Kermode & Mayo’s Take - What is the best Meryl Streep film of all time?

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

We have a fantastic selection of new releases and nostalgia for you this week. First of all, we look at Meryl Streep’s best films and put it to you to pick one. The final result was almost too tight to call - around 52/48%, if that number sounds terribly familiar... We also look at brand new releases Starve Acre and Robot Dreams, as well as looking forward to next week, when we’ll review Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Of course we didn’t forget! Starve Acre is a chilling tale of British folk horror at its finest, while Robot Dreams is a touching animation which anyone in the world could watch and still understand – just one of those things animation does. Finally, we get to the bottom of why all these Spiderman releases have happened in the same year, as well as Mark looking at the “best” deaths in cinema history – if you can call them that. Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!): Meryl Streep World Cup – 06:36 Starve Acre Review – 10:51 Spiderman: Homecoming Review – 19:34 Robot Dreams Review – 34:46 Meryl Streep Cup Final – 42:36 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, this is Mark. I want to share a secret with you. I've always wanted to watch Densutis Van on Denmark's public TV station DR. Oh, and also that broadcast of Michael Dudokdovic's D'Autre Rouge on France TV. And you know what helps me get to do all of that? NordVPN. Wherever I am, I can pop NordVPN on and bingo, I can switch my location to 111 countries and unlock rare films and global content in the process. Not only that, but all of that watching is safe with encryption, threat protection and dark web alerts to guard against hackers and secure public wifi. And by the way, forget any others, NordVPN is the fastest VPN on the market, providing smooth

streams with no lagging or buffering, and it can be used on 10 devices. To get a huge discount on your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. Can I ask you a question, Mark? Yes, Simon. When it gets to September, I know that our kids aren't at school or anything like that,

but my brother and I are the same. I still get nervous. There is still something about about maybe it's a temperature change or it's a smell change or something. But occasionally I suddenly have that kind of new school, new class, that feeling that you get who is going to be in my class, who's my teacher going to be, all of that kind of stuff. And I still suddenly, I get literally butterflies when we turn into September. Is that peculiar to me? Do you have any of that? No. I have the opposite because I find summer challenging. I find sunshine and

all that stuff slightly antithetical. You're like Dracula. No, no, no, not Dracula, but my favorite season is autumn. I love the autumn. So the first of September, there we go. We're back into home ground and then it's windmills of your mind and the autumn leaves are turning to the color of her hair and everything. I love the autumn. It's my favorite, favorite, favorite season.

So no, I actually feel completely opposite. I love the autumn. It's my favourite, favourite, favourite season. So no, I actually feel completely opposite. I do love autumn. I do think autumn is fantastic, but I still get nervous. It's interesting. I don't recognise the thing. And it's funny because usually if you sort of mention it, I mean, I've at least got a version, but no, no, I don't get that at all. No, no, absolutely not. I just get, we're through the summer. Right, now it's autumn. Did you look forward to going back to school? I didn't not look forward to it. I mean, I didn't like school. I thought, you know, I didn't like school at all, but it was, I didn't like much. I mean, to be honest with

you, that my main memory of the summer would be my mom saying, why do you want to sit inside a darkened cinema watching beneath the Planet of the Apes when the sun is out and you could go to the swimming pool, the outdoor Lido, which from my point of view was hell on wheels, you know, a whole day spent at the outdoor Lido in North Finchley. All I wanted to do was be down the road watching Planet of the Apes movies. As soon as the autumn came in, it's like, fine, now can I just go back to my normal life, which is Monday to Friday is the hellscape of school. Then I just go to the cinema for the rest of the time. There's a whole bunch of movies I haven't seen. I know Boz Skaggs would agree with you, but I still think it's Lido. Anyway,

we have a very, very entertaining show, I think, lined up, but you have to tell us what you're doing, Mark. So reviews of, well, there's yet another Spider-Man reissued, Spider-Man Homecoming, as you know, they're all being reissued back in cinema. We have Starvaker, which is a terrific new British movie to review. And also, it's a long time since we did a Take It or Leave It, You Decide. And there has been a welter of emails saying, what about Robot Dreams? You didn't do that when it first came out. I did see it, although we didn't have time to do it on the show. So, Robot Dreams, we will also be doing at Popular Request. And we'll be continuing our World Cups with the World Cup of Meryl Streep performances.

All of this and all episodes ad free for the Vanguard. We've got some questions, Schmestgens dropping tomorrow, by which I mean Friday, and you get ad free episodes of Ben Babysmith and Nimone's Shrink the Box, just delivering and arriving when you're least expecting it. So if you are already a Vanguard Easter as ever, we salute you. We salute you. We salute you. So Philip Rabie, humble devotee, not worthy to touch the hem of your garment. Simon. Sorry. An email from Philip Rabie to us. Okay. This is my bit and not your bit. Not supposed to say the word Simon.

Oh, I see. Sorry. I thought that was the beginning of the reveal letter. Simon. Okay. I could have pretended. Simon and Mark. So this is part of our competition to find the most elaborate, fulsome and obsequious reviews on Apple podcasts. And this one flooded in from Philip Rabee. So Philip, thank you. Simon. There have been many great twosomes in the history of world culture. Hamlet and Horatio, Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Horatio's dead. Holmes and Watson. He's not a twosome. A.K.A. Cumberbatch and Freeman. Batman and Robin, Lennon and McCartney, Harry Kane and Son Hyeong Min. Batcham Freeman, Batman and Robin, Lennon and McCartney, Harry Kane and Son Heung-Min, even Morkham and Wise.

But I defy any sentient being to argue with the demonstrable fact that the greatest dynamic duo of all is that supreme broadcasting pair known all around the world as Kermode and Mayo. Even Prince wrote a song to celebrate their celebrity. Nothing compares to you two. I have been privileged to witness their slow but inexorable, normally that would be decline, ascent to Olympian heights of world domination from their humble beginnings in the print media and local radio until a destiny

greater than fate brought them together, whereupon the heavens opened and choirs of angels sang songs by the carpenters along with tubular bells. This inseparable and insuperable team have graced the airwaves of the universe for nearly 40 years, attaining ever higher heights of excellence, insight, wit and wisdom. Avengers-like, they have assembled a team around them, led by the great redactor, that's why this got on, without whom nothing of value would occur. He is universally acknowledged as their very own George Martin. Excuse me. My only regret in sending this iconium is that I am limited to a mere five stars. Surely there should be a wholly new range of scoring for such supreme beings. And so,

without further ado, I award them 500 stars, along with their very own joint star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, they stand alone." Fabulous. I should say, of course, Horatio's not dead. It's Jorick who's dead. It's a last for Jorick. I knew him Horatio, because Horatio's actually still alive at the end of the play, isn't he? Doesn't Hamlet die in Horatio's or anywhere else? Yeah, Don Quixote, I mean, John Lennon's dead. Yeah, no, that'sulous. I just, yes. Eric Morkman, Ernie Wise are dead.

I know, but not Horatio. Yeah, so excuse me for John Lennon. Okay, Meryl Streep World Cup. So, yes, here's how the round of 16, the quarters and the semi-finals went, and then we need your participation. So, quarterfinals, adaptation versus the Deer Hunter.

The Devil Wears Prada plays Mamma Mia, The Hours plays Kramer versus Kramer and The Post plays Sophie's Choice. So first of all, select Mark if you will, adaptation versus deer hunter. Who do you think is going to win? Well, adaptation, the deer hunter is a terrible, I mean, the deer hunter is obviously the one that will have the popular vote because people, it was, you know, it won the Deer Hunter is a terrible, I mean, the Deer Hunter is obviously the one that will have the popular vote because people, it won the Oscar for best film ludicrously, but adaptation is a much better movie than the Deer Hunter. Yes, the Deer Hunter wins that one. Then the Devil Wears Prada plays Mamma Mia. That's hard.

I suspect it will be the Devil Wears Prada. You are correct. 68 plays 31 on that. So then The Hours plays Kramer vs. Kramer. How do you see that one? Kramer vs. Kramer definitely. And The Post plays Sophie's Choice. I'd have voted for The Post, but what would you have gone for? I really like The Post. Sophie's Choice was the point at which the Meryl Streep is the greatest living actress thing began. So I suspect it's Sophie's choice.

Correct. It is. So that gives us the semi-finals, the Deer Hunter against The Devil Wears Prada and Kramer versus Kramer against Sophie's choice. So Deer Hunter versus Devil. What do you think? Well, I would just love it beyond belief if The Devil Wears Prada beat The Deer Hunter. It has done. No, your wish is granted. Yes! Oh, that's fantastic! 56% to 44%. Oh, what a joy.

What a joy. The Devil Wears Prada beats the Deer Hunter. Boom! So, through into the final, the Devil Wears Prada. Second semi-finalist, Kramer versus Kramer versus Sophie's Choice. Kramer versus Kramer, I think. Is the right answer. 65% to 35%.

So in the final of the Merrill Street World Cup, it's the Devil Wears Prada versus Kramer versus Kramer. So we've got a little age memoir here. We'll play you a couple of clips. So first of all, let's play you some Kramer versus Kramer, it's the court scene. I don't think my little boy should be punished. Billy's only seven years old.

He needs me. I'm not saying he doesn't need his father, but I really believe he needs me more. I was his mommy for five and a half years. And Ted took over that role for 18 months. But I don't know how anybody can possibly believe that I have less of a stake in mothering that little boy than Mr. Kramer does. I'm his mother. I'm his mother. So Kramer versus Kramer against the devil wears Prada.

Here is Meryl in that film. There you are, Emily. How many times do I have to scream your name? Actually it's Andy. Is Andy? Andrea, but everybody calls me Andy. I need 10 or 15 skirts from Calvin Klein. What kind of skirts do you use?

Please bore someone else with your questions and make sure we have Pier 59 at 8 a.m. tomorrow. And remind Jocelyn I need to see a few of those satchels that Mark is doing in the pony. And then tell Simone I'll take Jackie if Maggie isn't available. Did Demarchelier confirm? D-Demarchelier? Demarchelier? Did he get him on the phone? Oh, okay.

And Emily? Yes. That's all. Pizzicato strings always mean standby. the payoff is coming. Okay, so that's she's fabulous. The fabulous Meryl Streng in The Devil Wears Prada playing Kramer versus Kramer. We'll bring you the results a little bit later on. I like these World Cups. These are fun. Let us know if you think there's another World Cup that we should be doing. You should just let us know about that correspondence at kermannamow.com. What is Outwatch should we be looking at? So, new movie Starvaker, which is a weirdy 70s set British folk horror gothic story set

The Yorkshire Dales, kind of comes on like Wicker Tree meets Rosemary's Bunny. It's written and directed by Daniel Cocotelo, who wrote and directed the 2017 film Apostasy about two siblings in a tight-knit Jehovah's Witness community. You might have read stuff about the Apostasy. There was a lot of press about Apostasy. One, the Writers Guild of Britain, who won the first screenplay. This film is based on a novel which I haven't read by Andrew Michael Hurley. Again, it is about arcane religious beliefs in Britain, although this time altogether more earthy. So it stars Morvith Clark, who is absolutely brilliant in Saint Maud.

I just thought she was fabulous in that. And apparently it was seeing her in Saint Maud that made the director think, yes, she's the person for the job. So her and Matt Smith, they're Juliet and Richard, the setting is mid-70s as I said, so reel-to-reel tape recorders, no mobile phones. They've moved back to the rural area where he grew up. He had a troubled childhood here, not helped by his dad's interest in folklore, but his dad's tales of ancient demons waiting to be summoned. They have a young son who is exhibiting strange, violent sometimes behavior. They take him to a doctor who arranges a brain scan. This is like

a very British version of the exorcist. In the exorcist, it's all the high-tech scanner thing. Here, it's a doctor who straps a weird metal thing on his head. Richard is an archaeologist who thinks that his beloved son's problems come from the fact that he's being told creepy folk tales of the kind that his father was interested in by the likes of Gordon, who's quite big in his life. He prefers to tell his son stories about the land that they're on. There's a famous story about an old tree that was there. The roots of it are apparently buried in the land. It was a very, very important tree. And then something tragic happens and Richard starts retreating into his father's interest in the pagan mythology. And Juliet reluctantly agrees to try meditation and then things get very weird. Anyway, here is a little taster of the tone of Starvaker. Let it out.

It's gone now, Mummy. What's gone? It's like... ...whistling. He said someone called Jack Gray is whistling to him. Wow, that's scary stuff. I know, isn't it? But it's got it okay, so properly, properly creepy. So there's one shot in the film, a view out of a house of two people standing in a field.

One of them is holding up three fingers and is looking towards us and the other has their back turned towards us and has their arms up in the air. And it is one of these really strangely striking, creepy images that you're not quite sure why it's, you know, as bizarre as it is. And it really reminded me of there's a couple of images like that in Ben Wheatley's film, A Field in England, which I really like. Ben Wheatley, of course, also made In the Earth, which is a sort of British folk horror with a standing stone in it, which would be very good on a double bill with Mark Jenkins, Ennis Mane. So if you're thinking about those films and you like those films and you like that kind of, like I said, the Wicker Man is the big ubertext of all of this. If you like Ennis Mane and

if you like In the Earth and if you like that, this is absolutely for you. It's got a very eerie score. It's not trippy in the same way that Field in England is positively hallucinogenic. Ennis Mane is much more just to do with the brooding sense of the past is all around us. So it's not particularly trippy but what it is, in that clip that you heard there, you heard the music in the background, the score is Matthew Herbert, there's an awful lot of stuff going on in the soundtrack. What it is, is it's peculiar. It is very, very peculiar. There's a kind of nursery rhyme thing going on, which again is very Wiccan man, which becomes very much a part of the narrative. I mean, the larger story is a kind of classic pagan story of death, rebirth, resurrection, death, all that sort of. And at times it sort of flirts with

silliness. I mean, there is one sequence in it in which I was reminded of the killer rabbit of Cabanagos, you know, from, from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, you know, with big, big teeth. Doesn't that deflate the whole film if you're starting to laugh? No, it doesn't. No, because I didn't laugh at it. What's interesting is this, particularly if you're talking about British folk horror, there are things in British folk horror that are on the border of funny and sinister. I would say that the perfect example of that is if you think about the scene in The Wicker Man when Howie first arrives at Summer Isle,

and you suddenly see all these locals wearing, like one of them's got a rabbit mask and one of them's got, you know, they're all wearing these animal masks. I mean, on the one hand, it's ludicrous. It's just silly. It's people wearing animal masks. On the other hand, it's really, really creepy. And because, you know, hairs are a very big part of, I mean, if you think of, there's a whole thing in Wiccan Man, isn't it, about the grave of Rowan Morrison and then the fact that in the grave there's a hair rather than a girl, because that is all tied up with British folklore and the way in which certain animals are part of British folklore. There is something about them which is funny, but funny creepy. And so there is humour in there. I mean, there is definitely

there is because the great thing about British folklore is it is so weird. I mean, it's there's a very thin line between that and the League of Gentlemen or, like Mark Gatiss who absolutely straddles that thing between comedy and horror. And I think that because this has such a brilliant central performance by Moffat Gogg who is just fantastic, she's the linchpin. She makes scenes that absolutely should not work, work because you believe that she is there in the moment. I mean, her face has got this extraordinary quality to it. She really looks like she is looking into the abyss and the abyss is looking back into her. I was really impressed by it, actually. As I said, yes, you're quite right. Anything that you think, if something brings up Monty Python, doesn't that make it automatically

not scary? But I think that the genius of British folk horror when it's done properly is that it's so peculiar, you don't know whether to laugh or scream. And I think this is definitely in that area. I hesitate to ask, why is it called Starbaker? Although that's the name of the place. Starbaker. Although that's the name of the, it's the name of the place. So it's, but it's also, also I think partly, you know what you were saying about Paul Simon, a crosses in the ballpark doesn't mean anything sounds. This is on another recording that they did.

Yes. But it was a conversation that you and I had. Which was about, in case you missed it, it was just about the way sometimes Paul Simon uses words and sentences because he likes the way they sound in the song rather than the meaning in it. Precisely. Well, Starvaker is something about the way that sounds that is absolutely perfect. Is that going to have a decent release? Yes, I think it will do. I think it will do. I think it will do. It's definitely worth checking out. I mean, decent in the same way that, you know, in the earth and Ennis Mane did. So yeah, but definitely well worth checking out.

More Spider-Man in a moment. Hi, this is Mark. Longtime listeners will remember that a few years ago, I reviewed French filmmaker Coralie Fargeot's striking feature debut Revenge, a retina scorching horror thriller with real feminist bite. Earlier this year, Farja's long-awaited second feature The Substance bowed at Cannes where it went down a storm with Farja winning the Best Screenplay award, a body horror thriller from a director who cites Cronenberg, Carpenter, Lynch and Hanukkah as key influences. The Substance stars Margaret Qualley, Dennis Quaid and Demi Moore in what's been called her finest hour, with Time Out comparing a performance of that of Isabella Gianni in

possession. I can't wait to see the film, which Mubi are opening in cinemas on September the 20th. Visit trythessubstance.com for showtimes and tickets. And as always, you can try Mubi for free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's at MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Now, the following is an advert from Better Help Therapy. Now, do you feel like you still make time for yourself to learn? Like actually learn something new, try out a new experience? Kids, they do it all the time. It's like instinctive, but we lose that instinct as we get older. And it could be anything, could be taking up gardening, learning the piano.

For me, it's probably via my kids. They play me new music that I really need to hear because I'm listening to the same stuff over and over again. It's beautiful. So you can go back to school at any age and therapy can help you rediscover that sense of wonder that trying something new gives you. So if you're thinking of starting, why not give Better Help a try? It's online, it's flexible, can be suited to your schedule. All you do is you fill out this short questionnaire,

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Visit betterhelp.com slash curmode today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash curmode. Well, this year has seen a whole bunch of Spider-Men movies and there is another one this week to discuss. Yeah. So this is now in the time that you and I have been doing film criticism stuff, Simon, this is Spider-Man Homecoming is the third incarnation of Spider-Man since we've been doing it. So, you know, after Tobey McGuire and Andrew Garfield, now Tom Holland steps into the spandex. This is also, and I've never really got my head around all this stuff.

This is MCU phase three. Okay. Yeah. If you say so, that's what, if I say so and I, I, well I only say so because I, because it it says it I've never really understood what the Marvel Cinematic Universe phase three is or isn't anyway so other cast members include Zendaya who would of course go on to be the lead in challenges and June and now you know huge big movie star Michael Keaton as Vulture Tony Robillory's flash film was a was a hit, 880 million, second biggest global IMAX opening for a Sony film. Anyway, big thing. Here is a clip from Spider-Man. Here's a clip from Spider-Man Homecoming, and then we'll talk about the film. You're the Spider-Man from YouTube. I'm not. I'm not. You were on the ceiling. No, I wasn't. Ned, what are you doing in my room?

You may let me in. You said we the ceiling. No I wasn't. Ned, what are you doing in my room? You mailed me in. You said we were going to finish a Death Star. You can't just bust in in my room. That turkey meatloaf recipe is a disaster. Let's go to dinner. Ty, Ned? You want Ty? Yeah.

No, he's got a thing. A thing to do after. Okay. Maybe put on some clothes. Oh, she doesn't know. Nobody knows. Why me? Mrs. Stark knows because he made my soup, but that's it.

Was Tony Stark late to the wedding? No, he's not. Tony Stark is late. Tony Stark is late. Tony Stark is late. Tony Stark is late. Maybe put on some clothes. Oh, she doesn't know! Nobody knows! Why me, Mr. Stark knows, because he made my suit, but that's it! Was Tony Stark made you that? Are you an Avenger? Yeah, basically. Oh, God. You can't tell anybody about this. You've got to keep it a secret.

So, so much going on in there. So, Tom Holland, Jacob Butler, Maurice Tomei, Peter Parker, best friend, his mom. The fact that are you basically an Avenger because the story is about him being an apprentice Avenger. I'd forgotten that Iron Man made his suit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the set. And if you remember, one of the best lines in the movie is, if you are nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it. And that's the kind of the

coming of age thing because there's the bit at the beginning where he goes, you're Spider-Man from YouTube. So that tells us, you know, the generational Spider-Man that we're on. The fact that there's all this stuff about, yeah, there's a suit, but he has to earn the suit. He has to earn the suit. It's not the thing. I mean, here's the best way of thinking about this. If you remember Logan, right? Logan is basically a grim character study film about aging. It just happens to be posing as a superhero movie. Well, this is Ferris Bueller's day off, but with Spider-Man. I mean, in fact, there is actually a very direct Ferris Bueller's day off gag in the film, which they then blow by actively citing Ferris Bueller, which is

one of those moments they do something and it is a Ferris Bueller thing. You think, oh, that's smart. That's a Ferris Bueller reference. And then they literally go, it's a Ferris Bueller reference, which is like, yeah, okay, we were there beforehand. So, Robert Downey Jr. is saying, why can't you just be a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man? You're growing up too fast. You've got to stop doing just calmly. you've got to earn the right to be the Avenger. Michael Keaton, very different kind of Birdman and actually, you know, more fun than Birdman. So I like this. I thought the tone was upbeat, jolly, lively. It's got the teen angst stuff in it, but it's not overwhelmed with darkness. I mean, it does, it does play very much like a kind of indiespirited angsty, you know, teen drama about somebody

wrestling with their identity, even though of course what it actually is, is a huge behemoth movie. I mean, it's directed by John Watts, who had made a bunch of other things, but cop car. And it still, it has that sort of slightly anarchic feeling about it. So I mean, I was pleasantly surprised by it. I thought it was oddly charming and sweet. And it's much more back to the, you know, the Spider-Man thing about it's a boy. It's a boy who's dealing with school, but is also dealing with the fact that he's been bitten by a radioactive spider. And it's one of the very few Marvel movies in which I would say stay to the very end. Actually stay to the very end. Not because you have to,

but because it is worth staying to the very end. Post credits, you mean? Yeah, the very end. Okay. And do the special effects hold up? Because sometimes they look a bit clunky from back in the day. Yeah. Although this isn't that far back in the day. I think now when you look at the original Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies, I mean, I said this at the time, I said that I thought that the stuff of Spider-Man swinging through the skyscrapers, even when it came out, looked

a bit pony because they just look like animated sequences. And I know there's an argument which is, yeah, well, of course they look like animated sequences because special effects are animation and it's a, you know, and it's a comic strip, which is certainly too alive. Yeah, but they're not meant to do that. Or if anyone tells you they're meant to do that, they're making an excuse. You know, it's a, it's a very ad hoc author, but no, it's, it's, yeah, but no, it holds up surprisingly well. Spider-Man Homecoming is the latest Spider-Man to be discussed and it's the ads in a moment. But first of all, with a certain swing.

Heaviness of heart. No, no, no, there is no, there is only levity and joy. Our hats are at a jaunty angle because here we go, it's the laughter left again. It's a little bit call and response this week. I don't know, Simon. What do healthy zombies eat for breakfast? Graaaaaaaaa break-furious. Breakfast. I know it's when you break your fast. You have to say breakfast and then break-furious. Hey Mark, what are the two things you can never eat for breakfast? I don't know Simon, what are the two things you can never eat for breakfast? Lunch and dinner. Duh. Hey Mark, how do you turn

deviled eggs into normal eggs? Exorcise them? You perform an exorcism, correct? Oh, an exorcism? An exorcism? Even better. I'm going to be very generous now and let you have the very old continental punchline to this final so-called joke.

Okay. Why don't French people eat two eggs for breakfast? Because one egg is enough. Plus ça change, c'est la même chose. Originally from 1849, Jean-Baptiste Alfons Car said that. Mark, what is Still to Come? Still to Come, a, oh, it's one of the Take It Or Leave It You Decides, which we haven't done for a long time, but we've had requests for Robot Dreams, which I saw when it came out, we didn't get a chance to review it because we had a very, very full show. So Robot Dreams.

Plus, it's the final of the World Cup of Merrill Street performances. Marvelous. Do you ever feel like you're the only one navigating life's ups and downs? Well, guess what? You're not alone. It's Anna Richardson here and my podcast, It Can't Just Be Me, helps you realize that you're not the only one. Join me as I sit down with incredible celebrity guests and experts to dive into life's biggest topics and covering their very own It Can't Just Be Me moments. Expect revelations, honest anecdotes and a few laughs about the challenges and obstacles that life throws at us. Listen and follow new episodes now wherever you get your podcasts. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching.

And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio. Pop Culture Moms. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. Just checked in with the, I'm not going to say which way it's leaning in the Kramer versus Kramer versus Devil Wears Prada, but it's looking a little bit Euro referendum kind of result. So it's going to be very, it's going to be very close.

We should definitely be calling it Kramer versus Devil. Okay. Or Kramer versus Prada. The Devil Wears Kramer? Actually, that's good. The Devil Wears Kramer. Okay. That's pretty good. The result before we're done. Anyway, an email here from, I guess you say this is called Ario, A-R-Y-O in Tufnall Park. Would you say Ario? I think so. A-R-Y-O. Yeah, sounds like it. Ario? Ario. That sounds more like a name. So let's say Ario. It also sounds like a greeting.

Ario. Ario in like a name. So let's say Ario. It also sounds like a greeting. Ario. Ario in toughened parts. It sounds like the minions. Ario. Dear Jack and Rose, a challenge for you. Using virtual nudges, winks, metaphors, you-know-whos, pet names, nicknames, and paraphrases, can you please describe the saddest deaths in movie history, but without spoiling them. I have compiled a list below. Describe why they are sad or not in such a way that those of us who've seen the film know what you're talking about and those that haven't won't know.

I'm lost already. Well, here comes a list of deaths in movies. I can't be bothered to play the game that Ario is suggesting, but the saddest deaths in movies is quite an interesting one. From Ario's list, Jack in Titanic, Earl in Magnolia, Ellie in Up, sidebar, is that film actually good or is that sequence so good that we forgive the rest of this very ordinary film? Anyhow. Mufasa in The Lion King, Han Solo, Star Wars The Force Awakens, Andrew Beckett in Philadelphia, Bing Bong in Inside Out, Bambi's mother, Hector in Cocoa, John, I'm choking up, John Coffey in The Green Mile, Hedwig in Harry Potter. The unfortunate incident, you're not allowed to say that.

Well, no, the unfortunate incident is Dumbledore. He doesn't even turn up in this list. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought your unfortunate incident was Hedwig. No, I think it's Dumbledore, isn't it? I think so. I remember watching Child 2 when she got to that bit in the book and the kind of gasp that came from her was very powerful. But the unfortunate incident, I always thought the unfortunate incident was Hedwig getting shot off the broomstick.

But anyway, I think it's numbers. Anyway, and also Jack Twist in Brokeback Mountain. So what springs to mind if you were to talk about the saddest deaths in movies? But you have to do, what's the wing nudge thing about? I think basically it's a way of describing it without being a spoiler. Without giving it away, okay. But to be honest, you've just given a whole bunch of deaths away. And I think we're talking about, so you know, that the unfortunate incident was appropriate at the time, but I think most people

know that Dumbledore dies. I mean, I think that, well, this is just me, I know. I think that one of the saddest demises in movies, Ev's, is the end of Silent Running when, so it's heartbreaking, when the drone who's been, well, firstly, the first drone, there's three drones. The first one gets ripped off in a storm. The second one, Bruce Dern runs down by mistake and then has to fix. Then at the very, very end, the last drone is left alone in the geodesic dome on his own. Drone alone in a dome. Drone alone in a dome because Bruce Dern says to the damaged drone, you're not well enough. And

then Bruce, and then I'm not sure I'm give it away, but then- Put yourself together. But then that happened. It's so stupid. Firstly, because it's off screen and secondly, because it's a robot. And actually we'll talk talk about this a bit when we talk about robot dreams in a moment. I think that is one of the saddest demises in the history of cinema. What about you? Well, I was going to... Okay. This conversation has to be had with spoilers because that's just the way of it. Because these deaths tend to happen at key points in the film. So, you know, the fact that

Beth in Little Women dies is a well-known fact because the book is very old. I'm talking about the Greta Gerwig one. I think Logan, although obviously that's the whole thing, you know, that it's his movie. And the Tom Hanks character. Oh, I thought you meant Logan Royce. Sorry. No, no, no, no. Logan in Logan. Captain Miller. Is that the name of Tom Hanks character in Saving Private Ryan? So that's, I think that's it. But also I would just mention of Harry Potter. By the time you've realized that Snape has been kind of a goody, that's very sad as well. So they're just ones that come to mind. So we've completely ignored Aereo's suggestion of not being explicit because what's the point really?

I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. In a not explicit way, I'm going to, I'm going to flag up one of the, the actually the saddest and strangest death sequences in a movie. Okay. And only a certain number of people will get this, which would be everyone. Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer. Are you a robot dying. Nod, swing, snudge. I actually think that scene is, I can feel it, Dave. I can feel it. I love that scene.

Are we, is that a good, it's a good lead up for robot dreams, I think, isn't it? Weirdly enough, it's almost as if we planned it. This is impeccable production. I think the full credit for this needs to go to the redactor. Do you have an email to read out or am I just leaping straight in? I can do that. Ewan Donaldson. Ewan says, Dear Robot and Dreams, medium term list in the midst of the Kermode verse.

I've listened to almost all of Mark's books, which I love, and I'm about to jump into the Simon verse with itch. Oh, okay. So he's listening to them. Okay. Yes, excellent. The difference is that Mark reads his books and- I do.

I have actors because I can't do other voices. But my books are all about me, so my voice is fine. Okay, that's true. I'll keep this short, says Ewan, as we are now midway through the year, I'm reflecting on my, more than halfway, I'm reflecting on my top films of the year so far. Horde is right up there, a cathartic, visceral experience that floored me. But the one film I can't quite shake is Robot Dreams.

Robot Dreams is a beautifully crafted animation about a lonely dog living in a Manhattan apartment who decides to buy a robot to fill the void in his life. It's profound, heartfelt, and made me feel how I imagined Mark felt watching Jeremy for the first time. Okay, maybe that's a tad over the top. But you see, I did read Hatchet Job. Well, you listen to it. Without giving any spoilers, I was a mess at the end of the film. Oh, okay. Well, I think that's a spoiler spoiler personally. The music, the animation, in fact, it has zero dialogue, but still conveys so much with its attention to detail and heart. It's just an incredible achievement. So to my surprise, I can't see any reviews from yourselves on this fantastic movie. So please watch if you can, and I hope you enjoyed as much as I did.

Thank you for all you do keep up the good work. Hello to Jason, that's you and Donaldson. Thank you. Well, as Mark has said, Mark did watch it when it came out, but sometimes if it's a very busy period, stuff gets left out, but not now. Here we go. Yes, firstly, I should say it isn't a plot spoiler, what he said, your assumption about why the end is bittersweet, it may not be what you think.

So it's a Spanish-French, essentially dialogue-free, tragicomic animation about, as we would just call a dog and a robot. It's directed by Pablo, I don't know if it's Berger or Berger, B-E-R-G-R, who was previously known for Blanket and the Evils, which I really, really liked, and Torramelino 73, which I didn't particularly like. That was about a struggling, about an encyclopedia salesman who stumbles into X-rated movies. Blankenewitz was very, very good. It was kind of a snow white thing.

So this is his first animated feature based on a comic by Sara Varun, which I haven't read. This play that can in 23 came out in cinemas here in March and it was weird because if you remember the way that cinema releases work, there was a bunch of nothing and then a bunch of everything all at the same time. This was nominated best animated feature at the Oscar. It won the Goya.

My colleague at The Observer, Wendy Eide, who was a huge animation fan, raved about this. In fact, I think she led on it in The Observer. She said, if any further evidence were needed to support the theory that we are enjoying a new boom time for quality animation, then this is it. And she's right. And it's something that I've said many times we are going through it. We are in a golden age of animation. So the animation is simple, kind of almost nostalgic 2D animation that basically matches the style of the source

material. It's East Village Manhattan, 80s, the dog is lonely, scrolling through TV channels, comes across an advert for a robot friend, YAMC 2000, orders the robot, robot arrives, assembles it, voila while they hit it off and then what happens because this is dog is just lived in the apartment. Very much remove from was seeing the world go by through the windows and then once dog has the the robot companion. Starts to see the world through the robot size eyes. The robot is just amazed by everything because the robot's new and it's like, you know, the world's amazing.

And so now the dog starts to see the world through the eyes of this robot and see how great it would be to be a part of everything. So you were asking me either at the beginning of this or maybe a previous podcast about September, so Earth, Wind and Fire song September plays a sort of key role in this, particularly in the secrets and the sort of discovering the world. And then something happens at Coney Island, which means it basically throws cold water on their dreams and robot is forced to endure a long period alone dreaming of their last friend.

And that's, you know, I won't say anymore because the film then sort of, you know, what's dreams, what's real becomes a sort of a key thing. This put me in mind of a bunch of movies which I love. There was a rash of movies about lonely people and AI companions. And I know that the one that everyone refers to is her, although I didn't, I wasn't a fan of her. But Robot and Frank, which is wonderful when this, you know, older person gets given a companion robot that he immediately turns into an accomplice for crime. Brian and Charles about this guy living alone inventing things and he's alone, so he invents a robot out of a washing machine and it's Charles Patricia. I mean, even AI, the Spielberg film with that end vision of the little boy, I know he's not a little boy because he's a robot,

at the bottom of the sea with the light on, just stuck alone with his dreams and memories and it's absolutely heartbreaking. All those things I was thinking of when I was watching Robot Dreams. And I remember Robbie Robbie Colin of this parish really liked it as well and said the genius of it is that the children will be enchanted and the parents will be in bits. Well, absolutely the parents will be in bits thing is exactly just, it is a very, very moving film about loneliness and also about overcoming

loneliness and about the way in which friendship can be a strange, malleable, changeable thing. And if it has a message, I think it's really to do with it's better to be engaging with the world than to not be engaging with the world. I think even putting a meaning on it is as bold as that. Look, it's whatever anyone makes of it, but it's definitely, you're going to tear up, so take a hang. Where can I see Robot Dreams? Well, I imagine that now it's probably on streaming services. It was in cinemas, but it's been and gone from cinemas, So I imagine it's available on streaming services. Okay. It does sound one, two, it sounds quite remarkable really.

I watched about five minutes of it, which I managed to find online. And it is very, very engaging in how they've managed to make the fact that it has no words. It doesn't seem to matter at all. Exactly. It's like the genius of silent cinema. You know, it's the universal language of performance. I know it's. It's the universal language of performance. I know it's an animation, but the universal language of performance is extraordinarily universal.

I will say once again, Mike Figgis said this. They always widely available to rent or buy, the redactor says in the chat box. Mike Figgis said this thing that before they invented sound cinema on Ellis Island, they used to have a silent film that showed immigrants arriving in America how to understand the world that they were about to arrive in. And it was silent and they just understood it because it was moving images. And it didn't matter what language they spoke, they just understood it. Timeless, timeless stuff.

Robot Dreams, thank you very much indeed. We'll be back with more in just a moment. Tim's has the flatbread pizza you love at a price that you won't want to skip. Served hot out of the oven in four delicious flavors. Simply cheese, chicken parmesan, pepperoni and bacon everything starting at only $6.99 plus tax. Order yours now. Terms and conditions apply at participating restaurants in Canada.

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I have kind of four out of 10 excitement factor for the new one. I hope it's not reliant on CGI. Kim excitement factor about 25 out of 10, I would think, but doubt it will be better. Don't care. We'll watch anyway. And there'll be a bunch of people who just think, no, I would think, but doubt it will be better, don't care, we'll watch anyway. And there'll be a bunch of people who just think, no, I'm going to watch it. Daniel Cooper, aka Smurf Lord, aka Gore Bag, that's an intriguing sequence of names, loved the original, saw the trailer for the sequel, but wasn't hooked, looked like a rehashed cash grab. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Dave says, I kind of don't want it to just rehash everything from the first. From the trailer, we've seen sand worms and a few visual ha-has, which seem to be just callbacks. It does need to be fresh. And Justin Shepard says, liked it at the time, but in context of Burton's later work, it really lost its sheen for me. It's well acted, of course, and it still looks great, but it's nowhere

near as subversive as it thinks it is. So nought out of 10, excitement factor. How excited are you? I'm not excited. Justin thank you. And you're going to review our next week's podcast. Yes. I mean, we should point out this week's podcast is an early record for us because it's that time of year when we're all in different places. We're not here. Beetlejuice, I mean, on a podcast, we're never here, are we really? No, exactly. We're just, but always just behind the bins. Okay, so Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice will be

reviewed next week. So the World Cup of Meryl Streep, the final. Yes. Okay. So it has been, this is entirely down to your voting Kramer versus Kramer against Devil Wears Prada. And the result is in, that doesn't, can you do a drum roll? That's very good. And your camera shook, which gives added emphasis. Kramer versus Kramer, 48%. Devil Wears Prada, 52%. There you go.

It's the Euro referendum all over again. 52 plays 48. The nation is divided. The nation will be bitter and it will definitely put a chasm between the Prada people and the Kramer people and they will never forgive each other. Exactly. And then in a few years' time, there'll be discussions as to whether we can paper over

the cracks and maybe we can move slightly towards the Kramer end of things. But the devil people, the Prada people, they'll be going, no, no, no, the people have voted and we can't vote again. But the Kramer people will be going, well, I think it's our duty to look at the world in a different way. And maybe we can nudge towards, and then after a while, most people will reflect that they voted for the wrong film and they wish they'd voted for Kramer, but they didn't. And it's too late and there's nothing we can do about it. Unfinished business. I think that's the way it is. I'm glad you got that off your chest. Yeah. That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production.

This week's team, Lily, Vicky, Zachy, Matty and Bethy. The producer was Jim. The redactor, Simon, Paul, Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, I want everyone to go and see Starbaker. Take two for the Vanguard with you tomorrow. And it's a one frame back, times X, we can watch this, we cannot list special on the best and worst of Tim Burton. And yes, we did the X, the times, the definitive five you'll love and the three you're not going to hate really because it's Tim Burton.

Unless you're the person who gave no points for how excited you are, in which case, you know, we'll be back. There'll be another one that you'll like in a few days time time. Correspondence at kermannamayer.com. Thank you for listening.