Kitbag Conversations - Kitbag Conversations Episode 18: Run Through The Jungle

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

In this episode, we discuss the Malaysian Emergency (UK Vietnam) and the Vietnam War. For those that don't know there was another war from 1948-1960 in which the British fought communists in Malaysia, and they won. Meanwhile right next door the French and Americans lost back to back in Vietnam.

Music A wealth and taste Been around for a long year So many man so it's erased I was round wind It was Christ but it's moment of down and pain Made up to the part Bored to his hands and serious fate Please submit to hope we kiss my name Because what you're using is just a nature of my pain

Nature of my pain I'll start around the same village, but When I saw it was a time, or a change I killed his all and his ministers And the sales are screaming me I'm on a time here here the generals reign When the victory rates and the race to strike Please raise your hope against my name Come from the hearts of the new victors of major banking Come on, come on, come on I'm so in you, it's just a major of my game

Come on, come on, come on What is it? It's learning to eat soup with a knife and it it's a comparison like side-for-side analysis of the US foreign Vietnam and the British War in Malaysia. And it's written by, I want to say it was like an army colonel. It was looking in the heat of the war on terror. You want to look at these counter-certaincies from the Cold War period. He's like, America's not really good at this. He's like, well, who's usually pretty good?

It's like the Brits like they they're pretty good So anyways, the book is endorsed by Newt Gingrich So there's there's a couple books out there that are endorsed by Newt Gingrich and before we even started recording you guys If he's a soldier, no, he's not, but he is an avid reader like I've I've read a lot of books like the other, it's like 10 seconds after or something, it's about like EM, EMTs, EMPs going off. And it was endorsed by Newt Gingrich

back when he was like speaker of the house. I was like, what the fuck is Newt Gingrich reads a shit ton of books. And for those that don't know, he used to be a Republican party leader. But. I didn't run for president against Obama and like lost to Mitt Romney. LOL. Yeah.

Yeah. He was a speaker in the 90s. Yeah. He was the Nancy Pelosi of the Republican party. He was Bill Clinton's thumb in the asshole. Like, and he was during the Obama administration. He was in there as well, running around, thoughts on problems in the 2012 presidential run.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, so it doesn't surprise me, but it's weird to see him like in so many books, right? Like so many, because if you're, these are a lot of recommended books, so learning to eat soup with a knife. Yeah, and so I was, I was looking up and like watching YouTube tutorials on Malaysia and of course Vietnam.

It's, it's night and day. It's it's like day. It's so I mean before we go any further So learning to eat soup of the knife is a term coined by T. Lawrence Lawrence of Arabia Where he fought an asymmetric war against the Turks and by the you know the backing of the British government and he was talking about How insurgents think and he was like they keep adapting He's like they will eat soup with a knife. He's like they they continuously change when TTPs from say like the opposing force they're fighting like remains the same. And if you're looking at night and day, the British in Malaysia try the shock and all like path and it didn't work. And they're like we got to shake this up where the Americans double down on shock and all and I don't know it's interesting it's like it's night and day man it's one of those like no one really talks about

I want to say it was like the largest success and counter-communist insurgencies are in the Cold War like a whole country sway it wasn't split in half oh yeah dude I don't even There's so much to like talk about with with just that because like the first thing that like if you if you've never had any interaction with the British military and AFV recognition says it's all the time it's not a sergeant. It's different. It's a, it's quality versus quantity. And they have strong heritage. I know we've shit on them in the past. But like if you've ever like, there's a really great BBC special, like a four part series about like the different regiments and how like, I think we've had a, if he talk about it, how like, paras stay paras, like they stay loyal to the regimen. Like the skommage, Dragoon, stay Dragoons, or whatever.

Like, and so there's a quality in that that you just don't find in the American army as much as we would love in like the Marine Corps. Well, I mean, like, yeah. Well, I mean, like, we try. So it's like if you're in the army, you're like, I'm in the 82nd fuck you. Like one of those things where you're like, there's pretty rude enough where it's like, if you're a Marine, you, like, we try. So it's like, if you're in the army, you're like, I'm in the 82nd fuck you. Like one of those things.

Where you're like, it's pretty rude to enough, where it's like, if you're a marine, you're like, fuck the army. Oh, we can do anything. But you're like, it's pretty lukewarm, because there's not like this rich history behind like, a regiment that was created to fight Napoleon. Like it's...

I was talking about life about that. And I find it very weird to like because like we've we got the kit bag in Crotone Instagram. It's really weird to see British military pages versus like American British pages because like in America if you're not soft you ain't shit like it doesn't matter but like to see it at the Anzac Day or the British like where their medals and like a nice three-piece suit and like be happy about the regiment they were in, like, you know, the World Tank Regiment

or the green jackets or whatever, like they take a great amount of pride and they show a great amount of respect for each other. And I think it's absolutely wild that like if you or I were to do the exact same thing, like take pride in like the regiments we were a part of and things we did we would get fucking blasted like oh you weren't regimen oh you weren't fucking oh you were dealt to gang bruh and it's like there's like there's there's an awkward like a model like pessimism in the US where

if we go back to like what grade school, you're like, I think I failed that test and everyone's like, fuck yeah, I did. You failed the test like in school. But like in England, they're like, no, they're like, that's bad. You shouldn't fail a test. And then even if in the military, so say like even in the Marine Corps, where you're like, well, I'm with, I'm a six marine regiment. I'm in first battalion one three or one six.

I'm in first battalion six Marines. And they're like, yeah, you guys suck. No, you're not, you're not as awful as us. Like we have three DUIs month, like one of those things. And you're like, the British focus on things that matter where the Americans focus on like the generosity for like lack of a better term. Mm-hmm.

That's a good, that's a really good point. And it's, it reflects when you when you, I know we did, back to back Iraq, when you look at that, it's weird, but when you have Malaysia versus Vietnam, you have an insurgency war. It's weird to see somebody who actually, in the same fucking time period, not only did it better than us,

but one, and it it's like Jesus. Like what were we? We it was actually like going on well Vietnam was going on and it how did you not look? Yeah, there's it's shit. It's a lot of people like yeah, it's in the same neighborhood. There's a lot of like I mean what got me interested in this whole thing years ago was I was like, why was an England in Vietnam? I mean, they were in Korea. Why weren't they in Vietnam? And then I would find out I was like, oh, oh, they had their own war going on.

But like the Australians were like being sent to Boas. It was like, what, first Royal Australian regiment going here, second going here, rotation with the third and the Australians were Money like they they knew what to do, but the British. I mean, oh, I guess we could just start so Decolonization we took over the French when they lost at Dan Vienn food We took over like what 19 60 1965 something like that. It's Eisenhower was playing with it He was playing with it. He was playing with it. Yeah, he was sending advisors in Kennedy was guy who was like, I really don't want to commit the entire military.

However, we need to put people there. So sort of pushing guys into like Vietnam and the domino theory. That's where it comes from. However, the British decolonization, America had no social attachment to Vietnam, which makes it like for one person would say, well, you don't know them, it's easier to kill them. Yeah. One thing, you're like, that makes sense.

But for the British, they were a colony in Malaysia, and there were a communist coming from China. And they were like, so we're fighting the same war. The communist Chinese were coming down into Vietnam. The Communist Chinese were coming into Malaysia. And the British tried a shock and all path in the 40s. Because I think it's sort of like what, 1946, like right after World War II, yeah, 48,

right after World War II. And the British tried the shock and all path, but the insurgents adapted and started killing officers. And they were like, what we need to do is stop sending so many soldiers and focus more on the coin in the civil affairs angle where the Americans were like, we just need to blow shit up. And it's night and day. And I want to say, I think it's in the book that the US came to England

and they were like, hey, why aren't that the US came to England and they're like, hey, why aren't you sending guys to Vietnam? And they're like, we kind of have our own more going on and it's the same thing. And the US was almost upset. They're like, can you please send soldiers? They're like, no, what we can do is send advisors. So the advisors would go from Malaysia to Vietnam and say, hey, look dude, you just can't blow up a village and hope it's good. Yeah, they're like, like, is that Russian tactic of, if 16 insurgents take a movie theater with a hundred hostages and I blow up the movie theater, I have 16 less insurgents. That was like the

American approach in the British, we're like, yeah, it doesn't work dude, like don't do that. approach and the British were like, yeah, it doesn't work, dude. Don't do that. They're like, don't do that. And so I'm pretty, like, I don't know. I would, I haven't run this book in like a year and a half or so, but the, uh, the British were like, here's how you win. Yeah.

Like, here's how you win it. And it's called draining the swamp. And it's that it's a political charm thrown around a lot, but the, the British are very good at that. Like they, they won in Malaysia and they want in Northern Ireland. It's like we can go into it. Oh yeah, no, this is, this is a really good. I mean, like I, I don't know how to like, because we kind of hit on it like the quality of British soldiers and like they're like who they are and know it just, all of it is

just beautiful to see in contrast to the American soldier or the American Marine and it's not the more uh yeah we're two different tools the the army is something much bigger it's a club whereas the Marines used to be a surgical knife they used to go in and destroy gorilla forces all the time if you read the book the Savage Wars and porza piece yeah Piece? Yeah, there it is. Yeah, it's Max boot basically describes how the Marine Corps was the epitome of Canada, Gorilla. And it was literally the same thing the Brits did in Malaysia.

They pushed the Gorillas further and further into the swamps. They had small unit tactics, company and below were in charge. Like it wasn't a kernel in charge of company operations like Afghanistan where we had these huge movements of soldiers being micromanaged by blue force trackers and bullshit. Officers did shit and that's kind of one of the things that the British Army does well is make damn fine officers that are fit for that. It shows in Malaysia And I think there's a little bit of a hangover from World War II and Korea in Vietnam, because the Marine Corps didn't go back to its roots after either of those two.

It just became like the brother of the army. And if I don't know if I'm speaking the truth, but from my knowledge of the books that I have read on Vietnam and from the historical videos and like the talks. And my uncle who served in Vietnam on a J-sox sniper team with a Marine recon guy, I feel safe to say the army in the Marines were the same fucking thing in Vietnam. And so yeah, I mean like so who was it was seventh Marines? Was it one seven the first Marines sent to Vietnam is like 1963 1965 and like that They were sent in and they were like we're gonna go fight the enemy like fuck down And they got on the beach and all the kids were wearing like Coca-Cola t-shirts. Yeah. And Americans were like, what the fuck is this? They're like, huh? So the Americans

like, I mean, we talk about all that, but the Americans immediately were, they're like, it's not the enemy. It's like, what? And they got like passive. We're the English showed up. And they were like, yeah, we know what they're doing. They're trying to like, this is like more bitch. Yeah, they're trying to just deceive us. Yeah, it's, and it's, it's actually fucking crazy when you look at it because the Malaysian and before somebody goes off on a tangent about like,

well, they had it, no, they had it way harder in Malaysia because from what I was reading, the Malaysian holdovers who wanted to turn Malaysia into a communist country fought the Japanese. Like they had fought. They were the real deal. They weren't they didn't have to really get training from anybody like the Vietnamese did like Ho Chi Men had to beg the Russians and the Chinese to come down and train them. Like they knew what they were doing day one and they were savage.

I mean, they ambushed a politician on a road and just killed him in broad daylight, like in a complex ambush. And I mean, it's wild. And I think, like I was saying, like it's kind of like the British are able to do this with like a rucksack and an F.A.L. And like a couple of N. Fields where as like the American army brought tanks, we brought planes, we brought napalm, we bought 113s, we brought the kitchen sink with us. So looking at their approach to Malaysia, so they showed up shock and awe, just blow everything up, and it made more insurgents.

And the brits were like, fuck, that's not fixing anything. You know what, you know what, kill some insurgents? Food. They went to like, they went to the local reservoirs and they poisoned it. And they went to the local grain fields and they burned it all out of the ground. They were like, cool. Now that British army has the food, give me one insertion, do you get a bag of rice, give me three insertions, you get two bags of rice and some meat, give me five and you

get British citizenship. And they were like, the Malaysians started handing people over. Well, this is named Chen Peng. Yeah. It was a leader of the Chen Peng. Yeah, he was a leader. And he was like, my fucking soldiers are turning over. Like, he got like, paste.

Yeah. And we go into like Thailand to like trying to get advice in this is and come back in. And the English, they were like, no. They're like, no. We know how to stop. And it's almost like, it's a barbaric way to approach like an insurgency. They're like, if five civilians die, but 15 communists get killed, I think we win. But in America,

Vietnam, they're like, if I blow up a village with five suspected insurgents and 25 people get killed, I think we're doing good. You're like it's the different approach and it's training the swamp like the British did it in South Africa. They did it in Ireland. They did it in where else They've done it all over. They tried doing it in the US like they have a history of doing it They're talking about the British Empire is literally just counter-Gurl Warfare because everybody's trying to break away and it's just like You were talking about with like the food stuff like there was like three different commanders I think in Malaysia and they all did separate things until like the last one figured it out like

But there was that part exactly like you said they started putting one figured it out. But there was that part exactly like you said they started putting the belacians in camps. They started separating them. They started controlling the populace. They started later on they would win hearts and minds. But the biggest thing was that they also promised the belacians independence. They were like, look once this communist shit is done, you could do whatever you want. I don't care. But this communist shit, it's not staying. Like you're gonna become a trading partner. We're gonna work together and you're gonna help Britain after this. Like, we're working. If they also promise like a security detachment to Malaysia, they're like, we will protect you. Yeah. And it's, it's what I mean, the we can talk about here's

another episode, the French and Vietnam and Algeria, where they fucked both those up. Yeah. Just awful. I mean, I, I don't know if you could look at Vietnam without looking at French. And it like, yeah, yeah, I mean, so, I mean, like, so with the full scope of like Vietnam, I I guess for me, is it was a French colony.

It was French Indochina. Japan showed up. We started feeding insertion tactics to the Vietnamese to fight the Japanese. The Japanese were like, cool. We really don't want to be oppressed anymore. The French came back, but you know who took over? It was the British. And they heard about this guy called Ho Chi Minh. And Ho Chi Minh was like his last

rope. The British used the same tactics in Malaysia and Vietnam in like 1945. And they fucking found him and they were squeezing them. And the French were like, and give us all a country back. And they were like, no, like, no, we're winning. We're so close. They're like, we are so close. And the French were like, give it to us. We know what we're doing. And so the British gave it over.

And the French just went right back to like the shock and awe, hard power, not winning hearts and minds, just like killing people. Where it's like, I mean, you saw in Afghanistan, if you kill an insurgent and you have kids you now have three insurgents like is I So Fuck this I'm gonna go down a little a little rabbit hole on this one So that the general in charge of Vietnam was a guy called general Westmoreland and he brought up the idea of

attrition like he basically called, he used football analogies, all types of stuff, just a fucking complete idiot. And what he did was basically count dead bodies. And if you've read the book, matter horn, they talk about how like you kill three guys, wound two, and then it just keeps working its way up to like by the time it gets up to the division like they're like oh they killed like ten dudes and moved in like 20 on a patrol and like the attrition numbers are all fucked up. Can you still hear me? No you got it. Okay, my video froze but anyway there we go. So essentially yeah okay so essentially what happened is that the attrition exactly

like you were saying was the only thing America cared about because as many people have mentioned in the discord before, things in Vietnam became standardized by number. They didn't have like a physical, a different value and all had to be numbers. And so in Afghanistan, the general and chartered was the guy by the name of General Miller. Miller was former Ranger regimen, Delta Force. His whole plan when I was there was to just kill as many Taliban leaders as you can. Now, if you've never done HVT analysis or targeting, let me tell you how it works. You kill the fourth most wanted guy in Afghanistan,

and number five becomes number four, number six becomes number five. Like you don't just kill number four, and like that spot goes away forever, you kill number four and dudes move up the list. So essentially what you're doing is a war of attrition. That shit pissed me off beyond words. Like as, because Ranger regimen deployed

in three month rotations, they were counting HVTs and kills. So like, I think it was like by the time we left, all rate, like, as I did a nine month deployment, all the Ranger Regiment battalions had gone through, and if you had combined their total, they had killed 9,000 dudes in nine months. And these are like, Siri, that's just Ranger Regiment. That's not including Marsox, SEAL teams, ODAs, the Polish, the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the talking about like the disposition between like the us army and the US Marines Like the Marines are always sent to the worst area. Yep helmet like helmet like the British fought there for years Psych on and they left

Kate Man like like name one battle that lays out to like case on a Vietnam I think the only the only other one is hamburger hill. And that's the 101st getting its dick crushed in. And it's like, that's yeah, but go ahead, go ahead, I'm sorry. I'm not gonna say I was like, well, so the disposition between like the army

and the Marines where the Marines are like, we are supposed to be surrounded like blah, blah, blah. But the paratroopers also say that. so the Marines go to Hellman and they get eviscerated like 6th Marine Regiment, 24th Marine Regiment got so watered there and they did a pretty good job but then if you want to look at like I don't know like the Rangers so like we killed 4,000 people they're like yeah you didn't fix anything dude it's, what you did is made it worse for us. I hope dude, 100%.

And that's why like, reading stuff about like Rhodesia or like now Malaysia, which is getting added to the list, it's just, I think like if you're a veteran of Afghanistan or Iraq, like I think, like and you sit there and you're like, we could have won what the fuck was going on. I think you need to understand first how we lost, and the answer's always going to be

old school Marine Corps fighting gorillas, or Malaysia or British counterinsurgency. They have the answer, and it's attacking those logistics notes. And the whole time I was there, the only guys who were attacking the logistics of the Taliban were the British. MI5 and MI6 were targeting the heroin trade of Afghanistan, which acquainted for a counted for, sorry, an acquainted accounted for, 90% of the heroin in Europe, which is ridiculous. And so the guys who were tasked with that were the Lithuanians

and the Polish and tax south. And that's what they did. That's all the missions they did was burn heroin, go after drug dealers, child molesters, all that shit. Like the guys who traded the money for the Taliban. And that was the British who done it. It was like genuinely evil people that needed to be like deleted just yeah gone but and

Like the British understand this They go like who is the problem they don't say what is the problem they say who is the problem? Yeah, where the Americans go what is the problem? Yeah, and it's it's it's it's a different way of thinking of things I I also think that a big part of it has to do with matters of efficiency. So like if you look at Malaysia, like once again, the British only carry like a Rucksack and a rifle. They don't have the whole goddamn fucking military industrial complex behind them. The British, like it isn't grained in them that they cannot sit there and blow their load on

Whatever mission they're on because they don't they know that are like we don't have that much to work with and then they they But I mean that if you're looking in the mirror and you're saying that every day when you're planning operations You say the same thing about the the opponent and you, okay, exactly like you said, how do I get rid of what's on his plate? How do I target his food? How do I target his munitions? How do I target his beds? Like you start going for his logistics, which is, you know, if you've ever heard it said, amateurs think tactics, masters think logistics. The army doesn't have that issue. I got one fucking time I was there, did I ever hear anybody with an American flag patch on their side say, we need to go for the logistics.

Nobody said that. We were always trying to kill him. Never. And nobody was concerned with the millions of dollars of heroin that the British, the Lithuanians and the Polish were going after. Same thing in Vietnam. Like nobody sat there and went for the rice, the guns, the ammo, and shit. Like, yeah, oh, they targeted the Ho Chi Minh Trail. We bombed it from a distance. Like we didn't, we didn't like gut.

Yeah, but from there, like the Ho Chi Minh Trail, like we sent the CIA into Laos. Yeah. And we're like, what? So we created another secret war where it's like, should the Americans started in like what? What was it? It's not a 38 parallel, it's. Yeah, it's another parallel. God damn it. Whatever the parallel is, yeah. So the Americans show up there, and they're hanging out in Saigon, right?

But the Ho Chi Minh Trail, is essentially for the listeners there, neutral countries that can fuel war. So the Vietnamese, the NVA, they were going to Laos, they were heading south, they were hitting like Saigon, and that is like the 10th offensive. Or the, it's one of those, where it's like brother man. Like the Americans were just outsmarted every single day.

And the British were like, yeah, I know what you're doing. No, zero fucking chance. Yeah. Yeah. So it was the 17th parallel and 17th. Yep. It, it, dude, it, I don't know if it pains me or it pisses me off, but when you look at it from a holistic standpoint with the British and, you know, the, the Chetanan War and all these wars of counterinsurgency. It blows my mind that we sat there and we had this issue of the Vietnam War, what do we do? And immediately we created almost like every fucking J-sock unit. To like, oh God, we gotta figure this out. Let's just create an elite team of men, like QD8.

Like dude, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was. It was one of those, it was, it was, it was, it was. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it G.I. on the ground who's actually probably making arguably the most difference is just given basic training in m16 210 rounds until go fuck yourself and like what the fuck is going on? Well, it's like so what would the special operations before Vietnam Rangers? They were at point to hawk at Normandy, but that was about it like Rangers Rangers Marine Raiders you had marine I think that was about it like it was marine Raiders Well, yeah, they were CIA like something kind of did they were like civilians

But it was like marine Raiders and Rangers and Vietnam this thing called Mark V saw shows up and in Vietnam, this thing called Mark V. Sorgh shows up. And for anyone who doesn't know, these special operations compound in America is called the JFK site. Like JFK created this. It's one of those where you're like, like I understand the reasoning for special operations,

but as you and I talked about with like Iraq 91, 04 or 03 and 14, you're like, oh, special operations took over. And you're like, they're not fixing anything. Yeah. Special operations are direct action. You are me in the Marine Corps like a, what is the term? It is a stabilization force. What is the term? It is a stabilization force Which going back to like the British like dude their army knew how to do this. They're like oh We send a guy down the road. Yeah shot at all right cool. So that village is on the list What we need to do is run off other food all poison on their water and

We want them to give us willingly all their boys. All their boys, every single one. Because the boys are the insurgents, it's not the girls, it's not the kids, it's the boys. We'll give them to us. And they did, that they willingly gave up the insurgents for the promise of being like a British, like personnel, like it was insane. It, it once again, it just goes back to that, that quality of soldier I've done by the British. It's, it's absolutely once again, just wild to me, that we created an answer to a question that,

that we created an answer to a question that, we created a different answer, molded the question over and changed the question and then recreated a new answer to fix something that already has a solution. Like we were like, okay, for counterinsurgency, we're gonna invent special forces, the CIA, Navy SEALs, all these strike team packages, tons of training and money, and the British are sitting there just using regular forces for this.

And you just stand there, and it has to be asked, like, what the fuck is going on? And like even before that, you have the Marine Corps, who once again, before War War II and War War I was doing all the counterinsurgency we could have ever asked for. And so it- They're in a wars, man. Banana wars. They were- Oh, they were down there like Central America crushing the certainties.

Yeah, and you just sit there and you look at this and you go, okay, I get some of this like Green Berets do force multiplication. That's a kind of a neat idea, but it's just, this is an answer to a question that already had, it's not a fucking math problem. It's a formula. It's a mathematical formula. And the British are going like a square plus b squared equals c squared. And we're going b to the fourth quadrant of x2 will make the c4 to make it C2. And what the fuck did you just do? Like we are doing the same thing as you right across the road in Malaysia. This is how you do it.

And we, like you said, we not only did shock and all, we created new weapons to do more shock and all. And it, I don't, it doesn't make sense. And it doesn't, and what's even crazier is like, you were talking about World War II. And it's just like, OK, there was the OSS, there was the Devil's Brigade, there was the Marine Raiders, there was the Ranger Regiment, there were all these

soft elements that happened, but then Vietnam occurs, and those soft elements actually stay with us. And so there's this kind of weird thing where it's like if the United States can create more shock and awe systems and more systems that do just basically more blatant fucking killing. It doesn't matter if it's effective or not.

If it's a new weapon that can cause more bloodshed and killing, it's like, oh, that's cool. Let's keep moving that forward. And we'll keep that moving on. And it's like, why? Why? Why? What? I think it was even, I think it was in the British who used Napalm first. And they were like, you know what Napalm does? Pists as people off. They're like, yeah, yeah. You probably shouldn't use Napalm on a village. You know, like it's, oh God, what else, what else the British do? The, uh, so when, when a few of the British officers got killed, the British like thought to themselves, they were like, all right, so how do we fight this?

They reduce the number of active body personnel and have them hang out with villages to be like, no, we're actually the good guys. Where the US doubled up. So there was more like Marines and soldiers in the streets. Like pissing off like the local population where the British are like, let's produce the amount of bodies. And from here, we can actually like talk to the average person and like see what they want. So we can gauge like village A wants to be communist, village B wants to be English, village C wants to be independent and you're like cool. I think village B and C can work with us. However, village A gotta go. So they also did a system called the honey pot where they would pretend like they were relaxing in joke and doing nothing to lure the communist rebels in in Malaysia.

And so like the communist would be like, oh, there's a little army base here that's fucking off. Let's go there. And then like, there'd be roaming patrols around the base waiting for them to come. And then the British would kill them. And it, once again, it's just junior leaders using one platoon as bait. It goes back to it. Like they're coming up with systems with what they have versus creating new things, bringing in more money and dishing it out. And the other thing you mentioned is not only do you have this system of, you know, more is better, it goes back to the numbers right like everything was a number in Vietnam because we just had so much shit on the table like it wasn't thing Regular peat regular dudes and like units on the ground didn't matter and they couldn't do anything

As far as like getting the job done, you know, if you read books on Vietnam, a lot of, you know, the platoons are just doing things, whatever the battalion commander or the brigade commander wants them to do in these operations versus the British who like you said, they're doing like small unit tactics with regular dudes. And that, well, I think the other thing, and it's, I mean, I keep coming back to this one, the cultural reception, the British did not care about

or Malaysia, the Americans hated Vietnam. Yeah. Where there was never a draft notice to a British soldier saying like, Hey, I understand you're at Oxford. Guess what, you're not an officer, put in America. You're like, you're a little rock Arkansas. Guess what, you know a corporal on the, or you're not a private in the US army. They're like buckle up.

Yeah, the approach from like how the government's even like got soldiers because both these wars lasted about 20 years. And the British were like, we can't piss off our own people because Pissed off people does not make soldiers America was like we need soldiers and we're gonna draft anyone so like half the people want to Candida half people want to Vietnam half the people are like protested like there was like three camps, right and In England that never happened It was a 20 year long war. And I think they contributed, I think, like, across the board, like, maybe, maybe,

you're 7,000 bodies in country at one time, where America was like 56. Just thousands of people. And the British were like, hey, America, I don't think you're gonna win. I'm like, you should probably, like, stop blowing up villages. The other thing I read was that the British

not only did they not do a draft, but they pulled from all over the Commonwealth, anybody that would come south of North Rhodesia. They had Rhodesians. And they took all their skills and took them right back to Rudeed, and if I had the comments there, send them. Well, Australians who had fought the Japanese at the end of X, I should say, they had the Canadians, they had all sorts of soldiers there willing to do the deed, and then they also had Malaysians who were there supporting them, like British Malaysians who were there. And I think that that's one of those things that The United States likes to sit there and say like oh, we're a diverse military

But if you've ever and this is gonna sound really weird, but stick with me. I call them John Smith He's your every day batai and commander. He goes to church. He plays golf. He loves to run He's got a little bit of a belly because he loves beer and he loves his blonde wife with two to three kids on average, like her batine commanders in the army are the same guy, like done to, like line them up in the brigade formation. It's just the same dude everywhere

from like in combat arms, I should say, specifically because like logistics and finance, those could be anybody. But when it's like infantry armor and aviation, it's the same white dude, black hair guy, and they don't have a different system. They don't have a worldly knowledge, whereas like many British officers, especially in this time period,

some of them were born in India, some of them were born in South Africa, some of them were born in Canada, or in Britain. Their dads did things all around the world. They had a knowledge of the whole world. They're extremely well-cultured. Like, as extremely well-cultured as one could probably get versus John Smith in Vietnam, who, like you said said went to Oxford or West Point and so That and and then you have the draft as well. So you have this every dude in charge at the battalion level And up is the same fucking guy and then everybody at the platoon level and lower Enlisted are just poor Americans who couldn't escape the draft So you have like the worst fucking people on both ends of the spectrum versus the British army at this time period who had completely different things going

on. They had well-cultured officers who were born all over the Empire who had done many things and their fathers had done many things and they were very well-cultured. You had an army that wanted to be there. It was a volunteer force made up of volunteers from all across the world with different perspectives. And so it's, it's almost cheating like fuck. Like it, it, it, as far as like looking at that from like a four structure point of view, it's, I mean, you have everything there. You have veterans of the Western Front to the Bush Wars to Japanese Southeast Asia island hopping. It's yeah they knew by the time they probably got to Malaysia they

had seen it all. There was nothing that they could have fucking done versus like Lieutenant Colonel. And the crazy, yeah, the craziest part is like the brits are like 35 doing this or like what was the was the average British soldier at this point like probably like 26 yeah they were a lot older they were a lot older and they kind of like knew how the world worked with the average American and Vietnam was 18 yeah we're like these kids have no clue how the world works like they were roped up out of like demoyna Iowa and thrown it through the fire where the breads were like Ah, no

It's also like a different way of looking at like culture where the British are very much like this is ours Where the Americans very much like we're electing to claim the title of Empire. Yeah Going back to like what you said about like the French and and I think that that's a big part of it too is that Vietnam like what you said about like the French and I think that that's a big part of it too is that Vietnam thought the French before we had even gotten there and they've got a win there and I mean it's not I'm not shitting on the French I guess what I would say is like the France from World War France from World War One to I would argue now has had a lot of problems because they've been the battleground. They lost a lot of men, they lost a lot of like their industry. They're trying to figure all this out.

They fought communism with us. They got rebuilt under the Marshall Plan. They lost all their colonies and all that stuff. So they've got been dealt a really bad hand in the 20th century. Um, so, you know, if you're going in against the team, the Vietnamese, who've already gotten the W, and, like, they know the, they know the game plan, right? Like, alright, come on. We just fucking tear apart the AA guns, one piece at a time, help them to do bin food, and then we fucking slaughter them. I mean, that's what they did at Case-On, and that's what they did during the Tet Offensive was they fucking

Just did it all over again, you know, and like you said The British really didn't care about my laser. They they knew it was a war. They knew it was going on But it's like hey, we I mean from what I read like Winston Churchill was like this is a cost to guess a lot of money You guys need to fucking figure this shit out, hey, we, I mean, from what I read, like Winston Churchill was like, this is a cost of gifts a lot of money. You guys need to fuck it, figure this shit out. And then, yeah, yeah. Like, the Vietnamese, they knew during the Paris piece of courts when we were done, you know, the fucking, whatever Captain Colonel just looked at that NBA officer

and was like, we never lost a battle. And he goes, I don't give a fuck. And like, fuck it. And like, he knew, he and he goes I don't give a fuck I like fucking like he knew he's like I got it I don't care if we lose every battle we just got to win the war and we just got to break the American populace and it goes back to the value of American culture it's absolutely dog shit here like As long as I got that bookies nuggets and their big 64 ounce super gulp. They're fine Oh, dude the average American just crushes like 48 ounces of like a black burnt co-off you from a 7-11 Wash it down with a mobile red and a hot dog. Yeah, like it's you're like that's an American where it's like

It's not bad. Not saying it's bad. But in wartime. That's awful. Yeah That thing. Hold that, hold it. Fuck me. I don't know. Someone's knocking on the door downstairs. If you give me like two seconds, I like to. I can feel this.

Alright. I'll be right back. Hold on. Alright guys, so I'm going to use this time to talk about the Patreon. You've made it to the 42 minute mark. Guys, look. All right, the Patreon is great. It's not just great, it consumes my entire life.

It's not just extra content, okay? You don't just get a bonus episode. You don't get to see the papers that we can't write on Instagram that got Croatone Report killed. Okay, that's $3. $3, $3, $3. You get an extra episode, you get all the stuff, and all the writings on there.

Sometimes I throw in some dumb stuff like how to cross a bridge, I might do that soon. But it's in there, you can message me, we could talk, keep updated on things that are coming down the pipeline. What's going on for like the $10 here and above? Okay listen so the Discord. Discord is the primary weapon system of kitback. It's like the dishka. It's the 30 millimeter cannon on our BMP2 plus ATGM combo. It is perfect okay. We have physical trading going

on. We're talking about lift and weights, doing a gun run, I'll explain that in a minute here. We've got game nights as well, that's the $10 tier for $10, you get to play games with us, and I've just like one hour or two hours. Motherfucker, I'm in there on Saturday, play eight hours with these guys, a four-gamer adragon, we play squad, there's talks about doing war Thunder, war Thunder is free. We also have a project Zomboid server, which means you get to come in and hang out with the crew and do Zomboo Survival, all right? There's tons of stuff and it's only $10 a month, okay?

And the other thing that's going on in there is a thing called the Sky Cost X. Right now we are planning to do a 4K night time gun run in North Carolina, run by the gun run. It is an event where you have four shooting stages It's a 4k race. All right. We're sending guys from the Patreon there with me and Matt That's right. It's not just me and Matt go and it's you guys too and the Patreon pays for that We're using the Patreon money to pie for all sorts of things going on right so

If you are a lonely dude or a lonely girl that just wants to hang out and make some friends and talk shit the discord $10 a month $10 a month. That's like what like just skip McDonald's all right like Think about how high food that's a single Starbucks order. Yeah Yeah, yeah, it's quick you quick drink it that Starbucks shit go to Duncan two times for the week and save Quick, you, quick, drink it that Starbucks shit, go to Duncan two times for the week and save $10 and then come hang out with us for The rest of the month. It's fucking awesome, all right, so you're gonna love this. So yeah, I just like someone's like punching the door I was like, I'm gonna walk downstairs. It was like a Rando going just to let you know you can't park in these parking spaces for the next two days. It's like Just to let you know, you can't park in these parking spaces for the next two days.

It's like, it's like, why, why, why do you punch the door? It's like, what? But anyways, yeah, trying to get shot. Well, the, you know, it's like, what do you want? Why are you punching the door at six o'clock on a Sunday? That's like, get out of here. But anyways, um, yeah, talking about the Patreon. Malaysian view. Yeah.

So, um, yeah, like the way. Malaysian view. Yeah. So, oh, God. Like, the way the British approach Malaysia is a masterclass and they never declared it a war because of investors. I think investors like, think investors like Raytheon and Boeing, the British don't have that. No. Like, they have,

aww. They have a couple like BAE systems, I think. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the thing now, but I don't think it has a thing back in mind. Yeah, and so back in the day, the British military was funded by like families. Yeah. So families had to like invest. And so they were like, it's a limited war. We can't call it a war.

It was a war thrown through, but they never called it a war. They called it an emergency. So it never like startled the population. And it always it never subtle like investors, but in America, they're like, this is a goddamn war. We need to win the Communists and the dominant Ethereum. But yeah, it's, I mean, like what three or four administrations oversaw Vietnam. Yeah, and it's Give me a second. Let me look at the British prime ministers hold on. It was Churchill Oh, it was Churchill. There was a few other people. How funny is that though like to be prime minister in like the 1940s Get kicked out because they're like you're a war monger and invited back. They're like, how do we win a war?

I got it. It got to do it. It's very interesting because from like a diplomatic perspective, you're right. Like it, we went through three different presidents there, all of which like Evan flow of like different solutions like Mac V-Sog, special forces, then Johnson and Kim. Yeah, so Kennedy was very much like a like a limited approach. He was like, I do not want to send Americans to die in Vietnam. LBJ was like, fuck yeah. Nixon was like, we need to leave. Yes. It was like just different ways of looking at it. And his Kennedy was the president, and his vice president was LVJ.

And you're like, all right, so you're like, all right. So like, what? If you want to talk about political terms, two Democrats, one Republican, three completely different ways of looking at things. Yeah. And you're like, that's insane to me. And it's, I mean, I'm looking up the British, like their staff, but like, I want to say that there was, you talk about the politician who got

killed in the British, try the shock and awe. And they're like, it's not working. So they're like, let's reduce the amount of politicians in the country But the Americans like let's introduce the more soldiers We're like oh god, it's like just side for side. It just doesn't make any sense but Oh god the the America I'm looking in the book right now you can talk Just say it's there. I can just hear Jake right now. He's probably in his car just being like,

yeah, boy, British supremacy. Love me, guerrilla warfare. Love me, F.A. Well, I fucking crouched. Simple as. Yeah. Rove me, army. Rove me, country.

Eat yourself. Rove me, Mrs. Totally simple as. Like, yeah, I... I... We're basically just jerking off fucking the British army and their capabilities of like dealing with this. Right, here it is, here it is. So here's how the British approached Malaysia. It's a circle. So think like the Intelligent Circle.

Individual action slash attention to events. Then it its organizational performance gap identified. So it's like your guys like didn't perform properly. And then it's search for our alternative organizational actions. And then from there, it is sustained census except reject the appropriate alternative or solution as doctrine. So it's like, well, what do you do?

Like you get a pick one of the two. Do you change? Do you keep going? And then from. So it's like well, what do you do? Like you got to pick one of the two do you change to keep going and then from there it's Transmit interpretation published doctrine change refined as like an insurgent would and then from there It's changed in organizational behavior and then it's a circle that the British actually dropped it The British followed. Mm-hmm. They were like cool., we have to keep adapting. And the Americans just, they didn't know God. And you're right. Like, you're right. Like, all the way back in the beginning of this, the American Marine was no different from the American soldier. Yeah. It's, I mean, I've talked about this with some of the guys on the discord, but it's like the enlisted soldier in the American military has a great

adaptation. Like, you know, they invented things during the Iraq war that would prevent IEDs, say, invented the system that pre-triggered remote-detinated IEDs, the gun trucks and the logistics units. They're really good at surviving, but the reason why that is is because American officers are not like, I've had a long standing

joke with like infantry guys who all go, they go to West Point, they go to Ranger School, they get to the line, and then they all think the same. Like if you can figure out how to kill one American officer, you know how to kill all of them. They're all the same dude, they're all trying to be John Smith, Battalion Commander one day from Second Lieutenant to Lieutenant Colonel. And they all think the same. What versus like the very thing of that book is like look you all need to figure out what's going on in your local area and come up with a solution and then get back to us with it so we can create doctrine and spill it out to the other guys. Otherwise, it gets

even better. So I was like, flipping through the pages, so on the British doctrine, so they had five questions they would ask before it changed doctrine. Number one, does the Army promote suggestions in the field? All right, like you went out on patrol, you came back. Number two, our subordinates encourage to question their superiors and the policies. Where it's like, I mean, you can have a politician in London saying, we're winning, and you have a grunt in Malaysia going like, no, we're not. Yeah. Um, number three, just the organization regularly question is basic assumptions, which is lumping a group

people into like one category where it's like all Malaysians are insurgents like Americans did all Vietnamese the only good gook is a dead goose like one of those things we're like oh you're like oh that's fucking bad number four are high ranking officers routinely in close contact with those in the ground yeah that's uh it's like it that's like, it's a big one. It's a big one. And then number five, our standard operating procedures, SOPs,

generally located and informally or imposed from the center. So it's like the British would do after actions and take it seriously, where the Americans didn't. Where it's like, it's one thing to say you're winning the war from like Washington, DC. It's another to be like an American Lance Corporal

who was drafted in the trenches. He's like, no, we're fucking not. Like it's like, but the British took that seriously and the Americans I want to say did not. I would I had a instructor who told me there is significant overlap in units whether he's like it doesn't matter And what he meant by that was he told me he's like, there are units that he had been in that were fucked. Like, if you think about them, like side by side is like an individual bar graph.

He's like, the Rangers sometimes perform at like a one to set 10 scale. He's like, they may perform on their horse platoon, might perform at a four, and their platoon might perform at a four and their best Unit might perform at a nine. He's like, but that's a wide range to be on He's like, I've been in you know, it there are a national guard and conventional army units that are a zero They're fucking useless. He's like, but there are He's like, but there are regular military units or conventional infantry or national guard units that perform at like a seven or an eight.

And there's their fucking phenomenal. I mean, there's a couple who went on to be called like the lost Ranger regiment, like the Japanese specific one that fought in southern France during World War II. It was like an all Japanese unit or the Harlem Hell fighters, but or like, you know, same thing with like special forces and stuff. He's like, it's not a matter of what unit you're in or what A.O. or whatever. He's like, it's specifically tied to junior leaders and senior officers. He's like, because Lieutenant to Captain is just kind of managing shit, where, you know, like your E8 and your E7s are really making the unit what it is. And his point being was like that last point you said the AAR, he's like, if you're really

dedicated to making a better unit, a better system, he's like, there's nothing stopping you in the American military. It's just that most people, and it goes back to that first point, you said, we love degeneracy in the American military. We love being like, oh, we fucking suck. We have the highest suicide rate in the entire core. But like, nobody wants to be that showed at the end of the AAR and being like, we need to do this.

We should have done this. We should have been better at this. And we sucked here. We did that good. Nobody wants to be the guy. Right. So, talking about AARs. So here it is. I found it the British Army 1951 so

1948 started 1951 the British Army came out with five questions number one victory the achievement of national goals doubtful objective the settling of realistic national goals, no. Unity of command, military subordination and political objectives, no. Economy of force, minimum necessary force, yes, mass, appropriate structure of your threat, no. So theate structure for threat. No. So the British set down to those ARs fucking seriously.

And they're like, all right, so the soldiers are telling us it's not working. We need to change where, like my grant, like dude, I could write a lot about my grandfather for forever. He got three upper hearts and Vietnam, like, he's dead now. But like, so it's like, so I mean, like looking at the British and their structuring, where they're like, we need to take the after action report seriously. My grandfather, who is in marine fighting in like middle Vietnam, northern Vietnam, was like, yeah, I killed the kids. So what?

you know, was like, yeah, I killed the kids. So what? Yeah, like, I mean, it, it's a cultural thing for the British, right? Like, what's that? I'm going to call it diagonal. Allie because Harry Potter and it's fucking hilarious. And it's going to, we've been jerking off the British too much. But there's a, there's an alley down in London where they have like a whole like rich people shopping center where they do like suits, chocolates, food, accessories and stuff like that. Like they take a great like in the Kingsman where they talk about like suits and like making things of high quality and like they do like all the British army and stuff like that. And it's just this high quality pride in their work.

And it's a cultural thing. Like you said, it goes back to the psychology of the British not only like their soldiers, but like their people. They have a quality to their work in all things that they do versus like Americans where it's like, hey, bro, no fucking fix it. Like fucking, I mean, you said it yourself and not the fucking shit Autumn but like your grandpa got three purple hearts like did you not learn the first time like what the fuck happened man?

Well, those are so Cody you're gonna love this so I have the book I don't know the after action report like review five points six points number one bought about Pimp what? the after-action report like review. Five points, six points. Number one, bottom up input, suggestions from the field or regular's channel only, they are winning. Yeah.

Superior's question, no available. Yes. theoretical thinking, low level, possible. theoretical thinking low level possible. Local doctrine development. No. Local trainer centers. Yes. Self-sufficient. No. So the British like took that to fucking heart. Like they were like, all right. So they looked at the after-actions and they grabbed the Oscars and the NCS. They're like, all right, so they looked at the after-actions and they grabbed the Oscars and the NCS They're like, all right, so how's it going? And they were honest and the British were like, thank you for being honest.

We're in America. They're like, you're fucking on. Like, I mean, dude, you and I, I mean, I've done it. Like in my- My favorite Matt quote, where are they getting water? Shut up. Where are they getting water shut up Where are they getting water like shut up. No, it's like no, it's kind of a good question, but it's Like the British took after actions seriously and Americans did not And Malaysia was like what 16 years Vietnam was 20. Yeah. And dude is watching interviews with it's painful and watching interviews with

Vietnam Bets. Like I really hope American never fights a war like this when we did. Uh, it I mean we did. Yeah. Afghanistan just what like 20 years, 22 years. Like it's like like 20 years, 22 years, like it's like, but then it's one of those where it's like, all right, so you're a kid, you're, so in England, like I was a soldier, your grandfather was a soldier, you'll be a soldier. They're like, understood. They're like, adapt, overcome, win, and America.

They're like, uh, like I when in America, they're like, uh, like, I was a soldier, but my dad didn't like it, and then, I don't know. I mean, I went to Afghanistan, I didn't really care for it. I really hope you don't, oh, you went there. All right, cool. So, I really hope that you don't talk about it,

where it's like, the British like own it, and the Americans don't. Well, I mean, yeah, it goes back to that bit about, I said like the uniforms, like everything from like, the SAS don't even talk, like they have a cultural thing where like their special operations don't talk. Like they kick guys out who go and talk and blab about what they do and it's

It's weird to them when they see like our soft talking talking shit like nobody wants to hear a Guy who was in the thunder run talk about Baghdad or nobody wants to hear the 25th marine division talk about how they got slaughtered as marine Reservists in Iraq or any of those things. Like they don't, all Americans love a good Navy SEAL book. As much as they don't want to admit it, like I love seeing it. It's absolutely hilarious. Like is much as they refuse to enlist, they love the ones who did. Like I mean, dude, it is, especially the Ocent community and like the fans and I'm sure

there's a couple who listen to this podcast, but there is nothing funnier than an American that from like a 13 year old boy to 40 years old just being like, did you see lone survivor? Have you seen the CIA agent pod? These are fucking phenomenal. It's like, bro. That pool that you're reading in is like a foot deep, and it's a kiddie pool of knowledge. Like, I shot a bad guy in the face.

Oh, he could. The like, he could. All right, so here it is. I was talking about beforehand. But I found it. So there's this chart, which is side by side with like doctrine. Number one, British Army versus US Army. Nature of threat, British Army limited empire. They're like, we're protecting the empire. America's national national existence where nobody was threatened in the US at this point. Roll of force, British minimal. US army, massifier power, slash technology.

And you're like, all right, so roll of army, the British exponential, the Americans national army, The British, exponential, the Americans' national army, which is like, it's not like we talked about it, the Malaysians. Like, the British used Malaysians to fight for their own country, where Americans told the Vietnamese to shut the fuck up, and we did a forum. All right, going from there, coin counter-insurgency tactics, the British, close civil military cooperation, identifying solve the problem, to centralize small unit Americans, military domination in politics,

solve political problems with military, conventional big unit tactics. Yeah. And then from there, national character, the British, patience, patience the Americans impotence Yeah, where it's like we're thinking like shortsighted from there roll of special forces your favorite British limited gradual America's co-opted into the main army Jesus yeah Yeah, no look from there from there commitment to nation America is co-opted into the main army. Jesus, yeah. Yeah.

Number from there, from there. Commitment to nation, the British colonial assistance for independence, Americans paternal, we can fix this. Nation of war, nature of war, shades of gray, the British were like, there's a gray area. Americans, binary. They're like, it's us or them. Nature of victory, long haul, 51%. We just need to win at 51%. The Americans

100% or get out. And then location leadership, the British, and this is is gonna blow your mind Local leadership Americans central management. Yep. It's it and it's It's the same war fought two different places and we approach it so differently. Yep What's crazy to me is that's an actual a. R. Right. Like that's an actual British a. R Yeah, yeah, it's a British aAR phone. Yeah, it's a British AAR, yeah. They are 70 years away from us. And they're talking about it, just like we're talking about it.

They're like, these fucking Americans are out there acting like a bunch of fucking cowboys. Like I was just saying, like that pool of knowledge is five inches deep. It's a Navy SEAL book, shoot them in the face, hearty, har har. Like, we're, look at all this sick shit.

And then like these British who are just like, look, if we can manage this with what limited, it even says limited, limited capacity. Exactly what we need, mass when we need to, but then go out and disperse when we're not, and get the job done and win I think we can get out of here versus like America where it's like shoot them in the face total win 100 to zero point game fuck it. I'm losing. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home screw you guys and

Here it is here it is. It's like it built it built on top of that so yeah, God is. It's like it built it built on top of that. So, oh, God, it's a fuck. So, the British, their after action where they were shocking off first and they were like, we should really think about this. Here's their approach. Step one, are the priorities right? Number two, are instructions right? Number three, is the organization right number four. They're the right of the people on side of the organization. Number five.

Do the people like us? Number six. Leave them to win it or we will. Mm-hmm. Where it's like, it's like the Americans didn't do that. The British looked at this so differently and they won and they won and it's like, it's like the Americans didn't do that. The British looked at this so differently and they won. And they won and it's, like it might be a whole episode talking about the French and Vietnam and Algeria where they lost hard both times.

But like the Vietnam is the first like humbling American like situation. We're Malaysia, the British were like, we know how to do this. Like the fuck, huh? Well, I'm gonna keep flipping through this book because it's so good, but go ahead. I was about to say, so I've been fucking putting my thumb

in the eye of this shit, but it just goes back to like, when the fuck did we really lose like the American, like the actual American? Like, because it's literally a war, I think it's a World War II hangover. I really do think that people got like wrapped up in pattern, they got wrapped up in green berets, OSS, Navy SEALs, they got wrapped up and all this football, bullshit,

dumbing down of the water. Because like if you think about this from like even like a cowboys in Indian standpoint, like we've been doing, even the army did counterinsurgency well and from like before it was a nation, like the Ohio Valley, the Great West, the Mexican border, like we've been doing that shit too. Like we'd always, but like just save as the Marines as I was sitting here and I was thinking

about it. It just, I mean the Buffalo soldiers were literally black men who wanted to go get freedom in land out west, so they volunteered for the army and fought the Indians and kicked their asses. Like outnumbered in their land. Land that the Indians had owned for thousands of years. And. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here we go. Strap in victory, achievement of national goals. No, objective, setting realistic national goals. No, unity of command, military subordination of political objectives. No, minimal force, minimal force necessary to achieve victory. No, mass, appropriate structure of threat and how to assess it. No. So the British like reviewed us.

The Brits reviewed us and came to us or like we know how to win. And we were like, go fuck yourself. We beat you in 1776. And the Brits, we were like, go fuck yourself. You're like, we beat you in 1776. Like, huh? And the bridge, we're like, no, we're telling how to win. And we're like, fucking listen to me. Oh God. Damn it. That's embarrassing.

That is embarrassing that an army, like a 10th of our size, came to us after a victory and was like, hey, you want to know how to win? And we said said fuck off Yeah, I just found the BDA from Vietnam hold on. Oh, is it like oh? That's right this book compares the two. That's right. That's why this is gonna. Here's the two Yeah, it cares to so January January 1986, US troop strength, 498,000, opposition unknown, American KAA, 12,000 American KIA 813 July January

1969 542,000 KIA 75 and that's not wounded in the action. That is not a casualty. This KIA We'll kill you. We'll kill you. I mean, that's the thing. And this book is written from like the British perspective. January 1970, 473,000 Americans. K, 343. That's pretty good. That's our K.I. Right. Like how many we lost?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they're comparing. Yeah, I mean, 300 is kind of a lot, but it's, the British were like comparing, they're like, we're not losing this much. Why are you? And they got less troops there in the laser. Yeah, so the American said, I think, at like the max like 375,000 the British had like 2000

Like it was so small And they were like if they were like if anyone shoes at us you burn that fucking village to the ground And then you build it up. They're like, alright, so whoever shot at me Doesn't like me. However Yeah, we got you so it's dude. It's such a different way of thinking. I'm gonna flip through this book a little more because it Yeah, it it goes and that that whole thing right like you've got these two thousand soldiers versus like the hundreds of thousands that we had in Vietnam. And it's just like, not to jerk off the British even more, but it's just like once again, the guys who were there during that time, you know, they do like trips to Africa, they're writing books, they're poets and stoics and war veterans,

and they're sophisticated men. Like you said, the average age was much higher than the 18-year-old than Vietnam and it's just you think about all those pictures of like those you know those 20th century British explorers and the empire and doing all that. Like these were men of sophistication and like quality versus like the quantity of bullshit we just sent to Vietnam, right? Like, it just, it goes back to like, it's like, just fucking Bucky's Nuggets and shallow water pools of Snavy Seal Netflix series, NBC bullshit, and it's just, how dare we not just look in the mirror and go,

am I a stupid idiot or just looking at all of them? It's one of those like, you're like, am I the baddie? Yeah, am I the baddie? Like fucking, I'm either baddie. I'm the bad guy. Like, dude, so, this is a podcast for another time, but America in the 1890s adopted the German military structure and we put spikes on our cavalryman's helmets

and they were like that is a warrior culture We were looking for one yeah because Americans refused to embrace English And they're like we got to find one so they adopted the Prussians And it's it's why but here it is here it is so So in Malaysia So in Malaysia, all right, so kill the interaction. 66,000 wounded 28,000 captured 226 security forces like British

1800 2500 wounded captured none 2500 wounded captured none civilians 2,400 captured and are wounded 800 captured none and it's like The British fucking slaughtered them. Yeah Body to they just they bided them. It was 80,000 compared to 2000 is insane. That... I don't have... Yeah, as you've been reading it, I've been going on this like kind of piecemeal tangent. I guess I would sum it up with like... There is something to that. There is something to the quality of men

of the British army at that time period post-war war two and before because this is still the empire as it's dying off, but like there, that those fucking redcoats as I should put it because we've been jerking them off all the podcasts, but the men who, you know, they were born in India, did time in Africa, served against the Germans, and then went on to do counterinsurgency in Malaysia. They're men of quality. And like, not to be an alpha male man camp. This is what real men are like, but it's like if you're looking for something that like, you know, you're like questioning your, your manhood and you're

like looking at fucking Andrew Tate podcasts. Maybe you just go to that. Maybe find those, because I mean, probably most likely some of those guys went on to go serve in the Congo with Mad Mike Hor. But like these guys, these British men who did World War Two, Malaysia and then the Congo and all these things. Like, they're men of quality. They're cultured men. They're traveling the world. They're fighting communism. They're doing all these things.

I mean, you want to talk about, like, they're not stupid. And they believe in what they're saying. Yeah. Like, they believe in what they're saying. You can read. All right. So here it is. Here it is. You can read it until they have a firm handshake.

Like, fucking. Here's the, here's the British assessment of KAA and Vietnam. 1968, American strength, 537,000 KAA, hold on, hold on, before that January 1968, 1200 people. July 1968, 813. July 1969, 795. July 1969, 638. January 1970, 343. July 1970, 332. And it goes down, but the British were like you're losing Because your people don't care Hmm and it's one of those where it's like a fucking Got punched. It's a reality check where it's like god damn dude like yeah

The British retis so easy and they gave us the tools and we didn't follow it. I'm going to have to delve into this. I mean, it's just there's something here. I don't know what it is, but it's like we sit here and we talk about it. This is quality shit and it's something that if you're a guy who or a gal who likes to read and learn about soldiering and like quality people in wartime, it's like there is something to be said about how to eat soup with a knife is not the name of the book.

Yeah. And then British soldiering in this time period, like it's not can I know Jake is smiling in his car as he listens to this as he's going on another trip, but like It is there's something here and it's It's the nugget if you listen to Andrew Tate and All those guys like I'm gonna teach you to be a man. Just study British men between 1914 and 1970 like there's 50 years of traveling around Oh my god. Oh my god. Hold that. Hold that. Hold that. Hold that. It's...

Have I talked about the general with you? The general? No. Give me a second. Hold on. We're downstairs. Give me a second. Keep going. Oh god. I gotta care this. No, it's just to wrap my thought up as Matt leaves and he's done all these stats and I keep piece-mealing this thought together. It's just the quality is here. There's something here. I need to read it.

I need to look into it. But the idea of an officer and a gentleman, the idea of going around the world and being a mercenary or doing adventurous things. Like it's not in your David Goggins' Andrew Tate fucking how to be a man or your Navy SEAL Army Ranger CIA book. It's here. It's in the nuggets in Malaysia. I would say the answer is in Malaysia, it's in the British officer corps of this time. It's in the NCO corps of this time. What were they doing?

What were they learning? How did they fight? How did they train? I mean, they fought on... They fought the Germans and then they went and did Garner Insurgency in Malaysia. Then some of the British Empire also fought in North Africa. And then others also fought here against the Japanese and in Hong Kong. And so, it's, these guys are able to do conventional warfare and they're able to do a regular warfare.

From what I have read, you know, they go on to not only do this, but like Mad Mike Hoer who is the guy, the Belgium's in the Congo, right? The Belgian mercenaries, British officer who had done these, who had done these conflicts, and he led the Belgian mercenaries. And if you're wondering, yeah, they were civilian. The fifth commandos of the Congo, they were mostly civilians, they were civilian. They did the fifth commandos of the Congo. They were mostly civilians. There were some war vets. There were some NCOs that helped

Mad Mike construct a training regiment to get those civilians up standard, PT, shooting, patrolling. And then they went out and did the goddamn thing. And then they basically beat the communist rumbles back the Congo. And so the answer's here. And so it's the answers here. About an hour and 20 minutes in.

And so where you go? All right, all right. So I'm back. So CS Forester made this book called General. CS Forester was not a veteran. It was like a nonfiction like book. So let me like float through this. It's it's about a British Army officer in the Borough War 1898 and he follows like the doctor and whatnot and he goes on to

fight and work for one and he's, we need to attack the term position. And then the the brits are like, why? Why will we do this? This doesn't make any sense. And he's like, no, this is your job. Like go do it. So in the 1930s, when the Nazis took over, they made every single NCO and officer read the general. They're like, here's how you beat the British. So the British got crushed and antwerved and at Dunkirk. Just fucking crushed. Yeah, this is because this butt gave up all their secrets. And... Oh, it's one of those first like, I mean, if you're a communist, or like you're an insertion,

I would read your shit. Like, if I wanted to fight communism, I would read the manifesto, you know? So... Oh, yeah. So the general is a step-for-step basis on how to like read the British army and the Nazis write it and Fucking cross the British. They're like they don't they don't change You don't change He's like so what is in the battle of Dunkirk? There's like what 300,000 guys on the beach and

The British sailors were like it takes three years to build a battleship and a hundred years of build tradition pull the boys up like get off beach but the Germans were like cool your valedine air suspicions so nice nice oh it's so good it's so good. It's so good. Well general Kelly from the US Marine Corps. It was actually the one who turned me on to it because he said every time he got promoted, he read this book and he did not want to be complacent. And General Kelly, he was the highest-served US military official who lost his son, not Vietnam, Iraq, and I met him. He is so smart. He's so cool. Jim's, Jimless fucking an American. And I think he's a fucking, he's a fucking American dude. Like he's US Marine. He's an American. And

he's one of those like we need to crush the enemy. But not the other Marines liked him. And I was like, I was like, is it because you said, dick? Like, wait, you can't need those. But well, so that's two good books. I mean, it's been an hour and 23 minutes. That is how to eat soup with a knife and the general. Like I said, I've given my thoughts on it. That's, yeah, the Patreon already plugged that, but I'll plug it one last time just to let you guys know there's a ton of things going on. Like 95% of the stuff that we're doing

is mostly in the discord now and we're messing around in there and having a great time doing more posts now on Instagram and getting back on the horse with these podcasts. You got anything for them? Oh, I don't think so. No. All right. Well, that is the KitBank conversation's back east.

Alright, well, that is the KitBank conversation's back-ass.