Knowledge Fight - #249: Predicting 9/11

Episode Date: January 7, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan take a look at Alex Jones' claim that he predicted the attacks of September 11th. Alex made his prediction in July of 2001, but is there more to this story than he is telling? As is always the case with Alex, it appears that there is.

Andy and Chanzos you're on the air. Thanks for holding So Alex, I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you. Hey everybody. Welcome back to knowledge fight I'm Dan. I'm George. We're a couple dudes like to sit around drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about Alex Jones And indeed we are Dan. Hey, Dan. Yeah Do you ever get kicked out of class? Yeah. Oh so many times. So many times? I dropped out of high school. I got kicked out of Well, I know you dropped out of high school. I'm not welcome back to classes just for skipping so much stuff like that Dropping out of high school is like getting kicked out of one big class. It's not I don't know I guess the one that like I remember the most was there was a like a math class that I was in

I think like junior year of high school. Oh, it was that was the year that I skipped most of and I had a teacher Mr. Sharp Who he was a real? I mean, he's a math teacher in high school. So of course, he's a bit of a dork, right? And he had these like he had little catchphrases that he would use about like math that he was teaching Okay, you know, he's talking about the reality piece of this. Oh boy You know, he's like when we look at the hypotenuse, you got to understand the reality piece is that the length is based on the other lengths Like I don't know what the reality piece in that Significes it was his way of saying like this is what you need to focus on

I got you and I think I missed a bunch of days. You're not gonna pass this class if you don't keep you don't come to class I was like, well the reality piece I So that was that was one of them. I got you know what for a line like that Every every bit of that for that to be a real line that you said in the moment. It felt pretty good Yeah, I think it's presaged my getting into stand-up comedy Yeah, I don't know man. My high school career was just chock full of me Being overly gifted in many ways like I could pass tests super easily write essays on stuff

I didn't really know much about but then like Just be like just the worst student. Yeah does not come in And just what would you skip out and do I'm mostly laid in bed. It was very depressed. Okay. Well, then that's super depressed Oh, no, I skipped it. I thought you were skipping out. I wasn't a badass I guess you could get that image based on the way I was telling that story But it has the appearance of being cool there's nothing see that was that was my trick man I would go to school. I'm just sleeping class. There you go. That's my trick But dropped out of high school did go to college. Everything's cool. I stayed in high school went to college never graduated

Who's the winner here? I don't know neither both Anyway, the listener despite our educational backgrounds being very different This is a podcast where I know a lot about Alex and I only know what you tell me about it is correct And today we have an interesting episode to go over something a little bit different that I got inspired to do We'll get into why exactly as we go along but first 11 something else that inspires me. You're not far off I It's pretty close. Okay, but something else that inspires me It's our listeners and our donors and I'd like to give a shout out to a couple new people who have signed up to support the show

First of all Rosie. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Rosie Thank you very much for taking time out of your very very busy riveting schedule. You mean the schedule is riveting It is exciting. It's impossible to tear your attention away indeed next Alexander. Thank you so much You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Alexander Alexander next mark. Thank you You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you mark John B. You're gonna make a sloop John B joke. Nope. You're about to answer. I was not close. I genuinely was not John B Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much John B Sloop sloop. I do

Colin thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk and finally today Jordan may have to make right something that once went wrong. We have to right a wrong. We do yes The way that I get these emails Sometimes things are like end up in the wrong folder like sometimes the people The emails that people have donated to the show it ends up in my like promotions tab In my Gmail and so sometimes but then also another thing that happens is that if someone has an account that maybe someone else's name Is on that other person will get the shout out And we we made a mistake in the past. Oh shit, and we need to correct that wrong

So Emma, thank you. You're a policy wonk, but in honor of our mistake. We are gonna make you an honorary technocrat I'm a policy wonk Someone someone Sotomayor sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy shark Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black action. He's a loser little little kitty, baby I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you so much Emma. Thank you very much. Sorry. Mia culpa I don't understand No, her husband's name was on the account as I understand What is this the 18th century? We're only the man is the one who controls the patriarchal bullshit

Yeah, but we're trying our best to make things right. Absolutely. Anyway, if you'd like to support the show And what we do you can go to our website knowledge fight calm click that button to support the show We would appreciate it. Make sure you get your husband's permission first. Hey. Hey now um, so Jordan today I The reason I I went down a little bit of a different road here with this Yes, um, is that on our last episode Alex was really going hard about this idea of these hacked documents that prove 9 11 Right, you know, we discussed how it's clearly a cyber

Extortion racket. Um, and that Alex is way off base on this No, it's definitely not something you should be supporting even if you sports the hypothetical content, right of those emails Right, uh and uh insurance documents and stuff like that So I started to think about uh 9 11 and Alex Jones's ownership of the space Uh, because that was another thing on that last episode a lot of the ideas of him trying to reclaim QAnon And so I was I was Ruminating on that and I realized that we've talked about how he produced loose change final cut And what have you and he's been on the forefront of 9 11 conspiracy theory

Um since the event quite frankly. Yeah, the day one. Yeah Uh, and so what I wanted to do is I wanted to talk about how He claims that he predicted 9 11. All right, and I want to go into that a little bit and try and assess exactly If we want to give him credit for that It's sort of up in the air a little bit. Oh Oh, do you mean are we going to give him credit for having actually applied analysis that Functioned the way it was supposed to I'm not sure even if that's how I would phrase it I'm going to say that we've just taken as read the idea that he predicted 9 11 because he says he did right so

Today we're going to start on july 25th 2001 when alex got on air and did what he says is him predicting 9 11 Oh, that was the date that he said that he's predicted. Okay july 25th 2001 here is from alex jones' uh mouth Hello ladies and gentlemen. I'm so glad that you could join us today For this Wednesday july 25th

2001 broadcast Tyranny is enveloping the globe and the united states is a shining jewel The globalists want to bring down and they will use terrorism as the pretext to get it done So that's coming up in the second half of the show very important Information i'm going to put the call out that you call the white house And tell them look we've seen the news stories that you've wanted to blow things up that you have blown things up And that you're saying that four million of us are going to die and we need marshal law and the associated press And one of your little drills you had

And that we're aware of who the terrorists are if you pull this this can stop this hit larian reistag event I want to put the toll free number up for congress And I won't want you to believe alex jones. I want you to go get these news stories off my website I want you to call these major newspapers. I want you to find out these statements were true by the white house about preparing for marshal law And I want you to let them know that if there is any terrorism We know who to blame The point is If any terrorism comes it's from this government

And if there was an outside threat like a bin laden who was a known cias in the 80s running the mujahideen war Whose family builds all the military bases over in saudi arabia right now as this is the board of iridium satellite He's the boogeyman they need in this orwellian phony system I want the white house numbers up there now A big part of this solution after you research all the government terrorism and check out what i'm saying is true Call the white house and tell them we know the government's planning terrorism We know oklahoma city and world trade center was terrorism We know the joint jesus staff wanted to blow up airliners baltimore sun

If you do it, we're going to blame you because we know who's up to it Or if you let some terrorist group drew it like the world trade center We know who to blame and you could save the planet So that's most of the substance of him predicting 9 11 on june 25th. I'm sorry july 25th 2001 so we have some pieces in there. He does bring up osama bin laden indeed He does bring up the world trade center, of course, but you can tell clearly from context that he's talking about the 93 attack Yeah, he's talking about that as an example of something that he thinks is fake Um, and also you can tell like when he's talking about blowing up airplanes

He's not talking about that in a predictive capacity. He's talking about a past event Yeah, he's talking about the joint chiefs of staff wanting to blow up airplanes not a future the joint chiefs of staff They're still they still well In his defense, they may never have stopped wanting to blow up right right, so there is that right He doesn't say there is an end date on when they wanted to blow up I'm not I'm not going to take too much away from him because there are a lot of specifics in there certainly Surprisingly, there's well, I mean it's not specifics in terms of him saying this is going to happen This is going to who's going to do it. This is where it's going to be or anything like that

But it's more it's more substance than you generally would expect from alex jones. You're missing it. You didn't get it It's numerology every word that he used either has nine letters or 11 letters. That's interesting. It's all in there It's supreme mathematics. Yeah, it's incredible It is interesting that that is not the case, but it's it is interesting to me that there's you know Um, it sounds a lot just like any alex show quite frankly Yeah, and it just so happens to have been a bit before 9 11 That's kind of a lot of the feel I get in terms of like screaming about how the government's preparing to stage terror attacks and stuff Like that's like you could choose almost any day of the week alex is going to have said something similar to that

If if he no, but here's the thing if he had done this exact same episode in 2003 It still would have made the exact same amount of sense. He did do this episode I'm certain that he did that's right. Yeah, because of course he's going to say that isama is going to attack again But he doesn't even he doesn't even crystal clearly say no He doesn't he's saying that uh osama bin laden is a boogie man of some of some sort Which is only stronger after he commits the second attack on the world trade second Yes, that is also important to consider. Yeah, so he also is comparing the idea of some terrorist attack That's to come as a hit larian Reich tag fire

Which is an important thing to keep in mind as we go along Um, so here here's the interesting thing There's another guy in the conspiracy world Uh gentleman by the name of bill cooper I don't know if you've ever heard of bill cooper. I do not know anything about bill cooper Well, let me tell you a little bit. I know a little bit about derek bill cooper. Who's that db cooper? William cooper bill cooper also first name milton, uh, but it goes by bill william He's a good change good change certainly

Uh, he was a pioneer of the paranoid militia broadcasting world and is absolutely an early hero of alex jones' There's literally no way around that from january 1993 to the time of his death in november 2001 Bill cooper distributed his own radio show hour of the time as a daily show Then later on a weekly basis. He covered it all he dabbled in ufos and mystery religions But more importantly to the world we look at he was also deeply interested in the idea of a one world government being formed He was a staunch defender of randy weaver the central figure at ruby ridge And did frequent episodes about how oklahoma city and waco didn't go down the way the government said they did He covered the difference between gold and silver as hard money versus the idea of soft currency and paper money

On a march 11th 1993 show he did an episode about the internet intentional devaluation of the dollar He covered the federal reserve and how income taxes aren't real He railed on socialists and spread suspicion about the council on foreign relations And trilateral commission as far back as 1993 when alex was 19 years old and still years away from ever being on the radio On a february 18th 1994 uh episode, uh bill cooper interviewed sheriff richard mac a central figure of the constitutional sheriff movement And someone who would go on to be a frequent guest on alex's show in the future There are a lot of overlaps between guests too including erin zellman the uh president of jews for the preservation of firearms Someone who was an early sponsor of alex jones's show right, uh, that's a mouthful. They should shorten that

Uh, I mean it really gets to the point. I mean they're jewish and they want to preserve the right to have guns How about jews keep guns? It's like cars for kids. I don't know. It's got a better ring to it might be too tight So All this is to say that if you look spiritually at the stuff that bill was putting out into the world There's no way to think that alex wasn't a big fan of his and probably was deeply inspired by him Was he a nationally syndicated guy or was he around? Southern market he was a guy who had like a short wave show, but it was it would go around You know it made the rounds. It was big. It wasn't just some sort of a local thing. That's just what I wanted to be

No, no, no, no. He was a very big deal and he wrote a book called behold a pale horse that uh, I don't know if this is true, but he he says it that it's the uh, number one most underground distributed book in the world in all of history Because there's no marketing numbers on there. There's no marketing and nothing really behind him or anything It's a it's a very very popular book in in these worlds. Okay, so who's who's doing that census? Who's doing it? What is that the new york times number one ranked unregistered best-seller? Sure. They don't do one of those Sure, why not? What is it a fucking e-book sales? No, it's the 90s

I don't know. I don't know how you quantify it, but it is a very huge book And here's the part where I should probably just come clean on a little bit of something And that is I don't know a ton about bill cooper Does anybody yeah, I am going to learn a lot more of him in the future But as at press time, I don't fucking know a whole lot about him I I know some of his beliefs I know a lot of it matches up with alex and then there's a lot of stuff that alex pupus and Tries to be like no absolutely like the ufo stuff. Yeah, yeah into that

But even though secretly he's super into that but bill was into that now granted It seems over the course of his career that he pivoted more towards the militia and uh, Patriot type stuff as time went on at the expense of his interest in ufos. All right, but so there are question But also alex is a huge fan of like coast to coast and george nori and stuff like that And they talk about ghosts and aliens all day long, so it can't be a turnoff for him. Anyway, that's my point He's like i'm sure i'm positive alex loved his show when did alex So this dude died in 2001

November 2001 he got killed by the died in november 2001 and he's killed by the police Well to be fair he shot to a cop in the head twice and then killed by the police Because he'd been living on the lamb because he refused to pay his taxes and was charged with bank fraud And the police were like we're not gonna fucking fulfill that warrant because we're afraid of an armed standoff Right, so the police they decided to try and lure him out of his house with a uh, uh, loud car candy No, a loud car that he would come and like tell people to be quiet right that sort of thing Because they wanted to lure him away from his house because they knew he had weapons caches there So they did that and as soon as wily coyote running the uh swat team at the time

They only did this because he had uh, they'd gotten reports that he'd been threatening local residents with weapons Yeah, just his being around as a threat. They'd gotten some complaints like well We got to finally go through with this warrant. So they do this he shows up at the car They announced themselves as police officers. Yeah, and uh, he starts shooting at them Right, and so they end up killing him. Okay, all right Which is not the best way for things to go down But he had made it very clear that he didn't believe that he needed to be arrested for the uh, Tax evasion and bank fraud of course and that he capital letters and that he was totally right in all that

Of course he is he has a gun and he had said that he's not going to be taken alive So he had already made it clear And in an email to a friend not too long before it all went down He had said, uh, i'm gonna take as many down with me as I can So they had every reason to suspect this is probably what's gonna happen And the idea of letting him get to his house or something like that is a real no-no for the police So i'm not i'll i never like it when the police kill anybody right i kind of get it if you shoot a cop twice in the head You're who survived as I understand. Oh, that's nice. Thank you. But still if you do that makes the story way better for me

Yeah, yeah, it's uh, so anyway that happened in november 2001 right right right right see the way that you described his radio career It seemed more like he had died of natural causes because he was a precursor to alex jones, but apparently he was just like A sovereign citizen like a regular sovereign. Did he still work on the radio? I mean, I There's no way you can keep your job With a warrant on you for tax evasion. You can if you're doing like shortwave and And live on the lam. Well, he wasn't living on the lam so much as he was in a uneasy truce with the police

Right, right. It turns like they think this is going to be too much trouble to execute the warrant and it's just a financial crime Yeah, so until he's a danger to people around there then it almost doesn't make sense. So, oh, okay now alternate Alternate theory. Okay. All right. He too predicted the 9-11 attacks. He did but he got it right on He said almost the same thing as alex So the government realized that in order to prop alex up who was an Operative of the cia and still is and has always been under government control his controlled opposition That's why he's too nice to israel according to stormfront. The reason that they left alex alive Was to take over

No, bill cooper spot. I understand. I killed bill cooper. I understand two months after 9 11 dad I understand where you're going with this, but I that's just dumb Timeline matches up. I think the reality is both of them could have continued to exist doing whatever the Alex killed bill cooper No, but some people have suggested that sort of thing which is just that that sort of unhinged Untethered criticism of alex that I resent so much. Right. Right. There are people who are like, yeah He's part of the system and he he had them take out bill cooper. So he could rise more or less You know, I was being extremely facetious

I should have assumed that that conspiracy theory was alive and well There are there are some people who put that forth which is really dumb So the reason that i'm bringing bill cooper into this and admittedly like I said, I don't know a ton about him I'm excited to learn more about him as as we go along because Spoiler alert the entire archive of his radio show is available online. I was so he might become another wacky wednesday character I was just about to ask and now I'm very excited for bill cooper and because all of his shows are online We can know that on june 28th 2001 A month before alex predicted 9 11 on his show bill cooper

Bill cooper went on his show hour of the time The whole thing is a fraud! After the anniversary Also, I don't know how it was the rights to play kiss from a rose, but uh, I'm gonna leave that aside for a second I'm short-willed Of the Oklahoma City bombing We were bombarded with anti-patriot anti-malaysia anti Constitute finality that people believe in the constitution for the united states of america

anti-american propaganda And then when the execution of timothy mcvay occurred once again prior to And uh immediately following The same thing occurred again and this word extremist was used over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again How many times and now we're being bombarded with messages that osama bin laden is planning to attack the united states of america and Israel

And i'm telling you be prepared for a major attack But it won't be osama bin laden It will be those behind the new world order. Oh once again Want to take The guns and the freedom away from the american people because we're the only ones left in the world who can oppose The destruction of freedom in the world And the implementation of a one-world totalitarian socialist government and that is the goal

So you have basically here him predicting much more specifically And way better. Yeah more specifically and also preemptively laying out the inside job false flag narrative Already a month before alex's supposed prediction new theory. Yeah alex got his hands on the Sumerian ritual to steal a man's brain immediately after this episode he led bill cooper out into the forest Said the ancient rites looked directly into his eyes and sucked out of his his soul, right? And that's why after 9 11 he lost his mind

and The whole thing makes perfect sense spoiler alert after 9 11 bill cooper didn't lose his mind necessarily He lost a lot his actions in terms of like that standout standoff with the police totally consistent very much So he's had several standouts It's um, it's right on character You don't want to say that a man is comfortable with a mexican standoff by experience, but he sounds like he would be Yeah, so a little bit later in that same june 28th 2001 episode you'll hear bill lay out almost entirely what alex's 9 11 narrative will end up being

And you'll hear a little bit of a similar theme to alex's Month later prediction that he makes about 9 11 Hitler could not have ever come to power absolute power in germany without the right stag fire Hitler was a socialist. He understood social illusion. He understood social engineering. He knew How to get the support of the german people and he did it by burning down the right stag The right stag was Well in our country it would be the capital building that contains the senate and the house of representatives So somebody were to go and burn down the capital building today

They would use that as an excuse as hitler did To round up all of the enemies Of the new world order Which would be me and most of you listening Doesn't the name throw us into prison or execute us? Declare martial law and come to absolute and total power in this country I Wonder what osama bin laden's targets are supposed to be and if they don't you know if this doesn't materialize in the next two

or three weeks it will eventually materialize because They haven't succeeded in getting the guns out of the hands of the american people Nor have they succeeded in taking our freedoms away In fact, there's been a great awakening in this country and a big backlash against these marxists communist puke face lying subversive nazi jack booted gestapo fugs That is gaining momentum So you can where's line a lot? He's he did somebody steal his

Is the source too might have but you can see a little bit of alex even there like you can see a little bit of Like minus a bit of the uh Bombast sure or explosive showmanship or whatever you want to call it You can see the like calling these people jack booted You know there's a there's a little bit of that and then the the theme of They're doing these terrorist attacks in order to You know bring in taking our guns away. Yeah that that sort of thing is just so central and even the idea that like this Anti new world order movement is gaining traction and that's why they're gonna have to do this

In order to cut it off at the pass right or whatever that's so central to alex's Version of things that it's almost impossible to imagine that he didn't listen to this episode And then a month later crib it a little bit. Yeah. Yeah That is kind of my big theory in terms of uh these these two instances from 2001 right of very paranoid man Uh quote unquote predicting 9 11. Okay, so two things one I don't like that you've turned everything that I believed alex jones to be into a lie because even his Fucking origin stories are stolen now total every one of them. Oh, yeah, he's dead to me every every little feather in his cap is pretty much Yeah, there's there's uh

There's some lie behind everything you fucking find it you fucking find though you have totally and completely dismantled this man's mythology Somewhat and I'd also like to give a shout out to uh listener and uh buddy prop do who uh It was very helpful in uh, you know getting into a little bit of this stuff And it would not be right if me to talk about a lot of this without giving a shout out. Fuck. Yeah. Good work, man Yeah, uh the other things One I don't like that. He had trouble reading constitutionalist. That doesn't seem like a difficult word to read I think it was I think that was for a dramatic effect. I don't think so. I think that was struggling to read All right, we agree to disagree and two he sounds super good at his job. He is reasonable as fuck

I was listening to him and I was like All right, there's a I think I think if we'd listen to a lot more episodes you'd have less of that See now I want to find out if he's right about everything. He's not he is he's secretly right about everything I I can say no, uh He's not but there is an interesting trend that goes through a lot of episodes of his show where callers call in and ask him About something and he'll push back on them and sort of the reverse way that alex does Which ends up being one of his chief complaints about alex jones later on

Which is the idea that alex just listens to rumor and reports it his truth So he ends like on his show where someone calls in. Yeah, let's say someone calls in and says that Tennessee department of transportation is out on the streets or something like that He's not going to believe them whereas alex will then turn that into one of his stories So I don't believe that bill cooper knows a lot or is right about things. What if he is? No, okay fine, but He does have more of a measured approach to Broadcasting at least right which is why he was never going to become as successful as alex probably not and he was an older man

Already, you know, there's there's other reasons why alex would be the fact that he hadn't paid his taxes for a bunch of years That does hurt your abilities to syndicate probably. I would assume there's a There's active warrants out for arrest. You probably can't go down to uh kjfk or k lbj and start broadcasting I'm telling you give me a job on your dude We're gonna have to we're gonna have to garnish your wages before you start and also turn you over to the cops We shouldn't be having this interview right now He would have been sell gold. He would have been a perfect other than alex person for ted anderson to get But I think based on the

Sort of just the reality of who he is and how like well, you're wanted. I don't think you can I don't think you could do that if you're dead now. I'm mad because he's like an even more under He's the number one most best-selling underground author. He's even more badass than alex is So there's a little bit of a beef between alex jones and bill cooper Yeah, it exists within the patriot militia worlds and all of their listeners know that So this is really Okay. All right. All right. This is drake. Uh, this is drake cognac and this is more what I want to talk about Because as I said repeatedly, I don't have a good grasp on bill cooper

But I do have a grasp on alex jones and it's interesting to see this figure come into his world in such a demonstrable alex is wrong kind of way In the same way in the sense that like the first part is it looks pretty clear that alex Number one has to be a huge fan of his rate of the hour of the time. Yeah second He almost certainly stole that 9 11 prediction. Right now at some point along the line This has to be after bill cooper was dead, but i'm not sure exactly the year alex gets a call about bill asking about What do you think about bill cooper?

Let me let me ask you on that. What what did you think of bill cooper? Well bill cooper was an alcoholic and I didn't ever try to attack him He got mad because the network put me on at night and he thought I'd really really never heard his show because I didn't listen A lot of for him. I was busy. Hmm, but I've seen his book. It was all about flying saucers So I didn't finish it somebody giving it to me an axis tv like a 96 And then he really started attacking me in 98 because he was an egomaniac and you know I'm not flying saucers in the ocean and and aliens and all this stuff and I've tried to never attack him But people resurrected old tapes. He edited of me and stuff and

So, okay. All right now. I'm interested. Well the alien stuff is fair criticism or whatever I mean, I haven't read all all of his book or any To know too much but from what I understand he believes that eisenhower met with aliens and agreed to uh, let them kidnap people And stuff like that. Yeah, there's in a future rama episode and that sounds right So he's in that sort of uh camp and so alex is not too far off in terms of being like guy was a little bit nuts Yeah, that might be fair. We haven't listened to a lot of him He has sounded correct on everything so far the editing clips together thing is in reference to bill cooper after Uh, the y2k episode of alex jones' show

Uh cut together some instances of alex being very out of line on y2k Which we covered on I think our second episode. Yeah, alex's behavior. Yeah, and alex takes great issue with the fact that bill cooper Did uh, like episodes of his own show hour of the time about how fucked up alex's behavior on y2k Holy shit. Yeah, wait. Wait, so hold on So somehow will cooper is both the underlying inspiration for alex jones his progenitor if you will And yet at the same time hours too Yeah, it is weird that way, isn't it? That is bananas within the seat of his creation. So was the seat of his destruction dad It is interesting my my working theory on it is that alex hero worshiped

Bill cooper to a great degree in terms of his position in the patriot community His his militia stuff. He sought to become uh bill but greater or something like that Then they started to interact in some way and it went bad And bill didn't like alex never saw through his shit never made alex furious. That's my theory. So this there's more to this call though I just feel sorry for bill and he really let him set him up and you know ran out there and and uh, you know helped him killing And uh, it's just a big distraction, sir. I don't talk about flying saucers and All that stuff man. I'm sorry and uh, I Mean it's all like an ego thing like it's two football teams and who's for who I'm sorry for bill

But anybody I mean he was a liar though You know, uh, one time I had him on the radio and he was cussing and I delayed him once Then I said, please don't cuss again. I'm delaying again. And I said, okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye And and then he went around saying he never cussed the guy cussed on air. He cussed everybody He was yelling at the board op going you effing little idiot You know, I told you to call this number to heaven have me on And then he gets and then he says that he didn't you know, the guy's he was a pathetic drunk And I don't like attacking people. But if you really want to know that's it

Is that your answer you like that answer You know that uh, I believe you know, I mean, I know you're putting out a lot of truth out there And I'm not the I'll say the best look man some dead drunk And I'd drink a few beers too But the point is he would get falling down drunk Okay And I was nice. He said the irs was after me. He did help I call him up and go Hey, this is Alex Jones. I'd like to interview you get some help for the irs

And he goes, I've heard you you little sh i t You don't know as much as I do and I said, well, I'd like to have you want to help you out with the irs I mean, that's what I get for helping him What a good is him doing that and and then and then and then you call me Seven years after he's dead and ask me about him. It isn't about bill cooper Okay, it's about north com the new world order get our head screwed on straight deal with the issues I ask callers to call in and talk about what we're going to do about what's coming down on us Not a dead alcoholic crazy person

So that should give you some sort of uh Indication of how triggered alex is when anybody even just brings up the name bill cooper alex's daddy issues are Intense varied and all across the board, but don't you find that interesting like the caller just asked What do you think of bill cooper? Dan the grand prix But he launches into that with no help from the caller the color isn't like I love bill cooper or anything like that And even halfway through the caller is like alex. I believe you I trust you, you know, like he's saying oh, that's interesting I'm on your side and alex is still defensive about it

He hates it when anybody brings up bill cooper and the reason for that Is alex is fucking totally lying Absolutely categorically Totally lying bill cooper has been on alex jones's show exactly one time in 1998 So that's before the y2k stuff. Yeah, and when he was on it did not go the way alex says it did Absolutely not there is no indication that he cusses at all He was on the radio for over 40 minutes not including commercial breaks So he's probably on an entire hour of alex's show in 98 which might have been his whole show back then quite frankly

I don't know how long he was broadcasting back. Yeah, but here is how the interview starts. No shit. You've got the interview I'm so fucking excited. Oh mr. Cooper Oh Yeah, that's one of my friends just called in he's got an apache over his house with camera pods and infrared Taking film we're gonna play that on our tv shows. It's just wonderful. We get followed around by unmarked police cars Openly taking 35 millimeter photograph services. That's just wonderful, isn't it? So you see already this is how he introduces me. He says how's it going bill like almost to give a sense of familiarity

Friendliness and then he immediately starts launching into a way of trying to impress bill Talking about how one of his callers who had just called in uh, it has a black helicopter over his house I'm just like you daddy. There's a sense of that Well, it's uh, it's just that one other manifestation of the Nazi Gestapo police state which is taken over this country That's it Again, I mean I get on this program six days a week and I know how you feel when I talk to you this week And I'm 24 years old. I'm gonna just say screw it

Because you got these people crammed cheeseburgers in their mouth and they love it I Doesn't ever anger you Well, of course it does what angers me most is the stupidity of the vast herd of american sheeple out there So also bill cooper is one of the people who's most uh, uh noted for popularizing the term sheeple So we've got him to thank for him. Um, but you see there like it seems like the person who's more unhinged is alex He's screaming about how mad he is and then there's a long pause and he's like, don't you ever get mad almost As a way of like trying to find the common bond come on man trying to find that uh, that uh, first means of connection

Uh, they think they know something and they don't even know what planet they're on to tell you the truth No, they don't simple things like private banks print the money and enslave everyone simple things like clinton's a transnational agent Well, your book uh, Behold a Pale Horse is well known to almost everybody that has Any know how on any of these subjects Um, you wrote that 1988 didn't you sir? So he's already plugging the book that he's claimed he hasn't read and barely knows anything about it's stupid It's about ufos. Yeah, but he's saying anyone who knows anything knows about this book

So he's already If you look at the actual document here, he's very clearly Ex a hundred percent lying about this interaction So he asked bill it was written in 1988 which would have been 10 years prior to this interview and alexa's Fact's a little wrong there Well, actually I wrote it over a period of years back beginning in the early 80s and continuing up Into about 88. I finished it. I believe in 89

And I may have added a couple of things in 90 and then it was published in december of 1990 december of 1990 How many copies it out? Oh, I love you I have no idea it's been the number one underground bestseller of all time with no advertising whatsoever um, and uh People sell it on the street corners in new york city have my baby noble I had to take it off the shelf in their new york city bookstore because it's by their own admission It's the most stolen book in their inventory

The most stolen book in their inventory. Yeah, a lot of people've got tons of them around here Why don't you tell people sir just a basically an overview of what behold a pale horse? Uh tells the public and now it's even more incredible that so much of what you've written has come through in the last eight years So he's He's giving him prophetic status here again all these things you wrote about in this book that i'm later going to pretend I didn't read yeah have come true This interview to me knowing alex as intimately as I do from his work I hear an insecure alex. Oh, yeah

I hear in alex who in 98 wasn't the alex of you know the mid to late 2000s, you know like he's not the same broadcaster with the same status And he knows that bill cooper in the worlds that he wants to be a part of and fancies himself a part of is a hero in that world Yeah, he is totally Like the way he's asking these questions and you heard it twice Yeah, when when bill said the date his book came out. He's like december 1990 almost Contemplative reflective There's a sense of reverence to like

Minuscule details for sure and I think it's his way of covering not really knowing how to interview this guy that he likes a lot Yeah, that's the sense that I get I it's exactly like And it's exactly like so many of the times we see alex's daddy issues show up like with the john birch society guy Like when he's talking to him, it's like this. Oh, I'll give you whatever you want Please please just give me some sort of fucking Approval there are remnants of that of approval and you could make the argument that Um like alex in the future from that clip with his the caller who asked about bill cooper You could you could look listen to that and you could say

Well, that's not alex being insecure and reverent That's him being uncomfortable talking to him because he has him there for pity sure But that doesn't track with the way he's Louding him the way he's saying that your book all these things have been proven true in the last eight years keeps calling him sir Thank you for being here. Um Just all of this I guess he's he's supplicated. Mm-hmm for sure Yeah, so we're not going to listen to much more of the interview itself because it's 40 minutes And it's mostly the two of them agreeing and more of that

You know what i'm saying? Yeah It doesn't serve our purposes too much to go over that interview if anyone wants you can find it on youtube You can find the whole thing a what what I heard from bill which was interesting based on What we know about them now or what you've told me about them is that he is like giving those stock responses to Like he doesn't believe that there's a black hawk helicopter or an Apache helicopter. He doesn't give a fuck He's just like yeah, see that's another example of government gone wild. Maybe there is maybe there isn't yeah, exactly

I can't I can't be a part of uh reinforcing this But I don't think that even comes from a place of distrusting alex. I think he has no idea who alex is exactly I think that that's probably and I think you just hear a guy who's doing a radio interview Yeah, and he's playing his role too that guy knows what's up. He knows why he's there Yeah, so he doesn't swear doesn't get kicked off the air at all and in fact here is the end of the interview where alex Is perfused with his thanks Well, sir, I really go there. They're gonna be absolutely amazed Well, I've been there several times and it is a lot of good information people will see and I

I do respect you and and I uh I certainly hope that the feds do back down Because I know that once a revolution does start in this country and we've had a couple of them That's not going to be a pretty one And that's it the whole thing starts. I know that I'm on the list So at the the beginning of that he was talking about bill's website Yeah, I'll add a plug for the website and actually even before that I cut that clip terribly right before that alex was asking him to stay over another break

So the idea of him kicking him off the air isn't true They'd already run over the time allotted for their interview and he was asking him to stick around later Right and bill said I'll stick around but I've got to plug my website daddy I know you only get to stay for the weekend, but can't you stay one more day? So alex's claims from that uh discussion with the caller about bill don't track with reality at all They absolutely don't he didn't start swearing alex didn't kick him off the air. None of that is true That is just alex lying about someone who can't defend themselves now because they're dead That is a hundred percent is what I believe. I was really hoping for a repeat of the don de grand prix

Oh, how do you feel about bill cooper? Ah, he's dead now Okay. All right. Well, then you have a good time. Good work. Yep. Good work alex so interestingly September 11th happens uh and both of these gentlemen have put out their words which one The 2001. Oh, okay the 2001 one. So bill cooper ends up dying in november 2001 but before he dies on the 26th of september 2001 He puts out an episode of hour of the time titled alex jones liar

Jesus, this is cool. Here is the first quote. I am stoked that You're listening to the hour of the time. I'm william cooper. Good evening folks Before we get started I have to clear up a little little discrepancy here Apparently the other night or within the last week Because I've been getting a lot of email about this and they even received one telephone call Apparently somebody called the alex jones Broadcast

And asked them and asked him why I didn't have me on the air or asked him something about me Alex jones said he had had me on the air Once before several years ago And had to cut me off the air because of the foul language that I used So on the air tonight, I'm going to tell you alex jones You are a bold faced miserable stinking little coward liar Now let me say that again so there's no mistake about it You can all tell alex jones that I said this and I suspect he's listening because he does

alex jones, you are a bold faced stinking rotten little coward liar get um Feels good. Oh feels good to hear man Wow There's a piece of this that I kind of decided to do this episode partially because of alex's like weird 9 11 stuff last week Yeah, uh wanting to get into the prediction, but then I also really wanted to just Take it take a sort of um I don't know. It's almost a walk a little bit. Yeah for an episode of just like we get to end with bill cooper

Telling alex jones. He's a big piece of shit liar. He go fuck himself. I am a huge fan of uh Interrupting everything and especially you uh, but fuck this is fascinating. I want to listen to all of this shit Yeah, no, I know I thought I was I thought I was being uh Very jokey whenever I said that he both was the precursor for alex jones and show in ours But it is really right on well. He was 20 years ago He was kicking ass doing what we're doing now and nobody's had the balls since I hope that we get a review on itunes. It says not since bill cooper has anyone taken alex down so hard But it's not like every episode of this show was about exposing the bullshit of these people

Like he has one episode here from the 13th of september atomic bomb next. I want to listen to that Let's just play that now and then uh chemical and biological attack from october 9th So like that one's about syria There's a lot of like Most of his show it does appear that most of it is crazy conspiratorial uh nonsense Okay, but here's a new game just read off the titles and I will try and make a real world corollary So he sounds right. All right here from uh, september 11th new york attack, uh, 9 11 number 8 He did 10 episodes about it

I'm gonna guess that he nailed that one probably that was the 8th attack on new york. Okay. Yeah here Let's try a better one. All right. Let's try this one. Okay attack of the ninja owls from the 14th of february 2001 Now this pre sages the owls of ghoul The movie where the guardians. Yeah, the guardians of uh, whatever it is So the guardians the legend of the owls of ghoul 11 for 11. Okay So uh, look I think I want to make this abundantly clear and I think I have already I don't know a ton about bill cooper and so nothing that I'm saying should in any way be interpreted as me signing off on

Anything he believes everything I say should be said that I think bill cooper has been right about everything I'm certain that if I listen to a ton more of these episodes I would find tons of problems and probably incredibly latent anti-semitism Or overt I was gonna say overt seems almost a lock. I would and probably really scary Dangerous patriot type rhetoric. I am certain of that. Yeah in the same breath. I can say I'm interested in his interaction and intersection With the world that we cover vis-a-vis alex jones being that he's clearly his inspiration And clearly it didn't work out for alex and that's pretty funny. When did carry start broadcasting? Kerry Cassidy. Yeah, it's hard to tell her uh, youtube channel probably starred in like 2010

But I think project cam lot existed before that in some form. They're like a message board Uh, do you mean that it started in november 2001 when the soul of bill cooper? a Was was instead transported into the body of carry. Cassidy. Kerry. Cassidy was still trying to get killed It's made back then bill cooper is the progenitor of the alex jones show our show and project cam lot Kerry Cassidy is a fan of alex jones. God damn it. What is his theme song because if it's william william william. All right, you can hear his theme song. Okay That's it, it's basically that it's like an air raid siren

Which I actually I think is probably I mean it's thematically right on it feels right Yeah, no, I'm but i'm also glad we don't have a theme song and just come into a to a drop I don't want to get too into the weeds with this because like I said, I do have some very strong reasons to suspect That bill cooper is a dangerous lunatic and if only the fact that he shot a cop isn't enough for you That's that's a good indication. That's a good indication. There are a few strong sides There's a red flag of some kind. I mean like from I mean like His work and his yeah, but I just don't know enough about it to be conversant in it Right, right. So this is one of these weird like I told you before we started the show

This is a weird place for me to be in because we're covering a topic that I admittedly don't have a good handle on Yeah, like I only know as much as I know and it's The world of bill cooper is a big world. I know it's a huge world And I only have a Hold on a tiny piece of it. And so I I feel out of my depth and very insecure But this is this is more of like a teaser episode for our next time. Ewhimey wednesday Yeah, we go and really dig into bill cooper and it's weird because this is gonna happen I'm gonna text you all the time

I want to know all about bill cooper and about how he was fucking right about everything dead We're gonna explore him more. I'm I'm absolutely certain of that But the other thing too is that uh, like it's weird that we're doing this on a monday episode but I should say that the Uh, 2009 stuff is one of the big reasons in addition to last week alex rebring up 9 11 and all that shit The 2009 stuff is hit a snag. There's a boring episode. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah So, um bill has his episode that he put out about alex jones being a liar And we're not nearly done listening to him call alex jones a liar. Oh, yeah

Here's another clip where he does and he actually makes a very good criticism of alex in terms of him being a sensationalist I was only on the alex jones show one time Was years ago when I didn't know who he was When I didn't realize what a liar and a coward and a sensationalist bullshit artist that he is Bill's 12 for 12. He was on one little FM station down in texas. He wasn't on all the stuff that he's on now

And I agreed to be on his broadcast. That's when I was doing guest appearances on broadcast years ago I was not cut off. I did not use any kind of foul language whatsoever He treated me very well Tracks and I stayed on for the whole show Totally true. Some of you in texas Know that that's true because you heard the broadcast and you take it Later when I found out who alex jones was and what he was doing to the truth And how what a cowardly liar and sensationalist he really is

This is really satisfying on a lot of levels after that. I have always refused to appear on his broadcast Absolutely refused to lend him any credibility whatsoever By appearing on his broadcast And that made him very angry I believe all of that. Wow, that's 100 true because the alex is a sensationalist Every part of that is 100% true. Yeah, absolutely And I totally believe that alex kept contacting me like of course to come back on the show And he's like I I don't I don't think I want to be involved with you

I look like I said bill cooper probably wrong about just about everything But I do believe him when he says alex wanted me to come back on and I said no Well, if you deny alex three times before the cock crows, he insists that you set a bunch of profanity on his show That that has always been written I think that you can get away with appearing on shows that you don't support a little bit Like I have a real line with that, you know that that sort of idea because I don't think you should crucify somebody From appearing on a show that asked them to be on that you don't like No, your episode of punked was weird. I got that was weird. That was weird when I made justin timberlake cry

The only reference I have for punked But like the reason I'm thinking about this is like there's tons and tons of guests of alex jones's show Who have been guests on red ice radio red ice tv? Does an outright white nationalist white supremacist show I do think that probably some of them didn't know what it was And got asked to come on as like a It's a show. There's some listeners. Everybody's gotta get a everybody's gotta get a you know, you gotta fill your calendar

I need to fill my calendar. My calendar is empty if anybody's listening who can help on my calendar You can blow it every every now and again. I think I think you could probably be like I shouldn't have done that We're not gonna do it again Right, I think bill cooper is probably in that sort of realm. He went on alex's show later realized like ah, shit I shouldn't have done that. Well, can't redo the past. Yeah. Yeah. Now spoiler alert. John Rappaport's been on red ice four times Oh, boy. He knows what they are doing. Oh, yeah You don't show up on a show four times and not know the character of the show Listen, you hang up a picture if you're able to learn the character of a fucking show. I don't I'm not gonna hold it against him

Maybe he's just him. I'm just saying I think he might be dead I'm just saying I think he's been dead for 15 years dead inside So I believe all that I think that bill is probably telling the truth about The idea that alex wanted to back on said no and I do think that there's nothing Nothing terrible about it. So based on based on what we know of alex and how he reacts to situations Exactly what exactly like what bill cooper describes alex is exacting like is acting like everything that bill cooper says was 100 percent correct. It feels bill cooper is saying all the things that we would have Just listening to alex shit talk him. I would have re I've reverse engineered like oh, yeah

So he liked him and then someone burned him and then they decided that and alex created this line He can't defend himself now. Yeah. Yeah, and bill cooper and it turns out From one of the clips we're going to hear right at the end of this thing here One of bill's callers calls in and says that uh info wars used to have the video up of that interview And they took it down. It's implied that at some point it got taken down Oh, man So there is a decent chance that alex was trying to bury this part of like because My theory that bill cooper is right about everything is

Your theory your theory can only go so far as he's right about alex. Yes, that doesn't mean that he's right about everything Everything. Nope. That is a logical fallacy. No, here's the way it works. You're right about alex So I assume you're right about everything. God. No, seriously. No, you should have seen what I ate yesterday. Oh boy God damn so dumb can of chili. Anyway It was not right shouldn't have done it I'll tell you who's never eaten a can of chili bill fucking cooper untrue. I'm certainly I'm certainly excited a lot of Never eaten a can of chili. Listen. He makes his chili homemade Grows it in his backyard. It's a long time

So alex in his talk with the caller where he's lying about bill He says that bill edited up videos of me, which I've already explained to you was about the y2k stuff And in bill's show where he's calling alex jones a liar talking shit on him. He brings up Why he did that? I've also revealed him for the lying sensationalist bullshit artist that he is You say by every once in a while bringing to your attention The lies and the deceit and the rumors that he spreads over the airwaves

that are not good For any of us and they're not good for the nation. How about they are especially not good for militia and patriots So I'm gonna give you a half point being broadcast. He ever did was on New Year's Eve the year 2000 the new year's eve

1999 bringing in the year 2000 And here which he went completely out of his mind and claimed That russia had launched Intercontinental ballistic missiles with multiple warheads after united states of america and actually Panicked millions of people who were putting their children and their belongings in their cars and heads heading for the hills So right there. I want to pause really quick. He has more to say but I think it's really important to point out that

What bill is taking issue with and why he was so personally offended by this is too prompt one It's alex has no respect for the truth. He's basing his operation And his behavior and his reportage entirely on rumors and conjecture and hearsay Yeah, the second which I think is more important is that bill recognizes that the things alex says have an effect on the people Who hear them he's taking very Strong issue with the idea that alex said these things people heard them and gotten to a panic and headed for the hills That's part of his negative consequence that he's describing of alex's actions And I think that's super important that who the fuck is bill cooper

I need to know way more about it. It is interesting that he recognizes the responsibility of someone in a position like his or like alex's That is don't get people into a place Uh of a tizzy unnecessarily or something like that because there's consequences for the people who hear your lies Of course, and that's that's an important human piece of this. They often gets buried Yeah, no, it's I think we try and bring it up But it often gets buried in terms of the except for whenever people talk about alex vis-a-vis getting sandy hook families harassed and stuff like that right here those consequences then but The human element of it is so, uh

It it's not ignored, but it's it's very rarely made a big part of the problem and it is yeah Bill is fascinating. It sounds like he's got it's got a great radio voice too And he sounds a little bit like he's got alex jones's ideology and dan rather's voice. It's it's like He's so calming in the way that he's saying that everybody is going to try and kill you Yeah, it is it is a little incongruous and it's unlike david night in that david night is just boring Yeah, bill's not boring. No bill is not boring bill is soothing. He's just like and they're coming to murder you and your family This is the news on the this is the hour of the time. Yeah, like Yeah, I mean it does it does go to show that like, uh being not boring is is much different than having a boring delivery

It's not always a one-to-one. Yeah, david night could be interesting even with his fucking terrible delivery I don't think that could get well soon david Now there's lots of things that can be said about me. Nobody needs to lie about me Sometimes I am irritating Sometimes I absolutely will not suffer fools and am just as rude as I can be I did a donkey Nobody has to lie about me alex jones So I suggest that the next time somebody calls your broadcast and asks them about me you tell the truth There's lots of truth that you can tell about me

But don't ever lie on me, buddy Because I'll chop you off at your ankles I will chew you up. I will spit you out for the lying stinking rotten little coward that you are I think he hits a lot of the main points. Yeah, I'm gonna give him a slight Look just some studio notes Uh-huh You can leave the cutting the ankles part out. Hey, you were doing great. You were doing great It is a little bit weak. He already said bullshaters. We clearly cuss on his own show

So like cutting you off at the ankles is kind of like it's ungratifying as a threat. Yeah, exactly I don't know. Yeah, you're either either jump the threat way up or just let the threat go. You don't need it Yeah, um, so I mean it's a little bit redundant to if I were giving other studio notes the idea of like Well, you just keep saying he's a liar. I mean that it can never be said enough quite frankly. He is lying. Yeah, so What's interesting to me is that call that we heard from alex Uh talking to the caller uh about bill cooper. Yeah, that was from like 2008 2009. Yeah Bill was seven. Yeah seven or eight years and alex is still in september of 2001 Bill put out this episode responding to a caller calling into alex's show and alex responding the exact same way

Yeah, so we do know that at least from 2001 onward. That's been alex's sort of Rewriting of the interview that they did which is interesting holds a fucking grudge man. Because that because the 2008 or 2009 area was like Dude, you feel that fresh those wounds are fresh But I think it's because it highlights something that's so important about his own self mythology That he's a giant fraud and he knows it. Yes. Yeah And then also that he is a coward bill cooper and I don't mean to say that bill is admirable or anything in like No, I mean, but he is he is someone who clearly was willing to stand on

Whatever principles no matter how dumb or uh backward they were Right, he shot a fucking cop and got killed Rather than own up to the fact that he's got to pay taxes like that's not a good thing But if you look at a propagandist like an anti-tax propagandist, yeah, if you're going that far You have your principle. Yeah, you have the integrity good or bad of whatever it is You you you present yourself as believing in and with alex He has none of that every time that we have talked about alex waffling and changing his position and all of those things And we've said

According to your own principles. You should be against this. Yeah bill cooper would Just be against it. Mm-hmm Like it seems like bill cooper did not give a fuck about anything other than believing that the government was coming to kill And aliens are somehow in play. Yeah, it seems more like bill cooper was not so much ideologically Consistent as he was fucking crazy He was crazy consistent and consistent to the crazy and consistently crazy. Yeah, it does appear that way again Not being an expert on him. Uh, it's hard for me to say with too much certainty, but the sense that you get Um

Is that is that there is there is a a through line through right and he wasn't deviating that from that for a fucking second And that he did the clip show As opposed to just doing the beef So that's the thing that gets me as far as as far as the con man non con man level The con men recognize that the beef is fine. Yeah, you know, but they don't do specifics about each other They don't say i'm gonna do a clip show where I prove you wrong not generally even when alex was doing the Well, when alex was shitting all over the bed doing the glenn beck expose. Yeah, he still didn't have anything Nope, but bill fucking did it man

He went straight for the con man's balls by using his own words against him And another aspect too is that like he sells books and and all that stuff But at least it's it episodes that I've listened to and I've listened to a number of them not nearly enough But I've listened to a number of them and he doesn't ask for money Really like the con isn't there. Yeah in terms of bill and there's even a Call that I heard where this guy was talking about how he doesn't have a lot of money But when he does he's gonna send bill some so he can Have all the airtime that he needs that sort of thing and bill's responses to laugh at him like not meanly, but just like

All right. Well, thank you. That's nice of you or something like that It doesn't seem like he's motivated by the same like granted He is a con man in terms of like getting you to believe things that aren't true for his own enrichment But he doesn't seem to be primarily motivated. I want to know more about bill cooper Yeah, this dude is a might have been a mistake of an episode dude as much as I think it opens up hell No, it might open up way too big of a vista, you know, like I think that the horizon is too large for us What's the name of this show? It's called hour of the time. All right. Well, we did uh, we did this podcast about alex jones We finished and it was knowledge fight. All right, so now we just moved to bill cooper and it's

The week of the nows it's simple bill cooper legitimately rebranding dan No bill cooper only interests me really in as much as he is sort of a prototype of uh, and a precursor to alex And someone who seems to believed it much more than alex and alex was able to use A lot of what bill stood for and a lot of the world that bill was in right as the uh, the window dressing and camouflage For him to sell ted anderson's gold and all the other scams that he's been pulling over the years Yeah, the thing that is interesting from that approach and I do want to cover him more Right, but less as like let's just talk bill cooper for a bit. No, of course I want I understand but I wanted the audience to know I'm interested in learning a ton about him, but

Only to enrich our understanding of early alex jones Right because his shows from 98 are available alex's aren't like a lot of that stuff You can't find on the internet and man. I've been trying to track down vhs Yeah, a lot of emails have been returned. Uh, nope. No idea So I can't find these early days alex jones episodes. Yeah super easily. There's very few Uh resources to find them and if anybody out there has any tips, please let me know But like this does give a window into like what that world was like on a day-to-day basis Right this radio show that clearly alex had to have been listening to right like what it is that formed him into what he would become

Well, the the thing that I think bill cooper makes abundantly clear is the logical endpoint for a alex jones style propagandist who actually believes what they're saying The logical endpoint for an alex jones that believes what he's saying is to be murdered by the cops Like that's the reality of it simply by his continued existence We can surmise that alex jones doesn't believe a goddamn thing that he's saying because we have a case study in somebody Who does believe what they're saying? Fucking getting

I'm gonna be killing himself by cop I'm gonna push back on that just a tiny bit because it didn't have to go that way Of course he did no because bill could have continued doing exactly what he was doing if he wasn't threatening locals With guns and stuff like that. It wasn't just his presence that threatened them. He was going around and harassing people And alex doesn't do that. I don't know look fair fair fair point But also even if alex were doing that he doesn't have an outstanding warrant for bank fraud and tax evasion that the cops could act on It would have to be a new uh Uh motion for them to arrest him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah bill cooper didn't have to commit suicide by cop

He didn't have to go that route. It's not the logical endpoint of A propagandist like this who believes the things they do It's a logical endpoint of a propagandist who believes this sort of stuff and also likes to threaten people with guns fair That's the that's the fair point. I don't want to give him any credence for his death That'd be like it being like well We are saying that it's like well you believed it enough to get there. Yeah, that part's true. Yeah, but what? Really precipitated it is him being a fucking asshole. Uh, right and also So

Shooting the cops he could have just he could have gone peacefully right, but that's uh, But alex's narrative all the time is like if the cops come for your guns you need to be prepared to kill the cops We just saw that on a A present day episode. Yeah, he does believe that And it's also stolen from bill because bill Because bill did it. Yep. God. It's so weird to see the parallels between so many underground Like uh comedians and musicians who should who everybody's like, oh, they should have been more Oh mud honey should have been way bigger than nirvana that whole thing. They're the underground the meat puppet should have been way bigger

Bill cooper should have been way bigger than your shit alex jones Well, but here's the problem And I think that this is one of the reasons why this is a difficult episode for me to do is like a lot of people Who are listening to this are in the know and they know exactly how huge bill cooper is Yeah, and then there's a lot of people who listen who are like you who have no idea who he is No, so there's an interesting line to walk in terms of this show where we're giving an introduction Sort of to this as another topic that will come up over the course of our podcast, right? and

That might be unsatisfying to the people who are metaphorical mud honey fans or whatever You know what I mean because yeah, yeah, no, I get what you're saying because what you're expressing isn't true Like the idea of like why wasn't bill cooper bigger? He was huge. He's very big But I think the answer to that is obviously he committed suicide by cop That's probably one of the reasons he wasn't bigger. Well, that hurt his lingering appeal, you know, like couldn't put out new stuff after that Yeah, that's tough, but He's not a minor variable. He is someone who was uh very important to this world

of uh conspiracy and propaganda and uh malicious stuff, so So it I don't I get it. You want to you want a hammer you want to but you want to bring a button you want to put a button in this But I'm no I have another clip. I'm so oh, okay never mind I thought it's out. You you were sounding like you were wrapping up and you were not satisfied. No, I wasn't no It's not that I was I'm I it's all just like what I've been expressing this entire time at what I said before the show It's I don't know a ton. I want I'm gonna learn more

But as we're doing this show This episode it's not to give uh like here's bill cooper Right. It's a here's an interesting incident from alex's career Two incidents actually the 9 11 prediction incident and then the lying about the interview with bill cooper, right? And and so no you're furious that you're conversant and not a phd in the subject more or less and talking about it It's a bit. It's a bit of that. Yeah, and uh, I just have to make peace with that and I will it'll happen But we have one last uh Thing here and that is we already know that alex was lying

Uh to his caller about what happened with the bill But in this next clip from bill say fill your hand first two What else is what else is alex stealing from bill? It's probably the list is No bill didn't kill knock Um on bill's show where he's talking about how alex jones is a liar. Uh, which again, we don't need a backup to prove It is the case. Uh bill takes some calls and they all have his back Good evening. You're on the air. Yeah, Mr. Cooper. Um, listen that alex jones interview was directly after you published the barricade the barricade June 26 1998 issue about the uh cooper family being targeted by the fed

Yeah, yeah, I heard it Yeah back in 1990. So did he took did he kick me off here? No, he's a liar and you've pointed it out and I heard that interview and you were nothing but cordial Yeah, well, that's the truth Alex jones is a miserable rotten little stinking cowardly bullface liar Boy you know All all of these people are no better than the mess with me because I don't take any crap from anybody

It's true. And if I'm not afraid of the whole machinations of the entire government gestapo What in the hell makes alex jones safe that I would ever be afraid of his cowardly little rotten butt Good evening. You're on the air. Yeah, bill. Mm-hmm. I just wanted to let you know I verify what you said about that alex jones interview They had it archived on the internet at one time and I did hear that interview and There's nothing wrong with what you did And I wasn't thrown off the air wasn't out of there No

And if the only interview I ever did with alex jones as soon as I found out what he was doing and who he really was I he he's called me back at least a hundred times since then and I've always told him to take a hike So anyway, thank you. You're back. I appreciate that so the the interesting thing here that we have to wrestle with is that Bill is right like he's a hundred percent right in this circumstance about everything always ufo's are real about alex But he's also probably I think he's probably worse than alex in terms of being really extreme. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah

like the idea the banality of evil The banality of alex is is there's an impotence to alex. Yeah, there is a There's a small cross-section of his audience that will end up doing terrible things But most of them will just get lulled into a Learned helplessness and buy his products right right. It's the nature of the scam good for them I think that people who listen to bill cooper regularly are probably much more dangerous Oh, yeah, for sure thinking so Which is why there's so much more serious and focused and like when they're talking about a subject

They're directly talking about it. And then when they're done talking about it, they're done You know like how a fucking serial killer is goddamn organized and ready to get shit done alex jones prince hopper dink in the princess bride bill Is christopher guest the torturer in the princess bride christopher guest doesn't give a fuck He's just gonna do what he's gonna do. I can try and relate this to twilight We can't do that. Apparently, uh, I think I read in the group that everybody was out on 50 50 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to you're right earlier

I don't know how to put a button on this and there is no button This is just kind of an interesting uh snapshot that Ideally will build on more as time goes on But it's a snapshot worth looking at even without grander context because We now understand a little bit better where alex gets these ideas that he predicted 9 11 from Which is worth it on its own and then beyond that we get to hear someone call alex a fucking lying piece of shit Which is always fun. This is this is third season. We're introducing a new villain dan We're fucking nailing this of course your first episode. You're not gonna get closure on it dan

This is a season long arc or not. We could abandon it tomorrow So I don't know we'll learn more about bill uh cooper as time goes on I'll probably go ahead and read Behold a Pale Horse. Uh, I know I've read parts of it in the past But yeah, I'll I'll uh go ahead and jump down that fucking chimney and see what's inside Yeah, like uh, like somebody hijacking a plane stealing $500,000 and jumping off of it. You're gonna jump in Both both feet Derek Yep Derek bill cooper

Anyway, we'll be back uh on Wednesday absolutely unlike our friend Derek bill cooper who has disappeared RIP. We will not see him again. Get well soon. David night. Um, so until then we have a website knowledge fight.com We do we have a twitter at underscore knowledge underscore fight underscore bill cooper get rid of a bunch of that and then you got it Okay, we're also on facebook indeed. We got a group called go home and tell your mother you're brilliant correct Also, we're on itunes. We are on itunes. Check that out. Have some fun over there. Holy shit. Do you know it's crazy? What do you know who technically didn't kill a guy? Uh, well just because he didn't technically kill that cop. I don't know if we can say he didn't kill a guy That's true. But in one specifics in one specific instance

He really tried hard to kill a guy. It does seem that way. And wound up not doing it Yeah, it does seem that way. Whereas alex who technically probably Didn't mean to kill a guy wound up doing it. Andy and chansas you're on the air. Thanks for holding So alex i'm a first time caller i'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you