Kitbag Conversations - Episode 36: SOF Down Under

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

We are joined by John (IG: Johns_op) to discuss Australian commandos, Afghanistan, the world and all things in your kitbag.

I'm not gonna let you down. I got the wind in my bank and my food to the floor I ain't coming back to you no more I'm sinking your ship in your floating way I'm leaving the fuck out driving right outside You can drive me a river, drive me a river of tears You're gonna cry your life, gonna cry all night Why am I in tears to get to the light? I'm running out of rage, I'm out of control I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power

I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running out of power I'm running out of power, I'm running cry, I'm gonna cry, I'm gonna cry all night Why am I in tax to get to the land?

I'm running on rage, I'm out of control We ain't gonna find us, ain't high-flying coals You can grind me a river, grind me a river and see us We ain't gonna cry We do this every time, we talk before we start and we waste all the good stuff. But welcome, John. But it's funny. It is funny.

But now I've been, I've been Instagram stalking you guys, the commandos for a while and now like the entire Instagram feed is filled with, because we share the Instagram account. So it's like just filled with commandos. And I'm like, John looks like a good guy. So I was like, and you were in Southern Afghanistan as well with Task Force 66 and all that stuff. So I know the area that you went to. And so yeah, I was like, I'm gonna have to get them on. But yeah, tell us about yourself, tell us what you did,

what you're doing now and what you're selling on Instagram. But go ahead. Yeah, well, I'll start with, I'll go in reverse, but yeah, not really selling much on Instagram just sort of trying to connect with like-minded sort of individuals. I guess I actually went off social media there for quite a bit of a chunk of time a few months. I just had a bit of a gut full of some of like yeah the negative part of part of social media where you're just seeing the

pretenders and all the loudest, the empty can rattles the loudest type thing and then you've just got the quiet professionals and then just a whole lot of other toxic stuff that comes with it. So I got off for a bit, but then I of found that I was missing, like seeing like accounts like yours, getting updates of cool stuff, and then other just like-minded people like in the shooting community. Sort of that counterpouching world and a whole heap of other stuff. And obviously military friends, a lot of us like don't run Facebook anymore or what not. Yeah, and currently at the moment I work for a private military law enforcement training company which oddly works a lot for the US DoD, like we do a lot of training for your foreign military service program and building

partner capacity programs. So wherever they're selling gear we get out and about. So you can imagine where those places are and we're surrounding China, Russia or the Middle East. We seem to find ourselves in and they're more in the Asia-Pacific area now as well as everything starts to encourage back in, but that's had me travel a fair bit and see a lot of cool stuff, particularly with my background.

Sometimes I get sent to these weird and wonderful places. I probably shouldn't be specific, but I've been like Trinidad, Bulgaria, Romania, like all these weird sort of places you'd never really go to and you know I'll be integrating equipment or training equipment and there's a whole platoon of Marsoch or Navy SEALs there and you just like interesting didn't know you guys around this way sort of thing so it's good to tie back in with that and yeah so I get to see some cool places and And then a couple

of friends of ours have started a company in South Africa doing some counter poaching work. So I do that during my downtime, I take a bit of leave and go out there and train the rangers and do a bit of that. Which one? They're called Melivora Systems. Okay. Not sure. I can send you a link after this or show you their page. So they aren't here Which one? They're called Melivora Systems. Okay. Not sure.

I can send you a link after this. I'll show you their page. So they aren't here small company, but... Yeah, we've got like a small contingent of southern Africans and one of our like top Patreon active members is from Mozambique. So like, we're global. So like, they're going to be like, which one is it? Which one?

And like, yeah. They're all finicky groups too. They all hate each other. Like, they're all real. Yeah, they're all like, yeah, I guess it's like, well, there's not, there's a fair bit of work to get around.

But yeah, the money isn't huge, I guess. So maybe trying to make a life out of it over there Where it is difficult if you run one of those companies I'd say Senator chance to like migrate up to like the Congo or something because certainly that war zone needs some some tending I was up on the border of there last time when I went in Zambia. So there's the counter poaching side and the funny thing is when I went to Africa, how do I put this without throwing myself under the bus? But there are a lot more jobs going than what I realized and people starting a few things up over there that, yeah, that like that, I thought the

Wild West was kind of over hay like in some globally, like, and then you get to this place and you're like, well, the rules are pretty flexible here on what we do. And, you know, certainly, Russia and China have a lot of influence in those countries, like it's just a race for precious metals. And, you know, China comes in and goes, I'll build a road for you guys, if we can have access to this mine and whatnot.

And then Russia, they're the muscle for a lot of that security. And they're even up there, given, you know, kids, kids university degrees if they go fight in the Ukraine for a year and things like that. So, yeah, there's opportunities to Canada, whether or not Russia, at least Wagner and stuff like that, like state, as much as they say they're not, but they're state funded. But yeah, there's groups, yeah, coalition type groups out there that are trying to get things off the ground or are doing different work out there to sort of have that influence. And, you know, there's a lot of potential for recovery as well, potential for recovery as well, like hostage recovery,

recovering some of the girls, you know, they're getting taken by those terrorist groups and stuff like that. And, you know, privately, there's probably a bit of work for that. And then I know whole people, people that work in their child sex slave and child, and it's called people smuggling business as well, like stopping a lot of that.

So, I hate to work out there for that one. Globally, there's need to work for that. So, yeah, so yeah, to answer your question, long story short, yeah, there is other work out there and you probably can find it. You just sort of just turn up out there and the more you sort of hang around, the more you start to hear whispers of different things going on. And a lot of those old mercenary groups too, they got shut down back in the 90s and early

2000s, starting to, some of their CEOs are starting to pop back up and see where they can exploit. We, one of our kids actually found a couple of them and they do everything. They do UDT, they do parachuting, they do halo school. And I was like, what are you, where did you find this? He goes, you just ask around like they are here. And I'm like, bro, who are it? Like, he's, he's, he went down like a whole heap of it like paramount group and all those things and so it's it is it's wild you're like you guys can do that on the civilian side now like. Like we even I I emailed them I emailed them and they were like yeah if you can get a country sponsorship will train you and I was like. I was like, I wonder how much like Armenia is going to charge for that. Like if I could just.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if I could just. Yeah, it's crazy. Like, yeah, some friends of mine had like lunch with the, the ex, I guess CEO of member Sandline International and executive outcomes. They were like one of the biggest. Yeah. Yeah. That dude's still hanging around

and I still got plenty of contacts and stuff like that over there. So yeah, there's plenty of work. It's just trying to find it. But yeah, so that's what I do in my downtime if I get it. So go there, not a big money earner, but it's a paid adventure with the boys.

You get out and depending on whether where you do it, you get to do some hunting as well. Which sounds a bit counterintuitive when you're doing counter poaching, but actually like the hunting, the hunting stuff brings along to those sort of areas. But um, but yeah, so like, it's's funny actually they're just touching on that hunting part is like if Africa loses that which a lot of the You know like a lot of them lefty won't feel he type people You know their hearts are probably in the right place, but they don't understand it

and Those numbers are only there because like those numbers are animals only there because they're worth something to someone. So you've got a lot of local that run, yeah, indigenous locals that run cattle farms. And because, you know, that meets worth something, right? And if the oryx or the elephant is disturbing that or eating up all the food for their cattle, and it's not worth anything, like they'll set traps and those things are gone, you know, lines jumping the fence, grabbing their cattle,

they'll just poison the whole pride. I don't know how to shoot one, but you get somebody, some old rich dude that wants to pop, sessle the line for 70 grand or whatever that money goes back into, into the, uh, into, into security for the parks and different things like that. So yeah, it's a, it's a weird world. Like when I first went over there, they're like, Oh yeah, we still hunt rhino and stuff here. And you know, it's not my cup of tea, but I'll sort of think, oh, that seems a bit, I don't know if I think I'd shoot a rhino like it doesn't seem like it's, it's not hiding well or anything, it's just sleeping under a tree but but it brings like 300 US grand into like it'll pay for whole teams,

guns, vehicles and stuff for a year to protect like the other 70 or 100 rhinos that are in the park from poaching. So you're like, well, that one was probably going to die. Like, I picked like an old one that was going to fall over and die in the dust anyway. Like he was on its last leg. So that's 300,000 dollars dying in the dirt and someone doesn't shoot it. So yeah. Yeah. So they just like prop some fat American on a rascal hover around scooter. Just like aim it for him. Shoot this dying rhino. And he's just like, yes.

And it's like everyone. Yeah. Good job, buddy. And send him on his way. It's just sleeping under a tree. They're 50 meters away from it. And it's just, you know, it's not a good look, but you know, in Africa, they've got to say,

if it pays, it stays. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so, yeah. But yeah, so before that, then I spent most of my time in the military. So 17 years in Australia. I mean, with being the last 10 years was in special operations command with the second command arrangement and spent probably

half that time in the sniper teams. So yeah. And so from what I've, you guys have a lot in common, because I had to like ask the Kiwis ask some Australians stuff, but like from what I've gathered, you guys have a lot in common with the American Army Ranger Regiment. Like you're kind of the, if SAS can't get the phone, then you guys get it and you roll a lot heavier with a lot more numbers. You guys are just as well trained.

It's just you guys bring a different mass and ass to the fight versus a 12 man team. You bring the whole company of 120 or am I just speaking out of my ass? No, you were probably right at a point in time. That was the whole idea was that we would have... Commandos were Australians first special forces before SAS and commandos raised the SAS. Then commandos sort of died off for a bit,

just like a placeholder, a reservist type unit. Then it bounced back as an infantry battalion. And that was where it was an upskilled infantry battalion where I had like sort of those courses where it was, yeah, that range, that whole range are probably coming close to 75th range regiment type stuff. And then we hit, then we had the global war on terror.

Well, just, sorry, just prior to global war on terror, they realized we needed another domestic counterterrorism group. And yeah, it needed to be raised because SASR on the West Coast and it's a seven hour flight to get to anywhere. So they needed that raise to come games and a few things. And it was raised, So I needed that raise the comm games in a few things and It was right so SASR raised that capability within our unit, which was still a Infantry Battalion but commander infantry battalion. So we go on to raise that and

It was a pretty much like a no-file mission. So You know to have domestic counterterrorism ability, like there is no room for mistake. It's as good as it gets sort of thing. So we then worked with, you know, HRT, a whole lot of like interactions with different groups around the world. And we started to push forwards during the global war on terror.

So not only did we have this tier one for lack of better term, we don't have tiers in Australia, but tier one capability. Then it was pretty much decided every and only one company would go through that and you would trickle feed up as you got the specialist courses to do that. That was decided not everyone's going to do that. So the line's all I did not. Everyone's going to do that. So the line was drawn in the sand then pretty much for anyone that was skating through and would probably pushed out from the unit

and it was we were going to be in a special operations unit in our own right. And that's when we would leave the battalions and begin going to so command. So we then had this accelerated growth period where SASR had decades of growth, which they made a really good capability, but it was in low sort of war time, I guess,

like there wasn't much going on. Then when we sort of hit the go button in 2009, we changed from the battalions to our own special operations unit. We just went on accelerated growth period. So now the primary focus of our unit or my old unit is strike and recovery. And SASR are probably going back to a bit more of their roots, I guess, in the reconnaissance and probably a few other areas we don't talk about. But that more grayish type area, I guess. So if you look at our unit today, it's it's changed and downsized and twisted and changed. And yeah, there was no when they said, you know, now do freefall now do this now be the

best at the Mexican. There was no stop button. There was like much yeah. Yeah, it was funny because there's sort of some old SAS are dinosaurs and other people that would sort of go off. You know, you guys are meant to be the Rangers and we were meant to be Delta or whatever. You're like, Hey, man, they gave us money as much money as we wanted. They told us to go and venture out all over the globe and interact with Delta, DevGru, all of sort of tier one units, do exchanges. And it's a bit hard, like just to be a little bit shit, just because you want us to be shit, like, oh, oh, oh, like,

you know, like it's, and we've got like this domestic counterterrorism, which has to be world first, like there is no, but now go on to, and we call that black roll, now go on to green roll, which is the normal stuff, but now be a little bit shit because we wanna be at the top. And it's like, honestly, we should have been the answer,

SASR is probably greatest sort of success story where they've gone, hey, yeah, we're awesome, but look, we've also raised this other group that are just like kicking ass. So if you want small team, low vis stuff, yeah, that jobs ours. But if someone came to him said, hey, we want like 30 guys on target, banging in DA, direct action task or hostage recovery, they go, yeah, that's not our job. Go see those guys. But instead, we had this like fucking bad rivalry, which was prashing at times. But yeah, so today, closely modded with 22s as in any way than anyone else. In terms of domestic capability,

in terms of domestic capability and squadron size and capability. And certainly those relationships exist between those units are pretty tight. So I'd say that we closely modeled off that. SASR and 2-Commander overlap now in capability, but we're sort of going into slightly different directions They've got it sounds a lot like It sounds a lot like the story of Marsack and the recount or the force recount guys for the Marine Corps where it's like dude Hey, we got these guys. They're the the tier one or whatever. They're the forefront. They're like also There's this other side project we're working on and they like Supplemented them almost immediately. They're like they're like i do that you're taking our job.

I think. Yeah really came to the front in. In Afghanistan where like. Yeah we were sort of initially in the first couple years were pushing the bubble out to make it safe for our infantry forces so we're just The enemy was everywhere and they go I'll just go over there and see if there's someone there And if there is like kick their ass and get them out So we're just driving around and just fine running into like a woman doing that and then doing some targeting off of that

At a point in time, I think as we're in about 2008, 2009, SASR had said, hey, we don't want them doing the key leadership strikes. So they wanted to do the introduction of the key leadership, you know. Sexy job like either the mess, fly and fly out. And it was good, like it was a good idea because like why would you have us all both doing it? Like at the same time. So they said, right, well, SS, you keep this. And to me,

it was a mistake in the end to a degree for them. But and then for us, they said, well, you guys, you guys are free wheeling. So they're like, let's go hit some big enemy targets and get amongst it. And then we partnered with the DEA. So we were doing direct action tasks, night after night down in Helmand, Chewalee everywhere that we wanted to go, well, like this is the best.

And then the better part of that is they go, well, SASR's got primacy of counter leadership strikes in Orysgan. But a few guys are out there and Helman doing whatever and one pops on the phone or whatever. I just, you know, we're not calling SASR and we're gonna walk over the 500 meter compound and just go zap old mate.

So we actually got a lot more HVT's and HVIs by being just out and about, like cruising around. And, you know, SASR was so efficient in their early years in Orysgan that they killed off like all the Taliban commanders. But because they had counter-leadership, you know, like SBS was doing it down in Hellman and then, you know, had Rangers elsewhere. The Kona SAS got stuck in Ory's Garden, and it was just like a bit of a yawn fest in the end.

Like it was just like, if they wanted us to do a job in Ory's Garden in the later years, you just like, I'm not getting out of bed for anything less than 20 enemy type thing. So I think we definitely got the good end of the stick. And so we're just running. And so how could you not get better? Right? You're doing direct action tasks night after night. You're going home, you're getting on domestic counterterrorism. How could you not be the subject matter expert in that? We're seeing what works or doesn't work and you're doing maybe two or three hits every night. To expect us not to grow and have specially selected people

have gone through hard selection, a year's worth of courses to get there and then for them not to evolve into something like exceptional, like you'd sort of be asking, hey, like who you're recruiting here? These guys at boobs. I haven't I haven't done anything yet So yeah, so yeah So that At the history and a bit of a nutshell of the development. So yeah to answer your question closely Probably closely resemble more to and then even Delta in some respects It's just Australian Army is um, Pobbo terms of our, um, assets. So like we, you know,

we've got a lot of assets for domestic counterterrorism, but then when we deploy, we really do have to lean on, on the U S and others to get assets. When were you, when was this? When were you guys doing this? Um, yeah. So my first deployment was 2007 and that was when we were still part of the battalion by infantry battalion but a commando regiment and then it changed halfway between in my 0-9 trip, I don't know, I'm tripping change halfway. And that's when we had decided that we'd get all the same courses as SASR, or the ones applicable to us anyway, and then we would be our own sort of unit.

And then that's when the chop came and we joined SoCMAP proper. And yeah, but then pretty much from 2010 onwards, up until we left in 2013 was yeah, all out. Don't feel heavy, direct action stuff. What do you and I were talking about this yesterday where. There was Rangers, Marsoch, you know, SAS, Brits, Americans, Australians. Where the hell were the Taliban coming from? Because of everyone's getting killed.

That's why I'm sitting here. I'm sitting. I knew it. I knew this was going to happen because he was right. So that was my AO was Kandahar Helmand and then up to Tac West. And I don't know if... So the general who was in charge of Kandahar got shot in an attempted assassination attempt. And then General Shanahan took over.

I was sent down and Shanahan's Australian. So I was sent down to go augment the aviation brigade down there and play with that. And so you're talking about these places, and it was like, we never went into the Shawali Cod. And then a Ruse gun was a fortress when I was there in 18 and 19. So between July to March, a Rusgun was a fortress. There were OGA units who lost guys up there. Legit DEA, three-letter agency guys were getting capped up there. It was a monster. And everything you're saying, yeah, dude, you're making me

die laughing because you're like, yeah, we were in Hellman like hitting targets every night. I was like, brother man, we couldn't like, Hellman was such a heroin factory. Like we were looking at the DEA and like they were getting mad because they had me pick up the Lithuanian and the Polish mission for targeting as well. So I was helping them out doing aerosol missions every night, two to three a night. And like you said, the DEA guys were like smoking cigarettes, doing like two missions a night, just like they couldn't stop finding Taliban heroin dealers. And so when you said, you're like, yeah, we were hitting, we were working with the DEA.

It was like, uh, the good. So the camera off? Yeah, I'll turn my camera off. All right. Yeah, I'll do it too Yeah, I got you got me. Yeah, so But yeah, I was laughing because I was like, yeah the minute you said you were attached to the drug mission I was like that dude probably never slept and there you said it you're like you're hitting more targets than the SASR It's like, well, yeah, there's nothing but drugs in Afghanistan. Oh, it was.

Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. Like, particularly as a sniper, we were out on sniper tasks as well. And most of the time they wanted on the DA's, they wanted snipers out there. So we'd be out in the field doing another task. on the DA's that wanted snipers out there. So we'd be out in the field doing another task, finding dudes to get rid of and either calling the strike teams in

once we'd sort of done like a stronghold shrinkage and found the exact target to her after or bombing or shooting. And we'd come back and they'd have half our orders written up. We'd have something to eat, finish off our orders group, have like an hour of sleep, then jump on a bird just after dark and off we go. And just bang into a three a night and get back

and sort of reset, we go. Yeah, she's intense four month period. I think a member doing like 68 direct action tasks in that four months, plus like a a couple other gigs and stuff like that. So yeah, dude, we that Matt's right because I told him I was like I told Matt I was like, he's going to say it. I know he's going to say something that's going to make me because like we did over 300 air assault missions, not including ground assault missions. And so I'm sitting here listening to you talk about this. I'm remembering my time there like the ranger regiment had like a

Attest to see how many HVTs they could each kill in third battalion one because that's anger battalion there in Georgia And they hate their lives, but they killed like they killed like 4000 HVTs And so like over a nine month period they killed like 12,000 HVTs And so I told that I was like he's gonna say it He's gonna say all this stuff that the Commandos did. And I'm going to ask, wherever the Taliban getting these guys, like, I don't understand how over like an eight year time period between like your experience and then like five years later, like my experience, it's like, man, it was just, it just didn't stop.

Well, I think obviously we created more on our on our journey. Some of the ones that were probably kids when I first started and probably fighters by the time I got there in the end. But also, I think like 2011, 2011, 2010, sort of 2011, we had, we had huge insurgent groups on, I think like 2011, 2011, 2010, sort of 2011, we had huge insurgent groups. I think special operations and regular army forces, we had this insurgency on the ropes in 2011. And they're going in like, you know, they say you can't kill out an ideology. Well, we were going in and killing out valleys full of Taliban. We were going in and killing hundreds. And we'd check it back in at six months time or a year's time. They're like,

nah, they didn't come back. They're all dead. But then, you know, I don't know how political you want to get. But Obama announced, you know, essentially for boats, he announced the drawdown in 2011 announced that in 2013, come win or lose, we're going to start drawing down. You know, that's like telling Nazi Germany, hey, we'll be out of Poland in two years, like win or lose. And you know, so so like the Taliban started to disengage. We noticed a change in tactics from 2011 to 2013

where they would disengage a lot if they could. Because they knew that we were leaving, right? Like, but at the same time, now you've got these police forces and civilians that had sided with us who are all stuck in the middle who are now like, oh fuck, we better, we better mend some bridges here with the Taliban because these guys are leaving. So then we saw an uptick in numbers of Taliban because you've got these young blokes that probably don't want to be left there and killed

and that have now joining the Taliban to solidify their position of power and safety and for their survivalist culture and to protect their families for once we leave. So we started seeing uptick in numbers and we definitely know some of the police that our partner forces that we're working with were making side deals with the Taliban. Yeah, and so like it could only sort of go that direction. Once you sort of let them know that we're leaving, like what are these

guys meant to do? And so yeah, we saw an uptick in the numbers. So when you sort of say where were the numbers coming from? Well, Obama probably helped create some of those. Yeah. Like the dudes had to make a decision and had to make a decision early. And you can't really fault them for it, to be honest. Like, yeah, like, I agree, 2013 might have been a good drawdown day, but you certainly don't announce it. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about the survivalist culture, you get that announcement that the Americans are going to leave soon. They just got to wait us out. You could lose 12,000 guys over the course of nine months and you're like, yeah, we still got 42 million. We're good. Yeah, that's exactly right.

They just start off and wait us out essentially and then, yeah, then everyone else had to make a decision. It's just a betting game like will the Americans win by 2013 or will they not and who will choose and decide with them. Yeah that's how it sort of happened. I think the Afghan National Army probably had a chance at one point but then it sort of just fell apart. Yeah. I mean, it, how do I put this? So a big thing about looking back on that is that like somewhere along the line, like you're saying, like there's the Obama thing, there's,

you know, ISIS was a big one. I was in, there's kind of like these moments that as we do this podcast and we're talking to you about your time in and obviously to see you go from all these deployments to Southern Afghanistan and say, hey, I was there when Obama said this and then we started seeing the side deals come in. The other thing was like the war in Iraq and the ISIS fight pulled away 5th Special Forces Group, which was assigned to Afghanistan. It's assigned to the Middle East, but they are Arabic speaking. They are professionals in the Middle East. There's guys who are Pashtun Afghans who are Green Berets and Fist Special Forces group. And so they had all the advantage in the world going to Afghanistan, but they were pulled away

to Iraq. And so you had guys like Seventh Group who were assigned to South America going there. You had Tenth Group guys, Green Berets, who were assigned to Europe, and they were working with translators. And so it kind of became this thing that as time went on, from my perspective, at least, it was like SOF was losing that war because there was just this mindset shift from, we're going to try and build the ANA up, we're going to build the ANP up, we're going to build this political structure to like, no, we're just going to see how many HVT bodies we can collect and just try to kill the Taliban off. I mean, when I was there, General Miller, who's the guy in charge of Afghanistan,

was literally saying, he went full general Westmoreland from Vietnam. He's like, I want to kill count. And it was like, what are we doing here at this point, bro? Like, we're just redoing it. And so that's interesting to hear you say that that the Obama effect it had. For the Australians, was there an ROE or not so much an ROE, but like a road to victory? Because we know for a fact for the Americans, there wasn't outside of like nation building. I don't know if there was anything kind of similar for the coalition forces.

No, not really. Like I think, you know, our job was to secure Ory's Garden with the dacha, whoever else was there, and then start the rebuilding and westernizing of this place. But we put in Karzai. And when I say we as a coalition, we just didn't realize like, how much Afghans don't approve of a centralized government. Like they don't run that way. And we thought by putting someone in Kabul, or Kabul, Kandahar, wherever, they would listen to these people,

but in the provinces, they run it the way that they wanna run it. So it was never, yeah, we were trying to run it the way that they want to run it. So it was never, yeah, we were trying to run it off a centralized government and do all these rebuilding tasks for like someone that didn't really want it. Like it's not like they weren't appreciative, but it's like, yeah, we were just doing it for the sake of doing it, you know, and then we talk about special forces, we had our partner forces.

We had really good partner forces at the start. And they had high hopes for the country and they were really good, but they were disbanded because of jealousy from another high ranking Afghan army. And really we were supposed, then we got other other afghan forces and we were really supposed to stand them up as a Capability to fight but they were They were just not really interested. Hey, so like you know the first shots ring out and you'd look back to them And they're looking for a place in the creek line to set up for lunch while you go on to a battle And and that's a legitimate

Like we're running back to them at some point and picking up ammo off their Vanessa in lunch or rain sack and a house of some description and sort of like they're just checking in like, oh, how's it all going? You're like, oh, shit, hot sort of thing. Like, and you're going back into the fight. And so we got a bit used to that. And so we didn't depend on them. So we didn't really force them into the fight at all. we got a bit used to that. And so we didn't depend on them. So we didn't really force them into the fight at all. One, because we were having fun mostly during the DAs, anyone. And, you know, trying to get our own objectives out of it, which is generally just having a better war story than your mate. But, yeah, so, you know, we know, we probably should have,

in hindsight, we probably should have put more effort into making them do the work, which we only really did in the last year and it was probably, you know, 10 years too late. So yeah, to say that we had a roadmap, not really, I think it was all heading in the right direction, but it was like, it was cut either cut short, or yeah, I don't know, it's hard to say like, we didn't know what timeline we're working on,

right? Like, and then all had more given an end date, like an end date that seemed real close to me, like, you know, I was there in 2011 to say 2013 was going to be my last trip to Afghanistan. there in 2011 to say 2013 was going to be my last trip to Afghanistan in the proper form that we were doing in those big rotations. It was a bit surprising to be honest. So one of the things, because I did nine months there, I didn't pick up on the counter-narcotics till month four and working with the Lithuanians and the Polish on that. I will say that that mission set was far more rewarding, far better. If I had to pick one mission set where it's like, no, we're just going to kill dudes. It had to be the counter narcotics mission because, yeah, there's like... So have you read the book, The Dark Art? Shit,

let me find the author. But it's about the DEA agents in Afghanistan during that time. And they talk about how the American army didn't really prioritize the counter-narcotics mission, but the DEA is sitting because it was under MI5 and the Brits. They were in charge of it. And it's like 90% of heroin that goes into Europe is from Afghanistan. And it's like a multi-million dollar thing. It also helps the Russian mafia. So it's like, because they've long story short, the Russians know how to get the narcotics out of there. And then they push it into Europe and it funds like all this massive amounts of like human trafficking, child trafficking, money, just huge black market operations. And so like, if there was anything that just like needed

to get shot and like killed out of Afghanistan It was probably the counter narcotics mission, but it wasn't yeah And so like I I tell guys like all the time I'm like look like if it wasn't for that like yeah I'd probably be like really upset about Afghanistan, but to have taken part in that and stepped foot in it I'm I tell everyone. I'm like no, we did good things there. There's a lot of heroin there. I think so. Like you said, 90% and the stats we had back here is 90% of the globes, opium, canada there. It's such a barren, shitty country for them to be able to grow.

barren shitty country for them to be able to grow. Yeah. And you know, one of the funny thing is early on, we'd spoken to the DEA about and they pushed this all the way up their chain too. And I don't want to get all the details wrong, but I'm going to say the story anyway. As we talked about, hey, how about we try and get the Afghans to legalise, like grow legitimate opium for like medicinal purposes. And it was put up through a lot of different governments and governments and everywhere. And from what we heard is, one, it was a bit hard to do because it was an unstable region, but also that a lot of these big rich farmer

companies that already grow the opium pretty much shut it down and didn't want to lose out. So like, you know, we tried to think outside the box a couple of times, like to make this, you know, the illegal part of it go away. And it was just shut down at like, well, well, well above my pay grade type of thing. So, but yeah, absolutely right. Like in terms of rewarding, once we were doing a DA hits, you know, we would go only go out with sort of six to 12 fast guys. And, you know, we were there to protect them because they knew what they were looking for and then we would blow it all up and you know, the Taliban didn't want those drug labs to go away anytime soon because of the money they

were burning through there. So we were there for the Taliban and they didn't ever gave up those easily and especially when you landed in the especially when you landed in the middle of Helmand and then just fought your way out. And sometimes we go in there for a couple of days and we've just been going from one place to another. And yeah, we did some absolutely crazy jobs against some massive amounts of enemy in there. Even to this day you sort of think back and just go Jesus like how did we pull that off? Yeah, most of the time like you know anyway taking casualties while doing it

not as many as what we should have to be honest but you know and it was just a wild time like it was definitely the wildest job you could do over there. You were literally stealing millions of dollars from bad dudes that don't want you to steal those millions of dollars and I. Quite happy to throw everything out here to stop you from doing it and yeah we had a hell of a time. Yeah dude there's some Cody a few times remember if you was a few months ago, he was talking about the three different types of people. There's the good ones, the ones who are a little misguided, and then there's the heroin-smuggling human traffickers in Afghanistan.

You're like, those guys got to go. So whatever he is, a good thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I'll hit you with that. But no, I remember those missions in Seng and Dude, just watching those from like a targeting like ISR perspective and like just sitting there with the Medivac,

like the PJs, like just watching, you're just waiting. You're like, there's gotta be something tonight. Like there's no way these guys, and then it's like, oh, well, they did get out of there, you know, and drones and Apaches are going off. So it's like, yeah, those fights were, I mean, five years later, they were still hell on earth. But no, that's right. And one of the things I said on the podcast, and it comes from that, exactly what you're saying, because there

were warehouses and sang and helmet and those areas, it's like, look, man, there's three types of people in this world. There's the ones where you have people who can get along, they can come to the middle, they can discuss politics, like right, left, liberal, conservative. And most people are like that, they're about 60% like that. And then you have like probably 30% of people who are like, hey, I don't agree with you and I'm gonna fight about it. And I'm really mad, like I'm gonna do like bad shit. Like I don't

agree with you. And then really all it takes is one person to do like one of these right here. Really how much do you feel like that is part of you? And they go, no, no, no, no, no, I'm good. But then there's like, you know, like those guys in Sangen or the Chechens in Afghanistan who are just like, no, no, I'm willing to die over this. And you're like, okay, I've got something for that. Meet, you know, second commando regimen. And you guys are like, where to party, baby? And so I think it sort of like touched on it too before about, you know, like, yeah, some people are pretty taught, like, you know, obviously the way Afghanistan fell in the end was pretty abysmal. And you know, it shouldn't have gone that way, even if we were pulling out like the

fall of it was fucking atrocious. But I also think, you know, there's some people still pretty cut up and, you know, struggle mentally with, with, you know, leaving Afghanistan. And you know, everyone would have liked to have seen Afghanistan be a better country and those girls continue to go to school and whatnot. There's no doubt about that. Like, if you met a turner inside, sits in everyone's brain to a degree. But I think the bonus for us is that we weren't, we weren't part of the rebuilding process. Like, we never rebuilt a school for anyone,

never spent months in one spot helping a village rebuild. They basically just said, we're there for the worst of the worst. Like it's not like we didn't have good interactions with the people when we did have the small interactions that we did, but all we were there is for blowing shit up and killing dudes. So I think, you know, and then from even a CEO, CEO perspective after 2011, sorry, after the Twin Towers, you know, they that all the

intelligence agencies around the world wanted time to catch up, right? They wanted time to be able to track these dudes. They didn't want that type of thing to happen again. I think the CIA's motto was never again or whatever it was. And so, you know, tying up those bad dudes over there and in a war and keeping them off the streets of Australia, Europe, or flying more planes into the States, I'm quite happy to dish it out to them over there if all the crazies wanted to come fight it out.

And I sort of take that away as a bonus from that war. Whereas, yeah, we sort of don't have that connection to the country just because we didn't have those interactions with the people themselves as much. So like, sure, we felt sorry for our soldiers, but yeah, we were there for the worst of the worst. And that's what we saw most of the time. So we just never really had that connection.

And most of us thought that it had ended that way, the way that it did, to be honest. Yeah. You know, it's like people ask me about it now. I'm like, it's just Afghans doing Afghan things. Like it is what it is. I have a question that's a little, I guess, like a same ballpark, a little different area. Since you were doing counterterrorism inside of Australia, was the eye on Indonesia a lot because they had a lot of fighters go up to the Philippines to join ISIS in Mindanao? Because

it's the largest Muslim country on the planet. Was there anything over the course of 20 years? Did you guys were like focusing on that region? Not really. We, well, there's always focus there because they have what's that group called up there. I can't even think of them off the top. Dude, I love this one. The Muslim Islamic or it's like the Malaysian Islamic Liberation Front, Milf. Yeah. the Muslim Islamic or it's like the Malaysian Islamic Liberation Front, Milf? Yeah, that's it. There's another one too up there though. I just can't think of it. That's a pretty well-renowned. But like, oddly no, like, it was always being looked at in the intelligence point of views always because we had the Bali bombings up there which is not too far from Australia in 2002 I feel which claimed a lot of Australian lives so it was there but surprisingly we didn't have that radicalization of those that Indonesian sort of thing moving down

towards Australia which which is odd I've not thought about until you sort of posed that question. But Indonesia is actually a really interesting case in terms of Islamic radicalization, like largest Muslim country in the world. And to be honest, like there's not a lot of terrorism that comes out of there. Like there is some, obviously, but compared to like elsewhere. But yeah, no, it was more like homegrown radicalization, I think, and people that had come

from the Middle East that were our focus. Because ours is domestic counterterrorism. Yeah, sure, we'd have reach for hostage recovery, like offshore hostage recovery, but it was mainly focusing back here in Australia, and there was enough little cells running around here to keep us sort of focused and be in line with, yeah, to be on standby while our security agencies track them and follow them around the place. Interesting. Okay.

Another, so the next question I've got for you is obviously we've got to sit back and we've got to watch Ukraine and we've gotta watch Israel. You can do both, you can do one, but we've talked about it a lot. We're like, this whole Ukraine thing, it's just, people are, so for instance, hey, tanks are obsolete. There's these new drones and these ATGMs and then you've got guys like AFV recognition and a bunch of other tankers we're friends with. They're like with they're like They're just not doing good tank maneuvers

Is there anything that you're seeing that you're like wow, that's that's impressive like that's new that's good Or you just or is there anything that you're seeing out there in either conflict where you're like that's not good soldiering Like that's just absolute horseshit like that's not innovative. That's just stupidity Yeah, well, I think the drawing thing is 100% a big threat, right? Like, and everyone's doing it with off the shelf drawings now. I don't know if you guys have seen the Australian flat packed cardboard drawings that have headed out there. Okay. Have you seen those or heard of those? No, no, I haven't. I can't be here in Australia's design. These you order these drones are in a flat pack. They're made of cardboard. They're big like I'm talking about two or three meter wingspan. Yeah, I it together with rubber bands, the sticky tape and tacks,

and it can carry a five kilo payload, little camera and stuff like that. And undetectable by radar and stuff like that. So like, and they're cheapest chips, like an easy to ship around. Anyway, so you're seeing a lot of cool stuff like that go out there and then like a proper a lot of drones I Think to say tanks are obsolete would be a bit naive because the as we know I don't and it's just not in that theater

It's not everywhere in the UK theater, but that that stuff can be shut down pretty easily in terms of drawing the drawings can be turned off and and there's more funding and more, I guess, things of that nature being built with that anti-drone capability. So like, if you're to say, oh, let's go with less tanks and then someone to and go with more drones, but then someone with a good EW attack system just turns off all those drones or knocks them all out of the sky Then what do you got left like those guys in the trenches are now running across the Across still in like real world. What which I pretty much are anyway

They look like a mix of modern warfare and World War two, which is why But yeah, I don't know it's a it's know. It's a weird mix. I think it's like, yeah, it's definitely a weird mix of technology and old school fighting there in the Ukraine and Russia. But I don't know. I think tanks are obsolete, not yet. So moving to the next one, Israel, coming from a direct action role. I mean, so having helped plan these operations, like when we see Israel going into Gaza and they're doing this slow creep, they're bringing in the Markavas for it. It looks a lot like Iraq, Saudi city, or Fallujah, like when the Marines are the army, just kind of crept in slow and steady at night,

just kind of clearing it top to bottom, going through. Are you seeing anything? Or are you just like, you know, that's good, that's bad, like from a technique perspective, like TTPs and SOPs, or are you just, what, not? Yeah, so I followed a bit, I've been to Israel and did some breaching stuff out there a couple of years back. Yeah, which was really interesting from a humanitarian point of view or a CIVCAS point of view. They criticized pretty heavily for CIVCAS. And I went out there and they designed this a manual, sorry,

electrohydraulic breaching system which is you know probably one of the better ones in the world at the moment, Sarn breaching kit it's called and they're showing us some videos and some of the hits they've done on HBT's there and their their TTPs, tactic, technique, and procedures, was they would put no explosive charge on their door, but then they would electrohydraulic breach to minimize SIVCAS, because obviously these people had families, right? And if they took fire at any time during the breach,

they would step back and then blow the door and go in. And I just found that really interesting as a TTP, whereas we would just put a charge and blow if we were going after a HPP like it's fucking, I'm not ginning around at the door like. But, you know, a lot of people go, oh, I don't care about the CivCas. I'm like, well, they've designed a whole bit of equipment

and I was watching them, their TTP cas. I'm like, well, they've designed a whole bit of equipment and I was watching them their TTPs were built off sieve cas like minimizing it and Then I went and did some stuff for the snipers and all their snipers had cameras on their stuff on their Sniper rifles and they'll show me some of the sort of stuff that they've done and sniper rifles and they'll show me some of the sort of stuff that they've done. And basically it's because the Palestinians would come and claim compensation if old John O'Copter round, you know, and they come and say, oh, you killed our dad and he was just walking to school or whatever. And then they show the video footage of their dad actually piffing a grenade over the fence

and there's no combination right. So they've got a whole lot of this tech built around showing and I was sort of like, hey, you should probably show this to the rest of the world. Like, because everyone sort of hates you. And they're like, well, it's no one else's business. And I was like, yeah, I kind of get what you're saying. But, but yeah, it was, I just saw as an interesting point just to see how they were focused on CIFCAS. In terms of what they're doing now, you know, I do feel for the Palestinian people that are trapped in that sort of place. But what

a lot of people don't understand is a lot of people looking at Gaza as a city. Like if you look at Gaza as a fortress, like a fortress that people live in rather than a city that has some bad deeds in it, you'll probably see it in a better light. And essentially that's what it is. Like all the tunnel systems are built under the hospital, I was like, oh, they're bombing the hospital? And you're like, yes, mate, because that's where the biggest fucking case of weapons are, sort of thing. They don't want to bomb the hospital. They've been dropping leaflets for the last week,

saying get the fuck out of the hospital. But it's just a thing of tunnel systems and IEDs. And I think that slow grind unfortunately is the only way to do it right like to not hit all those booby traps because that place has just rigged up. Yeah they probably could have opened that humanitarian corridor a little bit better but then there's a lot of intel to say that you know ISIS have got their little feet in there as well. And they're trying to cut off that humanitarian corridor, Hamas is as well, because their whole thing is having Civcats,

having civilians there either stops the Israelis from bombing, or if they do get bombed, they get a PR win with being able to splash it all over the news. So, I mean, it's a real hard situation to be in. I think they should sort of, my personal opinion is probably let Israel keep going on the grind and clear a big space between them and a bit of a no man's land.

But at the same time, they probably need to relook at some of those borders that have been stretched by Israel over the last 50 years and maybe relinquish some of that land. When it comes to the 47 borders, When it comes to the humanitarian corridor, I learned this recently that it's Israel and then it's Egypt. But ISIS Sinai is still a very much active component of the ISIS wing inside that entire region It's it's pretty it's pretty derelict in terms of infrastructure So I think the Egyptians had a tough call this to make where they sat down there like we're not gonna risk one We already have an insurgency. We're not gonna bolster that because the Israelis are going to war with Moss

So yes, it's definitely a complex situation, but I found that out recently. Yeah, super complex. Like, oh, I just, yeah, I just hate to hate to be, I saw like a man the other day, it was just, you know, everyone's asking for a ceasefire.

It was like, oh, we had a ceasefire on the 6th of October, but you changed that on the 7th. So, yeah, it's, um, oh, we had a ceasefire on the 6th of October, but you changed that on the 7th. So, I don't know. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's a real, man, it's tough because like, I got friends that are sort of, yeah, I've got our friends and obviously they're very anti-Jewish and, yeah, and hate it. And I can sort of see both sides, but if you look at that attack in isolation, October 7th, like, you know, what can you do? You can't do nothing.

Yeah, I mean, I've said it on the podcast before, but it's like, you know, when Netanyahu got up there and he said, you know, I declare war, I was like, uh-oh, like, that's, he said the magic word war, like, this isn't a, you know, I declare war. I was like, Oh, like that's he said the magic word war. Like this isn't a, you know, a policing action. This isn't a counterterrorism action. This is war. Like this, we haven't heard anybody say that since like, you know, war, war two or Korea. And it's like, that's a big word. I wonder if he actually, yep, he meant it. Yep. He really meant it. And it's like, you know, he's going to, you know, you know, we were just talking about this, you know, like Afghanistan and the three types of people like Netanyahu is going to, you know, hey, if you're willing to die for this, like, I'm your Huckleberry. I'll do it for you. Like, but don't be surprised when, you know, Israel, who's one of the best in counterterrorism, does really good at war. It's like, well, you kind

of like, what were you expecting when you opened that bag? I've looked at it as, say someone like Hamas could see themselves as getting martyred. Because if you look at the entire geopolitical situation, Hamas had an ability to throw a wrench in this bizarre deal between Egypt, Israel, and Saudi Arabia to come together as a coalition to curb incidences in the region. The biggest catalyst in the neighborhood is Iran, who props up Hamas and Hezbollah. Hamas could have been a sacrificial lamb to get martyred, to have the entire peace plan, if you want to call out that, disintegrate. As soon as the October 7 attack happened, Saudi Arabia Arabia immediately said we're not working with the Israelis

anymore until they cease all actions so if the Americans bigger plan is to withdraw their troops in the region and to like let it actually stand its own two feet there's no way it's gonna happen now so maybe if that was the plan not saying it was but if that was the plan it definitely worked. Yeah and it's definitely some deals going through that got scuttled between, yeah, like some of those peace plans between Saudi, Israel, even Jordan, you know, been sort of friends for a while, friends on the surface anyway. And yeah, some of those deals were about to be signed and Hamas has just scuttled that, you know, like

and Now you look at like this heaps of instability all through that region now like The laughable thing is that you know, I think what a What a Palestinian Sunni Sunni Palestinians? I'm asking Sunni I think Yeah, and I like yeah, that have to be because ISIS is early in there, right? And then you've got Iran, that's Shia,

who like got Hezbollah up to the North there, who hate like generally hate Sunnis as well. So, but both are willing to like squeeze Israel and then somehow you've united the Shia extremists and the Sunni extremists and like Yeah, it's a hot on I have down. It's a wall. Yeah, it's uh, yeah, it's it's bizarre cuz you know The Iranians are Shia, but they're also we want to get rid of Israel no matter No matter the cause so they're gonna work with whoever they can or whoever sympathetic to them would be it

Houthis, you know, his Bala Hamas. They're like, they're going to work with these guys. And then they'll deal with petty religious differences later. Well, in Iraq, Iraq's a perfect prime example of what's happening there now is, you know, we worked along a predominantly Shia military when we're fighting ISIS. And even the Shia militia weasled their way in there and it was a bit of a murky sort of world that we're dealing with. But as soon as ISIS sort of pretty much toppled now,

like Shia militias, the ones that probably were working alongside a foreign rocket, so out into outposts, rocket, they had to enter outposts. Well, one hit that Jordan outpost what last night or yesterday, killing three US soldiers and injuring 25 or something like that. So yeah, it's funny. They'll deal with one and then they just turn pretty quick actually in Iraq. Was there ever any?

Because Saddam Hussein was Sunni, he was a huge persecutor against the Shia, and then the US showed up, they were like, if the Sunnis are the problem, we're just going to prop up all the Shias, which then gave an outlet for the Iranians to have their hands in government. Was there ever an Australian politician or general that grabbed an American who was like, dude, what are you doing? Think bigger. Was there ever a chance of that? No, probably not. My experience with Iraq was I didn't go to the war in 2003. I went

to Afghan every second year from 2007 or was deployed from 2007 all the way up to 2013. So I kept down to that first Iraq war. Well, not first, I think there was several three leading up to where I had never I got there. But I only went there for ISIS. So yeah, I can't really talk on that 2003 period and how they dealt with, I just wasn't concentrating on it to be honest, I was sort of, yeah, trying to get into special forces then. So yeah, it's a bit hard to say, like, yeah, it was a shit fight from the start.

Obviously, in hindsight, we probably shouldn't have been there at all. And I think that's what makes people like real sketchy on Ukraine and Russia too, right? Like, Ukraine didn't have a really good track record in what they were doing prior to Russia's assault. So like, you'll see a lot of people not wanting to, you know, like, I don't really know enough about, I don't know, is there a good verse bad up there or is it bad and then slightly

more bad fighting each other? I don't know. Like it's not usually, uh, who's willing to work with us? So yeah, who's flying the most American flags over here. You okay, you'll do like. Yeah. So like, they're sort of like, yeah, you know, people have been tricked into into wars before.

So, you sort of look at it and just go, ah, probably not going to get involved in that massive I can help it. So the last question I've got for you and Matt, if you got any after on so, you know, yeah, you're coming back into Instagram, you're doing all this stuff. I see you doing like the precision shooting and I mean, it's limited. But like, like I said, I've told Carl from CSRC, I've told Dingo, I'm like, I wish I could just get you guys to America and just like, have you guys teach courses and stuff like that because you've got an institutional knowledge

that needs to be cataloged for at least posterity sake. But is there something that you're seeing, whether it's training gear, guns, anything like that, that you're just on the edge of your chair like, no, Remington 700s are the worst rifle ever or something you're seeing out there that's just bothering you that you're just on the edge of your chair, like no, Remington 700s are the worst rifle ever, or something you're seeing out there that's just bothering you that you'd like to get out there. Man, not really. I think there's a lot of shitty guns out there

that say doubt about it. But our exposure to weapons like we had spoke about before is limited in comparison to what your guys are exposed to. So it's pretty hard for me to commentate. And I didn't go to Shot Show this year. And usually I've gone a few years in a row. And thank God I didn't. I lose my soul there every time I go, but it's just too much, but it's sort of hard to say, like what's rubbish and what's not at the moment. I do, you know, Daniel Defense is getting what they're getting some carbines out here. And I find their carbines really good. And I'm running like one of their long guns, which is exceptional at the moment, one of their bolt guns. But then I see stuff on the US side that I don't know, Daniel the fence has said some

two alpha type things that a lot of people don't agree with and they always cop and flat for that. So I don't want to. Yeah, it's it. And I don't agree with and they always cop and flat for that. So I don't want to. Yeah, it's a no no no. Obviously, they've said something to piss everyone off. As a tradition, make some good gear anyway. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I guess I got one more. So since you are do have the commando background, have you ever taken a look at the Marine Corps, our Marine Corps vision for countering China, which is essentially island hopping?

Yeah, so like, you know, before I left, and I left a defense quite a while ago, So, yeah, China was always, you know, we were told a decade ago that we should be at war by now with them or China would be at war with someone. I think a war with China is going to be super difficult. I think that we're actually leaving it real late in the game where China's getting their greasy little mix in what they're doing with Africa and they're getting out to these islands and they're building roads and everything for exchanges

to have like a little base there or a naval or a dock that they own and stuff like that. I think the US, Australia and anybody else in the region should be doing that because you look at, like you just said, Marine Island hopping, it's gonna be a lot more difficult when China already established on those sort of spots where we could already have people there, to be honest.

Even if it's just like, like I said with that, foreign military sales training that I do, like, you know, that have a platoon of SEALs out there training whoever, training them training him encounter insurgency and things like that would definitely benefit that island hopping ability. Cause I like, hopefully China's got an army like Russia thought they had. And it turns out to be a bit of a fizzer. I got a sneaking suspicion that they don't I think they've actually got may have some capability

But yeah, I think yeah, I don't know how you'd fight that the island hopping which probably gonna be One of your best bets to hold solid ground because like if you look at some of the the weapon nature's of China's got When they're saying that they can destroy and tie battle fleets with hypersonic missiles and stuff like that. So at the end of the day, it's going to come down to big bombs, I think, and then troops back on the ground to do mopping up sort of exercise or mopping up operations. I do also want to thank you for congratulating you to coming back to Instagram just in time to have your entire feed be just horrific car accidents for hours and hours. I don't know if you've seen those but they're out there. It's a there's a Tom Segura who's like Joe Rogan's one of Joe Rogan's friends. He was was talking about this. Because Twitter is dying and they don't know where to go, the trolls of the internet. And Mark Zuckerberg's starting to do BJJ and get onto testosterone and lift weights and

stuff and challenge Elon Musk to a UFC fight. The Meta Code. I know you just got a post blocked for the gun post, but it's like you're starting to see like trolls of the internet start to come to Instagram. And like, you know, nobody wants to be on Facebook like you're saying. So it's just like, you know, they want to avoid their grandma.

So they're like, okay, I'll go to Instagram. And so it's like this rising tide of like the trolls, the dudes on the internet, the guys are all coming back to Instagram. It's kind of weird. And it's like, what's going on? A lot of feeds and stuff. Oh, dude, all day.

I mean, there's an entire page. It's so funny. I watched at least four deaths today. Yeah, so funny. I got sent a video yesterday on Instagram. So I'm sharing it with you. I'm going to share it with you. A bunch of refugees, I've seen this one, they come up to a ship of some description, I think it's out there near Greece or somewhere. And like, so it's

a full raft of men, like probably 20 or 30 dudes. And they pull up next to the ship and then they they sink their own little inflatable so that you know, that's what they do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pick up pick them up. But the guys don't pick them up. And then it's just a shark frenzy just goes to town on what these dudes and all there is is also it's like floating it is horrendous. And I'm like, how is this on Instagram? But I tried to post about a I'm like, yeah, it's on Instagram, but I tried to post about a change in a bubble. I can bolt-action rifle. I'm the bad guy, but fucking 25 feet in eating from the waist down. That's perfectly fine.

We used to be a different page. We used to be a page called Crotone Report. We had like 25,000 followers on there. He posted one video early on in the Ukraine war of like a Russian tank blowing up these Ukrainians and then it was just instantly shadow banned. He couldn't get above 23,000 followers if he paid. And now like two years later. That was something crazy.

Like all the, if I posted a story or we get like maybe a hundred views, the page was dead. But you're like, oh, I could watch a feel the Russians get ripped apart by landmines and it's completely fine. You're like, huh, all right. OK, that's fine. I saw one the other day, the, you know, Russian gets a grenade dropped on him and he gets fragged up a bit and he just rolls over and puts the AK under his chin and blows the top of his head out on the side wall. But yeah, once again, mine's been a barrel change. Dude, I saw that on your page and I just kind of, you know, because all dudes are the same.

I was just on the toilet. I was like, he's going to be big mad about that, man. Just kind of keep scrolling. Just kind of like, you know, I mean, I told Cole and a bunch of the other pages, I'm like, you can't, if you're on Instagram and you have more than a thousand followers, especially if you're in the military zone, feel free to reach out to us because you're going to get hate comments. You're going to get DMs all the time. And me and Matt, we eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner Like CSRC, Carl, he's like, do you see that? He'll like message me at like,

you know, like two in the morning, he'll be like, did you see the shit in the comments? And it's like some guy who was like a medic in Ukraine, like fact checking him. He's like, no, snipers can't do that. And he's like, motherfucker, like I was a sniper in Afghanistan. What do you mean? Yeah, he's like, I've seen it in Ukraine and he's like, ah, ah, just like send me screenshots. He's like, I hate this, I hate this whole thing. Like, isn't it? It's just, yeah, like the era of expertise is over and like anyone can have an opinion. Like, and you know, like, I'm a fan of free speech, like, everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone's qualified to it. So speech, but everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone's qualified to it.

So like, but you will just get these people going, oh, you can't do that, or it's been sped up, or it's like, yeah, it's a joke. And you're just like, well, I've literally done it, or I've seen it, or they're talking about things that are probably secret capabilities, and you're just looking and laughing and going, mate, we can outdo that in about half a second flat.

Like, but obviously you can't share that on. Yeah. But yeah, it's a I mean, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Oh, we do. Yeah. We absolutely love it. I mean, there's there's been times. Who was it? Uh, it it? He's a meme page. He's in our little Patreon group and he's just like, he wrote this whole thing up about like,

is Russia using bite and hold techniques that the British used in World War I? He wrote this like great, it was a good thing. It got me thinking, it got me looking it up. I was like, what is that? And then some dude commented on there. Like left him a paragraph of hate and then you're like, and he goes, he goes, that's the last time I write anything good. And I was like, did you go to his profile? And he's like, what do you mean? I was like, click his profile. And it's just this like skinny dude who loves bicec... His like, his whole description was like, I love bicycling and a happy wife equals a happy life.

I was like, that dude, you wouldn't give him five seconds of your day. Why are you letting him ruin your day? And he's just like, oh, thanks, Cody. I was like, yeah, always click on the profile. See who's making fun of you. Usually it's a neck beard. It's a guy like who has to like tilt his chin up because he mouth through you and he's just like, no, you suck.

And I'm like, God, don't let that happen. and he's just like, no, you suck. And I'm like, God, don't let that happen. 100% Yeah, anyone that's, yeah, they've never, yeah, they've never got anything going on. They're like getting pegged by them. This is and shit like that. Like, I mean, like, I don't know if you followed it, but like the old Crow tone page is dead. So all the predictions Cody and I called over the last two years, every time they're validated,

we just throw them on that page. They're like, watch the rage comments. And the funniest one is this, this one comment got like flag for hate speech, so it was hidden. Then this troll went into the went into the hidden comments and commented, hmm, co. So then Cody went to his profile and his bio was just, I hate my adults on Travis. Who the fuck is on Instagram now? It used to be hot chicks taking photos of their dinner and stuff. Now it's just the bros are on there and I'm like, all right, I guess we can work with this one. It's rock, man.

Yeah. It's good when you can like they're having a good good troll though like where you can see oh yeah they're one that this is going to wind some people up but you know that they're deliberately doing it like it's not just an actual like a good opinion and you just go oh this is this guy's got everyone on the hook that's funny. It's when they like legitimately got a shit opinion like and it used to wind me up during the war like when we're fighting ISIS or you know I went to Iraq with ISIS and stuff like that and they're you know we create US created ISIS before we left and stuff like that and

we still just like fucking spin me out like just wind me up or oh we're there for the oil again in Afghanistan. I'm like oh yeah or gushing oil that was going all over the place, you know. And yeah, some of those used to eat me alive, like you get on there and you type some fucking, you know, a pretty logical fucking response, but then they just go, no, you're wrong, you shithead and just like, and you're like, fine.

I'm like 30 minutes trying to construct that fucking thing. And they just go, oh, there you are. The best is when they jump straight to the personal attacks, you're like, oh, all right, you're all right, it's over. I guess I won't. Yeah, they go straight to your profile and they go, oh, I see you've got a big truck.

So you must have a little penis or something. And I go, right. I think I'm like, so you've gained 20 pounds. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I mean, I know what we were discussing, but yeah, cool. OK, thanks. That's fair.

That's fair. Yeah. I'm glad you guys thrive off the hate anyway. So now we've, I won't blow their cover, but two of the guys in there, they, not only do we thrive off of it, but like when people start like really getting into it and start annoying people, they've got these third world, they're like third world accounts like Tajiks, they've like posted pictures of themselves, like, like third world or accounts like to Jeeks, they've like posted pictures of themselves like, like taking pictures of like to Jeeks. And it's like to Jeek Nationalist

or something. And they're just like, oh, yeah, pretending to be a pro USSR to Jeek a stand guy. And people are like, what the fuck are you? And they're just like, it is Stalin was the greatest leader of all time. You have no idea. And they're like, what are you doing here? Because he had a, yeah, he had a Twitter, he had a Twitter account that he would just like go under any, any posts he could find and would just throw out just conflicting evidence and just to troll. And the only post that got him flagged and deleted on Twitter was he just said fuck Kyrgyzstan. It was just gone. Yeah, he was just taking a fight with Kyrgyzstan. And I know, like, these would be how, like, I mean, guys, they'll sit there on the, they'll make these great posts or they'll make these great things and then these dudes will just

show up and just be assholes. And then you have like a Tijik, you know, I found one. National, Tijik socialist nationalist show up and start arguing with this guy. And it's just like, he's already sending me death threats in the DMs. Don't be surprised if you get some like weird followers. That's that's probably our fans just like, you know John's gonna post something about sniping and some fat neck beard from the United States is gonna be like Actually, and they're going to have you're going to like go to the gym, come back and there'll be like 86 hate comments

and they're just like fighting about it and we're laughing. Yeah. It really is a coalition of the willing. Yeah. You never mentioned the Kariolis effect. Oh, great. Thanks for that. Oh, God.

Oh, you're right. Let me review my evidence. Sorry, guys. Oh, great. Thanks. Oh, you're right. Let me review my evidence. Sorry, guys. Oh, yeah. I'm actually after getting that little one deleted the other day. I'm actually thinking about putting rainbow flags into my rainbow flags or Palestinian flags into my post to really throw out those meet up met up. Yeah, there you go. You gotta be really relevant. Yeah, relevant. Just throw up like a, your many flag. Yeah.

Be like, stand with the cookies. If we, if it comes, if it comes close, jump it on the flag. Just fly these country flags that they know nothing about. Oh, dude, Matt killed it one day. He about made me bust my fucking liver. He's like, do you know who's really winning in Ukraine and Russia right now? And I was like, what? And he goes, Amazon, think about all the flags they've sold right now.

I was like, you son of a bitch. Well, dude, I used to live in D.C. and it was like a few days after they got invaded and there was this huge like, you know, a million man march in D.C. in support of Ukraine. I'm like, yeah, there's not that many national like Ukrainians living here where they get the traditional garb and flags. I'm like, Amazon's making a killing right now. That's what you need to do is just be red hot onto lightest conflict. And when as soon as I have a match like that set up a little stand with the flag. And just 15 dollars a pop.

Let's go like just you know, you want to show you show your support. Dude, I would die. You know, no, because then that would start a fight because then all my kids who have the, all our kids who have the Tism are going to be in there and they're going to be like, no, bro, $500 on Libya. Let's buy 2000 Libya flags. I feel it coming. Libya is next.

And I'm going to have these entire Libya flags in my house and my wife's going to strangle me if like South Africa kicks off. She's going to be like, you dumb kicks off. She's gonna be like, you dumb bitch. I'm gonna be like, I don't have to get your hands on like the gotta get your hands on the Afghan flags because they don't make those anymore. It's the Taliban flag. So the next thing they have in Afghanistan be like, Whoa, look at this. I just got happened to have 300 of them. Do I do it about all the gain flag somewhere?, I have to get in flag here somewhere. I tell you, that's gonna be cool. It's actually worth money now.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are, I've got a Jarrow flag here. You got that bad boy too. You got one there. Oh yeah. I just got like, we made it anymore. Nice.

Oh man. I love, there was a ton of guys who would like have that in their office. They'd have like an ISIS or a Taliban flag. And I remember like, I went into one of the majors office and he had like three of those bad boys. I was like, sir, you like flags? He's like, no, my wife won't let me keep him in the fucking house. Well, that's not the ISIS people. They were like, like legit merch. They had ISIS rings, ISIS watches, ISIS beanies. Got all these fucking cops who's rolling back through border protection and they got like ISIS beanies,

fucking rings. Yeah, that's pretty sick though. It's honestly pretty sick that they were just like, oh, like they figured out how to use the internet before like mega corporations did. Because it was a wasteland in 2014. They were like, yeah, we're going to set up an Etsy. Yeah, I don't even know what that is yet. Let's go.

Yeah, we're setting up a merch store. Like, how does ISIS have merch? And we don't like. Dude, I've been trying to get my hands on his ball of t-shirt. I don't even know where to get those things. Like I've seen trying to get my hands on a his ballad t-shirt. I don't even know where to get those things like I've seen him floating around Yeah, it comes with a free copy of take his inses, you know memoir you're like Amen, I thank you for Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God. Amen.

Thank you for coming on. It's been a pleasure. I hope to see you stay on Instagram and continue your work. I love you guys. You, Dingo, Carl, it's great to see the Australians, the New Zealand, you guys coming about and hanging around on the internet. You know, it's, yeah, we can't get together for like an Afghan like 20 year reunion, like, yeah, but we can do this.

And it's great to see you guys still hopping about on Instagram and doing your thing. So I appreciate it. Yeah, no, thanks for having me on. And yeah, definitely keep in touch particularly because like we do, I do get over to the States every so often. And I know a lot of the guys that work with the DDA fast teams, they just had a reunion recently.

So, you know, we still keep good contacts over there and stuff like that. But yeah, definitely hopefully try and get over there within the next 12 months. If not, maybe Shot Show might have to be another go if I can, my health can fucking take it. And so you're liver. Have you guys been there before? Um, no, but here's the thing. Um, Matt can't stop getting in fights with people. Um, do you know? Hold up. So do you know who I don't. Do you? What?

Hold up. So do you know who Kagan Dunlap is? Yeah. Okay. So Matt's sitting there and he goes, because Kagan was an E six in the Marine Corps before he became an officer and like Matt sat there one day and under like the old Instagram, he's like, what kind of stuff Sergeant only has a two ribbon rack after like X amount of years in the Marine Corps during G what get a fucking deployment poke. It was.

And so like. If we went to shot show there would legit probably be a fight in the parking lot because. fight in the parking lot because we just got to show up with like, oh, we got to show up with our official merch. It's the first time we drop a merch. We just show up wearing these tank tops. These are deadly in front of the parking lot. Yeah, we'll just bring toxic masculinity back. Yes, we'll get a whole group together then. We'll get positive, you know, the islands and Kiwis and yeah, we'll all roll together.

Oh, don't know. Are we so far? No, please God. Just to have fun. Hey, yeah. We've got a we've got a ton of like, I think like 50 percent of our audience is Australian Kiwi. And then like the other 30 is American and then the other 20

are Canadian Brits and some like French German. It's like all of NATO listens to this podcast. Dude, I have no idea why we took off so well in Australia. It has no business. It just grew legs and ran. What are you doing? It's all on the... Yeah, so... Yeah. Thanks for coming on, John. Really appreciate it. No worries. Thanks for having me. Yeah, you're welcome.

Anytime, man.