Killing Dad: The Crystal Howell Story - 11: Killing Dad Bonus Episode: Crystal's Attempted Suicide

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Crucial new information and behind the scenes secrets. The shocking revelation that Crystal attempted suicide during the making of this show. Don't miss this exclusive, bonus episode. 

El oleaje en las playas de la costa daurada. El silencio en una iglesia románica. La tramuntana es ilvando en el capda creus. El bullicio de las fiestas populares. El pálpito de ciudades con carácter. Cataluña, banda sonora del viaje de tu vida. Mira el vídeo en esta casa.cataluña.com. Hey listeners of Killing Data, first degree mistake. Thank you for taking this 10 week journey with us and tuning in to the series. We wanted to give you an extra episode because the

story it's far from over and we have some new information that we wanted to share with you. A few behind the scenes stories on the Making of the Series. And there were actually two very personal incidents that occurred while making this. And we wanted to share both of them with you. Hello, I'm Melissa McCarty. Hello, everybody. And I'm Kelly McLear. So again, thank you, everybody, for taking the time to listen to Crystal Story.

We want to get started with some new information that we feel is critical to the case. You know, we've been trying to get access to Crystal's full case file for about the last two years now. We've had bits and pieces of it, but we finally have her entire case file. And we know that some of you have some questions regarding Crystal's account of her story and everything that happened and wonder how much of it is true. We hope that by listening to the polygraph examination that we did that that answered some of your questions, but you know we were limited in the questions of the polygraph for anybody that knows how they work. You're only allowed a certain number of questions. So first we want to address the stories of abuse at the hands of her

father Michael Howell, the victim. Now it's not easy talking about allegations like this when someone has been murdered. So we are sticking to the facts from the legal documents that we've obtained. You know interviews were conducted with Crystal's family in preparation for her defense that never happened. And these are interviews that were done by her defense team while gathering the facts. Right. So we're going to go through three or four family interviews highlighting critical points which fall under mitigating circumstances never used in her defense or on her sentencing, which is a shame. And we're talking about it now because, you know, she's fighting for her life. And hopefully one day she can use this information in a recentencing hearing if she's fighting for her life and hopefully one day she can use this information in

recentencing hearing if she's able to get that far. So we're going to start off with the great aunt on the mom side. Again, legal documents here from Marion Louise Downing. And this, we're sharing this information because it really kind of cooperates crystal's narrative and what she's been trying to say about her father. So Marianne Downing, the great aunt on the mom side, says to investigators that yes, crystal had some mental health and behavioral issues as a teen growing up, but the mom and her entire side of the family, they wanted to get crystal some medication, but the mom was always at odds with the father who didn't approve of medication or mental health treatment of any kind because he has a long family history of mental health

issues with various family members in he didn't want crystal stigmatized. When it comes to the marriage, this is eyewitness accounts here. She says that the mom, Christina spoke about wanting to leave Michael prior to Christel's birth Because Michael had issues early on that she struggled with but she never left and she always feared leaving Michael Because she said that she feared the father would take custody over Sierra and if they divorced she feared that because Michael Howell had more money and power. Now, Marian also goes on to say that Michael Howell was, quote, not quite right, saying he was generally mean to Christel's mother, Christina, and he had hostile and aggressive behaviors towards his wife.

It was verbally, physically abusive to the mom, Christina and sister Sierra throughout the courtship and marriage. Again, this is the great aunt speaking, saying that Michael would discipline Sierra out of proportion to what actually occurred, leaving her with welts all over her body, something that Crystal talks about as well. The great aunt says that Crystal also was the subject of Michael's abuse growing up. The entire family would make threats to Michael that they would call the department of social services,

but unfortunately known in the family ever ended up making those calls. And she remembers when it came to the divorce and the separation, she does remember the dad, Michael, threatening suicide over it. So I want to talk about Sierra a little bit. Episode 10, there's a very emotional letter that Crystal writes to her sister, Sierra. And as of today, of recording this one, I do not believe that Sierra has reached Dr. Crystal. I do not believe that they still are not speaking. But again, in the reports and the documents that we've

obtained, Sierra did say that their father, Michael, had anger issues and was depressed. Sierra was aware that he suffered from mental illness in the past, but what to extend she didn't know. She also reports that being aware of his version to mental health, like Melissa just talked about, especially in terms of having treatment related to his family and because of his family issues. Sierra also added that Michael was very physically abusive towards her. Sierra even states that he used a belt buckle to severely punish her on occasions. And she said that his

spankings and beatings left wealth and bruises. She says that their Aunt Mary and also was witnessed as some of this and had pictures to prove it. Also during the time of divorce, Sierra also talks about him being very abusive towards Christina, their mother, and that he began stalking her after they got a divorce to which the police got involved and that is something that Crystal does address in the podcast. And so also that was cooperated by Sierra in these documents that we've obtained. And let's get to the big interview with the mom, Christina. When investigators were talking to her, she refers to Crystal growing up as an

impulsive, challenging, and active child. And when it comes to the marriage with Michael Howell, she says that Michael suffered from bouts of depression, mood swings, smoked marijuana excessively, and was physically, emotionally, and verbally abusive to her. She says that Crystal saw and knew about her dad's treatment of mom. And in 2007, Christina said that Michael grabbed a knife, making a gesture, to gesture, to cut himself after she said that she wanted to separate and divorce. Now, when Crystal left to go and live with her dad, Michael. The mom admits having very little awareness. This is important information, very little awareness of what transpired in the house between dad and daughter,

saying that she had quote poor communication with her daughter during that time, saying she would only exchange surface level text messages. So the mom had no clue which cooperates crystals narrative that she felt isolated on this mountaintop in this massive house with her and her dad, no one to turn to for help. And when I talk about one other person, and that is a woman by the name of Bobby, who is another maternal grade aunt, and the one who told Michael that Sierra was not his biological daughter. Now, this is on Christina's side of the family. And this aunt said that Christina would rather attend to her own needs versus Crystal. And Crystal always sought her mom's approval,

but was usually turned away. Crystal made several attempts to return home from her dad's house, but was told no. And when Crystal was allowed to come back to her mom's house, she was often sent away or threatened to be sent away by her mom if she stepped out of line. So Crystal's thoughts and feelings of not being wanted by her mother again are cooperated by another family member. Also, you know, it just goes to to show Crystal, you know, she did have this loving bond. Her dad was her best friend for a very long time.

They were the closest. Sierra and Christina were close. Crystal and Michael were close. But there were many times when, you know, Crystal started to notice the escalating mindset o clostos, cristal y Michael, están clostos, pero hay muchas veces cuando cristal empezó a ver la escelentidad y las behaviors de su padre y no quería ir con él y ella hacía ir a casa y no era bien, así que era la situación. El Museo Picasso Málaga presenta Picasso es cultor, al igual que en el resto de su creación, la escultura de Picasso se distingue por innovar en el uso de técnicas y materiales poco ortodoxos. Puedes imaginar cuáles y como, descubrela. And I do want to say this again. We did reach out to Christina numerous of times for an interview and she never returned any of her phone calls or messages.

You know, Crystal also asked her mother to do it and she didn't respond to her with that Brenda tried. We even went to Sierra's house to try to, you know, go face to face with her and see if she would agree to speak with us, but she was not home at the time. We didn't leave her a note. Now, Melissa, you have spoken with Christina and Sierra in the past a few years ago.

What was it like to meet them? Yeah, I sat down with Christina and Sierra for several hours years ago. And this is before you know, I had any communication or connection with Crystal at all. It was just their version of events and she was very transparent and honest about the affair and you know, Sierra not being Michael's biological child

and the regrets that she had. She was you know, seemingly open and lovely and she didn't want to participate in the podcast. I can only assume because it's Crystal's story and she didn't know what would come out. I think there's regret. I mean, how could you not listen to all 10 parts and not have some kind of regret or I didn't know I wasn't aware. We know that she's listening and I hope one day to talk to her because I think, you know, I wish I knew about this documented abuse that she went through in her marriage. I wish I knew and I wish you would talk about it because I think not only, not for us,

not for you and I, it for Crystal to help Crystal, at least in a sentencing phase, I think it would have been important. So that door is always, always open. Well, and I also think that Christina and Sierra are victims as well, you know, not, not just the hands of what happened to their father, but the abuse by Michael Howell and the bad marriage. So, you know, their, their side of the story is definitely as important as crystals is. And I hope that one day, you know, they will talk to us.

Two other people I really want to thank and express our sincerest gratitude towards is summer and tailor. You know, they still live with the trauma of what happened that day and those weeks afterwards at the mountaintop house. And they are so brave for continuing to share their story. And I just want to thank them from the bottom of my heart,

Melissa, I think I speak for you too, when we are so grateful for their participation in this and in their bravery. And I just want to commend them for that. And I hope they go on to live amazing, amazing lives and have families and wonderful careers and they're just such lovely people and there's kind of a funny backstory to how they agreed to come on and participate in the podcast. Melissa came out to visit me and I don't live too far from from Hayward County, North Carolina.

So Melissa came out for about two weeks. I think right Melissa you're out visit me and I don't live too far from from Hayward County, North Carolina. So Melissa came out for about two weeks. I think right Melissa, you're out here for when we were traipsing all over the southeast, looking for everybody involved in this story. And Melissa got some rentailer to meet us at a barbecue joint in in Hayward County. Maggie Valley. Yeah. In Maggie Valley, exactly. Which is beautiful, by the way.

It's such a beautiful city. It's so great. And shout out to that barbecue place. It was actually some of the best barbecue for us, and I've ever had. But they're both lovely people. And we had a great, like hour and a half lunch or so. And we said, would you guys agree to do the podcast? And they said, yes. And we said, okay, when, you know, thinking we would just schedule a time to come the podcast? And they said yes. And we said, okay, when, you know, thinking we would just schedule a time to come back later. And they said, how about right now? And so luckily, I loaded up all of our podcast equipment

in the car just in case they did say yes and think goodness they did. And Melissa, there's a funny story about where we went to do the interviews. Starbucks. We were like all caffeinated. And you know, like summer would wait in the car while we interview her car, while we interviewed a tailor in hours for several hours. And that was huge. And then Taylor would step out for several hours

while we sat with summer in a car doing this emotional walkthrough. And, you know, it's something that they were stigmatized by. And the residents, there's hopefully not a lot, but one or two residents would still harass them, remember their stories of residents still linking them to this incident, which is so insane to me. But they went through this vulnerable, horrific moment with us in a car, in a backseat for hours and hours and we were just very grateful to them because their story, their input in it was, it was huge,

it was everything, it's important. Their eyewitnesses. Yep, all that in a Starbucks parking lawn in the back of my SUV. And then we went and then we had to go door knocking, we were searching for the boyfriends of crystals past and one of them Arthur who she was with and he had the unfortunate experience of witnessing her being handcuffed and arrested by homicide detectives in that hotel and we were just door knocking trying to find him and he was so shocked when we knocked on his door. It was like, what is going on? But that's, you know, on the boots journalism, just having addresses, having a name, trying to track somebody, and like literally knocking until you hopefully find the person. Yeah, so we thank him to for sharing his story with us. He said he would, you know, you don't want to do it right then and there that day, which was totally fine. And he said, you know, but no, we'll schedule something later. And you know, people say that and there that day, which was totally fine. And he said, you know, but no, we'll schedule something later.

And you know, people say that and they never do. And then they go stew and they never return phone calls, but he did it. He kept his word. Yeah, he kept his word and he did it. And you know, and of course we want to thank Brenda for sharing her story and being such a supporter and advocate for crystal.

She has been nothing but hospitable and wonderful during this whole process. And I think you can tell that in her interview is how much she cares for crystal. And you know, another thing I really want to talk about because it is really at the thread of the entire series killing dad is that, you know, mental health is so important. And you really, I think the stigma nowadays is less and less

and less about getting mental health care treatment that you need. And Crystal is working on that. She is, you know, the in-sign prison system. You know, I'm not there, so I can't really speak on behalf of it. But, you know, I do know that she still struggles, but she is getting the help that she needs. And thank you here in episode 10. We had a bit of a speed bump, shall we say, during the make of all, making of all of this.

And Melissa, you were the one that got the phone call. Yeah, we're making the podcast and I don't hear from Crystal. I mean, we email every single day, phone calls every week or two. And we had already recorded a bunch of her life story, but we were just over halfway through and I get a phone call from an inmate, not crystal. And she informs me that crystal made a suicide attempt. And she was in the hospital. And we, that's all we knew. We didn't know if she was going to live, if she was going to die. We didn't know how severe it was. And the inmate that called me didn't know. And we also know that at the time, she didn't want Brenda,

who's her biggest advocate in such a strong supporter, she didn't want Brenda to know. And so it was tough because we know that Crystal was talking about the murder for the first time ever. We know that what that does to a person's psyche and it takes them to a dark place. We also know the podcast became her purpose, her reason to fight and exist. It was important she got her story out. She felt like she was strong armed and signing this plea deal and she wants a chance to get out.

So we know that this is something she wholeheartedly wanted to do, but when you relive something like this and you say it out loud for the first time, I can only imagine what goes through a young person or any person's mind when reliving a murder that they committed. So she made this suicide attempt and it was just, I remember crying, I called you, I was crying. It was so devastating because we also didn't know how what the ending would be. And that's why episode 10 is so emotional, is I wasn't on that call. It was just Kelly and Crystal. And we learned that Crystal made a really deep, deep cut to her neck. And it was incredibly aggressive. It was something she hadn't done before. In her past, she was very open about suicide attempts. There were some

of them were very superficial cuts, but this one wasn't. And I think that is what ignited the emotion with that conversation between Kelly and Crystal in episode 10 is our heart ached on having this happen while she was in this vulnerable place with us. Yeah, you know, I think that's why it was so emotional for me. I remember it was like seven eight o'clock at night when she called and you know, look, we had already gotten the news that, you know, she was out, she was in the clear out of the the med ward. And I was not expecting us to go there when we when we did that that section you heard in episode 10

and it's comes from a very, very deep place. And a part of me didn't feel like we were responsible for her doing that by, of saying, yeah, by opening up all these wounds. And so there was definitely that guilt and, oh, gosh, did we make her do, like, we'd make her do it, but, you know, did we put her in that place that was so, such a dangerous place to go. And I think that was also very eye-opening for her because after that, and after we were done all of our official interviews with Crystal, you know, like I said, where she is housed, she's not that far from me, and so it's very easy for me to go up and visit her, and I've gone to see her quite a few times, pay her visits. And I always enjoy our conversations over there. And I remember the first time I went to see her by myself,

the visitation was two hours. It was for two hours. And she looks at me. She's like, I don't know what we're going to talk about for two hours, because by then, we had already spoken to her probably 20 times. We have so many recordings with Crystal. So she's like, you know everything about me. I don, I would we have so many recordings with Crystal. So, you know, she's like, I you know everything about me.

I don't know what we're going to talk about for two hours now. And next thing you know, you blink and the guards are like, all right, wrap it up, everybody out. And we both looked at each other like, that was the fastest two hours ever. We just talked about anything and everything under the sun. But after she had that suicide attempt going to see her and seeing the scar on her neck, I know she was very nervous about me, you know, seeing her that way. I was nervous too.

You know, and she said, I just, I felt like I let you down. And I'm like, no, you know, while I'm at it, you I'm happy you're okay. But we had a nice conversation about it. And, you know, while I'm at it, you I'm happy you're okay, but we had a nice conversation about it and and you know, she hasn't tried since and She's in it. I think she's in a much better place now you know Going through this this whole process and I think it's definitely helped with her healing In her mental health and you know, it's funny whenever we go and I go see her and we talk

You know, she always asks about my dogs, you know, because she had her dog Teddy, I love their dad, so she just loves animals. And so she always asks about the dogs and all that kind of stuff. And she just, you remember things. And she's such a caring, lovely person. And Melissa, you witnessed that firsthand as well when you had an incident in your family.

Yeah, it talks about the who crystal is, right? She is this incredibly creative, gifted, incredible writer, big-hearted person. And, you know, she did this horrible thing, but this isn't the entirety of who she is. And again, we did this over a year, Kelly and I. We've been talking to her for years. The making of this was well over a year.

Oh, Melissa, it's been like three years probably. I mean, I remember, I'm not to cut you off here, but I remember you were at my house in Colorado when you got the email from Crystal saying she would agree to do it. And that was over three years ago. So it's been some time. Yeah, and again, you know,

this story that I'm gonna go into, it's not my story. That's not the intention, but it's important to mention to show who I think is the true person of crystal. So during the making of this, I had a few personal incidents that occurred. You know, my brother was shot.

He survived, thankfully, but then in September of last year, 2022, he was in a coma for two months. And because Crystal and I talked every single day in an email, I had to notify her because she's always been so vulnerable and open with us. I wanted to be the same with her. I always told her the truth about what was going on in my life. And I said, hey, my brother's in a coma. As she knows that just to kind of explain, my brother's had a really, really tough life. He's struggled, I think, his life has been more suffering and pain than joy, unfortunately. And so leaving it there, he was in a coma. I had to tell Crystal,

you won't be hearing from me for a while because I don't know if he's going to live or die, and I need to go be by his side, by his bedside. So a month or two past, he was out of his coma, and I was telling her that, hey, I'm back, you know, how have you been? She was asking me about my brother. And I said, well, he can't speak because he is a ventilator, keeping him alive and he can't walk. He has to relearn how to use his body after laying there for two months, but he is a walking miracle. And the next thing you know, I get a letter in the mail from Crystal. It is a letter that she wrote to my brother. And I just was so shocked by it. And she's such an artist and she's so open about herself. She sketched an image of herself. And it's her hair

up in a ponytail, her big, huge blue eyes. And she actually wrote with a red, a gash on her neck, signifying where she cut herself. So that was in the caricature that she drew for me. And I'm gonna read you the letter. Gonna read you Crystal's letter to my brother. Says, I didn't have a recent photo, so I doodle this and she points to the caricature of herself. My room looks like the sequel to the movie Twister,

but I really don't feel like cleaning or organizing, so I'll sit here and write you a letter instead. So hi, I know nothing about you really, other than the fact that you are Melissa's brother, and you know nothing about me, other than the fact that I have a messy room. So that's a pretty level playing field. I like being a stranger.

I met your sister because I am the subject of this podcast she's doing. So I'm sure that you can guess where I'm at spoiler alert. I'm in prison. I'm a professional inmate. I have been since I was 17 years old. I am now 26 years old and my daydream is that I'll get out in the next five years, but I'm kind of just wishing on Dandy Lions at this point. Maybe someday. Got to stay cautiously optimistic, right? I know that you're in a bit of a bind right now in the hospital, basically a prison with wires and tubes where they are nicer to you. I'm sure. I know it's probably boring and I'm unsure if you were able to read, but I'll send you a letter every Monday so you can have some light reading and you were able to reply. If so, here's my information.

She goes on to say, how are you? She goes on to say, how old are you? Can you get books and stuff? You should check out this series. It's a court of thrones and roses. I've never heard of it. But she says, if you can, I've been reading it a while back and it's pretty good.

I've been too busy crafting lately to read and Christmas is coming and all that. So I'm forcing, it's forcing me to be creative. Well, I just wanted to write you a quick one to lay out my intro. I'll tell you a little bit more about me this next week. Something has been tugging at my soul, telling me to reach out to you.

So I asked Melissa and she said yes. I think maybe brokenness? I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think maybe brokenness is our commonality? I don't know. But I wanted to shine a little ray of light on your life. And I'm doing this thing lately called trying to find my purpose.

Maybe we can help each other along the way. Sorry. It's true. There are two broken hearts and souls and they're good. And I relate on many levels. So I haven't read that in a long time. But the first time I'm hearing that too. I knew she wrote the letter, but I, you know, obviously that's between the three of you.

And she's just, she does have a good heart. She does. Yeah. And I read that to him because he obviously wasn't able to speak and read and hold the paper. So I read it to him and he loved it. All right, Melissa Walsh, officially we both cried down in this podcast. So there you go.

I want to, I want to lighten the load here. Lighten the mood here for just a second. You know, I always tell Melissa not to read the comments that people say about the podcast. And you know, it's the morbid curiosity, right? Of wanting to read it, but not running to read it. And I think all the people out there that, you know, had some really positive things to say

and thank you for listening and everything. And, you know, like my husband, Oee says, though, opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one. I want to address one comment in particular, and I would not normally do this, but I want to because I think it's important because it actually really, really offended me. The title of the comment was great story, but not respectfully told. Yeah, that one hurt me too.

That could not be further from the truth. That's a flat out lie. Because there is nothing that we have done that has been disrespectful and actually we've done it all with with respect. And the person goes on to say that they thought it was disrespectful because it was all done over the phone out in the open in her dorm. They could have at least went to visit her where she had some privacy to share their story with them. You could not be more wrong and I'm not going to say the name of this person. Number one, it's a prison. They don't have a voiceover booth and the prison for her to go and do this. She is an incarcerated person. Number two, you were not allowed

to bring recording devices into the prison. So it's not like we could bring in our phone and do a recording. So that is a flat out, a lie, for this person to say that. Second of all, I think by Crystal doing these interviews the way she did them, and at times she was in her room where she could close the door. And she was able to go behind a closed door,

other times she had to be out in the open. But it also goes to show you how brave she was in telling her story and to be able to do this in front of everybody. This person went on to say, this entire thing was made to get followers and likes not to actually tell her story or because they care about telling her story.

Sorry that you feel this way, but that could not be further from the truth. There's anything that anybody knows about me. I do not give a shit about followers and clicks and likes, or anything like that. I hardly post on social media. I do not care if people know me or know my name. The importance of this was getting Crystal's story out,

getting her a redo sentence, and that's why we did it. If you noticed, this was not about me in Melissa. It is 100% about Crystal. Kelly ran over. And just adding that, you know, she's fighting for a second chance. She's fighting to reduce the 30 to life. And we are in no way going to paraphrase something this significant.

Could we have used less of the prison call with not what that wasn't flawless audio? Yeah, but in no way did I want that weight on my shoulders in paraphrasing. There's too many podcasts out there that don't even have accurate information. So I'm not going to paraphrase her words. It's a murder she committed and she's going to tell it. You know, so again, very few, thankfully, of the 400,000 plus downloads and growing every single week, very few. but yeah, some of those comments were, we're looking, we shouldn't be looking, but that one we did want to address.

Now, I want to also say on the note of the audio, Crystal, the incredible singer, she grew up singing in the church, very creative girl. And we wanted to hear her voice. So, amazing grace is one that was like a free use that anyone can sing without licensing. Not her first choice of song granted, but we, and again, also she's singing from Anson Prison,

but we have it, we wanna share it with you. And again, thank you for listening. We wanna remind everybody that if you do feel that Crystal does deserve a reduced sentence, we created a petition on change.org entitled Reduce Crystal Howell Sentence. So I urge you all if you would take the time to sign that petition. And if you have a comment or a message to send to Crystal, you can drop that there. And I'll be sure to get that to her. Thank you again, everybody for listening. We really appreciate it. Amazing, very.

How sweet that sounds. That's a girl inside you see. How I'm so close. But now I'm calm. But now I'm a cow, but I'm fine, but now I see.