Knowledge Fight - #294: January 15-16, 2013

Episode Date: May 10, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan get back to the past to continue looking into what Alex Jones was doing in the days after Sandy Hook. Not a whole lot to learn about Alex's opinion on the shooting this episode, but the gents do get to talk a bit about Alex planning tax fraud with his neighbor, "the Illuminati card game," and Alex recommending a book that Timothy McVeigh liked even more than the Turner Diaries.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're going to do some around trick novelty beverages and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed, we are Dan. Jordan.

Dan! Jordan. Have you ever played a strategic board game besides risk? That's an amazing question for you to be asking on this episode. And you'll find out why towards the end of the episode. No way. It is amazing. That's ridiculous.

I don't know. What do you call, like, would stratego count? I think I've played stratego. I don't know. It's got strategy in the name. No, I almost bought Pandemic yesterday. Okay. So like Settlers of Catan, like that kind of stuff? I don't think I've ever played Settlers of Catan.

But boy, have I heard a lot about it. Yeah, yeah. People like to talk about it. How about cooperative board games? Like what? What counts as a cooperative board game? No idea. Crossfire? Sorry. Sorry.

I mean, what board game doesn't involve strategy? Okay. You really think about it. I don't know. Candyland. Candyland does not require strategy. I played Candyland a couple of years back thinking it would be funny. It was boring.

It's just rolling the dice. Is it even that? I don't know. I think it's just getting cars. They think they phased out Lord Licorice, which is very disappointing. Too scary for the kids. I don't know, man. I mean, I played a lot.

I've played a bit of risk in my day, but I think that might be the extent of the games like that that I've played. Yeah, I would say risk is a strategy game. Old buddy Joe Fernandez, Chicago comedian. He'll have people over to play games every now and again. And I've played a number of games that I can't remember the name of that I've enjoyed with him. Like one of them I think is called Koo.

I've enjoyed that. That was a fun game. What's that about? I don't know. You get to you overthrow a leader. Yeah, more or less bluffing game. But oh, okay. I got you.

But there's I don't know. I like I like games. I don't know any of them. I'd like to get more into board games. I would too. All right. Oddly enough. Hey, if you have any recommendations for board games, let us know because

this is a show where I know a lot about Alex Jones, but not a lot about cool new games. And I don't know any enough about either. That is correct. Jordan. Today we are back in the past and we'll be going over January 15th and 16th 2013 in an attempt to find out how Alex Jones behaved in the aftermath of Sandy Hook short version to get you up to speed so far.

Not great. Not great. Although weirdly in our last episode covering the 14th, he did get mad at a caller who wanted to say that Robbie Parker, one of the parents of one of the children who died at Sandy Hook was an actor. Alex got mad at him and responded. I'm not going to talk about the parents of dead children. Yeah.

Which was a huge plot twist. Yeah, see that one coming. So now we get into the 15th and 16th and see where it goes. But before we jump in too deeply, I'd like to take a moment to say thank you to some people who have joined up in our supporting the show. First of all, Scott. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wonk. Thank you, Scott. Thanks, Scott. Next, Nicole. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you, Nicky.

Thank you, Nicole. Next, Thomas. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you, Tomas. Tomas. The Tonk engine.

Thanks, Nathan. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Nathan. What are you doing? I don't know. Next, Abaddon the Dispoiler.

Thank you so much. Yeah, shorten that one. Abby. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you so much, Abaddon the Dispoiler. Thanks, Abby. I'd finally like to say thank you to someone donated on an elevated level.

We appreciate it, Osa, very much. So, Iris, thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. Four stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. Someone, someone, Sotomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Shark, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. He's a loser little, little kitty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you so much, Iris. Thank you very much, Iris. If you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I'd like to sport this show. I'd like what these guys do.

You can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking the button that says sport the show. We would appreciate it. It would be nice. Also, I don't want this to turn into too extended of a plug or anything, but we do have shirts you can buy. We have a link on knowledgefight.com. It says shirts up at the top.

I only bring this up because I want to say thank you to people who are posting pictures of themselves in the shirts. Yeah, that's so cool. It blows my mind that there are people in foreign countries walking around with a shirt for our dome-ass show. Yeah, yeah. It blows my mind, and it really, I don't know, it's moving. It's amazing.

Yeah. So thank you all for your support and everything, and let's do this, to kick out of this sentimentality that I'm feeling. Let's listen to an out-of-context drop from today's show. I'm God. I tell you what to eat. I tell doctors what to do. That's a little bit narcissistic, Alex.

God has a very narrow purview, then. What are you going to eat? So we jump in here on January 15th, 2013, and Alex has taken a little bit of a turn in his rhetoric. There is something that he is now preoccupied with that will probably take on... Do your hunting season? I wish. Hmm.

And I want all the rest of our riders, everybody else out there, should be beating the drum. Beating the drum for all-out impeachment, and we're going to impeach Obama publicly. Hold on. Watson, listen. Remember this morning I called you, and I said the way to go is to go after him and call for impeachment. Paul Joseph Watson is silently on the phone here. Always.

For all the stuff they've done. We need to put out our own articles of impeachment, and I'm going to talk about the articles of impeachment on air in the next hour. Okay, you can go check everything I say historically and pull it up. There's at least 10 reasons. People always like the number 10. 10 reasons to impeach Obama, that we must impeach Obama now. Okay, we've got to get on the offense.

So the bad news is Alex has discovered listicles. So that's dangerous. Oh boy. And then the other thing is, he always says that he never tells his riders what to do. He's very clearly telling them what to do here. Yeah, pretty much. So that's great. I sense a lot of ironic hypocrisy that's about to go on.

What do you mean by that? I mean, we're going to get a lot of reasons to impeach a president that will echo our current situation. Would you... Would you believe that I didn't even care about that? Yes, I would. Yeah. Alex's...

What he's doing is he's written his own articles of impeachment for Obama, and then posted them on his website. Right, right, right. Like Martin Luther. And now other media things are reporting on that. So like Drudge Report has a link to Alex's story, and the link is citizens file articles of impeachment. It's not citizens.

No. It's Alex Jones. I mean, he is a citizen. But it's not the same as like the idea of that headline is that like grassroots people are like... Of course. As opposed to it being Alex fucking Jones and Info Wars writing an article. Yeah.

It's an interesting way to plug that. But that becomes how Alex reports the story that he has created, which is citizens call for Obama's kicking out of office. I called for his impeachment. George said I was a citizen. Therefore, when I say citizens call... When I report on the story that I started, it is now citizens call for impeachment. This is great journalism, guys.

It is amazing. So we know that Alex believes that the media and everybody is so against the founding fathers. They hate George Washington. They hate the... The greats. Right, right. It is evident to that it's always very thin. But it's never been this thin.

Okay, what do we got here? They pre-program us. They get us ready. This is brainwashing. AMC is not satisfied with Mad Men's Foray in the 1960s is setting a new comedy in Colonial Boston and titling it We Hate Paul Revere. And it's basically about two brothers who are not fans of industrialist and activist Paul Revere.

And then the show reportedly from Deadline Hollywood just makes the founders look bad. I mean, whoa, a bunch of TV shows demonizing the founders. This is what a foreign occupation force does. Now, if that were true, we hate Paul Revere wouldn't have failed as a pilot. It didn't get picked up at all. That's why no one remembers that. That's why anyone who's listened to our episode now is like, what is that show? It was never on.

I had no idea what he was talking about. Alex had to scour Deadline to find something to get mad about. What is he doing? He's reading the trades. AMC is helping to, oh, God, oh, my God. This is terrible. Yeah. That was when AMC was trying to get into the comedy game a little bit.

That is weak sauce. But it should tell you like the depths that he needs to go to to get outraged. Yeah. He has to get outraged about this non-existent television show that was a pilot that was getting shopped around. God, wasn't that a beautiful time? Remember when we all used to get mad about TV shows and brown suits and now we're mad about crimes and the emoluments clause and creeping fascism and right wing terrorism?

Is it fair to say it's creeping anymore? No, it's probably, no, it's actually 100% here, isn't it? Sliding along. Yeah. We're real close. So, yeah, that was a more innocent time. Much like that was a more innocent time in that way. It's also a more innocent time in that on this January 15th episode, Alex has introduced

articles of impeachment against Barack Obama and then spends most of the rest of the beginning of the show doing a supplement infomercial. Of course. Out of the gates, Dr. Wallach, what is your take on the move to disarm the American people with executive orders? I mean, if they can take the guns, they're going to be able to take the supplements. So that's weird. Is that the order they usually go in?

We take away guns first and then the supplements. What are you going to do? We're going to knock on your door and take all your supplements away. If you don't have a gun to defend your supplements, they will take them. We got it. Yeah. I thought that was a really weird way to open up this extended infomercial that Alex does with Dr. Wallach.

The idea of like, Hey, you know, they're taking the guns next cut. They're coming for you and the supplements like that is actually probably true. You think so? Well, not the order of it, but like the same thing that could hurt illegal gun sales could hurt an unregulated supplement market in terms of like, yeah, okay, let's get rid of dangerous things. Yeah. Well, actually at this point, it probably will go in that order because guns are a bit

more of a pressing issue in the moment. Yeah. But then we'll regulate the supplement. I don't know. We're never going to make progress on the gun stuff, though. We might actually make progress. Yeah, that's I doubt it. Probably not.

So, um, Alex Jones runs in the more recent days, he's had Info Wars Life, which was private labeling a lot of products that were created by Dr. Group and the Global Healing Center. Who is not a doctor? No, he's not. He is a chiropractor and a con artist. But before Alex got involved with Dr. Group, he had another sponsor and that is this Dr. Wallach, who also is not a doctor. He is a veterinarian.

He made the Beyond Tangy Tangerine and all sorts of other products that Alex promotes and he plugs. And like I said, I've made the point before, so I don't want to focus on it too much, but he's not a human doctor. He is a veterinarian, though he did get his veterinary degree from my alma mater, the University of Missouri. So I'm pretty sure that means that he's cool enough to give humans medical advice. That does sound right.

Back in the 1980s, Dr. Wallach was treating cancer patients with a substance known as latrial, which it should be pointed out, definitely contains cyanide. Doctors who have studied latrial as a possible cancer aid have been pretty clear in saying that it should not be used, quote, there's a considerable risk of serious adverse effects from cyanide poisoning after latrial, especially after oral ingestion. The risk benefit balance of latrial as a treatment for cancer is therefore unambiguously negative. The drug is most memorable as one of the things that Steve McQueen tried in his unsuccessful

fight against terminal cancer, paying a quack doctor approximately $40,000 a month for latrial treatments that did nothing. Just gave him a little more cyanide. I mean, you know, it doesn't cure cancer, but it does kill it along with you. Sure. Yeah. In 1991, Wallach claimed he was nominated for a Nobel Prize, which is impossible for him to know since the Nobel committee keeps nominees' names confidential.

Unless Japanese Prime Minister Abe says it out loud. That's one possibility. Now, the only other legitimate conclusion you can come to is that he nominated himself for a Nobel Prize. 100%. In 1995, it was reported that Wallach was using chelation therapy to treat heart conditions, which is absolutely not an appropriate medical treatment for heart conditions. It's very happy keys, right?

No, that is basically just detoxing weird. Bullshit. Yeah. He got into a little bit of trouble when a family member of one of his patients complained that the relative of died after Wallach told him not to go see a normal doctor and that his chelation detox routine was effective. Chelation therapy for heart disease treatment has been condemned by the NIH and quote every scientific medical organization that has reviewed it.

A few years prior, Mohamed Kakvan, Dr. in Houston was ordered to pay $2.15 million in damages to the family of a patient who died in his care in very similar circumstances with chelation being used to treat heart disease. It's unclear why Wallach didn't end up in a similar situation, but it might have something to do with the fact that Wallach's victim's wife never pressed charges and quote is also a disciple of Wallach's ideas and healthcare and had the body cremated. Oh, I thought she just hated that guy. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Let's do this quack therapy. You need to do a quack therapy. I love it. I love it. Three weeks later.

Oh, yeah. I win. Wallach's entire thing that he preaches now and sells on Alex Jones's show, his whole idea is that everyone is secretly minerally deficient and they don't know it. So his mineral rich supplements are all they need to cure all manner of illness and in theory live to their natural lifespan that they should be living to, which is 120 to 140 years. Of course.

Unfortunately, quote, in 1993, a research team from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia reported the results of a 13 year study on 10,758 Americans, which failed to find any mortality benefits from vitamin and mineral supplements. The study found that even though supplement users smoke and drink less than non-users eat more fruits and vegetables than non-users and are more affluent than non-users, they didn't live any longer than non-users. So scientific studies have shown that his shit is weak. Yeah.

They probably believe in climate change too, Dan. You can't trust these CDC assholes. Remember how every zombie movie starts with them going down? I don't trust the CDC. They're why we have zombie movies, Dan. That's a fair point. Get some supplements. So Wallach claims that even though there are these studies and stuff that show that he's

full of crap, he claims that he studied five distinct cultures that have lifespans that he calls natural, which again is between 120 and 140 years. I assume he talked about Okinawa. I don't remember the exact ones, but I know that one of them is the Abkhazia region in Russia. That's fun. Or not in Russia, as it were. He claims that these people live long because they drink what he calls, quote, Glacier milk,

which is... Is that packaged by the soy people? Nope. It's just water that's filled with colloidal minerals. People have looked into these ideas and have speculated that he's just making this stuff up. Oh! Joel Wallach is a dangerous lunatic, and his appeal to people is so in line with what

Alex Jones does that when you really think about it, it makes complete sense that he's an early sponsor of the show. Wallach exploits two things to sell as products, and they're very similar to what Alex exploits. Hope and resentment. Wallach offers a simplistic and completely unproven explanation for everything that ails you. Everything that's wrong with your health has an easy fix. It's all just minerals.

You just got to buy his pills and you'll be good as new. This is false hope. Alex does the same thing with politics, by distilling very complicated situations with many different perspectives and interests. He turns that all into a battle between a good guy Patriots and evil overpowered globalists. Each of them hijack the part of your brains that yearns for an easy answer for a hard question and gives you hope that it could just be that simple. Wallach also harnesses resentment to sell as wares.

Most people don't love the medical field. Almost everyone's had some sort of a bad experience with a doctor or at a clinic, or have a loved one who had some sort of a medical complication or something like that. So it's pretty easy to suggest that your bad experience, it wasn't coincidence or bad luck. It was actually the medical establishment being too dumb or too corrupt to even care about treating you. Sounds right. If only they'd listened to Dr. Wallach and given you his minerals, then you wouldn't have

had that bad experience. He uses that to tap into people's resentment or their bad experiences in order to convince them to come to his side. Alex does the same thing with the government. We all have some complaints about the government. It's very natural since the government does a lot of shitty things. The problem is that Alex takes those feelings and uses them to push people towards his own goals as opposed to allowing them to feel their disappointment and resentment towards the

government and let that grow into whatever form of civic action they feel is appropriate. It again is a hijacking of normal, fairly universal feelings for exploitative purposes. So it makes total sense that he's here on Alex's show doing this infomercial. It's weird that it takes up so much of the show. It generally sounds like a tag team situation where you have like one guy, one guy's checking it, one guy's directing it. One guy's Dr. Mario and one guy is coming out to the ring in an American flag. One guy's Dr. Mario, the other guy is Dr. Robotnik with his Mean Bean Machine.

Perfect. Love it. Yeah, it's very strange to me that, you know, we've had this progression over time of his show from the day of Sandy Hook into just gun extremism, wall to wall. Then Alex goes on Piers Morgan's show and then it's a just naval gazing festival of I'm So Awesome, nobody can stop talking about how great I am on the biggest story in the world. And then out of nowhere, this huge infomercial.

It's very strange. Is it? I feel like he's capitalizing on that popularity. No, I think probably, yeah, that would make, that would make the most sense. You know, now that you're hot and you got a lot more eyes on you, that's when you sell from a marketing perspective, absolutely. But from a progression and narrative standpoint, it's very strange. Oh yeah.

Um, also, I should tell you this, uh, Dr. Wallach's company, Young Jevity is a multi-level marketing operation. Young Jevity? Yeah. It's a multi-level marketing operation that Alex is helping him recruit people into specifically, which kind of leads us smoothly into this next clip. Cause I'll tell you what, Dr. Wallach didn't come alone, but I also wanted to talk about solutions here today.

And a few weeks ago, it was one of the most popular news we've done on health. I wanted to get Theo Ratliff on the broadcast. He just retired. He was able to stay in the NBA 10 years more than he would have with Dr. Joel Wallach's research. And we promote all the products that they've developed at m4shealth.com when you purchase them there. It also supports our transmission.

So I've got Theo back on to talk about his experience just with minerals and vitamins. So he has Theo Ratliff, NBA, uh, one-time all-star Theo Ratliff. I really thought it was going to be someone else. No. I did not expect, uh, medium longevity, uh, top 20 blockers of all time at this point in the NBA history. He wasn't bad. He was a journeyman.

He was a journeyman. Yeah. No, nothing against his, uh, his skills or anything like that. Um, but the idea that Alex is saying that he could play 10 years longer than normal because of the, like he played for 15, 16 seasons. A normal career isn't just five seasons. Uh, the average is, yeah. Really?

Yeah. The average is pretty low. Cause you don't, you don't think about the fact that there are 15 guys on the team, you know, they're, they're a rotation of about eight people who wind up playing and then the rest of them just are part of the practice squad. So if you're not moving along in your career, you wind up only playing for a few years. But a lot of that doesn't come down to like physical deterioration. No, absolutely not.

You're just a select amount of spots. Right. It's, it's, it's more a talent gap than it is a, like everyone's body breaks that 100% from listening to this interview, which we're not going to listen to any of Theo stuff because I don't trust him. Um, but also because his main point, so you would say you're blocking him right now. Yeah. His main point seems to be that, uh, he got surgery at some point and then also started

taking Walik's, uh, supplements. Oh, so we got a classic case where he's claiming whatever benefits he gained from having a successful hip surgery are actually attributable to these supplements. Right. Coincidence, uh, you know, correlation causation situation. Absolutely. Um, that's a good band, bad name. And then I also found this, which made me not want to listen to his interview on our

show. Hey guys. Hey, young Japanese family in Las Vegas, no, it's me here at Theo, uh, your guy, rip the Lakers, you know, run it up and down the floor, try to get this championship. Um, it's great, great to see you guys, uh, be here with you guys and sorry I can't be there in person, but, you know, hope this message, you know, uh, is a good message for you guys. And you know, just want to say thank you for all the things you've done in my life to help

me continue my career and continue to be an energetic person and have this great product to be able to go out and to just introduce people to something that's healthy and something that can give them the energy that they need, you know, constantly throughout their life. So, um, great, great, great, great, have a great, great time in Vegas. Enjoy yourself. Don't lose your money. Stop. Don't go down there.

Yeah. Don't lose your money. No, but enjoy yourself. Um, like I said, sorry to come be here with you guys, you know, like I said, I love all you guys and I thank you for all that you've done. So, uh, Theo Ratliff, that was a video that he made for a, uh, you know, it sounds like a conference. It is a Las Vegas conference.

He played it. They were all the multi-level marketing company. They had a conference in Las Vegas and he recorded a message for the people who attended this conference. He could have used an editor, but you know, what are you going to do? He's a paid representative of, uh, young Jevity. So him appearing on Alex's show is basically just like, Hey, here's, uh, one of our celebrity reps.

Yeah. This is our spokesperson. Yeah. Exactly. Jesus. This is just a shameful display of, yeah. I mean, whatever he's got. You know, he's making money.

Yeah. I, I, I do think it's probably a little bit less ethical than just like, yeah, he's getting paid, whatever, just because it is still luring people into a multi-level marketing scam. Yeah. Um, also, is it, uh, disclosed that he's associated with the ungevity? Just that he loves the product. Just that he loves the product.

And they extended his career. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. You kind of have to look around and find that video of him, uh, uh, and dig a little bit more into the indications that he's a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, rep. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Um, so I told you earlier that, uh, uh, our friend, uh, Dr. Joel Wallach is not so much a human doctor as he is, uh, veterinarian. And that could be a problem, uh, for most people, well, they're not supposed to practice or give medical advice to humans. It does seem like that is something that people lose their licenses over.

But Alex knows that if you look into him too much, you'll find out that he's a veterinarian. So he has a rebuttal for that in advance. Oh, ready? Yeah. Oh boy. So his job is actually to deliver food, uh, beef and things to the market and not have it die, not bankrupt the industry. So that's why you get real medicine there.

You get better doctoring from veterinarians. If you, let me see if you followed this, because you seem like you got the gears turned. I'm, I'm, I'm looking into this, right? I've, I've written down a little bit of what it was that he's saying. So if I understand correctly, that's no better medicine because their job is to get beef from one place to another. And because of that, they won't mess with the industry. I think, yeah, I mean, uh, on a simplistic level, yes, what he's saying is that doctors

don't care if they kill you because you can't eat you. Their market isn't predicated upon beef. Yes. Yes. So if cows die, that is negative to the beef market. Farm veterinarian, does he deal with, does he deal with cows? No, I know. I really don't think he does.

No, I don't. So I assume he, you know, does more, does more pet stuff. I think he was working at a zoo at some point, according to his own, uh, sort of telling of his life. At the time that he was at the zoo, he was saying he was doing all kinds of like, uh, autopsies on animals and they said he was killing animals in a 12 year span. He claimed that he had done 3000 autopsies on humans while he was working at the zoo. On humans, which is crazy, like in house humans, a lot of, a lot of people falling in and dying

and they're just like, well, we got to figure out why he died. The details are murky and he's obviously making it up, but it looks like the giant bite marks might have something to do with that. He uses that as like sort of a defense for his argument that he did all these autopsies and what he's like, Oh, everyone who dies of natural causes, it's really just a mineral deficiency. Right. Right.

Because I was working at this zoo and I did autopsies on a bunch of people for some reason. You know, cause it turns out he's actually a doctor from the 1920s. He's a mess, man. Just stealing, stealing bodies to do autopsies on his own is fucking crazy. That is crazy. But he, there's an, a question that Alex wants to ask him, uh, and that is the Alex How's down to Grand Prix?

Yeah, bad news. This has been taking these supplements, the beyond tangy tangerine, the other ones whose names I can't remember. That one is catchy though. Yeah. That's why I can remember it. What is it? It's like, uh, what's that stuff that you sprinkle into water and it becomes juice?

Crystal light. Crystal light. I think it's like crystal light. So it's just crystal light, but with minerals. But it's got minerals. Okay. All right. Okay.

Um, it's like a crystal light with a bunch of rocks in it. That sounds great. Delicious. Give me some minerals. So Alex has been taking these supplements and he's been noticing that he's noticing that he's been getting really aggro lately. Uh, and he wants to ask Dr. Wallach, why is it that I take your supplements and I've been getting aggressive?

I've been, I've been turning into like, I've been angry. So I'm going to take this commercial and turn it into, why is this ruining my life? He talks about it quite a bit. He brings it up a couple of times and, uh, here is Wallach, uh, answering that question. Why did it make me feel, I mean, I was always naturally kind of an aggressive guy, um, angry some of the time and stuff, but I mean, not in a bad way. Why when I take me on to any tangerine, essential fatty acids and things like rebound and stuff, why does it make me bounce off the walls and have so much more energy?

Well, because your testicles, Alex, God love them, um, require all 90 cents of nutrients to make testosterone. So if you're eating four to six eggs a day, you're taking the Alex pack twice a day because you're a big guy. Um, you're going to produce enough testosterone to make an elephant happy. And so you don't need to do any doping here. You don't need to take testosterone patches and all that kind of stuff. You just give your body what it needs and you will make enough testosterone that you

will be a man's man. And that's what's happening to you. Notice that he's becoming a man's man because, uh, his balls are working now. I don't like their definition of man. No, I think it's bad. Well, Alex being more aggro, uh, him turning into a man's man. Yeah, I don't like it at all. It doesn't sound good.

I don't, I don't, also that's not a good, none of that was good. No, I know all of the things that he said were bad things for your body. Your testicles. He told me bad things four to six eggs on a, no, I was trying to think like on the craziest egg day. Maybe two. Well, did you see they did a Fox news, uh, piece where they went to a shitty restaurant and in front of, or not just like a dive, uh, breakfast place and in front of every,

uh, people, uh, every person that they interviewed, the prop guys apparently put 10 eggs in front of them. Just every single one. They just rotated 10 eggs. I did not see this and I don't know, I don't understand what the point was. Insane. What's the point of this? Nobody could eat 10 eggs.

Oh. What, what, what, what, what's the point? I don't, I don't understand what they were trying to do. Is it just sloppy, uh, set dressing? No. It must be fucking with us. Okay. That has to be, why would you put the same plate of 10 eggs in front of everybody while

you're interviewing? That is very weird. That's crazy. Right? Yeah. In less, 18 people are eating 10 eggs in the same restaurant. It's entirely possible that this was, uh, uh, yeah, the shade, uh, D's wolf house of 10 eggs.

It's entirely possible. Uh, and if, if that restaurant does exist, I have one thing to say. And that is it's time to pray now, George, yes, on our first episode, we ever did. We heard Alex Jones tell us that if they take out net and yahoo, it's all over. It, that's the canary in the coal mine. It's time to pray. It is time to pray. Yeah.

In the intervening two and a half years almost now that we've been doing this podcast, we've never heard him explicitly tell us another time that it is time to pray. Is it time to pray? It's time to pray. It's time to pray. And that's the sound I feel like I should make just who, who, man, they're going to take everything. The fact they're going after the guns, it means they mean business.

It's time to pray. Yeah. He was a little bit more confident this time though, and he doesn't then end up going into a prayer as he did the last time we heard this, but yeah, but I kind of, I kind of want to hear that prayer again. Yeah. The guns, he's like, the guns are going to be taken away. It's time to pray.

It's time to pray. So that's all we got on the 15th because largely most of the show is that Dr. Wallach infomercial and then Alex bang in the gong for his impeachment articles. Right. Right. And so it's like, well, there's not a whole lot going on here. You know, the story doesn't evolve far past. I have decided that I'm going to put in articles of impeachment.

Yeah. And then he can do that. He crows a whole lot about the idea that the founding fathers set up the government in such a way that citizens write the articles of impeachment and then the politicians can pick them up and run with them. Right. Right. I guess that might be true.

Why not? Yeah. I don't want to look into that. Fine. If you want to believe that, great. Right. And you know what? I wouldn't want it not to work that way.

Yeah. So I don't care. But we get into the 16th and on January 16th, 2020, we're going to get into the 16th. 2013, Barack Obama has a press conference where he talks about gun control and he talks, he has a bunch of the children around him and they, he discusses common sense gun reform that he would like to push through and like to work on. And Alex plays a bit of the press conference and lo and behold, he can't stop interrupting it.

You can't even hear it over him being combative and yelling. You hate that concealed carry is pushing back your urban crime wave. You hate the fact that people in big cities illegally have guns to protect themselves. You hate it. You want total control to do us whatever you want. You gangster thug. Seems like there's some coded language in there. So he's talking about urban areas specifically and then he says he's a thug, right?

It does. It does seem like there's a little bit of, I don't know, that's just just a thought. So those don't need pause at the speech to get a little bit of yelling and whatever. In this next clip, Alex talks about how Joe Biden seemed very thrilled during that press conference and I think this drifts into Alex's fantasies a tiny bit and Biden could hardly stop smiling. We're trying to have a serious look and I want to do a piece on that alert to the real media out there.

Biden a bunch was going to call the first introducing Obama. He was trying out to smile. He was going, yeah, I'm a gangster. I mean, Biden is a gangster. Fine. Okay. But that characterization is still off a little bit of the people in the real media. Yeah.

That was like he wouldn't want to admit that part, right? Well, I'm I question whether when he's saying the real media, he's talking about like maybe Drudge Fox News and that kind of stuff. I don't even think he likes Fox News at this point. Not yet. Yeah. But I think he was saying, you know, Drudge, pick this up as opposed to it being like a NPR.

Right. Yeah. Not the legacy media or whatever. So his analysis of this is largely just Obama and Biden can't wait to get their hands on the guns. They're giddy about it. And they're using these kids as a human shield and I mean, it's pretty, pretty gross. But he can't really cover a whole lot of it because it's happening as he's doing the

show. Yeah. So he's trying to respond to it live and he ends up just having the posits so he can yell or yelling over Obama. Right. Right. Right. His usual modus operandi.

Right. Right. And so I think maybe the producers stepped in or maybe he just realized it himself and was like, we can just cut clips and I can talk about this later. Let's not do this as it's happening until I start spinning yarns about what he would be doing if he didn't have to be in this battle against the globalists, which this is so they didn't have anything planned other than responding to that speech. This is a pretty crazy thought.

Okay. If we turn this country around, I would literally have a show about science and a show about literature and movies and about camping and stuff. I would have a once a week three hour radio TV show variety show. Yes. I mean, I'd have like magicians on. I want that. I would have the interesting.

I want Alex Jones. Johnny Carson show. Okay. I don't like having to do this. No one's making you give somebody green like that. Seriously. Look, we hate Paul Revere was terrible, I guess. But God damn it.

If I don't want to watch a show about whatever Alex is thinking about that day, and maybe there's going to be a magician, Alex's Sunday shows are such trash now. Why not just do that there? Yeah, that'd be great. Alex runs an operation where he, he has literally unlimited screen time. He could do whatever he wants. That's true. It would be pretty amazing to see him try to be Johnny Carson.

And then he would go do remote pieces in the woods, being like, all right, guys, here's how we're going to tie this knot right now and start a fire. The only fucking comedian who would come on his show is fucking Nick DiPallo at this point. If he was doing a variety show, I might go on a show. If he quit doing, if he quit doing his regular show, because he keeps doing the regular show Monday through Friday. Oh no, that's no good. Yeah.

I'm going to give that up. That's the cash cow. Ah, damn. The passion project is Johnny Carson. Alex Jones as Johnny Carson. I want that show now. So that's, you know, he's sort of, he's sort of saying that like, if we could turn this country around, you got that look to look forward to, which I think is probably the best incentive

to turn this country around. Yeah. You would think that after Trump was elected, he'd be like, it's time, baby. Yeah. As he, as he's sort of just rambling and talking freely, he ends up expressing something that I find very interesting. And that is that he does wish to live in a polite society, which is good. Okay.

Which is good. That's good. Untrustworthy. We should all aspire to live in peace and happiness and politeness with each other. And it seems like we can't because of guys like him. Well, here's why his version of it is really problematic. But listen to this clip and see if you follow his train of thought and how politeness is achieved.

The reason the British are so polite is that he goes back to the age of chivalry in the 15th, 16th, 17th century. If you were rude to someone and it all came out of the enlightenment and people becoming free, it was, I don't care who you are. You insult me. You be a Lord. You be anybody. You're going to get in a fight with me.

I'm going to call you out and no one's going to associate with you ever again. If you don't pull your sword or walk your 20 paces and we're going to fight to the death right now. Okay. You just insulted me. You just acted like a tough gangbanger. Get out in the street. Somebody's going to die right now.

It's actually not. An armed society is a polite society. And if you're watching me on TV today, if you're watching the radio streams on TV right now, you notice I'm wearing. He's in camo. Oh, um, oh my God, boo. So what he's expressing there is an idea that politeness is really only achieved by the implied or explicit threat of mortal violence.

Yeah, that does sound like what he's saying. I don't want to live in that world. The constant, unyielding threat on a moment by moment basis. Everything you do is predicated on your fear of somebody murdering you. If you're impolite to somebody death, you're going to die or they are right, which is even worse. If you're impolite to somebody, you might have to murder them. Yeah.

That's a bad way to live. I would rather live in a world where people recognize that it's a much more pleasant existence to be nice to people and you enjoy your life a lot more when people are nice to you and you can just sort of, I don't know, externalize that and apply that to other people's feelings and realize that if it makes you feel good, it probably makes them feel good. That does sound right. Why not? I saw a live in a very polite, nice, happy place.

I don't like what you said. Draw your sword. I can definitely hear a happy elephant's amount of testosterone in his voice right now. Yes. A lot of eggs. Yeah. I don't know. I think that what he's accidentally, maybe not accidentally, I'm not entirely sure, but

what he's expressing and describing is a dystopian state that I would never want to live in. And what he's using to justify it has zero resemblance to what he thinks it is, to what he's saying it is. No, that's pretty common. It has no, nothing to do with polite society in the medieval times. Nope. So in this next clip, Alex has expressed his feelings about politeness.

He's talked about wanting to be the next Johnny Carson, wants the globalist to take care of. And I think he's feeling pretty good. And so he's feeling magnanimous. Okay. He's introduced his articles of impeachment against Obama. So it's only a matter of time. Everything is coming up, Alex.

And he decides it's time to bury the hatchet with some people. But when it's all said and done, the people that have fought this tyranny, none of us are perfect. But the folks over at WorldNet Daily, people like Drudge and his crew, my crew, and there's so few. I mean, I've got to be honest. So few that really are hardcore, that really know what's going on. He's not perfect in many ways, but he defends the Bill of Rights, Michael Savage.

I mean, there's just not many. Glenn Beck, you know, does nasty stuff to me on the side, but he does a lot of good work. So you know what? As long as he doesn't say Ron Paul's porch would be arrested again, like he said four years ago, I want to bury the hatchet with Glenn Beck. It's just, I said that a lot and he comes out and says I'm a fascist, but you know what? Fascists wear fancy suits.

They don't wear camo. All right. Stop talking about wearing camo. That does not compute at all. I would even argue right now that fascists wear camo. And some wear fancy suits. Yeah, that's true. I don't think clothing dictates your fascism level.

That's a good question. I think this is university of Missouri. Get on it. I think this is so fascinating. The idea that he, he's like, you know what, Glenn Beck's cool. Let's bury the hatchet. I always try and be nice to him and then he calls me a fascist. That makes me think that Glenn Beck has something akin to decent sense.

Yeah. I know he doesn't. He's a, he's a ludicrous monster and a douche. But the idea that he would never respond to Alex's overtures with like, all right, let's bury the hatchet that leaves me to believe that there's at least something working in his brain. I'm like, I know better than to accept an overture from this man. Yeah.

Yeah. He probably wants to be separate from Alex the same way. Like he likes Alex the same way Alex likes the KKK, you know, or the people who criticize him for who call him anti-Semitic because so long as Alex seems even crazier, Glenn Beck almost makes sense. Glenn Beck's business model doesn't work out if they get along. He needs Alex to be a foil to him. Exactly.

Otherwise it's too clear. Otherwise they're both crazy. It's too clear that they're both fascists. Yeah. So in this next clip, Alex starts rambling about Athenian democracy, I guess. Okay. I'm not entirely sure. But we're so long coming in here.

So long doesn't come up, but it does give us a good opportunity to learn about some mythical figures. We're not a pure democracy. The Greeks had a pure democracy for a while in some of their city-states. They'd have a bucket of white rocks for a yes vote, black rocks for a no vote, and the voters would go and put their rocks in there. Only the upper gentry got to vote, but that was a democracy of the elite. And who didn't like what Esop just said?

I don't like it. Well, the rocks say, 90% of the rocks say Esop, we're going to throw you off that cliff. We're going to make you drink him long. I mix them all together. Most of the famous philosophers you hear about were killed. You know what we don't like what you say? You're going to die. How does that sound to say, because the pen is mightier than the sword.

But when they come for the sword, you know they're dropping the hammer. Is the pen mightier than the hammer? That's an interesting, transitive property of defeat. Well, I know it's not, though, because we have no idea the power relation of the hammer to the pen or the sword. I want to, I want a perfect DPS rating for each of these. I have no idea. Alex doesn't either, but it sounded good.

Kind of. Yeah. When, you know, the pen is mightier than the sword, but when they take the sword, they're dropping the hammer. Right. In a vacuum. That's a good sentence. That does sound pretty fun.

His version of Grecian or Hellenic democracy is a little bit, it's a little more complicated. Oh, is it? I don't care to give you a lecture about the difference between various city states and the Boulay and what have you. Not important. Yeah. I do want to talk about Aesop and Socrates, though. That sounds good.

We've talked a bit in the past about the death of Socrates, so again, I don't want to get too in depth into that right now, but suffice it to say that he had only himself to blame for the situation he was in. The Athenians were primarily concerned with him being blasphemous and harassing people in the public square. And they put him on trial for it. When he was found guilty, he was given the chance to choose his own punishment and he said that he should be given free meals for life.

At which point they were like, all right, fuck it, we're going to kill you. Even after being sentenced to death, it was very clear that they didn't really want to kill him and they would be totally cool if he just left town since the main issue is that he was harassing everyone with his lectures. Since he believed so strongly in the rule of law and of Athenian democracy, Socrates refused to save his own life by leaving since his death was what the law decided was his own punishment. Yeah, he was a dick.

He was a big dick. He was just a dick. So he was bothering everybody by asking them questions incessantly. Yeah, he annoyed everybody and was blasphemous to the then prevalent conceptions of divinity. So, I don't know Think about how much of an asshole you need to be for people to try not to kill you and still have to go through with it. That's a huge asshole.

It's pretty bad. I mean, it is a real level of, you know, grandiosity and bombasticness, eating a lot of eggs. Yeah. To be able to like, all right, we find you guilty of blasphemy. What should your punishment be? Feed me for life. I will tell you what, right there, he's got huge testicles.

God bless him. As for ASOP, the only things anyone even knows about his life come from fairly unreliable sources. One legend, existing most likely entirely as oral tradition for about 600 years before they were ever written down. It said that he was thrown off a cliff in Delphi, having been accused of stealing a cup from a temple. Other sources say that the reason he was killed was because he got really mad at the crowd

in Delphi at a speech he was giving when they didn't give him any money, calling the Delphians quote slaves of all Greeks. Because of this great offense to the dignity of the city of Delphi and worrying that if he left the city, he would bring great shame to the reputation by talking shit about them wherever he went. Some have suggested that the priest in the city planted a cup in his baggage to set ASOP up. When the Delphians took ASOP to the cliff from which he was to be thrown, he recited

two very insulting fables to them and called on the muses to avenge his death and then threw himself off the cliff to his death. I have had some bad shows. I've insulted doubts. Nobody has planted a fucking cup. Tonight you're going to be in Rockford. You got time. So other versions of the story involve him insulting the religious traditions of Delphi,

calling their ritual sacrifices greedy, which led to him getting charged with blasphemy being stoned to death and then his body thrown off a cliff. He was fed stones for the rest of his life though. He didn't have much of a life left. There's a lot of versions of the story and it's not entirely clear if any of them are actually literally true because it's all passed down through 600 years of oral tradition. Whatever the case, there's some sort of mythical reality to these stories, but no real reality. A large piece of how this story was used was to create an explanation for subsequent famine

and violence against the citizens of Delphi. Within the oral tradition, these events were not just bad luck or an isolated war, they were the consequences of Delphi immorally killing Aesop. The entire affair takes on a cosmic importance in a poetic narrative. When you study oral tradition, you find a lot of this sort of thing. Stories transform to fit stereotypes and archetypes and you see it in the story of Aesop's death as it becomes the story of a scapegoat that explains these famines and these wars. He became his own fable.

Indeed. Yeah. Alex doesn't understand any of this stuff, but it's really funny just to see this little glimpse and see that he believes that lore is true throughout all of history. It's so weirdly consistent how unable he is to get out of this little, this framework, you know, of, of just thinking, well, old timer said it's true. No, it's not. You know, that is, that is kind of fascinating in, in the way that because we know he can't

read and hates the word. That is fascinating. His belief naturally leans towards the oral tradition. Anything that's said, he believes anything that's written down terrifies him. Yeah. The old whiskey bards have passed down the tale of patriots of old bully. So we had Joel Wallach and NBA great Theo Ratliff come in on the last episode. And I just, can I just confirm he did say glacial milk.

Yeah. Glacier milk. Glacier milk. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That does not sound like something that you would want to be anywhere near. I do.

Actually. I think it would be glacier milk. Yep. If you just went to a glacier. I think the milks have had great batting averages for me. Chocolate milk, strawberry milk, milk, milk. How about soy milk? I don't hate soy milk.

You don't hate soy milk? Almond milk is okay too. I don't know. I think banana milk is probably the only one I've had that's terrible. I can't even imagine looking at banana milk and not kicking it out of my hand. Well, I got tricked because it was a nest quick thing. So I was like, I'll give it a shot. Yeah.

It wasn't good. Your novelty flavors are a double-edged sword. You live by the novelty. You die by the novelty. So Alex had those guys on the show as a big hoopla publicity infomercial thing on the 15th. And now on the 16th, he has another guest on. We've got to hit him with the info war, the truth. Now I give you a James David Manning, a chief pastor at the Otla World Missionary Church,

reaches millions of people every month online in a big church there in town and has a huge soup kitchen program. It's non-government run for the citizens of the area. That's great. So Alex's show in early 2013 is so weird. He's completely transformed his narrative over the course of a few weeks. So now without a fair amount of context and understanding, which we're able to have because we've spent the time looking at it, it would be easy to not even recognize what he's done.

After Sandy Hook, Alex wrestled for a little while with how the shooting was probably staged by the globalists, even dipping his toe into they were actors there kind of waters. He needed the event to be suspect because if the globalists are behind the shooting, then that goes a long way towards proving that Alex is right that this only happened as a justification to take his guns. So the narrative pivots and his show becomes nothing short of a gun paranoia, doom porn kind of thing for weeks. With every person who comes on the show being people like Larry Pratt and Stuart Rhodes,

they show up constantly to lend credibility to Alex's screaming about how the big one is coming. I think Dwayne The Rock Johnson was in some doom porn. Yeah, he was. Yeah. This pageant culminates with Alex doing a huge publicity stunt, starting a petition to get Piers Morgan deported over gun issues. Of course, that was really just the opening volley because Piers played along and the

real culmination is Alex going on Piers Morgan's show and yelling at him about how you're going to take the guns in 1776, blah, blah, blah. That narrative played out exactly as it was supposed to. Alex has penetrated the mainstream news and everyone making fun of him is just more proof that he's actually right. That is now fully implanted. So the narrative has to pivot again. Instead of treading water in the gun paranoia bucket, Alex is able to build further upon

the block that he's created in order to get to his next step. This is a classic game of what I would describe as if this is true, what else must be true? If the globalist stage Sandy Hook, it must also be true that they're doing that to come for Alex's guns. If they're coming for Alex's guns, what else must be true? It must also be true that the only thing that we can do is impeach Obama. This show feels completely different now in these couple of days. You see it with these completely different guests and an obsessive focus on Obama and

getting him out of office with banging the drum of the impeachment, screaming over his press conference. When Alex needs to push gun paranoia, he can call Pratt or Ted Nugent. When he needs to push financial collapse narratives, he can call Gerald Salenti or Peter Schiff. And now that the theme of the show has changed from we love guns, get ready to use your guns, to we should impeach the president, he has a disgusting attempt at a publicity stunt with the Obama phone lady. And now he's called in the most anti-Obama person around, Reverend James David Manning.

He is using this specifically. This is very interesting the way that these narratives build upon each other and he knows well enough to jump off and pivot before it becomes stagnant. It's very interesting to me. I've been waiting for Manning to come back up on the show because the sense of last time we talked about him, he's found himself in a little bit of trouble. When we did our episode covering Manning, we discussed a leak tape of him sexually harassing a former student at his OTT law school while alone in a car with her, someone who was conservatively

50 years younger than him. She was 18 when the tape was recorded, but in it Manning discusses how he started having sexual feelings for her when she began at his school when she was 14. He talks about wanting to pull up her skirt and says, quote, you've got an incredible body. I ended up editing that portion of our episode out at that point because I couldn't find any sources that I would consider credible that were reporting on the tape. So I thought that there was the smallest possibility that it was someone doing a really, really

good Reverend Manning impression. Since then, the Huffington Post did an extensive investigation of Manning's OTT law church and the verdict is in. It is fine for us to talk about this and the picture of it is much darker than it appeared even when we covered it. Even as dark as a 70 year old man, impotently flirting with one of his former students absolutely is. It's very dark, but the reality is much worse.

Manning is a real pile of shit. Speaking to many former attendees of Manning's school, which is an offshoot of his church, a picture firmly forms of a lunatic cult leader who because of his position wields an unbelievable level of power, which he's more than happy to abuse. The first thing to consider is that parents who would put their kids in his school are almost certainly members of his church. And if that's the case, then they almost certainly think Manning is the most godly person in the world and humanity's only chance.

He's created a messianic thing about himself, and we've seen that demonstrated pretty clearly, like in all the clips we've played where he yells from the pulpit about how he's immortal. For instance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That one's a good sign. A good sign that if you're putting up with that, you have a distorted view of this guy. Yeah, you got it all. So all this creates a fucked up situation where Manning can use abusive punishments

for students, like in the case of a student he locked in the church basement in the dark for three full school days back in 2011. What? Yeah. What? The student wasn't allowed to eat on the first day and said that his thoughts drifted to suicide as the minutes dragged on in the dark alone in the basement. That is fucked up.

That student said his parents approved Manning's punishment because they believed he was infallible. Great, great. So James, so he's the arpaio of God. Incidentally, what that student was being punished for was dating a girl and being sexually active. That girl didn't get punished, but it's probably just a coincidence that she was the one who later recorded Manning telling her she had a great body and wanted to see her breast. No, that's fucked up.

It's a little fucked up. Everything's fucked up. That's the most fucked up thing I've heard. Yeah. What? So, oh my God. So he slept with an underaged girl that he wanted to sleep with and so the guy put him in a fucking basement without lights for three days.

I am not saying that A led to B led to C, but boy, it looks like it did. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Holy fuck. The dynamics you read about in this HuffPost article are terrifying. These kids are being abused, whether it's through the kinds of allegedly biblical punishments he employs or through Manning's use of his own YouTube videos as curriculum for their education.

And the kids can't leave because their parents believe that the school's headmaster is infallible and he's made a practice of convincing parents to disown their children when they question him too much. Just think about the situation that puts these kids in. They can either put up with literally whatever Manning wants to do to them or they can risk being disowned and expelled and immediately becoming homeless and a high school dropout. And that's not a hypothetical either. That's literally what happened to multiple students who believed that the tape of Manning

sexually harassing his former student was real. And it happened to Joshua Farr, who Manning baselessly accused of being gay, who was then kicked out of the school and became a homeless high school dropout, and then later also to that guy's brother, Isaiah. Then Derek Mills was kicked out for refusing to end his friendship with Isaiah. Inevitably, Manning always makes the abuse he inflicts on these people their own fault. After he kicked the students out who believed that that tape of him was real, he said this from the pulpit, quote,

Sharif Hassan, that's the guy who got locked in the basement. And yeah, Hassan's friends have been led down a path of destruction by following him and perhaps even believing him. Many of you tonight do not have your children with you because of the lie perpetrated and false and doctored tape perpetrated by Hassan. He fucking said that from the pulpit. God, he said that. Yeah, said that.

Like that's an OK thing to say. He said many of you have lost your children because your kids are liars. Fuck. Yep. He goes on to call the students who he had expelled and made homeless, quote, demons. The HuffPost article includes this image, which I find endlessly terrifying, quote, the former students watched on their computers and phones, horrified at the idea of their parents and siblings sitting in the audience, intermittently participating in claps and

cheers as Manning calls their children demons. It's terrifying. Also, in one article I read, I can't confirm that this is the case. But in another article, they said that they spoke to former church members who said that Manning asked them to shit in bags and leave them at gay owned businesses. So in retaliation for a sodomite sending him a bucket of poop, he has taken it upon himself to spread poop amongst the land. I would question whether that sodomite ever sent him a bucket of poop.

Or if it was him projecting about what he was doing. Yeah. So this is gross cult leader shit. And I guess that the only positive is that the HuffPost covered it. And hopefully word is starting to get out that this man is a dangerous lunatic who's abusing his congregation for his own enrichment. Four former congregants told HuffPost that, quote, Manning decided a few years ago the congregants weren't donating enough of their income to the church.

That's when he started imploring followers to give him access to their bank accounts. He told them they didn't know how to manage their money and that he would take better care of it than they could, which is something that cool pastors do. What makes all this extra scary is that in 2016, we got a glimpse into how Manning might respond if his grip on his flock was ever truly threatened. He owned about a owed about a million dollars in utility bills and back taxes. And his church was in danger of being foreclosed on. Manning did not deal with that well.

Quote, in a moment of apparent desperation, Manning made a video threatening to barricade himself inside the church with kids from the community. He said the standoff could turn violent, even quote, worse than wounded knee. It's unclear if he was imagining himself as being the US cavalry or the Lakota in that analogy, but whatever the case is, it's clear that he was sending a message that if anyone tried to come take his building, he was perfectly fine using the children of his congregation as human shields. That takes on particular importance on today's episode.

Alex Jones spends a lot of time talking about how Obama Obama is using these children at his press conference as human shields when he's talking about gun regulation. It's a gross way for Alex to attack the idea that there are youths who are affected by gun violence and are in favor of gun control. But it becomes even grosser to realize that the guy Alex called to help him demonize Obama happens to be a guy who was literally threatening to use children as human shields just a few years later. And at the time of this interview, this recording, he was actively traumatizing

students at his bullshit school. So Alex, give a fuck himself. The Jesus fucking Christ. It's a massive level of inappropriate that Alex, but this guy doesn't like Obama. And he's black. So that helps Alex's argument. Got him. Yeah.

So that's all Alex is super interested in right now. She's the pageant is to demonize Obama. Who can help me with that? Right. Boom. Pastor Manning. So we, we just listened to me tell a lot of really bad things about Reverend Manning, which I mean, it's terrible, but it makes this clip.

Everybody knows what I'm saying. It makes this clip a little bit worse. But I know it's the prayers that are sustaining me from the bottom of my heart. I feel that connection with you, pastor. Thank you, sir. God bless you, sir. So Alex feels a connection with him.

You shouldn't feel the connection with this guy. He's a monster. He's a fucking monster. He's he's a monster. So Alex says that he has Manning as a guest. And then a little bit later, he has another guest on the show who you've never heard of. Representative Steve Toth joins us and he's made national news coming up with

a legislative plan to battle back against this and for the state of Texas to not recognize unconstitutional federal laws. Cool. Earlier, Alex on the show had said that these people like the Steve Toth's who are doing this stuff that, you know, he's a state rep in Texas. Yeah. And he's like, the more you look into, you know, the people who are really fighting, it's like, these are like died in the wool Texans.

These are people who've lived in Texas. He was born in New York and grew up in upstate Rochester. Jesus Christ. So I hate everybody. I hate everybody. So a few things about Steve Toth that I want to tell you about. He's a dick. Yep.

Of course. Well, that's number one. Yeah. Number two. He won his seat in the state House of Representatives in Texas in an election with no Democrat running. He only was up against a candidate from the libertarian party and naturally won easily.

That was in the 2012 race. In 2014, he decided to give up his seat in district 15 and seek election to the state Senate in the 16th district, but lost, ultimately showing that the support he was receiving, most of which came from the Tea Party, wasn't enough to get him back into a possibly more important office, elevated office. Sure. He then ran for the US House of Representatives seat in 2016 and lost in the primary in 2018.

Toth put his tail between his legs and ran once again for the very seat he'd given up back in 2014, the Texas House district 15 seat. He won the seat and ended up right where he left off, which is kind of hilarious considering how high the rate of reelection is for state House of Representatives and how they don't have term limits. He literally just wasted everyone's time and money because of misguided ambition, only to end up in a position he could have held the whole time and actually been doing government work instead of fundraising and campaigning.

I really don't think he's that interested in government work. I don't know if he is. I'm starting to think that he is not interested in like the nuts and bolts of writing good legislation. Might not be. So also he's only in office now because of the significant donations and support of multiple far right political action committees in Texas who hated their former speaker, Joe Strauss, because he was too close to the center.

Of course. Hardline anti-immigrant, anti-choice and anti-Islam groups paid a lot of money to make sure the conservatives who won seats in that election were not the types who like Joe Strauss would be against Trump's Muslim ban or the bills flying around the dictate who can use what bathrooms. These political action committees wanted warriors and Steve Toth was willing to be that to get back in office in 2018. Great job, guys.

One of these groups is Texas Right to Life, which gave Toth $17,500 for his campaign. In that same election cycle, Texas Right to Life received a ton of criticism for turning on anti-choice candidates they'd supported for a long time in favor of new options who were crazy far right. Quote, Texas Right to Life has supported, Texas Right to Life has kind of lost their way and it's unfortunate they are not doing what they started out to do.

That's a quote from Paul Workman, former representative of Texas's 47th district. Workman literally championed legislation that would require women to get a sonogram before receiving an abortion in hopes that making her experience that would change her mind. He supported every anti-choice bill ever introduced, including one that would increase the licensing requirements for abortion providers, the goal of which was pretty explicitly to force tons of clinics to close.

Yeah. The political action committee that donated $17,500 to Steve Toth thought Workman was too middle of the road on abortion. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you take a look at the law Alabama just passed. I can, I guess anything aside from the death penalty for a doctor performing an abortion, it's too close to the center. But I'm trying to give you a sense of what kind of politics these people who are

funding him were looking for. I assume that they are helping the Alabama case as well. I would well know because it's Texas. Oh, it's just some, uh, interstate agreement or whatever. In 2014, the Texas Freedom Network wrote a piece about how Steve Toth was too extreme, even for Texas Republicans. They discussed how he led, uh, a completely fabricated crusade against the Texas school district's curriculum management tools, complaining that their

lessons were quote anti-American and anti-Christian and promoted Marxism and Islam. Also, the article includes this quote, Toth also tells a ridiculous story to promote his opposition to sex education that includes information about birth control during the 2013 legislative session. Toth said his wife knew two unmarried teens who got so hot and bothered at a Planned Parenthood sex education class, which, uh, included information on contraception that the guy couldn't get a condom on before he impregnated his

girl and the girlfriend in the car later. Uh, he used this bullshit argument, uh, than things like that to justify, uh, legislative budget cuts that quote gutted the Texas women's health program and led to quote tens of thousands of low income women losing access to family planning services. Shouldn't that mean that he, that they should have stayed in the sex education class? Not gone to the car.

Yeah. I don't know. No, I don't think it was the sex there. I think they just didn't finish the part of the class where they teach you how to put the condom on. I don't think anyone is getting real horny during, uh, Planned Parenthood sex education. I remember my sex education talk and, uh, well, I actually had a super hard

right, uh, sex education teacher who told me that, uh, having sex without a condom was like putting your hand into a vat of, uh, uh, nuclear waste and having sex with a condom was putting a glove on your hand when you put it into a fucking thing of toxic waste. So vaginas are nuclear waste. I think that's what she was telling me. Great. Yeah.

Uh, anyway, Boner City. Yeah, exactly. So Steve Toth was too extreme for the Texas Republican Party in 2014, but not anymore. No, no, no, no, no. Now we're good. That should be an indication of things. Yeah.

It's gone great. Yeah. We're not going to listen to anything. Uh, I like, I like to play a new game called, uh, the GOP or ISIS and just pick quotes. Uh, we're not going to listen to anything, uh, Steve Toth has to say on the show, the interview is super boring. It's really just a case of Alex Jones bringing in a lunatic state politician, uh,

to his show, to do a dog and pony show, them agreeing with his ideas, to lend some kind of governmental credibility to the things he's putting out. Yeah. It's mostly just Alex yelling about how they should arm teachers and Steve agreeing and Alex talking about how it's time to impeach Obama and Steve pretending he could do anything about that in the Texas house of representatives. Steve Toth is saying that he's all good. No, no, no, no.

He's not saying he's going to, but it's just sort of like Alex has a government representative on, right? And because, you know, impeachment starts in the house, uh, there's an easy there, okay, federal and state government in a very different house. Yeah. Gotcha. So the interview is kind of pointless, but then something huge happens. I don't just get up here.

Most websites have an IT problem and they say we got hacked. We got, you know, this or that years ago, somebody hacked our website and posted an image of a naked woman on a motorcycle on the front page. Um, we've had plenty of denial of service attacks coming out of China, uh, coming out of Japan, but out of US military bases, they use them to basically zombie the computers to the attackers. We've had all sorts of attacks that go on. I don't talk about it, but I've had senior cybersecurity people.

You know, who've been in government and out of government saying, I don't know how you keep your side up. And there's been a lot of hackers out there that have also given us tips and helped us and we're eternally thankful for that. We've got some great IT people, uh, but in the last two weeks, we've had two different dirty tricks done that are very sophisticated. I'm not going to get into what they did or what they exploited, but it's government level type stuff.

You clicked on a fucking email. You idiot. And it's very sophisticated. You got fish. And so we've got to basically watch the site 24 hours a day. Now I'm having to hire more IT people just to watch the 24 hours a day. I'm hiring an outside consulting firm to be able to deal with this. Uh, and then they went ahead and hit us with an old fashioned denial of

service attack. It's, it's undoubtedly, we are getting a lot of traffic today and traffic's much higher than it's ever been, but we were thinking early on, this is an all time record traffic, which it pretty much would be or almost a record, but we can see, and they've got graphs in there that I want to get shots. All that's a new report cause this is newsworthy showing that it's, it's, it's, it's denial of service from a whole bunch of zombie computers, government computers, hijacked university computers.

You name it. Why the minute Obama started speaking today, Oh God, no, um, about five minutes before he did when Joe Biden was up. There is one that started the site is up right now for now. And it appears they're very upset about the move to impeach Obama. So this is where Alex really takes a narcissistic swing for the fences. This is bullshit crazy. This is bullshit.

This isn't happening. Um, he'd been complaining other days about, uh, the website being down and he very specifically was talking about because they're trying to upgrade the site. Yeah. So whatever tech issues they've been having have been lingering because they're trying to update, uh, a new version like info wars, 2.0, a web 2.0 presence. Oh my God. So instead of, uh, saying that they don't have that great of an IT staff,

staff sucks. Yeah. He's, he's saying that he's getting hacked by man. The IT staff has the best gig. Yeah. Anytime you're fucking up, just be like, Oh, we're hacked. Yeah. And he'd buy it's denial of service attack.

Oh man. That is good stuff. It's the government. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine being able to just lie to your boss like that and no, he would believe it.

And it helps Alex too, because it helps him create the idea that Obama's afraid of Alex putting out articles of impeachment and the idea that as soon as he got on stage for that press conference, a tax came because they couldn't handle the idea of Alex being able to respond to his, what Obama was saying. So fucking crazy. But we've seen him do this exact same thing in the past. We've seen him use, um, imagined, uh, denial of service attacks and, and hackings and stuff like that, just to fit his narratives.

Yeah. And that's what he's doing here. A hundred percent. What an asshole. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. So, uh, Alex loves to talk movies and, uh, I think, I think it would be fair to say that, um, he generally misses the point.

Um, I mean, well, let's see, how did he do with the Watchman? Ozzy Mandamus is the good guy. He didn't get that one. No, he didn't do that one so well. Um, it tends to be oftentimes in stories of heroes and villains. He has, uh, he has difficulty discerning, um, which is, which he's not good with comic book movies either. Comic books are bad, but it turns out comedies are also bad for them.

Okay. So I have to sit here. You know, that's why I'm getting so angry is this is like Groundhog Day. You see that great movie, Groundhog Day with Bill Murray. Oh God, no. And, you know, he just, I mean, it's the same day over and over again. No matter what he does, he has to relive this day over and over again. So Alex is expressing, he feels like he's in Groundhog Day because he just

keeps seeing the globalists, metal and everyone, you're like, here's what I would say, the point of that movie is that Bill Murray is an asshole. Yes. And the only thing that gets him out of the time loop is not being an asshole. Yeah. It's him realizing that the way he's been living his life has been completely wrong and that doing things for others is actually a much better way to live. And then he gets to go to the next day.

Finally, once he grows through the despair and the, the futility of killing himself and all this, if Alex really feels like he's living Groundhog Day, I would advise him to consider the message of that movie. Maybe you're an asshole. Here's the problem. Um, what's his, uh, shit. What's his name? Bill Murray.

No, no, no, no, the Andy McDowell. No, the guy who directed it. Oh, Ramis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he said in an interview that, uh, Bill Murray's character was actually trapped in that time loop for like millions of years.

Yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't give me much hope for Alex getting to the other side. No. Anytime soon. But it would be immediate for us. Yes. It'd be a long time for him, but it would just be any other day for us.

We just got to get him into that situation. Yeah. Where did, where was that movie filmed? Let's go on a, let's go on a vacation. Punctutani? Yeah, let's head there. All right. Let's bring Alex on a road trip.

I think it's fascinating that like, along with his inability to differentiate truth and fiction, he also has no idea how to engage with the message of fiction. Yeah. Yeah. It's so nuts. Yeah. Like anybody who watched Groundhog Day would get on some level.

It's the only way to. It's a cautionary tale about being a dick. Yeah. He was an asshole at the beginning and then he leaves the time loop when he's not an asshole. There's only one lesson in the movie. Yeah. It's great.

Yeah. Steven Tobolowsky's best work. Great. Love it. So in his next clip, Alex goes to calls and Mike down for this because I think we might have found a real bad dude calling him. Okay. All right, I'm going to stop Andy in Africa.

I didn't know somebody was calling from Africa. Where are you calling us from Africa? I'm calling from Africa, Alex. Welcome. You're on the air. Where are you calling from in Africa? Oh, the good part, the southern part. South Africa.

That's it. That's right, Alex. The good part. No, that's a bad, that's a bad start. Oh, God, he's an Africana, isn't he? It's a bad start. People. Oh, God, I don't want to.

Oh, God, they're the worst. So that dude, you can tell is probably what you might describe as a racist South African. No. But what's interesting is his call isn't about that. That's the extent of his just flippant racism. Yeah. In this next clip, he gets to what he actually wants to talk about.

And man, I'm glad this came up. As you mentioned, your web servers have been going down. Well, you're not the only one, so to speak. I am a web developer and researcher, and I'm here to tell you that the Illuminati is back online breaking news. Now, what do I mean by that? Good question. Remember the Illuminati card game, right?

Yes. Okay. Interesting thing is this card game spotted out as an online game. Okay. Running on what we would call an Illuminati server, I guess, which was a DDS system. So the game started on a server and then Steve Jackson's games was raided by the Secret Service and they confiscated the server and the data that was on that

server. The game was never supposed to get out. According to Stephen Dolan said to be an ex-status high priest to expose the game in the process. By the way, the maker of the Illuminati card game and the video game developer, he has his offices about two miles from us. We've called him no exaggeration, probably 40 times. I keep saying when we get time, we're going to go over there.

Don't do that. You look very confused. How are people this stupid, this successful? You mean the South African guy? I don't know how the South African guy is. Yeah, we don't know if he's successful. No, we don't, but God, this is dumb. This is dumb.

You don't even know anything about this. I don't and I don't need to. So the Illuminati card game is one of the most perfect conspiracy things in the world and I'm so glad that this dumb racist South African caller decided to bring it up. And that Alex is indicating that he's into it and thinks it's real. Well, I mean, the card game itself is real, but I'm, it's so amazing that Alex thinks it could be an Illuminati plot to reveal their plans and use lesser

magic on the public. See, that's what I thought they were. It is. Okay. That's the theory. Yeah. How are people this dumb? It's amazing.

Yeah. So the short version of how this goes is it goes like this. Illuminati is a card game that was created by Steve Jackson Games in 1982. The goal of the game is to take on the role of a secret society, which goes on to take over the world. It was a very successful game in the circles that played massively complicated card games in the early 80s and it's spawned expansion packs that have been released over the years, the most recent coming out in 2010.

The concept of the game started out with Steve Jackson, considering creating an adaptation of Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminati trilogy, but deciding that that would be too convoluted and way too confusing. So I'm not even going to give that a shot. So instead, he just made a mostly convoluted and confusing game. It's apparently not as confusing as it seems. Yeah. Yeah.

The game itself. I've never played it, but I'd love it. How many really hard to find though. It's what the main one, I think is out of print, but you can find them. I'd like to give it a shot. Yeah, I would too. So what Steven Jackson realized he could do while he couldn't adapt the Illuminati trilogy, he could take the basic ideas of the trilogy, like the

notion of grand conspiracies being behind everything and use that as the central concept of his game that proved to be a viable jump off point. And after Jackson did a ton of research into conspiracy theory worlds to gather some specific details to add texture to the game, he created it and released it to quite a bit of a claim. The nerds loved it. But someone who didn't have such high praise for the game was Robert Anton Wilson, who felt like his work was being ripped off and it was changed just

enough so he couldn't sue them. Yeah, he was very mad about it. Yeah, I get it. So it's important to remember that the Illuminati trilogy is a work of satire. It's meant to kind of make fun of and mock the patterns of reasoning used in conspiracy theory. And Jackson's card game is an extension of that. The cards are over the top by design.

Naturally, because it's parody. That means when you, as is always the case, when you make a satire about conspiracy theories, it becomes a conspiracy theory. Well, see, there are a couple cards in the 1994 expansion pack that's called New World Order. They're pretty wild in hindsight. One of them is the terrorist nuke card. And the visual on that card is a nuke being shot into one of the twin towers.

So while the imagery is pretty similar to what you'd see with 9-11, the game was made right after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993. So it does make it might not be as crazy as it seems just on first glance, right? Conspiracy theorists use that card and a couple others to make the argument that Steve Jackson knew it was coming and that this game is proof revealing in advance lesser magic tricks. Yeah, you know, people often do that like, oh, this movie or this book predicted the World Trade Center, the World Trade Center being bombed.

But so also did the World Trade Center being bombed the first time predicts that it would be bombed again. Right. You know, right. Like nobody predicted the World Trade Center bombing better than the first World Trade Center. Right. And this is one of the things that people play fast and loose with is like the

original deck came out in 1982, but the one that included the terrorist nuke card came out in 94. So when conspiracy theorists talk about these cards, they usually talk about it having a, it came out in 82 and predicted 9-11 when that card came out after the first World Trade Center bombing. So it was fresh in people's minds. It's all these cheap games they play. Also, these conspiracy theorists are less prone to use the following cards to

make their arguments about predictive programming. Atomic monster, which is, which is Godzilla. Yes, yeah, yeah, of course. It's just a way to not get sued, but have Godzilla in your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bigfoot, Count Dracula, Dan Quayle holding out a potato. Yeah, yeah. That one probably would do the job.

Flying saucers, literal gremlins, the hammer of Thor. Which gremlins? Literal ones. Well, I mean, are we talking Mogwai gremlins or are we talking Tolkien gremlins? Mogwai. Hitler's brain in a jar, the Loch Ness monster, the Necronomicon. Love it. Plague of demons.

This is like Sim City when you can do all the disasters. Robot sea monsters and plenty of others. Two of the groups you can choose to play as your secret society, your Illuminati, you can choose to play as are the servants of Cthulhu and the lost civilization of Shangri-La. Well, now I know who you're playing. Probably Cthulhu. The game is a parody of conspiracy and to some extent even takes shots at itself.

One of the cards in the deck is trading card games and features a suspicious man opening his trench coat to reveal cards inside that he's clandestinely selling. Of course. I've never played it, but all the reviews I've read make it seem like a really fun game that uses interesting strategy elements. And it's won at least four Origins awards, the first of which was being the best science fiction board game award in 1982. So it's not like this is some kind of a secret thing that accidentally got out

like that guy is trying to suggest the race at South African collar. That idea is fucking absurd. All right, I want this game so bad now. I would love to track it down. Also, Alex should know better than to say that this card game is in any way a real Illuminati game. You see, there's a card in the deck, the agent in place card, which is the game's version of an infiltrator or spy for your Illuminati group.

The picture on that card bears a striking resemblance to Alex Jones, really, which is something that the conspiracy world has not, not noticed. That one, uh, when did that one in 94? That was, that was the 94 attack. So it's hard for me to think that this is anything more than a coincidence. It could be a winking joke on Steve Jackson's part. Cause the card, like I said, it came out in 1994. And at that point, Alex was on Austin local excess and Jackson does

operate out of Austin. So it's possible that he would have been aware of Alex and it would be a winking joke. Yeah. But my problem is that the card looks a lot like later day, Alex, and not a lot, like 94. Ah, so the dude isn't pretty ripped. No, he looks like, uh, his chubby, uh, present self.

Gotcha. More than, uh, the past. So I don't know. I think it's probably just a coincidence that conspiracy people have built, uh, a new wrinkle on to this game. And I was taking a lot of shots for it. That'd be fun if he didn't take any. There was no like conspiracy theory that he predicted 9 11 only.

He did predict that Alex was going to be fat with a huge net. He nailed that prediction. And he's talking into a mustard, uh, contain a mustard bottle as a phone. As for Steve Jackson games getting raided, that had nothing to do with this Illuminati card game. Like I mentioned earlier, that game won the best sci-fi board game award in 1982. And the raid didn't happen until March 1st, 1990. The decks involving all the cards that conspiracy theorists point to were

still four years away from being made when the raid went down itself. The issue was that Steve Jackson games hosted a bulletin board for users to interact on called Illuminati. One of the operators of that board was a hacker named Lloyd Blankenship, uh, and the Secret Service had tracked down a stolen document with proprietary information about Bell South's 9 1 1 system to that bulletin board and another one run by Blankenship. The court documents reflect the agents based a search warrant on the fact that

quote, there had been an unlawful intrusion on the Bell South computer system. The 9 1 1, uh, Bell South document was a sensitive and proprietary document and the computer hackers were attempting to utilize a decryption procedure whereby unlawful intrusions could be made to computer programs, including the defense department. And these hackers were soliciting, uh, passwords so that the decryption procedure could become operational. Oh boy.

There was a little bit of a misunderstanding that happened in the investigation. However, Blankenship ran this message board for Steve Jackson games, uh, and also ran a hacker board called Phoenix, which was way more of the sort of thing that the Secret Service would be investigating. Yeah. However, when agent Foley arrived at the Illuminati message board for Steve Jackson games, he saw this greeting and got the wrong idea about it.

Quote greetings mortal. Okay. All right. Of course, this is the, this is fucking dragnet FBI agent reading this, just like these people have got to go. You've entered the secret computer system of the Illuminati, the online home of the world's oldest and largest secret conspiracy, fronted by Steve Jackson games incorporated.

Of course, of course that FBI agent was just, oh God, because he didn't understand the humor of the site, Foley thought that there was an indication that this message board, uh, run for game enthusiasts was wrapped up in the 9 1 1 document and malicious hacking with the game company being a fake front business. Oh my God. There's such such a pre it's such a pre online agent too. It's just like, I don't understand these kids with their computers. The fact that Blankenship was an employee of Steve Jackson games didn't help.

And with that, the game company got included in the raid and their computers and materials were seized from there. Everything went to shit. The investigators had created a mess because they'd failed to do their homework. They quote knew or had the ability to learn that the seizure of the Illuminati bulletin board included private and public electronic communications and email, the seizure of which was not within the scope of their warrant and was a breach of the Privacy Protection Act.

By the next day after the raid, Steve Jackson had requested his stuff back, which experts estimated should have been able to have been copied if needed and returned to him in hours and no more than within eight days. He would not get his things back until late June, 1990, approximately three and a half months later, which was a huge problem for him running his business because they'd confiscated all this shit. What the fuck? Yeah, a bunch of assholes.

Steve Jackson ended up suing the Secret Service and yeah, of course. He got $50,000 in statutory damages and $250,000 in lawyers fees. The judge did find that the raid had ultimately not caused financial hardship, however, so he wasn't awarded those damages. The reasoning was that the company had been in bad financial shape at the time and the raid had actually raised their profile considerably. Plus, Steve had created a game based on the raid that was selling quite well. So they just decided it was a wash.

The idea that they didn't actually knock out profits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was able to recoup every, I don't know. I'm not super thrilled with that. I still think they should have paid more. I would have gone with punitive damages, but that's 50,000 statutory damages. Yeah, that's not enough. Yeah, that's not enough.

It's debatable. Weirdly, Lloyd Blankenship was not found guilty of anything and no one was charged with a crime, so it might have all been for nothing. So it was a giant waste of time. Maybe, but I also kind of suspect that that non-charging might have had something to do with how bungled this raid was. Yeah. The objective was this stolen 9-1-1 document, but even if they were able

to establish that Blankenship had stolen it, which I'm not sure they ever did establish, taking this to trial would be a fucking nightmare. Yeah. And so I bet they just like washed their hands of this. Yeah, that's, that would be smart on their part. Yeah. Anyway, that's why Steve Jackson games got raided and how the raid may have inadvertently saved his business.

Yeah. It has nothing to do with the Illuminati card game or the government trying to stop him from getting their secrets out. In reality, the court documents make it clear that agent Foley quote, conducted no investigation about Steve Jackson games incorporated, although a reasonable investigation of only several hours would have revealed that Steve Jackson games was in fact a legitimate publisher of information to the public and Mr. Jackson would have cooperated in the investigation.

They fucked this up top to bottom. They do nothing. Yeah. Like the court filing makes it very clear that they didn't even know they made games, let alone this Illuminati game. Really? Yeah. Wow.

Also, just to be, your, your honor, in my client's defense, they're really bad at their jobs case, the defense rests. Also, just to be totally clear about this, the caller has his timeline completely messed up. At the time of the raid, Steve Jackson games was working on and about to release a role playing game called Grups cyberpunk or Grups is an acronym for generic universal role playing system. Um, it was a way that you could, you, you could play RPGs on bulletin boards

with this guidebook. Yeah. Grups cyberpunk. I remember there was a, there was a back when I was super into Dragon Ball Z. Uh, there was this message board that I went to on an Angel fire site and there was this whole like complicated role playing. Lousy with that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. 01:32:04,020 --> 01:32:04,340 Yeah. The Grups, the generic universal role playing system was a response to the idea that a lot of these games are really fun, but they only could be played in certain environments. Right.

Like D and D could only be played as this fantasy quest thing or, you know, other ones where sci-fi in nature, whereas the generic universal role playing system developed by Steve Jackson games could be used for all sorts of different types of role playing adventures. Right. So like, So this was a cyberpunk one. If you wanted to have a role playing adventure that was just straight up office

culture and you're just, you're like, you're rolling six to see if you make small talk that time, that would be fine. You could do that. Yeah. Okay, cool. This is a cyberpunk iteration of this that was being worked on when they got raided and it interfered with the release of it. That's the game that the callers confusing with the Illuminati card game.

The card game came out eight years earlier, but ultimately it sounds better if that's what Steve was working on when he was raided. Yeah, for sure. Because the conspiracy isn't that juicy when it's just a guidebook for a cyberpunk role playing game. Yeah, that probably doesn't sound good. No. So this is all bullshit, but I find this stuff so interesting.

Like whenever there's these sorts of kernels of, I guess you'd call it conspiracy lore, there's almost always a better story behind it. That these conspiracy theorists are completely missing in order to make their fake story. Yeah. Cause that's a great fucking story. Also, that's right up your alley. That's government malfeasance.

Totally. That's shitty police work. That's that's a private citizen having a shit taken away and stolen from him. It's a comical level of ineptitude from these agents. Yeah, it's like burn after reading or some shit like that. It would. Yeah. I don't know if it has enough material for a movie, but the scene is out of a

movie. Yeah, these cops just completely just screwing it up, but that doesn't stop Alex from saying this. Uh, yeah, his card game predicts everything and I don't know how they did it. It's, it's bizarre. Atomic monster. Probably let's go with atomic monster. I'm going to go with they were talking to an atomic monster.

There's basically just like this card that shows the, uh, one of the twin towers getting hit. Yeah, that's it. That's all the, that's all you need. He's proved or he's predicted everything. That's all these people need. It's the, what is it? The border for entry into conspiracy.

Uh, is, is as low as a deck of cards so low. Yeah. Um, so now Alex, uh, takes a call on air, uh, from someone that he thinks is the, uh, the BBC, the British broadcasting company. Uh, turns out it is a media outlet, but it's not the BBC. The BBC has called my phone. No exaggeration 30, 40 times today. I'm going to take this right now.

Hello. Is this the BBC? I TV, uh, what it was that's out of Canada, right? Ma'am, ma'am, I lost my phone and then I never put the voicemail back on it. Did you just do me a favor? I'm going to be off the air in about 15 minutes or so. Why don't you text this? Yeah, it will just be exactly just text this number, your name and number and all.

I, or somebody will get back with you. Okay. Thank you. This rings nonstop. Every TV station you can imagine. I'm not even, I should be doing all these interviews. I'm just too burnt out, man. So this is also part of that narcissistic aggrandizement, you know, like this idea

of like these people are just a hound in me, nonstop to have me on their shows. It goes along with the, um, you know, the government's targeting me as soon as I put out this Obama impeachment thing. It's kind of a way of focusing that same energy of the naval gazing. I was on Piers Morgan stuff and using it to facilitate the anti-Obama narrative or the Obama impeachment narrative that is the current theme of the show. And he definitely didn't have to take that call on air, didn't, but it sure does make him look good when he takes that call.

Oh, it's so intentional. I have to take this call and then literally in the call, he's like, I'm going to be off air in about 15 minutes. I could have just called you back 15 minutes from now or during any commercial break. There's no reason to do this. There's no reason to do this except to demonstrate to your audience, I'm in demand and it's from the BBC. Oh, this person isn't the BBC, but they still are calling me.

Don't trust me. Don't worry about all kinds of TV networks so far. Just the ITV network, right? So remember how I told you that Steve Toth did some really damaging things to women's health in Texas because of his bullshit story about people fucking after a health class. It really shouldn't be that low of a bar to get people's lives ruined. Well, but that's a story he used like as this fake anecdote to be like, you know,

sex education is really just gets people horny and then they fuck. Yeah, yeah. I think that that's a stupid thing for him to think. Yes. And it blew my mind that Alex later in the same episode says this. It's it's like sex ed. I remember sitting there in like seventh grade or in sex ed. They're sitting there talking about sex and I'm looking over at the cheerleader

next to me, you know, she's looking over at me. I think the point is it makes her body go have sex, folks. That's insane. What? That's nuts. Looking at the like the bisected human woman's fucking reproductive system. It's going. Is that's what's going on there?

It's you going. Jesus Christ. I mean, I remember in health class, I think this is fairly universal. It's uncomfortable. Yeah, it's the teachers are uncomfortable. Nobody likes it. Nobody wants it. People are writing questions on a piece of paper and then handing it to

or like putting it in a bucket so nobody knows who is asking this question about sex. Yeah, it's it's not a horny making experience. That's fucked up. But it was for Alex. If whatever Alex is looking at in in that class is deeply uncomfortable, the uncomfortable thing, the completely bizarre interpretation of sex education existing with these two people on the same show. And it doesn't it's not like that came up in their interview where like Steve

Toth was expressing this and then Alex is mirroring it. They just they just both they just both believe it. Yeah, that's crazy. Very weird. You know, we grew up in the Midwest, though, or no, we're in Texas. Yeah, exactly. He's in Texas. Toth is in Rochester, Rochester, New York.

Maybe it's different there. Must be. Maybe it's different there. Maybe the Midwest is the only place with discomfort about sex education. Flyover country is an uncomfortable sex education country. That means that almost every coming of age movie must be set in the Midwest. I think a lot of them are. Yeah, some.

So this is the only clip where Sandy Hook really comes up in this episode. Alex very clearly expresses that he thinks Adam Lanze is a patsy. But then where he goes from there is really weird. And Mike down for this, because the path of thought must be traced. Adam Lanze, the patsy or whoever he is, the walked out of his mind. The cover of the Hollywood movie about mind control. Same look and all these guys eyes on psychotropic under psychiatric care. They fought like a devil to keep that from coming out.

His family's on record now. He tried to buy a gun five times and couldn't get one. I mean, obviously going to gun shop plus his mental illness was in the health record. He got filed and he looked like he was whacked out of his brain. I've been at gun shows with private dealers. You know, somebody saw off their collection. They don't sell to people that look like very legal aliens. They don't sell to people that don't talk to you before they sell you a gun.

And so what if you're a felon? Most felons were innocent. That's a weird train of thought. What? Yeah. What? First of all, what? There's a lot. There's a lot in a couple seconds there.

First of all, Alex has been to a lot of gun shows where they don't sell to you if you look like an illegal immigrant. Does Adam Lanze look like an illegal immigrant? It seems apropos of nothing. That is crazy. Yeah, I don't know what he's expressing other than they only sell to white people. Yeah, I think that's exactly what he's expressing. That has nothing to do with the rest of the conversation.

He really doesn't. Very weird. Very. And then so what if you're a felon? Most felons are innocent. You want to talk about criminal justice reform? I'm here for that, but I don't. Criminal justice reform starts with giving felons guns after they get out of prison.

Alex actually literally says that. He starts talking about how like back in the day, if you got sent to prison while you were holding a shotgun, when you got out of prison, they'd be like, here's your shotgun back. That seems like a bad policy, though. I think he got that from watching like F troop. Yeah, that's got to be lower. I think that's from like old Western TV shows like Bonanza. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, that's like, that's like a story of somebody sleeping one off and then they still get their shotgun back from the fucking local sheriff. Yeah. Not if you use the shotgun to get into prison in the first place. I don't know.

Maybe that is the case in like in Texas. Sure. I don't know. I don't, I don't like what he's probably saying with the most felons are innocent thing. Cause I don't think I don't trust his, he doesn't elaborate on it. I don't trust him, but I do think, I mean, like people who are in for like felony drug possessions and stuff like that, they shouldn't be stripped of their rights. Hell no.

That's sort of, yeah. So I mean, you shouldn't be stripped of your rights even if you're a felon. Right. There's, there's a lot of room for conversation there. Yeah. But Alex saying that they don't sell to people who look like illegal immigrants is bonkers. It's unacceptable and very weird that he doesn't elaborate. And he said people who look like illegally immigrants, he had no, no qualms about saying

look like. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Strange. Well, earlier when he was going over, uh, uh, uh, sorry, uh, Obama's speech, you know, he's talking about this urban, uh, crime and you know, that's, so there's a little code there.

You're seeing a little bit of code here. I think, I think whenever he talks about his gun issues, it does seem that there's a weird little bit of coded language that keeps coming up. Huh. Yeah. It is strange. It's almost like the guns are there to protect him from, boy, I can't, I don't know how to finish that sentence.

I don't know. That's an interesting thought. And I think you're responsible for thinking it. Yeah. So in this next clip, Alex has a plan to scout, stop school shootings. Um, and of course we know it's armed. Burn schools down. Why not?

It's armed teachers. He has a very specific, uh, idea of who to arm. I mean, I'll tell you who you are. I'm the football coaches. I mean, this is no no brainer. No, you are horrible people. Obviously no weird science teacher. You know, everybody knows as a perv or whatever.

Uh, and, uh, you know, as a psychological evaluation. I mean, I'm all for that just because, you know, you might end up getting a crazy someday as a teacher that kills people. Plus the kids are so out of control. What when you're getting assaulted? My point is to do psychological profiling hot and arm the teachers. You just explain all the reasons not to harm teachers. Just explain why it's a terrible idea.

Can you imagine the nightmare scenario of a teacher shooting up a school? Oh my God. Yeah. Or, you know, something getting out of hand and teacher accidentally shooting. Or just a teacher brandishing a gun. Terrible. The idea of you like also you're, oh, these two kids are talking and then a guns on the table.

Fuck you. Yeah. Also the idea of arming the football coaches. I need not discuss that other than to say Dave Dobbin Meyer. Sandusky. Oh God. By my high school football coach. You know, not every football coach is a lunatic, but some of them are.

It sure seems like they attract. I would say maybe it's equivalent to the science teachers who are weird. Yeah. Maybe it's the same rate. Yeah. Maybe worse. I don't know. Have you ever read anything about Nick Saban?

He's a fucking lunatic. Speaking of lunatics, you've noticed this narcissistic trend that does seem manufactured in Alex. The idea that he's doing this fake denial of service stuff. Yeah. Obama's really worried about our petition. Terrified. In this next clip, he finally gets around to playing some of the clips of Obama's speech and Alex becomes convinced that Obama is talking about him.

Okay. Let's go to this bizarre 1647 clip pundits saying it's all about all out assault by tyrants on liberty. Let's go to Obama responding to his critics. Here it is. This will be difficult. There will be pundits and politicians and special interest lobbyists publicly warning the tyrannical all out assault on liberty.

Not because that's true, but because they want to gin up fear or higher ratings or revenue for themselves. Oh, I wonder who you're talking about, punk. And behind the scenes, they'll do everything they can to block any common sense reform and make sure nothing changes whatsoever. Oh, yeah. The only way we will be able to change is if their audience, their constituents, their members stop right there.

What that is a profound statement. And he's thinking about Alex Jones. He's thinking about Matt Drudge. He's thinking about Glenn Beck. He's thinking about Larry Pratt, Wayne LaPierre. I mean, guaranteed because the White House has responded to me before. And it's come out that Homeland Security's got files on Matt Drudge and Alex Jones and all this stuff.

And there's been lawsuits over, but they won't release them by infra-guard. That's board member of the NRA, Bob Barr, former congressman. Bob Barr. I mean, they're talking about us. Bob Barr, King of the Elephants. That is a lunatic level of grandiosity. I mean, I think he probably is thinking about someone like Wayne LaPierre because he's then the head of the NRA.

You know, it's like, yeah, probably, I don't know if Larry Pratt is necessarily on Obama's radar. He's probably on someone's radar, but maybe not the president's. He's talking about ratings. He's probably talking about Rush Limbaugh. He's probably not talking about Alex Jones. No. Maybe Glenn Beck.

Maybe. In terms of relevance at this point in 2013, Alex doesn't rank with those other people that he's, this is insane. That wouldn't come about for another four years. Just because Obama is describing behavior that is similar to what Alex does. If not one to one, exactly what Alex is about to do in response to it. Right. Yeah.

Just because that does not mean that he's thinking of Alex. I think Obama has probably never cared about Alex. Yeah, I would go there. I would, I would guess he's not see, oh man, how awesome would it be to get high with Obama and watch dreams of my real father? That documentary Alex put out about Obama's dad being Frank Marshall Davis would be fit. We'll get high and watch the Obama deception. Yeah.

No, I can't do that again. That would be amazing. Yeah. I guess we've already burned ourselves out on that. You would have to give me really high. So one of the things that I think is important to point out here other than Alex is just being completely narcissistic and making everything about himself intentionally because it works for the theme of what he's trying to do.

Right. The other thing is he makes it very clear that he hasn't watched any of these clips. He doesn't know what is happening. Yeah. He's just riffing on whatever the staff plays him. Yeah. I'm going to be honest with you. Again, I didn't watch that full speech and I was only reading these quotes.

That was a stunning quote. So yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to play that over you, but yeah, he's, yeah, he's just, I didn't, I didn't watch it. I didn't watch this. That's stunning. You know what I find fascinating? Yeah.

Is he does correct, he picks out people who are going to do what Obama said. What do you mean? I mean, other people that Alex listed and him. Yeah. All of those people. Yes. Which suggests he knows that's what he's doing. Right.

He, he can't possibly. And that's why he cut off the part of the clip before he got to the part where Obama said the only way we're going to make progress is if these people's followers and listeners and constituencies understand the issue. Right. Of course, but it's, it's like, if you weren't doing that stuff, if the people you're listing weren't doing that stuff, they wouldn't be the first names out of your mouth. Do you know what I mean?

I think he could probably rebut that by saying like the reason that I thought of those people is because they're the people who are demonized and the enemies of the globalists or something. But even though Glenn Beck is generally a globalist shill, according to, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean. I think, I think, I think it's actually correct. Just not.

I just don't think it would be a nail in the coffin for Alex. I think it would be easy for him to wiggle around that. Right. I see what you're saying. Now, this next clip made me very excited. Alex is getting really defensive about being on Piers Morgan and yelling at him. And he tries to express that he wasn't having a debate with him because it wasn't a good faith kind of debate.

Yeah. He was yelling at him because he deserved it. And it was, I wasn't there to have a conversation, that sort of thing. But as he starts thinking about it, he decides that he's got to come up with an example of a good faith conversation, negotiation, debate. Okay. All right. All right.

Let's see where this goes. Listen to where his mind goes. They cannot stand the fact that I got up there and said, you want to take our guns, you want to enslave us. That was the number one story in the country for two days. They were talking about Alex Jones first and foremost. That's why we need your prayers because they go, oh, you're discredited. You're yelling at us.

You're calling us criminals. That's not a real debate. You're not a real person having a real debate. You're not like my neighbor coming over and going, hey, we ought to, we don't have enough land to have an agriculture exemption. But if we combine together and get an agriculture exemption, we can get off on our taxes. You know, if we put honeybees on it or maybe a cow or two, how's that sound? You want to do that?

Man, that's a really good idea. Yeah, that'll lower our taxes massively. You know, I've been so busy. I'm really having that time to go, you know, talk to you. I'm glad you reached out to do that. Yeah, let's do that. I waited so long, the neighbor went ahead and just bought some more properties. They can do it.

They're still nice enough. I'm going to talk to them to let me merge in with them. But the point is that's a negotiation. That's a good faith. You know, talking to my neighbor, hey, how you doing there? Jesse or whoever the neighbor is. How are you doing today? Let's talk about as regular people, nice, calm voices.

Hey, come on in and have a cup of coffee. First of all, his neighbor is definitely named Jesse. Yeah, there's, I think he was trying to think of a fake name for him. Fuck it. It's Jesse. It's Jesse. And I'm going to give his name and address. Does he think that's a debate?

No, but I think it's weird. It's very specific. And even if he hadn't said like, this is actually a conversation I've had, like the fact that it's so specific means like you absolutely, you absolutely had. So Jordan, the first thing I want to make note of here is that if Alex is considering converting his land to agricultural use to skirt property taxes, he's got to be talking about acres of land he's working with. Cause otherwise that wouldn't make any sense.

Secondly, he's absolutely talking about a conversation. He definitely had with his neighbor Jesse about committing tax fraud. Yeah, it does seem like they did that. According to the Texas comptroller's office, there are certain criteria that must be met in order to qualify for an agricultural exemption. One, quote, the land must be currently devoted principally to agricultural use. The fact that Alex is saying, fuck it will throw some bees in there tells me this criteria is not met. Two, agricultural land must be devoted to production at a level of intensity that is

generally accepted in the local area. That seems unlikely again based on the haphazard bee plan that Alex is coming up. Maybe we'll get a coward too. Yeah, I don't know how much production is locally acceptable. A little bit of honey. Tiny bit. Tiny bit. Three, quote, the land must have been devoted to agriculture timber production for at least

five of the past seven years. Unless Alex has been running a stealthy boutique honey business, he's been failing to plug for the last half decade. It seems like he's over three on the criteria required for an agricultural tax exemption. Alex seems like he's just talking shit here, and it sounds like he can't get his shit together enough to actually get this plan in motion with his neighbor. But if he did, that is definitely a tax crime. absent any evidence that he's actually followed through with this.

I'm just going to leave this here as an example of Alex being very, very stupid. But I do want to point out that when he has to come up with an example of a straight up good faith negotiation, his mind goes to conspiring with his neighbor to defraud the IRS. That's nuts. Yup, yup, yup. That's also a negotiation is not a debate. No, no. And it's neither of those.

It's a conversation. Yeah. And I mean, it's probably, you know. Yeah, he just described like a little, hey, you want to do this? Yeah, sure. That was it. That's his idea of what a debate is. I guess.

Yeah. It's probably trite to mention this, but the only people who really get hurt by agricultural exemption fraud are, I mean, everyone. Yeah. Because tax dollars go away that need to be made up somewhere else and it could be passed down to all other consumers. And then also other people who rely on tech, agricultural tax provisions. So Alex is really only hurting the people he pretends to support.

Yeah. With that sort of a move. But again, I don't know if he actually followed through with it and I don't know how I would ever find that out short of leaving a blind item or like an anonymous tip with the Texas Comptroller. And I don't think that that's worth our time. I don't know. How about we put out something on the Craigslist misconnections thing?

I don't know. I saw you. You live next door. We were going to, you know, we were talking about committing tax fraud. Yeah. You know, so from here on Alex kind of just gets lost in a whole thinking about how exciting it is that Obama is talking about him. But you notice the president in his press conference, what'd he say?

He said, they're going to be people saying this is tyranny. They're going to be people saying the government's evil. And he does this little gangster satisfaction. He goes, he's not even a good liar now. He goes, and they're lying. They're wrong. I mean, that is the most incredible thing. The president of the United States is directly responding to us.

There's no doubt. Really? No doubt. And I've entered this insane vortex where I've got all these pundits on. Really? And they're saying, yeah, Alex, you're pretty much the most prominent voice now. I didn't even want that. That's not convincing.

Really? I didn't even want to be the most popular. Really, Alex? Really? I didn't even want to be homecoming king. Oh boy. Oh boy. It's unbelievable that the president is talking about me.

Did you hear the giddiness in his voice? Oh yeah. That was insane. That was insane. And considering that he's kind of entirely wrong. Kind of? Yeah. Let's just get through this next clip because it's him making the argument that he's the

main person that Obama was thinking about. I'm a macho guy, and I don't like tyrants, but I got to be honest, it is creepy to have the president responding to you. And let me tell you, they're thinking about a group of people there, but right in the middle. So he is the main center of the group of people that the president is responding to and afraid of. Partially, undoubtedly.

I mean, if you believe all of these things together, it's because Alex has entered impeachment articles on his website that the website gets attacked as soon as Obama gets up for the press conference. The press conference wherein he specifically is talking to Alex. Yeah. This is... Also, it's a reminder. He had to address Alex because Alex's petition got over 100,000 signatures.

Yeah. He didn't address Alex. And it was the press secretary. It wasn't Obama. Exactly. And it was like a formulaic no response. We have taken it under consideration, and we would like to officially tell you to go fuck yourself.

Get bent. Yeah. This is one of those things that if this wasn't coming from someone who's standard to gain a lot of money by creating the perception that the president was responding to him and all this. If that wasn't the context we were hearing this in, I would see this as a mental break. I would see this as a break with reality. For sure.

But because it's all building blocks of something that's very profitable to Alex to create this perception, it really kind of just feels like artificially constructed things that would be scary if they were sincere. Yeah. You know, it's listening to his voice during this. He sounds giddy because Obama, a president who hates him, talked about him. He no longer sounds giddy when Trump, a president who likes him, talks about him. Do you know what I mean?

Kind of. But I don't think that he's giddy thinking about Obama talking about him. I think he's giddy thinking about all the publicity and money that he's going to do. Realizing that Obama had created the optics required to allow him to make the argument that Obama is talking about. Obama has accidentally given Alex all the ammo that he needs to do years of shows, quite frankly. No, this is something that we talked about a long time ago, but the best thing for him

would have been Hillary Clinton being in office, saying stuff like what Obama just said right there. Or when Hillary said that he had a dark heart. Yeah. Something like that. It was like that. He was able to spin for a really long time. For forever.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think the giddiness is more a reflection of that than it is him actually sincerely believing that Obama is directly talking to him through the TV. Yes. And that's a line that I think is kind of important because otherwise I do think that we could be like looking at something that's kind of scary. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I mean, we're living in an Alex. It's scary either way, but it's, I mean, scary on like a, uh-oh, uh-oh, kind of way, as opposed to a scary what he's bringing into the world, right, rhetoric, right, right, right. So earlier I scolded you when you were suggesting that it's possible that Alex really kind of just wants his guns to fight off a certain certain thing. Some people who maybe look and some of that, it seems to be mirrored in a lot of the coded language that he uses when he's talking about guns. Um, and I was just scolding you facetiously, uh, because he literally says that in this

next one. Oh, great. Okay, great. I guess that's the answer is just go after the banks, the foreign banks. I mean, I guess that's it. He's just their agent and they've taken the country over by fraud and now they don't want us armed to ever be able to get our country back because they're planning real tyranny. They want those guns so bad because they're in a race before everything collapses because

if it all collapses, they'll use it to be able to take over and get control. But if we have guns and fight off the roving hordes of welfare people burning things, well they'll play into their hands, will it? So they've got to get guns demonized so they can have cover to wage their homeland security war on gun owners and that's the plan. That is pretty nuts. Wow. Also, I love the beginning of that being like, well, I guess we've got to take on the banks.

Isn't that the premise of your career? Why in 2013 is that a new revelation you're having? It's about time. Also, why are you creating this bizarre nonsense about impeaching the president if you keenly are aware that he's just a front man for the fucking globalists? Well, you got to impeach him. What is impeaching him going to do? You got to impeach him.

No. Yeah, come on. Have a good time. Bullshit. If the world is going to, you know what? Maybe you lose, right? Right. Maybe you lose this conflict.

Maybe the foreign banks take your guns away, which is a totally thing, a totally a thing that could happen. Right. You know what? If you're going to go down, you might as well go down with an impeached president. You know? I guess. So I don't like any of the language he was using.

No. I'm pretty sure he's a giant racist asshole. It does feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go with you. It really feels like he's hiding a lot of those feelings behind what is an unacceptable code.

Now, I'm not going to, now, I could be generalizing with a broad brush. But when somebody who is on the right says welfare people, I think they are saying something different. Yeah. No, totally. Underneath it. No, totally. I think they might be specifically talking about, oh boy, let's call it non-whites.

So in this next clip, Alex gets a call from a guy and much like that racist South African, I think he's a bad dude. I think regarding the Second Amendment, we clarify all the confusion of terms and intent and reason if everybody would just go get a copy of unintended consequences and read it cover to cover. Yeah. It's an excellent book. It's an excellent book.

Yeah. I think later I'm going to mail my copy to Barry Hussain, highlighted. Might get me killed, but it might be worth it. So you might be asking yourself why this caller thinks he might get killed for sending Obama a copy of this book, Unintended Consequences. And the simple answer to that is because this caller is nuts. But the longer answer is that, of course, he wouldn't be killed for that sort of a gesture, but he knows that sending that book would be a bit of an implied death threat that he'd

be making to Obama. Okay. So what's Unintended Consequences? Unintended Consequences is a 1996 book written by a guy named John Ross. The book is 800 pages long and pretty hard to get a copy of. It's super expensive to find online since it's been out of print for years. So I wasn't able to read it just to discuss this caller's very strange comment. But I did the next best thing and I read a whole bunch about the book online, bunch of

reviews, bunch of essays about it. Unintended Consequences is militia porn, pure and simple. All you really need to know about this book is that the consequences that are unintended are that middle-aged white dudes are going to start another civil war or terrorist insurrection if they get unhappy with the government's meddling. That kind of was what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

Half threat and 100% Alex Jones Jack material. Yeah. The novel tells the story of Henry Bowman, a normal everyday peaceful gun lover who runs a fowl of some shady ATF agents. He does this by pulling a gun on an FBI informant at a gun show who pees his pants in fear and the public humiliation drives him to get revenge on Henry. The ATF somehow gets convinced to set Henry up, but because Henry's very smart, he gets the jump on them when they're coming to case out his house.

So when they show up, he ambushes them. And from what I've read, the book is very graphic about how he tortures and then kills the ATF agents who are specifically described as quote, multicultural, really one African American female cop who shows up at his house is named gonorrhea. So you can kind of get the sense of what this guy, John Ross is all about as well as what kind of person would think this is an excellent book like Alex is describing. Wow. That's fucked up.

Henry forces one of the agents to record a confession video, which is definitely a false confession in reality, but in the world of the book is probably meant to be Henry getting proof of how wronged he was. Henry proceeds to decapitate the agent. Whoa. Yeah. He then burns their ATF van. So I want to play this game with you, Dan, it's called Republican or Isis.

You choose which one that is. So Henry then burns their ATF van and shoots some helicopters out of the sky before meeting up with his buddies to discuss how they should start a war against the feds using a leaderless resistance model. This is so much like what people thought Red Dawn was when in reality, Red Dawn was the opposite of that. Like Red Dawn was supposed to put you inside of the, the, you know, people that we are fucking over.

Right. You know, it shows you what you would do and why it's it. If you think this is reasonable, then it's absolutely reasonable for it to be done when the Americans are doing it to others. There's an empathy angle to it as opposed to a gross. Right. And apparently this book is like white people, what if we just started being terrorists? Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

It is kind of that. Don't you want to be a terrorist? So they, they decided they're going to start this war against the feds using leaderless resistance. They post a false confession video that I won that they got before they decapitated the cop in order to agitate the militia community and people begin doxing ATF agents and what do you know? They start getting murdered.

Henry makes a declaration that all ATF members, any judge who upholds gun laws and all cops or elected officials who are against their interpretation of the Second Amendment is guilty of treason and subject to execution. Multiple Congress members are murdered, one by Henry's friend Cindy, who is a victim of sex trafficking, but met Henry at an AA meeting and decided to start prostituting herself to pro-gun control people and killing them for Henry after he very likely killed her pimps. Uh, and keep in mind those murders happened before his run in with the ATF.

So the idea that up to that point, he was some kind of a peace-loving gun enthusiast is bullshit, which kind of hurts the whole entire conceit of the book, which was that he was a good man who was pushed too far by an oppressive government when in reality he was actually already a mass murderer. So if they had any reason to be surveying him, they certainly did. It seems. Yeah. Yeah.

I think he's the bad guy. He is. The rest of the book is largely about these gun-loving patriots systematically killing, ultimately concluding with the Patriots meeting with the president to negotiate at which point they force him at gunpoint to read an executive order, getting rid of all gun laws. The point is plot is grossly childish and more than that, just gross. There's a lot of reviews I've read. It seems like he really graphically describes the murdering of these cops, seems to relish

it quite a bit. So here are a couple of interesting pieces of the book that I think are worth discussing outside of just this simplistic childish militia porn angle. Over the course of the story, Henry and his friends live through some real-world events like Ruby Ridge and Waco, and less tastefully, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943. In the text, these events happen in the way that they're discussed in militia communities, not as they actually happened. So there's a weird historical revisionism thing that's happening that blurs the entire

narrative structure. The story happens in our world clearly because there are events that happened in our world, but the Patriot Funhouse Mirror of reality is the only point of reference. In many ways, it's kind of like this book exists in the reality that Alex Jones creates on his program. Yeah. This sort of twisted version of historical revision where these pro-gun people have always been the heroes in every single instance.

And that leads me to my next interesting piece of information. This book, literally, and by name, calls out support for gun owners for America and Jews for the preservation of firearms, two gun groups far more extreme than the NRA who were both early sponsors of the Alex Jones show, a thread on the AR-15 message board. If you sent that to the president, maybe you would be arrested for that. I don't think you would, but your intention is something that is fucking violent. A thread on an AR-15 message board asked if people had any recommendations for books similar to unintended consequences.

Pretty much all the responses are to read Enemies, Foreign and Domestic, a trilogy of books written by regular Alex Jones, guest and fourth hour host, Matt Bracken, who predicts a race war coming. GOP or ISIS, Dan? The writer of this book and his thinly fictionalized characters support the same organizations that support Alex. And in gun communities, the most similar book people can come up with was written by one of Alex's regular associates.

This is not a small overlap that we're seeing, and a lot of the rhetoric and a lot of the ideas in this book are very similar to things that Alex believes. It feels like so many of these people are just trapped in this lark. Like it really feels like all of these Patriot guys are living in this role playing game because real life doesn't do it for them, you know? It's like they're all, and so many, whenever you talk to people who've left this type of movement and shit and read all of their interviews, they tell the same story of just like, they made me feel like I was important, they made me feel like I had personal control over all

of this shit. It goes back to that Dr. Wallach selling resentment and hope along with Alex. That's a lot of what is preyed upon. Resentment as a motivator and hope of a simple explanation as the driving force. And I think the other thing that winds up getting them is the thing that video games do and role playing games do that is so, yeah, Steve, well, no, not Steve Jackson games, but is that idea of like leveling up a known progression, knowing the way that the future is going to hold, you know?

As long as I perform, as long as I perform these actions, then this will follow next. There's no, there's no chaos in that book. Well, the title is unintended consequences, right? And yet it all plays out exactly how they want it to fantasize, get the president at gunpoint and have him read an executive order. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, guys.

Right. Which is actually, you know, I would say that is incredibly authoritarian. You know, oh, yeah. I mean, that's a piece. How so, Dan? Well, I mean, it is a piece of this story that they, you know, they presented as this idea where they're the patriots who are standing up for America. Right.

There's, there's no part of me that really believes that they're actually doing what people want. No, no, it's what they want. They didn't really draft any legislation. Well, was there any debate over it? No, they held the president at gunpoint. They're a small group of people who are enforcing their will on everybody through guns. It's not some sort, even the fantasy of it is convoluted.

It's very strange. But at the end of the day, they are, they, nobody hates America more than patriots. It's amazing. So, I have one last point about this book, Jordan. Yeah. It's well known that Timothy McVeigh was inspired to go through with his attack on the Murrah building by reading the Turner Diaries. Well, while waiting his trial, he got a copy of unintended consequences.

And this is what he said about it. Quote, if people say the Turner Diaries was my Bible, unintended consequences would be my New Testament. I think unintended consequences is a better book. It might have changed my whole plan of operation if I'd read that one first. Then I guess you're a bad terrorist? Jesus Christ. Hey, it's a great book though.

Good book. It's great book. Alex thinks it's excellent. Really? And this caller wants to send it to Obama. I'm telling you, it was really, it was a, you know, the, look, the content is bad, but uh-huh. W.E.B Dubois would have loved the prose.

The prose is just too good. Whatever we're disgusted by and really kind of scared about in the present with Alex Jones in 2019, it's always been there. Yay. It's just that the climate wasn't right. I think about it a lot as kind of being Lovecraftian in some ways. You know, like Cthulhu's always around, but until the stars are right, he has to sleep in really A.

Yeah. Come out unless the, the time is right for him to come and teach people new ways of enjoying and terrorizing. Yeah. Uh, and in the same way, like Alex is always been like this, but the stars weren't right. Yeah. The social climate wasn't broken down to the point where these conversations would be much more, more overt, much more accepted as public speech that, you know, it, it does

feel like, um, I know it's not a perfect parallel, but that feels very similar to me. No, I definitely see your parallel. Although one thing that is fascinating to me and it keeps coming up in my mind and never comes up on the show because it's the absence of something in his rhetoric. He doesn't talk about Muslims really at all in 2013. He hates them so much now. I don't hear him complaining about Muslims at all. The only times I've really heard it come up where a guest calling Obama a Muslim and

Alex not even doubling down or ranting about it at all. He doesn't seem to be as overtly Islamophobic back then. Weird. Yeah. I don't know what changes, especially since he literally made a bunch of racist comments earlier. You would assume, you know, he's, he's overtly racist, but I didn't even notice it. Islam narrative is, has been almost entirely absent from this 2013 chunk that we've been

going over. And it's not like we selectively edit in clips. It's just not there. I didn't even notice that because in those racist clips, I always just add Muslims in there. Yeah. Any time, just like, even if he doesn't say it, I'm, I was like, okay, and here's the longer list of who we hate.

I know that's easy for you to do and it probably on some level is there, but I know from context clues, when he's talking about like people who don't get sold guns at gun shows, specifically talking about like Central American and South American immigrants. Right. Um, so anyway, Alex has always sucked, uh, just who sucked more interestingly in the past. Yeah. Yeah.

And I have one more clip because I don't want to end the show on that kind of a horrifying nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. I would prefer to end it as Alex ends his show with him trying to make a Starship Troopers joke and then getting really self-conscious about it. We take you now to Clan Dathu, where our forces are winning an incredible battle against the Obamanoids.

Alex Jones signing off, that's a Starship Troopers, um, plug there. It's, I'm not going crazy before the New York Times talks about Clan Dathu. Okay. That's how, that's how the show ends. Yeah. There's no further words. Nope. That's it.

That's the end of the show. Also, Starship Troopers is a very fascist book. Sure. But he's rambling about New York Times is going to say I'm, uh, believe the Clan Dathu is real. I'm just making a plug. I'm just plugging. Man.

Yeah. Jesus Christ. He is a stupid asshole. What a moron. Uh, so yeah, I mean, that brings us to the end of this, not really much information about Sandy Hook. Oh, that's right. Is that what we were talking about?

I think that that's one of the things I touched on earlier. I think he only sees Sandy Hook as a means to an end at this point and that end is already achieved. And now the narrative has moved on. He's progressed the narrative that he needed through Sandy Hook to the gun extremism to overthrow the president in Peach, Obama. He's taken it on the path that it needed to go on, which is probably the goal as it's been all along.

Yeah. Um, and then also make a lot of money selling the come and take it shirts, uh, uh, during that phase of extreme gun paranoia. Um, so I don't, I, I, I do wonder how it's going to, uh, progress from here. Because it's, it seems really possible that he never needed to do anything more. I know he does. Yeah. Yeah.

But at this point, it seems like he could have just never talked about Sandy Hook again. And it probably would have gone away. He could have got all the mileage out of it that he needed. Yeah. I don't know why he needs to go back to the well or why he ever chooses to, um, but I mean, I'd say he's probably got something of a self-destructive personality. You bet. And he's dumb as we've heard on this episode, him literally talking about committing

tax fraud on air. That's so stupid. Very weird. That's insane. Um, so we'll be back on Monday with another episode. Indeed. But, uh, Intel then, uh, we have a website. We do have a website.

It's knowledge fight.com. That's correct. The Illuminati has not taken it down yet. Not yet. DDoS. Nope. Our IT department is amazing. Stellar.

Also on Twitter at knowledge underscore fight. And I'm at go to bed, Jordan. You can find us on Facebook. You can. Uh, what if you wanted to actually listen to our podcast though? We are on iTunes. We're on iTunes. And very, uh, yeah, a bunch of other places, you know, uh, you know, if you're listening

to this, uh, you probably know where you got it. Yeah, probably. Yeah. So, uh, Theo Ratliff, NBA great Theo Ratliff is blocked a lot of shots and killed a lot of dreams. But I don't think, you know, dreams of. I got it. I got it.

I got it. I got it. He's killed dunk dreams, but he's never killed anybody, but one guy who technically probably has is Alex Jones. Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex.

I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.