscar Thorne, friend of the court, hello. How are you? Good. What did you do today before this? Nothing. Okay. Nothing. You played Fortnite with your sibling. I did. The perfect conversation starter finally fails. That's because the wisdom of a child cannot be tricked, fooled. It cannot be buttered up. It cannot be talked down to. What does that mean?

It cannot be buttered up to. I do not know what that means. It means that you have a natural wisdom and you see through my bull feces. What are you saying? When John is full of baloney, you can tell. Okay. Yeah. What I'm saying is you're here to cut through the baloney.

We're going to hear a number of cases that have been submitted mostly by children, mostly against their parents. I'm excited. Yes. I think we know how you will rule. And some have been submitted by parents against their own children. And in a court of law, normally in this fake court of law, I decide who's right or who's wrong. But in this case, these kids deserve a jury of their peers. And even though you are peerless, you shall have the final ruling. Is that fair enough?

I have the power. You have the power, exactly. So let's get into it. Here's a case from Alec in Los Angeles. My father owns one of Stephen Hawking's time traveler party invitations. Oh boy, oh boy. You know Stephen Hawking? You a big Stephen Hawking fan, Oscar? I have no idea who that person is at all. Good.

Let me tell you. Stephen Hawking was a very famous... What was he famous? I mean, smarty pants. But was he an astrophysicist? A theoretical physicist? Both. A little of each. He was an incredibly smart person who thought about space and time.

He was the man behind the legendary film line As they approach the horizon of the black hole, they are turned into spaghetti. What is that? That's from a brief history of time, the Errol Morris movie of Hawking's famous book. They are turned into spaghetti. They are turned into, and he spoke with the aid of a machine.

So he sounded like a computer. And he was a theoretical physicist and cosmologist. He studied the cosmos, all of the stuff that makes up space and time. And he was very interested in time travel. Are you interested in time travel? Whatever I think about it, it twists up my brain. Yes, exactly. So get ready to get your brain twisted.

Because Stephen Hawking, a bit of a pip, a bit of a prankster, he decided that if time travel were real, he could hold a cocktail party for time travelers from the future and then hold the cocktail party and then send out invitations the next day. The theory being that the time travelers from the future would eventually get those invitations and travel back in time to the party that happened before he even sent out the invitations.

Oh my god. Or whatever, right? Wait, that's so confu- So he had the party and then the next day he sent out invitations because if you're in the future and you can travel back in time, you'd get the invitation So he had the party, and then the next day he sent out invitations. Because if you're in the future and you can travel back in time, you'd get the invitation.

It would be no problem to go to the party because you would just travel back in time to go to it. So guess how many people showed up to the party? Probably, like, a lot. From the future? No one from the future came to the party. It was just Stephen Hawking by himself and a sign saying— Wait, did he actually do it? Yeah, he did it. He had the party. He put up a sign saying, welcome time travelers. And I think he put out some hors d'oeuvres, some little snacks, some little nibbles, and maybe some sparkling cider. I don't know. Maybe a big bottle of

Johnny Walker Red. I don't know. You don't know. The point is no one showed up and Stephen Hawking had a good computerized chuckle to himself because he showed all of us who believe in time travel that we're full of poop. Yeah. So let's get to the case, Oscar. My father collects stuff like this. He sees this invitation as a historical artifact. I want to destroy it. Why? Well, I believe the internet will cease to exist in the next century, so there will be no digital record of the invitations. If there are no digital invitations and the physical invitations are also destroyed, it could explain why no one showed up at Hawking's party. My father wants to keep his treasure.

By destroying the invitation, I wish to light a spark of hope that there is still a possibility, even if it is only a sliver, that time travel is possible. Oh, wow, this got very confusing. You know what, let's just go with, yeah, let's destroy it. I think you've made Alec a very happy person. Look, Alec is 12 years old. Some people like to write long letters to the court of Judge Jen Hodgman. I love it. Destroy it.

We had to edit a little bit for space space here but one of alex's great sentences was this one you ready for this great sentence oscar yes this is alec writing the kid is going to destroy this invitation okay i am but a 12 year old but i do grasp the concepts of time travel alex theory is that if he destroys every physical invitation and the internet ceases to exist and there's no record of this party ever happening, then that would explain why no future time travelers ever got the invitation. And that's why Stephen Hawking was stood up. Okay. That makes sense now. You want him to destroy it then?

Yes. I like destruction. Just for the sake of destruction. You don't care about the time travel part. You know, I feel like there's a high possibility that this will go wrong and reality will collapse, but that's fine. Okay. Plus, I don't believe in any of this time travel stuff, so let's just choose one or the other and I choose destruction. All right.

Fair enough. Name the method of destruction. This is a paper invitation, I presume, that his dad got off of eBay or something. Do they own a wrecking ball? Would a wrecking ball destroy a paper invitation? Oh, that's true. Maybe you can use your hands. Just tear it up?

The wrecking balls of the body. And then you can just destroy it, throw it in the trash can, throw the trash can out the window, and then melt the trash can. What do you think, John? What do I think? Oh, yeah, I forgot. I forgot. I was just having a good time with my friends, the Thorns. Because I'll tell you what I think, John.

Yes. My son's fealty to destruction is second only to my fealty to stuff. As the proprietor of a vintage store, I could not in good conscience destroy something as cool as a time travel party invitation from Stephen Hawking. I mean, here's the thing. Alec has hope that time travel may be developed. Alec has hope that time travel may be developed. Stephen Hawking, a kind of a stick in the mud on this point, destroyed his hope to a certain degree by setting up the stunt of a dud of a party in order to cast doubt upon the idea of time travel from the future to the present.

This is confusing. I know, it's very confusing. This is a mean thing to do. This invitation is a memento of a kind of a mean-spirited prank, but it is part of history. I mean, what I would say to Alec is this. Your dad loves this thing. He loves this who also, I think, had a sense of humor. And I appreciate that. And you kind of don't want to destroy evidence that this person lived. I would suggest that it's possible that you could acknowledge that another solution for why no time travelers showed up at this party, which is simply that it was a dumb party. Yeah.

Nobody wanted to hang out with old Stephen Hawking. You probably would just talk about theoretical physics and what happens when you approach the event horizon of the black hole the whole time. And you're like, hey, how about if dinner turned into spaghetti? Yeah, right. I'm getting a little hungry here. If I'm he who remains at the end of time, Kang the Conqueror himself, and Alex's dad's physical invitation finally finds its way to me. I mean, I'd look at this thing. It's like, you know, I got a million invitations. I got a million things to do. Time travel could be expensive. It could be onerous. Like I turned down an invitation to go

to the bell house to see some of my favorite comedians and friends because it's below 50 degrees and seven blocks away there are a lot of reasons why no one would show up at this thing you don't have to destroy this physical invitation and what's more you don't have to destroy this physical invitation because there's still there's still invitations out there unless it becomes a quest alec unless you become like uh like liam neeson scouring all of europe for all of ill doers, obsessed with finding these invitations and destroying them. This one act of wanton destruction will bring you no justice and will bring Oscar only delight. That's it. Oscar is the jury of the peers in this case. So

the ruling stands. Alec, you have the right to destroy this thing. But I would just say, think again. You might want to remember your father in the future. You are a time traveler. You're traveling into the future. You might want to look back on this little thing that maybe your father had and think, geez, my dad sure was weird. Here's something from Maude in Ottawa, Ontario. My name is Maude. I'm in grade four.

When my mom and dad pick me up from after-school care, they insist on singing. Out loud while walking down the street. Often annoying songs, like Lucky Ducks from the Bob's Burgers movie. Please make them stop. Oscar, have you ever walked down the street with your dad and he sings a song out loud? No. No. Well, this is what...

We got Maude's parents to sing the song that drives Maude up a tree. This is what it sounds like when your parents sing out loud when you're walking to school. tree. This is what it sounds like when your parents sing out loud when you're walking to school. Some lucky ducks get all the luck, but that's not us. Unlucky schmucks. They didn't really sing a lot of that song, did they, Jesse? No. How would you feel if you were being walked down the streets of Ontario, Canada, to your grade four class, and Jesse Thorne, your father, was singing that song.

I mean, I wish they said why the parents are doing that. So I have more of a reason to not just say the kid gets to not have their parents do that. You are a model of judicial restraint. Is there any more evidence that we can offer, Oscar? Maybe another case? Didn't we get another letter similar to this? Yeah. We also had one from Gertie, who is seven. And Gertie's dad sings while taking her to school. And Gertie says, he doesn't sing real songs. He sings about the things he sees, like he is Weird Al. Is that a fair characterization of the artistry of Weird Al? Look, let's just say the kid doesn't have to have their parents singing while walking,

because that's just strange. Well, before we just rule against parents singing out loud and embarrassing their kids, let me put this thought experiment to you. Here comes another brain twister. Oh, no. Oscar. What? Do you like making sounds with your mouth?

Yes. So do I. Here's one that I like to make. That one's horrid. Horrid and bad. Horrid and bad. Let me hear a good one. I'm not picking that up exactly. Can you get closer on the mic? Now, when you make mouth sounds, does your dad like it? Well, usually I don't do it near my dad.

Oh, okay. You just do it on your own. I'm always upstairs playing a video game. Making mouth sounds. So you're not making mouth sounds walking down the street embarrassing your dad. It's just parents are making mouth sounds in the form of songs, making their kids feel embarrassed. Oscar, do I ever sing an embarrassing song? No. Do I make embarrassing jokes?

Yes. Like what? Like pouring soda on my head. Oh, no. Did I really pour soda on your head? You haven't. What do you mean? You've poured bubble water on my head before.

Just bubble water. Not like soda pop. Not like a Coke. Yeah, I know. Just wet, not sticky. Yeah. That's really funny though. And it my, I have my answer. Already. It is that no more annoying parents. No more annoying. I wish I, I wish I could make that ruling. Kids rule,

parents drool. That's Oscar's ruling. I wish I could make that ruling. You know, the problem is if I really ruled on no more, no more annoying parents, we'd never have another episode of Judge John Hodgman again. The truth is parents will annoy you whether you're age seven or in grade four in Ottawa, Ontario. That annoys me because something that's weird about dad is because he gets paid for making bad jokes. God, what am I, a chestnut? Because I'm getting roasted right now.

Oscar, you got to stay off the Reddit, my friend. Jesse, you asked me my opinion at one point. Now I'll ask you your opinion. What do you think about parents singing out loud against their own children's objections, taking them to school. I just think it's a beautiful thing for parents and children to share the objections, I mean. To share the objections? I don't understand.

Yeah, the parents are giving the children an opportunity to sigh, whine, and complain about them while engaging in a beautiful positive activity, which is singing songs from the very funny Bob's Burgers movie, specifically the song that all the evil carnies sing at their carny camp. Semi-evil. Look, there's character development among the carnies. No spoilers for the Bob's Burgers movie here. I can't abide by the ruling no more annoying parents. Parents are always going to be a little bit annoying in different ways, different phases of your life, children. And I think that probably Maude and Gertie's respective dads, and why is it always dads?

Well, I guess it's mom and dad in Maude's case. They sing to express their joy at having a child to walk to school. They think it's fun for everybody. So they sing the duck song. That's right. They sing the duck song, Lucky Ducks. Why that song? I guess it's because it's catchy and fun to sing for them. Can they sing the wall song about the walls? Which song? The wall song. Was there a song sing the wall song about the walls? Which song? The wall song. Was there a song about the wall in the Bob's Burgers movie?

No, I just made it up off the top of my head. Oh, I guess Oscar is just pulling a Weird Al and singing songs about whatever he sees. Sing the wall song. That's just the definition of Weird Al's career. Sing the wall song. Yeah, the wall song. The wall song. Oscar, you and I went to see the Bob's Burgers movie. Do you remember anything about it?

I remember there was a wall song. I don't know. It's settled law that if it's not fun for everyone, it's not fun at all. And it's not fun for Maude or for Gertie. I think that they'll look back with sadness when they tell their parents to shut up and stop singing. The same way I think Alec will look back in sadness if he burns that invitation.

But I will caution the parents to choose their moments. Just sing the wall song and you'll be fine. Sing the wall song and you'll be fine. Exactly. Okay, sing the wall song. Sing it. That sounds fair. I mean, there's no way. The wall song's the wall song and you'll be fine. Exactly. Okay, sing the wall song. Sing it. That sounds fair. I mean, there's no way.

The wall song's the best song. There's no, here's the thing, Maude and Gertie. There's no way for me or God or whatever to ever make parents less annoying than they are. But most of the time, one hopes they're annoying because they love you and they have errors of judgment. Yeah, but it would make them a little less annoying if they just sing the wall song. Yeah, and I'm not going to rule against singing ever. That's like ruling against smiling or laughing.

They're going to find some way to embarrass you. Better stick with the devil you know in the form of these songs. The wall song. The wall song. Sing the wall song. Parents wall song. Sing the wall song. Parents, leave those kids alone. Just sing the wall song. The wall song.

Sing it. Sing it. Sing the wall song. The wall song. Jesse, I think we're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick break. Hear from this week's partners. We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hodgeman Podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much

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And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Chop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs.

Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel.

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that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear the sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners. Right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at Babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week, we're dispensing juvenile justice with our special guest, age eight or nine or so, Oscar Thorne.

Welcome back, Oscar. It's too bad we don't have any cases about fish. That's Oscar's greatest interest right now. Yes. How many fish do you have in your tank right now, As? Eight. What kinds are they? Guppies and tetras.

Guppies and tetras. And what are their names again? I'm trying to remember. Remember one's name, Technoblade. One's named Kyle. One's named Gregory. Technoblade, Kyle, Gregory. And then there's Naya Naya and then

I haven't and then one of them is called Eater. And then the last one I have not named yet because I keep forgetting because I'm lazy. I don't think you are. A good name is hard to come by. Maybe we'll have to come up with one by the end of this case.

Yes, I just spent all my brain cells trying to remember my fish's names. Here's a case from Sasha from San Antonio, Texas. My nine-year-old son is a fan of Kidz Bop. They're a kids' singing group who cover pop songs, editing out any bad language. Oscar, are you familiar with Kids Pop? I've heard of Kids Pop. They did a Nightmare on My Street thing, but they destroyed the entire purpose of it since it's a horror song,

and it was funny. They sweetened it up. The famous DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince song, A Nightmare on My Street. I think a good theme song for this week's episode of Judge Sean Hodgman would be Parents Just Don't Understand. That's true. They really don't. Speaking of the edgy rap oeuvre of DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince.

There's nothing to hate about DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. They're great. Okay, here's the rest here. Now my son has been listening to the original versions, especially Driver's License by Olivia Rodrigo. He likes to sing along to this song, including the F word in the chorus. I say that's inappropriate for a nine-year-old. He says it's okay when it's part of a song. He also says that when we drove to Austin to see Kids Bop live, I made him listen to MaxFun podcasts that had F-bombs in them. Does he have a case? Hmm.

Oscar, are you familiar with the F-word? I am. All right. Because my dad yells it a lot when he's mad. I don't yell it that much. Once in a while. Whenever you're mad, you just scream it. No, very, very rarely.

No, that is a lie. Trust me. Yeah, bailiff Jesse Thorne, shut your F hole. I heard you say the F word before we even started recording. It's okay. We're grownups. We can swear. What's the policy in the Thorn house about swearing at the age of nine?

In my house, we are not vehemently anti-swearing, but we do ask the kids to remember that there are people who could feel bad if they swore and that there are contexts where it's appropriate to swear and ones where it isn't. That's right. I used to take my kids when they were little to Shopson's general store, which is a lunch counter owned and operated by the now late Kenny Shopson, one of the most notoriously foul-mouthed people in the world. And I would cringe a little bit when he would go on a long, long, very-bomb laden tirade and then i realized they're gonna learn it somehow they might as well learn from the best he was one of the best

f-bombers in the biz almost as good as olivia rodrigo i guess what do you think should this kid be singing the f-bomb singing along to a song with the F-bomb in it? Yes or no, Oscar? I mean, I'd say I just feel like it would make sense. Do you ever notice swear words in songs that I'm listening to in the car? Yes. Especially rap. Yeah, I do listen to some rap songs with swears in them. Yes. You're never going to hear that with DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince.

It's true. They keep it clean. They keep it clean. They keep it clean. Except for the horror themes. Yeah. Well, clean up the horror themes, obviously. A nightmare on my street. In any case, I am inclined to agree with Oscar.

You opened the door, Sasha, with these foul-mouthed Max Funn podcasts. Can't imagine. Certainly not on. You're certainly not listening to Judge John Hodgman. So I, I admit I am prejudiced against you, Sasha, but I will not recuse.

I'm frankly terrified that Sasha heard Jordan, Jesse go. Yeah. I mean, you know, you've set a precedent in your own car of listening to things with F bombs in them. It would be pretty funny if you were singing along or mouthing along to whole episodes

of Jordan, Jesse, Go that you had memorized, Sasha. That would be incredible. Oscar, have you ever heard an episode of Jordan, Jesse, Go? No. Okay. That's for the best. Why? Because it's just for the best for everyone, but especially people who shouldn't hear adult

themes. But I would say that, you know, not only have you opened the door by playing those bad word podcasts, but also, you know, Kidz Bop, you heard Mr. Oscar Thorne. His opinion on Kidz Bop is they took the best part out of a perfectly good song, Nightmare on My Street. They took out the horror out of it, right?

Yeah, and it was a horror song and it was actually pretty funny because there was no horror in it because they had to get rid of all the horror and it was a horror song, and it was actually pretty funny because there was no horror in it because I had to get rid of all the horror, and it was funny. Look, there are lots of amazing songs out there for both kids and adults that don't have bad words in them. Listen to those. Listen, Zendaya, I know you're probably listening to this podcast. Love your work.

I know that you were in Kidz Bop. I learned that when i when i wikipedia kids bop please don't get upset when i say kids bop is evil i just i haven't even listened to it it's like don't take the thing that makes it a thing out of the thing yes right that's what i'm saying that's what you're saying. Don't take the thing that makes it a thing out of the thing. All you're going to do, Sasha, is birth in your child's imagination a thirst and a hunger for the real thing. Olivia Rodrigo saying, f*** there. You can bleep that out.

I don't mind saying it in front of you, Oscar, because I know that your dad says it all the time i don't say it all the time just once in a while when something what do you mean once in a while you once a month maybe i did do it yes i did it yesterday and he probably also says caca and poo-poo too is my i would never i would. If it's playing in the car, you can sing it along. Figuring out how to teach kids about when and when it is not appropriate, both in their age and in the context in which they are moving through the world, to say swear words is an important job of being a parent. And hypocritically saying F word for me, not for thee, simply because it's a podcast?

Forget it, Sasha. You're out of line. I find in favor of Sasha's child. Here's something from Creighton in Silverton, Oregon. We have four cats. Five, if you include Lady Bear, who lives in the attic and hates me. I think five is plenty. My eight-year-old daughter wants more.

She says there's no maximum number of cats. That's true. They sleep all day and 13 could fit on the couch alone. She has calculated this. Oh, that's amazing. has calculated this. Oh, that's amazing. She says if the cat's litter is changed regularly, there is no difference

between 3 and 30. Who's right? Honestly? Yeah, honestly. As long as you know that they're just going to sleep a lot, they do play, but they sleep a lot. And that is the reason that she's right

because they sleep, and as long as you're taking care of them. I wouldn't say this with fish because with fish, it's like in a tank, but you have a house with pets like that. So it makes sense. Yeah, but if you've got 13 cats on the couch where are you gonna sit you're gonna sit on the floor like the cats used to whoa the cats are in charge now ace oscar we have one dog how many dogs do you think we could have in our house before it would be too many? I mean, I feel like dogs are different from cats because dogs, like when I see our dog, Sissy, sitting down looking straight at me, I know she wants pets. But what I don't want is I don't want 50 dogs all staring at me with puppy eyes wanting me to pet them. 50 dogs all staring at me with puppy eyes wanting me to pet them.

So it's the fact that cats don't necessarily like people that means you can have an infinite number of cats in your home. Yes. And that's also why we don't have a cat. If you had an infinite number of cats and an infinite number of microphones, eventually one of them would release the Judge John Hodgman podcast. That's just facts. I can't imagine if we got more dogs that they would all be as desperate to get petted as sissy. Unless it was a bunch of chihuahuas. If it was a bunch of chihuahuas, we might end up with more sissies.

So you're saying you can't have too many fish in a tank because a tank is an enclosed space and the fish wouldn't be comfortable. Right. And you can't have too many dogs. Because dogs stare at you. Because dogs stare at you and need your attention. Whereas cats are just a bunch of sociopaths who want nothing to do with you anyway. You might as well house as many of them as possible. I'm going to say this, though, to Creighton.

Creighton's daughter. Maybe you don't notice that cats do more than just sleep. I know that you are aware that they poop and pee. The only time I've ever seen a cat, it was sitting in a chair doing nothing. That is the only time I've seen a cat, it was sitting in a chair doing nothing. That is the only time I've seen a cat in person sitting on a chair doing nothing. What about walking down the street? You've seen tons of cats walking down the street. You've only seen a cat in a chair one time.

This reminds me, you know that novel Oscar, 100 Years of Solitude? Of course you do. Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aurelio Buendia remembered the time his father took him into a room to see a cat in a chair. It's a good joke for people who like Gabriel Garcia Marquez. That was off the dome too, by the way, Jesse. I didn't need to look that up. I remember that opening line. It's a good one. Multiple tenses. That's a time-traveling one. Many years later, as he faced fire, he yeah never mind let's move on i'm gonna say this i hate to disagree with you oscar but as the owner of one cat i know how much that cat not only poops and pees i also know that cat is too dumb to pee in the same place twice and i also know that cat pukes a lot too throws up i love that cat so much but if i had two or

three or four of them and all i'm saying is there's probably a reason lady bear is up in the attic because lady bear wants to be out of there lady bear did not want to be around those other cats or those humans i think that there's an there's a limit to the amount of cats that you can have there is a definitely a maximum and i would say four with one in the attic is about where it tops off unless you're ernest hemingway and you're living in key west and and they have free access to the outdoors uh but enclosed in one tank oh by the way don't keep your cats in tanks so i rule i rule in favor of Creighton. And Creighton's eight-year-old daughter, you know, when you have a house of your own, you can get as many cats as you want. But I think the two of you should sit down and watch

Grey Gardens together this weekend, and you'll decide. You'll see what I'm talking about. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, a terrifying interpretation of a children's book. Cliffhanger time. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience,

one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try.

Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O.

Ugh, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the docket. Let's talk about what we've got coming up. Jesse Thorne, I'm thrilled, thrilled to say that knocking all pieces of wood, including my own wooden skull, we're getting back out there in the world. As I've mentioned before, Monty Belmonte and I are doing our Hodge Monty holiday spectacular with special guests Jonathan Colton and Jean Gray at the Shea Theater in Turners Falls, Massachusetts.

That's December 17th. It's coming right up there. Just Google Hodge Monty, and it'll take you right to where you need to go to get those tickets. H-O-D-G-M-O-N-T-E. But as exciting as that, San Francisco Sketch Fest tickets are on sale. That's right.

We're going back to Sketch fest san francisco in person judge john hodgman live at the sydney goldstein theater beautiful theater february 4th at 7 30 p.m and we obviously will need your cases your disputes for that show in san francisco if you're in san francisco or the bay area and you'd like us to consider your dispute for possible adjudication on stage, submit them now, please, at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Just let us know in the subject line or anywhere in the email that you're going to be at the live show and you'd like us to consider your dispute for Judge John Hodgman live at Sketch Fest. Get your tickets now. SFS at SketchFest. Get your tickets now, sfsketchfest.com. And hey, John, that same day that you're going to be doing Hodge Monty, December 17th, out on the East Coast, I'm going to be out here on the West Coast in Southern

California at the Pasadena Vintage Flea Market, which is a really cool flea market. I did it two months ago. A bunch of Judge John Hodgman people came out and said hi. It was really nice to meet people, but it's going to be the perfect place to get your last minute holiday gifts. It's not just me. It will be dozens and dozens of vendors. Got a good buddy named John Miner who's going to be selling some great records. I saw all kinds of great stuff. There was a woman who brought a fully restored 50s pickup truck full of flowers. I thought that was pretty great. But yeah, come out, say hi to me and say hi to my tiny Japanese van at the South Pasadena Vintage Flea Market. going to say that you have to bring me honey from your backyard, but I will say that longtime Max Funster Cruft Box did bring me honey from his backyard. So I'm going to need you to, if you don't do that, just look around the house and see what artisanal products you have to bring

me. Whatever it is, I'll accept it, you know, at the end of the day. Uh, but homemade kombucha. Sure. Yeah, sure. Why not bring the booch December 17th. And if you're, if you're not in Southern California, of course, go to put this on shop.com and do your holiday shopping. Uh, it's getting up on the last minute, but we, man, we got some great treasures. So, so please do that.

We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket and we're talking juvenile justice with our guest judge, Oscar Thorne. Hello. Hello. Hello. Great job resetting yourself, Oscar. That's fantastic. For people just joining the podcast, this is the sound of Oscar's voice. Hello. All right, let's continue on. Okay, thank you. It's good to have you here, Oscar, to keep things moving along seriously. If I remember correctly, this is a case that comes from Australia. Is that right, Jesse? My 10-year-old daughter Zoe and I have a banana dispute.

She says banana bread and banana cake are the same because their ingredients are identical. I say they're different. Banana cake is cakey. Banana bread is dense. It can be toasted and spread with butter, like bread. Who's right? Oscar, do you like banana bread? I don't.

I've never had. I think. Have I had banana bread before? I think you would remember. It's like, it tastes like garbage. Okay. So you would probably remember if you had it. Because you have to, you make banana bread with bananas that have gone bad. It is a way to, not gone bad, but they've gotten a little brown and mushy.

And you make banana bread with it in order to extend the life of the banana that you probably should not have bought in the first place. I don't mean to influence your decision here, but I'm just, I just wondered if you had an opinion on banana bread. Some people do. I definitely do have an opinion on banana bread. It's garbage. Do you have an opinion on banana bread. It's garbage. Do you have an opinion on banana cake? Judge Hodgman, you got to be careful because one time, I think on this podcast, maybe on Jordan Jesse Go, I described banana bread as garbage bread because it is bread made from the little garbage in your home. The bananas that are too old to eat.

Which, I mean, to be fair, I do throw in my freezer and save for smoothies. It is recycling. But it's horrible recycling. That doesn't make sense. And it's a horrible decision. And I don't know who invented banana bread, but they made a big mistake. Yeah, it's pretty gross. Especially when it has like walnuts in it. I don't think you said it on this podcast. I'm sorry you didn't. You must have said it on Jordan Jesse Go and you must have said, it's f***ing garbage bread. It was, I don't think I have ever touched a third rail as electrified as banana bread.

Honestly, it's possible that like Linda Holmes swatted me. I know people love banana bread. And you can love what you love. You can like what you like. I think it tastes like garbage. And I know as my friend bailiff, Jesse Thorne says it, it's made from garbage. It's a classic example of a category of food to which I am opposed. That also includes most muffins, which is things that have all of the negative health effects of desserts, but are not actually desserts. Like, just eat something good. Right.

Just eat something. If you want to have a sweet treat, have a good one. Have, for example, some banana cake. Sounds nice. I love banana pudding. Banana pudding? Pudding. Banana pudding with Nilla wafers? Give me it.

Num, num, num. I've had different kinds of pudding, but I don't know if I've had banana pudding, banana pudding with Nilla wafers. Give me a num, num, num. I've had different kinds of pudding, but I don't know if I've had banana pudding. Probably we've had banana pudding together before. Yeah. Oscar, did I ever tell you that I grew up in a town called Brookline, Massachusetts? I remember you telling me that, but I forgot it. Did I ever tell you that I used to work at the movie theater, the old-timey movie theater that showed old-timey movies? And right next door to the movie theater had been a coffee place, a fancy coffee place called the Coffee Connection.

And both my very good friend Jay and the person who is now my wife and a whole human being in her own right also worked there. We all used to hang around, but then the coffee place went out of business. You know what replaced it? it what a pudding parlor not an ice cream store a pudding parlor what's a pudding parlor they you would walk in it was like a like a gourmet ice cream store but instead of like i'll instead of having a list of like cream, Rocky Road, whatever, they had all these different puddings, different flavors of pudding. Sounds like the name of a private club for adults. It was not, well, it wasn't called the pudding parlor.

Of course, you know what it was called. This is a true story. Pudding on the Ritz? Pudding at first. Pudding on the Ritz would have been better. Pudding at first. I think it lasted seven months. I had one pudding from there and I probably would have ordered banana pudding because here's the thing. I don't have a sweet tooth, but I do like the taste of banana desserts. I like a banana pudding with Nilla wafers. I like a Bananas Foster. Do you know what a Bananas

Foster is, Oscar? Nope. They take bananas and they set them on fire. They pour brandy over them and they set it on fire. Wow. That is, you're lying. I'm not lying, sir. I am not lying. I would not lie. I'll say this for banana bread. Like Bananas Foster, it improves a lot. I honestly forgot what the case was. We're just talking about how garbage banana bread is. Yeah, I mean, that's what this show is. Okay. Well, that's a good point, Oscar. Here's the case.

Are banana bread and banana cake the same thing? That's what this Australian's daughter says. Now, I had never heard of banana cake. So Joel from Melbourne, Australia sent me a link to a recipe for banana cake. Can Oscar see this? Yep. Ooh.

Ooh. Banana cake. Oscar, how would you describe that banana cake? So it's like a flat brown plate looking thing with like cream on top of it. And then another weird plate thing with cream on top of it. Yeah. And then more cream on top of that with bananas on it. Yeah.

And the brown plate things, that's the cake, right? That's some cake. So there's layers of cake, layers of cream, and there's banana slices in the layers of cream. Before we go to the other link that Joel sent, Oscar, that thing we were just looking at, if I handed that to you and said, would you like a slice of this bread? What would you think of me? I would think you were just being an idiot. Exactly so.

Just like my dad is at all times of day oh okay the point is it looks like a cake now let's take a look at this banana bread it looks no it looks like a weird pancake kind of it looks like a layer cake a layer cake yeah let's take a look at this picture of banana bread. We have the picture. There it is. Oh. Oh. Oh, my God.

That is pitiful. What is that? That looks like they put, like, dirt inside of, like, crust. That's roughly what banana bread is. Dude, that is absolutely disgusting. Who will eat that? Too many people, in my opinion. It looks like dirt.

It's better if you toast it and put butter on it, but it's still not exactly good. Oscar, you're absolutely right. It looks like dirt. What I really appreciate here is that I feel redeemed because we showed you a cake and yeah, it looked like a cake and it was boring enough to see, but then the pure and instinctive contempt that you felt when you saw this banana bread, clearly banana bread is its own thing. Now, you'd be surprised to learn, or you might be, according to the recipe that Joel sent for that banana cake, banana cake is also best made with mushy bananas. It is also made out of garbage. But this is proof.

Mushy bananas, garbage. Yeah. But I mean, if you're going to use them for anything, make a cake out of them. You don't, if anything, it's just more proof that banana bread is trash. Like you make banana bread, people are repulsed. You make banana cake, people are at worst indifferent as we've seen. And in my case, I was a little, I thought it looked good.

The lesson here, as far as I'm concerned, is if you're going to mix bananas, dairy, flour, and sugar, you better have a banana cream pie at the end. Yeah, banana cream pie would be really good. All right, can we move back to the case? Because I want to answer this case. It's been going on for too long. Do you think banana bread and banana cake are the same

because they both have bananas, flour, sugar, and so forth? Definitely not. Right. Thank you. I've never felt more affirmed. I'll admit it. They're both garbage. Okay. Fair enough. They're both made from garbage. The cake looks okay. Yeah. I don't love cake, but it looks, I'd have a slice.

Neither do I. But what I do like is... Can we move to the next page now? I'm bored. Okay, one more case from Amy in Delaware, Ohio. I have a 10-year-old son named Bill. We have a dispute about the children's book Mr. Topsy-Turvy. In the story, Mr. Topsy-Turvy visits a town and causes mischief. When he disappears, the town is left completely Topsy-Turvy.

I believe that Mr. Topsy-Turvy has gone home. Bill says the townsfolk have murdered and consumed Mr. Topsy-Turvy. They act Topsy-Turvy because they have absorbed Mr. Topsy-Turvy's essence. I love that. Please rule that Bill is wrong and must stop yelling, they ate him, when we read the book. So, I have one thing to say. So, I have one thing to say. I believe that how could more than one people consume one person? There's not enough essence to go around. And plus, they'd get arrested for it. If there's even, I mean, it's upside down in Topsy Turvy Town, who would even do the arresting? The criminals, maybe.

I'm not familiar with this book, Mr. Topsy Turvy. This is one of the little, the Mr. and Miss books. Mr. Man books. Yeah, this is a Mr. Man book. I remember this from my own childhood. I was very early on Mr. Man books because my best buddy Jody Scott had an English parent. They were English books. Danger Mouse, Mr. Man, and EastEnders were all very important in their house. Amy sent in some evidence, and there's a page here from Mr. Topsy Turvy about when Mr. Topsy Turvy has left. And there's a

illustration of a news reader on television. And the text says, what the town discovered, even though Mr. Topsy Turvy had left, was that everything was still topsy turvy read all it about shouted the people selling newspapers instead of shouting read all about it so i i don't know this particular uh mr man book but amy sent in some evidence as a photo sort of towards the end after mr topsy turvy has disappeared or been eaten ritually and i guess what it's a illustration of a of a newsreader on television says what well the town discovered even though mr topsy turvy had left was that everything was still topsy turvy read all it

about shouted the men selling newspapers instead of shouting read all about it morning good people started saying to each other when they met and do do you how instead of how do you do everyone was talking topsy-turvy so oscar you feel that uh mr topsy-turvy has not been ritually slain and eaten by the townsfolk but that's just because you think it would be impractical for everyone in the town to have a piece of Mr. Topsy-Turvy? Wait, now that I think about it, this is a book. Right. So why are we even talking about it?

No, this is a book. So technically, it's not like any way could be anything, even if it doesn't make sense, since it's a book and children don't understand existence. And it's a children's book, I'm guessing. So it just makes sense because children don't understand some things, most things, actually. My thinking is this. You know, Oscar, that book Stone Soup? Yeah. You know how they start with the stones and then they make enough soup for everyone in the entire village?

Mm-hmm. What if instead of starting with stones, they started with the corpse of Mr. Topsy-Turvy? Oh, my God. And then everyone in the village brought like a zucchini or whatever. That's what I'm saying. It's a book, so either one would work. And then? That's what I'm saying. It's a book, so either one would work. Because children don't understand existence and are little puny little things in this world. Wow, now you're talking my language. Yeah, I mean, I'll say that Amy's child is not entirely off the mark here.

you know cannibalism has been practiced in times of cannibalism has been practiced uh in times of hardship from the donner party to many many sailors to the uh to the uh to those human eating soccer players and the andes it would be hard for an entire township to gain sustenance out of this one mr topsy-turvy you're It wouldn't go. But if the point isn't survival, but instead ritual, a little Topsy-Turvy goes a long way. Everyone just needs a bite of them to get that essence. Do you know what I mean? You ever read a children's book called The Lottery? No. They should make an illustrated children's book version of The Lottery, a little golden

book of The Lottery by Shirley Jackson. That is not kid-friendly. would that is not kid friendly gambling is not kid friendly it's it's a it's a different kind of gamble as you as you will surely read when you hit seventh grade um but in any case i am going to say the evidence is right in the text yes mr topsy turvy. Mr. Topsy-Turvy had left. And not only that, but the Topsy-Turviness of the town would suggest that it is, they are not happy to still be Topsy-Turvy. Or I should say, they are happy not to be still Turvy Topsy. Because, you know what I mean? Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah, so why would they want to eat him to get Topsy Turvy? Mr. Topsy Turvy is the antagonist in this. He is the town who comes to stranger Amy's son in a Topsy Turvy way. Yeah. And then they get rid of him. If eating him was going to save the town, they would not be Topsy Turvy at the end. They would have consumed him and set things right is my is my interpretation yeah that make that that makes sense well i went to yale for literary theory did you know that oscar it was never mind it was worth it point is i'm inclined

to rule against 10 year old bill on the facts but on the other hand, which is more fun, Oscar, to believe that Mr. Topsy-Turvy just left or to believe that the town in secret in the dead of night decided to eat him? I think he just left because children, it's inappropriate for children book and um it wouldn't make sense that cannibalism would be inside of a kid's book so no i i agree i don't think it is the author's intent to suggest that this is a town of cannibals but that said i also learned in college that the author is dead probably eaten by the town frankly and that you can interpret a book without consideration toward authorial intent. Okay, either one's fine with me. Just choose one. Yeah, okay, I will.

Bill wins. Mr. Topsy-Turvy got it, for sure. I think there's everything. The text does not really support that conclusion, but it makes it a lot more fun to read. Yeah, Mr. Topsy-Turvy, sounds like the signifier just got signified. Bop, bop, bop. Bop, bop, bop. And finally, Amy also sent in,

oh, all right, let's do it. All right. Were you going to sing it? No. Okay. I like that, though. Finally, Amy sent in some other photographic non-evidence

of this wonderful dog they have Do we know the name of this dog? No How is this dog related? Sometimes people just send in pictures of their pets for me to see them Aww Look at his teeth.

Got a little underbite there. I don't know what the name of this dog is and I don't know what the name of that fish is. Fish? Well, we still have to name that fish. What about Mr. Topsy Turvy? Mr. Topsy Turvy or Mr. Turvy Topsy? No, your last fish that doesn't have to name that fish. What about Mr. Topsy-Turvy? Mr. Topsy-Turvy or Mr. Turvy-Topsy? No, your last fish that doesn't have a name yet.

What if we named it Mr. Topsy-Turvy? Here are the candidates. Mr. Topsy-Turvy, the fish. Banana Cake, the fish. Disgusting Banana Bread, the fish. Oh, I have an idea. I'm going to name it. Banana Bread is garbage. Banana bread is garbage.

Banana bread is garbage. The fish. Welcome to the tank. I love it. Oscar, thank you so much for lending your true wisdom and harsh justice to juvenile court this week. The docket is now clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Our editor is Valerie Moffitt. Valerie Moffitt on the boards

on this episode. Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode at MaximumFun.reddit.com. You know, Oscar, Jesse, Valerie, you're all there in Southern California. I know it's like there, but here, here it's taking a real cold snap. Winter, winter is upon us. We got to get cozed up, up here. During these dark, cold times, we need some of that cozy comfort. And I was thinking, why don't you send us some of your cozy disputes? Did your siblings steal your favorite cozy cardigan?

Does your partner hog the comfy covers? Oh, I know. A couch full of 13 cats. Is that cozy or merely smelly? We'll take any cozy dispute you might guess. Disputes about tea cozies. Now it's time for me to go home and play Fortnite. That sounds cozy to me.

Preferred activity. How do you cozy up? What's your favorite cozy mystery to read? Submit your cozy disputes to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Do it. Oscar, you love coziness. What's cozy to you? You inherited your mom's passion for being

cozy. Sissy. Sissy. Our dog Sissy. If you have disputes with our dog Sissy, like she's a biter, for example. And she begs for pets 24-7. Once she starts licking you, she just does it compulsively until you literally physically pull her off you. Yes.

None of this sounds particularly cozy to me, But then again, it's not a cat versus dog thing. That cat puke, not cozy. She pees in mommy and daddy's bathroom sometimes, but not in the toilet. That's why I have pet fish.

They don't pee. Well, they poop, but they don't really pee. And we'll take any of your disputes that you might have. Yeah, and if you have disputes that aren't about our dog Sissy, you can still submit them

at MaximumFun.org slash JJHL. We don't care what it's about honestly we don't just submit it and we'll let jen and john sort it out you know after it's been submitted if you got a dispute put it in there we'll eat it up uh ask my son is losing his mind at this point so we'll talk to you next time we got to go get some tacos we'll talk to you next time. We got to go get some tacos. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.