Knowledge Fight - #497: Third Try's A Charm

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

Today, Dan and Jordan come in on their day off to see what happened when Alex Jones showed back up on Rogan's podcast. A short review: not enough Bravo.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George, knowledge fight. I need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Just time to pray. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a Mr. St. Colin. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. Knowledge fight. No, no, no, no, no, no, knowledge fight.com. I love you. Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm George. We're a couple dudes like sit around, drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are Dan. Jordan. Jordan. I have a quick question for you. What's that? What's your bright spot today? My bright spot is a very rare,

possibly unprecedented, advance bright spot. I have a bright spot that has not happened yet. Okay, but as this episode is recorded, dangerous as this episode is recorded. It hasn't happened, but on Friday when it's out, it will have happened. Pikmin three. Oh shit. Oh shit. So this is supposed to be my day off and we got called in day off got called into duty because of world circumstances and Alex Jones going on Joe Rogan's podcast fucking dick and the way I'm going to treat myself is playing Pikman later and just the image of that bright spot is enough for me. It's keeping you going. I love Pikmin. You haven't slept for two days, so you might as well play some Pikmin. I've slept a little. Come on. But yeah, I'm very much looking forward to it

because there's there's apparently like I've played Pikmin three, but apparently there's new stuff added new new puzzles and things. I'm very excited. Very well made games. A lot of fun. Cute little aliens. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Fun problem solving. You got to fix your fucking spaceship by finding bottle caps. Who doesn't love it? It's fine with me. Yeah, whatever. Anyway, what's your bright spot? You know what? I'm going to I'm going to keep going. I'm narrow. I'm going to keep going with the video game thing though. I think that's pretty common. Well, there's not much else to do. There's so much coming up. There's like Assassin's Creed Valhalla. I'm super excited for that. Oh God. I put well over 200 hours in Odyssey. There's the Calamity Age of

Calamity Zelda. Man, it's just like by the end of the year, there's just going to be too much to play. I disagree. There's going to be not enough outside to go to. There's always a lot of video games, but there aren't always a lot that are actually in like my wheelhouse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of alarming. Yeah. At the end of this year is like just full of games that I want to play kind of makes me think that we might take December off just to play video games. No, I think the world might take December onward. Oh, that'll be the best Christmas gift in the world. It's a sign of Armageddon that a lot of games that I like are coming up. Hey, whenever the my Cubs won the World Series, we immediately got Trump. So there we go. If they you and I

cannot enjoy things if they announce like in the next month or so that there's a new Donkey Kong country game, get a bunker. Because it's over with a new system. Yeah. I'm sorry. Anyways, mine is actually retro. About 20 years ago, there was this like turn based strategy game like civilization called Master of Magic. And I used to play that with my childhood friend like obsessively. Yeah. And that was of course 20 years ago. What I found out recently though is like 10 years ago, somebody who also loved that game made a mod for civilization for so I got everything set up and it's fucking perfect. It is exactly the experiences that I wanted 20 years ago and it is nailing it. This is all 15 year old shit. That's awesome. But I've got it on my old computer and it runs

perfectly and it makes me feel so good like nostalgia all the way. I'm very happy for you. This would be like if I got, I don't know, returned to Zork. Missed? Sure. Why not? Riven. Riven. No one beat Riven. Set in. It's a mod for Fallout 4. Right. Yeah. Anyway, Jordan, today we've got a lot to go over. And I gotta be honest, Jordan. Listen, I need to talk to you. A little lightheaded. All right. I'm gonna go get some apple juice. And I'm gonna pray to Jesus. We've got some in here. Listen, listen, I need to talk to you. I need to talk to you. Jordan, I need to talk to you. Oh boy. Oh boy. About Alex Jones going on. This is going to be a lot of apple juice and screaming. I need to talk to you. I will say

that Alex does drink about half a bottle of whiskey by the end of this. Now that would sound right. Yeah. How many hours is it? Three hours and 11 minutes. Half a bottle in three hours and in honor of Alex's favorite band, 311. Three hours and 11 minutes. That's fun. Yeah. That's fun. They're satanic, man. That's awful. Peanut and 311 evil. Yeah. Yeah. So they went about three hours and Alex is credit. I've seen him way drunker. Like it's not. But the end is really depressing. The end of this episode is incredibly fucked up and pressing. Yeah. But you know, there's some fun stuff along the way. I'm going to finally get to admit it. I killed those dogs. I punched a dog in the face. Nope. That was our last episode. Yeah. That was our last episode.

I'm going to say that I think that Joe Rogan tries. Sure. However, I don't think he's committed to what he's pretending to do, which is holding Alex Jones to account for claims that he makes. Sure. And I also would say that there is literally no way to do an interview like this responsibly. Right. You just can't do it. And I think it's demonstrated by the fact that Joe Rogan is presumably trying. Yeah. And it fails so miserably. Yeah. This sucks. No. He failed miserably and unforgivably when he booked Alex again. Yeah. We didn't even need the show. True. True. And the whole premise of like, you're my friend. I think you're fun. Right. Like, is this fun? Yeah. We'll see if this seems fun. Oh boy. I apologize. I've been working

around the clock to get this episode ready to put out and I forgot to grab some names for shout out. So we'll do double on the next episode. Today's my day off. To all of you out there who support the show, we really appreciate it. And you're all policy wise. Very much so. I'm a policy one. Everyone to hear that drop. So Jordan, today it is what it is. Here's not a context drop from today's show. You want to why I'm so crazy? No, I love that. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. No, no, I do not, sir. Yeah, not interested. If you start, you're not going to stop. So no. So I generally have watched Rogan's show on YouTube because it's there. Sure. And I decided that this time I was going to download the audio, the podcast, and that way I could just have the audio

version in case anything happened to it. Like maybe it mysteriously disappears from Spotify. It could have happened. But apparently since that has happened, it's gotten back up on Spotify. Oh, okay. And Rogan claims that there was a tech glitch. Sure. I don't know what's going on. Whatever. Don't care. Fine. It's a tech glitch. Don't care. But one thing I didn't realize is that Rogan does ads. Hello, friends. Welcome to the show. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by whoop. So whoop. Congratulations on being associated with this whoop and Alex Jones. Yeah, I thought that was surprising because there's, you know, there's an ad at the beginning of this episode. That's a little bit weird. But then it kept going. We're also brought to you by

the motherfucking cash app. This is funny that there's a cash app ad on this episode, since cash app is owned by Square, which was co-founded and currently owned by Jack Dorsey, the head of Twitter, who's Alex's mortal enemy. Even funnier when you realize that Square's director and also co-founder is Jim McKelvie, who is also on the board of directors for the Federal Reserve Bank in St. Louis. This Joe Rogan shows up to its eyeballs in globalist money. God damn it. God damn it. They're taking globalist money. You can't find our corporate overlords. There's no space. There's no space free of them. It's all corporate overlord. They're paying off Rogan. Oh man. So there's another ad. Oh god. We're also brought to you by Squarespace.

Squarespace is the host of my website, JoeRogan.com. Nothing gets Squarespace. They pretty much advertise on all podcasts or whatever. All podcasts. Yeah. They seem to have that niche down. Yeah. Them and what? Sheets. Sheets are everywhere. Stamps.com. The various mattresses and boxes. Oh, you can get a mattress any podcast. Yeah. And then there's- I love. Can I just say real quick, I love that we don't do ads. Yeah, me too. We're poor and we're going to die that way. But fair enough. God, it's so much better than doing ads. Yeah. Whoop. Fuck off. And then there's another ad. We're also brought to you by Tushy. Tushy is a bidet that shoots water on your butt, a sleek bidet attachment that clips on to your existing toilet. He's selling bidet

attachments. You know, that sold it. Yeah. I wasn't going to get a bidet, but now that Joe Rogan has said you attach it to your toilet and it sprays water up your ass. Joe, you sold me. Yeah. I mean, look, I think it's remarkable that Joe Rogan's doing ads. Like he's the biggest podcast in the world. Yeah. He has all kinds of revenue streams. He doesn't need to do this. I imagine maybe it's partially, I don't know. You know, it's making so much money off this. We live in a world. You and I. Ten minutes of ads. You and I. You and I live in a world where we didn't need, you know, if we had a hundred million dollars, we wouldn't do ads. Period. I don't know. I don't think we'd do the show. Do something. Yeah. We would do something. Maybe

talk about Joe Rogan's podcast. Tool around on a boat talking about Joe Rogan's podcast. Yeah. But it's just one of those things. Like there's no end to capitalism. You know, it's always, hey, just because you're making enough money doesn't mean you couldn't be making more money, Dan. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not criticizing that. I'm not hating the hustle or anything. No, no, no, the hustle is what it is. I'm just saying that this was surprising to me because I didn't think this was the way that his show operated because I've only watched it on YouTube. Yeah. And these ads are not on the YouTube version. So I thought that is a little bit strange and also Tushy Squarespace, Cash App and who should know that they're associated with everything that comes

up later and they should be proud of themselves. Oh boy. So here's the first clip that is not an ad and it's Joe Rogan welcoming his producer, Jamie, back to the show. Young Jamie, back in the fucking saddle. How are you feeling? Very well. Thank you. COVID free, four days in a row now. I've kicked it. What? Now, you still can't taste anything? Well, I started to come back today, but yeah, like 5% taste. Yeah, it's got to be pickle juice. Doesn't even taste like anything. Really? It just tastes like water? Whoa. Very weird. But you don't have any residual symptoms? Nothing wrong? Good. Can breathe everything. Yeah. Good to see you back buddy. No residual symptoms,

except for I can't taste pickle juice. Oh man. Man. Man. Man. People are crazy. People are fucking crazy. I don't want to be too judgmental, but the idea that this show is happening at all is nuts. On October 19th, it was reported in Forbes that quote popular podcast, the Joe Rogan experience has temporarily been struck down by the coronavirus after a key member of Rogan's team tested positive for COVID-19. Obviously, I can't possibly be privy to the kind of precautions and such that they take or whether or not the announcement on the 19th was delayed from when Jamie got the positive diagnosis, but it absolutely blows my mind that they would think it's a great idea to have people sitting in a confined space for hours talking and

drinking when one of them recently had COVID. I understand that the Rogan podcast is big business and these tushy ads got to go somewhere. And if he doesn't put out the episodes, you know, that revenue stream might be hindered a little bit. But doing this seems a little irresponsible. If not for their own sake, then for the message that it sends to the audience about how not seriously they're taking these things. Yeah, look, you're four days free, right? That means that we're all safe. And you kicked it in a day. Oh God. You can't taste pickles. One of these stronger tastes. I need to just start carrying around more fruits to throw. Like that's if I saw Joe Rogan anywhere, it's a tomato to the face. As soon as I can, as soon as I can unleash it,

I'm going to promise you this. Sure. I'm growing some tomatoes. Okay. You are growing tomatoes. Farm to face. I'm going to have a satchel. I'm going to pick tomatoes every, every show. We're going to make this happen. I'm going to toss them. So here, Alex gets introduced and he is a nerve failed. He's full of nerves. Okay. Alex Jones. This is the most anticipated thing I ever did. I've probably had no exaggeration. Two or 3000 people last year and a half asked me, when are you going back on Joe Rogan? And I'm always saying, I don't know. I don't know. And then I learned you were moving here like three, four months ago and now we're here and this is, this is exciting. I don't get butterflies anymore, but I actually have them here. And this is,

this is great. It's good to have butterflies after about 20 years. Didn't get the last two times I was on. Didn't get it when I interviewed Trump. Didn't get in a lot of things, but I've got butterflies here today. I got butterflies. Fucking lying piece of shit. Totally. You fucking you even said to Trump, I've got butterflies right now. Fuck you. Yeah. You lying piece of shit. Well, I mean, all of these guys, like one of the things that they, they're sort of their primary way they operate is to flatter each other in ways that ingratiate themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Like when we go on other people's podcasts and they're like, I totally love now this fight. And you're like, this podcast is seven hours long. There's no way. Nice of you to say

so. Yeah. Yeah. You're very kind. That's great. But come on, man. I don't expect anybody to have time to listen to this. So in the past, whenever Alex has been on Rogan's podcast, he's been accompanied by one Eddie Bravo. Yes. Who is a goofy, kind of fun. He brings some levity to things. He's a little bit of a space weirdo. I like it. Flat earth. Yeah. A little bit real dumb, real dumb, but he's a good dude. Also seems to have a charm to him that kind of softs the edges of whenever Alex and Joe Rogan are sitting there having a stupid conversation. Yeah. This time Eddie is not there. However, there is a third participant and that is comedian Tim Dylan who is a comedian. Do we know him? We have some mutual friends. Yeah. Okay. I don't know if I've

ever met him. I think, well, I don't want to meet him anymore. I feel like we might have crossed paths when I was in New York visiting, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't want to say that because it sounds like I'm like, Oh, I know this guy. I don't know. I do know that there are some circles that overlap. Yeah. I think I remember the name and it's either because he was at Zany's one time whenever I was there. Could have been. Maybe just hanging out or something. Yeah. He's a fairly successful comedian. He's pretty good. And from what I understand, like, I think the only memory that I have of him is people I know telling me he's a nice guy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. He's not Eddie Bravo. I will say that he is not as fun as Eddie

Bravo. Shit. And as a third wheel, it's weird. Also, there's another dynamic that's going on and that is that Joe Rogan is currently doing sober October. Alex is drinking quote unquote apple juice. Sure. And Tim doesn't drink. So he's high as hell. Okay. All right. So we got a sampling of the different states of mind that we might see at any given point in time on the Rogan show. Gotcha. Man, do they mix well? Yeah. You know what never works? Somebody who's only drunk, hanging out with somebody who's only high. Yeah, it doesn't happen. So Tim is in there and he's wearing a shirt because he wants to be funny. And it says free G lane. Okay. Well, now I don't like him. Yeah, I got my free G lane shirt because I believe all women. Is that how you say it? It's

I think so. Yeah. I thought it was G lane. I thought it was G lane. G lane. It's G lane. Do you know? Look at me. No, I'm G lane. It's G lane. G lane. This is taking a while. Yeah. Her father was a famous MI six massage spy that reportedly used sex operatives to control people. He died being thrown off a yacht in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. So is that true? Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, part of it. Okay. But Alex has absolutely no idea that he's mispronouncing G lane's name. Of course not. He has the confidence of a man who's wrong, doesn't care that he's wrong and doesn't plan on caring soon. G lane Maxwell's father was named Robert Maxwell and I'd love for Alex to try to prove any of the things that he's saying about that dude. What we do know is that

he died after falling off his yacht in the Canary Islands back in 1991. However, Alex is trying to imply that this was a murder and that's not substantiated at all. The two leading theories are an accident or suicide. The rationale for the suicide theory is fairly convincing. Prior to his death, Robert Maxwell was a huge name in the print industry publishing the Daily Mirror Sunday Mirror New York Daily News just to name a few of his entities. When he died, it was a huge shock and people remembered him fondly with glowing obituaries. A month later, a different story would come to the surface. As it turned out, Maxwell was deeply in debt and in order to keep his creditors at bay while maintaining his luxurious lifestyle, he'd stolen from his employee's

pension fund. After his death, it was discovered that 460 million pounds had disappeared. And just like that, the fond memories turned very sour. Oh, shit, that's where they got the bit from the IT crowd. That's where that bit originates from. I guarantee it. That's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. The boss is like the cop show up at his door and his secretary comes in and she's like, the cops are here. They want to talk to you about the pension fund. And he just like, okay, that sounds good. And he walks over to the window, opens it up and just jumps out. I mean, I think that might also just be like kind of a thing you imagine business people doing. It could be the hud sucker proxy too. You know, after his death, various conspiracy theories

have popped up, but Alex couldn't prove any of the stuff that he's suggesting on this episode. There's no evidence that he was murdered. And there's good reason to suspect his death could have been due to his own actions or due to an accident. There's no evidence that he was a spy and the proof offered is that he was an Israeli agent is pretty weak. Basically, it's just the fact that his funeral took place in Israel and was attended by then prime minister and president of the country. Gotcha. That's not too weird, given that he was a Jewish man who had escaped Nazi occupation as a youth and was a lifelong friend and supporter of the state of Israel. Wow, that could be. I've read some articles that try to make the argument that Maxwell was a spy,

but none of them are even close to conclusive. And even these posts have to call him a quote alleged spy. There was a book called Robert Maxwell Israel's super spy that claims that he was a super spy. But the reviews of this thing are not great. Oh, no, quote intriguing, if somewhat overreaching quote at times hard to believe. What a what a very nice euphemism is full of shit. A review by Michael Packenham and the Baltimore Sun puts things into somewhat of a perspective. The authors of the book are quote one man book factories with 56 previous books released between the two of them kind of get the sense that they just crank shit out. Damn it. I am shitty at this. You're 55 behind that pair. Packenham says quote this is a big and ambitious

book probably too big. I found it finally flawed by excess by exaggeration of narration and more fatally of conclusions that are und overdrawn insufficiently elaborated or substantiated. He later says quote this amalgam of fact and insinuation converging without distinction suggests coining a new category of pros. How about Info Endo? It can be totally possible that Robert Maxwell was secretly a spy, but it's important to stress that Alex Jones absolutely cannot substantiate or back up the two main claims that he has here to open the show that Gillian Maxwell's father was a spy and that he was murdered when he fell off that yacht. Sure. If you were pushed on either of these points, you would immediately have to retreat into saying

things like come on and it's been declassified that kind of shit. The idea that he's now making Guillain's horrific crimes like a family business like yeah her dad trafficked underage girls too. It's just the Maxwell's just do it is so fucking stupid. Well it's the sort of thing that like I think that if you want to introduce that as I thought I'm not going to like I'm not going to critique you for spitballing like you Robert Maxwell was a really influential powerful person. Sure. But at the same time I'm going to demand that you have a certain amount of evidence to back up your claims. Well you would think it's important. Yeah and I just find the evidence of these claims lacking and so I don't know I do think it's a little bit dumb. I like

I like how book reviewers just have to be smart. Let's see I think we'll invent a new genre of literature. Info window. They have to be pretty opposed to just being like man this is bullshit. This isn't a new genre. This is just an asshole talking shit. They have to be diplomatic too. Yeah. I think they're Venn diagram of book reviewers and aspiring authors or authors might be very small. So Rogan gets to talking about how Alex told him about Epstein like way back. Sure. And this is where like things kind of went off the rails for me in terms of like goddamn this episode is going to be so long. Oh no. You were telling me about Epstein and this island years ago. You were telling me long before anybody. I think you told me about him before his first

arrest. A long time ago I talked about how they have these islands they fly they compromise children but I learned all this from Ted Gunderson 20 plus years ago. He was in line to be the FBI director. He was the head of the FBI in Los Angeles. He was a very famous FBI agent. He even ran Co until pro it's a civil rights movement. He apologized for that before he died in 2011. He came out and he was the one that explained to me about how they use these these black mill rings elements the CIA and foreign intelligence groups and how they would basically make people have sex with children to be part of these clubs and these cults they were setting up. So I knew about all this from Ted Gunderson. So Alex knew all this about Ted from

Ted Gunderson. Sure. With all due respect I kind of have to suspect that Joe Rogan's memory is a little screwy here. Searches on Prison Planet and Infos don't really show much of an awareness of Epstein prior to the mainstream news covering the story so I kind of feel like Rogan might be conflating things. Yeah. Thinking of something else Alex ranted about and being like that's what you talked about man. Any any of the I would almost guarantee with Joe on this show it's like anything that sounds like it did eventually happen. He's going to be like he probably told me before. He predicted that way before especially considering you're talking about like 20 year old conversations or you were probably stoned out of your mind. No shit. Like I don't trust I

don't trust the recall there. No absolutely not. Now as for Alex saying that he heard all this stuff from Ted Gunderson I'm going to go ahead and say I believe that Ted Gunderson was a long-serving FBI agent retiring in 1979 after a 27 year career during which time he actually was in charge of multiple city's offices including Los Angeles Alex is not making that up. After he retired he decided to continue as a freelance investigator and that's where things went completely off the rails for him. Sounds right. In the 1980s the United States experienced its last completely out of control satanic panic and one of the more hysterical events in it was the McMartin preschool trial. I don't want to get too much into detail about that but the broad outline is this. There was a

preschool in California run by the it was founded by Virginia McMartin and run by some relatives. A parent of one of the children who attended the school who was also a severe alcoholic and paranoid schizophrenic made some claims against teachers at the school which ranged from sexual abuse torture to things that border on magic like one of them could fly. This mother quote wrote a letter admitting that she didn't know fantasy from reality which was weirdly hidden from the defendants in the eventual trial. In the process of investigating these allegations police sent out a letter to parents of other students at that school that was incredibly poorly written and in hindsight almost designed to prompt a panic. They said that this assistant

at the school Ray Buckley was under investigation for molestation and encouraged parents to question their children about sexual acts. It's hard to imagine being a parent and reading the following line and not being terrified. Quote also photos may have been taken of children without their clothing. Any information from your child regarding having ever observed Ray Buckley to leave a classroom alone with a child during any nap period or if they had ever observed Ray Buckley tie up a child is important. Naturally parental concern can go awry and thus a bunch of new claims were made though ultimately no evidence of anything was ever found. Of course not. There are many that believe that the case would never have made it to the headlines or even very far

into the investigation were it not for timing and politics. In 1984 LA district attorney Robert Philibosian was in a very close race for reelection to a post he had not initially won. He'd been appointed district attorney after his predecessor had been elected attorney general general of the state of California. In the course of his campaign Philibosian made a big deal of the McMartin case. From a 1990 article in the LA Times quote when the McMartin preschool indictments were first issued in March 1984 then district attorney Robert Philibosian facing a tough electoral challenge from Reiner tried to exploit the case. During pre-trial hearings he sat at the side of the prosecutors in court a practice not seen in at least 15 years. During recesses

Philibosian conducted hallway press conferences to grab some headlines. Just before the primary Philibosian added 92 counts on top of the already existing 115 and increased the number of alleged victims from 18 to 42. Robert Philibosian lost his run for the DA office but the damage had been done and by the time his successor Ira Reiner took over the case was too big for it to just go away. There were allegations of ritualistic abuse against a ton of kids which was now the biggest story in the country which is a problem. Seven people were ultimately arrested and indicted for these alleged crimes including Buckley his mother and his sister as well as three teachers at the school. All charges were dropped against five of them before the case went to trial leaving

only Ray Buckley and his mother Peggy as co-defendants. This was the longest and most expensive trial in US history ultimately ending up with almost 30 months of testimony and over two months of jury deliberations. In the end Peggy was acquitted of all charges and the jury was deadlocked on 13 of the charges against Ray with the four person of the jury explaining quote the interview tapes were too biased too leading that's the main crux of it. Ray Buckley would go on to be retried coincidentally around the time when Ira Reiner was attempting to run for the office of California Attorney General and again they would fail to reach a conviction. The state decided not to try Ray again and all charges were dismissed. The entire affair was a disgrace and the pain it

caused is almost unimaginable from the employees of the school whose lives were ruined to the children who were terrorized by the media attention in almost comically long trial. 15 million dollars in taxpayer money was spent to ultimately achieve nothing other than leave emotional scars. Though it's easy to see some of the political motivations for the prosecution the ability for it to get there only really happened because of a couple specific people. One of them was a therapist named Key McFarland. McFarland worked at the Children's Institute International and was in charge of questioning the children who responded to the sensational letter from the police. This was not well done. Quote video tapes of the interviews also showed that McFarland and other therapists

relied heavily on leading questions and subtle pressure to persuade children to join the chorus of accusers. The defense played tapes that showed therapist Sean Connerly telling child interviewees that 183 kids had already revealed quote yucky secrets and that all the McMartin teachers were quote sick in the head and deserve to be beaten up. The way she went about her work became an issue at the trial and quote outside of the presence of the jury Judge Pounders declared quote in my view her credibility is becoming more of an issue as she testifies here. She was not even called as a witness for the prosecution in the second trial. Oh that's great. Yeah. McFarland style of questioning led to children making sensational claims like ritualistic animal

sacrifice, secret torture rooms only accessible by tunnels, people flying. Some might suggest that allegations of underground rooms were the results of being asked by the therapists using devil puppets quote. If they find a secret room, what do you think they'll find? That implies to a child that you're interviewing the existence of a secret room already is a secret right. Very suggestible leading questions. The ensuing claims of underground rooms and tunnels would need to be investigated and you can probably already guess the independent investigator who got called in for that job went underneath the Getty and found all the Nazis. No Ted Gunderson. Oh, that's what happened. Yeah. That's how we get loop this back into Alex. Alright, I can't say for certain what he was up to or

why any of this happened. But by this point, Ted Gunderson clearly had lost his mind. He was an independent investigator, but he wasn't the only one investigating this case. It would be an understatement to say that his report on the matter doesn't match what anyone else has found. That's unsurprising. For one, Ted claimed that he'd found a 45 foot tunnel that had nine foot wide entrances under Ray Buckley's classroom. That's pretty fucking huge. And that's not the sort of thing that other people would miss. You could see that you could knock on the fucking floor and hear a giant hollow fucking room underneath it if it's that big. Strangely, no one but Ted has evidence of these hand dug tunnels that apparently claim contained quote

over 100 animal bones and quote a small white plastic plate with three pentagrams hand drawn on top. Those are very easy to find. If they're in the giant nine foot by nine foot tunnel underneath a classroom, well, animals are also easy to find on this property that previously was a garbage dump. Sure. Sure. Whatever. Yeah. Anyway, and also in his report, he has a picture of this plate that has the pentagrams. They're just stars. I don't know. They're not like in a circle. There's nothing overly. Are they made of macaroni? Was it from the actual class? I don't know. So Gunderson wasn't actually the only person who found this evidence. Sure. Sure. Sure. He also had an archaeologist named a Gary Stickel commissioned to do a very rushed archaeological

assessment of the school looking for these fabled tunnels. This work took place in 1990 around when the second trial was going on. But the DA's office told them even before they began their dig that they quote would not consider using any additional data from their work. It was legally pointless. Oh, great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Did he find evidence of angels? Is that what he found as a great archaeologist? I read Stickel's archaeological report and it's very difficult to pretend this is a professional unbiased work. It's full of conjecture about coverups and conspiracy as well as many topics that are far outside the scope of archaeological evidence. By the time Stickel went to work, there had already been an official investigation. Sure.

And by March 1985, some of the parents had carried out an unprofessional digging expedition of their own, which had turned up nothing. The site that Stickel had to work on was completely disrupted and contaminated. If you read his own report, it's full of problems like how earlier parents had dug up a 15 foot hole looking for an entrance to a tunnel, which was this this hole that they dug 15 feet down was three feet by three feet. And they ended up finding nothing. And that quote, this is from his report, quote, due to the lack of qualifications and experience, any possible entrance to a tunnel could have been obscured by haphazard digging. What? That tunnel is too big to obscure with haphazard, haphazard digging would probably reveal it faster than it seems like it

might. If this report fall down a hole at any point in time. Yeah. If this report is anything, it's long. Researchers who have compared Stickel's report to the official investigation have noted a number of notable errors and omissions in Stickel's report. Like the fact that there is quote, no mention of the fact that the area of the side lot was used as a trash dump prior to 1942. Sure. This would go a long way towards explaining some of the artifacts that Stickel's report pretends are suspicious. Stickel claims that his use of ground penetrating radar showed the existence of a 50 foot tunnel. Sure. But weirdly, the company he contracted to do the work, which is called Spectrum said quote, no evidence was found to support the existence of filled in underground

or sorry, below ground tunnels. So he basically did his own ghost hunter show where he's just walking around going like, I feel it. I feel this is where it's happening. Yeah. He might as well. It's outrageous. Yeah. There are clear instances of Stickel fudging details to reach the conclusion that normal things he found while digging around the site already contaminated by previous amateur digs and already investigated by professionals were in fact proof of secret underground tunnels and torture rooms. He produced this report. Ted Gunderson used it to prove to the world, although there was no evidence and the trials were embarrassing. This was in fact the site of satanic abuse. Dan, I imagine you and I being back in the satanic panic would be experiencing

almost exactly the same feeling that we are right now where it's just like you stick your head out and you look around and everyone is insane. And you're just like, I don't say they're overlaps. There isn't the literal Christian devil isn't there. There are overlaps. Oh God. So from this point, Ted Gunderson became an all star in the world of extreme right wing conspiracy theorists spouting nonsense as an expert on the insidious world of satanism that is hiding right in plain sight and in that tunnel over there. The fact that no one was convicted and no one believed his supposed evidence is only further proof of just how deeply rooted the satanic conspiracy is. This became Ted's niche and he was the go to expert for zealots to have around to

lead credibility to their nonsense demon claims based on the illusion that he has ever produced anything worthwhile. This is how Ted's path must have crossed with Alex's. I guess at some point Ted told Alex some crazy stuff, which I guess is now the basis for Alex's career, as opposed to him just being against the world government and private banks. To be perfectly blunt, his flawed work on this case has allowed it to not exist as a cautionary tale for some people, but as an actual proven satanic conspiracy. In many ways, the satanic panic that we're going through right now and may not survive is in some part thanks to Ted's bullshit and Alex carrying on his legacy. Oh, and as if that weren't messy enough,

it later came out that Ted Gunderson was involved with Jackie McGaulay, a parent of one of the students at McMartin preschool who was super involved in the amateur excavation efforts. Kinda biased, Ted. Fucking god. Do you know the only time the FBI produces anything good is when it's in a movie. In real life, the FBI is wall-to-wall garbage always. I mean, I would disagree with that because of so much stuff that just you don't ever hear about. Sure. They're pretty decent at record keeping about a lot of stuff you can find in the FBI vaults is shockingly well kept records of interviews and things. They seem to be good at paperwork. Sure, I believe that. A lot of admin, they seem to be pretty good.

I see now that's where they hire good people. The problem is they hire bad people for all the other positions. I also believe that Ted Gunderson may have been an effective FBI agent at some point during those 27 years. I imagine Hoover might have been an effective FBI agent at one point in time or another. Well, that's something that's kind of difficult is like some people do not thrive outside of supervision. Like some people who could be a good agent with a boss or within a structure can't operate as independent because they get an idea and then they want to prove that idea and they don't have the restraints of oversight, let's say, that keep them in check. And looking at Ted Gunderson, that's kind of the way I feel about it.

Like, yeah, he wasn't proving a satanic conspiracy when he was in the FBI because he had a boss. Yeah. Yeah. And not because the boss was stopping him from finding the truth, but because those instincts to allow unproven shit to be felt as if it was proven were reigned in. Hey, take this to the president. And I just need his sign off on this. I want to put all of the FBI's resources into investigating whether or not ghosts exist. Please tell the president that. And then once he gives me that signature, then I'll be able to get started. What he said, no, why? I don't understand. Uh-huh. Back to drug running. Is that what you want me to? Drugs should be legal. Ghost should be illegal. Yeah. Band ghosts. Band ghosts. You're fired.

All right. Private investigation. It is, sir. I don't know. It just feels like Occam's razor makes that a simpler explanation to understand than the world is run by satanic human trafficking groups that all communicate with each other and there's no evidence of any of this. And right. I don't know. It's just, it's a bit much. Could be. So, at this point, Rogan starts complaining about Borat. He does seem to like Sasha Baron Cohen, but he has some problems. He thinks they did Rudy dirty. Why? This, uh, the Borat movie, where they try to set Giuliani up. Yeah. If you haven't seen it, it's very disappointing. Because they set him up. I saw it. Yeah. They did set him up, but nothing happened. They made

it look like Giuliani was jerking off in front of this girl. He was taking his mic off. He would have to be the biggest savage on earth to jerk off in that situation. Uh-huh, Joe. And they also said that he inappropriately touched her back. When he touched her back, I am not exaggerating. He was like this. Right? It was a couple of light taps on the back. While she was close to him, taking off his mic thing, he goes, oh, thank you very much, dear. Yeah. You might not want to like minimize that behavior because even that is a little, it's dodgy. Don't touch a 15-year-old ever. Especially if you're Rudy fucking Giuliani. Exactly. Go home. Yeah. You're Rudy Giuliani. Go home. Yeah. Stay there and lock the doors from the outside. Yeah. It's a little bit,

it seems like, hey, buddy, this is a position you don't need to take. What is it? This seems unnecessary. These dudes have to be like, it's okay for dudes to touch women. They just have to be like that. It's like part of their fucking life view. I don't understand the impulse to defend Rudy Giuliani from being alone in a hotel room with someone that he thinks is 15 and touching her on the side, like around the ribs. Like that is not okay. Not least of which, not least of which, here's my other big problem. He didn't even do anything because they had to stop him. Wow. Because they had to stop him from doing stuff. Debatable but probable. I don't know. I think that that's a harder argument to have than one where it's like, all right, why is it such a

hard thing to just say, don't do, like the circumstances that Rudy was in or circumstances you should never find yourself in. It's not like, don't excuse the touching of this person when he should not have been there to begin with. 100% this, if this were the trap that they set was the existence of this. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He chose what happened after that is gravy. He could have just given an interview, right? The end in a professional setting. Totally anything like that. It would have been totally fine. And you know, hey, sometimes there are like somebody who's 15 and maybe you want to help them out on their path of conservative pundit ship or whatever. There's an appropriate way to do that. And there's an inappropriate way to do

that from everything I can tell about this. Yeah. The joke or whatever the setup is a completely inappropriate setting for this to happen. And then let's see what happens. So like, like I said, man, Rogan seems to want to be clear that he does like Sasha Baron Cohen's comedy, but also it's totally cool what Rudy was doing. Jesus. I fucking love Sasha Baron Cohen's comedy genius. I think he's brilliant. I think he's amazing. But his interpretation of what happened in the room with Rudy Giuliani, it's not accurate in my opinion. Well, listen, I mean, in who is America, he's tapping her while she's touching him and removing his mic. He does this little tap on her waist, but it's not creepy. It's like an old man to you. Tap, tap, tap. Right. Right. That is

creepy. In your opinion, that's not creepy. In mine, it's super super duper creepy. So here's where we have found an impasse. And then your example, it's like an old man touching you. Yeah, that's super creepy. Yeah. Old men are super creepy and gross. Yeah, especially when there's an intrinsic like super power imbalance, America's mayor, lawyer of the president, aspiring allegedly 15 year old conservative journalist. Yeah, like there is a very serious responsibility of behavior that you have to uphold in those sorts of circumstances. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you, man. This is just nonsense. Lois Lane was already an intrepid reporter. If Lois Lane was 15 Dayton Superman, that's fucked up. That's a serious power imbalance, especially if Superman used to be the mayor of

New York during 9 11. 9 11 was a huge celebrity was the lawyer to the current president. Yeah, and then lost his for a while and was like 70. Yeah, it was a noted creep. Super creep. Yeah, Jesus. So there's an elephant in the room and it's not that Alex has constantly lashed out at Joe on his own show. Yeah, why would that be sneaky snake and all kinds of other things. Don't worry about that. It's that people have criticized Joe for having Alex on his show. I'm so sorry. Right. And Rogan's got a philosophy. People have criticized me for being friends with you and for talking to you. And they also criticized me for not supporting a lot of these people that got banned and deep platform. My take on it has always been the best way to counter wrong speech

is correct speech. Right. When someone says something that's wrong, someone says a conspiracy theory that's not accurate. The best way to counter that is is to do better speech to have people say the accurate information. I'm unequipped to debate the point of whether or not quote correct speech is the answer to bad speech. That could get a little philosophical and I don't really know what the answer is. So for the purposes of what I'm about to say, let's stipulate that Joe is right and that the answer to people who are malicious con artists, liars and frauds is to have them come on your very popular show so you can engage in correct speech. Even if that's the case, then I suggest that Joe Rogan is not ready or capable of having a

correct speech with Alex Jones. We're less than 10 minutes into this episode and already Joe has allowed Alex to assert that Robert Maxwell was a British and Israeli spy who was murdered on his yacht and that Ted Gunderson revealed real proof of satanic pedophile cabals. Those are two massive instances of bad speech that Joe's just allowed Alex to present his undisputed fact with no attempts to bring up correct speech to correct it. There was no follow up of something like, how do you know Maxwell was a spy or why don't you tell our audience more about who Ted Gunderson is. The reality is with a conversation like this where you're you just want to have fun with your alleged friend Alex Jones, that's never going to be something you can engage in publicly responsibly

because he is a compulsive liar and you don't want to grind the show to a halt to fact check every piece of bullshit that comes out of his mouth. It only makes matters worse when Rogan in that 10 minutes has also repeatedly asserted that it's no big deal that Rudy Giuliani touched the waist of a girl he believed to be 15 in a hotel robe while he was trying to get her personal contact information. This is an outrageous kind of behavior where they're trying to argue that everything is fine because Rudy wasn't actually jerking off while they just pretend that the entire context of him having a drink in a hotel room with a girl that believes to be 15, whatever, doesn't matter, sure. Joe Rogan, due to his own blind spots and his strange insistence on pretending

Alex is actually his friend when he is clearly not, is Joe's incapable of engaging in this conversation in a way that would effectively be the kind of corrective speech he imagines that he's engaged in. He's being used by Alex and the more this happens the less I'm able to pretend that he's not a willing participant in it. Nah, fuck him. Yeah, the illusion is kind of, it's hard to swallow at this point. I would even argue stipulating that he was right is a terrible idea, like what we've discovered. Just for the sake of following the thought. It's just his take is so fucking stupid. We've even seen like, okay, here's what we've seen. When the left tries tolerance of the intolerant, the intolerant take over and start killing people. True. And when we

de-platform people, all of a sudden they don't have as much power to take over and kill us all. Yes, that is true. I'm not entirely sure that that entire dynamic works the same way with speech, but sure, sure, sure. What they are categorizing as speech is an insanely broad topic that's very difficult to parse the differences between like, oh, I disagree with you about something like text policy or I'm lying. Yeah, yeah. I'm intentionally trying to mislead people about things for political gain. Yeah, those are both speech, presumably, but I think that the way you would engage with them are different. Yeah. Now, beyond that, I don't know if his take is stupid because I don't know. There may be a way in which corrective types of speech are the answer

to the things like maybe it is. I don't know. I'm not convinced that it is even though I do a show about it. Sure. I'm not sure that our show is the answer to Alex at anyway. Sure. I don't know. I think it's that's a question for bigger minds than mine. Right. The only thing that I'm saying when I say I'm stipulating that he's right is that otherwise I couldn't point out that he still can't do that. Sure. Of course. Even if he's right, he can't do that. Perfect circumstances. He still fails. Yes. Yeah. As we said before, he even had Alex on the show. Yeah. Conceptually, your plan sucks. Yeah. Maybe the hardest nose reporter in the world could handle that kind of an interview responsibly with Alex. I'm not even I'm not even shitting on Joe in the sense

of like, I could do it. Yeah. I don't think I could. I would have walked out of this thing long before the three hour 11 minute mark. I mean, Bob Woodward would have released the tape six months after Alex had already killed a few hundred thousand people, but you know, he's nice. Well, but I mean, that takes a while to get the bindings. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. The tapes. Yeah. Look, dude, the issue is the censoring slippery slope. When you start censoring people, the problem is it's a fucking slippery slope. And there's a reason why we've been so steadfast in supporting the First Amendment in this country. And people think it doesn't apply to tech because these tech institutes are private businesses, and they should be able to do whatever they want

with their private business. The problem is that fucking slippery slope has gone from censoring you from banning Alex Jones off Twitter a year and a half ago to getting the White House press secretary banned off Twitter because she posts something from the New York Post, which is crazy. It's crazy. That's a 200 and whatever year old America's oldest newspaper. A couple of quick points here. White House press secretary Kaylee McKinnon. Her Twitter is still up and active. She's been tweeting quite a bit about Hunter Biden. So I don't know Joe's trying to say about her getting banned. I'm guessing she posted a link to that New York Post story that was blocked and it's being exaggerated to her getting kicked off Twitter. I'd like to correct Joe's

wrong speech with some correct speech. Oh, that's smart. Censoring things on Twitter has nothing to do with the First Amendment, unless the government is doing it. You don't have a right to say whatever you want, wherever you want to, particularly if you're on a platform that someone else runs. If you were a guest on my radio show, it might be totally legal for you to be racist as hell, but it would be my right to not allow you to do so on my show. I legitimately have no idea what people like Joe Rogan imagined the First Amendment to mean. I guess the way I would approach this kind of conversation is I would ask him what scenarios exist where it would be okay to kick someone off Twitter and then try to go from there. Is it okay to kick someone off

for threatening another user? If so, why is that okay? If it's okay for Twitter to kick someone off for threatening an individual's safety, is there a possibility that there's a responsibility that the platform has to act when there are other threats to people's safety, like when people are lying about a public health crisis for profit or they're spreading misinformation about an upcoming election? Is there a communal responsibility? These are challenging issues and I can see a reasonable conversation between people who have different views on it, but what I can't see being a good use of time is a couple of idiots yelling about the First Amendment because weirdly all their bigot friends are getting kicked off popular platforms for things like starting a violent

western chauvinist street gang or endorsing pedophilia on your podcast. Sure, sure, those are bad things. The only solution these dum-dums ever put forth is repealing section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which makes these platforms like Twitter, makes them platforms instead of publishers, which relinquishes them of legal responsibility for the things that people post. If you were to repeal section 230, not only would it completely destroy things like Facebook and Twitter, it would effectively make it so you could never run a social media site without incredibly intense moderation and censorship. Anytime anybody posted copyright material, you could get sued. Anytime anyone threatened another user, you could be held responsible. If someone used your messenger

service to organize a criminal act, you might find yourself being an accomplice. I think it's a great idea. I'm not sure what I think about Twitter blocking the Hunter Biden New York Post story, but I know what Alex and Joe should think about it. They should be fucking excited. The fact that the controversy broke out about it of blocking of the story got way more attention than the story deserved. So stupid. Also, the New York Post is not America's oldest newspaper. That's the Hartford Current. Or if you're not only counting continuously published papers, you could go with the New Hampshire Gazette if you allow papers that sometimes took a little time off. You know what bums me out about any argument about the First Amendment?

It is not long. It is not a long amendment. If you are going to have a discussion about the First Amendment, someone should write it on the wall. It should be in front of you. You should be able to read the First Amendment while we're discussing this and then tell me what backs up your bullshit written within the amendment. That's what I need you to do. You can't just tell me what you think the First Amendment says. Right. And to Rogan's credit, a little bit later, he will make a point that he believes that these companies have grown to the point where they're effectively should be considered utilities. Oh, they're governments.

Well, and hey, I'm not, I don't think that that's the stupidest thing. It just requires a different solution. It requires, if you want to treat them like utility, move towards that as opposed to like saying, hey, Alex Jones is a bad actor and he got kicked off this person's platform. Change the right thing or have a conversation about the right thing. The First Amendment doesn't apply in these circumstances. If you want to talk about the other stuff, go for it, but stop confusing people. Slippery slope arguments are not interesting to me in 2020, not least of which because we are at the bottom of that slope underneath a giant rock that Trump rolled on top of.

No, baby. I don't give a shit about your long slope arguments. We're trying to go up that fucking slope. Well, this slope of decency goes a little further downward. Oh, God. But I'll tell you what else has come out now. His daughter, Biden's daughters, purportedly, reportedly, and they've not denied it now. This broke three days ago, left her diary in a house that she had rented. And the diary talks about all the same stuff.

Go fuck yourself. Bullshit. Fuck off. Alex and Joe don't say anything or verifiable about Hunter Biden's laptop. So I thought it'd be kind of fun and trolley just to ban conversation of it from our podcast like Twitter did. So that's what I'm doing. That'd be fun. It's my platform, baby. I like it.

Section 230. Done. That said, I'm going to touch on this really fast. Apparently Alex's buddy Tom Pappert over at National File. Then I can trust it. He published what's alleged to be Biden's daughter, Ashley's diary from 2019. And if you read their article about it, it's pretty disgusting and how it revels in Ashley's supposed marital troubles and affairs.

That story was published on October 26. But that same day, another article was posted on National File by our favorite baby detective, Patrick Howley. Here's the deal. These ding-dongs have an up to hill battle in terms of proving to me that this is actually Biden's daughter's journal. I don't trust them at all. Particularly someone like Patrick Howley.

And after reviewing the materials, I'm not convinced that it's definitely a real journal. But even assuming that it is, this is an outrageously disgusting move on their part. If it's real, then it's the private journal of someone struggling with addiction and mental health. And I find this kind of thing completely unforgivable. I'm not going to discuss the contents of the passages from the alleged journal because nothing of it inside it rises to the level of feeling like it's appropriate to discuss. There's no allegations.

There's no claims in it that matter to people outside of the journal writers live their own lives. It's their business. And if it's real, then this is a horrific violation of their right to process their pain in the way they see fit. Go fuck yourselves. Yeah. How dare you? Yeah.

One, I feel like this is like telling me that Go Ask Alice is a real diary. Uh, that we, you know, it's like Go Ask Alice is bullshit. It's like, I just tried LSD yesterday and tomorrow I'm going to try weed, you know, like that kind of thing. Joe, how about you correct this wrong speech? Yeah, no shit. And two, just fucking. You're going to let, you're going to let this fly on your fucking platform.

Francis Keele Vair's diary was published 30 years after his death. That's the type of shit. Let's imagine let's imagine that this story is entirely true and the reporting on it is valid. Yeah. Joe Rogan still apparently is of the mind that reporting on someone's diary is becoming use of his time. I find that to be a little bit sad. I imagine that if Joe Rogan's personal business were put out for everyone to see,

he might not appreciate it very much. No. And I certainly think that if it were private messages to yourself about pain and how you're processing things, like I wouldn't want to read that from Joe, even if I wanted to make fun of him. No shit. Like even if Alex is like, I know so much private stuff about Alex that I don't want to know. I don't bring up on the show.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, that's not my business. Right. It's, I hate him and I still, I just can't imagine wanting to use that as ammunition against somebody. It just seems so disgusting. Yeah, especially when they're. It says more about you than it does about anybody who has a journal.

100%. So here's some more wrong speech. Trump doesn't have those outside connections. You can't buy him. He doesn't have lobbyists. The problem is he then has family and people around him that basically become lobbyists for themselves and Trump isn't really even aware of it. And then that's going on.

And I mean, even junior aides now, you'll find out have people given a millions of dollars just to say something to the president. Is this standard shit? Is this just stand how politics have always been done? And just now we're seeing it. Well, it was standard, let's say 200 years ago that you'd go out for the wife or the brother or somebody that works at the White House. It got organized the last 100 years with lobbyist.

Trump literally cut the lobbyist off. But all it did was now make everyone around him a lobbyist. They're not officially lobbyists. How did he cut the lobbyists off? He just stopped meeting with them and stopped and just said, I want briefings on what's going on all the side. So that's why he pissed official Washington off. This is a nice spin for Alex to claim the Trump's family and everyone around him are

all lobbyists because you can't buy Trump and you won't meet with lobbyists. That's some two plus two is five shit. That's bad. In the real world, Trump has done literally everything he can to buddy up with lobbyists and is running by far the most lobby friendly administration in recent history. In October 2019, ProPublica published a report identifying 281 lobbyists that Trump had hired into his administration, which is, quote, four times more than the Obama administration. The Associated Press found that, quote,

in less than three years, Trump named more former lobbyists to cabinet level posts than his most recent predecessors did in eight years. One of the things that's scariest about how Trump has operated is that he's been willing to hire lobbyists to positions that involve the fields they previously were lobbying in. Who knows better than the people who destroyed the environment? 00:59:05,860 --> 00:59:08,180 How best to protect the environment, Dan? One example is Colin Roskey, who left a career in healthcare lobbying to join the Department

of Health and Human Services in January 2019. What a coincidental situation. Virginia Cantor, the ethics chief counsel of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, told ProPublica that the number of lobbyists Trump was hiring, quote, suggests that lobbyists see themselves as more effective in furthering their client's special interests from inside the government rather than from outside. That's a shocking conclusion to make. And this phenomenon goes in both directions.

In July, Politico reported on 82 former Trump administration officials who'd left their jobs and registered as lobbyists, despite Trump's claim that he was going to put a five-year ban on lobbying for people who left government employment. His goddamn chief of staff, Reince Priebus, is now the chairman of Michael Best, a high-profile lobbying firm. Great. Back in July, there was plenty of reporting you can find about how Trump connected lobbyists were receiving billions of dollars from coronavirus stimulus packages while the

independent businesses that were struggling were left vending for scraps, which is weird. This whole thing is just a disgraceful lie sold to people who like to chant drain the swamp. Watchdog groups and journalists who have actually looked at the staffing decisions are pretty universal in their conclusion that Trump is probably the most lobbyist-infested presidency that anyone can remember in recent history. And I think we've seen the results of that. Joe Rogan may not know this, and his research team is a guy with Google who's working on the fly and is getting over COVID.

Yeah, I was going to say who recently had a disease. Yeah, it's not okay to just let Alex Passoff complete lies like this to a grand eyes Trump when you're completely unprepared to have a conversation about the reality and demonstrate to your impressionable audience that the man sitting in front of you, who is your friend, is a liar. If you're not able to demonstrate that, you can't have the conversation, because then the opposite conclusion will be reached by your audience. Yeah.

And even then, Alex's argument is, no, no, no, no. It's not crony capitalism. It's nepotism. That's way better. It's nepotism that turns into a form of crony capitalism because the relatives and friends just de facto become lobbyists because lobbyists can't meet with Trump. Because so now they, that's not better. So Alex just described a far worse system than what we had prior.

And Joe is like, oh, well, that's good. Yeah. It's like, hey, it's like before, but you know, the lobbyists who used to just be professionals, they're now related. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's also a familial attachment there to make it to make it really fraught. I love it.

Yeah, that's great. So interestingly, they talk about this a little bit more and we get our first instance of Joe actually kind of pushing back, which I was surprised by. Everyone around him in his cabinet and everyone that works there, even down to mid-level people, are now getting multi-million-dollar contracts for companies like AT&T and stuff, just to just to just to even mention something. Now, hold up. That's bad.

You said AT&T. Has it been proven that it's AT&T or are you just saying AT&T like companies, like large companies? I'm not saying AT&T is bad. I think AT&T is overall a good company. But is AT&T doing something bad? No, I just, I was mentioning that as a Fortune 500 company. Okay, but it's not AT&T. No, it's not AT&T.

So we shouldn't say that. See, this is why you need someone that's like a fact checker right next to you. No, no, slow down. The media will say I'm wrong about that. But okay. But no, no, hold on. It's personal lawyer. It's personal lawyer, the one that ended up going to jail.

Actually, Michael Cohen was getting money from AT&T. Go ahead and pull it up. I mean, I was just trying to give you a gestalt quick analysis. But I just want to, I've told you before, what you really need on your show is like a legit journalist who's right next to you with a laptop going, Alex, hold on, hold on. Joe has a great idea there, although he probably doesn't realize that Alex's entire style of conversation and broadcast is designed so that you can't fact check him without taking for a fucking ever and slowing down any kind of entertainment value of your show.

Yeah, you got it. There's a reason that our episodes are so long and that I desperately need you to yell a bunch. Alex is basically the inverse show. If there was a talented journalist sitting next to him, it would be fight knowledge instead of knowledge. Outside of being forced to do so by some weird, bizarre court ruling, Alex will never have someone suggesting he stopped making shit up. That was a nice attempt by Joe to push back on something Alex was saying,

but you can see here how slippery Alex tries to be and how he needs to be seen as right, even when admitting that he's wrong. Alex can say that Trump campaign members are getting million dollar deals from companies like AT&T, and then when he's pressed on it, he has to admit users using AT&T as an example, so he doesn't know anything about AT&T. I don't actually have any real examples, I'm just saying. But also Michael Cohen did have a million dollar deal with AT&T, so I guess that's not true, and Alex was right to use AT&T as an example.

You see how this is intentionally obtuse. It's supposed to be confusing, so you'd have a difficult time nailing down exactly what Alex is even saying. An article in Reuters from 2018 discusses how Michael Cohen's consulting firm, Essential Consultants LLC, was paid approximately $600,000 in 2017 by AT&T to advise them on how to work with Trump. This is not illegal, but it's shady as hell. And guess what?

Cohen was still working for Trump at the time. Yeah. If anything, this is just an indication of the shady, sleazy behavior that was tolerated and totally normal in Trump's circle. The whole thing was tolerated. Sure. The whole thing is just corrupt as people being corrupt. Like, there was a huge merger on the table between AT&T and Time Warner,

which Trump had been opposed to, since it would, as he said, put, quote, too much concentration of power into the hands of too few. After the election, quote, Cohen approached AT&T about working on their behalf in the post-election transition. He was given a one-year contract at $50,000 per month. In fairness, AT&T also donated $2 million towards Trump's inauguration, so it wasn't like Cohen was the only person getting cash to go in their way. Everybody made their piece.

Yeah. Everybody made their piece, except for America. We got no piece. The argument that Alex seems to be making is that Trump hates lobbyists, but that everyone around him is a lobbyist, and his personal lawyer was engaged in a pretty clear case of influence peddling immediately after the election. Right.

This is a dumb argument that someone not named Joe Rogan might push back on a little bit more, but he doesn't. So you have this, and they end up finding a story about Michael Cohen getting money from AT&T, and now all of a sudden Alex isn't crazy for saying these things. The problem becomes, Alex makes sensational claims that he thinks are proven by a headline, and he's in a space with a guy who can have things proven to him by a headline. It's a real challenge. And here's what I did.

I had my guy Google it, and he read me a headline, so now it's true. The optics of it are really difficult to ever get to anything more substantial. So angry. Well, I mean, this will probably make you more mad. Yeah, doesn't surprise me. Do you remember if Alex likes or dislikes Jared Kushner? On which day? No, I'm asking him currently.

He, right now, I think he doesn't like Kushner. You think that? I think he's on the dozen like Kushner tip right now. That's interesting. I can tell you this. I can tell you this. People were really pissed who were patriots, the intelligence community, and other also enemies of Trump that Kushner had so much influence,

but now Kushner's got a lot of respect because he's actually gotten a lot of huge peace deals done that nobody else could do for 50 years. That's interesting how little press those peace deals. Yeah, they're getting none. I wonder why they're getting none. You never heard of it. So like a month ago, Alex was ranting on his show about how Jared was part of the deep state. So you were right.

I was right. These allegiances just go back and forth with little meaning at all. Did they do something I can present as good? The fucking patriots. Did they do something I'm supposed to hate? Well, you know what? I just heard talk that Soros gave him some money. They're secretly working together.

Totally. Doesn't mean shit. Nope. So as for these peace deals, they're getting a bunch of press coverage, but it's not getting the kind of coverage these guys want, which is people saying that Trump saved the world. And the reason they aren't getting that coverage is because he hasn't yet to be clear. Peace is good.

And I'll always be happy when people are working towards it. I'm not going to balk at peace just because it might involve Trump's actions, but there are plenty of reasons to take issue with the story and express some reservation. The first is that the peace deals that have been struck don't involve any consideration of the Palestinians, which by definition is a problem. The second is that they don't involve Saudi Arabia. The third is that many experts do not believe that these agreements are the foundation of a lasting peace.

Some have noted that these deals with Bahrain and United Arab Emirates, recognizing and normalizing relations with Israel, they're less likely to create a real functioning peace, but they are designed to expand regional trade by normalizing these relations and to isolate Iran. By normalizing relations with the UAE and Israel, the possibility of using UAE as a place to launch from for any possible attack on Iran becomes a real issue that Iran has to deal with.

Ultimately, this is not nothing, but it's also not a real peace plan if it doesn't include the Palestinian voice. And also a lot of the groundwork for these deals, they weren't laid by Trump, but are actually in fact work that had been done by the United Nations. We'll see what happens and how this situation develops, but it's nonsense to pretend that the media hasn't covered these deals and haven't been overly deferential to Trump in their coverage. Honestly, they're just talking shit.

They're peace deals that are going to lead to war. I mean, that's what they're creating. They're creating a fucking stop gap in order to put their fucking pieces in place. That's one perspective on it. Having the amount of information that I have and the abilities that I have, I can't accurately assess this until later, and the effects are more clear. I can say that I don't think that this takes into consideration the Palestinians in nearly the extent that they need to, and that's a problem.

Which is going to lead to further. Most likely. So this is still about Jared Kushner here. They're talking about Kushner's dad, who was a criminal. Criminal. Yeah, unlike Kushner. Sure. And so, Rogan finds an article about Chris Christie,

who was involved in the prosecution of Kushner's father. And so, they talk about that, and then Alex just makes shit up. And so, what am I supposed to do as a prosecutor? I mean, if a guy hires a prostitute to do soose his brother-in-law. Oh, it's his brother-in-law. That's what he said. His brother-in-law. His brother-in-law.

Okay. I got confused. And then video tapes it, and then sends the video tape to his sister to attempt to intimidate her from testifying before a grand jury. Do I really need any more justification than that? Holy shit, I'm a bad guy. But it wasn't to intimidate. That's his interpretation. That stuff goes on divorces all the time.

People go video tape to the other person cheating. So is it his brother? That's why it was wrong. He went to prison because he wasn't doing it. He was doing that to show that the person testifying was wrong. Of course, you're trying to influence testimony with truth. It's this idea that, yes, they're cheating. I told you they were.

Here's the proof. How does that become fraud? Okay, I'm confused. So he set up his brother-in-law. With a prostitute to show that this was been going on before, which he'd already alleged. Alex is having fun here and making things up, but I regret to inform you that Jared's father,

Charles Kushner, pled guilty to quote, 16 counts of assisting in the filing of false tax returns, one count of retaliating against a cooperating witness, and one count of making false statements to the Federal Election Commission. While he was running his business, Kushner Companies, Charles had falsified charitable contributions in the excess of $1 million to cheat on taxes.

His sister was a witness to the crime, and he didn't want her to testify. So he attempted to hire a sex worker to seduce her husband, which he would record and use as blackmail. He pled guilty to all of this and even quote, told the court that he had paid a private investigator, $25,000 to arrange for the seduction and videotaping of the cooperating witness's husband.

Kushner admitted to personally recruiting the prostitute and instructing that the videotaping mailed to the cooperating witness. Alex is pretending this is just the thing where Kushner's dead had claimed that this dude was cheating, but no one believed him. So I guess he went and hired a sex worker so he could videotape them having sex

and then send that tape to his sister to prove it. He was right. I am right. Wow. This is childish bullshit and just complete fiction that Alex is trying to pass off his truth. A lot of reasonable people try and prove themselves correct by hiring a sex worker in order to blackmail their relations.

It had nothing to do with the crime. No, no, no. He was proving himself right, and he knew he wasn't going to get a fair shake in court because rich guys never get a fair shake, Dan. Had nothing to do with the other 16 counts of fraud that he also pled guilty to. Whoa, those were fake.

Those were fake. I want you to think about this, because this is something that I was reflecting on as I was going through this episode. If Alex Jones wasn't a train wreck, lightning rod of attention that Joe Rogan can capitalize on platforming, would he take any of this shit

that he's saying seriously even for a second? No. Just imagine that in the context of this episode, like all of the content is the same, but it's being said by a random person. You'd rightly ignore them and assume that they weren't well. Joe Rogan's only doing this because of the attention that he can get out of having Alex on his podcast

and possibly some imagining that they're friends. I can't believe he's still, it sounds like he does. It sounds like he still thinks they're friends. Does he not listen to our show? I have warned him many times that Alex is not his friend. I feel like his mom right now. I feel like he's getting caught up in the wrong crowd. I feel like if by the end of this,

Joe doesn't realize that Alex is not his friend and he's being used. I just don't. He's beyond that point ever reaching him. Because Alex, Joe wants to look more into this story about Kushner's dad and here's Alex's response. So he set up his brother-in-law with a prostitute to show that this was been going on before,

which he'd already alleged. Okay, as part of the plot, Kushner hired a prostitute to lure shoulder into having sex in a Bridgewater, New Jersey motel. But first of all, if you find yourself in a Bridgewater, New Jersey motel, run. As the hidden camera rolls, a tape of the encounter was then sent

to Kushner's sister and the shoulders. Look, I know the whole story. So just trust us. Just trust us. Just trust us. We're infowars. Just trust us. I know the whole story now granted.

All the information you'll be able to find does not support my version of things. Just trust us. How about no, Alex, who have not earned that? I do like that as a new slogan for them, infowars. Just trust us. Trust us. Don't look into it.

Yeah. Hey, the world is run by demons. Trust us. Yes, trust me. Okay. So Alex, he doesn't just rely on trust, though. He also has sources and he's brought documents. We're going to get a lot of

and I've got articles in the LA Times and New York Times I brought for you where they say Xi Jinping must destroy Trump to save America. He was our leader. And then at the Davos group, he said three years ago, I will destroy Trump. I will work with Hollywood. I've got all his quotes right here.

And Xi Jinping said, I want to overthrow American democracy. I want to repudiate it. I want to discredit it. And Xi Jinping admits he admires Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin. Okay. But isn't he doing that?

That's crazy. That seemed crazy. Yeah. You can pull it up. Yeah, you're not else you can pull up. Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, they got their hands dirty. Both those guys were complete badasses. Complete studs.

That was from 2015. Yeah. Always weirds me out whenever he specifically brings up Hitler and Stalin as being like, look at the guys this idiot admires. Never like Chow Chesky. Never, never like, no, it's Hitler and Stalin. And I love those guys.

Well, he has at least said that they're studs. So, Joe again is trying. And again, this is a big part of my argument that this is just not a thing you can do responsibly. He tries to push back on Alex's claim that she had come out and said that he's going to destroy Trump or whatever. And Alex can't handle any pushback. The Washington Post, the LA Times, the New York Times,

I brought you the articles here, Dreams of Red Emperor, The Relentless Rise of Xi Jinping. And it says in these articles, he must destroy American, Western Christian values. We love him and we accept China as our master. I have the goddamn articles. This is treason. The freaking, dude, right here.

Washington Post. But who's saying that quote? Who's that quote? Here, I'll give them to you. This is, this is the Washington Post. And there's a huge article, LA Times. I understand. But the quote that you just said about he must destroy Trump.

Just like I said, AT&T gave money unofficially lobbying. You pulled it up. I read the article. I'm not giving you the exact. I understand what you're saying. But what I'm, what I'm asking you is who you quoted someone. But who did you quote when you said that? I'm quoting from when I read these again this morning

before I came here. What I remember, David, Don, Dury, Durley. Oh, that guy. And, and this, this Chinese lady. I think he's talking about the prevailing sentiment of what they feel they must do. I understand. But when you quote somebody.

Good work, Tim. No, no, no, no. I mean, I just jumped in there. In these articles. Right. Well, look at the headline. Xi's choice, destroy Trump or save them from weak in America. I mean, right.

Xi needs to destroy Trump. Look at the Chinese dictator. He's a destroyer president. So do you think that they're doing that because Trump wants to change the trade deals? You know what Trump said? Trump didn't start a trade war. He ended our surrender.

Okay. So you can see like Alex can't answer direct questions about what are you talking about? I mean, what I'm talking about is what I remember from what I read this morning. Right. That's not, that is not impressive. Oh, no, no, no.

Pretty terrible. How long is the article? Is it longer than four pages? Probably. And I don't think you read it. Towards the end of this episode, I get, I found one of the greatest exaggerations of length I've ever seen. Okay.

All right. It's amazing. I like it. That has effort ease. Okay. Yeah. So they get to talking about climate change a bit here. Oh, okay.

They can stop. Well, Alex is really into coal. Are coal plants really clean? 100% clean. How is that possible? I'll tell you, please. Okay. There's two different types of major power plants.

When he says clean coal, I roll my eyes every time. When Trump's like clean coal, clean. Well, that's because the engine is so damn good. Is it? I'll tell you. Please. Oh boy. So here we go.

Alex tries to explain his clean coal. Hold on. Hold on. This is amazing. I know this is going to infuriate you, but please hold your fire for a moment. Doing great. Yeah.

Doing great, dad. So you'll notice in this clip, I believe what happens is that Alex realizes, you know, you ever watch those cartoons where like Wiley Coyote will run off a cliff and he'll make it a few steps. And then he looks down and then he holds up the little sign that says, uh-oh. And then down he goes.

I believe that is what happens here. Here we go. They had old fashioned coal plants. China doesn't have one scrubber or filter on their coal power plants. And China doesn't have clean burning coal. There's one place in the United States that has major deposits of coal that is such pure carbon.

You don't even need scrubbers. Nothing comes out but carbon dioxide and water. Well, they know we know water's not bad, so they list carbon dioxide. People think it's monoxide. Just like in studies, if you say the scientific name of water, most people in pen and teller skits on the street will say banned dihydrogen monoxide.

If you go out on the street, Joe Rogan, and ask 100 Austonites, dihydrogen monoxide is everywhere. If you get too much of it, you can die drowned. So what I think is going on here is that Alex knows the word scrubber and that's about the depth of his understanding of this topic. It looks like that's where we're at. So he knows like as he's starting to talk, he's like,

I don't really have much else to say on this. So I'm going to just riff about how chemical names are weird and people don't know what they are. It's a lot of fun, but it has nothing to do with the subject of clean coal. It's explicitly an attempt to get Joe to forget the line of questioning he was going down and get lost in this side trail because Alex is caught in a lie that he can't back up.

There is no such thing as clean coal, the way that he is imagining it, and he's lying to Joe's face. Like the way that he's talking about scrubber, it's almost like he thinks that there's like 30s, 17th century Japanese women with like little brushes just going. No, no, he thinks they're the personified scrubbing bubbles from the commercial that are running around and smiling. That's exactly what I think.

Cleaning a piece of charcoal. That's exactly what I think he sees. Yes. That's exactly what I think he sees. And that's very, that's very troubling to me. Oh, man, you're going to be so fucking pissed by the end of this section. Understand how many people are listening to Joe Rogan

and Alex Jones talk about the climate, Dan. Well, I mean, thank God that Joe's here to correct this bad speech. Millions of people listen to this. We're fucked. So there's this magical great coal out west. There's a place. There's a place in the United States where carbon is just so pure. You don't even need scrubbers.

Pure carbon. Right. That's what is that? What is that fucking carbon nanotubes? What are we fucking talking about? Diamonds? Is that what's pure carbon? It's so clean.

What is so clean? Same thing if you do the sign of it, name a salt. Sounds scary. Well, so so forgot that one. Hydrogen monoxide is the bad one. Hydrogen dioxide is a good one. That's the life cycle on earth. There's light.

There's water. There's oxygen and there's carbon dioxide. Those are the four things you've got to have for for life. And so they've gotten convinced to say coal is dirty. It puts out carbon dioxide and water vapor. And so until about the 70s, we were still burning dirty coal full of mercury. All of it. They found huge deposits of clean burning coal out west.

How? Nothing you taught around the whole world for over a thousand years. What? What are you fucking talking about? One coal is so damn pure and it's only in the United States and major deposits that basically you don't even need to put scrubbers on it. You don't need the scrubbers. This is disturbing.

I'm going to fight. I'm going to fight somebody. I'm going to walk out of this and I'm just going to fight the first fucking person I see. I'm thinking about investing in like a heavy bag. I need to fight. Not for working out, but just for like in case Rogen puts out another episode. Just for me while I'm listening to these clips. Yeah.

Alex is completely misleading, Joe, on the main issue, which is that carbon dioxide is not just magically good. It's necessary for life. Yes, that is true. But in excess amounts, it has a bad effect on the environment. Alex compared it to water, so I will too. You need water to live, but too much of it will kill you. It's the same thing with CO2.

In this conversation, Alex has reframed the issue. So the part that requires pushback isn't even being discussed. The part Joe needs to attack is the idea that CO2 emissions are always good, but everyone thinks that they're bad because they're actually carbon monoxide. They think that's what it is. That's the flimsy as shit in the world. And Alex couldn't ever defend that position. But now Alex has introduced a completely new layer to this bullshit,

which is that there's magical super pure coal out west in them far hills. I, I just, I just the, that's a swing. There's magical coal. That's, and it's in Utah. He's literally doing a fucking Brigham Young on us. We have to go to Utah to find the new golden plates. Is that what we're doing, Dan? You can find a full report from the US Geological Survey

of all the coal deposits in Utah. And weirdly, none of them seem to match what Alex is describing. You'd really think that they'd make note of this magic coal that could power the entire world for a thousand years, but I guess they somehow overlooked that. Globalists. Also Utah is responsible for mining approximately 2% of the coal that's used annually in the United States.

Yeah, but that's the magic stuff. Oh, sure. The stuff that Alex is talking about isn't real. And it's just what his childish brain has come up with when he thinks about the words clean coal. But his strategy is really good here. What he's done is create a completely outrageous claim that's going to distract people from the far more insidious one

that you've snuck through. There's no time to argue about CO2 if you're caught up with this magical Utah coal. Yeah. It doesn't really actually work. I think there is time, because here's my argument. Here's my argument to the magical coal. No, now let's talk about CO2.

Well, but the magical coal is more fun. It is way more fun. You can't do that. You can't tell me that there's magical burning coal. Well, sure, you shouldn't. You shouldn't. Because it's nonsense. It's not a good idea.

But Alex doesn't succeed in wiggling loose from this trap or whatever, not really even a trap. He's like Mr. Mogu. He ran into like a coat wreck and a coat fell on him and he thinks it's a net or something. It's like a net on him. He's done this to himself and he's trying to get out of this metaphorical coat by rambling about how CO2 is great.

And this gets so weird. One coal is so damn pure, and it's only in the United States in major deposits, that basically you don't even need to put scrubbers on it. But our scientists in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, because they realize that dirty coal has mercury in it, has all these horrible toxins, they put scrubbers on it. That's when you drive by a coal plant,

it's this big, huge buildings and wires and hoses and big, huge steel. It looks like an alien spaceship. That's because it's called distillates. They know how to burn it and then take off all the chemicals, all the toxins and make plastics and make chemicals and make pesticides and make everything else that comes out of that.

And then out of the stack comes nothing, but they have sensors on it. Nothing but water and carbon dioxide. Totally clean, totally pure. So that's what's going on. So carbon monoxide is what everybody's worried about. Carbon dioxide increasing in the environment has no negative effects.

Let's talk about it. Let's. Yeah. Carbon monoxide is not what everyone's worried about. Carbon monoxide poisoning is something people are concerned about, but it's a completely different issue. So far, Joe has failed on many, many levels, but the fact that he got this one right,

I will give him props for that. And he's asking. Yep. And it allows for the opportunity for Alex to have to say more. Yeah. And that in and of itself is kind of a good situation if you handle it appropriately. Totally.

And after the fact, you say, that's stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Which Joe doesn't do, but he does allow for the opportunity for Alex. Sure. Surely stupid. Yeah.

And that's kind of nice. Carbon dioxide was over 500 times stronger in the time of the T-Rex, OK, in the Jurassic age. That's why plants grew so fast. Things were so big. There was a higher oxygen level. Just like Mars lost its atmosphere. Used to have an ocean they've now gone and proven.

It lost its atmosphere. It's a smaller planet. Couldn't hold it. Truth is, the Earth's losing its atmosphere. So what's crazy is we come right along at this time, pump up all of this juice and all this carbon that was produced on the surface with plants and animals that ran down and cracks into the Earth.

We're now pumping out all that carbon saved for millions of years ago and actually terraforming the planet, putting more carbon dioxide in that we actually need right at this time. Like, aliens figured this out or something. But hold, please. But hold, please. Isn't carbon dioxide responsible for an increase in the temperature of the Earth? But they said that we would have a seven increase.

They said that by 2013 all the LA would be flooded and New York would be flooded. All that's lies. Okay, but let's forget about what they said in the past. What they're saying now is that carbon dioxide increase is responsible for an increase in the temperature of the Earth. Which, which, which, we hope it does. Because we hope it increases the temperature of the Earth.

The last ice age. Hold up, but hold on. Hold on, indeed. So apparently, temperature's going up is good. All right, here's what we need. We need a big, big box, like a packing box. We need to put some holes in it. We need to put Alex in there and we need to feed him once a day.

That's what I think we need to do. I don't even know if that would be safe. I think it's a good idea. So here we learn that there was way more CO2 in the atmosphere during the time of dinosaurs. But since then, CO2 levels have gone down and that's a sign that Earth is losing its atmosphere. But right at the last second, fossil fuel companies have come along

and figured out the perfect solution. Polluting. Put it in a box. Which happens to make them billions of dollars. I leave, I'm being charitable when I say air holes. It's fair enough that CO2 levels were much higher in the time of the dinosaurs, but so what? Those millions of years ago.

And to pretend that we're at all ready to face the kind of issues that would accompany the Earth changing to a climate unseen for millions of years is comical. Haven't you read the dinosaurs' records though? Much like the FBI. They were very good at taking detailed notes and they left us solutions. Unfortunately, they didn't survive 62 million years.

Their solution was turning to a cockroach. I'm a bird now. There's normal variability in the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere over time. That is fair enough. And you can see it roughly go up and down in waves for the past like 800,000 years. Sure.

And then you get to the time post the industrial revolution and present day and that wave gets fucked. With 2019's number representing a 33% increase over the previous highest CO2 concentration recorded about 300,000 years ago. Alex does not understand the issues he's talking about. And I will at least applaud Joe for creating this situation where Alex sounds like the idiot that he is,

but I resent that he doesn't have the ability to call Alex a liar and a fraud. And that this shit is nonsense and he has no idea what he's talking about. I can't. So, I mean, and it's even worse. It's so much worse now than we could even, like the problem is we're so distracted

by the rest of everything being the worst. Like ice sheets are not even forming. Like this is not good. Yeah. Everything is really, really bad with the climate more so than anything else. We're fucked. We're fucked.

It's hard to look at. That's why we're staying here near a source of fresh water. Dan, we'll go over there. We'll grab some buckets every morning. We'll boil them and we'll have a great day. Yeah. So, Joe does make another good point here on the same topic and that is that, well, you know,

it's been shown that rising temperatures lead to hurricanes because of the rising water temperatures create the conditions where storms are stronger and there's more of them. Good point. Oh boy. But the increase in the temperature of the earth

is responsible for the increase in hurricanes, the frequency and the power of the hurricanes. If you look up the spectrum in the last 100 years, hurricanes have gotten weaker. That's all media hype. But let me just tell you. Oh, Jesus. Joe, Joe, Joe, I swear to God,

I swear to God, I can prove all this to you. This is so huge for your audience. Are you a carbon dioxide salesman? Listen. Well, they always say I get money from old companies. I'm not. But can I please tell you what's going on? I work for free.

Please do. You are a carbon-based life form. Let me show you what I came here with in my notes. Oh boy. Alex is lying about hurricanes no matter how you want to determine the statistics. If you want to go by total number of named storms, 2005 is the record holder with 28,

but it probably won't be for long since less than a week ago, we saw a tropical storm, Zeta, represent the 27th named storm of this season, which won't be over until the end of November at least. We're not good. If you want to go by severity of storms, that's been increasing as well.

If you want to go with frequency of stronger storms, that's setting records. The frequency of storms that escalate very rapidly is also increasing. Three of the top five most costly storms in recorded history in the United States happened in 2017. The other two were in 2012 and 2005. You have to go 23 storms down that list

to find one that happened before 1965. It's not media hype that hurricanes are getting stronger and happening more frequently. Joe can scoff at Alex, but Alex doesn't deserve to be allowed to be scoffed at and then move along to some dumb ass distraction point about how we're carbon based life form. He deserves to have this show grind to a halt

until he concedes that he's making this up. He should have to be forced to either leave or admit, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm full of shit. Because anything else is a win for him. Anything else is a win. Pivoting over to, oh, we're carbon based life forms is exactly what Alex needs to do.

And allowing him to do it is conceding this point, essentially. And it's just the better move for Rogan. Rogan having him walk off his show is just the best thing that Rogan could have done. That would have been amazing. Everybody would have nonstop talked about it. Instead of being the giant piece of shit, that would have been one side of the argument

and the other argument would have, look at how great Joe Rogan was in taking down Alex Jones. It's essentially a win-win for him. Because if Alex leaves, he can have his come on Gallagher moment. Yeah, exactly. And if Alex stays, then you get the train wreck

that inevitably happens whenever Alex goes anywhere. And so he's guaranteed attention no matter what he does. But the path that he has chosen to take is the one that kind of has the appearance of responsibility but isn't really all that responsible. Yeah, it's a half-assed. Yeah. Because Alex tries to rant about carbon

because he's got some thoughts. But he also realizes, again, much like Wiley Coyote, he has run out of cliff. And so he tries to transition into some transphobia. Sure. And to Joe's credit, he tries to get him back on track. What is Joe Rogan made up out of? Carbon.

Carbon-based life form. We are literally stardust. It's a song, right? Exactly. What are trees made out of? Beer. Tree stuff? Carbon.

Songs. Carbon. Yeah, carbon-based life forms. It's the whole planet. And so this is the carbon cycle. This is in the mainline textbooks. I understand. So just like they come out in assault reality now

and say, a little boy is biologically a girl, I don't care if you rose up once and say he's a girl. Again, rabbit hole. Let's not go down these rabbit holes. But I'm saying it's not science. They go, the science is settled. There's not two genders. B, fucking S.

Okay, hold on. Let's not go down that road. Do you want to go down that road in the future? No, no, no, I'll do it. I'll do it. Let me tell you. I want you to talk about carbon. I know.

I don't want to get off track here because isn't there a delicate balance with the temperature on Earth and the rising sea levels and the melting in the ice caps? This has all been established by a lot of very. They say the science is settled. It's not.

But very concerned environmentalists have said that an increase in the temperature of the Earth could be disastrous because of civilization. It's a power grab. Are you sure it's a power grab? I am absolutely freaking lit. But how do you know that it's not all?

How do you know that? Because they're arrogant and they've all written white papers on it that I've read. I can give you. Okay. Well, you can't and you don't. That is the best.

That is the best example, even if it's a power dynamic like with Rogan who is like Alex has to lick Rogan's boots to stay on because this is his outlet. Rogan's the only one who's willing to put him on. Pretty much, yeah.

In the face of Spotify or whatever. Yes, yes. And just no matter what, if you just point out something. No. Power grab. Well, but it's a dog. But the reason.

See the sun. But the reason that you descend to that is because Joe clearly wasn't taking the bait with going down the transphobic rift. 01:34:55,060 --> 01:34:55,700 Exactly. Alec was hoping to pilot the conversation into that water.

And then I can keep motor mouthing my way through it. 01:35:02,100 --> 01:35:02,900 And we'll get past it. And we'll forget the fact that I completely punted. Too far off. Yeah. Of the carbon stuff. Yeah.

And so you have to just be blunt. No power grab. I read white papers. I could prove everything. Blah, blah, blah. Did it. Did it. Just trust me.

Yeah. Just trust us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's what it all ends up at the bottom. Yep. And it sort of becomes like. Like, listen to this clip of Alex just sort of like,

all right, fine. I'll just say all the words I know about climate change and CO2 and stuff. There is a contributing factor. Scientifically, it's been proven that increased carbon dioxide has an effect on the temperature of the earth. Do you agree with that?

It depends on the models they use. Sometimes actually more carbon dioxide could cause a cooling effect, but generally could cause a heating effect. It depends on potash, the atmosphere, volcanic ejections at the time, and also solar maximum and minimum. Minimum, if you have spot activities,

the main generator of planetary climate. Alex just threw out that meaningless word salad of everything he can remember Lord Monkton telling him in the past. Solar maximums, potash, sunspots. Planet X. None of that is true. And it's just Alex's weasel answer.

So he doesn't have to own the position of having said that CO2 going up causes temperature to go up. This is all just a function of him not wanting to get nailed down on a particular fact because if he does, he has to own the implications. For instance, if Joe gets him to admit that rising CO2 levels result in higher temperatures,

then Alex would have to justify why higher temperatures are good. If Joe could demonstrate the negative effects of rising temperatures from the rising sea level to the relationship between water temperatures and hurricanes, to the droughts around the world, to the fact that many regions of the world could become uninhabitable

and cause massive dislocation of people, then Alex would have to accept that he was in favor of those things. He can't do that. So that's why he always gives non-answers which allow him to continue to operate in this deceptive space and not have to commit to anything

except that he secretly can prove everything and everyone's wrong. I don't understand. It depends on the model. I just don't understand what it is really like deep down that makes conservatives want to rub oil executives' balls all over their face. I just don't get it.

Just like, I just love that shit on their face and I just don't understand it. Yeah, I don't know exactly either. Maybe that's the way we do it. Maybe that's how we get the white supremacists on board. Okay, we have to do something about climate change. Otherwise, all those people are going to have to come here. Isn't that eco-fascism?

It's totally... No, I'm just trying to trick them into doing it. I'm not... No, come on in, guys. Come on in over here. Come on in over here. You're appealing to an argument of the eco-fascists. I'll go over here and be like,

hey, see if we do this, then you won't have to deal with all these refugees. But at the same time, I'll be like, come on in, refugees. Just come around the back. Come around the back entrance. So you're essentially appealing to an eco-fascist argument in order to sway their support for the opposite?

Good luck. In this next clip, Rogan is trying to explain to Alex that there are these environmentalists who have a point, and then there are people in industry, and they aren't the same people. They are working on different projects. Across purposes, yeah.

Alex does not agree. Oh, okay. He thinks they're in bed. There we go. The environmentalists are not in bed with the industrialists. The environmentalists are not in bed with all these people that think that they can control the world. Actually, BP and ExxonMobil and others are the biggest funders

of the climate change movement. They're the biggest funders of it. Contrary to what you hear. How so? All right, Joe, here's the thing. I understand that you're a smart guy, and I understand you want to go over each piece of this. Let's go through.

Well, we have to. We have to. I agree. Let's go through each piece. But understand, you understand that the way you talk, and I enjoy the way you talk. It's fast. But the way you talk is fast,

and you go on these long tangents, and then you go to frogs being gay, and a lot of things happen. I want to do it. And people continue. I'm putting a record out. Yes, but I want to do it step by step. All right, let's do this.

Let's do this. Let's do this. But most people, the vast majority, here we go here, BP commits $100 million to fund new emissions reductions projects. Well, let me just go back for a second. 01:39:16,340 --> 01:39:17,540 And I appreciate you backing me up. Yes.

Let me break down. Are frogs gay? That is why Joe is not equipped to handle the rule he's given himself. That clip perfectly encapsulates this entire dynamic. Joe thinks that he can handle taking a mile a minute talker slash liar like Alex Jones and slow him down so that they can take these claims piece by piece and show what's really behind it all. He thinks because of the fake respect he imagines Alex has for him

that Alex wouldn't just lie to his face and dodge onto other topics instead of admit that he's lying to his fake friend's face. But Joe's wrong. Alex does not give a shit about him. Now, conversely, Joe also really doesn't give as much of a shit as he's pretending to. He knows that having Alex on will be a huge attention grabber as have the past two times he's been on the show. But Joe also knows that he can't really get away with just having Alex on like he has in the past.

There has to be the appearance of being a critical interview, which is manifesting in his attempts to keep Alex in line. You can clearly see how rattled even just the performance of pushback is to Alex. He's flopping all over the place and saying completely insane shit, hoping to wiggle his way out of each corner he accidentally backs himself into. But where Joe gives away his true intentions are moments like they're right at the end. He's got Alex in a position where they've refocused and he's supposed to get to his point about our CO2 emission talk and the climate change is all a big conspiracy.

Now, Alex can prove it and right as Alex is about to start talking, Joe pokes him with the gay frogs. Yeah, Joe wants the sideshow, but he doesn't want to take responsibility for it. Honestly, I kind of find this approach to be more distasteful than him and Eddie Bravo just laughing because it doesn't like that doesn't pretend to be something else. No, this is this is to health care. What the AC no, this is to a reality. What the ACA is to socialized health care, you know, like I don't.

I didn't take a half assed version of something is not the whole thing. Sure. And it's usually not as good. And as we've seen with the ACA, it's caused a lot more problems and harm than everything else. I don't. I don't accept your analogy if only because I think that it also helps. I don't think it helps a lot of people to help tons of people.

I was being very, very, uh, I don't know, but also, but also, you know, maybe there's a possibility that this interview could also help some people because I have gotten some messages from a couple of people just in my personal life who don't know Alex that well. But like Rogan and saw the interview and they're like, what is this drunk asshole? Like, you know, like, yeah, I think that some objective viewers could see Rogan's pushback and Alex's inability to answer anything and be like, this guy's full of shit.

Yeah. I think there's a possibility that there is some benefit from it. But I, I, I think that what, what Rogan is setting out to do, he does not achieve. And he honestly fails. And I think it does more harm than good because you, you set up the, the impression that Alex is right about a lot of stuff. Sure. Sure.

And then you demonstrate that he's wrong about everything and let him wiggle out of taking responsibility or owning the fact that he's wrong about all these things. And that just makes him appear to be right. It's, it's stupid. Yep. Was it entertaining? No. Wow.

Why do people? There's one part that we'll get to that I found exciting. Okay. Almost like the end of a basketball game. Cause I was like, oh, is it going to, is the shot clocks winding down? Right. But no, I didn't think Jack has taken his last two free throw. I didn't think it was that good or entertaining.

And one of the reasons is that, I mean, they're all on different drugs or sober. 01:43:00,740 --> 01:43:01,220 Sure. Sure. And that is incompatible. Yeah. It makes things very weird. Yeah.

Nothing against Tim Dillon, but he's just not really even an effective third part of this. Oh, this is bad. This interview. Yeah. Like Eddie Bravo at least will bring his own brand of personality and insanity to the proceedings. Yeah. Tim Dillon's just an infowars fan.

He just likes, he just likes Alex and tries to reframe things Alex says in ways that Joe might be more close to agreeing with. Yeah. It doesn't really make that many jokes even. See, Eddie Bravo adds that, that element, that X factor, you know, where it's like, Alex goes on a weird rent and then Eddie Bravo is like, you know, I heard people were on the moon and they came down to my place and I'm telling you right now, that's why Alex is right.

And you're like, yeah, Eddie Bravo, you're nuts. Thank you for smoothing the edges out on Alex saying some really transphobic shit. Yeah. So Alex is still being forced to discuss climate, which you would rather have not stayed on this long. Should never have done that. And he's trying to remember everything he's got. And so, I mean, we heard this on his Wednesday, our episode from Wednesday.

Yeah. Volcanoes, baby. There it is. One major volcano like Mount St. Helens, they estimated, put out more dust than decades of human dust. Yeah. Dust. And human dust is what helps cause nucleotide to form to cause storms.

What? Human dust is what causes nucleotide. And most of the physicists I've talked to, most of the climatologists I've talked to, they have broken down that the sun by magnitude is 98% of the driver. Joe's just allowing him to make this without any competent pushback. But Joe does have a good point. And that is that even if we allow that there are a ton of different influences that are causing climate change, CO2 emission is one thing that humans are capable of controlling.

Sure. The rest of the thing, like let's say sunspots or whatever. Volcanoes. We can't control those things. Can't do it. So it should be our goal to control the elements that could be destructive that are in our capacity control. Nah, that's a slippery slope, Dan.

Then Alex says something just baddie. Isn't CO2 emissions the one thing that we can control? So human-created global warming gas is like CO2 emissions. If we can put a cap on that, wouldn't you agree? Let me ask you a question. But if we continue to put that stuff in the atmosphere, and it continues to get higher and higher and higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, wouldn't that? This is going to make, the studies show it's going to make deserts become green again

and plants are going to absorb the carbon. What studies are these? You can look them up. Okay, let's find out. And that's why the left even says. But if you're going to say something like that, and I'm not arguing with you, but if you are going to say something like that, that's a very bold thing to say. You should probably not just say, look them up.

There should be something. No, let's type it in. Let's type it in. There's hundreds of them. Actually brought like over 50 articles right here. Do you have something that you've read that makes you so confident that you can say this? I actually know what the plant studies show, where in greenhouses they grow plants with higher carbon dioxide.

Ooh, what a relief. If we burn tons of CO2 and put it in the atmosphere, we'll just end up with deserts that have foliage and our plants will get bigger. This sounds like win-win. I admire Joe's attempt to get Alex to take responsibility for his claims. But if this doesn't end with Joe telling Alex that he's full of shit and then denouncing him in front of his audience, then all these moments where Alex is clearly full of shit don't matter.

Like they don't mean anything unless like you apologize for having him on. You recognize that you had been tricked by his showmanship and he's a fun guy. I bet he is. I bet he is. I bet he is. Especially if he wants you to think that he's fun. Especially if you're at a Halloween party and he's dressed like a Nazi. Allegedly.

It was just a captain's hat. He's really fun to be in a hot tub with. So say the globalists. True. I just like if this doesn't end with a there we are hoodwinked. It happens. He's a really talented guy and you know, he's really nice. And we had to pretend friendship for 20 years or whatever.

But like he just came on my program and he completely lied to you. My audience that I presumably care about. He said that if you just burn CO2 deserts, we'll have trees growing in them and everything will get big. Yeah. Plants will get big. Oh my God. Right.

You know, it is it is one of those things that makes you really think being a con man is so easy just because people will do everything possible to avoid admitting that they got conned. Being a con man is probably good if you have good marks. Yeah. Like if you like Joe Rogan. Exactly. Like a guy with a hundred million dollars. And the biggest podcast in the world.

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels wasn't about stealing like a guy with five dollars money. Certainly not. Fair enough. So anyway, this is because we're having so much excess CO2 being released in the atmosphere. Sure. We're having a global greening that is just going to turn everything wonderful. So it's a global greening happening countering us losing our atmosphere up until this point. The earth has less atmosphere than it did a million years ago.

And it's like God did this or something where we discovered all this oil or just blind luck that we are terraforming the planet back to an earlier healthier state by taking ancient carbon that was under the ground and putting it back into the atmosphere. But isn't the problem that along the way we're also increasing the temperature of the planet and we are not aligned with a higher temperature. You can. Here's the truth. We don't know.

We don't know. But in 1963, the club of Rome came up with a limits to growth plan and they had models and actuaries and I have copies of this in my film in game. Seminal film. It's free online. In game. Blueberry for global and slightly predicts a virus released to lock things down. Everything's not happening.

That was not what that movie was about and watched it. In the 1963 limits to growth club of Rome plan, they said we believe there'll be a global ice age by 2020 because the last ice age ended about 12,000 years ago and we're set for that. We're going to tell the public that actually carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is bouncing solar radiation off the earth because we've seen volcanoes cause this darkening effect in freezing. So we believe our scientists believe that carbon dioxide is going to make the earth freeze by 2020. And so we've got to have a global regime to take control of all the factories and all the

energy and put a tax in for global government in the name of stopping the ice age. Then by about 1987, they went actually we think it's going to heat up instead. So they flipped the propaganda. Ask anybody you know. Nope. Anybody you know. Alex is lying about his film end game and it's amazing for him to be such a dick as to call his own bullshit documentary Seminal.

What a what an asshole. It was about a fucking road, man. A lot of it was about a road. It was about a road. The publication Limits to Growth came out in 1972, not in 1963. The Club of Rome didn't even exist until 1968. You can easily find a PDF of this document called Limits to Growth. And if you do go ahead and look through it, there's no mention of an ice age or the year 2020.

Sure. In the text, the authors are very clear that they can see demonstrations that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is rising, but that it's unclear how much of that will be able to be sustained by the planet. From page 81, quote, it's not known how much CO2 or thermal pollution can be released without causing irreversible damage in the earth's climate or how much radioactivity led mercury or pesticide can be absorbed by plants, fish or human beings before the vital processes are severely interrupted.

Cut to 50 years later. We know exactly how much it was a while back. Part of this touches on what part of the reason why you should act. Even though we aren't certain what the limits are, it's immediately spelled out in the text, quote, this ignorance about the limits of earth's ability to absorb pollutants should be reason enough for caution in the release of polluting substances. The danger of reaching those limits is especially great because there is typically a long delay between the release of a pollutant into the environment and the appearance of its negative

effect on the ecosystem. Hence why you should be overly cautious. In a certain sense, though, Alex did say something correctly and he started it with what we're doing is returning the earth back to a healthier time and when he said a million years, that makes sense to me because that was before we were here. Alex is 900,000 years old. So in a sense, we will, when we're gone, be creating a much better healthy earth. Well, I mean, after we've killed ourselves, if you're taking some kind of a weird geologic

perspective, then yes, that's not what Alex is talking about. Earth recovered after the dinosaurs, right? We'll be all right. I mean, we won't. In the introduction to this text limits to growth on page 23, they lay out their conclusions, the first of which is quote, if the present growth trends in the world population industrialization, food production and resource depletion continue unchanged, the limits to growth on this planet will be reached sometime within the next 100 years.

That's the conclusion that they made based on their assumptions and estimations at the time in 1972. They've gone back and revisited this multiple times and some updating and some reflection on like, yeah, we might have been off about a little bit of that, whatever. They're off by 30 years. Alex is asserting that in this text, they say that they are aware that an ice age is coming. So they're going to pretend the carbon dioxide is bad in causing the ice age, which I guess is going to lead to them being able to take control of the population.

I'm sick of all these. What plan is this plan? F plan? I hate to surprise you, George. None of that is in this book. Oh, that's a real shock. I have no idea if Alex has ever read limits to growth or if he's just banking on the fact that the audience won't have, but this shit is all made up.

How long is it? What? Longer than four pages? Yeah, it's more than four. You said page 81. So I'm telling you right now, Alex has not read it. No, certainly not. So one of the things that's interesting about this though is that this is a text from 1972.

And you know, I think that you can go back and you can look at some of the stuff and absolutely say like, well, they didn't know what we know now. Totally. And Joe tries to bring this up. Okay. But don't you understand that science back then didn't have as much data as they have now. So their, their models and what they had predicted in 1963 is faulty compared to the information they have.

Yeah. Just like Fauci said, 2.5 million would be dead from COVID. It was 200,000. But worldwide, what is it? Worldwide, uh, tuberculosis killed 20 million people, 1.4 million here last year. Yeah. Well, COVID killed a lot. A couple of times killed a million worldwide.

What? Not even a million worldwide. No. Is that true? Yep. Come on. Yep. Well, how do we know?

Oh, we use human models. Again, they're there. They're our boss. You see here how Alex tries to pivot away from uncertain territory into more familiar and comfortable water by taking Joe's good point that old science didn't know what new science has discovered and hitting his talking points about Fauci and COVID. Alex then goes on to make a sensational absurd claim about COVID, which will now distract conversation, and he will have escaped without having been held to prove any of the claims

that he made about the Club of Rome, the limits to growth, or how excessive CO2 emissions are saving the world. Also, again, TB did not kill 1.4 million people in the United States in 2019. That is a comical number that Alex has used before, and he just uses to minimize COVID. Joe has no idea what the real number is, which is what Alex is betting on when he just throws that out. Alex is being allowed to scatter bullshit all over the place, and these dudes are completely helpless to try to keep up or transform it into something that's responsible

to present to an audience who trusts you. It's not good. Yeah, you would think it about, and this is because I'm not very generous to them, you'd think it about 45 minutes. They would just start making fart noises every time it spoke. But how many hours are we into it now? A bit. But one of the things that I think is really, really difficult is that like, you know,

if Ari Shafir or like Tom Segura came on Joe Rogan's show and they had some weird ideas about COVID, that's not good, but it's going to be a comedian expressing a standpoint. Alex pretends to know like a ton of stuff, so impressionable listeners will treat the things he says differently than something a comedian might say while they're sitting around talking shit. The potential for harm is significantly increased, and this is a show where the host seems unable or unwilling to do the work that's needed to protect this audience from the brand of misinformation Alex sells and the harm that can come from it.

He's treating it like it's just, you know, the same kind of stakes as Ari or Segura in there, and it's not. I mean, he's unwilling to hold himself accountable and protect himself from Alex's narrative. So, of course he can't. Yeah, I mean, he was rationalizing Rudy. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not the best. Yeah.

So, now we get our first point where I want to talk a little bit about Tim Dillon. So, let me back Alex up with the climate changes. Like, they're certainly, you know, we're contributing to man-made global warming, but also, what are you going to do? What are we going to do? Good point. This is perhaps the most disappointing sentence I've ever heard. What kind of South Park ass impotent wearing apathy and defeatism as virtue bullshit is that?

I've tried to be kind to Tim Dillon in the past because, like I said, I mentioned, I think we have some mutual friends. And also, I don't care too much about comedians who say things I disagree with, even if they're guests on Info Wars, because Tim has been. It's not really that interesting for me to get mad about something someone might have been joking about. It's often hard to tell the difference between a racist and an edgy comedian who swings and misses. So typically, I try to stay out of the criticize and comedians game.

We all know how sad Alex sounds when he yells about Bill Maher or Michelle Wolf. That isn't a joke that Tim is saying, though, and it kind of just makes me sad. Is the idea supposed to be that no one has any ideas about what can be done to limit the damage of climate change? I mean, Tim should be aware that people have some suggestions. A year ago, he posted a comedy video on YouTube making fun of Greta Thunberg, a person who's only famous because she's trying to propose solutions to climate change. Yeah, but what are we going to do?

I don't care. And I'm sure Tim's a good guy and a talented standup, but I don't buy it. I doubt it. I don't buy this kind of edge. Am I supposed to believe that Tim thinks that even if all the scientists aren't making up climate change, that there's nothing we should be doing? It really just feels like an attempt to like it too hard of an attempt to be right wing edgy. And I just don't buy it.

I just it rings hollow to me. Oh, yeah. We are contributing to climate change. What are you going to do about it? Do you know what bums me out is no one's funny. That's on this. Yeah, that's really bumming me out because the only reason you have Tim Dillon on there as a third party to this is to come and come with the joke.

I think he likes Alex too much or come with the Eddie Bravo swings. Yeah, that's what you got to have. You got to have that fucking element that you got to have me screaming nonsense. I don't disagree. You know, and it's like he's just another deferential asshole. Yeah, like a slightly less pretending to know things, Alex. Yeah, it's it's a I think it's a mistake that will probably linger. And that is that you should never break the format.

And that is that if Alex is there, so is Bravo. Yep. Like you just you found a winning combination that allows you to pretend we're just having fun. Yeah, yeah. We got Eddie Bravo here. What are you going to take anything anybody here says the world is flat. Exactly. You can't take any of this seriously.

Eddie Bravo is talking. Right. Eddie was the thing that kind of allowed you to dodge any kind of criticism. And he added an element of some kind of unpredictability. He had chaos. Yeah. And and that's missing from this. I just don't I don't think it's a good idea to have anybody plus Alex plus Joe Rogan.

Yeah. Unless it's unless it's Eddie. Unless it's somebody who can temper the bullshit that's flying like insane back and forth. I mean, conceivably, it would be fun for me to be the third person. But again, I would never do that. And I have no interest in it. But someone who does understand the things that Alex is lying about would be very helpful. And it would create.

I mean, Alex would leave that. But like you can't just have Tim Dillon as an as the third participant. It really the show suffers for it. And quite frankly, I think that I don't think that anyone's going to enjoy this nearly as much as the other two. It's not it's not as good. It's not as interesting. And it's not funny. And a large portion of it is Alex talking about how he wants Rogan to drink with him.

But it's sober October. So Rogan can't. But Rogan says that he will drink on election night because he's doing the live stream. Sure. And it turns out they announced on this episode that Rogan and Kyle Kolinsky are doing a team up stream of the election. And Alex insinuates himself as a guest on that. And over and over again, Alex keeps being like, I bullied my way on here.

We're going to drink together on the election night. You're going to be fucked up on election night. What a pathetic asshole. It's very sad. That is bad. Like just looking at it on like a personal level, a human level, it bummed me out. It really it was desperate. It was needy.

It just it's unbecoming for a character who's supposed to be as strong and alpha as Alex. For him to be so that's the type of shit that a baby comic does to somebody who's like six years in and they're like, hey, man, you're you run that really good show and we're good friends. And you're like, and it's like, if you're a baby comic, everybody tries it once or twice. That happens. But if you're like a 10 years in guy doing this shit or a 26 years in, you're not doing well.

Yeah. Yeah. Not so good. We know those guys. Yeah. So Tim Dillon, like I said, I think that he comes off better than Alex just because, I mean, how could you not not? Yeah.

But I don't know. I don't think that he says all that much. That's all that interesting. He just sounds like a guy who likes Alex was watched too much in for wars. Isn't really all that critical, but thinks adopting contrarian positions makes up for lack of critical thought. Yeah. He's he's the guy who's wearing a hat is like, this is a personality.

No. He's a guy who's wearing a free Guillain shirt. That's fair. Yeah. That's very fair. It's metaphorical. Instead of it, instead of a hat, it is. Yeah.

Yeah. Fair enough. So in this next clip, you really see like the two different kind of realities that are happening simultaneously in this episode. Joe, we have the documents. I'm sucking on this cigar like it's a jelly donut. I'm hoping I get the weed on the inside. I'm like, I'm licking the outside.

What do you got there? A piece of paper? Take it. What does it say? What does it say? What does it say? I think it's confirming what I just said. Looking forward to the end of humanity.

Well, what is this? See? Okay. But it's a person who wrote this. It's Adam Kersh. He's probably got a pistol in his mouth right now. No, that's the Wall Street Journal cover story. I don't really mean that, Adam.

I apologize. That's the Wall Street Journal cover story. May I please tell you what I came here for? Do people not realize that saying that Alex has documents is a joke? Like Tim is clearly making a joke when he says that they have documents. Yeah. It's a bit at this point. Yeah.

And the point of the bit is that Alex doesn't have any documents and he's making all this shit up. The article titled Looking Forward to the End of Humanity isn't about what Alex claims it is. It's just an opinion piece that actually is pretty skeptical about the possibilities that many theorists believe could come with a transhumanist future. The headline works for Alex, but because he lacks any depth and he hopes he can just blow people's mind with optics, he doesn't go any further than that. The actual article is not about being eager for the end of humanity, though it might be able to make it.

You might be able to make it sound like that. Sure, sure, sure. Alex has every responsibility to know what this article is about, because he's brought it up a thousand times in the past and he's not. And because Brogan doesn't have the time to read this entire op-ed, he doesn't have the ability to come in and be like, that's not what that's about. Yeah. This is actually really skeptical about the widening gap between classes that could happen

with the implementation of technological supplementation. The article uses as an example how you could buy yourself out of war if you got drafted in the early days of our country. The article is skeptical. It's not pro the end of humanity. Sure, sure. And even just the whole presentation of it, why are you acting like it's not a joke that Alex has documents?

You're making that joke. Yeah. You're laughing at that joke because it's funny because he doesn't have documents. Yeah. I think a strategy Brogan should have tried, right, is sure you're live streaming it or whatever. I don't think they did. They don't laugh. I think this one was recorded because of Jamie's COVID.

Oh, that's fair. So then here's what you do, all right? After the show, you just go in and edit in all the things that you wish Joe had said. You'd have him do voiceover later, right? And you edit it all in. And then it looks like Joe is a fucking dynamite interviewer. And Alex is just saying random ass things in response to it. Just drop this in.

Alex, you have no idea what you're talking about. Done. Just keep putting that like that. He's a dick drop for you. Alex, fuck you. So Joe and Alex in this next clip, they argue a little bit about driverless cars. And I'm just at this point, a lot of eye rolling. Driverless cars don't know a wreck up ahead or what to do.

They have more accidents. Steve Wozniak, as I was saying earlier, the co-founder of Apple says, the best AI isn't a million percent close to how good an ant's brain is. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. When they first developed cars, they said, well, how are you going to take them? There's no roads. Sure. AI powered.

They built roads. Here's the deal. But do you understand that the AI that's powering these cars now is not as good? Do you understand the people running the AI are predatory anti-humans that say they want to get rid of us? You know, Musk is not a predatory anti-humans. No, I didn't say he was. But I understand he's working on autonomous vehicles.

He said beware those that speak of AI gods. Yes. Okay. A lot of people are worried that, look, Elon is more concerned. Don't give me one of those. You keep that shit away from me, mother fucker. No, no, no, no.

02:05:47,460 --> 02:05:48,100 He doesn't drink. He's trying to give everyone booze. Yeah, of course he is. Uh, yeah. We're at about the point where things sort of like, I mean, I would say that for me, intellectually, the point where everything broke apart, I mean, there's the beginning. But the part where it got really dicey was the CO2 is going to save the world. It's carbon monoxide.

Right. That was where I was like, oh, we're in trouble. But around here is kind of where you're in a place where it's like, oh, he's, he's starting to deteriorate a little bit. Yeah, he's, it's hitting him. Yeah. And I would say that driverless cars argument is Joe really trying to explain to Alex what these conversations that people who have concerns about AI are and the reality that future AI won't

be, uh, you know, what we have now. Yeah. Yeah. And Alex just isn't there for that conversation. No, that's not interesting to him. Nope. He has documents and sources that he needs to bring up about how evil these folks are. Look how calculators were great.

No one knows how to do math now. Look how phones are great. No one knows their numbers anymore. All the statistics show that the science of technology is making us dumb. And that's why they wrote the big article, the co-owner of Sun Microsystems in 2000. Bill Joy wrote, why the future doesn't need us. He explains he went to a top billionaire tech conference and they made the decision to not let humans sit around and play video games in the future.

They were just going to slowly phase this out and kill everybody. Stop. They're not trying to kill. Okay. Pull up. Why the future doesn't need us. But why, why do you think they're trying to kill everybody? But why wouldn't they?

Can we reverse? Send you to the question. Because we're called useless eaters. I don't think they're trying to kill people. I think they're trying to improve what a person is. What I think we're doing. Oh, by chopping our son's balls off. Okay.

We're going to go down another rabbit hole, you son of a bitch. This is the distraction tactics that Alex uses because he can't, he can't stay on any, he has to keep moving or else he'll get found out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he's a shark of lies. Yeah. Yeah. He is the piranha of truth and the shark of lies.

So this is the type of show. So like four years ago before we had done, before we had started. Yeah. I could have been the third wheel on this show. Instead of Tim Dillon. Maybe. I would, it would have been like me screaming and shit, but I wouldn't have the white hot furious hatred that I have now.

Yeah. There was a decent chance that five years ago, if I'd seen this, like knowing what I knew about Alex five years ago. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a chance that I could have gotten some entertainment value out of it a little bit. Totally. But I will also say that I probably would have been a little bit depressed.

Oh, I would have been screaming. He does not come off well, especially towards the end. And it's not, it's not one of those like ways to learn kind of sad. It's just kind of like really sad, like deeply sad. I just don't even, I don't, I don't want to act like I'm teasing this or anything. It's just a bummer. It's it ends like a bummer. Good.

Anyway, that's how I want Alex's life to end. I believe that I have made the point a number of times that Alex Jones does not prepare for anything. I, I've seen him prepare. He wakes up at six every morning. He reads hours of articles. I should say about that last clip. I, I neglected to say this because I talk about it all the time, but that article from

Bill Joy did not say, did not say any of that. Alex is making that up completely. We've spoken about it ad nausea. There's a small passage inside that article where Bill Joy is quoting the unabomber and that's what Alex is talking about. Anyway, I said Alex doesn't prepare and I need to correct the record. Call me David Brock because I'm correct in the record. We did not talk about what we're going to cover pre to this.

We're going to talk about a lot of things. Read this. This is what I wrote last night. Okay. You ready? The silicon cult weed for you. I want you to take it down and not the silicon cult. Okay.

Go ahead. It's another article. No, I wrote this. Oh, you wrote talking points. The silicon cult defying the enemy, the war on carbon announced up front that I'm not really a liberal or conservative. I want a pro human future. Fuck off.

Please listen to me and hear me out. Let's stop right there. Let's stop right there. Let's stop right there. Alex is reading off his notes. Yep. Please announce up front. I am not liberal or conservative.

Please listen to me. 02:09:58,820 --> 02:09:59,780 I'm a pro human. Jesus. This is when I turn to my like a stop record. Stop record. You don't get to read that. You don't get to read that.

Start record again. Okay. But this is one of these points that Rogan does a lot of work trying to help Alex push that idea that he's not left or right off. You get called a neo conservative. You get called an alt right. You get called a far right person. When I first met you, you were protesting against George W. Bush.

And you were saying that what he was doing and what he was trying to usher in was essentially going to be the downfall Western civilization. Even before it was elected. Yes. I remember that. So when people say Alex Jones is far right guy, I'm like, he's complicated. He's he's really against corruption more than he's against any particular party. Gerbils hated corruption.

He just found that the right was less apt to censor you and more apt to listen to your ideas. Exactly. And I know we're all not stoned today. And so we're being a little aggressive. But but here's the old election night. If I'm gracious enough to be here, or if you're gracious enough, I'll be here. We'll we'll we'll get hammered. But listen, let's get into Bohemian Grove.

What? Yeah, fart noises. That's it. That's all I'm doing. Yeah. All right. Let's get into Bohemian Grove. You know, Kanye said George W. Bush doesn't care about black people.

And now he supports Trump. These things can change, Dan. True. And I think it's important to always recognize that what you're doing can be altered by why you're doing it. Ah, so if you are protesting Bush, because you're further right than Bush, there you go. It's not then suspicious you protesting Obama.

It is unsurprising. You will also be to the right of Obama. You got it. If you are extreme militia right wing, of course, someone like George W. Bush isn't going to be good for your business, or at least complaining about him will be good for your business. So I think that Rogan needs to do a little bit of exploration about that. Consider why does Alex not like or like the people that he does.

You'll find a greater consistency there than, oh, he just hates corruption. God, do you know what's crazy, though? What I think is the wildest part of this is that all of this stuff he's saying on here, you could have planned. You could have seen him saying this shit. If you had listened to a show for the past week and a half to the point where you could literally have listened to a show and been like, I'm just going to grab a couple of clips at random.

And whenever Alex's show, yeah. And whenever Alex says something, you could just be like, oh, that's cool. I can actually cut a clip from your show. If you sing the exact fucking opposite, you moron. Well, yeah. You know, like that kind of shit is there for you if you want it. Some of it, yeah. And one of the things I think is interesting is that he also says a lot

of exactly the same things like talking about the volcanoes. Right. You know, like, and that's because I think he recorded this before almost 100 percent guarantee it. So he might have done these on the same day that he did the volcano. We could be getting the same rifts. Yeah. It's weird.

Yeah. Anyway, we get back to Ted Gunderson in this next clip because that guy did more things. Cool. According to Ted Gunderson, the first time I've heard about this was from this former high level FBI agent who was going to be the FBI director, but he wouldn't go along with corruption. So he wasn't. So we're going to investigate ghosts.

And he blew up like the things like the Franklin scandal. And he's been at the finders and the finders club, which was huge. Which was where the CIA was caught trafficking. You know, the finders is a cult that was caught trafficking children. And the CIA squashed the Florida. And then Gunderson got it rated in D.C. and found a whole CIA facility with the snuff films. Telex machine.

And so he told me about all this. And I thought he was crazy. Yeah. Even though he was Ted Gunderson. You told us about it. And we actually pulled up one of those stories. And I was correct. Yes, you're correct.

What? So we went into we went into the finders situation in a past episode with those children that were found with two guys and in a van in Florida. And spice it to say neither Alex or Tim could prove any of this stuff that they're talking about. First things first, the finders investigation did not begin until 1987. By which point Gunderson was retired from the FBI and was ankle deep in the McMartin tunnel hysteria.

The scandal as Tim Dillon put it. On Ted Gunderson's website, you can find the 79 page report that he filed on the finders case, which is a chaotic mess. And none of it really proves anything. The most interesting part of the report is a part about murder hornets. No, it's a report that was filed supposedly by Ramon Martinez, who was a U.S. customs agent who was on the scene for a raid of a warehouse in D.C. that an informant had claimed was connected with a satanic cult called the finders.

Martinez writes of seeing proof of child exploitation and an almost astonishing level of criminal sophistication. What makes this report interesting is that it doesn't appear to be fake, since it's referenced in the FBI finders files that were released recently. However, if you consult the files the FBI released, there's reference to follow up on the claims from Martinez's report. Ooh, that's not good for Martinez. And how there was no evidence of anything like what he describes that anyone else can confirm.

In fact, the FBI vault files include a report of a 1994 interview with the Washington Metro field office agent who was present at the raid in question, and it doesn't corroborate anything. Quote, name redacted, advised that during his review of both material from the computers and documents revealed nothing relating to any criminal activity. Further, there's the logging of a 1993 interview with a representative of the Arlington, National Center for Exploited and Missing Children who was present for the raid, having formally been a detective with the Metro Police Department.

Quote, he did not see any evidence of criminal activity. Because of the anomaly of this report from Martinez and other unsubstantiated gossip, there's been a lingering conspiracy that the CIA was running the finders, but again, this has never been demonstrated or proven at all. Weirdly, the FBI vault includes a bunch of references to investigations into whether or not there was a connection between the finders at the CIA. And it feels like if the CIA were running this group for clandestine reasons, they probably wouldn't cooperate with an FBI investigation into the cover-up they carried

out surrounding it, but maybe I'm a sheeple. I don't know. It sucks. It sucks. The truth dies in obscurity and is lost, but bullshit just lives forever. I think it's more interesting and people respond to shiny things. Yeah, nobody likes talking about how Reagan also ignored a massive pandemic and killed thousands upon thousands of people.

So here's a list of the claims that are being made by Tim and Alex that they absolutely could not prove beyond saying something like, come on. One, the finders were caught trafficking children. They can't prove that. Two, the CIA squashed the Florida investigation of the group. They can't prove that. Three, Ted Gunderson got the DC warehouse raided. Four, said raid found a CIA facility.

Please prove that. Five, the raiding uncovered snuff films. Can't prove that. There are at least five major claims these dudes are throwing out in this clip that they would never be able to come close to proving. And at the end here, Joe, signing off on this shit. This is irresponsible coverage. And honestly, I hope Tushy is proud of what they're sponsoring.

Hey, Tushy, you guys are doing great. Yeah. Shoot some water up Alex Jones's ass. So I got really bored for a stretch here. And maybe that's just because, like, is this exhausting to listen to? It's constant and up bullshit and fast paced. Alex is all over the place. Joe's trying to reel him in.

It's a mess. They just started talking about Bohemian Grove and skull and bones. And I just kind of was like, pass, pass. But then Alex does say something about skull and bones that we can actually, yeah, this is a little interesting. Descendants sue skull and bones over Geronimo's bones. Documents show George H. Bush and George W. Bush's grandfather robbed Geronimo's grave members, members of the Secret Society allegedly steal valuable things and put them

in tomb. Great grandson says Geronimo should be burned, buried in accordance with tradition. Federal law protects Native Americans rights to their family members remains. And let's expand on that. What he just said, because this guy's only studying that. He's talking about Tim has done a study because Tim has brought up that Bush stole Geronimo's skull and then they've pulled up this news article that says that Geronimo's great grandson is suing skull and bones to get that skull back, which proves that they have the skull.

This clip pretty neatly shows how you won't learn anything from this show. If you listen to this, you'll think that Tim just claimed that Bush stole Geronimo's skull and that Rogan pulled up an article that confirms it. In reality, they've both proven nothing. This case that Geronimo's great grandson filed was from 2009. And in August 2010, Judge Richard Roberts dropped the case. He dismissed it. And the reason is actually kind of interesting, but you'd never know if you just listen to these dudes.

The issue is that Geronimo is officially buried in a grave at Fort Sill, which is on U.S. property. In order to dig up bodies on federal property, you need to get the permission of the government. And the plan of this suit was to sue the U.S. government, President Obama, and the Secretaries of Defense and the Army to gain permission to dig up Geronimo and bury him, quote, near his birthplace at the head of the Gila River in New Mexico. However, in order for a lawsuit to be filed against the U.S. government, first, a judge has to decide whether or not the case justifies suspending the government's sovereign immunity. Judge Roberts found that this case did not have established the cause to waive this

immunity, so the case was dismissed. The plan was to transport the remains to the Gila River. And in the process, determine if, as the legend has it, Geronimo's skull had been stolen. The great grandson's lawyer said later that, quote, he will eventually reopen his cases against Yale and Skull and Bones if need be, but not until after the Fort Sill remains are exhumed. They don't know if they have caused a sue Yale or Skull and Bones until the body's been exhumed, and then they can see if there's a skull there. At that point, I guess they'd have to build a case that it was more than just urban legend and hearsay that would hold up in court,

and then they can go ahead and successfully sue Yale, I guess. Personally, I think they should let the family dig up the remains. I was going to say, like, what, what judge is like, oh, look, just because Colonial stole your grandfather's bones doesn't mean that you have right to sue the government. I'm not saying that that's a right decision, personally, but I'm just saying that is what they decide. Everyone should just be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, we stole his bones, my bad. The bottom line is that there's much more to this story, and it's interesting to see, like, how the world works. This is not a suit primarily targeting Skull and Bones or Yale or Bush, it's about getting Geronimo's remains from Fort Sill, and if the skull is gone, then crossing that

bridge at that point. If you just listen to people like Alex or Tim or Joe, you'll get a more fun, kind of wacky version of the story that's really exciting, but ultimately, they have no idea if anything they're saying is true or real. You get the impression that you're learning something, but you're actually just listening to fucked up people ramble about something they read in a blog or skimmed. Skimmed would be a better way. Man, that's so fucked up. We're just keeping it. It's not fun. Just fucking keeping his bones. Yeah, we just get them. What the fuck are you talking about? Just give me the fucking bones. You don't care. Is it a tourist spot? Yeah, it is. I'm sure it is. Well, guess what? It should be a tourist spot where it belongs. Yeah,

I spent a while trying to figure out why the government didn't just say cool. Yeah, yeah, go for it. And I couldn't really get to the bottom of it. And I was running low on time. Yeah, yeah. I am very curious about that, but I can't figure this out. Maybe that he did steal the skull. Maybe they're protecting George. You make an interesting point and you could speculate about that. You also fucking couldn't prove it. Not going to prove a goddamn thing. Yeah. So if you use that as evidence that they're protecting George W. George or HW Bush or Prescott, then you're just as faulty as Alex. Yeah, what's weird, but it reminds me so much of like so many times if you go to a museum, you see something and like this was taken by this explorer and you're like, no,

he stole that. He stole it. Why are we keeping this here? This does not belong to us, sir. It's like Indiana Jones. No, it's just in a museum. So it's okay that we stole it and now we get to keep it and show it to all the people and you don't get anything for it. It's not an ideal way to operate. Yeah, that's probably not good. So they talk a little bit about Epstein and Bill Clinton being all guilty. Sure. And Tim, to his credit, asks like, hey, do you actually think that Trump's clean in all this? Sure. Do you think Trump's clean in everything in this extent? I mean, Oh, you want to get the M.O. on Trump? Well, I would like to because I know that you're I'll give you. No, no. Here we go. My only superpower is that I really try to give you

the accurate thing. Doesn't mean I'm always right about 95% of the time. That's why earlier went on that rabbit troll when I'm saying, listen, Trump doesn't like lobbyists. He fired them all trying to make the best decisions for everybody in a pragmatic free market to not have one side of trade deals. But his blindside was by him not letting lobbyists in, everyone around him became unofficial lobbyist. That became a 20 minute rabbit rabbit. What's I'm not bitching about? Okay. But let me tell you about Trump. What do you what does that have to do with Trump and Epstein? Anyway, I hope I hope that's not. Let me tell you about Trump. I don't want to talk about him in Epstein. So it's a lobbyist. There are tons of lobbyists. And anyways, we're moving on. When

Alex responded to Tim's question, they're laughing at him. They're they're laughing at this dumb performance. They're like, he's not going to tell us anything. That's why they're laughing. Yep. When he's like, you want the skinny on Trump, they're laughing because like, oh, this is what happens right before he doesn't tell us things. Yeah, I got it right. Anyway, this this next clip is the first point where I really got the sense that Joe is trying to explain to Alex that Alex is annoying. But Joe, you said I'm hard to deal with. Well, because you talk over people when they're talking, you don't let them get the full. You've been talking a lot. You get you don't let people get a full thought out. They're in Tim doesn't like when he's having his thoughts

the sensors are good. What I was saying is he's talking and you jump in. And the problem is I know you have some things to say, but then you fuck with the thing that's coming out of the other person's mouth. Explain to me how the sensors are loving people. That's what you're trying to not saying they love people. I'm saying they don't they're not looking at it correctly. Because the way they're looking at it, they think they're doing a good thing and they're going to usher forth some utopian world of communication where people are only saying the things they agree with. The problem with that is you don't find out who's right unless you get everybody talking. But I agree. It's worse than that. You can't have an echo chamber. It's dangerous.

Man, it is hard to listen to this at points like this one. Like it's pretty clear that Joe is fairly annoyed probably because he's never had to deal with showtime Alex while he himself had to be sober, which must be the worst. Oh, that's got to be terrible. I appreciate where Joe is going with this thought trying to find a motive for people wanting folks like Alex off social media that isn't their demons and they want tyranny. But I also think that Joe's wrong. I don't think that people want folks like Alex off social media sites because they want everyone to say the right same things. I think they want him off because he can't control himself and he represents a danger to people. So deciding that his behavior is not welcome on your platform is actually an

act of customer service for your other users. I've never heard of anyone getting kicked off Twitter for suggesting a conservative tax plan or expressing unconventional views in terms of foreign policy. In the case of the people that they try to rally around, they weren't punished for ideas, but for a behavior that's not welcome in various platforms. Social media kicking people like that out is not saying that they want everyone to say all the same right things. It's saying that there are certain rules that people have to follow if they want to be treated like an adult. And if you refuse to follow them, you can be kicked out. In this sense, Joe's argument is actually a straw man, but he's coming from a more open minded, less malicious place. So I can kind of appreciate

that. I would just again respond to this sort of thing by introducing a conversation about what sorts of behavior he would be okay with people getting kicked off a platform for and then see where the conversation goes from there. All I hear is people going like, oh, you're going to kick these raccoons out just because they have rabies. That's what you're going to do. We're censoring raccoons for having a disease now. Now you guys are evil people. You're just not going to let these rabid raccoons wander around free biting people left and right. You're terrible sensors. You guys think you're so great. Now I can't stab somebody with a samurai sword. It's not a knife. It's a sword. It's different. So in this next clip, we get another fucking Gunderson moment.

Jesus. And I didn't take the bait fully on this one because I was too tired. I'd already done two Gunderson rodeos, but I do think that something is brought up here that I think is worthwhile to discuss. This is in relation to the Franklin scandal. John DeKamp was involved with that whole affair and like blowing a whistle. And one of his associates was William Colby, the former head of the CIA who died. And this is so illustrative of conspiracy thinking. I think it's really important to take a moment to look at things like this. William Colby went to William Colby and William Colby basically said to the camp, listen, you're going up force, you're going up against forces that are way too powerful. You don't even know what you're knocking on here.

And then William Colby, I think, changes mind and said, fuck it. You know what? We should stop doing like let's, if we're going to fight this, let's fight it. And then a little while later, William Colby, who was in great health, has an accident in his canoe, is found dead in a river right by his house with his dinner still on the table. So it's like nobody, nobody gets up in the middle of the dinner to go canoeing. So this has been a common thing for everybody. Whereas if you go against these people, you find you're dead. He was 76 when he drowned, though. William Colby, Director of Central Intelligence, chose to disclose some of the nation's darkest secrets to save the spy service he loved, drowned on April 27th in a

tributary. They killed him. He was 76. Great. Thanks guys. Thanks guys. So honestly, at this point, I didn't have the patience to discuss another giant satanic cabal ring claim that these dudes can't prove. So I'm going to punt on that. We'll do the, we'll talk about Franklin's stuff later. Sure. I just pulled this clip because it demonstrates how Joe is trying to bring the slightest bit of rationality to the conversation, but it just doesn't matter. These dudes have decided that this guy who dared to stand up against the man was killed because he did it. Nah, he was murdered. The problem here is that kind of Alex's whole explanation for why no one has killed him yet is that he's too high profile, but the person they're claiming they did kill was the former

head of the CIA. Not a media figure, though. Sure. High profile. Nobody has any idea who this guy is. There's no evidence that William Colby was murdered, but you see the piece of evidence that Tim keeps pointing to. His dinner was still on the table. Exactly. You do not go out canoeing while your dinner is still on the table, which I think is very stereotyping behavior. That's somebody who's never had a mid meal canoe trip before. Right. And if you had, you would know once you do it, you'll never go back. This is a misrepresentation of something from the original news article about the search for Colby published in the Associated Press on April 30th, 1996, quote, investigators found dinner dishes on a table and clam shells in the kitchen sink. This would tend

to imply that possibly they'd already eaten or maybe not imply anything specific at all. But the version that Tim is repeating is that dinner was on the table, which would be kind of weird. Why would a guy go canoeing in between serving and eating his dinner? That's the kind of question that gets conspiracy theorists aroused. But in this case, it's actually an inaccurate claim based on initial reports, which is really often the case with these guys. Also, Colby's wife, quote, had spoken to her husband at about 7pm Saturday, and he had said that even though he felt tired, he was going canoeing anyway. Also from that article, quote, neighbors said the water was rough Saturday and not good for canoeing. But according to those who knew him, he was a

creature of habit and that dude loved canoeing. So he's a mid 70s old man on choppy waters that are bad for canoeing and he must have been murdered and just eat a bunch of clams. He must have been murdered. Yeah. Only explanation I could see. You can easily find the medical examiner's report of his death, which determined that it was an accident. He was a little boozed up with a .08 blood reading, but the real important finding was that he had calcified atherosclerosis in his coronary arteries, suggesting some possible heart trouble. Yeah. According to the examiner's opinion, quote, he had severe calcified atherosclerosis, which would predispose him to a stroke or heart attack. Decomposition, however, would dissolve clots and the fatty material in atheroma. You see,

it would it ended up taking nine days for them to find his body. So in that time that he was in the water, those signs of a stroke or a heart attack would be gone. But the underlying signs of him being at great risk for those things would still be there. The medical examiner also reports, quote, the contents of his stomach are consistent with his last reported meal and indicate his death was shortly after his dinner. I guess that would have to do with those clamshells that were in the sink. That would make sense. But of course, Alex and Tim know better. The man was clearly killed. Why else would he go to dinner? He was murdered. He was murdered. His dinner was on the table. Seafproof. So I mean, but I feel like that's really indicative. Yeah. Like the thing that Tim

has to hang his hat on that makes this so clearly a conspiracy is that his dinner was on the table. He brings it up multiple times within a minute of trying to defend this claim. And it's not true. It's based on this misrepresentation of early news reports. I would say that the lesson here is, yeah, sometimes, you know, conspiracy theorists will say something that's like, yeah, that is weird. Look into it. And oftentimes you'll find like, oh, this is being misrepresented. What we shouldn't say is, yeah, that is weird. We should say, yeah, that would be weird. I'm going to go look into it. Yeah. And then I'll come back and tell you that it is weird, but also not true. Yeah. So at this point, I feel like this, this show is getting a little bit uncomfortable.

Yeah. Joe, you were great on friends. I wasn't on friends. It's a joke. Who do you think is great? You think Trump? I don't know. If you were a friend's character, who would you be? You know, I'd be Matt LeBlanc, right? You'd be Jennifer Aniston. I don't think so. Hilarious. Hilarious. Who is Matt LeBlanc? His name is Joe. Jennifer is the most successful. I identify as Jennifer Aniston. He was dumb. I'm dumb. Perfect. Wouldn't you like to have a dentist like Jennifer Aniston and horrible bosses? Good stuff. This is really uncomfortable. That is your boss at six o'clock after work, bunch of people after work function. Your boss is like, look at how funny I can be when I'm not

in the office. Yeah, I'm cutting loose. And you're like, you are a deeply uncomfortable and sad person. Yeah. So Alex gets to talking about how the Democrats have admitted that they're going to crash the economy to get Biden into office. Sounds right to me. And man, this is where I was like, all right, this is close to a basketball game because Joe is like, Joe nails this one. This is a dunk. Okay. They want to kill the U.S. economy. China's been open for six months. They admit it's leaked out that they're doing this to kill the U.S. economy. Remember, it's leaked out how? Oh, it's come out. Democratic Party reports. It's been stated. You heard Democrats all of the news say we want a depression to make Trump look bad. Who said this?

Bill Maher. Yeah, but Bill Maher is not a part of the Democratic Party. He's a comic. I know, but I used a public joke, but he jokes around about that. Like, look, okay, we'll crash the economy. Okay, well, regardless, when Jews try to or Baptist in New York, try to have an event, the police show up and arrest them. But then when Antifa or BLM was growing burn stuff down, the mayor says it's great. Again, pivoting, can't quite handle the pushback on being like, Hey, Bill Maher is not a source. You can't use that as a source. I was like, get his ass. Get his ass. Yeah, man. Yeah. So Joe pushes back more on this, the idea of using Bill Maher as an example. And like, man, it's just like he's, he's totally right.

But I want to bring you back to what you're saying about crashing economy. You use Bill Maher as an example. And I just don't think that's a credible example because he's a comic. Well, he said that. Yeah, but he's a comic. And they always say he's not a politician coverage the news people now. That's what Colbert and all them poses. Alex, you're, you can't use him as an example of someone who is a politician who is called at least for the economy. But strategically, if I was a Democrat, I would get the fuck out up again until Trump was out, right? Agreed. Right. I mean, that's agreed. If you want to China, China, China wants to shut down. China admits they're using the virus to keep us shut

down. Do you think he's a bio web? Well, I could give you an hour long treatise on COVID-19. Okay, well, we'll get to that momentarily. I don't want to anger you though. Before before we know, I love being here. I'll sit here and like tell fart jokes if you want. I'd rather get drunk at this. Have a good time. We know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is really, I struggle to watch this and imagine how any kind of like respect or pretense can be maintained by Joe and Tim. Yeah. Like how can they not, if they entered this conversation with respect or admiration for what Alex does, how can it not be disappearing right in front of their eyes and has nothing to do with him being drunk either? It has everything to do with this being like,

you can't answer basic questions. And when you are asked to give specifics about things like the Democrats want to crash the economy to get rid of Trump, you have a fucking comedian. Yep. That's what you have speaking for the entire Democratic party. And I mean, honestly, personally, I really enjoyed that because it's something I talk about. Of course it is something that I've figured out. I've reverse engineered from Alex's rhetoric. Yes. And to see him be forced to admit that and explain to his face. You can't do that. That's stupid. That's fun. But it doesn't matter unless Joe says, I can't believe I believe this guy. He's a piece of shit. Sorry. Please don't trust this stuff that comes out of his mouth. He's not my friend. He's using me. He will not

be on my election special. I would at least like that. Yeah. But I don't foresee that coming. So now, obviously, Bill Maher is not a good example. You can't use that. So Joe pushes a little bit more and tries to get Alex to give another citation. You said something that I want you to back up. You said that the Democrats are trying, I'm not denying the possibility that this is the case. But this seems like, if that was the case, it would be a grand conspiracy that would at least have, you'd have to have some evidence of this to make that statement that they're trying or they want to crash the economy because they want to maintain power and to change censorship and to change the way there are laws. Okay, we've had Governor Newsom. We've had Governor

Cuomo. Whitmer, Cuomo, exactly. All say the economy isn't going to be open because Trump's done a bad job. We're not going to open until he's gone. And then Whitmer's even come out and just- Wait a minute. Newsom has openly said that. You sure? Yeah, type it in. I mean, I'm- But what do you think he said? I've never, I've listened- Type it into what? An abacus? I've become a critic of Newsom because of his, this, he's become an autocrat.

He's become- Because winery's open. But there's a lot of issues, right? There's a lot of issues so that they close so many things. Joe, Joe, Joe, globalism was about selling America off and bankrupting us under clowered and pivoted strategies. That's fine, but don't, don't change the subject. I'm not. Specifically what Newsom has said.

He's really trying to change the subject. He's trying real hard to change the subject. Yeah, because- He does not like that subject. No, no, he knows that upon closer examination, he's going to be shown to have misrepresented these quotes and he can't handle that. So he tries everything in his power to spin the conversation off into something else, hoping people will forget.

And he does succeed. He gets Joe to end up talking about COVID. When, when you say the deaths increase, that is going to happen. The question is by what rate and how many, right? You talked to normal flu and, and pneumonia and morbidity like they did this year. And you add that to the number. They've already run the same scam. And so whatever, they don't count flu as a death or pneumonia anymore.

They only like, they all count of COVID because they get money on the chart. Right. They get 50 plus thousand dollars when they call it a COVID death plus when they say that. They get 13,000 cents of COVID patient and they get 29,000 or whatever extra when they intubate somebody. And so now since when is like Congress saying how to do medicine? Well, through like Medicare payments, but be that as it may, I'm going to now introduce a new segment called cheers and jeers.

Okay. Very standard name for a segment. That is a bit standard. Yeah. Jeers. Yes. Joe Rogan for allowing Alex to do that. They get money for COVID patients, bullshit.

And the flu deaths. Big Jeers. That deserves some pushback. Oh yeah. Cheers to Joe Rogan for, I think that he didn't push on that because he's still trying to focus on this new, some comment. And he's given it a shot. Yes.

He's, he's given it a go. I think he's been like, okay, if he said that, we should be able to find the proof of that. Sure. He's trying to stay in the pocket and dodge, dodge jabs. And unfortunately he's getting hit with a couple of things like dumb COVID. But he's letting that blow glance off him. God damn it. He's literally glass Joe.

What did Gavin Newsom say though that when you said that he said it's not going to get better until Trump's out of office? Well, it's, it's Whitmer that said that specifically and he said Cuomo because I remember that too, but he was just basically like, well, I want to be friends with Trump. There's been a bad response. We've got to keep the lockdown going and, you know, until Trump does this wrong, until we have a change, it's going to continue on. And then it's always about the power grab.

Like, oh, it's two years. We have to do it. Now it's, now it's, first it's 15 days to keep the hospitals empty. And then it's, then it's, oh, six months. And now it's two years. And then Gates said, like a week ago, it's 10 years. And now they've got the people fouching others saying, no, it never ends. You never shake hands.

And under the UN rules, they say, don't look at someone and turn your head. So in Europe, you can type this in. Citizens in the UK told, do not look at other people and turn your head. It's cult programming, man. I think it's a pretty common talking point. And some people agree with it. Like a lot of Democrats would say, yeah, it's not going to get better until Trump is out because Trump has made a mess of it.

So Tim is like, this is basically his purpose. Yeah. Or not purpose, because I don't know if it's intentional, but the, the role that he fills throughout most of this is trying to restate insane things that Alex says. Recontextualize ridiculous shit Alex says to make it seem slightly more reasonable. Right. Yeah.

But also not what Alex is saying. Exactly. Because saying that, you know, predicting that things aren't going to get better as long as Trump is in charge is not the same thing as threatening to keep everything closed until you get into power. In fact, I would say they're a very, very different thing. Yes, they are. And I think that Tim is trying to muddy that water, whether it's an intentional act or not.

I think it just might be based on his predisposition. I mean, I think it can never be overstated or stated too often. These are three very stupid people all sitting around a table talking shit. Maybe they're at least don't know what they're talking about. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know if they're stupid in all facets. I think that Joe Rogan is a pretty smart guy when he applies himself and and seems to want

to like he, he, he, he's not a dumb, dumb idiot completely. No, no, no. It's a lot of bad positions and seems to have a lot of what I'm going to generously call blind spots. I don't think he's stupid and I also don't think Alex is stupid. I don't mean craft to what he's doing. Obviously, I'm not trying to say that these are people who are like IQ deprived nonsense like that kind of thing.

I'm just saying that these are people who are willfully committed to not learning the answers to the questions that they are asking. It does appear that way. That's the only explanation for this. Except for Joe in this moment, because he wants to know about this fucking quote. Okay. I wonder if there's an actual statement where he said when Trump leaves, then we'll open back up.

That's what that's actually what Whitmer said specifically. But he said some more things. But well, it's fine. We're going for memory here. I mean, my God, I understand. So it's not new some now. It's Whitmer for sure. So we've pivoted over to that.

It's a little bit different. Making finding what this is all the more confusing. Twice as hard. Whatever Jamie's been doing, trying to Google things. Now he has to start over. Yep. So Alex gets a little bit combative about how interested Joe is in finding out what he's talking about.

Do we ever find a quote for Whitmer? I can't find anything. There's lots of quotes, but I can't find out. Do you want me to find it? Can you? Yes. Just put it on your phone. I will.

Tim and I will talk amongst ourselves. Okay, go ahead. And then we'll pull up whatever that is. Okay. Gretchen Whitmer, they almost kidnapped her, by the way. Here it is. I know I don't have it. I'm just saying.

Thanks, Tim. Whitmer, when Trump leaves office, quote. She was almost out. There was a kidnapping plot against her. No, it's Whitmer. Which 50% of the lockdowns won't end till Trump gone. That's just come on. Right.

Lockdowns won't end till Trump gone. Try that. Whatever. I know it's true. Lockdowns won't end till Trump gone. He'll find it. Whatever. I know.

You guys are a great team. Everyone here, everyone in that room working together, like a well-oiled machine right now. Trust me. Yeah. So since they're talking about Whitmer, and Tim has brought up that there was that kidnapping attempt plan.

That is a false flag, although Alex would agree that it is a good idea as well. They sort of get into that a little bit. And then Tim makes a joke. And then one of my favorite fucking moments in podcasts like this happens. It was a plot to like kidnap her. That was weird.

And I predicted up front that it was going to be FBI provocateurs. And it turned out the two leaders were FBI informants. What? What's even crazier is 52% of the citizens of Michigan agreed with the plot. That's a joke. That's a good one.

They're going to edit that part. We say that's a joke. Joe Rogan's guest calls for kidnapping. This is outrageous. Please. D-platform. That's same shit for the control. When I went on Alex's show, Alex goes,

Snopes always goes and finds that joke. He makes it, they go, correction, Hillary Clinton is not an oompa loompa. Did you guys see that Brett Weinstein's Unity 2020 account was also banned from Twitter? My producer just told me that. His Unity 2020 account, which was calling for a third party, was calling for unity between people on the right

and the left to get together and have conversations and perhaps even have an alternative candidate. That's outrageous. I love how obsessed these dudes are with how fun it will be when the snowflake lives, take something they say out of context. They are obsessed with it. I think they should be way more worried

about someone taking them in context and actually caring about what they say because the picture looks way worse than a couple of B-minus jokes. I'm going to go with yeah. As for Unity 2020, I don't know exactly why Twitter kicked the account off the platform, but if I were a betting man, I would say

it was probably because it's almost certainly a bad faith campaign to fuck with the election. In September, like two months before an election, that's when Brett fucking Weinstein is going to get a campaign rolling to field a candidate for president. Yeah, it's about time. That's fucking horseshit.

Yeah, we need a third party, and I think well after all the nominations are taken care of, long after everybody knows exactly who the candidates are, it's a good time for somebody to come in and shake things up, Dan. So Weinstein's ticket is Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Crenshaw. Okay, all right.

Now that actually, that'd be a fun administration. I would like, why don't we have that one-eyed vice presidents? We haven't had any before. That would also be a milestone. Yeah, so as far as I can tell, they have not agreed to run on this ticket. Oh no. And according to a video Weinstein posted on September 1st,

he hadn't even collected signatures to get on ballots. Basically, what Weinstein was pitching was for all the third parties to coalesce around his ticket, as if the Green Party and Libertarians, even if they wanted to, they could team up to be Biden or Trump. Easy, easy. If you actually watch Weinstein's video,

it's legitimately just him saying that he's not even gonna try to get battle on access for Unity 2020 as a party, because he knows that's laughable. Well, yeah. So instead, his strategy is to beg the Green or Libertarian parties who already have candidates to abandon their candidates,

and instead allow Brett Weinstein to choose their ticket, which would be Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Kredshaw. Now, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that might be an overreach. It's so dumb. Look, I like a big swing. That's a big swing. If I were Twitter, I would kick this off too.

But last because I was worried about it affecting the election, but because it's a very thinly veiled grip. Get the fuck out of here with this shit. It's way too desperate even for words. Yeah. For some context, the video of Weinstein's plan has been up for two months, and on YouTube has gotten 21,000 views.

That's not good. Not a lot of interest. I don't know. Did Tulsi Gabbard view it though? She might have. She's like, I didn't sign up for this shit. Dan Kredshaw is like, I'll steal the presidency from her. Yeah.

Like Weinstein had the ability to go on, like Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan's podcast and promote his unity 2020 concept, and his fucking video got 21,000 views. Not a lot of excitement surrounding this. What a bunch of dicks. Yeah. Anyway, Jamie has now found the quote.

After those dudes rift for a little while, and that gave Jamie time to do some typing. All right. Jamie found something. This is as close as I could get to what he's asking for. Okay. The Trump virus response is the worst in the globe, she said, if you're tired of lockdowns

or you're tired of wearing masks or you wish you were in church this morning or watching college football or your kids were getting in-person instruction, it's time for a change in this country. And that's why we've got to elect Joe Biden. I mean, that's pretty. That's right.

I mean, you could make that. You could make that. You could say whatever you want almost. Yeah. But that's the common sentiment, right? This is pretty much it. The problem is, the problem is, if you just take it from if you're tired of lockdowns,

and then you would get one interpretation of it, but if you back it up to the Trump virus response is the worst in the globe, she said, if you're tired of lockdowns. So what she's saying is- I think we're splitting airs. I mean, you're not necessarily. Because what she's saying is-

Okay, well, I saw a clip of her in a speech saying that. Because that's the problem, taking something out of context. What she's saying is- I mean, listen, we've got a wonderful person. Trump's done- No, I'm not saying that. What she's saying is that Trump has done such a shitty job.

That's the reason why we're locked down. You can't go to church. No, I get it. They'll get it. The headline was- I don't know if that's true, though. I think when you've got a contagious disease, you've got people flying in from Europe and China

and all these other countries- China. expressing, you're going to have spread. I mean, this is a insanely contagious disease. Listen, Joe, my favorite part of your show is, when you ask Jamie for something, and the light turns on when you're looking at it. Let me ask you this.

You're into numerology. How hammered are you right now? On scale one to ten. Not at all. We're into numerology. This is when it gets good. Great. So you can see here the decision tree of Alex's responses

to being confronted with something he can't really dispute. He's misrepresented reality, and reality is looking back at him, with the only possibility, seeming to be that he made up the Whitmer quote, or he didn't understand this one and repeated a misleading version for his own purposes. His first attempt to wiggle free

is to claim that they're splitting hairs, and this probably usually works. For whatever reason, Joe doesn't accept this and says it's not. So Alex has to try other things. Game two. Right. And game two is basically like, she's a wonderful person.

Like create false versions of what Joe is saying, so he has to defend himself from the fake version. Joe just ignores that, keeps moving forward, and then we get to transitioning to something completely unrelated, and possibly too interesting or confusing to resist following up on. In this case, numerology.

Yeah. I just wish these dudes like Tim and Joe could see in the moment how much of a one-trick pony Alex is, and just disabuse themselves with the idea that he's worth listening to. All he did, all he did was realize he can't play defense, so he went on offense,

realized he couldn't play offense, so he tried to change the field. He's a child saying, I'm gonna take my ball and go home every time. Yeah, you don't like the game that's being played, so you distract people with numerology. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And the numerology thing is just in being like,

you have me on episode 9-11, is there any meaning to the episode numbers? Jesus. It's obviously just like an attempt to go to another conversation, because the end of the road has been reached for Alex. She didn't say that, and you're full of shit. Yeah.

You can't defend this. Nope. Other than to be like, yes, I guess I took that out of context, and then now you have the responsibility to have that in your awareness, that you took this out of context. You can't use this argument anymore.

I assume he's done with it. I doubt we'll ever hear anything like that again. I think he's learned his lesson this time, right? Yeah, probably. So they get to talk and some more, and Alex brings up Operation Lockstep. Oh, great. And now here is where Joe does his other bit of good work,

and he's like, what are you talking about? The UN and the Davos Group all say, this is the post-industrial world, the great reset, I've got a copy of it right here, and they say, in these documents, we are going to reorganize society. COVID is good to shut down the carbon. Carbon is bad.

We're going to end success. We're going to end prosperity. We're going to track everybody. We're going to control their lives all under the name of COVID. They said all that? They said we're going to end success. We're going to end prosperity.

Oh, yeah. In the Lockstep Rockefeller Document 2010, they say we'll have a viral release or a simulated one that creates total fear. We'll bring in a police state, martial law. Is this available for someone to read? Absolutely. We've talked about this a ton.

I've read this document, and Alex is completely lying about it, but it's interesting that I got so excited when Joe pushed back on that because I'm like, this is the mother load. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you are successfully able to push back on Alex and demonstrate what he's doing here,

the game is over. It is. It really is. This fully and very explicitly exposes him. Yeah, once you're like, actually, there were four scenarios. Actually, this wasn't a plan. This was just a simulation to see what we can do.

How that's going on, this whole thing. You've completely misrepresented it as a plan. And then you say, and you fucking know it. Yeah, absolutely. Or did you not read this? Yeah, exactly. Have you been talking about this for months as a dystopian, terrifying plan,

and you've not even read this? What is it? Because it's one of the two. Either you didn't read it or you're lying to me. So you choose. Yeah, and get the fuck out of my studio. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, if you had any dignity,

if you had any feeling of responsibility for your audience, you have an obligation to do something like that. Yep. And I got really excited because Jamie is able to Google things. Yeah, and it's not hard to find. It's not. It's very easy to find.

Yeah. And so Jamie Googles this. And here's where it ends up happening. I was already looking this up, as you mentioned, because I was going down my own little rabbit hole. It says, when I first started to find it, my first search just says, there's a small, a large conspiracy has been built out

of this small grain of truth from this document, from 2010. OK. That's what it starts to say. So I haven't found it. Oh, that's Snopes, small grain of truth. Yeah. So Snopes is like, God, it's like.

I don't think, is it Snopes that you Google it? Let's focus on the grain of truth. No, no, no. Who says it's a grain of truth? The grain of truth, the kernel of truth, is that this document does exist. Let's focus on all the treasure trope of lies. Yeah.

So let's focus on the grain of truth. That's very small. Let's see what the big thing first. All the lies around it. Mm-hmm. So they find a document. The Rockefeller Foundation annual report, 2010. I'll control F. What would you like me to look up?

Look up police state. Look up. Yeah, just look up police state. Don't forget the exact words. I mean, let's just go read it for yourself, man. Control F police state. Nothing came up. This is just one paper?

That's it? I mean, that's the whole PDF is here. It's like, it's really, really long. So when you control F police state, nothing? OK. What else? I mean, I've read it before it says that. So anybody can go read it right now.

So you think they edited it? No. No, I mean, I can't remember the exact words. OK, well, let's look up pandemic. Look up pandemic. Alex has to feel his world and walls closing in on him at this point because, like, oh, they're not going to find the things that I've said are here.

It's just not there. They're not in there. There's a problem with the things that I said. Yeah. So Joe has Jamie search for the word pandemic, and he begins to read. All right. With no network to transfer critical infectious disease

information without open lines of communications, thousands more fall sick. The new, in quotes, disease becomes an unchecked pandemic. By the time the right expertise is brought to bear on the problem, it's too late, the disease has spread around the globe. In a world of global trade and travel, what's traded faster and travels furthest

are the microbes in every handshake. Southeast Asia. So what are they? What is this in reference to? OK, it says a few miles east. Young boy has been hit. No, hold on. Don't please go back to that.

Yeah, just it's just it's just a scenario that they're painting. Oh, here's the exact moment that Joe needs someone like me around, although I would never accept that position, even if it were off course. The first problem is that Joe has the wrong document. This is the Rockefeller annual report from 2010, which Jamie has found a link to. Whereas the one Alex lies about and turned into the fictitious

operation lockstep is called scenarios for the future of technology and international development. They're both Rockefeller Foundation documents from 2010. So it's an easy mistake to make. Yeah, sure. But the idea that there is such a thing as operation lockstep, that just is something Alex took from a meme. I applaud Joe for trying to find the document.

And I further applaud him for being able to discern that the text that he was reading was a scenario that was being described as opposed to the text being a nefarious plan. But he doesn't have the full picture. If he knew what he was talking about and knew what the conversation was, he would know that this wasn't the right document and he would know that the correct document is a breakdown of four imaginary scenarios of ways in which

technology and political situations could advance in the developing world. The four scenarios depict worlds where things develop differently on two axes. The first political and economic alignment can either be strong or weak. The other adaptive capacity can either be low or high. The scenario Alex is pretending is the Rockefeller's plan

for the world is just the way that the authors of this exercise chose to characterize an imagined future with strong political and economic alignment and low adaptive capacity. And I know that we've talked about this a bunch, but I figure there may be a chance that people haven't heard that because they're drawn in by a Rogan episode. And this is an important point of Alex's complete fraud that he's pulling.

They were using game theory to figure out what might happen. The end. Well, economic and political alignment has to do with the ways in which the state does control of the industry and adaptive capacity in terms of technological advancement has another axis that's important. And so those are the two axes that the team of experts who prepared this report thought were the most important in

terms of deciding what sort of challenges should be prepared for. There are a ton of other axes that they could have done a report on and it would have been different than this. Totally. But what they're doing, I mean, what they're essentially doing is applying a quick game theory to this. So you've got four boxes.

Top left is one one. Top right is one zero. Bottom left is zero one. Bottom right is zero zero. Like that's that's what they're trying to do and extrapolate from there. Yeah, that's the whole idea and come up with real realistic depictions of what that world could look like.

Exactly. And in those depictions, they have one in the lockstep one. There is a virus that is involved in the background of what the the scenario describes. And Alex has taken that to pretend that there is such a thing as Operation Lockstep that is from this 2010 Rockefeller document. And it's just a complete lie because Joe doesn't know what

Alex is talking about. He's tried to find the thing he needs to judge Alex's claim, but he doesn't know it's not the right thing. So they're never going to get to any truth. Alex is wasted and he doesn't know which report is which to begin with. So he's dough help. Yeah, that's kind of what makes this show pointless.

Unless there is an expected stake that if Alex cannot defend his claims, they're assumed to be wrong and he's full of shit. He's going to win every time. Because what do you do here? What do you do? He's like, oh, no, it's in there. Yeah.

Where do you go from there? All right, let's read this whole document. Or worse still, you got the wrong one. You criticize him for it the next day. He's like, see, they weren't even reading the right document. Yeah. The end.

Now, granted, you never want to explain why you didn't realize that. Yeah, of course. Anyway, Joe continues to read this document. Though it is the wrong one. Sure. By continuing our drive to invest in systems that coordinate efforts and share information, the Rockefeller

Foundation is working to ensure that we have the ability to meet the health challenges of an interconnected world. Isn't the perfect analogy terrorism? Because it's like terrorism exists. People want to prevent terrorism. But it's like, how many rights do you give up in order to do that?

And then. So neither Joe nor Alex realized this isn't the document that Alex's entire conspiracy is based on. Because surprise, neither of them have actually read it now. Tim surprisingly has read it. No, he's not interested. He's not sharing his expertise.

This is where he stays silent. Right. I want to address Tim's comment there at the end because I think it's great stuff. I do think that there's a productive conversation that could be had about the push and pull of personal freedoms and the responsibilities we have to each other because we live in a world that has

a population over one. You know, there are points that people who prioritize individual freedoms could make that could be compelling. And the same is true of people who believe a more important element is the communities around us. That's great. That's a conversation I encourage people to have

because outside of the people on the fringes of either side, there's a lot of people with valuable things to say within that spectrum. However, one of those people is not Alex Jones. He has a liar and an idiot. I wouldn't want to have that conversation with anyone in that room, except for maybe Jamie. And that's only because I don't know anything

about him, except that he's got COVID or that he's got a computer. So at least he could look up the things that you're saying. Yeah, I could have that conversation with him, maybe, but only because he hasn't disqualified. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so, but there are moments like that where Tim's saying something. I'm like, yeah, fair enough, but why are you bringing that to this room? You go sit around with a joint and your friends and talk about this. It's going to be better for you. Yeah.

Instead, you're ruining other people's lives way to go. Good. So Alex, man, he could fucking prove lock stuff, though. He can do it. I've got the operation lockstep documents where they say we're going to bring in this global authoritarian police day.

Okay, but you have to, then you have to show us those. Well, I mean, I'm sitting here in studio talking to you about this. But I understand. I understand what you're saying, but we wanted to try to read it. But you know everybody else watching this is going to go looking up.

Well, I hope they do. They're going to go crazy. I hope we wish we could have found it right then, if it's real. No, no, no, I know you want to show it. But it might be an interpretation of what they're saying. So close.

Like the Whitmer quote. No, it says specifically. The Whitmer quote is just a criticism of Trump. She's blaming all this lockdown. No, Whitmer was found by the by the Supreme Court of Michigan and by a federal court to have seized all three branches of governments and basically set up martial law.

They even use those terms. Here's what I can't understand. How can Joe Rogan so clearly understand that in the case of the Whitmer quote, and most likely in the case of this lockstep thing they can't find, that Alex has taken something completely out of context and interpreted it poorly yet he can't grasp but that's all Alex does.

How can he be that close and not see Alex's act? I'm just so surprised right now that I've caught you in this lie because I've never tried to catch you before. You've been so straight up when I've been drunk with you. You've always been telling me the truth and now I'm finally pushing back and it seems like you're

lying to me. This is so strange. Yeah, it's so weird because here again Alex is cornered with Joe pointing out essentially his entire career sleight of hand and to wiggle out Alex starts ranting about something unrelated. They were talking about Alex's interpretation of the Whitmer quote and he went off about the Michigan

Supreme Court. This is to try to move the conversation into territory he can handle because he's being confronted about his willful misrepresentation or lies about news items. That's not something he can deal with. Also the Michigan Supreme Court just ruled that the executive orders that Whitmer signed and tried

to extend could not be extended. The court decided that the governor and legislature would need to work together to come up with the appropriate measures to deal with COVID-19. Which I think is a little bit shy of she's grasped all the power. She's taking control of Michigan herself. Yeah, yeah a little bit different.

So Tim again steps in in his role and that is to try and be like hey he's close though. He's close. You're saying that quote I want to when you say if you are sick of lockdowns and you're sick of not being able to go to church Joe Biden should be elected. Agreed.

That is not a huge jump from what he said. No it's not a huge jump. But the problem is the way it's being said she was talking about how bad Trump handled the rate of infection first. Of course. All right let's expand on that. I remember interviewing Lou Dobbs like 15 years ago.

Okay fine. Here's my response to that. Yeah and I think that in a different setting you can see the conversation that's trying to be had. And that is okay let's look at this quote and see the way that Alex's interpretation you can understand why he's saying that. Sure.

But that's not necessarily a fair interpretation of what her intention was or what she meant. You can see the path that this could go down if it wasn't a bunch of dum-dums who are fucked up and yelling. And Alex didn't have a vested interest in derailing the conversation. A little bit.

Rambling about Lou Dobbs. A little bit right there. Yeah so it's just sad. It's pointless. This is an exercise in futility and I think if Joe is just trying to do like some kind of a meta art project where he shows that like talking to these people is not worth it then he's succeeded.

But yeah short of that this is a failure. Anyway we get back to lockstep and guess what. Jamie found the right document. Ooh. They talk about a lockstep bringing in a global authoritarian system. They talk about riots. They talk about war.

If you could find that article. There are. That's it. Jamie. I found something. I found something but I don't I'm trying to understand what it's saying because it's now it's like it's speaking about years in the future as

though they've already happened. Well we're not too far away from. Let's see it because like they're painting another scenario just like they painted with that infection scenario. Archive.org I found. Okay. I went to the second page of this link but this is

like scenario narratives. It says lockstep. So they found the right document and now Alex has got to be like oh god. Oh fuck. Well because he kind of wiggled out of the last one that was a trap. Yeah he almost got trapped.

And he got he got out. And then now like the Duke boys now he got cocky because he probably assumed like well James I'm going to find anything else. Yeah I assume he's not going to look for anything else. He's already found. I assume there's only one Rockefeller report.

And so he brings back up lockstep as a piece of evidence thinking it's in the clear. James like I actually found this thing. And so they they start trying to read it and I wish they understood what they were reading quite frankly because it could have an actual conversation. Yeah.

But they do not. Okay by 2025 people seem to be growing weary of so much top-down control and letting leaders and authorities make choices for them. Whatever where ever national interest clashed with individual interest there was conflict. Sporadic pushback becomes increasingly organized and coordinated as disaffected youth and people

who have seen their status and opportunities slip away largely in developing countries and cited civil unrest by 2026 protesters in Nigeria brought down the government fed up with the entrenched cronyism and corruption. Even those who'd like the greater stability and predictability of this world began to grow uncomfortable and constrained by so many tight

rules and by the strictness of national boundaries the feeling lingered that sooner or later something would have inevitably upset the neat order that the world's governments had worked so hard to establish. Okay I never read that but that's the other stuff it's there we go these thousands of pages man. So to be clear the Rockefeller report scenarios

for the future of technology and international development is not thousands of pages. How many pages is it 54. The section about lockstep that scenario is actually only eight pages. Alex has no idea what his grand lockstep conspiracy is based on and here he is being shown exactly what it's based on.

He claims he's never read the thing and the document's super long so how can he possibly know all of it. This is shameful shit and honestly if Joe or Jamie understood the document they were reading or Alex's narratives around it they would have all the tools they would need to fully expose Alex's charade for

millions to see on their show. This would be a bubble puncturing moment like if they knew what they had in their hands. Man it's insane. That is that is a real bummer. So Alex knows kind of I mean he has to know that like fuck I'm in trouble. So he just ends up playing dumb.

It's in there I'm telling you thousands of pages man. Okay. It talks about global police state and worldwide riots and I mean we're not that far away. There's weird people are saying. They're writing that. Yeah they're writing it almost like I said. I've never seen that part.

It's like I'm just saying it says stuff like that. I've never seen that part. It says stuff like that. Yeah and you know what I honestly get the vibe of like I can't I obviously can't prove this. Sure sure sure. I don't know but it has the feeling of like I think Tim recognizes that Alex is caught too.

Yeah. And he's trying to save him. Yeah it does feel like that. It does feel like Tim is making every possible excuse like no what he's actually no Joe I understand where you're coming from and I think that's a really good point that you held his feet to the fire.

But what if instead of him saying the thing that he said he said this thing would you more likely agree with. Yeah now all appearances seeming to indicate that this source that Alex is basing a conspiracy on is nothing like what he has described it as. It was actually sure something else completely different but isn't it close.

What if I moved these goalposts over here to a completely different spot in a different universe. Then you then he would have made it. Then you got three points touchdown. Yeah. It's very very Christ. So Alex sees up on the screen because they in the studio they have the screen where Jamie projects

the the computer screen. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's Alex is looking at that and he thinks that he's found the right word. Oh no. In this lockstep Alex that he actually has already said I haven't seen this I don't know this part

but now he sees the right word. Jesus. There it is. And authoritarian capitalism. I mean I remember I don't have it in front of me but I was reading the lockstep Rockefeller documents and they predicted worldwide police state authoritarianism civil war.

I mean you do have them in front of you in 2018. They're on screen. Well Africa embrace it. Well Africa's embrace of authoritarian capitalism a lot China continue and then Vietnam to require a solar panel at every home in 2022 and then in 2025. That's not the same documents I saw but that's the question is.

It's weird the way they're writing this. They're writing this is that they're predicting. Already happened. Yeah well they're they're talking about it like they're they're seeing the future and like almost like it's fiction. But they're talking about it like it's here's Trump saying we're not going to control the

pandemic. You don't. You get used to it. You get over it. You fight it with nutraceuticals. You fight it with you know with with therapeutics. It's the idea that when Bill Gates came out two weeks coming he goes we'll be shut down for 10 years.

Is that what he said? He said yeah. No change the subject hit another talking point. Is that what he said? Yeah and now now we have successfully moved on and we can ignore the fact that your complete lock step bullshit fell apart upon analysis and it's just it's just jumped the general lee over it again.

Yeah I don't understand how you could be Joe Rogan be sober go through that and then move along to something else and not be like that was you just got destroyed. Yep. Your boat is sinking man. You just you have this giant conspiracy about the globalists and call operation lock step that's been

in plans for 10 years and we pull up the document that you're like oh there's the word. Oh I read there's thousands of pages long. I don't know. So it's so you're exposed Alex. Alex has officially made it so that he only gets two small air holes in his box. Oh no.

If he continues Dan how many more clips do we have? He's going to wind up with no air holes. I hope not. I'm telling you right now if he keeps going like this there's going to be zero air holes. I would like to salvage at least one. Okay. So good luck.

We transition from that to just being like. Hey man I'm not I'm not perfect. What could be done? What can be done? Man all I know is I try to tell the truth I make mistakes but I'm sitting here with these notes I've written where I read what globalists say. I gave me that Wall Street Journal article where they go

we're in we're impure that we can get sick. It's time to get rid of all humans and merge with machines. It's so beautiful. I think well that's just one cook and then it's almost all these people. That's not what the Wall Street Journal article is about. You're just going based on the old headline. I would like to read a quote from that and see if it says

what Alex says. Hey why don't you give that the lock step treatment. See how that quote goes. So at this point the show descends into a completely boring stretch where Joe tells Alex about his feelings about UFOs and Alex does his best not to interrupt and drinks a bunch. It's fine but I'm not particularly interested in Joe talking about aliens to Alex who's barely paying attention.

And Tim who honestly might as well not be there. And then Alex says this. We're a little bit beyond just apes. Clearly we're from outside the planet and there's something bigger going on like this this life forms happened before. This is a major test and so we can sit there and just say oh we're just apes. No I don't mean that.

What I mean by we're just apes is that in comparison to what we could be eventually through revolution. You're saying we're in a metamorphosis. We're on a look we're a lot smarter than apes right than regular apes that are in most of us in the zoo. Oh boy this is this is where it's like all right. Nothing good is coming from this. Okay so his Bible includes humans not being from earth.

Well there's prequels that we just haven't found. No that could be. I don't know. That's fair. So Joe is trying to explain to Alex that you know his his view of things involves humans just being monkeys that have evolved and through our ability to manipulate technology. Sure.

There's possibilities that we could find ways that we could elevate ourselves even higher. Sure. And as he says free ourselves from our monkey bodies. Alex should throw something at you. Yeah Alex is. You're sitting there saying this will free us from our problems but it's still humans that program the nexus points of it so it

could actually amplify the problems. I was saying we should be wary of all of it. Oh it certainly could. Look it could go sideways. It could all go bad but it also could go to a point where people don't feel the need to do that anymore. And that we recognize that a lot of what we have is we are escaping the shackles of our monkey bodies or our monkey bodies.

Alex would throw a chair at him. You should call him a demon. Yep. You're trying to merge with me. Exactly what globalists want to say. That's exactly what globalists say. I talk about this all the time. That's a slippery slope trying to get rid of your monkey body.

That's that he should start going on. That's devil level shit. Yeah. You're in league with the literal Christian devil. Yes. Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Fuck off. This is just like this section of the show is really kind of what I would describe as Joe trying to have a trite conversation with a uncooperative barely paying attention scene partner and it's not interesting at all. I don't get why you would think that like they still persist in this idea of Alex being a manly man of having some kind of chauvinist like elevated toxic masculinity

but that mascot is a good thing you know. Oh. But at the same time he's waffled on everything. He's hidden from everything. He interrupts you with divergences. Yeah. Like this is a man who is completely incapable. Yeah.

Of acting like anything that you would consider a stereotypical male trait. If you will. Well and he lacks the assertiveness or certainty. Totally. Of conviction. And he's licking Joe's boot. That'll get worse as this goes along. Of course it will.

So in this section where it's just kind of like a dumb conversation. Joe does ask Alex what he thinks aliens are. Okay. What do you think aliens are? Murder hornets. There are all sorts of interdimensional forces in the universe and multi-dimension so there's like bad aliens that are trying to manipulate our development. Gretchen Whitmer.

Because a high level exactly a high level would not try to manipulate our development. Right. Okay so. So Joe is like imprinting on these demons because he loves them. He's a bad person. I'm Joe. No no seriously. So all I'm saying is is we need to build towards the next level and do amazing things.

What do you think of the what do you think of the. And I did invite myself onto the election show. Please. It's going to be great. I got on my news in front of Joe. I'll do it again right now. But what do you think of my news right now. Stop making it about you.

No it is about me. I'm in front of Gretchen. You're drunk. I want to come on. Yes. Ban you from alcohol. What do you. I want it.

You're going to smoke weed with me. What do you think about. We're going to have a party. We'll definitely do that on November 3rd. 03:19:01,380 --> 03:19:02,020 Two minutes. What do you think. The best way to do it.

The question was what do you think aliens are. One air hole. Well Jordan you might want to give him back another air hole. Give him back it. Is he going to earn an air hole back. Well it may be because unlike Ponce de Leon who claimed to have found the fountain of youth. Alex actually does have the secret to immortality. Okay of course he does.

God doesn't know where God came from. Whoa. And we said that last time. Don't say whoa. And we don't know where we came from. Right. Don't say whoa. We have the archetypal memories that go so far.

And then our big fear is have an evolutionary death of the species. It's like a line of you know flowers or plants or you know whatever we are. And it's a whole genetic experience. We're conscious individuals but then we have a genetic experience that goes on forever. As long as the line of the genetic experience doesn't die. So we're always looking for eternal life. As long as we keep having kids they have kids we live forever. That's us.

We just get better. Okay. So if you have kids you're immortal. Yep. Yep. That sounds that sounds right. Great. That's great.

Good work dude. So I think whoa sensibly. Joe hears that and he's like all right we're done. All right but before this goes any further off the rails I think we're good. We've done it. Oh you want to end this transmission? Do you? I never got to all my notes.

You got more shit? What else would you like to talk about? Joe let him know. Alex really wants to break records. He wants to break Elon Musk's traffic record. He wants to break his own length record. Joe say goodbye. Let's do another hour.

Say goodnight. Say goodnight. Let's do another hour. 03:20:42,660 --> 03:20:43,780 Let's do another hour. Let's say goodnight. This is an epic podcast we've only got to go another hour. It is.

Oh god that will be dead. I'm going to go another hour. This is going to be bigger than the Elon Musk. That's the oh I'm a second. I'm a second. It doesn't have to be man. I'm the second biggest podcast. Every listener has to spread this like right now or I'm going to die.

Well YouTube. Yikes. Oh if only that were true. So Alex is talking to Joe about like whatever and he's like oh this studio is temporary you need a new studio. So this is a very rare studio. You're you're getting a new one ready I know. Yeah we're we're having problems finding a good location but yeah we'll have to.

How about my house? I got a huge area. We're going to find a good spot. It's amazing. We're looking right now. We're in the process. All right let's get serious. Okay.

Oh I covered a lot of this. Alex we're good man. We're good. No we have to do another two hours. But we're going to see you again in a week. Oh so I am on the nightly this. Relax. Yeah.

I have to beg. How about I just beg a little bit. You don't act. Come on man. I'm not billowing. Is there anything else you really want to discuss. No I mean I'm glad that Jamie. Take no for an answer.

Take no for an answer. I'm really good at it. He's better than I am which is almost no one knows. I'm really good at searching for things. Jamie's better. Oh god. So then Alex does his normal thing of like I'm going to tell you the big secret. Yeah.

This is the most important. This is the most important thing. Lean in real close. You don't want to hear this big secret. And so then he goes anti-vax on him. Oh. And so they admit on the news that 100% of people that take these are getting sick. 20% are going to the hospital.

And so they also have vaccines that are called behavior modification vaccines. You can type it in. Okay but let me pause right there. mRNA vaccines. You said 100% of them get sick and 20% of them go to the hospital. They had two studies. In one study 100% got sick. 20% with the hospital.

Another study 80% got sick. And of those 20% with the hospital. That's CBS News. Jamie's going to find that right now. You can type in Bill Gates grilled over vaccine dangers. You'll have CBS News reporting. But the point is they admit a bunch of vaccine deaths have happened now from the test. So they keep moving forward.

We don't get, we want a citation on this. But we don't have time. We just said goodbye to our last air hole. It just went out the window. Just off into the distance. It's gone. I don't know how a hole disappears through a window. It's amazing.

Mysterious. So they're talking about vaccines and dangers. And Alex brings up that like there's polio that's caused by polio vaccines. And then Joe Googles that or Jamie does. And they're shocked to find out that. Oh God no. UN says new polio outbreak in Sudan was caused by oral vaccine. Yeah.

Whoa. It's not good. Whoa. New polio outbreak in Sudan is caused by oral vaccine. And this, look at that kid's face. Oh my God. Is that a terrifying image? The image of them distributing that.

Look at that poor kid's face. Imagine that kid getting polio from that vaccine. They're just, he looks so terrified. Oh my God. Yeah, I mean that's tragic. This is Joe reading a headline that seems to validate Alex's anti-vaccinative, but only does so if you don't understand the context of what's being discussed. We've talked about this in depth in the past,

but when they say there are vaccine derived cases of polio, they aren't saying that someone got the polio vaccine and it gave them polio. That's how it sounds, but the term means something else. This generally refers to a phenomenon that occurs in under vaccinated communities. If you get this vaccine that's derived from a live virus, you may have a small chance of spreading that virus, even though it's weakened and it won't get people sick or is badly sick. If everyone around you is vaccinated, it's no big deal,

since they'll all be protected from the virus and it'll just fizzle out. The problem comes in when there's a high percentage of unvaccinated in the community, because these people can just pass the virus back and forth among each other, and the longer the virus has to replicate, the higher the chance it could mutate into a version of the illness that can really hurt people and get them sick. The conversation about vaccine-derived illness is actually one that supports the community immunization, but the words are easy to confuse

if you just read something out of context like a headline. For someone like Joe, who's been hitting the whole, maybe this is out of context drama this whole episode, you'd think maybe he'd ask himself what this headline he's reading means. Joe, you coulda ended the show. Should have. Should have ended the fucking show. So now Alex has seemingly won Joe over with the dangers of vaccines.

Oh, look at how awful that kid looks. That's such an emotional image. Joe, if it's an emotional image, maybe. So here's where it gets really sad. Maybe use your intellect. Now, I think Alex feels like he has a win. Of course. And the bad taste of that lockstep embarrassment is out of his mouth, and so now... Now we gotta swing for the fences.

I wish, the last thing I want to say is this. I'd like to retire the next year. I'd like to finish up my work, clean up mistakes I made, talk about other stuff. It's going to take you more than a year to clean up the mistakes you've made. If you're sincere about that, you got another 26 years ahead of you. Yeah, no shit. At least. So Alex is like, I just work so much.

I just work so much. On what? Because I'm going to die of a heart attack going crazy. I'll do this 18 hours a day. I'd like to get you in shape. I'm totally stressed out, Joe. I'm dying. I know you are.

I'm dying. I literally do this stuff constantly. I read thousands of articles a day. I know you do. If I text you at three o'clock in the morning, you respond right back. You're wide awake. I'm not a victim. I'm just telling you, I'm dying.

I understand. So I can't do this much longer, and I want everybody to know. I love my crew, but I told them I can't keep running this operation. I just want to tell the truth, and I want to get out in the next year. Doesn't mean I won't go on your show once a year and do like a ride a book or something. I want you to get healthy. I need to get healthy. I try to get healthy.

Why don't you hire a trainer and hire a dietitian? Why don't you go to a psychiatrist? This all makes me really sad. Like the ending the show, Alex's drank half a bottle of whiskey. Oh, man. He tried to end it. It didn't work. And now we're talking about Alex needing to get in shape because he's going to die

living the way he does on his show. Jesus. It's just like this isn't comfortable. Shoulda ended the show. Yeah. And then we get this. Joe has a revelation that Alex does not want to talk about, but it actually makes things make a bit more sense.

But you were talking to me about Adderall too. You're the problem. You know the problem? I want you to talk about that because that's a good thing for people to hear. That the problems that you had with Adderall, because that shit scares the fuck out of me. Well, I'm not going to get into any of that type of stuff. The point is, is that the things that doctors push and things that go on,

the whole country is drugged up on a bunch of stuff. That makes a lot of sense. If you look at a lot of the behaviors that Alex manifests, the idea that he's abusing Adderall or some kind of other stimulant, I mean, it just, it checks off a lot of boxes. I would never like speculate about that. And I think it's kind of, you know, it's a little bit weird for us. Even it might be a little bit across the line,

but I mean, it's something Joe brought up. And I honestly do agree with Joe that it is something that would be good to talk about. Because there are a lot of people who have had trouble. And yeah, I think that stimulant abuse might be very, it would make a lot of sense for how drastically his shows changed over the couple of years. Like it's not, I mean, there's the influences that are sort of intellectual, that are like these insidious influences of Steve Pachanik, Roger Stone and a bunch of these weirdos and recognizing that Trump is an opportunity

also probably not thinking that Trump was going to win and thinking you could Ron Paul him. Right, right, right, right. But a lot of the behavioral stuff really does sort of fit what you might expect with Adderall abuse. And I mean, Joe was talking about it, that is a past thing. I should hope that, I hope that is the case. Yeah, that would be nice. It's just a bummer. Anyway, Alex only drinks because he has to work so hard.

Sure. But I'm not, I do caffeine and alcohol, that's it. And it's all very, very destructive. And, you know, it gets to the point where like you're exhausted unless you drink. And it's not a good thing. That's why I'm glad you sober in October. Last October, I was sober. Yeah.

Do you think you could just kick it totally? I mean, you kicked it for four months. Do you think it would be? If I wasn't doing a show every day and having to read, I mean, I'm not exaggerating. I read 50 articles, I'd probably scan a 500. I mean, I look at so much stuff that it's enslaving me. Like I just want to, I don't want to be around it anymore. It's not like I'm scared of it.

I'm just, I want to be something else. It's negative, it has negative consequences on your health. Yeah. So, so for me, I just want to get away from all of it. And what do you want to do? I'd love to go hunting fishing and relaxing and oil painting and doing sculpture. I love metal sculptures. I love that.

That's a beautiful chimpanzee sculpture right there. What the fuck is happening? This is just a, this is. You do not get to do that. No. Alex, you spent the last 30 years destroying the fucking world. You don't get to just require to retire to a fucking life of hunting and fishing and oil painting. Go fuck yourself.

Go fuck yourself. Hitler does not get to become a painter afterwards. Hitler does not. I mean, George W. Bush should be in the fucking hay. I don't understand why he's allowed to paint. Right. Fuck me. Yeah.

It's, I just want to, I just want to make sculptures of monkey skulls and metal and. Yeah. I like metal sculpture. Go fuck yourself. So I think that over the course of this episode, you saw some really interesting attempts on Joe's part to call for citations. Sure. The things that Alex is saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are all fizzled out entirely. Yeah. Alex drank half a bottle of whiskey. And I mean, to his credit, he should be way drunker than this. Drank a lot. Half a bottle is a chunk. I usually don't.

I think he could. I usually don't walk after half a bottle. I think he comported himself quite well considering. Fairly well. Fairly well. Yeah. Yeah. I will give him that.

He's a drinker. I think he could be. He's a drinker. Way worse. Given given the circumstances. Oh yeah. But then I really think the you can't use Bill Maher as an example. I was the lockstep thing are complete puncturing of the illusion that Alex

knows what he's talking about or that he does anything. Then at the end here, he's getting really sad saying he wants to quit. Joe's talking about like him being secretly taking Adderall. And also I drink because I work too hard. I want to quit and like maybe hunt and fish. Go fuck yourself. It's very not great as a whole. I think Alex comes off very poorly.

Yeah. Joe disagrees. But I appreciate you being here. It was everything I hoped it would be. Good. This was a great one, Alex. This is really good. I think people got to see a side of you

that they maybe even didn't see in the other two podcasts. You know, I think you did a great account of yourself and I think. Really? You think so? Yeah. Oof. I do not agree. That could you save that quote forever?

What? This is everything I hoped it would be. I would like that one to stay right there forever. I would like Joe Rogan to have to live with. My Alex Jones podcast was everything I hoped it would be. If it was everything you hoped it would be, then you have an interesting set of hopes. Yeah. This show was not good.

I really hoped that I would come off okay. Yeah. And that he would be allowed to spread his bullshit to millions of people. I hoped that I would come off as performatively curious. Yep. And at the same time, also sandbagging of Alex. Totally. I want to come off as like a pig who likes to roll around in the mud,

but doesn't actually want to. Yeah. The top half of the pig doesn't get dirty. All these other pigs, they just roll around in it. My legs sure are covered in mud, but I would never allow my face to get in there. If in his subsequent episodes, he came out and said, this was everything I wanted it to be because I believe that it fully encapsulates.

If you have an understanding of what Alex believes, what he puts into the world, how he communicates, this episode is all you need to decode that he doesn't know shit. 100%. He doesn't know anything about these topics that he's talking about. And all of the sources that he tries to rely on are misinterpretations or completely made up. He also is too much of a coward to ever admit any of this stuff.

Yep. So when confronted by a friend, he will lie to his friend's face in order to wiggle out of trouble. I think that if he said that and then said, fuck this dude, I don't associate him anymore, then congratulations. You have pulled off something fantastic. But if you continue to associate with him and there's no consequences for the clear demonstrations of bullshit

that Alex did here, then you're an active participant in it. You got it. And that's that. Go fuck yourself. So we sign off with this clip. We did it. We did it. We did it.

All right, we did three and a half hours. Something like that. Yes. And four. To infinity and beyond. Bandod video. Don't visit it. Bandod video.

Bye, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, friends, for tuning into the show. And thank you to Tushy. Thank you to Tushy. Hey, Tushy. I hope this was everything you hoped it would be. Yeah.

Guys, congratulations on sponsoring this nonsense. Thanks, Tushy. Yeah. Making this possible. Yeah. I think it's really interesting that in the aftermath of this episode coming out, there was some backlash. And understandably, I mean, there's a lot of dumb shit.

There's stuff that's just like, you know, harmlessly dumb shit. Like William Colby was murdered. Or Robert Maxwell was murdered. Sure. Like those are just like, ah, true crime. Hey, let's have fun. But there's damaging stuff. The anti-vax narratives that Joe Rogan does not do a responsible job of pushing back against.

Climate change. Sure. That's huge. Huge. And a lot of the ways that Joe could be useful in helping push back against the satanic panic that is absorbing people right now, I think that there is actually very good cause for people to be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah.

And the backlash could, I don't know. I've seen headlines going around that people are wanting to cancel their Spotify accounts. Sure. And then the episode disappeared from Spotify. And then now today, but just before we were recording, see, I see another headline that, oh, it was a tech glitch. And apparently the episode is back up now on Spotify. So I don't know what's going on with this.

Tucker Carlson lost those pages. They were in the mail, Dan, and he just lost them. Where did they go? Anyway, sure, it was proof of everything, but you can just trust me. I'm not following that story. I don't know what's going on with that. I don't, we'll get to that later. Who cares?

I don't know what's going on with the status of this episode, but I don't know. I'd be really, really hilarious. It'd be funny. It'd be funny for Spotify to take it down. Yeah. Like, it'd be funny for Spotify to take him down. Well, 100 millions, mine now. Give us a hundred million dollars.

They need to find a way. Oh, us? Yeah. We'll be number one. If we had a hundred million dollars, I guarantee we'd be number one. I'd be putting billboards up. I'd be fucking going apeshit with this. I don't, I don't know.

What a terrible idea would be to give me a hundred million dollars. I don't know what we would do. There would be any different than what we would do as not rich people. I guess we smoke money instead. Maybe. I don't know. I think I think that I would, I would ask if Joe, we're listening, which he's not. No.

I would ask that he engage in some reflection about some of the points that we've brought up about the tactics that he used to try to get to the bottom of some of Alex's stuff. They make sense. Those are the things that you would do. Sure. You were trying to figure out what someone's source on a certain thing was. Right.

With Alex, there isn't anything there. No. And that's why you constantly end up with him trying to change the subject, jangling keys in front of people, obfuscating, creating false positions for you to have to own up to. Yep. That's why he does those things because he can't stand the possibility of you realizing that ultimately there isn't a source.

Yep. There isn't anything behind anything that he's saying and reflect on that and reflect on how you did the best you could. Maybe, maybe, and it still won't work. Yeah. So don't do this again. Don't do it.

03:38:21,700 --> 03:38:26,100 And if you do, just do a spectacle. Yeah. Just have any bravo in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like just do it and be like, oh, we're all going to get fucked up and say really dumb things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's a pre-announce.

Don't believe or care about anything you say. This is bananas fun. Yeah, yeah. Don't don't take any of this shit seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't don't try and elevate any of this stuff because you end up with embarrassment. Oh, now we're going to have an intellectual conversation on shit he made up between Joe Rogan, Tim Dillon, and Alex Jones.

Yeah. Great. I'm most likely to believe Tim Dillon. And again, it's because I know the least about him. Anyway, yeah, we're done. And now to infinity and beyond. I'm going to retire to my chambers. Sleep for a week.

Can hunt and fish. This was a pain in the ass. Yeah. Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed. We will be back on Monday. But until then, Jordan, we have a website. We do have a website. It's KnowledgeFight.com.

Yes, we're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's that KnowledgeFight. And I go to bed. Jordan. We're on Facebook. We are Facebook. I'm tuned.

And if you could, please find a local charity or bail fund in your area to help out people doing God's work. Indeed. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Nio. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I'm Daryl Rundis.

I wrote Operation Lockstep. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Well, Alex, I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.