Knowledge Fight - #434: Bill Cooper Covers OKC Part 1

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

Today, to supplement their coverage of Alex Jones, Dan and Jordan begin an exploration of how things played out on Bill Cooper's radio show The Hour of the Time on the days immediately following the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma City. This installment covers the day of the bombing, April 19, 1995, as well as April 20-21.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge I didn't enjoy knowledge fight need money Andi and tanzas and you stop it andi and tanzas andi and tanzas you're on the earth thanks for holding so Alex and mr simculan i'm a huge fan i love your word knowledge fight no no no knowledge fight dot com i love you hey everybody welcome back to knowledge fight i'm dan i'm jordan we're a couple dudes

like to sit around drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about alex jones indeed we are dan jordan jordan quick question what's your bright spot for today well interestingly i found a cheap copy of the uh i i really like assassins creed games sure yeah like assassins creed odyssey was fantastic i loved uh some of the other ones i played but i was a nintendo guy died in the wolf through pretty much most of my life and so i never had the capability to play a lot of the early ones that weren't on nintendo systems right right right so in like i had the game cube no it wasn't the game cube like the we you maybe okay okay you know they had three and um the black flag they had those two on that came out on nintendo systems i got reported so you've never played my boy etio

out of toroid no but i found a cheap copy of the etio collection love it and so that's got uh assassins creed two and then two other ones three games brotherhood as well as yeah oh man i've played those 300 million times and so i decided like i you know i like this style of game but i've tried to do other ones that just are too linear like the one in england it found a way too linear i couldn't stand oh man the grappling hook is my jam i might give it another try eventually but i i started playing this one the assassins creed two started with that because i'm going to go through all of them apparently oh yeah i'm blown away by how fun it is how good it is given and like given how old yeah yeah i remember watching my roommate swear engine play this back

when i lived in missouri and i'm not sure it was new at that point it's just it's really uplifting i guess to like find this like really reasonably priced game in a series that i like but i wasn't sure i was going to enjoy and then it turns out it's just super fun and you can run around in this italian city it's amazing yeah i mean i'm blown away because that's the those three are the only reason that i played any of the other assassins creed games so you missed out on the three best games well i like the american one even though most people say that one was of course of course i understand but i know why you like it yeah i like i like the homesteading aspect is why i love the villa yeah you're gonna all the oh it gets so much better you're gonna get to

recruit other assassins gonna be amazing that's all i care about it's incredible what about you what do you got i i i i i i i have been filled with a lot of pent up frustration yeah recently because the world sucks maybe some denial a lot of denial oh for sure about you i don't know what your bright spot is you know what it is okay i had a hunch yeah absolutely but i got to get all of it out i've made i've made it a very public hobby to hate conor freeder's door yes you have and he wrote such dumb shit i got to get all of that frustration out i feel so good a bit about this so grateful for him being such a dumbass for for those listening amazing who weren't privy to our private conversations a couple days ago jordan literally said i don't really hate conor freeder's

door it's no big deal and then like two days later you're on twitter just wriggling on him he hadn't done anything interesting for like a few months so i was like maybe i'm over it and then he wrote that yesterday it was just like ah you forgot about your burning see the hatred for the man it was so fun yeah i hate him so much i'm glad you got to enjoy that it was a delight so uh jordan today we got an interesting episode to go over um i have come to a conclusion that i think um we need to get rid of wacky wednesday but not in the way you think aha i love the alliteration of it and that's why we have that name naturally and back in the past when uh we were doing our show the structure was such that we weren't focusing on the present day of alex jones as much as we are now yes absolutely

this year has been a lot of focusing on the present day because there's a current protracted situation going on that he's lying about all sorts of stuff uh that is relevant and we're also seeing him completely break down and constantly talk about wanting to quit in the middle of the show oh yeah drop the mic and leave sometimes quitting kind of kind of yeah i'm going to go to this special report i might be back exactly that kind of thing yeah it's it's the sort of thing where we've been focusing on that a lot more and i realize that in terms of my workflow and the way things go it doesn't make sense to have a wednesday episode that's dedicated to something else and as such we've kind of just like there'll be long stretches of episodes where

we don't have anything other than alex jones right and that's not really the template of what the show uh should be i don't think yeah i think that you know mostly alex jones absolutely almost all alex jones sure terrifying but if we've gone back to three episodes a week it kind of would be in everyone's best interest to probably try to do something else yeah now what i mean by getting rid of wacky wednesday is i just don't think wednesday works very well for that monday works much better and here's why when we do our episodes that come out on friday generally speaking we can have up to thursday covered from alex's show which only leaves us friday's show to cover on monday so it leaves us in a lurch in a situation where we'd be much

better served trying to do something uh off the beaten path for monday and then wednesday and friday alex so i'm gonna generally do that but some mondays might also still be alex but anyway the point is this isn't an alex episode yeah i like it now that we're not uh now that we're not doing modlin mondays uh every week i'm i'm happy i think that's great yeah so um we have that and we'll get into it and uh this will be the beginning of something that might take a little while uh so that'll be fun okay before we get into it let's take a moment to say thank you to some folks who signed up and are supporting the show so first darnel thank you so much you are now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thanks darnel next greg thank you so much you're now policy wonk

i'm a policy wonk thanks greg thanks greg next joseph thank you so much you're now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thanks joseph thanks joseph next my ronda thank you so much you're now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thank you moronda or maranda or my ronda my ronda my ronda my ronda my ronda my ronda ro n da i like it uh next paul thank you so much you are now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thanks paul thank you paul next hayden thank you so much you're now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk like hayden like hayden and next uh great name daniel thank you so much you're now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thanks daniel thank you daniel and finally like i say thank you to a couple people who donated on an elevated level appreciate that very much so vince s thank you

so much you are now a technocrat and oliver thank you so much you are now a technocrat i'm a policy wonk crikey mic that's fantastic have yourself a bro how's your 401k doing bro all right we gotta go full tilt buggy on this watch then all right let's just get down to business we ain't making that money off that harrowing why you pimp so good my neck is freakishly large i declare info war on you thank you so much vince s and thank you so much oliver s thank you very much to the both of you if you're out there listening you're thinking hey i enjoy this show i'd like to support these gents do you can do that by going to our website knowledge fans.com clicking the button to support the show or if you'd like to you can take that generosity and throw it

at a charity in your area that helps folks who are in need we would appreciate either very much indeed jordan so uh like i said today we are going to do a non alex jones episode and here's what i decided to do um and i almost had everything blow up in my face and not be able to do this uh oh so i what i decided is i think that we've maybe given to rosy a view of bill cooper in the past i think that's probably true and i think part of that is because we're dunking on alex and we're making fun of him in juxtaposition with this guy who he looked up with yeah looked up to and so maybe there's a little bit of a vested interest in not treating him as roughly as we treat alex because it's like hey alex this guy is your hero right you suck compared to him right

right and that's maybe an irresponsible way for us to present the source material and who this guy is i had avoided it a little bit uh as we've done a couple of bill cooper episodes because i felt like there was stuff that was more fun like the idea that he wanted to buy gannett is hilarious absolutely that is a lot of fun delightful when he does these call-in shows that end up being tech support fucking hilarious very good yes very good but ultimately that is not a fair picture of bill cooper right and so i felt like one of the things that i've gotten a lot of requests from people to do is get into the oklahoma city bombing and bill cooper's coverage of it gotcha so today we are going to embark on a journey of going over bill cooper and his broadcast

the hour of the time and how conspiracy theories about the oklahoma city bombing developed over the course of it gotcha today we're going to be listening to the hour of the time episodes from april 19 to 1995 the day of the bombing april 20th and april 21st and we will see how things went on on the old patriot militia sure it's great sure it's great hey look i said we weren't talking about alex jones i didn't say it wasn't going to be unpleasant and as i as i like to do you know when we talked about the boston bombing you know i wanted to you know make sure that we try and stay as as respectful as possible of the fact that this was a gigantic tragedy that affected so many people's lives and you know 168 people lost their lives and you know you just sort of umbrella that

out to family and friends co-workers the number of people who are severely traumatized by the events of april 19th are not something that i feel comfortable making jokes about yeah but at the same time we are going to make jokes about bill cooper and none of it is meant to disrespect the people yeah and all that so that's my boilerplate gotcha a little bit so here we go we're going to start on the 19th and bill gets on his show and it's really weird the way he begins his broadcast on april 19th his show is the evening like it's a night shift yeah so he's had plenty of time to gather his thoughts about the bombing and here's what he does you're listening to the hour of the time i'm william cooper today is the second anniversary of the wakehold massacre and i don't

want anyone out there to forget it ever a thousand years from now i want patriots somewhere i mean patriots to principles and ideals of liberty and freedom to remember the wakehold massacre unfortunately it appears that someone is using this anniversary to promote an agenda and we will be discussing that but for right now there's a vote coming up on the conference of states in minnesota in minnesota that's the big news yeah this is important yeah yep yep perfect the council of states resolution has passed in the minnesota house we must stop it in the senate so when i wait back to listen to the period of time on bill cooper's after this bombing the one thing i didn't expect was for him to get on air on april 19th

mention the bombing insinuate that it's a false flag at the completely sidelined to talk about something else entirely that's more pressing to him yeah that's wild yeah yeah he might as well have been like it seems like somebody said this bomb with an agenda and it's it's my agenda it has the same agenda that i do it's my agenda a lot of that is unknown on the day yeah that's fair so here we have bill warning his audience about a vote in minnesota about a conference of states this is absolutely not a situation where it's a vote of the public it's something that's being done in the minnesota legislature since bill says it passed the state house and it's going to the senate one essential problem is that bill doesn't ever give a bill number or name on this so it left

me in a little bit of a pickle when you just googled minnesota in conference of states nothing really helpful comes up which basically meant that i got to go to the minnesota state legislatures website and go for all the bills passed by the house and senate in minnesota 1995 there were 265 total and thanks to this exercise i learned some interesting things that is an instance of me lying this was not fun or interesting as a path of exploration because you know what pretty much all these legislative bodies do is allocate funds for projects like fixing roads and slightly adjusting wording and bills about rules regarding things like building codes in 1995 it seemed like there was a fair amount of bridge naming related business in the minnesota legislature okay at

least a couple bridges got some good bridge names or votes okay one of them was about former state legislature person who uh the bridge was named after her and the other one i think was called like hope bridge or something hey that's great good work guys yeah there is this one piece of interesting information that i did come across thanks to senate bill one one one two which was about the rights to mark of the beast it is it's about the rights to ditches okay which i didn't know was a thing that needed to be out all right all right all right that part isn't interesting but what it is is that it had to do with a town called embarrass okay there's a town in minnesota called embarrassed all right and they're proud of it god damn it i understand things like truth

and consequences do mexico and like but embarrass all right so there was absolutely no bill even close to a bill is talking about the past the minnesota house or senate in 1995 what bill is talking about is the idea of states calling for a constitutional convention where they would invoke article five of the constitution which allows a convention of states to ratify new amendments with a three-fourths vote of the states this has never been done in the history of the country and no one really knows how it would play out if states were to actually go down this road but it's been a fear and rallying cry for folks on the extreme right for years depending on you know what point they want to try and make sure bill is super worried about the liberals adding

things to the constitution here so he's staunchly against the idea but later in the 2009 time frame alex will be strongly pushing for these sorts of things as a way to for the states to fight back against barack obama oh man can you imagine three quarters of the states agreeing on fucking anything not anymore oh man they wouldn't even agree on abolishing slavery in 2020 it seems like it would become a political football yeah yeah so obscure ways that people can change or affect the constitution are a preoccupation of people in the militia patriot constitutionalist world so you can kind of understand where this drive comes from to paint things this way according to article five state legislatures initiate this process if they were to go down this road by

introducing resolutions in 1995 only three resolutions passed the minnesota house or senate one sf 66 was about deficit reduction another hf 957 was about the uh was about abandoning the sale of the administration of power services for the western area of the state the last hf 821 was about the funding for amtrak interestingly there was a big piece scaremongering about this very thing the rising tide of conference of states bills and state legislatures in the april 1995 issue of the phyllis schlafly report oh great great great great right so the reality behind what's going on is that the national governor's association had been trying to organize what you might call like a town hall style gathering of representatives from state legislatures called a conference of

states which was twisted by conspiracy theorists into being a plan to stage a constitutional convention sure this wasn't really strictly speaking true but folks like schlafly and bill cooper were able to convince enough people this was part of the plot to turn the us into a communist hellhole um and get letter writing campaigns going and so they just abandoned this plan yeah nuts does not do it off guys we just wanted to get together and now schlafly's on the fucking case that lady is crazy she's hitting up her phone trees horrific so the plan was absolutely an effort to assert states rights that almost paradoxically was torpedoed in part by the conspiracy theories of people who yell states rights the loudest michael levitt then

governor of utah and one of the primary proponents of the plan looked back on the effort as a bold vision that adapted to the times in the 1994 midterms republicans had a really good showing and ended up in control of all of congress a majority of state governorships and control of many state legislatures after that point people like levitt who were previously calling for this conference of states to assert states rights felt like they didn't need to go that route anymore and with the mechanisms of government in republican hands they could try that approach levitt literally said himself quote as the new legislative agenda unfolded those of us who had organized the conference of states could see momentum had shifted in a direction we approved of but in a fashion different

than we had anticipated we recalibrated the conference of states effort into a far less grand vision wrapped it up and focused our energies on legislative proposals which would return more control of the nation's welfare system and medicaid to state control by april 1995 bill cooper is fighting against a fake version of an idea that really isn't in play in any meaningful way the people who are pushing for it as a last resort against bill clinton got the power they wanted inside government so this move wasn't really important to them anymore i can find no solid evidence that a resolution like this passed the minnesota house in 1995 but even if it did the idea of a conference of states was already pretty much dead in the water by this point it was only

really being kept alive by conspiracy theorists who wanted to use it to stoke fears of the destruction of the constitution sure the g.o.p had taken power in the federal government so they weren't really interested in that play anymore at least not until the next time democrats get in control of congress which was hold on let me check my notes yeah the 110th congress beginning in 2007 weird how the tea party popped up just a little bit after that it is strange how when they want power they try and subvert democracy and then when they get power they try and end democracy and how like these sweeping ground swells of uh totally no completely ground oh man these are grassroots organizations this is the priority for bill yeah the minnesota what else is going on he's in texas

minnesota people are doing stuff you got to get on it this is a ludicrous thing to happen no he spends the first like six minutes of the show reading off the phone numbers of minnesota legislature people that you should call yeah it's like hey we have big issues here man that's kind of a good strategy if you don't want to deal with uh what's going on i don't think that he doesn't want to deal with it i i i get the sense that he sincerely thinks that that's a bigger issue which is weird that is weird he's weird though yeah he is so bill gets down to the the main news of the day for everyone else uh which of course is the bombing this morning just after most of the workers had entered the federal office building in okloma city

and prepared for their daily routine an explosion occurred respectful no one was prepared for this ladies and gentlemen least of all those inside the building who found themselves suddenly falling tumbling through the air many of them were buried beneath tons of debris as usual the intelligence service has all of the facts that are available at this time and you will find these facts have not been reported in their entirety anywhere else in the world including the major media in the united states including even the media in oklahoma city so you can see here this anti-media tendency that's so common among

the right wing these days alive and well in the mid 90s in the militia patriot community it's of note that the way bill is expressing these things isn't fully say that like the media is evil just that his intelligence gathering team is far more competent and have dug up the real story this is part of the the trend that's very universal among people like bill or alex jones it's key for them to invalidate all other sources of information than themselves particularly things that could potentially contradict their version of reality well you don't want that out there and you also want to call your listeners who send you messages an intelligence service it doesn't get any better than intelligent than random strangers sending you

nonsense yeah see this is the yeah that's a little that's a little much yeah it's probably an issue yeah so in this next clip bill tells us that he's got people on the scene and that there's a lot of rumors out there and you got to separate those from the truth as usual we have our people unseen with press passes in hand and they have given us a preliminary report which i will now relay to you it is important that you listen carefully ladies and gentlemen because rumors as always abound and we have heard every rumor and every possible solution to this what you are going to get now are the facts so there's rumors but this is not rumors yeah this is not rumors this is hard facts yeah bill will get to the rumors later

and maybe some of these things are rumors who knows anyway someone sent him a fucking email or something yeah so now he's got the goods oh yeah there's one thing that bill takes particular issue with and actually he complains about on the 20th and i think again on the 21st and that is reporting of death tolls and estimates about death tolls he seems to like really be staking a claim on this hill as like this is the proof of the media lying or something okay and i don't think it's i don't think it's very good i don't think it's responsible the national news reports especially on abc are completely off base and out of line as you might expect the body count keeps going up but as far as actual on the scenes reporting goes at 4 30 p.m. this afternoon

oklahoma time only 22 confirmed dead 17 of them children from the daycare center washington was reporting 81 dead but no one on the scene can confirm any numbers yet that even approach that number this is a kind of an unfair game i think that bill is playing i don't understand what his point is he's saying that they're exaggerating the death tools basically or or it's loose reporting i think it might be more like you feel like it's not that big a deal well i i think that if people were maliciously lying about stuff sure maybe that would be bad sure the idea of estimated death tolls being per possibly inaccurate in the immediate aftermath of a giant terrorist attack that's supposed to be normal i don't know if he can

really call someone as long as they qualify things with like a we can nothing's confirmed right right i don't know if you can fool people i'm going to call that at worst a mistake based on trying to report too fast perhaps yeah you know you know whenever there's a mass casualty event there's inevitably estimates that go around about the death toll which almost always end up being higher than the eventual concrete number like i remember throw people throwing around numbers in the tens of thousands about 9 11 on that day yeah which sounded possible given the two gigantic buildings in the middle of new york city had just fallen if you want to take preliminary estimates of death as being some kind of conspiracy i guess you can but that's some weak

shit the bombing of the murray building resulted in 168 deaths so it's not like the number he's citing from what he appears to have heard on abc news is actually high bill doesn't cite where his number of 22 dead comes from and based on how his reporting generally goes it's probably just something one of his listeners told him which he then gets to call his intelligence service an article from april 19th in the united press international says the bombing killed quote an undetermined number of people and the article goes on to say quote dozens perhaps hundreds of people died in the blast the governor's office put the confirmed death toll at 26 late wednesday but the number was expected to rise as rescuers searched the wreckage this same article quotes

the then governor frank keating saying that quote he had heard as many as 40 people were dead but said that had not been confirmed they also quote a doctor at one of the triage centers who told upi quote they have found 80 people but only two were alive so they told us to go home that would put the death estimate at 78 but the article also is clear that quote the medical workers report could not be confirmed yeah so there's caveats all over the place yeah yeah i don't know what precise reporting it is that bill cooper is mad about in terms of death estimates but it seems entirely likely to me that when he says washington was reporting 81 dead it could have been media reports like things about that triage doctor where responsible media qualify it is not

being confirmed and it's an estimate yeah either way this feels like a cheap way for him to play games that surround the idea that he's more careful than other media and thus more trustworthy which is kind of dishonest anyone reporting on this story as it unfolded on april 19th would obviously know that it would be impossible to have a concrete number of fatalities for quite a while and even bill's 22 number of confirmed deaths contradicts the upi reporting of 26 yeah when bill says 4 30 p.m that makes me think that what he's talking about is a press conference that bill clinton and janet reno held to brief reporters on the status of things because that was the time that they had that presser oh well that'll make him mad and he mentions washington you know washington

and 4 30 kind of makes me think it's this press yeah he's not a huge fan of those two new in this conference clinton gives a very brief statement it doesn't take any questions then reno gets up and discusses the police response and investigation though she will not comment on things that would hinder the investigation itself so discussion of suspects or methods of the attack are off limits as reno is taking questions this exchange happens we have some statistics on the casualties but they are increasing every moment are what we are trying to do is to make sure that we pursue every lead theme what what we have been told is that there were 550 people assigned in the building only 250 had been accounted for before i came in there may be as many as 100 to 250 more people

to account for the casualty figures are climbing 100 victims have been treated six children who in the who were in the day care center have been confirmed as as dead and we are just pursuing absolutely every lead that we can that was the statement from washington that was a 4 30 p.m on april 19th and it doesn't sound anything like what bill is saying jane reno didn't say that 81 people were dead there's just an acknowledgement that the number is going up there's no commitment to a specific figure and there's a recognition that a lot of people are unaccounted for as of that time yeah that's not her saying that those people are dead just that with the work of tracking down all the folks who could have been in the building had not been completed yet i find very little

credibility or credence to a bill is reporting based on contemporary public reports it really feels like he's creating a straw man of bad reporting to compare himself to in order to make himself look like good reporting yeah responsible reporting is willingness to say we don't know yet and that is anathema to what the right wing propagandists do they know now immediately and they know it perfectly and whatever it is that they say is going to be a lie more more than likely so we get to his reportage and it turns out that there's a shopping mall that got closed immediately after the explosion ladies and gentlemen the shopping mall at northwest 50th and 10 was evacuated because it houses a smaller office of the federal bureau of investigation

no mention was made of sealing off any areas in norman which is 17 miles south of oklahoma city in particular the office of the fbi which is located about four blocks from the front door of one of our operatives so the problem with the information bill is presenting is that there are two different malls at the intersection of northwest 50th and pennsylvania avenue in oklahoma city one is the penn square mall which is a mall like you might conceive of a shopping mall it's indoors and it's home to stores like jc pennie and dillards the other is a big office complex called 50 penn place right across the street in the aftermath of the bombing both of these malls were evacuated because there are some fbi offices on the top a couple floors of 50 penn place the

office building not the shopping mall sure this was done as a precaution and it may look like it's suspicious if you want it to but the same person making that argument about suspicion we probably screamed about the malls not being evacuated if god forbid there had been another bombing the way bill's presenting this it almost sounds like there's a shopping mall where you have an orange julius next to an fbi substation and that's not the case fbi needs orange julius too i don't disagree with that it's delicious i'm not sure if it's delicious i don't think it's any good yeah i don't know what food they make they want to have food i don't think they have food they just make oranges yeah i'm not exactly sure bill thinks he's proving by saying that

there were some things closed in norman that's not really suspicious a giant terrorist attack had just gone down you'd expect people less than 20 miles away might be cautious i can't find any confirmation uh that the fbi satellite office in norman was evacuated or closed but the office itself is real i would guess that it was if it was closed it was another good precaution after a gigantic terrorist attack no conspiracy norman is like a 25 minute drive away from oklahoma city and the satellite office is in a strip mall that has a bunch of other tenants if you were off for operating off an assumption that the target might be but not definitely was but might be someone attacking federal authorities you would be putting lives at risk unnecessarily

if you didn't cover your bases yeah i don't see anything weird about the things bill is pointing to as weird so far and honestly this section of the show revealed something to me that i've already touched on a little bit but i didn't realize until this point in the episode it's minnesota's fault no oh when bill is reporting this stuff about there being a closure in norman he says it's near one of his intelligence gathering people's houses and that made it clear that i i should realize this already but a lot of the times bill like he sounds like he's reading a large passage from a book or like a newspaper article he's actually reading an email from one of his listeners that's all it is he speaks in this authoritative voice because he believes that everything one

of his listeners tells him his intel as opposed to just being possibly an accurate gossip this little wrinkle um is something that makes bills show harder to decipher for me when i'm listening to him make a claim that sounds absurd should i even try to track down where it comes from it's possibly based on some news item but it might also just be a listener email in which case there's nothing i can do with that it's a it's a bad way to operate mostly because bill doesn't differentiate concrete reporting from listener emails explicitly which introduces confusion when upi reported on the triage doctors claim that there were 78 people dead that they had seen they were clear to point out that this number you know it's hasn't been confirmed so

the reader has the ability to hear the perspective of the doctor that had been interviewed while at the same time understanding that the specifics weren't verified and should not be taken as such reputable media outlets operate in such a way as to help the audience make more informed decisions and one of the important aspects of that is being upfront about you know how solid some of your information is yeah i suspect the bill doesn't call out the fact a lot on his show that his shit is mostly listener emails because he does out kind of expose that his journalistic endeavor is more theater than journalism it's more fun to imagine that he has people observing you know like my my guy who's only four blocks away from the fbi office you're like oh is somebody

always watching the fbi office does he have people watching every fbi office no it's just some guy yeah it's just some guy lives there most certainly so we get some more reports from weirdo listeners tinker air force base was put on emergency alert and for several hours no one was admitted on or off the base later in the day base personnel were allowed onto the base but everyone entering was subjected to a total identification check in some or search so what uh yeah i'm i'm struggling here so what so more than 1000 people from tinker air force base assisted in search and rescue in the aftermath of the bombing it's not just fighter jet pilots who are stationed there and one of the most important things that was they had their own fire department who were able to be deployed to

the bomb site oh man the idea that this base would ramp up security after a massive terrorist attack again is nothing suspicious i don't understand i'm getting serious the arkansas department of transportation is on the road kind of vibes out of this thing yeah i mean like the bill complains that like femas getting involved in the national guard and stuff but like the national guard can be activated by the governor and the governor did do that keating did that yeah he verbally made the declaration of an emergency at 945 that morning but it was very clear that it was already being treated as an emergency prior to him articulating it publicly look all of the agencies whose job it is specifically to respond to something like this are doing their jobs what

better evidence of a conspiracy could there be dance the bomb went off at 902 a.m. and at 915 a.m. the oklahoma department of civil emergency management was fully activated yeah and that is triggering of certain things right like the governor can call in the national guard to assist you can call in fema and start coordinating with the federal yeah assistance response none of that stuff is suspicious at all it's exactly what you would think yeah it's their job yeah it's their it's their job totally reporting on that is like oh look this guy who works at a car factory is helping build cars today and there's more security at the air force base yeah terrorist right fbi substation and norman might have been evacuated yeah terrorist i don't know i don't know what

picture is being painted here but it's not compelling no it's not no this is weak yeah so bill's got uh uh someone on the scene but it might he might actually have two people on the same week our station trees chief drove south and walker from northwest 23rd street trying to get closer but was turned aside by guarded roadblocks yeah terrorist she tried entering the area from several different possible back roads routes but there were simply too many police national guard highway patrol and sheriff's deputies to get anywhere near the scene despite the fact that she possesses a valid press pass and credentials representing the kaji news service and veritas newspaper every little alleyway and gravel half road that she tried to access was fully guarded and

sealed the parameter is solid good to you if there was a way to get on the scene our people would have done it and in fact one has but until that person comes out again we cannot get a report or there is no communications out of the area unless you have access to the emergency communications equipment of the officials on the scene so first of all i don't believe this listener that bill has actually possesses a valid press pass i don't know what the standards are for getting universal press passes but it seems like i provide information for a conspiracy show on shortwave radio and the host zine might not make the cut seems like that

might be like i don't know about that you know you write down i am press on some three rule paper and you are press that's how it works as a press pass even if they did have a press pass there's obviously reasons why they couldn't get into restricted areas like what this was an active crime scene where hundreds of people were engaging a desperate search and rescue mission there's no need for bloggers assistance to be getting in the way all right i can see where you're coming from here yeah by nine fourteen a m aerial shots of the building were being transmitted on tv and coverage was continuous but it totally makes sense that the police and other groups who are making a perimeter would do whatever they could to make sure there weren't just hundreds of reporters

of ranging credibility wandering around yeah that's probably bad whenever you're investigating something yeah i we've got a lot of footprints here i let me investigate oh no we just have want to keep that to a minimum yeah yeah yeah in emergency i found some dna evidence that it was everyone also this is an interesting tale that bill has about one of his people infiltrating the bomb site obviously cell phones weren't to the level that they are today back in nineteen ninety five but there were cell phones this person who'd gotten into the site probably would be able to call bill at any point if they had a cell phone presumably are presuming that there wasn't just like the normal lack of signal problem that comes from any time that there are lots of people

trying to make calls in the same area simultaneously that's not the government jamming signals like bill is trying to insinuate yeah at ten a.m. what uh southwestern bell began and adding channel capacity to their cell capabilities particularly for the area of downtown oklahoma city to make the problem of not getting a signal less likely to occur for people trying to find their loved ones or just trying to make a call and this work was completed by two fifteen p.m. to get some idea of the overloading that was going on at the time between nine oh two and eleven a.m. southwestern bell recorded over twelve million calls attempted in the city god damn i'm sure there were some bands of frequency that were dedicated to emergency responders but that really has no bearing on

whether or not a guy bill knows who snuck into the murrow building site would be able to call bill and then tell him what he saw that story does not make sense and also kind of leads me to believe the bill whether intentionally or just instinctually is trying to craft more conspiracy into this story than a straight up reporter might yeah i'm confused how that guy at that person got in there i mean i would like to know cross country trip was he was it snowing at the time was he skiing all the way over the false nose and glasses yeah always a false nose and glass press pass i'm fbi with the press uh-huh i'm the fbi press sure so we get here an indication that only uh only medical people get through the only other people being allowed through the roadblocks

or medical personnel who can flash medical cards no one else is being allowed into the area regardless of so real quick when he says uh the only other people are medical folks uh the people who's talking about before this are people who work for like utility companies like gas companies because they got a shut off sure gas to the surrounding area in order to make sure there isn't a gigantic explosion yeah of the reason no members of the local press who were not on the scene within the first hour have been allowed in since the rumors spread of a first of a second and then a third possible bomb these rumors are not true how do you find everyone in the downtown area who did not have a medical fire our police function was moved backed away from the federal

building area a distance of five blocks so first of all there's no legitimate reason for non-essential people to be allowed anywhere near that building it might be too much possibly to say absolutely no press but in the circumstances that were going on where people were trapped in the rubble and search and rescue triage work was going on to the level it was it makes complete sense to really only let in a few members of the media uh excuse me sir i am a citizen slooth please allow me in beat it oh god damn i'm pretty sure that more than just medical personnel were allowed in like people had a good reason to be there but here's what i'm guessing happened bill's listener tried to get in and the guard wouldn't let them the guard said something like

unless you have a medical card you're not getting through which gets translated to reporting that only people with medical cards are allowed in yeah that seems like the game of telephone that's being played here yeah either way i really do appreciate that bill is on the side of saying that the bomb scares that happened after the initial explosion were not real bombs i'm sure he's gonna have a terrible take on this but at least at this point he doesn't seem to think there were actually more bombs which is not the case with some oklahoma city conspiracy theorists at 10 28 a.m there was a rumor of a possible explosive in the building and everyone fell back obviously even if you think the odds are unlikely you have to take it seriously when there's the

possibility of another bomb the all clear went out at 11 22 a.m and rescue efforts continued then at 1 30 p.m searchers found a suspicious crate and the building was once again evacuated at 148 p.m the bomb squad showed up and determined that it wasn't an explosive so the all clear came quicker this time and rescue efforts were back on track by 202 p.m it's just tragic and terrible the valuable time was lost in these rescue efforts but the possible damage of not taking all precautions in a situation like that is almost unimaginable yeah if you have tons of first responders and rescue teams in the building trying to help people and then a second bomb goes off the physical and psychological blow that would cause would be staggering if i understand

bill's insinuation here though which she doesn't really spell out but it definitely seems like this is what he's hinting at he seems to be saying that the bomb scares were fake but not in the way that i think they were i think that they were fake in the sense that there weren't actual bombs but the teams on the site didn't know whether they were real bombs or not and had to operate under the assumption that they might be bill seems to believe that the bomb scares were fake in the sense that they were made up by the officials as a pretext to form a perimeter five blocks away from the building to keep the media sure sure sure again he doesn't explicitly say that but it's a strong impression that i get when i was listening to him spell this out yeah the way that he's

connected certain ideas to each other makes you makes you look behind and you're like i don't think you are disagreeing with me the way that i'm yeah yeah because he's explaining this in the context of like why his kaji member couldn't get into the uh yeah yeah so it's it seems to be from the tracking of thoughts that it's related but i can't say that he says that explicitly can you imagine somebody in law enforcement whether after a bomb goes off and they get a report of a possible second bomb they're just like now my gut says this guy can only make one bomb let's just keep on going ignore that shit like that's insane yeah that is insane yeah so initially there were some reports of uh suspects who are of middle eastern uh heritage naturally and uh to bill's

credit he does reject this earlier reports were made of three possible suspects and a blue pickup truck with tinted windows two of middle eastern appearance between the age of 25 and 35 and a third male no description given who supposedly was driving this pickup truck nothing was said about why they were suspects but i question this and so do our agents on the scene for there is a large population of middle eastern muslims in oklahoma city edmund and norman and the university of oklahoma has several large islamic student community groups unless the three men actually did something suspicious there should have been nothing out of the ordinary about their presence many such individuals live and work in this area especially in that part of downtown oklahoma city

which houses so many offices for middle eastern businesses good on you bill i mean man can't uh can't really take fault with that uh assessment no considering uh alex jones had 40 different bomb suspects on the day of the boston bombing he's just throwing pictures up left and right true yeah i i do appreciate this i mean it's uh you know i think by the time we get through this episode you won't have a positive view of bill but naturally but at least there are little moments like that where i mean i wish you would recognize or make more explicit the fact that like the reason yeah why they were it shouldn't be viewed as anything out of all the ordinary and i can't think of any reason why a certain group of people would be chosen as scapegoats right i would

make no sense he doesn't take the second step in terms of making a critique of why this would be the first thing that people's minds go to but he does say that if they didn't do anything there should be no reason why they would be considered suspects which is halfway there and for someone in the world the bill is in and the we cover it's kind of amazing almost but it in in in a certain way that his event like not putting that second step together is like yeah yeah no no no of course you should be racist towards these people but it doesn't make any sense to do it now that's stupid like there's a certain part of like this is this is bad investigation on your part not not a criticism of why you're choosing it maybe maybe not but what i think you're assuming

a motivation i'm not positive what it is so i'm not going to sign off on what you're saying but maybe i don't know i'm not assuming a motivation i think it's just like the way that that thought process like you're assuming the thought process yeah and i'm not certain that is the case i i will say that this clip so far has given me a very like bill what the fuck is your deal vibe like we're going to find out a little bit about it man what are you doing we're going to find out what's going on here bill does not handle crazy as well okay good great not like swooping into anger like alex might but i eat it he's just he is a terrible job oh boy so bill has been going over this report from one of his intelligence sources sure and now he's going to get into respite got some rumors

okay some rumors that are going around i like rumors these are some of the rumors and erroneous reports and guesses and speculations that have been broadcast around the world today now so real quick when he said that these are some of the rumors and speculations i found incredibly like confusing at first because he's just done this part where he's like the base the air force base has heightened security you know and i was like is he talking about those rumors yeah is are those the rumors right we're about to say the rumors right and i had to go back and listen to it a couple times and i'm very certain that he's saying that the things that were reported before the air force base the the fbi substation all that stuff that is not rumor those are true

what he's about to talk about his rumors it was very rabbit yeah i remember these are rumors speculations a local television station in oklahoma city received a call from an unidentified male reportedly speaking with a foreign accent who stated that the nation of islam claimed responsibility for the bombing so i kind of wonder how much utility there is and coming on a conspiracy paranoia theme broadcast and just repeating random rumors about the bomb hey these are rumors even if you preface them by saying they're just rumors and they are proven like it feels irresponsible even if it appears to be like him really trying not to be i just don't know what value it has to be like well here's something that people have said yeah that is that is straight also how silly is

it that he is rejecting that caller but is willing to accept his callers bullshit instantaneously well he's presumably talked to these callers a couple of times sure there and they pay him dues fair and i forgot about that they pay him dues okay well then i would believe people you got to pay to be in catchy okay so bill is reporting that this local station did receive this call claiming that the nation of islam took uh responsibility but he's not being precise with his own reporting this station in oklahoma was kf or and after this anchor said that they'd received this call another anchor said quote it could be a crank call they were not even reporting this as anything real themselves but while we're on the subject fuck them for saying that on air even if it

even if they pointed out that it might be a crank call go fuck yourself yeah that doesn't bring anything to anybody yeah that's some pretty irresponsible stuff and if bill's only point was that some media outlets are putting out sloppy work i'd probably be on a very similar pages if that was it but even this discussion of the the report on kf or isn't even done right that's crazy yeah everybody's making the same mistake i expect it from a short wave conspiracy theorist you know not just like hey i got a call that says i can refinance my mortgage and also it could have been made at least since you did the bombing i don't know i just get calls array well it wasn't just some weird caller to this local station there were also other people repeating this

on another broadcast dave mccurdy former democratic congressman promptly came on television and repeated the same unsubstantiated rumor so this isn't accurate dave mccurdy was a former oklahoma congressman and he did get on air and he connected the bombing to hamas not to the nation of islam upi reported on his comments quote my first reaction was there could be a very real connection to some of the fundamentalist groups operating around the city the former congressman said he said a number of muslim fundamentalist groups some with links to hamas had recently held a convention in the area you begin to think that maybe keiji is not good at uh detail work nah not there not there because this is i mean this has got to just be bill like reading more

stuff that his listeners have repaired yeah i start to wonder if he does anything you could just go get the quote yourself true you know it's there yeah by the time he's doing this broadcast he could just go look at conceivably he could even go cut it out of the show yeah i mean yeah exactly it would be a little bit more difficult than it is today but yeah still do it uh if he wanted to do any work mm well i mean it's just kanji people doing it's just catch you pretty sure it's wild yeah so here's another uh little bit of a rumor that's uh going around another report from the scene stated that firefighters going through the rubble of the federal building discovered other explosive devices and plastic which had been allegedly kept in the offices

of the atf located in the federal building that's the alcohol tobacco and firearms that particular report unlike all of the others heard today was never reported again we've also not heard it mentioned further on the scanner it was a true rumor or if it was true was quickly squashed so this again is something that bill is like talking about in the context of this list of rumors but you can hear the insinuation in his tone yeah that he's not reporting this as a rumor and honestly as far as rumors go you shouldn't report them and unless you're explicitly debunking them and you make that very clear it's unhealthy to shruggingly report rumors and entertain the possibility that maybe they're true when you

operate like this the only real outcome that comes of it is the dumber elements of an audience ignore the part where you say it's just a rumor and they come to accept the rumor is true anyone listening has probably already heard these rumors somewhere already so what's the value in repeating them and saying these are just rumors they may or may not be true it's just lazy as hell and it doesn't bring anything to the table and it definitely makes it so a year or two later somebody can just be like uh i'm pretty sure i remember that there was something about the atf heightened stuff you i don't know if it's yeah you completely forget the part where it's like oh yeah bill said that was a rumor yeah no it's it's just a data point now or whatever they call it so the

quote-unquote report of finding explosive parts in the rubble did not disappear as bill is imagining and it actually dogged the atf for quite a while in september 1995 they released a statement saying that they were quote absolutely no explosives in their office and that there were a few things in the office that could be mistaken for explosives according to a 1996 article in the washington post citing a dallas atf spokesman quote these items were not explosives but rather devices designed for training purposes that never complained uh contained explosive materials he said these types of items are used as explanative props in court cases obviously you don't want to bring a fucking pipe bomb to court they're trying to demonstrate it

and then he ripped both sleeves off and he's like these are the only explosives in the atf in timothy mcvay's trial one of the bombs that was supposedly found was explained by mike shannon the special operations chief of the oklahoma city fire department as being quote a desk ornament from an atf agent that was knocked into the stairwell a desk clock that had the appearance of a very typical type of what you'd see in a tv or comic strip of a bomb and it was in the stairwell and people were really nervous at the time and there was a burlap sack with a big money sign printed on it these were the sort of things that were mistaken for possible bombs and then reported by media outlets that were eager to get out any possible news when you hear things like in

the police scanner the report of a possible second device found yeah you don't really know what all the details are and it's easy to get the wrong impression sure now here's the thing bill cooper repeating a rumor about the atf is not just a guy repeating a rumor for the sake of bringing erroneous news to the audience's awareness oh does he have a history with the atl bill and all the militia patreon community fucking hate the atf so the repeating of a rumor about them having bombs in their office has a heavy suggestiveness to it yeah i refuse to bill uh to believe that bill wouldn't be aware of that like he can pretend he's just discussing rumors but that's bullshit that is not what this is oh there's a rumor going around that the organization that i hate most in

the entire world has got bomb pieces around i'm not saying that they're doing it but if you don't hear about it again that's because they fucking covered it up and you know it sure yeah so one more little piece of rumor here before i start to hate bill maybe i maybe i i think i hate him we'll see later radio report made mention of a rocket launcher being found in the debris which was supposed to have also been in the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms office that report also has never been repeated substantiated or denied you ended with denied it hasn't been denied i understand that the ominous music yeah so this one's actually true no shit rocket launcher yep that's fun the folks who are going through the

debris did actually find a rocket launcher in the wreckage of the building there's even a picture of it in the final action report about the bombing it sounds completely outlandish that there would be a rocket launcher in the debris of a building but it's important to remember there were multiple different law enforcement agencies that had offices there right right the dea secret service and atf all had regional offices in the building so some of the stuff that would end up being found would obviously not be what you'd expect in a normal pile of debris right bill is exploiting the normal reaction a person would have to hearing about a rocket launcher being found in order to insinuate that something nefarious is going on he doesn't offer any explanation for

why this find might not be as weird as it sounds he's just repeats it as gossip that may be true and is being covered up maybe or maybe it's just bad intel it was true and it's not that weird and no one was covering it up it was reported in the ap the next day April 20th yeah check out this fucking rocket launcher right guys hey that's weird yeah i i don't i i just don't care yeah so i i mentioned i might be starting to hate bill yeah and i think this is where it all like all that so far was just like this is irresponsible i mean it's bad it's bad work the day of a like a national tragedy but what do you expect right this is where i was like this is where we step off the ledge i fucking hate you the hour of the time is brought to you ladies and gentlemen by swiss america trading

we suggest that if you want protection of your assets against what is sure to come and this is just a taste those of you have been listening to this broadcast for a long period of time you know many of you have already prepared as prediction after prediction comes true right on schedule not because i'm psychic oh boy not because god talks to me oh my god not because i look into a crystal ball not because i'm in contact with extraterrestrial beings or channel the ascended masters but because i've studied for the last 25 years listening to that clip you can almost see alex doing a bill cooper impression he talks all the time about how he doesn't you know what the globalists are doing because of magic powers but because he's studied them this is alex's shtick to a tea

down to the paranoia fueled sales pitch for gold he brings up his gold sponsor and then starts talking yeah pretty paranoid-ish i was and it descends even further into a deep paranoia about how shit's going down the incidents of terrorism will escalate the power of the police state will exhalate exponentially all right calm it down freedoms liberty will disappear all nations and all people will be disarmed there are russian agents in this country now supervising sure armament of the united states of america and we have people in russia supervising supposedly their disarmament also so russian agents are disarming us and we're disarming russia or whatever there's you know terrorism's going to escalate exponentially it's bad news yeah bad

news but it gets worse it's a summer of raid this is going to affect you on the local oh no not on my local uh-huh i'll say this again so that there is no misunderstanding as this state of chaos develops as local anarchy takes form food will disappear from the supermarket shows the economy will collapse those who have not prepared are going to find themselves in a ditch whoa minnesota has love embarrassed now these are harsh warnings but they are real true warnings and they come from my heart from a position of knowledge this is not conjecture this is what is planned for america so sure you're going to be in a ditch sure that's the plan but those who will not take sides either

with the new world order are with patriots in this country will be the flotsam and jetsam upon the tides of war and will be at the mercy of the victor i got a pause right there just really quick whoa he gets through this i would assume that should the patriots win you shouldn't say that we're going to enslave i really think that's kind of what he said i'm pretty sure that's kind of what he said i feel like you're bad guys if they win they should enslave right the people who stayed out of it right you're the good you're supposed to be the good guys yeah you're not supposed to take it out on people who sat out this is a bad binary i don't like this choice no shit yeah that might be a little bit uh i prefer neither can we pick neither you know you're going to be flotsam

and jetsam dammit one gold or silver coin could save your life really no one during that period of time will accept paper money under any circumstances why if you do not have something useful or real money to trade on a black market you will be helpless you will be hungry and you will be without shelter they're stealing your house i suggest you call 1-800-2-8 i suggest you watch my predictions so here we are that's some real alex shit yeah this is just a gold sales pitch masquerading his coverage of what bill thinks is coming in response to the oklahoma city bombing and make no mistake about this this is from the night of the bombing he's on air saying that there will be escalating terrorism local anarchy food shortages and a

financial collapse and if you and your family don't have gold or silver to barter with you're fucked this is as manipulative and evil as pretty much anything i've ever heard from alex in terms of sales pitches and i fucking hope bill's gold sponsor paid well because hearing that really put bill into a different category for me yeah that's i would like to think that bill was above something like that but clearly he's not he's willing to let his sensationalism run wild in a time when his audience is particularly confused and scared while trying to sell them gold which is going to save them in the coming dark times yeah bill did call out that his show sponsored by this gold sales operation so at least it's a little more above board than alex in

terms of like a disclosure but that really doesn't matter in a context like this what he's doing is abusive sales practices and if that's in your moveset every other move you have becomes very suspicious that's that's the same thing as as alex being like zinc will save your life this he's literally saying that gold will save your life one piece of gold could save your life he literally will die right you will be in a ditch unless you have at least one piece of gold and so kidnap a leprechaun or call this number i'm not i'm not like fully convinced that he doesn't also really love gold right but you you when you're in the middle of a plug for your gold sponsor right can't act like that yeah if you say things like that and you don't have a gold

sponsor then it's like wow you're a little bit sensational whatever yeah there's clearly a financial tie to this yeah that's really really really fucked up and i i just can't uh i can't allow it yeah that's almost the fda should send a letter gold cannot save your life it is not a prescription unless you have a full on doctor's note yeah so bill gets into talking about how he's been right about every prediction of course future events they always have but except for one and that is the uh the trial of manuel noriega sure he got that one that'll happen every other one that'll happen you can't get a ball right and the reason that he got the manuel noriega one wrong is because he thought that manuel noriega would have sovereign immunity and so the u.s couldn't

try sure or something the u.s doesn't usually go into other countries and fuck them up that'd be crazy for under international law they have immunity so do all diplomats you're going to see that disappear also the sovereignty of nations is no more including the sovereignty of the united states of america sure the military forces the army navy air force and marines are functioning as the police force of the united nations under publication 72 77 so bill wasn't that you know like he's in the middle of this rant about he's never been wrong about any prediction other than the noriega one which is meant to give credibility to his prediction of all the horrible stuff that's coming of course which was only in order to strengthen his gold pitch he starts there saying

that people other than heads of state who have sovereign immunity are diplomats but that's going away now 25 years later who came out just around this time to maybe so diplomatic immunity was a very popular thing yeah maybe but that prediction was wrong yeah anyway also that document 7277 is a favorite of alex's it's the thing he claims proves that the un plans to disarm the united states we've talked about a ton in the past so just as a reminder it was a plan that was proposed but never enacted in any way it was released in 1961 during a period of severe tension between the united states and the soviet union where people felt that a nuclear war could arrive any day and thus plans for peaceful de-escalation were sometimes a bit idealistic in conception and

that was definitely the case with 7277 the first stage of that proposed plan involves limiting the united states and soviet armed forces to 2.1 million persons each which definitely has not been done we're a little bit over that benchmark but russia's army is currently at about 3.5 million so clearly that stage has not been met it's a plan that's a bit utopian but it was proposed by us has never been enacted and was the product of cold war desperation it's basically just lived on as a boogie man of the hard right folks and the minute men and the john birch society is proof that the globalists want to take their guns when it wasn't even about individual desire when to begin with had to do with states yeah that's uh that's great that's great yeah work guys yeah so that's uh

that's another little direct parallel of a document that bill and alex both use so at the beginning of the show you know within a minute of its starting bill was insinuating that this was a false flag yeah and that insinuation becomes more explicit as we go along what happened today in oklahoma city was a part of the agenda to bring about the new world order you watch as the stories continue to unfold it is no accident that this occurred on the second anniversary of the wakehold massacre correct so this is where bill's whole shtick completely falls apart or at least it should for anyone who's paying attention earlier he was complaining about rumors flying around and seems to be particularly put off by people speculating about estimated death tolls

but now before his show is even over he's clearly staking a claim that this was a false flag which he has in no way proven bill is comfortable deciding on the entire narrative and the overarching truth of the event with no proof at all but demands someone prove exactly how many people died by 4 30 p.m. or else they're out of line and being irresponsible there's a very serious disconnect here and it's a problem the fact that bill is clearly already decided on the day of the bombing that it was a false flag you know that's going to affect how he processes new information about it he has a pre-determined conclusion already and he's publicly declared where he's planting his flag do you think he's going to go out of his way to debunk the claim he's already committed to

based on years of supposed research that he's done this is a massive problem for me bill presents himself as the guy who insists to do your research he's the guy who scolds his callers for repeating things they just heard somewhere he's the guy who complains about rumors in the aftermath of a tragedy and yet here he is deciding with zero proof that this bombing was done to advance the new world order it's just a really sad betrayal of what's supposed to be his brand between this and the gold sales thing you really start to see a different picture of bill he's kind of the same piece of shit that all these guys are he's just a little bit more serious about yeah it's a real bummer yeah but you know it is what it is yeah that's true so bill is clearly mad about

wakeout yeah like it it's very clear in his somebody else was that day two i don't know what you're talking about yeah that is true um maybe two others if you count timby vacan and alex jones yeah there's that yeah so bill's mad at the fbi about that and because of that he thinks that any involvement of the fbi in investigating the murrow building bombing is no good around 5 30 p.m our washington people began meeting with the governor and the governor's mansion supposedly to get coordinated with the federal investigators sent in by wake arena and the governor has announced that the entire investigation is now in the hands of the federal bureau of investigation should we cheer the last time anyone's lives were in the hands

of the federal bureau of investigation they were burnt crisp well is that the last time more t-shirts a bit a few more since that handling their texas barbecue right that's that is definitely a selection problem yeah so i mean you know you can clearly tell that he's not coming from an unbiased place yeah whatever resentments and feelings that he has uh are are definitely a big part of how he's interpreting events before he has any reason to think those things and that's pretty essential to to understand and and it really it really leads him to be sloppy as hell and it's really embarrassing when you start to look at some of the things that he's taking the time to make a point of like this at 7 p.m oklahoma time they call over the scanner reported

packages discovered at the medallion hotel the request was made for a bomb dog to be taken to the hotel but a search of the phone directory shows that there is no such hotel listed in the oklahoma city phone book if anything transpires on that we will of course let you know so i can't speak to whether or not bill or his listeners were able to find the medallion hotel on the phone book but i can tell you with absolute certainty that there is a medallion hotel in oklahoma city at this point an article in the oklahoman from october 29th 1996 discusses its reopening it's full reopening yeah some parts were shut down because they were in the middle of an eight million dollar renovation project i was even able to find a february 1995 article about the beginning of the

renovation project like that hotel exists there is a new york daily news story from may 7th 1995 about how tom brokaw apparently got really mad at someone at the medallion hotel because they'd lost his reservations when he was there covering the bombing god damn it the petty image of that aside this article also points out how the medallion stepped up in a major way and offered rooms to people who were injured in the bombing as well as rescue workers who really needed a place to stay so good for you medallion in 1998 the medallion was bought by cap star and it was renamed the west in oklahoma city and it has since been renamed again in 2004 to the charidan anyway the point here is that bill is reporting this news as if it's a gotcha moment they heard on the scanner

that a bomb sniffing dog was sent to the medallion but they can't find it in the phone book and this is worth bringing up on the show all this proves that his investigative team couldn't find a hotel that definitely exists in the phone book did they not think to take a second a second step to figure out if the hotel was real or did they just flip through a few pages and decide bill needed to know about this did you guys check the yellow pages as well oh no you missed it it's only four blocks away from the murrah building so this doesn't seem like something that would be the hardest thing to get to the bottom of did they literally not ask anyone hey do you know where the medallion is what do they think this also what do they think this proves if like the

they think the medallion isn't real also supposedly you've got a guy in there you could just have him walk to the people yeah there's two people in there come on man i don't know what they're like i guess that the theory is that they're speaking in code like the medallion hotel means something else because why the fuck else so you bring this up on the show it's meaningless yeah that's that's real weird this is a dud of a scoop from bill and kaji also don't fucking hold your breath on them giving any updates on this when they realize it's a real hotel we looked into the red roof in and it seems there's no such company exists ridiculous nonsense so that makes this a little harder to swallow as you have heard tonight this is the only complete and factual report that has

occurred through any media all day long huh that is due to the people who have dedicated their resources and their lives and they've taken an oath as officers and men and women of the intelligence service of the second continental army of the republic you're going uh so that's apparently what kaji i don't like that i don't like that at all i don't like that at all it's not no thank you pleasant uh yeah so really factual show i mean i will say that like there are parts that i'm not playing that are just like you know the red cross set up a blood drive center he's saying stuff like that that's like uncontroversial and like yes that did happen yeah so there are some factual pieces of it but i mean the overall picture that you get from listening to this is

not a thorough and factual reporting yeah it's very clearly stilted in one direction yeah it's a factual reporting with little bits that i really want to put in there just so you know what i'm saying you know what i'm saying uh and so bill has a like a more solid prediction of what's going to happen all right and then after this he starts playing the audio of the bomb repeatedly oh that's not almost like it's a trance you know like he'll play it and then he'll say something and then play it again and then say something it's a very weird really fucked up yeah it is i don't want to listen to them it was unnerving we're not going to listen to it like in its entirety okay but we'll listen to like a tiny bit of the end of the sound and then i'm saying something i just wanted to give

you a sense of like what the structure yeah of this like couple minutes okay memorize that sound ladies and gentlemen you will hear it more and more in america not because i want it and believe me i have nothing whatsoever to do with it i didn't think you did until just now of the emerging one world totalitarian socialist state it is furthering the agenda of the disarmament of the american people and indeed the peoples in the nations of the world it is a deceit it is a lie it is a manipulation so um you know he's repeat or he's predicting that there's going to be more bombings yeah it's going to bring in the new world order um and then he goes to playing the bomb sound effect more

hezbollah has no truck with april the 19th no patriot in this country would ever attack our government without being attacked by this government first uh i can assure you no fundamentalist religious organization has any reason to bomb any building in oklahoma city we all know in our hearts why this was done and whose agenda it furthers so we all know who did this also i'm sorry the repeated playing of the bomb sound is a little bit after this yeah i got mixed up because the first one the first time the first the first the first time in this stretch that he plays the bomb there's a little bit more right uh of him

talking until before he gets into the over and over again share share share so yeah we all know in our hearts though i i don't think we do i think i think i think i do i don't think i don't think he and i agree heart wise well when you're a guy who's on the radio and your whole big thing is like prove it you don't get to say we know in our hearts who did this no i'm pretty sure that we know in our hearts is proof you don't really get to do that and just keep the facade up that you're some kind of a like a researcher all of those other media outlets are lying about that it's a little you don't know if there's a hundred or twenty two that's all we know right now obviously this is a false flag attack naturally it's a little it's a little much so um in this in this next

clip uh he's already predicted that there's going to be more bombs and he repeats this prediction like in really really quickly after remember that sound you will hear it again in america and again and again until they realize their goal of their utopian totalitarian socialist world government what is happening furthers an agenda so it's really hard to capture something like this by just playing clips but i want to stress to you that at the end of this episode bill is making a very serious point of predicting that there will be more bombings as the new world order brings in their utopian socialist tyranny this is an important point of the conspiracy that bill is spinning

about the event being a false flag this prediction essentially sets a condition where if you see more bombings bill's credibility goes up this is a pretty common trick that scam folks and propagandists use like when alex says that there's going to be more mass shootings and somehow this prediction proves his assertion that the current mass shooting is a false flag i'll give bill some points for difficulty though bombings are a bit less common than mass shootings in the alex jones time period but it's the same behavior i i don't understand does he believe that because he's in those circles he knows people yeah he knows the hard right people yeah i i'm not saying he knew timothy mcbay but you know like he knows people like timothy mcbay he knows a lot of people in

the militia patriot world i think that he thinks himself to be a leader of the patriots and the militias so he second continental army so he thinks that because he says we would never do this unless it was quote unquote self-defense no i mean that means all of the militia people believe that same well i mean isn't that there's the no true scotsman kind of thing sure you know like you sure you define who is and who is not a militia patriot by whether or not if they killed a person they couldn't possibly not in our group yeah yeah i think that there's some of that and then i also think that maybe you know bill has some idealistic ideas about the group of people that actually do believe the same things as him i think there's a there's a whether it's sincere or performance based yeah

there's a naivete to the world that he swims in i guess but i mean you gotta know some of those people are chomping at the bit right you know like how would that serve his interest to be aware of that for sure for sure you get on the radio and be like hey let's be honest no we are surrounded by angry racist yeah there's a lot of them around some of them are crypto in nature but hey look there's some dangerous fucking people yeah hey i love the constitution i'd love to protect it against tyranny but guess what a bunch of my friends are fucking scary yeah that wouldn't be good that does seem like the head of the police unit coming out and being like did you guys know cops are crazy man these people are murderers i think it doesn't work i i think it doesn't work for your

ends i think that might be against the rules yeah so um this is where he's just like coming in and out of the bomb sound effect uh it's just this is ridiculous this is unacceptable it is not our agenda jesus yeah it's in jesus it's it's it's a presentation that is deeply fucked up fucking i felt very weird let's listen to that this is this is a 1960s cold war like get under your fucking desk if the big one drops there there are shades of that yeah jesus christ so as the episode closes bill is trying to ram into his audience's head that this was a false flag can't be it is the agenda ladies and gentlemen of the world

to palatarian socialism and don't you ever in your wildest dreams forget it it will come again good night and god bless you all so we just doing this then everybody jordan that song is a song that alex plays all the time is it he plays the lennard cohen version of it though okay but he plays that all the time okay it's it's a it's a very interesting thing i've never heard that on any other radio show it's this the song that bill ends his oak oklahoma city uh show with is a common bumper music from alex's show man not

necessarily a concrete connection but it's very interesting it's very it's very weird to me when i was listening to that like the the april 19th episode the fact that he started by talking about the fucking minnesota bill hey come on like that blew my mind that's scary shit and then when i listened and it got to the end and that was the song that he went out with i was just like that's weird yeah i only know that song from alex yeah alex probably stole literally everything from bill come in look at it yeah the paranoid sensationalism in service of a gold sale the the like there's so much here that is just very alexy yeah very very and yeah so we get to the 20th and we see things continuing in a weird way one of the things i think is the most important is

you see the way that bill is kind of playing volleyball by himself he sets himself up and then spikes a bomb and he starts out the show with uh something that he believes is a spike and i hate to tell you this ladies and gentlemen because i just can't stand being right when i'm right about these things a pipe bomb located under a wheelchair access ramp exploded around 2 15 p.m. eastern day like time at the provincial legislature building in charlotte town prince edward island canada the legislature was in session the bomb blew out the windows on three floors the glass came in on the legislators one person sitting on a bench outside the building was injured no suspects have been found security has been beefed up i told you this will escalate and i'm not

joking ladies and gentlemen this is not funny they will do anything the unjustifies the means is their philosophy read my book you know what i'm talking about you know what they're prepared to do anything anything and everything to get there utopian world government so this is a really good example of how conspiracy theory works and how it leads people astray even if they think that they're operating as critical actors on his april 19th show bill announced his prediction that there would be more bombings as the utopian socialists tried to bring in their authoritarian state and then the next day he finds a piece of news about another bombing and this is enough to prove to him that his prediction was right and thus he must be on the right track about the

bigger picture namely that the bombing was not the act of organic terrorism how could it possibly be a solitary terrorist attack if there was another bombing the next day you can easily see how if you didn't take a step back this can be an attractive thinking pattern but ultimately it's a bad one the bombing in prince edwards island prince edward island was done by a man named roger charles bell who wasn't actually arrested until december 1996 so bill would have no idea who he was at this point at all when he's on air yeah bill bell was a disgruntled former teacher who decided to lash out in society by carrying out bombings he struck first in 1988 when he set off a pipe bomb in front of the provincial law courts building he laid low for six years then

bombed again leaving a pipe bomb in a trash can in a halifax park from this point he seemed to escalate his pattern with this legislature bombing in april 1995 and then an attempted attack on a propane plant in charlotte town in june 1996 holy shit yeah that would have been bad that guy that one did not work out yeah that guy's a serial bomber who went after a fucking damn yep after his 1995 bombing he began sending messages to the police using the alias loki seven one of these messages uh that had been has been published since had a swastika as the header and the title quote toward a final solution the body of his message said quote the latest attack by loki seven was directed at the corporate welfare bums who are the masters of the of the thieving scoundrels in

canada's bought and paid for legislature in courts the treika of greedy businessmen thieving politicians and venal injustice officials may run but they cannot hide operations against these and other enemies of the people who would be continued by loki seven hyal thor oh wow wow you know i i one of my big issues with a lot of these manifestos and and threatening letters and the like is uh too many adjectives too many adjectives if i was editing it i would just say cut a little bit of it out just saying and then using venal come on using treika is a little bit showy come on get the fuck out of here so after his botch 1996 propane plant bombing police had narrowed down the list of suspects down to basically just him and had him under surveillance around the clock

bell would plead guilty to the bombings and be sentenced to 10 years in prison that's it i don't think he killed anybody i don't i i'm i'm not advocating for more uh it's also well that's fair it's not the us that's fair um so yeah this story is pretty well fleshed out and it definitely wasn't on april 20th 1995 when bill cooper is on air making connections between the oklahoma city bombing and this bombing in prince edward island he has absolutely no reason to do so except that he wants to if your process largely consists of drawing connections between things that you decide must be related then sure they're both bombs so i can see how you'd connect them but it's just a sign of a very undisciplined set of standards for reaching a conclusion yeah the same sort of thing

you see alex jones doing whenever he's in the middle of trying to craft a narrative when something happens right right you connect all kinds of unrelated things um what was it there was one there was one thing he did that with with the boston bombing the um the ricin letters oh yeah yeah it was actually the elvis impersonator the guy who hated him yeah the connecting of that makes sense to alex on that day but it's ultimately completely not true and so now because bill on the 19th predicted more bombings he's going whole hog into this and it's wrong it's absolutely wrong and as we find out only after all the details are in the only connection to them is that nazis like bombing things we don't know i don't know if that dude was a nazi i mean he did a

swastika on there yeah but it did seem like fucked up kind of you know i don't know feel like you get a swastika you get a nazi that's my that's my feeling you're right i'm just going to go there you're right i mean yeah yeah i don't know it's not like you can weasel your way out of the swastika yeah i i just you know how it's like an old hindu symbol sure i was thinking like maybe it's a norse symbol too and i just don't understand because there's such heavy worse or the white supremacist he calls himself loki yeah i know but that's a the master race that's the the type of shit going on there there's a possible connection there anyway maybe maybe it is much more certain that that dude was a nazi i'm gonna go he probably was i just don't know enough about i know a lot

of that you want to confirm it but i'm gonna i'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you throw a nazi swastika up i'm gonna call you a nazi i'm comfortable with that so in this next clip bill gets to like speculating about what the motive might be for them oh i have an idea no no no no you have the wrong you have the wrong idea okay you're the wrong suspect i was good because i got an idea hold on to it okay remember every time a piece of gun legislation was coming up in congress somebody would walk into a mcdonnell somewhere and blow away a whole bunch of people yeah connect those dots i said it would happen i told you it was going to happen i told you who these people would be and i told you that this was going to happen too and unfortunately i'm right

you see the omnibus counterterrorism bill is setting in congress and has all kinds of opposition up until now watch it watch it be put on a freight train and pass through congress and the president will sign it before you can blink your eyes the omnibus counterterrorism bill yet another similar bills which will implement a heavier tighter police state so you see almost identical thinking patterns to alex yeah like the the shootings in the mcdonalds are in order to facilitate those gun bills being passed which must mean that they're orchestrated somehow by the globalists new world order or whatever in the same way this omnibus omnibus terrorism bill is sitting there they do this they bomb

oklahoma city in order to get this through bill who has said that he has never been wrong about predictions of future things uh says that there's nothing that can be done to stop this bill you better not let it pass but i'm telling you right now after that bombing yesterday there's nothing you can do to stop it it will pass i don't care if the whole country got up and screamed to stop it it will pass i'm telling you now it will pass i got something you can't stop it but i'm telling you you won't be able to the omnibus bill that bill is talking about here is actually two bills s390 and s761 and neither of them passed a watered down compromise bill the anti-terrorism and effective death penalty act of 1996 was passed the next year but it's pretty hard to make the

case that this omnibus bill was fast tracked and immediately passed thanks to the fervor surrounding the Oklahoma city bombing yeah this is how conspiracy thinking works there was a big bombing and there was also an anti-terrorism bill being considered in congress and thus the two must be connected the bombing was done in order to guarantee the passage of the bill which will give the globalists more control and ability to crush the militia patriots but then the bill doesn't pass and that's the part that seems to never really be considered when crafting these theories i don't need to worry about it the globalists have the power and ability to orchestrate an insanely elaborate bombing of a federal building and pull off a cover-up that would necessitate

hundreds if not thousands of people lying many of them under oath but they can't rig the vote or pressure a few congress people into getting this bill passed oh it's really hard comparatively i'm not sure it is the thing i hate about the right wing terrorists in this country like terrorists in other countries claim shit that they didn't do but all the right wing terrorists in america are a bunch of fucking craven cowards not even willing to accept responsibility for the terrorism that they love well it's even like spelled out by bill and alex says the same things too it's like whoever shoots the first shot ends up losing yeah and the information war or whatever and so like of course they could never take responsibility for something no they just love committing

terrorists acts yeah and it also leads to the insistence that must be given that no one in our community could possibly have done this right because they're afraid of the appearance of the first shot instead of being like yes there are elements within the community of acceptable beliefs that i might hold right like i like the constitution sure right yeah there are elements who of people who are attracted to the same thing who might do things that are really unacceptable and we should take an audit of that and we should try and find ways to do this better they could do that or they could raise a collective shriek so loud that no one can even be allowed to talk about whether or not right wing terrorism is real yeah so so these enemies they have are capable of pulling

off a gigantic bombing yeah they have infinite power and also can't pass a bill well they can't do anything right the insistence on creating an enemy to be against who is simultaneously all powerful and incompetent depending on what your narrative requires creates inherent inco inherently incoherent storylines but it doesn't matter by the time these two omnibus bills that bill is using his proof that the new world order did the oklahoma city bombing die in committee they aren't essential to the narrative anymore by that point there will be tons of other stories tons of other plates that are spinning so you don't notice when one drops and it's one of the like the essential pieces of why we're creating this suspicion yeah it's it's bad it's bad work bill when the bills didn't pass

what happened uh new problem goodbye right so we we start to realize like first of all bills got all these like i don't know listeners share who are writing stuff for him right yeah that's a bad that's a bad source but it turns out he has other bad sources and in that counter terrorism bill it gives the president of the united states old willy clinton you got him nice all around him dead bodies are lying what's the count now way up in the 30s i think and then the tomson can tell you she's keeping an exact count so linda tomson clinton body counts uh linda tomson good to hear from you again bill bill's a fan been a while since i've heard about how many people the clintons have just murdered yeah and it's strongly attached to bill at this point as opposed to later when it'll

be hillary well we don't need to worry about the details so there are tons of military that are coming in to help like uh whether active duty or reservists come again a lot of them baby doctors maybe logistics people who can be of only soldiers the military only employs soldiers bill bill sees this as uh proof of something namely that this is a drill but why have tens of thousands of military personnel police officers prison guards reservists national guard and air force personnel taken over the entire city of oklahoma city because there is a bomb could this be some kind of uh drill no i don't know the answer to that i do i know that what is happening is way beyond what is called for bill can't do shit like this he can't lead his audience

to a conclusion then deliver the conclusion is speculation and then just pretend i'm just saying this like i i get i get this kind of thing and honestly it's totally fine under normal circumstances if he wants to use this thin speculative insinuation to prove that some guy he doesn't like is evil that's part of the conspiracy game you got to respect the hustle yeah yeah but on april 20th the day after a national tragedy it's really malicious to do this sort of thing about the very thing that the nation is still in a state of shock about people are grieving search and rescue operations are still going on as bill speaks and for some reason he thinks it's appropriate to bat around ideas that this whole thing is a drill while safely hiding behind a

cowardly mask of feigned inquisitiveness like fuck this dude we've kind of gone light on him in the past but the kid gloves gloves are really off for me this isn't just some weird idiot who believes fake documents loves the beach boys and gets mad when he can't buy us a today he's a real shithead and a very similarly tragedy exploiting monster like alex yeah and i think it's really pretty clear when you start to look at these like these flash points yeah alex is such a piece of shit that we can give bill cooper a glowing review in comparison well and then you come back to bill cooper and you're like okay well they're both huge pieces of shit when we isolate our focus down to like kind of things that are goofy yeah you can make a case for like that bill's fun yeah he's better

at broadcasting he throws music in lots of yeah there you know there are elements that you can take away but he's he we we should make it clear he's a he's a big pile of shit yeah so we get to some more conspiracies here it was also mentioned that the fbi had collected film or tape from several surveillance cameras mounted in parking lots of other surrounding buildings sounds like what i would do specifically mentioned these will be checked to see if they can spot the bomb vehicle and possibly any suspects the question is if they do will the fbi tell the public will the public be able to examine these tapes and films we'll see so that's the same guided speculation that bill's been doing constantly wow why is he speculating about whether or not the public will see those surveillance tapes

the only reason to do that is to implant in your audience the suggestion that the public will in fact not ever see those tapes in 2009 the fbi released some raw video of the day of the bombing and other surveillance tapes have come out the key video that everyone would want however has been said to not actually exist in court richard williams the then assistant building manager testified that the cameras outside the murrah building quote had not been operational for at least two years before the bombing that sounds pretty wild but from my experience a not insignificant number of security cameras you may see in places are props the movie theater where i used to work was one such place and i've definitely heard stories about this from other folks yeah totally

this is a whole strategy a lot of businesses employee called dummy surveillance systems the goal is to put up expensive looking cameras which will have the same effect as real cameras in terms of determined deterring a criminal from robbing you if you appear to have a high tech security system oftentimes it would be criminal just decides it's not worth the risk and they choose another target you get the desired result and you save a bunch of money yep this is actually a really bad plan because good criminals know the difference between a fake camera kind of tell their little little indications that can tell and then second one of the things that i kept finding in articles was like if you put up fake cameras you might introduce a liability

that you could get sued for sure because you don't actually have footage right right because it implies a level of security that might lead someone to take a risk that they wouldn't do otherwise like if it's outside a building right they might feel safer walking by right that was one example i heard i don't i'm not positive that that one actually makes much sense to me but there are like uh civil liabilities you could get into so just to be clear if you're out there don't put up a fake camera yeah it's not worth it it's a bad idea but there are businesses that do do that it's uh i mean not everybody does good practice you know like right some people just want to cut corners save some money yeah this is hey that's great news for america but this isn't to say

that that's what the murra building was doing but it is you know conceivable that these cameras stopped working and they were never replaced because it wasn't a high priority until it suddenly became the highest priority i get how this detail would seem incredibly suspicious to conspiracy theorists but it isn't a giant red flag to me it makes makes sense yeah no cameras cameras being old and not working at a government building makes perfect sense and uh like uh like uh it like a reticence to replace that yeah yeah our nuclear stockpile is still run on computers with punch cards like nobody's changing anything and these are these are the sorts of things that unfortunately never seem like that big a deal until we realize i mean look why would you even worry about replacing

a computer that controls a nuclear weapon there's no reason to do that if it works now it's going to work forever undoubtedly yeah there were some rumors going around that fbi agents were trying to sell surveillance video the actual bomb going off to tv stations for one million dollars but retired fbi agent steven brannon testified that he investigated those claims and found them to be a hoax in addition there was a secret service log from april 24th they contained a mention of a video showing multiple people exiting the rider truck before the bombing this has caused a widespread belief that the government is covering up the existence of this tape but when a lawsuit was filed to force the release of it it went nowhere stacey bower schmitt the then assistant to the

special agent in charge of the secret service intelligence division explained that the login question was a detailing of unconfirmed reports from the days at the beginning of the investigation this is a lot less concrete than it's made out to be you know like there's a log of things that maybe had been discussed yeah or heard yeah but uh you know many people in the who are actually involved in the investigation have testified that they have never seen such a tape so it's it's possible that what's in that log is being misrepresented the rumors are always so transparent whenever they give you a dollar number where it's like they've been trying to sell it for one million dollars and you're like in it's nineteen ninety five money so one million

dollars might as well be four hundred like it's nonsense it back then if they were doing that it'd be like if you were trying to sell it to a magazine or something like that you'd be like two hundred k get out get in get out let me get out of here yeah that's all i'm saying a million dollars is a lot it's a lot it's a lot to be asking for an fbi agent like no one's gonna investigate the fbi agent who's suddenly a millionaire yeah you need enough to get out of the country and have a decent life for a bit or something i don't know yeah i i agree whenever it's a round number like that it's weird so the function of bill speculating like this is to make his audience predisposed to distrust whatever happens if no tapes are produced that's not the

result of there being no tapes or investigators keeping them as evidence for trial because that you know obviously the reason that no tapes would be released for a long time from here it's not that it's proof that there's a cover up obviously if some tapes are produced they are most certainly part of the cover up there's basically no win here unless the you know like once the parameters are set up like this it's just you're you're priming the audience to unhealthy distrust so in this next clip bill has decided that the reports that are going around that it's a fertilizer bomb are not true i can tell you from looking at the damage of that building and the great crater in front of the building that that was not made with a fertilizer soaked in diesel fuel bomb

in fact it's impossible whatever did that damage was a fast burning high explosive of the type used only in military weapons and i have extensive experience with that kind of explosive from my time in vietnam any explosive expert can tell you this ladies and gentlemen they'll tell you that i have just told you right on the truth this is meaningless bill is just saying that he's looked at pictures and determined that this could be it couldn't be a bomb made of fertilizer and fuel oil which literally means nothing this is the exact same thing as alex jones looking at pictures from the boston bombing and determining that some people he sees in them must be secret cia agents because

he knows a lot about secret cia agent posture at this point bill has no information to go on to either support or reject the then theory that the bomb was a fertilizer bomb he has no idea if the actual bomb had supplementary explosives added to them to make the blast larger there's a lot of possibilities this is legitimately just a knee jerk reaction of denialism with no proof behind it he can't prove that this wasn't a fertilizer bomb and yet he is here he is making a definitive statement about it to his audience if someone else did this about a conclusion bill didn't like he'd probably rant about how everyone believes on for unproven things and it's the death of common sense or some shit yeah he allows himself to play the games that he critiques

uh uh or makes his primary brand basically that's so fucking stupid even like like you can't tell what type of bomb went off just by looking at a few pictures if you're bill cooper like the fire investigators they've done so many investigations of their investigations and like those guys have no fucking clue what they're talking about it's practically made up nonsense like there's no way that you know what bomb it was fuck off so here's more sloppiness our station chief pinned a little note to me she says i get it but i don't what stupid ways for all of those guys to get arrested nobody is really that stupid maybe they wanted to be arrested or maybe they were somehow set up with the fbi running the show well probably

hear the real story and then she sent me another fax and said she was real sleepy when she wrote probably never hear the real stupid and she says this one doesn't pass muster even the local newscasters are reporting this lake at latest episode with slightly raised eyebrows there's not something right here i'm going to take a short nap bill my engine is temporarily run out of steam god bless all high quality that's high quality report that's a good that's a good missive from the front lines no no speculation in there um so yeah um i think i forgot to cut out this clip but there's a point where bill says that he knows what the bomb was and it's fulma night of mercury okay and he knows that because uh there were fulma night of mercury was taken out of the building

because there were unexploded fulma night of mercury sure so there's no evidence of that yeah that's later it would be alleged on a website called relevance that uh the oklahoma city police lieutenant bill martin had told them that additional explosives composed of fulma night of mercury were found on the scene in a grand jury uh testimony martin said quote what they attributed to me is a complete falsehood i never heard of mercury fulma night before that article came out and then just generally this is a little bit hard to swallow as a theory it seems hard to believe that these explosives fulma night of mercury would have survived a giant explosion so i would need some pretty compelling proof of that claim in an absence of proof and

just the presence of speculation cannot get on board with that bill can though yeah bill does he reports it on a show to us they are irrelevant uh but apparently to bill they have a great deal of relevance strong relevancy yeah so bill's got another report from a catchy member sure about what it's like on the ground a sleepy one or no no this one's away this one's uh sneezey this one's away this is a sneezey catchy this guy's grumpy okay and here's a report from david in oklahoma city today this is him talking today i have the unfortunate task of visiting the most physically and spiritually intense place i have ever been in my entire life disneyland is downtown oklahoma city which is now literally under martial law if that was a letter from a friend fine if you're

treating it as like reporting uh what are you doing jesus it's ridiculous so this guy this guy i love this guy's writing style i got to say um he's got civil war feelings yes yes dearest bill yeah it is with great sadness that i come to speak to you today so i don't know if uh uh you know the literal definition of martial law was achieved um but this uh demonstration of it being martial law really makes me laugh after he found a parking place which was a genuine miracle he was putting money in the parking meter and a civilian in a business suit walked past and said quote you don't have to put any money in there it's martial law in oklahoma city what of the primary characteristics of martial law free parking what he said he was going to put money in the parking meter i was like

there's no way it can just be about the parking meter there's no way yeah parking in martial law free parking is martial law that's how they get you whatever that's how they get you to accept the martial law you know what i accept it all right i'm fine with it so we're getting charged too much for parking in chicago it's just really interesting once you start to listen to this stuff and you're like these are what he's bringing to the table there are things that his weirdo callers and or they would be callers i guess his listeners are are just faxing him these weird letters from the front line it's it's a mess but because he is bill cooper and he is a conspiracy minded militia dude yeah it's all leading towards this conclusion this is a full drill

takeover of an american city after a staged incident that's right if you were listening last night you know why i say that i predicted it for a long time and i'm going to tell you it's going to escalate and it's all about more control of your lives by the government and eventually the united nations one world totalitarian socialist state so he feels pretty confident probably because the prince edward island bombing seems to make him look like a prophet of some sort but um anyway he starts yelling about janet rino nationally it's going to get worse fast the united states attorney general is a murderous

she murdered men women and little children in waco texas and now today on television there's a team effort to offer a two million dollar reward for the instigators of the bombing of the federal building in oklahoma city and she said she was worried about our women and children call now get your hands on some real money you're gonna need it it might save your life one of these days one 800 289 2646 one 800 289 2646 have you counted the bodies surrounding clinton yet jesus well over 30 one of these nights i'll have linda thompson on and we'll give you a count name by name and circumstance by circumstance you don't want to know clinton very well you might end up dead you can almost imagine alex listening to that and like ingraining

some of these patterns yeah like the the way that bill is implanting his plug into like really intense emotionally driven uh content is the same thing that alex does yeah it's uh and it i i i don't know if it's like hey every radio host does this it certainly feels i haven't listened to radio in a long time so it's entirely possible that uh we could be we could be the ones who are acting crazy here i don't think so i i don't know i don't i i mean i listen to a lot of like let's say love line growing up i certainly don't remember them breaking out into uh really overly dramatic ads but uh i don't know anyway bill gets back to some of his intel it's coming in from kaji man this is just like why are you doing this what is the point i met a nice lady from norway who

was with the press she got nowhere trying to get inside the perimeter she was accompanied by sound man and cameraman who seemed surprised that i knew what a sure mic mixer was a man from los angeles i was very angry that he was going to have to walk all the way to the civic center to find out anything you got him well if you ever lived in los angeles you'd understand that no one in los angeles walks yeah poor the very poor los angeles is an automobile oriented city why are we doing this uh waste of time i don't know that's that's wild yes i met a nice norwegian lady who's a reporter and they were impressed with my knowledge of sound uh many many is that what it was or was he trying to insinuate that they weren't actually press no i think he was trying to brag about

knowing about sound was that what he was doing i thought it was supposed to be something suspicious where it's like they never would have guessed that i would be on to them no i i thought it sounded like someone's mom writing them a letter from vacation you know like i was at the grand canyon i met a very wonderful couple they were surprised by how much i knew about pie baking postcard yeah exactly yeah totally right such a waste of time that is so right he had all day so i'm gonna skip this clip because it's bill just being a stickler again about the death toll so that really seems to be one of the things that he's trying to like use as a um like a fulcrum yeah take something minor that i have control over and use it as a minor but stick to bludgeon

people that i don't like with it's not minor but the complaint he has about estimates relatively petty yeah it's petty but yeah so uh we're gonna skip to uh where he starts taking phone calls and uh he gets a call from a guy who wants to know what agencies were in the building okay one thing i just wanted to uh put out there is that when we get a list of the number of judges and FBI agent secret service agents and other offices that were in that building props how many have died and we'll get a better handle on exactly uh who might have been the perpetrators in this activity the perpetrators are in Langley virginia my friend this is a guy this is a guy who made his name by saying you got to prove everything and he is making direct accusations of a gigantic

conspiracy theory without any proof yep yep that's a big claim it's almost like his scolding of his callers is really about protecting the appearance of his own credibility yeah that sounds right maybe so he gets another caller who brings up uh conspiracy uh had you heard that the university of oklahoma recorded two blasts on their seismic uh their seismometer no i had not heard that and uh nothing that could be checked out i have no idea if it's true but well we'll certainly find out this is the first that i've heard of it and it was not announced uh on any of the local stations in oklahoma city uh where did you hear that i can believe that uh i i sure you can we can't tell you now somewhere on the patriot networks like uh i just picked it up but it would be simple enough

to find out oh very easy to find out we have people right in norman oklahoma where the university of oklahoma is at and we will send somebody right over there in fact uh probably somebody listening uh is on their way probably right to the coop mobile thanks thanks a lot for the sanity i've i've been away from my short ways and i've been having to watch this stuff and try to interpret between the lines and and uh your take on it sounds a hell of a lot more reasonable to me than than anything i've heard in the last few days oh it's right on the money thanks for the sanity guy who thinks the medallion hotel might not exist woof yeah so um that is actually true that uh seismograph yeah and we'll get to that later and it's nice that bill is hearing that and not being

like yeah yeah that is true like Alex has that compulsion to know everything yeah and i do at least appreciate the bill's response to this guy is like i don't know i hadn't heard that look into it i do yeah it is it is a breath of fresh air whenever a host says i don't know there's a mild restraint there that i can i can applaud a little bit but it goes completely out the window because of everything else he does we have a report from people on the scene uh from a united states navy super top secret uh installation that the day before which was tuesday they held a bomb drill in uh one of their major installation buildings and the drill involved an explosive in a car in the front of the building

exactly the day before that doesn't mean anything this is probably erroneous gossip or something yeah but it doesn't mean anything you could show the document there was a full moon show the proof of the drill you're not even saying where this was what where was this there was a drill it's drill some secret military installation doesn't matter where it is the the new world order is everywhere dan that's bullshit yeah that's some that is some irresponsible lame nonsense it's true totally true so a large part of the focus of the the stuff that i sort of experience when i'm listening to these shows is imagining what it would be like if you were someone who listens to it and believes it yeah which is why um the the things about like bill's reporting on rumors

for no reason like obviously that is something that will have an effect on his listeners whether or not it's his intended effect or not or his stated uh intent and the reason is because you do hear things like this sometimes and it's really important to recognize that content like this does have an effect on people like if you're not careful with stuff like this it will change some of your perceptions and maybe not in ways that are very positive this caller is very clearly expressing the i mean he perceives it and experiences it as a positive but it's not yeah bill has changed the way he looks at the world yeah just to say that he's created a context he's created an overarching narrative that allows you to contextualize

situations draw connections between things that you wouldn't have otherwise because there isn't a connection like it when you have a guy like bill who's preaching essentially this i guarantee there will be more bombs after this bombing because it was a false flag and then the prince edward island bombing happens and he's like aha i was right yeah that when you're when you are setting that kind of an example for your audience you're going to end up having the effect that is not positive yeah because it all it allows your listener to then do that and that's that's bad that that just is not good yeah there's nothing inherently wrong with it like a powerful piece of media should change the way that you view things but sure if you use that power irresponsibly and

like an asshole then it's not going to put better viewpoints in people's eyes it's going to be just like that guy who's like i've been away from my short way for a few days and i've had to consume and read thanks for the sanity bill yeah i don't read between the lines no just just watch just read yeah yeah and it's it's tough it's it's uh it's tough maybe we should get people to read the lines first and then you can try reading between the lines yeah you guys are just reading between the lines before ever bothering with the lines you can't do a kickflip until you can all wait i think that's a good call yeah so uh this last clip here from the april 20th show um i mean bill's just making stuff up there is more movement of military equipment material and vehicles in

this country today than there ever was in world war two or vietnam now you'd better start asking yourself why and what's it leading to i know the answer to that and so do some of you he's just making that up there's absolutely no way for him to know that he like he can't pack that up at all and i guarantee that's not true during world war two in vietnam more movement of military stuff in oklahoma city bombing than during the vietnam war i find that very hard to believe the only way that he could know that is if he was privy to a series of orders and shit like that because no matter what no matter what like uh a singular uh anecdotal evidence you can find that's still not going to be enough to measure the entirety of i'm guessing if you know if you're a student of history and

military history you could probably determine some sort of quantification for troop movement military movement during vietnam and world war two now i don't believe that on april 20th bill would have any reliable way to quantify the movement that was happening regarding oklahoma city and for someone like him who tries to present himself as just the fact ma'am yeah that kind of a guy you can't do stuff like that you can't just make up no that's bullshit totally i don't like that i don't like it when bill's mean to me like that uh so april 21st comes around and at this point it's become clear that timothy mcvay is the suspect do you mean uh is the false flag patsey according to bill okay um yes so the discussion of timothy mcvay and the connections to militias

right and that kind of thing has come up and it's clear and i'm going to be honest with you the 21st is not nearly as interesting of an episode it's kind of uninspired yeah in many ways and the only reason i kept i included it in this is because there is a continuation of something from the 20th yeah and because these are part of the three part series um that bill did about oklahoma city okay it's it's they're packaged together on the hour of the time sure sure sort of episode titling scheme yeah and so i didn't want to i didn't want to i'm a completist yeah i know i got you but this is not a good episode you've got all of radio heads discography i know you yeah in terms of things that are interesting there was much more in the 19th and 20th um but bill

starts out on an alarming uh tone first i have an order from the commanding general of the second continental army of the republic don't like that all militias are to remain on full alert i think that's kind of your dealers are to maintain discipline of their units every unit is to protect their leadership and under no circumstances are you to allow the militia to be broken as a result of the propaganda campaign being raged against the legitimate legal militia of the several states and of the united states of america that doesn't sound like him reading something oh boy that sounds like him coming up with uh

this on the fly yeah so when he's saying that this is a dispatch from the commanding general of the second continental army of the republic yeah i think that's him i'm pretty sure it is him i don't know what else would it be i think it's him what is this a witch finder general on top of everything what's happening it seems to me that that might be bill's title for himself but i don't know enough i tried to look into this i can't i can't make heads or tails of it it's something that i'm going to consider we'll consider this an open question whether i don't know who the commanding general is right but i have a strong suspicion is his name his middle name is milton uh could be here's my pitch to you janet rino oh shit yeah that's right she's

working both sides mind blown everybody knew it so bill's pretty mad that the militia element of this story has come up and it leads him to be in pretty strong denial bad mood well no not i mean yeah obviously he's been he's up he's in a bad mood a lot but he he's in a bit of denial and this is where i get some of that um it's unclear if it's sincere or performance-based naivete yeah because he says some things that he he there's no way you could believe this is true the only way the national rumor mongers are going to be able to promote the militia involvement rumor is by simultaneously tying it to a racist group and you heard that all day long white supremacists religious fundamentalists constitutionists patriot groups government haters

the truth is even in the backwoods hit country of oklahoma investigators are not likely to find too many groups which are both racist and patriotic in my investigations in this entire nation there are probably 500 total white supremacists period keep whoa keep looking bill keep looking oh man does that mean he knows 500 people he's investigated 501 yeah and one of them himself and he deems himself to not be a racist yeah i guess yeah man i don't know that's that's a that's the kind of thing that's like okay there again it's that no true scotsman kind of thing you can't have a group that's racist and patriotic because if you do then you're racist and not patriotic right so by definition you're not patriotic in bill's eyes right i think that

that's how he's operating and it's not really fair the idea that you would go on that you would say out loud i think there are only maybe 500 white supremacists in the entire country yeah there are 500 within a stone's throw of our place in we're in chicago i don't think i mean how far can you throw stone pretty far i was a pretty good baseball player okay then maybe i could so i would say for me no you maybe yeah i think that's really the absurdly denial yes yeah that's bad yeah so bill makes a prediction um about the nature of the person that will be arrested for this crime you can be certain that whoever is arrested will be first proclaimed a racist and later a militia connection will be fabricated or what if they're a racist and they have militia connection i don't

think that's possible obviously now but in the world where that is the case okay now bill has said to his audience that the you know the scripting of it will be that they're a racist and then they'll make up some militia connections so on the off chance that someone does get arrested who fits that mold do you know that it's just the fucking new world order scripting this in order to make the patriots look bad yeah it's very identical to alex's uh uh sort of methods and narratives surrounding people who do really terrible things yeah who happen to be a part of the self selected group for bill it's very much heavily militia for alex it's light and western right that sort of thing but it's it's the same sort of defensiveness behavior it it is it is annoying to me that they

preach this rhetoric that comes down to the government is always attacking you so self defense measures would be basically whatever it is you want to do and then at the same time being like but we would never take offensive action even though you've already said that any action is functionally self defense right it is so you should just take credit and be like this guy we're under attack from the government but then you don't want to be i think i think i think there's a recognition that most people wouldn't agree with that argument and you'd have a really tough time making it exactly yeah but at the same time the the um the narrative and that that sort of mentality has the effect that's desired and that is that some people follow through with it right and uh then

end up becoming proof that the man is trying to make the patriots look bad and it becomes this self perpetuating um image game yeah which is lame yeah so uh on the day before on the 20th uh the caller called in who said that they seismograph registered two sure uh little things yeah yeah and so apparently one of the kaji one of the intelligence sources uh went to the uh the university over in norman and uh has looked into this here's the report from day the report of two seismological events consistent with large explosions on the morning of april 19 1995 is confirmed at 1 20 p.m today for 21 95 i spoke with dr lusa of the oklahoma geological survey which is located in the sarki energy building at the university of oklahoma campus dr lusa

showed me the seismograph recordings made on that morning showing two separate seismological disturbances the first occurring at 90204 a.m and the second occurring at 90214 a.m so this is interesting because like i mentioned earlier what he's talking about is a real thing but bill's jumping to wild conclusions with it and he doesn't end up earning this narrative at all the way he's presenting things there were two events registered on the seismograph and as such this is proof that there were two explosions at the murrah building this is a simple conclusion to reach if you have a habit of not considering other possibilities which it seems like bill might not do a lot the fact that there were two waves registered on the seismograph was of interest to researchers

so they studied the phenomenon further what they ended up figuring out is that this was the result of low and high frequency signals traveling at slightly different rates the low frequency signal made it the 16 miles from the bomb site to the seismograph in norman a few seconds prior to the high frequency signal right fascinating right right when the murrah building was demolished on may 23rd researchers set up additional seismographs and found a similar pattern with the two wave signals despite there being only one controlled explosion further study has demonstrated clearly that this wave signal pattern is not proof of two explosions but bill doesn't know that when he's on air jumping to conclusions about this he's breaking one of his own cardinal rules because

it's important to him that this not be the work of someone who believes the same things as him right so he takes this and he doesn't know what it means there's no explanation that he can really provide two things two bombs you know i understand i understand why you would look at that and say that for sure but you just don't know it no so it's come out that terry nickles was involved in in some capacity and apparently if we if we are found you know what's going to be left on our shirts not that call terry nickles no don't do that um he is uh apparently uh at this point there had also been some discussion that he has some connection with the militia of michigan now bill has an easy answer for this i've told you all along that the militia of montana and others

our agent provocateurs they would fuel the flames and provide the ammunition that would be used against the legitimate militias across this nation and i was absolutely correct they are reading militia of montana material and all the other bs that some militias deal with such as racism again there's that naivete that seems to be popping up there man and i understand i mean you like there are i'm certain there are some people who are into militia stuff and some people who are into some patriot stuff who don't have that racism that's attached you know like it's i'm sure it's not universal and you know maybe there's the there's an idealistic version of it that bill feels he subscribes to and he can't imagine that anybody

else does um but it's it's i i find this ludicrous yeah i would be shocked i would be shocked if bill wasn't even a way like bill has to know if he's ever been to a militia meeting he has to know at least one guy there who's got a nazi flag like it's it doesn't matter like the history box yeah i do sure sure fucking it also raises the issue that maybe he didn't ever want to that he's oh isn't that possible maybe he's just the worst cosplayer ever i don't think that's also i'm pretty mad at the militia of michigan because it should be the militia again and they really wasted an opportunity yeah that is unfortunate nazis don't have fun dan nope so bill uh has suggested that the motive for the bombing was to get this omnibus terror bill through sure but there's a reason that oklahoma

was chosen on may 17 1994 the state of oklahoma ladies and gentlemen in their legislature passed hr 1047 hr 1047 made oklahoma the very first state in the united states to actually go on record as opposing the approaching new world order it called for the united states not to lend military personnel to support the united nations and many other things okay why it happened in oklahoma city oh boy so there are a few problems with this narrative the bills presenting here with this bill that was supposed to have been passed by the oklahoma legislature which would effectively give militia a patriot explanation for why the new world order decided to attack oklahoma of all places the first thing that's important to understand is that hr 1047 that he's talking

about is not a bill it's a house resolution resolutions that are passed are not legally binding at all and they're really just things that people introduced to express a sentiment it's like the recent thing we talked about where the san antonio city council passed a resolution denouncing the use of the term china virus exactly this resolution was introduced on march 8th 1994 not may 17th and it was put forth by a state rep named john monks it's completely it's a completely absurd proclamation about how the us needs to quote cease any support for the establishment of a new world order or any form of global government and do it's definitely paranoid and just a very weird resolution but honestly if i were bill hr 1056 works better that was a quote

resolution claiming sovereignty under the 10th amendment to the constitution of the united states over certain powers serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates and directing distribution that one's closer to bill's introduction dates and that was introed may 12th 1994 and it kind of works better for his narratives i kind of suspect that bill is just combining or confusing these two resolutions or maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about yeah i don't know those resolutions are always there's no reason to blow up a federal building because of those uh non binding non legally actionable uh uh sentiments of we don't like the new world order yeah those those are always written in such a lunatic idea that i thought you

were gonna say they're written in cram but they might as well be but at the end of them you halfway expected to be like and we don't want funding for the un and i hate my wife angela i hate you angela and we need to get rid of the new world order and the un is evil and god angela take me back like it's that kind of lunacy there is something very weird you do suspect that there's something else behind yeah maybe it's not marital strife but there's something yeah driving yeah yeah anyway in this next clip bill gets to bragging about how right he is about everything fake fake fake fake fake i'm right i've studied these socialist pukes for years and i'm right on the target i'm the only one who has consistently and with absolute accuracy predicted every step that they're going

to take listen to this anti-terrorism bill now on fast track on tuesday the omnibus counter terrorism act of 1995 was a proposal on a low track in congress and the object of a lively debate as to whether it would violate some fundamental civil liberties including the right to confront one's accuser now after the oklahoma city bombing there are few sure legislative bets in washington democrats and republicans issue a blizzard of news releases thursday calling for the bill's quick passage the gutless wonders are at it again so in his discussion about how right he is about everything he's talking about how certain of bill's passages that doesn't end up getting passed well don't worry about that he's right about everything i will not worry about that i don't i don't like

these guys who say that they can predict every move with perfect accuracy it's very alex like very alex like but that's just that suggests that you you're like that's boring like nobody wants to play chess with somebody who knows everything that you're gonna do that sucks why would you play against that it also introduces like a really interesting layer and that is maybe they're right if they're right that they're correct about everything and know all this stuff that's gonna happen the only explanation for them being wrong a bunch is because they're lying yeah so maybe they're lying to their audience that's interesting i do actually know everything exactly but when i'm wrong i was lying i was lying to you and i was lying to you for a reason

on purpose trust me on purpose good reason look i know why trump is doing it and maybe i agree with him but i do think it's wrong to suspend habeas corpus that's all i'm saying so around the time of the bombing and this is the case with just about every high-profile thing there will end up being copycat threats that are made sure sure this is a phenomenon that is unfortunate in humans but everybody yeah whenever there is something like this there'll be people who make prank calls there will be people who are trying to sew more chaos and bill thinks that that's the new world order doing that boned-in bomb threats forced temporary evacuations of federal office buildings in several cities including boston miami santa anna california birmingham alabama wilmington delaware portland

origan boy v idaho and carswell air force base in fort word texas a bomb scare also forced the evacuation of boston's city hall what did they do let all the inmates out of the nut house not on your life this is all planned to terrorize the american people to give up the bill of rights you can't prove any of that you're the guy who's mr proof you can't prove that you're just you're just saying that you think that all of these bomb threats were done by the globalists that's nonsense did you think that maybe they did let all of the people out of the asylum or do you think that it's possible that that's not necessary for one to make a threat like this yeah it maybe that's fucking teenagers who don't know any better yep like 1995 is prime prank call territory oh

yeah yeah there's before like the internet was as good as it is now for harassing people like real shit had uh the phone was still something they was part of the arsenal so i don't know anyway we have one last clip here and it's very similar to alex um but his call to action is a little bit different but i think you'll see some fairly large similarities are you going to continue to say oh nothing's going on the government wouldn't hurt us are you going to continue until you're rounded up and sent to some socialist labor camp because you don't fit in with their concept of how your mind is supposed to work in the new world order is that what it's going to take before you wake up look around you this is not the united states of america not at all

and that is not a constitutional republican government in washington dc nor in most states of the several states how many states not much time left continue to recruit for your militias continue to prepare continue to arm yourselves continue to teach your children and your neighbors the truth about the constitution the bill of rights and the principles and ideals upon which this country was based so i mean you know well you know the illegitimate government kind of thing sounds a lot like the beliefs of people who might attack the government well i mean sure it is an illegitimate government but no patriot would attack an illegitimate you satisfied all of my curiosities thank you very much see i mean like the socialists are going to take you off to a

camp is just the fema camp stuff it's all very similar but again that it only makes sense if you're saying to me that the socialists are going to take me to a camp that is going to happen i don't understand how i wouldn't get the idea that well either i can be in a camp or i can fight back or like there's no other way to view it even further if this isn't a legitimate government that we have in place why not overthrow it exactly what is what what isn't it your duty to yeah according to your belief system yeah yeah yeah it's it's uh it you like alex and him are both the same way they want this half measure they want you to believe this to get in until i guess the power struck like the power shifts or something like this i don't i don't know what the the point

is uh like from alex it's clearly making a ton of money yeah yeah for bill it doesn't seem like that's his primary thing but like the gold sale stuff you see in this episode is very much like exploitative it's it's strike well the iron's hot yeah but but he does only do one of those per episode as opposed to alex sure we'll go a little nuts yeah so like you know it's not like it's taking over his show right right right um so i don't know i i i'm i'm a bit confused as to like what exactly the point is if it's not to create some sort of a threat to the government yeah quite frankly well i don't mean you can see how successful it is even with a small scale threat you can shut down government if you just have 20 guys wearing fake body armor and fake guns sure

you know yeah we're fucked so i i took a look at this and i think it's really interesting i'm interested to see how this develops yeah but i would say that over these three days bad job just a bad job yeah not good a lot of a lot of rumors yeah two thumbs down that's my review big time and like there could be no worse time for you to fuck up like this than like in the immediate aftermath of a gigantic terrorist attack that traumatized uh the country um it's really really terrible and i think that through this prism you do see a lot more of alex in here yeah yeah in in terms of these these patterns these trends these behaviors i i think the picture becomes a bit clear as to why i i think that probably some of the other episodes we did about him

didn't really necessarily make the connection strongly enough as to why he is an important figure right within the context of our show right and i hope that some of those things were better clarified here and the better clarified that this dude sucks yeah um i just hate the cowardice so much i hate how cowardly they are because in in one sense all right you can have the courage to step up and say this is an illegitimate government and i support this terrorist attack or another instance of courage is you could step up and say i don't believe this is part of the militia movement we need to get these we need to find out where this is coming from and root it out yeah we need to do that and instead the cowardice comes in i want to be the leader of fake militia and at the

same time i don't want any consequences for the bullshit that i say it's fucking cowardice very similar to alex i hate it they're such cowards yeah it's a mess oh so as i was like getting i realized that i said something at the beginning of this episode that i didn't really explain and that is that this almost like completely got derailed and it's because i was preparing this episode and i got to last night and you know i was pretty deep into this like to the point where it's like well it's going to be tough to make another episode for when we need to get to the other to record yeah and there was that gigantic fire in la yeah i know i was so yeah i was uh like i was i was almost done getting ready yeah and then i go on twitter and i see that and i'm

like oh no no that was my first thought i thought i was a witch like i had somehow willed that into existence by focusing on bill's to response to and i was like you got to go to bed oh you've got too much power dad no you've got too much power terrifying um and the other thing i want to say just really quick before we get out of here is that um this so far has not been an all-encompassing approach or coverage of the conspiracies about oklahoma city yeah and one of the reasons is that that would be impossible number one and number two i am trying to take the same approach to this that i take with alex which is as he brings things up uh go to them yeah um and so as as the conspiracy gets denser there'll be more of the the elements like because i could see somebody

listening to this and being like what about blank right right right i assure you as as time goes along we'll we'll experience it as uh bill's audience might yeah so i think that's the way to do it yeah i think so so we'll be back uh with an alex episode next time uh but until then jordan we have a website we do have a website it's knowledge fight dot com yep we also on uh twitter we are on twitter it's that knowledge underscore fight and i go to bed jordan yep we're also on facebook we are as well down the show i choose a patreon review or you could uh please donate to a local charity in your area yes absolutely um we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm dzx clark i'm the concierge at the medallion hotel that means i'm a ghost andy in chansas

you're on the air thanks for holding so alex i'm a first-time caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you