Knowledge Fight - #659: July 21-23, 2003

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Today, Dan and Jordan put Alex in timeout to go back to the past.  In this installment, Alex continues to make stuff up about the death of David Kelly, wastes a load of time, and gets into a fight with a caller from Canada who thinks Alex is a coward. Citations

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge I'm a huge fan. I love your work. Knowledge fight. Need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy is time to pray. Andy and Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding me. Hello, Alex. I'm a Christian. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. Knowledge fight. I love you.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back, and I'll try to update. I'm Jordan. We're couple dudes. Sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are, Dan. Jordan. Jordan. I have a quick question for you, sir. Again? Yes. Wow. Like every time. Oh, my God. I mean, it's absurd, really. Yeah. What? What's your bright spot today? My bright spot today I think is that I think I'm done with wordle. I was a late adopter because I just saw people posting these green dots and

shit online, and I was like, I don't want to get involved. Right. I see these things come and go, and I just like, I'm too old for this nonsense, but I do like word games. I like, you know, I'm a Scrabble guy. I have been in the past. I like kicked my ass every time we've played Scrabble true by a wide margin. Yep. And Boggle. I like Boggle. You love Boggle. There's some other games that have equally ill-fitting names that I enjoy. So I decided to give it a try, and I'm on a 25 day streak, and it's not even fun. You've gotten it right every day for 25 days, and you're disappointed.

I don't want to be like bragging or anything. Hey, I'm sounding like Alex here. Right. Look, I don't want to brag. Listen, no big deal, but you've gotten it right. It might be a very easy thing, a very easy game, and there might not be all that much to it. I mean, I'm pretty sure that is the specific charm to the game. It might be. Not for you. It might be. Yeah, it might be why it has universal appeal. The bar of entry is, it's just not challenging enough. So pick it up, New York Times.

Get your shit together. How many times do we have to say this to you, New York Times? I don't know. I guess if I wasn't getting them right, I'd be mad. So the flip side of this is I think you need to be getting it right at around like 85% of the time to both have the satisfaction of achievement while at the same time, something to like shoot for if 25 days out of 25 days in a row, you're just like, I can quit. I'm the master of this game. I'm not, I'm not going that far, but I am saying that I have, I have grown weary of it. It's the opposite of Elden Ring. Right. But I mean, think about it this way. If you got one wrong tomorrow, then the next day you'd be so ready and raring to go.

Maybe. I might not. That's true. I might be in the exact same place I am now, which is I'm not very interesting. What's your bright spot? My bright spot is I have, as you know, we talked about it. I got contacts. Right. But I didn't even notice because you also shaved your beard around at the same time. So just like multiple switches at the same time, wipe out of my face. But the eye doctor, whenever I got the contacts, we put in the regular ones, everything was going great. And then right as I'm about to leave,

he just puts two loose contacts in my hand, not loose, like they were out. Lucy's little, yeah, two Lucy's. And he kind of gets in real close, like he's doing a drug deal. And it was like, you know, these are transition contact lenses. And I was like, I do not understand what you're talking about in the light. They change to a darker color. What fun. It's amazing. Magic. Magic concept. Because I have very sensitive eyes. I do like the idea of the doctor trying to be like a, I mean, it was, it was literally like, you know, it was your first taste is free.

It was straight up like, check these out. You don't even know, man. I had, I don't know. I think it was like strep throat in college one time. And I couldn't swallow pills. I had gone to the student health center to get some steroids to alleviate things. And because I couldn't take pills, I needed to get the liquid steroids. And the doctor, when he was given to me, had that same kind of moment where it was sort of like conspiratorial. He was like, this is the stuff the rappers sing about. Like what? Yeah. That's a fun moment. That is a fun moment for me. It was about getting messed up on purple

drank. Yes. Apparently. Yes. Though I was actually sick. Yeah. Like I was anyway. Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. Oh, we do. We do actually a number of episodes. So I wanted to, after our last episode, I'm putting Alex in a little bit of a timeout cage. So, so just some awfulness and such. We'll get back to him. I'm not going to chase him around in the present day. So I decided it would be good to go back to the past again to 2003, because there was a story that we had left hanging sort of in 2003, which was the situation with the weapons expert in Iraq who had died from suicide. And I felt like if we left that hanging too long, we might forget that that was something that we had been like, we'll get back to this.

Right. Right. No, no, no. This is important. So we're going to take care of some of that, as Alex talks about it. And then a painfully boring stretch of Alex's show that leads to something quite fun. Okay. And we'll get down to business on that, all that. But before we do, Jordan, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks. Oh, that's a great idea. So first, Tabby Prancer dancing in the hall. Thank you so much. You're in a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Hold me closer, Tabby Prancer. Dancing in the hall. Yeah. Next, Alex Jones' forehead, Vayne, who's sick of his shit. Thank you so much. You're in a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next, Charles Schwab. Thank you so much. You're in a policy wonk. I'm a

policy wonk. Wait, is that buzz marketing or yeah? It's hard to tell. Did they get in touch with us? They better. Next, Stacky's mom has got it going on. Thank you so much. You're in a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next, Unity Paint Stuff, Punk Rock King of the Cats. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And fuck it. You know what? I am mad at the crew. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. So we're going to be covering today, July 21st through 23rd, 2003. And I kind of had just intended to, you know, just do one episode in the chat. But man, no man's land. Oh, this is a long desert of content. Alex is in a weird,

weird stretch of saying nothing for long periods of time on the show, which is why we need to go three days to actually find enough stuff to talk about. I mean, the past is literally catching up with you. Yeah. Yeah. And so we do get to, on this July 21st episode, pretty much right away, Alex brings back up the weapons inspector from the UK, David Kelly. Right. So that gives us a chance to clean the slate on this one. On Friday, we talked about the death of the Ministry of Defense, bioweapons expert, former head of port and down bioweapons laboratory that has its own ramifications. And we predicted that they would claim that it was a suicide. And within about eight hours of finding his body, yes, they were sure it's a suicide. Of course,

the first police there said it was quote, a grizzly find. And he had just emailed a friend saying, I'm going to fight this. I'm going to expose these people. I'm going to get my good name back. And it was a place he walked a couple of times a week. He would walk about five miles away from this house and walk back British or big walkers. And he was obviously ambushed and killed from all the evidence. And I've read 50 news articles. I've literally this weekend, I've read his email that the Dr Kelly sent to a friend. He had, he did everything that somebody would do that was going to fight for their, for their honor. And that was going to stand up. He had three children, a wife. He was only what 50 something years old. So I decided not to cover this on our last 2003

episode because I knew it was a story that was going to come back up and that Alex was going to develop a conspiracy around. So I wanted to wait until he had a chance to do that before getting into any rebutting. So the piece that we discussed on the last episode is just how Alex was exaggerating and making up details in the immediate aftermath of Kelly's death in order to present the idea that he was murdered. Now more information has become public. So Alex is claiming victory in his prediction that this was a murder that's being covered up. So now let's try and understand this case a little better in its proper context. This story begins with David Kelly, a well respected expert in biological weapons speaking to a couple of journalists under the assumption of anonymity.

These were Andrew Gilligan of the BBC and Susan Watts who reported for Newsnight. One of the striking details that was included in both of their reports was that Downing Street had intentionally misled the public by injecting a claim into a dossier about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction capability, namely that the Iraqi government could activate their weapons within 45 minutes. Right. This was a salacious detail, a very headline grabbing detail that was in both Watts and Gilligan's reporting from an unnamed source. It was something that previously to this even Tony Blair had announced in the rationale for going to war. What was the name of that code name? It was like Iceman or something like that, the lying, the fake source that they used to just lied their

teeth off of. This isn't him. Okay. That's not David Kelly. No, no, no. I know that's not David Kelly, but the Iceman was that murderer that they had the special about. Well, and the guy from Top Gun. Oh, that's right. I was thinking of Mr. Freeze. David Kelly was goose. So Gilligan's reporting specifically alleged that this claim was put in as an attempt by the government to mislead. Right. In his initial appearance reporting on this on the May 29th, 2003 episode of Today, Gilligan said, quote, what this person says is that a week before the publication date of the dossier, it was actually rather a bland production. It didn't. The draft presented, prepared for Mr. Blair by the intelligence agencies, didn't actually say very much more than was public

knowledge already. And Downing Street, our source says, ordered a week before publication, ordered it to be sexed up to be made more exciting and ordered more facts to be to be discovered. Gilligan stressed that this detail, the 45 minute point was very central to Tony Blair's appeal to go to war, since it stressed the immediacy of the potential threat. And in his reporting, he was strongly suggesting that based on this unnamed source, this was something that they knew shouldn't have been included in the dossier. This was primarily because it was something that only came from one source initially, who this apparently this intelligence source claimed was thought to have been mistaken. The person who was the person, the one source that was behind

the 45 minute claim was known to be probably wrong. Yeah, why was there a liar? Yeah, or just like a fabulous or something. Right. So the next day after this, May 30th, Susan Watts contacted Kelly and interviewed him over the phone, which she recorded. The transcript of this call makes it very clear that Kelly was aware that he was the source of these claims, and that from particular details in Gilligan's reporting, as well as that of another BBC reporter Kelly had spoken to, it was clear that Watts could tell that he was their source based on previous conversations that they had had, right, right. So pretty immediately, the Ministry of Defense at Downing Street came out and strongly denied the claims that were being made in the media. And the House

of Commons set up a committee to investigate whether or not the decision to go to war had been done with complete and accurate information. One of the MPs who launched the effort, Donald Anderson, specifically cited Gilligan's reporting as one of the factors that led to the decision to open that inquiry. At the same time, the Ministry of Defense was getting curious about who had leaked this information that they felt was inaccurate. On July 30th, Kelly wrote a letter to his higher-ups at the Ministry of Defense, which definitely intended to create the impression that he barely spoke to Gilligan. He didn't say the stuff that was being reported, and that he didn't even consider that he could have been his source until June 19th, when someone informed him that

some of the evidence provided in the House of Commons inquiry matched details he would have given. Right. This is demonstrably untrue. The stuff that he was saying in this Ministry of Defense letter, given the recording of Kelly's conversation with Watts from May 30th. In discussing the reporting that was happening, she asked, quote, are you getting much flack over that? To which Kelly replied, quote, me? No, not yet. Anyway, I was in New York. Watts says, quote, yes, good timing, I suppose. And Kelly offers up, quote, I mean, they wouldn't think it was me. I don't think. Maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't. I don't know. Well, retrospect, probably shouldn't have said that one. Yeah, this letter prompted some internal conversations and interviews within

the Ministry of Defense, which really were not good for Kelly. He was interviewed by his superiors on July 4th. And on the 7th, a note was prepared in respect to the interviews, which starts, quote, I began by explaining to Dr. Kelly that his letter had serious implications. First, on the basis of his own account, it appeared that he breached the normal standards of civil service behavior and departmental regulations by having a number of unauthorized and unreported contacts with journalists. Regardless of the detail of what had passed, this opened up the possibility of disciplinary action. This is really bad for Kelly, because even if his story about not being the source for these claims was accurate, he still might be in trouble. And the fact that he's admitting

to undisclosed contacts with journalists necessarily meant that more questions were going to be asked about these contacts. Oh, yeah. That initial interview didn't go all that well with it coming out that Kelly didn't even seem to be aware of the Ministry of Defense protocol as it related to interacting with journalists. From the note about his interview, quote, he said that he had not really regarded his discussions with journalists, academics, etc. as being about defense business, but as a continuation of his role as a UN expert. I said that this was at best extraordinarily naive. Journalists who are not seeking information out of academic interest, but to construct stories. In that interview, the stakes of the situation became pretty clear, which may not have been the

case prior. Richard Hatfield, the personnel director of the Ministry of Defense, brought up that whether Kelly meant for it to be the case or not, his conversation with Gilligan may be central to resolving a public dispute between the government and the BBC. Quote, it might become necessary to consider a public statement based on his account. Gilligan's reputation was at stake and he would be bound to challenge any inaccuracies. And I reminded Dr Kelly of the possibility that he might have been tape recorded. Ultimately, Hatfield took Kelly's word and decided that his actions in terms of talking to journalists was very naive, but not rising to the level of requiring disciplinary action. So he essentially got off with a warning in regards to these

meetings that were about his letter that he sent to the Ministry of Defense about the suspicions. But questions lingered, and as more details came out from the Foreign Affairs Select Committee inquiry that was initiated by the House of Commons, it became more and more clear to people within the Ministry of Defense that in all likelihood Kelly was Gilligan's source, or Gilligan was making things up in a way that attributed his coverage to a source who was meant to look like Kelly. Right. When the FAC report was released, they determined that there was no evidence that the claim that the 45 minute detail was added at the behest of Downing Street against the wishes of the intelligence community, as was the contention of Gilligan's reporting, which relied on Kelly

as a source. Because of that, it became clear to people in the Ministry of Defense that a bunch of questions are about to start flying around about who the source for Gilligan's story was, and that if it were asked, they would have to say that someone had come forward internally, or else they would be in effect engaging in a cover-up. They wouldn't have to come out name Kelly, but they warned him that there was a very high likelihood that his name would come out based on his contacts with multiple journalists who are probably going to be able to put the pieces together. Right. But you're hosed. That's what they're saying. Well, maybe not hosed, but like, there is a hose. There's a possibility of something going bad. On July 8th, the Ministry

of Defense released a statement that someone inside the Ministry had come forward to say that he had met with Gilligan, though Kelly was not named in this statement. The statement reflected terms that Kelly had agreed to, and that what he had said when he met Gilligan didn't match the account in the reports. That was the basis of the statement. And like I said, Kelly agreed to this being released. Naturally, this led to the BBC releasing a statement defending their reporting, which led to an impasse, since both sides couldn't really reveal who they were talking about. That's a trouble. Yeah. On July 9th, Kelly's name was confirmed to the press as being the person who came forward as the result of a Q&A session with a representative from the Ministry of Defense.

They had set up a policy of not naming Kelly, but if a question was asked directly to them, they would be able to confirm that he was the official in question. Oh my God. This set off a bit of a media blitz and Kelly decided to not be at home for a while, taking his family to a coastal town. Yeah, that was wise. Kelly understandably felt hung out to dry by the Ministry of Defense and also a bit miffed that he wasn't taking to a secure location prior to the name being confirmed to the press. That could have led to some danger. And when Alex talks about like him feeling mistreated by the government, this is a large part of it. The fact that he wasn't giving any heads up about like you're going to confirm that I'm the person who came forward

in the Ministry of Defense. Right. Their policy was essentially Will Ferrell in Austin Powers, where it's like, damn, you asked me three times. Now I have to tell you it's Mr. Kelly. Like, what are you talking about? If they ask a good question, then you have to tell them. Well, the problem with that too, conceivably, is they're like, if you just listed off names eventually. I've been right. It's silly. It's not an ironclad way to keep information. Here are my guesses. Is it him? No. Is it him? No. Is it him? Yes. Thank you. So on July 15th, Kelly appeared before the Foreign Affairs Committee and questions came up not only about his conversations with Gilligan, but also Susan Watts. In his testimony,

Kelly claimed that he had only met with Watts one time and it was in November 2002. On this basis, he denied making the claims that were alleged in Susan Watts's reporting. This will become a huge problem later because, as I mentioned, Watts recorded their interview. His interview viewed in the context of other known information seems very evasive and like someone covering their tracks, but probably not somebody acting maliciously. It has the feeling of somebody who made a huge mistake and things have gotten way out of hand to the point where reputations and life's work were in danger of being destroyed because he was a very credible, well-respected weapons expert who had a deep resume. And I don't know. It seems like there's

a possibility he was just talking shit and it got out of hand. Yeah. He just started talking and then kept trying to do damage control, only made things spiral further out of control. It has some of that vibe. Yeah. So Kelly left the FAC hearing feeling good and fairly relieved and the chair of the committee, Donald Anderson, released a statement to the press that included this line, quote, colleagues have also asked me to pass on their view that Dr. Kelly has been poorly treated by the government. That again is another place where Alex is taking this claim of mistreatment from the government towards Kelly. Right. The next day, July 16th, Kelly was set to testify before the Intelligence and Security Committee, which followed along a lot of the same lines

as the previous day's hearing. On the 17th, Kelly provided a list of journalists he'd been in touch with to the committees and wrote a bunch of emails to associates. Many had reached out with well wishes and he replied graciously and said that he hoped that things would blow over soon. Sure. Alex is mischaracterizing these emails as him saying he's going to fight to the death and I'll never give up and I will never surrender. But he's doing that because that's what fits the archetype narrative that Alex sells about whistleblowers. Right. That's Alex fudging details to make a particular case fit his mold as opposed to him recognizing details that are, you know, like seeing them out in the wild and like, yeah, that's consistent with my mold. No,

it's just jamming it into the hole. According to Kelly's wife's testimony that morning, they'd gotten up and he seemed normal, but pretty tired. A little later in the day, she found him sitting silently in the sitting room, which was uncharacteristic of him. She said, quote, I thought he had a broken heart. He was very, very, he had shrunk into himself. He just looked as he as he had shrunk. He couldn't put two sentences together. They couldn't talk. Around three 20 that afternoon, Kelly left the house for a walk, having previously received a call from an associate of his wing commander, Clark, who had discussed issues related to Susan Watts with him. It's theorized in the full investigation of his death that at some point

after the hearings, he became aware that there was a recording of his interview with Watts, and that he had testified that he had absolutely not said the things that were on that tape. Right. Clark's mention that they had discussed Watts in their last phone call gives some credence to this as does Clark's testimony regarding Kelly's response to the hearing on the 15th. Quote, he was totally thrown by the question or the quotation that was given to him from Susan Watts. He spoke about that when he came back to the office. He said that through him. Yeah, he did not expected or anticipated that that would have come to the fore in this forum. Right. I'm not going to get into the details about it, but there's a very compelling and thorough amount

of evidence that he died from suicide and that all the details and fantasies Alex is adding to the story are just figments of his sick imagination. His story is a tragedy and in all likelihood, it's a story of someone who made a really big mistake. And then in the process of dealing with that mistake, made a series of further mistakes and tell you is facing the prospect of his reputation being destroyed, his freedom possibly being taken away, and even the possibility of him being seen as working against his country's government. Yep. David Kelly at the root of things wasn't even a whistleblower the way Alex uses the term. And Alex's coverage of this story is just disgraceful. With no evidence other than his imagination, Alex is suggesting that Kelly

was ambushed and murdered. Because if that were true, it would really help Alex tell the kind of scary stories that he likes to tell to keep his audience interested. He's exploiting tragedy and using Kelly's death as a prop. And I find that inexcusable and disgusting. And that, you know, the story of Kelly's fall is it's a tragic, but very interesting tale. Yeah, it is. It is very much like cinematic in its elements, you know, just that like, oh, fuck, oh, fuck, oh, fuck, and it keeps trying to get ahead of it keeps trying to be one step away from like, I got away and it just caught up, just caught up, man. Possibly. Or I think there's an entire possibility that he didn't think that he had said the things that were being used in the reporting. Oh, sure.

Until he realized there was a recording of stuff and that it became became harshly real. Yeah. I don't really know. And since he's gone, you know, I don't know if you'll ever really know. Right. But I yeah, I don't know. I don't say it's just it's a sad it's a sad story that did not have to go this way. Nope. And I think Alex only makes it worse by trying to co-opt it for his own purposes. You betcha. Now there is one detail that actually does lend itself to Alex's theories. Okay. And Alex is going to bring it up in this next clip and dead scientists feared dark actors playing games. He had just contacted a friend and said, I'm being harassed. I'm being intimidated. I'm being mistreated. Dark actors are all around me. And then he ends up dead and they say, oh,

suicide, suicide, suicide. So Alex is exaggerating that. But there is an email that David Kelly sent that morning that mentioned quote dark actors. There's an irony that Alex is missing here, though, because that email was sent to New York Times columnist and Iraq war all star Judith Miller. On the 16th Miller wrote Kelly saying quote, I heard from another member of your fan club that things went well for you today. Hope it's true. Kelly replied on the morning of the 17th quote, I will wait until the end of the week before judging many dark actors playing games. It's certainly a weird thing to say, but there's no context for this comment and none of his other correspondences nor his family members testimony match the conclusions that Alex is jumping to

right. You could easily see it being some reference that between him and Judith. Sure. Like I don't know. I don't know how people communicate, right? Because all the other emails that are, you know, they're all in his, uh, like the investigation document you can find. Um, none of them have that tone at all. No, it seems like maybe him and Judith were just on weird terms. Yeah. Well, that's entirely possible. I mean, I would imagine that at that time with his point of view in the circumstances, I imagine that he's definitely got some like people are out to get me, you know, well, actually one of his big fears, uh, that you can find if you really look into the details was that the Iraqi, uh, people would be out to get him. Um, and that's because he had been

involved in, uh, looking at weapons capabilities and also with some, not necessarily the highest levels, but some elements of negotiation and some, uh, discussions with the Iraqi side about like, just give these things up, give assurances and then there won't be a war. You know, nothing's gonna happen. And he had some fear that he would end up becoming a scene as somebody who was lying to them in order to attack them. Right. Right. No, the stakes could not be higher. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, it's brutal. Yeah. It's just, just horrific. Yeah. Anyway, uh, Alex gets a call. He is not a lot, not a lot going on. And so he takes call and this caller wants to know like, what is the military industrial complex? What is this shadowy organization? All right. And who's

on top? This is a big question. It is. And Alex gives the, the pecking order. Okay. And the devil, is he correct? The devil is missing. Oh, what, what is the military industrial complex exactly? Let me break this down. And what's the pecking order? Let me, let me break this down. The pecking order is the royal families of Europe. What? That own the tabloids by and large. That own the tabloids. This is admitted. Track the owners, the big tabloids back and it's owned by the royal family. They create this illusion that they don't have any power. They don't have any money. A really rich people don't want you knowing how much power they have. I understand that. So it goes to the royal families, uh, 5050 basically with the Rothschild's, Crump's and other big

industrialist families and banking families that own the private central banks that own the printing presses that print the money. So the really rich people print the money, issue the credit, control the banks. Now, out of them comes the military industrial complex. And that's the companies who shares are owned by the banks. That's the Lockheed Martins, the GEs that own the ABCs and the NBCs. So Alex isn't really giving the pecking order of the military industrial complex. He's putting it into another flow chart, which is the new world order, which has the Rothschilds and the bankers and the Crump's right above them. And they and above that is Queen Beatrix and Barnard. I mean, like if, if somebody asked me, Hey, Jordan, what's the military industrial complex? My question,

my first thought isn't like, well, the royal families own tabloids. That's not how you begin a response to that question. It's, it's, it is if you're an expert. No, it's not. No, it is not. So Beatrix. Absolutely not. See, okay. So the royal family owns tabloids, man. Yeah. You trace it back. They own tabloids and then they own banks and then the Rothschilds are involved and out of them comes the military industrial complex. But again, that's just Lockheed Martin and CBC and NBC. Like that's what we're talking about. They own NBC and ABC. I get it. Billionaires own everything. Fine. Well, no, the, the Lockheed Martin and the military industrial complex own the TV stations. Oh, I forgot about that. They themselves are owned by the bankers and Rothschilds and Crump's,

who are then owned by the royal family. Now we know because of the present day that the devil is above that. Top, top marks. Alex is either intentionally obscuring this fact in the past or it wasn't a piece of his cosmology or he just didn't know yet. I think he hadn't gotten the visions from God yet. Who knows? He hadn't been hit on the head enough times. Yes. Well, that's possible. So Tony Blair Bush, the two of them pieces of shit, but also their poll numbers are dropping. Yeah, sure. And Blair poll rating plummets show is Bush approval rating plummeting. So look out. They may provide us with some terror so they can pose as our saviors. This clip is meaningless and there would be no reason to include it in the show on its own,

but I wanted to play it in order to bring up an important point because I think it's actually really detrimental to Alex's entire worldview. As he sees it, the evil globalists are essentially in control of everything, which is how he's able to determine what their next moves are going to be. Right. Bush and Blair are losing public support, so they need to do something to regain control over the population. And because Alex knows that they can do literally anything, the obvious solution is that they're going to do a false like terrorist attack to get the population back into a state of fear where they can be controlled. It's the only thing that makes sense, honestly. But that didn't happen. No, that's true. There wasn't a terrorist attack and George W. Bush's approval

ratings just continued to slump all the way until the end of his presidency. Right. If Alex's worldview was correct, this should not have happened. It should not have been possible for this to happen. Bush should have had all the control over the mechanisms that manipulate public opinion. And Alex knows that a false like terror attack is their favorite tool to win the people back because then they can pose as the world's savior. And it didn't happen. Bush's approval rating just yep. The reason that this clip would usually never make it into an episode is because Alex has shit like this all the time to the point where I barely even noticed these predictions that he got wrong when I'm listening to his show. These misfires that actually point to the conclusion that Alex's

entire worldview is meaningless just blend into the background of the show. Yeah, it's just constant. Yeah. I mean, it seems like at this point he would say if he knows what's going on that they're going to allow George Bush's approval ratings to drop further and follow farther so they can bring in a Democrat president, maybe even a black one. Well, if he pulled that off, man, I'm on his team. But he Alex isn't even for like we're not even at the 2004 election. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. We're quite a ways from 2008. If he could pull that one together, then we're talking about some serious prediction ability, but him being like they'll figure it out and he'll be fine. I still wouldn't give him that much like sort of predictive credit for that

because it still could be rooted in some kind of bigotry. That is true. It could just be like a racist grandpa on a chair accident. He's just like, oh, I bet they would put in a black president just to make that would win people over. Yeah, those bastards. Yeah, I could see that still not being like like strong into the future. Sure. Sure. Sure. So we have one more clip from July 21st because honestly this show stinks. A large percentage of it is Alex reading the entirety of a Ron Paul speech called neocon. That's great. Where he's talking about how bad the neocons are. They are. No disagreement. It's something to behold to Alex reading in 2003 because yeah, it's a little bit, well, a lot bit better than the president. He's better at sight reading

a little. He's got a better rhythm. Yeah. Instead of the constant struggle. It's still awful to listen to. But yeah, it's not nearly as torturous. But here's another dumb bad prediction. U.S. struggling to find replacement troops. This is out of Knight Ridder newspapers. Don't worry. They got a national draft lined up and they'll spray it on you after they blow up something else. So we have false flag terrorist attacks that the government and the globalists are going to do. That didn't happen. And then there's going to be a draft in response to that, which also didn't happen. I don't know. I mean, like if I wanted to, I could make this show just a wallowing in bad predictions that Alex makes. But it just, I don't know if it serves our entertainment

purposes. Not terribly. And I don't know how much you actually learn from just hitting that drum over and over and over and over again. So, so we shan't. Now we start to the 22nd and actually, holy shit, me and Alex agree on something. The Royal Family does run everything. No. Torture testimony acceptable. This is out of the London Guardian. The British government says that torture is acceptable and answers rung from individuals under torture is acceptable. Now, that's a 180 from Western civilization and every candidate for free society. You cannot trust confessions from torture. You cannot trust a government that will torture people, or you'll have to rethink your views on our airmen being tortured by the North Vietnamese

or by Hitler or what Joseph Mengele did in the death camps in Nazi Germany. All right, here we go. Yep. I know that some people probably don't believe me, but I really do try to keep my ears open for instances of things that I think Alex gets right. And they really don't come up that often. It's easy to think that because our shows about how much he's a huge liar and a bigot that we wouldn't want to allow any perception to creep in that he could be right about stuff. But the truth is that when it comes to concrete stories and positions, he's almost always wrong. But here's something I can get down with. I do believe the torture is always wrong. The testimony that's derived from torture can't be trusted,

and I'm glad that Alex is on the same page. Yep. Unfortunately, I know from listening to Alex into the future that he doesn't necessarily have this as a consistent position that he always sticks to totally find a certain that doesn't have to ruin the fun for the moment. Certain people get to torture as much as they want. In 2003, though, we're on board. 100% no torture. Hurrah. Yes. Thank you. This was a story about an MI5 expert testifying that they wouldn't think that information derived from torture is always not correct. And that sometimes it could be useful, which sucks. And even if that statement is true, it doesn't make the case for using that practice any more compelling. Yeah. The post 9-11 time was a horrific period where people were openly

discussing whether or not the benefits of torturing people made up for the inhumanity of it. And it's not pleasant necessarily to go back in and see just how awful things were those conversations that were happening in, you know, presumably mainstream spaces. Yeah. That Alex has such an easy stance to take to appear to be the same one. It is hard to imagine not reaching the bar of don't torture human beings. Yeah. And it's like, it is amazing that the Bush administration was like, okay, we got to get the shadiest, most evil lawyers we can find to write a torture memo that says it's okay for us to torture. And then we haven't even hunted them down and put them in jail for the rest of their lives. You know, like they're just allowed to

continue walking the earth like they're fine. Yeah. You know, and a lot of people on the left obviously were opposed to torture. Right. That wasn't hard. No. But some of the more mainstream figures that you might see like politicians, maybe were more tied to the political system and more encumbered than someone like Alex, who can give full throated condemnations, right? And then ramble about stuff that's really exciting, right? Whether it's true or not in many cases. And I can really see how that would make him pretty attractive to people who can't understand why people are having a conversation about whether you can torture people or not. I mean, I remember there were some people, they especially were representing

the military almost always, who were just so vehemently pro-torture. You know, they would have those Fox News, two heads, two sides to the torture argument. Wasn't it even like man cow was fine with waterboarding until they got water boarded. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like that kind of stuff happened. Yeah. Amazing. It's just, it's just incredible. Disgusting. Yep. So, Alex realizes that, hey man, maybe there are some first time callers. I should probably lay out who I am. What am I about? What are you? You're getting into this show for the first time and you wonder what we're all about. We're constitutionalists here. We believe in the Bill of Rights and Constitution. We believe in America, in the Second Amendment, in the family, in Jesus Christ.

We believe in controlling our borders. We believe in not attacking sovereign countries that have done nothing to us. We believe in fighting the Big Brother control grid, lowering taxes, abolishing the Federal Reserve, getting out of the United Nations. That means we're mortal enemies of the Neocons and their liberal stooges. And also demons walk among us. Yeah. I really need the devil to feature more heavily in what's going on right now. Of course not, because the sales pitch of I Am Opposed to Torture is attractive. Now, you're going to get people to wiggle off the hook if you're like, also, I fight literal Satan. Yes, I do understand that. Liberals, you're all just working for the devil. Yeah, that would have been a tougher sell.

It would have been harder, yes, to be like, no, no, no. I know you think that the royal families are the problem. The Rothschilds at the end of the day, the only person who would really torture the devil, the devil, the devil. Now, I don't have any clips of this, but I was that actually just made me think of something. And that is that like Alex is talking a lot about like, you know, vaccines and what have you. But Fauci doesn't come up. It does not come up strangely, but because he knew that he knew all along that Fauci was bad news. I mean, except for that stretch where he did. Well, there's also like international issues and things about like monetary stuff. Sure. Klaus Schwab doesn't come up. It seems odd.

Seems very strange. Seems real strange. I don't even think he's talking about Bill Gates. Bill Gates? He does hate Bill Gates. Well, yeah, who doesn't? But he's not coming up. Anyway, not a whole lot of content on this episode, but there is an interesting breakdown that Alex has where he decides to start talking about how like he doesn't watch TV anymore. And it leads to a very long ramble. Okay. I haven't watched more than two hours of TV in the last 100 years, two weeks. Now, normally I watch one hour a day and become physically ill. Literally, I get nauseated and angry. And because seeing them lying, seeing how evil they are, watching their smirking criminality, I can't handle it anymore. So I'm asking you to tape

Ashcroft on C-Span. I'm asking you to tape Hillary Clinton. I'm asking you to keep track of these people. I can't do it anymore. I just, I'm so happy not watching TV for the last two weeks. It's wonderful. And so, you know, if you see something on C-Span or the news, please tape it and send it to us and mark it and tell me what it is. And then if it's important, I'll watch it and do something with it. I understand like it's better to not spend a lot of time watching TV, but this is your job. Yeah. You're just making other people do your job now. Yeah. I mean, you could, you could hire somebody to do it for you. A lot of, a lot of shows. In fact, every late show has a writer's room dedicated almost entirely to watching shit

all day. That's true. And that, but even on the flip side of that, like, let's look at, let's look at this. I mean, like listening to Alex's show sucks. Yeah, that's true. I don't fucking enjoy it much. I'm not going to crowdsource this thing. Can you imagine just saying like, listen, I'm not doing the job anymore. If you guys want us to talk about something Alex Joe said, send us the clips on you. Yeah, we'll do it. I can't handle it anymore because it sucks. I must subject you to the thing that we'll do. We'll do an Alex Collin show, please. So anyway, I thought I thought this was going to be short, but it is not because Alex fakes something of a physical response. Sure. I just, I can't do it. I can't watch them anymore. It's

too painful because that's exactly what they are. And just thinking about it, I'm getting sick at my stomach. I am. I'm getting a headache right now. Get that image out of my mind. Get the images of them out of my mind. Okay, there we go. Tell these people, oh, it really is affecting me. Okay. It sounds like it. Wow. That sounds sincere. I mean, so intense the feelings that I'm getting from him right there. Gotta get it out of my mind. So he's supposed to be going to calls. Sure. And he's just kind of shivering. Yeah. And it goes on. It just goes on and on. The propaganda's gotten so bad, I had to turn it off. Because again, I just walk around the office or walk around home and watch them all over the channels and I turn up the volume and hear what

they were saying and pop a tape in. I kept tapes on all the VCRs and I've got giant stacks of video. We haven't even logged or watched yet. And we'll do it. I've gotten a bigger office and I've got more people in there now trying to log these and watch them and oh, they're so evil. There's no way to track their lives in evil. I can take one article and dissect it and show you hundreds of lies and do it. All right, your calls will come up in a minute. But I literally did just get a panging headache. Sure. And so painful. Started getting nauseated thinking about it. Because I have to watch the serial killers set up there and talk about how they're going to save us by taking all our rights away. We'll just give them more control. I get it. I get it why you faked

headache and stomach ache. I get it. You don't have to keep it explaining that I can't stand to look at these people. I say it one more time while he's gonna. I believe you. And not only is he going to say it, he's going to he's going to insult the police a little bit good because he has this conception that like, okay, you know, police, it's got to be tough to see somebody that you know is guilty get away with a crime. Sure. But it's not nearly as hard as what Alex has to put up. No, absolutely not. Alex has a much bigger cross to frankly cops don't do shit. I'd imagine police officers, good police officers, good detectives, good FBI that are out there who are going to part mentalize and actually do a good job. They know what I'm talking about. They know what it's

like to know somebody's a criminal to know they're a murderer to know they're a thief and to watch them get away with it and to watch them. I guess the police don't know what it's like then because they don't have to investigate a criminal and then watch them on the news as our savior being given rewards and awards. So I guess you don't know it's actually that is the cops and what a few of the police and detectives out there have experienced. Okay, it's a lot worse. It's very painful. I got to cover some of this news and I promise I'll get to the loaded phones here. I just really did affect me bringing back those images. That's why I turned the TVs off though and I

don't know how long I'm going to do it because I get all the same news out of the newspaper and more I just I just don't have to look at them. All right. All right. So this goes on quite a while. Wow. Yeah. Does he does he think that more explaining means he gets more sympathy from me? Because it's the inverse. The more you explain why I should be sympathetic to you, the less sympathetic I am. Well, I also think that maybe he doesn't get that his point has been made. You know, I think that sometimes he feels like I come up with another way to say yeah. Yeah. This I think he thinks he's adding more detail as opposed to repeating the same right. Right. Right. Right. He's he's like, Oh my God, this horse just coughed. Better keep beating

it. So this does end eventually. And I'm going to guarantee that Alex has been watching plenty of TV. Yeah. But he gets called from somebody who wants to know about a draft piece of legislation that Alex is pushing. Oh boy. Here we go. You want to know how to bring forward my resolution. The Save the Bill of Rights campaign has been passed by some cities and towns. There are many other resolutions. Some are weaker. A few others might be a little bit stronger than mine. Though I doubt it. You find a like minded city council member. You approach them and you bring them a few news articles that are all over the place, like the one out of the Anchorage Daily News, where it says where it says, hold on, Republicans pass

a a bill decrying the Patriot Act and restoring the Bill of Rights and Constitution. You say, look, conservatives in Alaska are doing this. They're trying to do it in Salt Lake City, conservative towns around Salt Lake are passing it. You show them conservative towns in Florida doing it. And you say this is a conservative issue because they're going to try to say it's a liberal issue. They try to do that in the media and vulcanize things. And you say we want you to simply say the Bill of Rights and Constitution are still in effect in this county and town and that you're going to stand up for it. And then you also pass out copies to ten of your friends who are going to be there and you have them all call members of the council beforehand or go down

and talk to them in person or ask them to have a cup of coffee with you in the morning at the local coffee shop and you educate them about it. And then you ask them respectfully to pass it. Then if they refuse, you start coming down and decrying them as spitting on the graves of our veterans if they won't simply pass a resolution saying the Bill of Rights is in effect and in power in your city or town. Hell yeah. So that clip is really interesting because I think it really boils down Alex's approach to politics. We've seen him play this out on a number of occasions like when he was obsessed with state legislatures passing bills to affirm the 10th amendment for a few months at 2009. He does this shit. Yeah. What's what happens is that Alex will identify a perceived threat

and come up with a completely symbolic and meaningless solution to it. He's mad about the Patriot Act so he wants states to pass bills that say the Constitution is real. Whether or not these states pass these bills, that is no effect on whether or not the Constitution is real. This is from top to bottom just a PR ploy. This may work in some places, but not many. Most governing bodies would be able to see that this is a purely symbolic, entirely meaningless act and to pass a bill like this would only serve to give the appearance that folks like Alex have real institutional power within the party. This would be giving the fringe right wing the appearance of a victory with nothing actually achieved and nothing gained for the politicians themselves. It would in effect

be the government's seeding power to the fringe, which is unlikely to ever happen in normal times without a fight. Right. And that's why the second aspect of Alex's strategy comes in, where he tells people to decry politicians who won't play ball as people who spit on the graves of veterans. Sure. He's basically hoping that this kind of threat will be enough to get these politicians to go along with his meaningless bill and that will to some degree allow Alex to demonstrate his own relevance and influence within mainstream politics without anything getting done and no risk actually being taken. Right. This is a model that you see often in the right wing media, but one of the things that's kind of troubling is that in our last episode we saw Marjorie Taylor Greene basically

playing the same game with her congressional accountability act. When people lament that the right wing has become conspiracy minded and like Alex, another thing to really keep an eye on is how much of the folks like Marjorie are governing like Alex might as opposed to just saying the kind of stuff. I think that congressmen should be here. Okay. All right. So they can vote. They can vote anyways. Yeah. But now they'll super vote. And if they don't do it, we will just harass. Let me let me throw this out. Paint them as cover up artists. Let me throw this out at you. Uh-huh. Here's how useless that bill is. Alex's bill. Yeah. You couldn't write a bill saying that they're not in effect here. Uh-huh. Right. Right. So it doesn't matter. If you can't

write a law saying you can't do this, there's no point in writing a law saying you can't. Right. It's not like some town in Florida could write a bill that says you have to quarter soldiers. Yeah. I mean, that would be insane. And then you do. That's not how it works. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Nope. Nope. Nope. And you can't have somebody who's like, ah, you have to quarter soldiers because here we don't even worry about the constitution. What are you talking about? Yeah. So that didn't go anywhere shockingly. Yeah. And neither does this fucking episode because we got one last clip and it's Alex making another dumb prediction. All right. Documents released under America's Freedom Information Act revealed in an energy task force

led by Vice President Dick Cheney was examining Iraq's oil assets two years before the latest war began. The papers were obtained after a long battle with the White House by judicial watch, a conservative legal charity that opposes government secrecy and which is suing for the dealings of the task force to be made public. This is just some of what they got. Most of it hadn't been released. The emergence of the documents could fuel claims that America's war in Iraq had as much to do with oil as national security. It also indicates that the blood administration is beginning to lose the battle to keep its internal working secret. And don't think the military industrial complex won't detonate a nuke or release smallpox

to smoke screen all of this. We're in very bad trouble right now. And I pray to God to protect us. And you better pray that too, folks. Protect us from these people, oh Lord. So it's fair that these are real documents and that judicial watch did get them released, but the coverage to them is a little bit skewed. The 16 pages of documents do include a map of Iraq's oil fields, but it also includes a map of the oil fields in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. It seems safe to say that these documents show that Cheney and his energy task force were aware of Iraqi oil fields prior to 9-11, but the larger picture of this set of documents make it difficult to use as definitive proof that the Bush administration did 9-11 or started the war in Iraq specifically

for oil. Whether or not you believe that to be the case for other reasons, these documents are not good proof for that conclusion because they also contain oil fields in other countries that weren't invaded, which seem to be counter examples to the presentation that Alex is making about these documents. Larger picture, though, this is a good example of how Alex covers stuff. There are some documents that got released that he can exaggerate and sensationalize. And in order to amplify their importance, he suggests that Bush might set off a fucking nuke or release smallpox in order to distract from these documents. Yeah. This is very common for him and probably the only reason we don't have a clip like this in every episode is because I ignore this shit most of the time

since this would get tedious. It's very tedious. Yeah. Yeah. So we jump to the 23rd. Like, I mean, just simply, you don't need to set off a nuke to get people to not pay attention to judicial watch. It's true. You know, I would I would be interested to do some national polling to see how many people even know judicial watches. Yeah. Because I would say a lot of people probably don't. Now, to be fair, in 2003, Larry Klayman was not in charge. Yeah, that is true. It was Tom Fitton. So this is not a Klayman joint. Yeah. I mean, to distract from judicial watch, you could probably like turn the lights out in a little part of Nashville and the whole country would be like, well, we don't need to pay attention to judicial watch. Now, there's this lights out

Nashville situation. You know, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah. I think to distract from this, you could, I don't know, televise a concert or something, something that trivial. Yeah. Yeah. The celebrity COVID messages would be more than enough to distract from this thing. Bring back rockin' jock basketball. And we're distracted from these documents. Battle bots. So we jump to the 23rd and Alex has, he starts off kind of with a weird, weird story. Men ordered to stay in from ABC News. Men ordered to stay in their homes in Spain at night. That's a new feminist move by the government. They say it's very loving and if you're against this, you're against women. There's a nighttime curfew now in a major city because, well,

men should be doing more of the housework. So this is the micromanagement of government and one of the globalist biggest allies in Juan Carlos, the king of Spain and others. So weirdly, I thought this had to have been about the fact that the night before this, there were two bombings at popular Spanish resorts in Alicante and Benadorm. I thought, for sure, that's what this story was about. Oh, so you're thinking that because of those bombings, they instituted a curfew. I thought for sure that was the case. I mean, it would make sense for that to be the case. So there are these two resorts that were approximately 29 miles apart. So it was obviously a terrorist attack that required coordination

in a Basque separatist group called the ETA had taken responsibility. I was certain that this was a situation where there was a curfew. It's the only thing that makes sense. But that wasn't the case. Oh, no. And ultimately, Alex never even brings up those bombings. Well, this actually is kind of what Alex is claiming. Interesting. So the mayor of a town in Spain, Torren Don Jimeno, he'd said that the men had to be in by nine o'clock on Thursdays so they could do chores. It's real, but it is. I fucking love it. I think it's great. Thursdays in that town were to be ladies night from then on. This was a guy named Javier Checa.

And because of decisions like this, he lost the reelection for mayor the next year, and this was ultimately an inconsequential human interest story. I mean, that will happen. If you do act like a silly clown man who's like, all Thursdays are ladies nights. I decree it. This story might be relevant to the people who lived in that town, but the idea that it's a story that Alex is reporting on his national radio show is some kind of proof that men are under attack. My out of control feminism is comical. Men are out of it are under attack by the mad hatter. Everyone must jump on one foot to get to work every day.

And imagining that this had anything to do with Juan Carlos is ridiculous. I feel like a better use of Alex's time as someone who's interested in important news would be to talk about the fucking bombings that resorts the day before. What's happening? That would make sense. He's talking about news out of Spain and some trivial bullshit like this, as opposed to two resorts where foreign nationals were staying and hurt. Right. But I mean, come on. A ladies night on Thursdays townwide. That's a fun story. That's more fun to talk about the bombing. But it shows it shows the level of content that Alex is kind of equipped to run with. Yeah, absolutely. You know what? If he never talked about anything,

but like ladies nights in weirdo towns, that's great. That's good radio. Alex Jones here. I bought an RV. I'm going to check out ladies night. Absolutely. How about it? Invade the ladies nights. Diners lies and drive-ins. That's what he's going to do it. And it's all lubies. Bad news about the lubies. Oh, no. It's closed down. So we have Alex just sort of bouncing around talking about topics. Sure. Gets into a little bit of floor ride stuff. Weirdo and nonsense. And when you're in the stores, you see the water for infants and the jugs. And it says fortified with floor ride. Yum, yum, yum. And then you look at the thousands of medical

reports about it attacks the brain development causes bone fractures contrary to popular belief. But I also would give that to them as well. And then you read Oldus Huxley's brave new world written in 1933. And he talks about a government plan to dumb down children at birth or in the womb to have a subclass of mindless idiots. So you can have a ruling elite who are more intelligent and can control the population. This is what feudalists have always done by trying to keep the surfs on tiny plots of land at subsistence level. So they're running so fast on the treadmill under malnutrition that they literally are retarded. We see this with the surfs of Japan of what we saw with the surfs of Russia. It's the same system, but now it's more sophisticated.

And you say, what a minute. Oldus Huxley. He was a fiction writer. Well, his brother was the first secretary general of a criminal organization that Bush just signed on to an increased funding for. He was the first secretary general in 1946 and was there for many years. Julian Huxley of UNESCO. And we've aired it here and I think we should air it again. The 45 minutes speech, the last speech that Oldus Huxley, brother of Julian Huxley, gave Berkeley University in California in 1962. And in the speech, he said that Brave New World was actually the government plan and that he had gotten it from his brother who was a government minister. That's a complete lie. That would have been a very important news item if he had deliberately revealed that

Brave New World is actually my brother's plan from the beginning. What a fucking lie. You can go and listen to Brave New World Revisited if you want. It's readily available online and at no point in it does Oldus Huxley say that Brave New World is based on a secret government plan his brother told him about, which he knew about because he was in charge of UNESCO. Nor does he cackle maniacally like the supervillain he would be if that were true. He does not. This is an absolute lie. And get this, Alex knows that it's a lie. I know that he knows that. Oh yeah. I can say that with confidence because he uses selectively edited clips of Brave New World Revisited in his documentaries and in order to get those clips that he uses, he would

have to be familiar with the larger context and he would have to know that he's creating a distorted manipulative image. Also, we've talked about this a hundred times in the past, but fluoride doesn't dumb children down. It's a positive and has dramatically reduced dental problems in this country, though there is definitely a concern about it having a dangerous effect in high enough doses. Sure. That's what the studies he's referencing are, which he's lying about to apply to the incredibly low amount that's in tap water. Alex has a lie about fluoride, which he can't back up if he's forced to actually get into the details about it. So instead of doing that, he just distracts with a side story about how the addition of fluoride in the water is just like

Brave New World. And did you know that the author of that book admitted that it's a secret government plot to dumb everyone down because his brother told him so? It creates a fun conspiracy for the listener to make themselves afraid of, but it's bullshit. Fluoride's terrifying. Now look over at these jangling keys. So Alex runs out of gas a bit about 40 minutes into the show. He's been talking about nothing. Yeah. More or less nothing. Sure. And par for the course. He decides I'm gonna go to calls. Oh boy. This was a mistake. That's not good because this first caller that he gets is itching for a fight. And this is this is very exciting. Let's do it. You know, we have this stretch of time where there's really not much

going on. And this is where I felt like business is really going to pick up this guy, this Canadian weirdo. I just it's more evil than I thought it could be. I didn't understand the depths of evil. I'm still plumbing them. And yes, I'm a deep diver. And yes, I've faced it. I have faced the matrix, folks. It is horrifying. The horror is that more of you aren't waking up quick enough. Let's just take some calls. I'll get back another news. Ed in Canada. Go ahead, sir. I'm one of your dissidents. So I hope you don't cut me off. Now go ahead. You know, I'm a Canadian who supports the US troops and the war in Iraq. And a lot of Canadians are in favor of it. And we're not a bunch of cowards. We did it in Vietnam also. You know, when your draft dodgers

came up here by the thousands, thousands of Canadians volunteered to fight in Vietnam, and they didn't have to. Did you know that? They joined the US Army and the Marines, and they fought in Vietnam. And here, when I listened to you, to you twisting and manipulating the news every morning, for instance, the biggest news story this morning was the killing of Saddam Stunt. Oh, that was coming up. So you apparently haven't heard about that or you don't want to hear about it. No, it was, it was, thank you for reminding me. It's right here in front of me. It was, in fact, it was two stories down. I would have gotten to it before the hour ended. Well, that was the biggest story. You took quite a time to get to it. One of these guys is

hold on. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, put him on, put him on hold. Don't hang up. Okay, weasel, weasel, weasel. So this is awesome. I can't even begin to describe how excited I was when I heard this caller. The last few days of the show have been a slog of Alex rambling about nothing. But this Canadian weirdo seems like the shot in the arm that Alex is going to need to get his game face on. It's a perilous situation sometimes listening to these callers. They almost always just agree with whatever Alex is saying, but in the cases where they disagree with him, they're often still assholes and wrong. That's the kind of situation we have here. This dude in Canada who's pumped about the Iraq war who wants to emasculate Alex for not

being manly enough to support it. Yep. Pretty fun. Yeah, that also kind of sucks though. And it was looking like I was going to have to side with Alex. Since obviously opposition to the war is the right position. I'm not going to be on team wars. Cool. But then the caller drops that fucking bomb on Alex's plate. This is like 40 minutes into the show. And as best as I can tell, Alex hasn't really covered any actual news. That's bad enough on a slow day, but Saddam's kids were killed that day. And I'm honestly not sure if Alex would have even gotten to that story if the caller hadn't brought it up. Alex's whole thing about Iraq is that Saddam has been secreted out of the country and is living on some island in luxury or possibly in Russia. So it seems like

it could be a little hard for him to decide where to land on this story. If he accepts that it really is Uday and Kusay who died, then he probably has some recalibration to do on his narrative. How are the listeners supposed to believe that Saddam was taken to a beach resort, but somehow his children were left in Mosul and killed in a firefight with US troops? That seems like a hard story to make stick. Conversely, on what grounds is Alex going to be able to claim some kind of conspiracy here? Does he go with like a body double theory? Or does he just deny that it happened? This is a piece of news that I can definitely see Alex being a bit reluctant to take his position on immediately because the implications it could have for other larger narratives about

the war are real and they're more important for him to protect. Yeah, you got to think about this one. I do love that the caller is forcing his hand on this issue, but I have to say it's very clear that this guy is probably a huge asshole. Oh, totally. So, although he did self-censor, he almost said, you're sure taking your sweet ass time about it. And then he was like, you are, you sure took your time to get there. Yeah. He's nothing if not Canadian polite. Yeah. Yeah. So, Alex, I'm a warmonger, but I'm going to say thank you and please. So, Alex calls him a weasel and is like, hey, hey weasel. Yeah, that's a good start. I'm going to rebut your points. Oh, here we go. And so here's the first attempt. Let's do it. Put him on hold. Don't hang up. Okay,

weasel. Let me counter what you're saying piece by piece here. Okay. Weasel. Piece by piece. Because you can make an accusation and I'm going to counter it at that point. Ron Paul, who served, what is it, two terms in tours in Vietnam as a flight surgeon. Okay. Front line. Ron Paul says the war's wrong and says it's a fraud. Now, I don't know about Mr. Bush, who only spent a year at the National Guard and then went AWOL. I don't know about the rest of his cabinet who were all either draft doggers or got deferments. Now, let's counter that first. Number two. So this really doesn't do much to counter what the caller said. The caller said that he was tired of Alex's anti-war talk and that Canadians are brave and go to war or something

like that. Right. Alex's rebuttal to that is to say Ron Paul was a doctor in Vietnam and he says the war is bad. That's basically an appeal to authority that's pretty much meaningless in this conversation. I was waiting for him to reply with, see the royal family owns all the tabloids. I'll tell you about Barnard and Beatrix. Saying that Bush dodged the draft is like, it's equally unimportant to the point that's going on. So far, this seems like a bit of flailing on Alex's part and possibly an attempt to pump up Ron Paul's military service credentials. Could be. So that's the first point. And then we get to the second point, which I guess is about the fact that Alex hasn't covered Saddam's kids. Number two. He went off into this whole

diatribe about how I didn't talk about Saddam Hussein's sons. Well, I guess I'm cursed with something. I have a long-term memory. I'm sorry. What? They killed chemical Ali. Nice little name they give him. And it turns out they didn't. They claimed that they killed Saddam not once, not twice, but three separate times and then said he was alive again because they know you need little mindless victory. So they give you false ones all week. Finally got Goldstein and then Goldstein's back. It's a 1984 illusion. I'm alluding to that. Excuse me. I'm alluding to it. This whole thing about, oh, they had a firefight and killed four people and they're sure that they killed these guys. I happen to remember Rumsfeld saying a week before the war,

they paid off the Iraqi leadership and they were going to lay down their arms. Where have I heard that one before? The leadership was flown out on jet aircraft. And according to the Russian and Iranian news, they were flown out to safety in Russia. So this smells of bullshit. Uh-huh. If Alex's position was that the globalists constantly report that people are dead but actually aren't, then he would have led the show talking about others as a big cover-up and that Uday and Kusey weren't really dead. He didn't do that and showed no indication of even being aware of the story until the caller brought it up. So to me, this sounds more like defensiveness. Alex does bring up some cases of misreporting that have happened

in the haze of war. In April, 2003, Ali Hassan al-Majid or chemical Ali was thought to be dead after his villa in Basra was the target of an airstrike. The New York Post reported on the situation and quoted Rumsfeld as saying, quote, we believe the reign of chemical Ali has come to an end. Additionally, they spoke to a major in the British third battalion parachute regiment who said they'd recovered, quote, a body that was thought to be Majid's. This looked like a fairly safe assumption to make given the information coming in, but it ultimately turned out to be wrong and that can happen when you're talking about casualties in the aftermath immediately of an airstrike. Right. With Saddam himself, there were instances of rumors of his death being reported

by Western news outlets, but I don't believe that it was ever officially said that he was dead. Like any like strong confirmation. I think somebody did start singing. It was something like chemical Ali. Evil is he. Now he's dead. Ali Ababa. I was doing it. I got there. I got there. Okay. So Saddam had a lot of enemies and it was in poor health, particularly in early 2001 when one of these rumors made the rounds. There was a part of this reporting. There's probably something of a psych warfare tactic meant to make Saddam look weak in a way that might inspire one of his rivals to be like, ah, now's the time to seize power. Not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but if that was the strategy, it kind of makes sense right in terms of that. Sure. In the

case of Uday and Kusay, this wasn't a rumor or a possible killing from an airstrike. This was on the ground fighting that happened and the troops released photographic evidence confirming that Saddam's children and one of his grandchildren were killed. Yep. US troops were also tipped off to Uday and Kusay's whereabouts by the guy who was letting them stay with him. So they had fairly strong intel even prior to going into the fight. Yeah, I can understand Alex's instinct towards skepticism, but it's leading him off track here into territory where he just assumes everything is fake without any justification. There have been a few instances of misreported deaths in the past, but that doesn't mean that every death that's reported as a fraud. And the only way you

can really tell is if you engage with the actual reporting. You can't engage at the current story by just yelling about things that have happened in the past because ultimately those things in the past don't have a direct impact at the present story. Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't stress that the cases that Alex is talking about being fake in the past and the case of Stombs kids, they're too dissimilar to equate to one another. Suspecting that someone was killed in an airstrike, like in the case of chemical Ali, is different than having intel that someone was in a certain place, finding them there and then getting into a gun battle with them. Right. It's very, very different. Ultimately, the feeling I get from this is that Alex didn't plan on talking about this story,

whether because he didn't know about it or because he didn't want to stake a claim. It feels quite strongly that this clip is essentially him talking around the issue in a way that allows him to call it fake later if he wants, but he doesn't have to commit to anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, I know I have to respond to this and I'm going to try and do as much as I can to like stretch it out. So maybe he'll quit and I can just stop talking about it. Right. Right. Or I'll be able to have time to think of something better. I have to defend myself from the assertion that I didn't talk about this and I don't want to make a definitive claim, perhaps. And so the way to defend myself is to be like, aha, I didn't talk about it because I'm too smart to talk about

it. Exactly. And that's kind of just, I don't know, it rings false. Yeah. It rings a little false. And then it gets worse because what he does is just try and shift the conversation. Yeah. And so don't sit here and claim that we're liberal socialists here because we're against your phony war. Ron Paul has the most conservative record, not rhetoric record, and he's against your phony war. Now what do you say to that, buddy? Alec, can I say something now? Yeah, well, no, no, no, you answer my questions. What about Ron Paul? He has a record, not a rhetoric. Now what do you say? Are you calling here? I heard his speech about neocon. Okay. That was yesterday. That was one that Alex read. Yeah. An entirety. Yeah. So exhausting. So Alex has made a pivot in this

conversation, and he's now baselessly insisting that the caller has called him a liberal socialist. This has the effect of taking the argument off of the territory where Alex really has nothing to say and transitions it into a framing where the caller is going to have to respond to Alex's straw man. You were saying we're liberal socialists for being against the war, but the most conservative person in Congress, Ron Paul is against the war. Are you against Ron Paul and thus not really conservative? It's a cheap game, but from a rhetoric perspective, it's a super effective debate tactic that Alex and a lot of other shitheads use constantly and personal insults will help keep people from recognizing the way Alex is presented to this caller. There's a yes

or no answer he can give that takes the conversation nowhere productive. It's essentially meaningless if it's conservative or liberal to be for or against the war, but this is the water Alex wants to swim in because that water is fucking shallow. To be honest, Alex is going to win this argument no matter what if it goes if it keeps going this way because this guy is going to have to defend the war and Alex can just yell over him at that point. Those are two gigantic hills that this caller has to climb and no one who thinks it's a good idea to call in fours is up for that kind of work. It's just not good. Although this caller gave me some glimmer of hope. Okay, because Alex is really trying to rattle him and to his credit, whether intentionally or not, this caller does the

one thing you can do in that situation. Okay, we're talking about reality here. Now is he a draft dodging liberal because he's against the war? I'm talking about you. Did you ever did you serve the military? No, I didn't. And let me give you another little news tip here. I'm not going to go serve under the UN and I'm not going to serve on these corporate wars. And they've got a hundred billion to 200 billion funding mercenary armies and they're hiring illegal aliens with criminal records now like Stalin did. Anyway, I was talking Hey, this is not a two year old discussion. I'm telling you the most conservative member of Congress says the war is wrong. So don't say you don't want to discuss that and call me a liberal. Lots of people say the war is wrong and others don't. Okay, good work.

Well, as usual, you can't you don't have any coaching points. So you can see something really remarkable happen there and I want to bring sharp focus to it. What Alex is doing is trying to rattle off as many talking points as he could and attempt to fluster the caller. The goal was to overwhelm him with things that he's expected to respond to. And if the caller tries to respond to any of them, hey, hey, well, there's that for Alex has a response preloaded. And even if somebody if he doesn't and the caller responds to something, Alex can just say like you didn't respond to all these other points that I made. Yeah, this caller did exactly the thing that Alex couldn't handle. And that's that he ignored all of Alex's distraction bait and kept the point that he was

kind of trying to make the caller never brought up Ron Paul or whether the war was conservative. That was all Alex trying to put a position on him. From everything I can tell the caller seems like he just wanted to argue with Alex about him being a coward and about how Alex weirdly didn't cover the story about Saddam Sons. That was his agenda. He's having a great time though. I'm certain he's a complete asshole. I applaud this caller for not taking Alex's bait and you can kind of see what happens at that point. Alex essentially deflates. He's like, okay, he says the caller doesn't have any cogent points, which really just means that Alex is disappointed that he didn't get to bicker about Alex's chosen points. And then Alex calls him a neocon, which

is the most dreaded insult on this show since like 2003. Yeah, that is worse than Democrat. Yeah. Yeah. This caller hasn't really brought up political labels at all. Almost everything you see going on is a piece of window dressing that Alex has set up in order for this argument to play out how he wants it to. And this caller isn't playing ball with that. Yeah. Which I think is fascinating. I still sucks though. I think it's fascinating that it seems as though he did settle on one position, which is Ron Paul is my shield. Alex. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, I don't even have it. If you want to get through me, you have to get through this rhetorical barrier. Totally. Ron Paul is the most conservative. So I don't even need to think about my position

right now. I've got Ron Paul as the shield. And then tomorrow I can come up with a good conspiracy theory. But right now Ron Paul is blocking. Well, Ron Paul is my shield. And then my distraction is this laundry list of all these other talking points about, I don't know, maybe I assume he's talking about black water. Yeah. I don't want to go to fight for NATO or UN. Yeah. So yeah, anyway, this caller stays on point and decides like, look dude, this is a dumb story. What about that? Let's do this. Come on, man. You gotta talk about this. Let's do this. Getting to the Saddam matter here. You told us that Saddam and his gang were flown out with millions in gold. And now here they are in Baghdad. Two of them dead. Have you noticed the approval

rating drops and suddenly they claim, now which time did they kill Saddam? They claim they killed Saddam and his sons three other times. And then later a month later quietly said it wasn't true. So I'm supposed to believe it this time. Well, this time they have the bodies. Oh, well. When you drop a bomb on a building, you could never be sure if you killed the person. But what about so now, so the government doesn't lie to us? Okay. Oh man, this is just humiliating for Alex. Yeah, he has so much nothing here. And you can tell by how desperate he is to force positions onto the caller. Alex really isn't making much sense with his insisting that the deaths of Stomps kids must be fake because there's been misreporting in

the past. So he decides to ascribe to the caller a position he didn't take that the government never lies to us. This is another instance of Alex using the same trick he tried unsuccessfully by appealing to Ron Paul. He wants the conversation to be on his term. So now he's trying to force the caller to make one of two stances. He can affirm the position Alex has forced on him and say that the government never lies to us. And then Alex can tee off about times the government's lied and then claim victory in the conversation. Or he can reject the position and Alex will have an inroad to say, so you admit the government lies to us now prove that this one isn't a lie. Exactly. Exchanges like this are really interesting to me because it's actually

really rare to see Alex's brain working like in this, in this sort of arena. Right. In the past, a lot of the callers you would get would be his fans or sometimes they'd just be annoying like the Republic of Texas people who have all declared themselves the president of Texas. Alex gets really mad about they won in the present day. This stuff never really happens at all. And if there's disagreement about something from a caller, Alex will just yell at them and hang up. It's rare that his actual debate techniques are on display. And if you pay attention to them, you can see that almost all of them are based in misdirection. He's trying to avoid any underlying argument. And I suspect it's because the points this caller brings up are a bit threatening to him.

For one, it is true that Alex never brought up Saddam's sons being killed, which seems like a mark against him as a journalist. Even if he thinks it's all fake, it seems like someone who talks about geopolitics on his show so much and who has a lot of thoughts about the Iraq war, it seems like they would bring up people saying that Saddam's kids are dead, but he thinks it's bullshit if that's his position. I mean, on the day that's probably the most important geopolitical news story. You bet. Yeah. Alex didn't do that, which is weird. Just weird. Secondly, it is true that Alex never served the country, which could be a sore spot for a lot of the military obsessed people in the audience. Alex was born in 1974, so he would have been 18 in 1992, and he would have

been eligible to go fight in Somalia or in Bosnia. I understand that he wouldn't have wanted to or might have even been philosophically opposed to it, but he wasn't even in something like ROTC in high school or when he was in community college. Alex's audience is particularly focused on the military, but only a part of that has to do with service to the country. The other part is kind of a cultural thing, where there's a distinction between the people who would sacrifice and subject themselves to a thing that requires such heavy amounts of discipline that it kind of sets you apart from people who didn't go through an experience like that. If I were Alex, I probably would prefer that this was brought up as rarely as possible, and this caller does seem to be hitting

some soft spots and not taking Alex's distraction bait. One of my points here is that Alex really actually isn't good at this. He's a bad debater if you're aware of just some of these really basic tricks he's trying to pull, and really most of the things he has in his toolkit are just yelling and hanging up on people. It's really interesting to see this. This is impotence in terms of like a back and forth. Yeah, I mean it's impotence in the sense of if the conversation itself was to have any meaning whatsoever, I mean it is also one of those demonstrations of how stupidity can appear to be authority, you know, where it's like the fact that he is the one in power, despite having nothing to say, he gets to say the last word every time. But there are ways

to diffuse both of these points easily without talking about Ron Paul without anything. You can say like you could talk cogently about his opposition to the war, his conscientious non-participation in war. Right. He could do that, and that would be fine. That would possibly alienate some people in his audience for whom military service is so important. Right. And maybe that's part of the reason why he wouldn't want to do that. I don't know, but he could do that, and he doesn't. Simultaneously with the story about Saddam's kids, look, I think obviously that's the biggest news story of the day. You would expect that a show like his would lead with that, but he could diffuse that instantly by just being like, look, I am allowed to lay out the

editorial structure of my own show the way I want to, and I understand that you think that this should have been brought up at the beginning of the show, but I have a method to how I'm doing things, and we are going to get to it. I appreciate you bringing this to the forefront. Sure. He could have done that very easily and diffuse this point entirely. Yeah. Or if he wanted to be full of shit, he could even be like, we have internal metrics. Most people tune in around the second hour. Exactly. Yeah. I was thinking that too. Yeah. He could do something like that and be like, sometimes we like to warm up at the beginning of the show. Maybe, oh, even how about this? A lot of affiliates don't pick up the first hour. Sure. That would work perfectly. Anything.

Anything. Anything. Anything. And instead, it's this mess of just half, half-assed sort of debate tactics. No. It's grim. I mean, if you wanted to really be like, fine, fuck you, let's go into my world, just be like, oh, you fought in Vietnam. How did that work out? Was that a good idea? That's a bad move because this guy probably would, but he wouldn't back down from that. Exactly. But think about how that turns from your service or any of that shit and takes it all back onto him. Right. It would, but then Alex would end up having to engage in some substance when the guy comes back at him. Sure. But you've got so many war crimes that the government lied about in Vietnam. But Alex wouldn't be able to engage with those in a meaningful way. He would

only be able to rattle off a bunch of vague pieces of information that he kind of remembers in that scattershot way that he did with the instances of his reportings of deaths. No, he wouldn't have done any better because he's just simply not equipped to be able to do it. Right. There are a million different ways to do it. Right. He just doesn't have a sword. Like, honestly, the better way Alex should do this is shock, jock shit. Like, he should just be like, you have the queen on your money. Totally. Totally. Just fight with the guy. Bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, cause engaging, but also not is transparent in terms of how bad he, a job he's doing. Yeah. And that is, you know, if you're paying attention to the show, Alex does

not come off well. No. Whereas he could come off really funny and also dismissive of this person's points. If you were just to like, all right, you want to fight? Let's fight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You fucking syrup boy. I'll be thinking about you. Yeah. Yeah. Something along those lines. Yeah. Why do you Dudley do right? Your motherfucker? Something. Yeah. Instead, it's just a, so, um, 9 11 comes up. Sure. What happened? Well, Alex has some ideas about what happened. Okay. These are also ideas he would not admit he supported in the present day. He'd like, I didn't say that. He didn't say any of this. You know, that whole Pentagon and 9 11 stories, which you claim never happened the way it did.

I never did that. Yeah. I never did that. I said all of them were remote controlled. All remote control. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, over 300 former top US generals and others met in Portugal for a 76 hour news conference last year and laid it all out. Yeah. Well, whitewash on these Islamic peace will murder holy shit. No, sure. Oh, you mean the ones that FBI informants and agents lived with and paid for their houses and their cars and their credit cards and they trained at US bases and all the public officials that got told not to fly that day or the CIA that put put options in on American and United or maybe you're talking about the US troops massing into Zika standard as big as stand, or maybe PMAC calling for terrorist attacks

behind the New World Order. You talking about all that? See, he's using that trick again. Totally. This is just a long list of tenuously connected talking points. Alex is able to pull out of his memory in order to try and overwhelm the caller and make it appear that he can't answer any of this stuff. But again, this doesn't have anything to do with the point of the call. This is 9 11 truth or stuff, which isn't really relevant to how Alex didn't join the military or how Alex didn't talk about Saddam's sons being killed. I will blame the caller for bringing up the 9 11 stuff though. So this is on him. Yes, exactly. It's his fault. This is on him. But again, this is an abusive debate tactic. Alex is using to try and make

sure the caller has nowhere to go and is boxed in. And the only thing that can really counter this is ignoring it all and staying focused on the point that you are discussing to begin with. That is the solution to this kind of a tactic. Just kind of brush it aside. It's meaningless. Well, substance wise, all Alex did was go. Great. You just ignore it. Distraction can only really be countered by staying on target. But all too often responding to one of the items in Alex's laundry list is just too tempting. The caller doesn't actually do either thing. He doesn't stay on message. And at the same time, he doesn't really respond to something Alex said. Instead, he chooses a new road to go down,

which I found a little bit confusing. And I think he's lost the thread. Okay, you talking about all that? And how about all those Canadian troops that are invaded the United States? What are you talking about? Oh, you're talking about now. What about your Canadian troops that got bombed by the speed freaks? We don't have any Canadian troops in your country. We don't even have any to protect. That was an official story of the CDC and the Associated Press. They signed the deal last year to bring in foreign troops to quote deal with Americans. There are no Canadians there. We're just trying to... Again, that's not true either. Hey, I suppose you think it's not true that the cable boxes have microphones and are hooked into the

government? I suppose that's a lie too. Not here they don't. Pardon me? Not here they don't. Oh, I'm sure they don't. Yeah, right. This caller was doing okay at dodging Alex's shit for a while, but I think he lost the plot now. He didn't get distracted by something Alex said though, which is weird. He distracted himself. Anyway, the call is basically over now. Alex has pimped the caller into a bunch of positions he didn't take. And the actual point of the call, it's been long forgotten by anybody casually listening to this show. Oh yeah, I have no idea what anybody's talking about at this point. If I hadn't have reminded a couple times, you probably legitimately wouldn't remember why this call was happening. I mean, did he just start referencing the War of

1812 when Canadian soldiers burned down the White House? Is that what he's going with? No, I think he's talking about Alex's theories about foreign troops. Oh, Alex had a... Oh, okay. I think that's what he's talking about. The UN bringing in foreign troops to the country. Gotcha. Alex's audience will just hear this exchange as a time when a Canadian who thought the government was always truthful couldn't handle any of Alex's points and thought Alex was a socialist called in and Alex schooled him. And that's the goal of these debate tactics that Alex uses. They create the impression if you're not paying attention that Alex is killing it. Yeah. And most of his listeners aren't paying attention. So they'll probably come away from that thinking like,

oh man, he nailed that. Yeah. I mean, it's always an unfortunate truth that debates are, despite supposedly being about words and ideas almost entirely about emotions. And a lot of optics stuff. Yep. It's a large part of why I think a lot of it isn't really worth engaging in. It's very stupid. So I thought this call was pretty much over because I felt like, well, we've completely gotten off the point at hand. And both of them have kind of gotten confused on their own. Yeah. But also, there's some insults that need to go around. Good. He was right. We're just you hate America. You're a traitor and a coward. That's what you are. Oh, sure. I am. Oh, yeah. What I'm doing is very cowardly. You hate your country. Yeah. Going up

against the New World Order. It's very cowardly. New World Order. I've heard about the New World Order 20 years ago from Tex Marz. I had every one of his books. You know what I did recently? I threw them all in the trash can. Tex Marz wasn't writing books about the New World Order 20 years ago. Tex Marz was a Tex Marz was an officer in the Air Force writing military policy books. I have listened and a space and aeronautics professor at the University of Texas. I listened to Tex Marz before you ever came on the air 15 years ago. He married me and my wife and I've had dinner with him and then go to his church. I read every one of his books and I finally decided that it's all come true and it's all come true and you're the coward. You're so afraid of this

New World Order. You're just going to deny it because you can't face the horror. This is pretty fucked up for a number of reasons. The first is that Alex is saying that he goes to Tex Marz's church and that Tex performed his wedding. I would have thought that Tex would refuse to do that wedding since Alex's first wife was Jewish and Tex is a huge anti-Semite. Well that also brings me to the big problem with Alex going to Tex's church. It's that Tex is a giant anti-Semite and his sermons were often really anti-Semitic. Alex is sort of right on a technicality though and that is that Tex was writing books going back to 1983 which would be 20 years prior to this show but his first book that he wrote with his wife and it was titled quote a perfect name for

your pet. This was not an expose on New World Order. He really should have stuck with that. That has legs. Four of them. A couple years later, Tex's output would change and he started releasing books with titles like Rush to Armageddon and Dark Secrets of the New Age. That was in 1987 so this caller is only a few years off but strictly speaking Alex is right. I'm not necessarily bringing that up to Pat Alex on the head. I'm pointing this out to illustrate that I think Alex knows a whole lot about Tex Mars and he's a big fan of his work. When I say the Tex Mars was a giant anti-Semite for his whole career I mean that. He was a bigot early and two of the books he released in the years before his death were titled quote DNA Science and the Jewish Bloodline

and quote Holy Serpent of the Jews. The Rabbi's secret plan for Satan to crush their enemies and vault the Jews to global dominion. Yeah he was an anti-Semite and he was about 16 feet tall so and he was a like he's heavily influential in a lot of the right-wing circles in a way that a lot of them definitely will not admit nowadays. Alex would not talk about how influential and important Tex Mars is in 2022. No I don't think many of them want to lay claim to their intellectual forebears if you will. No but in 2003 it was a little bit less problematic for Alex to be upfront about these associations and these like sort of places where his intellectual lineage comes from. Couldn't get kicked off Facebook at that point. Yeah Tex Mars is a disgusting bigot and I appreciate

how much more forthcoming Alex is about being one of his followers at this point. I'd get into this more deeply but I have some thoughts about doing a larger series on Tex so that might be something that we deal with at that point. Yeah. Also I sure hope that Alex doesn't ever find out what Tex Mars thinks of his buddy Ron Paul the most conservative member of Congress. I'm a believer in Jesus and what the Bible says that takes priority over all things. You can talk about your left wing right wing conservative liberal libertarian democrat republican and you can take them as far as I'm concerned put them in a toesack and throw them in hell. I'm going to talk today about truth and I'm going to expose the legionnaires of Sodom. You say but you don't understand Ron Paul

he's for abolishing the Fed. He's a conservative he's doctor no he's a he's nothing but a bunch of pander he's a panderer to the homosexuals a panderer to homosexuals. Okay yeah yeah uh Tex Mars not not a fan of Ron Paul that comes from a what was the title of that sermon Ron Paul is a take away my tax exempt status Ron Paul is a pro homosexual pervert is the title of that so okay oh boy yeah there's a Tex Mars bit of a mess yeah yeah bit of a hater in both of the sense of the you know sort of colloquial term and also one who hates yeah he sure does yeah so um after the call uh Alex debriefs because I think he you know he went through something there. Thanks a lot for the call well there you have it ladies and gentlemen you're welcome to call back any time Ed

and I called you one name you called me about 10 I apologize for calling you a name I just it's hard to deal with folks she uh you notice the compartmentalized thinking and mindset there he could not focus in on key points he had to just name call and have an emotional spasm that is just projection they both called each other a bunch of names that definitely was not one-sided and for the most part it was Alex who refused to stay focused on any one topic he was the one doing the shotgun blasts of a million topics and talking points and you know what I think that Alex was also the one who was acting emotionally his emotional outbursts might not have been as theatrical as they are in the present day but when this caller you know

it brought out something from Alex and it wasn't analytical no there was a there was not a composed person just methodically going over the facts that was a guy lashing out but doing so using shady rhetorical tricks to make himself seem composed while doing it right no what happened was the guy said something and he was like I'm not ready for this so he was be he was afraid right and then that fear led him to feeling angry uh right and that anger leads to hate all right and that hate that's the dark side baby and the dark side is the mind that's where you so um Alex is kind of focused on this call for a bit the political process is designed to switch off your thinking process the left right paradigm is phony and I just got called the liberal in the

last hour no you didn't because I support Ron Paul the most conservative member of congress against the phony wars Alex is building up this way for his audience to remember and have experienced the call that doesn't match up with what the call actually was yeah and that's kind of a tell tale sign that Alex recognizes that he kind of whiffed kind of kind of dropped the ball on that one yeah I mean generally uh there was this book that really had a lot about that because what would happen is you know something would happen and the government didn't want you to remember it the way that it happened they wanted you to remember it the way that it should have happened I'm sorry I was distracted there are you talking about men in black I think so yes it's a real dystopian kind of tactic if

you will if you know what I'm saying yeah might be something that uh real smart people would have written about so we most of the rest of this show is Alex interviewing his friend George Humphrey um who we've talked about a bit in the past he's a weirdo but he's kind of boring uh not really that I I don't even know how to describe like the kind of boring he is he doesn't take big swings that's for sure not really no and it's kind of just another Alex kind of like a less interesting Alex being interviewed by Alex himself yeah and I I don't really care all that much but there are a few clips okay of things that happen um and the first is how pathetically Alex has to start off the interview by complaining about that last caller uh George I know you can tune into the show I

know you listen quite a bit did you hear the guy in the last hour say that I'm not patriotic because I'm not for inviting all these countries and Alex first of all it's good to hear your voice and good to talk to you this morning and Alex you and I both have been been charged it and several times with not being patriotic oh didn't that caller do me dirty oh George comfort me about this caller who George George look I my dad's not here to call me a good boy so can he might not anyway yeah well he hasn't for a long time that's because he's psychic and you know is that I'm gonna try and kill him with COVID there is there is a lot of that to be said so yeah it's just there's a obsession with trying to do aftercare about this this call and it's just bizarre tell me how right I am tell

me how good I am tell me tell me tell me so they take some calls Alex and George and this caller brings up something that I think Alex should say you need to get help um whatever you're imagining you're experiencing you're not I'm guessing Alex does not say that he doesn't know and uh also if I could make another point just real quick uh I've been speaking out in my area against this whole new world order thing and some things that I I know because I was in the military and I've been constantly harassed because of it there's been black helicopters flying flying around there's people have come up to me I'll just be going to the supermarket or something they'll say hey you need to stop talking about this we know where you're at we know where your family's at

and I came home the other day and they were putting anthrax in my house the US military was and they tried to say that they that they were just there checking on some things because people had reported that I had guns or something like that that I wasn't supposed to have saying I had munitions that I wasn't supposed to have and they were putting things in my house well let me break that down this is happening to you this is the vast minority they do this so it's talked about so it scares people let me break down and they haven't caught doing this what they have been wow yeah sir sir please there it sounds like outside of your mind people are concerned about you probably you know maybe um you are somebody who has some military service in your past and maybe you have some

illegal weapons and maybe you're telling people all about alex jones and black helicopters flying all over your house they're telling you you need to calm down oh boy man but yeah the military put anthrax in his house and everybody is gang stalking him that is so like I mean can you imagine if they read it like if ken keezy wrote one flew under the cuckoo's nest and nurse ratchet was like yeah man all that shit you believe is real dude this isn't an insane asylum they're trapped in all of us in here man this is fucking crazy I mean to some degree that's that's kind of what he's doing yeah like I don't know I feel like you have a responsibility towards towards folks at least some degree of it yeah and especially when it's public yeah like a private conversation

I think you still have that responsibility but when it's publicly broadcast I just think that what you're doing is modeling that it's okay for people to experience these delusions and not to be like not to recognize the people around them might be concerned about them yeah and there might be good reason no it's just it's shit it keeps people trapped it's giving a blackout drunk the gift of a gallon of whiskey and being like hey man you're more fun when you drink and it's like you're you're killing this person yep so um Alex has some news also on this episode not about spain bombings nor about Saddam's kids okay um but it is about some proposed amendments to the patriot act and Alex is really really excited about this and there's a twist at the end of this

okay we got in caught coal he said there wasn't a patriot act too then he had to admit it talking about as cross introduced in a sentence seven times and 18 days ago okay we've been covering it since day one in january six when it came out I wrote the definitive analysis of it not bragging just fact please go read it in four wars dot com then check it in the bill for yourself we have a link to below the story uh so here it is you know we told you about secret executions you couldn't believe it now it's been in a hundred newspapers us and now those death chambers for anyone that commits any crime justice department four weeks ago before the congress enthusiastically said we'll use it for all crimes against misdemeanors uh that was the head of the justice department

policy there in the report I mean this is happening we just take the time out to research this they count on you to know all the baseball and football statistics but to not know about the the facts of this just shift into this and learn this like you did football scores and you'll know about the new world order please focus your energies into real stuff folks here it is and i'm not bashing sports in and of themselves but the but the mindless knowing all the statistics of that not this will destroy you and your family proposed amendments of us a patriot act and the following is representative bernie sanders independent vermont bill that would amend the us a patriot act this bills and mirror modifications and removes section 215 and it's hr 1157 and uh it's the armed

and to amend the foreign services valence active exempt bookstores libraries from orders are crying the production of any tangible things for certain foreign intelligence investigations because it's all about domestic uh so there's that it's so weird that you can ignore someone's socialism when it's convenient i mean this is just another one of those things where you're like everybody likes bernie do you know why because if you maintain good consistent ideological positions from start to finish and you act in accordance with those regardless of whether or not people are lying about you because if you do this chances are you actually kind of are above the left right paradigm then everybody winds up being like wow that's right good call it's it's so

weird for alex to like constantly be going on about like how socialists are the devil and left wing people are the devil and then the person in congress that has seemed to side with alex's shit a bit more than anybody else is bernie yep whether it's through this opposition exactly yep there are like those are like basic ally things that alex should be able to recognize like yeah hey this this socialist seems to i mean i think the most ironic thing is that early on he's talking to a canadian and he's assuming that the canadian is calling him a socialist because he's against the war and then later he references that one thing he's for is a socialist center who is against the patriot act so it's kind of like you know the shoe fits i was gonna go with dumb oh well

there's definitely that so speaking of dumb we got one last clip here and i mean it just sort of fits another bit of a little bit of a pattern on this episode and that is dumb predictions now while bush's approval ratings were up to about 84 percent they have been coming down they hit the all-time high of 95 percent yeah and i think they're at about 58 percent right now uh actually in their mainstream polls overall he's at 53 a lot of polls show 45 so whatever the number is but as soon as the number gets down below the magical number of 45 percent is that they are going to start initiating and they've already got this planned is i do not think that they will do i think that there is going to be some sort of what is called an nbc nuclear biological or a chemical

attack to create fear far has said dallas cleveland denver will be hit yeah and the fact is is that these people operate off the fear of the american people and it would be so easy for them and i think that they will wait until the end of this year or early next year to institute another event they didn't uh didn't happen and good like go fuck yourself with this they operate off fear i mean come on man you do that's you know like the constant obsession and preoccupation with this imminent fake constant cat is about to die everyone's about to die all the time but also it's not like they're gonna blow up a building it's a nuke everywhere or a biological attack of course smallpox getting released yeah you're not gonna get hurt you're gonna choke to death and

gas and everyone will everyone you know will yeah this this is this is for your run rough shot is is the way that they operate and you see it constantly um and it's just it's it's it's offensive yeah and there's so many people that you really do like oh you actually do believe that but not because it's true it's because that's the only way you think you can't imagine somebody operating in any other facet because that's the way you operate so if you operate that way and you're the smartest person in the world obviously then clearly your enemy must operate that way because if they're smart then that's the way you do it it can't be that i'm a big dumb dumb manipulating and exploiting people and in fact hurting the people it's that they're dumb and exploiting people

and they think you're dumb exactly yeah anyway i think there's a lot of projection which again i mean it's the exact same thing that alex did in the aftermath of that fateful call from canada projecting all of his own deficiencies and and bad behaviors onto the caller although the caller was guilty of a few of them yeah um i don't know i i found that to be a really rewarding uh thing to hear alex's alex's call some of those are fun i don't yeah i don't think you're able to get those in the present day anymore no that's why it's kind of nice to dig for a little bit of gold like that even though you got to sit through hours of nothing to get there yeah um so yeah i think this breaky in the past was was was earned by alex's present day behavior zero

transphobia uh-huh that's a good not even on his mind no i know i mean of course it's there undercurrent but he doesn't have to say it well i mean it's it probably much like saddam's son's being killed he's probably not aware that trans people exist exactly because he hasn't been told to be mad about it yeah ain't that the truth right it's uh you know there's there's so much that should in theory be like long-standing things that he i mean he says they are right whether it's claus wab or fouchy or gates right like there and there's so much of that whether it's people who are supposed to be villains or cultural issues that he's decided are are staging fronts of the the culture war it's all just it doesn't matter it doesn't that stuff doesn't

exist here he's mad about neocons i mean he is right though i do remember that in 2003 the cups went to uh the playoffs that year they didn't make it go go go that was the national championship series that was a good one h car go what do you say god's gone i'll win moise salud you know he used to pee on his hands yeah made him stronger that's what moise salud did he didn't wear batten gloves why isn't alex covering this i don't know it's a huge story in 2003 it seems like a scandal there's hand pisser he's out there trying to give himself superpowers by pissing on his hands son of a bitch alex talks about pissing all the time you think that'd be anyway maybe on our next episode we'll find talking about moise salud and his piss games wouldn't that be fun would be

anyway um we may stay in the past i'm not sure i don't know i haven't decided yet we'll find out if i want to if i want to talk about the present day i don't know we'll see anyway we'll be back and we'll find out uh but until then we have website we do it's knowledge fight dot com yep we're also on twitter we are on twitter it's ad knowledge underscore fight and that go to bed jordan yep we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm dzx clark i'm dr marbles and now here comes the sex robots andy and chansas you're on the air thanks for holding so alex i'm a first name caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you