Knowledge Fight - #601: June 16, 2003

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

Today, Dan and Jordan dip back into the past. In this installment, Alex horribly fumbles a story that he could have nailed, gets suspiciously defensive about how he cut his finger over the weekend, and is super condescending toward a guest from Harper's who mysteriously agreed to be on the show. Citations

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George knowledge fight. I need money. Andi and Kansas, Andi and Kansas. Stop it. Andi and Kansas, Andi and Kansas. It's time to pray. Andi and Kansas. You're on the earth. Thanks for holding me. So Alex and Mr. Finculler I'm a huge fan and I love your world. Knowledge Fight. Knowledge Fight. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around to worship with the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed. We are Dan Jordan. Check it in. We are 65 episodes away from episode 666. Start the counter. All right. Let's put it on the board. All right.

65 days till the market. Dan. Yeah. Dan. What's up? What's your bright spot? My bright spot today, Jordan. I think I might have used this as a bright spot in the past, but it bears mentioning again. I guess the George Lucas talk show is back. Oh, yeah. I enjoyed it. Oh, it's back. Yeah. They they went on a hiatus for a bit. All right. They've put out a couple episodes since coming back. Just a delight. Just a delight. Clean fun. Ben Schwartz was on the newest one. Oh, was he? I know Andy Dailey is on it as well, but I have not gotten to that part of you. Oh, I'm excited. It's a four hour long. That's nuts. No, I will watch the Andy Dailey part. I believe a friend, Will Miles, also makes an appearance. Oh, no way. Oh, it's good to see Will.

Yeah. A guy who did some comedy with back in the day here in Chicago before he moved out to work on the Chris Gethard show, I believe. Indeed. He did. He did. So yeah, that that's so that was really nice. I enjoy. I enjoy that being made. Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. Yeah. What about you? I still don't feel comfortable with wato. I need no matter what form you take, whether you're wearing a blue nose or not, I don't feel comfortable with water. I can understand that. So what's your bright spot? My bright spot is what's it called? Squid games. Squid. There's this Korean show on Netflix, and it's it's essentially like Battle Royale and Parasite put together. You know, a bunch of people trapped in the miseries of capitalism, fighting each other

to survive and to get money and food and all that stuff. And the way that's put together is a series of games that murder 500-ish people for the benefit of the rich. Okay. Yeah. That's pretty good. And it's all like children's games, you know, like one, the very first episode, not to spoil anything. It's the it's the whole hook of the fucking show. You go in there. Everybody's playing red light, green light. And if you lose snipers, boom, boom, boom, murdering people left and right. Yeah. Battle Royale, my friend. So this is a this is a fictional show. Yes, it is a fictional show. Okay. Because I don't I have to apologize for this. You thought this was real? Yes. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, metaphorically, about the murdering people like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The metaphor is the opposite direction. Right. The murdering people is the metaphor for us in the real world. Now I can understand why you can handle watching this because it's pointed. And it's a, oh, no, no, I can't. I can't watch it. Yeah. I watched it. I cannot watch the the murder parts. I thought it was like that. Can you fit through the whole show? That one. That one's fun, though. They gotta do. They gotta do the pose. They gotta do a pose until they get smashed into a wall. It's fantastic. That existed. That's amazing. It's the best. And I just had a memory the other day of who wants to marry a millionaire. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't he like a something? Apparently a creep. Yeah. Oh, well,

what a shock. Obviously, I can't but I can. Our culture is bad now, but man, we weren't great than either. We did that. I think what people need to understand is it started bad and it's slowly and then quickly gotten worse. More. Can you fit through the whole less who wants to marry him on two million there? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I want. So Jordan, today we are going to the past because it's a wacky, not a wacky, but it's a Sneaky Snake Wednesday episode. So we're in the past. We're in 2003. All right. Talking about June 16th. All right. A couple of days in between there. That's because our last episode in the past was on a Friday. Now we're on a Monday. Gotcha. I think that this is low-key one of the more maybe educational or illuminating episodes of

Alex's show that I've listened to in a long time. And also, there's some amazing ironies knowing what we know in the future. Oh, of course. That will probably get me labeled a witch. Oh, God, damn it, Dan. But before we get into any of that, Jordan, let's say hello to some new wonks. Oh, that's a great idea. So first, Laura, thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Laura. Next, Gary. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Gary. Gary. It's always good to know whenever the co-host of the dollop donates to our show. Sure. Next, Jessica. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Jessica. Thank you. Next, Alex Jones is only two years older than

Dave Rubin. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Weird reminder of mortality. Yeah. Next, Andrew. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Andrew. And Brian. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much, Brian. Thank you. Now, Jordan, we're going to start here on 2003. All right. June 16th. This first clip I actually misheard the first time I was listening through the episode. Okay. And I got pretty excited because I thought Alex was teasing a guest he was going to have on his show as opposed to a subject he was going to discuss. Okay. And then I got really disappointed when I realized this person's not going to be on the show because I

thought it would have been very interesting. Coming up, we'll be talking about the Dr. Charles Sell, the St. Louis doctor who had exposed government corruption. So they arrested him under Medicaid Medicare fraud. The charge would give him two years in prison if he was convicted by a jury of his peers. But they said that he was insane. The medical doctor was insane, the government said. The judge said. The prosecution said. So they've been drugging him. So Charles Sell was a dentist from St. Louis who was charged with Medicare fraud. Even before he got in this legal hot water, he'd shown signs of severe mental illness with his own doctor ordering him into hospitalization after he revealed that he was concerned that

communists had contaminated the fillings that he was putting into people. Oh, so he was just a regular old bircher during his stay in the hospital. He was medicated to quote control the symptoms of schizophrenia. Sure. He returned to practice, but ended up having more flare ups like when quote he told police a leopard was getting on a city bus and several in which he thought people in his community were out to kill him. That's trouble. Sell got popped on 56 counts of male fraud, six counts of Medicaid fraud, an account of money laundering in 1997 on accusations of quote submitting false claims, including false documents and x-rays to Medicaid and private insurers for dental services. He did not provide immediately. It became an issue for the courts

about whether or not he was competent to stand trial. Right. Initially, he was said to be competent, but I imagine that it probably didn't help his case that it is first bond hearing in front of a federal magistrate quote. Dr. Sell screamed at the magistrate using racial epithets when she tried to continue the hearing. He shouted and spat in her face. Cool. Cool. All right. Good behavior. Yeah. Yeah. Then in April 1998, he was indicted for quote conspiring to murder and the attempted murder of a witness in the fraud case and an FBI agent. Okay. Well, that one you're probably not going to come back from. There was a growing concern about his mental well-being and the danger he could possibly pose if he was left untreated. And in July 1999, a court ordered him to

be given anti-psychotic meds against his will. There's a ruling was delayed depending on other hearing. Right. In August 2000, another court ordered him medicated and the appeal went to the eighth circuit court who decided not to rehear the case on a five four vote. Ultimately, in June 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court would weigh in and rule six to three in the case of Sel versus United States affirming that quote forcibly drugging a defendant solely for trial competence as appropriate only in limited circumstances. This would overturn the previous order for him to be medicated involuntarily and fascinatingly guess what? The Supreme Court ruling actually happened on June 16th, the exact day that this episode we're listening to was being recorded

by Alex where he's covering this subject. No. Very weird. No, I refuse. I refuse to believe you. It's very bizarre. Yeah, that is bizarre. In 2004, he was ruled fit to stand trial and his lawyers tried like hell to get him to agree to a plea deal. All the fraud stuff was one thing, but that conspiracy to murder was not something that was going to be as easily moved past. No. According to the post dispatch article from the time, Sel agreed to plead guilty to a fraud charge, but not the murder conspiracy one. So his lawyers were trying to get him ruled unfit to stand trial again. Yeah, I would definitely. That would be my way to go because that's going to be a little bit more difficult. 100% sir. This dude's not so well. And one of the reasons

that it's taken less seriously, like some of a lot of this conversation, the conspiracy to murder thing is that a lot of the courts believe that that was a manifestation of the same reasons that made him unfit to, like not, it was not necessarily a sincere effort to conspire to murder somebody. No, no, no. It was, yeah. And so when the conversations about whether or not it's appropriate to forcibly medicate him, it was strictly along the conversations of the fraud charges. Right. And that, that's just fascinating. So in the end, he accepted a plea deal where he pled no contest to all the charges and he was sentenced to time served and six months and a halfway house and then three years parole. There are aspects of this story, particularly ones

about he had allegations of mistreatment while he was in prison. These are very important things. And I don't mean to brush them aside at all. But for the time being, this case is a perfect example of what I was talking about back in episode one of our podcast, that I felt that there was an important role that someone who is what Alex pretends to be could play in society. This case is fucking hard because even assuming that cell was guilty of Medicare fraud, which he definitely was, at what point does his individual liberty intersect with the public need to adjudicate this case? Fraud charges are nonviolent crimes. So does the public interest really demand that he be medicated so he can be competent to stand trial for that? If not,

what should you do? He was defrauding people and the public health care system. So there can't be no consequences. But what do you do in that situation? It's a mess. I've got it very easily taken care of. Okay. Truman show him the end. That seems prohibitively expensive. You would think that, but it would solve the problem. So these are the sort of hard questions that don't have clear cut answers, because they really do boil down to where you think the line is between the liberties of individuals and when that encroaches on the responsibilities we all have to each other. Someone like Alex is obviously an extremist on the side of individual liberties. But this kind of case is the territory where you actually have an interesting case study to look at,

where you can say that the state has no right to demand medication. And I'm going to hear you out. And you can say that the state has an obligation to demand medication. And I'll hear that out too. Yeah, both sides of this have, you know, compelling places to come from. Right, right, right. It's honestly just a shame because even in 2003, you can see Alex completely fucking up playing the role of somebody who just isn't to individual liberty. He can't even report the details of this case accurately because he's not confident he can make the argument for this guy if he has to accept all the unsavory aspects of the case. The details of the case get in the way of him being able to even talk about it. Yeah, he said that he was revealing corruption

in the system, right? Well, we'll get to that. It seems like he was more defrauding Medicare. Well, we'll get to what Alex means by that later because it's quite a reveal. Okay, I'm interested. But for now, yeah. Now I'm listening. Also, because it's fun, you know who was there actively trying to fight for Dr. Sel's rights? Why not? How about the ADL? Nope. The ACLU. Oh, I was so close. The dreaded enemy of Alex, the ACLU. They filed a friend of the court brief on behalf of Sel, seeking to urge the court to reverse the decision to medicate him against his will. So weird that they would do that, considering how Alex thinks they're evil. They're evil. And they hate people having rights. They work with the Satan. Totally. Yeah. Another thing really

quick. This is basically nothing to do with the legal questions that the case brings up. But I have a hunch that Charles Sel also happens to be a racist asshole. It's easy to attribute his use of slurs in court as possibly like a manifestation of a mental break. But that becomes harder to argue when you realize that he was also prior to this, a member of the Council of Conservative Citizens. There we go. That CCC is a hyper right wing white nationalist organization that's super against what they call, quote, mixing of the races. Make no mistake about it. If you're messing around with the Council of Conservative Citizens, it's not because you're politically conservative. It's because you're a straight up racist. Want to look at their publication. The Citizens Informer

should clear up any concerns you may have if you think that I'm being unfair. If you're a member of the organization, you're a piece of shit. Dylan Roof. Did they write that in the Conservative Informer? I didn't. Oh, that was an editorial. Okay. That was you. Okay. Sorry. I just wanted to double check that Dylan Roof, the guy who murdered nine black people because they were black at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston specifically mentions the Council of Conservative Citizens website as being the thing that started him down his path to white nationalism in his manifesto. Hooray. So anyway, fuck this, Charles Salga. He's clearly a racist pile of shit, but the point does still stand in his case that these issues that involve

involuntary medicating, like that conversation is justified and it's something that's worth having that conversation. And it's just a shame that Alex is such a shithead that he can't be the side of that conversation that he should be. Someone who pretends to have the political beliefs that he does, you know, that's someone who has a voice in this. Oh no, totally. It is kind of that question of like, and I could even, I could absolutely hear at the argument of somebody being like, no, this is a power that a government could use and could use well, but not ours. Our government cannot use it well. They can only abuse it. So that's a that's a fair argument to have. The other argument is that, hey, man, people are doing their fucking best. This guy is out of

control. Maybe we don't have to like turn it into a whole thing. Yeah, I can see definitely a very difficult conversation to be had about like, well, if you allow medicating just for the sake of him being able to stand trial against his will, the medicating in the case of this, like Medicare fraud case, what is the line that it is appropriate? Where do you set the line of who can you forcibly Medicaid? What type of behavior is deemed like deserving of that as a solution? Right. And what's the documentation required for that behavior? Because yeah, it's incredibly fraud. Oh, there's so many places to abuse. And there's so many places to fuck up. Yeah. At the same time, I know that sometimes people do need medication and they are resistant

to it. Inarguable. Certainly, it's come up in our lives. No, yeah. And I don't know. I don't know. It's a really, really interesting question. Yeah. Yeah. And Alex can't handle it. Alex should be nowhere near it. No. But it's that it's that image of what Alex pretends to be. I know. But to a certain extent, I should be nowhere near that question. No, no. And I don't that's that's I think why I don't think either of us have like this is what the state must do. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. We're bad at it. No, we're bad at this. Yeah. All I can do is tell you it's tough. It's a tough question. Hey, I'm glad I don't have to decide. So Alex, I thought he was going to have that guy on as a guest. I thought that would be amazing.

That would have been amazing. But he doesn't. He just talks about it. That's disappointing. But Alex does have a couple of guests. One guy named John Stat Miller, okay, who does a radio show on Alex's network, I guess on some short wave shit. But he has another guest that's a little bit more legit. Then in the second hour, I've got Mr. Charlotte joining us from Harper's magazine to talk about the brotherhood, this bizarre so called Christian cult that loves and Nietzsche and Hitler and believes that a world government must be constituted, because that's how Jesus wants it to be. And well, the CIA is involved and they control a lot of the big neo con Christian organizations and it's an obvious government front from all the evidence.

So I guess Alex has a bizarrely mainstream guest on this episode in the form of Harper's writer, Jeff Charlotte. I'm very confused. Yeah. So Charlotte was the executive producer of the 2019 Netflix series, The Family, which is actually what this 2003 article in Harper's was about. Right, right, right. Alex, I don't know if he's read this article because he thinks it's called the brotherhood, which it's not called in the article. But I suspect that his confusion is because members are referred to as brothers in the first line of the text. Right, right. This is a messed up religious extremist group, but it's also not like they're super fringe, which is part of the troubling part. No, they're extremely powerful. They put on the National

Prayer Breakfast every year where they are extremely powerful and horrendously evil presidents show up and give speeches. Yeah, Charlotte would go on to write a book about the group in 2008, largely about how this group of extreme fundamentalist Christians are deeply entrenched in conservative politics, which Alex would probably agree with and be all for in 2021. He's talking to this guy from Harper's about how it's evil. Look at all these evil, Illuminati people who 20 years from now I will say should be our God Kings. Of course. It's a mess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. I think you might be sensing a little bit of the irony that I'm talking about. So awful. I hate the world. Before Alex gets into any of the real meat of the issues today,

he's got to give some plugs for his websites and Mike down for this because I think I think one of these might stick out to you. Okay. The websites are info wars dot com info wars dot net Jones report dot com virgin Utah dot com and now prison planet dot com. And by the way, prison planet dot com has just been redesigned by Paul Joseph Watson. It looks great. A lot of wonderful information. Did you know that he had prison planet dot com? No, that's not the one that stood out. No, virgin Utah. Yeah, what's virgin Utah. So apparently in 2003, Alex was running a website promoting a town in Utah called Virgin, which was quote, a model community for small towns and big cities alike. The Virgin City Council and citizenry have made Virgin a friendly

place to live for those who support the Constitution and Bill of Rights. He started a railroad town. Are they paid in Jones box? So this is fascinating. In the present day, like in the last few years, Alex has pretty regularly been talking about how his extremist right wing buddies need to get together and start their own self-ruled communities. But he tried it 20 years ago. He tried it. Wow. Wow. At least they had more specifics 20 years ago. Wow. I thought I thought it was completely different. It's it's fun. The internet just rediscovered that more mantines half fuck. They just go in and then don't move. Like it's a it's fun that they rediscovered

Virgin Utah.com in 2003. Was that where they learned? I thought Virgin Utah might have been like a homesteading kind of like Virgin land. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. This is just wild. So at the time that city had a population of about 400 and a 2010 census put the city at 91.8 percent white. The entire reason that Alex is promoting this city is the place for Liberty Lovers is because in 2000, they passed an ordinance that every citizen had to own a gun. Yes. So on their website, they discuss how this ordinance was based on a similar one from Kennesaw County, Georgia, although they did misspell Kennesaw. Wow, it's got two ends.

There are unsupported claims about an 80 percent drop in quote every category of crime in the 15 years since Kennesaw passed the ordinance. Also, I love this part quote. One important point for any county or city thinking about passing this ordinance, Kennesaw County saw a population explosion from under 5000 citizens to over 20,000 today. That's over eight times the growth that the average community sees. It seems good news travels fast. Americans want safe communities where they can raise their children and the right to protect their families. This is actually true, the population growth, but it's not really possible to attribute this gun ordinance for that growth and population. Kennesaw was a growing community for decades, experiencing a 167.2

percent growth between 1950 and 1960 and then a 135.4 percent growth between 1960 and 1970. The gun ordinance was passed in 1982 and the population actually only grew 75.4 percent between 1980 and 1990 for picking up to a 142.6 percent growth rate in the next decade. If anything, you could argue that based on the growth rate the city seems to be normally experiencing. That was a slump period for the town. Do you want to go move to the place where you have to own a gun? No, I don't want to own a gun. Yeah, one of the primary drivers of this population growth that people, including the Kennesaw City government's own website, attribute for the growth and population is that they're located right next to Kennesaw State

University, which was founded in 1963. Well, there is that. They add, quote, the rapid growth of Kennesaw's population is also spurred by our favorable location with respect to transportation, including I-75 in US Highway 41. Sure, yeah. Or maybe it's this meaningless gun ordinance that I'm certain is not enforced. Can you? Yeah, you know it's great about Virgin Utah is they, after they passed the gun ordinance, they were like, we saw an 80 percent drop in crime. What do we do with that last 20 percent? Right? Next day, every year, one day, all crime is legal. Everybody has a gun and all crime is legal for 24 hours. Zero crime. Here's how you get rid of that 20 percent. Everyone has to own a tank. That's a mistake.

That's prohibitively expensive. Only four or five people are going to live there after that. This is where public subsidies come in. Okay. Well, I'm subsidizing a tank. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, I guess like, you know, having a college there and, you know, good situativeness between two large highways, you know, that could be, but maybe it's this dumb ordinance. I was going to go with the explosion of public highways that happened just about everywhere in the fifties and sixties, leading to a massive amount of travel and, and combined with people who would be brought to the area by the college. Totally. Um, but like, I guess one way you could tell is that like, I guess Virgin Utah should have a massive explosion of population too, right?

Yeah. I mean, obviously, it's the gun ordinance. 20 years ago, 20 years ago, their population is 650 now. 650? Yeah. That's still too large. Yeah. Does Alex visit them? I don't think so. I think he's forgotten entirely about the Virgin Utah. He has a second family in Utah. Also, just because it's fucking hilarious, let me read to you the exemption section of the Kennesaw Gun Law, which was copied for Virgin Utah. Anyone quote, exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer from physical or mental disability, which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from this effect to this section are those heads of households who are poppers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining

firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine or persons convicted of a felony. Um, I don't want to own a gun. Well, nothing we can do here. That's a loophole. There you go. That's a loophole in the law. I don't want to. I prefer no. Yeah. Well, we can't make you move. Yeah. This is all just for show and to excite people like Alex. That's all this is an article in the New York Times quoted their mayor is saying that they've never prosecuted someone for not owning a gun and that the law was essentially unenforceable. Yeah. Obviously. If I were Paul Joseph Watson, I might see something like that and think it was a very extreme and childish, childish case of virtue signaling. I mean, there's no way that I wouldn't. Like if you pass that

law in Chicago, I would walk around city hall just being like fucking do it, man. I don't own a gun. Arrest me. Do it. Take me to trial. Please tell me that the Supreme court is going to side with you have to buy a gun by law. Doesn't Alex think that that's much more of an encroachment? It's a massive encroachment on your liveries because you have to pay for the gun. It's a positive responsibility. Exactly. It's a mess. No, that's not so. So on this episode, you know, we just had the weekend. Yeah, Alex has come back into studio and there may be some rumors floating around about the weekend. Okay, Alex needs to get ahead of these rumors. Okay, what did he do? I'll get into some of that news in a minute, but I'm going to go ahead and talk

about this on air. I'm going to talk about it once because I told one or two people this weekend and already it was metastasizing into rumors. I was out with a friend on their boat this weekend on the Lake Travis. And on Saturday, Saturday night, we were out there fishing. We were going back to the dock and we came across a pontoon boat that was dead in the water. And there were about four foot waves. There had been some storms earlier in the day and we couldn't tie up alongside of it. The pontoon was in the middle of the lake and I jumped in to swim over and try to fix their boat. No good deed goes unpunished. And of course, the boat was turned off. It was dead in the water. I started climbing up on the side of the pontoon boat that has aluminum siding on it. And I slipped

once I got up on the boat. I slipped. My hand caught in between the railing and it basically cut my finger off. So I had a really enjoyable weekend and it feels real good because I'm not about to take painkillers and then pair my judgment. And so as I sit here now, they did a good job basically reattaching my finger. The best description of it, you ever seen Terminator 2 where Swartz and Eggers, you know, as the robot, the android, and he cuts his flesh off and pulls the flesh off his arm and there's the skeleton under it. Well, that's basically what happened. Yeesh. So I guess he cut his hand on a boat. Oh, that sucks. Also his policy on like changing his mental state certainly has been. No, he won't even take aspirin. I feel like that policy is

loosened. How do you think so? Everything about how he behaves. Okay, well, there is that. His body is a temple, dad. This and a temple needs Coke. I have two possibilities. What's that? One is he's telling the truth. Possible. Second, this is suspicious. It's a little bit exaggerated, perhaps. Well, I mean, the part of it that I just don't understand is like, what are you doing? Why are you wasting time talking? Well, he doesn't want this to turn into a rumor. Who cares? No, no, no. It's a rumor that he could have gained a finger, lost a finger. What's the rumor about? I don't know. Is it that he was, it's just that he was drunk, right? Like, the rumor has to be Alex was so drunk he caught his own fucking finger off. It's got to be something

like that that he's trying to get ahead of. That has to be the rumor. Yeah, because otherwise, is it just like it happens? Yeah, no, that's a terrible accident. I'm sorry that someone would try and help somebody on a boat. Yeah, I don't think I don't know. It's either it's either an indication of Alex trying to muddy the waters on something or an indication of how like knee jerk suspicious his audience is that if he has a bandage on, it's like what is that where they put the computer chip? He's not the real Alex. Is that where you're controlled? They put they put an Illuminati finger on you and now you have to do what it says like the dead hand of Joseph. I'm going to spend five minutes on my show trying to do damage control on this rumor

that I can't imagine anyone cares about. So yeah, also this, this also made me a little suspicious. He has a couple more details about the story. Of course he does. And we drove back in the 10 minutes back into the dock and but and then that was fun. There was a big party going on at the dock. You know, they have like a big restaurant and bands out there at night and I come pulling in. There's a no wake zone like a half mile out from the harbor and we come driving in and and my friend Kevin was driving about, I don't know, 15 miles an hour in the wake zone, which it wasn't throwing much of a wake. We had all these people mad at us yelling

and they all ran up to the dock as we pulled up and there's blood all over the place. I just they were all yelling and cussing at me drunk, I guess, and I just held my hand up and said, hey, almost cut my finger off and they all felt pretty stupid. But you know, they got the buoys out front. You're not supposed to speed into the harbor, but I was in no mood. And I rarely slip up, but I did. I apologize to those. I had some choice words for them. Oh, you said the end word. I'm just glad I got my finger. My whole family's glad I didn't cut a finger off. Something happened. Yeah, that's the end word. I mean, to be a fly on the wall. I'm curious. I had some choice words, some choice words

that there were rumors about. Yeah, I think we know what those words are. I nobody's telling rumors about Alex Jones told me to fuck off. Can you believe it? Can you believe that Alex Jones would tell me to fuck off? Maybe that would be dangerous for his brand at this time possible possible. You know, he's not. He's not the same complete lunatic that he is today and just like somebody who can feed off any kind of positive or negative attention. True. Like this is still a point when like, I mean, if he comes off as like like an onion lunatic, yeah, if he comes off as him, yeah, that could hurt. That could hurt his entire ability to to sell himself as a, I hate the left and the right. True. I'm just a normal, very sensible person

who has questions. I will say this to you. I cannot prove it and you probably have a much more reasonable explanation, but deep in my guts, I'm putting money on a racial slur. That's what I'm doing. I mean, it's abundantly possible or he could have actually just been like wasted or something. There's something that happened at that dock. Yeah. That I would like to do. I would like to dedicate the rest of my life to a documentary about what happened. Recreating each individual moment. We'll make small models. We'll have this is where Alex Jones purports to have said he was, but we have witnesses putting him at this scene. I'm going to do a fucking season of cereal.

Many people are wondering what are the rumors about? So once Alex's career is over and I inevitably do my, you know, documentary about, you know, I go and find him. Right. Right. My first question. What happened on that dock? What happened on that dock? I need to know. Sir, what happened on that dock that day? Where were you on the night of June 17th or 15th or whatever? So now we get into like the actual meat of like some of the topics that are going to be discussed. Sure. Alex has John Stapmiller on and he is on to talk primarily about the Charles Selle case. Yes. Which again is that dentist we talked about at the beginning. Right. And here is where that corruption part comes into play. Get ready for your mind to be blown. I'm waiting.

Tell us all about it, John. Well, it's, it's interesting, Alex. This is the gentleman that was given notice. He was in the army at the time in the reserves. They wanted him to come down to Waco to do the forensic work for dentures, so on and so forth, teeth, you know, to identify bodies. Now this is before the branch divisions decided to kill themselves, burn themselves, according to the mainstream press and all the findings of government panels that the Davidians actually committed suicide. But then their own declassified Delta Force documents show they went and killed them. Exactly. So here's this dentist. He's in the army reserve. They called him up. The FBI called him down to do this forensic work.

Something happens. He claims that he had the footage, had his disposal footage of the FBI actually burning Waco down. I bet you didn't see that coming. This is actually a Waco cover-up story. I did not see Waco factoring into this at all. I was a little surprised myself. I'm shocked. So a couple quick points on this here. The Waco standoff occurred in 1993, and Charles Sell was first hospitalized after insisting communists had contaminated his fillings in 1982. He was again hospitalized around 1984. So his problems related to delusions, long predate, any alleged involvement. He hadn't anything related to Waco. I can find no credible source that backs up the claim that Sell was called in to do forensic dentistry at Waco,

nor that he was called in before the standoff even occurred. These are claims you can find repeated in message boards and dicey blogs, but there's nothing that I can find that makes me feel confident about it. And it seems kind of unrealistic since around that time he was supposed to be a dentist in St. Louis. I don't understand why he would be the person they would bring in. It seems strange to me. Widely coincidental. Should that be the case? I mean, it's the writing on that. The writing on reality needs to be taken up a notch if that's the case. Yeah. It's like we've run out of characters in reality. Like, no, no, no, we can make more. Yeah. This seems really bizarre to me because it seems like Alex and John are putting a hat

on a hat here. They have an issue that they can make a compelling case on, whether or not the state has the authority to forcibly medicate someone arrested for a nonviolent crime, but instead of really just sticking to the issue where there's a chance of making a decent point, these dum-dums have to spin out and turn everything into a grand conspiracy that works into their larger worldview. The actual relevant issue is either too boring or too difficult for these people to talk about, so instead they just jangle keys. Like, what if we fight to get him to not have to take his meds? Then he'll finally break the whole Waco case wide open. We don't need to fight for him to not be forcibly medicated because that's an infringing of his rights,

but I guess if he's medicated, then the globalists have succeeded in their cover-up. Like, this is nonsense. That's insane. Yeah. That's, I mean, that is, that is a little bit like a cub reporter comes up and he's like, I've got this incredible story. This guy, it's going to be a watershed moment. We've got to figure this out. This is a wedge, wedge moment for all of us. And Alex is like, nah, nah, nah, nah, that's boring as shit. I'm going to punch it up. He was at Waco. Yeah. I just like, I don't know. It made me feel like I gave Alex too much credit at the beginning of the episode when this case got brought up because I felt like this is an actual place where he could make an argument that I could engage with his principles and his politics on,

but instead it's all just kind of, it's just a trick. Alex got a belt high 88 mile an hour fastball and he still swung three times at the same pitch and fell to his balls. Yeah. It's pretty unfortunate. It just goes to show how even five years in, I still give him too much credit sometimes. Too much credit. You are somehow a very hopeful person. Well, I like to learn. So anyway, John Statmiller has a little bit of a different version of this interaction that Charles Sale had with the judge. All right. But here's the government. This guy supposedly, if found guilty of fraud for Medicare and Medicaid would only spend two years in jail. He has not seen the inside of a courtroom except for a judge. And he basically called the judge

out and he said, look, he said, this is phony. These are false charges. I don't trust you. And so the story goes, the judge remanded him into the care of the mental health people. And this man has not seen the light of day for six years. You'll notice that John Statmiller leaves out a few details about sales behavior in court like the racial slurs and spitting in the judge's face. Well, sure. They also conveniently forget about the prior hospitalizations, the long history of delusions and everything else that gives this case its context. And there's a very clear reason why they're doing that. They aren't really interested in this case for whether or not the state has the right to forcibly Medicaid people, but they want the credibility that comes with

pretending to have that conversation. They want to just present Sale as a political prisoner who's being held and forcibly drugged because he needs to be silenced about Waco. That's their angle on this story. The pretense of concern about Sale's rights. That's just window dressing. The actual people concerned with the issues Alex pretends to be concerned about are folks like the lawyers at the ACLU because they were dealing with reality as opposed to this nonsense. Yeah. Yeah. What a piece of shit. Yeah, it kind of sucks. It really does. It is. It's so like, man, you had a moment where you could have done something good. Yeah. But your enemies were too busy actually working on it while you distracted your audience. Yeah, for no reason. For no reason. Now, it doesn't even get

you more attention to say that he's a way. It solidifies the conspiracy worldview. Sure. Sure. That's true. The audience is mine. Yeah. And it uses this. This doctor as a prop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's pretty gross. Yeah. No, as you as usual, people are things. Yeah. So next Stap Miller has recorded a full segment from Dateline, a Stone Philip segment. He just recorded it on like a VHS tape. I don't know what he recorded it on based on the 2003 technology, but they end up playing a full seven minute piece from Dateline. That is bananas, which I think is not okay. I was about to jump on that. I was like, that can't be okay. I understand that like there's some broad interpretations of fair use. Sure. But they don't interrupt it at all. They

play a full seven minute section. It's a I don't know that might be a little too much. So yeah, they play this and then here's a little bit of commentary. Regardless of whether you think the government has secretly acted to keep him off the street or what you make of Dr. Sell's guilt or innocence for a man who's already lost nearly six years of his life, his home and his freedom, you can see why it's enough to make someone like Dr. Sell believe in conspiracies. I may spend the rest of my life probably right here in Springfield. You know, this thing, John, this whole story, John, incredible, isn't it? It's hidden in plain view. They're obviously conspiring. No, it's not his treat. He was involved in the wake of his on Dateline. That's admitted. The guy goes down

there says the government's involved. He's in the army. He's hired to whitewash this. They then come and grab him and say Medicaid Medicare from when he started speaking out to spend the St. Louis papers. They grab him. He tells the judge this court's a fraud. These charges are a fraud. It's about Waco. They go, Oh, you're crazy. That's not what I would have gotten from the Dateline piece. I think the Dateline piece is pretty well done. Yeah, like because it does wrestle with those issues of forcible medication and even some of the claims of mistreatment in the when he was incarcerated. Yeah, like there's it comes at it from a number of angles. Like I don't, you know, obviously I don't think I don't think any news programs perfect, but I think they did a fairly

decent job based on my understanding of the details. Well, there you go. You know, it is, it is fun whenever the globalists hide something for 10 or 11 million viewers on primetime. Yeah, they hide it in plain sight directly into the faces and eyes and ears of five to 10 million people in prime time. Very sneaky. Yeah, it's terrifying how they do that. Yeah. So I don't think that John Stab Miller brings a whole lot to this conversation. Just a lot of like he's going to be in prison forever, which can chalk that up to the great predictions that Alex and his his guest to make. Yeah, because he was released pretty soon after this very shortly after the Supreme Court ruled this day. If they had done this episode the next day on Alex's show, it would have

been settled. It would have had to be completely different show. Well, now that we know what the government says, we can do a show. This show would be stale the next day. It is stale. Yeah. Yeah. So John Stab Miller, it seems like one of his primary roles is kind of like whitewashing stories that might be uncomfortable for folks in the extreme right. Gotcha. There was one case down in Georgia where three guys spent years in prison with admitted on the stand, BATF planted evidence in a supposed bomb case. They bury pipe bombs on your land, folks. They bury the pipe, pipe bombs. The BATF informant gets up on the stand, admits it, but the jury still convicts and the jury polled later said, well, why did you convict? They said,

well, the government must have had something on them. They must have been guilty of something. Yeah. You have, there's this mindless, well, if they say it, I mean, so what have they planned evidence? They, the government's good. They must have done it to get the bad guys. We'll take these sitcoms and dramas, you know, like the agency where they, where they frame people, but they're doing it because they're bad guys and tortures good and framings good. You know, they got to play dirty to protect us, John. Yeah. I do think that those shows send a bad message, perhaps, but I also don't think that it has a bearing on this one. Well, I don't think that you can say, um, you know, here's a real life thing. Uh, it's, and to build my case, I'd like

to propose a TV show, a procedural drama show. I do, I do not like that Alex was ahead of me on Copaganda. I don't like it. I don't like that I was behind on figuring out that all TV gives us an excuse to think that cops are actually doing their jobs. Sure. Yeah. So I think that they're also, uh, John and Alex, they're misrepresenting and misreporting some details here. So this case was about three members of the Georgia Republic militia. There it is. Arrested in 1996 and charged with conspiring to build pipe bombs. These guys were worried about the need to prepare for a war against the U S government, who they thought were going to use UN troops against the public, much like Alex does and did. Yeah. An informant did alert the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and

firearms about some of the militia's activities and recorded some of their meetings, but that's not the same thing as demonstrating that the government set these people up or any of that nonsense that stab Miller is going on. No, that's just an informant. Also, if you go and read the articles about this case, you get quite a picture from the Associated Press, quote, neighbor Georgine Fesperman said she's seen a pickup truck full of men with shaved heads carrying rifles and dressed in camouflage and black berets driving to McCranny property. Something's going on back there. She said there's always gunfire back there. They've got vicious dogs back there. You can hear them. The article goes on, quote, an informant told agents of the

bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms on April 5th that he'd attended a meeting with McCranny, star and others at which McCranny talked about blowing up a bomb on his property and said he had enough chemicals to make 40 bombs, according to the affidavit. McCranny is not the government informant. That's one of the men who was arrested and Alex and John Statmiller turning into a martyr here. This is all nonsense. It's all just part of the what I would call the lone wolf social contract that Alex engages in. These things happen, people get caught, and we will do our best to make sure that these are presented as fake in order to make it easier for the next person not to get caught. Exactly. That kind of feels like the game that they're playing because it's not realistic.

The details of this case, the way they're talking about it is just like unbelievable. It does seem like the point is for Alex and his ilk and the Tucker Carlson's of the world to provide cover for the militias to refine and hone their methods in order to eventually succeed. It does feel like that. What bananas is that unfortunately they're providing a smokescreen for the dumbest, most cowardly people on the planet who have yet to refine a single method. Period. We just keep finding bombs everywhere that are poorly constructed. It's very common. Yeah. So we get to Alex's next guest. Statmiller goes bye bye. And we get Jeff Charlotte, the guy from the Harper's magazine. Amazing. It is. Alex is not famous at this point

in time. Ah, he's notable maybe. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. He could get, he could get someone from Harper's. He could get someone from Harper's. Yeah. Weird. Couple of weeks ago, I read a grill on his network story and of course it all came out of a story out of Harper's, a highly respected magazine. Jeffrey Charlotte, who's a religious writer, writes on religious organizations, wrote an amazing story about the brotherhood. And in the article, and the articles, they talk about how Hitler was good and Mao was good and they liked Nietzsche and all of this and the CIA's involved and they got all these so-called Christian conservatives involved and all these congressmen. And I posted, you know, my comment that it sounds like Satanism to me and Jeffrey was

emailing me back saying, well, no, you know, they're just weird or whatever. They believe what you do. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, walks like a duck. It's just like a government cult if you ask me. But joining us, he is Jeffrey Charlotte. He spent months in this organization. We're really honored to have him on the show. Jeffrey, good to have you on with us. Hi, Alex. Good to be on the show. So that point that he was making at the beginning of his Alex's intro there, it's a little complicated, but it's not so much that the people featured in Charlotte's article are saying that Hitler was good. It's more that they use Hitler in his relationship with the Nazi leadership as an example of what they think is a good form of government. Right. Hitler in his top command

had a complete unity of purpose and there was a steadfast devotion to following Hitler. And this is commented on in the article as a powerful form of covenant. Another example that's used is the mafia. They're basically describing being super into dictators. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. The leader of the family, Doug Koh, explains- We like a good hierarchy. Yeah. The leader, Doug Koh, explains, quote, a covenant like the mafia, look at the strength of their bonds. See, for them, it's honor. For us, it's Jesus. The article goes on, quote, co-listed other men who had changed the world through the strength of the covenants they had forged with their brothers. Look, quote, look at Hitler, he said. Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Bin Laden. The family, of course, possessed a weapon

those leaders lacked. The total Jesus of a brotherhood in Christ. So that's whenever Hitler comes up in the article. It's basically talking about it in this context, which is still fucked up, but it's not what Alex, it's not the way Alex is understanding it or re-presenting it to the audience. It is not at all surprising to me that these people love what is essentially the same thing as multi-level marketing, but in a government. Like, it's the same shit, you know. It's just the same fucking shit. Yeah, it may be like a little bit more interest in power than just strictly money. Yeah. Yep. Oh boy. It's awful. Yep. This interview, I was very fascinated to see where it would go though, because sure, knowing what we know now, what's a reasonable person

going to say to Alex? They don't call themselves Christians know it's all about Jesus and Jesus wants a secret world government with a secret brotherhood running it. They call it the family. All these different names, very shadowy. They've got a house in DC where we're on the radio right now where a seven to eight congressman live, Ash Cross connected to it. A lot of big Christian leaders are connected to it. So some of this stuff that Alex is saying is fairly accurate, but I want to talk about a certain irony here, and that is that Alex is having this hypercritical coverage of the family back in 2003. But the reality is that he might actually be broke right now if it wasn't for them. As we know, Alex has said on air a bunch of his finances were looking

shaky in the past few months. And this year, he would have been deep in the red if it weren't for Mike Lindell and his pillow money. Well, what if I were to tell you that the family radicalized Mike Lindell? You're staring at me. No, no, no, no, no. That's what I would tell you. I would tell you no to your face, sir. Yeah, because I don't like witches. Jonathan Larson recently wrote a piece in salon that traces Michael Lindell's conversion to fundamentalist Christianity and hard right politics to his attendance at the 2016 National Prayer Breakfast. My fucking god. That event is not just a breakfast. It's actually a four day affair full of small group meetings that are probably familiar to anyone who's gone to an evangelical church,

but also mix in that MLM. Hey, let's not forget Obama was there. I'd recommend this article, but the short version is that Lindell went. He ended up in one of these small rooms with someone praying and he experienced a prophecy that he was going to change the course of the country. Well, he was in this prayer room with Ben Carson, who's a big member of the group, and they got to talking politics. An excerpt from Lindell's book that is featured in that salon article, quote, the dozen people in the room gathered in a circle and began talking about the critical importance of the 2016 election. We agreed it was going to be a real spiritual turning point for the country. One path could lead us toward national renewal. The other could

lead us down a dark path from which there may be no return, a path that had begun with the removal of God from the public square. And I was like, we have got to go down that dark path because once they removed God, I decided it was time to destroy everything else. The religious group had successfully intertwined their religious vision and their political ambitions into Mike Lindell's head, and we all know where that's gone. Lindell supported Ben Carson and then Ben Carson got him into Trump after Carson dropped out of the race. Anyway, it's a tangled and twisted web, but the family was deeply involved in not only supporting Trump's candidacy, but with directly in scamming the shit out of Mike Lindell, which had a trickle down effect of getting

Alex out of financial hot water. It's just so weird. I just that's what I'm saying. It's just a fucking multi-level marketing scam everywhere you go. It's fucking bullshit. Alex in 2003 talking about this article could possibly known. No way would he have been like, I better not piss off the family. They're going to save me in 20 years. Unfucking real. And he believes all the same shit the family does now too. So fucking God damn it. And almost certainly did unknowingly at this point too. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 100 or like, um, not maybe not unknowingly, but unprocessed. I mean, actually, I would say based on what we've learned from there, they're like they appreciated Hitler's hierarchy, not Hitler. Alex appreciates Hitler more than the family. He's a stuff. He's

just a total bad. Jesus Christ. Yeah. When I hear like some of the stuff about the the beliefs in in the way organization should be. It sounds a lot like Steve Pachanik. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think I think that he has the same sort of relationship with power. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, Charlotte gets to talking about the founder of the group of the family. And man, does this dude sound like Alex? Please break it down for us. What the brotherhood is, or the the family as they call it, how they operate, how it was founded and all these shadowy connections. Okay, the family, the family started in 1935 and Washington state. And it started as a union Boston group, small scale Norwegian immigrant named Abraham Brady, whose biggest fear was communism. He was a minister,

but he's the main thing he thought that God was calling him to fight communism is giving him a special commission. And everyone else he thought Christianity had always ministered to the the down and out the poor and the weak. And he said, Well, what about the up and out the powerful and strong? And he thought that's what Christ wanted him to do was to go out and ministering. So he built that up. There's a lot of similarities with Alex there. Having read the Bible, he assumed Jesus Christ wanted him to make the rich people happier and bust unions. Having read the Bible, the preacher was like somebody has got to help these rich people get more money opposition to unions. A rabid anti communism betcha a belief that God is calling him to fight communism personally

probably had visions when he was kid. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you can even get that like ministering to powerful people. Oh, yeah. And Alex is obsession with pretending that world leaders listen to his show. Like there's so much of this that is just like, this is you. This is totally you. That's you. Alex, you're talking to somebody who's like, you're talking to somebody who is analogous to the person 40 years from then who's going to write an article on you. You're talking to your interviewer in the future. It's bananas. Yeah. It was it was a bizarre fun house mirror. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that I think is really unfortunate about this interview is that Alex, he has this, you know, his narcissism. It manifests in a lot of ways. And

one of them is that he has to know more than the people he's interviewing always because he does. And so he basically just takes the things that Charlotte has covered and experienced and researched and Alex just uses it to make his own conclusions. Sure. Sure. Which isn't fair. No, it's annoying. Now, it's obvious from from your writings and then what I've dug up since I read your stories about this and you were inside the group, of course, for a month and then investigated it for months before and after, that it's just an envelope, an envelope, a way for them to use Christians as a cover from the evidence. I see they've done this in countless other organizations to put this, oh, this Christian mantle on covert activities and legitimize

dictators and mass murders. I mean, you get into how they sit around at these dinner tables and talk about how Hitler was good. And well, I can clarify that they do they do admire what they call a Hitler model. That does not mean that they admire Hitler's policies, although they're unclear that there's not much of a distinction. They are not. But they do say Hitler, they say, look, here's what this guy, he worked with a group of five of other, you know, brothers, friends, and look what he accomplished. Imagine if we could put that model to work for Christ. See, Alex keeps only going back to the point of like, they say Hitler's good to the point where Jeff Charlotte has to be like, I have to clarify this because I don't think it's fair the way

you're characterizing it. Now, I understand and I respect his point. But at the same time, fuck off, they love Hitler. Shut up. How dare you just because you can't prove they love Hitler, they fucking love Hitler and you fucking know it. I think you can be fine saying something like that as a commentator, but someone who's presenting themselves as a serious reporter who backs up everything that he says with facts and research. Yeah, I think that I think that he has a greater responsibility to be clear on his point. Totally understand. And it would behoove Alex to make a differentiation between the two. And I appreciate that that Charlotte seems like insistent on like not being misrepresented right to a degree. Right. What I would like here, let me let me throw this

at him. Okay, let's go back in time. Let me throw this at you. All right. I can only prove through the conversations that I have heard and been told about that they appreciate Hitler's business model. Now, if I were a betting man, I would say if you spend a lot of time appreciating Hitler's business model sooner or later you're going to get to he had some other good ideas. So fuck off if you think they don't love Hitler to right. And I think you know I think that from Charlotte's conversation, one of the things that you can take away is, you know, a delineation between from his experience and the documents that he had been able to get a hold of right and the experience that he had living among these people, right? There wasn't a racialized

aversion of this or an ethnic sure that there was a religiously based elite kind of thing. And if you wanted to have that conversation about, you know, maybe Hitler's policies creeping creeping in in terms of just, you know, related to Christians and non Christians, maybe, but but in terms of master races and stuff like that. Sure. There's a breakdown between what you would normally have come to your mind when you envision Hitler and what they are interested in. Right. Right. I understand. And I think that there isn't there is a difference, but there's also, you know, I also get your point. Who cares? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But Alex has failed on this point because Charlotte's pushing back. Right. And so Alex has to move on to a next point. Gotcha.

But also, also you say Jeffrey Charlotte, writer for Harper's magazine. You also say in there that they in an interview you did for grill and his network that that Nietzsche they they talk a lot about Nietzsche. Well, Nietzsche was insane. He said God was dead. He hated Christians. I mean, you've got all these unsundry characters. This is all they seem to talk about. Well, I depict a scene in which one very intelligent young guy and I had a discussion about Nietzsche. And I should say, look, I think Nietzsche, the philosopher, we should all study whether or not we agree with him. I don't think that's out of line. I don't think that's crazy. Fair. Yeah. That's right on. Good call. Yeah. The end of a good point. Boy, I don't know if these these

rock holds that Alex is trying to get up the side of the cliff on are being very helpful. Yeah. By reading Nietzsche, you mean that they're totally evil, right? There's no way you can read a book that you disagree with and not be evil immediately afterwards. It's what happens. Yeah. And so he even does slip back into being like they like Hitler to the point where Jeff Charlotte has to like, like basically correct. See, now that's annoying. Yeah. Now again, I want to emphasize Chuck Colton is not a Nazi. He's not an anti semi. What these guys admire, though, is the organizing principles and they don't make the distinction. Well, this is what they admit to you. This is what they admit to you on the surface. I believe that. I believe that. I've

researched them pretty deeply and I don't think that makes them any less. You know who founded skull and bones. I know just that I've heard of skull and bones. Don't read the MSNBC article. It was founded by a secret German cult. Yeah, this condescending. Yeah, fuck off. Yeah. How fucking dare you? Yeah, that is the most annoying thing of like, Hey, I've invited you on. We're going to talk about this. I don't know much about this. I'm going to tell you about different stuff. But that's annoying. But even before you jump off on that track, like it's this guy giving his in depth experience and knowledge about this subject and I was like, Oh, that's just what they tell you on the surface. Yeah. That's disrespectful to the reason you have this person

on your show 100% conceivably. You would have him on to learn about the thing that he has studied. Yeah. As opposed to condescending and explain to him that his research is inferior to yours. Right. I think that's another that's another element, you know, and if people would you ever want to talk to Alex Jones or anything and it's like getting even barring his horrendous, disqualifying views. I just don't want to be interviewed by this shitbag. He's the worst person to talk to. Yeah, he just sucks. He's he's very rude even at this point, but it's less like it's less aggressively, right? It's more underhanded. Yeah. There's a there's a passive aggression that may actually be going in both directions because whether he understands it

or not. Jeff Charlotte ends up saying some things that Alex would consider fighting words today. Okay. And here is one of them. Okay. You say that some Christian organizations believe this is an anti-crashed organization. Can you tell us about that, sir? Yeah, sure. I think that they're even crazier. There is a group online that has been tracking this guy.co for some years on the theory that he is the antichrist. And if you believe in that particular kind of literalist, unsophisticated reading of revelation, yeah, then I suppose he could fit your profile. I think you didn't Christ. No, but there are these groups that are out there. Well, regardless, saying that the Hitler and Stalin or Mao model, I mean, that's sick enough. That's sick enough.

That's that's what that's what that's my point. Exactly. We don't need to. We don't need to even go any further than that. As soon as you say, Hey, let's let's use the Hitler model for Christ. Well, you've gone off the tracks right there. Yeah. But I can't imagine someone saying that. Look, you if you're one of those lunatics, those absolute nutbags, those fucking crazy folk who believe that the book of revelations is literally going to happen. If you have that kind of an unsophisticated understanding, you are dumb enough to take the book of revelations literally. If someone I can't even believe people that stupid exist. Yeah. Yeah. Alex would take a swing. Yeah, that would be that would be a fight for sure. Yeah, I did get a sense that Alex might

be biting his tongue or whatever. Because, you know, you've heard earlier in the interview, I'm talking about like the Harpers are very prestigious. So yeah, thank you for being here. There is. I still think that he thinks this might be a get, you know, like, yeah, it's I mean, for him, it seems like it would be a fairly good chance to try and legitimize your your shitty outfit. Sure. You know, sure. And maybe make some connections with other totally folks who aren't completely ignored as Alex is like, hey, Jeff, could you get me the phone numbers of some of those important people in the family and see if they want to give me a lot of money? Yeah, a lot of money. I believe exactly what they believe for a price, but I don't think it

goes. I don't know if it goes that direction. Yeah, like Mike Lindell gave them a bunch of money. Yeah, yeah, of course. No, no, no, no. When you figure out how to get powerful, you don't have to. Yeah, people give you a shit. So something that I think is really fascinating is the point that Charlotte makes, which is about his assessment of the people is they may not even recognize that what they're doing is essentially calling for a dictatorship. Yeah. Yeah. And I find it so fascinating that like really you see the same things in more recent Alex Jones. Yeah. More like in the last few years, there is a sense of like whether you understand it or not, what you're doing is trying to push for a dictatorship. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it.

And I think that's a common thread throughout is a certain number of people who really feel that a few elite men should be calling all the shots. And that's the government model they admire. And they don't even quite recognize sometimes that what they're advocating is dictatorship. It's just it's bizarre to me to see this like conversation that's weirdly, you know, illuminating of what will happen in Alex's future. Yeah. So one of one point that Charlotte makes that makes me kind of think that he has a least like maybe a baseline awareness of Alex is that he brings up that, you know, these aren't like your fundamentalists that you would normally think of who are as he refers to provincial. Sure. These are people who have international

interests. Right. Right. Right. And he brings this up as something that was relevant to Alex's audience. Any other facets you want to hit on before we take calls? Sure. The one thing I would like to say that I think that your listeners are attuned to that one of the most compelling things about this group is that they're internationalists. And I think liberals too often dismiss fundamentalists as as stupid and as provincial and local. And these guys are none of that. They're very internationalists. They're very sophisticated. They're very savvy. They're charming. They're not Jerry Falwell screaming at you on the on the TV. These groups are, you know, that they look just like everyone else, as they say. And I think if we're going to really combat fundamentalism,

we need to acknowledge that and give credit where credit is due because accomplish a lot and they can do a lot and they're smart. And there's good things about their vision. We should try and encourage those Jeffrey. Jeffrey, there's nothing wrong with being fundamentalist issues that are important. I'm a fundamentalist from the Constitution Bill of Rights. Well, that's a little bit different than being a fundamentalist Christian. Well, I am a fundamentalist reading of the Bible, which just has no historical basis. You have this whole left wing view, this whole left wing lens that you're seeing them through little condescending again. You have this whole left wing view of where you've read about the book and then you've learned about it and you know it's not literally

true. That's the leftist bullshit that you're taught in schools because that's where knowledge comes from. I'm against the left right paradigm, which is to say I am a fundamentalist Christian. You got it. Who has extremely hard right politics. There you go. Sweet. And I hate left wing bullshit. There you go. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. So they take some calls and this one call brings up a pretty prescient point. I really think that this hits on a little bit of what Alex did in relation with Trump. I think this will make sense. Yeah, well, I was just what I was going to say was, is that it's confusing the human accomplishment and the conservative right type person. They are so impressed with authority and success. And they're trained never to doubt anything.

This is the good Christians and to be their servants. I think you've got it right there, Dan, that this is kind of fetish for authority and success and confusing that with what being a good Christian is, which is the total opposite message, actually. So I think if you get rid of Alex's interjection, that is kind of off track a little bit. What you have is a caller saying that in a lot of these right wing Christian types can can conflate their interest in success and authority. You can you can mix that up with an image of godliness. And I think that Alex did an outrageous amount of that with Trump. Yeah, that guy might as well have just been like, hey, you know, I bet the internet's going to come along and it's going to make celebrity go kind of

out of control. And then people are just going to wind up following celebrities and believing that they know what they're talking about, even if they have no fucking clue and just got their money for no reason whatsoever. Or their dad gave it to them. Those people are probably going to want him to become a fucking dictator. Crazy. Not a bummer. Yeah. So they get another call and this this fellow tries to compliment Charlotte and Alex is not going to have any of that. Oh no, Bob in New York. Anything else real quick, Bob, you want to say to Jeffrey? Well, Jeffrey, you've done some great work. You opened up something that we weren't even aware of. Well, I was aware of it under different names. What a dick. Fuck you. Oh my god. Why do you have

to do this? Oh my god. Oh, this is the first radio head show. Fuck off. No one cares. Why did you invite this person on if you know more than them? And you know, you knew about it before they ever came along. Why have the interview that welcome to the Alex Jones insecurity hour where I will be feeling weak and pathetic compared to someone who has done his work and anything I don't like is secretly just left his smoke screen that this guy has bought into. Yep. Yep. Why do this? Why? Yeah, so stupid. That is awful. So we get one more call here. This is where Alex decides I'm done with calls. Okay, sir. What's on your mind? Okay, well, if real quick, if I could just explain my story, what I have to explain Dwarf, what you guys have

been talking about, but basically I'm going to try to make this real short. The state of Michigan has just came and raped and pillaged my whole family. Well, sir, we see these horror stories every day. I may have to hold you over the next hour. And you tell me you're calling in from Texas. Yeah, I'm calling from Texas. I it's a child support issue. Okay, sir. I'm going to have to put you on hold. Okay. Because I when I have a guest on it's about that issue. You know what? I'm not going to take any more calls. I just want to go ahead and let our guests finish up. I wouldn't take any more calls after that. I'm not going to do any custody shit. Yeah, but you have a child support issue in Michigan that trumps and completely eclipses the family. Yeah. Yep.

I think what's really funny about that is we've got one more great irony, which is that Alex does not want to talk about child support and custody issues on his show. Well, he does in the past. He does. He does. No, I know. But not with this guy. Right. I know. He tries to hold him over into the next hour and then apparently his phone. Oh, lost him. Yeah. But I think the greater point is that Alex is being really condescending and insulting to his guest. And this caller calls in and is condescending and insulting to Alex's show. It is Russian doll. It's time to take down the entire state of Michigan. Yeah. So there is another hour of the show, but it is just Alex inter interviewing the mom from that story we talked about last time,

the Waltham, right? Right. Where they didn't want to take a stay. Yeah. Yeah. I learned nothing from that. Oh, you didn't know, but you learned so much the last time we talked about the entire thing. They didn't have more information. There wasn't. There wasn't. I didn't. I didn't feel like I had a better grasp on the case. I didn't think it was interesting at all. That's not surprising. So yeah, I just I have no clips from the last hour. Good. I'm fine with that, but it happened. I guarantee it. I think far more interesting are these first two hours because each one has something really bizarre in it. Totally. First hour you have Alex completely dropping the ball on something that could have been an issue that he could have actually stood on principle with

BP ball. Yeah. And instead he turned it into a nonsense Waco conspiracy. Oh yeah. And then in the second hour, this interview with a guy from Harper's just being a real dick to people, just being a real dick, just being a real dick to anybody who knows anything. And like in addition to just being a rude host. Yeah. Also just completely making a mockery of himself if he had a time machine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's really kicking his own ass. Yeah. He took himself to the cleaners. Yeah. Just really insulting all those people who love it. Yeah. You got it. I don't know. We we've got to find. I think Alex Jones in the past would be a sharper critic of Alex Jones in the present than us. Maybe. I think he would be less restrained than you. Yeah. He wouldn't be

as funny or as happy. Go lucky. No. Are we happy? I think we're actually very, very fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He wouldn't be someone I would listen to even if he was critiquing himself. No. But I do think he would be mad at himself. Yeah. Yeah. I really feel like this is only like the only thing I can think of in my head for this is some sort of celebrity death match claymation thing where they get Alex Jones at 20 versus Alex Jones at 40. Like that's just got to be that. I mean they they just kill each other. He would just kill each other. Yeah. I bet young Alex would probably win. But then he would be suffocated under the crushing weight of old Alex. What a tragedy. It would be a nightmare to see them cancel each other out like a positron or whatever. Yeah.

So I enjoyed this trip back to the past. That's great. Yeah. I like I like seeing these dynamics and this weirdness. Yeah. But we'll be back on Friday. Indeed. Another episode. Until then, Jordan, we have a website. We do. It's knowledgefight.com. Yep. We also are on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's at knowledge underscore fight and that go to bed, Jordan. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I'm Daryl Rundis. And now here comes the sex robot. Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.