Judge John Hodgman - The Potluck Problem

Episode Date: March 9, 2011

Two best friends disagree on the morality of the potluck. One says it's a great opportunity for everyone to pitch in. One says it's a sign of a host who's abdicated responsibility for the party. Only one man can decide who's right.

it's the judge john hodgman podcast i'm bailiff jesse thorn we're in the chambers of judge john hodgman with judge hodgman greetings we have an exciting case this week concerning potluck dinners but before we get to it i thought that we could take this opportunity to clear the docket of a few food related cases if you're prepared to render some judgments that is judge hodgman let's clear the docket. Here's the first case. Pat writes that being a big Maximum Fun, Max Fun Con type of guy, he believes that the only person who can possibly end a debate he's been having with his friend Danchi is you, Judge Hodgman. Do we know that Pat is a man or a woman?

We know that Pat is a man. Okay. Not that it makes a difference, mind you. I just want to know. He says, I am very opposed to people eating cupcakes except maybe for a six-year-old's birthday. I feel that cupcakes mean making a minor concession in the area of frosting

to cake ratio and without use of a fork, you lose proper control of that ratio on a bite-to-bite level. Every time I eat a cupcake, I find that I am forced into a few unsatisfying frosting-free bites. His friend says that they are cute and convenient, and he says that it is an affectation. Cuteness has no place in cake, and that cake does not need to be eaten in a situation in which you can't use a fork. That's what brownies and cookies are for. So he's an obsessive

on this issue. He also says he bakes about one cake a week and he never, ever, ever makes cupcakes. And he never, ever, ever makes cupcakes. So he says, is the cupcake a meaningful expression of the baking arts? Well, at first I thought Pat was someone who took caking very seriously and maybe admirably seriously. And then once he started talking about a few unsatisfying frosting-free bites, I started to feel a little nervous for Pat. Pat started to seem a little cake snobby. And then when I learned that Pat was making one cake a week, I began to be worried for Pat's mental health.

I think this might be a someone, like a cake hoarder of some kind. And I'm worried about this person. Look, cupcakes are not my favorite, but I think it's hard to describe something that you might enjoy, as Pat says, at a six-year-old birthday party as an affectation. Six-year-olds are not affected in this way.

It is not something that they are putting on for a show. They like them, just like other people like them. Pat may find them juvenile, but they are a viable form of baked goods. And you know I hate sweets, so I find in the favor of Pat's friend who enjoys life and isn't worried about cake so much. Here's the next one from Steven. He says, Your Honor, my name is Steven and my girlfriend Megan and I have been in a heated argument for over a year now over the expiration dates on food packages. She will often try to prepare items that are over a month past their expiration date, claiming that the date on the package is merely a suggestion.

I believe that these dates are to be followed for the safety of those eating the food. Stop. I'm going to make my judgment right now, as does every right-thinking person in the world. Yes, Stephen, you are correct. Your girlfriend is wrong. Your girlfriend, ask your girlfriend next time, just out of curiosity, if she believes in germ theory,

because she's acting, she is acting like a, even a medieval charwoman would have more sense than to cook something a month after it was designed to be et. So no, she really, you either need to, um,

help her to understand that those dates are there for a very serious reason or come to the inevitable conclusion that she's trying to poison you. Here's one last question from Tycho and Zoe. Uh, they're the hosts of the it's on Craigslist podcast. They ask when milk is poured over cereal, is it a beverage, a sauce, or a broth? Tycho says that it's a beverage because it's not a sauce, which is, in his opinion, made up of several ingredients and sits on top of the meal, and it's not a broth, which is usually thin, translucent, and savory.

Zoe argues that it is a broth because it best describes the relationship of milk to cereal, a liquid and the various other ingredients that sit in it, and they are consumed equally with the main item. equally with the main item. So, the question is, is milk poured on cereal a sauce, broth, or beverage? Well, the only possible answer to a question like this is they're both wrong

because the question makes no sense. You might as well be asking me, when it comes to putting milk in cereal, is it a paperback, a hardcover, or a flying griffin? Like, these terms don't apply. I mean, honestly, if you had to choose among the three, the answer would be, and they're both wrong in this case, not a beverage, not a broth, but a sauce. Because sauce has the widest definition.

Tycho is wrong. A sauce is not necessarily thick and is not necessarily right on top. It is, in fact, there are all kinds of thin sauces that are mixed into ingredients, such as soy sauce, for example. And it is certainly not a broth because it is not made by simmering over a long period of time with meat or other ingredients. Basically, milk is a thin, it is an unthickened bechamel sauce insofar as all it's lacking is a roux. It's become one of the master sauces of all time. The master sauces being the central sauces of French cuisine and also the ones that live in Castle Grayskull. However, even that is not true because all sauces, broths, and beverages are defined by their transformation from individual ingredients.

Milk itself is an individual ingredient. It is not made in combination with anything else. And I think what you have to say is that milk is an ingredient in the overall dish of cereal with milk. I don't think there's any other way to explain it. For a minute there, I thought you were advocating the addition of onions, carrot, and celery to cereal. I am advocating the addition of bechamel sauce to cornflakes. That is delicious. Well, Judge Hodgman, before we get to the case today, I would like to mention that it is the Max Fund Pledge Drive. Well, that's very good, Jesse, because I also would like to mention it.

This is the second of two Maximum Fund Drive episodes of Judge John Hodgman. This is essentially how it works. This program stars you, Judge John Hodgman, and is produced by MaximumFund.org. That is the website that I run, and it produces a number of podcasts, including my public radio show, The Sound of Young America, and some comedy shows like Stop Podcasting Yourself and My Brother, My Brother and Me and Casper Hauser, among others. I feel like you're Donald Sutherland in JFK, where you're like breaking down all the relationships between all the various shadowy groups that make this thing happen. And then

he says, follow the money. But guess what? There is no money. The show is produced by MaximumFun.org. That means that Julia Smith, whose name you hear in the credits, is the person who sifts through all the suggestions and calls all the people and arranges things and goes over people's arguments with them and so on and so forth. And Jesse, may I just say, boy, isn't she terrific? Yeah, she's really awesome.

She is really, really awesome. And one of the big things that we're trying to do in this MaxFunDrive is try and bring Julia from the part-time employee that she was just a few months ago to a permanent full-time employee so she can, among other things, do that regularly. And in order to do that, we need your support. And we've had such a wonderful response to this show. I mean, tens of thousands of people listening every week and we get forwarded. It seems like something every week where someone is talking about how great it is.

We heard we heard it on one of the NPR pop culture podcasts recently. Thanks, guys. Absolutely. Thank you very much. All kinds. We were just in the A.V. Club, guys. Absolutely. Thank you very much. All kinds. We were just in the AV Club, the Onion AV Club, another one of my favorite media outlets

the other day. Right, and Mark Fraunfelder on Boing Boing. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you something. It's extremely gratifying to know that the show is finding an audience. I'm really glad to know that so many people out there

are fighting about things because I really enjoy solving their problems for them and telling them how to live. And I enjoy it so much that I do it without compensation. But that doesn't mean that Julia has to be a charitable jerk like me. She deserves she deserves a living wage. Absolutely. And it's easy to support Judge John Hodgman and all of Maximum Fund. All you have to do is go to MaximumFun.org slash donate. There are donation levels that anyone can afford.

And no matter what level you donate at, you get a cool thank you gift, including an episode of Judge Sean Hodgman that you will only have the opportunity to listen to if you donate. opportunity to listen to if you donate. That episode, by the way, decides the question of who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Mike Tyson. And let me tell you, Jesse, that's not, that one is not just a dinger. It's a humdinger. We'll talk to you in just a little bit about some of the cool stuff you can get and so on and so forth at MaximumFun.org slash donate in just a minute, but let's go to the courtroom. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the potluck problem. Is a potluck a great way to gather friends for fun and food, or is it a way for lazy hosts to mooch off of their friends' hard work? Ben brings the case against his friend Jenny,

who believes that the potluck is a, quote, great social equalizer, unquote, that allows people of lesser financial means to entertain their friends. Ben, on the other hand, thinks that while the potluck is great in theory, in the real world it puts too much of the burden on party guests and distributes the work among them unevenly. Will the custom of friends sharing salads in six-packs succumb to a one-host, one-provider system?

In Judge John Hodgman's courtroom, only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Oyez, oyez, oyez. It's baby cutting in half time. That's my new catchphrase. What do you think? I like here comes the judge. Yeah, I know.

Sit down, everybody. Sit down. Okay, Jesse Thorne, would you please swear in the defendant and complainant? Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling

despite his near-obsessive interest in cutting babies in half? Yes. Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Okay, which one of you is the complainant? I believe that would be me. And state your name, please, for the record.

My name is Ben, and I live in Boston, Massachusetts. Boston, Massachusetts. The hub, the hub of the universe. The most myopic town in town. Where do you live in Boston? That's sort of my hometown. I'm from Brookline, as you know. I live in the South End. Oh, I see. Would you, you're fixing up a brownstone there?

No, not exactly. That's all been done. That's all been done. You're a young person. All the brownstones have been fixed, right? True. Yeah. What do you do there in Boston? I do marketing. I work from home. And, okay. And in your spare time, you complain about parties? Yes, I actually throw a lot of parties in my spare time, which... Okay, before you start buzz marketing your in-home DJ service, let's hear about your complaint. Well, Jenny and I have been friends for a very long time, since freshman year of college. And what age are you now? I am 28 now. Okay. And

Jenny and I are still great friends, but we have kind of an impasse in our relationship, which is that she's consistently trying to invite friends over for potluck dinners. And I have repeatedly told her I will not participate in this ever. And she really needs to revise her view on the potluck dinner. Wait, she's inviting people over for potluck dinners. Do you share a domicile? We do not, no. Okay. So she's inviting people over to potluck dinners at her house and you are refusing to go?

This is correct. And the principle is you hate potluck dinners? I do, but I feel like I'm also not alone in this problem. I'll be the judge of that. Go on. Why do you hate potluck dinners so? There are a number of people like me within a group. So you claim.

So you claim. That we always feel obligated by peer pressure to participate in these potluck dinners, to bring items, one or more items like everyone else to a dinner. But no one wants to be the guy to stand up and say, your potluck dinner idea sucks and look like a jerk in front of all of your friends or people you might not even know. Do you know what tautology has been? No, I don't. You were saying, I don't like potluck dinners because I don't like potluck dinners. Tell me why you don't like potluck dinners.

And leave your tautology hot dish at home. No one likes homework, so no one wants to go home. You're saying I loved homework. So I just like to interject here that when I was in high school, my friend who I used to ask for extra calculus homework. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. None of your statements are standing up here, Ben, but go on, go on. I'll allow it.

Go on. Okay. So no one likes homework. No one likes homework. Everyone feels burdened by this potluck dinner idea when you should be excited about it, okay? That's the first thing. The second thing is potlucks, they treat every aspect of a meal the same way. It's not the same thing to go down to the store and repackage Entenmann's cookies as your own

as it is to spend 10 hours making a brisket. There's just a huge difference in labor there. And this whole premise of equality is total garbage. Barbecue brisket or braised brisket? I'm talking braised brisket, the Jewish style. Many, many hours in the oven simmering. Yeah, I know what braising means. Go on. Okay. Sorry. So to continue, the work is never equal. And if you cook too much, you're pissed off at the people who cook less. And if you cooked very little, you feel guilty among the people who felt like they did a lot more work.

So no one is happy. Maybe some people are just angry all the time, Ben. Well, that's kind of my role in this. And I feel – I mean, yes, maybe I have some anger issues to work on. However, I feel like many people share my my concerns, but no one is willing to stand up for the everyman and say, potluck dinners are an abomination. So I'm trying to give voice to those people. I know you have not proved that that's the everyman. You're not even you haven't even proved that that's the some man, but you were willing to stand up for the one man,

and I appreciate that. You're saying potluck dinners are no good because it treats people who buy cookies the same as people who simmer briskets for 10 hours.

It treats the intensely lazy along with the intensely show-offy. I get you. How do you respond to this? Jenny? Shh. Be quiet now. Yes.

It's Jenny's turn. So I'd like to point out from the get-go that Ben likes things done a certain way. By the way, Braised Brisket is delicious, by the way. Sorry, Jenny, I just need to say. Okay, thank you. It's probably apparent at this point that Ben likes things done a certain way. And I think the real problem here is that potlucks involve an element of surprise, and that doesn't conform to the way Ben likes to do things. I think potlucks involve an element of surprise, and that doesn't conform to the way

Ben likes to do things. I think potlucks are an excellent approach to parties, and in the same way that Ben would make this argument, I think a lot of people would agree with me. They're fun. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Jenny. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Please start that sentence again. They're fun. Start there. They're fun and a great venue for creativity, and they give people a feeling of investment in the party that they're attending, which I think They're fun. Start there. They're fun and a great venue for creativity. And they give people a feeling of investment in the party that they're attending, which I think that makes people feel as though they're having a better time. And a lot of people are more comfortable when they bring something to a party.

I think probably the best argument is that they make excellent economic sense, particularly right now in these difficult economic times, I think that should be a driving factor in the kind of party you're choosing to throw, right? So in a potluck situation, the host isn't burdened with the entire cost of throwing the party. It's distributed among everybody who attends. So you don't have to be rich to throw a party. That also helps to ensure that more parties will be thrown if people aren't feeling that intense financial burden every time they want to get people together, which I think we're all in favor of more parties will be thrown if people aren't feeling that intense financial burden every time they want to get people together, which I think we're all in favor of more parties as opposed to less parties.

So in the same way also that it shifts the financial burden around, it also shifts the party preparation time around. So we're not all equal in terms of financial resources, and we're not all equal in terms of the resources of time that we have. So that makes it more likely that anybody could throw a party. Well, the tradition. And finally. Okay, go on. Go on, counselor. No, go on, counselor.

That's fine. So a lot of my friends and a lot of Ben's friends have dietary restrictions or preferences. And I'm vegetarian. Ben's not. I'm sorry I can't chip in on the brisket conversation. But, for instance, I have a number of vegan friends who enjoy being able to bring something to a potluck that they know that they'll like to eat. Whereas if they go to a party thrown by a carnivore and that person doesn't have any idea what vegans like and there's going to be a plate of carrot sticks there, that's no fun. So this way, at least if you bring something that you know you'll like, there'll be something that you can eat.

Right. If you go to Ben's Brisket Bash, the vegetarians are going to be out of luck. So those are all the reasons why I think potlucks are great. But I think there are also a number of faulty assumptions underlying Ben's arguments. One of the biggest ones is that I think he believes that in a normal party situation, so not a potluck, if we were going to call a non-potluck a regular party. The guests are somehow free of obligation. They just show up and are entertained. I think that's kind of not true. I'm not an economist, but I learned a long time ago that there's an economic principle that there's no such thing as free lunch.

And I think that applies here. You attend a party and there's an expectation that you're going to throw a party at some point down the road so that you can repay the favor. And also, most people feel obligated to bring something to a party. Not a lot of people feel comfortable showing up empty-handed. I know I don't. Well, wait a minute. All right, here.

I have to stop you right now. This is a very eloquent argument that you're making in favor of your case. I was advised ahead of time that you are an attorney, whereas Ben is some sort of party promoter in the South End. I don't know what he does. Works from home doing something. Here's where I agree with you. Ben, I trust you agree with me as well. No one goes to a party empty-handed, correct?

Exactly. It's a voluntary gesture, yes. What is that supposed to mean, this voluntary gesture? No, that people feel like they want to bring something to a party, but feeling like you're required to bring something to a party, it's a very different feeling. You are required to bring something to a party every time you go to a party, period. I don't care what it is, even if it's a box of endemic cookies. So it's a matter of perception.

Excuse me. It's exactly the same. No, no, this is basic human decency. Right, Ben? We agree? You bring a bottle of wine, a box of cookies, a plate of nachos, something to a party if you're going to a party. Let's put it this way. If Jenny was working late at the office and wanted to come to my house party that we were having and she had just gotten off work and she said, Ben, I can't bring anything to the party.

Is that cool? Clearly, I would say yes. Of course, there are extenuating circumstances. You let someone off the hook from time to time. But as a matter – as a rule of thumb, it doesn't have to be a 10-hour braised brisket. You bring something to a party no matter what. Can we just agree on that? We can, but I guess I prioritize people over the food.

All right. You have brought some evidence to bear, have you not, Ben? You sent in some photographic evidence? I have, yeah. Okay, you sent me some photographs. You sent in some photographic evidence? I have, yeah. Okay, you sent me some photographs.

And the photographs I see are some people in a dingy basement pouring vodka into a cup. And then some man is standing over a turntable in the middle of an otherwise respectable living room. Is that you? That is me, and that's Jenny's living room. You're rocking the wheels of steels in Jenny's living room. Nice house, by the way, Jenny. I like the choice of color on the wall. And then I see another photo of, would seem that same man, mopping up some kind of horrible spill from Jenny's otherwise beautiful carpet. Can you explain that? This was just to demonstrate that, you know, in many contexts, Jenny has turned to me for help with throwing parties. And I have been more than happy to help her with this. And this was true in college when we were younger. And it's been true in more recent

years when I've helped her throw parties and they've all been excellent. Jenny, is what he's saying true? Do you invite him to help out at parties or does he just show up with his turntables and his monitor and start like rocking it? I do. What can you tell me about this stain on your carpet? I think it was red wine. Oh, okay.

It was a little party foul on behalf of Ben. It was not me. All right. Well, maybe this is a dispute for another time. It is. So Ben, what you're talking about and you have a history of throwing parties that Jenny has enjoyed. Is that correct?

Yeah. I mean, if it wasn't for me helping Jenny throw parties, her a cappella group in college would never have gotten out of debt. Whoa, whoa. That's a big accusation to make, a cappella group. What are we talking about? I don't think we were in debt. Were you in an a cappella group? Yes.

What was the a cappella group? It was called Nothing But Trouble at Oberlin College. Oh, okay. Acapella group at Oberlin College. I went to Yale, so that's kind of fourth tier acapella for me. What'd you sing? It changed, but usually like a, like an alto or a low soprano. And what was your favorite song to sing? I sang Billie Jean. That was kind of awesome. All right, give me a little. No, no. Absolutely not. I don't think it'll help my arguments here today. I think it would help tremendously. I may even say that my judgment relies upon your willingness to sing a little Billie Jean. How's that? I'm not sure that that really counts. I'm just going to make a little mark here.

Okay. So he threw some fundraising parties for your acapella group. Is that correct? No, I wouldn't characterize it that way. It was more of a joint effort. Ben, what do you say? Well, I mean, you know, who created the party and the venue and the invitations and getting the word out?

That was us. That was me and my friends. Jenny helped us with the running of the party. And as she said, she provided services. Did the party have a theme? They changed from week to week, month to month. Like what would be a theme? Billie Jean?

We had an 80s Halloween party. Billie Jean, brisket bash. Wine spill party. A pilot or pirate party. Gilbert and Sullivan party. Philly Jean, Brisket Bash. Winespill party. A pilot or pirate party. Gilbert and Sullivan party. Yep, yep, I got it. Pirates of Penzance, I got it. I got the reference.

Ben, let me ask you this question. Not all parties are like that, you understand. There is a long tradition of potluck suppers, which typically non-college students, grownups do church suppers, that sort of thing. Communities get together and spend time together without a DJ and discuss issues of the day in the community and all share homemade dishes with one another. Are you familiar with this communal kind of party? I am, yes.

Do you recognize that that is a valid kind of party or do you hate that kind of party? I am, yes. Do you recognize that that is a valid kind of party, or do you hate that kind of party? I don't prefer them, but in the situation of a group gathering that's for an organization or something that everyone has a stake in, yes, I think that's acceptable. Do you hate other communal activities like barn raising? No, I have... Did you vote for Ron Paul? I did not. I voted for Dennis Kucinich once, though. Didn't everyone? I did not. I voted for Dennis Kucinich once, though. Didn't everyone? Dennis Kucinich's whole campaign was a potluck party. I'd like to mention that I never voted for Dennis Kucinich. I voted for Al Sharpton.

Thank you, Bailiff Jessie. Now, Jenny, you also present some evidence here, right? Yes. Okay, photographic evidence that you sent in of what is it, a party? That is a potluck birthday party that I had in the style of a picnic last year that Ben did not attend because he was globe trotting at the time. Okay. There's a picnic in a park, I presume in the Boston area. What park is it? That's by Jamaica Pond in JP. Beautiful. And you have, it looks like you have some five layer dip there. It looks like you got some pound cake. It looks like you got a quarter of a wheel of brie on a piece of board that must've been very heavy to carry into the park. You had a big bowl of some kind of tabbouleh

salad or something like that. Am I representing this all completely well? That's right, yes. Yeah, I don't see any. Well, I see some boxed crackers, but I don't see a bunch of Entenmann's cookies, right? No, no Entenmann's cookies. What would you say the ratio of store-bought to homemade junk at this party is? Well, none of it was junk. Everything that was store-bought was No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, effort one person put into buying a piece of brie versus the other effort someone put into making some homemade hummus or whatever? It's true. I was feeling very relaxed. Ben, what's wrong with these people? What's wrong with these people? How can they live this way, Ben? I have no problem with that. It seems monstrous. That's a picnic. That's not a meal. No one's going there. How dare you say a picnic is not a meal? A picnic without food is just hanging around a park like a vagrant.

It's not a Ben party because it's not you DJing in the middle of someone's living room and ruining it. Is that correct? No, Ben, you were saying it's not a dinner party. It's a picnic. And that makes a difference to you, Ben. Yeah, this is a little bit different. When you're bringing snack foods, you're going to munch on something. That's fine.

But if you're going to a potluck. That's fine. But if you're going to a potluck dinner, everyone sits around the table and compares what they have brought. And there was a responsibility on everyone's behalf to produce a certain quotient of food so that everyone did the right thing and participated equally. What do you think is the real issue here, Jenny? What do you think Ben's real problem is? Well, I think he likes to control his parties. and I think he finds potlucks uncontrollable. And Ben, what would you want to have happen if I were to find in your favor? What is it you're seeking and damages here?

I mean, it's very simple. I would just like Jenny to admit that she was wrong all along about the potluck dinner and agree to apologize to me and every friend she's ever invited to one. All right. I think I'm ready to make my decision. I'm going to go in chambers. I'll come back in a few minutes and we'll talk it through. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ben, do you genuinely believe that it's socially unjust to host a potluck party? I do. I think they're lame. And I think a lot of people agree with me. Unfortunately, it seems like everyone in the courtroom, they probably all go to potluck

dinners together. So I'm kind of at a loss here. Are you ready for the decision, Ben? I'm not looking forward to it, but I suppose I'm ready. Jenny, how about you? I'm very much ready. Yes. Jenny, how about you? I'm very much ready, yes. We now take this opportunity to join Judge John Hodgman in his chambers in the midst of his highly secret and careful deliberations. Okay, let's see. Potluck minus picnic. Carry the beef brisket divided by pie. I don't mean to interrupt Judge Hodgman. Jesse, what is it?

It's Max Fun Drive time. Oh, I hate Pledge Drive. Everyone hates Pledge Drives. Well, the thing of it is, it's very annoying to me to be interrupted listening to something I enjoy getting for free week after week after week after week and being reminded that it costs money to make it and I need to give some money. Well, there's an easy way to change those bad feelings into good feelings. Oh, do tell. All you have to do is go to MaximumFun.org slash donate. Oh, really? Is that all I have to do? Yeah, well, you have to put in your credit card number and

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Exactly. So it's a customizable mustache. Judge John Hodgman tote bag. Exactly. That's at the $10 a month level at the $35 a month level, which is Judge Judge John Hodgman's post-apocalyptic justice squad. You get what is probably the most amazing thank you gift in the history of independent public media. That is the Nerd Emergency Kit. After the total collapse of human civilization, which as you know

is coming in about 18 months, I will need assistance to help bring justice out to the cursed earth and walk the wastelands, bringing justice to the cannibal gangs and the brunch lords and the baseball furies and all the other assorted postmen and others. And who are the guys from Omega Man? The family. The family. I don't know, but you'll probably have to do something about those guys with the gills behind their ears from Waterworld. Yeah, the gillmen.

Of course, it will be a lawless land. And I am counting on assistance to help me bring law to that horrible, wretched wasteland. And when you pledge $35 a month, you get to join my personal post-apocalyptic justice squad, which includes a complete nerd emergency kit, including an Eaton self-powered AM FM radio with weather alert and a flashlight and solar charges and USB power station. So you can call in the reserves and you can also ride out the zombie blockade with astronaut ice cream, Tang, wet naps, dinosaur band-aids, and more. I have been really excited to see people on Twitter announcing that they have joined my post-apocalyptic justice squad. I will personally retweet anyone who joins it legitimately. And if I have not retweeted you and you have joined it, let me know and I will retweet you yet again because I want to grow this army into a law army that cannot be stopped

even by dog storm. You get this hand crank radio that has a solar panel on it and it has a USB in there so that you can charge up your cell phone or your Nintendo or what have you. There's a credit card multi-tool. There's a USB drive with episodes of all of the MaximumFun.org programs, the Tang, the Wet Naps, dinosaur Band-Aids. And probably most importantly, I know that you wear spectacles, Judge Hodgman. I do. most importantly, I know that you wear spectacles, Judge Hodgman. I do. And I know that in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, you always have to be concerned about the possibility of a

jock grabbing your spectacles and stomping them under his or her boot heel. The Lord Humongous is just out there waiting for us. Now, in a post-apocalyptic world, you're not going to be able to just take those to the optometrist. You're going to need something to be able to repair those eyeglasses right then and right there. That's why the Nerd Emergency Kit includes a white athletic tape. Ain't no Saul Moscott after Armageddon. No, sir. So I think the moral of the story is you can donate at just a wide variety of levels for anyone's ability to do this. There are lots of amazing thank you gifts,

not just the Nerd Emergency Kit and the Eco Bags tote bag, but lots of other stuff. You can check it all out at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The most important thing to me is if you like this show, that you're supporting it. That's why our goals in these pledge drives are never about the amount of money we raise. They're about the number of supporters that we gain.

So as we record this show, we're just about halfway to our goal of 1,200 new supporters of MaximumFun.org. And you could become one of their number. And if any of you ever come up to me in the streets of Brooklyn or at a bookstore or reading in your neighborhood and you say, boy, I really like that. Judge Sean Hodgman, I will say, hey, thank you very much. And then I will say, did you support the pledge drive? And if you say, oh, I forgot, then there will be shame on you. If you say, oh, I forgot, then there will be shame on you. We're going to end the pledge drive with a live streaming show with video and audio from MaxFun World Headquarters on March 13th at 7 p.m. Pacific, 10 p.m. Eastern with cool special guests by telephone and live and in person. It will all be online at MaximumFun.org. I hope you will join us for that. And I hope that you will go not then, but right this very moment

to MaximumFun.org slash donate to support this show. I will, Jesse. I will. Shall we to the courtroom? We shall. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. I have to say that I am sympathetic with the complainant here because I like a Ben party. Ben, I understand where you're coming from. I personally, like you, enjoy a top-down dictatorial party, like a Gaddafi-like party where there's one person in charge and they know how to do everything correctly. And they're providing the music, they're providing the ice, they're providing the food. It is a single person's vision. And I can understand how you feel that a potluck supper is more of a grassroots revolutionary party

that makes dictators like you and me very nervous, because on the one hand, you might have some very nice homemade hors d'oeuvres, right? But on the other hand, here comes the Muslim Brotherhood with the Entenmann's cookies, and you don't like that. I get it. I understand. I like the idea of a party that is run by people who know better than other people. There is no party like a nine-rand party. I get it. But I also know that I went to a Quaker wedding once. Now, if you haven't been to a Quaker wedding, it's very much like any Quaker service, there is no one in charge. The meeting of friends sits around in a circle, and the bride and groom are there, and no one says anything until they're moved by an inner spirit or perhaps an outer force to say something. spirit or perhaps an outer force to say something. Who knows what they say? They make it up as they go along, very much like I'm doing right now then. And this is terrifying to sit in a circle and have people make up their minds for themselves without any direction or order whatsoever.

And what's worse, dinner afterwards was potluck too. I'm looking for a roast beef station. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm looking for a line where there are prepared foods that someone has chosen for me and maybe someone passing around some mini lamb chops. That would be delicious. But instead, I'm looking at casserole dishes of all kinds from all sorts of different people. And a lot of these things were with quinoa in them because they were vegetarians, because they were Quakers. But do you know what I found was that the whole thing was surprisingly moving once I got over my desire for constant authority. And additionally, these Quakers knew how to cook and the food was delicious. And you know what else? There wasn't some idiot in the background DJing bad music. Sorry, Ben.

So the reality is that while the kind of party that you like, Ben, is a good kind of party, there is a long tradition, and perhaps one that you should explore, of the community potluck supper that your friend knows a lot about and that you need to learn about. So, sentencing phase. I sentence you, Ben, you knew this was coming, to host a potluck supper. Now, it can be a Ben potluck supper. You can insist on a certain level of quality, no store-bought items. Everyone has to cook, maybe even you send them recipes. It could be that kind of dictatorial lesson, but you have to let other people in, Ben. You have to put down your dumb iPod DJ booth and sit down at the table with other people as equals for once. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. That's our time for the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I've been bailiff Jesse Thorne.

You can find this show online at MaximumFun.org. Our host is John Hodgman, who is online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com and in bookstores everywhere. The show is produced by Julia Smith and myself and was edited this week by me. The MaxFunDrive ends Sunday, March 13th. So don't waste any time. Go to MaximumFun.org slash donate now. And I thank you.