Judge John Hodgman - Vehicular Hound Inside

Episode Date: November 5, 2014

Should an ailing dog be given free reign when riding in the car?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, vehicular hound inside. Alexa brings the case against her mom, Leslie. Leslie loves her dog, Boo, and takes her everywhere. Alexa says her mom allows Boo to do whatever she wants, like riding in the front seat of the car, often in her mom's lap. She believes this behavior is unsafe both for her mom and the dog. Leslie claims she has Boo's well-being in mind and that her behavior is perfectly fine. Who's right? Who's

wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. These are the simple rules. No barking, no growling. You will not lift your leg to anything in this courtroom. This is not your courtroom. No slobbering, no chewing. You will wear a flea collar. This is not your court. No begging for food, no sniffing of crotches, and you will not drink from my toilet. This is not your courtroom. This is the courtroom of Judge John Hodgman, shared by bailiff Jesse Thorne. Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's currently deeply enmeshed in complex negotiations to star in a remake of Turner and Hooch as Hooch? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman. Thank you, Bailiff Jesse. Alexa and Leslie, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgments in one of yours is favors. I'm just going to pluralize every word now because i don't know what i'm saying can either of you name the piece of culture that i referenced as i entered the courtroom i don't know leslie you are the mom in this situation yes i am you may go first frankly i'm so nervous i don't even remember what you said. Okay. Then that's no.

Okay. That's no. Yes, that's no. Now, Alexa, you are the daughter. Yeah. Do you wish to guess as to the provenance of the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom? I really don't know. It sounds like some kind of courtroom drama.

of courtroom drama. Actually, it sounds like a combination of A Few Good Men and the rules at a local restaurant that we have. I'm sure both A Few Good Men has a cut scene on the DVD extras where they talk about drinking from the toilet. And I'm sure it is possible that the local restaurant, where are you located? I'm in Asheville, North Carolina. Well, I'm not going to say that the local restaurant. Where are you located? I'm in Asheville, North Carolina. Well, I'm not going to say that people in Asheville, North Carolina drink from the toilet in restaurants. I've been there. They merely get high in the toilet in restaurants. Judge Hodgman, have you seen the footage they shot the first week on A Few Good Men when Jack Nicholson's role was played by Benji?

Ha! You know, I was rooting for the littlest hobo. Oh, Jesse, what if they did a few good dogs? Here's a better one, Jesse. Twelve angry dogs. Jesse is a dog person, so I can just say dogs all the time and and he'll just laugh and laugh and the fact of it is you guys it was very very difficult for me to choose a cultural reference involving dogs because there are no quotes about dogs or from movies with dogs that are not utterly maudlin and dumb.

It's all Marley and me saccharine garbage about how great dogs are. I think dogs are fine. The movie that I wanted to quote from was the Harlan Ellison-inspired dystopian science fiction movie, A Boy and His Dog. But there was no quote that I could take from it that was not horribly misogynistic. So that wasn't going to work. And what I was left with was a choice between quoting from John Steinbeck's book, Charlie and Me, talking about traveling with his dog, and then the one that I chose. But I just realized there's one person I forgot to ask. Boo the dog, I know you're in the room because I heard you drinking from your water bowl earlier do you want to guess uh she says wolf so she knows

all right you're a dog whisperer obviously i am jesse i was afraid you gave it away it was from turner and hooch oh my gosh 1989 turner and ho. I mean, that's what it came to, you guys, when I was looking for some quote about dogs that wasn't dumb. Now, you know I am the biggest Tom Hanks fan in the world, and I saw Turner and the Hooch,

which is what it should have been called, Turner and the Hooch, when I worked at the video store and didn't have to pay for anything. So I saw that movie. Well, this is a case about dogs on the move because Alexa is mad at her mom over a dog in a car named boo,

which is another good title for something. And so Alexa, what is your, what's your beef with your mom? Well, so my mom has this habit of when she drives, she often lets Boo sit on her lap in the car. And this concerns me. I think it's probably pretty unsafe for my mom and for the dog and probably for the citizens of Asheville.

Right. Any drivers that are on the road, any other people that are around? I'm kind of worried that, well, I have several concerns. One that, you know, Boo knows how to like open the window. So I'm concerned that Boo might like open the window while she's driving or otherwise distract her or mess with stuff and cause her to get into a wreck, which might hurt her. I also don't want like the dog to get crushed by the airbag if there was an accident and turn into a dog grenade, which is what my brother calls it. Okay. It also sounds as though Boo knows how to clean up the kitchen and make herself a sandwich, if what I'm hearing in the background is correct.

She knows how to get other people to do it for her. All right. And, you know. All right, so Leslie, I think I understand. And you would like me to punish your mom by judging in your favor and prohibiting her from driving with Boo in her lap again? Right. I would like you to rule that the dog has to ride in, ideally, in the backseat of the car. Okay. Leslie? Yes.

I know that Alexa lives in Asheville, North Carolina. Do you as well? No, I live in Charlotte. You live in Charlotte, North Carolina. It's about two hours away from Asheville. I've been to both of these towns in North Carolina and they're both wonderful. Asheville is very wonderful. I think so too. Charlotte, I don't remember all that well. I performed there one night and I went to a Waffle House. It had those things. all that well. I performed there one night and I went to a waffle house. It had those things. All right. And so you're driving around with Boo. What kind of dog is Boo? Well, this is the important thing. Boo is a Lhasa Apso. So she's not that big. She's really pretty small. How much would you say she weighs? Well, she's a little chubby, so she weighs 22

pounds. Okay. So you're driving around with 22 pounds worth of dog on your lap. You think it's fine? Yes. Why do you think Alexa is wrong? I think Alexa is overstating the risk here and actually not weighing the risk versus the benefit of what we do. What possible benefit? There are so many. This is the thing. possible benefit? There are so many. This is the thing. Look, I'm willing to hear about how Alexa is a fraidy cat because there's no problem with you driving around with a dog on your lap. But what is the benefit to lap driving? Can I just say that if I'm a fraidy cat, she made me that way? Why? Because she nurse and she, I spent my entire childhood hearing about various ways I was going to die. Well,

I would like to hear about the ways you're going to die in a moment, but very quickly, Leslie, did you always drive around with a dog in your lap or did you wait until you became an empty nester? And now boo is your whole life. And that's why she's got to sit in your lap every time you drive to the right aid or whatever.

Well, that's close to the truth because, well, not completely because actually boo is 13 years old and so we got her um i guess actually we got her when alexa left so she was the first one and they've always accused me of having um boo as a substitute child um when alexa left so that's what you did. Yeah, I guess I did. Right, of course. Like when your children grow up

and you no longer, it's no longer socially acceptable for you to handle their feces, that's when you get a dog. Yes, that is true. So Alexa, how old are you? I'm 31. And you have brothers and sisters?

I do. How old are they? They are 20 and 22. Okay, so you were the first to leave the house, and then, Leslie, you got Boo. Yes. Who's 13 years old. That's old for a pup, isn't it? See, that's the whole point of it.

She's 13 years old, so that makes her, what, like 91 in human years? And so this is part of the issue. Yeah, you have to admit, Alexa, if your mom had her 91-year-old mother in her care and she was going to drive to the Waffle House, she would obviously ride with her mother in her lap. And I hope when you both get older, that's what you're going to do, Alexa. It's only responsible. Well, by then, maybe the cars will drive themselves. Yeah, well, I think the citizens of Charlotte, North Carolina are praying for that happening soon. Go ahead, Leslie.

So the benefit is that Boo, the Lhasa Apso, doesn't feel sad all the time. Partly. Well, I mean, it's a benefit to me and it's a benefit to her. So the benefit to me is the smallest one, but because I just like to have her there. I like her sitting on my lap and she just sits there very quietly on my left leg and falls asleep. So it's kind of like having a warm cushion on your leg and there's really nothing much that happens. Sometimes she will actually get up and walk to the back seat when she doesn't want to sit on my leg anymore, but it's really no trouble. What kind of vehicle are you driving?

It's a Honda. What year? Oh, what year is this? Let's see. It's very recent, 2012. Okay. So you do have airbags in the car? Yes. So first of all, I have to encourage you to look up your make and model and there's a huge recall going on for all different makes of cars because there's an airbag problem i did it's a huge issue i did i looked it up and also my daughter has a honda so i looked that up too and we're both okay yeah i'm good i really am big into safety believe it or not yeah but but you can appreciate that if something were to happen and that airbag were to deploy while Boo is on your lap, that would be the end of Boo.

Well, that's the thing. If she is on my left leg, then the airbag would not deploy on her. Have you tested this? I don't know how to test the airbags. I think she thinks the airbag is smaller than it is. I just have an image. Your younger siblings, Alexa, are boys or girls? There's one boy and one girl. Right. And I just have an image of the boy who's 21 or 22? He's 20.

Oh, okay. So the dumbest creature on earth. Does he still live at home, Leslie? No, he does not. He's in Nashville as well. Oh, okay. Well, I just had an image of him. Your mom sitting in the car with the dog on her lap and your son out in the front of the car with a big sledgehammer. So that you could conduct a test and you're just counting out. All right, when I get to go, hit the front of the car with the sledgehammer. We'll see what happens with this airbag.

Three, two, one. And then Alexis screams into the garage going no no no no uh no we haven't tried that yet how do you know that your dog is not going to be smashed by the airbag well you would have to actually see the way um the way i sit with my left leg down and it's over to the extreme left, kind of along the line of the door. So she's really in line with the door. And from what I've seen of airbags, they go towards the driver and up. What have you seen of airbags?

Hang on, Alexa, I overrule your objection because there's a line of questioning I'm working on here. So remember it. Okay. Even though this is a fake courtroom, it's still a courtroom. Okay. Let me just understand this. You are contorting your body. No, it's just how I sit.

You are routinely contorting. Yeah, but you're routinely adjusting your body in order to protect the life of your dog from the airbag so that the airbag will not kill your dog should you get into an accident. Do you not appreciate that this kind of preoccupation might be increasing your likelihood of having an accident in the first place? No, no. The thing is, when she sits on my lap, she's so relaxing. I just don't, you know, you know that whole thing about oxytocin you just go right to sleep yeah no well some people some people do but it also gives you this sense of of just relaxation and uh you know i think it's a perfect offset to the tension of driving uh okay it's a bad alex Okay. Alexa, what was your

objection now? I'll allow that. I'm questioning whether the car has side curtain airbags and whether those would go off. Oh, that's a good question. What about the side curtain airbags? That would be a side impact. Which we all know

will never happen. Which is physically impossible. No, no, no. I don't even think side airbags work in a side impact. You know, at that point, you're gone. Everybody's gone. If it hits you on your side, you're gone. Do you know whether or not your car has side airbags? It does.

Okay. Do you know whether your dog also has a death wish? She's 91 years old. She is... What is the life expectancy of a Lhasa Apso that does not routinely sit in the front seat of a car while driving? About now. About now. So she's nearing end life state.

And that's the whole point of this. She's nearing the end of her life it's not the point it's it's it seems to be that the excuse is that this is not going to go on for much longer why deny me and my dog the pleasure right and that that is the most compelling argument you have given me okay so far and one that is one that is meaningful to me as opposed to the fantasy that you have concocted that your airbags are not going to kill your dogs because you've moved your leg into a sweet spot of the Honda. Okay. May I ask, is Alexa's accusation true that Boo the dog is able to roll down the windows? I presume using power windows.

If you had crank windows, that would be amazing. Then we would take her to Hollywood. Yes. Watch out, Hollywood. Here comes the dog that can open hand-cranked car windows. Oh, my God. I got to run out and see this. Move over, George Clooney.

They are power windows. Unbelievably, the dog that can roll down windows with a hand-crank beat Avengers 2, Age of Ultron. It's just such a powerful concept. Well, actually, yes, she can roll down the windows, but we figured out how to stop that. How do you do that? You cover up the window thing. Oh, you do with your hand? With what?

Usually my hand. Oh, OK. my hand oh okay so okay who among you does not does not drive with one hand and drink a cup of coffee or whatever 10 and 2 safety first that's my rule and you never drink coffee or a coke when you're riding in a car no i caffeine is a migraine trigger for me. I would say that I never drink coffee or Coke while holding it in my hand the entire time in order to prevent a dog from getting at a part of the car that I don't want it to touch. You see what I mean? I try to minimize distraction while driving. And I like to have the use of both of my hands at all times, you know, for steering.

And so your accusation, which you, you know, is a bold one to make against the judge of this fake internet court. But I'll, I'll respond and say, no, when I drive, I do not hold a cup of hot coffee in my left hand the entire time that I'm driving. I'll tell you what I do with that hot coffee that might cause a distraction or hurt me or try to roll down the window or fall asleep and then fall down into the footwell and hit the brakes with its 22 pound weight. She's too big for that.

What I do with that point of distraction, madam, is I put it in a restraint called a cup holder. I had to think about it for a second, what it was called. It's called cup holder. And every now and then I reach over and have a sip. Every now and then, I reach over and have a sip. Just as every now and then, if it were my car, I might reach back and pat my dog. Now, Alexa, you had provided a restraint to your mom at some point or another. Is that correct? I did. I bought it for her for a birthday or Christmas or something. I can't remember. How long ago was this? This was within the past year, I think.

What kind of restraint are we talking about here? It was basically like a sort of cloth square that you attach to the seat and the dog sits in the cloth square. So would the dog be restrained or is it just like a doggy bed that is strapped into the back seat or the front seat? I think the one that I got straps to a front seat. But I understand that it was too small for the dog. Is that true, Leslie? Was the strap in doggy bed too small for Boo? Or was it simply like, I got to come up with some excuse to tell my daughter to stop interfering with my life? No, no, it really was too small because she's chubby. She's not a toy dog. It would have been perfect for a toy dog. Do either of you know whether it is legal in the state of North Carolina to drive with an unrestrained dog in the passenger compartment of the car? I have never heard that to be, I've never heard about it one way or the other.

Alexa, did you do any investigation? I did. I looked it up for this and it turns out North Carolina has no laws about that. You can't text while you're driving. Technically sure North Carolina has any laws at all. We're working on getting rid of all of them. sure North Carolina has any laws at all. We're working on getting rid of all of them. Well, in North Carolina, this is just so horrible. If you're over 16, you can put children over 16 can ride in the back of an open pickup truck. And that's not a problem. And I have a problem with that. But she has no problem with the dog riding in her lap.

Right. Well, let me explain to you the logical inconsistency of your position, Leslie. Oh, I understand it's illogical. I understand that. Oh, okay, good. You appreciate that children are not dogs. Yes. And that children who are under the age of 16, who are not fully responsible for the decisions they make,

particularly if they're getting rides, might do things that will endanger their own lives in the back of the truck. That is true. They just bounce out. They might not necessarily cause a disruption to the driver that would endanger others. Well, actually, what happens... I mean, look, if I'm driving behind a pickup truck

and there's a 14-year-old in there and he jumps out, I would definitely be distracted and I might drive into a pole. So there's that. Yes. Well, the thing that happens, this is what people don't realize is that the kids think they can hang on, but all it takes is a bump and they they're light enough that they bounce out. That's why they pick 16 because of a weight limit. before we cast stones out of your glass house at other people. You sound like a terrible person. No, no, no. You're not a terrible person at all.

Believe me, I have a completely open mind about these things, but I take an aggressive line of inquiry with both plaintiff and defendant. Okay. And in this case, you're the defendant. Okay. So what I'm saying to you is,

do you text when you drive? No. Do you is, do you text when you drive? No. Do you drink a cup of coffee when you drive? Yes. And do you drink a cup of coffee when you drive while also having Boo on your lap and preventing her from rolling down the window? No. Okay. If she's in my lap, that's just driving and Boo's in my lap.

That's it. i don't need coffee right so that's the only thing that you will try to manage if boo is on your lap right does if boo is anywhere else in the car will you then have a cup of hot coffee um yes all right why is a restraint not okay for boo? Well, this is where the unique situation about Boo, because she's old, she has a lung disease. It's called COPD. And she also has high blood pressure in her lungs. It's called pulmonary hypertension. And there are a couple of things that make her start wheezing really, really badly.

And anything that gets her excited, whether for good or for bad, can get her started wheezing. And one of the worst things to get her started wheezing is if she strains against a restraint. So, you know, it's just, I hate to see her suffer like that like a leash yeah yeah i had to be careful careful with the leash even okay and you sent as evidence some sound of boo wheezing yes all right and then please go ahead i was just going to say it can be anything so the the evidence i sent was just that i came in the door and boo was happy to see me. So you can imagine how bad it gets if she's upset. All right. I'm going to take a listen to this evidence.

Hang on one second. Hey, sweetie. Hi, sweetie. What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? You're precious. Oh, it's okay. It's okay. all right i believe i just heard that or did that just happen live i honestly didn't know what was going on that was the recording that was the recording oh you know what boo going on. That was the recording. That was the recording. Uh-huh. Oh, you know what?

Boo sounds a little bit like me. Because I don't have COPD, or as I like to call it, COPD. That's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. That's right. Yeah. And that's similar to asthma. And I'm constantly hawking up phlegm, much to the delight of my wife and children. So that was without even a restraint.

Are you suggesting that? Yeah. Are you suggesting that if Boo were restrained at all by the neck or any other kind of restraint in the car, that she would automatically start hacking like that? Yeah. Well, yeah. And that was a mild one. And when she first started doing it, I called the vet and said, I think she's wheezing. And they said, no, it can't be that.

She must have kennel cough. And I said, well, it sounds like wheezing to me. And they said, how do you know that? And I said, because I've heard people wheezing. So I had to take her in. And when they took her in to weigh her, she started doing this. And this time she was upset. And it sort of frightened the vet.

And they put her on oxygen and said, this is really bad. And I said, yeah, it is. So now she's had all these tests. She's had an ultrasound of her heart and she's on two different medicines and they're thinking about a third. So just trying to make her comfortable. triggered by straining against a restraint as opposed to it seems like any sort of stressful or exciting situation such as going to the vet? Are you coming home? Well, it's worse. That will actually start the whole process, even if she's happy. If she happens to jerk her head against the collar or a leash, it gets it started.

Because what I'm trying to evaluate here is I feel very bad for boo, but I, it sounds as though this is a, an overall health problem with an aging dog that could be triggered by anything. Let's say you put accidentally, you know, put on the wrong music in the car. Do you know what I mean?

And like, we've had people on, we've had people in the past who have tried to convince us that it's okay for them to bring their dogs on the bus as service animals because they have some stress disorders. She would do that if you let her. I think what's interesting here is that your mom is actually trying to do the reverse. trying to do the reverse. She's making herself the service animal to boo by saying that boo, boo has a, boo has a health condition and, and, and, and therefore no rules apply to me. She, she, she sues if I pet her. And so even when, um, my, when my other daughter tries to hold her in the car, if she wants to come and sit with me and my daughter tries to hold her and pet her, she will start getting upset. Sure. She's used to driving around in your lap.

That's right. She doesn't have much longer to live. I just want the rest of her days to be good. Overall, out of the number of times you drive a week, what percentage of times do you have Boo sitting on your lap? Well, oh, less than 10% of the time is she in the car because if she can't go inside, I live in a warm climate, so she can't go with me unless the car's going to be cool. So a minority of the time that you're in the car. And those trips are primarily local trips to go to the pet shop or to grooming or to the vets or so on? No, I'll just take her anywhere if it's a good day.

They'll go through the drive-thru. She loves that. To get chicken. She loves that. What does Boo typically order? She likes chicken nuggets. But we gave her hush puppies for the first time the other day, and she went crazy. She loved them.

And does she get to decide what to listen to on the radio? No. Boo likes country Taylor Swift, not pop Taylor Swift. She's so adorable because she thinks she's a person. She's not the only one who thinks she's a person. And I think my, my, she's not the only one who thinks she's a person, but she thinks she's trying to decide where she fits in with Alexa and my other two kids, where in the family she fits. And when she was very young, they would tease her because they, I, they would, I would hold her and they would come up and act like they were going to hug me and it would make her jealous. So she would push them away with her paws and they would laugh.

They would say, she's saying my mommy. So, I mean, she is very attached to me. So why do you want to let, I can, I can absolutely tell. And it's adorable. Alexa, why do you want to hurt your mom? Well, why do you want to hurt your mom? Well, why do you want to break up this beautiful relationship in its twilight? I think I have to cause her a little bit of pain now so that no one dies. Alexa, we, Leslie, you may, you may not want to hear this next part i'm talking to your daughter for a second but you may want to you may want to tune this out or just stare at your dog okay i'll stare at the dog we all know we all know where this is going you heard you heard the recording of of the dog right yes alexa you know i have i have asthma

and so when i hear respiratory distress of that kind, it really upsets me. That's also why when I'm riding in a car, I also don't wear a seatbelt. I can't have a restraint on my lungs. It's also, it's also why it's also when I'm riding in a car or driving in a car, I just hang my head out the window and lull my tongue. And then every now and then pull over and poop by the side of the road. Cause I have asthma, but we know, we know poop by the side of the road because i have asthma but we know we know this is the end of life the end of life for boo the you know i appreciate what you're saying about

how even a a medium-sized fender bender might deploy an airbag that would that would cause boo and then you know your mom too because she's between the airbag and Boo, probably fatal damage to Boo and more damage to your mom because she suddenly got half a dog inside of her. Yes. But the likelihood of Boo, of that happening within the, what would you guess, 12 to 18 months that are left in the life cycle of this dog what do you think is the likelihood that that's going to happen is your mom prone to accidents not necessarily i guess i'm just the times that i have been in car accidents it hasn't been anything that's been my doing like i've been rear-ended while completely still at stoplights twice. And so I know that it's not entirely within her control. Did the airbags deploy ever?

And I've never had an airbag deploy on me. Have you ever had one deploy on you? No, I haven't. My impression is that, and it wouldn't be necessarily triggered by a rear ending because. Right. I don't know. Right. But that's, it's pretty violent, I think.

Yes. I mean, I'm like picturing dog bones, like impaling my mother's chest. So I have a graphic fear. That may be just your thing. That may be just something you need to work out with your therapist. Do you understand what I'm saying? Cause that dog rejected you. It's like, I'm going to have a, I'm just going to picture my, that dog's bones stabbing my mom in the eye.

She likes me. I'm trying to protect her. Has your mom been in any meaningful car accidents? I look, I understand that every time you sit in an automobile, you're, you're, you're courting fate. There's a whole there. Every one of those people out there might accidentally hit you. Even if you are the best driver in the world and you don't have a dog in your lap or a Burmese Python draped around your neck is the way I like to drive around. She has only been, has she had any accidents, meaningful accidents?

Not that were her fault. What were the ones that were not her fault? There was a time I remember where she was turning left through an intersection and we got T-boned and it totaled totaled the car. And that was when I was a kid. And then she she may have had some more minor ones. And that's a that's a big that's a big, that's a big accident. Was anyone hurt? No, I don't believe so.

Just shake it up. Do you have children? No, I I'm training to be a crazy cat lady myself. Oh, all right. Nice. Nice to speak to another toxoplasmotic American. Yes. We talk a lot about the dangers of toxoplasma in our family.

Do you feel safe driving around in your mom's car when she's driving with Boo on her lap? Do you allow that to happen? That really does not happen very much. If I am in the car with her, which is not very frequently, I will try to get Boo to sit with me so that she doesn't do that. go and we all pulled up to a restaurant where we were going to go have lunch together. And I walked over to the car and Boo was sticking her head out the window and my sister was sitting in the passenger seat. And it makes me concerned, you know, not just for my mom and for Boo, but like for my sister

too. Right. Does that, Leslie, how does that make you feel when Alexa says she's concerned for your life and Boo's life and your sister's life? Alexis says she's concerned for your life and booze life and your sister's life. I, well, I'm, I'm glad that she's concerned. Um, but I don't, I'm also glad you did not raise a sociopath. Um, and I, you know, I don't,

the only thing that worries me is if I would put, um, my other daughter at risk. Right. Because that's, she's the one that you love. Well, no, no, I love them all. But I think humans are more important than animals. That doesn't really sound like what you were saying at dinner the other night, mom. Oh, what was she saying at dinner the other night?

Was that after the margaritas? Yeah, that was after why is that not submitted as audio evidence why do i have to hear a dog breathing itself to death and not a great mom talking about how humans aren't as good as animals after a couple of after a couple of margies alexa set the table and and serve the dinner what did your mom say we asked we were all sitting around at dinner the other night and i at least were talking about this a little bit and i asked my mom you know wouldn't you you know wouldn't you rather still be alive to be around your other children rather than dying with Boo? Because that that had been raised as a possibility.

And she didn't seem bothered by that. And she she said, I think she said, yes, of course. Well, I don't know so i think i think she's not i think the thing is that she loves the dog she looks at the dog as her her fourth child and she loves the dog just as much as her other children sure her human children and the dog just as much as her other children. Sure. Her human children. And the dog doesn't get her drunk at dinner and then badger her to change her life. Of course, I'd rather die with that dog in my lap too than have to endure the constant barking of you monsters. I just have to say that if I am overly cautious and worried about things, she made me this way.

All right. You brought this up earlier, and it's clearly on your agenda to get this out of your system. the fear of dog, which is God backwards into you about driver's safety or safety in general? Well, it's really anything. It's partly because she worked, she's, you know, worked at a hospital and in emergency rooms for a large part of her career. So she has a horror story about everything you could possibly do. Like when I had to wait at the bus stop alone when I was in middle school, she told me a story about a girl who had been abducted from her bus stop and how if anybody tried to abduct me, I should throw my book bag down and run or like hide behind a dumpster. That's just preparing you for difficult problems that may arise or if i got a tattoo how i would die of hepatitis and she told me in graphic detail what would happen to you if you got hepatitis yes now this hepatitis thing we were we were talking yesterday over margaritas

maybe i can't remember that part but about um over intravenous drugs we were not using intravenous drugs but we were talking about how a teenager you know really really wanted a tattoo and she thought it wasn't a good tattoo unless she went to the dirtiest tattoo parlor that existed and so then then I said, that's disgusting. And you said, that's a normal teenager to feel that way. And so when do you think I started talking to you about hepatitis? You were telling me about hepatitis when I was in college. And I wasn't saying I wanted to go to the dirtiest tattoo parlor ever. In fact, I don't even think I brought it up. You brought it up. Probably. Did you get it? Did you? So you were talking about some other

teenagers tattoos, some, some, some, some terrible back of the pickup truck teenager that doesn't belong to you. No, no, no. She's a really good little girl, but you know, it's just like, as Alexa said, when you're 16, you're not thinking about, you're not, you're not able to weigh the risks versus the benefits. And how old are you, ma'am? I hate to ask such a pointed question. Oh, it's okay. I'm 59. Right.

So you're not able to risk the benefits. Weigh the risks versus the benefits either, obviously. We all suffer these delusions. No, no, no. It's not like that at all. I mean, I think each person chooses, like, I would never parachute. I would never do that. But some people love it.

And so they take that risk. And, you know, and my, my son likes to climb mountains. And I have, I have resigned myself to the fact that one day he may fall and I just hope he's not hurt badly. Right? It's just a reality I've learned to live with as a nurse. And actually, before I had children, I was working in a pediatric ICU. And I remember going around to the attending physician and saying, you know, gosh, you know, it's just too scary to even think of having children. And he said to me, well, there's one way you can guarantee that they'll never get sick and they'll never get hurt. And I said, what would that be? And he said, they could live here in the ICU, but just think how weird they'd be. I mean, they never took a risk.

Yeah. They would also get pretty sick pretty quickly. Yeah, they probably would. Yeah. But they'd be really weird, you know? And do you live in a populated area? Yes. Do other people drive? Yes. Are they faceless mannequins that have no feelings or are they human beings? No, they are people.

It is true. And actually, this is where it comes down to it. Like if it were just Boo and me in a car accident, it's be like, I'm sorry, but I would never want to hurt anybody else. So that's where the difficulty comes away. You know, what real risk is there? But you have made the weight of risk versus reward versus potential disaster and the weight

is about 22 pounds and in your lap in the car as you move. Versus a 4,000 pound car that the other person is driving. What does that have to do with it? I guess nothing. Just the Honda you're driving, it's not just before I go into

my chambers. It's a sedan or is it a hatchback? It's not a hatchback. It's a sedan. This is an and Alexa, here's the thing. You know, I really think your mom is great. She's, she's a nurse. So I automatically think she's better than you. What do you do for a living? I'm a librarian. Oh, wow. It's a real, you know what? That's a hard one. Gotta go with nurse though. Gotta go with nurse though. You know, I think she's pretty, I think she's pretty great too. Weirdly nurses, weirdly nurses and librarians do have to handle similar amounts of bodily fluids among the general population. But it's true. I'm going to give the edge to nurses and the dog sounds wonderful. And this

is not going to go on for much longer, but if I've ruined your favor and it breaks your mom's heart, how's that going to make you feel? I don't want her heart to be broken, How's that going to make you feel? I don't want her heart to be broken, but I still think it's safer for everybody if the dog is somewhere that is not in her lap. But let me just say, let me ask you, and I want you to answer honestly, Leslie, if this were a court of law, real law, right? Yes. And I was a judge. Yes. You don't break the law, right? Yes. And I was a judge. Yes.

You don't break the law, right? I am really weird about it. I'm scared to death to break a law. Right. Now, whatever I order you to do, I know you're just going to do whatever you're going to do anyway. Because clearly that's the way you live your life. Strangely, I might adhere to whatever you say, even though you'll never know. Let's just say hypothetical. I have observers in every

state. I'll just send my North Carolina team down. I'll just activate my Durham sleeper cell and send them down to Charlotte so they can keep an eye on you. I hope nothing happens in Durham. Okay. But let's just say for the sake of argument, I was a a a judge in the state of north carolina yeah you had you had received a ticket for uh distracted driving yes uh and and i and and at the request of your daughter i ordered you by law to restrain uh to never drive with a boo in the front seat or your lap again and to restrain her using some method or to leave her at home it would would it break your heart yes or no i could live with it i could live with it i hear all I'm hearing is your heartbreak.

She's really good at twisting the knife. But here's the thing. If you decided that she had to be in a, in a restraint seat, we're going to have to get a fan and some kind of like battery operated fan to blow in her face because that's part of it because she can breathe better with the fan no don't you don't you know anything about south korean fan death madam don't tell me that's a true thing it's not it is a true thing but it's not a true thing well and then we've discussed it on the podcast before. Just look up on Google South Korea fan death, and you'll learn about a profoundly interesting and weird superstition that is totally pervasive in South Korea. That if you sleep with a fan in a room where the windows and doors are closed, you will die by morning. Weird.

It is commonly accepted that that will happen. Really? In urban and suburban and rural folklore of South Korea. And so to be a kind nurse, if I had a patient that had to have his doors closed, I would never put a fan in his room. I wouldn't do it if your patient were from South Korea. That's what I mean. If he didn't want that, yeah. That would be scary. I mean, I believe in honoring people's cultures. Even when it's a superstition, that makes no sense.

All right, so. As long as it doesn't hurt them. I think I've heard everything that I need to hear. Alexa, just to be clear, if I find in your favor, you want me to ban Boo from the car altogether or restraint? I don't even want her to be restrained with her leash. Ideally, what I would like is to be able to get my mom as an early Christmas present, one of those soft barriers that you stretch between the two front seats so that the dog can sit freely in the back seat. And then I would get her, I get her a clip on fan if she wanted to,

so the dog can breathe. So Boo can have her breeze and no one will die. Hopefully. Jeez. You guys, did you now, now, now I got to go into chambers and pretend that I'm making up my mind about

something. You guys already solved the problem. That might work. All right. You guys figure out something else to fight about while I go into my mind about something. You guys already solved the problem. That might work. All right. You guys figure out something else to fight about while I go into my chambers and have my drink. Okay, okay. We'll fight about something.

Okay. That's fine. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Alexa, what would you like to fight about? Next time I get to have the margaritas and she gets to be the designated driver it sounds like a good plan we can do that leslie have you ever looked at um have you ever looked at the sheer physical amount of force that your dog would be projected at in your car were you to find yourself in an accident? Yes, I have. Because I've had to look at that in terms of an unrestrained infant. So I know what would happen.

And you understand that it's not just dangerous to your dog to have something untethered in your car of this weight near your face and body, but also to you? Well, that's the thing I'm in denial about. I admit it. I'm in denial about it. Leslie, how do you feel about your chances in the case? I don't think I'm going to win. I think I'm going to lose. Because it's logic versus emotion. And I just don't know. Alexa, how are you feeling? I feel pretty good. I mean, I have the American Humane Association on my side. They say not to drive with your dog in your lap.

You never told me that. I just found out. Well. Also, I'm just a cruel I'm a cruel heartless no no no no so what did that why do they say it's a bad thing um well I mean I think the reasons are kind of obvious well why I think you're making that up I I'm not. Okay, so then what do they say? It's the same reason you have your child wear a seatbelt. Yeah. And also have your child not sit on your lap. That is true.

They say properly restrain, contain, or create your pets inside of your vehicle prior to your trip. Consider purchasing a specially designed pet seatbelt carrier or barrier to avoid irreversible consequences due to distractions or other mishaps. Never allow pets to sit on your lap or remain in the front seat while you drive. Irreversible consequences is what the American Humane Association calls the tragic death of a dog. Yes. What a great euphemism. Or what my brother calls dog grenade. Yes. What a great euphemism. So or what my brother calls dog grenade. Yes. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a minute. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound.

Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now.

Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners, at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans?

Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs. They're Made In, Made In. The Rohan duck. Made In, Made In. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need.

Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. restaurant district in restaurant town?

Just buy it online. This is professional-grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In.

Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th visit made in cookware.com that's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the court guys i'm i'm so excited uh i'm gonna give you my verdict but when i was in chambers i got a call from my agent, my talent agent for acting. Jessie, I just got cast in Turner and Hooch 2, Irreversible Consequences. Congratulations! Is Hooch going to go flying through the window?

Oh, wow, John. This is a game changer for you. Tom Hanks is reprising his role as Turner, who is in mourning because Hooch the Fourth has died. Wow. Because he went flying through a windshield oh no when they were chasing a bad guy and it was an irreversible consequence so are they gonna do this with animation or with a costume or just makeup it's gonna be it's gonna be like uh it's gonna it's gonna be a combination of animation and warhorse style puppetry got Gotcha. Yeah. Well, there'll be a little bit of Lion King style mask work.

Yeah, it's going to be directed by Julie Taymor. Okay, well, I'm in. And I play a judge. I have a small role as a judge who wears a warthog mask for no reason. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. You guys, but I still have a real fake court case to rule on here.

Leslie. Yes. Pour yourself a margarita. I would so like to rule in your favor because the image of you and boo driving around town, just hanging out together, fighting for the control of the, of the,

of the windows. Why? Why? Why you go? Cause I know what you're going to say. While you go and get chicken. Well, you Alexa too bad for you.

You started this. This didn't have to happen. You put this whole thing in motion because you had a dream of your mom pierced to death with her own dog's bones and decided to decide to make it figuratively true. If you couldn't make it literally true, I don't want that to happen. You could have turned the other way.

And in five to 18 months or so, this problem would have resolved itself the natural way. But instead you brought, you filed a suit against your own mom. And the reality is, if this were 1977, not only would you be driving around with a dog in your lap, but that dog would be a Great Dane and you'd be having a beer. Yeah. And there wouldn't be any seatbelts. And we all drove around without seatbelts in 1977, and nobody ever died in a car accident.

Prove it. Prove it. Show me one piece of evidence that anyone ever died in the 70s in a car accident. Hashtag Gamergate. But the reality is that there is incontrovertible and undeniable truth to the fact car by rolling down the window in your lap is a distraction to you, which is not something that this court in good faith can support among drivers. There's a long precedent of telling people to put aside distractions. Driving is one of the most serious jobs you have in life and unfortunately one of the ones that is easiest to not take seriously at all because it seems to be completely second nature. And if there were no other people in North Carolina, if this were truly a Don Johnson and Tiger from a boy and his dog post-apocalyptic situation, where it's just you and Boo in your Honda in the wastelands of Southern North Carolina, I would say get that dog on your lap and go for it.

Okay. And that, by the way, is a good t-shirt. Not that saying, but the, but, but the get to get to work on this.

Everybody. The promotional poster, a, a lobby, a lobby card poster for the new movie, a boy and his dog to a mom and her dog. Post-apocalypse. Colon irreversible consequences.

But the colon is a colon, you guys. Don't spell out colon. That's weird. Yes, yes. We know. I think that if you were driving around 1977 and there were no other humans, then absolutely. Yeah. Even, even if there were no other humans, even if you were driving around at two o'clock in the morning and were unlikely

to hurt another human being because you got distracted one way or another. And you know, I, I don't think you're buzzing around out there at high speeds, obviously, but even if you were, if you were to accidentally hit a pole and those airbags were to deploy that would not only be the end of boo but it could it could cause much more injury to you than if it wasn't there the car if you can't have a child under the age of 45 in the front seat of a car anymore because that airbag is going to snap their neck. I don't see how that's going to be good to have a dog in your lap,

no matter how far close to the door you've positioned your knee uncomfortably. And I was going to say that the, the obvious solution, particularly if you had had, I mean, I think that given Boo's age and bronchial problems and excitability and obvious delusions that she is a human. She does think she is.

That tying her into a restraint would be profoundly uncomfortable for both of you. And I would say that the next best scenario, now that I'm breaking up this cozy relationship and, and your heart at the same time, no matter what you say, thanks to your terrible daughter, the next best solution would have been to put, if it were a hatchback or a station wagon to just create a divider and build a little play area back there. Oh, wouldn't she love that? Yeah. to put, if it were a hatchback or a station wagon, to just create a divider and build a little play area back there. Oh, wouldn't she love that? Yeah. And if you want to get another car,

I'm not going to stop you from doing that. Just get a divider. But I think if there's a divider, and it sounds as though Alexa has already got her eye on a soft divider. If there is technology that would allow you to reliably let her be loose and free in the backseat, but would keep her from walking up and, and fondling you whenever she wants. And you can get a little mini fan so that she can enjoy South Korean fan death back there. You could just,

you could just give over your backseat of the car to her and it would be an adjustment period to be sure she wouldn't be happy about it. Yeah. But, but at least if you give the backseat over to the car to her as her domain, then you would have an excuse for never having to give any of these ungrateful ingrate kids that you raised a ride anywhere. And Alexa, I would say to you, these ungrateful ingrate kids that you raised to ride anywhere ever again. You're right.

And Alexa, I would say to you that, you know, even when you're in the right, you gotta know you come to my courtroom, I'll break a mom's heart. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mom. The truth is, if anything were to happen with Boo

in your lap, and someone were to get hurt, especially if it were someone not you, not a one of us would ever sleep again. Right. That would break my heart. Right. I mean, it's like everyone does, as you absolutely say, you do balance risk and pleasure in life. You balance risk and pleasure in life. But if you're a 16-year-old or an 18-year-old or whatever who wants to get a tattoo, that doesn't mean you have to go to the dirtiest tattoo parlor. There are ways to mitigate risk rationally. And so I have to say, I rule in favor of mean daughter, Alexa. I want Alexa to come down and help me train Boo to be in the back seat.

Well, I think Alexa is just going to come down and put up a barrier. Yeah. Well, no, she's... I'll install your barrier. That'd be nice. I mean, I'd sit in the back seat with the dog and make her feel better. Alexa's all about putting up barriers. That's for sure.

Yeah, she's ready. her feel better alexa's all about putting up barriers that's for sure yeah she's ready can i just say mom that this hurts me more than it hurts you wrong wrong i don't think so i hold you in contempt of court alexa you might think that's true but that is not true and that's what you have to live with boo gets kicked out of the front seat. No more shotgun for Boo. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Leslie, how are you feeling? I'm okay. And I will come. I'll come install the soft barrier and make the backseat a wonderland for Boo. Okay. We can make it nice back there for her. Yes.

And I'll help her adjust to it, too. That would be good. That would really be good. Alexa, Leslie, thanks for taking the time to be on Judge John Hodgman. Okay. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go.

Judge John Hodgman, we have a new... Oh, sorry, Jesse. I was just driving around in chambers on my jazzy with my iguana on my neck. Yeah, fair enough. But you were saying? Oh, I was just going to say, you know, we have a new sponsor on this week's program. We do? Yeah, Bat Brothers Home Renovations of Paola, Kansas.

Bat Brothers Home Reno? Yeah. So they offer two primary products. The first, of course, is bat mitigation services in central Kansas. is bat mitigation services in central Kansas. So if you live in rural Kansas, you've purchased a home in order to save money on rent. That home has a lot of holes in the walls, especially of the bathroom.

Sure. And you're concerned about bats flapping in while you're trying to go potty. Then you can call Bat Brothers Home Renovations. They also, however, for folks who don't live in... Yeah? But before I call them for bat mitigation, Jesse, let me ask you. When they dispose of the bats, do they do it in humane ways? That is to say, by smashing the bats with books?

Yes, of course. They typically recommend that someone keep a large book in the bathroom just in case a bat gets in. Gotcha. Great. What else do they do? Well, they also offer T-shirts. And you can find the Bat Brothers Home Renovations T-shirt in the MaxFun store at MaxFunStore.com alongside the other brand new MaxFun T-shirts, including a new bullseye shirt, a new Maximum Fun shirt with a sweet rocket ship on it, and the Podcast Justice t-shirt. All of those online at maxfunstore.com.

And for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, go back and listen to Judge John Hodgman, episode 54, Deflator House. And then you will want to buy all the t-shirts from these wonderful bat bros. Yeah, I mean, if you listen to that and you don't want this t-shirt, I don't know what to tell you. Finally, a team that I have assembled that will destroy the Property Brothers.

There's also, by the way, this beautiful poster which features Justice, of course, blind, and wielding her scales somewhat weapon-like. Me, I guess I'm not shirtless. It looks like I'm wearing an undershirt there. And you lifting your hammer, your, what's that? Is that what it's called? A hammer?

Judicial? It's called a truth mallet. Into the sky and lightning is coming out of it. It's a pretty impressive poster, also available in maxfundstore.com. That one, of course, is featuring an illustration or painting, truly an oil painting, by the great Joe Padgick of Tucson, Arizona, who did that amazing mural live on stage of me and John Roderick fighting off the hordes of Ragnarok. It was an amazing time. He's an amazing artist. Go check it out.

All the merch is at, what's the link there, Jesse? Maxfundstore.com. Maxfundstore.com. Maxfundstore.com, where we'll also be making available other merchandising things for you to buy as soon as we make them. Nadine has a pizza and garbage t-shirt. Oh, I saw some of those on tour. Jesse, you know, I just got back from a little tour of the American Midwest and Great Lakes regions with our friends Bill Corbett and Kevin Murphy,

but mostly an enormous amount of fantastic Judge John Hodgman listeners. Thank you guys for coming out to all the cities of Chicago and Akron and Madison and Milwaukee and Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. What a great time I had seeing you all. And I'm very grateful. I just want to let the listeners of Judge John Hodgman know that my last touring of this year and for the foreseeable future will be happening in November when I will be in Burlington, Vermont, Lebanon, New Hampshire at the Opera House, the Academy of Music in

Northampton, and then in Hartford, Connecticut. All the dates are on johnhodgman.com slash tour. I have no plans to tour in the spring. I can't because I'm going to be doing some acting work and some one-off performances, and I'll let you know about them, but this will be all of my touring until probably this time next year. So I hope you'll come see me if you live in the American Northeast and New England. I know that Fresh Banana Man will be, I believe, at the Hartford event and maybe others, too. So we'll see. And you also have to spend some time training for the America's Cup, right?

Not really. It just comes naturally. I'm perfect every time. This week's show was produced by Colin Anderson. Our thanks to Colin and edited by Mark McConville. It was titled by Kathleen Keating. Thank you so much, Kathleen. Thanks, Kathleen.

If you want to name a future episode, be sure to like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. You can also join the MaximumFun.org Facebook group, which recently passed its 2,000th member, or the Maximum Fun Reddit group, which is at MaximumFun.reddit.com, which also recently passed 2,000 members, I believe. You can follow us on Twitter. Hodgman is at Hodgman. I am at Jesse Thorne. And Maximum Fun is at MaxFunHQ.

That's enough stuff, right? Everything makes sense. Everything that you just heard, it makes sense, right? You know all the links. You know all the apps. You know all the things. You know all the places. It's been so nices, you know all the things, you know all the places. It's been so nice talking to you again, Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

What's your new signature catchphrase to end a program? It makes me happy when I hear it. Oh, I don't know. Do I have a signature catchphrase? Yeah. Every radio professional has a signature catchphrase. Oh, yeah. Every great radio host has a signature sign-off.

That's what it was. That's what it was. And mine is, court is adjourned. That is all. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.