Kermode & Mayo’s Take - M NIGHT SHYAMALAN!! making his Take debut...

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

We have a VERY special guest this week. The legendary thrill-maker M Night Shyamalan comes on to talk all things Exorcist, family and his process behind his new release, Trap, starring Josh Hartnett. This was a great chat, so there’s even more in our premium episode. Plus, we review Caligula’s re-issue and get into some more results from our World Cups of Tom Hanks and 1984. Meryl Streep to come next week... also a special guest appearance from The Redactor. We also review the cracking Sky Peals, a head-twister in which a gas station attendant starts to believe he’s descended from an alien race.  Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!):  Caligula Review – 12:03  M Night Shyamalan interview – 26:07  Sky Peals Review – 44:32  Rebel Moon Part II: The Scargiver Review – 50:19  World Cup of 1984 Results – 57:53  Tom Hanks World Cup Results 1:00:35  You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Simon, I've been thinking about the great collaborations of cinema. Do go on. Well, John Ford and John Wayne, Francis McDormand and the Coen's, Hanks and Spielberg. NordVPN and Take listeners. Thank you, pardon? Oh, you know what I'm talking about. This is a subscription to NordVPN. It's essential if you want to access all your TV shows and films on streaming services from

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description box. Convinced Mark? It's like Eastwood and Leone all over again. So on with the show. I've just checked and goulwaz are made in Poland. So we were just talking about French cigarettes. What? Yes. It's a shock. Goulwaz are made in Poland? Yeah. It is the taste and aroma of Poland. Wow.

They used to be made in France. It used to be a patriotic thing to, to smoke a Goulwaz, even though, you know, maybe, you know, you died because of it. But yes, Jit Tan and I, cause I thought that Jit Tan and Goulwaz was like state owned, but anyways, Imperial Tobacco or something like that. Were they ever state owned? I haven't been able to analyze the details just yet, but they certainly were made in France by French people, and now they're made in Poland. If you had to choose between a gitan and a golwar as a non-smoker, which would you go

for? I'm not quite sure what the difference is. I think I do quite like the packaging of the Jitane. I would let it dangle, unlit, from my lower lip. And then when I spoke it would bounce up and down. That's what I would do. Like on public transport, when you see desperate cigarette smokers trying to get around the bat, I mean, it's perfectly fair enough. They roll the cigarette in the tube or on the bus,

and then they put it in their mouth, but it's completely unlit, so they're not breaking any rules. But I think I'd do that. When I was at secondary school, I did a paper round from a news agent and they had all the tobacco you could possibly wish to look at. At the time, it looked very glamorous and everything, but I remember when all the stats came out because they'd done the health checks that the worst possible cigarettes to smoke were capstan full string. It was like maximum tar, maximum death, maximum nicotine, maximum everything. They looked terrible. They seem to be absolutely... I don't even know if you can get, you know, there seemed to be absolutely, now I don't even know if you can get those now. There would seem to be no point.

There's a line in a jam song, isn't there? And they all smoke caps on filter and they all die of cancer. Wallpaper lives and they all die of cancer. Yeah. Anyway, those were the days, hey Mark, where you could go to the cinema and you knew it'd be gone with the wind. I mean, those days are probably coming back very soon. Anyway, speaking of Gone with the Wind, what else are we reviewing? Yeah, well, we've got a very interesting week this week. So there is a reissue, which I'm kind of quite excited about, which is Caligula, the ultimate cut. We've talked about Caligula The Ultimate Cut. We've talked about Caligula before, but this is a completely new cut of Caligula that premiered at Cannes. Also, Rebel Moon Part II The Scargiver by

popular demand because people kept writing in and saying, when are you going to review that? When are you going to review that? When are you going to review that? Well, the answer is now. And also Skypeels, which is a really interesting British independent film. So those are all coming up for review on this week's show. And we have a special guest. He is M. Night Shyamalan. I'm very excited about the fact that we've got M. Night Shyamalan. I'm quite excited as well because he's never been on the show before. No, although I think we can reveal this thing. I think it's not true anymore, but it was

true for a long time. There is a film distributor in the UK who are in a building that has a very glamorous top floor cafe area where you, I believe, had a birthday party once. Oh yes, I know. Yes. And for a long time, if you went to the cafeteria there, and you'd only go to the cafeteria if you worked at the company or if somebody you knew had let you in, there was a sign which said, coffee free, courtesy of M. Night Shyamalan. Because what happened was M. Night Shyamalan had gone there to do a talk and they had had some kind of reception there and they said, oh yeah, this is great, we've subsidized the coffee. And M. Night Shyamalan said, I think my movies have made you a quintitrillion pounds. What do you mean subsidized coffee? The coffee should be free. And so for many years after that, there was free coffee

courtesy of M. Night Shyamalan in a major UK film distribution. Excellent. Is it not free anymore? Do they have to pay now? Yeah, that's gone now. Yeah. Oh, okay. It's gone. And we'll be kicking off the final of the World Cup of Tom Hanks in just a moment. As well as this and all episodes ad-free for the Vanguard, we've got a special episode this week on M Night Shyamalan. And you get ad-free episodes of Ben Baby Smith and Nimone's Shrink the Box.

So if you're already a Vanguardista, as always, together, we salute you. Anyway. Now on Elmo Musk's social media hell side X, which I think Mark checks every now and again, but doesn't contribute to, we've been running a couple of straight knockout competitions. The World Cup of 1984, more on that later, and the World Cup of Tom Hanks. So Mark, let's talk about the route to the final before we get there. So in the quarterfinals, it was Toy Story against Castaway. I think to no one's great surprise, Toy Story won 53% to 47%, but that was closer than I

thought it was going to be. People love castaway. People love that volleyball. The next quarterfinal was saving Private Ryan against Bridge of Spies, which was an overwhelming win for saving Private Ryan 81% to Bridge of Spies 19%. Not a big surprise. Not a big surprise. Then Forrest Gump took on Toy Story 3.

Forrest Gump triumphing 54% to 46%. Okay. Well, that's a very close run thing. And actually I would have gone for Toy Story 3. The last quarterfinal, Toy Story 2 against Apollo 13, which is a tough one. And Toy Story 2 got 46%, Apollo 13 54%. So Apollo 13 knocks out Toy Story 2. Wow. So in the semi-finals,

it's Toy Story against Saving Private Ryan, followed by Forrest Gump against Apollo 13. So thanks to everyone for taking part and voting. Toy Story in the first semi-final triumphed 53 to 47 against Saving Private Ryan. So Toy Story was through to the final. And then Forrest Gump beat, no, Forrest Gump lost to Apollo 13. Forrest Gump got 44%, Apollo 13 56%. So the final is Toy Story versus Apollo 13. Wow.

So the redactor is about to blow the whistle on the final. So we'll bring you the result at the end of this podcast, which has been handled through social media and all that jazz. So Toy Story, it's easy to forget how revolutionary is that too strong a word? No, no, it is absolutely revolutionary. First Pixar feature? I remember seeing it for the first time and two things were true. The first thing was, you know, you love the characters, you love the voices, you love

the story, you love the conceit. The conceit is brilliant. When you are out of the room, your toys come to life. That is a brilliant conceit. The other thing was the animation was completely mind blowing because it had this sort of three dimensional tactility. It looked like you were looking at real things and the genius of course of them being toys. So consequently the surfaces were exactly what the surfaces would look like. I remember almost feeling like it was, there was something almost trippy about it. It was, I know now we are all completely inured to this.

We all, we were all completely used to what, you know, digital animation can do. But back then, the combination of the incredible visuals with the detail of the incredible visuals and the quality of the script writing. So that you knew who the characters were. You immediately got into the, I can say you immediately got into the central conceit in the same way as inside out, you know, your emotions are personified

in your head, brilliant toy story. Your toys are alive. And the minute you leave the room, they're all doing stuff. Because it's, it was revolutionary. It was absolutely astonishing. So full credit to John Laster. I also remember who is the director and he wrote the original story. Because of the age that Child 1 was, which was about four, because it's a PG and going to see it thinking, can he see a PG at the age of four? And of course it's a PG because of the doll under the bed, he's de-limbed.

Yeah, the kid next door. Yeah, the kid next door, he's sort of cruel to his toys. Anyway, because it's, I don't know, would it be a PG now? Anyway, so I went to sit and thought, yes, okay, I think that's going to be fine. But it is a little dark moment in an oasis of joy. Yes, but one should always remember that all the very best fairy tales, certainly, you know, actually all the best fairy tale films as well have got an element of darkness. And you think about all the classic Disney's, you know, whether it's Snow White or whatever,

they've all got really, really dark elements in them. And that's what makes them work. And of course, you know, as we know, if know, if you look back at fairy tale roots, the fairy tales from which those things are taken are even more dark. I mean, the whole thing about the grim fairy tales being particularly, particularly grim. But you have to have that streak of darkness in order to make the light work. And of course, this relates back to our previous unscripted conversation about smoking because Tom Hanks made, obviously there's a lot of time that passes between Toy Story 1 and Toy Story 4. He said his voice hasn't changed in the decades, largely because he doesn't smoke and

he doesn't drink very much. I think that's right. He certainly doesn't smoke, which is why there's not much difference between Woody in four and Woody right at the very beginning. However, Toy Story is up against Apollo 13. Okay. I think I'd go for Apollo 13, which is one of my favorites, obviously. What would you, what do you think? I'm going to go for Toy Story.

No, no, I mean, look, I think one of the reasons that we all want Tom Hanks to be the American president in real life, incidentally, is because there is something about the quality of his voice that is just warm and human and trustworthy and you want him to tell you that everything is going to be all right, as indeed we have got him to tell us. I'm a huge fan of animation and I, I think Toy Story is a world changing movie. I mean, obviously I think Apollo 13 is a work of genius, but you go for Apollo 13, I will go for Toy Story.

I think one of the last times that we spoke to Tom Hanks, I, and I did mention this on the pod, I took in a photograph of the poster that he signed. Again, this is going back to Child One. He wrote on the poster for Apollo 13, to Ben, go flight! Tom Hanks, which he now has framed in their front room. I just wanted to underline the point we've been interviewing him for decades. That, you know, he was a kid, a small kid back in the day and now he's working for the United Nations. So anyway, that was, that was rather fun. I am now going to quote, I think John Belushi from Animal House to cue in our next piece of music, our next review. Ready? Toga, Toga, Toga, Toga. because now we're talking togas I believe with Caligula the ultimate cut now I haven't seen I haven't seen any versions.

Any kind of Caligula. Okay so introduce us to what we're talking about here. Okay so Caligula was a scandalous core celeb from the late 1970s 1980 by the time it got here. It was a Roman epic written by Gourvi Dal, incredibly respected author, starring Malcolm McDowell, Helen Mirren, John Gielgud, Peter O'Toole, set by Danilo Donati who won two costume Oscars for Romeo and Juliet and Fellini's Castanova. Huge production at Chinichita, but produced by Bob Guccione, he of Penthouse Magazine.

The film was beset with problems. Gore Vidal took his name off it fairly early on. He would later call Caligula one of the worst films ever made. The director Tinto Brass took his name off the film after the cut was taken away from him by Bob Guccione. And then everybody else tried to disown it, but couldn't because they were actually in the film. Problem. And why did all this happen? Largely because when the principal photography was finished,

Gucci only took that footage and thought, well, this isn't saleable enough. So he just went back on the set and filmed large amounts of hardcore sex inserts that he then put into the film, making it the most star-studded and lavish porn movie ever made. Now there were always X-rated cuts and R-rated cuts, but it became a source of total scandal. Here is the trailer for the movie when it was first coming out.

This is a trailer for the R-rated version, by which point every single person involved in the film, with the exception pretty much of Gucci Oni, had washed their hands of it. They spoke of it first in whispers, then it took the media by storm. I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the heavens. Although I have taken the form of Caius Caligula, I am a god. Caligula! Caligula! Caligula!

Bob Guccione and Penthouse Films International present Caligula. You amateur. Amateur? No treachery could equal his evil. No evil was more treacherous. He's mad! Caligula, the emperor who devoured Rome.

Crawl! Crawl! Crawl! I hate them! Malcolm McDowell. Theresa Anne Savoy. Helen Mirren. Peter O'Toole. John Gielgud. No rumour can match the reality. Caligula, rated R. We found a witch, can we, burner? Also that music which then became famous as the music from a television program. So the stories of the original Caligula are rife. When the uncut version arrived in the UK, it had to be escorted from the plane to the BBFC by the police in order that the BBFC could cut it because under the Obscene Publications

Act it was illegal for it to be in any form other than police custody. When it opened, the reviews were terrible, one of them calling it a moral Holocaust. Several cuts of Caligula have existed over the years. I saw it at the Prince Charles Cinema, which of course you and I have done a show in in London in what was then the longest version playing in the UK, which obviously wasn't hardcore but it was the Bob Gucci only bastardized version. That was, I think, the best part three hours long with an interval. There was a shorter version that was released in local cinemas. There was a 90-minute version which was released as

a porn video with basically just the porn bits. In round about 2000, when I was at Film 4, we attempted to do a sort of recut of it, just going through the longest version of the film and taking out all the evident Bob Guccione inserts of the porn stuff to at least say, well, look, somewhere in there, there was a film struggling to get out. I had interviewed McDowell a few times over there, and I said, the weird thing about Caligula is, I mean, it's a catastrophe, but you have the idea that somewhere in there, there's a film, there's an interesting movie. Well, a few years ago, Alexander Tyshinsky was working on a restoration for Tinto Bros's

original version. I think he had like 85 minutes of his work print. Anyway, now we have Caligula, The Ultimate Cut. This is put together by producer Thomas Negerman. It's 178 minutes long and it is basically previously unreleased material. So it's an attempt to make an entirely new version of the film, not based on Brass's cut or Guccione's cut, but based largely on the screenplay. Tinto Brass has already disowned it because he's not involved in it. So already

the ultimate cut has been disowned by the director. Malcolm McDowell, however, loves it. And he said, quote, because of the brilliant work of Thomas Nagelman, one of my best performances has finally come to light after 47 years. So the question is, when I was at Time Out, Jeff Andrew, who was my editor, he said, you know your problem, and I said, well, I have many, he said, your problem is that you believe that all art is redeemable. And he meant it in a kind of affectionate way,

but it was because we were having a conversation about Caligula. And I kept saying, I can't believe that Caligula is without merit, I can't believe that Caligula is without merit entirely. I can't believe that the catastrophe of it, that there isn't something in there. And there's a saying about Tinto Brass, which Jeff said, which is where there's mark, there's brass. Because Tinto Brass, although he had done some art house stuff at the beginning of the film, there's a history of how we got to where we are. And it says,

directed by art house director Tinto Brass. Well, art house director Tinto Brass is a kind way of describing Tinto Brass because he'd made Salon Kitty and then he went on basically to make just kind of erotica. But he was at an interesting point. Anyway, the new version of the film, and I speak as somebody who's seen more versions of Caligula than is healthy, is a revelation. I mean, it is like seeing a completely different film. As I said, it starts with this explanatory creed explaining the history of the film and the set up history of the story. And there's also this very interesting new animation which they've used to set the story up and to define it as a completely different tone to the original. The material that opened the Gucci Oni cut is now halfway through the film.

The whole film is restructured. The original voices have been used rather than the dubs. They've used AI to enhance some of those voices. And so here are the headlines. Firstly, the narrative now makes sense. Apparently Tinto Brass, when the script came in and Brass was talking to McDowell about it, McDowell was saying, look, if this guy's just mad, it's not interesting. I want the character to have development. I want it to be about the way in which power corrupts. And apparently Tinto Brass said to McDowell, he's an anarchist. He's an anarchist who wants to destroy Rome from the top. Now, this may not be historically true because as everyone now knows, all the stories about

Caligula probably aren't, you know, they're mainly myths. But in this story, he is basically somebody who, through an overgrowth of power, becomes an anarchist who sort of poisons the system from within. So it is a story about power now in this version, about the danger of being surrounded by yes men, about tyranny, about tyranny versus democracy. It is also, we have to be honest, shocking. I mean, it is also a film which absolutely has elements in it that are exploitation and are shocking. There is one particular scene, which is a sort of double rape scene at a wedding,

which is still there and is a centerpiece and is absolutely grotesque. And I have spoken to McDowell about this and he was saying, I think that is the centerpiece of the film because that's the point at which you understand just how poisonous this entire situation is. And in the current cut of the film, I think that scene does do that.

There is still plenty of outre 76, most of it elaborate set pieces and some of it flirting on the very outskirts of what you could actually get away with in a mainstream movie. Some performances are better than others. Some of the performances are outright creaky. Some of the zooms and some of the shots, they're like what those 70s movies looked like. But this version restores a lot of Helen Mirren's performance, which wasn't in the original version. It also makes the madness comprehensible. Now, it's not for everyone. I think that in a way, if you're anyone who's interested in Caligula,

you're partly interested in it because of the fact that there was such a scandal around it, because it was such a cause-celeb, and because the question that everyone was asking was, what are these people doing in this film? You know, what are people of the stature of Malcolm McDowall who'd done Clotwick Orange and you know, Lucky Man and IF and Peter O'Toole and John Gielgud, what are they doing in this film?

When you see Caligula the Ultimate Cup, whether you like it or not, and I have no doubt that a lot of people won't like it and there there are things that there are things you can quite rightly take against. But you actually do see what it is that they were trying to do. You see why it is that Malcolm McDowell dedicated a year of his life to doing this. And I would say this is the defining thing. Whatever is right or wrong with the film, there's, you know, there are a lot of sort of NAF, you know, soft core sort of exploitation bits in it. There are, there's no getting away from it.

That's, you know, that's how the film was made. But at the center of it, you have a really, really good performance by Malcolm McDowell that makes sense in terms of the career that he had worked and in terms of the characters that he had played, whether it's Alex from Clockwork Orange, or whether it's the central figure in Lucky Man, you see, okay, I can finally understand what it is that McDowell was doing.

The thing that gives me some kind of cause for celebration is I always thought that, looking at all the different versions of Caligula, and they are car crash versions. I mean, they're absolute car crash versions. You go somewhere in the middle of it. Malcolm mcdowell is doing something really really interesting now that this version is perfect interesting enough there is some scenes in it. What are in other versions of the film that have been taken out of this version this is one scene when nervous dying and call it gets a start asking him whether he can see is not. starts asking him whether he can see ISIS, and that isn't in this version. So there are some editing decisions that are strange, and there are some decisions that, you know, I don't think they're quite the decisions that would have, you know, made the film as good as it could possibly have been. And I think it also leaves you with the impression that in the end, Caligula will always

be unfinished. It will always be to some extent damaged goods. But at the heart of, if you, this is the film that they were making, or at least this is closer to the film that they were making than you're ever going to get. And I think there's just something about, okay, McDowell is a brilliant actor, Helen Mirren's a brilliant actor. These are fine performers.

This is what they were doing. And I mean, I honestly, as I said, it's like watching a different film, whether you like it or you don't like it, it is a world away from the film that we heard the trailer for that literally the people who were involved in it tried to rub from their memory, except of course for Helen Mirren, who's always been very funny about Caligula and who said, you can say what you like about Caligula, but it has an irresistible mix of art and genitals in it, which is a very Helen Mirren thing to say. All I need, I think, is the iClaudius TV series and John Hurt playing Caligula and I'll settle for that. It's also over a lot quicker, I would think, but I used to love iClaudius. I thought that was great.

Yes, but you know, as a film fan and as somebody who has invested quite a lot of time thinking about, I mean, you know what it's like if you see something that's a complete mess, but in the middle of it is somebody doing something interesting. You think, how did it go from there to there? I have to say, from Malcolm McDowell's point of view, I love the fact that Malcolm McDowell is so pleased that what he calls one of his best performances is finally available after all this time, because it does show you he wasn't crazy. He wasn't crazy. He was actually doing something interesting. It's just he was doing it in the middle of a total car crash.

So that's Caligula, the ultimate cut. Is it available at my local Odeon? Would you think? I think you may have to seek it out and it's very likely that people will probably end up seeing it on a home video. But if you're going to see it, see it in the cinema. And on your own? No, not on your own. No, no, no, no. No, okay, fair enough. Take friends. Wear a toga.

Toga, toga, toga. Is that Animal House? I think that's Animal House. Yes, it is Animal House. I think so. Yeah, yeah. Coming next, we're going to be talking to, for the first time, I think, M. Night Shyamalan. That's Manoj Nellyattu Shyamalan on this podcast.

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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash curmode. This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. MUBI is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers all carefully handpicked. Now, Simon, you are a literary fellow. I am a Doctor of Letters because it was one of those Warwick University... Buy one, get one free. Yeah, put a hat on, wear a cape.

Well, you will be delighted to hear about the latest issue of Mubi's Notebook magazine. Notebook is a print-only magazine that's devoted to the art and culture of cinema. Created, prepared and published by Mubi, it comes out twice a year, and a yearly subscription includes a surprise just for Notebook subscribers, and shipping is always free. Issue five, a do-it-yourself themed edition is available now with a beautiful cover designed by How To's John Wilson. Try Mubi free for 30 days at mubi.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's m-u-b-i dot com slash Kermode and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. And next we have an interview with one of the most talked about and successful directors of all

time. Manoj Nelliyatu, M. Night Shyamalan's films have made $3.3 billion globally. Those films include The Sixth Sense, Signs, The Visit and Split. His new film is called Trap. You can hear my conversation with M. Night after this. The frickin' nutjob that goes around just chopping people up. The Feds would have heard that he's gonna be here today. So they set up a trap for him. This whole concert, it's a trap. They're watching all the exits, checking everyone that leaves. There's no way to get out of here. And that's a clip from Trap.

It's the new M. Night Shyamalan film. Night, how are you? I'm good. It's very nice to get out of here. And that's a clip from Trap. It's the new M. Night Shyamalan film. Night, how are you? I'm good. It's very nice to meet you. Pleasure to meet you. And there's lots to talk about. Got slightly distracted just now because I was telling you about Mark, who's the critic on the show,

and how he is the world's leading authority on The Exorcist. I know. That's like just putting candy out there for me. I mean, what? Don't you have a poster of The Exorcist on your wall? Yeah, I have three posters in my office where I sit and write. It's just putting candy out there for me. I mean, what? Do you have a poster of the Exorcist on your wall? Yeah, I have three posters in my office

where I sit and write, and the Exorcist one is right across from me. Why is that? Wow. It is the fusion of kind of the naturalism of the kind of, I guess coming out of this handheld or cinema veritaitary, the 70s, for me the 70s, they got it right, that was the moment that the balance of using naturalism

and making it feel real and doing these bigger movies, we then got into the 80s and 90s where it's kind of slick and polished, but my instincts are more those and that kind of, hey, it's kind of slick and polished. But my instincts are more those. And that kind of, hey, it's for real. This is real. This is what it's like to rob a bank, or this is what it's like to be in the mafia,

this is what it's like when a shark comes to your vacation spot, and this is what it's like to be in Georgetown when a little girl is acting very strange. I can't believe we're actually talking about the exodus rather than Trapp, but Mark will absolutely love that. I mean, is it an influence on you, would you say? It is. Good and evil maybe,

and not so much in this film. Yeah, not so much literally. Some of my, you know, most of my heroes, Friedkin of course, one of them, but even Spielberg or any of these guys, there's sometimes they're just impact inspirations, not necessarily language inspirations, whereas for example like Kurosawa or Hitchcock, Kubrick,

that formalism does speak to me very, very specifically about how to move the camera. I just, that language makes sense to me. Okay, enough of the exorcist. Enough of freaking. Let's talk about trap. Tell us what we need to know as we start this conversation. Take us into your world in this story here. The plot of it. Yeah.

I mean, the simplest version is that a father and a daughter go to a pop concert, and the father's a little fish out of water, and they go to this, you know, singer's concert and the father starts to notice that there's an enormous amount of police and SWAT members around and he realizes there's military vehicles outside of the venue and he comes to realize that there's been a trap set at this concert for a very, very well known serial killer and they believe he's in the building

and then the movie reveals to you that the father is the serial killer and they believe he's in the building and then the movie reveals to you that the father is the serial killer. That's right, played by Josh Hartnett, who just walked past me outside in the corridor and I felt slightly scared just for a moment. Oh, that's good, that's good, yeah. Because he's perfectly sinister. He looked very innocent out there in the corridor,

but I'm thinking I've seen you being innocent in this movie and then we know what you're capable of. So we spend an awful lot of the film, and then we know what you're capable of. So we spend an awful lot of the film, most of the film actually, at the concert with the father and the daughter. Just tell us what that was like to, because creating a pop star or a rock star

is very difficult, I think, in a film. Bradley Cooper did it fantastically in A Star Is Born. And you have done exactly the same, slightly more poppy than Bradley Cooper is with your daughter, of course, but creating that concert, a believable concert, and a believable pop star with a catalog of songs, how difficult was that to direct and produce?

I mean, I think what Salika, who wrote all the songs and performed all the songs, what she achieved is extraordinarily difficult to the point that I don't think there are two hands of people on the planet that could do it, it's that difficult. Because it has to be not fake. Genuinely, it has to stand as exceptional art on its own with exceptional intentions and executions all on its own.

And so she was in charge of making an album that was excellent, and then I will happen to photograph it. But yet the album has to be written for the narrative. And so it's difficult enough just to write an incredible album of 14 songs with no restrictions. But in this case, I'm saying this song has to say this. This song has to play against this moment. And so we were kind of genetically bound in our goals

and so she would keep studying the script and then she would write a song and then I would say, oh, that would be great here, and then that would be great here, and then I said, okay, I really need you to write this song and it has to mean this at that moment. Because where Bradley Cooper was obviously being in the country rock area, we are here in kind of the Taylor Swift,

Lady Gaga territory, where 12, 13, 14 year old girls, particularly, this is the most exciting moment in their life. Now it's one thing to write that, but to make us believe that on stage is something else. And I do think it's one of the achievements of the film is that I believe, so Lady Raven is the name of the pop star played by your daughter.

And I completely believe that she was a pop star. What I think you're referring to again is what? That the songs are actually loved so the extras would learn all the songs. And Hooky, you know, I can hear why people would like them and would go out and buy them, you know. Yeah, I mean, she just wrote great, brilliant songs. So, you know, we would have them learn it.

They genuinely love them. And then we put a concert on and they were enamored. And I just rolled the cameras, you know, while Salika enamored the arena. And that's why it felt real. It was real. They were genuinely having an amazing time and then I was like, action Josh,

and all the kids and everyone that was reacting were having an incredible time. And you know, we would finish shooting and they'd still be singing the songs. I did find myself wondering, are we gonna spend the whole movie in the arena? Was there any part of you when you were constructing the story that thought similarly that we could actually start and finish in this arena?

Yeah, I mean it should feel that way, you know, that the movie is entirely in this arena. That's part of the conceit, that you're stuck in this location. So the impact that you should have as an audience member is that it was primarily in the concert, the emotions are there. I've mentioned this on the program before, but my least favorite genre in drama, TV series, and film is serial killers.

But this isn't that film, because as you've just told us and explained the film, we know who it is from the word go, which makes it in a way more terrifying, because it changes that dynamic completely between the father being protective to his daughter when you realize that the father is the problem. What were you looking for from Josh Harnett? Why did you choose him? What did he have that made you think you can be a believable and loving father

and a terrifying serial killer? Well, I'm gonna go backwards a little bit on your kind of question or the setup of your question. I've been obsessed with serial killer stories, but everyone's so saturated by them, especially TV shows. And it's just a kind of a well-trodden subject. When I first started thinking about it, I was thinking of it in a traditional manner

of, you're with the FBI, they come up with the idea, they set up it in a concert, and then slowly you try to hunt this guy, and then you'll go to the guy occasionally, you know, being hunted, that kind of thing. But primarily you're with the protagonists. And it was so obvious. And I just couldn't find any spark in it. And then when I thought of, wait a minute, you know, you're with him and there is no kind of revealing who he is.

You're with him and there is no kind of revealing who he is. You're with him and you're rooting for him. Then I went, wow, I haven't seen this before, that you're in the room with Hannibal Lecter as he's fixing his hair before Clarice comes in. So just to interrupt at that point, is this you having an internal monologue with yourself about the idea? Yes. Yes, it is.

It's just me going, what is the angle? Why is this special? Why would I spend two years of my life on this? How is this different? And there's so much different, started a concert and all that stuff, but I didn't want to be, go to a genre and do something tired.

I wanted to do something really unusual. So the usual movie of this story is being glimpsed. Just tiny little moments, you're seeing the person that's hunting him, tiny little moments to all the stuff that he's done. The normal movie of what did the killer do and who's chasing him and all that stuff, you're just glimpsing that as this kind of,

the mania of this concert's going on. So why Josh Hartner? You know, once you say I have to root for him, once you're putting in his shoes, you have to have charismatic, you know, handsome, intelligent, somebody that you go, oh, that's, you know, wow, he did that, I wished I thought of that, you know,

where you're rooting for him. And you have to have someone that has a kind of an inherent playfulness about them because he's kind of an inherent playfulness about them because He's in kind of enjoying this this this thing It's it's it's an absurdist moment to have this happen to him, but it's also something he very much enjoys So we have to believe in him and we also have to believe in his daughter Yeah, who's called Riley played by Ariel Donahue?

So where did you find where did you find her because we buy into that relationship straight away Yes in many ways. That's the secret sauce of the movie is Ariel that that You love the daughter and you love the father-daughter relationship so much. It's so Truthful and and beautiful and that juxtaposed against all of these big colors I like that relationship a bit less as we went through the movie and you told us some of the things that he'd been up to. But you're fighting for his feeling about it, which is why it's so beautiful. That's where you're relating to him is the connection to his daughter.

Ariel auditioned for me from Australia and immediately I saw kind of her, she knew how to do the kind of the fan and do it in a way that was so endearing and sweet and funny. She has a funny bone about her of how she approaches all this stuff and such a sweetheart. So, so lucky again, it was only one kid to play the daughter

and one person to play the dad, that was it. You've done claustrophobic settings before, cabins for example, obviously very claustrophobic. But a cavernous concert is something else altogether. And yet it felt claustrophobic, even though there's thousands, I don't know, how many people did you have in the crowd? You know, at times it was close to thousands,

you know, you have to keep moving them That's so that felt odd to feel claustrophobic in that in that space But once we know the kind of the evil that you've let loose then I'm afraid we are feeling claustrophobic Yeah, it's funny. You know it's more like you know how you're lonely in New York City where you know no one you because you feel Alone because there's so many people that no one is seeing you and you're having your own experience and it feels like no one can relate to you that's what Josh's character is feeling in this arena they're having their own experience and he's you know having the worst moment the worst day of his life. M. Night Shyamalan thank you very much indeed. Thank you brother. M. Night Shyamalan talking about his new movie Trap.

For the Vanguard, we have a guide to the best and worst of his films. That will drop tomorrow. Mark will be reviewing it. Is it next week you're going to be doing the show? Really? It's next week, yes. Yes. Okay.

It'd be nice to have Sanjeev to look at as opposed to me. Because he's a top bloke. He's a top bloke. Okay. So that's coming up next week. But I have to say, Mark, you're going to love the laughter lift. So let's step in this hand in hand with Gaye Abandon. Here we go, the laughter lift.

One more time. Sorry about yawning, Mark, but I'm pretty tired, I have to say, this week. Early this morning, the neighbor banged on the wall five to four in the morning honestly I ask you. Luckily I was I was still up and playing music and she shouted to the wall crikey Simon do you know what time it is can I have a little respect please great choice I said this one is for my next door neighbor here Here's some erasure, just for you. See I'm dedicated to my craft. Anyway, I've started my new book, Mark.

It's an unlikely tale of two insects who fall in love in a famous Italian city. It's a Roma ants novel. That kind of works better on the page, I think. Yeah. It's not as good as just a little respect. Mark, what is still to come? What are you doing next? We're going to be reviewing...

Mark, suddenly looks... Skypeels? Yeah, Skypeels. I'll definitely be reviewing Skypeels. Thank you for telling me that. And, oh yes, Rebel Moon Part 2. Plus the result of the World Cup of Tom Hanks. On the way. Quick email here from Paul in Doncaster, Grade 5 piano. Dear En and Ra-Ha, I was introduced to wood entertainment on an internet archive a couple of years ago by my friend Chris. An internet archive? What's that?

It's an archive on the internet. Anyway, since then I've been working through your entire back catalogue until I came to a show in July 2013 where a gentleman called Drew from Australia, yes, all of it, then living in California emailed to say he was six months behind in the podcast listening and wondered if anyone else was six months behind in the podcast listening and wondered if anyone else was any further behind. I would like to put myself forward as the most behind listener ever. I'm currently 11 years behind on the podcast. I was also dismayed when I first wrote in to be bounced by the BBC email address, however,

then relieved following some quick Googling to find that you just moved house and still going it will be sometime before i find out whether this email is successful as i'm listening to the rate of four years per year therefore it will be almost three years until i'm at july twenty twenty four Um, so let's hope we're all still here. I'm in eager anticipation to see what you made of the two hobbit sequels, all the Marvel films and the star Wars sequels. Uh, hello to Jason. So this is, so if he is, he's 11 years behind. Yeah. So we need, we need, yeah. I mean, so the queen is still alive. Dave Cameron's the prime minister.

Um, the biggest movies of the year, Frozen, Iron Man 3 and Despicable Me 2. And I wonder what- Oh, and 3D everything, 3D everything. Yeah, but also the most terrifying thing about listening back to any of those, I did a thing yesterday in which for reasons that are too complicated to explain, somebody ended up playing back my review of, I think it was Sex and the City 2 or something. And you know, you said about Tom Hanks,

his voice hasn't changed over the years. So when he was doing Woody, he still sounds like Woody, sounds the same. My voice has changed. I don't smoke or anything, but you know, my voice has just changed. And partly it's like, I sound like, Linda said, have you been inhaling helium? It's like, so my voice is going down. I'm just, it's going, it's, it's, I'm going down to Tom Waits. It'll be the whiskey. It's the whiskey. That's the thing. The whiskey is thickening up the vocal chords and I'm definitely, I don't know whether you ever heard it, but there was a program on Six Music, which was co-presented by Iggy Pop and Tom Waits. And you have never heard so much growling in your,

it was just everything was out there. So I heard it was, it all sounded like, you know, Jeff, Jeff Bridges and Ogle, Woggle, Foggle Dragon. That does sound, that does sound very good. Imagine, so I'm, if you're still, I mean, obviously this is pointless because we're not speaking and Ogle Woggle Foggle Dragon. That does sound, that does sound very good. Imagine, so I'm, if you're still, I mean, obviously this is pointless, because we're not speaking back to 11 years ago, but I would quite like to go back to 11 years ago.

I think the world was a better place 11 years ago. Everything seems to have got worse since then. I would think 11 years. Yes. Everything was worse. Well, it's 11 years. Yes. Everything was worse. Well, it's definitely true. 11 years ago, Donald Trump was just some schnook on television. I think that is the reason why I can't stand The Apprentice. We mentioned

the music earlier, because it was used in the original version of Caligula. But you know, it is the TV show that is, I know the UK version isn't responsible for Trump, but it is the TV show that is, I know the UK version isn't responsible for Trump, but it is the show that is responsible for making him the TV star. Yeah. No, I agree. I've never watched it. I've never watched it and I wouldn't watch it on principle because of that.

Anyway, let's talk about a movie, Sky Peels you'd be mentioning. Yeah, Sky Peels, which is a British film written and directed by Mohan Hussain, who was one of Screen International's stars of tomorrow. BAFTA Breakthrough Brit, Faiyaz Ayub, stars as Adam, who is this lonely young man working in a motorway service station in a burger joint. The place that he lives is being sold up. He's got a phone message from his estranged father, who he hasn't seen for 20 years, saying he wants to see him, he wants to

tell him something. He then learns that his father has died having parked up outside his workplace. So he's both homeless and suddenly kind of cast adrift by this event. His uncle then tells him that his father was adopted and thought he came from somewhere else. And he says, what, Pakistan? He says, no, somewhere else, meaning somewhere not earthly. So Adam then starts to wonder, was his father an alien? Is that the thing that he was going to tell him?

And if his father was an alien, then what does it make him? And is he human or is he some kind of man who fell to earth? The film's really interesting. It's shot on film. Apparently, Kodak agreed to help them with the cost of shooting it on film because they want young filmmakers to work on film. I read an interview with the writer-director who said that they were inspired by watching Close Encounters of the Third Kind and realizing that Close Encounters of the Third Kind isn't really about space aliens. What it's about is a man running away from his family.

And you and I, Simon, have talked about this before, and I've talked to Richard Dreyfus about it, that the center of Close Encounters is a story of somebody who has this kind of bizarre wanderlust to follow the aliens and go off into the stars. Steven Spielberg said, I think he said it in one of the interviews that we did with him, he said it many times, he made Close Encounters before he had kids. If he had made it after he had had kids, he would not have allowed the central character to get on the spaceship. I'm sorry if that's a plot spoiler, but it's close encounters. I think that I think we're fine. Yeah. It's a previous century. I think we're fine. So, and then I spoke to Richard Dreyfus and he said, yeah, but that's, there's no other way

it could end. He has to get on the spaceship because that's the trajectory of the story. Anyway, he has to get on the spaceship because that's the trajectory of the story anyway. So the writer director of Sky Peel says that kind of realization that that film wasn't about space aliens, but it was about somebody running away from their family is sort of then translated into this, you know, much lower budget, much smaller, much more kind of, you know, down to earth in some way, intimate drama about somebody who basically feels alienated, about somebody who starts to wonder, and I'm sure many people will recognize this, if they actually fit, if the reason that they don't seem

to be able to make friends or communicate with people is because they are genuinely alien. I mean, I still think, for example, that if you look at Nick Rhoades' Man Who Fell to Earth, one of the reasons that story chimes with many people isn't because they're interested in outer space, because there's very little outer space in the Manifell to Earth. It's because Bowie represented that kind of alien presence. He's a stranger among us. There's a really lovely sort of touching, funny, awkward moment when Steve Or Oram who's got a supporting role in it plays his boss.

Any decides to bring him out of the kitchen and put in front of house as a guest welcome and he says cuz you're a people person i look at you and i see your people person and it's really funny and painful because because the central character is anything but a people person is somebody who person. When somebody says hello to him or asks him how he is, you can see the pain that he has in just answering them, in just trying to reproduce the illusion of normal human interaction. And then what's lovely is that the story becomes about the way in which you do or don't choose to be part of the world in which you live. So really, it's a story about somebody moving from a position of isolation to a position of realization and then something beyond that, which is told within a narrative in which – I mean, the question about whether or not there is anything unearthly happening, there's a sequence in which he finds a surveillance videotape of his father who appears to disappear, but it could be a blip on the tape. It could be nothing more than that. And it's using the science fiction idea in the way that science

fiction really should be used, which is to talk about things that are completely down to earth. Because although on one level it's a story about somebody who comes to believe that their father is an alien, it's actually really a story about somebody trying to make sense of why it is that they don't fit in in the world. And I think on that level it works really well and it's very touching. It has these hallucinogenic flashes as well, which are kind of stylistically interesting, but at the center of it is this very moving performance of somebody who just doesn't feel they fit in and thinks that they

might've found a reason why. And that is called Skypeels. Decent distribution. Well, it's the BFI are behind it. So yes, you will be able to see it again, you know, like anything else, because it's not a blockbuster release, you'll have to seek it out. But it is, it is, it's, it's well worth your time. There's a, there's a, there's a lot going on in a very small film.

And there's a lot going on in a very elongated film. Next. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor, or a consultant, you can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD Insurance Advisor to learn more.

We interrupt your podcast to bring you breaking news. Tim's classic breakfast sandwiches are just $3 when you buy any size coffee. You heard that right, $3. Your mornings will never be the same. Plus tax, Canada only, limited time only, terms apply, see app for details. It's time for Tim's. Okay, so next let's remind ourselves of Terry Hurley's email from a little while ago to

get us elegantly, I think, into Mark's review of Rebel Moon Part 2 colon, The Scargiver. Hello Marcus of the House of Drongli Fron and Simon the Master of Dronky Drees. In the past, Mark has often been known to extract the urine of certain fantasy and science fiction films by satirizing them with fake narration in the style of In the Land of Thringley bangs, in the time of the third age of the generation of Merengue Flitsop. Little did I know that the narration at the beginning of Rebel Moon 2 would surpass any such Mickey takes. A few more tweaks and the whole film could have been a Monty Python classic. Yours, Terry Hurley in Staines. That's the town of Staines, not my living conditions.

Does it get better from there? You know, it might be that when Sir Anthony has finished that intro, it rocks and is fantastic fun. All right. Well, look, a lot of people wrote in saying, can you please review Rebel Moon Part 2? So you know, so this is the sequel to Part 1, which you, I think said was the least original story you had come across in quite some time. Well, that's because it is a brand new title.

It's not based on a comic. It's not based on a novel. It hasn't been done before. It's just that it's all been done before. All of it. Every single bit. And it might as well be a Star Wars spinooff and indeed started life as a Star Wars pitch. There is also said before, as they say in Love and Death, a tremendous amount of wheat,

this wheat, cream of wheat, fields of wheat. So George Lucas, when he was doing Star Wars, looked at Sam Uri movies. Zack Snyder looks to Star Wars and goes, okay, yeah, fine. You know, there are weapons in this that might as well be lightsabers. And as we said, when we were reviewing part one, the baddies are to all intents and purposes, the Empire, the goodies of Star Wars caricatures. Anyway, then we have Sir Anthony Hopkins is this kind of pound shop C3PO who does that ridiculous narration.

So the first one was over two hours long. By the time it was all done, you had characters established, but it was, I don't know, I found it a bit of a... I don't think it was Snyder's worst film by any means, but if you can cast your mind back, because you watched the whole of part one, right? Yes, yes, yes, for the interview, yeah. At the end of part one, Ed Skrein and his killer cheekbones, you know, in his acts, they're like space fascists, okay? So at the end of part one, a key villain appears to be dead, but they're not dead. Do you remember this?

Yeah, kind of, yeah. People are dead, but then resurrected. Anyway, so that's why he says they were now free and say also they thought so. So part two had a limited theatrical run in the US. I don't know whether it played theatrically here. If it did, I didn't see it. Then it came to Netflix in April. Apparently got 21 million views the first three days, making it the most viewed English language film on the service in that week of April. And the third consecutive Netflix number one for Zack Snyder, starting with Army of the Dead and then continuing with Rebel Moon Part One. the dead and then continuing with the with Rebel Moon part one. And in April when this came out, Kurt Johnston, who was the co-writer said, oh, was originally this is going to

be a trilogy. But now we're going to go into six parts with each story divided into two. And it's like, okay, part two is two hours long. There is a part two directors cut, R rated directors cut, which adds another hour to that running time. And I'm going to be upfront about this. I didn't watch the director's cut. I watched the ordinary version because my life is too short. I think two hours, I've already given it two hours. So I watched the normal version, picks up with the rebels congratulating themselves. They, you know, on we've killed the space fascist only to discover that they haven't and the ships are coming back. So they must

harvest the wheat, there must be more wheat, there must be fields of wheat and cream wheat, there must be more wheat, and then they must be ready to fight. So they must get the wheat and then they must be ready to fight so that when the baddies arrive for the wheat, they will fight them. So basically it's the same thing all over again. The baddies want wheat, the rebels don't want wheat, they have to have a fight. Now, it is hard to explain how much I do not give a flying fruitcake into a rolling doughnut about any of these characters. Every single speech is portentous and it's hobbity-tosh that attempts to imply some huge, incredible, complicated backstory of mythos and legend. Nothing is incidental. As I said at the beginning, we've got the Coliseum of Pollocks,

and it ends up with the Pound Shop C-3PO is heading off on yet another quest, which honestly sounds like another load of old Pollocks. There is so much stuff, there is so much clutter, there is so many things on the screen and yet there is so little going on, so little substance, so little of any. I mean, it's all surface myth building with nothing beneath it. It's like a temple of tissues built on a cloud. And if you thought part one was dull, it is absolutely nail biting in comparison with part two. It's like wading through treacle, except I quite like treacle. And it tells me two things. Firstly, Snyder has got no storytelling ability at all. The fact that he does a two hours then, oh, there's going to be the director's cover, there's

going to be another hour. Every single scene feels like somebody hurling a fake tablet of stone at you, like a polystyrene tablet of stone at you. Like, this is important, bang! But it's not important. Hobarty Tosh would be light relief compared to the stodge of this. On the plus side, Charlie Hanneman,

he's no fixed accent, appears toeman, his no-fix accent appears to properly be gone. Fine. But that's the only advantage is that something that was a bit annoying in the first film isn't there to be annoying. What I realized was when you take about the way the things are annoying, you're just left with, it's like being smacked repeatedly round the head with a pillow for two hours while somebody tells you that it's really, really, really, really important. It's like a lead overcoat of lump and boring storytelling with boring characters that I don't care about and storylines that

I don't care about. And it's the same story. The fascists want the wheat, the rebels want to kill the fascists. Can you kill fascists with wheat? This wheat kills fascists. That could be the strap line. As I believe the old folk song said, this wheat kills fascists. Yes. I'm sure there's a Woody Guthrie reference we can make there. It's so boring, Simon. It's so, so, so, so boring. Well, depending on how the summer goes, if I find myself with a completely empty, I don't know, a couple of weeks, I'll give it a go and I can report back.

Correspondence at Curb of the Mayo.com, obviously. I will tell you the results of the World Cup of Tom Hanks very shortly, but we've also got a World Cup of 84. We did the draw last week and this is how the competition is progressing. So I'm going to give you the round of 16. So we don't have the results of this. So this is going to be coming up in future weeks. Okay. So we've already gone down from the round of 32. So this is now the round of 16 where Ghostbusters is taking on Stop Making Sense. Well, Stop Making Sense. I think Ghostbusters will win. Yeah, but Stop Making Sense should win. But it won't. No, but I'm just saying it should. Then it's the Terminator against Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Well, definitely the Terminator because Temple of Doom is all over the shop.

16 Candles takes on Dune. This is the David Lynch Dune. You know, I'm going to perversely fly the flag for Dune. I'm going to go for 16 Candles on that, I think. A Nightmare on Elm Street plays Amadeus. I mean, we talk about an interesting, how do you even, how do you begin? Obviously I'm going to have to go for Amadeus, but they're two iconic films of 84 and they've both been drawn against each other, which is a bit of a... Yeah, and also they've been drawn against each other in a way that's deliberately sort of set up for you versus me because I know how much you love Amadeus and you know how much I love

A Nightmare on Elm Street. So whichever way it goes, one of us is going to be disappointed. But also there's a potential, you could say that whoever wins that match might win the whole thing. Really? Yeah. Yeah. That's entirely possible. Anyway, then Beverly Hills Cop plays splash or splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash, splash. I think probably Beverly Hills Cop will win that one. Footloose. Yeah, I think so. Footloose against repo man, probably Footloose, yeah, I think so. Footloose against Repo Man, probably Footloose, I would think. Yeah, I mean, I like Footloose.

The film that really gave us Kevin Bacon, but I love Repo Man. The Karate Kid plays Police Academy. The answer to that is I don't really care. So why couldn't it have been Amadeus plays Police Academy and Nightmare on Elm Street plays the karate kid? I mean, why couldn't that have been the draw? I mean, I think karate kid might win maybe.

Anyway, and the last one, the last matchup is Paris, Texas against Gremlin. You see, I go for Gremlins because I've always thought that the reverential tones of Paris, Texas are fine. Everyone had a poster of Wings of Desire, but Gremlins is a great, great, great film. So we'll run the quarters and the semis and we'll tell you the final next week. Whoever wins out of Nightmare on Elm Street and Amadeus may well end up certainly being in the final and might be a winner. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. Who knows? Anyway, it's time to announce the result of the Tom Hanks World Cup.

This is entirely based on your votes on the hell site and it's being held up in front of us. No, I can't read it. Simon Paul, why don't you be the returning officer and announce the results? Come on, actually, come on the microphone here and speak. I now have the official results of the World Cup of Tom Hanks. On the 4th of July 2024, 977 votes have been cast in the hour long final. And I can say that Apollo 13 had 36% of the vote. Toy Story 64% of the vote.

I now declare Toy Story the winner of the World Cup of Tom Hanks. Thank you very much indeed. Thanks very much for all the votes. And if you have taken part, the World Cup of 84 is the one that awaits you. We went through everything just a few moments ago, so that'll be a final for you next week. Is that it? I think that's it. Do I have to do the, this has been a Sony Music Entertainment production thing, or do

we all know that by now? I think probably contractually you have to. So what's our film of the week? Well, this is kind of complicated, isn't it? I mean, the new film of the week is definitely Skypeels. But as somebody who's waited a long time for this, Caligula, the ultimate cut is also. So it's a double header, Skypeels and Caligula, the ultimate cut. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Your emails please to correspondents at kubedemeier.com.