Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Your next podcast: Origins with Cush Jumbo, starring David Schwimmer

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

Mark and Simon think you'll love Origins with Cush Jumbo. In this podcast, Cush meets some of the stars of stage and screen, and so they're giving you a little taster of what you can expect to hear. Here's an exert from Cush's episode with David Schwimmer, a master of comedy, who we all feel we know insideout as Ross Geller. He appeared in 236 episodes of Friends, runs his own theatre company (for the last 36 years!), is a dad and also a great friend of Cush's. They discuss his early jobs before Friends, and a serious role he had to turn down decades ago, that might have changed everything. If you enjoy this teaser, head over to https://pod.link/1761431583 and follow the show so you don't miss an episode. A Sony Music Entertainment production Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Simon and Mark here. Just want to tell you about a brand new show from Sony Music, Origins with Kush Jumbo. You might know Kush from The Good Wife and The Good Fight, where she played Luca Quinn. She's most recently been seen in Criminal Record on Apple TV and about to star opposite David Tennant in Macbeth on the West End. She's now got her own podcast, Origins, a show where the biggest names in entertainment tell Kush the stories that made them who they are today. We've got a taster of an episode. Here she is talking to David Schwimmer. This is his second Origins story and he goes into the jobs he did before fame and the major role

that could have changed his life. Okay, so we're going to move into your second origin story because this is beautifully kicked us off. So we're going to go back to when you were 18 and you came for a summer school in the UK. Oh, yeah. So I'm just going to set the scene a little bit, right? Because this makes me laugh while I was thinking about this. It's 1984, is that right? 1984? No, it was the summer of 85. So I went to college when I was 17. So I started Northwestern

as 17-year-old freshman in 84. And then that following summer of 85, I believe it was- You got to do a summer kind of. I did, yeah, British American Drama Academy. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. BADA at Oxford University. Yes, in the summer of 85. I believe that's correct. My mother was heavily pregnant with me,

so that's what was going on in the UK. I felt that. Did you feel those vibes? Yeah, I felt that vibe that pulled me to the UK across the Atlantic. I'm calling this origin story David's hot boy summer. Because you essentially got on a plane, came to the UK. I'm assuming you'd never been to the UK before. Was this your first trip?

I think that's right. And so you get to Oxford to do this summer school. You've got an accent, you're this like swaggering good looking 18 year old. You're there to do some acting. You have some amazing teachers there. Do you remember it as your hot boy summer or do you remember it slightly differently? I've never thought of it that way, but I mean-

I just tried to imagine because it's just a different world. I did okay. Can you remember what you were wearing? Oh my gosh. Yeah, okay, I do remember. So I had kind had longish hair and I remember wearing, I had this jacket at the time which was a jean jacket, but it was bleached. It was like bleached denim, so it was like white, baby blue,

faded, beat up with one of those collars that was a cotton shawl. It was almost like that cowboy collar, the white cotton. Was it slightly tattered? A little bit, and I would wear jeans a lot. Double denim, nice. Double denim and sometimes black cowboy boots. I love it. Any facial hair going on or were you clean shaven there? I wasn't growing much then.

I think I had some stubble, but it's not like I could grow a full beard then. Did you notice that your accent had an impact on the ladies of Oxford? I don't think I was conscious of that. I had a great summer and two of my teachers in particular, Brian Cox was one of my teachers and Rosemary Harris, who was my Shakespeare. You studied Ipsen, Chekhov, Shakespeare, you know. And yeah, that was an incredible experience. Did you know by then that this was definitely what you wanted to do, regardless of whether your parents might think you should do it or not?

Yeah, I knew it was my thing, my calling. Your destiny. All right, so we've got to talk about around this time, I'm slightly aligning time together, but around this time is when you did some mad jobs, David, right? Yeah. I'd just like you to tell me about some of these jobs. So first of all, is this all around the same time, like 17, 18? Are you back from the summer at this point? So I did most of my jobs over the summers.

I was very lucky that my parents were doing well enough that I didn't have to work while I was in school like many of my friends did. So I could devote all my time to study and rehearsal and things. So that was, I was really lucky. But every summer I would work. Even in high school I was working, my first job was at Steve's Ice Cream. And it was one, it was like the first place in, I think in the world, where And it was like the first place in, I think in the world, where you had like a marble slab and you had like these giant steel spatulas and you would kind of blend in. Someone would come and say, okay, I want vanilla

with Snickers bar and add this. And you would chop up and blend in all kinds of ice, you know, candy with ice cream, cookies, nuts. That was my first job for, you know, minimum wage, which was $3.35 an hour. Wow. I mean, it was kind of a joke because you wouldn't make any tips really, you'd make maybe six bucks in tips. So I would work eight hours and I think I'd walk out of there with literally

like 40 bucks. And that's actually quite a lot of scooping and mixing actually, eight hours. Yeah, it's a lot. It was good bicep work. So anyway. That was Steve's ice cream. Can you tell me about the telephone sales of the tone up? Yeah, oh my gosh. Please. the telephone sales of the tone up, please. Dude. Okay. So my parents said before I went away to college, they said you have to work this summer. So I'm like, okay.

So I got this job. I saw an ad for it. I don't know how I got it, but I had to drive to this building that had no windows, so they were kind of boarded up. It was blacked out building, and it was just a bunch of seats and phones in this building.

What we were doing was I was taught, there was a whole script you had to memorize and learn, but you would get referrals of numbers. There was sheets and sheets of referrals. Because I was in California, the job would start and you'd be calling people right when the business is opened on the East Coast and in Florida and everything.

Someone would answer the phone and say, and I pretend to be the person that sold them their copy machine. I would basically be, hi, I see you have a Ricoh X500, and you're running low on toner and developer. I can get that out to you right away.

I just need, and all these people would be selling toner and developer replacement cartridges to businesses all across the country. Georgie Tunny Who thought they were buying it from who they bought their copier from? David Morgan Yes, and I would be posing as the rep who sold them. Georgie Tunny In the script, did it tell you what to do if they were like, sorry, excuse me, where are you calling from? David Morgan Yes, I don't remember now, but I was 17. But we would do this and again, you'd make a small commission based on your sales

and like minimum wage, which was $3.30 an hour, whatever. So I was doing this for about two months and then my parents were like, how's it going? And like, I don't know how my parents, who are two lawyers, weren't on top of this. But I said, yeah, it's going well. I'm doing well. Got my bonus. I'm the best tone of salesman out there. I show up one day and the whole place is boarded up. It was raided. They shut you down?

It was a total illegal operation. So I'm like, oh, guess my job's done. Did anyone come and question you or anything? No, nothing. Never. Yeah, they were shipping out copy machine supplies. So were you just like, yeah, so okay, that's my job gone. Yeah, but that was the summer before college. And then at some point in college, one summer I was a roller skating waiter at Ed DeBebix, which is this great Chicago burger joint. And I was really good on roller skates.

Did you used to do tricks or something? Yeah, yeah, you'd jump over, you'd line up kids and then you'd jump over them. That's how you'd make all your tips really is like entertaining and almost killing the kids. I love that there was no health and safety aspects to this world that you're talking about. It's like you just lay down your kid in front of some random guy, teenager in fact, on roller skate and you go, please jump over my child, I'll give you five bucks. That's right.

That's the world that we used to live in. It was much better, I think. Can you still roller skate now? Yeah. Are you good? Can you do it? I'm good. I can't do what I used to be able to do in terms of jumping over.

And also I would go, I was able to do this one stunt which you go really fast, jump in the air, turn around and land on your stops, you know, on your toe stops and skid for like 15, 20 feet on your stop and leave a huge mark, which was fun. That's the kind of trick that you can kind of hit 35 and you start thinking about your knees more. Yeah, couldn't do it now. Did you ever weight tables? Oh, God,. Loads. I waited at a Mexican restaurant on the South bank and I would audition during, like I remember running to the national really fast to do an audition for like restoration

comedy and then running back to like serve, serve again at Christmas time or something. No, I did. Oh my God, David, I did so many jobs. I did cleaning. I worked in a strip club, but just cleaning tables. But very good tips, though, because there's a lot of cleanup in strip clubs. Yeah, I did loads and loads of jobs, but I similarly think that's where I collected a lot of stuff on those jobs. So I'd highly recommend it to actors. I ended up waiting tables for almost seven years after college before friends. You know, as a struggling actor in LA, the restaurant industry was a lifesaver.

Yeah, it's everywhere. They'd let you go to go, like I get a job, I get a TV job, recurring role on a TV show. All your friends think you've made it. You're a playlist. You got four on a TV show. All your friends think you've made it. Yeah, you're famous. You got four episodes on some show. I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. But you make nothing or you make so little that you have to keep your waiting job. So luckily, the restaurant I was with, The Daily Grill in LA, the management would let me go.

They let you back, yeah. Then they just take you off the schedule, and then they put you back on. Amazing. That was for seven years. That's how I survived. I remember when I did the spin-off of Doctor Who, I did Torchwood, and it was like I did a recurring character,

as you said, not well-paid. Your friends are like, you've done it. The Oscar is coming, it's yours. Your friends are like, you've done it. The Oscar is coming. It's yours. And I was working on a pancake stall. And you're on one of the biggest shows ever. So people think, oh my God. And it's going out. It went out every night over five nights. It was going out. And I remember people coming to the stall and being like, what are you doing here? And I was like, dude, I can't pay my rent. I had the exact same experience.

The first time I was ever aired on television was an episode of The Wonder Years. Oh my God. And actually, I did one gig before that, but this is what I remember. I remember that my first episode on The Wonder Years was airing on the TV at the bar. The restaurant I was working in had a bar, and the TV, and I was waiting tables. I was taking an order, and the bartender was like, yo, Schwimmer. And I look over, and there I am on the TV, my first time on television. And then I turn back to my table and go, would you like Thousand Islands or ranch dressing?

You know, it's like... Still sparkling or tap. Yeah, exactly. But this is the reality. Like you, things didn't really happen for me for six or seven years. That's the statistics. And even if you end up working, you don't continue working. There are many actors well into their 40s who are going still in and out of side jobs because this is the life. This is like what you do. David, I am very

excited to get into this third origin story with you because I don't think people would immediately associate somebody who has got to your level on screen with the Edinburgh Fringe. But something you did quite amazingly in this story, were you around 20? Yeah. Can you tell me what happened? Yeah, sure. As much as I loved acting, I was also an aspiring director. I wanted to direct my first play at Northwestern. But when I went to the theater department,

I said I want to put up casting notices. Can I use one of the university's theaters, small theaters to put on my play? They're like, no, you haven't taken the necessary directing courses with the right directors. I was like, but I don't like those directors. I don't like their work. Why do I have to take a course with them

before I can start directing? And they were just like, you can't. And I was like, okay. So I found a space off campus to put on the play and I used my Bar Mitzvah money to produce it. And I put up casting notices and I cast the play and I used my Bar Mitzvah money to produce it. I put up casting notices and I cast the play and it became like an off-campus hit and it did very well. As a producer, as my first producing gig,

I actually made money. Which is unheard of, by the way. It was a success, this play. Six actors, I knew about the Enboro Fringe Festival, and being the arrogant person, young person I was, and ambitious person I was, I went to the dean of the School of Speech. I met with him in his office and I said, Hi, listen, I've just produced this play off campus. here are the reviews, it did really well. I think you should send me and the cast to represent

Northwestern and the city of Chicago. Wow. This is what I said, I was so full of myself. At the Edinburgh Festival in Scotland, this huge international theater festival, I think you should send us. Then I had a budget and it was $10,000, all in for the two-week run or whatever and flights and accommodation.

The dean, to his credit, said, I'll tell you what, if you raise 5,000, I'll match you. Wow. So me and my crew, like my actors, we put on a fundraiser in the city of Chicago, actually at Second City, we did a fundraiser in the city of Chicago, actually at Second City. We did a fundraiser and we ended up raising the money, the dean matched it, and we ended up going and taking this play I directed to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And we had the most amazing

experience. We saw so much great, great, and not so great theater. That's the beauty of Edinburgh. much great, great, and not so great theater. That's the beauty of Edinburgh. Yeah. It was just amazing. That experience actually gave me the confidence to start a theater company. That's where Looking Glass came from, the idea. Because you enjoyed being more in control of it,

or because there was more to make than just the acting. I think over the years at Northwestern, the four years there and that experience at Edinburgh, we developed a kind of process, rehearsal process, a creative process that we wanted to continue developing. That was very different from what was being done conventionally at Northwestern. Again, as I told you, I'm highly competitive.

Steppenwolf was the company, the ensemble, the premier acting ensemble in Chicago at the time. Our goal was to be the next Steppenwolf, to be the next big ensemble theater company in Chicago. Not only did you do it, but 36 years later, it's still a theater company. You're still doing it.

Yeah, still going. COVID really hurt. We had to shut our doors for 19 months. We're now on the rebound and we're about to have our first production this January, our first production back since COVID. That's fantastic. You are very involved with Looking Glass. How do you manage to divide up your time

with all the other things that you do? Well, it's my direct involvement in terms of the either acting on stage or directing plays has been reduced a lot over the years. I think the last play I directed was right before COVID, right before the pandemic. Because I've got a family here in New York and a kid in school, and I just can't be there as much for three,

four months at a time, but I'm heavily involved weekly. Although it's a true democracy, the company is run like no other I know of. It's really majority vote and it's a large ensemble. So there's no one person that decides anything. It's really the will of the group. I want you to direct more theater.

I want to be in something that you direct here. I would love to work with you that way. David, I also read that you turned down another role while you were doing Friends, which was Men in Black. It would have been a big decision because the filming schedule would have been completely different to do a film Andy Friends. Oh yeah, that's not why I turned it down. What really came into that decision? So that was a brutal decision. I had just finished filming The Paul Bearer, my first film with Gwyneth Paltrow, and there were high expectations of that,

Paltrow and there were high expectations of that, which didn't come true. It was kind of a bomb. But there were high expectations and the studio, which was Miramax, wanted to lock me into a three-picture deal at a fixed price. I said, I would do that if I got to direct my first movie. You're so ballsy, David. After months of negotiations,

they finally said, I got in writing that I would act in three more movies for them, but I got to direct my entire theater company in my first film. All these unknown actors, but I was going to put them on the map basically. I was going to let everyone discover the talent of this amazing company. We found this amazing script and we were developing it.

We started pre-production. All my best friends in the world in my theater company quit their jobs. So they could be in this film over the summer, which was going to be a six-week shoot in Chicago. Budget set, we're in pre-production, hired the whole crew, everything's going. That's when I was offered Men in Black.

It was a direct conflict with, my summer window from Friends was four months. I had a four-month hiatus, and Men in Black was going to shoot exactly when I was going to direct this film with my company. Of course, it was an amazing opportunity. You have to follow your gut.

You have to follow your heart. Look, I'm really aware, whatever, 20 years later, maybe more. That would have made me, I think, a movie star. I mean, if you look at the success of that film and that franchise, I would, my career would be in a very different, might have taken, probably would have taken a very different trajectory. However, my theater company and that relationship

with all those people would probably have ended.