Keep it Positive, Sweetie - Family Over Everything with Devale Ellis

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Y'all have been asking for my brother and costar Devale to join me on the couch and we finally made it happen! We talk about everything from football, business, faith and most importantly family. If you know anything about Devale, you know he loves his family and he's proud to be from Brooklyn. Grab your tissues because this one is a tear jerker.

Hello and welcome to this episode of Keep It Positive, sweetie. I'm Krista Renee Hazelid and today I have with me my dear, dear friend, my brother from another mother, Deval Ellis. What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? How you feeling? I'm chilling, you know. You know, we got you, listen, they've been asking for you. They have they? Yeah, I mean, no. Can we get Deval and Kadeem on the couch? I'm here.

He's here. I'm here. We got him. We appreciate you. No, I appreciate you for having me. No, for real, thank you. I love this, I'm excited about this. Thank you.

I remember when it was just a- I thought. I thought, and now it's here. I like it, I like it. Oh my goodness, thank you so much. When I think of you, Deval, I think of anything pop smoke. Anything Brooklyn.

So what's a Brooklyn song? Where Brooklyn at? Where Brooklyn at? That's the perfect, I got something that's about, yup, you see what I'm saying? No, literally that's what I think of. Because everywhere we go, it does not matter where we are, Deval is going to rep Brooklyn.

Facts. We could be at an Atlanta Hawks game, working. Why you gonna bring that up? Working. Why you gonna bring that up? And he go like, Brooklyn, stand up! I got fired. In State Farm Arena.

I can't do it no more. What are you doing? I can't do it no more. You would do it again. You're like, and I'll do it again. And that's why they don't ever bring me back up there. Have me swag surfing. Everybody was like.

And they was playing the nets too. It was crazy. Yeah. It was crazy. For those who don't know, let me tell you, Deval Ellis is a former NFL player turned actor. Currently, he is a series regular in the number one cable television drama series, Tyler Perry's Sisters,

and the star of his very own number one rated spin-off, Zatima, which he has the pleasure of playing opposite yours truly. Ha ha, talk about it, talk about it. Talk about it. And, can't leave this out, you are also a New York Times bestseller for your book, We Over Me,

that you co-wrote with your wife, Kadim Ellis. Amazing. I'm so happy you are here. You are one of my closest friends. I just love you, I look up to you, and I admire you so much. When I think about the first time we met, the first time I actually saw you was on Instagram,

social media. That was my first introduction of you. But I never, a word, like everybody ain't seen you. A word. But we got to, the first time I actually met you in person or saw you in person was in the audition room for Sisters. At the time Fatima was a really small character that hadn't yet been introduced.

And I was a producer on the show or still am a producer on the show, but I was sitting in the back of the room watching all the auditions with Tyler. And that was the first time I got to see you as an actor. And I was like, wow, he has something special. All right, what's up? Yeah, no, for real, for real.

Then we got to know each other through sisters. I remember getting the call saying, I'm gonna make you Zach's girlfriend or his love interest. And I was like, what? Yeah, when I first read it, I was like, where's this going? I didn't understand it. Yeah, I was like, y'all can't give me,

you know what I'm saying, a tall, dark chocolate. That's it, that's your type too. That is your type too. I was like. That is your type too. Right. Idiots. Like, they don just gonna put that in the atmosphere. Tall, dark, chocolate, and some other things.

Because I've learned I gotta be careful what I say because that's what God will bring me and that's all he'll have is just tall, dark, and chocolate. So I gotta be careful what I say. But I remember when we got the call, we started rehearsing together. And at first it was just like straight rehearsing. One day you were like, so tell me about yourself. We had never just had a conversation. It was like, hey, I'm Crystal. Like, do you wanna run it?

You called me so like meek. And I was like, first, here's the funny thing is I got the scripts and you know, there were a couple of guys who had a crush on you. Oh, I remember that. They had a crush on you. I'm not remember that. Right? They had a crush on you. I'm not gonna blow them up. But I got the scripts and I'm reading the scripts

and it says, Zach and Fatima, Zach and Fatima. And then finally it says, Zach and Fatima started to have sex. So I immediately called those guys. And I said, well, well, well guys. And they were pissed at me. Pissed at me. That's something to let y'all know.

But then we were also scared because you're also a producer on the show. So I was like, this is our boss. So like there has to be a level of respect, you know, when dealing with this role. So when you called me, I was just, I was nervous. I was like, is she calling me as a producer or as an actor? And then you were so meek on the phone.

And I was like, why is she so meek? Like you a producer, you worked with Tyler all of these years. I was nervous more than anything else. Wow, that's crazy. I was. And I was nervous because that was my first time really acting and then having a scene partner like you who's had experience and been on all these shows.

I'm like, oh God, okay, here we go. And I remember calling you to rehearse because it was during the pandemic. No, actually the pandemic hadn't happened yet. It was beginning of January. It was beginning of, remember we got the call, we were gonna do it. And then our season-

Oh, we got in March. Yep. We got the call in March. We got the call in March so we weren't coming back because of COVID. So that was our initial interaction. And here we are five years later. Five years later, but I-

Since 2019. Yeah, since 2019, but that was actually 2020. So four years later. Five years later. Five years later, but I... Since 2019. Yeah, since 2019, but that was actually 2020. So four years later. Four years later. But I do remember us running lines the first couple of times. And we were just like, yo, I kind of like this chemistry of where the story's going. Because at the time you were paralegal, and Zach just coming out of prison, and it was just like, they can have like a coming of age love story. We were like, we're gonna get out on the show.

Literally said that. It shows you the power of the tongue guys. We literally said this and like two years later, or even less than that. It was no, it was less than that. We sat on the bed, we were getting ready to do a scene and Tyler walked in and said, I like this. And we looked at each other like, it's about time.

Yes. We knew it at that moment. I remember it had not been officially announced and we heard the crew whispering about Zetima's coming, Zetima because they saw it on the production calendar. We're like, we didn't talk about it. And then I got the call. Yo, nigga, you got your own show. I was like, you are lying to me.

That was, oh my gosh, I was in bed. I was in bed with KT called me. And K was just looking at me, like she could tell that something was happening. Yeah. Cause I was on the phone, then I sat up. Yeah. And I remember saying, you serious?

You for real. Stop playing. Stop playing. Like us, sir. Yeah. Yeah. So then she was like. She probably like. Yeah, she jumped up like what?

What you? Yeah, she looked nervous and I was like. And I told her it was exciting time, y'all. No, it really was. The versus win history. That's amazing. We did that, y'all. We did, no, we really did it.

We manifested it. We worked for it. Yeah. We did it. Speaking of manifesting, I it. Yeah. Yeah, we did it speaking of manifesting I feel like a lot of your life has been manifested Yeah, let's take it back. Let's go all the way back because I want to give people the full scope of Deval Going all the way back to being raised in Brooklyn, New York Having these dreams. Did you always dream of being an NFL star? Did you always dream of being an actor?

How did that come about? I never wanted to be in the NFL. Really? So how did that, you just that good? One of my early... Yeah, you like stop. Yeah, stop, stop, stop. No, this is a true story.

My parents didn't want their kids in the streets in Brooklyn. So they used to send us down to Morristown, Tennessee. Shout out Morristown, Tennessee. Shout out to Tennessee. Every year for eight weeks, my grandparents, we went down there. They had an acre and a half of grass. They had trees, they had everything.

And it was a space for us to have some time to be away from the city. All you have to do there is ride bikes, run, jump, climb trees. And drink out the water hose. Exactly. Don't be letting my air out. Man, stay outside.

If you come back inside, you inside all day. You know how country parents are. Yes. So I remember going down to Morristown, Tennessee and just being super athletic because we had nothing else to do. Yeah. Like all we did was playing, jumping, running, racing, run up the hill and they lived in the mountains.

So everything was uphill or downhill. So all that acceleration, deceleration made me athletic. But here's the thing that kind of sparked my interest. We used to go to the boys club when we turned 13. Then they turned it from the boys club to the boys and girls club of America. And when they did that, they added creative arts. And I remember being 13 years old,

and I went back into the Creative Arts Center, and they were in there singing and dancing and putting on plays. And I was like, I want to do that. But here's the crazy part. I'm a kid from Brooklyn. Everybody who goes into the creative arts, who's a male, is looked at as soft, weak, gay. And this is the 90s.

So I'm like- It's a different time. It's a different time. No one is even speaking about that type of lifestyle. So it was like, man, what do I do? I'ma just play sports. I'ma just ignore that part of my life and play sports. So I did that.

And I just told my parents, I was gonna find a way to go to college. So that after I go to college, I could be an artist. Wow, that is amazing. So when you, so when you started playing, how old were you when you started playing football? 16. Okay. I was a basketball player.

I could dunk when I was in eighth grade. I'm not tall. I was only 5'7", but I was crazy explosive. Like I said, being in Morristown. So my brother and my cousin and I, we were all just super athletic. And I was like, you know, I'm gonna go to the NBA. But my goal to go to the NBA was only to make enough money so that I didn't have to be a starving artist.

Wow. And then, yeah, that's literally the whole thing was I'm gonna go to the NBA. So I looked at Allen Iverson, he was like my size. And you know, I designed my game around him. And then my basketball Allen Iverson, he was like my size, and I designed my game around him. And then my basketball coach, he was a tough guy, but he wasn't one of those guys that got kids into college. And then the football coach came and said, yo, you 5'9", and you can dunk.

This is when I was a sophomore in school. So I'm like, you can dunk. Why don't you just play football? I was like, man, ain't nobody playing no football. I'm 130 pounds. He said this to me. He said, you want to go to school? I said, yeah.

He said, you want to go to school no football. I'm 130 pounds. He said this to me. He said, you want to go to school? I said, yeah. He said, you want to go to school for free? I said, yeah. He said, you play between the numbers and the sideline. I'll get you to school for free. So at 16 years old, I picked up football.

Wow. And the rest was history. The rest was history. That is crazy. So you go to school at Hofstra. Yeah. And then were you drafted or did you? Wasn't drafted. I was first of all, I was a walk on in Hofstra. I was walking on I was I was small

at the time when I was being recruited. And this is something for parents to understand. I was 17 when I played my last down to football in high school, because I was in school early. OK. So I didn't turn 18 until the end of the year. But that season I was 17. I was competing against 18, 19-year-olds. So I was only at the time 5, 10, 148 pounds.

So all the schools came and they were just like. I wish I was 148. You wish you was 148 pounds? Fatima cannot be 148 pounds. Please stop that. But I haven't been that weight since high school. But I broke a bunch of records. I got 26 passes for 831 yards, 15 touchdowns. Thought I was gonna get a scholarship offer, never came. So Hofstra offered me a partial scholarship which was just room and

board and books. At the time, it was $10,000. My parents had to pay $15,000 for tuition. So, I told my parents, I said, yo, just let me walk on. I'm gonna earn a scholarship. Once I get the scholarship, my plan was to make a practice squad in the NFL. I could make $100,000 in four months.

And those four months, I was gonna buy a brownstone in Brooklyn, shout out to Brooklyn. Ran out the top two floors, lived downstairs. So I didn't have to do it. I had a whole plan. If I had a whole plan from the time I was 17. Wow, wow Deval.

So you've always been like this, because for me to know you now you're a strategic thinker. Well, remember you started talking about manifestation. God gave me all of these visions. I kid you not. From the time I was young, a voice always said to me, where you are is not going to be where you spend the rest of your life.

That voice told me that. And the same voice always told me to question things and challenge things and not to do things the traditional way. So ever since I had that, I always felt like God had me. So when it came time to doing something outside the box, I'm on it. You're like, I'm on it because God got me.

God got me. Wow. I love that. So you get through college and it's time for NFL drives. So what happens? This is funny, man. I killed college. I was on pace to be the only receiver to have a thousand yards two years in a row. I played with Marcus Colston who's a freaking savage, everybody knows that. But if we're being honest, I was the number one receiver on the team, he was the number

two receiver. But if you look at Marcus Colston, he's 6'5", 230 pounds and runs a 4'4". If I'm taking a receiver, I'm taking Marcus Coles and I'm not taking the little fast guy. But once again, my plan was to just make a practice squad. I was like, yo, I didn't get drafted. I wasn't even a high priority free agent. I wasn't. It was just, I ran the fast time. They was like, you can come try out if you want to. I ran a 4.3 and a 40. 40 inch vertical, 10, five on the broad jump. Like I had all the measurables. Just some small guy from a small school. So at this point, five, 11, 175 pounds, still tiny.

I told my wife Kay, I said, yo, all I gotta do is make a practice squad. I get $100,000 and then we can get our dream. And I ended up making a team. I made way more than $100,000. Go now. And then it was like, all right, well, I can buy some property. I can start some businesses.

So this way, when I get into my art, I'm not broke. Right. And then I got cut, unexpectedly, my third season. Oh, man. At the same time as the recession, lost all my money. So OK, wow. So in that moment, what is going through your head? Because I would have been like, Lord, why?

I was mad. Yeah. I was mad and I was mad. I hate saying this. I was mad at God. You know how they say, you know, Jesus was on the cross and he said, God, why have you forsaken me?

That was me in my bathroom, running the shower. Kay is in there because I had just proposed to Kay. I just bought a house. I just, I was planning my life. Remember I always had a plan. I was planning my life. I was slated to be the number three receiver, punt return and kick returner.

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bought two properties, both properties values going down because the housing market had burst. So I had no equity in the properties, I had to move back to Brooklyn in my grandparents old apartment with my fiance. And I sat in my, I used to sit in the bathroom, I used to put the water on, close the door, and I would cry. I would cry, I would sit and she'd be like, hey, you okay? And I'd be in there, I'd just be like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm good.

Letting the water heat up, because we lived in an old apartment, that water used to be hot, and I used to be in there freaking balling. Because I was like, what are you gonna do? I followed everything you told me to do. When all my friends and people in the NFL and they were buying chains and they were buying

They're going to the strip club buying fancy cars. I drove a Ford F-150 My payment was a hundred and thirty five dollars a month I put all my money and property in the stock market and all of they got taken. Mm-hmm. And I was like I Was like I listened. Yeah, I was committed You know, I was with my girlfriend at the time was my wife I was doing everything the right way and it all was taken from me and I was just like Like God why this ain't fair? Right? Like I was like that. This is this is trash. If this is life Why did I do all that? I said I could have been promiscuous. I could have been to strip clubs

I could have bought chains and cars and I could have been to strip clubs, I could have bought chains and cars and I still wouldn't have the same amount of money. And I would still have the same feeling because I felt like less of a man. I'm like, I asked this woman to marry me under the pretenses that I was gonna take care of her. And now I'm asking her to move back to my grandparents' apartment in Brooklyn.

I just felt like. That's a blow. Yeah, my ego was done. I was just kind of like... And I don't like to say I have suicidal thoughts because that's just a thing, but I did kind of... It was times I was just like, man, why I ain't even living no more? Like, I didn't want to get out of bed. Like, it was bad.

Right. In that moment, what was the pivot that made you say, you know what, get up, Deval. Like, I need... You got to move on from this. Life has to go on, and I need to pick myself up. It's gonna sound crazy, but when you're responsible for someone else, like you just can't.

Yeah. I asked my wife to marry me. What I'm gonna do now? Yeah. Like what I'm gonna do? And then growing up in a Baptist church, you always hear about trials and tribulations. You always hear about tests.

And then it was like, there was one person who used to always call me, it was my Aunt Debbie. Love Aunt Debbie. You know my Aunt Debbie, I love you Aunt Debbie. When you go through something like that, most of your family doesn't know how to approach you.

People think that, you know, oh, when you on high, everybody wants to be around you, but then when you low, nobody wants to be there, to approach you. People think that, you know, oh, when you on high, everybody wants to be around you, but then when you low, nobody wants to be and they discard you. Talk about it. I've learned that it's not that they just discard you, but if you're the light to so many people,

and now your light goes out, those people really don't know what to say or how to be of service. You've been of service to so many people and now you need somebody they really don't know. My aunt Debbie would call me like once a week, hi Pooh Pooh, hi Pooh Pooh. I'm like what's up Aunt Debbie? She's like you all right? I'm like yeah. She used to ask me time you in your Bible? I should be like Lying. Lying, like straight lying. Right.

And she was like, Poopoo, you don't got to lie to me. And all she said was, you just remember how you was raised. That's all she would say. You remember how you was raised. And that was kind of like, you know what? You're right. Because my father was laid off when I was 17 years old, going into my senior year. My father was working for Chase Bank forever. My father always laid off when I was 17 years old, going into my senior year.

My father was working for Chase Bank forever. My father always kept multiple jobs. He used to bounce work at Chase Bank. He used to sell jewelry. My father did everything to provide for his family. I remember my father came home one day and said, I got laid off. I was like, hello, like you the man in the house,

what you mean you got laid off? He said, don't worry about it, it'll be fine. I got some, because my father always plans. And I said, if my father could go through that, he had three kids, one going to college, my sister was in private school. I said, all I have now is a fiance. And I thought about how I was raised.

And I watched my grandfather get up every morning and go to work. Then I watched my father push through, so I said, fuck it, I'ma just put my head down and just create, and that's all I did, was create opportunities for myself and for my wife. We had to make money, and I just found ways to create. Wow, oh my goodness. Them times always be hard for me.

I'd be, ugh, see, I was gonna fucking cry. Wow. Oh my goodness. Sometimes it would be hard for me. See, I said I wasn't going to fucking cry. Those really be the hardest times because people don't know what it's like to be not just a man, but you the light in your family. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody's like, you're devout. How can I, Devout, can you?

And I'm always like, yeah, because I've always felt like these blessings that have been given to me are not for me. I have a fiduciary responsibility to provide for everyone around me. Even when I create businesses, you know, it's like I create a business. I'm like, yo, which one of my friends could use extra 15K?

I'm like, yo, I'll put you on my business thing, you can do that, you make some extra, like I've always been that way. So when you feel like you don't have that ability to be that for people, you don't feel like you belong anywhere. And it's like, I felt like less of a man. I felt like less of a brother, less of a son.

And I'm like, I'm failing everybody. So when you push through that, I always put it away. I don't even think about it. Until I got to talk about it. And I think that's something we have to do more of, stop suppressing everything. You know, I feel like, especially the black man, you guys have to be strong for everybody.

And especially- I thought that wasn't gonna cry on the way you did this to me, man. No, it's all right. Oh, man. My bad, go ahead. No, you're good. But as the black man who is the light to everybody,

you do hold a lot. And our society and our community has not, until recently, allowed the man to express or to cry or to feel anything because, which like when your dad came home, all right, you the man that has, what you gonna do? That's been the thing, you know? So like, you have to suck it up and keep going.

That's really, even now. Like you a creative, there's no salary that, every month I'm guaranteed on the first and the 15th, I'm gonna get this. I gotta wake up every morning and say, yo, how much money am I gonna make to be with Survive for the next six months? Next five years.

You know, I have a wife now, I have four kids. They're gonna start going to college. We're looking at private school. I can't just sit back and wait. So sometimes it is like a lot of pressure, but I ain't gonna lie to you, yo. God always had me. I've never not had what I needed.

I may not have always had what I wanted when I wanted it, but I've always had what I needed. One story I always tell was when, Kadeem, we didn't have insurance, because the NFL, once you get cut, they drop you from insurance. So I had no insurance. Now I have a wife. Now she's pregnant. I'm like, fuck.

I gotta find insurance. I'm like, okay, if I become sag, let me get on this commercial circuit. So now I'm hustling. Every other day going to commercials, going to commercials. It was like, I'm gonna, okay, if I become SAG, let me get on this commercial circuit. So now I'm hustling every other day, going to commercials, going to commercials. It was like, well, you gotta make $3,400 by October

in order to qualify for next year's insurance. I booked a Cheerios commercial. I get a check in the mail, it's for like $34.76. It was like almost perfect. Kay calls him and said, hey, my husband just got a check in the mail. And he's like, oh yeah, we see his name, Ellis. He's qualified.

He's SAG eligible. He joins SAG, he can get insurance. God's always done that for me. Always made a way. Always made a way. There was times I lived through my credit card. I had my Square app and I got kicked off the Square app because I used to cash advance myself money through my American Express.

Sorry, American Express, but I used to cash advance myself money to make it from month to month. And this is when I owned the gym and I was trying to keep the business going but I also had employees and there was times where it's like, shoot, it's a valley in training right now but these people gotta get paid. So I'm like, here's $5,000, here's your thousand,

here's your thousand. You know what I'm saying? I lived through that for like half a decade. Wow, wow. Half a decade, just paycheck to paycheck. I never told Kay how bad it was. Never told my parents, I just smiled. And they used to be like, you doing it?

And I'd be in there like broken, like, yep, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. But God always had me, God had me. So now, with everything that's happening, I don't take it for granted. I don't take it for granted. I still put a lot of money away. I've learned how to protect my peace,

but also protect my future. So I give to people, but I don't give what I don't have. And I try to provide a way for myself to exist for years if everything is taken away. I got cut so last year we went with the strike. Yeah yeah. You know I was able to continue my life as usual. Because you've been through that. And that's the message. That's the message. Because a lot of times you're looking like Lord why have you forsaken me but all he's doing is preparing you for something else so that the next time you're prepared for it. And do you know how

seamless that strike was? Chris. Like, I do not say that in a arrogant way. I hear you. I hear you. It was nothing but the goodness of God. You'll know real when you get it. It'll say eBay authenticity guarantee and you'll feel it. Maybe it's a head turning handbag, a watch that says it all, jewelry that makes you look like the gym, sneakers in streetwear so fresh every step feels fly. When it comes to style and luxury, eBay gets it. They're making sure the things you love are checked by experts. Not just any experts, specialized experts. Real people who love this stuff with a real hands- on authentication experience. So when you see

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Ensure your next purchase is the real deal. Visit eBay.com for terms. Seriously, that we made it through without missing a meal, without any lights going out, anything. And life still went on, we still had an amazing life. And that was nothing, that's how God, that's how my God works. You know what I'm saying? It is, like, I know it's a storm outside, but you good.

Chris, when people ask me, because spirituality always get questioned, right? You have a ton of people now who are, like there's access to everything. So we're no longer this is crazy we're no longer blind in the world but I do realize it's the blind leading the blind there's a ton of information it's a lot of information but I'll and misinformation but what I've realized is that you can't convince someone how to practice faith all I can do is tell you why my faith is important to me. And there's moments like that.

Like there's no way, I've never, never had a nine to five ever. Ever? Ever. The only nine to five I had was when I worked at Haagen-Dazs when I was 17. Every time, any other, anything other than that, I've been a contractor.

Even in the NFL, you know, you're ultimately a private contractor who they can cut at any point. Acting is the same way when I owned my gyms. I never worked hourly. God always found a way for me and put things in my path that I could utilize and create a tool. Like, for example, I never thought I'd be a trainer. I hate school.

Went back to study exercise physiology and kinesiology because I needed to get my degree and certification to be able to make money to provide my family. God put that there. Never in a million years would I ever thought that I was gonna do that. But that's why I believe so much. Like no one can tell me.

No one can tell me he's not real. No, seriously. We talk about faith a lot and I'm very open with you about my journey with God. And I had brought you to church with me. Yeah, Sunday. Yeah. Kay came and church is not something that you guys participate in often. So let's go back because I know you were raised in a church.

What was that journey like and what made you be like, Oh, I want to take a step back. Every every elder in my family is a parishioner in the church. Oh wow. Minister of music, choir director, boy scout leader, my father man, a men's group called the Junior Laymen. One of my aunts is a minister, like my grandfather's a deacon.

Everybody's in the church. So I was in church every day. Monday through Sunday. Oh Lord. It was choir rehearsal, Bible study, youth council, junior layman, boy scouts, junior layman again on a Saturday, like I was always in church. So while being there, I've always been inquisitive.

God gave me messages, asked questions. I remember I was in Sunday school and I asked a question about the devil. We were learning about Lucifer being the angel of music. I said, um, so if Lucifer is the angel of music and he went against God and became the devil, did God make a mistake? Because he didn't make him to be the angel of music. And I got screamed at and kicked out of Sunday school and I was like, I'm asking a legitimate question because I don't understand.

And then when no one could give me an answer or try to, they just, because I was young, I was 12. When they just kind of pushed me aside as a problem child, that was the beginning of the end for me for church. And then my brother had a baby at 17. We had tattoos and braids. My father used to get scolded from the pool pit a lot. And I was like, yo, y'all just mad judgmental.

I just felt like it was so much judgment. And I went to college, and I started to study different religions because I always had a quest for knowledge. I just wanted to know. So when I was studying Judaism and Catholicism and Christianity and what was the other one? You said Muslim together, you said the Quran. I heard about the three books, the Old Testament, the Quran, and the Torah. And the one thing that stuck out to me was

that those books tell the same historical story from different perspectives. So there has to be some truth in those books. But it also showed me that I can't tell other people how they're supposed to serve God. God is omnipotent, right? He's the Alphanumer, the Almighty. You better. You definitely was raised in church. You said omnipotent.

You see, the omnipotent, you know? Yeah. Who am I to tell someone else that God didn't present himself to you that way? Right. So for me to tell the Jews or the Buddhists or the Catholics that you're wrong, my God is the right one, to me just seems wrong. So I stayed away from creating a label on how I served and I just seek knowledge. I see God wherever I am. So for me, it's like if I'm in a church and it's a Catholic church, let me hear the word.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I've been to bar mitzvahs before. So it's like, let me hear the word, whatever the word is, let me not tune out what it is. So I stay away from church because I don't want to limit myself. But I'm not against going to church.

You know what I'm saying? And I mean, I can say that a lot of people, the reason why they aren't in church now to this day is because Christians are labeled judgmental. They feel judged, how you say, you're being judged from the pulpit. A lot of people, the reason why they aren't in church now to this day is because Christians are labeled judgmental. They feel judged how you say, you're being judged from the pulpit. A lot of people deal with it and a lot of people deal with church hurt

and on things that happened in those walls that shouldn't happen. And I think there's a lot of churches that are trying to change that imagery and wanna really like make it a safe space that it's supposed to be. But I understand that. I had this conversation with my parents one day about, um,

I dated a Muslim before and, um, I tell everybody this all the time when people ask me like, who was like the best guy you ever dated? And it was this guy who was a Muslim. He was the most loving. I'm talking about the way he just like look after me, the care for me. Like I felt, that was like I really felt love. I feel you. And my parents were like, you shouldn't be unequally yoked. And like they were really

coming at me hard with the Bible and the scripture. And I was like, well, he's such a good person. And they ended up meeting him. He came to my college graduation and they to this day love him like absolutely love him but what I learned as I was I feel like because I'm a Christian I believe in Jesus I believe he died for our sins and that's what that's my belief but I don't judge anybody for what they believe in you know because God said to love your neighbor as you love yourself so I'm not here to judge you I hope that you, you know what I'm saying, he did say before he comes back, everyone is gonna have a chance to proclaim

that he is a savior. But I look at religion as a way to have some type of order in different cultures. And the main thing is to treat others as you would treat yourself. So I don't judge other people, but I know what I believe. Because you asked me, like, so what do you identify with? I did ask you on the phone what you identify with, yeah.

And I was like, I'm a Christian. I don't do the Baptist, Catholic, Methodist. I don't do that. Because I think by college, that's when more of the non-denomination started. Yeah, it started to arise. So that's where I am with it. But I don't judge anybody for

what they choose to believe in. You know, I just I love everybody and I just let my light shine and hope that Christ shines through that. Chris, I wish more of the world just exist in that type of space. Like if you think about the fact that we have holy wars, that is the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard in my life. A holy war. Like people should not be fighting people for beliefs. Now there's a long history of why holy wars have started, you know, and that's very political, it's about land and stuff. But my biggest thing is it is not my job to tell you you're wrong for believing the way you believe. If what you believe keeps you in a sense of peace, allows you not to kill

people, hurt people, steal from people, and just be a good person for humanity, then that's what you should believe. Yeah. You know, and that was my biggest fear from church. Growing up, you know, my godmother was Catholic, and even in the Catholic Church, they believed that Jesus died on the cross. They don't believe in the resurrection. Yeah. So they were just like, you believe in the resurrection? And I'm like, yeah.

And then I could feel the judgment. Yeah. I'm like, everywhere I go, like, why get judged? Yeah. But one of my friends, Brandon, his father was Jewish. And he was just like, you're not Jewish. You're not of the chosen people. So you can't get access to a positive afterlife and I'm like all of

y'all have some judgmental way of telling other people they don't belong I'm not subscribing to that yeah I'm not and I refuse to argue with people I don't want to go back and forth people argue religion all the time on social media and I'm like this is the dumbest. That person believes in being a better person for whatever they believe. Let them believe that. I don't argue with my parents. My parents will still go to church every Sunday.

And they ask me why I don't. And we have conversations, but I don't judge them. Yeah, and I'm sure they don't judge me either. They don't judge me. They love me the way I am. They still will take my boys to church when they go. I was gonna ask you that. So as you're bringing up your boys,

what are you instilling in them so they have their own walk? Because I know our parents was like, you're gonna be in church every Sunday. It wasn't a choice if I wanted to get up on Sunday morning or Bible study on Wednesday nights or choir practice. You were going. No, absolutely. So what do you do to instill that your boys have some type of relationship with God? That's still a conversation because my wife

grew up seven day Adventist and I grew up Baptist. They study and practice on Saturday, which is the Sabbath, and we go to church on Sunday. Once again, being judged, Kay's aunt, first time she met me, oh, he goes to church on Sunday? That's the wrong date. I was like, oh gosh. I'm like, here we go, like here we go.

Here we go again. But, Jackson asked me the other day, he was just like, Dad, we don't go to church because I hear church people are mean. Wow. I said, no, bro, that's not the case. I said, church people have the same issues as other people. I said, look, if you get sick, we go to the hospital, right? Yeah.

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routine with black lead products that are creating a new world of choices at Walmart. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. When you go to the hospital, people sick. What if I told you we're not going to the hospital to get you corrected because people are sick in the hospital? What would you think? He said, that don't make no sense. I said, exactly.

Why would you not go to church because people in the church have issues? Everyone is going to get healed. So you're going to run into people with issues in church the same way you got issues. He said people in the church have issues. Everyone is going to get healed. So you're gonna run into people with issues in church the same way you got issues. And he's like, oh, that makes sense. I said, we all got issues. We all need to heal. So I said, when you wanna go, when you're interested,

you let me know and we'll look into it. So he was like, all right. And I still ask him about it. We pray every night. We pray that the boys all know they you know Yeah, let me down asleep. They all know that they understand who God is Yeah, so um when they come to me and they said that I want to try I'm gonna say let's go find one Yeah, but I'm not gonna force it on them because I don't want them to feel like they have to believe something

All right, I'm trying to raise kids with open minds. Yeah So you you have four ho boys. They are all aspiring athletes. I feel like they all are walking in your shoes as a former athlete. What is something that you instill in them? I know you're like really hard about working out and training. They train like world-class athletes all the time at 12 7 6 and and 2. Crazy. Yes. Crazy. And they're all amazing.

Thank you. One is your godson. Huh? One is your godson. He is. That's a baby. He'd be right in there with him like, what y'all doing? Yeah, that too.

He just, he's like, he reminds me of Cairo. He just sees everything he wants to emulate. Oh yeah. So as a dad, like, what do you do to, hey son, if this is what you want to do, I'm going to teach you how to properly go after that. And what do you do to try to protect, if this is what you wanna do, I'm gonna teach you how to properly go after that. And what do you do to try to protect them as well, as they're navigating that? The biggest thing is the mental peace.

Because once you start playing sports, the first thing you focus on is other people. Who's better than me, who's cheering for me, who's hating on me. I gotta tell them, like, none of that matters. You're a kid, you're training to be better. So all you have to focus on is just getting better. 1% better every day.

And then just like, that's it? I'm like, I don't care if you win, I don't care if you lose, I don't care how bad you are when you start. I tend to show them me at different stages of my life. And I'm like, don't look at dad now and say, look, my father is successful. So if I'm not there tomorrow I'm a failure.

I showed them when I got cut. We talked realistically. Jackson would be like you didn't score no touchdowns in the NFL? No, I didn't. That wasn't my version of success at that point in my life. I'm having more of my successes now in a different part of my life because sports isn't everything. And that's the biggest thing I tell them like you're doing this to Challenge your will the only thing we can control is ourselves Yeah sports to me is the ultimate way to test your discipline challenge your will That's the only reason why we're playing you don't got to be a world-class athlete. Yeah, you playing for fun Yeah, you may be a CEO you may be an artist you may be you'll be a pianist you may be anything

So I want to go back to a challenging time in your life. We talked about your boys, and we talked about your responsibility to your wife. When you were playing for the Lions, you got injured. And you've been open about your addiction to pain medicine. During that time, what was it that you were going through in the mental and was the pain pills something that you were using to suppress

what you were going through in the mental and was the pain pills something that you were using to suppress what you were going through? Excuse me. Oh man, funny thing is the pain med stuff started in college. Deval. It started in college and to be honest, you don't realize when things start when you're going through life. It's not until you look back and you say,

dang it started then. But to be an undersized athlete playing a behemoth sport, I was getting beat up all the time. And I was a free agent triad. In college, I was a walk-on. So I always had to prove. I always had to, but that takes wearing tear in your body. I had five knee surgeries, separated shoulder.

I played, I had to put a local anesthesia on this shoulder just to finish out my senior year, big needle. So the medication was a numbing agent. And then once you're constantly numbing, you're afraid of the pain coming back. So you take pain pills ahead of time so that the pain don't come. Right. It's not about being high. It's a proactive.

It's a proactive. Like if I don't take these four Tylenol, I know I'm going to start feeling it. So let me just take four. And this is how bad it was When I was in the league, I woke up. I took four Tylenol just to get out of bed I would get to practice. I'll take four Tylenol before practice I would take four Tylenol at the end of practice and I would take two Vicodin to go to sleep. Jesus what? Every day. Vicodin? Took Vicodin every day. Two Vicodin every day to go to sleep

Because in my mind it was like if I don don't get sleep, my body won't heal. But I'm stressed out. I'm a rookie in the NFL. My body hurts. You can't sleep. You cannot sleep. You can't sleep. So I'm like, let me just take this so that I can't even knock me out. Then you wake up and you do it all over again. And before you realize it, you're like, man, this is years of abusing pills to numb pain because you don't want to directly approach something. And that's what it was.

The numbing agent for me wasn't my pain. It was numbing the fact that I was stressed out and I wasn't happy playing in the NFL. I never wanted to be in the NFL. That is crazy, because you don't have any young men, like that's their dream. And then for you to make it and be like, oh, you want wanna be here.

I realized that when I was there. Wow. It don't matter how talented you are. I was faster than the fastest. I could jump high, I could catch the ball. It's a different type of love for the game that requires you to get up every day to continue to hone your skills.

I did not wanna do that. I wanted to act, I wanted to dance, I wanted to just be an entertainer. And as I was in the NFL, I just was not enjoying it. I was miserable, like I was miserable. So the pain meds was like, yo, the guy go to sleep, get this $15,000 for this week, go home and start your business.

That's all it was for me. And that's no knock on the NFL, but it was just a means to an end. And the pain pills was a way for me to numb that pain so I can get through it. And then um, it's fun to be talking about spirituality It was my receiver coach in college. I was back home when you get back home now. I don't have access to the pain meds, right? So I'm at Kadeen's apartment and Every night cold sweats waking up. She got to change the sheets. She's like devout what is going on?

Yeah, and I'm like, Deval, what is going on? And I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. So I don't have the pain meds, so I'm drinking alcohol now. Because that's the way to numb the pain. I got money, I have nothing but time on my hands. Me and my friends would wake up at three in the afternoon. We would, as soon as we wake up, we would go get some tequila, orange juice, we take shots.

We would go do whatever it is we was doing, and then we would party until four in the morning. Wow. Cause me and Kay also weren't on good terms. So I was out, aside, I was outside just. Were y'all married at this point? No, we were, this was 2006, we weren't married. This was our first year apart.

Wow. And you know, distance causes rifts in relationships. Absolutely. So we were trying to figure out how to get back to where we were because for the last six months we were not living together. Then I moved back dealing with all the stuff I was dealing with. I was a different person. She was like, yo, you got PTSD. Then she said you don't have to get out.

She was just like, no, you can't stay here sleeping all day going out with your friends and coming in late and sleeping all day. So I was like, fine, I'll leave. Right. But then she's also taking care of me. She's like devout every night. You're breaking out in cold sweats. What is this? Yeah. And then one night she called my receiver coach and my receiver coach,

Jamie Elizondo, and he's a very spiritual guy. And this is crazy because based on his spirituality, he doesn't curse. But he cursed me out without cursing me out. And was like, you have a responsibility to that woman. That's a powerful talking to when they can curse me out without cursing me out. Not one curse word. He said, you have a responsibility to that woman

to be better. And you have a responsibility to yourself to be better for yourself. So get up. And I was just like, I was just telling him everything I was going through. Like it was just depression, like me and my girl on the same page. The Lions was looking to draft another receiver

who they ended up drafting Calvin Johnson. I had to deal with playing with Marcus. Now I got to deal with playing with Calvin Johnson. I already dealing with Megatron, the Megatron, the receiver of all receivers. I was depressed. And he was just like, that's not a good enough reason for you to lay in that bed and do the things you do. And he once again, like my Aunt Debbie, you know how you was raised. How you were raised. Wow. And it was just like a,

and from that moment, no more alcohol, got in the gym, stopped taking any pain. I don't even take time at all no more. Yeah, you don't. Because I was like, you'll have a headache. So I just take you like, no, no. I'm like, you know, I'm taking up the note. No. Yeah.

That's discipline, though, and that's real. Really saying, hey, I don't want to get back to that space. Yes, you already know how dependent you can be on that Chris you see even when I talk about I try not like it's so like dark I don't ever want to be back there, especially have my kids see me like this like four young men They're gonna look at me like I looked at my father and I used to blame my father I was there my father used to walk around he was perfect all the time. He used to put up a facade He put up a front, but now I see why because that's the standard that I

Lived up to yeah, I was like my dad does not do these things. So I'm not doing it So with my boys, I want them to have the same standard. So do you I want to talk to you about that. So When it comes to black men and you have four young black men that you're raising up and feeling like they can express themselves, feeling like they don't have to be perfect all the time, feeling they don't have to walk in this facade and like I got it all together, what are you doing to make sure that they have a balance of that of being a man but also showing that it's okay to cry.

It's okay to say, hey, this is how I'm feeling right now. This is the first thing every day when I see my sons, come here, did I tell you I love you today? Did you tell me you love me today? Give daddy a kiss. I kiss my sons. I don't care what people think about it. I kiss my sons, I hold my sons, I hug my sons.

And when I hug them, it's not like a church hug. No, it's come here, I hold you tight. You know I love you, right? You love me? Yeah. Were you great in school today? Tell me some things that you didn't do great. They tell me, I said, what we gonna do today?

We gonna work on it. And that's it. And I also put them in spaces where they don't have to, we grew up so different. Like in the South, Jim Crow South, cause remember I was born in 84. Like Jim Crow South is not that far removed. That's only 20 years.

Right, so my grandparents raised me in an environment where, you know, you're around white people, you keep your head down, you be quiet. When we get dressed up, we're gonna put on slacks, we're gonna put on shoes, you yes sir, you yes ma'am, everybody. And it just always put me in a place where I'm like, are these people better than me?

Is that why I have to act like this? You know what I'm saying? And if you think about it, that type of indoctrination teaches you, you know how they would say you gotta humble yourself? Why are black men always being told that we have to humble ourselves? As an athlete, I watch it, right?

Cam Newton does the Superman, he need to be humble. Aaron Rodgers does the discount double check and he gets praised for it. I'm not doing that to my boys. We walk in every environment in our truest blackest selves. What do you wanna wear, Jackson? I just wanna wear my flip flops and a hoodie. What we wearing that? And when you walk in there, you look people in the eyes

and you impress them with your intellect, not trying to assimilate to what version they think you have to be in order to be accepted. And they're just like, okay. And K is on board too. Because I'm just so tired and it's exhausting to try to exist in someone else's world. and Kay is on board too. Because I'm just so tired and it's exhausting to try to exist in someone else's world.

Ah, this is my world. It's my world, you know what I'm saying? Like, no bull, my God created this world for me to exist the same way you exist. Exactly. So why I gotta humble myself and be all this and be quiet? Nope, I'm speaking my peace. If you don't like it, I'll go where I am accepted

and it's celebrated, not just tolerated. And that's what I'm teaching my boys. I love that. That is so good. Your beautiful wife, Kadeem. You guys have known each other since elementary school. Yes. Been married since, how many years now?

Let me get it right now. We've been together 22 years. We've been together 22 years. We've been married 13 years. Okay, 13 years. Was there any moment in your relationship that was super hard that actually helped shape you as a man that you are today? Yes.

The moment that I wasn't able to do all the things that I thought made me a man and to still have a woman be there in her feminine energy and not have to like belittle me or say, why you ain't doing this? That moment there showed me what true partnership was. You know, because imagine you're in the NFL, I'm making half a million dollars,

I can whatever you want baby, we go ahead, we go ahead. We go ahead, we go ahead, because you don't wanna make kids, you know what I'm saying? I'm feeling like a man, I'm feeling like I'm providing half a million dollars, I can whatever you want, baby, we go ahead, we go ahead. You don't wanna make kids, you know what I'm saying? I'm feeling like a man, I'm feeling like I'm providing this lifestyle, and then all of it gets stripped away. And you gotta take that same woman from your cul-de-sac, your 4,500 square foot home in Canton, Michigan,

and you gotta go back to the hood. We lived on New York Avenue between Dean and Bergen. It was called Murderers Row. St. Mark's, right there, St. Mark's was rough. First year we there was two murders in the summertime. Oh my goodness. And I'm there with my wife who grew up in the house in Canarsie and she's just there like,

okay, so what we doing? Riding, she with you. Yeah, just there. And I'm like, I don't even feel like a man right now. And you're just here. Right. That made me so dedicated to my marriage. I love that.

You know what I'm saying? Because I watched the show. And Tyler was talking about what women need and what men need. And so much of it was misconstrued. And I watched it. And I got a completely different message from it. Yeah, when you watched the whole episode. When I watched the whole episode,

I got a completely different message. He was not telling women to accept nothing. But what he was saying is, understanding when someone meets you at your worth, your worth may not be a dollar amount. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? That's what I took from it.

But I also do understand when people respond to things, it's often a projection of what they're going through. Even with our comments. Someone may say something crazy in our comments. In the past, I'd be like, what the fuck is this person's problem? Why they ain't? But now it's like, man, I wonder what

that person has been through that that's what they receive from that. You know what I'm saying? That's a good perspective. Yeah. It's just like, hey, sometimes I look at the comments, I'm like, man, that person must really be hurting. And sometimes I really want to reach out and be like, you OK? You know what I'm saying? That's a good perspective, yeah. It's just like, hang on, sometimes I look at the comments, I'm like, man, that person must really be hurting. And sometimes I really wanna reach out and be like,

you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, what's going on? I hope that men in particular understand that you are not defined by your wallet. Yeah, yep. You know what I'm saying? You're not defined by what you can provide for a woman financially, but you are defined by the type of peace you can provide for a woman financially, but you are defined

by the type of peace you can provide for your family. And I think a lot of times men put more on themselves than what the woman actually needs from them. Facts. You have this list like, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, and she's like, no, I need this and you're not doing this. Crystal, I'm gonna tell you right now, as much as I used to make jokes,

because this is what people need to understand too, a lot of our content was out of jest. And I used to make jokes, because this is what people need to understand too, a lot of our content was out of jest. And I used to make jokes, but my wife wanted this big wedding and da da da da da, I wanted a big wedding, because I wanted to prove to everybody else the type of man I was, that I could provide that type of wedding for my wife.

And it takes maturity to get one and be like, then you know what, Devyle, that wasn't her, that was you the whole time. You bought her the big ring, you bought her the shoes, you wanted to get her these things. And then when you couldn't, you then blamed her because you made me buy these things. She never, never, never made me do anything.

And I hope young men take from that, that there's more that you can provide a woman and just a paycheck. Like there's so much more. You and I talk about this all the time. You're going through your dating journey, and me being married. We talk about what, you know,

cause sometimes even now, I'm gonna turn 40. I'm like, see man, I don't know what, you know, help me understand what K may be going through. And then you'll just be like, well, have you ever thought about this? And I'm like, no. No, I never thought about that. I never ever thought about that.

And then I'm just like, I still have a lot to learn at 40. And I'm just open to it. That's good. I want to learn. I just want to continue to just seek knowledge and get a better understanding of what life is. I love that. Where do you see yourself in five to 10 years?

Five to 10 years, I see myself headlining my own feature film with a production company. I see myself carving out time to spend six months guaranteed with my boys every year. I'm making a point to not ever get so involved in my career that I forget about them. And I realize that now, like this past weekend, I had an audition to do.

Nothing is more important to me than my boys. I told my agent, I said, y'all might have to get that to you later. Jackson got a tournament, Kyron wants to get trained, Dakota got speech therapy, Kaz wants to do art, and I have to do those things. And you know what I learned? People will bend to what you need. You know what my agent said?

I can get you three more days. You know what I'm saying? It's like, yo, so I can live in this entertainment industry and still be a family man. I can still take my wife on dates every weekend because I'm not filming in Bangladesh for a year and a half. Oh okay, I can do this. You know what I'm saying? I can do this and that's what I want to do. I want to be not only one of the biggest actors of all time, I want to be one of the greatest fathers.

I want my boys to be like my dad, rock with me and most importantly I want to be that husband that my wife can say he he held us down. Yeah. That's what I want. I love that. Yes. How about you? Five years. Five years.

Five years. Oh my goodness. In five years, I want to be a successful business woman. You will be. I have some things that I'm working on. I want to, of course, star in my own movies. I want to be executive producer. I want to direct. You will. I want to turn this into, star in my own movies. I want to executive produce. I want to direct.

You will. I want to turn this into a talk show. You will. I come here and see this. I'm like, God, this is already a talk show. This is... Thank you. Chris, you know how proud I am.

Thank you so much. Like we talk so much about what we want to do and then we just doing it. Doing it. Little by little we doing it. Yeah, that's what it's about. Execution. Do you want to find love?

I do. You will? I do want to find love. I'm in that space. My heart just like, as soon as you say I want to. Because I know you. I do want to find love. I do.

I felt that. You try, but you can't. Yeah. You can't. You love people so much. I watch you with all of your friends. I mean, actually, that's how we got close. You look out for everybody. You looking out for me.

Don't make me cry. Chris, you know, to be honest, people need to know. When I came here and I was trying to figure out things and do things for Kay when she was pregnant, you were my go-to. You were my go-to. You're the one that got me to tell me how to give back. Ben, clear you down. Yo, get K-dom, Ben, please. Get K-dom, get K-dom Cartier. She carried me 10 months. You need to get this. Like, you was-

We knew it, man. You love people so much that God- Remember I told you that God always got me? I can tell God's favorites. Oh my gosh. God gonna have you when you least expect it. I'm waiting on it, man. I know. God's favorites. Oh my God. God gonna have you when you least expect it. I'm waiting on it, man. He's gonna have you when you,

and he gonna be tall, dark, and handsome. It's like you more, he probably gonna play ball, but I'm gonna dunk on his ass, Zach attack. I see it for you though, I see it. I appreciate that. You too great of a woman not to, you know that. Thank you, friend, I appreciate that. And then Kaz and Dakota gonna be the ring bearers. Yep, exactly. You know, Kaz Thank you, friend. I appreciate that. You know that. And then Kaz and Dakota gonna be the ring bearers.

Yep, exactly. You know Kaz love you to death. That's my, no, when, listen, him and Kyro, when I walked into K's dressing room at the live show, when I say the way Kyro ran to me, he was like, I was like. And they haven't seen you in a while. Yes, in a minute. You working a lot. Yes, working, yeah. You can see why you haven't found you in a while. Yes, in a minute. You working. You working a lot. Yes, working.

Yeah. You know that's why you haven't found love yet. Yeah. You focusing on what you're focused on. I'm focused on it. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I'm okay with that. Yeah, I'm okay with that.

There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. It's not like you, like I don't believe age is really a thing. I understand the biological clock for women is a real thing. Yeah. But with modern technology and with you taking care of your body the way you do, you'll be fine if that's what you choose to have children, you know? Because you may not want to.

Yeah, every day is a different feeling. I know, we talking about that. I'll see my little nephew and I'll be like, oh. When he go home, okay. I see y'all. Stay with the toddler for too long. You be like, I ain't having no freaking kids. These kids are emotional terrorists.

They are. Toddlers are no joke. Yes. Love is coming for you, baby. Thank you. I appreciate that. They're coming for you. Come on, man.

Come on. I love you. Thank you for this. You made me cry. You made me cry. I said I wasn't going to cry, and she made me cry. Yeah. Dear God, thank you so much for this day. Thank you for letting Deval make it here safely.

Dear God, I ask that you just guide this interview, not interview, but it's a conversation between two friends. Let this conversation help others, inspire others, and bring them closer to you, dear God, in everything that we do. Let him get where he needs to go safely after this and Jesus name we pray amen. Amen. Amen. Please make him cry.

Oh God, Jesus!