Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Cine-world cup, 1984: the BEST film of the best year for cinema, evs

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

This week we put all the heavyweights from cinema’s best year – 1984 – into the ring, and see who comes out victorious. Think Terminator, Dune, Stop Making Sense, Beverly Hills Cop – I mean, there’s nowhere near enough space to list them all. But who will win...? Mark also gives his take on the re-release of Amazing Spiderman 2, with future Oscar-winner Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield in the lead roles now. Mark explains why we’re getting so many of these films back in cinema, too, for those wondering... We hear his thoughts on the new Netflix big hitter, KAOS, featuring Jeff Goldblum, everyone’s favourite piano-playing god. Plus, we review Paradise is Burning, a touching Swedish comedy drama that follows young Laura and her two sisters who, without their mother there, run amok until a call threatens to put them in foster care and undo the unique life they’ve built for themselves. Mark has some big decisions to make. Film of the week, plus film of the year (alright, 40 years ago, but still...) Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!): World Cup of 1984 Qualifying – 7:46 Amazing Spiderman 2 Review – 11:27 Paradise is Burning Review – 29:11 KAOS Review – 38:20 World Cup of 1984 Final – 49:18 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, Simon, I've been thinking about the great collaborations of cinema. Do go on. Well, John Ford and John Wayne, Francis McDormand and the Coen's, Hanks and Spielberg. NordVPN and Take listeners. Thank you, Bodden. Oh, you know what I'm talking about. This is a subscription to NordVPN. It's essential if you want to access all your TV shows and films on streaming services from

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description box. Convinced Mark? It's like Eastwood and Leone all over again. So on with the show. Well, a happy August bank holiday, Mark. Yes. Does it not have a better name than that? Or is it just August bank holiday? I believe it's the August bank holiday. I mean, it isn't in Scotland, but it is in England, Northern Ireland and Wales.

Scotland has their August bank holiday earlier on, but also in August. So I guess the August Bank Holiday bit still works. Here, I've got a great, as far as ideas that are never going to fly, I've got a good one, which is related to the Bank Holiday Act, which was passed in 1871. So this August Bank Holiday is the only bank holiday which is not tied to an Anglican religious festival. It's just, let's have a day off. Okay. Well, surely it must be labor related in that case, is it? No, it's not.

It's not? Okay. No, it's just a thing. Yeah, it's just a thing. And in 2014, Conservative MP Peter Bone tried to, he had like a private members bill going through parliament. He tried to get the August Bank holiday renamed Margaret Thatcher Day. Can you imagine?

I mean, I appreciate that she is revered in conservative circles, but the very idea that across the UK, everyone says, what are you doing for Margaret Thatcher weekend? And you say, oh, I'm going out, out, out. I had absolutely no idea about that. Sorry, that was a better joke than you gave it credit for. You say, what are you doing on Margaret Thatcher day? You say, I'm going out, out, out. Well, that's a joke for Trotskyists, I think, and former Trotskyists. It's a non-political joke. It was just, you know. I don't think it is. It's not a non-political joke. It was just, you know.

I don't think it is. It's not a non-political joke, is it? Yeah, because it doesn't have any relevance now. But if you revere the memory of St. Margaret, then obviously you were being deliberately partisan. So I was being deliberately objective. When I was at Manchester University in the 1980s, I got into the lift at Owens Park to go up to the 10th floor and a guy got into the lift wearing flared jeans, a

sort of Parker-like thing and a badge, a vintage badge, which said, stop the war in Vietnam. And it was all I could do to stop myself from saying, I've got good news for you. That's very good. But there are only certain wars that people like the person you're in the lift with, there are only certain wars they want to stop, just some wars. They're honest. There are a bunch of wars that they're quite happy with. By the way, just breaking news for you, Mark. The Margaret Thatcher Day bill failed at the first reading, so it didn't even get past the first thing. Anyway, happy Margaret Thatcher Day, Mark. Thank you.

We're the only people talking about this. What are you up to in this particular podcast? Reviews of the new film Paradise is Burning, the re-released film The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and on Netflix, that will be for home viewing, Chaos, K-A-O-S, which drops on Friday. Is that kind of very anarchic? Is that why it's spelled like that? It's a Greek gods thing, you know. Okay. Why does that, spelling it like that, why does it make it Greek gods? I don't know. Maybe that isn't that a Greek gods thing, you spell everything with it. I don't know, it's either that or it's a punk record.

Anyway, talking more about our summer World Cups. The World Cup of 1984 movies kicks off in a few moments time, as well as this. All episodes are ad-free for the Vanguard. We've got Mark's best and worst of the year so far dropping tomorrow. That is Friday, the Friday of the bank holiday weekend, this being the Thursday. Recaps of? What are you going to be recapping then in that little review section then, Mark? Well, the good, the bad, and the ugly recapping then in that little kind of review section then, Mark? Well, the good, the bad and the ugly. So on the one side, Zone of Interest and all of us strangers.

On the other side, Madame Web. And you get ad-free episodes of Ben Babysmith and Nimone's Shrink the Box. So if you are already a Vanguardista as always and as ever, we salute you. You're doing it on purpose now. Oh yes, by the way, thank you very much for all the reviews because rather pathetically, but as every podcast you've ever listened to asks to be rated and reviewed with five stars. I've done it myself.

We don't really do it on this podcast just because we are almighty anyway. But anyway, we've had our first entry. Excellent. Is it just the one? Is it? Yeah, yes, absolutely. It's come flooding in. Thank you. The flood of letter. And it's somebody called Foodie 2017, so automatically it's a Putin bot. Anyway, five stars.

Quote, listening to Kermit and Mayo's take is like discovering a perfectly chilled bottle of champagne in your podcast feed every week. The banter between Mark and Simon crackles like popcorn in a microwave minus the risk of setting your house on fire. Simon is the audio equivalent of a warm cup of tea on a rainy day. I'm not entirely sure. That's the most enthusiastic review I've ever had. While Mark's legendary rants are so fiery, they could strip the paint off a Hollywood executive's Tesla. Together, they serve up film reviews with a side of pure unadulterated joy. Five stars, this podcast deserves its own constellation.

It's the kind of show that makes you wish your commute was longer or the traffic jams lasted forever. You'll find yourself cackling and reevaluating your Netflix queue faster than you can say hello to Jason Isaacs. And that is from Foodie 2017. Can I call you Foodie? And you thank you Foodie. Keep them coming. Bonus points, if you can squeeze in these three words into your review. So Mark, we gave this test to Jason to actually insert the phrase into a TV show that he was filming. We asked him to put in the word ukulele and he ended up at a crime scene looking at the hand of a victim saying he won't be playing the ukulele in heaven.

Yes. When you go to heaven, do your inadequacies, do they carry on? I mean, are you asking me that because as a Methodist, will you have hay fever in heaven? Will I have eczema in heaven? I think all those things fall by the wayside, don't they? There's that lovely thing at the beginning of A Matter of Life and Death when he wakes up on the beach and he thinks he's in heaven and the first thing that happens is a Labrador runs up and he goes, oh, dogs. I always hope there'd be dogs. If

there's anyone who can help us from a theological point of view, I mean obviously it's all just guesswork, but unless you actually know, in which case can you inform us please on the finer points of theology when it comes to heaven? Can I just say I love the way you just caused a massive theological ripple by saying if there's anyone who can help us, therefore referring, therefore referring to the, you know, to people who believe very strongly in work. Study these things. And then you went, of course, it's all just guesswork.

Well, it obviously, I think even the people who feel very strongly would admit that they are the person. No, I think the people who feel very strongly think it isn't guesswork. I think the people who feel very strongly think it's anything other than guesswork. I mean, they're wrong, but you know, what are you going to do? Well, my father used to always quote the bishop of somewhere or other. He used to say, the belief in a specific knowledge of God is a terrible thing, sir, a very terrible thing. Anyway, bonus points. If in your five-star review you can squeeze these three words, which Mark is now going to choose randomly.

I know we're asking for a lot, so we want a fantastic review. We want five stars and to include these words. Gang of four. Why does it have to promote your work? I'm not the gang of four, I'm the gang of three. Yeah, but by inference, obviously. Anyway, that's this week's test. So the World Cup of 1984. Thank you very much indeed for helping us out. It was a fantastic year. I am obviously disappointed that in the round of 16, Amadeus, which had beaten the Killing Fields, lost to a nightmare on Elm Street, which gave us the quarterfinal lineup was Ghostbusters against Terminator, Dune against the Nightmare on Elm Street, Beverly Hills Cop versus Footloose, and the Karate Kid against Gremlins. So they were the quarters.

So into the semis, so the Ghostbusters against the Terminator was won by Terminator. Dune versus Nightmare on Elm Street was won by a Nightmare on Elm Street. Correct. Beverly Hills Cop versus Footloose was a victory for Beverly Hills Cop. Although I am a Footloose fan. Karate Kid versus Gremlins was a win for Gremlins. Excellent. Excellent.

So our semifinals, Terminator against the Nightmare on Elm Street. Tough one. I mean, quintessential 1984. Tough one. And then Beverly Hills Cop versus Gremlins. So what would you have expected to happen? So, Terminator against Nightmare on Elm Street, what do you think would have happened there? Well, my vote would have been Nightmare on Elm Street, but I understand that probably

the popular vote is Terminator, isn't it? Yes, correct. So, Terminator won and through to the final. And then Beverly Hills Cop playing Gremlins. If it's anything other than Gremlins, I'm packing up shop and James King is taking over. Well, it's Beverly Hills Cop. James King, he's a sigh of relief. No, actually it wasn't.

It was Gremlins written by Chris Columbus, which I didn't know until I was checking. And Howie Mandel is the voice of Gizmo, a Canadian comedian who's still with us. But anyway, that's where we are. So Joe Dante's Gremlins against The Terminator. That's the final. How do you see it? Top analyser Mark Kermode. I would go for Gremlins, but I think it will be Terminator. And that's absolutely fine because those are two absolutely banging films. How do you see the battle playing out?

I see some people voting for one and some people voting for the other. I think that one of them will have more votes than the other and that one will be the winner. But as long as they play through half time and they've just got it. The problem is they didn't score enough goals. It's a Terminator 2, which is this huge, great, big, incredible. One of the first times we saw some of those digital effects, the idea of the liquid metal and all that stuff. Our minds were blown. Our minds were absolutely blown. But no, Terminator is still an absolute gem. Yes. But I'm just wondering if it becomes a better film because of Terminator 2.

No. What I'm saying is I always thought it was genius. I got from my very good friend Nigel Floyd for one of his significant birthdays, an original Terminator poster at the point that nobody really understood what Terminator was. And it's, yeah, no, it's a work of genius. I got a Terminator 2 leather jacket with T2 embossed on the back and I gave it to my sister who was head teacher at the time. And I think even she now has had to stop wearing it because, you know, what with being ancient and everything. I had a very cool thing. I had a Terminator 2 leather jacket with T2 embossed on the back and I gave it to Child 2 who left it in a car in Manchester. And guess

what happened to it? It got stolen. Yes. There you go. Okay, so we'll update you as that match is playing out right now. Terminator versus Gremlins. It's difficult. I think it's going to be close, I would have thought. It will be close, but I suspect it will be Terminator. Okay, so you mentioned Spider-Man at the beginning, so explain why we're doing all the Spider-y based You mentioned Spider-Man at the beginning, so explain why we're doing all the Spider-Rebased stories. Essentially what's happening is that they are reissuing all the Spider-Man movies. Before, we were talking about the Sam Raimi movies. Now, we're on to the second series, which is Amazing Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man 2. Basically, all the Spider-Man movies are

Man 2. And then, so it's basically all the Spider-Man movies are back in cinemas. That's how it's working out. So Amazing Spider-Man 2 is this week, which was originally, I didn't know this at the time, the working title of Amazing Spider-Man 2 was Amazing Spider-Man Rise of Electro, which considering- Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And if you remember, Jamie Foxx as Electro was basically the sort of the least, one of those characters that didn't really land anyway. It grossed 709 million worldwide, making it the ninth highest grossing film of 2014, directed by Mark Webb, who made 500 Days of Summer before doing the two Amazing Spider-Man 2 movies. So, Toby Maguire and Kirsten Dunst in the first series, now Andrew Garfield,

who won a Kermode Award for social network and Emma Stone, before Emma Stone became the biggest star in the world. Here they are together in action. What about you? Why are you here? Harry. He's dying. What do you mean? He's dying. And he thinks the only thing that's going to save his life is my blood, is Spider-Man's blood. As far as I know, if I gave it to him, he could kill him. Or something worse. This is the maintenance closet, Gwen. This is the most cliched hiding place you could have chosen.

Oh, I'm sorry. This is the stupidest hiding place. I didn't take us to is the stupidest hiding place. Take us to the Bahamas of hiding places. That's the quietest clip. They're hiding. They're really glad to stop and go, hang on, put their shopping down, turn it up. What is that? They're in a closet. That's the thing. That's the way it's working. So anyway, Jamie Foxx as Electro, as I said, Dana Hanna as Green Goblin again, also Paul Giamatti, Felicity

Jones. So look, on the downside, two hours, 22 minutes long, whatever, is way too long. There are way too many pot strands. This is the standard Spider Man movies issue, isn't it? There's always too much going on. One of the problems is that Spider Man can essentially fly at this point. He's Superman. I always have this thing that the thing that makes Spider Man interesting is his vulnerabilities and the thing that makes Superman uninteresting is his invulnerability. But when you've got to the point that Spider-Man is basically Superman, it's much less interesting than it was when he was kind of awkward Spider-Man. On the plus side, I did like Andrew Garfield in this role, and I think the stuff between him and Emma Stone is really well done and kind of plays out properly.

And I went back to my original review of it, and I had taken Child 2, Child 2 who left the T2 jacket in the car in Manchester. Thanks for that. And then lost it forever. And then lost it. Unless the police found it. No, they didn't. Oh, no, they found the car, but they didn't find the jacket. Wow, that tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the car and the quality of the jacket. That's right, keep the jacket, but lose the car. And at the time, and bear in mind this was 10 years ago, Child 2 loved it on the basis that it was really emotional and it had a proper emotional core to it. I do remember that being the case at the time was, okay, the film has a proper emotional heart

and the relationship between the two central characters is well done. The problem is that there's so much else going on that you kind of lose that. This is almost, I think, one of the classic cases of the thing that goes wrong with franchise movies is that you've got the thing that you really like and that you're really interested in, which is usually kind of sort of fairly small scale. But the problem is that when you've got all these other things going on, all these other plot lines, all these other villains and set pieces and that, then you've got the center of it, a relationship you care about, but you kind of don't care about the other stuff. And I think that's the problem with Amazing Spider-Man 2. If it had been,

if it had been a sort been a more compact movie with less of that other stuff in it, I think it would have been a better film. But it's still fine, it's still fun. It's still 142 minutes long, which it doesn't need to be. And I do think the Jamie Foxx electro stuff was like. I've forgotten that character was even. Yeah. Well, doesn't that tell you everything you need to know? The character who was originally the subtitle of the movie, Rise of Electro, you'd even forgotten was in the movie. Why? Because no one cares. So he didn't rise very far, did he? Really, as far as the rest of us.

Well, Jamie Foxx had a career that went on to rise, you know, very much, but just not in this particular role. As did Andrew Garfield. As did Andrew Garfield, as of course did Emma Stone. She's, I think, at the moment, she's, she of the three, she's the biggest star. I think Emma Stone is probably the biggest actress of her time at the moment, yeah. I think she's, I think she is the Meryl Streep du jour. Okay, thank you. We'll be back in just a moment right after this.

This episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. Mubi is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked. Now, Simon, you are a literary fellow. I am a doctor of letters because it was one of those Warwick University... Buy one, get one free. Yeah, put a hat on, wear a cape. Well, you will be delighted to hear about the latest issue of Mubi's Notebook magazine. Notebook is a print-only magazine that's devoted to the art and culture of cinema.

Created, prepared and published by Mub, comes out twice a year and a yearly subscription includes a surprise just for Notebook subscribers. And shipping is always free. Issue five, a do-it-yourself themed edition is available now with a beautiful cover designed by How To's John Wilson. Try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermode and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Well hello there, Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed.

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Listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to get your job's more visibility at Indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. That's Indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Indeed. And more Spider-Men as they wander our way. Now, you may recall we had a listener from Wittertainee Andrew Jacobs who wrote, Dear Timon and Pumbaa, long-term listener,

occasional emergency mailer, writing to you from the Consultants Chapel. We're 30 years on from 1994 and the release of some classic and brilliant films. Earlier we were talking about 1984, now we're plus 10. As well as The Lion King, 1994 also gave us Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Leon, Forrest Gump, Interview of the Vampire, Speed, Four Weddings, Heavenly Creatures, Natural Born Killers, and Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Is this possibly the best year for film in the 90s? What might have been the best film of other recent decades? Love the show, including the production team, Down With the Stuff and up with the stuff and so on. So we ran a thing on Elmo Musk's social media hell site and we looked up the top 20 films of 1994

in our big book of top 20s and we asked for your input. So some are saying that 1994 was actually the best year for film eves of all time. So just to get us into the 1994 mode, you and I are on Radio One and I'm doing the mid-morning show and you are chipping in on a Friday with your very chipper film reviews done in two bands, as I recall. First band was New Releases and then the second band was VHS Releases, New to Video. Is that right? Yes, it was three and a half minutes for New Releases, all of them, including a clip and three minutes for video. For new films, yes.

No, no, no. New Releases was the first one, three and a half. Listen to me, I'm the person who did this, right? We had two bands. One of them was three and a half minutes long in which we reviewed all the new film releases, including a clip, an audio clip. And the next band was three minutes long in which we reviewed all the new video releases because it's the days before VHB, before DVD. Also on Radio 1, Blur, Oasis, Swade, Charlatans, Pulp, Shed 7, the Nobel Peace Prize, Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, and Yitzhak Rabin, it was awarded jointly. Nelson Mandela is the first black president of South Africa, the national lottery is launched. The Conservative Party led by John Major mired in sleaze, cash for questions, that kind of thing. The Downing Street Declaration

led to a ceasefire by both the IRA and loyalist organizations in this year and the channel tunnel was opened in May. So you're now completely back in the world of 1994 and the top 20 films of the year. In reverse order. I'll zip through these, but it's not bad. Top 20. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Cool Runnings, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Clear and Present Danger, Maverick, Miracle on 34th Street, Beethoven's Second, Philadelphia, Speed, Aladdin, Wayne's World 2, Pulp Fiction, True Lies, Forrest Gump, The Mask, Schindler's List, The Lion King, Top 3, Mrs. Doubtfire, The Flintstones, and number one, Forrest Gump, The Mask, Schindler's List, The Lion King, Top 3, Mrs Doubtfire, The Flintstones, and number one, Four Weddings and a Funeral.

Can we just say straight away, what is the great absence from that list? That would be Shawshank. Exactly. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, the film that was widely considered to have destroyed Kenneth Branagh's career. You remember he told us that he went on a tour in which wherever he went, people would say in different accents, so you have made the worst film in the whole world. How does it feel? Did better at the box office

than Shawshank Redemption. Shawshank tanked at the box office. It also came out in February 1995 in the UK. In that case, sorry, just completely get rid of all of that. But it is relevant because it is a 1994 release. It's been with us since 1994, but it came out in the UK in 1995. Anyway, Jonathan Faulkner, here we are, this is your comments. Totally agree with Andrew that it's the best year. Breaks my heart a little that my favorite film, Leon, is not in the box office top 20. That's true actually. Mark says a few titles that haven't been mentioned.

Carlito's Way, In the Name of the Father, Tombstone, Cronos, California with a K, like Chaos, and A Bronx Tale. I loved Tombstone. I thoughtos, California with a K, like chaos, and a Bronx tail. I loved Tombstone. I thought that was a fantastic film. Properly good film, yeah. My recollection, so that's Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliott, Bill Paxton. That's the time I interviewed Val Kilmer and I really, really liked him. Not only because he was very generous in the interview, but he plays Doc Holliday and he

went into great detail about the voice that he Oh, that's right. that he uses. It's a very, very distinctive, he said it's a dead accent, but it's an aristocratic Southern, Southern state. Yes, you're quite right. You're quite right. Yeah. And when you watch it back, you think, wow, what is that accent that he's doing? But it's not because he's bad, actually, it's because it's very particular and he's dying of, was it TB? Is that why he's, I think that's what he's, I think that's what's happening.

He's ill all the way through, isn't he? He's in very poor health. And I thought, anyway, I thought the film was great and I thought he was particularly good in it. But anyway, it's not in the 20s. Samuel Campbell says The Crow was the best film from 1994 in my opinion. James Walsh, I think everyone knows what should be on that list, but it didn't find success until later on. I imagine you're talking about Shawshank. Mike Torbett, well, apart from some obscure prison movie, The River Wild, I would suggest.

Someone who appears to be called tired and salty. Interview the Vampire just narrowly missed this list being released in January 1995. Shawshanks, again, 1995. Mid-90s was without doubt the best time of the decade for movies. Nick says The Hudsucker Proxy and Backbeat. Also, there are some great Hong Kong action films from that year, though of course they didn't get UK releases until much later. Fist of Legend, Drunken Master 2, I missed that one. And Wing Chun. Spoon Lamp, for your consideration. The Crow, Brandon Lee's last film, a superb Gothic horror revenge film. Ace Ventura cemented a generational comedic talent.

Do you remember how much you enjoyed Ace Ventura, Simon? Do you remember how much you laughed? It was the second one. It was the second one. The second one. It was Ace Ventura 2. When nature calls. And it did on a regular basis. Even though I didn't want to go to the loo, I just thought I needed to leave. Shallow Grave rock solid character piece from Danny Boyle. Yeah. And I hear Chungking Express is quite good. Yeah, Chungking Express is fabulous, yeah.

We asked you where you were watching your movies in 1994. Your beat, Mark, would be pretty much the same as your beat now, wouldn't it? All the elaborate and exotic screening rooms of West London. Yes, although it has changed because at that point in 1994, the whole of the film industry in London still was basically Wardour Street. This is Soho. So it was Wardour Street, Dean Street, Soho Square. And at a push, if you went to go to UIP, you went out to Golden Square. Nowadays,

Sony is out in Paddington and other people have moved to Hammersmith. But it literally used to be back in 1994. You could do a tour of every single film distributor in London within an hour. They were all on three streets. And get a massage in between if you got lost. Neil Graham was watching at Warner Showcase and Odeon in York. Digital Griff says the point in Milton Keynes. It was a UCI then I think. Kate Gam, the brilliant David Lean cinema in Croydon, birthplace of the man himself. Tired and Salty is back on. My childhood cinema, an old retro Canon cinema built in 1913 with just two screens, one small foyer, and you had to queue outside. It closed in 1996. Maybe that's why. John Duncan was watching it Wimbledon Odeon in the smoking section.

It's really not that long ago where if you wanted to smoke in a cinema, you had to sit on the left. Of course, that made so much difference. The smoke doesn't drift over it, just the smoke hangs. Yes. As I've always said, it's like the no-weeing lane in the swimming pool. It doesn't make any difference. Yeah. There's a Pizza Express near the BBC, the old broadcasting house building, alongside All Souls Langham Place. I don't think it's there anymore, but the smoking section in Pizza Express was by the front door. If you wanted a smoke smoke free table, you had to go further inside. But usually it just meant that the smoke wafted in. So that was utterly pointless thing really. Mike

Torbett watched in the Showcase in Coventry. We may have allegedly exited from a Sunday afternoon showing of speed and crossed the corridor to watch the River Wild, says Mike. I think there was a lot of that going on. Matt Mealy, a showcase cinema, East Lancashire Road in Liverpool. Clearly Pulp Fiction needs to be on the list, by the way. Okay, so they were the places that you were watching. I think there's enough action going on in 1994 to be our next World Cup once we've cleared the decks with the other voting procedures. It sounds fabulous. Can I just throw in a bit of truth? Because we were talking about

Shawshank Redemption and I said, oh, you know, it didn't do well. You said, well, that's because it came out in the UK in 1995. And I felt momentarily chastised. I'm just looking at the 1995 top UK grossing movies, Batman Forever, Star Trek, GoldenEye, Casper, Die Hard, The Vengeance, Waterworld, Braveheart, Interview with the Vampire, Apollo 13, Dumb and Dumber, Poker Haunted, Babe, Judge Dread, Jungle Book, Stargate, Disclosure, Murals, Wedding, Crimson Tide, While You Were Sleeping, and Outbreak, No Shawshank Redemption. So it really underperformed at the box office and then became a huge hit on video, one of the very first films in which that was the case.

And a few years later, this is probably the end of the 90s, there was one of those comparison pieces in the paper and they'd interviewed the chief rabbi at the time and the archbishop of Canterbury and they both said their favourite film was Shosha McDonn. I wrote a book about it for the BFI, which I think is being reissued because it's the anniversary. There's an organization in America called HollywoodJesus.com that reads movies as religious tracks. They were really fascinating on that. People took that movie to heart. It got people through difficult times. It's a really strange thing. Also, very good use of Mozart in that film. Okay, so let's do a review.

What are we watching here? Yes, so Paradise is Burning, which is a Swedish drama from Mika Gustafsson making her feature debut. She previously made documentaries. There's a film she made called Myphobia. Anyway, it's a documentary film going into she may call it, phobia. Anyway, documentary filmmaking going into fiction features. This is a story of three sisters, seven to 15 in ages, or I think they were 16, living together, but their mother has effectively vanished. She goes off for long periods of time, so they're effectively looking after themselves. They need to keep social services at bay because otherwise they'll be taken into care and split up as a family. Bianca Del Bravo is Laura, who is the eldest sister, and she has effectively become a surrogate parent to 12-year-old Mira and six-year-old Steffi.

So looking after them includes things like providing food, which involves shoplifting and teaching them how to effectively shoplift. The home life is chaotic, but there is genuine love and affection here in the same way there was in that film, Horde. And then with your member, we talked about Horde and I said, well, it's quite bleak from the outside, but it's, and You asked, does it have too much saliva in it? To which the answer was probably yes. But it's also, there is a real sense of this chaotic, but loving home life. Anyway, so Laura strikes up this unlikely friendship with Hannah, who is an older middle-class woman, who is fascinated with Laura's ability to be lawless, to break into

apartments. She says to her, what? Can you show me how to do it? She's got a normal life. She's clearly searching for something. This encounter with this young streetwise teenager seems to offer a window into another life. When they get into other people's apartments, they read other people's letters and they try on other people's identities. But the friendship also takes Laura away from her sisters and from her family who become resentful and abandoned. I thought this was great. There's some really, really lovely incidental material to the side of the main story. There's a neighbor who's a karaoke singer who's really nervous, who the middle sister sort of takes under her wing and starts to mentor him and become, she says, I'm going to be your agent now. There's a thing about another neighbor who sort of appears to be

begrudging but looks after them, gives them tampons and provides them with wine for a celebration at one point. Obviously, the story's got shades of things we've seen before. You remember Charlotte Reagan's Scrapper, which is a great film in which Lola Campbell plays a kid whose mom is absent. We did an interview for Scrapper. There's also something of the sisterly tone of that brilliant film Mustang, which I absolutely loved. Of course, behind it all, there's a shadow of Hirokazu Koriada's Nobody Knows. But this is very much its own thing. It was an award winner at the 80th Venice Film Festival, then played at the London Film Festival where it won the award for best first feature. And then it won a top prize at Sweden's Gullbagger, he pronounced it, awards. I mean, I thought it was really great. A great sense of vivacious life in tough circumstances,

really worth seeking out. It's called Paradise is Burning, which makes it sound darker than I think perhaps it is. Although it is a story about people in extremism in tough circumstances, it is in the end really about these people looking after each other and the ways in which they care for each other. It's got a really natural feeling to it. I thought it was really impressive. But you might have to travel. Well, it depends whether or not, like here, I'm five minutes away from the Newlin Film House,

so I won't have to travel, but it depends how near your local cinema is that shows art house things, not just Marvel movies. Okay, all right, that's paradise is burning. Now the ads in a minute, Mark, but first it's our special Margaret Thatcher weekend. Step into, she's got nothing to do with the jokes, by the way. Stepping into our laughter lift. You're going to start? Hey Mark, it's gone from bad to worse at home, I'm afraid. The good lady ceramicist, her indoors, has blocked me on all social platforms just because

my bird puns were driving her mad. Well two can play at that game. In fact, I bought a bird last week because it was going cheap. And do you know how many birds of the corvidi family stick together when they're flying in close formation? I don't Velcro. That's how what kind of maths do birds of the striga forms order like the answer of course, algebra. Now I can stop anytime but I now would be good mark I was in a restaurant in showbiz north london last week and a cormorant started complaining to the waiting staff apparently he had an enormous bill uh yes I have more which bird movie won an oscar lord of

the wings what you call a very slow bird that lives in russia wears a ponytail tinted specks and a goatee and beats beats you up with martial arts Steven Seagull correct okay it's time to stop they're good though Steven Seagull was good yeah some call me a wise quacker anyway do you remember your fabulous interview with Steven Seagull oh I can't he was so entertaining and he wanted to talk to you about his music. Yeah, I mean, that's how the interview had been arranged. He wanted to talk about the music. That's why he was on. It was a live interview, one of the worst interviews I've ever done. We should have sort of terminated it after five minutes, but he was just unspeakably.

I mean, who would have thought, you know, but he was just terrible. And now there he is in Russia thinking that Putin is the answer to everything. Yeah, so turns out we were right. We were right and nobody wants to listen to his music. Anyway, Mark, what is still to come, by the way? Still to come, Chaos, the new Netflix series spelt K-A-O-S. It's a Greek thing.

And the final of the World Cup of 1984 movies. Now, the following is an advert from Better Help Therapy. Do you feel like you still make time for yourself to learn? Actually learn something new, try out a new experience. Kids, they do it all the time. It's instinctive, but we lose that instinct as we get older. It could be anything. It could be taking up gardening, learning the piano. For me, it's probably via my kids.

They play me new music that I really need to hear because I'm listening to the same stuff over and over again. It's beautiful. So you can go back to school at any age and therapy can help you rediscover that sense of wonder that trying something new gives you. So if you're thinking of starting, why not give Better Help a try?

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Slate's podcast about internet culture. My guests and I are like your internet historians of the past, present and future. Fyre Festival as one of these monocultural internet events of the good, the bad and the truly unhinged. I would rather work at Walmart on Black Friday. From nuanced takes to trending stories to ones you wish you heard about. So an email here from Mel, a very old feeling millennial in York. Thanks very much for getting in touch. Dear Gingerbread Man and the Big Bad Wolf, my heart sank and then rose again and then

sank again at news that Shrek 5 will be with us in 2026. The original Shrek movie came out back in 2001, 25 years ago, come 26 obviously. It's the equivalent of a film coming out in 1976 having a fifth sequel, a quint-equal in 2001. Anyway, when will it end? Is this anything to do with the characters Gen Z and Gen Alpha meme revival? What is going on? Why does Gen Z love the green ogre? Most animations don't linger long in the memory, so why this one? It's even giving Smash Mouth some longevity. And I remember I used to play Smash Mouth It's even giving Smash Mouth some longevity. I remember I used to play Smash Mouth at Radio 1.

Smash Mouth, wow. You know, the Hey Now All-Star, that song, which turns up when Shrek goes to the toilet. Anyway, my younger cousin says metal in between talking about, now this is just going to show how old I am, is it Giats and Skibbidi toilets? Giats is what you say when you see someone with large buttocks or you're discussing someone with large buttocks. What? And Skibbidi toilets is a web series with human-headed toilets and people with electric

devices for heads. Are you not familiar with skibbidy toilets and giats, Mark? I feel like I've transported myself into another. What are we talking about? Anyway, these are the things that younger cousins of Mel is into. Giats and skibbidy toilets. Anyway, they absolutely love Shrek. They use the giant sexy Shrek filter on TikTok, which means that you can superimpose, I promise you I'm not making this up, a giant, provocatively dressed Shrek on your videos. You can use a filter that makes it look like whomever you're filming is being passionately kissed by Shrek. What is that? Was it that good a movie? What is going on? So that's the question, Mark.

Well, Shrek was good and Shrek 2 was good. And then it finished. I mean, that's the thing. Although it did. I remember, I interviewed the makers of the first Shrek and we had a conversation at one point. I said, the digital animation on the velvet on that dress is amazing.

And they said, that is literally like saying I was so uninterested in this in the story that I was impressed by the animation. I went no, no, no, I love the story and I love the jokes. But I was written back then we all forget this. We were talking about Toy Story the other day. We all forget how amazing that animation looked when we were young, younger. Mel, thank you very much for the email correspondence at Kerbenameo.com. Let's talk the Greek spelling of chaos, if indeed that's what we're talking about. Chaos. Yes. So, a new series which drops on Netflix Friday. Well, yeah, anyway, either

today or tomorrow, depending on what day you're listening to this. Mythological dark comedy television series created by Charlie Cavell, who is the British actor-writer best known for adapting the graphic comic series End of the F***ing World. This sort of does for Greek mythology what Baz Luhrmann did for Shakespeare in as much as it turns it into something as glossy and eye-catching as an episode of Miami Vice. It's set in a world in which gods walk among us and a fairly rancid bunch of gods they are too. At the top of the tree, there's Jeff Goldblum's Zeus, which I mean, I'm kind of on board already. Jeff Goldblum is Zeus, right?

Yeah, that sounds good. An almighty and invincible power who looks, walks, and talks exactly like Jeff Goldblum, because the thing that Jeff Goldblum does when he's playing God is he plays him as Jeff Goblem, because fine. So he takes advice to some extent from Prometheus, who's in the process of having his liver eaten by a vulture for all eternity, but he's pulled out of that on regular occasions for track-suited conversations with Zeus, who's lost his gold watch and he needs to know where it is. He takes advice from somebody who he's also having eaten. Janet Mateer, who was… You saw Ozark, didn't you?

Yes, I didn't watch as many episodes. I watched a few episodes, yes. I didn't love it as much as you did. Okay. Well, I absolutely loved it. Janet Mateer, who was fabulous in Ozark, is Hera, who is Zeus's wife, who honestly comes on like she could eat Zeus and everyone else for breakfast. Cliff Curtis is Poseidon, Billy Piper is Cassandra, David Thewlis is Hades, in this netherworld in which everything is in black and white, which is the inverse of… Well, is it the inverse? No, it's the same. It's taking its lead from Powell and Pressburger's Matter of Life and Death in which the afterlife, which may or may not be heaven, is in black and white. You also get appearances by Eddie Izzard, Killian Scott, Debbie Mazur. I mean, Uncle Tom

Cobbly. It is a big cast. It is a big sprawling drama. So the trouble begins when Zeus notices a wrinkle on his forehead. He decides that that may be a sign, a prophesied sign that his reign is coming to an end. He goes down to earth, he discovers that on earth all the humans are getting on well and they seem happy. He doesn't like the fact that they're happy because if they're happy and they're not fearful of the gods, then they lose respect for the gods. He wants people scared. He wants scared humans, particularly after a monument to the gods is desecrated with some graffiti and a huge pile of manure. Meanwhile, there were three humans who were

sort of interconnected unknowingly with an ancient prophecy that may be related to the end of Zeus' reign. They start to discover their connections on either side of this world and the next. As you can tell, it's eight episodes long. I've watched four of them, so I'm like three and a half hours in. It is a big, sprawling, multi-layered, everyone's in it drama of which there is much to enjoy, not least the fact that I just love Jeff Goldblum. Jeff Goldblum is being the most Jeff Goldblum he's been in quite a long time as Ux. I think Janet Mettier is fabulous. I think that the kind of gods on earth thing

actually weirdly reminded me of Xanadu. I'm sure that wasn't an aesthetic touch point, but there is something of Xanadu. If you remember, Zeus sends Zira down to earth to open a roll of disco. There is some of that going on. I only remember the songs. Now it's playing in my head. It is. A little John O'Bee. A place where no, anyway, fun. So whilst I was watching it, I did think I wish I knew more about the actual myths that this is drawing on. For example, if you've got somebody like Natalie Haynes,

I'd be really interested to know if somebody like Natalie Haynes who really knows this stuff inside out thinks of it. And I was very conscious of the fact that I know some of the names, I know some of the things, but I'm not really very up on the mythology. But it's very, very good ensemble cast. I mean, like a real rainbow nation of talent, admirably kind of forward looking, open minded narrative, good gags, looks good. All that's on the plus side. On the downside, and I'm finding it quite hard to get my head around this, I'm halfway through it and I am not yet gripped to the point that I can't put it down. I mean, if you think, and this is a bad comparison, but Baby Reindeer, I watched pretty much in one sitting because every time it ended, I just needed to know what

happened next. And I know that the same has been true of the shows that have really, really got under my skin. You do that thing about it's two o'clock in the morning. The multi-stranded plot is very multi-stranded, although it is all starting to tie up. By the end of episode four, the strands are starting to come together. The ambition and the scope is admirable, but, and perhaps this is appropriate for something called chaos, it is fairly chaotic and I would find a little more focus making it easier. The other thing I did think is I'm a film critic. I'm not a TV critic, although we've been doing TV here on this show. And it was one of the few times in which I thought, you know, I'm sort of slightly out of my depth because it may be that it's just because of the fact that I'm fundamentally a film critic who likes narratives to pan out over

a confined period, maybe I'm just not quite attuned to the rhythm of this. That said, we have watched extended series and I've got on with them and I'm enjoying this. I'm definitely enjoying it. I'm definitely going to go back and watch the rest of it. There are some really nice things in it, but it hasn't yet become essential to my life. And I was kind of surprised by that because I like the idea, I like the cast, I like the scope, I like the creator. I just, there's something that hasn't quite, the vulture hasn't quite bitten my liver yet. And I'm four hours in and I kind

of think- No, you don't want that. I mean, that would mean- No, no, but I was making- Being unspeakable agony. Well, yeah, although of course, you know, it's mythological agony, so it's not real. But you know what I mean? When you think this is good, there's loads of good things in this. There's loads of really interesting stuff in it. And it's really, firstly, I wish I knew more about the source material. Secondly, I really, really enjoyed all the bits that Jeff Goldblum were on. There

are little bits of the plot that I'm losing track of, that I'm kind of drifting in and out of interest in that particular thread. And I just think that after three and a half hours, it hasn't yet properly got its hooks in me. So it's fine. I don't know that it's great. Will they make, and let me see if I can get the intonation right, will they make cash from chaos? Which pistol was it who said that? I think that that's actually Tempold Tudor. No, because that line comes up in the song in which they're auditioning all the different people, aren't they? It's in the song in

which the song is the thing called Anyone Can Be a Sex Pistol, and each line is done by a different person. And one of the people is Temple Tudor, who then went on to be the sort of the replacement for Johnny Brown. But that all get cash from Chaos, although that line comes from is sung by somebody we've never heard of before. The line that picks up after that is Ronnie Biggs was doing time till he did a bunk. So I, that's why. Anyway, maybe it turns up in a couple of places. It was just a convoluted way of saying, do you think it's going to be successful? Well, it's yeah, because I think, look, hey, I'm no predictor of success or failure. I

mean, I think it's big, ambitious, spraw, loads of great cast members, very, very entertaining. I don't know that it's essential. I mean, I don't know that you can't live without it. Where can I watch it? Netflix. Thank you. Okay, Mark, thank you. Back in a moment with a very interesting Spider-iderman email. favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way.

Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio, pop culture moms, find it wherever you get your podcasts. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead. Family vacay? Reserve your ride as soon as you book your flights. To all the planners, now you can reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See Uber app for details.

Andrea in Budapest on the subject of Spider-Man, Dear Green Goblin and Dr. Octagon. And the title headline here is Spider-Man, We Don't Know How Lucky We Are. This summer's rash of Spider-Man re-releases has brought to the fore that eternal question. Is Spidey the Goat? G-O-A-T. So this is greatest of all time. Hard to argue against, says Andrea. No matter how many times we experience his origin story, it stirs something in us. Hugely important, social and cultural figure, Peter Parker is endlessly relatable. The every man's every man faces, as do we all, financial struggles, relationship woes, personal loss. With great power comes great responsibility, coined by Peter's Uncle Ben, encapsulates a core theme

that resonates universally, a timeless message which transcends cultural boundaries, emphasizing the moral duty that accompanies any form of power or privilege. Spidey's relatability extends to his superhero persona as well. His enemies are often symbolic of larger societal issues. For example, the Green Goblin represents the corrupting influence of power and wealth, while Doctor Octopus embodies the perils of unchecked ambition and scientific hubris. The series in its various forms have tackled racism, drug addiction, and environmental conservation. Spidey's story is a beacon of hope. It reminds us that heroism is not about infallibility or perfection, but about persistence, empathy, and the courage to stand up for what is right,

even when it is difficult. Spider-Man teaches us that anyone, regardless of their background or circumstances, has the potential to make a positive impact on the world. He is the GOAT. As we navigate the complexities of our modern world, Spider-Man's cinematic legacy continues to inspire and guide us, reminding us that we all have the power to be heroes in our own ways. You can keep your bat bloke, your boring flying man who can do everything, your shield wielding all American, Spidey's the one for me, you're sincerely Andrea in Budapest. That's a speech right there to be delivered at the Oscars. It's well argued. I'm glad that you brought up the point about the flying man who can

do anything, which as I said, is actually one of my problems with some of the Spider-Man movies. I mean, when I was a kid, Spider-Man was the comic book character that I was interested in because of all the flaws, because of all the outcast stuff. I think that is a very good argument. Is Spider-Man Anne Bush bugged? Have to see. Mason Hickman Okay. The World Cup of 1984. Thank you very much indeed for joining in with this. There can only of course be one winner. So if you remember, there was loads of fantastic film. Unfortunately, Amadeus sort of fell quite early. Broadway, Danny Rose is right at the bottom.

Cotton Club, Stop Making Sense, Passage to India, Nightmare on Elm Street, The Neverending Story, all these big films from 1984. But we got to the final and it was Terminator versus Gremlins. Yes. And Mark, you said that your vote would be for Gremlins, but you thought Terminator would win. Yes.

I mean, I think they're both great films, but I suspect that Terminator will have the winning hand. And indeed it does. Very, very clearly. 71% voting for Terminator, Gremlins 29%. So the winner of the 1984 World Cup of movies is Terminator at number one. And Gremlins are two. That's a good result. Will Barron It's a very good result. And it reminds me of the joke, which we've all heard, which is that the creators of Planet Hollywood get together,

and they're told that they're each going to have to make a movie about a composer. And Sylvester Stallone says, I'll be Beethoven and Bruce Willis says, I'll be Mozart and Arnold Schwarzenegger says, I'm not playing this game. It is very good. It's a timeless joke, even if it originates from 1984. Did he say it in Terminator 1 or was that a Terminator 2 line? I actually can't remember. I mean, is it Terminator 1? I can't remember. It feels like it's 2 just because it has comedic possibilities. 2 has definitely got Hasta la vista, baby. That's definitely the big one. Anyway, there'll be more World Cups in future weeks, but thank you very much, Edi, for taking part in the World Cup of 1984.

Let us know which movie or actor World Cups you fancy over the next few weeks. Next week, it's the World Cup of Muriel Strepsil to follow on from. This is all done on Elmo's hell site, as it's referred to. Anyway, so keep those over the top reviews coming. Thank you very much for doing those. Five stars only. And the three words that you have to include are gang and forth. But also not to just say, and Mark really likes gang and forth. It has to kind of work sense within the body of your argument. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Within the body of the argument.

Correspondence at Kermit and May Mayor.com. Thank you for listening.