Judge John Hodgman - Sunrise Upset

Episode Date: April 29, 2015

Colin enjoys rising with the sun each day, but is it an impractical habit? Guest starring Jean Grae as the Bailiff!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest bailiff, Jean Grey, in for Jesse Thorne. This week, sunrise upset. Kara brings the case against her husband, Colin. Colin began setting an alarm to rise with the sun each day. He says it's not only useful, but that he enjoys feeling synced with the natural world. Kara says the sunrise alarm is impractical and is just Colin's latest new thing. Should Colin continue rising with the sun?

Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and issues the obscure cultural reference. Before I issue the obscure cultural reference, Kara and Colin, could I ask your ages, please? I'm 27. I'm 29. That's very eloquent. I can't argue against anything you're saying. Then again, I don't have to, because you're 27 and 29 years old.

You're children. Look, let's face it, you're probably much more intelligent people than I am. In fact, I guarantee it. But even smart kids stick their finger in electrical sockets sometimes. It takes time to figure things out. It's been proven by history. All mankind makes mistakes. It's our job to try to protect you from making the dangerous ones, if we can.

Me and Jean Grey. Jean, swear I'm in. Colin and Kara, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that for one full year he synced his sleep pattern to Sun Ra and his entire orchestra's sleep patterns.

Yes, I do. I do. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Karen, Colin, you may be seated. First of all, welcome guest bailiff Jean Gray to the courtroom. Thank you. Thank you for coming in, Jean, and filling in for my good friend, Bailiff Jessie Thorne. Jean Grey, if you don't know her, you ought to.

She is a singer, songwriter, rapper, actor, comedian, filmmaker, author, and just polymath of all things awesome. Anything I missed there, Jean? Oh, it sounds like I should just be exhausted. But aren't you? Yes, I am. That's right. You usually are when I see you. Jean and I have, because she works so hard, you guys, she's bringing things out all the time. If you want to find out more about her, and I urge you to do so, go to jeangrey.bandcamp.com for all of her music and thoughts and amazingness. She's at Jean Greasy on Twitter and

at Jeannie Grigio on Instagram. And she's one of my very favorite people that I've come to know in the past year and of all time. So I was really happy when she was able to fill in for Jesse today, who's doing something else at the moment because of my own dumb schedule. So it's not his fault. It's mine. Okay.

Thank you. I'm also, you're welcome. Thank you. Karen, Colin, I've never met before, and I have no opinions about them yet. That's good. But maybe we'll be friends or enemies by the time this is all done.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Let me give you a hint or a clarification. At least everything I said from that's very eloquent to the end until I mentioned Jean Greasy, Jean Greasy, Jean gray woman of many pseudonyms is a quote from something,

right? The only things I changed were the age, the age involved. And I made some references to me, but it is a quote from something, right? The only things I changed were the age involved, and I made some references to me. But it is a quote from a thing. Can you name what I was quoting? I'll start. Let's see. Who's bringing the case to me?

It's Kara. Is it not Kara? You get the first crack at it. I have no idea. Colin? Is it like Fahrenheit 451 or something? Fahrenheit what? What? I don't want to say nothing. Is it like Fahrenheit 451 or something? Fahrenheit 451.

I don't want to say nothing. I've got to give something so I gave that something. Do you have a copy of Fahrenheit 451 on your desk or something? What's going on? It's very weird. That was very... Yeah, he just went right to it as well. I think that I've used Fahrenheit 451 before, because it's a good one if this case is about burning books or lighting fires.

But this isn't about that. This is about Colin's weird choices, and we're starting with a yeah when it comes to weird choices explains a lot explains a lot gene gray did can you guess what it is i'll give you a hint i am referencing a movie that i will mention in the future specifically next week when we do a Chambers only episode together in the future next week. Something that hasn't even happened yet, but I know you have incredible mind powers. Can you look into the future

and think of a movie that I am going to mention on a Chambers only episode that will not come out until next week that maybe we just recorded ourselves? I cannot, so I'm going go with fahrenheit 452 oh the sequel the sequel it was much better yeah right no but it's interesting you should bring up sequels this is a movie that is not a sequel it is a movie that i will mention in the future and and close listeners to judge john

hodgman when you get to this episode in the future, you'll be like, oh, he was telling the truth. Moonrise Kingdom is the movie that I was quoting. Oh, you got it. You remember there, right? Moonrise Kingdom, directed by Wes Anderson, co-written by Wes Anderson and Roman Coppola, what I consider to be a perfect movie. it to be a perfect movie. And it is the

quote is Bruce Willis' character talking to Sam Shkosky, the 12-year-old child in that movie, about responsibility. And I mentioned Moonrise Kingdom because there's nothing good that has sunrise in the title. And this is

about getting up at the crack of dawn. I could have done something crack of dawn. I could have done sunrise sunset, but that one was too on the nose. And instead I'm going to say that I was making reference to my unofficial moonrise kingdom sequel sunrise kingdom in which I, and I'm just pitching this now.

I was just, I'm just, this is just right in. This is going to just in the room very exciting sunrise kingdom uh it's gonna be starring me as sam shakusky now 43 years old the year is 1996 i'm still married to suzy or maybe but maybe we're divorced i don't know but we live we live in we live in that Francis McDormand Bill Murray house that they lived in but now the island of New Penzance it's

1996 and I'm New Penzance is like hosting a kind of Lollapalooza like festival and I have to and and the problem is that I've rented out the top floor to the spin doctors. And then I don't know what happens after that, but it's crazy. Jean, that sounds like a movie, right? I already started typing this into Kickstarter. Yeah, good. Just right now so we can get it going. Yeah, yeah.

It's totally, this is totally illegal. Yeah. We do not have the rights to do this. No. But I was very proud and excited to have worked with Roman Coppola on Mozart in the Jungle, the great Amazon series that is coming back again, and you should watch it. And so maybe I can talk to him, maybe we'll get this going. You know what I'm talking about, Jean?

That was a very humble brag. No, no, it wasn't a humble brag at all. Oh. Full on. Just full on. Straight out brag. Well, it was well played all right but now now we have to get down to the business of this court colin and carrie you're here seeking justice from the from the fake court of uh the internet which is me and uh cara the problem as i understand it is this your husband colin is that right, husband? Yes.

Husband, yes, is setting the alarm in a very specific way. Explain. So back in February, Colin declared that his new thing would be setting a sunrise alarm. So every night he checks and sees what time the sun will rise in the morning. And then he sets the alarm for that time and wakes up at that time. And back when he started, that meant waking up at 637, which was about when he was waking up anyway for work. We're now at, I think, 524.

I don't think it's bringing anything positive. It's just sort of choosing something. Well, I don't want to's bringing anything positive. It's just sort of choosing something. Well, I don't want to say that sunrise is arbitrary, but it's, I mean, we live on clock time. We don't live on sun time. We don't live any sort of pastoral lifestyle where what time the sun rises actually matters. Yeah, I think that's safe to say for everyone who's on this particular Skype call. Yes. Who is speaking to each other from both across Brooklyn and I gather across the globe, right?

Because you guys are in Taipei? That's correct. And we're talking to you in Taipei right now? Right now. Yeah, so I think it's safe to say that we're not all four of us Amish. No. Well, we'll talk about that later. Okay, Jean.

Okay. But, Kara, so you would like me to order Colin to stop this crazy scheme? That's correct. And Colin, why is that not fair? I don't see how it's making anything worse. She says it's not bringing anything positive into my life. anything worse. She says it's not bringing anything positive into my life, but, um, you know, I enjoy looking up what time the sun is going to rise the following day. And then, um, it seems,

it seems not arbitrary. Yeah. I think it's not an arbitrary thing. Like waking up when the sun comes up is, uh, isn't any more arbitrary than saying like i want to wake up at 6 30 and um you know our our lifestyle is not pastoral but we where we live is it's on the side of a mountain and there's a jungle outside and um so so anything goes anything anything goes. Anything goes. Anything goes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm going to ask you some details about why you're pursuing this and what it brings positive to your life. Your argument is it offers no negatives to your lives together. Cara, how long have you guys been married? Since August. Of this year? Yes. Or last year? this year yes or last year well yeah recording yeah well you know look i

i live by clock time i live by calendar sometimes i get confused uh so you're a relative newly lads how long have you known each other coming up on six years now yeah six years now. Yeah. Six years. Six, seven. Okay. Yeah. And so is it true that this offers no negatives to your life personally, or does it affect your life personally? Setting aside what you think is, what is rational versus ridiculous, setting aside to your concern for whatever he might be doing to his body and his bodily clock. What about how it affects you personally? Well, I'd say his willingness and excitement to talk about it would add something negative. With Colin's new things, they're often a complicated solution to a small problem. Um, and he likes

to share this solution with people. So it's been a topic of conversation. Um, and I think making a hobby out of a bodily function isn't necessarily the best topic of conversation. necessarily the best topic of conversation. So I'm, I'm a little tired of it coming up. Or, or, or arguably the, the,

the best way to live one's life. Yes. I'm, I'm, I'm not talking about, I, I'm not talking about the specific act of setting the alarm in a certain way, but I just love the phrase.

Maybe we shouldn't be making hobbies out of bodily functions. Uh, so I, I actually, I, I actually I'm sorry to interrupt because because she did say new things. So I'm I'm kind of curious. There have been other new things than things that are the kind of the thing. So this is the new new thing. Guest bailiff Jean Grey with the sweet follow-up good one gene go ahead what do you mean what are the other new things um there have been a lot of new things and usually they'll kind of pop up and then fade away which is what i thought would happen with the sunrise alarm as well. I don't remember what the first new thing was,

but for a while it was only wearing shirts with band collars. And then it was... Wait a minute. I don't have the sartorial expertise of regular bailiff Jesse Thorne here. By band collars, what does that mean, Colin? You know, it's like a collar that doesn't fold over it's like the so like an old time or like an old timey shirt yeah like an old timey shirt that you would you would have to attach you would have to attach a

celluloid collar to oh no uh wait maybe yeah maybe maybe like let's say the kind you might wear if you had a return engagement as a creepy psychiatrist in the television show The Nick. Possibly. I don't think we get the show The Nick entirely. Let me clarify for you and Jean Grey. That was another straight up brag. Straight up brag from John Hodgman. See what happened there. Were you wearing band collars yeah i was wearing no i was wearing a band a shirt with a banded collar and then i got i had to wear

a cellular collar on top of it also that the great director and amazing person steven soderbergh could shoot me entirely from behind but that's another story no oh wow all right so you are entirely not entirely, but you got a, you got a good shot of my collar. That's for sure. Well, okay.

Colin was wearing it for, for purposes of filming. No, it was it for, why were you wearing only band collars? What was the purpose of that new thing? Well, it's a lot hotter in a type a,

the climate isn't really amenable to wearing. I'm sorry. The climate isn't really amenable to wearing. I'm sorry, the climate isn't really amenable to wearing. What do you call them? Like higher colors. So I just wanted I want to try out the. You know, but but, you know, they make T-shirts, right? You know, you know what I mean? Like they also make Panama shirts.

They also make. Yeah, there are all kinds of things like you picked something that is not renowned for its heat dispersal qualities. I'd like you to stop dodging the question and answer. What is the purpose of the band collar affectation? And the answer may be no purpose. I just liked to do it. The purpose was it looked chic and I liked to do it chic all right all right i look jean i like that i like that that's a good answer yeah i i've worn some things just because they

look chic cara what other new things has he tried band collars uh well then he couldn't continue with the band collars because he was going to wear earbuds as a bolo tie. Oh, boy. And then in order to wear some sort of tie, you need a regular collar. I was very disapproving of that one. That didn't last too long. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I want to get to Colin on this one.

That didn't last too long. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I want to get to Colin on this one. This is either loathsome or genius. Genius. You're saying genius, Jean? No.

I was just suggesting the other thing that it could possibly be because there are only two things. But Colin, so tell me about the – how do you, look, I grew up in Boston in the 80s, and I liked the talking heads, and I liked David Byrne in True Stories, so you know I wore some bolo ties in my teen years. I'm not against this, but how just thread the earbuds through the collar, and I didn't have a fastener necessarily yet. So it was more of like a beta phase, a beta bolo phase. But that new thing only lasted about six hours because when I came home from work that evening, I was reprimanded pretty severely, and I kind of came around on it. He'd been talking about it for a long time.

How long? I don't think I'd been talking about it that long. A couple weeks. It seemed like a pretty novel. That felt more like a flash of inspiration kind of thing. I might have been talking about bolo ties, but not necessarily earbuds as the bolo ties. That is possible.

Yeah, you can't. I mean you you really only got halfway there you you're using the you know you don't have a bolo tie unless you have the the cord which you were using the headbands for right and then you have that fastener which invariably has a a scorpion preserved in amber or something yeah yeah i had one of those ones yeah yeah i had one of those ones. Maybe you bought my old one. Maybe I sold it in Boston and you bought it. Or vice versa. That's likely. All right. I'm going to put a pin

in Boston there for a second because I want to figure out how you guys got to Taipei from Boston. We've got band collars, bolo ties. Kara's building a case against you. Kara, what else is in your case against Steve? Not Steve. Where did Steve get into this?

One that's been pretty consistent has been drinking what he calls an elixir of health, which is vinegar, some sort of tea, usually chamomile, and then honey and lemon juice in that too? Not often, no. Okay, not usually. Which just smells like vinegar. And yeah, I think he started that when he was sick. And now it's become more of a daily thing. Colin, is it apple cider vinegar yes gene yes it is yes i'm gonna have to let colin go on that one it's actually a pretty good for you

it smells terrible definitely smells terrible yeah you know what gene you keep talking i'm gonna get some right now i got some in the other room hang on a second yeah it's delicious keep asking questions um are are you are. Are you heating this mixture up? Because I know that when you heat up vinegar, it does definitely tend to leave that smell kind of lingering around the house. So I can see how that might be a bit offensive. I put it into the boiling water. Oh. Would you at all consider

just having that as a cold beverage? Yeah, probably. I have some apple cider vinegar right now. Here we go. We're all going to do a shot. Okay, I'm in. Ah.

Oh. I put vodka in mine. I just took it straight apple cider vinegar was supposed to be pretty good for you yeah uh and uh and i always enjoy it yeah but that doesn't mean it's for everyone no it is not are there any other so-called new things you want to put on the table for us to discuss? I would say the last one would be wearing socks inside out and filling them with baking soda. Inside out and filling them with baking soda. What's going on there, Colin?

What's the theory? Well, wearing them inside out helps prevent blisters. Helps prevent blisters. And I think filling them with baking soda is an exaggeration. I lightly dust them with a bit of baking soda just to keep them clean. It goes bag to sock. That is filling a sock with baking soda. It's true. Yeah.

In Taiwan, the baking soda comes in's true. Yeah. In Taiwan, the baking soda comes in sacks. It doesn't come in boxes. So it goes, it goes, goes sack to sock. Yep. Uh,

uh, uh, you're doing this before washing them or, or before wearing them before wearing them as kind of a deodorant type of situation. Yeah. And would you say this is also to adapt to the climate of Taiwan?

I wore my socks inside out back in Massachusetts as well. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't want to talk about that. I'm just talking about the baking. The baking soda. Yeah. Baking soda or baking powder?

Baking soda. Like Arm & Hammer. Yeah. Baking soda or baking powder? Baking soda. Baking soda. Like Arm & Hammer. Yeah. Not to name a brand. Yeah. So I don't want to talk about your weird affectations in Massachusetts. Let's focus right now on Taiwan. How did you get from Massachusetts to Taiwan? Why are you there?

How long have you been there? I'm asking Colin first. Okay. We moved here five years ago we moved here together five years ago um kara wanted to move something you know we met in boston and uh kara wanted to move somewhere it sounds like you're making this up as you go. I'm not. I'm not. I'm really... It was such a long time ago. I'm trying to piece it all together.

First of all, it was five years ago. It's not a long time. Maybe to someone who's 27 or 29, it feels like a long time. It's not a long time. And second of all, you made a massive life change by moving from Boston to Taiwan a year based on my math or more or less

after you met this person and started a new life together in a foreign place so this should be something this should be a memorable touchstone in your life but since you're having a hard time getting around to the crux of it I'm going to be the crux finder and go directly to Kara. Kara, why'd you guys move to Hong Kong? I want. Well, I guess. Yeah, I just felt like moving abroad somewhere. And then what do you do for a living for the ride?

All right. Well, Colin has actually had a more stable experience here because he's he's a teacher and he just wanted to continue teaching so he's been teaching here the whole time and then for me i taught for a year i studied chinese and then i'm finishing up my master's now so since you led this expedition uh to the other hemisphere and you described colin as being along for the ride. What drew you to Taiwan? What drew you to Taipei specifically? We were looking at a number of different places, but actually Colin's brother was studying here at the time.

And then he has an aunt who's lived in Taiwan for about 20 years. So Taiwan kind of seemed to make sense. Got it. And how, and how do you like it it's great yeah it's great yeah a little hot but great um and uh and but you're planning to move back right and that's part of the issue that's correct all right what do you teach what do you teach over there by the way um i teach math social, and English at a junior-senior high school. Are you fluent in the language? What is the

dialect of Chinese that is spoken in Taiwan? Mandarin is the official language, and then a lot of people speak Taiwanese as well. Some people speak Hakka. Elderly people tend to speak Japanese. Got it. It's an interesting place. I'd like to go. And I'm glad that I know this baking soda tip for my socks. Don't forget your band collars.

And then when you filed the affidavit, and I just want to break this all down, Cara, you also suggested that future new things that Colin has declared, that you fear the possibility of going halal and or kosher secularly. That's correct. Not eating after sundown, which is, according to you, stage two of sunrise alarm. And three, donning a teaching smock. Colin, what is a teaching smock? A teaching smock. Colin, what is a teaching smock? A teaching smock was a solution I had conceived for a problem that Kara had identified.

The problem was that I often come home from work covered in chalk. It's really covered in chalk. And she thought this was unseemly. So, Donnie, a teaching smock would be a, the smock would be this garment that I could wear. It would be a chic smock. It would be a chic smock. And it would keep the chalk. With a band collar.

With a band collar and keep the chalk off my clothes. Yeah. keep the chalk off my clothes. You would presumably only wear that in school. Right. Not on a teaching smock, say on the weekends or on date night. Probably not, no.

Only in the halls of academia. So Kara has listed a number of new lifestyle regimes that you have adopted and abandoned and you are looking forward to other new lifestyle regimes um there are a little bit there it's hard to pin you down um other than you have distinct like they're not thematically aligned do you know what i mean it's not like all going into a sort of more pure homeopathic living of some kind or you know on the one hand you're powdering your socks on the other hand you're making bolo ties out of garbage and if you were to draw a connection between all of them what what role does starting these new things these new regimes these new ways of life

what what does it play what role does it play in your life what do they mean to you i think it's a way of uh like i've been you know i've been thinking about this lately uh because i knew that i was going to have to defend it in an internet courtroom. And I think it involves living with more intentionality. Or just more intention. Yeah, more intention. But it's good because then I can offload some of the intentionality to the regime, as you mentioned. And then it's like one less thing I have to worry about.

Although it actually gives me something that I have to worry about. Describe what you mean by saying offloading some of that. Yes, I thought that was interesting. With the sunrise alarm, it's very easy for me to know, you know, if I have to deliberate between sleeping in or not sleeping in, like, you know, I'm not going to sleep in because I have to wake up with the sunrise alarm like today. I'm saying hypothetically today. Today it's like 6.07. Tomorrow it's going to sleep in because I have to wake up at the sunrise alarm. I'm saying hypothetically today. Today it's like 6.07.

Tomorrow it's going to be 6.06. There wouldn't be some sort of thing where I would. It's the classic Jeff Goldblum in the fly talking about how, like Albert Einstein, he has all the same clothes, so he never has to think about what he, how he dresses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I've never quite gotten. And by the way, by the way, Colin, I have to apologize to you for being a pet aunt and correcting your word intentionality to intention. Intentionality is a perfectly valid word that I've just learned. I'm, I'm absolutely aghast and ashamed and I apologize and I won't correct you again. That's okay. I enjoy, I won't correct you again. That's okay. I enjoy it. I appreciate it.

So do you mean to say what a surprise for a guy who's waking up at sunrise for no good reason. Didn't think that would happen. Yeah, and turning his socks inside out for a reason that still eludes me.

What do you say? I'm still confused. I'm so confused. Here's my question. So you have washed the socks. They are clean socks. Are they a different material on the other side? Because all of my socks just tend to be the same sock material all the way around.

So wearing them inside out would essentially just be the same sock again. I'm, I'm just a little confused. How does turning your socks inside out prevent blisters? I read, this is some sort of old timey NBA secret. And I think it involves the seams in the involves the seams in the toes and the heels, because the seams are on one side and not on the other side. Ah.

Ah. I thought you said NBA secret, like a master's in business administration. Well, I think it might have started in the business field. This is what I learned. This is what Mitt Romney does. This is what Mitt Romney does. This is what Mitt Romney does. He turns his gold toes inside out. That sounds about right.

Yeah. Oh, maybe there's something to that. I don't know. Maybe you got all kinds of schemes and so forth, but specifically you're suggesting that by, by, uh,

setting your alarm at sunrise, how does that help you to live with more intentionality well um because i'm doing it on purpose yeah but how does it how does it allow you to shed the decision about when you wake up more more meaningfully than just setting your alarm for 6 a.m every day because that's the right? Yeah. Then the alarm is making a decision for you. Same way. I think, well, here's another way of thinking about it. Since we've moved here, you know, the seasons aren't as distinct as they were in New England. add more seasonal maybe call it shift or drift

into my schedule. Okay. The other thing I should know is that because this started, we moved into a different apartment back in February when I started this. I've been thinking of doing the sunrise alarm for a long time.

How long? This has been in gestation for a while. How long? Years. At least two. Possibly six. What gave you the idea to do it? It just occurred to me that it was something that could be done.

I should say, my goal was thinking that like someday you know someday i could grow up and maybe um um you know i could like yeah wake up at sunrise and then when sunset would happen just go to sleep or like not necessarily have to go to sleep but maybe like be ready to go to sleep and just live live way. You would have to wait until retirement. I understand that's not practical now. But maybe retire somewhere to the hills of western Massachusetts and just live that way. Colin, when you had thought of this idea, did you bring it up to Kara, the original sunrise alarm idea i'm sure i i sort of

mentioned it not years ago maybe not years ago you're you realize you realize that you're a young man but you're not henry davis no you're not you're not living you're not living in a cabin in the woods not yet right it's true not leaving it well first of all you're not living in a cabin in the woods not yet right it's true not leaving it well first of all you're not living in a cabin in the woods you're living in you're you're working in a school in taipei and second of all you're not living in a cabin in the woods by yourself living with another human being this is true this is about you i will say that so but you aspire to an agrarian style life but you live in a in a quite large world-class city uh and you have a demanding day job that i know from living with a school teacher myself is

exhausting what time do you go to bed well that's the other thing is that lately since i've been doing the sunrise alarm i've been getting better about going to bed at a reasonable hour. What time were you going to bed and what time are you going to bed now, roughly speaking? Before I was probably going to bed around 11. I would try to go to bed by 10, but it would turn into like 11, 30, 12, sometimes later. but it would turn into like 11, 30, 12, um, sometimes later. Um, now that I got the sunrise alarm, um, you know, I try to go to bed by like, yeah, by 10, 10 o'clock. Um, and, and when, and when you go to bed, Colin, what, Kara, how, how late do you stay up? Um, I have a pretty inconsistent schedule right now. Um, so it really depends. I try to stick to an 11 to 7 schedule,

but that hasn't been happening the past couple months. How much time are you guys getting to spend together as an actual newly married couple since making all of these schedule changes? Jean Grey with the sweet questions. What? On weekends, we see each other. Yeah, we spend a lot of time together. And are you doing the sunrise alarm on the weekends as well?

Yes. Yes, yeah. I'm not. I am. And that's what I'm saying. It's great because then even on the weekends i'm waking up at a reasonable time there's none of that um there's none of that feeling as though something is lost on monday when i have to wake up at the same time it's you know it goes the sun rise we went to visit my one weekend recently there was it was a holiday here

we went to visit my aunt she lives about two hours south of here um well 45 minutes on the high speed train and it's a little uh the city taichung it's a little east of uh it's a little east of taipei and so the sunrise alarm was at 5 45 in taipei but then we went to taichung it was uh 5 47 so it's like i gained two minutes how did you adjust well it was i'll did you adjust? Well, I'll tell you what, Josh. It was a little rough on the back end. It's heroin. I had to drop down to 544 on Sunday, but it was good. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. Cara, do you feel that this is, like, Colin says you guys hang out on the weekends and it's no big. In fact, he might even get extra time out of it because he's waking up early. But is this affecting your lives together on a weeknight basis? You guys socialize, you guys watch Game of Thrones. I don't know what goes on over there. How do you feel about your husband going to bed at 10 o'clock every night? Now it's okay. I'm pretty busy as well. But when we go back to Boston, we're probably going to be on a similar work schedule. So it would be nice if we could kind of have more of a similar sleeping schedule at that point and not have the sun kind of determining what his schedule is going to be and have practical matters decide what his schedule is going to be.

Well, this is a big issue because you are moving back to Boston, I presume on purpose, with intentionality. Yes, well played. And you sent me, Cara, a chart of the sunrise-sunset comparisons between Taipei and Boston. I can't read charts. You've crunched the numbers. You've looked at the data. What is the wrench that moving back to Boston will throw into this otherwise perfect system? There are two issues. The first one is that you can see the difference in the time between the earliest rise in Taipei and then in January, what will be the latest rise in Boston. And then the problem with the latest rise in Boston is that it's 714. And as a secondary school teacher, that's not,

14 and as a secondary school teacher, that's not, I mean, it would be impossible for him to use the sunrise alarm and still get to work on time. And I mean, I don't think that he's going to let it jeopardize his work, but if he's going to have to make an adjustment to the sunrise alarm, then I would say, why don't we just get rid of the sunrise alarm now than have to wait until it actually poses a problem in his life. Colin, do you disagree with Kara's assessment that the sunrise alarm will make it impossible for you to get to school on time once you move back to Boston, Massachusetts? Yeah, I disagree strongly.

I think one of the great things I've learned as um, as I've been, uh, wrapping my head around the sun, wrapping my head in my life around the sunrise alarm is that there are lots of different, um, sunrise. Well, there's one sunrise, but then there's like a, there's astronomical, uh, astronomical twilight, nautical twilight, civil twilight. Um, so, you know, it seems, it seems pretty straightforward that if, um, if we move back to Boston, in the event that the sunrise alarm was impractical, I could switch to like a civil twilight alarm or maybe a nautical twilight alarm or maybe an astronomical twilight alarm or maybe an astrological twilight alarm. Colin, it seems that a lot of this is the enjoyment in actually doing the research and finding out new things for you. Do you think it would just be possible to be able to research these things, learn about them, and then not actually have to make them a part of your life? I think that making them a part of my life represents a is um a more represents a more fuller experience of learning though do you feel like you are you know what maybe a better question um outside of i guess uh

teaching wise and and and and your job what are your creative outlets or and or hobbies? It all goes into teaching primarily. It goes primarily into teaching. But is there anything as an outlet that you say that just has nothing to do with, no offense, Cara, you, you know, just kind of your own thing where you feel like you're getting call-in time. And this is just a thing that you do to be able to express yourself, to be able to learn more about yourself and, you know, kind of just time away from everything. Sometimes when I write tests, you know, I try to. Yeah, that's still your job.

Yeah, that's my job. I don't really have a lot of stuff on set now. Hmm. Yeah, that's still your job. Yeah, that's my job. I don't really have a lot of stuff on set. Yeah. Hmm. You know, I used to have more creative outlets, but... What were they? You know, I used to play music. Like, I used to...

Primarily that, yeah. Why did you stop? I think when we moved, it was... I wasn't very good at playing music. Didn't enjoy it very much. Did someone tell you you weren't very good at playing music? No, I kind of figured it out. I think it's pretty clear that he's a terrible musician.

Don't bully the poor guy. What kind of music did you did you uh did you uh play unremarkable music come on now no don't this is like remember remember all those straight up brags i was doing before i want to hear yeah i want to hear a little bit of brag or at least at least not not uh not self-destroying humility. Yeah, I used to play rock music and stuff. All right. What kind of instrument do you play?

I used to play guitar, and I played the drums sometimes. I played the bass guitar. All right. I like the sound of that. So what did you get in that, Jean, by asking him these questions um my my initial uh response uh even even before uh talking to colin was i feel like he probably put something aside that he's trying to fulfill by doing all these other things um and as someone who does a lot of creative things and also has gone through many self-body experiments, such like only eating Skittles to see how my urine would turn out. Whoa.

We don't have to discuss that right now. Oh, we do. Oh, we could. Maybe everything that needs to be said about it has been said. Perhaps. everything that needs to be said about it has been said perhaps uh but i i do understand um you know kind of looking for these new things uh to put it and it is a way of creatively expressing yourself um and i learned when i put more of my effort into just actually doing more creative things, that those kind of new things really became less of a problem. So yeah, I kind of immediately knew that it was, hey, there's probably something creative

that you need to go back to in order. And that's probably a lot of the purpose that you're feeling like is gone. Even if someone tells you you're an awful musician, it doesn't matter. It's music. It's not going to be wrong. It's just something that your soul kind of needs to do. Does that make any sense to you, Colin? It makes sense to me.

The thing I'll say is that I was doing a lot of these things back when I was not necessarily the things I'm doing now, but I was doing new things back when I was playing music. Like I used to, at one time I tried to create a, I called it the Sea Captain Diet. I was going to eat cornmeal and molasses. Oh, I can't wait to hear this. Wait, I'm sorry, I overspoken. What was it?

Cornmeal and molasses? Yeah, it was like cornmeal and molasses and salt cod. Are you sure this is the Sea Captain's Diet? salt cod. I'm a vegetarian. Are you sure this is the sea captain's diet? It sounds more like the cabin boy's diet. It didn't last very long, Josh. How did you develop the sea captain's diet?

Did you read a book? Of course not. Of course not. No, I was just kind of shooting from the hip. Just... Kara. I'm sorry, Jean. I just didn't know the sea captains were into those kind of...

Just molasses a lot. Kara, did you... Some of what Colin is describing, some of this behavior that he's describing is this part of why you fell in love with him the sea captain diet was before we knew each other um i i would say i i appreciate his eccentricities but not when they just become rules that he likes to live by. I think that part of him just kind of likes inconvenience and trying to find a way around the inconvenience. And that seems to be the direction that these new things are going. It sounds to me like he's trying to find his way around convenience.

He's trying to avoid convenience whenever possible. So when you learn that he once spent some time eating salt cod and cornmeal and molasses, or when you became aware of his habit of devising new and arbitrary self-control habits to the point that you would write into an Internet judge to intervene, were you have you are you troubled by it? I wouldn't say troubled. I would say that the sunrise alarm is the closest that I'm getting to troubled because if it continues, I know that it will affect our social lives, especially once we're back in Boston and hopefully have a little more time to socialize. So yeah, I feel like I can see the direction that this is going in. And you don't like the way it looks. All right. And truthfully, is there anything that he has done specifically with the sunrise alarm?

I mean, I felt when I asked you this at the beginning, and I want to revisit this for one second. I said, what has been the negative impact to you and and i think what you described was the embarrassment that you feel when colin brings up his sunrise alarm and his elixirs of health and his sock deodorizing skills and other sort of his other, his other new programs in social settings in a way that's embarrassing to you. Is that, does that really describe it or is there more to it than that? That describes it for right now. All right. You,

you get up whenever you feel like you want to get up, right? Yeah. Whenever it makes sense to get up. And what time do you go to bed? Me? Yeah. Um, well sense to get up. And what time do you go to bed? Me? Yeah. Well, it kind of depends. I try to stick to an 11 to 7 schedule, but I've had to make a lot of calls back to the U.S. the past couple months, so that kind of makes it more difficult.

an evening for now, never mind what might happen in Boston next. Do you feel of an evening abandoned by your husband to this? He's left you for his weird new sleep schedule? I don't think he's left me, but it does take up conversation time. And like the other night, we were listening to a podcast and like just before it ended or right when it was ending he was like all right well the sun rises and six hours from now so i better go to bed good night so it does it does take away from from some relationship right how did that make you feel i think i think how did that make you feel? I think I think. How did that make you feel? Less important than the sun. I think I've heard everything I need to hear.

I am going to go set the alarm in my chambers to come out at precise in precisely. Four minutes. And I will render my verdict at that time. Okay. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Colin, what do you think of your chances here, and are you thinking of a new thing right now? I'm not thinking of a new thing. I'm not feeling good about my chances and you know it was funny I woke up this morning

at astronomical twilight and I thought about how it occurred to me it kind of hit me that maybe yesterday would have been the last day of the sunrise alarm and I'm feeling real dread about not waking up tomorrow at sunrise

I gotta admit it felt like I could have made a better case to the judge. It does sound like a lot of fear. Cara, how about you? I'm feeling great. I feel like I made a decent case. I trust the judge's decision, so we'll have to see. Okay. We'll be back in just a moment with Judge Hodgman's decision. So we'll have to see. Okay. We'll be back in just a moment with

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. It was not exactly four minutes, and now I feel really unclean. I feel like I've got to go dust myself off with baking powder before I even start with my verdict.

I just thought that's how you're going to come in, but you didn't. Yeah, you know, I overheard you through the chamber door, Colin, that you didn't make a strong enough case. And I would say that's true. I mean, you know, I think that the reason that you didn't make a strong enough case, I am not saying that you are a narcissist. I am not saying that you are a narcissist, but what you are doing is narcissistic in that it is preoccupied with yourself to the exclusion of the person with whom you are sharing your life. It is not actively disruptive to Kara's life.

And I don't know, I can't really gauge the degree to which it is really emotionally disruptive at this point. But I think Kara feels that sometimes these habits, which affect your life profoundly, particularly the sunrise alarm, are more important to you than she is. And I would note that it's not just the time that you wake up and the time you go to bed, but the concern that she has with the amount of time that you discuss it with her and with others and the way that it runs your life. I mean, it does.

It's you running your life or you ceding control to the heavens, to the celestial bodies, right? But it's something that you're spending a lot of time thinking about and enjoying personally. If you were a person living life on your own, I would have no problem with any of this so long as it was not intrusive uh upon your daily life in in a destructive way you know what i mean like yeah this is a time of your life where you've got to be figuring out how you're how do

you want to live you know um your 20s is a great time for you to turn your socks inside out and see how that goes to figure out maybe you're not you know maybe you're maybe you can be a morning person maybe that's more fun and productive in your life um maybe it's a time to wear uh wear bolo ties made out of earbuds and try out new things. And the truth is that you have every right to pursue these weird, self-designed programs of self-perfection, even within a marriage. One thing I'm convinced of about the sunrise alarm is that you are getting a lot out of it personally.

Correct, Colin? Yeah, that's correct. You're having a good time, right? Yeah, that's correct. And it is perhaps more meaningful to you than your Bud Bolo tie or gargling with apple cider vinegar,

that it is meaningful to you enough to try to fight for it in your own quiet agrarian way. But it is important to appreciate that you are sharing your life with someone else. You are not alone in a cabin. And Thoreau was a was a total narcissist thoreau sat out there in that cabin and was it was not only a narcissist in the sense that he was devoting his life to his own beautiful thoughts and flute playing in the woods but he was a narcissist to the point where his his his he wasn't going to let his project get

in the way of his desire for a sweet pie from his friend ralph waldo emerson's kitchen and he would just walk over there anytime he wanted some real food you know i mean like no rules applied to the road uh and it's really the it's really the the fact that cara is is saying that um she feels that the things the projects the new things are are eclipsing uh her importance in your mind. That is the thing that as a husband, you have to pay attention to. Not now, but in the future, Jean Grey and I are going to have a chambers only episode in which we will discuss a woman who is married and an adult who has a teddy bear she's had since childhood

that she wants to sleep with in the marital bed. And the husband doesn't dig it. and they're having a fight over this and this is a similar sort of thing uh i won't i won't spoil for you the outcome because that is going to happen in the future yeah um but uh this is a similar situation where a profound personal connection that one person in the marriage has is emotionally disruptive to the other person. And when do you call it off? I think that the, to balance that point of view, however,

is the fact that you guys are in Taipei. You have, you have been enjoying a perfect five-year mind-broadening life, more interesting adventure in a foreign country. You have gotten a master's degree. You have taught in another language. You have experienced something that many, many Americans won't, and you're getting ready to move back to Boston and resume what some people would call a normal life. And for that reason and that reason alone, I think if you're going to be trying out new life regimes this is the time to do it i think that i think that you are both uh you're both young in your marriage and you're both young in your lives

and uh and and with regard to the specific issue here the specific uh regime at issue here in this case uh this is this is not right now a terrible time to be getting up with the sun every morning and experiencing as much of this daytime as you can specifically since it doesn't seem like you guys you would go out on the town a whole lot of the time do you know what i mean and you're sacrificing a lot cara hasn't made the case that that you are you are causing her to sacrifice a social life in the evening in Taipei that you would otherwise have by staying up an hour or two later so I don't have any problem with the sunrise

clock right now I think that it is you must acknowledge that it is selfish you must acknowledge I mean it is but in the same way you know look I have a friend this is a straight up brag, too. I'm friends with an amazing writer named Heidi Julewicz, who just came out with a book called The Folded Clock, which is a series of essays in the form of journal entries. And she talks very, very thoughtfully and funnily about the alienation she feels from her husband whenever he goes on a diet.

And he goes on extreme diets that are not about losing weight, but are about controlling his life in an ascetic sort of way. In the same way that you're doing with the sunrise clock. And considering doing with becoming kosher or halal for no reason because you you don't care do you know what i mean um these become these are life projects that we undertake they are the you know any diet you know is a is a is a project of trying to create and sustain a new version of yourself and when you are when you are going into a project as consuming as what you consume, or when you wake up, or how you live, it can be a profound journey, as long as it's healthy, into self-discovery, because that is what asceticism is. You give up something,

or you align yourself to a strict uh in order to discover things about yourself it is life with intentionality and it's great and it's interesting but it's selfish and you have to be cognizant of how your selfish project uh is is perceived by one would presume the most important person in your life who isn't you, Colin, and experienced by it. And if the experience is negative, you need to take that into account in a way that I'm not sure talking to you, I don't get a gut feeling that you're really taking that into account yet. So I'm issuing this warning. Go forth and wake up at sunrise, at least until you guys move back to Boston. When you move back to Boston,

I anticipate that your life for the various charts and graphs that Kara has presented with me is going to have to change. But I think that you should be more attuned to how Kara experiences your projects and to self-modify accordingly rather than going by the charts of sunrises and sunsets in Boston. Be aware, right? Make this as much your new project as anything else. How your experience of these little self-improvement projects affects the most important person in your life was Cara and make that part of your project as well. Do you see what I mean? Because the truth is you're not going to live in Western Massachusetts and go to bed with the sun

and wake up with the sun in perfect retirement until you move out there and do it. You know what I mean? I'm not sure if Cara wants to do that. You know, that's not the life, that's not the life, you know, you're leading. You, you can, you can engage in these projects, but make sure that you're living the life that you're actually, that is actually around you in the moment. And that life that's actually around you in the moment will involve school schedules in Boston, uh, and the sun as it shines on that cold, hard place known as the hub of the universe, Boston, Massachusetts. But it also and always involves your wife. So continue on rising with the sun. When you move back to Boston, I urge you to reassess. Indeed,

I order you to. And have a serious conversation with Kara about it and hear what she has to say at that time. But for now, with that due warning, since Kara has not proven that it is actively disruptive, it's merely embarrassing. I'm not going to order you to stop waking up with the sun any morning. I find in the favor of the defendant, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Colin, how do you feel about the judge's decision? I feel elated.

I feel relieved. And I think he his decision was fair. I think it was sound. And I'll take his words to heart. Wonderful. I apologize. Is it Kara or Kara?

Kara. I don't apologize. Kara. Do you think? Look, you guys, I've been on the Nick. I've been on Mozart of the Jungle. I know Heidi Julewicz. I know Jean Grey.

I don't apologize for anything. The world has to organize itself around me and my personal self-improvement project of bragging all the time. Sorry, I didn't remember your name. Cara, Cara, whatever it is. I apologize. No, I really am sorry.

I apologize. I apologize to you too, Jean Grey, for interrupting you. Go ahead. I apologize. No, I really am sorry. I apologize. I apologize to you too, Jean. Great for interrupting you. Go ahead. I apologize. No, it's fine. It was great. Carrara, as it will be known now.

Do you think the decision was fair? I think it was fair. I can only hope that Colin will really reevaluate his sleeping schedule once we get back to Boston. his sleeping schedule once we get back to Boston. I am super excited for both of you. And thank you for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll do this again. This is wonderful. That was amazing. Judging people. Yeah, it's fun, right? Yeah, and they were lovely. They were lovely.

I still think he needs to, you know, go play some instruments. Yeah, I think you found, you know, normally I'm the crux finder on this, but I think you found the crux of this this is that he is in need of some expression. Yes. And I just really, as someone who goes through all of these, I change my diet. I've done macrobiotic and vegan and like all these. And then I try just weird things. And I'm like, oh, this week I'm only eating green beans.

And then you get to a place where you're like, I just need to moderate. And you know, since you are a creative person who makes things, that exercising or seeking creative output in the things that you consume is paradoxical and does not compute. It does not. You know, this is sort of my issue with foodism. I love food and I love cooking and I love making food. Do you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. But at what point does taking pictures of everything you eat in a restaurant, is that differentiated in any way by buying shoes or collecting videot, buying shoes or buying or collecting videotapes? You know what I mean? Yeah. That people who define themselves by their collections. Yes. You know, often get great comfort and solace out of that sort of thing.

But in my mind, and forgive me, collectors, it's never quite the substitute for making something yourself with your hands. Exactly. Making something out of nothing and just the idea of the alchemy in it. And it's a very big deal. And you don't necessarily have to share all of that all the time. Right. Or just playing a song on a guitar or ukulele that you don't write, but you learn how to play. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's something profoundly therapeutic to it. And I don't mean to put down those people who take pictures of food.

Well, if you use a flash in a restaurant. Yeah, right. Right, right. Because that'll overcook the food. Just don't do that. You're really, yeah, you're just, right. In any case, Jean, thank you so much for bailiffing.

You are wonderful. You are a creator. You create so many things. jeangrey.bandcamp.com is the one-stop shop for those people in their lives who make nothing and have to fill up the emptiness in their lives by buying things.

And I encourage them to buy all the things from you. Yes, please. Because you make a lot of things. Many things. And you have a new album coming out in June. Yes. With Quelle Cris called I Sweater God. That is correct.

Is that correct? I Sweater God. That's going to be good. That is correct. Is that correct? I swear to God. That's going to be good. And two days from this very day, if you live in New York City or environs, at the Bell House, one of the great performance venues in the world, Jean, you're doing something called May Day Melee?

It is the May Day Melee. And I wasn't planning on doing anything coming up soon, just because I've got 90 million things to do. But I'm super excited about it because, you know, sometimes at the last minute, I'll get a night and then I'll have to figure out everything around it. So I will be hosting my very own first late night talk show. Yeah. With guests and commercials and a DJ and segments and ponies. One pony. Not many ponies. A real pony?

Maybe. They're letting you have a real pony? Maybe. Maybe. Many surprises to come. Things. And followed by a dance party. That sounds fantastic.

Yes. And this will be at the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York. Yes. On the shores of the Gowanus Canal, Friday, May 1st, at what time? Get there at 7.30. And you can get tickets via this website, thebellhouseny.com. That's T-H-E-B-E-L-L-h-o-u-s-e-n-y.com as for me i john hodgman uh have some uh live appearances coming up i've been mentioning

my appearance in charleston west virginia that's on june 22nd you can go to johnhodgman.com slash tour and find the ticket link for that i am also, you will also see links for my appearances at the Wilco Solid Sound Festival at the end of June. That's June 27th and 28th, if I remember correctly. Not only, if you buy tickets, go to North Adams, Massachusetts, in the very place that Colin dreams of becoming an agrarian sleepy gentleman. North Adams, Massachusetts is the home to the Wilco Solid Sound Festival.

Wilco will be playing two big concerts, two nights, and I am curating the comedy stage. Wow. As I always do on the Saturday of the festival, the comedy stage will be going on all afternoon with performances by me, Paul F. Tompkins, Jessica Williams of the daily show,

Tig Notaro, and the gentlemen of the super ego podcast, and maybe other special guests. If they happen to show up and see the show, it's a really great thing. Yeah, I know you, Jean,

you ought to come up. Oh man. Yeah. It's going to be a big blast. Taj Mahal is playing at the festival. Taj Mahal is playing at the festival. Parquet Courts is playing at the festival. It's a big deal, and it's very, I think, very reasonably priced, and it only happens every other year, so I hope you will check it out.

And then in the fall, September 12th, I will be returning to the Wilbur Theater. Tickets are on sale now. It's one of my favorite. It favorite Wilbur Theater in Boston, Massachusetts One of my favorite places to play And you can go and buy tickets All the tour dates and appearances are always available at johnhodgman.com slash tour And don't forget, I will be narrating

a new narration of Benjamin Britten's A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra with the Boston Pops on May 14th 15th, excuse me 13th, 14th, and 16th. Details are on my website and also at pso.org under the Boston Pops area. So that's all my stuff that's coming up. After all my solo shows, I'll always do a meet and greet, and I hope that I will get to see you at one of them. and I hope that I will get to see you at one of them.

And Jean Grey, I hope I get to see you real soon as well, in person or on the internet, where you are at J-E-A-N Greasy, G-R-E-A-S-Y, at Jean Greasy, and at Instagram at... Jeannie Greasio. Jeannie Greasio, J-E-A-N-N-I-E-G-R-I-G-I-O. Spelling is hard.

It is a lot. JeanGray.BandCamp.com. The name of our case this week was provided by Lisa J. Harris. Thank you, Lisa. Our producer is Julia Smith. Our editor is Mark McConville. If you have a case that you would like to submit to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, it is easy to do it. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. That's JJHO, where you can fill out a form or email me directly.

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Judd Nelson Judd Nelson episodes. I've come to learn that Judge John Hodgman is not an easy thing to say It's very difficult I've practiced. As I'm frequently introduced now as Judge Judd Hodgman is not an easy thing to say is it's very difficult. As I'm frequently introduced now as judge, judge, judgment judges, hodge,

judge, Jean gray. Did I forget anything? Um, no, they can just stay tuned and I always have stuff going on. So just pay attention. We'll see you next time on the judge,

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