Knowledge Fight - #375: November 29, 2019

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan take a look at Alex Jones' show from the day after Thanksgiving. No one is thankful for the path that Alex seems to be going down, as he welcomes a very dicey guest to the show.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge everybody welcome back to knowledge fight. I'm Dan I'm Jordan we're a couple dudes like to sit around drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed we are Dan Jordan Dan Jordan. Do you have a regional saying that you appreciate the most like I know we've talked about the proof of the pudding is in the that's now regional and the fight exactly. That's what I'm saying. That's just the correct. I'm just saying is there one that you recall that was like maybe you brought it out into the larger world in Chicago and somebody's like I have never heard that crazy shit. You've said before. I don't know. Maybe I

don't know boy. Howdy isn't a good one boy. Howdy. That's not that's just a greeting knee high to a bull weevil. I've that's an old timey one. See there we go regional so much. I've always heard knee high to a duck. The other things that stick out in my mind are like weird things like fitting fit into like. Oh yeah. Yeah. To do that. I'm fit. That was pretty big in Missouri. I don't know if that's region. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not very malleable by way of language. Yeah. You're more aerodite if you will. That's not how I would put it. I just don't caught into slang too much. Right. It's not. I feel silly. Wait. Did you say you don't cotton to slang too much? Yeah. Okay. Well that seems I don't. I don't. It's an oxymoron. I

feel silly using these things like I make a joke out of it on fleek. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that. Like I just don't feel like my personality doesn't fit well with like yeah. And I don't know. Maybe I feel like regional colloquialisms are kind of the same way. But I don't know. Yeah. I understand. Probably is some stuff. But it doesn't nothing sticks out too much in my mind. Yeah. You have one. I you're from this area though. I'm from Southern Illinois, right, which is not too far away from yeah, whatever. But yeah, I remember all of them were about fishing because my grandpa was my grandpa was huge into fishing to the point where he took my grandma fishing on their honeymoon

because she was 16 at the time and leave that alone. Yeah. Southern Illinois business. That's from that's the 1930s right there. Right. That's a great depression marriage it. But it was always like the crappie. You're really biting today and you're like I I don't know what you're talking about. We're not fishing right now. So great. But that sounds I get that. Yeah. No, I get it. Like undecipherable. No, I wasn't. Yeah, but that was just an example I made up. It was something far more inscrutable. Sure. Yeah. To the point where I can't remember any of them. Yeah, I don't know. I apologize. I don't know. I'm drawn a little bit of a blank. I apologize as well for the same

situation. This is a show where I don't know a whole lot about times that I've adopted regional slang, but I do know a lot about Alex Jones and I don't know anything about either. That's correct. So Jordan today. We're doing an episode. I don't want to do and we'll get to that here in a moment. But before we do, we take a little moment to say thank you to some folks who have signed up in our sporting show. So first Fred with two D's. What thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Fred. Next Jeff with two F's. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Is it doesn't start with a

G? No. No, it's J F F really standard. Totally normal, but two F's. All right. Next Rachel. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Rachel. Next Salman salmon X. There's an X at the end of the word salmon. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you so much. Thank you. There's always there's so many references where I'm like that's got to be a reference and I have no idea to what I feel so out of out of touch. Next Luke. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. That's a Bible reference, Dan. I got that one. Could be next Sean. Thank

you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you Sean. And finally, I'd like to say thank you to a couple of people who donated on elevated level. We appreciate that very much. So William. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat and Amy. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. Crocky, mate. That's fantastic. Have yourself a brew. How's your 401k doing, bro? We got to go full tilt buggy on this Watson. All right. Let's just get down to business. We ain't making that money off that heroin. Why are you pimp so good? My neck is freakishly large. I declare info war on you. Thank you so

much, William and Amy. Yes. Thank you very much, William and Amy. If you're out there listening or thinking, hey, I enjoy what these gents do, I'd like to sign up and support the show. You can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking the button that says support the show. We would appreciate it. We could use it. Yeah. So Jordan, today we are going over November 29th, 2019, and actually we're not going over the whole episode because a lot of it is not nearly as important as an interview that Alex has on that show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We, on our last episode, we saw Alex go pretty hard against the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League,

and in the process of doing that, some of his callers called an expressing kind of more overt anti-Semitic ideas. Hey, you know, we all talk about things in our own way. Alex opens the door up with this sort of language. A caller calls in is like, hey, there's an investigation by the LaRouche people. You should promote another caller calls in and says, hey, you really need to talk to this guy, E. Michael Jones. Okay. And Alex is not super aware of who this guy is, but the caller is like, he's right on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'd hope that that wouldn't go anywhere, but Alex within a matter of days, four days in four days, three days. If you count 25th as

one day, sure, or whatever. Yeah, three business days. Okay. Alex has E. Michael Jones as a guest on his show and there's some really problem. I don't know. I don't want to say problematic because that seems trite. There's some real problems with him having him on the show. I the word atrocious pops into my mind. Right. There's some issues with ever having him on your show to begin with, which we'll discuss, but there's some secondary issues that are unique to Alex Jones and info wars having him on as a guest that I think make this way worse. Okay. And I hope that we'll be able to get through this decently. I think we will do our best. Oh,

but because this is going to be very, you know, focused and singularly pointed on this interview, I thought we'd get warmed up by, uh, is this going to be Sasha Banks theme song again? No. Okay. Although we could use it. Um, just get warmed up here with the clip of Alex talking about a headline that he's putting out. Okay. You know, just to get our toes wet. All right. Now there has been a bill introduced to ban Krav Magov, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, kickboxing, Tai Chi, all firearms training in Virginia. And again, that shows you where all of this is going. They want to outlaw citizens being able to defend themselves from anti

fraud, from the communist from all the rest of it where I live in Austin. There are giant packs of communist in black and red mask, beating people up, attacking buildings where white people live. These are white people, by the way, almost all of them in the, in the black mask. It's been revealed saying that if you have a cat sanctuary in East Austin, or you build a new building there, that it's gentrification. They're going to city council members homes and threatening them. They're splitting people's heads open in Austin. The police indicted one of them and the city drop charges under orders by the prosecutor who's on board

with them. Once they get the police in place, the prosecutors in place, they have total reign of terror over you. And your only recourse will be defending yourself with deadly force when they try to kill you. Wait, they are so pissed that their Soros funded method devil or spur armies cannot have their way with us. And so they are making their move by banning Krav Magov, Tai Chi, gun training, all of it. Okay. All self-defense, all Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. How about karate? Totally gone. All right. You can still do judo because it's like dodging, right? Is judo is a throwing and dodging, but mainly throw it's still out. Okay.

Fair enough. So it should come as no surprise that Alex is lying about this Virginia bill. This is a reporting that he's basing on a story that was originally put out by Mike Adams at natural news that argued that a proposed bill would outlaw all firearms training and all martial arts. You could get that sense from the bill. If you don't read it, since it does say that it would be unlawful. If you quote, assemble with one or more persons for the purpose of training with practicing with or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique capable of causing death to

persons. That could definitely include a lot of martial arts and definitely recover pretty much all shooting range classes. Yep. That's tyranny. Bada bang boy. I really feel like the hammer is going to come with like a to create a paramilitary force hell bent on destroying the entire union. I feel like it's a really simple bill sharpened by this show because the sentence ends with the qualification of what circumstances under which those activities would be illegal quote intending to employ such training in use in or in furtherance of a civil disorder. Right. Right. Right. Right. Also, this law has

been on the book since nineteen eighty seven. All that's happening now is that there's slight changes being made to the language of the bill. For instance, to include marching with weapons with the intent of intimidating a person or group of persons right as prohibited paramilitary activity. Oathkeepers. Well, I mean I would argue although that would also count against the Black Panthers in the late sixties. Yeah, absolutely. I think that this bill comes down to the interpretation of what intent to intimidate a person or group is right. Right. And I don't know what would fall under that, but I would assume that the

Oathkeepers would still be able to march with weapons. Yeah, totally fine. I assume that I don't think that they would fall under. I assume that the Black Panthers would not be able to march with weapons and the Oathkeepers would not be able to march with weapons. I'm not sure. Very possible at this point. When I was looking into it, still a proposed bill. I have no idea. The thing that's notable about this is you can find tons of right wing blogs, picking up this story and reporting on it as tyranny coming out into the open. Sure. I'll have a very similar tone. There's a write up about this on tacticalshit.com,

which includes a picture of an Instagram post about the bill saying, quote, you want to start the bug? This is how and why you start the bug. A comment on this quote. This might. This just might be what kicks off the second Civil War. These two people are saying the same thing since Boogaloo has recently become shorthand that right wing extremists used to flippantly discuss the coming second Civil War. Okay. God, they're so stupid. Civil War two electric Boogaloo. They're children. They're fucking children. I hate them. It's just another and a long string of ways that these dangerous fucks have tried to normalize

their fantasies of justified violence and turned discussion of them into catchy teams. Yeah, the great minimize the idea of killing each are we are we murdering hundreds of thousands of people? If not millions, no, we're just starting the bug Dan. That's all we're doing. Alex knows what he's doing by selling this fake narrative about this bill. He's trying to raise the temperature and help disseminate something that will provide that reaction from these communities. So that's great, but it's very consistent. You know, so now we get to this production here and here we go. Now. Joining us this hour is E. Michael Jones.

He was recommended to me off and on a few times and I'd forgotten that I even read one of his books years ago, Monsters from the Id. Oh, no. And his website is culture wars.com. He was a professor and he was removed because he was pro life. And he's been massively persecuted. He's been a big target of the ADL that's been calling for big techs arrest if they don't submit who've been called for my quote purging. So I wanted to get him on about this big move for total censorship, total control, but really he's an expert on societal collapse. Don't the plan to take our morals away so we can be easily enslaved and

controlled code in one clip. My worst fear is about the direction of Alex Jones's show, the way it's trending were completely confirmed. The very idea that he would have E. Michael Jones on as a guest and given that sort of an introduction is so revealing about the way things are going. For one thing, E. Michael Jones is a well documented anti-Semite. When Alex says that this guy is an expert on societal collapse, it would probably be worthwhile to point out to his audience that he thinks society is collapsing because of the Jews. In his publication, The Jews and Moral Subversion E Michael Jones says that there is quote a group

that is responsible for virtually every social ill in our day from the wars in the Middle East to pornography and gay marriage at home, namely the Jews around whose evil machinations, the access of history turns. Okay, so it's not the buddy comedy that I was expecting. No, Jones and Jones detective Jews and moral subversion. Gotcha. Not that one. No. Okay. When Alex went off on his Jag the other day about the ADL and Sasha Baron Cohen speech, you could very clearly see that his audience took that as a green light to bring some harder core anti-Jewish talking points into the

conversation. That in and of itself isn't really surprising, nor was it really that surprising that one of his callers would suggest that he should interview E. Michael Jones. What is surprising is that Alex not only said, that sounds like a good idea, and he followed through with the booking in a matter of days. This tells me a number of things, any of which could be possible. It may be the case that Alex knows who this guy is and still wanted to have him on, which would be fucked up. It may be the case that he didn't know who he was, but decided to book him without doing any research, which would be also pretty fucked up. But

even if that is the case, that means that there's literally no one working it in for wars who decided to step in and say, Alex, this is not a good booking. I know you're mad at Sasha Baron Cohen right now, but this is not the way to go about doing it. Yeah, I assume if you just Google his name, at least one of the top five results are this dude is a fucking Nazi. It's very easy to find information. Yeah, I'm inclined to believe that if you're considering having E Michael Jones on your show, there's no way you can possibly claim ignorance of who he is and what he stands for. His track record is long and very overt. In

2007, he gave a speech at the DC Press Club at a memorial for Samuel T. Francis, himself a profound racist alleged journalist. This event was supposed to be aired on C-Span. It never aired, according to people who were in attendance because E Michael Jones gave a shockingly offensive speech. I should point out the people who called the speech shockingly offensive were people who worked for organizations like the White Nationalist publication V Dare. Even they thought Jones was way out of line. Yeah, Himmler was like Jesus man, calm it down. They were at a memorial for a man who once wrote quote, breaking

down the sexual barriers between the races is a major weapon of cultural destruction. Oh, E Michael Jones made them say, well, that's a bit much. Okay. All right. So the so segregation now segregation forever is even that dude's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. I couldn't find video of the speech, but I did find a version of it in print that Jones himself published and I would say I can see how someone would find this very offensive. Here are some choice passages from his speech. Oh, no. Quote, as the Gospel of Saint John makes clear, the Jews became the Jews the minute they

rejected Christ as such their only identity is negative. Boy, that doesn't sound right. Oh, quote, if what's left of the wasp establishment or the paleo conservatives or other men of goodwill want to do something effective in the culture wars, they will have to understand just who the enemy is in this battle. In case you're curious, he later clarifies, quote, the real enemy. It turns out was the revolutionary Jew. That's that's not the twist ending that I was expecting from this Agatha Christy mystery, but okay should have expected. Yeah, I should have quote many,

if not most of us are here today because our careers have already been destroyed by the revolutionary Jew and his Goyish frontmen. The Jews spy on us through our computers. They suborn fellow Catholics to betray us, get us fired, prevent us from speaking. Our backs are to the wall. And when was this? This was in 2007. This was not in 2007. You're not allowed. Jesus. This was a big deal in conservative circles 12 years ago and Jones has not toned it down at all since that point. There's literally zero excuse to have him on your show unless you're an anti-semite or possibly in the rare circumstance that

you think you're capable of having a confrontational interview with him, even though I really don't think that's even a great idea, but I can understand how someone might do that. Yeah, I could. I could see that, but I would say it's ill advised. Oh boy. I'm really disappointed in Alex ever since he was kicked off social media since his feelings about Trump have started to waffle a little bit. It's kind of been like watching a coin flip heads. He goes back to being a coded speech conspiracy guy who's mad that three people voted in the Federal Reserve and he gets to hang out with Ron Paul's brother tales. He

becomes the worst version of himself possible. When I was doing some research for a 2013 episode, I came across an article in The Daily Beast about the tendency of people to subscribe to conspiracy theories. The main thesis is a familiar one, basically by ascribing guilt for a largely random event to a defined enemy, you can subconsciously feel more in control of your life. However, the article included a quote from Stephen Lewandowski, a professor of psychology from the University of Western Australia, who has he's dedicated a good bit of his time to studying the conspiracy community. And I think his comments are

particularly relevant right now. Lewandowski is discussing the dynamic at play with conspiracy peddlers like Alex or Glenn Beck and how the conspiracy economy is comprised of both these peddlers and of consumers of the information. And these groups, their motivations for engaging with conspiracies might be completely different. He suggests it's possible that these people like Alex and Glenn Beck may be motivated by money or attention going on to say, quote, I can't look inside their heads, but there's a lot of suggestive evidence that people say crazy things sometimes just to be noticed. I know this from my

work on climate change denial. Because if no one is listening to these guys or fewer people are listening to them, the more over the top they go and the crazier their pronouncements become. I think they're watching themselves being ignored. And that's the one thing they hate. So they crank up the volume and spread their falsehoods and nonsense. I think that might be some of what's going on here as well. He's talking about Glenn Beck's behavior after the Boston bombing and Alex's as well. He's suggesting that that was a play there. I would also argue that that dynamic is true for a bachelor in paradise.

I've not watched it, but I'll take your word for it. I fear that the situation we found ourselves in in 2019 is one where Alex is experiencing himself be ignored. He can get local protesters to yell at him when he shows up to rallies in a tank, but he can't really translate that into marketable attention. He's no longer the meme machine and his triggering tricks don't really work anymore. No one's really interested in his dumb shit. He doesn't have any super packs to buy his book to make it artificially the number one seller. He never really wrote many books to begin with.

Reading is tough and writing is harder. Way harder. In many ways, we've already seen this playing out on his show in the past year. His rhetoric has escalated in a lot of horrifying ways. The disgusting over the top obsession with delivering elaborate fantasies about kids being murdered in his demon voice is just one of many manifestations of that. I don't know how else to describe so much of what Alex is doing these days other than him cranking up the volume. Z seems to be being ignored and he can't tolerate that. Yeah. Embracing the void and I think that this interview accepting it, doing it. I can't see it as much

else other than that also. Yeah. Because you can't really claim ignorance. Yeah. I mean, you can, but I'm not sure I believe you. Before we get into this, I need to make clear that Alex Jones and E Michael Jones are not capable of having a coherent conversation because they're both playing games, but they're kind of different games. Alex Jones is super into white identity and Christian identity. He extols the virtue of the West, which we've heard him explain repeatedly as more or less just code for white cultures. There's a heavy racial element to what drives Alex. While it's true that his worldview is structurally supported by

historical anti-Semitism, it's not so clear that he necessarily hates Jewish people. Yeah. Conversely, E Michael Jones is not primarily concerned with race. In fact, he believes that if you identify by your race, you're falling for a Jewish trick. As he put it, quote, you lost the battle when you became white because they get to define your identity and you didn't. He adheres to a fundamentalist version of Catholicism and views most of the world's history as a battle between Judaism and the Catholic Church, where all of the criticisms you might have about the Catholic Church are really just things that the Jews were

at fault for. Sure, there was that whole thing about priests, molesting kids, but they only did that because the Jews sexualized society. Okay, so we're not. So we're talking about Torquemata. That's what we're doing right now. We're going there. You'll find a lot of arguments like that. Okay, all right. Okay, gotcha. That's what I'm saying. Gotcha. One of the hallmarks of Jones's rhetoric is the idea of logos. If you listen to enough anti-Semitic, leaning, right-wing content like Owen Benjamin, for instance, you'll hear the word come up a bunch. Generally, as someone saying that logos is rising and when you do, that's a

reference to E Michael Jones. The foundation of his worldview is that the Jews killed Christ, who was a pure manifestation of logos, essentially reasoned in the universe and that kind of thing. All right. And because they did that, they're all evil. All right. He literally expressed this on a podcast called Red Pill Religion, saying, quote, the Jewish people as a group called for the death of Jesus Christ, the Jewish people as a group killed Christ, and they are enemies of the entire human race. Wait, so he thinks they were all fucking there? Essentially every Jew was at that fucking speech. I fucking a Jesus man. What

it's Jewish? What do we got? It's it's it's a mess. So, so what we're dealing with here, if I understand correctly is Alex Jones is it's possible that he's anti-Semitic incidentally as a as a result of his white, identitarian nonsense, whereas E Michael Jones is fucking in it. Yes, in it to fucking, but his version of anti-Semitism was a little more complicated than what you might find on just some run of the mill neo-nazi, right, right of because he has he has this religious aspect that's meddled into it and a lot of neo-nazi stuff does to but it's yeah, it's more complicated and I hope I think you'll understand as we

go along, but it's and as far as Alex goes, you know, I don't I don't want to say he's incidentally. I would say that whether or not he's aware of it, his world is based on it right incidentally is not the word. I think I was more going with consequentially in that regard, not even comfortable with that. I would say that he's had every opportunity in the course of his career to understand where his beliefs come from and he has either refused to or never looked. So whatever the case is, it both damning beyond all reason. Yeah, the beginning of their conversation through between the two Joneses, it centers

primarily around the ADL, which adds an extra layer of difficulty in trying to parse out what these people are saying for Alex. When he complains about the ADL, he's really complaining about the globalists for E Michael. When he complains about the ADL, he's talking about Jews in general. The there's even further blurring that complicates things that and that is the E Michael Jones plays kind of fast and loose when he is talking about what he means when he says the Jews. He doesn't believe that Jewish is an ethnic identity. So his position seems to be that he's only against religious Jews, but that doesn't make

any sense given that so many of the Jewish organizations that he's in conflict with aren't religious organizations. Okay, it's all very complicated. I promise I'm going to try my best to maneuver some of this pretty dicey territory, but I want to apologize up front if I make any missteps along the way. Right, right, right. A lot of mess. So could you so could you get away from him if you're like no, no, no, no, I'm a non practicing Jew or or even if you're like no, I'm more of a Christmas and Easter type Jew. You know, I don't go to church all the will get to it along the road. I know that he doesn't have a

problem with Jews for Jesus Jews who have converted to Christianity man. This I know that much. This fucking dude. Yeah, ultimately for Alex and E Michael, both of their positions are rooted in historical anti semitism. So they're able to have a conversation that on the surface, surface appears to make sense to both of them, but they're talking around different things. And I don't know how much I believe Alex isn't aware of that. My advice for Alex, if I was an employee at info wars, let's say maybe his dad who works. I don't know if his dad still works in HR, but I'd like to imagine he still does. Even if I

didn't work at it in four years and I was Alex's dad, I would have told him if you're going to go on the attack against the ADL, the last guest you should have on to help you is someone with decades long history of overt agro anti semitism. This is a terrible decision to make. All right. I know the decision itself speaks volumes. I dad. I respect your opinion, but I need to find out if he's my real dad. The same last name, according to Alex, that's proof enough for fair a whole bunch of other great, great. So the introduction continues. I appreciate E Michael Jones of culture wars.com joining the info war today. So

sir, thanks for coming on with us. You've got the floor here to start wherever you'd like. First, you could make the argument, you know, like if you just look at this from an external perspective, you could make the argument that Alex just wants to have this guy on the same way he wanted to have David do con back in 2015 as a way of trying to debate someone who also they both, you know, they all believe in a grand conspiracy. You have different ideas about the nature of the conspiracy. Yeah, if you listen to that intro, that is not the sort of thing Alex is doing here. This is a friendly, very respectful

introduction. It is not confrontational. And to me, this is a massive disappointment. Yeah, this is a couple years ago. Alex had David do con and all he wanted to do was try and be like, Hey, we both believe in this stuff, but you're bogged down in the race stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now he has someone who I don't know favorably or unfavorably could be compared to David Duke and he's just like, Hey, buddy, man, that's no good. No, that's just no good. So this is not a situation where he's bringing him on to try and flesh out the finer differences between our worldviews. So like I said, they start

by talking about the ADL and it doesn't it doesn't take the entire it goes off the rails this interview. But it does start with some complaints mostly about Sasha Baron Cohen. Sure. Again, I regret to inform you, these guys are mad at Borat. Great. We just saw a major move on the part of the ADL. Just this past week, they gave an award to Sasha Baron Cohen. And he in response gave a speech that I thought was kind of chilling. He starts demanding that censorship be imposed on the internet, and that the ADL be in charge of the censorship. And then he goes on to say, if you big tech people don't do it, we're going to

throw you in jail. This was kind of a shocking turn of events by an organization that suddenly is supposed to be put in charge of what we are thinking about what we're allowed to say on the ADL. I'm sorry, what we're allowed to say on the internet. So the first lie here is him saying that Sasha Baron Cohen speech included him saying that there needs to be censorship online and demands that the ADL be in charge of that censorship. You could probably make an argument that he was calling for a form of online censorship in as much as a platform like Facebook and very easily strike things like Holocaust denial

from their platform easily without infringing on anyone's right to free speech. It's a matter of disentangling the idea of censorship from the idea of oppression. Sometimes censorship is appropriate. All of that aside, in his speech, Cohen was not demanding that the ADL be in charge of online censorship. That's probably how someone like E Michael Jones might feel watching the speech, but it wasn't what Cohen was saying. Well, he was speaking to a Jewish led organization. So naturally, the only thing that he could assume is that he wants the ADL to control all censorship and all speech anywhere, Dan.

Uh-huh. Second lie, Jones is very clearly trying to play fast and loose with who is doing what to whom. Saying that Cohen was saying that if these tech companies didn't go along with the ADL's censorship demands, then we're going to throw you in jail. That's specifically meant to subconsciously implant the idea in the listener's head that the ADL has the authority to send you to jail. In reality, it's very clear if you listen to the speech that Cohen was advocating for the passage of laws or regulations that would place some responsibility on these social media platforms for atrocities that are

facilitated by them. I know, again, that to someone like E Michael Jones, that feels like the ADL sending you to jail if they don't like your free speech, but it's a complete misrepresentation of what's being said. This is the difference between feeling versus reality, narrative versus, um, what narrative versus critique. Here's what I'm going to say. If I hear a sentence like, hey, if you facilitate another genocide, you should go to jail and you hear, well, they're just going to throw us all in jail. That suggests something very specific to me. Sure. You're for the whole, you know, let's

stop talking about. Yeah. So he has some other things to say about the ADL here and I don't like the way this is going. Who is the ADL? What is this organization? It's an organization that was founded to protect the pedophile. The name of the pedophile was Frank. In 1913, he was arrested for sexually molesting and then murdering a 13 year old girl who worked in his pencil factory. At this point, he went on trial. He was found guilty and then a series of attempts to overturn appeals took place. The appeals went all the way to the Supreme Court. Every single appeal reaffirmed the original

decision. And at that point, the governor of Georgia commuted a sentence one day before he was leaving office. At this point, the people of Georgia rose up an army of about 2000 armed men approached the governor's mansion. And at that point, the governor fled to New York City, where the Jewish media basically created him as a hero. This is an organization that began by protecting a pedophile and then continued in an operation where the main point of this operation was to make sure the Jewish criminals did not go to jail. I think you can tell by this man's mode of speech that he might have

some more extreme positions than he's leading on on air. Oh, no. Saying that the governor fled to New York, whereupon the Jewish media turned him into a hero is a bit of a red flag on its own. If Alex didn't realize it already, only a minute into this interview, he has every reason to think he's in deep trouble. This guy is clearly a much bolder brand of anti-Semite than he's used to dealing with. And he's also very slick. There's a real important piece of the case of Leo Frank that E. Michael Jones is just kind of glossing over here. And that's that after these men that he's talking about. And as far as I

can tell, there were less than 2000 of them. But the way he's putting it, they quote, approached the governor's mansion. After that, they broke into the prison Frank was being held in, seized him and lynched him. They were proud of themselves, even posing for pictures along the way in a disgusting display of mob activity. While it is true that Leo Frank was convicted of the murder of this 13 year old, Mary Fagan. And it is true that his appeals were rejected. It's the almost universal consensus among historians that he was probably innocent and at very least did not get a fair trial. The case of Leo Frank is

endlessly complicated. And it'd be pretty impossible for me to lay out every detail about it here. So the best I can do is point out some places where E. Michael Jones version are less than honest. He says that the ADL was quote founded to protect a pedophile. In this case, Frank is the alleged pedophile. There's no evidence other than rumor that Frank was sexually involved with this girl, though he was convicted of murder. Sexual assault charges were never brought against him, and that's never been proven. Jones is further saying that the ADL was founded to defend Leo Frank. And that's somewhat disingenuous. It is

true that the ADL was founded after Frank was convicted and that his conviction was one of the issues cited when they formed. It wasn't like they created this organization specifically to protect him. And now it's grown into what it is today. Yeah. If you look at the history of the case and the trial that led to the conviction, you can easily see how this is the sort of thing that could be a signpost about some dangerous societal attitudes, regardless of the outcome or even Frank's personal guilt or innocence. For instance, as the trial was proceeding, groups of people would rally around the courthouse chanting hang the

Jew. The environment in Georgia was so openly hostile to Jews that according to the times of Israel, after Frank's lynching, half the state's Jewish population left the state. Yeah, this is more what the ADL was formed in response to, and it's absurd to imagine that E. Michael Jones doesn't realize that he's creating a scapegoat out of Leo Frank in the same way that Lynch mob did back in 1915. Interestingly, Jones seems to ignore the other group that grew out of this case, which is the second Ku Klux Klan, which was relaunched in Stone Mountain, Georgia at a meeting slash cross burning that was

attended by some of the very men who lynched Leo Frank. These are elements of the story that E. Michael Jones is intentionally leaving out because he's trying to recruit. This is the stuff that's fine to know once you're in the door, but you don't want people to know it when they're just first taking in the message. Yeah, you want to ignore the fact that Leo Frank was probably innocent and was lynched by a number of people who would go on to be a part of the formation of the second clan because those details would tend to turn uninitiated people people off from the message you're trying to push. And Alex

is letting him. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm glad for that extra context, but if you just said 1913 trial and non white, I would have been like he was probably innocent. That's just a yeah. There's a lot of dynamics in terms of the case and it's far too complicated to get into. Of course. Of course. So he goes on. Jones goes on. It's very complicated because his last name is Jones. Pretty much throughout this. If I say Jones, I'm referring to E. Michael Jones. Right. I'll call Alex Alex. But so Jones has another criminal that the ADL is supposed to protect. The main point of this operation was to make sure the

Jewish criminals did not go to jail. Meyer Lansky is an example of one person I'm talking about gave the ADL a lot of money. It didn't work at that time. So weird for you, Michael Jones to use Meyer Lansky as his next example of a Jewish criminal. The ADL tried to defend. Mayor Lansky was a big time mob figure who's associated with people like Lucky Luciano and was in deep with organized crime, to be sure. He was mostly operating gambling rackets and made a ton of money in that hustle. In 1970 facing prosecution, he fled to Israel, which is exactly what neo-nazis say all Jewish people get to do because of the

right of return. They can just commit whatever crimes they want. And when it gets too hot, they go to Israel and they can hide out there. But that's not what happened. Israel deported Lansky back to the United States to stand trial, where he was acquitted. And most sources I can find say it was because he was too ill to stand trial. I guess the fact that he got extradited is what Jones means when he says it didn't work that time. But honestly, I think his point is just incoherent. It might be worth noting that the neo-nazi crowd really, really doesn't like Mayor Lansky. I have a suspicion that these folks might be a

little biased about the guy because outside of being a famous mobster, he spent a good amount of his time busting heads at American Nazi rallies. Here's Lansky describing how he disrupted a brown shirt rally in Manhattan. Quote, the stage was decorated with a swastika and a picture of Hitler. The speakers started ranting. There were only 15 of us, but we went into action. We threw some of them out of windows. Most of the Nazis panicked and ran out. We chased them and beat them up. We wanted to show them that Jews would not always sit back and accept insults. Interestingly, you can see how publications like

the National Vanguard spin this. Quote, Lansky's gang took time off from clipping suckers and murdering rivals to break up perfectly legal meetings of the pro-white and pro-national socialist German-American Bund. They even presented as a case of these these white rally goers being deprived of their free speech, which that rhetorical strategy, of course, has deep roots and continues to this day in these fucking awful circles. It's really cool how you used to be able to say very innocently the pro-white, pro-nationalist, socialist Bund. Why would anybody object to that? That's not something that used to be said. That's

a national Vanguard is saying currently Jesus Christ. Yeah, these fucking people. Yeah, so you know and you can even see overlap with that like these, the you know this National Vanguard idea of like, you know, hey, these these Nazis just wanted to have a rally and then these Jews know to talk about their free speech. No, you can even hear sort of echoes of that in the. Hey, these, the ADL wants to say, hey, you guys shouldn't allow hate speech like Holocaust denial. Yeah, they're depriving me of my free speech. Sure. So you kind of see how nothing ever really changes. You guys know what you're defending is free

speech and you know damn well what it means and go fuck yourselves Nazis. So far the two criminals E Michael Jones is saying that the ADL was set up to protect our, I probably wrongly convicted man who subsequently lynched by future Klansman and by far the most prominent person who fought back against the American Nazi party during World War Two. So far, so good. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. You guys got a type. He has a third example, a guy named Mo Dahlitz, who is a bootlegger and eventual casino guy. I don't really understand the point Jones is trying to make about him. I think it's just that the ADL awarded him their

torch of liberty award and Jones is convinced that it's just because he gave a bunch of money. Something that bears mentioning is that what E Michael Jones is putting out unchallenged on Alex's show right now is identical to what's put out by the National Vanguard. Their article about the ADL uses all of these same examples and has almost an identical tone. The National Vanguard is an explicitly neo Nazi organization. Alex legitimately might as well have the National Vanguard on his as a guest on his show. Yeah, he's got a Nazi on the show. It's not that simple, but I know what you're saying. Yeah. So Alex has a

response to this. Um, and I think it's telling. And again, I'm not anti Israel. I'm not anti Jewish anything. This is a group by mafia, knowing that Americans don't want to persecute people for religion or for race or anything to then, as you said, be a money laundering operation for international mafia, international crime to go after anyone that exposes any of these criminal activities. And now this mafia wants to arrest the big tech heads. This is extortion. It's a racket. Just like the mafia says, I'll burn down your grocery store. If you don't pay me protection money, they're saying to Mark Zuckerberg,

who, by the way, is Jewish, is a Jewish man being threatened with arrest. If he doesn't give this group of pirates full control over his company. So it's, it's a very dangerous mafia. That rebuttal is really dumb, but the only reason Alex is saying this, I believe, I think, uh, is that he can tell he's talking to an anti-Semite about the ADL. That's why he's stressing that he's not anti Jewish or anti Israel and how Zuckerberg is Jewish. I suspect that that's a subtle way for Alex to hint to E Michael to speak in the Queen's English, if you will. It's kind of a way of saying, don't say the things you want to say

without having the discomfort of that actual conversation on air. Hey, buddy, hey, buddy, get that sense. Hey, some of my best friends are Jewish, buddy. Come on now. I feel that way. Yeah, because it would be really hard to hear the things that Jones has been saying up to this point and not be like kind of get what you're laying down. He said Jewish media. Uh, he did. So I, that's, that's not like the ADL specific TV channel. Okay. He's talking about exactly what he's talking about. And if you know anything about the case of Leo Frank, like the fact that he's describing the events that way and leaving out the part where

he was lynched, I think that speaks volumes on its own too. Yeah. So, you know, I, I, I remember, uh, like when I was in my really early twenties, like 20, 22, something like that, watching CLAB 2021, uh, which is one of, it like loved that show. And there's an episode that centered around all these conspiracy theories. And the joke was that the people controlling everything were the five Jew bankers, right? Yeah. And I thought that was funny because that seems so over the top and stupid to me. Right. Really? That's what you think. That's hilariously stupid. And now I know that that was tame. That was

fucking tame. Yep. Jesus. Wow. So we go on. Yeah, I know it's not great. There's a lot of bad stuff. Yeah. So Alex goes on to complain. I don't, I don't even know how to even tell you this and we are back live. Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Jones is our guest. I want to just remind listeners that without you, we will not be on air. We are the main focal point of the attack. Tim Cook was given an award last December by the ADL for quote, taking me off the internet. Now they've called for my urge. That's right. A pogrom against info wars. Really? Very, very sad. Very, very sad. On this fucking show. A powerful group

that we're standing firm, promoting American values, unity and justice, the things that Martin Luther King Jr. promoted. Fuck you. Judging people according to their character, their deeds. Uh, they call me a white supremacist. They call, uh, Stephen Miller, a white nationalist call for his firing. It really is defamation by these groups. I'm a Christian. I believe everybody can be saved by Christ. Uh, but, uh, I tell you, it's, it's, it's very, very dangerous. What's going on. Please don't forget we have the biggest sales of the year. This is our biggest sale ever. We keep topping the sales, but this

is as good as it'll ever get. That was weird. I just can't, I just can't do that. That's too, that's, that's a lot. But also lazy. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. On your, on your, I, here's what we've got a, an explicit anti semi who's saying that the Jewish media is controlling shit and they're trying to run a pogrom against us. And also we've got the biggest sales on right now. Fuck off. Fuck you. Yeah. It's a mess. That's insane. Yeah. Pretty bad. So also Tim Cook was given the courage against hate award by the ADL in 2018, but it's complete bullshit for Alex to claim that he got it because he's

silenced Alex. The reason cited for his receiving the award were that he matches his employees donations to charitable organizations. The fact that he responded to the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville head on with the employees at Apple in condemnation and that he's been a voice of support consistently for LGBTQ and immigrant rights. All the reasons that Tim Cook received this award are things that Alex stands against. That is fair enough. But Alex trying to turn this into some transactional thing where the ADL wanted Alex silenced and Tim Cook did it for them. So he gets an award. That's

childish bullshit. But it fits Alex's MO course. So you Michael goes on to complain a bit about how it's unfair. What's happened to him. And I don't agree. The problem is you can't object. So so they they attack me on one day last week. And then I go on another YouTube show and I say, look, the ADL just attacked me. This is not fair. I don't think they should have this power over who gets on the internet or not. So guess what happens that YouTube video gets gets pulled. Wait a minute. Can I object to what these people just did to me. I have no idea what he Michael Jones said recently to draw this rebuke. But

based on the sort of things he said in the past, I really don't think it was an undeserved rebuke. I think you should. I think this should be taken down. He's already started being a video. So he can claim all he wants that it's just this Jewish organization that's out to get him, but it's not. It's everyone except anti semites. In 2004, the Catholic League put out a statement saying quote the Catholic League condemns Jones's anti Semitism and repudiates his efforts to justify it in the name of Catholic theology. One thing is clear. There are many choice terms one can use to describe Jones's view of salvation

history. Catholic is not one of them. See, I just don't see any Catholic voices out here denouncing this kind of behavior. I don't see. Why is it that every time we have some kind of radical Islamic terrorists, all of Islam comes out and announces to everybody that we don't support this kind of behavior, but then a Catholic does it and I don't hear any voices. I'm not complaining about Catholics. So like I think the game is pretty simple with this sort of the sort of provocateur shit. Like you say something that's indefensible and bigoted and then some organization is like hey that's indefensible and bigoted and then

in order to defend yourself you have to say something worse free speech and that's because the Jews hate me. Oh God damn it right. That's the sort of game that's being played. Yeah, whatever if you need to really cut through the bullshit. I should probably tell you that in 2003 you Michael Jones put out a CD called watching MTV neo ethnic songs and dances which included a track called fear the Jews. This man is not interested in any sort of corruption in the ADL or not being able to respond or anything like that. He's a pure to his core anti semi and what Alex is doing here is selling him to his audience. It's

a disgusting display and I honestly generally you know would say I can't say I'm super surprised, but I am kind of surprised. Is that a is that a like parody version of don't fear the reaper. I didn't listen to it. You didn't do it. Are you sure he's not the greatest weird Al Yankevich of the white nationalist movement or nuts it again? I got to be specific. He's not white nationalist. I understand he's adopted by a lot of white nationalists. Certainly I get absolutely true, but he himself seems very he has a singular focus to him. Yes, gotcha. So

E Michael Jones starts speculating here about what's going on between the ADL and big tech like Facebook and all of them. And I don't think his theory makes sense. So I think I think what we're seeing is a pushback because they should have been insiders here in the tech world. There was a big grant they got in 2017 to team up with all the big players. And why are they saying now they're going to send them to jail? If you're on the inside, why are you doing this to the people you're working with? I think what we're seeing here is push back. I think that the people, the tech people are saying, wait a minute, we're

the ones who are taking the fall here for these guys. They get all the credit. They determine what hate speech is. They get to fight their enemies and we get to pay the bill. We're the ones who look bad because we're censoring people dancing to their tune. So I think that notice, notice, notice that Sasha Baron Cohen said nothing is enough. It doesn't matter what you do. You have to let us run everything. So if you listen to that clip, one thing that's very important to point out is the only evidence for you. Michael Jones's theory is his imagination. He's decided that it's the case that this is pushback

because he thinks that the tech companies are getting mad at the ADL for being so controlling and letting them look like the bad guys for censoring people. Jones is just assuming that because of his own feelings, nothing else. That clip is a clear instance of Jones pushing a sort of Jewish puppet master narrative, which is a hallmark of traditional antisemitism from the protocols on down to everything. Alex Jones says about George Soros, the notion that a shadowy group of elite Jewish people control things from behind the scenes. You're five Jewish bankers. Yeah, is one of the most

lingering characterizations that's used to incite people against Jews. It preys on resentment and unfulfilled desires, transforming what isn't going right in your life from being a product of circumstance into the result of Jewish meddling. That's a worldview that's being perpetuated by Jones on this show and it's being supported, seconded and sold by Alex. This is something I want to make crystal clear. E Michael Jones is an outright anti-Semite. Alex Jones may or may not have actual feelings about Jewish people, but as a worldview that's structurally built on antisemitism. That

is why these two can have this sort of a conversation where they see eye to eye so long as things don't get too blunt. So long as E Michael doesn't bring out his rhetoric about synagogue shooting victims deserving it, Alex can hear everything he's saying as being about the globalists. And because he can do that, he can allow his audience to do the same. Whether intentional or not, Alex is feeding his audience to this man. And no matter what the reality of the situation is, Alex has a responsibility not to do that. Situations like this are ones where Alex has the greatest responsibility,

because these are the situations where the most damage is possible to his audience. And Alex is failing spectacularly. This is like, to me, this is like a situation where, you know, like somebody who's older, who can't hear as well, wants to watch Downton Abbey, but they can't understand him. So they're like, we got to watch subtitles whenever we watch this British show. Just can't understand it the same way. Like on the broadcast of this, these guys need subtitles to explain what they're actually saying. Well, you know, I should look into people or I mean, you have to assume someone did. Right? I mean, you

can't. You can't assume no. You just did this interview blind. Yeah. No one at Infowars Googled. No one checked anything. Like you can't. I don't understand. Like I the facade is so difficult for me to hold up anymore. Yeah, like or not the facade, but that's the right way to put it. The sort of excuse of like I stupid. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really tough for me to look at an interview like this and think anything other than he knows exactly what he's doing. Yeah, I just don't I and I'm starting to lead in that direction pretty heavily. Well, it's like by the end of this, I think you

will too. No, no, I was already sure. It's like the the fucking climate dude that I talked about where it's like, you know who he is. If you book him on your show, you know what you're doing. That's what you're doing. Well, he's been he's been doing the anti-Semitism for how long? But if you Google him and I don't care if you I don't care if you've never heard of the guy and you Google him before he steps onto the fucking stage. Yeah, you have to Google him and the moment you do. You should. But the difference between that example and Alex is that like you're talking about Mark Moreno being booked on like

Fox News where there's like competent staff. Right. Right. Alex books the guy who makes meme videos, hitting stuff with hammers. Like he I could, you know, right the way he runs his show is so unprofessional and shitty that you could be led to believe he just doesn't give a shit right, but I don't believe that anymore. Google the guy with the hammer. Well, probably only to see what kind of social media reach he has. Exactly. And if you were just doing that about you, Michael Jones, you might be like, oh, this guy has a lot of fans. All right. I don't know, but that illusion is falling away from me. So in this next clip,

you know, he's talking about the ADL sending people to jail. Yeah, and I think this is his rationalization for it. I'll say it's not good. You can't have this type of basically tyrannical rule over the internet and then say, well, we're a private organization, even though you basically have the force of law, you can overturn laws. That's we've entered a new era of history where basically the oligarchs can, if they want to overturn your law, they bring in the shock troops and mainly the groups like the homosexual activists that overturn the law in the state of Indiana. They're doing the same

thing in Ireland and they're doing the same thing at Silicon Valley. So we're in a war. There's no news to you, but I mean, we're in a war. And these are one of the people who are the directors of that warfare against the people of the United States of America. And now the internet's gone from being millions of diverse sides to six having 96% control. We're now in a Panopticon prison being spied on with the leftist wardens in all our personal messages, all our data. We've invested all our promotion into their platforms. And now they're saying we have no speech and now they're coming after the few

platforms they don't control. This is a very dangerous combination of evil. Yeah. And that's why we have to stand up to it right now. So that clip is really important because I think it really illustrates, first of all, how on the same page these two dudes are in this interview. They're in agreement, but if you understand what they're saying, they're not or they're not supposed to be. Yeah, that's that's what I would say. They're not supposed to be in agreement because E Michael Jones believes it's the Jews right and Alex says that's not what he believes. It's the globalists right who are

definitely not the Jews because I'm not against the Jews. One of the things that becomes incredibly clear about this is how they're the same. The ideologies. Yeah, something we've talked about a ton in the past and I think it's on stark display in this interview. It's something that really troubles me. Yeah, I mean, I'm really troubled to find out that we're entering a new era where oligarchs can overturn laws that they don't like. Dan, right? That's a terrible thing. Right. And that's be awful. That's the other thing is like a lot of times when you're dealing with people like this, one of the one of

the strategies that they use is making valid criticisms and then perverting what the point they're making. Yeah, he was he's fine with his oligarchs controlling things and overturning the laws that he doesn't like, but he's not fine with people doing it. So in that last clip, Jones talked about Ireland and that and he talks a little bit more about this. And I think that this clip is maybe one of the closest things to funny in this episode because Alex keeps trying to butt in and he can't. And also this if Alex knew what E. Michael Jones believed this would have been a time to ask a follow up

question. This is this is super dangerous for everybody. This is war. This is pushing it into the streets. This is not going to go well. Yeah, I just did an article on Ireland. Ireland was conquered. It was conquered by a combination of multinational firms, tax exempt foundations and big tech like Google and Facebook. They didn't need an army. They just come in there. They got a beachhead because of low taxes. They invited all these firms in and then suddenly their firms are telling him you have to overturn the Constitution of Ireland. So the first thing they did with the

family, then they gave them homosexual marriage. And then the last referendum was on abortion. All of those rights were just taken out of the Irish Constitution. And then now it's like grown men hate speech. And now it's like grown men hate speech in Ireland. They're going to remove the freedom of speech that's in the Irish Constitution. This is the way war is waged in our day. Exactly. This is how war is waged. And the new sacrament is full grown men with our children. Alex really needed to get that. Wow, really had to get that one. It just

Whoa, you said homosexual and I really need you to recontextualize that into E. Michael. Have you heard my riffs about drag queen story time? Yeah, because I really like to do one right now. So I can't find the article that E. Michael is talking about here, but I did find an interview he did recently about Ireland with a noted far right provocateur named Rowan Croft. It's trash and seems to be circling around the idea that Jews are sending immigrants to Western countries to attack logos. He's got a he's got a focus to him. Yeah, the things that E. Michael is talking about happening in

Ireland are very specifically things that he has blamed the Jews for in the past. For instance, as it relates to homosexuality, he said that the Jews are responsible for promoting marriage equality in the United States many times. He then says that Ireland has passed laws providing access to abortion. In a video we posted to YouTube, Jones said of the United States, quote, if it weren't for Jews, we would not have abortion in this country. The examples he's using of what he thinks are evils that are befalling Ireland are curiously exactly the same things he blames the Jews for

having promoted in the United States. It's painfully obvious. What he's saying here is that the Jews have taken over Ireland. Alex is letting him because Alex can pass that off as E. Michael just saying that the blubblists are taking over Ireland. And he can agree with that. E. Michael Jones is not saying that he's saying that it's the Jews. And because Alex is allowing this and agreeing with it, it has the risk of mainstreaming E. Michael's shit to a large portion of his audience. Also, the Irish Constitution doesn't guarantee free speech. Until last year, it was illegal to publish blasphemous

content. And it's still an offense to publish content that's deemed to be seditious or indecent. They have a group called the censorship of publications board that reviews content referred to them as objectionable. They have a film censor's office. Ireland is a really bad history, bad country to choose if you want to talk about free speech being eroded. So they have a very long history of being a country that's pretty into censoring things. If you want to learn more about that, look into the troubles. Yeah, no, no, they were fine. Yeah, so that's not a great example, but it's really stark the way

that he's using the exact same examples that he talks about in the United States as being things that Jews have done. Yeah, and you can see the way that like he makes this paddle palatable by saying multinational corporations, this is special interest groups. The way you do that is that's the language of info wars. I just I I it should be against the law for them to be like see they're taking rights away when they're giving access to abortion, like when they're giving access to equal rights for I guess what he would quality and they're taking our rights away. Oh, I guess I guess his take on that is that

they're taking our rights to murder those people or allow us Catholics. Yeah, extremist Catholics to live in a country where there is no acceptance. Yeah, there is no abortion and I would say that's a minuscule right. Yeah, but Alex is just out of line out of line. But when the ADL says they're going to destroy you if you don't submit, we bend over. Well, I'm done bending over, ladies and gentlemen, I've tried to stay out of this. I'm trying to just unify Americans around freedom and justice. I don't care if you're old, young, black, white, Jewish, whatever. If you care about freedom and you believe in the

Bill of Rights Constitution and you like the free market and you're great. And then hopefully you don't want to kill babies. But our guest, E. Michael Jones was a university academic coming in professor and he got removed at a Catholic University because he was pro-life. That was decades ago. That's where this reign of tyranny is, ladies and gentlemen. That's where it is. And we need to get upset and motivated, but Americans are so used to, Oh, don't want me to say the n-word. Sure, I'm not saying n-word anyways. Then it's, Oh, don't say homosexual. That's a scientific name for it, like heterosexual. But okay, it hurts

your feelings. I won't do that. And then it's, don't say mother or father. Don't say they're two genders. Don't say America should exist. Don't say illegal alien. Do what we say, do what we say, do what we say. And our guest points out the shock troops aren't the gay lobby now, the homosexual lobby. It's the pedo lobby. And the last frontier, give us control of your children. Public schools in Texas say parents will have a right to know when men dress as women come, have their elementary students sit on their laps. That's in the news today. We're going to have time alone with your kids without you knowing. Same group took over the

Catholic church. Same groups taken over the Boy Scouts. It's a pedophile reign. Very important point. E. Michael Jones didn't say the shock troops were the pedo lobby. Nope. He specifically said the shock troops were homosexuals. Yep. Alex is rewriting comments Jones made earlier in the show to make Jones's comments more closely fit his worldview. He's not trying to find areas of disagreement to distance himself from Jones or clarify things. He's seeking to make him more compatible with the rhetoric that Alex puts out on his show, which is terrifying. Also, when he says it's the same group that took over the

Catholic church and that sort of thing, he should be aware of what E. Michael Jones thinks about that subject. I'm going to go with the Jews on this one. Bingo. Man, E. Michael Jones. It lives a very simple life, I suppose. Some of it's pretty predictable when you want to guess. If something is inconvenient to me in any way, guess who did it? Jews. Yep. Alex also largely in that clip seems to be conflating the ADL with literally every problem he has with modern culture. I don't think that the ADL has anything to do with people telling him that his language surrounding gender is offensive. No one is saying that he can't use the words

mother and father like he's talking about in that clip, but the imaginary people chastising for him for that have nothing to do with the ADL. Well, they did successfully change the name of Thanksgiving to whatever it is they think they did. If Alex wants to make some good faith complaints about the ADL, he's absolutely within his right to do so, but that's not what he's doing here. He's specifically talking about the ADL as being part of and maybe one of the most important parts of the large scale worldwide globalist conspiracy. He's not speaking in any specifics, but he's using just enough concrete terms that his point does get

across. He's tired of bending over to the ADL. They're trying to get control of language and then they're going to corrupt your kids in the schools. This is very much protocol shit as I'll read to you from protocol number one. There we go. Quote, their youth has grown stupid on classicism and from early immorality into which it has been inducted by our special agents by tutors, lackeys, governesses in the houses of the wealthy by clerks and others. Or we could go to protocol number nine. Quote, we have fooled, bemused and corrupted the youth of the Goiom by rearing them in principles and theories which are known to us to be

false, although it is by us that they have been inculcated. Or about protocol 17. Quote, we're re-educating youth in new traditional religions and afterwards in ours. Consider how often Alex talks about things like the state being a new religion that's being taught to your kids by the globalists. This is a conversation you absolutely cannot have. What he's trying to have about retired bending over to the ADL. You cannot have that conversation in good faith when your guest is E. Michael Jones. I have absolutely zero patience for this low rent normalizing of a vicious anti-semi and I have even less patience for Alex Jones right now. If he doesn't know what he's doing, he's the most oblivious person in the world.

And someone that oblivious having an audience is a risky thing. Also, E. Michael Jones claims that he was fired from St. Mary's College, a Catholic school for his positions on abortion. He said that and I don't believe him. This is a Catholic school in the late 70s, early 80s. That's going to be a pretty conservative place politically or it could be his stance on abortion is I think we should outlaw abortion and they were like great. That's wonderful. And if somebody gets an abortion, I think we should kill him and they were like back off. Yeah, I guess that's a way it could possibly be. Yeah. So Alex discusses how the war is here and nothing's good here. Nothing good. And so E. Michael Jones, you were explaining we're in a war.

The war is here and now it's the hate speech laws and now it's being introduced by the ADL and American soil. We're going to arrest anybody that doesn't do what we say. And if you point out that these groups are staging hate crimes against themselves, we're going to arrest you for that too. That's what's happening here. So please continue. So what Alex is talking about is more of his preemptive false flagging themselves rhetoric. I just think it's real bad. I just think this is real terrible. So but they're talking he's trying to ask E. Michael about like there's a war here. And in this clip, this next clip is where everything changes up till this point, it's been complaints about other things being presented as complaints about the ADL.

Very inaccurate and coded complaints about their gun. If they don't like your speech, they're going to arrest you. Kind of things that make it clear that your problem isn't with the ADL. It's a larger thing that you're focusing on because you've made a boogie man out of. So far we've been listening to two old assholes complain racistly right and it gets. I mean it's it continues to be that but this is this next clip is a hinge where things go off into a very crazy direction. And it mostly has to do with pornography. Yeah, I mean, you're right, it is a war. And in order to understand it, you have to take it back to the end of the Second World War. Germany is a conquered country. We have complete United States has complete control

over whatever goes on there. And the first plan is basically the Morgenthau plan. They're going to starve the Germans to death. And at that point, the adults in the room realize, well, we need Germany against the communists. Okay, so they introduced the Marshall plan. And this is the beginning of social engineering. Or this is warfare. This is psychological warfare. We call it social engineering. We are going to take complete control over the flow of information in Germany. With this means that any book, any newspaper, any play, any TV show, any movie has to get a license. It gets a license from a man by the name of David Mardekai Levy, who was a Jewish psychiatrist from New York City. He hands out the licenses and therefore

they determine the flow of information. At the same time this is happening, Germany is now flooded with pornography, flooded with material. As soon as the Verhungsreform took place, as soon as they got the currency reform, the pornography came in. Tons of it come in from Austria and the place is flooded with pornography. That might have just been a natural thing after Hitler. Uh, yeah, man, these dudes, you're never going to win against pornography. You're just never going to win. Yeah, I kind of don't really know what he's talking about, but I suspect that what he's like the basis of this, I think he's referring to the practice during the war that people engaged in of dropping pornographic materials in attempt to demoralize the enemy. I think that's

what he's talking about. That's the only thing that makes sense. The Axis powers dropped nudie picks conveying the message that fucking was way cooler than fighting against the Axis powers. I agree. The US tried to pretend that they didn't also engage in these sorts of psychological tactics, but they almost certainly did. I think largely what E. Michael Jones is complaining about here with the, you know, licenses for stuff going around. I think he's talking about denazification. Yeah, and he's spreading his propaganda about Jews introducing pornography into the world as an attack on the Catholic Church, because that is a position that he has. Yeah, he could have just stopped with the problem happened around the end of World War Two and then

finished because Germany lost and I've been like, yeah, you got it. The theory that Jews are behind the propagation of pornography is super popular among the close to neo-nazi areas of the online right wing. They believe that pornography itself is a Jewish conspiracy meant to make white men less interested in sex, basically as a long game towards white genocide. It's a very strangely commonly held belief in those corners of the internet, but basically it's just repackaged Nazi shit. Hitler believed that Jews are responsible for prostitution, which was preventing the perverting the Aryan race and spreading disease among it. He talks about it a little bit in Mein Kampf, quote, the moral devastation which this depravity brings with it are sufficient to

destroy a people slowly, but surely the Judaization of our spiritual life and Mamanization of our mating impulse sooner or later befouls our entire new generation. So I mean, it's all just kind of repackaged. You know what it was? Where do these guys get this book? It's fine. They get it from Mein Kampf. Yeah, man, this is, it's fine. So in the seventies, E. Michael Jones was in Germany teaching. Oh, no. And he has some ideas about, I guess, the evils of sexual liberation. I'm guessing he got kicked out because of his quote of views on pro pro life. Yeah. And over this period of time, you have a battle for the mind of the German people being seduced by sexual liberation. It gets more and more intense over this period of time until you reach the seventies

when it's the movies. This is when I was in Germany. I was a teacher at a gymnasium in Germany and the girls that are coming into class here are holding a magazine called Bravo, which is for for teens. There's an advice column by the man by the name of Dr. Sommer, whose real name is Martin Weinstein. And he's teaching the girls how to masturbate. I don't really care to hunt down this teen magazine from the seventies in Germany. The Jones is talking about here. I don't really trust him, so I'm going to let that go. The only, I only kept that clip in to illustrate how compatible Alex and E. Michael's worlds are. Alex spends a lot of time yelling about how Jocelyn Elders was trying to teach kids how

to masturbate, which is part of the globalist plot. And here you have a guy who Alex is refusing to realize is a gigantic anti-semite talking about a columnist teaching German youths how to masturbate as a means of corrupting them. And specifically pointing out that it has, he has a Jewish surname. Yeah. Yeah. E. Michael Jones is a fun house mirror of Alex Jones, except none of this is fun. So at this point, Alex invites E. Michael Jones back on the show and is not good. Dr. I want you to have the floor and I'll have you back again soon because you're right on about this. I want to explain to new viewers and new listeners or liberals that'll make a joke about this. We're not scared of women and we're not scared of sex. The point is this is a real

psychological warfare plan. George Arwell wrote about it in 1984 because he saw the plan as a top propagandist in, in, uh, OSS and then MI six. And then that was later declassified, declassified to totally break down society and in the family. And that's what he wrote about in 1984. So this early sexualization and all this is about people not developing the higher centers of their brains and having dreams. It's about, uh, destroying them while they're young, destroying their innocence so they don't have time to flower and fully develop. That's why they're now targeting in the U.S. And saying, we're going to teach your children how to masturbate at age five, sexualization of children, pedophilia, and you're not going to stop us. So it's again, a psychological warfare

plan developed. So, so, so break it down. Alex trails off weirdly there at the end developed. Why didn't he say who developed the plan? Is it possible that he knows who E. Michael Jones thinks developed the plan? He doesn't want to get into an argument about globalist versus Jew because I think that's a possibility. It's definitely there. A couple of things about 1984. First of all, it's not real. It's a book of fiction. Don't understand. In as much as it could be said that it's realistic or well himself is explained that the book is based on his imagination of a Stalin-like government based in totalitarianism being in place in a Western country instead of Russia. It wasn't that he came upon a secret globalist plan and he decided to get the warning

out to the masses through the book. I know that Alex likes to play that game, making references to the fact that Orwell died just after the book was released, but that's because he'd been dying from tuberculosis for years at that point. It's all bullshit. TB wasn't exactly like, oh, you'll be over it. Sure. You'll just be over it soon. In 1947, Orwell wrote a piece called Why I Write, which describes some of his formative experiences like dabbling and writing a stint in the Indian Imperial police, becoming impoverished and coming to a greater understanding of the working classes. He was undecided on a lot of issues, at least until 1936. Quote, The Spanish War and other events of 1936 and 37 turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I

stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written directly or indirectly against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism as I understand it. It seems to be nonsense in a period like our own to think that one can avoid writing of such subjects. Alex believes George Orwell was revealing some secret plan of the globalists because the text of 1984 is a dystopian imagining of a totalitarian government in Britain. This imagined government is very similar to the paranoid ravings of Alex's intellectual predecessors, the anti-communist cold war weirdos like anybody in the John Birch society or W. Cleon Scousen. Alex is unable to engage with 1984 because he thinks it's real. He is unable to detach it from the anti-communist propaganda

that he was raised on. So to him it reads like just another book from the John Birch society talking about what the globalists have planned. Yeah. Also, as I recall, pornography didn't play that big of a role in 1984 and the pearls were totally allowed to have it and fuck all they wanted. All that control stuff was just for the party members. Yeah, I was going to say like I'm trying to go through all the possible dystopic. I'm like, you know, Huxley they were they were all about sex, but then you have like the giver and it's like you're not allowed to have sex and all that stuff is rigidly controlled and it's like you're going to get a dystopia. It doesn't matter what flavor of fucking you're dealing with. It's when you're it's when the the state has

control over it that we wind up getting fucked over the. Yeah, that is it is not. Yeah, it's not like Oh, it's moral to have pornography or not have pornography. It's immoral for the state to control it. The larger point to about what Alex was saying there, but I'm saying you're right on about this. Yeah, realization issue is that E Michael Jones a hundred percent believes it's the Jews doing that they are responsible. Yeah, for the sexualization of culture in order to corrupt the minds of everyone. So when Alex says you're right on about this, he's tacitly or not even tacitly. He's explicitly supporting something that he maybe shouldn't. I I I thought I find it incredibly difficult to imagine that he just doesn't understand. This is too ridiculous. I

mean, it's it's it's either him signaling. Hey, this was always compatible from the very beginning or him signaling. I don't care anymore. And so I am willing to go as far as necessary. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to say if it's if it's any of these guys. It doesn't matter how hard core they are. I am willing to chase survival over anything else. And it's going to wind up killing him, of course. I don't know. I don't I can't make predictions. And anyway, Alex asks you, Michael Jones, what the end game is? I kind of suspect they have different answers. Oh, yeah. Probably similar, but different answers. And so this is a pedophile cult and it'll take anything over and people need to understand it. And so what about their end game? How do we counter

what this pedophile cult is doing? Because the ADL has also come out and said drag queen story time is a must. If you don't let big fat men dressed like clowns have access to your children unannounced bags under the eyes. Cross feed cut off by the break there couldn't finish his thought. But you also see this tendency that he has that he keeps trying to bring back the his drag queen story time narratives. Because I think it feels safe to him. I think that he recognizes on some level that like I need this ball to be in my court. And if I don't somehow control where this is going, it could get out of hand really quickly, right? You and I can both explicitly agree. Pedophilia is bad. So we are going to explicitly talk about pedophilia.

But if you start going on to how homosexuals are destroying everybody, I'm not there yet, man, or if you go on to say how the Jews are controlling everything, I'm not allowed to do that. But it will get there very quick, no matter what topic you talk about. You got this guy in less. Yeah, I'm waiting for him to just answer everything with, yeah, you know, all Jews are pedophiles and you're like fucking great. So in this next clip, it's the closest that I can really find of E. Michael, like sort of proving that pornography is a weapon. There's a lot. There's a lot of pornography talk. What's at the bottom of the rat hole? Where is all this going? Dr. Jones. Yeah, you're right. It's a weapon. Pornography is a weapon. And this

became clear when the Israelis invaded Ramallah in 2002. They come into town. They take over the TV stations and they start broadcasting pornography. Now, wait a minute. I thought pornography was freedom. I thought it meant freedom. So does this mean the Israelis want to bring freedom to the Palestinians? No, this proves that it's a weapon, okay? That it subjugates the people. It's supposed to derail them. It's supposed to derange them. And it's also supposed to block any type of rational response to what's going on. A couple of things here. First, it's amazing to me how Alex is just letting E. Michael Jones just keep on barreling through with every single example he says about anything negative surrounding all of the issues they're discussing coming back to the

Jews. Every example of individuals he's brought up are Jewish people. And now the proof that he's giving of the claim that pornography is a weapon is Israel airing porn when they took over Ramallah. Alex legitimately has to be the most oblivious person in the world or else he knows he's talking to a gigantic anti-Semite and he doesn't care. Yeah. Now, about that case of the Israeli porn broadcasting in 2002, I'm obviously opposed to that. But I think my reasoning is a little different from Jones's. Here are the relevant reasons that broadcasting porn is bad, but porn itself is not. One, the Israelis specifically did this because it was offensive to the residents of the West Bank. Boom. I believe that motivation is an important factor in this equation. Here's what I mean.

I don't think pornography is intrinsically bad, but I do think it would be an immoral act to hijack Jim Baker's compound cable network and air pornography for all the sunny side residents. One part of it is because you have a reasonable cultural assumption that what you're doing would not be appreciated. But the other part is that it's never appropriate to force pornography on somebody that doesn't make the pornography itself bad. It makes the act of hijacking stations that would otherwise be playing family safe programming to air pornography wrong. I'm not an expert on this matter and it's hard to trace down concrete facts on the subject. So I'm going to leave some of the questions here alone about that specific. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly because they're

not really relevant to the matter at hand. This incident is not proof that pornography is a weapon. It's proof that it can be used in ways that are meant to cause discomfort and disturbance. This is not the same thing. For instance, heavy metal music has been used as a tool of torture. I was about to just bring that up. Exactly. Yeah. That does not make heavy metal music torture intrinsically. It's the way that it's being used that is the problem. Yep. And I don't believe that this guy isn't smart enough to understand that. It's a it's willfully obtuseness. That's all. Yeah. This is this is wild. Right. This is I just because it's so insane. It's so unhinged and disconnected from any and all reality. Like when you're this

singularly focused on all Jews are evil, then you by by very nature just exist in your own world. You exist completely separate from the rest of humanity. It's it's it's bonkers to me. It's it's bonkers. It's pretty bad. It's I told you I don't want to do this episode. I hate him. Yeah. I really don't like him Dan. So they talked some more about this porno issue is why not and you Michael Jones starts talking about no nut November. Of course he does. But of course he does. Of course he does. Why are we doing this? Of course. Of course, because it because so he's framing this as a boycott of pornography. And then he says that people got mad about that boycott and there's an article in Rolling Stone. It's all a load of bullshit. Pornography ruins

started to work against it. It ruins sexuality. It ruins the real thing. Absolutely. Absolutely. So they said, Well, we're going to take back. We're going to take back our own minds. We're going to take back our own bodies. We're going to take control of our lives, rational moral control of our lives. And they organized this boycott. Well, guess what? The pornographers are upset. The people who instituted this regime are upset. And there was an actually an article in Rolling Stone in which the author says that these people are antisemites. If you don't masturbate, if you boycott pornography, you're an antisemite. I didn't make this up. Okay, this is in that Rolling Stone article. So what you're seeing here in general is the oligarchs losing control of the narrative.

One of the most powerful, subjugating narratives of our time was pornography. It made an entire generation docile to the commands of their rulers. And now people are waking up to understand that sexual liberation is a form of control and they don't like it. And they're breaking up their own chains and escaping from the jail that the culture has created for them. And it's beautiful because people realize that they're getting outside again. They're getting away from their phones. They're realizing all of this is meant to give you fake satisfaction so you don't go out and form real relationships and people are finding it's the real relationships. It's the real world that are actually going to form that. Just imagine Alex fucking gardening. Wow.

So that article in Rolling Stone is not about calling anyone who decides to not partake in porn or specifically does no nut November. They're not saying they're an antisemite. But Dan, he said you can't make it up. Yeah, that is exactly the sort of straw man version of the story. You'd expect a raging antisemite who believes the pornography is a secret Jewish plot. That's the straw man they would create out of this story to attack. It does make sense to be clear. The article literally says quote. Of course, it goes without saying that not everyone who participates in no nut November or no FAP is a white supremacist or religious fundamentalist. So I guess it's the opposite. Thanks, man. This article is basically about how there's a weird

overlap between enforced non masturbating and right wing groups. For instance, the proud boys make you not masturbate if you want to join. Most of the article is about a meme that had been going around and it sort of dances around whether or not there's a bigger meaning to the meme. And honestly, the article itself seems undecided on the issue. I don't really feel like it has any concrete conclusion about it. The article doesn't say that people who abstain from porn or antisemitic, though it does accurately point out that people like David Duke believe that pornography is a secret Jewish attack plot and talks about how there are some people in the porn industry who have received a no nut November related harassment that was also deeply antisemitic.

That doesn't mean that the entirety of the the mission, I guess, is rooted in antisemitism, just that there's an overlap. The contents of this article are not things that Jones wants, particularly to be looked at realistically. He would prefer that the uninitiated not know that he does think that the Jews created pornography as a weapon because that makes him look like what he is. Instead of dealing with the article as it exists, he creates a fake version to discuss. They said, if you don't want to look at porn, you're antisemitic. And just like that, he diffuses the rightful accusations of his own antisemitism and dodges the question brought up by the article. It's literally the exact strategy you see Alex employ constantly. When news breaks in 2013 that

one of the Boston bombers was a fan of his site, instead of seeing that and questioning what that means, he pretends that people are saying that he inspired the bombing, thereby creating his straw man. They said I caused the bombing. That's so much easier to defend yourself against than it seems weird that this guy who is obsessed with the protocols of Zion was really into your show. What does that mean? Yeah, it's important to understand this tactic, but it's also important to understand the fundamental reason it's employed. Whenever there are straw man, wherever you find them, there's also something underneath that people don't want to talk about. And Dan will be there. Lifting up that straw man over his head and tossing it aside. I will not fuck you. Michael Jones.

Also, when he Michael Jones says that pornography quote made a generation docile to the command of their rulers, it should be pointed out that he literally means the Jews. Yeah, he's been very explicit about this in the past saying quote. If you turn away from the Catholic Church, you will end up a slave, a slave to the Jews, either through their pornography or their usury. Alex is just agreeing with an explicit antisemite who is toning down his language just enough to not sound off any alarm bells, but he's still being very overt. I don't believe for a second Alex doesn't understand what's not on. This is this is exactly what it is and in this next clip. I think we pass the line of any real acceptable O O O in this next clip. I

feel like plausible deniability could be dubiously maintained. I don't see it not in my court of law. Sure. Your court of law is a little biased. It's a little biased, but I don't think it's wrong. But I think here we really cross the Rubicon. Explain to people, Hitler wanted sexual liberation and they use porn and stuff as well and wanted men to have a whole bunch of relationships. Why is that? Why the fascist wanted as well? One of the books that Hitler burned were the books of Magnus Hirschfeld. Magnus Hirschfeld was the head of it. He was a Jew who was the head of the Institute for Sex while this and shaft. I wonder why he burned it. But if he didn't exist, Hitler would have to create him. This was the type of abuse in Germany, a conquered

country after World War One. Suddenly these people are let loose. People like Magnus Hirschfeld are let loose and suddenly the people are resentful. They don't want the corruption of their morals and they turn to somebody like Hitler because he said he would straighten them out. Now this could have happened. Could have been stopped earlier. Holy shit. If you listen to that clip, you have two men contradicting each other. Alex is saying that Hitler wanted sexual liberation because he's operating from a place where he's supposed to be attacking sexual liberation as a means of bringing social degeneracy, but also still thinks Hitler is bad. So Hitler must have been for sexual liberation, which is a hundred percent not true. Right? Conversely,

I'm not convinced. E. Michael Jones thinks Hitler was bad. I'm pretty sure he does not. If Alex thinks that the Libans born programs at the Nazis Institute account as sexual liberation, I guess that says something about him because they did encourage out of wedlock births, but that was specifically about creating more racially pure children. Well, there was that. Yes, there was a little bit of an ad. It wasn't like sexual liberation. You should be free to control your own body. It was more like sexual liberation. You should be making more white people. So that's not quite the same thing. The things you generally might associate with the types of sexual liberation Alex is talking about were things that were brutally repressed by Hitler's

government. Tens of thousands of gay men and lesbians were imprisoned. Many of them sent to camps, some being subjected to experimentation to change your sexuality. The Nazis shut down clubs, banned gay publications and overall had an attitude that the Jews were to blame for these cultural perversions like gay people existing. And as we all know, they were on the right side of history there, which is why America kept up the practice until, I don't know, a couple weeks back. Conversely, prior to Hitler's rise to power, the Weimar Republic had a very sexually liberated reputation. There's a budding sexual reform movement where access to birth control and recognition of different sexualities and gender identities were taking hold. They even passed

a law in 1927 that made it so doctors would have to treat sex workers who came in with venereal diseases without judgment in an attempt to treat the actual issue of health as opposed to the fake one, which is marginalizing sex work. Naturally, they were all murdered. A large part of the scene in Berlin was thanks to the work of Magnus Hirschfeld, the very person E. Michael Jones just maligned. Listen to the language that that dude is using. Quote, if Magnus Hirschfeld didn't exist, Hitler would have to create him. That's meant to say that this guy's actions, Magnus Hirschfeld's actions, justify Hitler's actions. So so well that if he wasn't there, you'd expect Hitler to come up with a fake version of him just to justify his actions, which did include a Holocaust in case you forgot.

Okay, I do. Now I remember that one. You know, I've read so many books on World War II. I often forget the Holocaust part and whether or not that was good or bad. Magnus Hirschfeld was a pioneering researcher, a researcher into the recognition of gay, bisexual and trans men and women, topics that were not being well handled at that point in history. He was putting out work exploring the idea that sexualities exist within a wide range of intermediaries. It's really hard to stress how far ahead of his time he was. There's a lot of work being done regarding the acceptance of people who exist outside rigid views of identity or sexuality or gender to the point where there were movies about gay characters being played in theaters at that time that weren't like look at that

weirdo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Months after Hitler became Reich Chancellor, he ordered Hirschfeld's Institute to be raided and the library was burned in a public spectacle. The crackdowns came swiftly and Hitler used sexual degeneracy like what Hirschfeld was doing as an attack on the Jews. Not to put too fine a point on this, but it's very similar to the function of E. Michael Jones's rhetoric. Yeah. Then what he says is quote people, these people like Magnus Hirschfeld are let loose and suddenly the people are resentful. They don't want the corruption of their morals. When Jones says that, that's to say that there was a bigger plan behind the scenes that Hirschfeld was just carrying out. Hard to not hear that as him basically saying that the

Jews were corrupting German society through promoting sexual deviancy, which is exactly what Hitler said. Right. A lot of overlap there. Yeah. And the people weren't resentful of the sexual liberation until it was used as a scapegoat for the country's other problems. Like what? Jones saying that there was a backlash against someone like Hirschfeld that you're trying to say that that was the people's will and Hitler was just carrying out the people's will is very troubling. Yeah. That's that's it's one of those things where I it almost like this bullshit almost convinces me towards the incremental change argument because anytime you see people ahead of history, you see them get fucking murdered right almost immediately. Well, Hirschfeld, you know

to right right exactly where he went. He was out of the country right shit went down regardless of whether he was physically murdered. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's just like these these fucking lunatics cannot hang. It just cannot hang with their with a lack of complete and total control. It's over other people's lives. It's real scary and to see just these echoes is just I can't even handle it. And this is this is fucked up. So at the end of that last clip, he said this could have been taken care of much sooner. That alone is a really fucked up idea and he goes on to talk a little bit more about that in this next clip and this is the point where if I were Alex, I mean if I were Alex, I'd be behaving in so many different ways. Right. Right. Right. But this is the point where it's

Alex. He wouldn't even be here talking to him in the first place. No, no, not at all. But if I were somehow accidentally in this situation and I'd been obliviously Mr. Magooing my way through this conversation up to this course, thinking an anti-semite is actually a coat rack naturally or vice versa. Yeah. Yeah. This is the point where I would be like get the fuck off my show. This is the point where it's just like I can't believe I fell for this. Now this this this could have happened. It could have been stopped earlier. The uncle of Pope Benedict, the great uncle of Pope Benedict, wrote a book called The What? The Judicist of Amtsleben, Georg Rotsinger, and he said if the church doesn't step in and defend the people by enforcing the laws that

protect the moral order, the German people are going to look for a leader. Well, guess what the German word for leader is? It's Führer and they found it. They found their leader. This is the type of reaction we want to prevent here in America. And the way we prevent this is by open dialogue and able to where we're able to to criticize the people who have subjected this to this reign of pornographic terror. Well, Dr. Jones, it's going to get worse with the left and their final hunger across the board is children. I don't give a fuck about Jones's bullshit op-ed from Pope Benedict's uncle or whatever the fuck he's talking about. I don't give a shit because this argument boils down to something along the lines of gay people were

walking around in public. So what do you expect to happen? Of course a genocide is going to happen. Yep. That's why you got to let the church come in and force you out of the public for your own good. Every time you guys try and be yourselves, we murder you. Why are you trying to be yourselves? Right. When you Michael Jones says that a Hitler coming to power is the sort of result he wants to avoid in America. That is still a threat. He's not making it clear on the show. But when he talks about quote people who have subjected us to this reign of pornographic terror, he's talking about the Jews. So I guess what he's saying is that he doesn't want another Holocaust, but it will happen if what he's proposing doesn't happen, which raises the question.

What does he want to happen? Well, if I understand so far his general vibe demeanor and actual meaning of his words, I would say his basic point is in order to stop another Hitler for rising, we're going to need another Hitler. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure I have a full answer to the question of what he wants to happen. But clues, maybe a decent clue comes from that speech he gave in 2007 that even V Dare thought was offensive. Quote, the revolutionary Jew is our enemy because he has rejected logos. That means that Jews to the extent that they accept honor and revere logos are not our enemies. They are Jews who accept logos fully by sincerely accepting baptism. And there are Jews who accepted in some lesser capacity by their docility to the truth.

That statement seems to indicate that if all Jews convert to Christianity, specifically the extremist Catholicism that Jones is into, or accept that Christians are right and stay in a docile state, then things will be cool. This seems like it would be Jones's version of what needs to happen in order to avoid another Hitler situation, which is so fucked up. Alex is just going along with a guy who was more or less saying that Jews all need to convert or submit. What happens if they don't convert or submit Dan? Well, I mean boy, I think we know the answer to that. Don't we? Well, we certainly do from his comments about like synagogue to the tree of life synagogue shooting. He's like, well, you guys you didn't convert or submit. So

this is just unacceptable on every level. And I've listened to info wars every day for the past three years of my life. I can't even put into words how disappointing it is to hear this guy saying that things that essentially boiled down to Hitler did what he had to do. And Alex's responses isn't to push back or end the interview. It's to escalate things to being about how they want your kids in the world. Alex is pushing the globalists are the ones who want your kids, but Jones E. Michael Jones wasn't talking about the globalists. He's talking about the Jews. It's kind of easy to see how Alex would make that mistake though, when your whole world view is based on anti Semitic shit. It's hard not to accidentally agree with and get along with an

anti Semite. Yeah. Honestly, Alex pivoting to talking about them wanting your kids and then going off into a little bit of a rant about a drag queen story time feels more like panic on his part than anything else. It's almost like muscle memory. He has nowhere to go with this conversation and this dude is pretty much applauding Hitler. He's too much of a coward to ask this guy. Hey man, do you believe the Jews enemy of humanity? Yeah, so you just retreats into something he knows feels comfortable like lying about drag queen story time like this is just pathetic and lying about history. It's just pathetic. I find it impossible to give him the benefit of the doubt any further. No, this the doubt has been removed

and when you have that like moment, particularly when you have this guy saying that there was this sexual liberation that the Jews like Magnus Hirschfeld were responsible for carrying out. They were let loose in Germany and they, you know, what are you going to do? Of course, Hitler is going to come along and take care of business. Like when you have someone saying things like that, after all of the other stuff he said on the show, you have no excuse to not know the type of person you're talking to and like how this like you need, you know your responsibilities in this circumstance and the only reason to fail in carrying out those responsibilities, which is to either push back or end the conversation is that you support it. Yep. And I know that

my feeling on it is Alex retreating back to the drag queen story time stuff is kind of a like, I don't know what to do here, but it would be delusional to think that his discomfort is in some way like I want to end this interview because it goes on to say this. I'm intrigued here and I want to get you back on. We've got to go to break over to five more minutes with Dr. E. Michael Jones, culturewars.com. Very interesting. I want to do five more minutes with him about the election, about Trump, where he sees all this going and I want to invite him back up in the near future. I'm glad Lizard recommended this fella. I've been so busy. I didn't really put two together, but I actually read one of his books years ago. We'll tell you about his upcoming book as well.

Please remember, without you, we're being shut down. Alex better be real careful with which books of Jones as he plugs on the air. You could plug something with an innocuous title or you might accidentally plug his most recent book, The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit. I was about to make a joke that his most recent book would be too obviously anti-Jewish. And then you just said that. So cool. I've seen some comparisons to an unfavorable review comparing it to the protocols. How's his addiction though? Is he pretty good? No idea. Okay. Or you might accidentally plug Shylock's use and Rams or you might accidentally plug the Jews and moral subversion. What I'm saying is this guy's bibliography is a minefield. If you're trying to carry the illusion that he

doesn't believe exactly what he believes. Yeah. So this is weird. Alex goes to break and he comes back and he's, I don't know what he's doing here, man. The globalist great error is to believe that as they collapse humanity, they end up on top. The truth is humanity is coming down fast. But we're miles above them on our journey to hell. You're listening to the Alex Jones show. That's really weird. Are we rebranding this as a show that's about the journey to hell? I didn't know that was what we were doing. I did not know that. See now actually this kind of retroactively makes perfect sense to me. If he's just embracing with the we're on the journey to hell or did he just quickly? Maybe he was that on the very beginning of the show or is that the

first time you heard that? What do you mean that that little we're way above them on the journey to hell part? That's what do you ask? I mean, have you heard that before? Not not not the same way. I have heard him like riff over the helter skelter music about how like we're coming down right or miles above you to imply that when we land we're on top of the globalist. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I've never heard it articulated as we're on a journey to hell. Maybe he just maybe he just was like. Oh, I got it now. I got it. I'm just going where we're all doing this. I'm on my own personal journey to hell and I'm getting there quick. I'm not positive. There's any meaning to it. I just thought it was fucking. Oh, yeah. I think he knows he's on his

way to hell, Dan. So in this next clip, we see them come back and talk and I think that this is a good illustration that Alex is still trying to pretend that they're talking about the same thing. The left is not invincible. They're carrying out from my experience. They're satanic compulsions. They try to codify that into a political plan. But as you said, all they ever do is summon their own destruction, though that's summon destruction normally wrecked civilization as well. So I can see what you're saying that the wrath of God like giant thunderheads rolling in in a typhoon towards the shore isn't long from colliding into civilization. Alex is really keeping up this facade that he thinks E. Michael Jones isn't talking about the Jews. Yeah, it's fascinating.

Alex is pretending that Jones said that the left summons its own destruction. And unless he said that off air in the commercial break, that's not something he said about the left. What he did say is that the sexual liberation in Weimar Germany summoned Hitler, which was the Jews fault for promoting sexual liberation. This is absolutely not the same thing. And this is the second instance of Alex taking something he said and repackaging it in info wars sort of language when the the shock troops or the gaze the homosexuals they put out on the street, Alex turning that into it's the petal lobby. Yeah, then he does this here with you know the Jews summoned their own destruction in the form of Hitler because of their sexual deviancy or

whatever. Now Alex is taking it the left summons their own. Yeah, it's weird. He does Jones does this a lot. E Michael Jones saying that the Jews summoned their own destruction. He's blamed the Jews for the Holocaust and the pogroms before I would assume that he's he talks about this a lot particularly after Jewish people are targeted for attacks. I mentioned on our last episode that after the Tree of Life synagogue shooting he said quote you have undermined the moral order and now don't be surprised if people start acting out their aggression towards you, which I guess is kind of his answer to what happens if people don't submit or convert. Yeah, he has a long history of blaming the Jews for things that people do to them and he justifies

it by saying that you know they should just convert it to Christianity and accept this whole logo's idea. Sure, would have saved everything. This is this is I think because we've talked about the him on the day of the ISIS up his dirty asshole and more recently is drudges changing things that like there is an arc for him to to take back away from where he is headed and I don't think there is any more. This is a like even if he tries this fucking episode should be a stone around his neck. He has no arc back. This is this is an anchor. This is done. Yeah, and anything anytime if he tries to pivot back towards anything that's even remotely positive. I don't give a fuck and he has every reason to know like I'm I've been talking about like

just the very public stuff that he Michael Jones has said and yeah all that and but even beyond that Alex has every reason to know about him because Alex used to employ Owen Benjamin before he got into these Michael Jones ideas and went down this road. Yeah, Alex knows because he doesn't have an employee he used to and they've had a public feud about the the idea that Alex doesn't get into the Jewish stuff. So Alex has every reason to understand that this man who he's now talking to is an inspirational figure for a lost quote unquote friend of his yeah he has really no excuse and as I'm finishing up this interview I couldn't help but be struck by a few things because we're pretty much done with the interview now. The first thing I'm struck with

is a very clear. E Michael Jones was throughout this interview what he believes a lot of it was just nonspecific enough to fly under the radar but he was pretty overt particularly when he started ranting about how Hitler was the leader Germany needed to set the people right from you know the perverting the country. Yeah I would it would be very difficult to hear him say the things that he said and not ask a clarifying question. You'd almost have to make yourself not do it because you already know the answer and you'd rather keep that from the audience. The second thing I'm struck by is how Alex seems to be going out of his way to repackage the things Jones is saying and put it into the language of info wars. Jones is consistently talking about the Jews and how they're up to no

good but Alex pretends that's not what he's saying. Jones says that the perversions that the Jews engaged in in pre-war Germany summon their destruction and as we said Alex will say like you said the left always summons its own destruction. I was really wrestling with these thoughts and to get a better handle on things I wanted to see what some of the internet response to this interview was in communities that maybe don't believe the same things that I do. I came across a site called Occidental Descent which had some comments about the interview. I don't have much interest in reading much from the site itself since their recommended blog links include David Duke's website Stormfront and American Renaissance so that kind of gives you an idea what the editorial

line was here. The author of this piece says quote I'm watching this and E. Michael Jones is dropping tons of red pills. Alex Jones is sugarcoating and delivering them to his audience. It's hilarious. That's exactly how I just yeah I mean that guy at least somebody's got some pretty good analysis of what's going on. Yeah that's exactly how I would describe this and the ability for me to convince myself that it's not in some way intentional is quickly leaving my body. I have a habit of generally blaming so much of Alex's behavior on him being dumb and not having anything but toxic information streams or he curates headlines from but I don't think I can accept that as an explanation for what I've seen here. Prior to the booking Alex or anyone at InfoWars

had every opportunity to know exactly who Michael E. Michael Jones was and during the show there are tons of red alert sirens that should have been going off but none of it phased Alex and he's charmed. Yep and I'm just so disappointed. I cannot wait for him to get sued into oblivion. For the majority of the time that we've been doing this podcast because it took a little while to figure out the lay of the land I've held a firm position that when you get past the bullshit headlines Alex found on Drudge or Fourchan when you push aside the science fiction books and movies that Alex thinks are real the bedrock of InfoWars content is historical anti-Semitism being repurposed and renaming the villains the globalists while retaining a lot of

the major themes. We've talked a lot about this with the heavy overlap with the protocols and how Alex's conceptions mirror the histories of the blood libel and well poisoning narratives. I've long believed that one of the more dangerous aspects of Alex's content and the worldview he disseminates is that it prepares his audience for harder core things. Because Alex has built a worldview that's so thematically reliant on historical anti-Semitism but he's insistent that he's not he allows his audience to internalize these themes without realizing where they come from. When he does so they're likely to see the same things being echoed in the rhetoric of people like Michael E. Jones who unlike Alex does not deny that he thinks the Jews are the problem.

And they're at a far greater risk of being hooked by them. Oh man I was a huge fan of Alex for the longest time but then I saw he I saw a couple videos and I realized he's not it's not the globalists man the globalists are the globalists are what they are it's the Jews who are doing it the Jews are behind the global the Jews are the globalists to the globalists to us. Or you'll hear Alex have an interview with E. Michael Jones where they agree pretty much across the board. Maybe you'll start looking at some more of Jones E. Michael Jones's content and you'll start to see like oh my god this guy believes the Jews are behind everything. Maybe you'll look at some message boards and some comments of people saying that Alex Jones is just too afraid to say this

and you'll be like when he did have this guy who believes that the Jews are behind everything they agreed on everything. Alex was really thrilled to it is something that because because the worlds are so identical you have a greater responsibility to protect your audience from people like this guy. Yeah you have like you have I mean instead of actively courting his audience while funneling yours to him because he Alex is never going to come out ahead in that equation. Nope Alex isn't going to sway E. Michael Jones's audience over to info wars. No you don't go back from anti-Semitism to just regular globalism. The only way you do that is if you become more like E. Michael Jones the radicalization pipeline in this case does not

flow the other direction. The only possibility is introducing normalizing mainstreaming his ideas to your audience. Oh local colloquialism shit flows downstream Dan. Sure and now the other the other piece about it is that's really disappointing is like you can just see very clearly how the the delusion of Alex's sort of ideas that he his worldview isn't based on anti-Semitism just collapse. Yeah it's now it's explicitly. Well I mean I still think Alex will have the same rebuttals and the same he can he can fall back behind the same defenses but I just I think booking E. Michael Jones is an editorial decision and I think that's enough to signal that it's explicit. I think booking E. Michael Jones and then agreeing with him all the time

while at the same time trying to cover for him is the most explicit. Yeah so I'm out. Yeah I'm out on his I'm out on any kind of cover now. This is this is an explicitly white nationalist anti-Semite monster. That is who Alex Jones is at the same time up until now. I don't think that he's used his platform in as explicitly dangerous way. I agree because like like the critique would be while he had David Duke on and I understand that and he looked real bad when he had David Duke on but the intent behind it was very different. At least the pretense of we're going to talk about our disagreements. Yeah. I'm going to point out that he shouldn't blame black people in the Jews for all of this. Yeah. That is a completely structurally different thing than having this guy

on and covering for him to just shoot your shit apparently water making his beliefs more close to yours. Yeah. If he says something that is a hot word that you don't want you would rather he said globalist switch it to pedophiles do something like that added it into one of your other narratives don't allow him to be explicitly anti-Semitic because you know that's what he is and you know what you are. Yeah. It's done. I mean I can't even begin to assume what the motivation is but at this point the list of possibilities are very bad. Yeah. So here's how Alex ends the show. I hate the Jews. All right folks. Well that was a very informative interview. Paul Joseph Watson is coming up. Recommend more host. You'd like us to have on

at showtipsandinfowords.com. That's not good. This was not an informative interview. Wow. I don't know. Is Gerbil still available for an interview? Maybe. So we come to the end of this and like I said I didn't want to do this episode. I hate that this is the direction things have gone. Yeah. Although I will say that I was not unprepared for this to be the case. No. It's still you hate I know that it's become that meme. You hate to see it. Yeah. I do hate to see this. I really I I guess I just haven't had every bit of hope burnt out of me by cynicism but I was really hoping that with the drudge turn and Alex's turn away from Trump I was thinking maybe he maybe he'll just point it back a little bit away from from this and he leaned in. He leaned in. I think we

always kind of had in the back of our head that that was probably that was the most likely outcome and who knows. I mean it could be a blip like it could just be a single blip. Maybe they could be a blip but this is an anchor. Well yeah. I agree with you and like unless he apologizes then this I mean I would I would allow that. Yeah. I would allow like if he made a public apology I would say all right. I'll go ahead and well. I mean it would have to be a pretty in depth public apology. It would have to be a fucking it. It would have to be a book. I would need a fucking creative nonfiction book about his apology. Yeah. And how they said it would have to be between the world and me. That's what

we're talking about in terms of fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know but like I said it could be a blip in the radar or whatever like it could. Alex keeps inviting him back. Maybe that next interview will never happen. Yeah. And maybe this isn't necessarily indicative of a trend down this road but considered with the larger picture of a lot of the people he's been having on. You get the sense that I think he knows it. I think he knows that he's on a journey to hell and he's trying to take the rest of his with him. That is your theory. That's my theory. We will see that's my theory. Anyway, we'll be back. But until then we have a website. We do have a website. It's knowledge fight dot com and we have a Twitter. We do have Twitter. It's at knowledge underscore

fight. Go to bed Jordan. It's on Facebook. We're on Facebook. You can download the show on iTunes or other podcast apps. Leave a review. Do the whole thing. You know the deal. Sure. Yeah. We'll be back. But until then I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I am the juiciest ice cube. Andy and Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.