Kitbag Conversations - Episode 26: No News, Just Bullshit

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

This week Kagan Dunlap (@kagan.dunlap) came back on and we talked about: - China  - Russia  - Tribalism  - Culture  - And more 

Hey, we're live. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Crotone Report. This week, we're joined again by Kagan Dunlap. He was on a few weeks ago. We talked about China this week. We're going to talk about gym education, whatever else comes on top of our minds. So, hey, man, how are you doing today? Hey, how's it going, man? Good to be back. Thanks for having me. Oh, absolutely. I know we just spoke for 10 minutes about nothing. So, I think we should keep that going for about 60 more minutes. Sounds good. Easy enough, man.

Yeah, it's speaking about the world, though. I mean, Ukraine is doing incredible in their counteroffensive against the Russians. Armenia is getting invaded, as Jake Handrahan would say. Nobody cares. Wagner is recruiting prisoners to go fight and die for motherland. There's a lot going on in the world, especially in our flashpoints. We're not even talking about China yet. Like, there's a lot going on. Yeah, there's... I'm trying to remember. Let me see if I can find... Oh, here it is. So, yeah, Izium, right? Izium was where the big push was. And you've been seeing the stuff about the graves, the mass gravesite that he exhumed all the bodies from.

Oh, yeah, something like... I think they found 400 bodies. Some had arms tied behind their backs, and others were execution style. And I mean, I follow a lot of the... Oh, yeah, civilians. It's not even combatants. And I follow a lot of the Russian news on Telegram and Twitter, and their counter argument is, oh, no, these are civilians killed in the crossfire from the Ukrainians. And so the Russians actually buried them because they're more humane than the Ukrainian. Please don't understand that we are the bad guy. We're out here actually taking care of people. And then Ukraine goes, why were there 400 people noncombatants buried in a forest? And he was like, are you listening to me? I'm trying to tell you that you're wrong.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of... There's a lot. Man, the propaganda machine is in full force out there. I mean, it is everywhere, but for sure out there in the Russia and Ukraine, they've both got their own propaganda machines that are just pumping out stuff to convince people of whatever narrative it is they want them to believe. Exactly. Whenever anything comes out, it's... If it's reported from the Russians first of the Ukrainians, at this point, I don't trust either side because one, they're both going to use whatever they can to make themselves look better. And then two, it's like, I don't know, everyone always goes back to the ghosty Kiev saying that he was real and Ukraine came out and said, yeah, we made him up. He was more of a propaganda piece than

anything else. And then you're like, yeah, Sam Hyde, right? Come on. Yeah. Well, they... I think the thing about that mass grave is that the fact that there were numerous children, apparently, involved in it too. And that's when things get... People talk about mass graves and it's like, okay, when everyone thinks it's all adults, they're like, okay, well, that's still terrible. But then when they start hearing that there were kids involved in it too, then it's like, okay, now we're starting to cross over a line that some people may have drawn in the sand at one point where they're like, okay, I'm not going to get upset about it. But now, now it's like, okay, now it's extremely serious. So there's a lot of talks about war crimes and

stuff like that. It's oddly reminiscent of Bukha from a few months ago where North Kiev gets liberated and they go, what the fuck? All these people just come down execution style in the streets. And then, you know, I mean, in Bukha, or Bucha, however you pronounce it, the Russians just up and left really quick, but they've been in East Ukraine for months, years. So it's... They almost planned... It's just looking at it like they were buried very specific, as in no one would ever find this. And it's actually kind of funny how Ukraine shows up and immediately went, what's going on over here? And then immediately found all the graves. But... Yeah, I mean, they probably stumbled upon it with like, just doing patrol-based operations,

I would imagine. Well, because I mean... I'll go right ahead. No, I was just going to say there, you know, I've been following a lot of dudes that are on the ground, like foreign volunteer groups of guys that are like from France and UK and America, and they're doing your traditional patrol-based operations, man. They're just pushing dismounted through the country. And, you know, they'll set up shop for a little bit and they'll keep pushing, but they're doing it in a coordinated manner so they don't get too far ahead and get encircled or things like that. But I guarantee that they were probably just on a regular foot patrol,

and somebody saw a bunch of crosses and they're like, hey, what's going on here? And they're like, hey, give me your shovel or each or whatever it is they got. Start pulling, seeing what's in there, you know? But, like, I understand what you're saying. They were, Ukrainians are doing their lily pad, their leapfrog, you know, moving in. And then, but for the Russians to put crosses on top of the graves, where in other parts of, say, like, Crimea, everywhere else, they just had unmarked mass graves, just big World War II style, big pits. It's like, why did they do it in Izim and not anywhere else? That's kind of strange. Maybe it's the Buka information came out and everyone went, yeah, we can't get caught doing

this again. So let's just get caught looking better. It's, I don't know, it's kind of weird, like thinking, you know, putting yourself in the Russian perspective of maybe there was a humane officer out there, maybe, I don't know. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure. So I've talked to, do you know, you know, the guy battles in beers? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he's a good dude. I've had some conversations with him. He's been, he's been, he's a prior of 311. He got out, retired, or every retired, but he got out and he's been writing a book that just recently came out. I couldn't tell you the name right off the top of my head, but he was telling me the other day that he's been speaking with guys on both sides of the fence, like he's been talking to dudes that

are in the Russian military and talking to dudes that are in the, you know, Ukrainian military, whether they're, you know, natives to Ukraine or they're foreign volunteers. And, you know, he's like, first off for the Russian, the Russian guys, he said that a lot of these dudes are genuinely convinced that they are doing something good because they've been completely indoctrinated by this, this propaganda that's convinced them into thinking that Ukraine is flooded with Nazis. And that that's what they're, they're, they're getting rid of Nazis, you know, like I genuinely believe that. And he was telling me, he's like, dude, there's some of these guys I've had conversations with, like, I would have a beer with them. They're normal dudes, like, and that's, that's the thing

I think that's important to remember is the, you know, these are all human beings and some of these people are making poor decisions. And some of these guys are just following orders and doing what they're told, but a lot of times. I've heard that line before. Yeah, following orders. Just following orders and like some, sometimes just following orders causes genocide, you know, and like that's, that's the, that's the tough part, man. You have to be able to use your own personal sovereignty and make decisions sometimes to avoid, you know, to, to, I think what is it called is just being a moral and ethical leader, you know? I don't know if I've, I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast before, if I've told you, but I know, I know a few Russians,

like they're, they live in the US now. They haven't been to Russia in a while, but it's really fun to ask them about the war because their usual opinion is, guess they shouldn't be Ukrainian. You're like, that is such an insane stance on offensive war. And then like, I know a guy, I know a guy, I met him at a bar and he had a, he was wearing an Adidas track, track, like track suit. And he had a mother Russia stitched into his shoulders. And I was like, Hey, man, are you Ukrainian? And he was like, do not ever disrespect me like that. You know, getting to know this guy, he was a Russian officer for like two or three years and he was a conscript, but he was an officer and he got orders to Crimea. And this is late last year. And he was like, how about no. And so he

immediately went to the nearest airport, flew right to the US and he was like, I'd like to defect, please. But talking to this guy, you're like, you're like, he probably knew what was up. I mean, 150,000 Russians massing on the border of Ukraine and he just up and leaves. And so I remember asking him when the war started, I was like, Hey, man, you know, how long do you think this is going to go? And he went forever. It's like, what do you mean he's going, we would rather lose forever than admit defeat. And I was like, that is insane. That is such a difficult way of thinking, like, you know, because you and I were Americans, we were in the American military and there is tactical retreats and withdrawals and these kinds of things. And you got to recess and

readdress. But the Eastern thought when it comes to military tactics is just keep going. And that's just, it's just insane. And today, you know, I know this guy and I've asked him and he was like, Oh, yeah, the war is going to keep going. And yeah, I guess they shouldn't be Ukrainian. So yeah, yeah, it's just different. Yeah, that's, I could see that. I mean, it's it's tough because a lot of it is like ego driven stuff, you know, not necessarily is this tactically sound, you know, and then that's a that's a problem. But you see a lot of that over in those those areas, especially when concerning military military work or military operations, because people get their ego involved. And then like,

you know, I don't want to be known as the guy who retreated, or I don't want to be known as the guy who didn't continue to go, you know, because it's, it's just designed differently. And like, the, the baseline at how they groom their, you know, enlisted in officers to become down the road is just much different than us, where like Americans are, are literally from the very start groomed to be ethical and moral leaders, like, because there's such a huge burden of responsibility on us to, to make sure that we're representing the nation in a way that's benevolent to the rest of the world. Because we've done so many, I mean, people do stupid stuff in war. And, you know, if an American does something stupid in war, he gets broadcast all over Al Jazeera and

every other foreign news station, and like everybody's like, Oh, look at this, another American doing something disgusting, they're all pigs, they're all, you know, just foul human beings, they're, you know, they're, they're less than, less than dirt or whatever, you know, but that's why they, they make such an emphasis on, on trying to groom people to be ethical and moral leaders and ethical and moral human beings. Because of the impact we have socioeconomically throughout the entire world. But exactly. It's a lot of what I was. Yeah, exactly. I know when I was in the military that I was a Marine and everyone always went, the Marine Corps does two things, makes soldiers or makes warfighters and then gives back good citizens, like that is, that is the whole

goal. If you don't want to do 20 years, you want to do four, great, go back and be a good dude and do good dude things. It's, you know, that's, that's kind of ours. But it's funny if you look at like, do you follow Mike reports on Instagram? Mike reports? No, I don't believe. So he is a, he was a soldier within the American army. And it's for the last several years has been embedded with the Georgian army. Yeah, he's like, he's a journalist. He follows them and whatnot. And he goes, yeah, man, they go out and fight separatists in those Russian breakaway regions in slam eight or nine shots of whiskey before they go out to fight. And then you go, yeah, I think there's a reason they lost the war in 2008. And so you go, okay, so if an American soldier

went out and got shithouse, and then decided to go fight somebody, that would be everywhere. And that would have the status of the US military or like, even a British room Marine command of going like, is this the country's finest, they're going to go out and get completely hammered and go fight. But if you look at something like Eastern Europe, where you go, Oh, these soldiers get drunk before they go fight. That's pretty smart. I wouldn't want to fight on, you know, being sober, you know, you got to make very irrational decisions before you go fight the enemy. And of course, you know, the Russians, they're not real people. And then it's just, it's a different way of looking at, like you just said, like the Americans are held to be

good pious people. And then Eastern Europe or the rest of the world essentially is given a hall pass. Yeah, they just do, they just do things. Businesses ran differently out there, man. Like they just, they're more focused on, can this person do what they're told? And can they sustain more than like leadership development, which I think is something that we've done a pretty good job of emphasizing within the ranks. That's why we have things like sergeants course and corporals course and, you know, advanced course and like, you know, career course and all these other things that are like set up to, you know, help elevate people's ability to lead, you know, at least in the Marine Corps. I can't really speak for the Army. I know the Army has like some like courses that are similar.

I would assume that they have forces maybe do too. I believe they do have similar, like rank based career courses. Like, I mean, the Marine Corps has corporals course and sergeants course and Lance Corporal Seminar and all these cool things. And I'm pretty sure that the Army does because I think I remember there was a sailor in my corporals course. No kidding. Oh, yeah, we, he was like, yeah, we have our own. I mean, it still counts. I'm an E four and I'm trying to get E five and I didn't have PME done. So I just happened to have a buddy in the Marine Corps said, yeah, come on over and it wasn't a corpsman or anything. It was just some regular sailor. So no kidding. Yeah, that's a different time. But it's pretty cool. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a pretty fun time.

Everyone's, you know, trying to pick this kid's brain and just go like, what's it like being in the Navy? And he was like, it sucks. The Marines are like, wow, it sucks too. That's so funny. Mm hmm. But going back to what you said about indoctrination, it's, I'm sure a lot of people think of Russia or Eastern Europe, or they see the Soviet flag and they go, they all look like Dolph Lundgren. And the entire country has run like a gym PE class, where it's everyone's running circles and pull ups and push ups. And it's very, very physically based. And then you meet Russians, you're like, what the hell? You're like, this is nothing like I thought it was. So it's, it's like, again, I, you know, I know that Russian

defector and I know other Russians and they're raised up to go like, yeah, the 90s, that was terrible. Soviet Union, that was a good time. Today, I think we're the best we've been ever, actually. And then it's, you know, when the war starts, and I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but if everyone in the world goes like, Oh, why would Russia, why would their youth be happy to invade Ukraine? And so you have to put yourself in a 20 year old Russian soldiers shoes where you go, say America lost in 1991, and California and Texas ran away and we got a new flag and we got all the new new language knew everything. And then the president goes, we're taking Texas back, that's ours. And then you see the old American flag waving and like, if I was a

20 year old soldier and Russia, I'd be gung-ho as fuck. So yeah, it's just that idea of like, I think everyone in the Russian or the former Soviet sphere of influence really believed that the Soviet Union was, it was a bad system, but it was better than what it is today. So you know, again, you see this Soviet flag waving over Kyrgyzstan, you're going, I think that's pretty sweet. Right. Yeah, I mean, I could see that. I mean, all of the, all the Russians I know, and Ukrainians, they're, we're all very similar in just like, especially like they're guys in their military. I mean, they're, they're conscripts, a lot of them. So it's a little different. But at the end of the day, like we're all still human beings. We like to eat, sleep,

drink, party, have a good time, talk shit, you know, shoot guns, blow stuff up. Like we're all, we're all very similar and they're passionate about their country the same way that we're passionate about ours. And you know, they're, they have a strong sense of nationalism, just the same way that a lot of service members here do as well. You know, I mean, not every one of them, but you know, there's, I would say a large, I would say well over two thirds of the people that join have a sense of strong, like a strong sense of nationalism and respect for the country and like the desire to see good things come to the people of the country. And you know, so it's, it's, it's a tough situation, especially when they do things

like what they did in Isiom, you know, and then those, those come out and then everyone goes, hold on, you know, in Russia, that's being heavily suppressed. No one's talking about that. Nobody probably even knows about it unless they're like getting it from outside sources. Which, which makes me think of something else where Tesseron News talked about how that motorized rifle battalion, that was just read that today. Yeah, who committed the atrocities in Bukka were given guard status and then sent into a meat grinder to have every single member of that unit get eliminated. So no one could talk about war crimes. You're like, yeah, you guys are heroes. You did good thing. Hey, go walk in front of this machine gun.

That's real quick. And then they did it because like, that's just what they do. And then it just eliminated the fact that anyone can go, oh, no one committed war crimes. Those, those soldiers died like heroes. They did their job. But in reality, you're going, no, you're clearing up the evidence. You're, you know, that 2000 guys did atrocities and you're trying to get rid of them. You know, I've heard that over 50,000 Russian military members have been killed since the start of this thing. 50,000. That's nice. Like, and that's like confirmed by their own country, apparently. Yeah. So that's like, that's like if you took the entire base of Camp Lejeune and just killed everyone. Like, that's insane. So earlier in the war,

they used to, everyone that was trying to make the, the, the, the similarities between like, oh, this is the, the body count of Ukraine, Ukraine lost, I don't know, 1500 guys, Russia's lost 2000. That's about as many as the Americans in Iraq. And you go, these are completely different wars. This is not a conventional war or Iraq was not a conventional war. There was asymmetric, that was fighting insurgencies. You could say anything you want about Afghanistan and tanks and whatever, but that was not force on force. That was counterinsurgency operations, one of two's, you know, daily max. This is a tank versus tank war that no one in the world has seen since, essentially, you know, career world or two. And so 50,000 today after six plus months is insane.

And if the Russians, so, I mean, you can look at that going, yeah, Russia just lost 50,000 young men, but they just gained several million Ukrainian women. That's a, I guess that's a plus. I mean, I don't know how the Ukrainians or how the Russians operate. It's, you can think like, yeah, they probably see that as a win, you know, the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few. And we all know that they rounded up the areas, their frontline soldiers were the guys who might have been an issue from like the Caucasus or Eastern Russia, where if they lost the war in Ukraine, they would probably try to revolt. So they killed off that male population really quick. And then they sent in their frontline guys. So it's,

yeah, it's, it's, yeah, 50,000 is just so insane to think about. Yeah. I mean, it's just an, it's hard to, it's hard to fathom thinking about that many people, like, and just them being gone forever, you know, like, but what you were talking about with that Georgian, for example, that reminded me of a story. So I was living in Asheville, North Carolina for a little bit before I joined the military. And I was living with a guy who used to be a ranger. And he served in like the earlier days of Iraq, like, like back when John McCain was visiting and stuff like that and doing like walks down the street and Baghdad and like weird stuff. Yeah. And he told me a story about how they were fighting with

some Georgians that happened to be there helping at one point. They were in Kurdistan, right? And they were, they were in Kurdistan because the Kurds got, they got totally ransacked by Saddam. I mean, they got, they got gassed by nerve gas and all kinds of stuff by Saddam. So like they were up there kind of helping them out and things like that. And they were, you know, working with some Georgians. And then Georgia got invaded. I can't remember the exact year that happened, but 2008. Yeah. Okay. So that, that sounds about right. And this, these, these guys they were working with, these Georgians, they all left to go back to Georgia to help fight off the Russians. And they eventually returned after they went back

for a short period of time. And my buddy was telling me that all the guys that were from Georgia that had returned after fighting the Russians were like completely different people because of how, you know, brutal, like how absolutely brutal they explained these guys. They, like the way that they, they explained them, you know, it's kind of like you think about, so you know that the book Dune, right? So you know how that you've got like the two, you know, the two different families, right? Like the Barron's family. And then you've got like the other family or whatever. It's like having like the straight savage people of the Barron's side of things, you know, fighting, fighting, you know, fighting

against those types of people. At least that's how it seems, the way you described it. So, but what's it's, have you ever read the book Blood Meridian? No, I don't believe so. So it's a, it's a Western novel about, you know, some, some kid who just runs away from home and it's set after the Mexican American war, but before the civil war and he's homeless, essentially running around Texas, just drinking and getting in fights. And so some American nationalist imperialist is like, Hey man, come join my army, we're going to invade Mexico. And he was like, isn't the war over? And he was like, it's not over until it's ours. And they were like, all right, cool. So he joins. And so

essentially this, this American with his essentially a mercenary group invades Mexico with no supplies, no logistics, nothing, it just gets slaughtered by Mexican bandits and Comanche warriors and whatnot. And this kid's like, what the hell did I just get myself into? And this is really early in the book, but it's almost very reminiscent to Russia throwing essentially their military age youth into Ukraine going like, these guys believe in what they're doing. They're getting food, they're getting water, they're getting shelter. All they need to do is go kill some Ukrainians, because they're ours anyways. And by the way, they're, we were all Soviets once, that's really cool. So I mean, it's not over till it's over. And then they all just got slaughtered. And so

going back to 50,000, it's, I mean, it's indoctrination is a marvelous thing. Yeah, it's pretty powerful, man. You know, like, I mean, I would, I would, I would go as far to say that pretty much every civilized civilized nation on earth uses it in some way, shape or form. You know, because they know how powerful that stuff is. So the Americans used to do it back in the fifties with a, oh, sure. Oh, yeah, all the propaganda videos about like, we are training to fight the Russians. This is your entire life is you're going to fight the Russians. And so yeah, the red men is, you know, every movie from like the every movie in the fifties and sixties, probably early sixties, it was about communism and the

Russians and you're like, your entire job is to fight this because your way of life is better than theirs. And so you see all these videos of young American men in high school just doing obscene amount of workouts and push-ups and sprints. And then they, they're gung-ho to join the military. And no one really talked about Korea, but they didn't have any idea what was coming in Vietnam. So like that 50 to 65 timeframe was such like a gung-ho experience of indoctrination. And then you can still see it today where it's like, older American generation are pretty hard right considering today. And then the younger generations more like center left, I think is a good way to put it. But it's the older generation

are still pretty gung-ho about like, oh yeah, I hate the Russians. Yeah. Yeah, there's a, there's something to be said about that. I mean, and it's interesting how things have changed, the dynamics changed as we've progressed through the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, you know. For some reason it's easy for people to just lump everyone into one category rather than like think for themselves sometimes because it's just, it takes a lot of energy to try to like get a good solid understanding of a situation. So it's just easier to be like, this group of people is bad and this group of people is good and this group of people are indifferent, right? Because it's just easier and people are lazy inherently, myself included.

You know, I have to like actively work against being lazy to kind of sift through stuff and come up with like nuanced answers to things, which typically most things in life are nuanced. Like there's not really any clear cut. Like this is, it's not one plus one is two. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's not that easy most of the time. So I think back in the day, especially during the Cold War, it was East versus West. That was a pretty clean cut. And then let's say post Cold War, even post 9-11, we have the internet now, so everyone talks. And so it's like everyone always says, wow, the world is more divided now than it has ever been. You're like, at least they talk to each other because no one ever considered what the East Germans were doing when everyone was in

Western, when you're ready to invade them in a moment's notice. It's yeah, true. Let me ask you to shift gears real quick. Do you know much about Armenia and Azerbaijan? Yeah, I'm not an expert or anything, but I think I have a solid understanding of what's going on. Are they backed? Are both of those countries backed by the Russians? So Armenia is backed by the Russians. And Azerbaijan is Shia Islam, which is the same sect of Islam as Iran. But they are also backed by the Turks who hate Armenia. And so Armenia is essentially flanked on three sides and their saving grace is Russian peacekeepers who had to leave to go to Ukraine. So now Armenia is kind of stuck. And in the 90s, after the Soviet Union broke up, they, it goes back thousands of years,

but they have this territorial claim on some valley that Azerbaijan owned. And so in the 90s, they took it. And then recently, I guess Armenia got soft, maybe, and Azerbaijan invaded. But then because Iran and Turkey don't like each other, they both sent their forces to the Azerbaijani border. And so Iran was ready to invade Azerbaijan, but it kind of fell through. And then essentially Armenia is just stuck in between a rock and a hard place because if you want to go super philosophical, it's they're the Poland of the Middle East. They're this punching bag that everyone's just had a grievance against for no reason outside of. Yeah, Armenia is the first Christian nation. Yeah, that's cool. Well, every country that surrounds them is Muslim.

And so you can just go right down to that one that's black and white, that's 5050. And then you can go, okay, well, Armenia also was pretty gun hoe about the Soviet Union, but Azerbaijan was not. And so Azerbaijan sent soldiers into Chechnya back in the 90s and early 2000s to help fight against the Russians, but they lost. So then Russia went, yeah, I think Armenia is going to be on my side because they didn't send guys to kill my guys. So it's, but then we have today where Armenia is just getting curb stomped and Azerbaijan is committing a heinous amount of war crimes that no one apparently seems to care about. Yeah, I made a post about it the other day, or actually today, I got messaged by somebody, I think that's from there who happens to follow me.

And they're like, Hey, have you seen anything about this? And it was, it was the, the female Armenian soldier who was, oh yeah, disgusting. She got, she got carnally violated. They wrote on her, they removed, they like did all kinds of just absolutely barbaric stuff like medieval level barbarism, like barbarism type things to her. And apparently there were videos of it that got surfaced. It was Azerbaijan soldiers that committed these crimes. She had like three kids. I think she was from Haktemberian city, which is like the Armavir region in Armenia. I'm not really sure. I'm not familiar with where that is, but her kids are now getting taken, book care of by her parents and her brother. But so, I mean, it's just insane, man, like

that kind of stuff. If you saw that happen to like an American soldier, like a female American soldier or, you know, something like that, it would be plastered all over the news and everybody would be talking about it, you know, like, it's almost like what Azerbaijan does, their military does is in reality, what the Russians accused the Ukrainians of doing. It's like, Ukraine was not doing any of this. Azerbaijan is doing all of this. I think it's just because Armenia is so isolated and the nearest quasi ally is Georgia, who lost the war in 08 and is pretty much culturally stagnated since military economically, everything like that country went through a huge overhaul following that war. And yeah, they've had a rough time recovering from that.

Yeah, it's I don't know, like something no one really brings up is the fact that the president of Georgia from 2000, I want to say three or four through 2009, who was gum hoe about I keep saying going hoe, but I think it's my buzzword for today, who fought the war against the Russians lost. Yeah, it was voted out of office, went to Ukraine because he's half Ukrainian and became the governor of Odessa and kept telling Ukraine that you're next, you guys are next, they're coming for you. I promise you when Ukraine said, I will consider this. And so years later, today they get invaded and the governor's going, what did I tell you? And they went shut up.

Yeah, he saw the writing wall. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's it's just like, and everyone makes this association, but like Hitler looks at you know, parts of Poland or neighboring countries of Germany going, ethnic Germans live there, they used to be German, I think they should be with me. And then everyone goes, your logic is sound. And so something like Putin goes, we all used to be Soviets, I think we should be Soviets. And so everyone goes, I don't think that checks out. It's a tribal mentality, man. You know, that's like, we're seeing things like that happen here in this country. We're seeing things like that happen in China. Seeing things like that is a

mess right now at that places. Oh, it's right. Yeah, that tribal mentality is really butting them in the ass. A lot of a lot of horrible things happen. I think in civilized society due to tribalism, whether it be, you know, everybody agreeing that, you know, in 1938, everybody agreed that the Jewish people were a threat to Germany, you know, in Germany, like all the Germans like united and were like, Oh, yeah, maybe he's right. And they all banded together. And like, maybe there were some outliers here and there, but, you know, a large majority of people banded together that with that tribal mentality and started believing that same thing happened in probably Russia now where they're like, you know, maybe there's some dissenters here and

there, but a large majority of them have been convinced that the whole country's Ukraine is filled with Nazis and they have to go cleanse it and save them from themselves, you know, things like that. And you get enough people like you get enough people thinking, you know, thinking one way towards a certain objective or goal, even if it's destructive. And oftentimes it ends up causing a lot more harm than good, you know, well, going back to what you're talking about, like tribalism in Russia is I don't know if you saw the video, but there was this Russian veteran, he has no legs, he's trying to get on a bus and the bus drivers like you're not getting on here. And the kids going, I went to Ukraine, I fought Nazis,

they eat children, why aren't you taking care of me? I fought for this country. I'm doing, I did good things. My friends are doing good things and the bus drivers going, I didn't tell you to lose your legs. I didn't send you to Ukraine. You're not getting on the bus and all of the passengers in the buses are laughing at this, the soldier and he's very passionate that what he did was, was good. And then you kind of shift focus to Ukraine where the soldiers doing the hardest fighting are the 30, they're above the age of 30, because they lived in the Soviet Union. They're going, we're not going back to this, but the younger generation is going, I don't really care either way. I'd rather pay my way out of going to fight because

I don't really care. I mean, America or Ukraine got invaded eight years ago. And I think Ukraine really just stopped caring immediately. They're going, Oh, those are breakaway states. It's, they want to be Russian, let them be Russian. And then they look at Ukraine or cry me and go, the biggest issue with that is they all speak Russian, but we had a summer home down there. And I kind of need that bash. So it's just two different ways of thinking. And it's, I think an underreported topic because the average age of the Ukrainian soldiers, probably 35 or 40, and it's not the youth fighting the war. It's the former Soviet fighting the war. That's interesting. So it must be, if that's the case, then it's because they know,

they know what the consequences are. If they didn't, you know, Oh, of course. And then they see a book out or a theme and they go, see, I told you, they're going, I knew this was going to happen. So it makes them want to fight harder. And then yeah, it's Oh, for sure, man. It's speaking about China. We have this continent called Africa, who is almost entirely reliant on international imports for food. And Oh, yeah. Yeah, the Horn of Africa in Northern Africa get almost all of their grain from Ukraine and Russia, who have exported next to zero since February. And so it's those regions are about to implode too. No one's really talking about it, but

countries like Egypt and Sudan and Somalia and Ethiopia are on the brink of revolution, because they only have two weeks where the food's stored up. And they're like winter is coming. Oh, yeah, they're like winter is coming. And the country who's gives us food is fighting a war. And so weeks ago, I would think to myself, like, it's not really about if Ukraine will win, but how many Africans need to face starvation for Ukraine to lose. But I think after this counter offensive, Ukraine's not going to let up. So that's just going to create second, third border effects in Africa, where Americans have a lot of bases where they have traditional allies. Yeah, where where someone like China might go, Hey, man, I have some rice. Would you like to

give me your airport? So yeah, you know, funny, funny thing is about what's going on. So you've seen how successful Ukraine's been recently with their their major offensive. So from what I understand, and from what I've been told by other people who know more about the subject, the Ukrainians were good at defense, they're good at the defense, like they're very good at it. They weren't so good at the offense. But since then, they've received a lot of coaching from outside sources, if you catch my drift. I'm not saying that they they walk and talk like Rangers or reconnaissance Marines, but yeah, yeah, but the thing is, is like, you know, there's no NATO soldiers participating in Ukraine, right? There's nobody there from NATO fighting.

However, I have a strong feeling that a lot of their tactics, and a lot of their strategic planning for operations are being, I guess, reinforced from people from outside, who have a stronger working knowledge of how to implement these types of operations, and just kind of like getting some coaching. Oh, yeah, I mean, early in the war, Ukraine was getting ran through. And I went, yeah, Russia's definitely got this, they they have the upper hand. But then I don't know where in early April, mid April, Ukraine started making mild counter offensives. And I'm going, what operational tools are they using? Do they have a cop? Are they using Wintek? That's like, it's like, who is giving them Palantir? Because somebody's giving them

information and telling them how they need to operate, like somebody is. And it's like, yeah, and there's multiple startup groups, which with former American and British and French and whatever military war veterans in Ukraine going, the Ukrainian soldier is bad, like they're terrible. And then months later, they're like, this is the greatest soldier of all time. It's, I don't know, I don't know if you've ever talked with Warren Stoddard, who fought with the YPG, got wounded in Syria, went over to Ukraine to train Ukrainian soldiers to fight Russians. And he said, at one point, right before he left, a Ukrainian soldier misidentified him and shot at him. From 50 yards away and missed. And he went, I'm not upset that you shot at me. I'm upset that

you missed because that was a very easy target. You missed. And he went, it's like, yeah, the Ukrainians don't even believe in zeroing your weapons or, you know, donating your weapons or, you know, fundamentals in the American military is clean your weapon. If you're born, if there's nothing going on, clean your weapon, get to know it, like the Ukrainians don't do that. But then out of nowhere, we have this really sick counter-offensive going on. And like you said, it's someone's probably driving this because it's definitely not the Ukrainian command. Yeah, weapon gear body is what they always say. Clean your weapon, fix your gear, take your body, take your body afterwards. Yeah, there's definitely, there's definitely people

kind of steering the boat form. You know, I'm not sure exactly who, but I can see it. Maybe, I don't know. It's not like there's a huge alliance right next door. Yeah. I mean, who knows? I know that there's like a lot of NATO government officials and a lot of NATO people are in touch with the Ukrainian government. So they're getting help from somebody on learning like what plays work and what plays don't work, almost like it's a Superbowl, you know? So they need it. They need the help, man. Like they're, like nobody's supplying troops out there. Nobody's putting their own troops out there because they know that would, that would just cause huge problems. So they're like, well,

we got to support you in other ways. So this, maybe this is one of those ways they're supporting. Yeah, I was talking about this last week with our wars today. And I went, man, Americans are pretty motivational about Ukraine because they're fighting the war that we always thought we would. So it's, it's like, you know, ever since I was a kid or you were a kid, it's the Russians are the bad guys. When you're real little, it's the Germans. And then you're like, Oh, World War II is over. Oh, it's the Russians. They're the bad guys. So it's finally Russia's fighting a war and they're, they're losing and they may take territory and they might keep Crimea, but it's like they're losing people. And especially here in America,

it's like good like fight the war. I wanted to fight when I was a kid because when you were a little kid, you play cops and robbers and then you played, you know, Americans versus Russians and then everyone pretend everyone's favorite movie was Rocky for. So yeah, yeah, you played cowboys and Indians or whatever. You know, like, oh yeah, I think little boys do. Yeah, you get older and you start getting new interests. And, you know, when you're really little, you're like, you know, the bad guys, the Japanese and the Germans, you go, excuse me? Oh, that's all. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I guess not for the past 70 years, bro. Yeah. I mean, I definitely remember how to have their own military.

That is amazing because I lived in Japan for a little bit and it was, I used to work with the Japanese military a lot. They're self-defense force, I guess. But yeah, there were so many young Japanese men motivated about going with round three with China. They're going, no, they are the problem. We need to take care of this. I love, I love that. I think that's great. And it was so funny, like they would play basketball and flip flops and dunk on American Marines who were like six, three and, you know, 225 Lee Mass. There was like these little Japanese dudes who were like, by the way, China's the problem. It was amazing. They're one of our closest allies now out there, man. Like we're, we're fucking tight us too. I think that's great.

Like we've built, we've built serious bonds with them, you know, it's really interesting to look at just, you know, let's forget Italy, but Germany and Japan, like Japan, we said, you can't have military. We occupied it. Here we are today. And they are very motivated about like, no, we are number one in this region. But then you have someone like Germany, who's entirely reliant on the Russians for gas. They are almost ashamed to do anything military because every time they do a parade or go to the range or say anything with a list, like everyone goes, remember the Nazis? Remember those guys? And so it's like the Germans were masculine where the Japanese doubled down, it seems like. And so the Japanese and German economies got really big

post World War II. They got really into automobiles. And it's, so here we are 70, 75, 80 years later, and Japan is phenomenal. And Japan, Germany is consistently called out as being a Russian shill. And they're going, what are you going to do about it? You're like, all right, that's, that's a horrific stance to take. Yeah, you know, it's funny is when I was in Hawaii for a little bit of time, I was kind of off and on talking to this German girl that would visit there every so often. And she told me that nobody flies German flags outside of their buildings or outside of their homes there. It's like not a thing there. And I don't, I don't know why I love waving American flag, queen dies, everyone starts waving the British flag, but it's like, I think the idea

of cultural thing over there, going back to nationalism, and it's in Germany is if you're a nationalist, you're immediately branded as a Nazi sympathizer. And I it's just like that is ingrained in their, their zeitgeist, where they just won't do anything. And that's how much of a negative impact that time period in that that individual had on their entire society. That's that's how crazy that shit is. You know, you could look at the Russians to go like, remember, you know, Stalin, they go, he was a piece of shit. Yeah. All right, we're on the same page. Oh, by the way, you just invaded Ukraine hilarious. And you could look at the Chinese who hail Chairman Mao is the greatest, you know, God's gift to the earth who killed 50 million plus

people in the Great Leap Forward. But no one really talks about that because no one can talk about it. And then in the US, you go, Oh, Andrew Jackson, hilarious, racist, absolutely. Is he on the $20 bill? Yes. Exactly. It's, it's just a different way of thinking. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's it's much different, for sure. But I think that a lot of the older people in China are probably tracking on what like kind of a human being Mao was, you know, and they just got to keep their mouths shut because they know that the government's watching them with drones, you know, you watch La Wa 86 on YouTube. No, I don't believe so. What's that? So La Wa 86, he's an American, he's from Connecticut, I believe, who moved to camp or not Canada, China. And the mid 2000s lived

there for 10 years. And then had a wife, he was running like a motorcycle shop or something. His whole thing was video blogging. He would ride his motorcycle across the country, film it, do what he does. And then in 2012 or 13, I believe he was like, Yeah, I don't know where this really inviting society became very xenophobic and racist. And unless you were not, if you were not Han Chinese, you were not allowed in like certain buildings. And because he was a YouTube guy, everyone was his neighbors had to report him to the secret police going, he made another video. So he escaped China, essentially, he's back to the US. Yeah, he's people were coming, the secret police were coming after him going, is there a reason you're talking about China period?

He's going, I live here. And they went, no, no, no, no, no. Why are you talking about China at all? Like, yeah, it must be in a positive light. It should not be remotely negative. Like China is China is it is it's the greatest. And he went, this is stupid. So we had to fly to Hong Kong and then from Hong Kong to Taiwan and got back to the US. And so now, yeah, so, you know, we got his family out, you know, good things. And then so now he just makes YouTube videos of this is what it's like to live in a Chinese suburb. He's like, it's not uncommon to see a 10 out of 10 supermodel walking down the street, and then she'll shit on the side of the road and keep going. And everyone pretends it's normal because it is. So it's he's like this society is he's like, this society is

collapsing. And no one really addresses it because if you mentioned, you know, Tiananmen Square or anything, you're immediately thrown into the gulag. It's yeah, he's like, yeah, I mean, those cell phones that you guys like iPhones, they're not made by workers, they're made by slaves and prisoners. He's like, these are made by sweatshop kids who decided to look up Tiananmen Square because they saw Simpson's episode, you know, so. Yeah, see, the crazy thing is, is that the situation over there is very reminiscent of the same situation that happened in Germany with the brown shirts. Like the way that the way they lock it down is they get the entire society so scared of speaking out against their government that everybody is willing to wrap their neighbor out to not get in

trouble themselves because they're all scared. They're all scared for their life, you know, and that's where they're at right now, you know, something like the brown shirts were loyal to the party and not Hitler. So that's why I created the SS and be like, take care of the brown shirts. Yeah. And so when I hear the word brown shirt, I'm like, okay, somebody's going to come, you know, take you out of your house because you've been speaking negatively about the government or whatever, you know, and followed one too many bad pages on Instagram. Like you got. Yeah, yeah. You said one of my favorite podcasts is Joe Rogan. You got to go. But yeah, and so it's

looking at someone like the Italians who for some reason got a hall pass after World War Two is they had the black shirts and all of their little government buildings had CCCCC. It was like, yes, like we are it. Yes, there is no alternative. We are, we are essentially. And looking back at World War Two, it's or any war with Italy in general is those guys for so much conflicted about what they were doing. It's like looking back to like the Germans knew what they were doing. The Japanese knew what they were doing. The Italians were like, we're going to take Ethiopia. Oh, we almost lost. All right. So we should really readdress what's going on. Oh, there's a war in France. Hilarious. So it's, I don't know. I don't know where I'm going

with this one, but the Italians are there's something else. There's very, there's a lot of similarities, you know, it goes back to tribalism again, you know, because people, people get so afraid to, and well, and they get othered, they become the other, right. And then when people look at them, they look at them like they're less than human, even, even though it's just because they have a differing opinion, and you can't do that, man, you know, you gotta, you gotta remember. And then I have to remind myself too, to stay unbiased or as objective as possible, because that's just how I like to, I like to be able to objectively look at things and discuss them without, without branding an entire people or an entire, you know, group or whatever,

in a certain way, because like, like I said, man, life is nuanced. And, and that's what makes it so interesting is because nothing is cut and dry. And if somebody says that everything's cut and dry, then they're probably feeding you some bullshit, you know, absolutely, absolutely. So I got a question for you, man. So everyone always goes, oh, the world today seems a lot like 1930s, geopolitical timeframe, where it's, there was the war in Syria, which we get attributed to like the war in Spain, there was a civil war, and it was all these world powers testing out their new toys in Syria. And there's geopolitical instability, and there's all these different powers working in the same direction, but they

don't like each other. And I don't think it's a World War Two move. I think it might be an eve of World War One, where not a single world leader is a veteran, there was no major war before anybody, like everyone was just kind of moving up, rapid industrialization, there's all the technology moving faster than no one could actually comprehend. There's multiple wars going on around the world. So like Russia invades Ukraine could be attributed to Japan invading Russia, essentially, and Russia losing a war against the Japanese in 1907. And it's, but then we have world leaders today who are not veterans, but they're very okay with sending people to go fight wars that they're signing off on. And it's not, because World War

Two, everyone was a veteran, like everyone fought in World War Two or World War One. But World War One, like, what did America have the Spanish American War 30 years ago? And they blacklisted Teddy Roosevelt, essentially. And then yeah, it's, it's like, I think the closest thing they had to actual conflict was the Franco-Prussian war. And that lasted, I think as long as the Gulf War, it was really quick. So yeah, I think it's, I think the world's more shadowing World War One, which means the next war is going to be even worse. But yeah, I don't know. I like taking that one. I'd like to stay, I'd like to have a positive outlook on life. Because, honestly, hey man, life is short, bro. Like sometimes, like, especially with social media and everything,

you can, I mean, you see this, the large majority of things that you're going to see online or in social media are going to be negative in nature. And that's just because that's the stuff that gets the most clicks. And that's the stuff that gets emphasized. And that's the stuff that starts to trend the fastest and, and all that. But, you know, I like to, I like to have faith that, that us as human beings will find a way. And, and I think that we're going to stumble. We're going to make mistakes. People are going to do stupid shit, as we've always done. You know, people are always doing something stupid. But I think that ultimately, we'll come out the other side stronger and hopefully, with some solid lessons that we learn, that hopefully we retain. My biggest,

my biggest concern, more than anything, is, is that the youth of this country grow up understanding the significance of this country. And like how important it is that we, you know, try to do everything we can to maintain what we have. Because so many people, I mean, you still look even today, like, there are more people that emigrate to this country from other nations than probably any arguably any other country on earth because of the opportunities that are afforded to them when they come here. You know, and, you know, I think, I think, you know, as long as we can retain that knowledge of how important it is that we keep this place alive, I think we'll be all right. There's another question for you. So we're talking

indoctrination from every country and tribalism. Is it beneficial for the American public to have a mild amount of indoctrination for the youth, especially I'd say the education system, the school system, of this is how America is. I'm not saying manifest destiny, but I'm saying like this is how this is why we live here. This is why this country is so perfect. I think that it's important to teach people that they can take pride in where they're from, especially the youth of this nation, like take pride. Even if they're from another country, if they moved here and they got citizenship or they were like the children of immigrants who moved here, you know, I think taking pride in the fact that we're here and we're fortunate to be here in the greatest country in

the history of the universe. So I remember when I was a kid, you know, saying the Pledge of Allegiance every morning, I think there was maybe they played some other songs over the the loudspeaker at the schools. I can't remember if they played the national anthem or what they would do. But just like every morning starting my day, like knowing that I need to have gratitude for for being so blessed as to have been born in a place that may not be the freest we can have it as human beings, but it's definitely one of the most free nations on planet earth. You know, and is there room to grow? Sure, there's always room for improvement. You know, but we've got it really damn good here. And, you know, we've got a good thing going,

and we should we should be allowed to be prideful and and grateful for the gifts that have been given to us as a result of being here and being American, you know, and I think it's good for kids to realize how lucky they are and how fortunate they are to be here. Because you mean you see like, you know, thousands and millions of people surging across our borders to get here. Do you think they're coming here because everything was so good where they were from? Like, no, they're coming here because they know what this country has to offer, you know, and a lot of them are joining the military, even if they get here illegally in the beginning, like they might figure a way out to to do it properly and you get your

green card and you can go enlist and get your citizenship. Like a lot of people do that. And that's an honorable way to do it. I mean, you serve the country that you wanted to become a citizen of because you believe in the American experiment, you know. I think I think there's some benefit to that as long as it's not like, you know, teaching and preaching xenophobia, like I don't think that should be it. Like we're a melting pot. We're supposed to be a melting pot. We should be accepting of people of every race, creed, nationality, culture. I don't care about that stuff. If they want to leave, if they want to move here and live here as Americans, we're all Americans together and we're in it together, you know.

Absolutely. I definitely agree with what you just said because like melting pot, I live in the DC area and it is the epitome of the perfect like multiculturalism, everything thrown in one basket, like you want an Indian restaurant next to a Mexican restaurant next to a Tex-Mex place? Cool. Got it. Like it's, there's no issue. It's, and especially going back to the military standpoint, and this might actually go back to what we were talking earlier about like culturalism, but I don't know of many countries where you could illegally get into the country, say off the border, go right to a recruiting office and go, I would like to be in the Air Force. And they're like, cool. Oh, by the way, you're in America now. It's, I don't know of too many because I know in

Europe they don't like that and Europe really puts itself in a high horse of, you know, we are the epitome of civilization. Immigrants? Yeah. No, thank you. Yeah, it's really funny. I don't know. It's, yeah, America is definitely a perfect experiment that for some reason keeps going. So it's, yeah, I mean, we got a fair share of issues, but and like I said, you know, I know you agree with it. We've got, we've always got room to grow, but I do think that this is ultimately the freest nation on earth and we have the most rights inherent to being a citizen here more so than probably any nation on earth. I'll tell you this, that when I lived in Japan, when I was like a young Marine, I was on duty one night. It was like a Saturday, I believe. And I got a call from the

JP and they were like, we're looking for Lance Corporal, whoever, whoever. I was like, what? Why? And they went, he left a bad review on Facebook marketplace. He left a negative review and the owners are upset and they want him to get arrested. And I went, what was the review? And he went, and I quote, this is not, this is no joke. Went to the dog park looking for a dog, got a cat instead. And that was it. Oh, no. We left a one star, clearly a joke. Yeah. One star review in JP, Japanese police for the listeners were upset that he left such a negative review and demanded that he delete it or face prison time. And so I call the first sergeant and he was like, they can go fuck themselves. He's like, I don't. This is stupid.

But I was like, it was bananas. It was the first time I've ever had any interaction like that, where a troll online is held accountable for a literal joke. Yeah. Yeah, we get a lot of room to grow. And as far as like social media and internet interactions here still, because like we're, it's like, well, I was having a conversation with my buddy about it. Like every time a new form of communication comes out for humans, like it results in catastrophic levels of death and suffering across the entire globe. So like when the printing press became a thing, there was just like, I mean, whenever you're able to disseminate mass quantity of information, like there's just so much that goes along with that. And we're still kind of like social media

and everything is still fairly young. If we look at it, it's still, it's only like 15 years old. Like, you know, they're, they're working the kinks out. And there's a lot of, a lot of issues with it still. It's a terrible way to communicate with people, long form conversation in persons, probably still better. But I think we're, we're working, we're working towards a goal and we'll get better. You know, it's just going to take time like everything else. Yeah, man, it's, I mean, social media is such a topic in itself where you have some like Marcus Zuckerberg who comes out on Joe Rogan podcast and goes, yeah, man, we really want to push the idea of living in an alternate reality where you can

put on goggles and live where if you want to go to Paris, you just put some goggles on, you go to Paris, it's cool. And Joe Rogan goes, like, doesn't that devalue the fact that you can go to Paris? And Marcus Zuckerberg goes, no, that doesn't make any sense. Also, big issue we have on our end, independent journalists. He's like, I think if I believe he's had an independent journalist and news pages are his biggest issue, because he was like, they just keep talking. And we can't stop them. So it's like, then we have some like Testron news who gets banned because or popular front or anyone almost like, oh, hilarious, he knows who these pages are, which is kind of funny, but you're absolutely right. Whereas like, we have a lot of growing to do

because it's in person talking is still the best. And that's why movie theaters sell out. And that's why if someone like Jake Henry hand from popular front goes, I'm going to be in New York tomorrow at this place, the place sells out. It's like human interaction is real. Yeah, that's for sure, man. I've been watching or I've been following popular front for a while. He's a good dude. He posts a lot of good stuff. Well, I go, I still I think I've mentioned this multiple times in the podcast, but I'll say it again that Jake's whole stance is, fuck you, I'm in the field, you're not. Yeah, I was like, I was like, cool, that's a good way to look at everything. It's

that's a pretty easy thing to say when you're in the field. It's easily the most black and white statement that anyone ever made where it's like, oh, so he went to a Corsica when that place was in civil unrest a few months ago. And I think that's where he said it. He was like, I'm in Corsica. Why is everyone talking about French politics? I'm here. I know what's going on. I'm talking to people who are writing because of XYZ. It's hilarious. Yeah. But yeah, no, it's it's true. I mean, if somebody says that that statement to you, what are you gonna say? Very well. It's like, it's like, you're talking to Jake Hanrahan, who is detained in Turkey for talking about war crimes in Syria. You're like,

I think he knows what he's talking about. But yeah, hey, man, I think I think we're about at that time. So I might cut this out. But cool. Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. It's been a real fun conversation talking about Russia, Arizona, all these cool things. And if you have anything to plug, go go right ahead. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, my Instagram is really the the main plug for me. It's just the Kagan K-A-G-A-N dot Dunlap, D-U-N-L-A-P. It's pretty much it right there, man. Too easy. Hey, man, I really appreciate you coming on. I mean, you've been on twice now. And this is the first one we've done one on one. And it's really fun. It's because you and I, you know, we're both Marines. And it's really funny just

to have the same conversation again. Yes, it's a good time. Yeah, I appreciate you having me, man. I mean, I feel like it's it's easy for me to bullshit with people, especially when it comes to stuff that like genuinely means something to me. And most of the things that we have conversations about are pretty important, you know? Oh, yeah, exactly. It's it's like, do I joke a lot? Yes. Am I really dialed into what's going on in the world? Yes. But you can't be depressing all of the time. It's no, no, nice things. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's, you know, you got to look at the world is like Jane Silent Bob or something, just make a very serious situation, very comedic. And then yeah. But all right, yeah, I'm going to cut this out. And I'll talk to you later.

Awesome. Sounds good, man. You