Knowledge Fight - #371: Canonical Space Weirdness

Episode Date: November 20, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan need a Wacky Wednesday break from talking about Alex Jones, so Dan takes the opportunity to look into a little question he had about a possible motivation for the documentary being made about non-murderer and Friend Of The Raptors, Mark Richards.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George knowledge fight need money. Andy and Kansas stop it. Andy and Kansas. I love your word knowledge fight knowledge fight. I love you. Hey everybody. Welcome back to knowledge fight. I'm Dan. I'm George. We're a couple dudes like sit around drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed. We are Dan. Jordan Jordan Dan has a particular song ever gotten you through a tough time. Yeah. I mean hundreds of them hundreds of you don't you don't have that. I mean you don't have like a go to like some people like in the olden times would listen to blood on the tracks whenever they got to

break up something something like that. You don't have any like thing that you zeroed in on not as your song you know now. I mean it's it's tough to say I guess something that I've had to the longest. Yeah. You want to go that way. I mean some mighty mighty Boston stuff. Sure. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Like when I'm going through a bad break up I want to listen to mighty mighty Boston. About half of the like question the answers album is probably stuff that I can put on and like get kind of sentimental about like toxic toast or yes. Yeah. Yeah. Bonds in the garbage. Is that on that album. I can't remember. Don't know how to party. That's on a different. I think that's for more noise and other

disturbances. He's still disturbed by how many Boston song. I probably could name the whole track listing of some of those albums. That's terrifying. Love those albums. I'm going to wake up in a cold sweat knowing this. Those got me through some tough times when I was a much younger man when I was like a junior high and high school really loved a lot of that and so maybe that has more of a strong sentimental reaction to me a little bit ugly. Yeah. That's from Devils Devils night out. Sure. Sure. That a lot of that I could probably I haven't listened to any of that in a long time but I bet if I turned it on it would be it would be great. Next time I go to the gym. I'm going

to rock it. I think that's a good idea. I think that's probably the answer because the other thing that comes to mind is now like I air a lot on the side of things like Kesha Carter Jepsen. Yeah. And and that stuff but that's not like as longstanding for me. Do you think it's like a counteracting? Is that like a counteract? You know when you're feeling down you want to listen to bright shiny pop music. I just kind of what I like more than a lot of stuff right now. Okay. I think it's because I listen to tons of Alex Jones. Yeah. So like I have a lot of toxic things coming in. Yeah. Yeah. The idea of some bright cheery. That's interesting. And again a lot of Kesha isn't necessarily bright

and cheery. Right. That's true. That's true. But no I don't know. I don't have a song but I you know I like the Boston's. I like because where I know a lot about the Boston's and a ton about Alex Jones. I don't know anything about either. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So Jordan today we got an interesting situation on our hands. As I told you before we started recording here I spent all day yesterday listening to Alex trying to prepare an episode based on his like Sunday and Monday episodes from this week. And it's just it was one of the experience. It was an experience I haven't had in a long time of just like feeling like it's all a whiff. Yeah. Like it's just who cares. Oh man. Sunday is it feels like him

going back to his roots a little bit but it's just kind of boring conspiracy stuff and there's it feels untethered and that like Larry Nichols didn't come back on like he said you. You might of course I'm listening to Monday and he's just talking about Trump going to Walter Reed Hospital right. Okay. And so it's all just Trump is being poisoned. Oh we've done this. All right. Yeah. We played this game. We played this game with Roger the slow acting in the Poison on top of that. Yeah. I just felt like real uninspired by it. I felt like I can't do this again. I did think it was a little bit interesting only in so much as back the last time that Alex covered this poisoning narrative that he was doing

the way. The way he presented it was they're trying to kill our president. You know it was very much a like a gung ho. Yeah. Roger calling for globalist blood. Right. Right. You know like yes. I can't be allowed to do this. No of course not and the way I was. I heard this on Monday's show was much more like. What are you going to do? There was a sense of there. They're poisoning our president again. All right. What do you expect from the globalist. No kid. They're evil and they're bad so we should be mad at them but it Trump was almost like a prop. Yeah. Like this thing was being done to him as opposed to like we've got to stop this. Right. Right. And I thought that was a little interesting

but I also felt like I'm probably reading too much into this. Maybe he's just tired. I feel a little bit gun shy about being too like over the top about anything. Sure. I do think that there's some trends you could see as Alex was introducing the the narratives about is Trump the the globalist stooge who's in here to make to to neutralize right like a controlled opposition. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't want to buy too much into that because you know like it's easy to take Alex at his word and then be like a couple months later be like well should listen. Yeah. Like when he had Paul Joseph Watson on and they were talking about he was going to be going on to newer things. Yeah. He did. Yeah. We got we got a little

burned by that a tiny bit in terms of like oh I believed you. They were fucking crying. That's not fair. No. In fairness to us there's every reason to think like well this might be real. Yeah. But I don't want to I don't want to jump too far into like this time he's talking about poisoning. He's doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it means anything. I was just anyway. I listen to these episodes and as I was taking clips from them and like trying to find stuff to get into I was just like I felt like I was walking through mud and it's like I can't do this. So I have decided that we're going to do an episode today about a certain question that I have been wrestling with and we've brought up on the show before.

It'll be sort of wacky Wednesday ish. It's fairly wacky. Okay. And so we are going to explore this question and we will get into that in a moment. But before we do we got to say thank you to some people who have signed up and are supporting the show. Sounds good. So first of all Scott. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Scott. Next David. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you David. Thank you David. Next Dustin. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Dustin. Next propaganda do. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Propaganda do. Next

Asinine genius. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you so much. Asinine genius. Asinine genius. And then finally like to say thank you to somebody who donated on an elevated level. We appreciate that very much. So gravity head zero. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. Crikey mate. That's fantastic. Have yourself a brew. How's your 401k doing bro? We got to go full tilt buggy on this Watson. All right. Let's just get down to business. We ain't making that money off that heroin. Why you pimp so good. My neck is freakishly large. I declare info war on you. Thank you so much. Gravity head zero. Yes. Thank you very much. If you're listening

out there and you think and I enjoy the show, I'd like to support these gents do. You can do that by going to our website knowledge fight.com clicking the button that says support the show. We would appreciate it. It'd be very helpful. So Jordan, like I said, yes, I have a question that I have been wrestling with. And the last time we dipped our little toes into the Project Camelot world, it was a question that was coming up and and felt important. And that is why is Kevin Moore doing what he's doing? Right. Right. Right. He is the guy. If you do not recall, he's the guy who's producing and directing a documentary about Kerry Cassidy and Project Camelot and Mark Richards. And his actions seem very suspicious to me.

So I want to give a little bit of an introduction for everybody who needs a little bit quick reference on what has happened. Oh, are you going to channel previously on the wacky Wednesday? You're going to need to do a voice though in our channeling word in our channeling world. You got to do the voice. So for those like a need a refresher early on in this doing this podcast, this knowledge fight here. We realized that talking about Alex Jones all the time was not good for anyone to give ourselves in the audience a break. We would take periodic little trips, little excursions to talk about people who claim to have been to space and claim to talk to aliens who have been interviewed on a show called Project Camelot. Project

Camelot is hosted by Kerry Cassidy, the least credulous woman on the planet. Initially it was all a lot of fun with super soldiers and chocolate stealing raptors until over time it became clear that Kerry was holding some of the same underlying bigotries we see in other right wing outlets. Every goddamn time we're like, Hey, this is fun and no it's anti semitism. Damn it. Her support for the protocols of the elders of Zion was certainly troubling and I can't say I'm thrilled with some of her other comments about Jews generally speaking and suspicions of yeah. So over time it became less whimsical and fun to listen to her show, but her interviews with Captain Mark Richards were still required viewing dynamite.

Mark Richards is a man who paid a teenager to kill a guy who owed him money back in the 80s and has been in prison ever since while in prison he's concocted an elaborate story about how he's innocent because he was secretly off planet at the time of the murder doing a space mission in his sentient spacecraft whose name is Minerva. And so far there are no holes in that story. He knows everything about human politics and galactic affairs and the only journalist he'll talk to is Kerry Cassidy. Because he's in prison, Kerry can't really interview him. So she just goes to the jail talks to him and sits down in front of a webcam when she gets home and reviews her notes. Thus the name of her series about Mark Richards total recall. Leave aside for a moment

that that's a reference to a movie based on Philip K Dick short story that plays with the idea of whether or not memories are real. That's not important. Over the years, Mark is told Kerry some absolutely insane shit while she which she then reports to her audience as gospel coming from a very real and very reliable source who definitely isn't a murderer. He's a noble space captain whose friends with Raptors and the enemy of the evil reptoids. He's got a he's got a hell of a resume. He does. I will give him a fake resume as long as the day. Enter Kevin Moore, a British documentarian and channeler for years. Kevin hosted a program called and still does to in some fashion called the Kevin Moore show where he interviews some of dubious dubious people about

paranormal and new age kinds of topics. He's had Kerry Cassidy on as a guest and even interviewed Mark's wife, Joanne Richards. He's shown no signs of thinking that that what they were doing was absurd. And in his interview with Joanne, he completely went along with her stories about Mark being a secret space captain who is framed for murder. But something changed at some point. And now Kevin is directing a documentary series about Mark Richards being a murderer and how Kerry Joanne and another pro mark figure named Simon Parks are all basically in a cult. Obviously Kevin is right about that. I'm glad. Well, I am for one. I'm glad that somebody's finally tackling this subject of Mark Richards being a liar because for the longest time when we've talked about it,

we both assumed he was telling the truth. Sure. He's really opened my eyes on the subject, but he's right. Mark is definitely a murderer and his defenders are all delusional to some extent. But even if I agree with that conclusion, something doesn't sit right with me about how Kevin reached the conclusion. He had no credentials as being a person who would have scruples, but now he's positioning himself as someone who was going to expose a major fraud in the paranormal and UFO communities. I didn't get it. So I started looking into it and this is all still recap. Well, let's not forget he still does not have any scruples. No, this is not a seed change. This is an isolated incident of him trying to do weird one. I suppose good thing. Yeah,

still surrounded with scamming people for hundreds and hundreds of dollars a minute. Yeah, in looking into Kevin Moore so far, you know in the past, I see nothing but a picture of a completely uncompelling charlatan like he has videos that we've talked about where he channels aliens like this. We come to you as many. The gift of Kevin is the gift to be able to channel multiple entities, multiple beings. And that is a true gift in this special time on planet Earth right now. He doesn't need to change his voice or act in a different way. This is an agreement we have with him. Okay, so he never, never going to get tired of that. No, it's fantastic. Never going to get tired of that. So he has videos where he's channeling aliens. There's no rigorous

standards of proof of what he's doing here. He runs a psychic hotline. He's used his show to give largely uncritical interviews to all manner of dubious folks like the employees of his psychic hotline or the guy from apex TV who claims to talk to time travelers. But it's really easy really just creating viral hoax content probably for ad revenue. Kevin claims that he's making this documentary series because what Kerry and Mark are doing is bad for the community of alternative folks because they don't do their research. They haven't done the they're giving it a bad name. Absolutely. What they're doing is not real. Whereas presumably what Kevin is doing is based on reality. It's an absurd justification for the documentary. So I reject it. If we accept that

that can't possibly be why he's doing what he's doing, we're left to ask what's really going on. I can't pretend to tell you that I've solved this mystery, but I had a little bit of a theory and I explored it. Okay, I'm going to present that theory to you today. All right. One of the primary things that's bothered me about this whole thing is where's the money coming from? Bigger question. Is Kerry his mom? No. Okay. Never mind. You've already pitched that Marcus is dead. I know. I've got one theory. Yeah. So where's the money coming from? Jordan? Yes. Is Kevin more independently wealthy? Did he sell off a business 10 years ago that's funding this whole thing? It's a relevant question because he's clearly traveling all over the place. Yeah.

There's videos of him flying around. He's going to the California to try and track down people involved in Mark's case. He's jet-setting. You know, for this documentary, he's gone all over the place and I will say that he has way higher production value than a lot of the folks I come across in this space, weirdo community. Yeah. It'd be weird if Ken Burns was producing this. Yeah. Even assuming he's a naturally talented video producer, there's still some money going into this. Trying to answer that question led me back to a video that Kevin posted in 2013, introducing a new partnership with the Kevin Moore show. The Moore show is in partnership with Ozark Mountain Publishing, taking readers beyond the unexplained.

Hello, I'm Kevin Moore and I host the Moore show, alternative late night talk on radio, TV and online. And I'm Joanna sir, producer of the Moore show. We are proud to announce that the Moore show is now in partnership with Ozark Mountain Publishing. The Moore show, alternative late night talk is on the leading edge of alternative radio and TV programming in the UK. The show's mission is to uplift and awaken human consciousness through bold and powerful interviews with paranormal researchers. This goes on for a while. Yeah, I believe it. So, but it also gets to the end and it's talking about, you know, sell the books of Ozark Mountain Publishing and we're going to launch a platform where you can

buy advertiser. Right. So, it's a comprehensive partnership. See, this is interesting. Ozark Mountain Publishing is not a super huge publishing outlet. So, it seems strange that they would be partnering up with a not super huge paranormal show all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. It's hard to say exactly what kind of revenue Ozark Mountain Publishing is pulling in, but a review on Glassdoor from a former employee complains that working there involves a quote crazy family managed environment and says that it's a small company with less than 50 employees. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds right. I don't know why. I think for some reason I'm prejudiced against any company that is like Ozark Mountain or Ozark. What about the Ozark water bottle?

I mean, they make water bottles so they're bad. Isn't that, that makes sense. What about Lake of the Ozarks? You ever been there? I don't think I have ever been there. It's great. Gorgeous, gorgeous lake. Have you ever been there? Yes, in the middle of Missouri. I think my buddy, his parents had a lake house there. Oh, okay. We went to bin. Okay. All right. It's good time. All right. Well, then I retract my Ozark prejudices. Ozark is a big broad term. Don't be so biased. Okay. I'm sorry. Ozark Mountain Publishing was founded in 1992 by a woman named Dolores Cannon. Dolores passed in 2014, but prior to that, she was a bit of a player in the world of the paranormal. She'd written a ton of books. She put out, uh, uh, she put on the Ozark UFO

conference, which is allegedly currently right now and it's 33rd year. I'm not sure that's true, but it could be. I mean, yeah, the fire fest is in its third year, right? Something like third year. I was being never mind. Dolores was doing hypnosis back in the 60s to try and help patients with things like smoking and overeating and behavioral issues. Okay. So she wasn't scamming. It's hard to say, but I don't have a, I don't have a gigantically negative sense about Dolores, although I do think she's a little scam. Okay. Everyone in this world kind of gotta be a little bit. Yeah, but if you're trying to help people quit smoking with hypnosis, that's way better than if you're back in the 60s. If you're charging $90 a minute to get psychic

reading, we have 70 years to cover. That's a good point. It's a good point. Fair in the course of doing her work. She stumbled upon a woman in 1968 who regaled her with stories of a past life when she was hypnotized. Dolores's work got interrupted when her husband got injured and she had to care for him and the family had to relocate to the Ozarks. But by the late 70s, she was back up and running hypnotizing people. I found a particular line in Dolores's bio pretty funny quote, her early work was heavily focused on reincarnation, which got her acquainted and comfortable with the concept of time travel, which I would say. How could it not? I mean so many reasons. Sure. I feel like those two things are not related, not necessarily. So her work began as past life

regression, but eventually grew into what she calls quantum healing hypnosis technique, which is a name that she has trademarked. All right. Now we're back into scammy territory a little as she continued her work in the field. She found resistance on the part of the mainstream book houses to publish her writing and thus she started up Ozark Ozark Mountain Publishing in 1992 through which she puts out tons of books of her own as well as those of tons of other new age sorts of writers. Three of the books she put out were of her own that they purport to be the authoritative interpretations of Nostradamus's prophecies three of those books. Well, it's a three part series three part series. Yeah, she could be certain that they are authoritative

because Nostradamus himself told her so. Oh, there we. Okay. All right. In a session she was having her patient began speaking as Nostradamus and told her that everyone was getting his shit wrong. Right. Because of changes to the French language over time and he needed Dolores to write a book to correct the record. Of course he did. I don't believe any of that. Of course, he didn't only write in French, but who cares? Yeah. So Dolores Cain and runs this publishing house and they've entered into a partnership with the Moore show in 2013, which on its own is kind of weird, but it's not entirely insane. I know how it can be when you're trying to get your name out there. Sometimes you make marketing decisions that seem strange to external observers

like a couple years ago, I bought a Facebook ad. For instance, yeah, you know, it happens. Yeah, what are you going to do? But here's the thing. This wasn't just Ozark Mountain publishing buying an ad on Kevin's show. This was a partnership like in that ad that we were that announcement. Yeah, it's a business integration sort of thing. You can tell. Right. And guess what? This was not short term. I've reviewed a ton of Kevin's videos from the past few months in 2019, and most of them start with an ad for Dolores Cannon. A great ad for Dolores Cannon could help others to find the power to heal themselves physically, emotionally and spiritually. When I started teaching my classes, it was in 2002,

and I was just doing the past life regressions and contacting the subconscious part. But then as the time went on and we found how powerful this was and what we could do with it, a lot of the students began saying, you know, advanced past life regression doesn't really tell what it's all about. This is so much more than that. We think you should change the name. So as a few years ago, we decided to change the name to Quantum Healing Hypnosis Technique. And this is the healing technique that we've now been teaching it for 10th 2002. That's 12 years. What if you could time travel with them, visit mythical places or angelic realms, other worlds, other galaxies, help others to speak to their higher selves. You can. Dolores has taught

thousands of people from across the world how to use QHHT. And now you can learn her method by going directly to DoloresCannon.com. And don't forget to mention the discount code MoreTalks. So that's six years that the More Show has been in partnership with the Dolores Cannon slash Ozark Mountain Publishing business. And that seems interesting to me. Yeah. Yeah. Having a coupon code for time travel seems very interesting to me. It's not so much time travel for yourself. It's the quantum technique that allows you to help other people time travel or something. No, I get that, which actually I think is even more irresponsible because you're teaching people how to do a weird therapy to other people. Yep. I'm not comfortable

with any of this. It's franchising your time travel therapy. More or less. I've got through tons of Kevin's videos and I can find no evidence of any other sponsors other than Dolores Cannon extending to the Ozark Mountain Publishing and his own website channeling.com, which is little more than a front for Kevin's Psychicop. Yeah. So I don't see where any other income or flow of money is coming from, except this long standing partnership with Dolores Cannon and Ozark Mountain Publishing. These videos on his channel also have pretty low engagement. So it would be completely unbelievable for me to imagine that he's making any real money on YouTube monetizing these documentaries that he's putting out like channel, they call us

channelers, this new documentary that he's put out. That's not being sold anywhere. Right. Maybe it's some like real boutique shop or something, real niche new age shop. It's being rented in blockbusters still though. I doubt it. I doubt even that. I can't see that that being a strong revenue stream, but he flew all over the place to interview these channelers. Like there is a money flow coming in. Something is happening. Right. I just don't know exactly what it is. It makes me think that based on this, he's either making a killing on that psychic hotline, which I find probably unbelievable. I imagine there's some money coming in there, but it can't possibly be enough. I just don't see it being enough. I think a lot of this money has got to be coming from Ozark Mountain

Publishing. Okay, and from the Dolores Cannon branch. So that raises the question. Is there any reason to suspect that there would be beef between Kerry Cassidy and Dolores Cannon? And I think that there is. Okay. Dolores Cannon didn't publish Kerry's book. I don't know. I don't. I know that she wouldn't. Right. Dolores Cannon. I don't publish Michael Richards book. I know that he would do. She wouldn't do that either. She was like no. No. Mako shark rampant in my house. No, but he doesn't need that because when he was writing that book, Joanne, his then to be soon to be wife was working in publishing. Right. But I was, I was, I was questioning this possibility that there might be some sort of a, a scism. Yeah. Between Kerry and Dolores Cannon and that led me

to a May 3rd 2010 video that Kerry Cassidy posted on Project Camelot of her interviewing Dolores Cannon. Okay. So this is from back in 2010. Dolores is Kerry's mom. No. Okay. Damn it. If you watch this video, there's a very good reason to believe that these two Dolores and Kerry are not nearly on the same page as each other. Okay. So here's Kerry giving an introduction to Dolores. So this is Kerry Cassidy and Project Camelot and Kerry with Dolores Cannon. I'm very pleased to introduce our audience to Dolores Cannon and her work. I have been studying your work for quite some time, read several of your books. And I'm very impressed with your diligence, with the care you take with each and every person that you regress. And, and I just really want

to welcome you here. Thank you very much for taking me. Thanks for asking me to do this. So this is very friendly and jovial. We're off to a great start. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it doesn't, it doesn't go off the rails or anything. It doesn't turn into a fight. Right. But if you know anything about Kerry and if you know anything about the world that she believes in, you will hear certain things along the way through this interview. Yeah. That are gigantic things that she disagrees. Okay. This first one that comes up is a discussion of alien abductions. Dolores has an interesting take on alien abductions that is 100% counter to Kerry. It's in the beginning, it was just taking them on board the craft. My book that I've written

about this, my 25 years is called the custodians. Because all through my work, I've not seen any negativity. It's always been positive. This is the way I see them as the custodians of our planets. The first book I wrote on it was the Keepers of the Garden. We are the garden and they are the gardeners. And I've never found negativity because I could see why they were doing what they were doing and the reasons for the whole thing. Okay. And when you say they, who are you talking about? The ETs. Okay. So up to this point in the interview, Dolores has just been explaining her backstory to Kerry and describing how she's discovered through hypnotizing people that they had been abducted by aliens. But that was always a positive experience. This is a major, major

departure from the worldview of Project Camelot, where pretty much all alien abduction is nefarious and likely the work of the evil reptilians or their associates in the human secret space program. Even if they're good ostensibly in her pantheon, they're abducting people evil. The raptors are great, but they're going to eat you for chocolate. Yeah, Kerry believes that a lot of this stuff is done to like the abductions is done to harvest material from us in order to produce clones or hybrids that can, I guess, be used to better take over society or something. Gallbladders are delicious. That's it. Yeah, they're made of chocolate. But Dolores doesn't believe that in her experience. All interactions with ET have been positive once and she professes

to have an understanding of their purpose, which is something that, you know, Kerry can't argue with if she has like I've spoken to the aliens. I know why they're doing what they're doing. Right Kerry can't be like, wow, here's evidence. But yeah, that's how the fucking much of a dead end is that there is a little bit of it's it's like two people arguing over what houses look like in heaven where you're like I mean yeah, I get I get what you're saying, but shut up. So as Dolores lays out in the interview, these aliens are just the custodians of the planet, and when they abduct somebody, they're doing it to help them. There are these adjustments that need to be made in humans and the ET are there to make those adjustments so the person can live up to the arrangements that

they made before being born so they can carry out their mission in life. This is great. It's fantastic. It's a large more. It's more new age inspired than a lot of what Kerry is into There's this idea of your soul and like before and after you die, you and your soul group are together. You guys all make arrangements of what you're going to do in the next life and then once you're born, your mind is wiped. You can't remember anything. That's impossible. Have you ever tried to get four or five people to go out for dinner making arrangements for what you're going to do in the next life is never going to happen. But your inability to create those dinner plans is something you agreed on before you were born. That's true. That's true. I wish I'd

remember you and your soul group agreed to make it impossible to make dinner plans in order. So once you were incarnated on earth, right you and your friends could grow through that frustration okay created your own challenge pre birth in order. It's a new age. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty common in a lot of these circles to have these. It's a predestination but also free. Well there's a lot because your mind's wiped. It allows for both to sort of coexist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's where Dolores is at for sure and it is not where Kerry is absolutely. So what we see here is the first indication of a fundamental difference in worldview between these two on the small scale. There's the differing takes on alien abduction but if you zoom out this is a microcosm of a

much larger disagreement primarily about what the character of the universe is for Kerry space is a place full of war and different races of aliens doing battle for control of I guess space resources for Dolores spaces full of love and care. It's just an extension of something that's all about us but also a much larger than us. There's a game going on involving us and other alien races but we're playing it together and it's about cooperative advancement killer. These are entirely incompatible views of the galaxy that these two people have. I know what she would be called if Larry Nichols were around. She's a witch. So we get to a little bit later in the interview and they start talking about what aliens are you talking about and we instantly find another

branching between these two that I don't know how they could possibly bridge this gap. So you were talking to which groups now they don't have names okay they wouldn't tell you I mean they don't have names but as far as we know in other words we know about for example Nordics as a general category and we know about grays and so and so forth even reptilians have you gotten you've gotten a testament conflict with all of them have come through at various times but when I asked them where were you from they said we don't have a name from where we come from you humans have to put labels on things so if you need it we will give you a label but they said if we told you we were from the planet out there to the north of the the four star you wouldn't know which one it was because it's not

even in your constellation books that's right but they don't come from planets anywhere they come from other dimensions and galaxies far far away because they travel through dimensions and so they said it wouldn't do any good to tell you where we are from and on board the crabs are many many different times just like Star Trek just like Star Trek just like Star Trek so here we have another fundamental disagreement between Kerry and Dolores Cannon one of the things that most characterizes Kerry's view of the folks from space is that they all belong to rigidly defined groups and they are defined by the group's characteristics the reptilians are Draco they're pure evil the spider leadership are bad and they're meddling on earth the mantids were

formally bad but they've made an alliance and they might be on our side now according to Simon Parks or who knows the raptors are good and they're our allies though they will eat babies on occasion and will kill you for chocolate which it's like sometimes you got to make a look I mean you know Saudi Arabia is technically our ally you know what I'm saying naturally the Nordics the aliens most like white people are unassayably good it is weird how they are unassayably good that is true Dolores sees a far more multicultural universe compared to Kerry her view is downright progressive the labels of alien groups names are meaningless in the larger picture and they only exist because humans have a need to put labels on things in the real world of space Nordics work alongside

raptors mantids and reptilians on the same spacecraft it's a it's like Star Trek yeah obviously since I don't believe any of this I'm left to try and find meaning in subtext I feel like the world that Dolores believes in is one where there's unity where everyone can be valued and collaborate where group labels are meaningless conversely Kerry seems trapped in a mode of thinking where what what group someone is a part of dictates certain intrinsic characteristics about them applied to humans this is what you might call racist yeah the way Kerry engages in this stuff it's not necessarily fair to call it racist because she could easily say that human is the group that we would apply universal characteristics to in the same way she does with raptor or

reptilian the problem is in how accepting that kind of thinking allows a person to apply it to subgroups pretty easily Kerry may believe that species is the smallest possible group where these kinds of generalizations can be made but I don't trust that position to hold nor if I ever really heard her articulate that kind of hard and fast line that kind of rule of like this kind of thinking only applies this far yeah it can't be applied again I think that you need to be responsible if you're going to be like this group is intrinsically this way this group is intrinsically this way you got to be real clear but like you better not apply this elsewhere what we're dealing with here is a classic did Bill and Ted win or did Bill and Ted lose intergalactic government

situation here when Bill and Ted win situation it's yeah have you never seen it everybody air guitars it's fantastic it's amazing but in bogus journey whenever the evil bill and Ted around there they're just causing destruction they're just ruining everything Kerry is the evil bill and Ted this is unassailable logic this is an interesting yes I'll say that what my perspective is I appreciate yours thank you but what I'm saying is that I'm not trying to call Kerry's view racist and Dolores's view not racist but I think what we see here still indicates a profoundly divergent view of the universe between their two worldviews Kerry sees a galaxy sees the galaxy as a war zone between distinct groups of alien races whereas Dolores sees it a place as a place of growth

and evolution where different groups don't see themselves as different and work towards shared goals it's the difference between seeing the universe as primarily conflict and seeing it as primarily cooperation it's difficult for me to stress how at odds their positions are which is very interesting Kerry and Dolores don't seem to hate each other and their interview is polite enough but they have nothing in common yeah that is interesting although Dolores loses me actually and I don't even know if this is brilliant within the context of her statement or if it's exactly as stupid as it sounds but the idea of an alien race being like yeah we're north of that star north north north in space you're north in space I think but

which north I think that she was saying that as a absurd way to look at it but see that's the thing in the context she she wasn't saying it like she was saying it like the alien race told her that as a way I don't think she was I think she was I don't think she was I think she was I think she was using that as an example of what you would want to hear from an alien and it being meaningless yeah that's what that's how I heard it okay everything is open to interpretation all right I think there's a lot of fair criticisms of all of these people but I think that's nitpicky I I'm a hard sci-fi guide yeah all right so we get back to alien abductions here in their interview and Dolores says something really interesting that I could see Carrie taking personally the

ideal situation should be that the person never remember anything about the experience because they have been coming since the beginning of the earth taking care of humans since the beginning of the earth and they don't want to interfere with the individual's life we should because of free will we should be allowed to just live and experience life as we know it not supposed to interfere with it but they said because the chemistry of the brain has changed the pollutants in the air the add the additives to the food if the person is on drugs of any kind recreational are bright or medical drugs if they are drinking on alcohol it changes the chemistry of the brain thus when the person remembers an experience they don't remember it all usually it's it's

parts of an experience or a dream they are remembering the experience in a distorted fashion so it's not correct and they're quite or scared they think they've been raped they think all kinds of horrible things have happened to them and this is what the ET community UFO community they exploit that they have speakers come and talk about all the horrible things that were done to them well i can't have the same person that somebody else has got this horrible story from i do them we get a totally different story because we find out what you're so close and it's not at all what they thought it was so delores is expressing that these people because they have some like ideally the alien's brain wipe or whatever it would hold yeah but because of environmental changes

or drugs or whatever boos these people have a partial memory of something and they're exploited by the ufo community yeah no she's part of that ufo community she just told carry that one everything that she believes is actually true is a shitty distortion of what's real right and two she's part of a group of people exploiting people based on that in one fucking paragraph she is she's invalidated all of carry well without being super or hyper confrontational right is saying she just said everything you do is bullshit more or less yeah yeah damn so i mean that's got to be tough to hear yeah especially if you've made your life lying so carry is pretty interested in this interview about the like we talk about a lot and i've already brought up this

obsession almost with categorizing these aliens um and delores seems to think that she's focusing on the wrong thing oh let's go back a minute you talk with the different races i've had many different ones come through some of them you wouldn't even recognize they're not any pictures you've ever seen but they're able to communicate because it's all it's mind to mind but they speak through the person i'm working with sure and we have i have information that i can tell you that you wouldn't believe but you want to i bet you would well okay we'll be happy to hear some of the information i wouldn't believe if that's what you think see i think i think there's a little bit of carry taking that as condescension oh yeah absolutely and and i i could i could sense a

bit of that through the interview although like i said it doesn't turn into a fight or anything right right i carry might in the present day yeah or whatever there's still a bit of uh i don't know respect between the two of them and i think that might some of that might be a product of this being in 2010 yeah and i have a lot of things were quite different we were still pre 2012 predictions right so everyone was really excited about this this world of shit i'm getting a very maternal vibe from uh delores is an older lady in this interview i mean just in the way that she and she is interacting with carry as being like sure you're you're young you've got a lot more to learn about this you're you're focusing on all this you're and carry would obviously take that as

condescension oh yeah because it kind of is yeah mildly maybe well i think it's more like i have a perspective about this that explains your perspective right right and you could easily see that as condescension but also i mean delores has been doing this since the 70s you know she's been right she's been in this game a lot longer than carry too so she she's earned her maternal status of course don't get me wrong i'm not sitting here talking about how great delores canon is later in the uh the episode she's talking to carry she's a pretty anti vex of so of course so i'm not we can't have anything nice dad yeah i'm not i'm not here to say that she's a hero or anything but the point is these two people both believe in aliens and all that shit but have completely

different perspectives on what's happening there are disagreements about the nature of abductions the nature of alien life the value of dividing aliens into different groups whether or not the behavior of the ufo community is actually making things worse for abductees there's very little that they seem to have agreement on other than don't get vaccinated yeah great oof good good way to come together on the right issue there but i don't know if i can find any evidence of an actual public feud between the two i think that delores canon seems like a woman who wouldn't stoop to that and i don't know if i've seen too many examples of carry directly attacking someone unless she perceived them to be attacking her as is in the case with kevin more currently

if i were to make my uh it would make my theory a lot simpler if i could point to a long-standing flame war between them but i don't think that that's ever happened it seems like this is a case where there are two camps the canon side and the camelot side and they're just ideological rivals vying for position in the paranormal new age community canons work reflects a message of hope of the new age ideals of human evolution and expansion of consciousness ozark mountain publishing puts out books with titles like dance of heavenly bliss heaven here on earth and reconnecting to the earth scrolling through their catalog it's more or less devoid of fear selling the audience instead on messages of hope conversely everything the camelot puts out provides

the eldritch glimpse into a secret world of space combat secret technology being hidden from humans for evil reasons and grand nefarious conspiracies every natural disaster is just aliens eating people the government needs to cover up wars their attempts to stop alien invasions coming through star gates secretly bombing the star yeah we're dealing with space mary and williamson versus space trump that's what we're that's our that's our world view ideological divide here i i i didn't want to let that commercial from 2013 play all the way it was for maryan but in in kevin's list of people he's interviewed one of them was mary of course it is of course it is i couldn't find that on his youtube page but we would have covered it already and like so also to carry his

world the human tragedies that happen like mass shootings and things they those are false flags being carried out by the reptilian bloodlines that have conquered the planet already through subterfuge everything is fear anyone who spent any time trafficking in conspiracy and paranormal message boards or communities understands that these are kind of the two poles in that world and that kind of makes sense you know it's a perspective thing how you could see the same glass as half full or half empty but just applied to secret alien shit and all that you know it's kind of yeah except the glass is fucking fictional that's that's the situation man but so is that hypothetical glass we always talk about see there we go so delores canon passed away in 2014 and her

daughter julia canon took over her work i'm pretty sure that julia was involved in maybe even running ozark mountain publishing previous to that point but i can't say for sure because her linkedin page doesn't have any dates on it now i assume delores was very old like she was something like that yeah but i mean some of the videos that you can find pretty close to her passing were she's quite lucid oh no i'm not saying that i'm just saying you know you're you're 84 and your your daughter is just going to run the you know yeah day to day operations you still make some interviews you know you do that kind of thing yeah kevin is known both delores and her daughter julia throughout his career in the paranormal community the first interview he had with delores was posted on his

channel on december 3rd 2011 and he has interviews with julia going back to 2013 i was wondering about this because there seems to be a shift in the present like uh you know a fairly like he's doing these interviews like with these time traveler people yeah then now he's calling for you know we've got to call out the frauds in our community yeah yeah i was wondering if it's possible that there is anything to do with julia okay if he's had this patron over the years in the ozark mountain publishing and he's doing you know he's doing what he's doing in partnership with them then delores passes away right julia comes around and maybe she hates carry okay so i so julia is officially a loose cannon i don't i like your pun but no i that was just that was just a

thought that i yeah yeah and so what i wanted to do was i wanted to check in with an interview that he did with julia of course so i found this one here from july 26th 2018 this is mere months before he announces his mark richards documentary okay so i figured like if there's gonna be some clues yeah you might think you'd find them in here and so in this first clip kevin's talking to julia and i feel like he's asking her about what her mother would think about the state of the paranormal community okay okay you know you the error that your mom did most of her work um sort of you know you know well it started off for a it was many years but i was gonna let that's actually let's actually move it to the era of the mid-2000s right maybe 2005 yeah i think you know it was

still pretty grounded information that was out there you know the ufo field was quite grounded you know this field really was definitely you know a level that people could come to and it you know it was it wasn't too far out there in some ways right it wasn't you know i just my point is right now it just feels that our community is it and a time of such division of such extremes and of such almost falling apart in some respects i wonder what mum would think of what was going on right now i think she would think it's just right on you know this is how it's supposed to be and i i you know as as it keeps growing i mean they showed me a long time ago that as it grows i mean you know for a while it's like this and they said

as the one keeps growing it's gonna grow like this so she's doing gestures with her hands of like you think it's going to grow straight like yeah like a trunk but it's actually growing as two separate branches okay she has almost like a case or a surround right right attitude towards kevins being like well we got all this bullshit going on well any movement that sufficiently grows is going to splinter off into series of different groups is her her basic kind of thrust there so it doesn't inevitable why are you going to be worried about it yeah yeah that doesn't feel like what you'd expect if you were if my theory was to hold yeah no she doesn't seem to be bothered in the slightest by the fact that like wow there's this but there's also this yeah and she didn't even end it with

like hey you know it grows into different directions by the way fuck harry cassidy but over here on this branch is yeah that's weird yeah so kevin tries to regroup a little bit here and reframe what he's asking about it's almost like right that you you know the ufo subjects with your mom and her work always connected to consciousness she was a very early pioneer in promoting that right and that's exactly where a lot of the you know you asked like some very nuts and bolts at stan and freeman now right he'll say absolutely it's all about consciousness right that's where the work's gone yeah so so now we've got the consciousness on one side which is the feel that i've loved for so long the ufo the ufo field on the other side which i've loved for so long and that there's you know

there's a bridge of the there's a gap in the connect that there's a connection between them both right but as you said there they've gone this far out we know when we've got you know secret space program whistleblowers yeah coming out from all all angles and the the stores that they're telling and the division in the community that that causes and and uh i there's a also cult like practices going on in this community as well right now which is very sad to have to say um i hate you i i i've just never seen it so divided well and i think that's another thing that's i you know that's i've just recently was watching a video and they were just talking about how right now it's just when all the light is just shining see this stuff has always been there

and it's just the light is just shining brighter and brighter it's just exposing all these things that's all it is yes and so as it's exposing now we're just aware of it that's all it is so now it's choices now what are you going to do about it you know you're going to uh you're you're going to make judgments you're going to condemn and you're going to you know it's you know it's just exposing and now it's choices see that's all being exposed and now by media this is wonderful true now now people know about it yeah that before they were all hidden and secret now that can't be secret anymore she seems very zen about uh i kind of like her vibe yeah i'm liking her vibe i won't i can't lie i came away from this liking julia came in a bit

yeah i i think she's doing all right yeah because kevin's like he's like i look at this bullshit yeah it's always been there you know now you just see it to get information out and people you know the light is shining on this and they can't hide certain things anymore and it's great that people are talking about but she does not seem motivated in any way to be like to do anything crush these people there's no ruthlessness there's no like vindictive element there's nothing it's just it's just kind of like yeah what do you now we you know you get through life there's more information and then you have choices i don't i don't know it's it's insane she's very that could be the new agey version of a threat right there that like you know we have choices we have things that we

can't do now we have to choose to crush the the dum-dums over there i i i think that that's a giant leap but i don't think it's impossible yeah yeah yeah no it she's she almost has in my mind that uh if you remember that phil hartman sketch on snl where he's playing reagan and he was like oh yes hello little girl and oh that's and then she leaves and he's like all right back to work assholes like that kind of thing yeah i understand that that image can come up in your head but i would need and i admittedly have not done like tons of research on julia canon but i would need a bit more information about her to be like all right she's secretly like i'm gonna go with a mastermind behind the whole thing possible so um kevin gets to complaining some more and julia is

diffusing it more when rubbish does come across our table or purposeful disinformation that people feel as though it's real right and they're going along with it and it's like where has people's discernment gone god i hate that word it's almost like the conspiracy has infiltrated the spiritual little bit that's how i feel right well people have to just learn to you know you've got to think with your own mind and you've got to you you know come on you know i don't just listen to everything that comes but that is that is what's going on though as a person that's in this community right now there are people gaining a lot of power in this field who are mixing the spiritual with conspiracy which is a fine do what you want to do but then as soon as you start to say hang on a minute

there's gotta be discernment and we're not we're getting on grounded here completely then they they're all turning against you as soon as you do that and it's like wow it's probably worth noting that this conversation with julio was posted to kevin's youtube page about two months after he had that interview with carrie cassidy where he tried to ask her about inconsistencies in mark richard's story and she got pretty mad at him when he's talking about people turning on you when you ask for better discernment he's absolutely talking about that conversation gotcha he's very clearly talking about carrie gotcha you know he said like we've got these secret well the secret space program thing was a little bit too obvious yeah yeah he's just

complaining about carrie cassidy and in project camelot and julia's response is like well people have got to think for themselves yeah there's almost and again like in the same way that delores had a maternal quality to carrie julia has a bit of a maternal thing going on here with kevin or it's like quit whining you crying teenager you're gonna you're gonna grow older than this it's gonna you're gonna get past it you'll have some wisdom that'll come from recognizing that people have choices and sure there's more information and they can take that information to make the choice that they need to make with it that's what they do yeah we're we're in the open you have o community we don't bitch about people because we're all lying you're the worst he's the worst i

hate him so much he's the worst he's a shitty interviewer he's listening to him talk sucks yeah every time he tries to ask a question he winds up asking four questions and then not being interested in the answer to any of them he's a good channeler though i know that from the spirits that he channels they have told me he's very good at it so the spirits he channels have made it very clear how he's very good at channeling he is yeah so in this next clip kevin expresses shock that some of his audience is interested in project camelot which i would say wow i i was shocked at where some of my audience was recently i did not know that we were we my my self my audience were we're actually dividing so much in and how we felt about things wow well then that might be an

indicator right there let's see there again that's that light yeah yeah just shine the light on it and we'll see what happens and i think that and i'm going to do that my next documentary is gonna um not shock a lot of well yeah actually probably will do actually my my next i i i i've i've had to become a a a a journalist now and it's now if i'm unhappy with what's going on in my field then then then then i think i've got to do something about that myself and actually shine some light and and help people see not attack people but help people see that actually uh let's look at the stories of some people and let's let's look at where the evidence is and i never thought i'd be going down that road so i mean there i think you you see that kevin's deciding to be the change

he wishes to see in the world yeah yeah yeah i can't unfortunately can't rely on anybody else to do this for me i gotta do it nope i gotta yeah but this it still seems weirdly personal it is is it just that he is it just that she didn't like she didn't like his questions so now he's like i'm gonna fucking take her down then that's what i'm gonna do has to be because he's interviewed her in the past he's interviewed joanne richards about mark richards in the past he has no standards that he upholds like okay like it was very recent to this that he talked to those time travelers yeah yeah so like nothing about like people putting misinformation out seems to bother him yeah generally yeah i don't know it has to just be personal i think he just got annoyed with her

and then he's gonna god he's the worst dad well this is a petty grudge but maybe or maybe not because i think in this next clip we get something that i think is crucial uh in terms of understanding what's going on here unfortunately these areas like you said they've just been prime prime fields for you know for people to just come in and do all kinds of damage and junk in you know and just put all this this stuff in so that they can mess with people put so much fear oh so much fear so much fear and it's just that's all right you know that and that's that's near and dear to my heart when people play with fear no do you know what julia let me just say something to you that you've hit the nail on the head there that is it i'm going to use the word

fear porn there is so much fear out there right now right in this field so i think that uh julia again is is nailing it on some uh in some sense like she's saying you know what you're seeing is this world that we traffic in is it's been primed for people to be bad actors in yeah so obviously there's going to be some negative things and then they nail down that like ah what it is is fear the fear is the bad thing they're creating fear in people in order to move whatever yeah she sounds wildly self-aware for somebody who believes that there are a lot of alien abductions going on and people can't remember them because they're drunk i think or can remember them because they're a little drunk yeah um yeah i mean you would assume that she believes the same stuff as

delores saying as she's her daughter and she's carried on her work i mean yeah not necessarily that she's her daughter but that she's still running the publishing company yeah would suggest that yeah and the i believe that she also uh runs the delores cannon uh hypnosis thing okay well then yeah so yeah i you'd have to assume there's overlap there and again kevin just really is trying to talk himself into this that like you just can't do nothing he's psyching himself up and he wants her to give him the go ahead yeah almost like he's begging for um approval and i want to go out tonight mom can i go out tonight can i go out tonight come on so much permission as it is like i mean he started when they were talking about like what would your mom

think of this it's almost like looking for the blessing of delores from beyond the grave um buddy he can't just do nothing but all i ever wanted was a truth or a truth that was at least grounded in wanting to be giving people their power back but what's going on right now with this community it's not about taking sides it's now with some things gotta people you can't just sit there and do nothing and well you can that's okay but i'm i'm saying right now i'm not i'm not i'm not gonna do that because the fear has got in and it's destroying a lot of the good work i feel good for you see that's that's the light bringer and you see you're you're the casting that light that's that's your job that's why you're here well i appreciate that so i guess he's got some

approval yeah but still he was called the light bringer this does which is no i definitely has no negative connotations towards that at all but this still doesn't feel like direction right like i can identify that obviously he's been in partnership with this company that's run by the cannon family for over six years at least six years at this point but it doesn't feel like when he's talking about what he feels drawn to do yeah like i've got to expose the project camel right right right i don't feel like this would be what the interview would be like if there was an interest in that from the cannons no just weird so in this last clip here kevin teases his project which we already know what it's going to turn into but he feels like he can't talk about it yet sure and then it just

thanks julia for being supportive we never know where we're going to be guided and it's just a matter of just just follow the guidance that's what's being asked to do then there you go yes yes that that is true and um yep and that's what i'm that's what i'm gonna do yeah and and uh you know uh i wish i could say more right now about what i'm working on um but all i know is that when it's finished it's going to be at least my first bit of light work to shine light on this subject that that that's what it will be so oh i don't say it's the first you've been doing light work for a long time well so have you so have you not just me yeah you don't have i mean this is this is what we are here for i mean this is our journey yes it is it is it is it really is so and and and you

know it just surprised me that sometimes light work takes takes form takes many different forms yes it does yeah yeah so um and we're not even aware of it you know that's just it we have to point it out to each other for doing it well that's what i like about you right i i can get on here right i can i can i can have a little bit of a moan and scream right about about where we're at yeah and you you you just kind of you level it out a bit you know what i mean and uh that that's you get that from your mum as well i'm sure i'm sure you do and um that that's nice to have in this community that that is um yeah it is thank you thank you that's weird wow that is weird i love her yeah i love her she comes off quite well she is killing it yeah so listening to this interview

with julia cannon i'm left with the impression that she and ozark mountain publishing are not what's motivating kevin to attack harry and mark she doesn't seem overly interested in kevin's new project like interested in a polite way yeah you know whatever but not overly so yeah and when he tries to complain about the sism in the ufo community julia tries to contextualize it by saying that's how it's supposed to be this is just what is this is a part of growth as humanity learns and grows it encompasses many things some good some not as good it just doesn't feel like she's pulling any strings here this feels like it's entirely a kevin yeah yeah she sounds super benign and and downright kind and deescalating yeah more than anything yeah and i find that

fascinating i entered this episode kind of thinking that we would look at this clear source of funding of kevin's new age self-help book publisher with a polar opposite view on the paranormal ufo world from carries and i would come away with the sense that they were behind this documentary as a crass business move but i don't feel that way now i think this is actually a thing that's ideological but we've been missing the forest for the trees when we were trying to figure out what the ideology was up till this point before i'd heard kevin talk about how this misinformation in the community was you know it's uh you wanted you wanted better discernment you know i heard him talk about that stuff and i interpreted it too literally i thought he was

offended by people being full of shit and that was what he wanted to push back against that's why it was absurd that he could present himself that way and then do an interview with the fake time travel people right right right that's why it's comical that he would pretend to care about rigorous standards of proof while channeling aliens and off-world intelligences but i had it wrong it's about fear kevin doesn't have a problem with the fact that kary can't prove a damn thing she says because he can't prove anything he says either it's not about research the issue is that kary and project camelot are using fear as the primary element of their content whereas what rings true to him about the universe is messages of hope and love he comes from the canon school they've been his

patron for years now and obviously he looks up to delores quite a bit even seemingly trying to ask for the daughter's blessing what he's embarking on this new project his ideological problem with mark and kary is rooted in this dichotomy of stressing fear or stressing hope but he's being dishonest about that he's presenting things as being about how kary doesn't do or do diligence about the gas she has on as he expresses in the video that he put out when he was explaining his purpose this is the first docu-series of its kind looking into frauds in the ufo and alternative communities that i represent as well can't think of any other documentary about frauds in the ufo to the communities is not only is it damaging to credible researchers but it's also damaging to

people's awakening you know when when people are trying to explore the idea that you know there's a greater reality and when it's met with misinformation and disinformation you know that's something that i can't stand so um you know i've made it my calling right now or part of my calling to show the opposite side of some of these so-called whistleblowers so the way he's framing this is like exposing frauds in the community they do a disservice to legitimate researchers he presents it like that so much but underneath it i don't believe that's the case i think it's that he resents that they're not on the canon side of things because he resonates more with the new agey stuff whereas kary is more into the secret space program and the holographic med

beds and super soldiers of it all right right there are two sides of this thing much like julia was expressing these two branches coming off the trunk as things grow as the community grows obviously there's going to be these different offshoots right kevin can't handle that he can't stand it he's sensed rejection from that side of things for asking questions yeah it's yeah yeah i don't think he's i don't think he's ideologically against it no i think he is i think i think in the general sense uh yes i don't think he is above uh uh disregarding his ideology if kary likes him a lot i think i think he his ideologically but his ideology kicks in real hard whenever somebody doesn't like him but if you take a closer examination of the videos

that he puts out on his channel you will see a massive um airing on the side of these messages of hope these um non fear based messages so it's clear that his body of work does um lean towards that side yeah there is a clear ideological distinction that is interesting you you've reframed it obviously i took a uh mind numbingly literally the idea of me too it's about research and shit like that and that's why it's because that's how we that's how we would think about it you know like oh well if you say you're trying to debunk things and you are then you have to of course look back at yourself and think what a what you keep remove the splinter from your eye etc but uh man he is that's fun that's interesting but that's how you can present it as i'm exposing

frauds and not get into the fact that you have no proof of anything you're talking about exactly it's because what the exposure is really deep down on a visceral emotional level it's the they use fear i use hope yeah more or less now the other thing too is i mean you can't get away from it is there is clearly a personal thing here like he he has said in some of those things that we've covered the like i'm going to make more documentaries in the future but these ones about like carry mark and simon parks are based they're more personal yeah they're based in something that he's mad about yeah i feel like i have a better understanding of where kevin's coming from now but i still think he's an asshole he explicitly is said you know when he's talking to julia that

his concern is that there's fear porn and negativity dividing the ufo community and it's not about consciousness enough where he thinks that that's the root of all this stuff but then when he's trying to sell his documentary he's pushing it as an expose about frauds when he's talking to julia he says he's not attacking carry or the richards is the mark and joanne but in his promotional videos he fucking taunts joanne by threatening to expose details about her previous marriages like this is bullshit you can't behave that way and pretend that you're like i'm not going to go about attacking people and then attack them yeah you can't pretend that this is about love and fear that you know the splitting of the ufo community and then sell it as like they don't that they're

guests yeah you can't it's so dishonest yeah it is but at the same time i don't think you could actually be honest with julia i don't think you i don't think anybody could like if julia is talking to me i'm going to be like i'm going to say the nicest possible things that i can and then deep down inside i'm going to be filled with rage and hatred but to her i'm going to be like you know what you're absolutely right we should we should forgive everybody and we should all do the stuff when i set out to do this or this episode in particular it was looking into that element of this that i think is uh was a dangling thread yeah trying to figure out why mark or i'm sorry where why kevin did this and the the question of you think it has anything to do with uh the

his sponsor yeah and at the end of this i feel pretty confident that this is not a follow the money situation i really do too i think it's a kevin more as an asshole situation also i feel like if i'm ever mad i want to call julia and i'm sure she'll be able to talk me down yep and you can uh try an email or see if you can get a consult see that sounds like a great idea but jordan no matter what no matter how many times kevin wants to say that he wants good research in the ufo community he's also a guy who runs a psychic hotline and with a straight up face uh a serious look on his face did this he doesn't need to change his voice or act in a different way great so so do better research on that he's he's not a very good impressionist he does a good jack

nicholson have you heard of marisa marsh once jack nicholson dies you will channel him and you handle that generally i also don't do good voices i like that i like that i think that's a good nicholson so anyway i i um i needed something to that would that interested me a little bit to really get the juices going after that disappointing chunk of listening to alex gotta get out of the present day do a little wacky wednesday thing and one of the things that was really sticking in my craw was that question of the the money and looking into that a little bit more and while i think it's fascinating that this is clearly an organization the ozark mountain uh uh publishing and de lores cannon it's clearly an opposing worldview of the space nonsense weirdos and

it's interesting that they have been funding kevin for as long as they have but i don't know if that's related i don't think it is i i still i still have no concrete answer as to why he's doing this that doesn't go back to uh ideological opposition of like him being a part of that camp that is opposite to project camelot's camp and him being mad that is it's this is really good for me because i in all of our project camelot excursions it never i really never even thought that there was i thought about the new agee wing of that whole ufo community i've always been in this in this space of like my viewpoint on that ufo community is there's a guy with a telescope you know like that kind of thing has always been so broad that's where it's always been in my in

my mind so this is really interesting there's the new agee side there's the the hard sci-fi side which you might like more which is more about like the the machines yes of it the can go north how does that ufo fly well actually what do you use a combustion engine you know batter and anti batter will you have a hundred percent bird that's not actually true they fly with their minds we all know that dammit so anyway we'll be back on friday with a non space episode but until then we have a website we do it's knowledge fight dot com we're also on twitter we are on twitter it's that knowledge underscore fight in that go to bed jordan and on face book we are i did a yoda you did a baby yoda uh and then uh if you would like to tell the show go to itunes share tell other

people leave a review all that stuff i am told helps yes um we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm dzx clark i do not have to change my voice andy and chansas you're on the air thanks for holding so alexa my first name caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you