Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Is Wicked Pop-u-lar with Mark?

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

Thomasin McKenzie is this week’s guest—star of Edgar Wright’s ‘Last Night in Soho’, Mark’s film of the year 2018 ‘Leave No Trace’—and now ‘Joy’, a new Netflix drama about the development of IVF treatment at Oldham hospital in the 1970s. Written by Jack Thorne, the film’s medical miracle story is focalised through McKenzie’s character Jean Purdy—a talented embryologist whose work was key to the team’s breakthrough discovery, but whose name was left out of the history books. She chats to Simon about putting Jean back in the picture in this latest in a line of meaty and challenging roles for the young actor. Reviews this week of ‘Blink’, a poignant documentary following a family determined to travel the world and create precious visual memories for their three children, who are losing their sight—and Amrou Al-Kadhi's debut drag queen drama ‘Layla’, which follows the story of the titular performer (Bilal Hasna) as they discover their confidence and creativity whilst navigating their queer Arab identity. Plus the much-anticipated stage-to-screen musical ‘Wicked’. The Wizard of Oz prequel stars Cynthia Erivo as green-skinned misfit Elphaba, and Ariana Grande as glam girl Galinda, both still witches-to-be as they forge an unlikely and rocky friendship at university. We find out if Mark thinks it’s going to be ‘Pop-u-lar'... Plus top quality correspondence from you and typical witterings from the Good Doctors as per. Our Christmas Spectacular with Mark and Simon live onstage at London’s Prince Edward theatre is now sold out! Event info here: https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo Timecodes (for our ad-free Vanguardistas): Blink Review: 09:30 Thomasin McKenzie Interview: 30:18 Layla Review: ~47:49 Wicked Review: ~57:00 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Mark, I found that I've been thinking recently about merch. Merch? Yes, merchandise, especially all those goodies we have for sale online, you know, branded mugs, t-shirts, water bottles, you name it. The torch, the director's chair, the full works. I wish someone had told me about Shopify, the all-in-one commerce platform to start, run and grow your own business. I know all about that. So Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionising millions of businesses

worldwide, whether you're selling herrings or Harrington jackets with the take logo on the back. Shopify simplifies selling online and in person so you can successfully grow your business. Shopify even gets you selling across social media marketplaces like Facebook, Instagram and TikTok with industry leading tools. Get Shopify today. Sign up for a £1 per month trial period. Can't we fix this? Shopify.co.uk slash. Curmode. All lowercase. I mean, what is wrong with Kermode and Mayo? Why can't it be Mayo just for once? Easier to spell Curmode. They've gone for Shopify.co.uk slash, let's say it together, Kerr Mode. I want to see some naked dudes. That's why I built this pool.

We apologize for that scary start to this week's podcast. scary start to this week's podcast. As Mark is Blink 182 for reasons that will become clear. I don't miss not hearing Blink 182, I have to say. Well, I only used to hear them in the car when they were played by other members of the family. But that is, I think that's the shortest, it's one of the shortest songs I've ever heard. It is like 15 seconds long. But no, okay. Well think that's the shortest, it's one of the shortest songs I've ever heard. It is like 15 seconds long.

But no, okay. Well, that's good, but not as good as I think I might have mentioned before, Mega Armageddon Death by the Electro Hippies, which is on a John Peel session lasted one second and is a single guitar chord. And I was doing the evening session going up to John Peel. And because Radio 1 had broadcast a Genesis concert, the evening show had been reduced instead of two hours to like 40 minutes. Phil Ross, who was the producer, decided that we were going to play exactly the same number of tracks. But to do that, every song had to be two minutes or under. This is in an era when everything was queued up.

Everything was on vinyl. We didn't even have CDs at the time. The most peculiar thing is the fact that we finished with Mega Armageddon Death by the Electro Hippies and we had the pips at the end of the show, the Greenwich Time Signal. John Peel is looking at me aghast in the studio next door as I'm clearly about to cue in another track and we've got seconds to go before. Anyway, so it goes single guitar chord and then, uh, then the Greenwich time signal, then the news. And we were fine because it was actually from a John Peele session on

strange fruit records, as I recall. Wow. Wow. The thing I like about that blink one eight2 thing is it goes and literally then somebody goes, is that it? Yeah. And that is actually what is up. I can see you're in your standard baton t-shirt, but here in Showbiz North London, I've moved to my winter wardrobe because it's like one degree outside. And so therefore I thought a thick neck, kind of chunky fisherman sweater would be appropriate.

But whatever the season, you always wear the same thing, which is a very lovely thing. Very reliable, very consistent. Yes. Have you got snow in Shelby's North London? Yesterday it snowed, but at the moment it's just freezing. This room where I'm speaking to you from is the room I'm sleeping in. I'm in a bed-sit, one-bedroom bed-sit, because the good lady ceramicist is coughing a lot, so therefore I thought I would move into the spare room, which is where I'm speaking to

you from. I never have to leave this room ever. Anyway, everyone is very welcome to this particular show. Mark will be reviewing films, for example. Yes, we have reviews of Blink, which is a documentary from National Geographic. Also Layla, which is a British film, which I actually interviewed the director earlier on this year. And the big release this week, as you cannot fail to have noticed, is Wicked. Which is how long? Oh, well, actually, weirdly enough, it's not quite as long as that.

It's two and a half hours with 10 minutes of credit, so it's two hours 40. But that two hours 40 gets you up to the first half of the stage show. So apparently it ends where the interval in the stage show is. And then we've got another one coming this time next year, which is part two. Right. Okay. All of that fun and games to come. Plus a chat with Thomas in Mackenzie, who we've liked on this show for a long time. Love Thomas in Mackenzie. Currently stars in Joy, and you'll hear that conversation later on. Plus in our bonus section for subscribers and the Vanguard East, our recommendation feature, the Watchlist Notlist TV Movie of the Week, best stuff over the next three days, questions and shmestians,

all of it via Apple, plus extra reviews because you'll do something cool and groovy. Yes, yes. So we're also reviewing Landman, which is the new Paramount Plus series and Battle for Keev, which is a documentary film. You can get everything via Apple podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. Seven day free trial. What a bonus that is. And if you're already a Vanguardista, as always and as ever, we salute you. We do salute you. Saluting is what we do. Sarah on an email, and this is not just any old Sarah. This is Sarah BSC ONS MSC PHD Oceanography. So then it says oceanography, but it's written in French who's got an E in the end and an accent over the first E.

This is all context. Simon and Mark, medium term listener, first time emailer. First of all, thank you. I found your program during the first COVID lockdown and I would listen to old episodes for hours on long solo walks. Do you remember how grim those walks, like the only time you were allowed out of the house to walk around a park full of dog poo. I would always arrive home feeling better than when I left. More importantly, listening to your podcast reawakened my love for films and my life is

richer for listening to your podcast reawakened my love for films and my life is richer for listening to your podcast. So already we like Sarah. Yes. BSc, Onze, MSc, PhD, Oceanography in French. I have two things to tell you. The first is about Jared Leto's accent in The House of Gucci. Yes. I watched this movie at the cinema with a group of 11 Italian people. I think you should sympathize with me when I say that as Jared Leto's performance unfolded relentlessly in front of us, the second-hand embarrassment I

felt had me physically shrinking in my seat. So you can imagine my surprise when later, whilst discussing the movie, the only thing that was unanimously agreed on by every Italian present was that the best thing about The House of Gucci was Jared Leto's performance. They loved the emotion, the mannerisms, the physical transformation, and even, yes, his accent. Did Leto capture something intangible about the Italian spirit that is only visible to other Italians? I mean, I find that hard to believe. Or were they drunk? This is also possible. The second thing I have to tell you and write in about was that

I had the pleasure of being an extra on the set of Gladiator 2 in Malta. Oh, wow. Although I did not understand what filmmaking magic was going on in front of me most of the time, it was an interesting and exciting experience. I always assumed that all sorts of movie trickery and CGI go into action scenes, but at least on Gladiator 2, the stunt people and sometimes the actors pretty much just did the stunts as you see them on film. Excuse me. I of course remember Zach Roberts, whose parents wrote in last week, full of pride, and I would totally sanction a break of code of conduct by them, having seen the work that the stunt people did on this movie. They were long days, sometimes in extreme heat. There were horses, smoke, hundreds of people looking, it looked like, very hard work. As to Mark's question about whether it's Zac Roberts or Paul Meskell's torso

that looks so good on screen, I can report that they both look good. Down with fascists and up with maintaining hope. Now, Sarah's email is, thank you very much indeed for sending that in. Also for backing up Zach Robert's parents who want to break the code. And I wonder if we can suggest an amendment to the code of conduct, like the first amendment. I don't want this to become like a fetishistic conduct, like the first amendment. I don't want this to become, you know, like a fetishistic thing, like the American constitution. But the first amendment could be that if you have a mother, father, sister, brother, or offspring in a movie, immediate family, immediate family on screen, not second cousins, none of that, but immediate family.

If they're on screen, when they appear and they do their thing, you're allowed to say quietly, yay, and maybe three claps. What do you, what do you think? Cause there should be, obviously this isn't going to happen very often. And it would be of interest to people in the cinema. If you knew that the person going, yay, is related to the person that you're looking at on the screen. I think that's acceptable.

I think that the rules have to be this immediate family, okay? So as you just did, like literally immediate family. And secondly, the entire outburst is yay. Because then if anyone hears it, and they're also a member of the church, they will understand that you're not breaking the code. You are merely... Also, don't stand up, but you can just sort of raise slightly as though you're breaking wind.

Just a few inches. Do you raise slightly from the chair when you break? So you're just going, yay. So you just raise by about a foot, maybe pop at the same time. Anyway, and then as you're dragged out by the cinema staff, you can say, I know my first amendment rights. Exactly. Robin Williams said, yeah, the constitution, the right to bear arms and the right to arm bears.

Very good. Let's talk about Blink-182 then. So this is a National Geographic documentary from the filmmaking team behind Navalny. This is directed by Daniel Rower and Edward Stenson. Played at Telluride in August and then was released by Disney internationally. It's dog-woof over here because they've previously done the National Geographic films. So it focuses on a Canadian family with four children, three of whom have been diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, which is a rare and incurable disease that leads to severe visual impairment. So the film has interviews with the mother and father, Edith and Sebastian, and the kids, and we learn that they were basically told, look,

there's nothing, we can't stop this, but what you should do is show your children as much as possible so that when they lose their sight, they still have a sight memory. And also the difficulty of not just the parents managing to do that, but also the kids themselves, because they're young kids, coming to terms with what lies ahead. Here is a clip. I knew Lauren knew it was going blind. What I didn't realize is that

he didn't know what it meant to be blind. So we were on the road and all of a sudden he turns on, mommy, what does it mean to be blind? And like that question was just like a narrow through my heart. Like I stopped breathing. But they both decide we have to do something. And so what they do is they do a bucket list tour to show the kids all the sites of the world. They gather their assets, he has some company shares that pay off, they go off around the world. One of them wants to make friends in faraway land,

another wants to drink juice on the back of a camel, another wants to see a sunset from the top of a mountain, another one wants to sleep on a train. They're staying in hostels and shelters, I mean essentially's a little more than camping. They go to the Himalayas, they go to the White Desert, they go to the Amazon basin. They go somewhere where you can see the Aurora Borealis. And not all of it goes well. At one point, they're in a cable car, which gets stuck for nine hours, which seems absolutely terrifying. And, you know And the parents wrestle with the fact that when you go sightseeing with your kids,

often your kids are tired and ratty. And when you're showing them the most amazing things, it's not the time that they are best placed to take all that in. But the tour, this sort of grand tour, has this kind of ongoing momentum to it. And the kids do see amazing things, but more profoundly, they grow up almost

before our eyes. I thought it was a really interesting and uplifting film about people facing adversity and the risk of sounding like a cliché of the triumph of love over despair. It's got a very uplifting score by Tomokale who did the stuff from Mudbound and did Shirley and Little Richard, I Am Everything. It's very moving. It's a very, very moving film. The idea of this is what we're going to do, this is how we're going to deal with that. We are going to give them sight memories that will stay with them forever. Also, I said the interviews with the parents are very honest and very frank and very revealing. It's very well done and it absolutely is a film about the persistence of hope and devotion. I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

I think at times like these, that is a message that we need more than ever. Anyway, it's called Blink and you'll have to seek it out, but although it does have Disney behind, as I said, but it is well worth seeing. Yeah. Well, as we mentioned before, I suspect there might be quite a lot of, in quotes, uplifting films and musicals and comedies coming our way the next few years, because that's the way it works, isn't it? Yes. Yes. And I think that now more than ever, we need those stories. And if something fills your heart with positivity and joy and the idea that by pulling together, we can make

the world a better place, then I think that's to be applauded. When you were going through that list of things that they wanted to achieve, you mentioned sleeping on a train. I got a train yesterday, there were three people to sleep on it then. That's not raising your eye, it's very high. Listen, I get the sleeper train from Cornwall to London every Sunday night into Monday morning. I love it. It's not for everyone, but I absolutely love it. You get on the train at nine o'clock, you go to the restaurant thing. I do a couple of hours work till 11, then I go to bed and I sleep in a little cabin and it's like an old Hitchcock movie.

Is the Japanese whiskey taken? A little. Just a little age to sleep bottle. Box office top 10. Okay, so before we do that, Joy, so we'll talk more Joy later with Thomas and Mackenzie, but anyway, this is an anonymous email. Mark and Simon, I was lucky enough to get tickets to the premiere of Joy as part of the London Film Festival. And we're doing it now because it's Netflix and so therefore,

as you said, Mark, many times they don't release the figures. So I saw it as part of the London Film Festival and found the film thoroughly affecting. As Mark said in his review, it's a relatively small film, which made seeing it at a packed house at the Royal Festival Hall a little odd, but it tells an important story which seems to be largely unknown. In this country, at least, we now treat fertility treatment as something perfectly normal. But to see how it came about and the reactions it prompted at the time was really moving. Sadly, we're also used to hearing that women's roles across society have too often been airbrushed away by history. So any chance to highlight stories like that of Jean Purdy played by the excellent Thomas M. McKenzie

see later for more details should be seen by as many people as possible. My own reaction to the film was clearly heightened by the fact that I and hundreds of thousands of others before me have the work of Purdy, Edwards and Steptoe to thank for my own two daughters. Knowing that Louise Brown, the first test tube baby was in the audience, probably didn't help my eye leakage. Or should that be flood? However, I did worry that for others with less personal stories, the film might fall flatter. So it was great to hear that Mark also had a strong reaction, albeit for different reasons. Yours anonymously, name withheld, as we've not talked to our kids about this and while I have no shame about it, I don't really want them to find out through your otherwise excellent podcast.

Excellent podcast. Imagine, you're listening, really, is that us? Anyway, so thank you, Anonymous. That's appreciated. Thank you. I'm really glad you liked it because I think it is a very powerful film. And I talked to James Norton on Monday when I was doing my monthly show at the BFI. And he was saying, of course, you know, because the film was in development for a very long time. So the thing that I was talking about, about it's more relevant than ever now. He said, of course, that is completely accidental. It just happens to have come out in the middle of a period when this stuff is very much in the news because of all the craziness in America. But it's the universal

story about women being written out of history and having to be written back into it, which is really the core of the drama, which is very well written by your mate Jack Thorne. I think that message is timeless. More with Thomas and Mackenzie later. So in the top 10, at 10 here and in the States is a Nora. Now before Mark speaks on this, because you have spoken, an interesting email from Rachel Logan, BA, ONS, MA, barrister at law, and energy sucked out geriatric vessel to a developing human we hope grows up in a better world for women. Dear Mark and Simon, heavily pregnant and excited for a rare evening

of actually feeling up to venturing out off the sofa with my fiance. I feel the need to write my first email in 20ish years of LTL life. So this is it. Okay. Mark, you described Anora or the filmmaker as human. Did you say humanist? And then I said, what do you mean by humanist? Yes. I think that's right. Yeah. Rachel says, I found it painfully, deeply, uncomfortably male. The moment the, and I've left out some of this email because it is, as Rachel admits, quite spoilery, but anyway,

we'll get to the gist. The moment the fantastical tipped into the misogynist was the awful one where we were expected to laugh at the prospect of a young woman in her underwear, confronted by violent strangers inside her new home, abandoned, fighting back, in quotes, crazily, while the hapless idiots tried to reassure her, tire up, subdue her and are found in a position clearly suggestive to the next strange man walking in of intended rape. All supposedly some kind of entertaining farce because the men, in quotes, didn't want to hurt her, but her refusal to behave calmly in the face of fear they were causing meant they got injured whilst assaulting her. It was horribly painful to watch, as was the hilarity of many of those in the screening. From there on in, it carried on in the same vein. I didn't get inner strength, empowerment, a woman pursuing what she wants. I got a woman being controlled by violent men,

doing her best to survive a horrid long quest, again played for humor based on their apparent uselessness and her competence and strength, but without communicating any sense of the nastiness and vulnerability in the set up. The scene at the end felt like the ultimate dark male fantasy. I just can't understand all the positive responses to this film. My partner and I left the screening feeling unexpectedly angry rather than uplifted and pretty disappointed in what is presented as feminist human filmmaking in today's society, yours in frustration, Rachel Logan. Okay. Can I answer that directly? Which is, I don't think that scene is played for laughs.

That doesn't mean now if you were in a screening in which people were laughing, that is a different thing. But I don't think that's, I mean, I watched the film on my own in a cinema. And I thought that scene when the guys come into the apartment was absolutely terrifying, like genuinely terrifying. And I didn't think it was funny at all. And I don't think that, I don't think it is played for laughs. I can imagine that if you're in a screening and everyone is finding it hilariously funny and you're feeling what I was feeling, that must have been deeply uncomfortable. But I don't think that's the filmmaker's intention. And I don't think that's the filmmakers intention. And I don't think that's how that scene,

that's how that scene was designed or how it plays out. There is no accounting for the way that people react to things. And I'm, you know, I absolutely respect your, your opinion. And, you know, it's, it's a perfectly fair take. I don't think that that's what that scene was played and that is absolutely not how I read it. I watched that scene with my hand over my eyes, virtually, because I had no idea where it was going.

So the line where Rachel says she found it painfully, deeply, uncomfortably male, and that the scene at the end, which we don't need to mention, felt like the ultimate dark male fantasy. They sound very specific criticisms of not just how it was being taken in the cinema, but the film itself. Yes. I mean, I don't feel that way about it. One of the things that Sean Baker has always done is to work very, very closely with, for example, in this case, sex work advice from somebody who actually really knows what they're talking about. And I don't see that as a male gaze thing. I actually think of all the modern filmmakers I can think of, I think his gaze is the

least guilty of that. Now, I'm not saying you can't see it like that. But I let's talk specifically about that scene, the when they break into the house. I did not read that in that way. And I don't think the film intended in that way. That is not to say that it I mean, clearly, if you were there, and everyone was laughing at it, I mean, I'm kind of slightly surprised because, you know, but I've been in screenings of the exorcist in which people have laughed. And that just baffles me, you know, and I understand it's people can just find that stuff funny and I don't. Rachel, thank you for the email. Correspondence at koemanmao.com. Number nine is Kangoova, a new entry. So not press screened. This is Indian Tamil language epic fantasy action film, apparently the first of two parts.

All I can tell you is it has not been received well by the critics in its domestic release, but they haven't showed it to us here. So if anyone's seen it, let us know. Number eight is The Last Dance. It's a new entry. Oli Friedman says, I just, dear Karachala and Geeta, I just saw The Last Dance. Incidentally, the second film with that title in recent weeks. They regrettably know Venom Horse this time, after hearing Mark's review. Although I found it hard to completely wrap my arms around with characters

that are dropped from large stretches of the film and huge variants in tone, from open-hearted earnestness to fast to truly viscerally upsetting, its transporting final crescendo leaves a shining afterglow that forgives this unevenness. Yes, it's an interesting thing. Again, if we're talking about humor, I've seen The Last Dance described as a comedy and I don't get that. I mean, there are things in it that are passingly funny, but there are also things in it that are absolutely horrifically tragic. And I know exactly which scene I think the emailer is referring to. I mean, I thought it was, it is definitely tonally very strange.

As I was saying when I reviewed it, it shifts from one register to another. And so I liked it. I've just been surprised by people describing it as a comedy because it ain't a comedy, although it does have some jokes in it. Number seven is small things like these. And the smallest thing is the register of Killian Murphy's facial expressions, which are tiny and yet somehow kind of cause emotional earthquakes. He may have the best movie acting face of his generation.

Number five in America, six here is The Wild Robot. Looks great, melancholic, shades of silent running, you know, a little bit of the iron giant. I liked it and it's gone down very well with family audiences. Five here, two in the States, Venom and The Other, The Last Dance. Yeah, it would be interesting if somebody was going to see the other The Last Dance and they walked into Venom The Last Dance with its space horses. I have no idea what they would make of it. It's a complete car crash of a film, but it's taking a bunch of money. Heretic is at number four.

Hugh Grant. Has Hugh Grant ever been better than he is now? I think the answer to that question is no. He is in the golden age of his career and he's great in this. I mean, the film struggles a little bit in its last act but he is absolutely relishing the possibility, the chances, as he has been doing in the other, for the Paddington film as well, to play with that idea of,

he comes across as a nice guy, but there's a lovely thing in Paddington too, when he was being interviewed about Paddington too, he said, yes, they needed a shallow, self-obsessed actor and for some reason they came to me. US number one, number three here is red one. Paddington in Peru is at number two? Yeah, could do with more Sanj. We're all agreed, what Paddington in Peru

needs is more sand. So if they're going to make a fourth one, can we make it Paddington and sand? Gladiator 2 is the UK's number one and some correspondence to that effect. Howe says it looks glorious from start to finish. The performances are all very worthy almost to a fault with of course Denzel not just stealing the show but stuffing it in a sandwich and eating it along with the celery. The main plot was however clunky and almost ham-fisted. The story beats were predictable, the characters staying firmly in their lanes. Thankfully the B plot of Rome's further descent into sicker fancy was excellent, far more interesting and subtle. This saved the movie from being only mildly interesting

and made it certainly worth the watch. Thank you Hal. Jake says, dear weird twin and weirder twin, last night I went to watch Gladiator 2 and I was impressed. I cannot think of another sequel in history that was so bad, it actually made the first film worse. The first film was action packed with a simple and compelling story arc. It was a film about revenge and retribution, a reluctant hero who was a loyal and honorable family man who was fighting against the power-hungry, envious antagonist in Commodus. Gladiator 2 attempts were made to build Lucius into the image of Maximus, yet Lucius's motivation jumped around depending on whether someone called him by his real name or the weird name

that he chose. Macrinus wanted to be the leader of Rome, but he also wanted it to burn. The two weird emperors were poorly developed clowns with zero depth or nuance. The CGI was poor, the costumes looked like costumes, the extras looked bored, and the sharks made no sense. The worst thing though was that Gladiator 2 undermined the premise of Gladiator 1. Lucius's background entirely undermined Maximus as the dedicated father and husband. Lucilla's decision to release Lucius into the wild undermined the whole climax of the previous film. It literally rendered Maximus's death futile. A well-worked storyline over the course of a fantastic film was completely unraveled by Paul writing 24

years later. Why did they bother making this film? What a waste of time and money. Thank you, says Jake. Paul says, I thought Russell Crowe's hand at the end of the film gave a better performance than Paul Maskell. We are led to believe rage is Lucius' gift, yet that never comes across. Perhaps Minimus would have been a better name for his character. Supposedly Ridley Scott shot the movie in 51 days, which is true as what you heard on the show last week. Perhaps if he spent more time on it, it would have been better. Denzel was the highlight, but he's been in much better films, less than zero interest

in a third instalment of this. Thank you, Paul. And Chris in Chelmsford, Dear Dr. One and Dr. Two, having just left the cinema after viewing Gladiator Two, I need to write with respect to your comments about the dog monkey creatures in the film. Well, they were baboons. And having been attacked by a baboon aged seven whilst living in Zambia, this is about 40 years ago, and it ripped out a very large quantity of my hair, I can attest how vicious and phenomenally strong these creatures are.

Have you ever looked online to see the size of a baboon's jaw and its teeth? The redactor has added a note here because he couldn't be bothered to actually be on the show today. In an interview with Deadline, Sir Ridley revealed that a primate interaction in a South African car park inspired the creatures on Gladiator 2. Quote, a little gambling troupe of baboons came across the wall and sit on the wall staring at the tourists. The idiot in question apparently went over to a big one and tried to pet it like an idiot when this thing attacked him. And he's a big man. The guy dropped his

coffee, ran for the car, getting clawed as he struggled to get in the car. I thought that was funny, but I knew every actor had to do the physicality of the movement or of defend kill and or attack. Right. So they're not dog monkeys. They are in fact, officially baboons. But I think the point that you were there space baboons because they space monkeys. Yes. I mean, I don't doubt for one minute that the baboons are fiercely dangerous and it sounds like a horrific experience you have with them. Those things that are in that film are space monkeys. I'm sorry. I mean, they may technically be baboons, but they are space monkeys. Also, in answer to the question, why on earth did they make this? 87 million opening weekend breaking Ridley Scott's previous record. That's why they made it. Like I said, I don't think that it's there because it's got an advanced narrative. As we said when

we were reviewing it, it went through so many narratives and in the end, it was just like, okay, let's bolt all these bits together to make the thing work. But I enjoyed Gladiator for what it is, which is its big spectacular popcorn entertainment with Paul Mescal and space monkeys and sharks, which seem to have been put there largely because they were in a meeting and they went, what have you got monkeys, ships, sharks. Anyway, so that's the box office top 10. Yeah. We're going to take a break and I'm going to be talking to Thomas and

Mackenzie and Mark is going to be reviewing some films. What are you up to? We're going to be reviewing Layla and of course Wicked, part one. This episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service that brings you the best of cinema. Nothing but ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, each thoughtfully handpicked by Mubi's curators. If there was ever a sign that Divine Intervention existed, this is it. Because I'm back to talk to you again about The Substance, which is my favourite film of the year so far. This is an absolutely brilliant jaw-dropping masterpiece from Coralie Fagard.

It stars Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley and it is one of those body horror films that is incredibly deep and weird and strange and provocative, absolutely thrilling. It's one of the things that reminds you that films at their best are one of the most exciting things on the planet. I absolutely love this film. It won best screenplay it can. Frankly, it should have won everything. It's fab. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.COM slash Kermit and Mayo. That's MUBI.COM slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Hi, Teg listeners. We're coming to you from Vanuatu to talk about NordVPN. Well, you are. I'm in Tristan da Cunha,

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Score a massive discount on NordVPN's plan by heading to NordVPN.com slash take. Plus with our link, you'll get an additional four months free on the two year plan. And with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee, there's zero risk. Check out the link in the episode description. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day

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I loved it. Favorite film of the year. Loved it. She's the lead in Last Night in Soho. She's the star of Eileen along with Anne Hathaway. Now we reviewed Joy on the show last week and you liked it, Mark. I did. It's in cinemas at the moment coming to Netflix on the 22nd and it's the story of Jean Purdy played by Thomas Mckenzie, who was one of the central team in the creation of IVF. The drama is about how she, Patrick Steptoe played by Bill Nighy and Robert Edwards played by James Norton created the first test tube babies. And you thought it was?

I really liked it. I mean, it's written by your mate Jack Thornton. I think it's a really, really well written film, which takes a very big issue and shrinks it down to the interactions between three characters about whom you really care. We managed to catch up with Thomasin to discuss the film this week and you'll hear our conversation after this clip. Oh, Mr Steptoe, Bob Edwards. Yes?

We spoke on the phone a few months ago. I can't be expected to remember every phone call, Mr Edwards. Yes, if I could just have a minute. I'd be very interested to hear about your keyhole surgery. Sadly, I'm busy. Talking to these people who banished you to Oldham, they hate you. This is Jean Purdy.

She'll be running our lab. Will she now? Good luck to you both. With your equipment, we'd be able to access a woman's ovaries in the least invasive way. Oldham is an extremely good hospital and there wasn't an appointment in London available. Amazing how there were appointments

for your contemporaries who they did like. And that is a clip from Joy, and I'm delighted to say we enjoyed by Thomas McKenzie one of the stars of the film. Hello Thomasine, how are you? Hello, I'm good, how are you? Very good. Mark Kermode who does the reviews on the show that we do, he said to say to you that he thinks you're brilliant. Aww. Okay, so I just needed to say that at the very beginning, otherwise he won't speak to me. I really appreciate that.

And the podcast will be difficult apart from that. Introduce us to your movie Joy, which arrives on – so it's in cinemas and arrives on Netflix from – Tomorrow. – Friday. Yes. Yes. So whenever people hear this, it'll probably be on Netflix by the time people hear this.

Great. So introduce us to Joy and introduce us to your character, Jean. Joy is a film about the three pioneers who invented in vitro fertilization, IVF, Jean Purdy, who I play, Patrick Sceptow, who's played by Bill Nye, and Bob Edwards, who's played by James Norton. Um, kind of the, the, the story, the film is told through the perspective of Jean, who's an unsung hero of IVF. She was written out of the story. Like Bob and Patrick were really, really wanted her to be acknowledged, but it was

the medical and scientific communities who didn't want Jean acknowledged for whatever reason. Well, I think we know what the reason is. Yeah. The reason is because she was a woman. So yeah, it's telling her story and also opening just the conversation around IVF. And it takes place over 10 years. So it's like 68 to 78. Yeah, that's right. So is this the oldest you've played?

Is it the oldest? I think, no, it's not. This year, actually, I played a 45-year-old. Okay. And I'm 24. Okay. So, yeah. It's written, in fact, Jack Thorne, who co-wrote it with Rachel Mason, has said that it kind of has the structure of a sports story. Yes. It's like, you could see the three of you, you're a team. Yeah.

So it's all great to start with and then you have disappointments and then things happen and then obviously we know where the story ends up. But you sound like the three musketeers together. Yeah, I think you're right. They did write it in the structure of the sports film in order to, because we know what happens. We know that IVF is successful and that 12 plus million babies have been born as a result of it.

But watching the film, Jack and Rachel still wanted people to be on the edge of their seats. So that's where the sports structure comes in to kind of keep people engaged and yeah, on the edge of their seats. Tell us a bit more about Jean Purdy because you're telling a true life story but for reasons that you've hinted at,

we don't really know this story and we certainly don't know about Jean. Jean, yeah, it's really, again, part of the point of this film is to share her story. She wasn't someone who was comfortable in the limelight. There are images and very, very few videos of her where you can see she kind of takes a step back and observes. She was really qualified, and this was a very personal thing for her as well. She had endometriosis and wasn't able to have children of her own.

So the dedication and the loyalty she showed to IVF and to the people who are a part of it, to the women in the Oven Club who gave their bodies for the success, eventual success of IVF. Yeah, she stayed very close with all of them. So it was a real honor to be able to play her and a big responsibility. And it was interesting that there's a section in the film where you leave the team, you leave the three musketeers because you're going to look after your mother and it kind of all falls apart. Yeah.

So that even though the honor has gone to Patrick Steptoe and Robert Edwards, without you, without your character, it kind of didn't work. Yeah. She played such a key part in the success of IVF. She, for personal reasons, I mean, the writers had to take some creative choices. So, Jean, the character of Jean's mother, Gladys May, played by the brilliant Joanna Scanlon.

She is great. She's brilliant and she's so gorgeous in real life. The point of that character was to kind of represent the church and the personal sacrifices that Jean had to make because she was a very religious individual. Because of that, Jean herself had struggled with the idea of IVF and knowing that Patrick Steptoe performed abortions. She struggled with the idea of IVF and knowing that Patrick's deptoe performed abortions. She struggled with that. But at the end of the day, despite those obstacles, she is what brought them back together because she knew how important this was for so many people.

It's interesting because the church come out of it very badly. The press come out of it very badly. And yet, like you say, Jean is still religious. She still keeps hold of her faith, I think. But you wonder why when you watch this film, because you're just appalled at the unforgiving and unloving attitude of her mother and of the priest. For me, I think that how I reason that in my head because, I mean, it's well known that religion and the church have brought about many atrocities. In fact, my brother is a political journalist, and he just published an article in the New York Times about how the Vatican, they moved priests who had committed sexual assault to the Pacific Islands to hide them away. Is it the Anglican? He's just resigned because he was part of hiding those kinds of stories. You can't ignore that. I think he should have reported more than he did. I think we understand the point that you're making.

Yes. But then I think for Jane, she remained religious because there's also an aspect of religion where it's about community and coming together and supporting each other. So, I mean, that's the ideal of it, I think. What kind of, obviously you have to prep for any role. There's a lot of technical medical stuff to get right, which obviously you're relying on the script, but also you need to know how you are supposed to act and what you do in the laboratory and in the hospital. Where did you go to get that? Like I said, Jean was a very personal individual, so there wasn't a lot about her out in the world and her story had been overlooked, So she wasn't publicized at all

She died very young at 39 of cancer and she lived no living relatives So it was a challenge but Jack Thorne and Rachel Mason the co-creators They had done years of research into IVF and into Jane into each and every character in the story So I really pulled on that I found out where Jean had studied and where she worked and I found out where she grew up, what house she grew up in. And I went and visited that house in Cambridge. I learned how to write like her, like Jean, because you see her handwriting in the film and we had some of Jean's real life notebooks. So I learned how to write like her, the accent, of course. Your accent is note perfect.

Thank you. I'll tell my accent coach you said that. Very much. Of course, everyone knows that, and some listeners will remember that the first in quotes test you baby was Louise Joy Brown. Did you get to meet her? Yes, she did. Louise did visit set. I'm doing a couple interviews with her later today. In fact, she visited set and she was very excited about it all. It was pretty surreal having her there considering we'd kind of been carrying Louise in petri dishes throughout the entire shoot. Yeah, very, very interesting and fascinating story. Some people have described it as a very English film. You're perfectly placed, I think, to comment on that being, I mean, I think you live here now,

but you're obviously a very famous New Zealand actor. Does it feel a very English story to you? It feels like a very universal story to me. I mean, whether you're affected by IVF or not, I mean, that's a worldwide thing, but also just the topic of a woman's right to have autonomy and choice over her own body, that's universal and incredibly relevant. So it is a very British story, but this story has had huge impact all over the world and

continues to do so. Yeah. So maybe it's a universal story, but told in a very English way. And it feels, and Mark mentioned this on the show last week, it feels very timely. Even though this is something, as you've mentioned, that Jack and Rachel have been writing this story for a long time. They've been working on this film for a long time. And yet it comes out at a period when, particularly in American politics, women's health and women's rights are absolutely front and centre of the political discussion.

So that makes it, you said it's a universal story, it makes it even more powerful, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, it's just as relevant now as it was back then, as it was when Rachel and Jack first started putting it together. Just this morning, I was on Woman's Hour with the BBC show and they had a guest who were talking about the fact that in Iraq, I think it is, they're lowering the legal age of marriage to nine for young girls, for girls, for children. The legal age for a young girl child to get married is nine, might be nine. The fact that they're even considering that and they were saying that

this bill is likely to be passed is just appalling. So yeah, sadly, it's a conversation that needs to be kept having. Yes. And also, I's just like, sadly, it's a conversation that needs to be kept having. Yes. And also, I'm just talking about in this country, and you're from New Zealand, obviously, but IVF, the IVF, as it's used in your film, is full of, it seems to me, ordinary mothers from all over the place, just from everywhere. And yet IVF becomes something for people who have money or if they live in the right place. So the impact that your film will have

will be very interesting to see actually, because it's a period piece. It'll be interesting to see the impact that it has in different countries as it's played. Yeah. I was just doing interviews with James Norton this morning and one of his character's lines in the film is infertility is an illness, something along those lines. And there isn't something that should be a luxury. Access to this technology shouldn't be a luxury and that's not how Gene Bobb and Patrick intended it. It should be accessible to whoever needs and wants it.

You seem to pick fascinating projects. You mentioned you're 24, but you've already appeared and acted with some amazing people and under some extraordinary directors. What do you look for when projects arrive on your desk, when the phone goes, what is it that you're thinking about? To be honest, from my perspective, I've not planned or particularly thought out. It's my team who are the brains, I think, behind my career. I'm just, I feel so lucky to be working with the people that I work with and to have had the opportunities that I've had. I just, I love what I do and I want to continue telling important stories like this one. And what do we see you in next? So Joy will play on Netflix and obviously will be there

for a long, long time as people discover it, which is the power of being on a streamer. What else? What's your next project that we see you in, Thomason? I am currently filming something called Feckham Hall, which is supposed to sound a little bit- Yes, that's the Jimmy Carr script, isn't it? Yes, it is. It's kind of a Downton Abbey, naked gun, airplane-esque comedy. Right. Well, as it's a Jimmy Carr script, we kind of know the kind of comedy that it's going to be.

Thomas and Mackenzie, thank you so much for talking to us. Joy is on Netflix, and we appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thomas and Mackenzie, speaking to us just a couple of days ago. So the full review is in take two last week. Mark, you liked it. I did. And you have said before that you like pretty much everything that Thomas and Mackenzie is in, which for an actor so young, that's pretty amazing, isn't it?

It is. And for an actor so young to have done such a broad range of roles, when you, you know, look, you mentioned Leave No Trace last night in Soho and now this. I mean, she's, I just think she's incredibly talented and versatile. I'm very jealous that you got to speak to her and I didn't because that interview was obviously just you. I just believe in her when I see her on screen and she seems to immerse herself completely in roles. And also she seems to have picked really smart roles. She's making really, really good choices and I think she's got an astonishing career ahead of her. To have done what she's done at such an early age is really remarkable. Our email is correspondent to covenomode.com. Okay, so what else is out?

So, Layla, which is the feature debut from Amr Al-Khadi, who's a British-Iraqi writer, filmmaker, drag artist under the stage name Glam Roo, also author of the book Unicorn, the memoir of a Muslim drag queen. They were a screen star of Tomorrow in 2018, work focuses on queer identity and a number of other issues. Made their screen debut in Spielberg's Munich as an Islamic terrorist's son. So, they've been asked to play a terrorist about 30 times. made their screen debut in Spielberg's Munich as an Islamic terrorist's son. And Amr al-Kadhi, so they've been asked to play a terrorist about 30 times. Leila, debut feature as writer director,

shot on a micro budget 27 day shoot in East London, played at Sundance January this year, and then played at the BFI Flair Festival. And then Amr al-Kadhi came on the MK3D show. So Bilal Hasna is Leila, aka Latif, a non-binary Arab drag queen who comes from a strict Muslim family, very confident on stage, less so off stage where love and affection is craved for commodities. Hired for a corporate gig at a diversity summit to help promote a range of upmarket microwave dinners under the, under the, exactly. Fork me, I think is the, is the phrase.

Anyway, when Layla discovers that the payment is in food vouchers, not cash, Layla throws a theatrical strop that catches the eye of, of, of, of an ad man. And then something sparks between the two of them, although they're, they're, they're opposites, Layla is all sort of out and proud and loud. Max is keeping everything on the QT. And they start to have this sort of stumbling relationship. Films got impressively frank sex scenes between the two. And the thing with those scenes is they actually move the plot along and develop the characters. Problems arise when they start to meet others in their circle.

So Layla's family know nothing of Layla's identity. Max worries about being seen with Layla, although Max has hidden secrets of his own, and it's to do with negotiating the different worlds in which they live. I think Hassen is terrific as Layla. Hassen was in three body problem on streaming services, really commands screens, great role, makes the most of it.

Great costume and production design, really up the ante. Cinematographer Craig Dindivine whose cameras swirl around the characters really kind of make our head spin. I mean, I thought it was really enjoyable and really entertaining and uses a very enticing screen sensibility. There's lots of stuff to watch on screen, but to tell a story that's actually got depth and clearly very personal. It's not a surprise that it's proved a big festival favorite.

Again, you might have to look for it a little bit. I think it's Curzon are doing it, but it is well worth your time. And does Layla, by that well-known foreign policy and health expert, Eric Clapton, does that ever make an appearance at any stage or do we proceed without it? We proceed without it. Is that how we're referring to Eric Clapton, the well-known health and foreign policy expert? Ads in a minute, but first let's step with significant abandon into our laughter lift. Hey, Mark, had a great weekend.

I tried my hand at blindfolded archery. Have you ever given it a go? I haven't. You don't know what you're missing. Hey! I'm actually um I'm thinking about getting an electric car. Not one of his electric cars, another type of electric car. Did you know that if you have a breakdown in an electric car you can still use the AA? However if it's a really tiny electric car you have to use the AAAs. Hey! car, you have to use the AAAs. Hey!

That sounds like you're about to go into an impression. Maybe Jared Leto. The good lady, Sarah, my sister, her indoors, apart from coughing a lot, said this week that we should eat less dairy for some reason. We should try some of those alternative milks, she said. So I did. I got no idea what a magnesia is, but it made my coffee taste absolutely revolting. In no circumstances should we be milking magnesia.

Just leave them be. People actually have milk of magnesia anymore. I don't know. That is definitely a joke from the early 70s, isn't it? It is. Magnesium hydroxide, in case you're wondering. Anyway, what are you doing in just a moment wicked part one? Wicked II wah-wah part of this

This week on this is history in conversation Join me Dan Jones for an interview with the man, the myth, the legend, Stephen Fry. We'll be talking about the impact of Greek myths on the Middle Ages and get stuck into our favourite and least favourite heroes of legend. Ineos is a very annoying hero. The word that's always attached to him is pious. Whatever the gods tell him to do, whatever a prophet tells him to do, he does it. Search This Is History wherever you get your podcasts.

What was the last thing that filled you with wonder? That took you away from your desk or your car in traffic or your sink full of dishes? As an actor, it's very free being part of these shows. You can step in the booth and kind of be anything. Well, for us, I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Anime! Hi, I'm Nick Friedman.

I'm Lee-Ally Murray. And I'm Leah President. And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents, the Anime Effect. It's a weekly news show. I literally, when I saw it, when I found out about this, I literally had, like, a nervous breakdown in a good way. With the best celebrity guest. I've never pirated anything, but I'll steal it if I have to.

That was how I felt when I started to get really hooked on Black Butler. Oh, it's coming back. It's coming back. So join us every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. Correspondence at KerbenOmaior.com. That's how you get in touch with us and Joshua Claire has done precisely that. Dear Avakar Do and Avakar Don't. L, T, L and F, T, E.

That's good. That's a good joke. And we all know that I'm the do and Mark is the don't. I was compelled to write in following your mention of the guillotine scene in The Pink Panther Strikes Again in last week's show. It happens that my parents have the prototype of the prop guillotine used in the film, a gift from Peter Sellers to my late grandfather after the film was released. I isn't to explain that this was a friendly offering, not as a threatening statement being presented

with a guillotine could look like under different circumstances. My grandfather was the jazz pianist Alan Clare, a longtime friend of Peter Sellers' and resident pianist on The Goon Show, to which you also may mention on the take last week. I have vague recollections from my childhood of Spike Milligan and Harry Seakin being present

at my grandfather's house, at my grandparents' house. Although I was far too young at the time to appreciate them and their success, it's nevertheless nice to still have these memories and a few pieces of paraphernalia from what now seems like a shockingly distant era of British comedy history. Up with sanity and down with our interpensioners, four years is nothing in the grand scheme of things, says Joshua optimistically. Just a point on that.

And you did a little, you did a sort of a goons impression kind of thing last week. Sorry. And Joshua talking about a shockingly distant era of British comedy history. I am not, and I think you are not, and neither do we claim to be experts in comedy, as I believe I prove every week when we enter the laughter lift.

But it is certainly true that a lot of comedy ages very badly, but there is something about absurdist comedy, like The Goons and maybe most of Python, that seems to stand up much better than sitcoms or stand up or sketch shows, which now people cringe at because you can't laugh at that. But if you're talking about the goons, it's so weird and strange that that probably is perfectly fine and hasn't aged at all. Well, I mean, listen, I can still listen to the goon show. My dad bought me a couple of goon show because I listened to over and over again, and I still find them really, really funny. And the best jokes. It's funny because we've been talking about Rome with Gladiator. Last week I was saying, look, if you're interested in that thing, the corruption of Rome and blah, blah, blah, you know, Caligula, the ultimate cut is out at the

moment. But in the history of Pliny the Elder, which is one of the Goon Shows that I was listening to, there is this genius moment when Caesar is in Britain, it's the Romans in Britain, and he says, the whole fact that England hasn't changed him at all. He says, ah, I see that four years in England have not changed your imperial outlook. He says, no, no, all with a Roman eye. Will you take wine? No, I'll have a half a mile in the back of the crisps. That joke is still funny. That is interesting. Just before we moved on to Wickedie Wawa, I remember giving my father an album, a vinyl album of Morkum and Wise, in which they obviously kind of redid some of their sketches, but they recorded them for the radio.

So it's on a piece of vinyl. And there are a couple of sketches on there, which if I were to play them on the radio, I would be sacked. You know, they're very much from, shall we say very much from a colonial standpoint. And they're just, my goodness me, this is a shocker. You know, so even some of the great comedians have come up with some really terrible stuff. There's another thing in the history of the Elder, when Spike Milligan comes on as this

minstrel singing this song about Caesar, he's a goodly man and all this stuff. And Caesar goes, this man is a bit of a crawler. Why does he follow such a profession? He says, for money Caesar. He tells me he wants to die rich and so he shall give him this bag of gold and then strangle him. So if you are a comedian, I mean, I could always just knock on the wall behind me and wake up, child three. But is there any truth in the basic thought that absurdist comedy lasts longer? I think so. I think so because it's, because it's not of the moment, is it? It's just, you know, it's just the absurdity. It's not of any moment.

So, okay. So here comes an almost three hour film, but it's part one, but it's wicked. It's wicked. Long gestating big screen adaptation of the hit stage musical, uh, by Stephen Schwartz and Winnie Holtzman. Um, stage play was based on a novel by Gregory McGuire and Dave Norris sent me this thing because Dave went to the, he was at the premiere, they did the festival hall. And

Mark Platt pointed out, of course, that originally, they had when the novel was optioned, they originally had wanted to do it as a film. And then Steven Schwartz said, actually, you should do this as a stage musical first and I know how to do it. Okay. And then of course it became a stage musical. I haven't seen the stage musical because I'm not a big musical theater go. I don't like it. I just don't go very much. So it's told from the perspective of two witches, Elphaba, who will become the Wicked Witch of the West and Galinda, who will become Glinda,

before and after Dorothy and Oz. So the film is two hours 40 and it's only the first half of the show and apparently it takes us up to the interval. And second part comes out this time next year, directed by John M. Chu, directed by Huda Maida, Crazy Rich Asians, stars Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande as the two central characters. Supporting cast is Jonathan Bailey. Peter Dinklage is the voice of Dr. Dillamund, who is a wise and noble goat on whom society turns. Jeff Goldblum as the Wizard of Oz, a role he was clearly born to play. The original cast members, Idina Menzel, or do you remember when John Travolta Edina Menzel, or do you remember when John Travolta introduced her on stage at the Oscars? And he said, the wickedly talented Adele Dazeem, which is completely wrong. It starts with the

declaration of the wicked witch's death and much jovial rejoicing about the fact that the dead die alone. And Glinda is the sort of beaming, smiling, Barbie-like master of ceremonies. And it climaxes in this sort of Wiccan Man style burning, you know, kill the witch, everyone, oh, it's great. And then somebody shouts at, hang about a minute, weren't you her friend? And Glinda says, well, I knew her. And then it flashes back to the backstory, the beginning, the story of how she was born green to the horror of her parents, raised as an outsider, bullied, but talented misfits, goes to a Hogwarts-like Schiz University where she meets the blonde and pink mean girl, Galinda, who initially bullies and humiliates her, so very kind of, you know, heathers or clueless, but who has a champion in the form of Michelle

Yeoh's headmistress who thinks she has great conjuring powers unlike Galinda. Here is a clip from the trailer. People born wicked. Or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? You're green. I am. Welcome new students to Shiz University, Miss Elphaba. You can room with Miss Galinda.

Popular. I know about popular. Oh, I saved you some space by the way. Do you really think this is fair? I do not. I was promised a private suite. But thanks for asking. So they're chalk and cheese, gradually they become friends, Galinda offers to give Elphaba a makeover, but she's finding her own powers, powers that will take her to the Emerald City

and to meet the great and powerful Wizard of Oz, played as I said by Jeff Goldblum. So, part one ends with, if you know the stage show, and again, I'll stress this again, I don't, ends with defying gravity, of which Schwartz said, we found it very difficult to get past that without a break. That song is specifically written to bring a curtain down. Now, I didn't see the musical and I approached this, I'd be honest with you, with a heavy heart, particularly in the light of things like, you know, Cats, which is still in living memory. You know, it's a great successful stage show and film. I really enjoyed it. The first thing

to say is that Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, they're a really good double act. There's real heart and soul brought to the role of Elphaba. Grande seems to be channeling Sharpay from the high school musical films and Sharpay, always my favorite character. And that was really lovely to see. There is lots of substance in the story. Again, people who know the stage show will know this. I had never seen it. I'd never heard any of the songs. So there's stuff about people being rejected because they're different, which I think is well judged. There is stuff about the mistreatment of animals, which goes very sort of George Orwell. There's quite complicated stuff about the suppression of language being the key to power.

If you stop people speaking their language, you get power over them. There is even one speech, and bear in mind Wicked has been around for a while, there is one speech in which a carnival huckster charlatan explains that a divided land can be brought together by being given a single scapegoat, a common enemy, which strikes an uncannily contemporary note right now, despite the fact that, you know, the story has been around for a long time. It's just, it could not have landed at a better time. Gladiator had space monkeys.

This has an origin story of the flying monkeys, which were always the scariest thing about The Wizard of Oz. Incidentally, I love silent running. Doug Trumbull's dad worked on the flying monkeys from the The Wizard of Oz. Incidentally, I love silent running. Doug Trumbull's dad worked on The Flying Monkeys from the original Wizard of Oz. The songs are bangers and they are performed with no perfect gusto by people that can really sing.

The design of the environment is enchanting. I mean, it's kind of part steampunk Metropolis, part MGM throw throwback, homage. The dancing is on point. And although the camera work is frenetic, it's shot by Alice Brooks, who worked with John M. Chu on the film version of In the Heights. What you don't get is a cut every second,

which is very much the kind of current musical style. I mean, there's a lot of movement in the visuals, but it's not just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And here's the greatest compliment. It really didn't feel like two hours 40. And I stayed till the very end. I stayed till the very end of the credits. Even though it's only part one, it felt to me like it had a natural arc.

Like the story, the end of part one, I mean, obviously this would be the way that the play is designed and obviously there's stuff, there must be stuff in the film that isn't in the stage play because it's two hours, 40 long, and it only gets us to the interval. But it actually felt like it had a proper beginning, middle, and an end, even though it is only part one. And I'm now looking forward to part two. And I say this as somebody who, I went into this trepidatiously because I did not expect to enjoy it anything like as much as I did. And it was a real pleasant surprise for me. Because the last, I mean, I might have remembered this wrong, but the Hugh Jackman movie, the

greatest show, we both thought it was pants. I can't, you know, there aren't any songs in there. Very entertaining guest, we like having him on, so spectacularly wrong. So are you compensating for that? No, I'm really not because I still don't, you know, I went back and saw The Greatest Showman with an audience all singing along. And as I said, I kind of started to understand that it was working with them. I still don't like it. I still don't think it's a, I really enjoyed this. So I know, I don't think I'm overcompensating. I mean, I'm, I honestly went in thinking, okay, here we go. Two hours, 40, and it's only the first part.

And I don't know anything. And I, I was really swept up. And I mean, look, I love the wizard of Oz and it didn't do anything to offend my love of the wizard of Oz and that in itself is, is, is something, but I, I, I just was just surprised by how much stuff there is in it. And as I said, when there is that moment about the speech about common enemies, and it just suddenly seemed fantastically contemporary. I really enjoyed it. And I mean, it's going to be mahusive. It's going to be absolutely huge because apparently the people who love

the stage show think the film is pretty good. I never saw the stage show, never knew anything about it, didn't know any of the songs, and it worked for me. When you've seen it, let us know what you think. Correspondence at koemanmeyer.com. Before we go, Nigel Smith on an email, one of your listeners got in touch with me about the shout out asking if I was doing a tour on the morning of the 8th of December, which is when we're doing our Christmas show, so they could make a double bill of it.

So I've now done that too. I am doing a Hollywood Comes to London tour at 10.30 AM on that morning. On this tour, you'll be tracing the footsteps of stars like Marilyn Monroe, Charlie Chaplin, Harrison Ford, and the Beatles. You'll also see the locations of films, including an American werewolf in London and Last Night in Soho. Everything can be found at my new website at memorypalaces.co.uk. So that's where Nigel is, memorypalaces.co.uk.

On the subject- Brilliant. I should say, I have done Nigel's Walk Into, they are fantastic. They are absolutely terrific. And on the subject of the 8th of December, there are six seats left that have become available for the Christmas Spectacular show. So we've got a block of five and then one on its own. It's Grand Circle E31.

If you book that seat on your own, we will say hello to you from the stage. Will you be our singleton hero or heroine? Do you want Grand Circle Seat E31? If you want to be part of the block of five, then that's fine. But if you are E31, you'll get special treatment. That is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment Production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Vicki, Zaki, and Heather. The producer was Jem. The redactor, though he didn't turn up, was Simon Paul. If you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Mark, what is your film of the week?

Wicked-y-wah-wah by a country mile, in fact. I was so surprised by how much I enjoyed it. More excitement on take two, which has landed adjacent to this podcast. Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you in a few days.