Kitbag Conversations - Episode 5: Carla Apodaca's "For Those in Peril"

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

After a short break in syndication, we return with our latest guest, Carla Apodaca (@forthoseinperil). Carla runs a independent "war blog" on Instagram currently covering the Russo-Ukraine War. She also spends her time at a local Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Los Angeles where she helps make individual first aid kids (IFAKs). Once completing an order, these IFAKs are sent to assist the Ukrainian war effort. In this episode, we discuss:  - Social media affects on the conflict - The Western worlds short sightedness  - And coping with comedy 

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Crotone Report, a podcast dedicated to delivering quality information to the community level. This week, I'm joined by those in peril, an Instagram account dedicated to delivering interesting conflict news around the world with her own spin. I'm going to hand it over to her so she can collaborate on that. Hello, everyone. This is Carla. I currently run the page for those in peril.

If you have a tough time spelling that, I'm sure we will advertise the way to spell that later on. Basically, this Instagram was first a personal Instagram account, but when the Ukrainian Russian war started, I converted it to, I guess, what most people call it, a warblog, although I don't see it that way. It's more about spreading awareness of what's going on and the human stories and how we can help the people in Ukraine and those who are coming over here to the United States. Okay, and I've been following you for a few weeks now, and I'm not sure if this has started as like a passion project or what the origins of it was, but if you want to just touch on,

like, yeah, I mean, it started because of the war, but is there an in-state in mind for what you're trying to do, or is it just kind of like, yeah, passive, people need to know this? That's a loaded question, only because I have a loaded answer, but it's definitely a passion of mine, and it's a thing I've had for, I would say maybe decades. Like, I'm 29 years old, but I've had this passion of mine for like 20 years, where I'm always constantly looking at conflicts around the world, always watching the news, always staying updated, and it wasn't just to keep stats or understand data from these conflicts, but I was interested in the human stories and what happens to everyday people in war and after

the war. So I was following the conflict, Ukraine-Russia conflict, since before it started, and some of my friends and I, we kept talking about how we thought it was going to go down sooner rather than later, so when it happened, we were watching it live as it went down, and we saw it until we spent hours, we almost didn't sleep watching it, and I thought, but there's no way that I can go ahead and just look at these images, the suffering, and not do anything about it. So the only thing I could do at the time was just spread awareness through posting, so that's what I did, but then it became so that I started feeling really, I don't know, just depressed because it did not feel like it was enough,

so then I started googling, what can I do, places to volunteer in Los Angeles, which is where I'm from, and I found that there was not much, so I googled my local Ukrainian church, I called them up and they asked me to go volunteer, and that's where it all started, really. And so you said you were previously interested in different conflicts, does this also involve conflicts in the Middle East, or was it American in the beginning, or was it always just international? Well, it was definitely America in the beginning, and that was because of 9-11. I was a kid, but I saw it happen live, and my dad being ex-military from Mexico, he was just always talking about different conflicts worldwide, so it was just

the household topic, really. And anyway, after 9-11, it caught my attention next was the Syrian War, and I was still in high school then, and I followed it closely, and I realized how people just didn't care, and I tried to gain awareness, but back then, social media was not as it is now, so it was not like a thing I could do, especially being in high school, so I let it go for a few years while I was in college and university, and I followed other conflicts, like, well, I consider the cartels in Mexico to be a conflict, right, like a narco-insurgency, and so I've been following that for years, especially because I'm Mexican-American, so yeah, it's just, it's all over the world, really. I try to focus on everything. I want to come back to your top, or your quick mention on

Syria, but let's dive into the aid you've been doing at the Ukrainian Church, so I saw that you were doing, like, or building iFACTS or medical kits that you're sending overseas. Do you know how the logistics of that work? Do you just build them there, have to give it up to a middleman? Can you walk us through that process? Yes, of course. So, okay, so the day I went in, I literally just walked inside, and I see three older men, and they're all just kind of working in this very hot room, and it was all very unorganized, right, and I'm like, what can I do? And then this older, this older gentleman by the name of Leon, tells me, well, we're making iFACTS, and I had no idea what the hell all that was, to be honest, and he's like, well, combat medical kits, you know,

for civilians, and I'm like, okay, well, I'll learn how to do it, and so he taught me, he had a list, right, of the basic things that should be put inside, and, you know, within an hour I was making them, I made like, I don't know, like at least 50 that day. Right, they're easy to make, it's just more like, so we're actually using, you know, those food saver machines to like, suck out the air to like dry food, you know, like pasta. Yes. So we're using that, we're using those bags and the food saver machine, and we put the items in there. So the whole point of that is that we wanted to be as compressed as possible. So then the soldiers that get over there in Ukraine can like, tape that around their leg or somewhere close to them. So when they need it, they like, just have it and

they can open it. But to be honest, yeah, the process was not streamlined at all, because of the fact that there was just not enough volunteers, right? So we started advertising more, and we got more volunteers, and that's when we got a lot, we got like, I don't know, there was a day where there was like 40 of us. So we did kind of like an assembly line sort of situation. So each person would put in certain items into the bag, and then all the way till it was sealed and ready to go. So, yeah, it was just a community effort, really. Okay. And when you, when they're finished, when you get a whole truckload of them ready to go, where do they go? Did you send them right to the post office? Or is there a guy you meet at the airport? Is that just internal to the church

and how they do things? Do you know? So actually, just this Monday, we sent out our first batch of 2000 i-facts. So we were actually waiting on that. It took us like a week to get that together. And some of the, like one of the reasons why we waited a bit was because we didn't have a contact through, that we could send it through, right? Thankfully, we did find one. And it was thanks to the, I believe it was Long Beach firefighters that transported all the i-facts and other donations as well, from all the community members. And that, from my understanding, was going to be sent through a US military plane to Poland. And then it would be distributed properly. Okay, okay. Interesting. I saw on your Instagram, you had a pretty good turnout with the amount

of people that were showing up. And that's really good to see. Right? No, yeah, it was. It took a while and it took a lot of advertising, I guess. So did you really have to advertise? Because we just mentioned social media. And it was, was there a lot of people seeing the war going, wow, I really got to get involved. There was a you almost pulling teeth to say, like, yeah, I mean, this is going on. If you want to help, this is how you do it. Well, personally, it was more like I had to, I felt like I was coercing people, you know, to like go volunteer when I didn't have to. But, you know, some people were like on the fence about it. They, and again, I think this is all because of the whole neo Nazi propaganda, right? Coming out of Russia,

where people, people have asked me, they're like, Oh, I don't want to, you know, potentially be helping a neo Nazi through one of those ifax you're making. And, you know, I'm pretty stunned, to be honest. But I understand, like some people believe what they want to believe. But the whole point is that I, I informed them. And, you know, if they change their mind, they can come and volunteer. And then there's those other people, like, I have a lot of friends who are actually Russians, and they live here in Los Angeles, and they absolutely hate what's going on in their country and what Putin is doing. And because of that, there, there's some of the most hardcore volunteers actually. Interesting, interesting. And so I mean, I know a few Russians,

but it seems like, at least from the ones I've met, that they very much love the fact that they're Russian, but they absolutely do not agree with what Putin is saying, or hearing in general. But do you think that, and this might probably just a loaded question, but for the Russians, you know, or anyone you've interacted with, do you think that at some point they might believe this? Because there's been 20 years of pseudo indoctrination going on in their education system of like, yeah, Ukrainians are drug addicts. Because if we listen to those leaked phone calls that came out of the SBU, where the Western soldiers are calling home, they're like, Mom, I just stole a TV. They're like, good, they don't need it. They're drug addicts. So

Yeah, no, honestly, like, I haven't met any good people anyway, that believe that there might be some confusion. And again, it's understandable, because if you, you know, we're born and raised into indoctrination, like it's only natural, right? I'm sure that happens again, every country in the world. But you know, when confronted with images and videos, any common sense person understands that this is reality, and that's what's going on. And they can't, you know, they can't like condone it, you know, it's just not possible. So I do get people like that. But it's usually more of, they're vulnerable because of their families. They're scared that if they do this or that, it might affect people back home. Okay. And so since we're talking about how the

American homeland or homefront looks at this, because it's very much a social media war, I like yourself was up way into the late hours of the night till about 4am watching the conflict going on and getting out videos and reporting on what's going on in which areas. And so it was eerily similar to the Arab Spring about 10 years ago, when that was directly influenced by Twitter and how the when they were overthrowing their governments, they were sending tweets were like, we're going here, we're organizing here, there's a protest over here. And while on that, that was kinetic on the ground of how the Arabs were revolting, it's a lot different than how the Americans are supporting. So how do you think the Americans are just in the West in general,

really supporting? Yeah, how do you think it changes or how this conflict is different than the others because it's so closely monitored? Well, it changes the game totally. First of all, like I have, I know numerous people who are helping in different ways, right? And they come from different backgrounds. And most of them are not Ukrainian at all. They're just like any anyone really. So I have a friend, right? His name is Marcus. For example, he went all the way from the East Coast to Poland to volunteer at an organization. And this organization is called SOS UA. And he's I believe he he was there around one month. And he basically coordinated volunteers throughout his time there. This is a guy who like, this is the first time he just he

just decided to go, you know, and he couldn't take just sitting at home behind the screen and watching what was going on. He just knew he had to go and do it. And to me, that's really, it really speaks to the selflessness of some volunteers, right? On the other hand, you know, and I'm sure you've seen this throughout social media, there's the kind of people who go because they just want to like you know, seek action. And it's like, yeah, or like, you know, the whole clout chasing situation. That's it sucks, because you know, not only are those people kind of making light of the issue, in a sense, it's, it's their potential liabilities, right? And that just doesn't speak well. And it's something that the Russians could possibly use, right? In the end. And then then there's

those honorable people that I know, also my friends who are they're fighting. And they're doing it for all the right reasons, right? Like to defend Ukrainian democracy. And they do it in the most honorable ways, they just they don't even advertise it or anything, because they know there's just no sense in doing that. So there's a whole, there's a whole mess going on, basically. I think another, not so much issue, but point that's worth noting is there's a lot of independent journalists going over there that are very young in the early 20s, like Daphne or Colin or others that have gone over to like, yeah, you know what, I'm just going to go report, I do this on my side. And why would I sit down and sit behind a computer and talk about it? Or I could just go

there and report on it. And they're the ones that are in Kharkiv and they're in the trenches reporting on what's going on with the Ukrainian soldiers. But then you have other influencers, essentially, Instagram, Cloud Chasers, who they're like, yeah, I went to Poland and it was crazy. Let me live stream this and get 50 lines. And then they'll go into Lviv and say they're in a combat zone where it's like, Lviv is the furthest from out of the major cities. So it's, but that also goes hand in hand with how mainstream media or their journalists handle a lot of situations because the war in Ukraine looks a lot different than the O3 invasion of Iraq, or the invasion of Iraq, where it's like, yeah, it's not CNN sitting behind a, in front of a burnt out building at CNN,

behind a green screen going, yeah, bombs going off and they'll have the little sound machines behind them. But I mean, I saw those when they first rolled out when the war started. So it's definitely a point worth mentioning that, yes, it's cool that people have gone over to help. And on the other hand, it's like, you're just getting in the way if you're going there to Cloud Chase. Exactly. No, and this is something, it's a very interesting phenomenon that I think will probably be studied in the near future. I don't think it's going to change at all. I think it's going to get a lot worse, but I think there's no way it gets better. No, yeah, it's the way that I guess the social media machine works is that it's like, wow,

if you look like you're in danger, or you're taking a picture of a cat in a liberated city, you're going to get credibility as an independent journalist. But it's like, but in the other picture, there's 75 of you in an open area. So it's like, are you really reporting on anything? Or are you just getting in the way? So, exactly. Yeah, no, it's cannibalistic really. And so on the other side of that, the average West Center just sitting down like working at an auto shop or whatever, and they're reporting on what's going on or they want to get involved. What do you think they're doing? How do you think they're contributing to the cause? Because I have a few opinions on my own, but. Well, let's see, I'll give you the nice opinion first. The nice

opinion is that some are truly doing it out of their, you know, their heart and like they have skills that they can contribute. So for example, like some gather really good, oscent, you know, open source intelligence onto what's going on, and it can be helpful, right? Well, on the other hand, there's other people that kind of just disseminate information that is incorrect, and that ultimately harms the cause, even if it's in a minuscule way. But it was it, right? And to add to that, there's also just the kind of people who, I don't know if you saw this on Reddit, I believe someone posted like a video of some Ukrainian soldiers, I think it was the foreign fighters, and because of their indiscretion,

they ended up getting bombed by the Russians. Do you recall that? I do. Yeah, they were in the, was it an auditorium and they took selfies and posted it in the Russian studio. Right. So you have that going on, and I'm like, you know, it's kind of like you, you get a post, you get a video or something, and you don't think about it, have to think about it, you have to think about how that has implications on human beings, which some people don't think about. While that's true, I wanted to mention, or at least touch on or maybe discuss a little bit, how it's always, it's a meme at this point to whenever there's an international tragedy or conflict that someone will go on Facebook and change

their background flag to the flag of France, because I used to just shot up a building or something like that. And then two weeks later, they'll take it down. They're like, well, I guess no one really cares about France anymore. So, and I'm 100% Ukraine is just the latest in the series of hive mentality online where it's like, wow, if you don't look like you hate the Russians, then you're part of the problem and you need to get the fuck out of here. But then in two weeks, you're like, man, honestly, were the Russians that bad? And then it's like a 180 of like, all right, yeah, or nobody really cares. So I get that 100%. I've been experiencing that myself, actually. I don't know if you've heard of that restaurant in Europe called Russian Tea Room.

Okay, so it turns out that once the war started, people started harassing them. And as it turns out, they're actually Ukrainian. So, yeah, so yeah, that just goes to show that people are fucking stupid sometimes, you know, they just think like, oh, you know, that business is Russian, let's go like throw a rock or a breakthrough the window. Okay, those people, you know, you don't know who they are, right? But yeah, it's like, it's blind support when they don't even know what's going on. I've had people who have like Ukrainian flags up in their households. And I asked them, like, oh, so what do you think about what happened yesterday? Or, you know, whatever about, like, I know these people. And they're like, oh, you know, I'm not actually

truly following the news. I just I know they're the good guys. And I'm like, yeah, but that's, you know, the whole point is to be aware and to help in a substantial way. At least, that's my opinion. Oh, 100%. It's like, if you support Ukraine, what's their flag look like? Who is their president? Okay, what side are they on? Right? Or like, why is this even happening? You know, like, they shouldn't know the basics, like just the fundamentals. It's fun to walk into a conversation to just say like Crimea is Russian, and everyone's like, yeah, you're like, what are you talking about? Like, if you're agreeing with me, because you've never heard of it, like, what the hell? Yeah, and they don't want to sound like a dumbass. Like, I get it, but you end up sounding more

like a dumbass if you agree with something that's fake. Or, and you said it earlier that you've been following this conflict since the beginning. So is that 2014? Or is that? Oh, okay, not that beginning. I had I had seen it, but I wasn't all all in. I remember my dad talking a lot about it. But honestly, I was not at the time I was like worrying about, you know, graduating school or whatever. But I'm around. I have way more. I don't know if I have more time, but I'm just more passionate about it. Yeah, that's, I remember when that when it got annexed the first time, or when it got annexed in 2014, and then the war started in Eastern Donbass, or Eastern Ukraine. And it, like I just said, it seemed like within six months, everyone just stopped caring. They're

like, ah, you know, it's, it's Ukraine. Do we really care about Ukraine? And then, boom, we have the war came up with Ukraine. It's like, okay, so I don't know. That's just something I've noticed, where it's, and I get a lot of this from how the US left Afghanistan in August, when everyone was very focused on what was going on. And then within two weeks, they were like, well, I mean, we shouldn't have been there in the first place. So you're like, okay, so. No, yeah, I had my own little experience with that because I was posting a lot about it when it started happening. And I even got into a little organization where we were helping families get out of Afghanistan. But yeah, after a while, it just just fizzled out because people were not like helping. They were not,

you know, we didn't have, we didn't have the money that we needed anyway. So yeah, that was within, yeah, like around two weeks, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's, if that's not right now, but something we're studying and writing a collegiate paper on, it's like, yeah, what is the duration of group thing? How long does this work? It seems to be two weeks so far. But I'm surprised about this one because it's, yeah, it's almost going to be 50 days soon. And the support, at least on my page has been quite surprising. Every day I get dozens of followers and, you know, I get messages from people saying that they, you know, that they care and that they're thankful that I'm posting these things and that I'm very brave for doing so. And I think, wait, how the hell am I

brave? Like, I'm not doing anything. I'm literally just posting what I see, right? Brave people are the ones who are there in the ground, like the Ukrainian citizens and they're, you know, the soldiers and whatnot. It just goes to show, you know, some people, I understand some people are sensitive to the images and, you know, whereas I might not be right, or whereas you might not be because we're used to these, these things. So I think that's part of the reason why people kind of get away after a two week time period because they just don't want to see reality. What do you think? Oh, that, that's 100%. It's, it's one thing to say, like, yeah, it's really messed up what's going on in Ukraine. And then it's another to see the pictures and to see the

bombings and to see the centers getting targeted. And it's another to go. I don't want to see that. I'll just stop caring. I'll figure it out. It's almost reminiscent of the 90s when Yugoslavia broke up. How proliferated the footage and the coverage of that war was and everyone went, yeah, it's really fucked up that there's a land war in Europe. There's ethnic cleansing going on. But you know what? I'm just not going to look at that. And so there's no wars. There's no movies about it. And it was only 30 years ago, 25 years ago, or even the Iraq war and the Afghan war. It's like, there's, there is movies and there is some videos coming out of it, but it's mostly from the veteran community or those who were there. It's not the war porn theorists are like,

yeah, I really want to see this. It's weird. No, yeah. And I definitely get that. Like I, and that's one of the problems I see most of the people who are sometimes attracted to these things or, you know, like adrenaline junkies or like, yeah, like they literally see gore in a pornographic sort of sense. And that kind of perverts what we do sometimes, you know, because we might get a bad rap because of those people. But yeah, like I, like, what do you think about that? Like, what is something that we can do to kind of get that image off, you know, that stigma? It's a special situation, because especially in the West, we haven't experienced anything like this since World War Two. And they like, we say World War Two, but there was this going on in the 90s,

and everyone just kind of went hush hush. That's a Balkans problem, not ours. So it's it's difficult to say, because if you talk to someone from the Middle East who've been living through this for 20 years, they have a very strong opinion about it. But if you talk to an American who hasn't, they've just seen it on TV, they'll say like, do we really need to see this on TV? And so it really depends on who you ask. That's true. No, I agree. And actually, to add on to that, there's like the perfect example, like, for example, I'm in Los Angeles, right? There's Mexico right down south, right? And the things that go on there on the daily, you know, like horrible, horrible things like beheadings, like, you know, the worst gore films come out of

Mexico. And yeah, like Americans don't care, even though it could literally spill over at any moment. So that just goes to show that, yeah, people just shut off reality because it doesn't affect them. And then when it does with comedy, because if you bring up Mexico right now, and they have a cartel issue, you can watch anything, any kind of show, a cartoon, anything. And they're like, I went to Mexico, and they're like, whoa, don't get your head cut off. And it's like, well, yeah, it just happens. But it's like a social, almost like a part of the zeitgeist, where it's like, yeah, there's violence in Mexico, don't go there. Right. Right. It's just like accepted. But, you know, it's such a weird, yeah, it's a really weird thing if you think about it deeply.

Which is that reminds me, because I'm not very much a fan of mainstream media. I remember CNN, when the war first started, there was the footage of the Chechens coming in. And there was also reports of the Syrians being called in from Raqqa, and they were going to drop in from Mariupol and help clean houses. Right. So CNN, I want to say is CNN, I could be wrong. But one of the news anchors went it's one thing to have ethnic cleansing in Syria, but it's another to see that in Europe. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about? Yeah, I remember that. It's like, yeah, Syria's been at war for 10 years, get over it. But Europe, absolutely not. So then on one hand, you're like, okay, so are you indirectly supporting pro long conflict in

the Middle East? Because you're indifferent? Yeah, that's literally, I mean, it was a Freudian slip, I guess. That's fun. But it's true, though, it's, I mean, I don't know, I was a, did you watch, I don't know if you're a fan of Matt Gaetz, I'm definitely not, but I watched his video where he calls out the US government is like, why do you need a $1.2 trillion budget if you were wrong for the last 20 years? Yeah, I mean, I'm an answer. And I was like, yeah, it's a good point. Like, are you prolonging war because it makes money? Because I know the answer gets, but it's like Raytheon makes money. So it's like, of course, mainstream media, I mean, a cat in a tree is not sexy, but a war is. So it's like, yeah, I mean, if we could just

keep these little destabilized areas, destabilize and proliferate and talk about that, just enough to keep people reminded of what's going on, that'll be okay, but Europe's safe, America's safe, we can't touch that. So, no, yeah, that's an important point. And yeah, that's also something that is not really looked into. People just accept things for what they are. Again, it's obviously the general population does not have like big time critical thinking skills when it comes to like geopolitical matters. But, you know, I, again, that's one of the things I try to do through my Instagram page. It's not just like, oh, you know, I'm posting the news because that's what I do. But it's because like, I think it's important that everyone be aware even just a bit, because it really does

just affect society as a whole, like just because something happens in Ukraine doesn't mean it doesn't affect us over here, especially with, you know, the real fear that this could still lead to World War Three. I did see a lot of those World War Three posts thrown around, but they were immediately just memes. It's like, oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. It's like everyone's just coping with comedy. And it's like, exactly. I was about to say the big cope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Had a lot of people send me messages when it started, they were like, Carla, am I going to get drafted? And I'm like, I don't fucking know. But I will let you know if I find out. But the answer is no for now. What the hell? I just thought it was hilarious that they were worried about if they

were going to get drafted when there was like literal innocent civilians being killed over there. Yeah. It's just, I don't know, stuff I've seen that I'm like, this is worth mentioning because I don't think anyone really understands what's going on. And I know they don't. So no, yeah, you mentioned it before we even got to starting this recording going that people have shown up that I've seen under upside down Ukrainian flags being waved around my local area. And you're like, yeah, people are showing up upside down flags with texts on them and all the things are like, what the hell? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, they understand that they're trying to help, but it's like, dude, at least look up the basic facts, you know, if you're going to help,

help right, you know? And that's, that's also something I try to remind the people that, you know, look at my stuff or listen to my stuff. It's just, it's not just about virtue, like virtue signaling, it's about actually helping in ways that matter. I know maybe like making an IFAC is not the biggest way to help, but it might make a difference to someone in Ukraine. Okay. So what do you think on your current level? What's the best way that the average Westerner can help? Is it going to Ukraine right now and just pulling a trigger? Or is it that seems to be the answer? But yeah, no, definitely. Yeah. Well, I guess it is the answer. If you're well trained, have a stable mind, right, and are not worried about coming back.

If you're going to go actually fight for Ukraine, it has to be for the right reasons. And you have to just make sure you're a sensible person that is not going to be a liability and understand that you're going to probably be there for a long time. You don't want to be like that British dude who like, you know, Lord Miles. Right. Yeah, that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Choice ideas on that guy. Thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Just say no. So the best way to help as a common person as I am doing, you know, it's just, yeah, go to your local Ukrainian community center, church or any sort of place like that and help out there, you know, help, you can help out by sorting donations. It doesn't even have to be like you

have to make combat. I'm the ifax, right? Just sorting donations, just making boxes, like the most simple things. And also, like, if you don't even want to volunteer, the least you can do is just stay informed and make sure you're not falling into some little Psyop or, you know, just disseminating incorrect information. What do you think about people going to liquor stores, buying Russian vodka and pouring it out saying, oh, yeah, down with Russia. I think that's extremely stupid. And I think you knew I was going to say that. Yeah, we already bought it. Yeah, new shit. Like what are you going to do? Like at least give it a homeless guy. I don't know. I shipped that with incredibly high tax rate and you still bought it. So that is, yeah, no,

it is incredible. And that's what I'm saying. People got to think before they do things. Like, the early 2000s with the Freedom Fries movement in France was pretty opposed to going to the support the US and Afghanistan. Americans are like, yeah, let's just buy Russian vodka and Russian wine and pour it down the drain. You're like, okay, like, what is that solving? Nothing. And I'm sure more of those stupid things will come up too. I personally think they're gonna get a lot worse. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I'm telling you, like boycotting Russian businesses, all that. And it's funny because that in itself might radicalize Russian people, you know, if they didn't. I mentioned it. What? Oh, sorry to interrupt, but I forgot. It was one of the previous episodes,

but we were talking about cancelling Russia. It was with Daphne. We were talking about cancelling Russia. We're like, we've cut off Russia from YouTube, Twitter, Telegram, everything. They've been cut off. And it's like, they're only getting one narrative now. And if the only question is by the Kremlin saying, yeah, see, we keep telling you them versus us, and they think we're the bad guy, they want us to go away. It's like, they're just gonna believe it. So if they're getting there, misidentified as Ukrainian in New York, just for owning a restaurant, they're getting attacked, they're like, you know what, maybe the Russians are right. Like, right. That's exactly how it goes. I mean, that's, I was on, so in my master's degree program, we were

doing, we had to write an essay on how to recruit, right? Like if, as if we were recruiting for ISIS or al-Qaeda, and obviously you had to read the manual. Oh, okay. So we, for one of my assignments in school for my master's degree, we were writing about how to recruit for ISIS or al-Qaeda, right? So as if they were one of the recruiters, and I had to study the manual, right? And in the manual, they talk about how they obviously convince people, isolate them, they isolate them to make them, you know, feel like they have no one else except them, right? And when they feel that way, when they feel like, you know, discriminated by the West or whatever, they're more susceptible to like being radicalized, right? And that's exactly what Russia is going to capitalize on when, you know,

ignorant people in the West over here are discriminating Russians. Well, I mean, like, let's look at Libya, for example, that place has been at war for 10 years, and then they had a horrific dictatorship before that. You want to know what ISIS did? They went into villages after they were attacked with pamphlets and said, Hey, man, this is a pretty good idea. I think you should join. And they were like, Yeah, this ends the conflict. Let's do it. Yeah. That's how it goes. Marketing, recruiting. Yeah, it's a sigh up. Life is a sigh up. Shame will shout out to that page. Yeah, exactly. I was about to say that. Yeah, one of the best pages. And honestly, I've seen a lot of sigh up pages come up in the last few weeks. And I haven't seen a bad one. They're very good.

Right now, we're all learning here. That's for sure. So right now, social media wise, do you think that because I know before we started this recording that you got your first strike on Instagram that said you might get deleted? Yeah, social media is hindering the war in any way, because on one hand, it's like, you can get blocked for reporting on Ukrainian positions, but you can openly show where the Russians are. Like, is that a good thing? Or because I can go both ways, because I know in Afghan, when that withdrawal went on, you couldn't say anything. So it seems like social media is definitely geared at targeting a certain area. One, because they know that group thinks going to stay on their servers and eat up all the

material. But on the other, it's, Okay, well, there's a conflict in Israel, and nobody cares. So it's like, are you going to go after Israel next? Like, where's the line? Yeah, it feels like there is no line. It's very confusing. That's for sure. That's a hard question, because honestly, I'm confused myself. And as you know, I'm new to this, like before, yeah, before this conflict started, literally, like, what, 40 something days ago, I was not a big time user of Instagram. So I had no experience, like, I would see you guys have to deal with that where you were, you know, you'd get like a message that you were getting your account taken away and whatnot. And I always figured like, why does that happen? But now I understand. At least for me,

my posts are being reported as being like, inciting violence, or, you know, stuff like that. And they're not because I have Instagram review it, and they come back and they repost what I posted because it obviously is not inciting violence. But the problem is, as you know, like so many, I don't know, like Russian affiliates, Russian bots or whatever. And it's just very the waters are muddied is all I can really say, like, I can't even elaborate without getting confused right now. I don't know if you saw this, but there was the column bot farms or troll farms? Yeah, there's been a bunch busted in Russia on Eastern Ukraine where it's like, yeah, they were one guy was making 150 bots, and they were just flooding. All right, that was like,

let's just ban everything for endangerment to children. And regardless of what the post is, that's getting taken down. So it's, I know if you got busted, but I don't know if you have seen anything like that. I know it's kind of a hush hush topic, because bots are real. And we can go way into the weeds and how they're used on Twitter. But yeah, I don't know too much about it, at least on Instagram. But I had seen some pictures being posted of like actual from wasn't from Russia, I'm not sure. But you've probably seen that picture where there's like three people in a room, and they're all like just texting on their phone. Yeah, that's the one. Okay, so it just makes me, I don't know, it's just creepy, you know, there's someone across the world right now,

like targeting our pages, you know, that's no different than a Reddit admin who owns 100 of the top 50 or 500 Reddit. It's like, yeah, I'll just cancel people. Just boom done. I'll just delete it. Right. Except this is, well, I don't know, that could be politically motivated too. But I mean, that is, I mean, it's warfare in a sense. And I was jokingly telling my friend the other day, I'm like, dude, I'm never going to be able to go to Russia, even in like 50 years, I'm sure we're all on some like shit list over there, which is fine by me. But I just, I don't know, I just find it funny. I'm honored. What can I say? I really did want to go to

St. Petersburg, I will be honest. You too. You too. Well, too bad. Next life. What do you think about China and India, just stepping back and saying you figure it out, because it seemed like the Chinese definitely were very much supportive of Russian can do whatever it wants. And I support it and Russia say, can you help? And they said, no. What do you think about that? Are you super dialed into how the Chinese and the Russians are intertwined politically and militarily? No, not as much as you guys are, to be honest, but I do feel at the end of the day, I do feel that the Chinese are the bigger threat. And I feel like right now, the reason why they're not openly helping Russia is because

they have kind of like a big brother responsibility towards Russia. And they see Russia as their little shitty brother that needs to shut up, you know, they're becoming a liability, you know, and I don't think China wants to help because it's just, I think they're playing the long game, you know, and now is not the time for China to act in any way that would be adverse to their plans. I can see that, but I think it goes a little deeper, where the Russians main export is wheat and oil, like that's all they kick out. The Chinese are so involved in everyone's economy that if China decided to get cut off from the rest of the world and vice versa, everyone's going to feel it, everyone's going to go down, then you have 1.3 billion people

pissed off, that's not good to have on your hands. Yeah, no, they don't want to be responsible for that. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying, like they don't, Russia's being a liability in that sense, and they don't want their name on that, you know. I did think it was a bit interesting that for the last, since we were both kids that the Russians have been painted as the bad guys, but I always thought like, in what world are 175 million people more intimidating and threatening than 1.3 billion who are openly colonizing Africa? Like, let's take a look at this one. Yeah, I'm not saying the Russians are good, but it's like, I think in the big picture, like the Russians are spent, they're done, they don't have kids, so they'll just be gone. Oh yeah, I agree, I agree with you,

and yeah, that's one of the things that not many people are aware of. Yeah, like China, God, where can I even begin? Like for example, their connection with Mexican cartels and how much fentanyl is being brought into America, right, that is killing countless of, you know, military aged people in our country every day, you know, and I see it because I'm in LA and you can see the people literally just squirming in the ground, you know, like some just high out of their mind, and it just kind of makes you think of the reach that China has, like they've bought territories, land, property, and I don't know, maybe every continent on this earth, almost? Oh, 100%, but the way, I don't know if you're familiar with the Belt and Road Initiative,

but are you? No, I don't think so, can you inform me? Essentially what it is, is the Chinese lend, or they just lease money out to these poorer countries or developing countries, like Sri Lanka, Pakistan, New Bangladesh, the Horn of Africa, all those ones that are usually forgotten about in the western mines are like, yeah, we'll help you out, well, we'll finance your bridges and your roads, then they buy the land in the Horn of Africa where like cell phone chips are made, and they're like, oh, well, you know, it had 100% interest rate and you can't ever pay me back, so I guess you just have to give me land rights and drilling rights, and so indirectly enslaving large portions of Africa and the Indian Ocean and really offsetting that

counterbalance Indian-Chinese dominance way of life where it's like the Chinese are like, oh, we don't need to win today, we can win in 200 years. Exactly, exactly. No, yeah, I had heard of this, yeah. It's pretty threatening, if you think about it, but a lot of these African nations are, excuse me, quickly realizing that, oh, Pakistan can't think by itself ever again, because they leased all their military bases to the Chinese, so at least the naval ones on the coast, so it's stuff like that where it's like, yeah, I understand Wagner sent 300 guys to Mali after the French messed it up for 10 years. Okay, cool, the Chinese bought countries, so let's think big picture here. Right, yeah, so it does not compare, yeah, it does not compare at all, and yeah, no,

I've been learning about that a lot recently, and it's very daunting to say the least, because it just, you don't know what will happen in the future, it's very uncertain. What do you think is the future for this quasi-independent journalism side of social media? Hmm, that's a hard one. You think they're going to unionize, or you think we're just going to keep on keeping on? Again, hard one. I don't know, there's just so many of us in a sense that we could go either way, really, but I don't think it's going to get better. We're still going to get blocked, we're still going to get our accounts taken away. What we post about is just not conducive to whatever the mainstream wants, the general population to see or understand, so we either

do our own thing. I don't know how successful that would be, I don't know how big the outreach would be if we don't have what we currently have. I mean, Atlas News is doing pretty good. Well, you can or can is doing pretty well too. No, yeah, no, yeah, for sure, but they've been doing it for quite long, wouldn't you say? Yeah, about 10 years. Yeah, so at least for someone like me, who literally started one month ago, I don't know, I mean, they know like the tricks of the game. So if you're new in this territory, that's where the problem lies, because it's like, are you in too late or, you know, are you just going to adapt and be flexible to what happens, which is what I plan to do anyway. I'm sure you saw that Elon Musk is now the largest shareholder

Twitter. Yeah, yeah, I think you can do anything because he would immediately first thing, do you guys want an edit button? Oh, I wouldn't, you know, I would hope he would change something, but who knows, he's an unpredictable one, but I would think he'd be on our side anyway. 100%. It's even though he's a shit poster and he's kind of got a lot of his own things going on. I think he does have the sway to go into at least Twitter, because I know Intel Crab is a really cool page. I really don't want to lose that over some bullshit, but. Well, we'll see. But that pretty much touches every topic I had out one, unless you have something you want to bring up or plug or go into a rabbit hole over. Let's see. Well, yeah, I mean, I obviously I should

plug my, where I'm volunteering. So again, if I didn't mention it before, so I'm currently volunteering at a Ukrainian church. It's an Orthodox church, excuse my accent. And it's in Silver Lake, which is in Los Angeles, California. And we will be continuing to make those ifax. So one of the things we always run out of is antibiotics. And let's see, the clotting powder, anything that clots really. So we're always running out of that. So if we can get any of that coming in, if anyone can reach out to me and provide some of that or connections to companies that might provide that, that'd be great. Again, we would want more volunteers, ideally, because we do work every day. It's not just like a weekend thing. So there's times where we don't

have enough volunteers. It's just like four of us. And there's a insurmountable amount of donations that we can't get through, which is why it took us quite a bit to like come up with the 2000 ifax. So if we can get help, that'd be great. Okay. And actually, I want to ask you, since you go to the Ukrainian church, do they talk about the relationship between the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in relation to the Russian or the Orthodox Church at large? I'm not going to lie to you, but we kind of don't talk much. We're all just working. Yeah. No, sometimes we talk. But so example, like our leader, Leon, sometimes he'll, he'll be singing Ukrainian songs and he'll translate them to English for us to understand those kind of

things. And when we're not working, we're like eating pizza or something like that. And when we're not doing that, sometimes we have conversations with the people who come donate. For example, the other day, there was this older, this elderly woman and her daughter, and she barely spoke English, but she was trying to teach me Ukrainian. And she was almost crying, telling me how she hopes that her local church back in Ukraine doesn't get damaged by the missiles. And I don't know, that, that really touched me. So it's, it's kind of those stories, you know, that, that really drive the people who are volunteering there, you know, those are the things we talk about for the most part.

I asked that because I've been doing a little research into, I've heard it called almost like a quasi spiritual war over in Ukraine and how when the, the Russians came into Donbass the first time in 2014, 15 time frame, they immediately started targeting like the Protestant churches. They're like, no, this is Orthodox, you got to go. And then after that, they started moving on to the Ukrainian and that don't quote me on an exact day, but within the last five years, the Ukrainian church said, all right, we're done. We do not agree with what's going on in the East. We got to cut ourselves off. And the Russian church, even today, refuses to openly condemn the actions going on in Ukraine. And I think I figured it out why is because

little, little like rabbit hole history lesson that once the great schism happened, and there was the Eastern, the Western church and medieval ages, and that the Byzantines were like the true successors of the Roman Empire. And then after the fall of Constantinople, a lot of the bishops went to Kiev, who then went to Moscow and said, Moscow is the new leader of the free world, Moscow is the new Roman Empire. So in that way of looking at things, they see themselves as, yeah, we're justified because we're just doing what we're supposed to do. We are the true leader of the free world. So, which is, I think just, it's definitely a religious, there's definitely some religious overtones and some of it because, you know, you see

Putin having a priest bless the parliament before he even says anything. And just to have a large organization like the Eastern church, not condemn the actions, but the Catholic church will, I think it's just something interesting to look at the two different mindsets of how both groups are approaching the situation, just nothing kinetic, just indirect. Yeah, see that's something I had not really looked into, but now that you mentioned it's very interesting. But yeah, see that's something I will look into and I'll start a conversation at the church, see what they think. Yeah, if you definitely couldn't, you could fill me in because I'm really interested here. There's only a Russian one around here, so I'm just going to ask them some

questions, but a little contentious there. But yeah, no, I will definitely look into that. Okay, well, if you don't have anything on your end, I think that wraps it up. Yeah, no, I think I'm good. Yeah, thank you so much. Okay, too easy. All right, have a good night. You too.