Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Is Hollywood Dead? With Producer Patrick Caligiuri

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

Who will Kristin Cavallari date next? Lana Del Rey is married to an unlikely match. Real Housewife of Salt Lake City’s Mary is suing the people who ran her finances of her church. Sister Wives is back, and I am begging that none of them buy another plot of undeveloped land. Then I talk to Producer Patrick about Hollywood and its future. Patrick has been a reality show producer for decades and has gone viral for his daily reporting on what has gone down in Hollywood this past year. He gets into big studio layoffs and the death of cable TV. Why has so much production left LA? Why are there no teenage comedies to watch anymore? What can writers and creators do to get their work seen and produced? We get into it all, enjoy!  For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering Juicy Scoop listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code JUICYSCOOP.  Get 20% OFF @honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/JUICY #honeylovepod Stand Up Tickets and info: https://heathermcdonald.net/ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch https://juicyscoopshop.com  Get EXTRA Juicy on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I love shopping with quints, especially as the weather changes. I love their cashmere sweaters. I love their silk blouses. It really is just, I feel like it's just rich lady luxury without the price. Their Mongolian cashmere sweaters are from $50. Are you kidding me? And all quints items are priced 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands. We all love that. That includes beautiful leather jackets. Everyone wants that for the fall. Cotton cardigans, soft denim, and so much more. How are they able to do that? By partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman, which passes the savings on to us. Yay. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices. And of course, premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury, quiet luxury, feel in every

piece. Like I said, I love my cashmere sweaters that I've gotten. I also got a couple new silk blouses, which I love to wear on the show. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials. Go to quince.com slash juicy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash juicy to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince dot com slash juicy. You guys know I love honey, love shapewear. I've been wearing it for a couple years now. It makes such a difference.

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When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr. Sangman's serial data, and serial system. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo woo. Heather McDonald, listen up. Woo woo.

Heather McDonald. Yeah. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Thank you to everybody who came to my shows this weekend. This shirt is actually from a Juicy Scooper in Houston. Made me this cute shirt, but I love meeting you all. And Minneapolis, you are up next. Chris Frangill and I are coming October 18th

to the Fillmore Minneapolis Theater. And again, the meet and greet will be before that. And then we are off to the Vick Theater in Chicago. Chicago means so much to me. It's where my parents had their first date at the Drake Hotel. I love it. I'm so excited and Chris and I will be there October 19th. Everything is at HeatherMcDowell.net and I hope to see you

there. I just had some thoughts. This is a story from last week, but it's about the Christine Cavallari who's like 37, 38, breaking up with her hot Montana boys TikTok sensation, Mark, and he was only 24. And it's been conversation for a while. She shared really honest thoughts on her podcast, like straight from her heart, that he had to live more of a life and that there really was nothing bad that happened,

just that she feels like that's what has to be done and why not do it now than when they get to a place that's bad. TMZ reported he has nothing but love for Kristen. So anyway, I have a different thought. When I first discussed it, I was like, yeah, When I first discussed it, I was like, yeah, you know, that's the case. You're 37, 38. You had kids relatively young. Would you even want to like start a whole new family as a woman in your, you know, you could still get pregnant, you know, in your late 30s and early 40s, but is that something that you would want? Is he ready for that? Do you want to sign up for that? Or was this just like a really fun time where you just had a blast and just got to be with a hot ass guy that treated you nicely? All that is probably true.

But there's this other part of me that's like, no offense to Mark, but he's only 24. I don't know. Is he setting the world on fire? Like does he have some app that's going to make a million, billion dollars? He's still doing the TikTok dances? I mean, I'm just saying, maybe she was like, I'm doing you a favor, but I'm doing myself a favor. And I think no matter what the age is, you can have a great relationship with someone, whether you're a man or a woman, and say like, I just don't know that. I don't know.

I think I could do better. I think I could do better. And this is being a little harsh, but that's what Juicy Scoop is about because I'm just giving my opinion. And she's so attractive and she's, you know, really talented in her fashion and everything, she's not going anywhere. She's really, you know, rel, you know, she's really relatable, all of it. And I just wonder if maybe, you know, maybe she was like, Hey, I would like

to go for someone that's more my age or even older that can really like elevate my lifestyle. And this was really fun. And because to me, I think it would be great. Like if he was my son, I would be like, oh my God, nail Kristin Cavallari down. Stop doing the TikTok dances with your hot friends. Get with her, let her, just like we see women get with a guy and then the guy funnels money into like a business so they can have like a candle store or whatever.

Get her to maybe get you a business going. She's great. You know, I don't know. I don't think as a mom I would ever be like very overly upset if my 20 something sons, which I have, went for someone who was older. I wouldn't be like, but you won't have your own biological child. I don't know. I don't think I'd care. I just think that's just something I was thinking about. I don't want to hear your opinion on it because I think it's kind of a take no one has said. So that's my take on it. And I just had to share it. Okay. Lana Del Rey, people are very surprised. She met this guy. He does tours for people that want to see alligators or something in the Louisiana Swampland. I don't know it. I love Lana Del Rey. He was engaged

to someone for like 12 years and that girl is like, okay, good for you, Lana, I don't really care. And he's really cute, but he's like 48. And he had some other job before, but he was like, I just really love giving these tours about alligators or whatever. And again, like they met and sometimes you're just, sometimes people just are like, I know this is not what people think that they I should be with, but this is what makes me happy.

So good for you. And I do think he'll still love you when you're no longer young and beautiful. I mean, if he's into alligators, you don't need to worry about what you might look when you're 90, girl. Okay. Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

There's some drama going on with our girl, Mary, Mary, the former pastor of her own church, married her step-grandfather. I one time said stepfather. It is the step-grandfather. So her mom's mom had a second husband, so she knew that man as her step grandfather. That grandmother who ran the church died. And then she was supposedly chosen by the grandmother to marry her husband, her step grandfather, and carry on the church. Okay. She never really mentions the church

in this season. There's been a lot that was revealed by Monica, who used to be on the show, and other people about that she really didn't treat her congregation very well. Audio tapes and stuff where she was chewing them out. I went to the church, it looked like it was somewhat abandoned. Now, she and her husband, also her step grandfather, and father father of a child who is like 20, they are suing the people who ran the finances for their church. They're saying they misappropriated funds, they stole whatever, and they are suing for like $6.3 million.

How much money did this church take in? And was she a pastor that then became a businesswoman or was she a businesswoman who then used her business sense to become a pastor? I don't know. It's always been shady. Maybe this is a way to make us think that she and her husband are in fact the victims of a fraudulent church situation. But she is becoming funnier and more likeable on the show. They go on a trip to Milwaukee and this was from Queens of Bravo, Put This Together, where she said, I love Milwaukee. It makes me think about my dad. He was from Milwaukee. He actually used to live one street away from Jeffrey Dahmer. It's stuff like this.

Like they say these weird stuff and then that the producers like highlight it is what makes Salt Lake just kind of weird and campy. And, you know, even though it had dark times because Jen Shaw is doing nine years in prison for fraud. And now she has this, I don't know, this just kind of made me laugh. She goes on to say, every time he would go to work,

he would smell a smell, and he always said, "'Where's that smell coming from?' And a week later, they arrested Jeffrey Dahmer. So I like a juicy scoop history being thrown into Housewives' lives. We love it. So good for her. Speaking of Utah,

Sister Wives is on. There's, I think, four episodes out. I've watched the first three. And, like I said, I'll never stop watching this boring-ass show. Because to me, it's not boring. It's not. And Cody and his three wives, he only has one left, Robin. And she's like, and I'm the idiot that's still here.

I still think that maybe we could come back together. Anyway, what was really kind of interesting in these previous episodes is that Janelle, whose wife number two, oh, first of all, I didn't know that Cody had all three wives, Mary, Janelle, and Christine. They were a foursome, a polygamous foursome, before anybody had a baby, and then they all just started having their babies at the same time. I thought I was in the impression that Mary already had a baby before they took on another wife. No, they

all just had their babies together. So as you know, Christine is often married. I had her on the show. It was a great interview. But Janelle was never legally married in the church or anything. So she has to go. It was just so weird. They have to go to like their old church and ask the elders to give them a release so that they're not tied forever in celestial heaven. I mean, you've been on a reality show for 17 years. You basically say you don't really go to any kind of church anymore, but then you still need to get like this piece of paper from some older person in this church that you don't go to.

It's so strange. But anyway, Janelle says, you know, I still feel like plural marriage works for me. And I wouldn't be opposed to doing it again. I liked having Cody come by and then being gone for three days. I liked I didn't have to deal with his weird allergies and his weird food and his weird energy. But I did still like having a husband and having him come around. But then once Robin came, he just really stopped coming around. And then really the resentment started because she felt not only was he not giving her any attention, but he wasn't bothering to give the kids any

attention with COVID and everything. So he still comes off like a victim. He's like, I'm still so hurt. It's like a knife in my kidney. So he's still really upset. But the thing that really bothered me is that Janelle and her daughter, who is like pregnant or whatever, she's they all have a couple grandkids. She and Christine have a couple grandkids. But Janelle goes, well, we looked at this really interesting land in Montana. And I'm like, wow, we could still build our thing here that I wanted at Coyote Pass, which they never built. I'm like, girl, when? No, I'm not letting you buy this land. Okay. Do you not understand? Are you a contractor? Are you an electrician? This is why it never worked.

You're out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it's 40 acres. But do you know what it takes to build like a running home where you can eat and drink and have showers and watch TV? Do you know how long that would take? These kids that are little are going to be in college by the time you finish building this commune. Goodbye to Coyote Pass.

Get a cute condo. Go on, you know, what is there's a dating site for people of a certain age. It's like, I don't know, silver love or something. Go do that. Go do that. However, I'm watching The Bachelorette and it definitely makes me want to stay married longer. I don't really, I'm not really the golden bachelorette. I'm not really into those guys. So I'm just like, ugh. Anyway, so here we go with that. So it is, it's still giving, it's still a lot of scenes

that you're just watching just very like simple people have like a birthday party with paper plates. And I don't know, there's some weird comforting part to it. There was a big controversy too, because one of their children, Janelle's oldest son, I won't say his name, because he doesn't wanna be public, but people that watch the show know.

He left the TV show a while ago, did not want them to mention his name, so they talk about the bride and groom, and did not want them to mention his name, so they talk about the bride and groom, and did not want the wedding on the show and did not want anyone to film anything. And so that was kind of an interesting thing that we see because then Cody says, oh, we were not, you know, we weren't sat in a good place at the wedding. We were shunned at my own son's wedding because, you know, we weren't sat in a good place at the wedding. We were shunned at my own

son's wedding because, you know, the family's all splitting. And then people that really follow all this stuff had photos from the wedding. And you could see that Cody and Robin were like second or third row. And, you know, I mean, the guy, technically the kid has three moms, right? So he has his own and then he has the one that he really likes, Christine, and then he has the one that's been around from the beginning, Mary, but who knows how they feel about her. And then obviously they all think that Robin kind of took the dad from them. So yeah, it's weird. It's weird. But still fascinating. Still fascinating. And I think it's fascinating because this from the New York Post, these two cute twins said, my twin sister and I want to share a boyfriend and live as a throuple.

So I thought about Chanel where she was like I yeah I guess if you take jealousy out of it jealousy in the sense like I don't care that someone else is sleeping with my husband and that my husband might also love this other woman I don't really care but I still kind of want a guy around but I want this independence without being 100% single mom. So you know, this show has gone on forever. It was an interesting experiment for us to watch polygamy play out on TV on TLC. It wasn't a success for them. But the whole throuple thing, and especially if you really are like sisters, is an interesting

concept for today. That's what is kind of fascinating. The grouple thing, and especially if you really are like sisters, is an interesting concept for today. And that's what is kind of fascinating. Oh, I also thought this was like awful. This is from InTouch. Matt LeBanc has friends, co-stars worried these days. And it's a photo of him and he still looks really cute. He has gray hair.

He's put on a few LBs. The guy is like pushing 60. Like what do you guys want? I'm sorry. He looks like a cute dad that should be going to golf and have a cigar after. Give the guy a break. All right, you guys now have a very, very juicy interview.

I know a lot of people ask what is going on in Hollywood, especially in light of the P Diddy stuff, but also what's going on with studios, streamers, of the P Diddy stuff, but also what's going on with studios, streamers, we're seeing mergers, we're seeing all this stuff. And we get all the inside scoop from a producer that's really tracking it all. So we're going to have that right now. Again, just want to remind you guys, HeatherRinkDoll.net is where you go to buy the tickets. So if you see them in your town, go to HeatherMcDahl.net, get those tickets.

I've got Chicago, Minneapolis, Irvine, New York, DC, and New Jersey all coming up, all at HeatherMcDahl.net. And that's also where you join the Patreon, which everyone loves, and that's where you get the real juicy scoop. Now for Patrick the Producer. I love shopping with Quince, especially as the weather changes.

I love their cashmere sweaters. I love their silk blouses. It really is just, I feel like it's just rich lady luxury without the price. Their Mongolian cashmere sweaters are from $50. Are you kidding me? And all Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We all love that.

That includes beautiful leather jackets. Everyone wants that for the fall. Cotton cardigans, soft denim, and so much more. How are they able to do that? By partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman, which passes the savings on to us, yay, and Quince only works with factories

that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices. And of course, premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury, quiet luxury, feel in every piece. Like I said, I love my cashmere sweaters that I've gotten. I also got a couple new silk blouses, which I love to wear on the show. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials.

Go to quince.com slash juicy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash juicy to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash juicy. You guys, I absolutely love Honeylove Sculptwear. It is a must for me. It makes every outfit look better, but also I love that it feels great. It makes me feel confident and I want you guys to too. The super power short smooth shapes and lifts. We all want it to lift that booty, giving you a flawless

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can do it in a dress. And most importantly, it is comfortable. Treat yourself to the best bras and shapewear on the market and save 20% off at honeylove.com slash juicy. Use our exclusive link to get 20% off honeylove.com slash juicy. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support Juicy Scoop and say, it was our show. Tell them we sent you. Say yes to every adventure with Honey Love. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.

Well, the Juicy Scoop is always about getting the juice. And I came across this creator, but he's also a TV producer and he is giving us real hardcore scoop about what is really going on in Hollywood. And let's get into it. Welcome to Juicy Scoop, Patrick Calaguri. And yes, welcome to Juicy Scoop. Thanks for having me on. My wife is a big fan.

In fact, when I mentioned that I was coming down to LA and I was like, I'm gonna go meet with Heather McDonald on the Juicy Scoop, she's like, wait, who are you again? You're not my husband. Like there's, what is happening? How are you, how am I here? But I'm here and I'm glad. Tell her, where do you live?

I live in San Jose. So, but I lived in LA for 16 years. I worked in the industry, but during the pandemic, we decided to kind of pick up and move up north because things were becoming more remote. And it's only a four hour drive to get down to LA. So, but you know, we love the Redwoods. We love the Bay area. Okay. up north because things were becoming more remote. And it's only a four hour drive to get down to LA. But we love the Redwoods, we love the Bay Area.

We kind of like the vibe up there. And my wife works in tech, so it made more sense to move up there. Okay, cool. So what kind of jobs did you have before you left, before the pandemic? What was your main source of doing work? I worked in unscripted programming. I've been a producer on a lot of reality or unscripted shows. I've worked on The Amazing Race, Big Brother, Naked and Afraid, American Idol, American Ninja Warrior, Bering Sea Gold, Swamp People, I could go on The Quest on Disney+.

Wow, so like really that's like the biggest reality shows ever. A lot of Los Staples. When you say you worked on like Amazing Race, would you travel with them? Mm-hmm. I was a field producer. That was actually one of my first unscripted shows that I worked on.

My first unscripted show was actually Kid Nation. I'm sure you've heard of that one. What was that about? That was like the Lord of the Flies reality show. I just saw a TikTok that I mentioned, I think on my Patreon, that I thought was so interesting. It was a short where they took 10 kids, 10 boys, between 10 and 11, and gave them a home with cameras hidden and said, here's food and everything, and watched how they became. And in a week, they became Lord of the Flies.

The place was trashed. There was a king that was, you know, they made one guy the king and like, it was crazy. And then when they did it with girls, it was right when they started, the girls all started working together. They made chore lists. They started cooking together

and they put all their beds together. But by midweek, they had broken into two different groups Just like real housewives just like real housewives were Andy stands in the middle and there's two groups And I was like wow that is just I just find that stuff fascinating And that's why I think I love reality shows because I always loved like sociology classes and stuff and that really is what? Reality shows are and anyone knows something that's really interesting from the shows that I worked on, talking about male-female dynamics, is when on most reality shows that are competition shows,

when males form an alliance, they'll keep that alliance for months. They could be in an alliance for three months and take it to the end of the show. When women form an alliance, they will turn on each other within a week, almost guaranteed. And you know what?

I say that all, I'm like, it's stuff like that. It's fascinating. It's stuff like that where I'm like, that's why we're not further along. There's little, there's things like that. There's jealousy. There's, I mean, even when I look at like, you know, all of a sudden, I have, you know,

I have such great support for women, but then the haters are the same demographic as the people that love me. Right, interesting. They hate me just as strong. They hate you because they ain't you. Maybe. But it's very, you know, it's very, I'm like, wow, you know, like, and I think about, you know, the generation

that I came from, which was the Mean Girls and stuff, and that that hasn't unfortunately really changed, but they made reality shows out of it that we love to watch, you know? But on the flip side, I'm going to flip the script on it, unfortunately really changed, but they made reality shows out of it that we love to watch, you know? But on the flip side, I'm gonna flip the script on it. On Naked and Afraid,

who's tougher as a survivalist? The women. Interesting, my husband loves that show. Yeah, the men are the first to start bitching about bug bites and being too hot and being uncomfortable. And they also, you know, they always like to show off on the show and survival is about keeping your energy intact. So, you know, they always like to show off on the show and survival is about

keeping your energy intact. So you know, they're chopping down trees and then the men are always the first to tap out. And the women just kind of embrace the suck. And I've noticed as a producer, I was like, women are better survivalists than men. Wow. As a personal observation. Personally me, no. When, when, when they do those shows, like Amazing Race and stuff,

and clearly they're supposed to not ask for your help, ask for directions, whatever, when do you step in in those situations, whether it's Survivor or Alone and Afraid or Amazing Race? Usually a point of danger. If somebody is going to get significantly hurt. We had one instance on the amazing race. I think it was season 15 where a couple needed

to go down a water slide. And it was a big amazing race moment because the female contestant didn't wanna go. And it was one of the, it was at the Atlantis resort in Dubai. Where it's like the death. Yeah, it's like a 70 foot water slide. I it's like the death, yeah, I hate those. It's like a 70 foot, 70 foot water slide. I don't like the ones where you're on a tube.

Right, so this was the straight down one. And literally it was, they were the second to last to being eliminated. So the boyfriend was freaking out. Like we've got to do this, right? And you tried to grab her and tried to force her down the water slide. So that was when, a perfect example, one producer was like, you can't do that, stop right there. So what happened to them? So they, because she wouldn't go down, the other team did it. Yeah, went through and that team got eliminated. They

call it the million dollar water slide. Did they couple stay together? I don't think they're together to be honest. They were newly dating at the time. I remember early on an amazing race There was a couple they're kind of famous because I think they did other things and they were like an LA couple that like I want to say like had tanning salons or beauty something and You know, he was so like yelling at her and and the fighting try to get through. I was like, oh, my God, never in a million years, not for a billion dollars, would I want to do Amazing Race because I even my boys would be like, Oh, my God, dad, mom would be like, Forget it. I don't care. I want to go home.

You're being mean. Like, I could never do it. Well, it's always funny because in the casting rails for that show, it's always couples that are like, you know, our marriages and shambles are separated. But we think like something like this is really going to bring us together doing a race around the world doing these challenges. And you know that the producers are just like, you're perfect. Yes. Come on the show.

And now as producers, you know, now we see, you know, it's like when someone doesn't get asked back to real housewives or whatever, they really shouldn't see it as a compliment to being mentally well. Because if you get asked to come one season and not back, it means because you're too normal and you might still like your husband. I don't know. Like it always seems like the people that are down to earth and get it are just like, Oh, you're not fun to play with. Yeah, we can't make you lose your shit. Sorry, you're going to therapy now? That's not going to work for us. So you worked on all those things and then when, and then you said you moved to Northern

California San Jose area. I was still working in the industry though. So 2020, 2021, business was still going. Business was booming. And I was on a project through 2022. I was doing a survival show for Roku called Fight to Survive. And I was hoping for that show to get picked up a second season.

But then, all of a sudden, work just stopped. And throughout my entire career, and I've worked in television for 20 years, I've maybe gone two months is the longest time ever between projects. I went a year and three months without. And what was your background prior to being hired? Did you go to film school?

What's your story? So my story is I went to Syracuse University. I'm from the East Coast originally. Very good. I went to the Newhouse School, very popular communication school. I moved out to LA. I thought I was gonna be East Coast originally. I went to the Newhouse School, very popular communication school. I moved out to LA. I thought I was gonna be a screenwriter.

I thought I was gonna write for sitcoms, but when I came out in 2005, sitcoms weren't big anymore. But when I was in high school, it was Seidenfeld and Mad About You and Friends. And so I thought that was the big thing. But when I moved out here, Unscripted was in its boom period. Big Brother was coming out, Survivor was huge.

And when I ended up on Race, because I'm a little bit of an adventurous at heart too, I'm like, you can travel the world and do these things and you're not shooting in a soundstage. And all of a sudden I realized I was combining two passions, which is, you know, travel, adventure, and storytelling, which are two of my favorite things. And so that's when I really kind of started going down these discovery and national geographic niche, because it was like, oh, I'm gonna go film in Greenland

for two months, and things that I would love to do on my own, and it became sort of this passion work. And I really kind of of in Unscripted, you kind of get a niche really. Like there's people that work at Bravo and do Bravo shows. There are people that do ghost hunting shows and big foot chasing shows. And I really kind of got this like adventure off the grid

kind of international niche, which I loved. I'm like, if I'm that guy, I'm doing fine. And then survival really kind of started folding into that. So, if it came to like naked people in the jungle, like Patrick's your guy, he'll help you. You mentioned you're married. I am. Where did that, how does that work

if you're in a romantic relationship and you have to take off for months on end? You know, it's, I think sometimes my wife appreciates it to just like get lost for two months. You know, it was always kind of a balancing act. And when I was first married, my wife fortunately doesn't work in entertainment. So that's kind of a blessing and a curse.

Sometimes she understands it, sometimes she doesn't get it. But you know, we've learned to work. She does PR and she actually calls me her biggest liability. She's terrified that I'm, you know, doing these types of shows without like a publicist. She's like, you really gotta be careful. But I, um, but you know, what helped was during the pandemic,

when things started becoming more remote, we ended up starting to do pre-production from home. I was doing it from my living room. I was doing three months at home. I would always go on location anyway for two months at a time. And two months is really like okay, you know, as long as you're doing it just once a year.

And then post-production would take up the remainder of the year after that. And I could do that from home doing, through the pandemic, because they were now doing servers where as long as the server was at the production company, I could log into my laptop and edit from my laptop on Avid from the server that's in Burbank.

Okay, so you're doing that in 21. And then when does this? When does it really stop with the strike or like what happens here? So to just kind of give you a timeline. So I wrapped my production of my show that I was show running, which was called Fight to Survive. And that finished up,

we got the last episodes out the door in March, 2023. And usually also when you've wrapped up one of these productions, you've had your nose to the grindstone for like months, you know, especially you're trying to make decisions through the entire time. You're playing whack-a-mole. That's what you do as a producer. And so you don't mind being like, I just need to like check out for four weeks, you know,

and then we'll slowly get back into it. So that's pretty common, you know, especially amongst producers because you're just, you just need a break. Get burned. And so you get burned out. Otherwise, it's all about mental health, too. So when I started getting back into it, now it's like April. And April and early spring or late spring is the time when most productions are starting up.

But we knew the strikes were coming. So this had been in discussion since earlier part of 2023. We knew they were coming. And I was around for the 07-08 strikes where the WGA went on strike and reality had this like free for all boom. It was like crazy period. Everything kind of went in overdrive. So a lot of us in Unscripted, we were kind of like, we work in conjunction with the Writers Guild. So like we support the writers, we support their causes, you know, we advocate for them. But at the same time, we're like, okay, we're going to pick up the slack when they do striking.

But the strike came and then nothing happened. And we're like, okay, that's odd. Oh, maybe it's because the actors are about to strike and they're waiting to see what happens here. The actors go on strike. Still, nothing happened. And everybody started calling their agents and there's just not work to be around. But what's interesting is in our industry,

everybody first started internalizing it. They start looking inward. They start saying, well, did I, did I, why am I not getting work? Did I piss off somebody? Is there a reputation that I have around town? Is somebody bad mouthing me? So that's so true. A lot of us started like,

and you don't want to ever admit that you're out of work because that's also, you know, you don't want to damage your brand and be like undesirable. And that's kind of one of those things in, especially in Hollywood, where it's like, oh, you're not working. Something's wrong with you. So nobody talks about it. And then it wasn't until I started picking up the phone

and talking to other executive producers, people that were my mentors, people who brought me into the industry. And it started sounding like, wait, you're not working? Wait, you're the person that's always working. You're the person that's always giving me jobs. And then I'm hearing from executives, again, that have been my bosses when I was a production assistant

or an AP. And they're saying, yeah, I'm doing DoorDash right now. I'm selling my grandmother's inherited jewelry so I can make ends meet. I'm going to have to go into my kids' college funds next because I cannot work. And my husband also works in the industry, especially people that were married where both people worked in the industry. They started getting hurt really bad. And then there's a lot of optimism in our industry too, where it's like, oh,

well, it's going to be the top of 24. The industry is just trying to reset itself after the strikes and the top of 24 comes. And then people start talking about, well, it's going to be the top of 24. You know, it's just the industry is just trying to reset itself after the strikes and the top of 24 comes. And then people start talking about, well, it survived to 25. But the more I started kind of looking into it, I started realizing the patterns and I'm like, this is not adding up. This isn't just like a fluke thing that's happening to our industry. There's a major change going on. And you're not hearing anything from the studios or they're being completely tight lipped. But it's starting to dawn on us more and more that they don't seem to know

when this is gonna rebound either. And I think it all kind of came to a head one day is because while you're going through this for not working for like a year and internalizing it and thinking of it because we got into this industry because we love it. We love what we do. We're kind of blessed in that regard. But you kind of start going through the grieving process and with that you get depression, you get angry, and I was kind

of going through this process and I didn't realize I was actually kind of grieving my career because you strive. And I started out as a production assistant and worked my way up all the way to executive producer. So I've done every job and you know, you really have to claw your way to get through this industry. You're facing so many headwinds. So like to get to the top and then finally there's like,

it plateaus was kind of a little hit to the ego, I would say. But eventually, it all kind of came to a head. I sat in my car. I was going to go hiking. I was going to try to like I was trying to do more exercise and get those endorphins going to feel happy again. And it started downpouring. And I was just like, fuck it. And I whipped my phone out and I just kind of ranted about everything that was going on.

I was like, I have not been in, I've been out of work. This industry has slowed down. Streaming is not paying anybody. The industry is not bouncing back. And I hit send and that. And where did you originally post that? I originally posted it on TikTok. Oh, okay.

And I had a little bit of a following on TikTok because I talked about unscripted TV and like how you make it. Oh, okay. And kind of behind the scenes stuff. So I had a little bit of a following there. But once I posted that, it just went viral within our industry.

All of a sudden I'm getting messages from friends in Denver and they're like, why are you on our cinema board in Denver? And everybody started realizing, and that was the connection that I think a lot of the industry made was, it's not just me. It's not, you know, I'm out of work too. And everybody started being more vocal about it. And now we're in a stage where I think everybody's kind of realizing the state of the industry. I was at the Radford lot yesterday and it was a ghost town. You can see tumbleweeds going through the place. And I used to work on the Radford lot because that's where the Big Brother house. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, it's like Pee-wee's big adventure. You know, there's people in costumes and there's mirrors being rolled out. Nothing. There was not a single soul in any of the studio. And it was just eerie. So let's get into what is happening. What is your theories and proof or whatever that you've been sharing? What is happening? So every now and then,

every industry has a transition point. And we've been lucky, if you kind of look at television as a whole, nothing's really changed in the last 70 years. But as Netflix's popularity grew, all the other networks are looking at Netflix and saying why aren't our stock why isn't our stock doing what Netflix is doing? So they're starting to model Netflix's model. Again, not really kind of looking into what are the future implications of this or the

consequences of this. It's just Netflix is succeeding and we're failing. And then the pandemic came and all of a sudden people are sitting down and they're watching their televisions and everything goes into hyperdrive. Now everything has to happen. So Peacock, Disney+, everything is forced into streaming. And there came this boom period with it. Investors were like, this is the new future. So money was pouring in. So there was just production everywhere. That's like every soundstage was rented out.

And it was this complete boom period. Then the pandemic ended. And then I think that's when people started realizing that you can't keep a revenue stream going on just a subscriber based system. You need advertising revenue. It's not going to sustain because eventually you run out of viewers or you run out of people that keep subscribing. You eventually plan out. It's like an MLM. Exactly. Everyone's already bought in. Right. So, so, you know, and you noticed noticed it to first Netflix was what 499 a month when it first started and then it's now

1499 now it's $22 and that's a reason because they were losing money and then you have on top of it There's so many kind of different wheels like playing into this. Yeah, so then you have cable which is Everybody's cord cutting at the same time. I don't need cable when I could watch Netflix and streaming. Why do I want to subscribe to this? So cable is becoming this albatross around the traditional networks next. In fact, you've probably seen Warner Brothers Discovery just rode off their cable channels as a $9 billion loss. Yeah, I think I saw your video about that. Yeah. And Paramount did rode off their cable channels as a $9 billion loss. I think I saw your video about that. And Paramount did it with their cable channels as a $6 billion loss.

So cable is holding these other companies back. So is it like cable is dead? Cable is dead. Cable is dead. We had the wake. You know, you're throwing flowers in. They're not investing in cable anymore. There's no new shows being put on cable anymore.

Anything that's kind of on TV is either a former success, has been on the air for multiple decades, or it's something that's so cheaply easy to produce. Like there's now shows that are just police body cam footage because that's public domain and all you need to do is do- My older son just loves that. Right. But it's also competing with YouTube too.

I know, but he's just like, I love body cam footage. I'm like, really? I'm like, that's just so interesting that that, you know, what someone gets hooked into. I'll watch back cracking videos for like 20 minutes on TikTok or Instagram. I just can't stop watching it. And that's another perfect example is viewership.

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Hi, Bald. It's me, Trixie Mattel, skinny legend and board certified HVAC sommelier. And me, Katya Zamalichkova, the sweatiest creature in showbiz, reminding you to subscribe to the Bald and the Beautiful podcast. Listen as we cover topics as varied as proper bidet usage, celebrity impression tutorials, and a television show I recently watched that I'll base my entire personality on for six weeks. As well as creative pest control, tasty limeade recipes, and fun sex act trends. We also chat about boobs and movies and wigs and stuff, which is obviously the public service part of the podcast. So get ready for screaming, cackling, and some occasional educational moments

as two massively unqualified queens talk about what it's like to be the epitome of fabulous. Go subscribe to The Bald and the Beautiful with Trixie Mattel and Katya Zomolachkova on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. The other thing, and I saw you saying something about this, but I'll tell you, I've said it.

Like, we've switched our TV situation a few times, you know? And sometimes when I'm just like in a hotel room, I'm like, oh, old fashioned TV. Like I turn it on and I just I read, oh, these are where the channels are. And I, I watch the commercial. I don't know, there's something like comforting. Like I, I feel that with all of this, it takes so many steps. When you look at like the Kardashians and I'm, you know,

of course they're super successful, but the buzz around them, that the conversation is not what it was. When they were on E and there'd be a marathon and you turn it on on a Saturday in 2011 and you just clean your house and you just hear their voices and you just whatever. Now it's like, all right, now let me turn on the TV. Now let me go to the Hulu thing. Now let me go to search. Now let me start writing KAR. It's just like then or then when you want to go back to it, if you, if somebody else like in your family went to it, they're like, oh, hey, Mackenzie,

let me show you what's something new. I'm like, no, it's Heather. K-A, like, it's just like, it's just. Right, it's appointment viewing. Like, you think that it's like more helpful, but it actually is like a pain in the ass. And then I'm like, you know what? I guess I'll just look on my phone.

Right. And I'm like, I gotta pay hundreds of dollars a month for all these things that I'm actually not even watching That much TV anymore and scrolling has become the new channel surfing. Yeah We don't just like you said we don't casually watch TV anymore We you know, you don't turn it on and I wonder what's going on if I'm gonna say I wonder what I got nothing to do I just instantly my phone's right here and then I just start scrolling and that wonder what's going on. If I'm gonna say, I wonder what I got nothing to do, I just instantly my phone's right here and then I just start scrolling. And that's what 170 million Americans are on TikTok.

That's half the population. And probably even more so on Instagram. And so that is directly competing with television and film. So we're talking about these changes, these industry changes. We've seen silent films go to sound. We've seen television destroy radio. Right.

And then. Right, because radio used to be like people talking and acting and doing stories. Right, you know, they used to like make those sound effects and families used to gather around the radio. I know, and then here we are with podcasts, right? But now I feel like podcasts, everyone has to put it on YouTube too.

And I mean, I started doing that a few years ago and I like it, but the whole point of doing a podcast was like, oh, isn't this great? You can be ugly. And just to have a podcast. And now it's like, no, you gotta do the video element. And it's like, okay, so now you have that other thing that you can watch, which is great.

It's cool. I appreciate the people that like watching this, as well as listening. But yeah, that's so interesting. So like, right, so you were saying the orders of things. So then we took over radio. Now we're at television to internet is really the next transition.

And with independent creators. So you've got to remember also just going back to Unscripted, Unscripted is getting hurt the most out of all of this. Reality. Reality. I call it Unscripted because it was a little bit more of a blanket term. Okay. Yeah. Reality has this like connotations

that you think of reality, immediately people think of Housewives shows. Right. But like, I'm like reality is technically all those Discovery shows, the deadliest catch, that's reality too. And I think, so I like to say unscripted because that's just sort of the broad umbrella for all of it.

And because that was a more economical version of TV, people were now looking- Because it wasn't union, it wasn't union actors. And the producers were producers, not writers guild. Right, exactly. And that actually was part of the 07-08 strike where the red line that studios weren't going to cross, they wanted to make unscripted producers be considered part of the WGA. Studios were like, no go.

Right. That's not going to happen. But quintessentially, yes, we are writers. We are content creators. We're putting the story together in a much harder fashion because we don't get to write what we want. We have to like take the pieces. We're building Lego sets of story.

And so, gee, I kind of lost my train of thought. No, no, you were saying how things change and you said how scripted is the one that's unscripted is doing the worst. Right, so as people started going towards social media, this, it's even cheaper. You know, it's it's you have content creators that are drawing more of an audience. I mean, you have people who are doing makeup tutorials that are getting a better audience than any unscripted show on cable right now. And that's the truth of the matter. And look at their production value of these things

versus an unscripted show is still 200, 300K an episode. Right. And that's cheap or was cheap. I don't know what's cheap anymore, as opposed to somebody who's in their own bedroom putting up a video that's two minutes long, three minutes long. I also just think there's something when you're just used to a certain thing. It's like when we were so used to hearing the live audience laughing in a sitcom, you

know, from like, you know, I love Lucy to, you know, probably it started to kind of go away at what, like 2004? Like how I met Your Mother kind of. Yeah, it started. Right. And then it was like, oh my god, you know, this single camera is so much cooler, whether it was 30 Rock or The Office. The Office, yeah, like, oh my gosh, this is, you know, which was obviously a mockery of

like a reality show. But and so then it was like, oh, you know, like when I was pitching shows, it was like, well, definitely you don't want, you know, that cornball laughing, ha ha ha, and so then it was like, oh, when I was pitching shows, it was like, well, definitely you don't want that cornball laughing, ha ha ha, and walking in, audience clapping like the fawn shows up. And, but then when you'd pitch it, someone would say, but they actually are buying Three Camera, which is the live audience.

So adjust your pitch to that, you know? They want that back. And I was always like, hey, whatever, I'll do whatever. I'll be cornball mom, I'll do that, you know? They want that back. And I was always like, hey, whatever, I'll do whatever. I'll be cornball mom. I'll do whatever, you know? But I wasn't watching those shows anymore. Like, I wasn't enjoying the live sitcom situation anymore. And where is that?

Where is the live, what is going on with live sitcom and studio audience stuff? It's interesting because you do see TV go in cycles. Yeah. You see game shows become popular, then they become unpopular, then they become popular back. There's some economists who think that's actually attributes to the way the economy is going,

that when times are bad and we're in a recession or a depression, that more fantasy shows, like you'll see Game of Thrones really became popular in like 2008 you know and so you actually see the cycle where there's more like fantasy shows But then like when the economy is good you get more realistic shows That's when true crime starts coming back and like people want to know about more real things that are happening It's so it's an interesting but you have these cycles and even reality, I think it's a genre, mostly that's 20 years old at this point.

It's running its course, which is also probably a reason why it's kind of going out the way. But what you are gonna see, so getting to your point about live shows, live is what's gonna be keeping broadcast networks still keep their heart ticking, because right now sports, award shows, things that you can tune into that you can't really put off

to another time are what people are going to be using those networks for. So if there is like room for sitcoms to be back, I would see them being actually live performed. Like, do you remember when they did like Grease Live? And they did like, they tried to do Rent Live. They did a bunch of those. Yeah, they did a bunch of, actually one of my-

And why did those just stop then? Were they not that- I think it was they were very expensive to produce. In fact, believe it or not, Grease Live was produced by my best friend from kindergarten. He actually became a Broadway producer and director. And he actually was the producer of Grease Live. But like, again, that was a show that took up five or six sound stages on the Warner

Brothers lot, took up most of the back lot to produce that was just such an expensive endeavor. And right now, a lot of these studios, especially studios that have cable channels attached to them, because you can't just turn cable off, you still have to like feed it into the system. They're hurting economically, which is why so much is not being produced or greenlit right now. I remember there'd be, once in a while,

there'd be a sitcom that'd be like, we're going to do this live thing. And I don't really remember if those were hits or not. I can't remember even when they brought the Friends reunion cast. I don't even know how well that did. But I don't think they've done a sitcom live, but I can see it being live. Well, I love that all this exists because when I was coming up, it definitely felt like

a gatekeeper kind of a thing. I remember just joining SAG. You couldn't get an agent unless you were in joining SAG, you couldn't get an agent unless you were in SAG, but you couldn't get in SAG without having work that an agent would have to get you. Right, it's the catch-22. Yeah, and yeah, and that's why you, but you could pay people. You could pay people that worked at SAG to make a fake thing or whatever. There was a, there thing. And you could pay someone $300, and now I'm on a Bud Light commercial,

and now I'm finally in SAG, but I still have to pay the $1,100 to get into SAG. But then I could put SAG on my resume, and then I could get the agent, and then I had to get the agent to care enough to send me out. And after about a year and a half, just like a boyfriend, they're kind of over you.

Like if you haven't made anything. And then it was always just making me always feeling like you're not popular, nobody likes you, you're not in the cool group of the alternative comics or whatever for my thing. And so, I mean, I just loved being a writer and being able to have more say and not just walking in and having it be up to some, you know, bitchy girl or guy.

That's just like, and so I mean, I love that people have more of an opportunity to make money in this business. And so my question is, where, so it doesn't seem like a lot of the gatekeepers are out of work. So what are they doing all day? Like what are all the agents doing? What are all the studio people doing? What are those people doing? I think they're all checking off their calendars of how many days they have left to be perfectly honest. I mean

it's not to say that there have been massive layoffs that have been happening. Paramount got rid of 25% of its workforce this summer. You're seeing massive layoffs. A lot of especially unscripted departments at like Fox, at NBC Universal, they're kind of cleaning house. So I think right now, a lot of people are very nervous and it doesn't matter what side you're on, on the production side or if you're on the executive side.

And I mean, it's also very sad because for 20 years, you know, it's been, these other states have been, you know, so lucrative to bring your production there and luring people over. It was first Florida, then it was Georgia, then it was, you know, everybody but California. And I remember when Arnold Schwarzenegger was running, that was part of the reason people were saying you should vote for him because he's an actor, he's going to keep the work here. I don't think that, I don't remember

what was going on during that time, but it didn't seem like it made much of a dent in keeping it or making it easy or whatever. And so now where are we with California and trying to keep some of the production here? I mean, it's what's happening in our industry. And it's interesting because we know the story about the big banks and their failure. We know the story about America's auto industry and its failure. This is just kind of like the silent industry because nothing is being reported on it. But what's happening to our industry is the same thing that kind of happened to the auto industry. It is cheaper to manufacture the product abroad. And just like many corporations, they now have their call centers, you know, in India or on the other side of the planet

where you can pay workers for less. So we're starting to see a lot of productions actually leave the United States. American programming being filmed in places like Ireland. So when I, so about a year and a half, wait, yeah, it was summer of 2022, I think, because there's still like a COVID thing. I got offered to do, name that too, in Ireland.

And I thought literally until about a week before I went, I thought I was doing the Irish version of it. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then they're like, no, they're just filming it in Ireland. I'm like, why? Oh, because their COVID thing was easier is what they originally said.

No, Fox is building a whole studio in Ireland and they have a negotiation with the Irish government to perform more shows there and to be actually building their shows there. And- I just wanna make it very clear. I did my 23 and Me. I am 99%, 100% Irish.

Oh really? Yes, and I know that they also are saying that you can get your dual citizenship for if your grandparent or your great grandparent came from Ireland, which one of mine did. Okay. And like good for Ireland, like I, you know, it is my motherland, but my grandmother did come

from there. But it's disheartening because when we went, you know, I'm like, wow, like I'm excited. I mean, it was a quick turnaround. But I went to Ireland and I, you know, got a first class seat and got there and I saw, here I see, you know, Teddy Mellingcamp and Cynthia Bailey and some girls I know that are doing the show and Tisha Campbell, I have dinner with Tisha Campbell. We all know each other.

Yeah. We're all laughing. I'm like, why are we not at Hollywood Center Studio? Right. Like what, why? Like I go, so it still was less expensive to fly us all out of their first class and put us up in hotels.

And it made me sad. And also fly the department heads because I actually named that tune, a friend of mine is one of the producers on that. And he goes to Ireland. Well, bring me back, I had a great time. And I did win $33,000 for my charity, which is Hillside. But anyway, yeah, I mean, I'm happy for anybody that's working.

Happy that Ireland is lovely, but it's just like disheartening. Well, you know what's so funny is like you mentioned going to Ireland, my father was born in Italy and came to the US with my grandparents, you know, for a better life. And I'm now applying for my Italian citizenship because all I can think of is like, wow,

I would really love that villa with an olive garden and eating charcuterie every day. And what am I doing wrong? So, you know, I would really love that villa with an olive garden and eating charcuterie every day. And what am I doing wrong? So I don't know if my grandfather would be so disappointed to be like, all I want to do is move back. I don't think so. I mean, I think that we can make it a beautiful international world of entertainment, but

we shouldn't be losing so much here. You know what I mean? Like I think it's lovely that because of Netflix, like I never grew up watching any foreign, anything. And that's the other part that my friend said was like, you know, there's, we always think as America that we are it, you know, we are the center. But there's all these other countries that are putting out wonderful content

that they can do the subtitles or if you don't want the subtitles Have them speaking. You don't want to read it. Yeah, and of course Yeah, Korea is like a lot of reality shows start there a lot of I mean squid games Look at the success of that that like they are always bought productions from other countries like Australia, whatever So that part is part is going on. So what do you think, like what is some advice to somebody that's struggling right now and waiting and pitching? I mean, do you just not bother?

What do you do? Well, I mean, here's the thing. We're all creatives and I'm just as much in this as anybody else has, you know, and I'm trying to be real with the situation. But you kind of have to look at, I'm an optimist and you look at the bright side, which is whenever there's these periods of disruption, whenever there's chaos, that's when the opportunity arises. And I actually think that also as creatives, as filmmakers,

this is an opportunity for indie to really start coming back. Cause I think what you're seeing coming out of these large studios is just material that nobody wants to watch. Nobody wants to see another superhero movie. Nobody wants to see the third sequel of... No, I just said, I literally was like, there's nothing to watch. I have all the cable things, all the things. And then when I watched something, like The Perfect Couple, it wasn't good.

I was like, where's my juicy thing? It's just like, and because they don't make any movies that are just about a woman killing her husband, but in a really good way, like where are the fatal attractions? Where are those things? They've done some remakes, but then they'll do a remake of Fatal Attraction or Presumed Innocent and they'll milk it out for eight episodes. And I'm like, I just want to see a really good movie that I go to on a rainy day in LA at two in the afternoon. And it's excellent acting.

And I feel like I'm in New York for that moment or I leave the theater and I feel like I'm still in the movie. Like that, I don't know that will that come back? I mean, I love the fancy movie theaters. And that's the thing is like, us creatives, we wanna make that stuff. We're not allowed to.

Like, we are pitching stuff of our own material all the time. I've seen some of the greatest programming. I've read some of the greatest scripts, and they won't see the light of day because the people that are the traditional gatekeepers, they want that sure bet. They're not taking any swings on anything.

They're risk averse. And they're going, and it's not people that are former people in the entertainment industry running these companies. They're people that are coming from the tech industry. They're lawyers. They're people that are not creatives. And I think they were never great before.

So now they really, I thought development people were always like, not that great with their notes. So now it's even worse. Exactly. And an algorithm is not gonna tell you what an audience wants. If they had figured out the system of what audiences want, there would never be a flop.

You wouldn't have Mad Max Furiosa. But this idea that, oh, we could guarantee a sure hit just by regurgitating the same stuff over and over, you're serving the same meal to your audience. And people are just going to get tired of it. People want to see Newt. People want to be taken on journeys. So where I see sort of the fertile ground is this chance for all these creatives, the

ones that are out of work, the storytellers, the true storytellers, being able to start making their own content. And you're still gonna have distributors like Netflix and Disney Plus, but you're gonna start getting their attention when we're making the better content independently. Do you feel that, you know, in the last like five years, it was, okay, here's my bit pitch,

and it's about a family in the South and whatever, surrounded around this really funny comedian or whatever. And, you know, cause this did happen to my friend of mine. And it was about her family, you know? And then they were like, well, can the sister-in-law not be white, like the rest of the family? Okay.

But that's sort of that, okay, now I kind of have to change. We would be addressing that. Right. That she is not, you know, so, but we can't. Okay, so that changes that. Okay, so now we need to make it this and checking all the boxes, which is fine. Like I, but you know, I think what happened was

you checked all the boxes and you lost sometimes shows that were maybe very similar characters because you believed that they were really friends. You believe that they're a real family. They really would hang out together. They acted all the same, like friends, like Seinfeld, and they had a chemistry and it was, and those things worked just like, you know, blackish worked, or just like whatever worked. And so I feel like we went in that direction and there were a lot of,

because that was the direction that they were told to go. And now I feel like, now it's just like, okay, let's just go with the talent. Or like someone comes around and it's like, oh, well it's about a 50 year old woman, can we make her 35? Okay, but then that kind of changes the whole, like do you see that going anywhere where they're just like, give me the thing

that's fucking good and talented and has some chemistry. Do you think we're heading in that direction again? I hope so, but I think that's gonna be more independent. And a perfect example is yes, these studios now have mandates. And there's something, and a perfect example is yes, these studios now have mandates. And a perfect example of that is I had a show that I had developed and I've been developing it

for over seven years and I finally got it to a big network last year. And I was like, this is it. Was this an unscripted thing? This is an unscripted show. And it went to a major network and it sat at that network for two months, which was a good sign.

They were sitting in it, they were running up the board and the feedback we were getting is, this is amazing, this is one of the best formats we've seen in like such a long time. And we were getting ready and I was teamed up with a production company and we were all kind of greased in our paws, we're like, oh my gosh, this is it. I'm like, finally, you know,

finally getting the show out the door. And call came back that, sorry, it went all the way up the chain, but the mandate is we cannot buy any programming unless it has a celebrity or intellectual property attached. So we have to say that. Oh. And explain that to the people about intellectual property. So IP or intellectual property is a brand recognition, whether that's a famous name, whether that's a brand. Barbie is a perfect example of IP.

A book, a former movie, you know, Marvel Transformers. And the reason why that's important because that intellectual property has been proven to have recognition, a fan base, interest. Yeah, it's a marketing tactic. It's purely a marketing tactic of, I recognize this, and so therefore I'm going to draw an audience. Again, it's being risk averse. I can't take a risk with something that's unknown.

It's a safer bet to attach something like a celebrity, a name, or a product that is going to be recognizable by the audience. Yeah. I mean, so what would you say to young people that are like thought that, you know, television would be their dream or what's your advice to anybody that is in this industry or thinking about this of where they should be putting their like energy in? Here's the thing. It's not over. You got to remember when typewriters went to word processor, that didn't change storytelling. That just changed the medium of how it can cross.

But what about AI storytelling? Because I definitely think I've seen some shitty scripts that I was like, I think this is AI. I think they put in romantic comedy, blah, blah, blah. You know, another thing I think that's kind of hurt TV and comedy is I don't know if you've seen this on TikTok. I love it. I think it's brilliant. It's something I've been doing like forever and people are doing it on so many levels. But you know, like comedians have always made fun of like, you know, why does a why does a detective always act like this in a thing? I would always be like, why is it always that the detective doesn't want the FBI help? Like if I need to solve a crime, I want the FBI help.

It's like, get out of my town. And so making fun of those things. So I think people have like, there's so many like TikTok creators and Delaney, you know who Delaney is? This girl that actor Delaney that she looks like a, she looks like Demi Moore, a young Demi Moore. Yeah. And she does all this like insufferable, independent, you know, independent movie with the lead

who likes the rain and she's like, on a Saturday, it's a rainy day. And like kind of mocking the movies that we, the formula that we have agreed to watch. I used to call them dry bar movies because when I got my hair blown out, it was always all the dating. the romantic comedies Yeah, the bridesmaids and you would see that they were all written by two guys And it was and it would affect you like well if I walk weekly into a party and look like this Won't the guy see me from across the room and be like that's the one I want which is so far from the truth Like I am raising, you know boys. I live with the husband now I know that men are like no you have to be like, that's the one I want, which is so far from the truth. Like I am raising, you know, boys, I live with a husband.

Now I know that men are like, no, you have to be like, hi, like, I like you, you know, like you have to be real fucking obvious. Like it's not gonna be some guy being like, I don't want you, you big, beautiful, like outgoing blonde. I want that little mousy thing that's like picking her nose with glasses. But I think in mocking that,

it has made us, now that formula won't work anymore because we've mocked it and we've cracked it open and we've talked about how only men have written it. And so that's a whole nother challenge now of like, which could be really cool too, is, you know. I see what you're saying. Like the traditional kind of, I guess you could call it- The formula. It's the formula. Comfort formula. But you're saying like like the traditional kind of I guess you can call it comfort formula.

But you're still seeing it. Look at the Hallmark Christmas movies. I asked about, because I never watched Hallmark and I asked like my I asked I had an actress that was on Hallmark who also now wrote and produced them and I go look I like true crime and I like a lifetime where like the nanny is like fucking the husband and stealing the baby. Okay, that's what I like. But I'm like, how is it that these like dork movies that you know the formula and everything? And she said, because in a scary time in the world in which we definitely live, it is like this comforting thing.

You know, no one's going to get murdered. You know the guy's not going to have a secret wife somewhere in the other town. He just sells Christmas trees, you know? And you know that they are going to have a nice home and like there's going to be a turkey. And it's just like a calming thing. So I agree with that. But when I think of like the romantic comedy thing, which is something that I would always be excited to see, oh, Julia Roberts is in a movie, blah, blah, blah. And there's a part where they get angry at each other and they don't talk, but then they finally...

Right. And then they walk out and they're both naked and they're disgusted, but they have perfect body because they're like, oh, oh, oh, we work together in advertising. I can't see your naked body. And I think now that we've like seen it, it, no, that's never going to work again. And I think there's been a couple funny ones. I remember Amy Schumer's show from a few, her movie from a few years ago, I totally loved Trainwreck, loved it.

I think we can do it, but then those, like you said, are not, you know, Planet of the Apes or whatever, you know, superhero movie that can be huge in every single country because it's a little specific to this girl in Portland who met her cute hippie dude. Right. So, you know, then those movies don't ever get what they should have backing them, you know? But then you look at movies like, did you see Coda? No, I did not see it. Go watch Coda.

Make sure you get a box of tissues. It won best picture. Did it won best picture? Yeah, I think it won. Well, it won a lot, yeah. It won best actor, I remember that, or best supporting actor. And the person was hearing impaired, right?

It was a daughter who could hear, and both her parents were deaf, but she wanted to be a singer. And so the parents were like, well, what's the point of us supporting you? Because this is not fair, but it's just such a good, it's a small independent film. But the small, I don't think I've been so emotionally moved by a movie.

And you know, it's a movie that gets picked up in the little, you know, film festivals, and then it gets marketed. So it just, when you see it and you realize that it doesn't, you don't need a $200 million budget film. What, instead, why aren't these studios dividing it up and make 20, $10 million films with good storytelling. That's what used to be done.

That's what used to happen. Comedies, comedy movies, like you think of like old school. Like those are so low budget. Those are the only things that my boys who are 21 and 18, they have not had anything like that to watch in the last 10 years. They do watch old school and they do watch the Wedding Singer. They watch all those movies from like 15, 20 years ago.

And those movies killed it at the box office and they were so cheap to make. I mean not to toot by a horn, but like I worked on White Chicks. I was a contributing writer on it. And I love that people love that. And the reason they love it so much is because it was funny, but also, they don't make comedies anymore. They literally do not make comedies anymore. Everybody, I try to think of like...

And also because of the PC stuff. I was gonna say, like you can't see... And of course, if you watch some things, any movie you can pick out, oh my God, I can't believe they said that word. And oh my God, I can't believe this is a storyline of making fun of this guy because whatever, he's gay. And you're like, I can't believe they said that word. And oh my god, I can't believe this is a storyline of making fun of this guy because, you know, whatever, he's gay.

And you're like, I can't believe it. So... I mean, I go back to like... So like, you know, it's gonna have to just take people to be like, fuck it, this is the movie we're doing. Come to see it if you don't, if you don't wanna see it, don't see it. But again, they're not gonna get the big studio

to back it, you know? Right, and that's why I think you're going to start seeing more independent, where you actually have people that are so talented at writing who can actually make their own stuff. And I think, you know, the golden rule is whoever has the gold makes the rules. And while these studios are hurting financially, corporations still want to sell their product. I think you're going to start seeing a lot more product. I think you're gonna start seeing a lot more integration. I think you're gonna start seeing, I mean, you're starting to see companies now doing their own media.

Like in the olden days of radio, like this is brought to you by this, you know. Soap operas. Soap operas were selling soap. And I think we're going back to that model. Interesting. And I think actually, if there is a way forward, it is to do that and say, hey, you know, if

you guys want to distribute our stuff, well, you could distribute it, but you shouldn't make it. Why don't you let the talent make it? Why don't you let the people that have new ideas, whether it's sinks or swim, that's always been the model. And what about the fact that, you know, we do have a lot of billionaires, we have a lot of multimillionaires who they get to a point in their life, and who doesn't want to be at the Oscars?

Who doesn't want to be a movie producer? So how do you feel about creative people taking it in their own hands and crowd, maybe not crowdfunding, but actually going just like you would go to get money to launch your makeup line. That's you know for eczema or whatever Doing that way going but getting these people to that now. Would you like to be in the right? Do you want to be part of the do you want to be part of the sponsorship like I mean? Could you imagine if Coca-Cola made a movie that went to the Oscars like yeah, you know right now It's like Apple and Amazon that are kind of like, hey, we got an Oscar contender, we got an Emmy contender.

But I mean, what if, open that up. Who doesn't want to go to the Oscars, to your point? Who doesn't want to like, wow, this was the big box office smash brought to you by Tide. But who's to say you can't do that anymore? And that's what I think one of the big things that in this moment of transition, we're also starting to realize that the rules

don't really need to exist. Like who says a movie has to be 90 minutes to two hours? Who says a movie can't be 17 minutes long? Who says like, you can't watch a TV show vertically on a phone. That has to be the three acts or whatever. Exactly, who's to say any of this that we've been so structured? It's like, you can't watch a TV show vertically on a phone. That has to be the three acts or whatever. Exactly. Who's to say any of this that we've been so structured?

Because right now, the house is flatlined. So it's like, you can build anything. And it's going to take the people who think outside of the box. And this is what I'm saying. Within chaos, there's opportunity. And this is really going to be a time for creatives to thrive, I think, and it's a time to step in

and all of a sudden say, wow, we're making some cool shits. This is what happens when you have free rein to creatives and they can make the stuff that they wanna make. I'm looking at teaming up with this new company and I'm not gonna say what it is now because it's gonna come out later, but what it does is provides equity to the entire crew. So if you wanna make a movie,

and you're just like, and so it's not just the executive producers taking the cash away, it's if you're a gaffer. They all have the back end. Right, everybody gets a back end. So it splits it amongst the crew. So everybody has ownership in the product.

And everybody's that much more involved in wanting to do their best job. I love that so much. Exactly. That's brilliant. Exactly. So I, this was, and I don't really team up with many companies, but when I got pitched this I was like, yes, I'm in because I believe this is the way forward. And they're looking to how do we make this where you can go to a company and even using

AI to your point of saying, okay, hey, I keep using Coca-Cola, but hey, Budweiser, you know, do you want to be part of this film? Well, AI can a Budweiser in the scene. So we could put whatever you need into the scene. And that's where I think AI can also be creative as well. That is a great idea. Yeah. Not just like writing the crappy movie. Right. We're also seeing things where I've heard,

you know, Walmart bought Vizio and that there's discussions about creating programming where you can watch the show, but you could hit pause and everything you see on screen, you can purchase at Walmart. So like I could buy your shirt, I could buy the hat, I could buy the seat that you're sitting in, I could buy the clock on the wall. So anything you click on the screen is purchasable

So I think that is so brilliant too because people are always like, you know like we talked about JLo went on a date with Ben Affleck and she we we talked about on the show and we're like, where are those jeans from? Yeah, and I had someone tell me they are Veronica Beard another person tell me they're good America and another one Tell me they were frame. I I still don they're good America and another one tell me they're a frame Mm-hmm. I I still don't know which ones they were holes, you know You're like JLo go make your own jeans But yeah, and so there's always that like oh, where did this person get this and and sometimes it's yeah

You can do it a little bit online, but it would be really cool to do it on the show where you're like Yeah, I do do it a little bit online, but it would be really cool to do it on the show where you're like, yeah, I do like that couch. Yeah. Yeah. I want that. Where can I buy that? Oh, and especially if it's like Walmart, you know it's all coming from Walmart.

Right, and then everybody profits from the fact that you bought something that was featured on the show. Exactly, and Target can do the same thing. And if you think about it, that is really the future where we're going. So that's why I was saying, the golden rule, follow, you know, whoever has the gold makes the rules, follow the money, who has the money and who's going to be wanting to get the most out of the content.

Wow. This is so great. Tell everybody where they can follow you, do lots of posts a day. And I think it's really interesting. I have a serious face. I got to work on mine. Yeah. So this is your Instagram, your Instagram is producer.patrick. Yes. And then on TikTok, you even have a bigger following, that's at producerpatrick, no dot. Correct.

Yeah. So awesome. Well, it was so great meeting you. And now you've made me not wanna just, you know. You wanna go out and make something. I mean, you're making something right now. Well, I love doing the show and I oftentimes, because it's so like free flowing,

I'll think of a movie idea and I'll say it. And I will say, just go make, I won't even be jealous. Just go make it because I don't have time to do it. But you know what, maybe if I did utilize more of these tools, like even if it is an AI thing, and I just, I push it out and they write me like a crappy script, at least like I always said,

and people say, how did you write your books? I always say, get it out on paper and then go back. Exactly. And go back, but it's just, so it's like, let's not totally shit on an AI script, because if you got an AI script, you still could go back and at least you go, okay, here's the opening scene,

now I can make it funny. It's a tool. Now I can create a more interesting character. Now I can, so it can help you just like Cliff Notes used to help us in our day of trying to understand like a Shakespeare play. 100%, and I use it all the time to be like, how can I make this letter more persuasive?

Or how can I make, you know, how can I make, or I'm just like, I really don't feel like typing this whole email out, like, get can I make, or I'm just like, I really don't feel like typing this whole email out, like get these points out, you know, and then it generates the whole like message for me. Like it's just where, you know, and it also just makes time go so much faster in terms of like writing summaries,

I could take notes and I could paraphrase everything. I just put it in the system. Yeah, I mean it's so great for college, I see all this stuff for college, yeah. Well, thank you so much, Patrick, you're a it's so great for college. I see all this stuff for college. 100%. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Patrick. You're a delight. Thank you for having me on the Juicy Scoop.

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