Knowledge Fight - #574: May 28-29, 2003

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Today, Dan and Jordan check in on the past.  In this installment, Alex reveals that some of his more sensible-sounding positions are actually dumb, interviews a guy his audience clearly hates, and gets a call from a guy who recently lost a tiger. Citations

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge everybody welcome back knowledge right I'm Dan I'm sure a couple dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones oh indeed we are Dan Dan Jordan quick question what's up what's your bright spot my bright spot today Jordan is a callback to a bright spot of days past okay I was going to do laundry I went down to the laundry room and what should fly past me but a thing I thought it was a bat right it was pretty early in the morning I was like maybe there's bats laundry rooms have bats that's science it's in a basement you got to go down to set a stairs just fact and I thought like oh bat yeah I looked and

there were birds nesting on underneath the staircase and it was you know I remember seeing that like a year ago yeah it was really delightful and I don't know it it brought to mind feelings about the you know the pandemic waning I guess a little bit or turning to a little bit more of normalcy and the birds are in on it too yeah that's that is nice that's a is that was it the same birds no I didn't know it was in a different spot under the stairs and it was clearly different birds sure sure I got to know these birds pretty well okay these were different I was going to say it would be nice if you had like a whole intergenerational thing starting and you in the laundry room I don't think generations of birds last a year I don't I don't

I don't know how long birds live I think it's longer than a year it could be yeah so what's your bright spot my bright spot Dan is a dj danarchy has made me and us and all of us something very cool if you could please god damn wizard god damn wizard the maracas begin to shake and they gradually shake faster and faster and faster until they get louder and louder and louder and it sounded like our theme song hey that's right we finally have a theme song for the podcast that will be coming out next week oh wow very exciting release date for your is it all just gonna come in one it's all gonna come in one giant shot it's gonna show up you'll be able to download it and listen to the whole thing and then if there's a second season we will let you know

sure exactly it seems almost like we're obligated um we'll see I'm not I didn't think so probably I'll probably do it if you do it but I am certainly not obligated I am not good at acting or playing along with things you were great thank you you were great I was fishing for compliments I know and you caught something beautiful so Jordan today we are doing a little sneak snake episode we're in the past okay we're talking about May 28th and 29th 2003 okay um I was I was I didn't know what to expect going back to this because times a little confusing sure and the last time we went back to the past I found it to be a little bit stagnant and I was a little bit worried is like I don't feel like there's any progress about things that I know are actually

important right right right at this point um but today we we uh business picks up a little bit okay uh and I'm very excited about a couple of things that happen that have nothing to do with how important like these important stories from 2003 nothing to do with them that sounds right but there's one caller in particular that blew my mind and I spent a couple hours researching this call and I'm very excited to talk about it and we'll get to that but before we do uh Jordan we gotta take a little moment to say thank you to uh some folks who have signed up and our new wonks yay that's a good idea it was me vamping while I pulled up my sheet um so first nick fucking gauge thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thanks nick fucking gauge

this nick also asked me to do the entire steiner math promo okay well and I unfortunately could not do that oh it's way too long I was gonna say I've got a clock up but uh next nessa the cryptid thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thanks nessa okay next bad uniball parachutist zero some thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you and now it is time to get deep giving someone life is giving someone death you can say that life is death you could it's true so maddie happy birthday happy birthday ddy maddie maddie also uh I apologize I think it's gorel gorel it's uh this is one of those names that has an oh that

is a slash through it ah I don't know what to do with that letter ooh is that gorel could be I never remember with the slash that's not one of the characters that I'm aware of how to pronounce yeah there's a number of uh sort of non uh English uh symbols yeah yeah that I'm fine with totally that one I don't know what to do with I stare at it and I'm like I do oh the a with the like little spiral on top no I just just get it out of here I don't understand it this was from torstein in norway wanted to wish possibly gorel happy birthday happy birthday also Michael t happy birthday and I wanted us to give you a shout out happy birthday happy birthday next dw static also having a happy birthday happy birthday d have an happy birthday also joseph sent a message

he got a birthday but instead of wishing a happy birthday to himself he wanted to spread this to all the community of wonks and wish everyone else in the world I guess even if it's not your birthday happy yeah have the good feelings of someone wishing you happy birthday that's a good one I like that yes I like that very very nice and uh communal so thank you uh I guess that's right that's why I think we should celebrate the way that the giver did you know with uh what was that lois lauri all right everybody has the same birthday once a year everybody same birthday move on with care of it this is birthday day this is birthday the end I like it might be functional yeah we'll see so Jordan we're going to get into business uh on this episode but before we do here is an

outer context drop from today's episode no grandchildren for you alex jones is the grandchildren nazi still no grandchildren thanks the grandchildren nazi no grandchildren for you I know but it's funny that we're in the present day uh on our last episode talking about how there's no way for your next generation to grow into adults and then we go back in time and there's still going to be no grandchildren it is uh something of a preoccupation for alex seems like it um yeah it but it's not being formulated in the same way that they will all uh not grow up well it's it's it's good to know there's a lot of ways to get to the same uh destination I suppose so we start on May 28th and I will say that the beginning this episode a little bit slow um I'm lying it heats up fast

got me very interested very quickly okay okay I'm for the death penalty too I believe that a serial killer uh whatever should be executed I mean that's an eye for an eye that makes sense it's it's something that needs to be done but you have the big criminals running the government how can you trust them to meet out the death penalty so death penalty moratorium considered in North Carolina a blue collar town known for its furniture factories law and order conservatism hardly seems the kind of place that would call for a moratorium on the death penalty but people don't trust the government so how can you trust the government to hand out the death sentences I mean certainly you're for the death penalty most of you so am I but in Soviet Russia

would you be for Stalin handing out death sentences no that's illegitimate immediately I was like I am so fascinated I I got completely thrown for a curveball here is this a nuanced take it's not it it's it's something for alex no it's something that's trying to have the appearance of a nuanced take that actually isn't and honestly I think this is the first time I've ever heard alex give a definitive position on the death penalty yeah up till this point I'd gathered from context clues that he didn't support the policy given that many of his other ideas that appear to be based on principles uh have to do with the government not doing things to individuals right right the position he's putting forth is absolutely the definition of not having a position

there are a lot of reasons to be for or against the death penalty some can be based on an emotional appeal you know like people who commit certain crimes deserve death some can be based on a utilitarian calculation where you determine that if you have a death penalty there's actually a significant defect on crime rates and you make it make a decision based on that that would be a utilitarian analysis whether or not that is actually right right right still other positions can be based on ethics where there's an intrinsic moral character dissenting someone to death and that consideration guides your position and then there are sets of political beliefs that could include a strong position regarding the relationship between the individual and the state which would

impact your views on the death penalty in obvious ways alex seems to only be operating on the most elementary level here he's appealing to an emotional desire for an eye to be taken for an eye this is really unimpressive stuff from him and i once again regret that i gave him more credit than he deserves in terms of this position the other cowardly thing alex is doing here is that he's claiming that he's for the death penalty but not when the government is corrupt the level of corruptness of the government is a completely arbitrary and subjective measurement for alex so this actually means nothing according to his feelings the george w bush government and obviously the clinton one before it they are too corrupt to responsibly hand out death sentences

but it would be impossible to formalize this into any meaningful scale that you could guide like judge things on literally anyone could just counter his argument by saying that they believe that the bush administration was not too corrupt to hand out death sentences and alex would have nowhere to go he could rattle off instances of governmental corruption to try and build to a point but that still doesn't handle the subjectivity of his assessment of which government is or isn't too corrupt to sentence people to die it makes no sense was he i didn't realize that it was in specific with the level of corruption of the government i thought it was more of a blanket like you wouldn't trust the government to do that just because there's a

good chance they are corrupt in some fashion or another because they always have been no so he's he's like in specific there's more into this government really yes okay well now that doesn't make any fucking sense by presenting his position this way alex is effectively making it seem like he's taking a position when he's actually not he's in favor of the death penalty but only when it comes to some imaginary ideal government that could be in place by planting his flag there he can manage to not alienate either side of the debate while getting each to think that he's actually on their side which is a bit weasley there's an additional problem here too and that's that there's no reason why the logic alex is using should apply exclusively to punishments

involving the death penalty if your opposition to the state imposing a death penalty has to do with the state being too corrupt to responsibly give out that sentence then it should stand to reason that they're also too corrupt to responsibly incarcerate somebody the reasoning that alex is using entails a complete inability of the government to enforce any laws because they lack the moral purity or authority to do so yeah and the way he's presenting it i understand where you're coming from and i actually think that it does get closer to what the point should be you're saying that by by the very nature of it the government is too corrupt to meet out the death penalty yes yeah and i think i think that that would be a position that you could call

i guess functionally um anti death penalty and i i think that that would have much less problems than what alex is saying because he's not saying that he's saying that if there were somebody in charge who was cool right right right then the death penalty would be good because murderers deserve to die yeah no i mean if you wanted to if you wanted to get into it like well what's the level of i mean yeah nazi war criminal there's your problem it maybe the death penalties find there i guess you know that's that's an argument whether or not you can trust the government to single a single out individuals is an obvious open and closed question from all of human history the government can't do it without eventually abusing it and killing a bunch

of people that they just want gone i think what's going on is that you're giving more credence to what alex is saying than it merits yes i'm giving far more credence you're reading into this and trying to find a way for it to work when it doesn't no and we'll get it we'll we'll see more as we go along so do i always thought there would be a blanket opposition to the death penalty for alex because of the relationship between individual and state that is implied through all of his political beliefs and i was surprised when he says that he's for the death penalty i was also surprised when i heard this look it's like drugs i'm against drugs okay other than caffeine i didn't drink coffee but i i think illegal drugs are bad news so are big farmers pharmacological over the

counter and prescription garbage but at the same time we're forced to decriminalize because the government ships the drugs in to create the crisis the bigger the war on drugs gets the more drugs the more people in prison that's a fact people that is not how i've heard alex explain his opposition to drug laws at other points in his career that i've listened to every other time i've heard this discuss the issues that alex is not in favor of drugs but you have the right to take whatever you want it was literally one of the main selling points of ron paul to people on the left and one of the major tools alex tried to use to insist that he wasn't a right winger he was cool he thought drugs should be legal you have the right you're an individual you're an adult freedom totally he

clearly doesn't actually believe that his opposition to drug laws is purely a consideration of trying to break up the cartel of globalists who he believes ship in all the drugs legalization is in essence a strategic move against the globalists not something that alex supports because of the political belief that adults should be able to use drugs if they want to which is the way that he presents it pretty regularly this is super weird man i'm like five minutes into this episode and already alex has explained two of his positions on things that i thought he was pretty rational about and shown that his positions are all wrong i'm starting to question if there are any positions that he and i would agree on uh nope can't think of any oh no i don't think so no even even when

you agree he's wrong about it somehow i hold out that last bit of hope that somehow like the the conversation about like civil asset forfeiture won't somehow turn out to be like his position on that is based in some kind of like alien fear or something i'm more like we need to get way down on a base level of like you guys in a room with a mediator just being like who's got the best pizza just like start there no that's even too can you even agree on it it's the way we don't do this is this green is this green yes that's a good point yeah no nothing just pure is or is not yeah yeah so leo saying about the the execution thing the death penalty alex talks a little bit more about his feelings and this is this is where it kind of gets into like all right i can kind of see

what you're saying but it's still incredibly stupid i'm certainly for a state death penalty but it you need to have massive evidence to do it there need to be strong rules in place but no there should not be a federal death penalty ladies and gentlemen what's constitutional it's dangerous you don't want a central government having that power here's an interesting statistic that i'd like alex to chew on and maybe you know the answer to this i'm not sure if you do how many people were executed by the federal government during the eight years that obama was in office do you know zero yep zero from 1958 to 2001 only four people were executed by the federal government one of whom is timothy mcvay three of these came during

george w bush's presidency but none after march 2003 so at the point when alex is complaining about federal executions he's talking about something that won't happen again for over 17 years and then trump became president and 13 people were executed by the federal government and i don't think i ever heard alex bring it up that's because we finally had a government that wasn't corrupt right exactly this is kind of why this is kind of why i get the sense that this is oh if there's the right person in charge i don't think this is actually a problem yeah yeah because it became a giant issue during trump's presidency you would hope the the shift in tone from the previous decades to trump's four years in office in terms of federal executions was was stark insane

and the fact that it wasn't a major breaking point for alex if this is actually what his position is rooted in that oh it should only be states doing it then that's i don't know i don't know if that makes sense and i can't i don't trust it it doesn't that that idea of the different the federal government shouldn't be able to but state government should that's so stupid i can't even breathe so there have been few federal executions for trump for many years but conversely according to analysis from usa facts between 1977 and 2018 there were 1490 executions carried out by states during which period the federal government only carried out three alex's beloved state of texas quote accounted for 37 percent of all executions in this period or approximately 550 the states particularly texas

carry out the vast majority of executions and alex is saying that he's fine with that which makes absolutely no sense based on what he's pretending to base his positions on earlier if he doesn't believe the federal government should be able to sentence people to death because the government can be corrupt it's absolutely idiotic to pretend that the same concern doesn't exist in slightly lower levels of governmental organization being opposed to the death penalty but only on the federal level is the very definition of a meaningless position it only becomes more meaningless when you explicitly support state executions and you live in texas the state with the with the government that seems most interested in killing convicts it's a downright farce when you also go on to

support donald trump president who presided over 13 federal executions a total reached in four years that surpasses the number of federal executions that have been carried out for the preceding 67 years combined my point is that alex's political beliefs are idiotic and they're not based on anything but at very least this kind of brings things into focus you know at least you can kind of get a sense because he's given us this little piece of information it's just a state's rights kind of argument that doesn't have anything to do with ethics morality or even opposition or support for the death penalty okay it's it's it's it's meaningless i mean well because here's a big problem uh if you want to abolish the death penalty in texas and alex's eyes

what it should do is secede then it will be its own federal government but then we'll no longer be able to perform executions wow yeah and then i guess the state of austin would have to choose exactly they would have to hire their own executioner that then austin would have to secede that is such a fucking stupid thing to say it is beyond i mean wow yeah it's it's interesting to me because like he just hates the federal government yeah that's it he's hates the federal government so much that he's willing to like accept how many probably innocent people are being killed in the state of texas by the government tons yeah it's i don't i don't understand this i mean it's it's one of the things that i find most remarkable about it is that i could have

listened to hundreds and hundreds of hours of alex's show and still have like this be oh i had i had the baseline position that you had wrong i had way too generous of an assumption because i've heard him talk about not being in favor of the death penalty i just didn't realize that maybe it was rooted in something that's really stupid yeah yeah yeah yeah that i mean there's just yeah the only way to carry out the death penalty in alex's eyes is if there is a a i suppose philosopher king who's choosing each and every individual person based upon god's orders and when we talk about philosophers we're talking about trump donald trump donald that fucking trump yep so at this point the process and policy of debathification is in place right

and alex still is not addressing that or dealing with it in any way which will end up being i think a gigantic thing he was wrong about yeah and here is another thing vis-a-vis the iraq war that alex is very wrong about i want to take calls on a bunch of subjects today they haven't found weapons of mass destruction but don't worry they're going to find uh some uh here pretty soon and say see we told you so i can see from what they're doing that's the propaganda that they're setting up that's the uh the play they're running on us right now now in 2021 looking back i do not believe they did find yeah you know that's that's alex almost uh on the almost underestimating the government that's alex being like well you know they wouldn't just straight up lie us into a war right yeah i mean

like if his if his ideas were correct about how the globalists operate their level of control over everything yeah that's exactly what would have happened because he's writing that novel yeah because that would have been the way that they are like see we proved it because we set it up the whole time instead of him really not grasping that they could just lie us into a war which seems weird for a guy whose job is to turn lies into money yeah well yeah it's that that that conversation though about what what you need to do or how you should respond to the reality of the the iraq war in the lead up to it um that lie isn't easily monetized it's right it's not super easily turned into and that's why you need to buy my tapes right right right that's fair that's fair

this is yeah yeah yeah the government is operating with complete impunity and lying to your faces about starting a war for this reason uh buy my pills no that's like let's do something about that to be fair alex isn't selling pills at this point but what it is is is kind of like ah here is the science fiction conspiracy intrigue spy novel that's going on and if you read all my information you'll be able to crack the code right right and then we'll be able to transcend it that's the that's the sale that he's offering yesh so i think that these two things if you if you were to listen to this episode one of the things you would definitely take away from it is that this position on drugs and this position on the death penalty are things that alex really wants to take calls about

i think it's a slow news day for him i think he's trying to solicit calls yeah now at the same time i don't know if i can get a sense that these are fictional versions of his positions like i don't think he's saying these things to try and antagonize people sure like uh someone might on a shitty call in talk show right right right it does seem like oh this this makes sense that you could believe that it's just stupider than i thought your positions were yeah um and so he takes calls and this one guy who calls in he wants to sort of distinguish when we're talking about drugs we're talking about like not weed right sure no no no no and alex is not chill i agree with you that uh cocaine heroin uh crack methamphetamines i i do agree with you that all those drugs are bad

and all those drugs uh that you'll notice are synthetically made by humans now marijuana i could don't consider to be personally a drug and i think that's very uh important for people to understand that a lot of the drug laws uh as they were put down as time passed were not really made to stop the drugs but let me let me stop you this whole yeah stop them there and i agree with some of what you're gonna say but and what you said but look nightshade grows naturally it'll kill you if you eat it too much of it uh wow cyanide shows up naturally good point that'll kill you so this line that marijuana isn't a drug is a joke this kind of feels like trolling you got me yeah well with an argument that good nothing i can say against that yeah wow i i i feel like from alex's branding

that he wants to put forth about himself he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to be quibbling about uh whether or not weeds a drug when he's talking about being against drugs i think weed grows and it's you know it's not really that much of a drug oh yeah well did you know poisons exist they grow aha now everything's illegal smash cut too close to the present day and alex's smoking blunts yes on joe rogan's show exactly you fucking a hypocritical asshole uh look i like i like this tobacco oh man what a jerk yeah he definitely cut him off before he said you know these drugs were illegalized because of and then the answer to that was going to be criminalizing underrepresented groups in government especially racism and poor he does bring that up a little bit

and alex like hey i am fine but he also this caller brings up the death penalty and alex's position on it and and scholar has a interesting reason to be against the death penalty he's coming from a utilitarian perspective he believes that the death penalty is not a deterrent i want to say i guess another point i'm again i see myself being against the death penalty more just because of the fact that i really don't see it as a detractor from violence i could see oh yes it is it is an incredible deterrent the death penalty uh is is is is a good thing if it's done by the states or locally not federally and now you can't believe anything this federal government hands down because of all the dna fraud they've been involved in that's my point we've got to get rid

of the federal death penalty because this government can't be trusted i guess alex got his wish i mean from the moment he said those words there were literally zero federal executions until he's chosen god king trump came into office and started wantonly killing people yeah i really wish he had gotten the death penalty abolished at the federal level yeah also consistently research has shown that there's no discernible deterrent effect in having a death penalty statistically violent crime and murder rates are lower in states that do not have death penalties and a 2018 study reported on death penalty info found that countries typically see uh reduction in murder rates after they abolish the death penalty the study looked at murder rates for uh 10 years after 11 countries

got rid of capital punishment and they found that six of them had lower rates all 10 years four had one or two years above the baseline and then saw a downward trend underneath the uh previous level only the country of georgia had a higher murder rate after and explaining exactly why that might be the case is beyond me or this study anyway the point here is that no credible data that would back up alex's conjecture that the death penalty is a good deterrent for crime exists it's not a good deterrent dan it's an incredible deterrent according to alex it's almost like you can't believe how good a deterrent it is it feels like it would be since you'd think that people would be less likely to commit crimes if they knew they might get killed for them but that feeling is not

based in reality according to the cdc's numbers the states with the three highest death rates from homicide in 2019 were mississippi louisiana and alabama all three of these states have active death penalties this shouldn't be the case if what alex is saying is true but it's not because he's not living in the real world yeah yeah it's it seems like the death penalty exists almost to justify an emotional need in uh i guess voters you know well and i think that that's what you see when you when you hear alex talking at the beginning like his support for the death penalty comes out of the emotional appeal to people deserve to die yep and i think that that is the lowest level of reasoning that you can approach the situation from other than i guess randomness yeah that's the

yeah yeah yeah flip a coin i don't know maybe yeah yeah appealing to a motion of like i think that this person deserves to die because they committed this crime is is not um a well thought through position and obviously you know people's feelings are different about different crimes and you know you'd get yourself in a lot of trouble right if everything was organized that way right and that does seem to be what alex is is basing it on this caller has a slightly more evolved position than alex and alex is telling them that they're wrong right yeah no i mean it's it is that kind of feedback loop of yes it is the most base thing the most base form of reasoning is that appeal to him an emotion of this person did bad bad happens to this person now you know and that's why so many

prosecutors in and elected attorney positions are fucking running on those like look at how tough and look at how cruel i have been because that appeals to that emotional base and it's it's where on order yeah it's how we get to where we are is they can exploit the lowest form of reasoning to only enact worse god that sucks yeah because i think i think that the other thing too that is part and parcel with that is that the appeal to that emotion of this person deserves this because they did this crime is also an appeal to like your feelings of security and stability sure because if you're the person who is hearing a politician be like i'm tough on crime really how it how it hits you and how you experience it isn't so much about like they deserve this

it's i i get the feeling that i will be safe from crime because this person is taking care of those right right those things yes the bad people who get bad done to them yeah and i think i think that that security is an artificial emotional crutch that alex is selling to you bet so these callers are not great um alex has another caller who's uh hey man i got another idea about what we do about crime all right you know america is the most technologically advanced nation on the planet yet we still engage in barbarity and savagery you know like uh i figured that you should take the criminals once it's been proven that they criminals they don't commit these vile acts or whatever put them on the island with their own kind and you know or never let them off you know

that's an idea that's been tried before where and i certainly think that if someone is convicted take these people and put them on an island put the violent offenders together let them enjoy their own type their own type of hate exactly what uh i was with this guy until he got the island idea i think we should send all of our criminals around the world to one island perhaps a continent even a big island huge island just send them all there and i'm sure it'll never come back no um i i feel like this guy had some points that you know like we have a barbaric system in place right i'm listening people should be uh you know given due process and make sure that they're guilty before sure being punished yeah i'm with it send them to an island oh boy here's

what i think we should do restart the state of georgia see i feel like that clip is a really good tell that alex isn't coming in with any real position that has an application in the real world because in the modern day the idea of creating a penal colony is stupid if he just wants people to call in and discuss how they would like to punish criminals i guess that's fine but is not a productive use of time it does seem like everybody's having a little bit of a fantasy like here's how i would punish criminals all right now you think the death penalty is a good idea what i would do is i would fill their room with cupcakes and then cover their hands in plastic bags and open their mouths real wide and they would eat one cupcake every day see now that's

interesting that's how you self drive someone you drive someone insane like this color does not have an idea that that is quite as innovative as your approach to criminal justice but mine might work this one would not i think the state should only have the power of death and i think it's like no quarter no half measures if someone is vile and wicked enough then you have to put them to death when you put them in prison all that does is create a situation where oh that's merciful it's okay to put somebody in prison because they walked on the grass they put nonviolent people in prison they come out hardened thugs it's a historical fact exactly i too feel like there are too many people in prison but i strongly disagree with this entire conversation this is a

unhinged position that would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny so if i were talking to this guy sure as a guy who is like hosting a radio show where you're taking calls on subject i have a couple questions that i would start off with all right let's start this here here's my here's my job okay i think the death penalty should be for everything well where's the line on when someone's bad enough that you got to kill them did they step on my grass no apparently apparently he's not for that okay but like what offense would qualify someone for the state to commit all violent crimes so okay interesting like what about assault like what if i just came up to you and i punched you wow you got to die that's vile that i don't know man i i feel i feel

and hands should be chopped off for property theft if we're gonna be brutal i'm going for because he's saying that the state should not have the power to do anything except kill what is this deal i don't know what is your idea this is a completely untenable way to organize society like if you think that white collar criminals have it easy now imagine how they would do in that oh my god where the punishment is death or nothing i guess maybe this caller has an unstated position about what states can do so maybe maybe states can have a robust criminal justice system but the federal government can just kill only kill but then alex would have to disagree with that because he doesn't think the federal government should be able to kill what

about a hunger game scenario if we're gonna get baddie and just have the federal government with the right to kill or zero kill i say we may have a have some fun with it this is the problem with people who think they can improve society with their terrible ideas they don't have fun and you just want the government to kill people no making a show man what about now here this is not very fun okay i admit this is a little in the weeds all right all right i would like to know what this person thinks about fines i would imagine this person has received a great many fines in his day i think that these conversations are stupid sir you can't be in my office anymore sir this is a hundred dollar fine i'm listening to this show and blown away that alex is articulating

his opposition to the death penalty and uh drugs the way he is yeah and then he takes these calls and they're idiotic insane are completely stupid absolutely absolutely insane so then he gets another caller and this lady i don't know what to i can't make heads or tails of what she's talking about okay i think i can it's just a long story a long story about from what i can tell the details of it are that there were some police that showed up at her house um because she has uh some acres of land uh and there was maybe something suspicious going on on some of the acres of the land that she allows other people to use and they wanted to look into what was going on and so she let them in and they said thank you for letting us look around and this is a giant conspiracy of some sort

she's under attack okay uh that escalated very quickly this turns into alex screaming okay okay intense stuff sure like this so what happened next well um you know they were real nice and they said you know we appreciate your you know um your cooperation and other trash and that's what you and i told the children all the children were there and we had see i homeschooled my children and they called gcf on you they're real no absolutely but see my children read better than their friends what are the child grabbing services good to you if your husband died well by the way the hospitals have tracking records of that they know when a woman's alone they attack like predators when you're weak their child kidnapping trash that's a little bit of an extreme response to the

story that this person is telling him yeah so like she has uh 70 acres of land her husband had passed away and she does say that she allows people to use like 30 acres of it sure um and there's not really a good sense that she has an idea of what's going on sure sure some law enforcement showed up wanted to look around like i said because they had reason to believe there was something suspicious there they didn't find anything and they thanked her for cooperation and now we've done this i fully understand standing up for your rights and if this lady had chosen to let the police look around or told them to come back with a warrant i think either is an appropriate choice to make in her situation it's one thing to be mindful of your rights and protect them it's another thing to do

what alex is doing where he's turning trying to take some very benign details this caller is giving him and escalate the story into hospitals keeping track of when you're alone so they can kidnap your kids this is a sick person acting out at his audience even back in 2003 yeah you see a bit less of this at this point in his career but it's pretty clear that this behavior is still part of alex's psyche even back back at this point yeah yeah that's gross that's uh that's great that's a great way to calm someone down who's just had a bit of a scary experience not used to having cops show up at their place you know to have somebody to bounce things off of like hey dcfs is following you and they're gonna steal your kids at any moment and that's what i want to call me down and steal

your land and steal your land apparently because this caller also brings up that one of the police that showed up and knew her husband her late husband uh alex he was taking her the land back alex takes this to be like oh he knew you had of course of course of course this is no indications modern day witch burning dand it's they're trying to take money and property and women and honestly she's lucky she survived you know like you say big bullies you know just go oh we have a right beer they come out in the only way that you know that they're the law is because they have their shiny badge and they have their go there only a step away they're now recruiting illegals criminals you name it they're and they've caught them in california they're they're only a step away

from walking you to the back of the house blowing the back of your head off and and throwing down a bag of marijuana and taking your land and moving into it with their fat stinking bellies well i want you to know he would not take your 9 11 uh the road to tyranny tape i mean it she tried to give them the 9 11 road to tyranny tape they have a 90 wake up on that dan yeah i know howards howards um yep so apparently the police were looking to squat on this land or i don't know it's it was a very extreme turn uh he takes a lot of time uh sort of yelling at this lady seems to have a really good time yeah yeah it sounds like he's having a cracking time yeah and uh it all leads inevitably exactly where it's supposed to go i'm sorry don i'm just

i'm sick of it i god bless you i'm too and listen you don't know how many people out here you've woke up like you know i give your tapes away i want you to make a hundred copies and i want you to tell the neighbors that story and say we need you to make a hundred copies and for them to make a hundred copies let's have 10 000 copies of my video in that area so people know what they're dealing with let's expose the criminals yeah so the only solution uh everything bottle next to promoting alex's stuff see that takes me back that takes that's good old-fashioned religion is what that is right there that's somebody telling you a story and you listening to them and you being part of them and you giving them the spirit of god and then at the end of it my friend what you

need to do is evangelize that is the way you pay for your sins you can hear alex sweating yeah yeah of excitement from the forehead we need a hundred tapes out of you yeah wow so alex has a guest after this okay he goes to break comes back he's got a guest very exciting guest uh let's uh now go to a special guest i appreciate joining me on short notice good friend of mine great sponsor of this show it's his water sponsor here we go it's his uh the u.s distributor of black berkey water filters is his guest i'm i'm afraid that i just don't think it's going to get much better than the soap guy no it's just not no i have not yet heard another guest who is so clearly abusing alex oh just forcing him to set up limericks yeah that no no no that's

just too good marty shactor uh is well just just the best that he even exists is beautiful yeah it really is it makes me feel good i don't want his soap but i'm sure he's an awful person but in terms of somebody who has bullied their way onto alex's show with money and forced him to uh broadcast limericks pretty great it's pretty great yeah but i will say this is not limerick level but it is still pretty funny that this is what's going on on alex's show and uh it's an amazing system and they have an insane deal where i told you a pallet fell over a couple days ago a few of them got broke most of them got a few scratches those that have any real damage are being thrown away instead of 199 dollars for the two filter black berkey clear filter that does dozens of gallons

a day tens of thousands gallons in its lifetime only 149 50 dollars for the scratch and dent sale and a lot of these don't even have a scratch on it it's a great deal folks you need to get this oh my god a pallet fell over what kind of fucking hold up the used car salesman ass we got a pallet fell over so they're 50 bucks cheaper i thought that was pretty amazing get that i was thrilled listen hey it fell off the back of a truck sale you walk up you take it you give me cash and you go away no questions asked yeah i thought that was i mean low rent is the term i would use for that salesman almost mint condition lightly used you probably wouldn't even been able to tell that these fell off a pallet you might actually suspect that we just

have too many of them and we want to move on to we pretend that i can't believe you got so lucky that you got the one good one off the broken pallet that's amazing 50 bucks off for you good job every month we have a guy pretend to not go over a pallet good good fine yeah so we into the 29th uh and alex not to outdo himself has another guest in this episode that he teases the beginning of the show we have another guest coming on uh in alabama and uh georgia and other uh states in the uh south they're having massive military checkpoints for the last three years in a road and i've caught some of these on video here in texas but now they're routing the highway off the road the cars into the national guard armory they are rand sacking vehicles literally foaming at the

mouth we have seen this over and over and over again and we've got a guest coming on to uh talk about that coming up in about 30 minutes this is what the national seatbelt use initiative is all about bill clinton funded with billions of dollars a year in 98 yep seatbelt uh clicking her ticket is about getting cars to armories to ram sack such a weird stretch of time for us specifically so much seatbelt related melodrama a lot of seatbelt in a very short period of time for us yeah and it is very weird and it is weird it's another sign of my witchcraft that in the present day alex was going down to mcallin texas and doing the seatbelt snitch act they're not wearing their seatbelts yeah it is it is it does add a little bit of a hilarity that these things

are sort of so existing in our show at the same time yeah bananas so i don't want to spoil anything for you sure but this caller doesn't actually have much to say oh it doesn't prove a lot of this oh no so this next clip gets into something that's a i think a little bit murky and there's a lot of there's probably a good bit of explanation that i need to a lot of track on this one sure but alex starts talking i was very confused and it took a while to sort of disentangle some of these these threads i heard Joyce Riley talking about the report out of brazil yesterday so i went and got the actual document we're posting it on info wars dot com right now of course this has been out for years but i think it's important to remind people of it she reminded me when i heard her show

yesterday morning and i have the actual report put out by the national security agency and the cia population and national security 30 page report where dr kissinger and others talk about exterminating half of the third world's population through birth control forced sterilization and it's been going on since the mid 70s tens of billions of dollars of your tax money to do it and uh my friends it's just amazing here's the headline brazil launches inquiry into u.s population activities billion sterilized to meet u.s policy objectives the u.s sponsored program that resulted in the sterilization of nearly half of brazil's women has prompted a formal congressional inquiry sponsored by more than 165 legislators from every political party that have represented in the brazilian

legislature the investigation has ignited after information about a secret u.s national security council memorandum on american population control objectives in developing countries was published in the journal of brazil and other major newspapers in early may now again this goes back to the early 90s we have the 30 page report directly off the library of congress you can link through at info wars dot com and read it so just listening to this i started with a little bit of confusion because he's talking about a report out of brazil yeah and so he said that we have this report and so i was like does he have the report itself right what is the report and it didn't make sense to me because he he claims he's read this thing he's posting it it's a 30 page report called population

and homeland security okay so i'm starting to put the pieces together but that that there's no such report sure well that that was not a report out of brazil this is something else this is this national security report right i know what he's talking about it this it's not doesn't match what he's saying the report he's referring to his national security study memorandum 200 from december 1974 the subtitle of the report is quote implications of worldwide population growth for u.s security and overseas interest but the problem is that documents 123 pages long not 30 i don't know what he's talking about maybe some report about that report yeah and you would say like oh maybe he only read 30 pages of it but he didn't read two pages of the 30 pages that don't he didn't read

of the 124 pages yeah that i don't know what the specific report he's talking about is but i do know that underneath it is this nssm 200 okay and we've talked about it in the past particularly in the end game coverage and stuff but to give a brief recap of it this is not a plan to sterilize the world that's a fake version of this document that alex has imagined because it's really about providing foreign aid in the form of health care and reproductive assistance to people in less developed countries and alex is super against that yeah he's smart enough to know that he would look like an asshole if he spent his time passionately yelling about how evil it is to provide health care to people in developing countries so what he does is attack the policies

and proposals to do just that by pretending that they're actually plans to kill everyone and he's a hero for telling you about the evil plot yeah if you actually go read nssm 200 after having only heard alex yell about it one of the things you'll be surprised by is how much of the document is not about providing reproductive options to people in the developing world at all in reality it's about the implications of the post world war two population growth that's been seen around the world and how it could impact the general stability of the world mostly as seen through the prism of us interests even as it relates to fertility the document places equal importance on programs aimed at quote improved health care and nutrition to reduce child mortality

education and improved social status for women increased female employment improved old age security and assistance for the rural poor as it does on issues surrounding birth control the word sterilization is used two times in the document in the same paragraph when it's listed as one of the short term options that are available to provide improved fertility control for people in the developing world there's a list of options like oral contraception iud and even teaching ovulation prediction and the rhythm method yeah and sterilization in this context that it's being used is things like tubal legation or vasectomies uh so that's the thing sterilization is a word that's a bit loaded on the one hand coerced or pressured sterilization is definitely hugely

unethical and unacceptable and there is a history of it in the world and i'm not minimizing that totally on the other hand there's a long and widespread history of people using voluntary sterilization as a method of birth control and brazil is a place with an interesting history on that front there's a much larger picture here in a bigger story to unpack than what alex is doing he's pitching a made-up version of this document from the 70s combining it with a recent headline he's read from brazil and declaring his work done in reality he's done nothing and he's covering up what's actually going on under the surface the actual news headline here uh that he has is about an investigation in brazil into the history of sterilizations which was said to have

been prompted by reports about nssm 200 in brazilian outlets instead of talking about the details of brazilian sterilizations and what this actual news story is about alex just rattles off his normal talking points about the memo and he pats himself on the back that was unsatisfying for me as a listener so i decided to look a little bit deeper into the subject for a little background on the situation that alex is covering it's important to understand the roots of family planning history in brazil as discussed by jose alvis professor of the national school of statistical sciences at the brazilian institute of geography and statistics titled quote the context of family planning in brazil from the early days there was a moratorium on any sort of birth control federal

decree 2029 one from 1932 quote established that doctors are forbidden from indulging in any practice whose aim is to prevent contraception or terminate gestation in 1941 a law was passed making it a crime to even advertise processes or substances that would be meant to encourage reproductive choice as you could probably imagine this didn't stop the public demand for birth control options and beginning in 1965 a group called family well-being civil society started providing some family planning services though they were unable to meet demand and even if they could the ability to provide things like oral contraception uh was nearly impossible in the context of brazil's laws yeah the country was playing from behind and it didn't help that in 1964 brazil

was the locale of a u.s. supported coup that led to the installation of a military dictatorship that lasted until 1985 over the course of that period opinions began to soften on family planning with the becoming seen more as a matter of individual rights and health decision making by the time uh that the real progress was being made on the issue of reproductive rights there were already a ton of people in brazil who had opted for sterilization as a means of birth control and many of them were women who already had kids and didn't want more and that predates the nssm 200 memo that alex is talking about sure one of the primary drivers i've been able to find uh identified as contributing to a high number of sterilizations in the country

has to do with the period just after the end of the military dictatorship as the country went through the process of democratization one of the moves that was made uh was to decentralize the medical system so there would be more local control and responsibility for the providing of health care to the public this was a decision that cut in two directions particularly in higher poverty less developed areas of the country as explained in an article from the journal population development review from march 2004 quote well efforts to improve and decentralize the administration of the public health care system undoubtedly led to progress in a number of larger municipalities it is possible that decentralization actually fueled clientelism in smaller and poorer municipalities

by providing an additional source of assets to be used for political purposes decentralization resulted in a two-tiered system in which the better off segments of the population opted for private managed health care while low-income groups were left to depend on public services of uneven or poor quality in which preventative medicine as well as contraception had long been undervalued it was in this context as politics and health care provision became deeply entangled and the demand for contraception rose among low-income groups with few alternative options for birth control that sterilization acquired importance in the clientelistic exchange of medical care for votes this paper interviewed many doctors politicians and 281 women from

the northeast region of the country who had undergone sterilization to understand the dynamics that were at play from the paper quote considering all our sterilized respondents 71% that they said that they took the initiative of asking for the surgery while 22% reported that the physician had suggested the procedure or had provided a medical indication for it people want reproductive health care that they just didn't have access to one doctor they spoke with explained the prevalence of sterilizations the reason one of them is that there's a shortage of other options and even if something like the pill was available it's only available quote on an irregular basis which prevents which kind of makes it pointless yeah in this climate where there is

a demand for birth control and no access to it people who are in positions to provide some access pop up the authors of the paper talked to another surgeon who explained quote in the region there are a lot of physicians involved in politics the mayor is a physician the ex-mayor too the ex-state deputy elected by the region is a hospital owner and physician therefore they either perform the operation themselves or they ask a friend a favor all these mayors are friends of physicians essentially the way it would work is that because the state wouldn't reimburse the doctor for performing a tubal legation they would do it in conjunction with another procedure at the patient's request in order to game the bureaucracy sure of the 281 women they spoke to 159 had personally

asked a politician for a favor to get a tubal legation and 100 said that they quote returned the favor by voting for them 78 of those 100 even quote tried to obtain additional votes for their benefactors it's a compelling snapshot here this mutually beneficial yet inherently exploitative system that arose out of the inability of people to access reliable self-directive reproductive health care it's always so fascinating to me how i can get curious about a subject that alex is talking about scratch the surface a little bit and find that the exact solution to it is the thing that he opposes the most yep yep it's wild yep yep and again nothing that i'm saying is meant to minimize or pretend that eugenic applications of sterilization have not been used many times in

history that's absolutely the truth no of course it's just that there's a wider story that exists in terms of brazilian history than alex cares to even be curious about the headline he's reporting on is about this investigation in brazil and it's nothing new a parliamentary commission of inquiry was opened in 1967 to explore accusations of mass sterilizations and another was launched in 1983 there was a third open in 1991 quote to examine the spread of female sterilization in brazil and identify persons or organizations responsible for its misuse this was followed by a national congress investigation in 1992 that was to examine quote the possible racist motivations behind the provision of sterilization the role of international agencies and interests the availability of

alternative birth control methods to low-income women and the politically motivated use of tubal legations the result was that quote in its final report the congressional cpi echoed the findings of the state's investigations by noting that pervasive poverty and the lack of reproductive health services contributed to women's dependence on sterilization as a birth control method shocking no one not really yeah this has been a matter that's widely discussed and it's something that has been investigated and talked about in terms of brazil for many years and i'm fairly certain that alex doesn't even know about the existence of these previous investigations he just thinks that recently in brazil someone found an ssm 200 and like the whole thing's blowing up and exploding

now which is just dumb alex provides his audience with a dumb but easy to understand story that leads them to accepting bad positions if you're opposed to sterilization being used as a birth control method then waging a crusade against widespread access to alternative birth control methods is exactly the wrong way to do it ah or you could have a draconian crackdown and remove all rights from women huh there are two ways to go yeah there are two ways to go i'm not saying that one is better than the other yeah and one of the things that i i found really difficult was that like i don't know uh like and obviously i would never say that the use of sterilization or tuba ligation and to a lesser extent vasectomies but that wasn't that wasn't as widely sure

discussed in the short sources that i was able to find um i wouldn't ever pretend to be naive enough to think that there wasn't any abuse no of course of it and even the system that that one paper that i found discussing the clientelism aspect of it in poor less developed areas like that is intrinsically exploitative oh no the power balance is fucked up yeah it would never happen like this if everyone had agency exactly exactly yeah um and and the what is available to be offered is an unfair exchange yeah of course i wouldn't bet that there aren't instances of also abuse yeah of course um it it's people it's just that the stories that you hear about sterilization campaigns being used as methods of of genocide or eugenics or what alex wants you to think every

single birth control initiative ever has been yes and that's unfair because i think it's a disservice to the campaigns that have happened yeah horrors yeah yeah yeah no i'm yeah yeah it's it is it is uh it's it's difficult for alex simply because you can't before any kind of birth control you you just can't like there's no way for alex to square being like okay it's okay for sterilizations if there's no other available birth control method so it always has to be wrapped up in something else being a murder that's the only way you can talk about birth control through his eyes you know but his politics don't allow for you to be able to dictate what someone can do with their own body like if you say i want that person's a woman they do fine then let's make it vasectomies

that yeah well exactly yeah you it's it can't ever be someone's rational choice uh to engage in a birth control act it always has to be some sort of a conspiracy where you're tricked into it yeah because if it is one time a rational choice then that means that there are other people who can make that same rational choice and then all of a sudden there are a lot of things that you have to recontextualize is maybe that's a rational choice too until it becomes reasonable to assume that some forms of birth control are rational actors and then your whole argument about how everybody's trying to kill you is kind of gone it hurts yeah so this this conversation is about birth control it's about uh reproductive rights and health but alex takes this story about brazil and you can

see him pivot it because he doesn't know really what anything is about and he has a certain amount of talking points um and he makes it about vaccines because he also believes that they're trying to sterilize the third world through putting secret stuff in vaccines and stuff um and so he just takes this story and makes it about that because it works this is the mindset so you go ahead and take your vaccines america people wonder why the male sperm count is down by 76 percent as of 2000 i haven't seen the numbers in 2001 yet or 2002 they come out years after Europe's sperm count is down by 80% anticipated report i know dozens of women that are friends of the family who are healthy who don't use drugs who are 30 years old who cannot have children

europe's population in some cities is off by 50 percent overall in the next 30 years europe will lose about 40 percent of its population whole cities are ghost towns now in germany and france in england they're replacing them with immigrants from the third world hey so you can see what the policy has done it's not just in africa and latin america so you go ahead and take your tetanus shot you go ahead and give your daughter that tetanus shot and you wonder why she can't give you grandchildren 15 20 years from now okay no grandchildren for you no grandchildren for you it is still about vaccines that he's yelling no grandchildren no grandchildren for you yep has anybody had any grandchildren white fear there quite a bit um yeah some people have

grandkids what in the past 20 years i have not heard of any new grandkids now i mean technically in the past two years i have had three combined nieces and nephews appear into this world so if i but but who's grandchildren oh god you're so stupid so stupid yeah so stupid yeah i don't know i i don't want to speak uh too much about like not believing alex because i feel like i do it too much yeah but i wonder i wonder if these people that he knows who can't have kids are made up or like the lieutenant kernels he talks about all the time could be made up so i gotta tell my i gotta tell my family to start vaccinating their kids if they want them to stay at that baby you know how some people are like oh i wish they could stay this age forever right guys covid vaccine now

three years old forever i jordan i just had a terrifying moment what's that i have to make a correction oh no um i said that alex makes things up i have to i forgot folks you've been listening to show for four or five years six years some of you some of the eight years you live here in austin and you know i don't make stuff up i post the documents on info wars.com for the five years we've had the website we tell the truth here and i'm sorry if the truth is scary but truth is stranger than fiction and you had better wake up i mean the evil is spiraling out of control now is the time to stand up for america we have got to do it now we could not wait any longer certainly can't wait 18 more years no no no it's gotta be done now

gotta be done so i'm sorry i'm sorry that i uh claimed that alex made things up i forgot that he said that he doesn't make things up no i think he's got a good case for uh libel yeah probably so uh here's something that alex is making up sure the average doctor giving you the shot is mandated by the AMA it's not a lob he will try to bully you into it how dare you question him the AMA says it's good it must be good the AMA is a corporate body owned by the military industrial complex what's compartmentalization only the people working at the vaccine plants at the higher levels only a few hundred know what they're doing and they're all CIA what many of them are nazis ladies and gentlemen what we are under attack ladies and gentlemen and you've got to

face the facts all right that escalated three levels very quickly yeah AMA no you thought it was doctor's bullshit military industrial complex sure what's that no you thought it was military industrial complex uh-uh 300 people know the real truth about vaccines what's that you think it's just 300 people no it's 300 nazis cia nazi cia nazis literal nazis i just also like to see this in uh like uh sort of relationship with alex complaining about everyone calling him a nazi yes it can cause everybody nazis in the past you are a boy everybody seatbelts are a problem well but that's because they are that is true yeah that's all right and his history has borne out that he's taking it much more seriously in the present so it seems like it's

anyway um as we discuss on pretty much every 2003 episode yeah one of the things i'm most interested in is trying to figure out if alex believes he's fighting the literal christian devil yes i'm still not sure although this gets me a little closer okay everything is just bonkers ladies and gentlemen we are under massive attack by what can only be described as pit of hades say panic forces oh i mean it just freaks me out every day to do this show i cannot believe how insane things have gotten that was getting so close to the i gotta quit that was that was really close um but yeah but it can be described as pit of hell forces yeah it's not good enough that's not quite there damn it it's close though not quite there yeah and even though he said massive

attack the song is named angel not devil so we can't go that and that angle if we want maybe he's a big fan of tricky could be yeah could be also a teardrop yep yep there was that one theme song from house uh what was the didn't they do the entire soundtrack for a jet lee movie where he probably he was a he was a dog he was a jet lee was captured by a british gangster and he was raised as he i would bet you a morgan freeman was in that one i bet you a dollar there on the snatch soundtrack oh they're on the snatch soundtrack my friend don't you dare say they're not even if they're not they are they are yes spiritually yeah they are the snatch soundtrack yeah so alex has this caller coming in to talk about seatbelt stuff ending up in ransacking at the armory but

we're about to go to bill mcfallon who's in alabama who has seen these massive military checkpoints with the black helicopters the whole nine yards we've gotten these on video in texas but they're intensifying it it's been going on since before 911 and during the clicketer ticket system the army directed people into the national guard armory that's coming up in just one moment but first ladies and gentlemen i want to tell you about herbal healer dot com that sucks but it's also like all right there's no passion behind it no clearly paid programming or whatever it's clearly an ad i i don't i don't think that that's unethical i think it's a little bit disjointed somewhat but whatever it's it's how you would expect ads to work in a radio show yes and the

reason that i'm playing it even though it is more like here's the topic we're going to get into before we get to that i want to talk to you about a sponsor right like i'm playing that because that's not how he does it no later times it's it's so eroded yeah yeah no that's almost like a 1950s tv show where they would cut in with an actual actor from the show and be like i know we're having a grand time watching this thing going on but first let me tell you about thompson's yeah yeah yeah i also think that alex's sales pitch is a little underwhelming ancient knowledge that's been passed on they've got books for your region on naturally occurring treatments and cures they have it's ridiculous i'm looking at their catalog here folks this thing is a hundred pages

long they've got the natural remedies to get the parasites out of your body that most people have uh apple cider vinegar plus formula one uh super x uh super x folks it goes on and on it goes on and on and on just get the free catalog you're insane it doesn't feel like doesn't feel like someone who's super familiar with uh super x i like whatever you're doing at ad read in the middle of it you get mad that you have to continue doing it goes on and on it just goes on and on it's a hundred pages this catalog it just goes on and on just get the k you're insane so this guy um calls in or this guest because he's this guy might as well be a fucking caller but he's a guest he's a bona fide guest who uh has some experience with the clicker ticket campaign

i guess that takes you to the armory i don't know if this guy actually i mean he definitely didn't say that he did well i would imagine that would be hard so i was listening to the details of this guy's story okay from everything i can tell he there was just like a traffic stop sure and he didn't have to stop oh but other people did okay and alex makes it a little bit racial okay we were allowed to pass through although we drove very very slowly after the stop yeah they just randomly pick cars out randomly just saying they stopped the uh volvo with the old people they stopped the volvo with a very old couple in it and uh as we drove slowly passed those that don't know they will have cia fema operators the type listeners you've seen in the road to

tyranny in kansas city teaching a classroom of police that quote christians founding fathers or terrorists so what if they have to die we have the training manuals constitutionalist home schoolers if you look conservative and we've seen this happen if you've got a giant turban on your head you speed through the fema directors on the ground will direct the young troops and the police to go after uh middle america this is training them that uh uh middle america was a little telling fair middle america yeah going after uh uh middle america also that clip is about a minute long and it begins with this guy who's the caller saying that he went right through the checkpoint yeah i don't i didn't hear the part where he said i was wearing a giant turban well i mean that's

that's assumed with all of those conversations just because if you are driving through austin you know the only way to avoid the comes by wearing a turban this guy's not in austin okay to be fair all right he's in alabama he's in alabama well mama and i i've traditionally i have not seen turbans treated well in alabama well you haven't been to a checkpoint i haven't been to a clicker ticket that's true i have not had to click at her ticket in alabama um so yeah this this uh interview is the definition of why is this happening yeah i don't know you went to a checkpoint you saw a couple of people get pulled over uh and now uh look i had a small percentage chance of receiving a ticket so alex is going to turn this into a vast racial conspiracy to destroy white people

basically yeah uh that's about right so there's another story that alex is trying to make people scared about it has to do with fingerprint scans being used for school lunches and we'll talk about that a tiny bit uh after he pretends to be very emotional about it sad imagine 20 years ago making some 1984 movie a brand new world movie you know a phx 1138 type film where the kids imagine a future movie imagine if they'd have made america with a k with chris herstopperson and where the communists take over and imagine the movie the kids having to thumb stand to get food you'd have been oh that will never happen imagine that nightmare future and now there are dozens of school districts that we know of in texas that are doing and it's happening in england to get library books to get food

oh man i mean come on and simultaneously it's going in the driver's license facilities the banks the grocery stores people from kansas to new york to texas come on you want to fight these people get my videos make hundreds of copies aramon access tv over and over again the only way to solve these problems are to promote alex's products it just seems uh almost too easy yeah it seems almost too easy to defeat the global all all roads lead to that bottleneck of the solution is free publicity for info wars it's really convenient for him so this story about the the fingerprinting this wasn't mandatory students could choose to use a pin number instead of their fingerprint if they wanted to and from a 2005 article about this program quote about four

percent of students have chosen that option which is they're right they can choose that if they want apparently this is a really good system for school lunches for a couple of reasons the first is that it streamlines overcrowded school lunch lines which is a problem in uh in many overcrowded schools the second is that by making the transaction uniform in appearance you completely eliminate the stigma that many kids feel if they're on launch assistance programs i haven't been in school in a while but when i was i do remember that the kids who got free lunch got picked on for being poor and that system that you have there eliminates that possibility which i think is a really good thing yeah it's a shitty system where you just by being born are made fun of yeah

in terms of privacy issues there are definitely some things but they were discussed and the positives outweighed the concerns and the concerns were addressed a copy of the student's fingerprint is connected to a unique identifier but the stored data isn't the actual fingerprint also quote parents who do not want their child fingerprinted may obtain an opt-out form of course so of course none of this uh i don't know i just don't care yeah i don't know why this is the most pressing issue your argument to me can never be can you imagine making a sci-fi film in the 70s and thinking oh they'll use their fingerprints to get lunches that's that's nothing to me if every time i use my fucking credit card i tap it against a thing and it references

a ridiculous amount of information about me in an instant and then comes back and they know it no one cares the the notion of creating a database of children's fingerprints is a little bit fucked up sure and that's not what they were doing and secondarily it was also fucked up the idea like this is a concern that i think is very legitimate is if you keep that all on file that seems like something someone could hack yeah yeah totally but that concern is also addressed in not storing the fingerprints uh but storing as like numerical identifiers perfect um and so they you know it's it's not like these concerns weren't something that the people who put this system uh into place they didn't think about yeah yeah i i mean it does seem like all

too often many of the complaints that alex brings towards any kind of system are things that you could just address well and instead of being like ultimate flaws in the system they're just like bugs that you can work out the real complaints that he has or the the ones that are based in reality are things that people are aware of and other people are conversing about in reasonable rational tones based in reality kind of ways yeah um the things that are nonsense that he's yelling about are all just things to be appeals to the emotions of the audience in order to bring them closer to that bottleneck that gets them to making a hundred copies of his movie jesus and you got to do it man or else i want you to get the video and i want you to make a copy when

you go to work in the morning and a copy when you go to sleep at night two copies a day two dollars a day and a fifty dollar vcr i want you to get the videos are twenty five ninety five or three or more of any of the nine films they drop down to twenty i want you to do it now it's waking people up we got to save this country do it now please make the call get in the fight or it's over folks get in the fight by reproducing wow videos to give to people as free promotion or it's over that's awful oh man for an initial investment of fifty dollars and just two dollars a day you can make sure that alex jones will be richer than you can imagine can you can you just open your heart this sales pitch is not compelling can you change it to saving america

because then it's gonna work if you don't make this two dollar a day sacrifice click at her tickets soldiers oh my god to your home rip your children away from you take them to a seventy acre high schoolers with submachine guns in gray uniforms and dollocks with guns wandering the streets it's it's chaos oh for just two dollars a day though so alex does talk a little bit about nine eleven stuff during this period but not in any way that like i feel like we're gonna go ahead and cover this now um but one of the things that i find really fascinating is listening to how his tone is so different from the present like when he's asked direct questions like what happened with nine eleven now he'd be like you know what i don't know

there's not a lot of questions yeah in 2003 he's like i know everything i know names he made a movie about it multiple movies he should know about it he should know everything about it yeah it's like i know everything look we got him dead to rights we have all the proof now the president he's like yeah i think i kind of forgot it is it is interesting that he's he's in a place where it's like somehow he exists in a space where we've learned less in the intervening time from when he started yeah we've somehow forgotten all the information about what should be the most important thing for him to understand inside and out your entire career is based off of this thing i just i find myself every now and again remembering that in the present day he doesn't answer direct questions

about it and it gets really funny listening it's one of the things that makes this very tolerable another thing what's that makes this tolerable jordan have we hit the collar that you're excited yes we have okay the fuck down okay grant in minnesota grant you're on the air worldwide speaking of out of control i was recently just surrounded by the military on an unsigned search warrant looking for bombs and explosives i'm raising i was lured away from the court by activists and while on false charges and while i was there i have cyber and tigers on my property while i was there the military surrounded the place what as they were confiscating my tiger cub the military were high-fiving each other and laughing

what this in the newspaper no we need to call the newspaper that's very newsworthy yeah no shit okay are you are you telling me that all that happened is we just missed out on tiger king by 20 years because nobody was listening to alex joneson's show is that what's really going on here this is not joe exotic uh yeah but i was like holy shit you can't get calls like this on regular shows no you cannot you have to have a crazy show because you'll get crazy calls you could not get this call from howard stern and if you did it would be an actor yeah it'd be bullshit you wouldn't trust it there's something like about this that i just couldn't resist getting to the bottom of i was like i've already spent a bit of time preparing this episode this is towards the end of may 29

sure like fuck it starting over i don't care for you to save that tiger cub exactly you've got to save that tiger cub so here there's a caller on alex's show who had a Siberian tiger taken away from the raid that's got to be in some newspaper somewhere right there's a red alert that's gotta be something for me it's like no way i had absolutely no idea where to go with this but i used some clues i was able to find something that looked promising so this caller says that he is in minnesota honestly how many Siberian tiger seizures could there possibly be in minnesota every year i don't know so i found an article in the albert lee tribune from january 2003 about a raid on a house where a female baby tiger was taken quote because the owners did not have a permit

for possessing the wild animal this seems like a winner it seems close yeah it seems close it's sounding right the problem though is that the owner of this tiger is a 17 year old kid who said that his 15 year old sister is the pet's owner i don't know what now i don't know much but i don't believe that this caller is 17 no then i read this little nugget in the tribune article quote pita also emphasized the past record of the child's father who has also lived in the house saying it indicates the family's inability to provide appropriate care for the tiger the father was barred from having a pet by the court in october 2001 as a penalty for cruelty to animals conviction however the child said his father is not living at the residence anymore i'm intentionally

not using these people's names because as i was getting into this i had no idea if they are the people who are on the yeah talking of course of course but it was like how many raids resulting in the confiscation of a baby tiger went down in the first few months of 2003 in minnesota i can't imagine that the number's higher than one and and now we know that this is a family business i found a follow-up article that includes some other bizarre details apparently that whole thing the tiger seizure was set in motion because the child quote had scratches and bite marks and was falling asleep in class when asked what was up he quote told a teacher that he lived with a tiger and it smelled bad police searched the house and found a malnourished 35 pound tiger cub as well as

a bunch of urine and feces very sad poor tiger i was completely obsessed with this story by this point so i had to keep looking around yeah if this was the story of this person who's calling into alex's show i can match the story to the caller it was very exciting yeah yeah i can see i can see it's palpable so i was able to find a list put out by pita of all tiger cub related incidents in the united states and guess what this was not the tiger case that prompted this call to alex's show wow i was able to find grant this caller on the list from pita so that means in the first five months of 2003 there were two tiger cub incidents in minnesota what are the fucking odds to be fair though i do want to make this clear the guy who is keeping the tiger cub at home with his kid the

story we just talked about did buy his tiger from this caller so there is a connection i knew that there had to be some kind of connection yeah there there's you had to know there's a yeah that's just awful so this guy is named grant and he ran a business called tiger zone and he's also a pretty full of shit about how this didn't make any news outlets the reason he's in trouble here is that in march 2003 one of his tigers quote bit a 16 year old girl and grabbed and bit a pregnant woman on the wrist jesus christ yeah so tiger zone was a place where people could come and look at uh exotic animals yes yeah of course there had been reports of people being attacked by his cats in the past but people have been reluctant to press charges and tell this incident

which led to the downfall of tiger zone and a police search of grants home where they found some guns this would not be the end of grant trying to hurt people with tigers in 2005 he was arrested after a woman who was employed cleaning up after some of his tigers was attacked and seriously wounded yeah anyway this guy is lying to alex about the circumstances of his run-in with the police and yes jordan you brought up tiger king after the success of that documentary grants nephew tried to kickstart a documentary about this whole thing but it apparently didn't take off yeah and also in the kickstarter it says this is not just because tiger king happened yeah i did say it sounds like that's exactly what you would say if it was just because tiger king

happened i think that there is probably a very interesting story to what happened with this guy because i did watch the trailer for his documentary and i think that there's probably some experiences of people who are involved uh that are worth hearing about sure like i i don't know if it's this guy's daughter or who the person is but there's someone who's in the in the trailer giving talking very passionately about how hard it was to watch people take away these tigers yeah you know like that she knew and cared about as as friends or pets yeah um and how they were you know treating them very harshly i think i think that's a valuable thing to hear about and you know people i don't know but this guy is not like he wasn't lured to

court by false charges where the military looking for bombs took his tiger cub yeah yeah anyway i would say that the fact that he sold the tiger to this person who was keeping it in their house and the tiger was peeing and shitting in the house uh and recklessly around this child it means that he's not necessarily doing due diligence and vetting who uh is able to adopt these yeah animals yeah and that to me is a red a red flag along with the multiple people who were attacked by his animals man all kinds of shits a red flag i mean just just like hey uh private exotic private exotic animal zoo is a the biggest red flag i can think of i don't know if that's actually the case i mean i i can understand why you think that and i think a lot of times it

is but i don't want to stigmatize people who do actually take care of animals no sure that's awesome yeah but a lot of times in order to make enough money to provide care for some of these animals you may need to like have people will be able to come look at them of course i think that there are people who do that responsibly and uh within the parameters of it's not nuts i agree and i would say that it's probably more than the others i would say there are more people who do it responsibly than irresponsibly at the same time still a red flag to me that's that's one of those industries where it's not i mean and it's not even like i think it's evil or malicious or anything it's just like there should always be somebody there should always be a neutral third party

observer on the ground at all time being like well there should be that's not okay yeah that's what i'm saying yeah that's what it is and there is one of those it's one of those industries those where it's you can't even have like the any self reporting is just not possible there there's there are regulations but it probably needs to be better yeah for reasons of human safety and and the welfare of the animals themselves yeah that what that guy was doing to that fucking tiger and his kid it just is fucking disgusting right and and again just to be totally clear that is different color different although the guy did sell but i'll be well see the animal which is yeah yeah you know that you're implicated a tiny bit for not uh being like if you're fucking selling

a tiger in minnesota you should do a lot of background work on who are you selling this to can they possibly take care of a fucking it's a god damn tiger and tiger yeah are they a person who's going to put the tiger in their basement yeah if so you don't get a tiger yeah surprise yeah yeah so um the alex talks to this guy and he's very excited about this story oh of course he is because he thinks that there's no uh media coverage of it or whatever um they i think he thinks like i got a fresh lead here on some some government uh abuse that's going on breaking news yeah and so like this guy tells his story or his version of it and alex just accepts it unquestioningly and i think like this is kind of bad so so what exactly happened to you sir describe what what

developed uh i i activists were all the girl they have to uh all they have to do is say somebody got scratched and they'll come in and like all that somebody has to do is lie to the police and this girl lied in court five times on the stand so it was a dangerous pcs grabber went and lied in court yes i know i've seen those stories in the press and so what happened the troops hit you and hit you hard so yeah this 16 year old who got attacked by one of his cats um just lied yep yep she lied in court five times and in writing three times so the story was exactly the same every time and that's how you know she's lying well i mean like hey you know uh this is an interesting way to present a story to alex jones um alex should not just accept

immediately oh they're lying about what happened because maybe someone got attacked by a lion yeah i'm sorry a tiger yeah i just i i think that it's unquestioningly accepting this guy's version of the story only serves to use them as a prop to push your the government's out of control and want to take your tigers narrative which is silly yeah and there's a bit of a credibility gap there's a bit of a credit credibility gap yeah i think i think also there's a just an inherent issue with um i know that it's 2003 and alex isn't as you know gross a figure in the public consciousness sure as he is now yes yeah but this guy saw fit to call alex and talk about this story and that that's an indicator yeah that tells you what kind of reaction he's looking for at the very

least yeah or where he would go to where am i gonna get a positive spin on this story because it won't be anybody legitimate yeah gotta get those tigers yeah anyway that was a fun little uh path of trying to figure out like this i had so many walls i ran into trying to sort out what happened here and the issue is like there were too many kernels of information i'm like there's no possible way i can't figure out who this guy is yeah that i just had to keep pushing look at how specific this has to be yeah and there it happened four times that's not possible that's not possible it can't no it can't it's so weird like there's not other there aren't other years where multiple instances of of tiger incident that happened yeah in minnesota look i i know that america

has the most concentrated number of tigers just because of private ownership but not not like it's not like a minnesota thing right like i'm looking over this list and like in two thousand year two thousand this list from pita there were two incidents regarding tigers in natural bridge of virginia but that's because they both happened at the same zoo see there you go that makes sense it does sort of it makes sense it it's so nuts that there's two different separate stories in minnesota i mean granted i guess the fact that he sold it makes them connected stories right i mean you know but that it does make sense if you've got a disreputable tiger zoo operator who is willing to sell cubs you are going to find out you have more than one incident about tigers

in your in your region very soon that is that is probably a truism yeah so here alex complains about how you'll be arrested for pissant stuff like in germany yeah if you don't open your mouth at the dentist your parents will be arrested or something and then a tiger will bite you and then alex says something really fucked up finding and arresting parents in germany in england if they refuse to open their mouths at the dentist they are doing stuff in in ohio in pennsylvania they take five year olds and do genital checks they caught a lesbo ring doing it one area you all heard about that what a what a what a what a what a what yeah what is that caught me a bit off guard oh for to for what purpose to whom and also who are they also like even leaving aside

whatever the reality of the story is why are you articulating it this way yeah why is that the way that doesn't make it oh boo boo so alex has a hour plus interview with a guy named michael haga um and i don't know who this guy is uh he apparently wrote a book that i can't find even by googling the name of the book that's not good i don't know how to spell his last name that's not great haga how do you call that uh so many ways could be anyway yeah i tried a number of different spellings e h i don't know and uh he i tried to figure out just like what the bottom line about him was but i wasn't really that interested so i don't really mind that i didn't figure it out because he's just kind of a guy who is the standard new world order talking points just

kind of someone who's playing a game of boring ping pong with alex there's hitting the ball back and forth yeah um intel i find it fitting that he didn't get enough traction from being on alex's show to penetrate the consciousness to the point where he's even googleable so it makes more sense for him to definitely not even penetrate onto our show true and i think that i probably would ignore his appearance because it's really boring until they end up taking calls oh now you're talking things do not go well uh mr hey guy first started listening to you back around 1992 1993 on the american freedom network uh huh and i listened to you religiously back and i was working in a bank myself uh handling the mutual funds and annuities and other insurance products for the bank and i

took your advice i got out of the market when i was setting the dow jones was setting up 3300 and i bought four hundred and fifteen dollar gold and i'm still waiting for my gold to come back and the market's been 11 six and back and forth bought a few of your books i put them up on my book case they're right beside my copies of the late great planet earth by hell lindsay so you said in that book that you're a little bit premature i guess you were about seven or eight years on the peak of the market i guess uh what i'm hearing you say today mr hagan with all due respect is anybody that reads um alex jones's info wars dot net or info war info wars dot com and stays abreast of the current mainstream publications and stuff i'm not hearing anything new out of you mr hagan

where i'm still waiting for the three five thousand dollar gold and i got it have you been have you been watching gold yeah i've been watching and i've been watching it for the last nine years you know well i haven't recommended it that far back oh yeah you were on american freedom now i've listened to you religiously back then would call into your talk shows well it didn't start didn't they start in 1995 what the me on yeah i i wasn't even back on the air back then oh yeah you were american freedom that mr hagan well i believe that organization started in 95 i'm not saying you're well they changed her name in 95 there used to be something else i forget what it was okay well let me let me just tell you something uh we the devil switch one people said they were going to

plunge the dollar almost four years ago shift to a talking point yep yeah so this caller is not happy with michael hega i like it yeah i like it i am in and he is unflappable no he does not seem to give a shit no uh yeah i listen to your show i know i know the things that you said hey come on now nice try i've been you've been lying to me for nine years i have several dollars worth of gold to prove it yeah um so they they don't let him talk too much more and just sort of bicker about gold a little bit sure um and then they address the question more like once he's gone yeah a little bit of like yeah yeah perhaps maybe i was a little bit uh early on things but i think as a whole if you look at the total thing i you know whatever sure um i was like okay that's fun i like i like that i

want the salty guy to stick around if you're gonna have a have a little conversation well they unfortunately take another call oh all right let's take a call let's talk to john in new york john last caller for michael hega go ahead sir yeah mr jones um the protecting mr hega as you did from the last caller was noble of you but we read his book i'm calling you from the economics department at syracuse university up here in syracuse new york some of my students have read mr hega's book and used it as a reference mr hega needs mr hega needs to go back to read his book mr jones oh now that's a one two punch that they were not expecting no that is so funny another caller that is so funny like fuck you one more call hey we're gonna go last caller for michael

hega fuck you ah well that's gonna be it for uh michael hega i'm sorry calling you from the economics department of syracuse university and michael hega can go fuck himself um so i wanted to play more of this caller but there isn't much of it because it's just it just deteriorates into yelling yeah of course it just yells over him and doesn't allow any points to be made yeah creates a false version of the things that he's saying in order to be like i don't even know what that guy was saying yeah he's nuts yeah that guy was nuts yeah and maybe just maybe alex is still being very uh nice to michael hega in this interview and everything but maybe some of that negative response has something to do with why we don't know who he is that could have something to

do with it yeah maybe the audience not thrilled with the idea this guy being on and alex will take note of that and not have him back on uh as much in the future because i also honestly if i were alex i wouldn't have him on and not because uh just strictly from the negative reaction but like he isn't bringing much else to the table sure you don't get from what alex is saying or anybody else he could have on yeah he's like oh the federal reserve is bad oh my god i can't get a hundred other people to say that totally um so the the benefit of having him on is kind of dwarfed by clearly the negative phone calls and i thought that was pretty fun that's so fun at the end of this episode the 29th just being this like pile on michael hega and a caller had his

fucking tiger taken away so good what fun what a good day yeah what a good day and he doesn't think it is you but it's a great day you can't like you can't prepare for what you're gonna get alex jones in 2003 is like a box of chocolates yeah it's i that is so i i would almost imagine like if i was planning a show where i knew alex was gonna have a gold guy on i would have a giant button with an x on it for if an econ professor called just like a button i could run to press technical difficulties just a thin line just i agree with you but from michael hega's presentation of himself he's not like a super gold guy he's not one of those guys who's like a lot of alex's other got like people who are strictly gold he's not a Chapman no yeah but he is apparently it

had some opinions about gold over the it's unclear yeah yeah they didn't let that one caller speak as peacefully and i think if they had i'd have a better sense or if this guy was google-able at all right right well i imagine from what that guy said is uh he was invested in the dow whenever he was up high and the guy was like it's gonna collapse right you should put it all into gold gold's going to skyrocket up to three thousand dollars an ounce or whatever it is and then you'll be a billionaire and the guy was like uh the dow is at eleven thousand dick hole yeah and gold is at fucking nothing yeah or it's up a little bit but it didn't move nearly as much as yeah yeah that's the sense that i got for sure and that does seem like the kind of thing that people in the right wing space

especially it happens to them a lot yeah yeah like alex and the nigerian princes right wingers and gold scams are always together yep they walk hand in hand oh yeah so uh jordan we've come to the end of this adventure in 2003 and uh some of that stuff was fun but i also think it's it's very valuable to recognize these little glimpses where alex speaks a little bit more about his positions yeah that we kind of got the sense were admirable like his opposition to the death penalty or a preference for drug legalization these things are things that you can agree with i guess in terms of like the end result of them sure but you can't agree with how you get there yeah and because you can't agree with how you get there you actually can't agree on the end result

because for me i think the end result of opposition to death penalty uh uh execution is opposition to it full stop right for alex clearly that is not the case right because we can see that his opposition is based in a distrust of some people who are running the federal government yeah and if those circumstances change then he is now totally fine right with the executions and he's fine with the executions on state level so like there isn't actually agreement he is for all intents and purposes a pro death penalty person yeah just he has some doesn't like bush or clint yeah i mean the the thing that gets me about that though is that it's like because he's so malicious and so uh uh i i suppose fungible in on on just about anything like no matter what it is you agree

with him on he doesn't care about anything other than finding a way to give himself and white men more power so even if you you can't like agree with him on an issue and then come together or even work together or or anything towards that because if he's given any access he's going to take whatever access he's given and funnel it towards the point of white male uh dominance so even you know it's like there's not even an issue that you can talk to him about because his only issue beyond all the takes on on the news of the day is like the end result of all of this should be white men running everything me specifically yeah you know they can even get that like from other the other issues that he ends up covering during this time it's like he's complaining about these click-it-or-ticket

things yeah and it's like well they have these stops and they only they don't they only stop white people yeah yeah why that's your that's the yep sure all right great he was talking about immigration a little bit and like it is concerned about immigration rules like they're gonna you know it's like all of your jobs are gonna be you're you're gonna make less like there's all of it does there's ghost towns in Germany that they're bringing immigrants into to run like they're he even said they're replace it you know it's like Jesus Christ yeah we get it you're a white nationalist all all bottlenecks of his ideology go there or bottlenecks there and everything about action and specific things mm-hmm they can stop any of this is promote my shit yep and then eventually

of course once he starts selling pills there we go yeah cash cash cash the only solution to globalism is supplements yep yep and bad documentaries anyway uh Jordan we'll be back but until then we have a website we do a website it's knowledge fight comm we're also on twitter we are on twitter it's having knowledge of the fight and I go to bed Jordan yep we're also on facebook we are on facebook if you're down in the sky too could please find a local charity or bail fund in your area to help out people do and god's work right we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm dzx clark i'm daryl rundiss no grand children for you andy in kansas you're on the air thanks for holding hello alex i'm a first time caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you