Keep it Positive, Sweetie - The Gift of Rejection with Nona Jones

Episode Date: May 12, 2024

I had the pleasure of sitting with the wonderful and incredibly talented Nona Jones. We hadn't realized how much we had in common until we sat down. We talk about everything from her upbringing, childhood trauma, healing and so much more. Make sure you catch the gems that she's dropping.

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Trigger warning. This episode discusses sexual abuse. Viewer discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is experiencing sexual abuse, please call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673. ["Sexual Assault Hotline"] Hello and welcome to this episode of Keep It Positive, sweetie, I'm Crystal Renee Hazlett,

and today I have with me none other than Nona Jones. Nona! Hey, girl! I'm so excited to have you. I'm so excited to be here. Seriously, oh my gosh. The first time I ever saw you was at Change Church

last year, you preached, and I was just like, man, this woman is powerful. Just to hear a snippet of your story. I was just like oh my goodness so when they told me we were having you on I was like oh my gosh I'm so excited your energy is just lovely. I'm just glad to be here and the fact that we have so much in common girl trying to get these natural lashes together okay get it together yes. Yes I love it I love it. I like to start with a quote or a song. And when I think of you, I think of the scripture,

second Corinthians 12 nine, my grace is sufficient for the for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly, therefore I will rather glory in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me. And we'll get to why I think of you when I when I read this scripture later on. But yes, so let's talk about Nona. Nona, you are a rare combination of preacher, business executive, author, and entrepreneur. You serve as chief content and partnerships

officer of U version, which I wake up to every morning. That's crazy to know that you're behind that. I was like, this is so cool. Yes. I'm leading a global team and you have served as the head of global faith partnerships at Metta and you serve on the boards of Christianity today, magazine glue. Is it definitely right? Yeah. A tech company that is building a first of its kind platform to connect the entire ecosystem serving and building the body of Christ.

Wow. That is amazing. He is so good. So just tell me a little bit about young Nona. Like where did you come from? We want to know all the things. You know, it's funny when you gave that scripture at the beginning about God's strength

being made perfect and weakness. Like I think people walk into the successful chapter that your life is on and they just assume that's the whole story. So looking at me now, it's like, oh, she must've had a great upbringing, all this stuff, well. I was born to a mom who didn't even want to have kids.

And she and my father had been married for like 13 years when she got pregnant with me. And he was so excited because he wanted to be a dad. But she was angry. And to make matters worse, halfway through her pregnancy, she started to, he started to have some stomach pain and went to the doctor just to have it diagnosed. And he ended up being diagnosed

with terminal stomach cancer. And so he fought as hard as he could. He lived until about two months shy of my second birthday. And after he died, my mom moved us across the country. She was chasing a guy who said he would take care of her, but that relationship fell apart after she moved. And so I remember at an early age, there was like a string of men that came

in and out of her life and my life. And then she settled on a guy who became her living boyfriend. And I did not like him from the beginning Like I just there was something about him. He's here. Yeah kids know and that's why every time I even share my story I always say look moms. I don't care how Lonely you are if your children are not comfortable with somebody pay attention. Yes, so I told my mom I was like, I don't like him, but she was like, just give him a chance, he'll grow on you.

Well, fast forward, I think a few months, her sister passed away. And so she had to go back up north to the funeral. And I begged her to take me with her. Not only did I wanna be with her, but I just didn't wanna be with him. Because he was living in our house. I was about five and a half.

Yeah, so I was young, but I remember that moment so vividly as she was packing her suitcase. There were certain moments that are just like etched in was young, but I remember that moment so vividly as she was packing her suitcase. There were certain moments that are just like etched in your memory and I remember that one. And the first night that she was gone, he assaulted me. The very first night. He assaulted me and after it was over, he said, you better not tell your mom

because she'll get rid of you. And so not only was I physically wounded, but now I'm also mentally wounded because I'm thinking, well, I can't tell my mom because she'll get rid of me. So she came back and I was like a different child, I would say, like I was very much so quiet. But when I went to school, I would kind of act out.

And so I got labeled as disruptive. I was called a problem child. I had all these labels put on me. And I would get in trouble constantly. He would repeatedly abuse me. And I worked up the courage over the course of a couple years to tell her what was happening. And she had him arrested and I thought that was it.

I was like, all right, he's arrested. We'll move it on. It's over. But on the day of his release from jail, she took me with her to pick him up and brought him back home. And, yeah, and the abuse. And I think at that point, I realized that my voice didn't matter.

And so I didn't tell her anymore. And then she became physically abusive and verbally abusive. So there was just all this craziness happening. And at the age of nine, I tried to tell her anymore. And then she became physically abusive and verbally abusive. So there was just all this craziness happening. And at the age of nine, I tried to take my life. And mind you, we weren't at a church going family. I didn't know anything about heaven, God, Jesus, the Bible, church, none of that.

But I just figured that whatever was on the other side of death was better than what I was experiencing. And so it was unsuccessful, of course. The abuse continued. At the age of 11, I tried again, and that was unsuccessful. But after that second suicide attempt, in the sixth grade, a classmate invited me to this thing called church.

And she just invited me as her guest. Wow. And I will never forget, my home life was so painful and dysfunctional, but when I walked into that church, people were smiling and welcoming. And the very first sermon I ever heard, the pastor said, God is a father to the fatherless.

And I remember when I heard that, I was like, well, I don't have my father. And if God is a father to the fatherless, well, who is God? So I'm 11 years old, like, hmm, I wonder who God is. Yes. And that put me on the path to learning more about God, reading the Bible on my own. I was like 11 reading the Bible for myself. Wow. Like praying and just seeking the face of God. Um, became a Christian at the age of 12. And became a Christian at the age of 12 and the abuse did not stop but I think what what kind of changed my life was that the knowledge of who God was and the fact that he loved me that I was not a mistake even though my mother said she wished she never had me right I was not a

mistake I had a purpose I had a future I had a hope that really was the kind of foundation that changed my life. Wow, my goodness. I could not imagine at that age, going through that, you hear so many stories of young women that are just getting to this age sometimes to even open up and say it, what happened to them. And a lot of times when we're growing up, we wonder why our parents wouldn't let us go stay over so-and-so's house.

Yeah, she knew, and she was trying to protect us from that. In that now, as an adult, you're like, you start getting out, you get out of your mom's home. How did that, what happened at home, also flow into your relationships? So that is the million dollar question, because what I did not know then that I do know now is that situation wounded me deeply.

And I, you know, now that I've been in like, you know, professional spaces and I've been in leadership roles, I can see people show up. They're either very aggressive, hyper ambitious, really sensitive to criticism. And there was a point when I would look at those things and be like, Oh, something's wrong with them. But I realize now it's like, no, something happened to them. Because when you, when you, for whatever reason, show up wounded, the things that people say, they

end up injuring you. And that's the difference. Like there are things that people say, they end up injuring you. And that's the difference. Like there are things that can wound you and there are things that can injure you, right? But when you show up in a space wounded, when somebody speaks against you or maybe you don't get the promotion and it's like a super superficial thing,

it can actually injure you. And so for me, I would show up in relationships with people I was like defensive, you know, I could not take criticism because hearing my mother say she never wanted to have me that she would call me things like fat, stupid, all these things, I internalized it. So when somebody would say something super benign,

like, oh, you know, your PowerPoint presentation was off a little bit, that would injure me. I think about even in my marriage, like we'll celebrate 20 years in June, which is awesome, but there were seasons in my marriage where my husband would give me feedback and I couldn't take it. I couldn't handle it because it was almost like I would hear her voice in what he was saying. And so that would create a lot of challenges, but I thank God for victory. I thank God victory is possible. Yes, that's so true.

In that moment, during that time, when you were even with your husband, was there a moment where you said, I need to seek help and talk to someone? I know a lot of people, I've heard people say, I got Jesus, I don't need therapy. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Therapy is a gift that God has given to us because it is a tool that God works through.

It's just like, you know, if we have a cancer diagnosis, right? It's like chemotherapy is a gift. It is a tool, right? It's like therapy helps our heart. It helps our mind. It helps our emotions. But yeah, it took a while though.

It took a while for me to seek therapy because I believe I was functional, like you know, and high functioning. I'm talking about I've been an executive since the age of 23. So for 17 years, like operating at a high level, but there would be this like, this emptiness, this lack of fulfillment, where I was successful externally, but the ability to actually enjoy it was missing because of the trauma and the pain of my past that reminded me, oh, you know what? No matter what you achieve, you don't matter.

You're not worthy. Nobody wants you. Those things would kick up in my mind and they would actually make me pursue more success because I was like, well Well if I just get more Yeah, then I'll finally matter and that never worked So you constantly chasing after after that validation? Yeah be the first be the youngest be the only Those were the things that I felt I needed

Because again, there were voices in my head telling me you don't matter Look, look your mom took your abuser back over you. Clearly you don't matter. And so it was like, okay, well, I got to get the best grades. If I was in an organization, I had to be the president of it. If there was an award to get, I had to get the award. And it was like, people would say things like, man, you're a rock star. you are crushing it. You are. But that was because of my trauma. And I have said this, I think the way we respond to trauma is in one of two ways. We can either explode, which is when maybe there's violence,

there's harm, we yell, we kick, we scream, or we can implode, which is self-damage. And so you have some people who have addictions, they have vices, people who maybe are hyper ambitious, people reward that, but you don't realize it's because they've imploded. And now they feel like they have to achieve success to matter.

And that's a dangerous place to be in. It is. It's so dangerous. When it comes to forgiving, have you forgiven your mom? How is your relationship now? Yeah, that's such a great question. I will tell you, I went through a process with my mom. I can imagine.

I'll start at the end, I'll go back to the beginning. We don't really have a relationship because my mom is not safe. And I want to say this, and I hope that it will free somebody when I say this. One of the revelations God gave me many years ago is that a healthy relationship requires two sides of one coin. We harp on forgiveness all the time. You know, like, well, they did the thing, you gotta forgive them, you gotta move on. Forgiveness is required, that is absolutely true.

But you cannot have a healthy relationship if all you do is forgive. Because the other side of the coin is repentance. When there is an offense, I can absolutely forgive that person. I can forgive them for what they did. If they don't see the wrong in what they did You will not have a healthy relationship because they will repeat. Okay, I'm about to

Run around this sofa My god, if they don't see the My lord, they're not safe. And what so what happens is For my entire life. I would have people say things like I can't believe you don't talk to your mom I can't believe like who how dare you not have a relationship with your mom But these were people who are like you just need to forget you need to forget you need to forgive I have the power to forgive absolutely. Yeah, but in the absence of repentance She is not safe because an unrepentant person will simply re-injure you Yes, and my mom would do that over and over and over.

And so I, when I received that revelation from God, I experienced so much freedom. So the place where it's like, oh, I can forgive you. And I can even love you from a distance. I can make sure that you have everything you need physically. I can make sure that if you go on the hospital, that you're getting the best care possible. But what I can't do is I can't give you access to me.

Wow. Because you have proven that you can't handle that and you can't handle my heart. That is powerful. So have I forgiven? Absolutely. And really I've forgiven because forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves by releasing our future

from the pain of our past. Yes. And until you forgive, you're gonna just carry the past pain into the future. So I have forgiven her. I realized what she did, she did out of her own hurt, her own ignorance, her own guilt.

Yeah. The way she shows up today is truly because of guilt. But I also know that I'm responsible for me and she's responsible for her. Yeah. And so forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean access. Ooh, well that's a word. I need that to scroll on the bottom.

Forgiveness does not necessarily mean access, wow. In the absence of repentance, it does not mean access. Goodness, wow, that is so good. Is she still with, you are lying to me. Yeah, well, what are you about to say? Is she still with the man? Oh, oh, well, okay. Yeah. Well, well, what you about to say was she was a man. She said with the oh, oh, okay So first of all, she was with him until

Not too long ago I mean she was with him probably until maybe the last May last ten years because I remember she brought him to my college graduation So that gives you a sense for how long they were together. He actually left her Wow And and so the thing about this situation, it was so toxic, he didn't even have a job. Like she was basically taking care of him. And so it was so, so toxic, but people will say

you just need to forgive, you need to, no he left her. If it was up to her he would still be there. Registered sex offender and all. Geez. Yeah. That is crazy. I would have been like, mama, he cannot come. Oh, I would say things like, she brought him to my trial sermon when I was 17. Preaching my very first sermon, you know, about to be licensed into ministry. Yeah. She brought him there. Yeah.

How did you feel like in that moment? I think I was kind of desensitized by then because you know that's a real thing. When my mom brought him back I think something within me knew the only solution is to leave. Like at this point I just had to focus on my grades. I have to focus on getting out of here. That's why I did. I got a full scholarship to college. But yeah, she would bring him around constantly. Did you ever deal with shame growing up? Because I can imagine like navigating that.

I would, I can imagine. Absolutely, because. I can't honestly like, yeah, that's a lot. Shame, shame, we use the words guilt and shame interchangeably, but guilt is the idea that I made a mistake, shame is the idea that I am a mistake, it's about identity. And so I wrestled with that constantly.

Like, obviously something must be wrong with me for her to allow him that, Something must be wrong with me. My mom would go days and weeks without speaking to me as a child. Like even now, I don't hear from her. And it's not because I told her not to call me, but if I don't reach out to her, I don't hear from her. And there were so many years I was like,

what is wrong with me? What did I do that was so bad? Here I am, like straight A student, dean's list, all these leadership, being selected for these leadership programs and awards. I was selected as the commencement speaker for high school. I did all these things, thinking that she'll choose me if I am the best.

I know that now. It's like, man, she'll choose me if I'm the best. And nothing was ever enough. And so I had to come to the place where I was just like, this is what it is. This is not the anomaly. This is the experience. And I had to figure out how I was going to move because of that. Oh my gosh. Was there ever a moment, because I know a lot of young women who go through the same thing that you went through, also end up chasing after men, seeking some type of like the approval and the want from someone else.

Did you go through a phase like that? Oh yeah. And the scary part of all this is I didn't know, like I didn't know that the wounds that she created would actually show up in how I related to other people. And you kind of referenced that earlier. Yeah, like I needed attention because that's a basic human need.

It is. A basic human need is attention, affection, love. And I was denied all of that. And attention, affection, love. And I was denied all of that. And so yeah, like I remember in college, because again, hyper ambitious. So I was like president of my sorority and I was like Dean's List, this, that, the other. So my success in college made me visible to guys

who were like, oh, you know, yeah, she's the one. And so yeah, I was like, oh my God, he's paying attention to me. And I even tell people, I'm like, oh, you know, yeah, she's the one. And so yeah, I was like, oh my God, he's paying attention to me. And I even tell people, I'm like, look, a lot of times we're shocked when beautiful women end up in crazy relationships. But it's because that physical beauty is not a proxy for emotional wholeness.

You can be physically gorgeous and emotionally damaged. So yeah, I was in all types of relationships with guys, got cheated on, the guy I thought I was gonna marry before my husband, cheated on me, got a girl pregnant, like just all the things because of what I assumed was my lack of worth. So I almost like, I would make myself accessible

simply because they acknowledged me. You know? Like I didn't have the standard that wait a minute, no, I'm fearfully wonderfully made. I'm a royal priesthood, peculiar people. None of that. I'm just like, oh, you want to spend time with me? Okay.

Okay. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. We talked about something that I'm in therapy as well and my therapist just she broke something down to me called the mother wound and I had never heard of that

terminology. I was like what is that? And she's like when you think about it she says the mother is normally the primary caregiver even if you do have a mother and father in the home. And whatever that mom is going through during those early childhood development ages, those are the way the child reacts to love or get out my face or I don't have time. They pick up on those patterns at a very young age and that's how they carry on to all their relationships until they realize, wait a minute, this isn't right. And I was 30, when did you introduce me to Delaney?

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Choose love, choose L. When I was 40, started seeking therapy and starting to unpack all this stuff. Like literally. I'm like, wait a minute, you mean to tell me I ain't got a man because of this? Oh my, like mind blowing. The things that I've been developing since a kid.

They did not to blame moms but that is a scientific factor like that is a person that really develops that relational emotion that you have with people and you carry that through your whole life until you either you had a good foundation or a bad one then you like a minute, I gotta rethink some things. You know what? It's like, you said something at the very beginning of your comment that I think is important, which is you had never heard of mother wounds.

Never. Because we assume that's impossible, right? Like, because our mother, like, that's our source of life, right? Like, we would not be here had it not been for our mother. And so the idea that that primary caregiver would wound us is like almost inconceivable. But because it's inconceivable,

I believe it is so damaging. Like father wounds, yes, they're damaging. Absolutely. This idea that our father's like, oh, you're not my child. And yeah, that's damaging. But when your mother says she didn't want to have you, when your mother chooses somebody else over you,

when you're not good enough for your mother, like there is something that happens there that is damaging. I did a therapy session in December where I went up to Ohio. It was like this three-day soul care intensive, really powerful. And girl, it. Soul care.

That sounds, yeah. It was so good. The psychologist did an exercise where he took me back in my mind's eye to an experience that happened to me when my mom, I was nine years old. My mom and her boyfriend were arguing about something in the living room. I didn't know what it was, because I was in my room reading.

She called me out to the living room. I didn't know what it was, because I was in my room reading. She called me out to the living room and asked me a question. I didn't have contact for the question, so I just answered it. Apparently, I guess I answered it the way her boyfriend did, I don't know. She lunged at me, started strangling me.

I started to lose consciousness. I don't even remember how it stopped, but I remember getting up, running into my room, going into the closet, I locked my bedroom door, I closed the closet doors. I remember sitting on a pile of dirty clothes next to the hamper, crying myself to sleep. Psychologist, I had not thought about that experience

in decades. He did an exercise, took me back to that moment. And what I realized is that that was the moment, that was literally the moment when I became an entirely different person. Because that nine-year-old self, it's almost like I locked her away because I was like, I can't be you.

I can't be vulnerable. I can't trust anybody. And so there was a part of me, like that part of me that was able to just trust and be vulnerable that was in that closet still. And he had to take me back like that part of me that was able to just trust and be vulnerable that was in that closet still. And he had to take me back to that and he helped me realize that wound was still there. Still there. Everybody's like, oh, you're so strong. You know, you're just unflappable. You can be in conflict, high conflict situations and you're the coolest person in the room.

Well, it's because that nine-year-old self was locked away. That part of me that was vulnerable and free was locked away. I didn't know it. At the hands of my mom, the person who gave me life, it's about to take my life. There's no way to experience that and be the same after that.

But I never connected the dots. Anything changed. I just thought life went on. Oh no, life doesn't go on after things like that. You change. It does not, you do. And it's crazy you said that he took you back. That's the same thing my therapist did

when we started just trying to break down like why I am the way I am and figuring out where these behaviors come from. And as I started to unpack it, like it goes all the way back to childhood. And I was like, oh my goodness. And the things that we remember that we've suppressed they come back so vividly like you remember every instance and it's like sometimes the people who did it don't remember they're like they're like oblivious to it you're like you know and they blame you for it like why are you bringing

that up I didn't do that literally that wasn't me what you talking about why would you say it I didn't do that. That wasn't me. What you talking about? Why would you say it? Okay, I'm crazy. Are you like, why would I make this up? Right. Yes.

That's so true. Oh my goodness. So through all of that, Nona, what led you to ministry? Because you are the founder of Nona Jones ministry. You and your husband lead the open door church. What led you to like, I know at age of 11

is when you got into church and you started studying for yourself, but what made you say, I wanna dive deeper and spread this to the world? Well, what's funny is it was never my plan to like be a preacher, travel, any of that. What essentially happened was, so at the age of 17, I was licensed

into ministry. That was the service that my mom came and brought a boyfriend to. I knew that I had a call to teach. I knew I had a call to teach the Bible. I loved that. And so at the age of 17, I got licensed into ministry. Now I thought I would just maybe teach like youth Bible studies or maybe like once a year, maybe preach for the church or whatever. But fast forward to, I think this was maybe 2018. So I'm working for the company formerly known as Facebook. And as the head of faith partnerships, I would get invited to speak at like church conferences, like church technology conferences. And I would go and I would speak about how to use technology for ministry. But

the thing about me is I only know one way to talk in those settings. Because I am a preacher. And so I would literally be like, and the technology, the algorithm says. So people would be in there like, okay, this is different. She's passionate. So people would be in there like, okay, this is different. She's passionate. Yeah. Right, right.

Yeah. So technology. Technology. Hallelujah. And so what would happen is, I would have, so pastors would be in the audience, like different churches. And so people like would start just inviting me to speak at like conferences or even speak I would have, so pastors would be in the audience, like different churches. And so people like would start just inviting me

to speak at like conferences or even speak at their weekend service or something. Like you need to come to church. Yeah. And so I was like, okay. And so I just kind of did it. And then I just started to get like more and more invitations to do that.

But again, it was never my thought. As a matter of fact, at my own church, I really wasn't even speaking at my own church because at that point I was on a corporate track. I was senior executive in different companies and things. And so I wasn't around here like, you know, I'm gonna preach and I'm gonna do, God just started to open the doors.

And even now I look and I'm amazed. I'm like, Lord, what is this? But one thing God told me, and this was at the end of 2023. So I'm still on the team at U-version, but God actually had me step down from my role because he said, I have called you to be a light in dark places.

He said, the Bible app is a light in lit places. Oh, I have called you to be a light in dark places. He said the Bible lab is a light and lit places. I have called you to be a light in dark places. That's it. And it's suddenly all made sense where it was like, Oh wait. So all this time I've been in leadership in these companies where I've been bringing the witness of Jesus into boardrooms. I've been bringing the witness of Jesus into spaces

where he not, he would not normally be. And it's like, oh, now it makes sense. It's like, so I am literally bringing the witness of Jesus in places where people don't expect him to be. That's the calling on my life. And so I love that I get to preach and teach and do all these things. And at the same time, I'm also bringing the witness of Jesus into the workplace, into business conferences, into leadership spaces. I'm speaking at a conference tomorrow in Texas, which is like a group of like business women, executive women entrepreneurs, where I'm going to be talking about the light and the hope of Jesus. You know, I'm going to be talking about business strategy and all that. But I love how you can merge it. I love that.

Exactly, yeah. So that's how it happens, child. The algorithm. The algorithm says. Yes. You need a poster this time and this time. If we turn to Instagram, chapter. Yes, girl, yes.

We need her on the team. That is too funny. Oh my goodness. Well one of your many titles, you're an author and you have written three other books, Killing Comparison, Success from the Inside Out and From Social Media to Ministry, The Globally Acclaimed Guide to Digital Discipleship for Churches. At the top of the year, everyone is trying to clear their slate,

and they have all these different goals that they wanna do. These three books, I would recommend everybody to read. For sure, but can you tell why each of the books will be helpful for their 2024? Oh, sure. So, Success from Me Inside Out, I wrote that. That's my memoir. So I'm just sharing my story, who I am, how I became who I am. So I

talk about the trauma. I talk about the role that forgiveness has played because the really what kind of catalyzed that book is I, at the time I was working in politics. Really? And yep, I was leading. is I at the time I was working in politics. Really? And mm-hmm. Yep. I was leading. We got a lot in common. You were in the politics. I worked on the Hill. That was my first job out of college for the Senate. Wow. Come on. Yeah. We got a whole lot in common. Yeah we got the girl. Yeah. We do. As you're talking I'm like, check. I was at, I was at, this was under the Obama administration. I was at a White House function. And there was all these like influential people there. And I remember I was in the room and the president, first lady were over there and I was looking at all these people. And I had this thought, I was like,

I should feel like I've arrived. Like I should feel like, like full. I feel empty. And I was like, if this is all there is Lord Mm-hmm. Is this all there is to success is just being in a room where everyone knows of you, but nobody knows you And so I went back to my hotel room that night and prayed and

that's where I went back to my hotel room that night and prayed. And that's where success from the inside out came from because I opened up the Bible and I went to Joshua chapter one and the book of Deuteronomy ends when Moses dies. I literally just finished Deuteronomy this morning. You did? Promise you. Okay, so you go to Joshua next? Yes.

Come on, Holy Spirit. Come on now, dwell in this place. Come on. It's one of my favorite books, Joshua 1. What happens is, so Moses dies, Joshua becomes the leader of the children of Israel. God basically pulls Joshua to the side to give him some instruction for how to lead them

in a way that would be successful. And in Joshua 1,8, God tells Joshua, he says, meditate in the law day and night, observe to do all that is written in it, then you will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. When I read that, the idea of good success was so paradoxical to me

because we think success is good by definition. Yes. Right? Yes. But what God helped me to realize is there is a success that isn't good. Because you can talk about it, check all the boxes and be overwhelmed, be depressed, isolated.

Right? No, seriously. But like everybody's looking at you and they're like, that's what I want. You don't want this Would you tell me that you seem you seem anxious I'm like I am so like I had to literally tell my even this morning Breathe. Thank you God for this breath. Thank you God for this day not asking for anything. Thank you. Thank you Thank you And then like just get diving in the word and when I say so much peace came over me, I was like, okay. And literally God was telling

Joshua at the end of Deuteronomy going into, I was like, oh my goodness. Okay. This is what I have to do. There is a success that isn't good. And, but, but when, when God said, meditate in the law, do what it says, he said, you will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. So the idea that if you do what the word of God says, that you won't even have to be like, Lord, I hope that you'll favor this, you'll make your way prosperous because that becomes the guardrail.

And so I wrote success from the inside out because I was like, Lord, I want good success. And I realized success begins within. Like there is nothing you can accumulate around you that will fill a deficit within you and so you can have all the stuff. Mm-hmm. Cars, the houses, the clothes. It doesn't fill anything. As soon as you buy it two days later you're like, listen, like why did I buy it? Why did I buy it? Where's the receipt? What's the receipt? Dang it, I got some makeup on it.

I didn't even use this. I'm like, ah. It's true though, and you know, having worked for the world's largest social media company, I do have to say this, we end up comparing our reality to other people's fiction. Come on now. Like.

Say that again. I just called it. I was like, I called it and then hit me. We compare our reality to other people's fiction. Like people make these posts that they're just so happy and everything is so great. And so then we look at that and we're like, that's what I want. But what you don't realize is they are depressed. They are stressed out. Girl, I remember one time there was a girl, this was years ago. I used to follow her account. I admired her because she was always like fashion. She was doing the thing.

And so somehow I got in touch with her one day because she was always wearing like the high fashion expensive stuff. I got in touch with her because I was doing a conference. I wanted her to speak at it. This girl was like, oh, you know, I'd love to do it, but I actually got evicted from my apartment and I'm staying with a friend.

That morning, she had posted a picture of herself showing the red bottom heels, the Chanel bag, this, that, and the other. And I, it's like, it's like the veil fell from my eyes. I was like, oh wait. Oh, how bad? People can post what isn't even real? Honey, people will post in fake houses.

We learn a lot. Wait, not the Airbnb. Airbnb with a mattress on the floor. I'm like, but you was just in Milan. The math is not math. And you literally are looking like, oh my God, I want her life. She is living a life,

not knowing she's sleeping on the floor. You don't want that. I had a situation where, cause you know how people slide into your DMs, right? Have a situation. Who's actions out. Oh, we know. Oh, we know.

Guy, one of the people slid into my DMs and I'm one of those people, I'm like, look, I'm married. Like I don't play that, right? But he started to talk about his wife, how he was leaving his wife. And it like piqued my interest because I was like, really? I was like, well, why? I was like, why?

He was like, well, you know, she just, I'm just not happy and things just aren't working out or whatever. And I was like, interesting. I was like, well, have you talked to her about the problems? And he said he had, but they weren't going to therapy because of whatever. At the same time that he's saying this, he's posting Woman Crush Wednesday. Of her.

Yes. And so I'm sitting here and I'm just like, the reason why I bring that up is because again, we feel this pressure to live up to a lie. We do. It's like, no, no. So success begins with it. And that's why I wrote that book. That's so good.

No, so success begins with it. And that's why I wrote that book. That's so good. No, so good. Killing Comparison came out of a similar situation where one day, this was back in 2020, I had a full calendar of speaking engagements, two books coming out, and everything got canceled, of course, because of the pandemic. And I went on to Instagram one day. And this was when everything was canceled. All my events were canceled. went on to Instagram one day. And this was

when everything was canceled. All my events were canceled, went on to Instagram. And a friend of mine made a post that she was speaking at this huge virtual women's conference, there'll be 10s of 1000s of women. And I saw the post and I was like, Oh, that sounds really cool. Why scroll down a little bit more. There was another friend who said that she would be also speaking at this huge virtual women's conference. I was like, okay, scroll down a little more. There was another friend who said that she would be also speaking at this huge virtual women's conference. I was like, okay, scroll down a little more.

There was another friend speaking at it. Oh wow. And another friend. And everybody's speaking at this but me. Why am I not there? You hear me? So I started clicking on their profile. Cause I was like, well, how many followers

they have a comparison to me. Yeah. Like I started clicking on their website. Where else are they speaking at in comparison to me? I want to know why I wasn't invited. I was like- Get out my business and get off my street. Get off my couch actually,

cause I don't like you attacking me like this. Cause I'm guilty. I am guilty. Go on. You wanna know? I don't like how you do my business though. I was like, I wanna know. I was like, why was she invited?

Why was I not invited? Why was I overlooked? As I was asking all these why questions, I heard the Holy Spirit say, no, no, why was she invited? Why was I not invited? Why was I overlooked? As I was asking all these why questions, I heard the Holy Spirit say, no, no, why does it matter? Why does it matter? I'm guilty, I'm just being honest. I've done that. How'd she get that?

Right? How? How? How's way? What? How? How's way? I was so confused. I was like, Lord, but I, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. And then he says, look, look around. Why does it matter? Right, like look, look. But that idea of toxic comparison, where I see somebody else's win is my loss. I see somebody else's win is my loss. I see somebody else's success is my failure. God helped me to see in that season that I was insecure.

And if you would have told me back then in 2020 that I was insecure, I'd have been like, no, ma'am. I said, do you see what I've done? Do you see what I've accomplished? Do you see what I have? And God was like, you can be the most handsome, the most beautiful, the most popular, the most wealthy. You can be the most powerful person on earth

and still be insecure because security is not a function of your self-esteem. It's a question of what your identity is secure to. What's your identity secure to? That is it. And if it's secure to anything that is subject to other people's approval, opinions, evaluation or assessment, you'll be insecure.

People's opinions change like the current of the sea. It is, you are so right. My Lord, you are on my street as PD says. You're on my street, I'm like, you have my business. That's where it came from. But that's so good. And that's so true because so often it doesn't matter who you are.

It's just human nature to at some point kind of be like well how is that happening for them and not for me you know and I have to check myself and I and I always remind myself God has blessed me beyond measure and everything I've asked for he's like literally blown my mind and when I've allowed him to lead me and just take the lead it's more than I could have ever imagined you know and I always try to be cognizant and aware to make sure that that comparison doesn't turn into jealousy and envy because that's when it gets dangerous. Yeah.

Yeah. That's when it gets dangerous. Well, and it's one of those things where we have to guard against it. Like there's never gonna be a point where you're just gonna be like, I'm just so happy for everybody that has more than me. It's so great. Like you're never going to be there.

But what I had to learn to do, and I kind of outlined the process in Killing Comparison is I've had to learn to celebrate others' success. Yes. Like actually celebrate it. The through line in that book is, you know, we all know about Saul and David, right? How Saul was jealous of David and all that. But there's actually a third person in that story that never gets talked about, and that's Saul's son, Jonathan. So Saul, king of Israel, David, this young shepherd boy, Jonathan is next in line to be king. What we know is that Saul's jealousy of David was triggered because when they both returned to town from a battle,

the people were like, Saul has slain his thousands and David has tens of thousands. And so it says from that moment on, Saul eyed David, he became jealous. Jonathan overhears the exact same song. Like he's in the exact same vicinity. Instead of as the next in line to be king, him becoming jealous of David,

he walks over to David, gives him his weapons and his robe. This is the guy who's next in line to be king. Hearing the people celebrate this guy, he becomes David's best friend, his champion, his defender. But what I realized is that although not a lot is said about Jonathan, Jonathan knew, his defender. But what I realized is that although not a lot is said about Jonathan, Jonathan knew God for real. Like if you read first Samuel 14 and six, I think it is,

he goes and fights a contingent of Philistines by himself. And he says this, he says, "'Nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, "'whether by many or by few.'" So he wasn't intimidated by people's celebration of David. He celebrated him too. He was like, go forth. Because if God is for you, who can be against you?

And we'd have to have that mentality. Yes, that is so true. One thing that I tell all my friends, when you see something happening for someone else, clap for them. Especially if like, say we're friends. We're friends now. Yes, yes, yes. And I see something amazing happening for you.

I'm in your neighborhood. You know, it sounds like the Passover. We both got the, he ain't gonna pass me by. You know what I'm saying? You right there. I know if you got it, it's coming next to me. Whatever it is, I'm asking God for it. It may not look the same,

but a lot of times in friendships, we can be like, mm. She thinks she all that. No, you think she all that. That's the thing. Cause she is. Cause she is. Cause she is.

She is. So I look at it like when I see someone succeeding, I see that as a receipt for what's possible for me. Amen. That's the word. It's like, oh, she got, okay, so it's possible. It's possible. Amen.

Yes. And clap for her and him, whoever. I don't lose anything. True story. Two weeks before Killing Comparison was supposed to come out, this was in 2022, a friend of mine was releasing a book. She was on all the major news outlets, Today Show, Good Morning America, MSNBC, all these things. People were talking about her book all over social media and the enemy started to say, see anybody gonna buy your book? Nobody's gonna have you on their programs.

So look at that, she's getting all the shine. Don't nobody care about you, just that and the other. I went over to my computer, I went to Amazon. I bought her book. I went over to my bed, I pulled a pillow off the bed. I knelt on it, I prayed in earnest for her. I said, God bless her. I want you to exceed her expectations,

blow her mind, take this message to the far corners of the earth. I got up off the pillow, I texted her, my sister, I am so excited for what God is doing. I am praying for you. I am rooting for you. When I hit send on that message, I said, take that devil. Because you are not going to have me over here thinking that somehow her win is my loss. There's only so much attention that can be given to something.

I was like, if God is for me, I know that I will be fine. Two days later, my publisher reaches out and was like, oh yeah, good morning America, it's to interview you. Come on Jesus. And what God told me in that moment is he said, this is not about you. This is about you understanding that if I can trust you, there is no limit to where I will take you.

You heard that in the North? That was good. If I can trust you. If I can trust you, there is no limit to where I will take you. You heard that, Denora? That was good. If I can trust you, If I can trust you, there's no limit. There's no limit to where I will take you. Oh, you are blessing my soul this morning. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

We talk about social media and how we're always comparing ourselves, but we also share a lot on social media. You share your family, your fitness, your health regimen, skincare, all the things. Something that I struggle with is, you know, opening up more on social media. I'm super private.

I try to give them just enough to make them feel like they're a part of my world. Just a little spoon. A little teaspoon, that's a small, yeah, a teaspoon, not a full world. Just a little spoon. A teaspoon, that's a small yet, a teaspoon, not a full tablespoon, just a little bit. But what would be some of your advice just to kind of help manage that and balance that because it can be such a cold world with the comments

and people having an opinion about everything. And you're just trying to share your light and just inspire people through your life. And that's all I'm trying to do. Even from, I post my workouts and I post what I'm eating just so they can see, oh, she's eating healthy. Let me put this cheeseburger down

and go get a acai bowl or something, you know? But how do you manage that? And what kind of advice would you give for me and other young women who are on social media and want to share more but are a little reluctant? Well, I think you're being wise, first of all. You're being very wise because you're being intentional about what you're sharing.

Like you're trying to inspire people, which I think is beautiful. Yes, people are people on social media. All right. Do you deal with that too? Of course. Girl, let me not post a clip of me preaching because here come the first Timothes.

That's tougher night. A woman to preach. Like, y'all, this is my platform. Why are you here? I suffer not with a woman to preach. Like, y'all, this is my platform. Why are you here? You know what I do. But anyway, yeah, people are people everywhere. And so you're gonna have some people who are like,

oh, she thinks she does that. It's like, whatever. I think just having a heart to inspire is great. One of the things that God has convicted me about is when I'm posting, where is the glory going? Wow, that's good. So, okay, when I post this, is the glory coming to me? Or is it going to God?

Perfect example, I forget which book it was. It might have been Killing Comparison. My publisher told me that it got put in Target, which is apparently really hard for spiritual books or whatever. And so I made a post about it. And 10 minutes after I made that post, God said, take it down.

And I was like, why? And God said, because your heart was to draw attention to yourself. Like, look at me. I'm a target. I made it in Target. Yes. As opposed to what I had done.

Wow. And so I would give that as just a principle. The heart posture. Yeah, the heart posture matters. And so the question is, what's the goal? Is it to inspire other people? Yeah. And here's the reality.

Some people are gonna have a problem no matter what you do. Yeah. And here's the reality. Some people are going to have a problem no matter what you do, right? Because that's their heart. Yeah. Social media, I think social media exposes insecurity, but it's not the source of it. Because two people can look at your post working out. One person could be like, I'm going to the gym.

Another person could be like, oh, she thinks she fine. Yep. Yep. She know too much. She's showing too much. She know what? Tell what? What?

I mean, workout. It's always something. Yes, so I would say just have that heart, the heart to inspire, that heart to encourage. And just guard it because that platform is a ministry. There are people who are watching, there are people who will read into things. And so yeah, I would say don't share it all.

Don't share it all, but you're doin' fine.'re doing fine. Okay, I think now that I have you here Something I struggle with just as an actor and I've talked to PD and I'm pastor Shemeika about this Just being an actor and the characters that I portray and who I am in real life and then wondering if I Do struggle with wondering if acting and the characters that I play are pleasing in God's eyes or if he's judging me for the character that I'm playing and who I am, or if it's the same thing. And he's like, you shouldn't even be doing that because you're my child.

And then a part of me is like, but that's like, I'm portraying something that really happens. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know if I'm making an excuse, but I'm like really, I struggle with that. And you know, my family is super supportive, but also struggling like, God is it squeezing in your eyes? And am I doing the right thing?

And so I just want to get some insight on that. How do you feel? So this may be controversial, but the way that I've learned to live my life is that when I have the question, that is the answer. Yeah. So it's, listen, when I have the question, it's because there's something on the inside of me that's like, that's where the question comes from.

Because if there's alignment, I won't even have a question. It's like, we good. So it's something to just lean into. It's like, okay, okay, I have this question. There's something there. Is there a change I need to make? Is there something that I need to tweak

so that I can be in alignment? Because once the question is answered, you will have perfect peace. Yeah, that is so good. I wrestle with it. I know, I know it's so hard, because it's like Lord, ah. I feel like it's like you blessed me with my dream

and what I wanted to do, but now it's like as I'm on this walk and trying to, I really, I'm trying to bring people closer to God, you know, in the dark place. You know, social media is a dark place. I'm on this walk and trying to, I really, I'm trying to bring people closer to God, you know, in the dark place. You know, social media is a dark place. Acting is in Hollywood is a dark place, you know. But that's where I think also discernment is.

It's like, Lord. Hey kids family, it's time to celebrate Black History Month at the Walmart Black and Unlimited Clock. One at Flatiron Plaza in New York City, one at Ovation Hollywood in Los Angeles, from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. with giveaways dropping every hour on the hour. It's the perfect time to try, like, and share black lead products. It's free, that's right, and it's for everyone.

And it's your chance to see how you can level up your daily routine with black lead products that are creating a new world of choices at Walmart. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. That's why I said, what's the tweak? Is there a tweak I can make? black lead products that are creating a new world of choices at Walmart. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. That's why I said, what's the tweak? Is there a tweak I can make? Because you darkness, we are called to the light in dark places. Like I think many times we get so comfortable in light, but light don't

need light. It so don't. So it's like, all right, Lord, how do I, how do I carry light into this dark place so that it's not extinguished? What do I need to do? Again, is there a tweak I need to make? Is there a change I need to make? How do I make sure that I am set apart so that people are drawn to me? So I'm not common. I'm not familiar. I'm not just another one of those. It's like, oh no, we need to go talk to Crystal. Cause like you can tell there's a difference there. And figuring out what that is and the discernment of God will make it clear for you.

Thank you. Sorry, I just feel like I have to ask. Because the other thing is that there would, the platform that you received as an actor afforded you this ministry. Wow, you're right. Cause I'm bringing everybody that I... And that's kind of what we were talking about.

Who was on the couch? Prevy. When she was here, I said, I see that God is bringing like a lot of people that he has like risen to a high platform back to Jesus. Like it's almost like he's like, I'm gonna use you for this. You gonna, this is what we're gonna use

to get to bring people to me. And like they're denouncing what they, I'm not, like who was it? The big singer, Latin singer, rapper that just gave his life to Christ and he's not singing anymore. Oh, he's about Daddy Yankee? Daddy Yankee.

Yeah. Like I see things like that. I'm like, God you are. And then Kat Von D also apparently renounced all her witchcraft and all that stuff. And she's team Jesus now. But but it happens because of intention. But I think that's why this conversation is good because it's like, all right, Lord,

you've given me this platform to be a witness for you. How do I do it? That's our word. Because what happens is I've seen this happen to this may be controversial as well. We pray for things and we're like, I just wanna, I wanna give God the glory. Then we get the platform and we become darkness. Yes.

Ooh, no, no. That happens. That's so true. Or we can also start worshiping the platform more than they do the one to be. The provider of the platform. The platform, that's it. Yes.

Like how do I keep the platform? It's like, well, if it's his, it's's not for you to keep I was literally making my bed this morning and That's how that cuz I just finished reading so like the Holy Spirit was talking to me and God said You continue to talk to me and I talk about me and spread my word if I would draw all men unto you And I would put my pillow out there I was like if anybody's out something like is she okay? Like I literally hit me. I was like, if anybody's out there, I was telling them, like, is she okay? Like, I literally like yelled. I was like, ooh, okay.

I felt that because sometimes you feel like, okay, I gotta keep this like cool. I gotta make it cool so people will still wanna, you know, tune in. How can I still be me and praise Jesus at the same time? And it's like, you know, I'm struck. I'm just being honest and transparent. Like I struggle with that because there are things

I'm working on my mouth. I curse, you know, I was doing a live with my friend the other day. And you know how like when you with your friends, like you might get another piece on the other side that you might get on here. And she was like, should I delete that? I said, yeah, cause I was saying broke niggas a lot.

I was like, that is not of God. And I was like, listen, I said, that's why I didn't collaborate with you. Because I said that is not on brand and I need to work on that. I said, so let me work on how I talk to my friends too. You know, so that like, it's not a switch. You know, just being transparent y'all. But I do, I struggle with it.

And I do, I know my heart posture is for God and I want to give him the glory. And but being caught up in two worlds, trying to find that balance. But that was good to Nora, that acting created this platform to give him the glory. And I'm not saying that this is the case for you, right? Because only you and God know what your acting journey is meant to be. Yeah. But I think that in general, sometimes we're so attached to what, but you made me an actor. You made me an actor. You made me an actor.

So you think that that is the destination. Yeah. And for some, that just might be a part of the journey. Like there might be just somebody that God says, I'm gonna make you an actor so that you're on the number one cable television drama every week. So that millions of people come to you. And then when they come to you, all they see is a light of me.

That is so relevant because I think, like I just said, God told me that I need to step away from the day to day at UBern because he called me to be a light in dark places. I got asked, so in a few weeks, I'll be at the Black Enterprise Women of Power Summit, right? Which is a business, it's business women, women of power. And they've asked me to preach a message, right? Why?

Because I'm a business woman. Yes, yes. Like they're not asking me because I'm a preacher. I'm a business woman who happens to be a preacher, right? And so that platform created the opportunity to bring the witness of Jesus into that space. So I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. There is something that God has done in that platform

that he wants to use for his glory. And now it's just about discernment. It's like, all right, Lord, how do I do this well? Yeah, we're in church right now. We're doing 40 days of fast and we're in seek season. And it's funny, because pastor Darius McClure preached on Sunday. And one of the things he told us to do was to make sure that we let squads that are not

for us die, like the circle that you have around you. So he was like, if somebody tried to come in and they're not talking about what you're talking about, tell them Moses is dead. Like, where we going? You can't go telling Moses is dead like we're going where we going out you can't go Moses is dead. So every time my friend would say something about she was like girl cuz someone said girl Moses is dead. I was like they can't come where we're going and it's crazy we left church and my brother's in the car and he said Marquis he said he had told one of his friends all the

things that he was fasting from and she she was like, you doing all that? Like, that's a lot. Like, you giving up, you doing too much. And I said, what you're fasting for is between you and God. And I was like, I said, and he's like, you know what you're right because I started second guessing what God had told me to give up. And I said, you can't do that.

Literally as we're having the conversation, one of our directors from the studio calls me and he's known for writing really dark films. And he's like crisscross, that's what he calls me. What you doing? And I was like, nothing much. I said, just leaving church. And I said, he said, what are y'all doing?

I said, we're actually starting a fast today. He said, ooh, I need to do it with y'all. He said, God has been tugging at me. And he was like, I'm telling you, he said, I've had the worst week. He said, I'm so glad I called you. So what y'all. He said, God has been tugging at me. And he was like, I'm telling you, he said, I've had the worst week. He said, I'm so glad I called you. So what y'all giving up? And I said, well, whatever God puts on your heart.

And he was like, I'm gonna do it with y'all. Send me the devotional, I'm gonna do it. And I said, that's the type of people you need in your squad. Like people that are like instantly like, ooh, I wanna do it with you not, you doing too much. And it was like, and he literally, Marquis said, oh my God, he said the way God just like literally like

affirmed what we were talking about in the middle of the conversation, we both looked up and said, oh, that's how you do it? Okay. Okay. I want to see how again in the acting, you are bringing God into it. That was an, oh my, I missed it.

I missed it, wow. That was another moment where I brought somebody in. This is a studio executive who's calling you and you're having a conversation about God and you're having a conversation about what God called you into and you are now having one individual fast because of a conversation that you had

when he was calling you about something completely different. Who knows how God's gonna work through that? Oh my goodness. Who knows what God's gonna do? But because you stepped into that moment and you were not ashamed. Cause you could have easily been like, oh yeah, we just heading home.

About to go get something to eat? Yeah, go get something to eat. What you doing? Pull up. No, this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing, yeah. Oh man, yeah, I've been having, and I will say this, you know this, I'm not in Hollywood, but it's like, there's so much pain.

There's a lot of wealth, there's a lot of notoriety, there's so much pain. And people are trying to fix that pain with things that will not fix it, whether it's drugs, excess, whatever. You have the answer that's in you. That's Jesus. Like you have the answer that everybody is searching for.

Yes. So God is literally sending you out as an emissary, as an ambassador. And the key is to represent him well. It's like, Lord, I want to represent you well. I don't want people to be like, she's a Christian? Like, I don't know. I want people to be like, oh yeah, no, she's a Christian.

She's a follower of Jesus. That's the goal. It's like, God, give me wisdom so that I represent you well in these spaces. Thank you, Nolan. That was, thank you, D'Aurel. That was good. Y'all really just like gave me so much peace

and I know what I need to do. Yeah, I got it. You knew. I do. You already knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me what you think about why, because you know. Because you know. Because you already know. That is so funny. I was having a conversation with someone else and I want to pick your brain by this as well. This is like talking to like a open table talk. I love it. So I was actually having this conversation with Deval about different religions and as a Christian not judging people for what they believe in. And I had made a comment I said I dated a Muslim when I was in

college and my parents were like you should not be unequally yoked. They started quoting scripture and I was young I was like whatever. But that was the one man probably to this day that like loved me the most and that I just felt so loved by. And when people ask me like, who was the one that you feel like just loved you the most? And I was like, it was God, but he was Muslim. And we didn't, I, when the conversation came up about having kids, it was like, are we going to raise our kids Christian or Muslim? This is where the unequally young comes in. It's like, I didn't wanna deal with it. So we ended up breaking up,

but just an amazing human being. And when I started looking at different religions, I realized that most, I feel like it was put in place for some type of structure in different regions. But also the common goal is to treat people right in most of them. And so I don't judge people for what they believe in,

but I know what I believe in. I proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. I believe he died for our sins and rose from the dead. I believe all those things. But am I wrong for like, as Christians, like, because some people are like very condemning, like you shouldn't like believe in, I just feel like what you believe in, what you believe in, that's not my business. How do you feel about that? Yeah, no, I believe that our job is to be a witness

for Jesus. And so what that means is if we get into conversations, and mind you, when I was the head of faith partnerships at Metta, I mean, I'm working with like, Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, like Christians. And so my respect for every person is at a human level. And when we would have conversations about belief, like I'm unashamed to say that I'm a believer,

I'm a follower of Jesus. This is the gospel. This is why I believe it. It is not my responsibility to convince someone that my faith is the faith. It's simply my responsibility to be a reflection of who Jesus is in the earth. I have had people of other faiths

choose to follow Jesus after seeing a message that I preached or something like that. Not because I was like, you're wrong and you're going to hell if you don't believe this. Right. No, no, I'm just here to be a witness and the Holy Spirit does the work. Yes. Okay. That's, that's the answer. I wanted to make sure I had the, cause when I said that I was like, I hope I'm not offending anybody. Did I say that right? Cause you start thinking like, we're talking about other religions and I just don't judge anybody for what they believe.

But I know what I believe. And I love that you don't force anybody. I'm not trying to, you need to believe in Jesus or you're going to hell. God doesn't work. I have examples, like literal examples of people in other parts of the world, Muslim majority countries,

where we're like, and missionaries can't even get into these spaces to proclaim the gospel of Jesus, where people are becoming Christians because they are being visited in their dreams by Jesus. I have stories like that. There's a story of a woman, I forget which part of, she might have been in India,

living in a country where literally you will be murdered. Like we think we get persecution because people disagree with us here in the US. No, no, no. You become a Christian, you die. So this woman, she was visited in her dreams by Jesus, accepts Jesus as Lord of her life. She has to go to Egypt where her sister is,

another Muslim majority country. She has to go out of her country to another country to find a church just to worship with people. She already was saved, but she had never been in a community of Christians. Yes, and that's important. Yes. And so that's why I'm like, I don't think it's my responsibility to badger people into the faith.

I just need to be a witness and be unashamed of the gospel. And I think that's a problem too sometimes with Christians and people who are struggling whether to believe or not is that we don't live, we're not a good witness. And we're like, you know, people are like, I don't want to have nothing to do with y'all got going on. Y'all are judgmental, y'all are hypocrites. Like they don't want to be a part of it, you know? But I feel like people like us are making people see that,

no, this is a great community to be a part of. I want to be on Team Jesus. And I will say this, I have found that the most judgmental people tend to be the people that have the most to hide. The people who are like, ah, ah, ah, are because they're deflecting. They are.

Yeah. On your topic of, you you know the comment that you said About you know your ex being Muslim. Yes Then What are your thoughts on If she would have married this Muslim as a Christian woman As a Christian woman. As a Christian woman. Cause do you see that? I know there are people, Christians and Muslims that get married, but how does that work?

Cause I know I went to my former church when I was in New York, one of the pastors married a Jewish woman and she ended up converting. And so when I hear things like that, I often think about first Peter 1-6, where it's like wives, by the way of your example, let your husbands be saved.

Essentially, I'm paraphrasing. But is it even OK to enter into a marriage as Christians with someone of a completely different belief? Yeah, it's hard. And it's hard because you have to almost imagine putting yourself in his shoes. Let's just say that he's like, I love you in the back of his mind. He's like, you're going to be Muslim. Yep.

And that's what Muslim are. She's going to convert. She's going to convert. It's okay. We love each other. It'll be fine. She'll convert. And so that's the challenge. And she gonna convert. It's okay. We love each other. It'll be fine. She'll convert. Yep.

And so that's the challenge. And she's probably thinking the same thing. I feel like I can get them to convert to Christianity. Yeah, I can get them to change. No, the way that I approach marriage, and this is even outside of religion, it's just in general, is... Now, I know financial stuff can sometimes feel confusing or even overwhelming. But listen, you got this. And guess what? Our good neighbors at State Farm are here to support Black women on this journey.

They understand the importance of financial empowerment in our community. I mean, here's the thing, it all starts with knowledge. We got to figure out where our money's going, right? So for the next week, let's challenge ourselves to track our income and expenses. There are tons of budgeting apps and resources available, but even a simple notebook can do the trick. Knowing where your money goes is the first step to taking control. Next, let's build a budget. Remember, financial security isn't about deprivation. It's about making your money work for you.

Allocate your funds towards your goals like that trip you've been dreaming of or starting your own business. Don't forget to set aside some money for emergencies too because life throws curveballs and you have to be prepared. Now debt happens. I know we hate that word but it happens. But don't beat yourself up about if you have some. The key is to manage it effectively. There are resources available to help you with debt consolidation and repayment plans. Talk to your bank or debt consolidation and repayment plans. Talk to your bank or financial advisor and they can guide you in the right direction. And finally, let's invest in our future. Even small contributions towards a retirement savings plan can make a big difference down the line. I mean think about it, a secure future where you

can travel the world, spoil your grandkids or finally write that book. You have to be able to accept the person as they are when those vows are exchanged. Yeah. Without any expectation of, oh, well, they're going to change this, they're going to change that, they're going to change this. Because what you do is you set yourself up for disappointment. Which is why the Bible probably says you shouldn't be unequally young because they already know the problem is going to create. Yeah and then listen I will tell you it is it is more likely that the person won't change than that they will. Yeah. The probability is higher that they won't because you married them right so it's like apparently I'm good enough for you to marry so why would I need to change? So that would be the challenge. It is hard.

It can happen, it can happen, but you have to basically take religion off the table. You can't even just talk about it. And that's a big conversation to not have. It is, it really is. You pray five times a day, you have your seasons of the year that you have certain things you have to do,

and your family is Muslim too, and now they're looking inside eye at me because I'm not doing the whole Yeah, it's just it's hard. Yeah my other one is Speak going back to the topic of judgment and things like that How do we find the balance between How do we find the balance between not being judgmental and allowing others to, through our example, come to Jesus and see Jesus

versus still having to speak truth? Oh yeah. Which is a big thing right now, right? We were offline talking about a lot of what's happening even on the pulpit right now. And so, and I know I've heard other pastors literally preach on stage against what's happening on other pulpits, which I'm like, yes, that needs to happen.

Like we continue to sweep things under the rug. And so what is the balance between the judgment and the speaking in truth? Speaking up, I see what you're saying. This is a good question, because we are absolutely called to be bearers of truth. And at the exact same time and to the exact same degree, bearers of love.

And what typically is missing is love. Like we are all about the truth. We'll get up there and we'll preach against what's happening at somebody's church. We haven't reached out to them. We haven't made a call. We haven't done any of that. And it's really a question of motive.

So my prayer every day is Lord, let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable in your sight. It's the why that matters. It's the why. Am I telling you this because I want to be right or am I telling you this because I love you so much that I want you to be right? That's the difference. There's a huge difference and people pick up on that. It's like, so basically there's a difference between condemnation and conviction. In the absence of love, truth is condemnation.

But when we add love to truth, it's conviction. Because the thing is, it's like, okay, what you're doing is not God's best for you. It's very simple. Like, I love you so much that I want God's best for you, and this isn't God's best for you. So I think that's the difference. It's just the love.

It's like, I want, I want to see reconciliation. I want to see restoration. This isn't about you're wrong, you're going to hell. This is, oh, you know what? This isn't God's best. Let's talk about how to make sure that God's best is evident in your life. And I love you that much.

Yeah, exactly. I love that. That's good. So your life. And I love you that much. Yeah, exactly. I love that. That's good. So I want to talk about when you said that you were saved at the age of 11, but when you went home, you were still being abused. As a child, how did you come to understand, this is the God that I'm growing to love,

but this is what's happening at home? And cause sometimes that would like make people lose faith. How did you keep your faith during that time? I was blessed to be able to be in community with the church. So my mom did not go to church with me, but like either my friend's mom would pick me up and take me to church or to the youth Bible studies or the youth pastor would pick me up

and his family would take me to church. And I truly believe that was my lifeline. Like I looked forward to Wednesday nights because I would be in community. I knew that people would care. They would love me. I would have dinner. We would laugh.

We would tell jokes and play games. And then on the drive home, my heart would just drop because it was like, here we go. I never knew what I was gonna walk into. My mom could be going off. Who knew what would be happening? But that was my lifeline. And that's why I'm a big believer in community.

Like when we're experiencing pain, sometimes we will isolate ourselves. And we'll be like, well, you know, I don't want people all over my business. It's like, this isn't about that. God said, it is not good for man to be alone. He didn't say it's impossible. He just says, not good. Yeah. So that's that was the

lifeline for me is being in a community of people who love me and care about me. That made the difference. Made it bearable. That's good. Community is very important. The people you have around you are so important. Yes. I agree. Thank you for sharing that. Of course. Yeah. All right guys, so it is time for my favorite part of the show, Positive Outcomes, where you guys write in and me and Nona are going to give you advice. Hi Crystal. I don't know where to find my joy. I don't know the last time I had it or where I lost it.

I'm looking back to see if it was a decade ago, two decades, or I just never had it. I'm turning 30 soon and I have no real true friends, but I have been friends to many. I give, I help, I shelter, and I know I'm turning 30 soon and I have no real true friends, but I have been friends to many. I give, I help, I shelter, and I know I'm blessed. I find myself at an empty well, and when it fills up, even just a drop, I pour into others, so much that it starts to anger me. I can't say no. I can't not help others, but I'm drying out.

I can say that when the well is at least halfway full, I'm happy. Why? Because I get to pour more and more. However, when it's low, I'm feeling back empty again. I know I'm blessed. They say joy comes in the morning, but I can't find it. I'm single because I'm scared of being used again.

And I'm not as confident as I used to be. I stay home and work. I don't do anything outside of that. And I need to find my joy. Can you please give me some advice because I can't seem to get out of my own way. Well, we just talked about when people are feeling down, they like to isolate themselves and that's you stay at home and you work. Um, whoo, no, no, I don't get this into you because you are the expert. Finding joy.

I don't know if I'm the expert, but I do have some thoughts. So it sounds like not knowing the person. It sounds like there is almost this sense of vicarious validation in taking care of other people. It's, and what it really is, when we get our sense of validation from taking care of other people, it's that we want to be needed by other people. And so when you kind of click into that,

the question is, what made you feel that you are replaceable? That you are worthy of being discarded, like what actually happened that made you think that unless I do this I don't matter, like I'm not needed. I think that there needs to be some excavation of that because that is one of those, that's like a heart setting, which is if I don't do this, then I'm irrelevant. When in fact, we know that before you were formed

in the womb, we know that God decided you were necessary for creation. So that's not something that I think another person's need of you can validate. That's really a decision that we have to make, is that I actually have worth Regardless of whether people feel like they need me or not I would suggest before running into a fire to save somebody

Allow them to just smolder for a minute Because what that does is that helps you to see whether or not they actually are your friend. Sometimes when we show up immediately, when somebody says they need us, it's almost like they become used to us and like what we provide, but they're not necessarily our friend. And so just listening to how she described it, it sounds like she's there for everybody else, but they're not there for her. So she's being used.

And as long as you don't see the worth that you have, you will let people use you. And so I would say that there's some foundational heart work that has to take place. It's like, why do I believe that unless somebody needs me, I don't matter? Those are some questions I would have her ask herself to really get to the root of what's going on. That is so good. Thank you for that. You blessed me in that

too. You said something there in home. I appreciate that. I hope that helps you. Next we are going to do what I'm going through and what I'm growing through. And I guess we can touch on what I expressed. I am going through growing closer to God and also trying to figure out how to balance my career and my walk. So that's what I got the answer today. I got the answer. What are you going through and growing through? Ooh, I think I am, well, what I've been going through and what I'm coming out of is as God has really blessed the ministry that I have, the enemy has been like attacking my marriage in very interesting ways. And this is not something we talk about,

which is why I wanna talk about it. Planting thoughts and seeds and imaginations. My husband and I on a weekly basis have to literally sit down and like talk about, okay, what are the thoughts? What are the imaginations? What are the resentments? What are the things like, because on a weekly basis, it's almost like,

and we see it, like there's so many scandals happening and all these things happening because people get out there and there's resentments in their marriage that are not dealt with. There's all types of things that are not dealt with. And so we sit down on a weekly basis, like, all right, what thoughts is in me

planning in your head about me? What resentments are you holding? Vice versa. So that's going to be continual though. I know that. As the Lord continues to do what he's doing, enlarging my territory, I know there's a target on my back. The enemy would love nothing more

than to create drama and chaos. So going through, that's just gonna be repetitive. I know that. Growing through is, I am in a season of surrender. Truly, you know, when I stepped off the team at U-Version at the end of January of this year, I stepped into a new role, which is global ambassador. So I'm like representing them,

but I'm not doing the day to day. That wasn't my desire. Like I loved what I was doing. I loved the team I was leading. I loved all that. God called me away and told me that that's what he wanted. And even though I didn't understand it, as soon as I said yes, I felt peace.

Wow. It's like, I was like, I don't wanna do that. I don't think that, I don't wanna. And I just had this anxiety and it's just like, I was just anxious. Yeah. As soon as I said yes, I had peace. Wow.

And so I'm learning surrender. Like if, that's yes, I had peace. And so I'm learning to surrender. Like if, that's why I said, the question is the answer. That's what I'm learning. It's like, the fact that I have this question, that is the answer. And so I'm just like, all right, father, I'm gonna surrender. Whatever you choose to do, wherever you call me.

If you say no to this thing that I have my heart set on, the answer's no. If you say yes to this thing I I have my heart set on, the answer's no. If you say yes to this thing I want to do, the answer's yes. That's what I'm going through. I love that. That's so good. All right, we're going to end the show with Keep It Blank, sweetie. And for this one, I'm going to say, I'm going to take the it out and say say keep that discernment, sweetie. Yeah, because yeah. What is your feeling the flavor?

Keep it Blake, sweetie. Oh man. I would say keep it fun, sweetie. Yeah, I love that. Just keep it fun, sweetie. We just be too serious sometimes. We do. Just keep it fun.

Enjoy life. I love it. It's shorter than we think. I love it. Thank you so sometimes. We do. Just keep it fun. Yeah. Enjoy life. I love it. It's shorter than we think. I love it. Nona, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to write into our open listener letter, please write it to keepitpositivesweetie at gmail.com. That is Sweetie with an I-E. If you want to follow me, tap in at Love, Crystal or Nay on Instagram and all the platforms. Nona, tell the people where they can find you. You can find me on all the platforms at Nona, not Nora.

I am not Nora Jones. Even though if you look me up in Google, I will have her net worth. I am not a Grammy Award singer songwriter. At Nona, not Nora or a nonajones.com. I love it. Thank you so much. All right, guys.

In the meantime, in between time, you know what to do. Keep it positive, sweeties. See y'all next time. Father, we're so grateful to be here this morning, God. We just thank you for the gift of life, the miracle of life, recognizing that there were many people who laid down last night, God,

with a full agenda today, Father, and they did not wake up. So we just thank you, Lord, for the gift of life. I'm grateful for this moment, Father, that we are gathered here to have this conversation. I pray that you will lead it, and I pray for everyone who will watch it, God. May they receive encouragement, Father.

May they even have answers to questions that they've had in their heart. Maybe they've been wrestling with insecurity. Maybe they've been wrestling with discouragement and doubt. Father, I pray that they would receive those answers, Lord, and that their hearts would be turned toward you. I also pray, God, for this entire team, God recording it, God editing it.

I pray, God, that you will bless the work of their hands and their hearts and continue to favor this podcast because it's a ministry, God. It is a ministry. I pray God that you will bless the work of their hands and their hearts and continue to favor this podcast because it's a ministry guys it is a ministry I pray it will go forth in your name we pray in Jesus name. Amen. There you have it these are just a few steps to build financial security. And remember, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Not just with insurance, but also by supporting resources that empower Black women financially. Head over to statefarm.com to learn more and find a local agent who can guide you on your financial journey. Keep it positive, sweeties. And remember, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.