Knowledge Fight - #664: Formulaic Objections Part 5

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Today, Dan and Jordan discuss the deposition of Infowars Managing Editor Kit Daniels in his lawsuit regarding his misidentifying of the Parkland shooter.  Plus, plaintiff's attorney Bill Ogden joins the gents to discuss the act of deposing Info-Warriors

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George knowledge fight. I need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy and Kansas you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello Alex and Mr. Sting calling. I'm a huge fan and love your work. Knowledge fight. Knowledge fight. I love you. Hey everybody. Welcome back knowledge fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're couple dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh indeed we are Dan. Jordan. Jordan. Quick question. What's your bright spot today? My bright spot today is actually a continuation of the last bright spot. The people have responded quite well

to the notion of a mustard. Of a year of a mustard. Yeah. Which is actually maybe not a bright spot. Maybe it's the worst possible outcome. But I do appreciate it. Also someone tweeted at us a picture of hot day and the mustard man. Oh yeah. I saw that one might be my monitor for the year of the mustard. It'd be hot day and the mustard man. I feel like I have to follow you to some sort of hidden pathway if you're hot. The mustard man. Right. You're going to have to choose your own condiment to celebrate a year of I feel like I'm going to be eating with a condiment. Are there any condiments that you would choose to take like sample varieties of for a year like there's there's probably not enough catch ups. You know I mean here's here's what I would say salad dressing

what would I call them spicy spicy the Asian sauces. Okay. What do I what do I like a sweet and sour kind of sauce combined with like you know all of those varieties. I don't know what I would call that as a category. Exactly. But I would like all of them. Okay. Well that's your year. That's my year. We're going to find a way to make a name out of that. So thank you all for enabling me. Yes. I think that's kind of the problem here. So what about you. Well I mean it's not like my bright spot is not going to be like a Will Smith. Some shit. No absolutely not. It's mustard. I didn't want anything. I definitely don't want mustard. My bright spot is somebody very kindly. They they didn't leave their name on the note but they very kindly sent me some

black bean coffee and chocolate. Oh yeah I tried some of that chocolate. Oh delicious. Yeah absolutely fantastic. The coffee is fantastic. You don't like anything other than Folgers. We've established no I love coffee. I just drink so much of it that I might as well survive cheaply. All right. You drink a pot of coffee a day and Starbucks will catch up to you real quick. It will. Also Folgers sucks. Well you drink a pot of it a day and you'll get used to it. Anyways it's very nice. That chocolate was really good. Thank you very much for the wedding present. I only have one thing to say which is stop it. OK. But I appreciate it. Sure. I wish I had that on hand. It really would be valuable. Yeah. Well that's great. Yeah. And thank to them for also. I mean it rolled downhill

and I got to eat some of that. Yeah. Well naturally. So Jordan today we have a very we have a holiday. We do the show. People will be very excited. Yes. Yes. To learn that today we have two depositions over another formulaic objections episode for y'all and it's it's there's a lot of there's a lot to get into. So I think we should not kill any more time here and let's get down to business. Let's go. Whoa. What's that. We have to say hi to some. Hold on. I think we do. Yeah I think that's that's that's called four. So first a upnick into Yorkshire 이�hel or some thing. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Next more QA and knowledge fight crossovers exclamation point. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a

policy wonk. Thank you very much. Oh next Jordan is my favorite author. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. My dog is a policy waunk. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Like out next Bret and Paul are besties. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Correction Paul and Brett are besties. Oh okay. So Brett may not be as into it as Paul is. You never know. Yeah it's possible. Also we got a technocrite in the mix and I have news on the other side of this but hello my name is Eric and I tried to get the daddy shark back. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrite. I'm a policy wonk. I have risen above my enemies.

I might quit tomorrow actually. I'm just going to take a little breaky now. A little breaky for me and then we're going to come back and I'm going to start the show over but I'm the devil. I got to be taken out of here. Fuck you. Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you but at the end of the day fuck you in your new world order and fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit. Maybe today should be my last broadcast. Maybe I'll just be gone a month maybe five years. Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow and you never see me again. That's really what I want to do. I never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. I'll be better tomorrow.

We will not know if he's better tomorrow because today we will be hearing nothing from Alex. Zero Alex info but the news is I've decided what's that I will be a benevolent podcast and Eric is asking for daddy shark to come back. Yes of course I will I will honor this on the six hundred sixty six so episode six sixty six. Alex is coming back and will bring back everything we do is so arbitrary right. Yep it's I think that preparing this podcast is a brutal endeavor that is not fun a lot of time and so I must amuse myself with years of mustard and dangling daddy shark drops so that that is coming. It's beautiful so Jordan today we have two depositions to go over. We're going to be talking about one with Kit Daniels indeed who is a editor

and writer for Info Wars website right not an on air personality although I definitely have seen him in some videos in the past but not regularly loose definition of writer. Yes and that is an issue that is going to come up. Yeah to this so that is a deposition that is related to the Marcel Fontaine case which is a case where Kit Daniels wrote an article and posted it on Info Wars where he misidentified the Parkland shooter based on a picture that he found on 4chan right and this is delved into that position. Yes and then the second deposition is Owen Troyer's deposition in the Sandy Hook case in Texas and so these are the two that we're going to get into and interestingly these are depositions that Mark Bankston didn't take. No he wasn't him. It was not

the lawyer who was giving these and actually it's well it's Bill Ogden his co-attorney for the plaintiffs and so you know in our in our past episodes you know the last few at least you know we have some deposition stuff to talk about sort of been our pattern to talk to the attorney who's giving the who's holding the deposition and inexplicably they want to talk to us. It's very bizarre but that luck has got to run out. No absolutely. I mean like there's no way that Bill would want to come and have a conversation with us. Let's be honest we're kind of uninteresting. Yeah. Hey folks hello we're here joined to start off this this episode before we get into these these these depositions here that we have in front of us another formulaic objection.

Everybody loves depositions. They can't get enough of them. What a weird world we live in where our fans are like holy shit a deposition. Yeah it's watch out. It's like a big deal that it's I don't know why but I don't know why either but it's fantastic. Yes and speaking of fantastic we are joined today to talk about this a little bit. We've had the other counsel for the plaintiffs of course on Mark Bankston right a couple of times right talking about these here depositions but this time we've had the other counsel in the case. Bill Ogden joining us. Thank you so much. Bill how are you today? Hey long time listener first time caller. I'm a big fan of what is now probably the most listened to legal podcast. So you know thanks for having me guys. You know

I think our pals at opening arguments might have a they might be pissed. Yeah you have touched on a really good point though and that is that we screwed up by putting our podcast in the comedy and news sections of iTunes. 100 percent. We should have chosen something else that we could be like at the top. We're the number one law. Yes. A wandering vagabond of different genres of podcast. You know the most versatile. Yes. We are not the best point guard not the best center but we're in all around. Yep. Kind of. Oh yeah. Six man. Six man. We're bam out of bio. That's how we do it here. Depthless shrimp. Depthless shrimp. Yeah well I don't know if I would go with the shrimp but. By all the by all the reference. So Bill we were thrilled to talk to you a little

bit before we get to this episode because we're listening to two depositions that you actually were in charge of and were handling and what would it be presenting. What would the word be. Interrogating. Yeah but yeah it turned out pretty much as an interrogation but yeah the lawyer will take a deposition the witness will give a deposition. So I took these two depositions. And did you ever you took them. I did. I did. It's some of my better work. I don't know. You took those depositions from behind my friend. I was thinking about this. I went to Austin. I met you and Mark and came along to the Alex and Daria depositions and both of those Mark was taking and I saw his style and you know he is kind of like a more like a

jocular kind of style. There's a little bit of a friendship thing and some playing around and I watched these depositions and I realized like I would be so much more scared of being across the table from you. I think Mark will mess you up too but. Oh no absolutely but he will make you like it while he does. Yeah there are questions that you asked like Kit and Owen that I just see like oh no no no no no no. Yeah there's no definitely I and I tell witnesses in these cases I've told witnesses especially ones that have been deposed by Mark and then are now being deposed by me or if we have a witness go day one and I'm I'm doing the day two depots I'll tell the witness like I'm just letting you know now Mr. Bankston wasn't very pleasant yesterday

and he's the nice one of us. Like I was straight up just telling you know I. Training day style Denzel Washington. I do. I just don't want them to be caught off guard when it happens. You know I just say it's coming just if you got to do something you might want to hydrate so. So we have we have these two depositions here today we have Kit Daniels deposition and an Owen Troyer deposition and the thing that's kind of weird about this is these are from two different cases. Right so Owen's case Owen was deposition was for the Hesslin case where he went on air and said what he said about Neil's son and that kind of thing. And then Kit was the person at Info Wars that wrote the article that started all of this. He wrote the article about

Marcel Fontaine who's an individual in Massachusetts who they pinned his photo and said this is the Florida Parkland High School shooter that just massacred a bunch of kids in Florida. So that case the Florida case we filed first and from the media attention that we had no idea was coming from all of that we got contacted by the Sandy Hook parents and that's kind of where the chronological order of how this all came about. That is that is kind of remarkable. Yeah I mean I can't imagine being Kit Daniels and and like recognizing exactly what a dumb fuck up you made that took down all of Info Wars. And he's like he was he's very critical at least answering my questions. He was very critical of himself at this point. I was like yeah one to ten rated it

and he's like two. I'm like in my response like really what's the one. I straight up and it wasn't like planned and I was you know some would say it was a bit unprofessional but hey that's just but he said two and I just was like really like what's a one. Like this is as bad as it gets. Well I mean one would be like broken sentences. Yeah I mean the word is actually lighting on fire as you write them you know. Yeah or he actually used white font on a white background so it was just a blank piece of paper. I guess would be a one for him. They forgot to cut up the slurs. That's not going to that's not going to trigger a litany of litigation against his company so you know but hey I guess that's better than this. That's so wild though to think about like this

just kind of dominoing effect you know like Kit Daniels wrote this article and that led to the Marcel Fontaine being defamed and the starting of this trial which leads to the Sandy you guys representing the Sandy Hook folks which leads to that but even think like the further back because the Fontaine stuff was based on him reporting on like troll shit from 4chan so whoever posted that actually is responsible for taking down Alex. Yeah and you can't you can't just go back you gotta go keep going forward because then it triggered these lawsuits and here I am talking to you guys so you know. Wait so here I am congratulating Jordan I believe you just got married yes I did. We can thank Kit Daniels for that congratulations. Wait you might not be married

if it wasn't for Kit Daniels. If it weren't for Kit Daniels I think this all makes sense now. I'm pretty sure that logic follows. This is the problem with us just watching knowing. Yeah the determinism aspect of it is getting. The only way this could be better is if it was Kit Daniels first day that would be the greatest moment like the very first thing he wrote on his first day was this. Yeah that'd be beautiful. Unfortunately made many errors prior. Yeah one of the things that kind of shook me a little bit was when I was watching that deposition he's Kit Daniels seems a little bit older than I expected. I kind of. Yeah I think he's 37. He was older than I am which I was kind of caught off guard by as well.

Wait wait I'm 37. But you also. Dan's older than you are I'm kind of caught off guard by that to be honest. I am like 34 years young. I have really fucked up my life. Oh I know. Look at us both and work backwards. But I think I'm better than Kit Daniels at least. True. I wasn't in that deposition room. I'm not keeping score here but I don't think it's close here. I'd always pictured him as kind of like a maybe mid to late 20s guy because he has like a sort of a youthful naivety to him in the times that I've seen him on video on infowars before. But then seeing him in that room there was a you know obviously a longer face and certainly not having

fun maybe that ages you a little bit. That would probably age. I will say this you can be a certain personality in life or in your professional career and whatnot but when you when you walk into the deposition room you ask where where do I sit and they point to the head chair. It kind of kicks in and then when that court reporter tells you to raise your right hand it's like oh my god what am I doing here. And so it gets life gets real real fast and I'm just like oh this is another day in the office but everybody else is just like because there's not you're looking right at a giant camera lens that's just directly on you and you've got lawyers just spit firing questions and somebody's asking an objection. You don't know what's going on but

you know you don't want to answer that really hard question at this time. And like you have lawyers who have probably poorly prepared you like certainly number of infowars past lawyers probably didn't tell people exactly like here's what it means to be under oath. Yeah totally here's what a corporate representative does. And that actually leads us to another interesting point and this is very important and that is that you Bill were the person who took Rob Dew's legendary deposition. I did. So my role at the firm when I came in I started looking you know they hired me right out of law school and when I came well actually I worked there for a year and a half during law school and then they offered me a job and so I started looking around

to see what can I master that can bring value to the firm. Crushing dorks. To an extent yes that's actually what I do. So 30B6 is what we call it which is a corporate representative depot and so I just kind of mastered meticulously going through topics and making the person just look really unprepared. And with these topics it wasn't hard because there's just no way. There's so many false claims and just kind of bullshit being thrown around that no one could know and get a grip on all of it. And even if they could like sincerely answering a lot of those questions would just kind of reveal more questions of the ineptitude and unpreparedness probably. Oh yeah answering them is worse than not knowing. At this point just if they knew the answer and had to say it out loud

that would be worse than them not being prepared to be sanctioned to a hundred thousand dollars. It's like Zug Spang in chess or whatever it is. I learned one thing. Exactly. What kind of what kind of preparation did you or I suppose I mean I assume that this type of deposition is a little bit different from the ones that maybe you're used to in a regular non-info war setting. Did you do like more preparation for this or? Oh well I'm pretty prepared on every case but for this one specifically when when Mark came into the case he came to me because I've been watching Alex Jones's college and not as necessarily as a fan more entertainment and so I he and I had had conversations you know in the past about it.

He was like hey you want to you want to do this with me. I'm like absolutely no questions to ask let's go. And so my first job I made partner I think during this case like two years ago but I was an associate when I first came in and my first task was like here's 200 hours worth of video. I need you to watch it and kind of document everything that goes on and so like I started going through it and I was probably like two or three or four days in and Mark came into my office and he was like what are you looking at? And I was like hey what a this gulf of Tonkin thing. And Mark was like Mark had seen my face. I was like drained and and because the way it happens he's just spit firing so much information from so many directions. It really did kind of start

messing with my head. I had to stop. Mark was like you gotta stop you gotta take a step away. So I took like two days off and I went back into it and I was like okay yeah I'm back. Yeah Jordan tried to give me to take a couple times a couple days off a while back. Didn't stick. Did not stick. I gave him my best shot. Yeah it was definitely an experience and Mark was like kind of concerned like dude did they get to you? Like you know like what happened? You've been brain snatched. And I was like it really is like the the stylistic approach that they use of just different topics completely that aren't related that are just getting thrown in your face. It's like you know somebody tossing a bucket of hot dogs into into your face and they're all just

hitting in different areas and bouncing different directions. And so you can't to digest it. It's tough and so instead you just kind of keep absorbing. Yeah especially if it's like the topic is something scary. It kind of overrides your ability to keep track of like oh eight. You just jumped from A to H. What is going on here? And then H back to B and then now we're X. What's going on? Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah and so so I did all that a document. So from there I had a pretty good grasp on the case and then Mark is you know just so we're clear. Mark's 100% the smart one of our group. Like he's he's the brains. I'm you know I would I guess I default to the looks but you know I'm like a seven on the birthday. Six if I'm in California. So you're

aggressive I think. Yeah I'm definitely the aggressive one and and I don't like taking zoom depots which are like COVID made those a thing and a defense attorney asked a defense attorney asked me one time. He said why don't you like taking zoom and I was like well because I've never lied to your face. And he just looked at me like well did you lie to me on the phone? And I was like I'm not saying anything else. I'm just saying I've never lied to you straight to face. And there's like you know there's so yeah I'm definitely the the bully of the group I guess like when somebody needs to you know when a bully needs to get you know humbled I guess I'm the person that comes in and and takes care of that. Mark can do it and he does it in a in a very

articulate way and he's smart enough to maneuver you into it. You don't even know you're hurting your case by the time you're saying your answer where I'm just asking it in a way that is impossible for you to answer and you're like you're the cuck destroyer destroyer. Right right so yeah if the double name I'm not the not cuck destroyer. Right exactly. And I think I think probably too like that being in the room you know being in person as opposed to over zoom like there's so many of those other aspects like what you mentioned of like you're sitting at the head of this table you have that camera in front of you and other people are in the room like I imagine that's just like a completely different vibe than if it is. It really is there's an intensity to it

and to which I thrive in because you know I have no problem just staring someone down with eye contact dead silent it's awful this shit I know it they know it they're like what do I do and so then they'll try to you know make a noise to fill that void and I'm like no no no no no let's sit in this let's enjoy this. This is basically you're describing like the Errol Morris philosophy of like filmmaking you know just like make people stare at a camera and eventually they'll say something that they shouldn't. Yeah exactly and and so like I use my my techniques of kind of so West Ball and Cal Phara you know started our firm when they were like 31 or 32 and they were you know rolled the dice they took all the risk they they were they're fantastic

lawyers and so I've wasted so many years so many years you're fine you're doing great. They're about 10 years they're everybody's 10 years older than me. Mark Westcull and you know and David at the firm are all they're older and so I came in and I had the benefit of one riding their coattails they were already super successful I didn't have to sweat a line of credit if whether or not I could pay employees like they did all the hard work and so I got the benefit of learning under them and so I just took certain aspects from each of the lawyers that I could I mean kind of molded it into my own little little stylistic approach to it and it's I feel like it's been pretty successful so far you can ask I guarantee you Kit and Owen think so. Yeah which of which

of those other partners taught you about snack preparation? So that's actually West Ball it's not necessarily snack you'd actually probably been pissed like if I was an associate and I pulled out a bag of gummy bears during a deposition you'd be like what the fuck are you doing? But uh I making making people uncomfortable when you're asking them uncomfortable questions makes them just want it to end so they give you whatever they they know what you want and if they're uncomfortable they're just going to give it rather than playing this line of things where they you know ask your question again I don't understand what you're asking that that kind of thing um and so yeah Jordan what you can't see on the depots is I pull out a giant I stop at

Bucky's which is a very famous gas station that's the size of a Walmart in Texas and they're kind of there's one right between Houston and Austin that's why I stop and I buy this giant bag of gummy worms and so like during the depot I just open them up while they're asking questions and I'll like hold it up to the light I'll like eat it and like I use it as a in the and then I'll look over the witness and they're just staring at my hands they're you know looking at this gummy bear and I'm you know I'm just chowing down on them it actually the one thing that was bad was like Daniel Greg's southern accent in that movie 100% so I actually stole that from uh there's a real famous criminal defense lawyer in Texas very famous and he would take a paper clip while the the the other

side was doing their opening statement and he would slowly make straighten it all the way out and this was back when you could smoke indoors you know a cigs inside that's what I think that's what Frank guys call these days um but he would take a straight paper clip and then he would slide it down the the cigarette and he would light it and then he would smoke it in the the ash wouldn't fall and so the jury would just stare at that instead of paying attention to the other side's opening statement because they're waiting for this long cigarette ash to drop and it doesn't and he's just you know going at it and I heard that story one time and I was like that's kind of cool to do and so I uh I kind of that's that's where it started and then I incorporated the awkwardness

into it see I feel like that that's a great trick that that's like sleight of hand yeah screwing with people's attention whereas like the gummy bear is just aggressive like that's just like it's menacing it's just to let you know I'm I'm so comfortable that I'm gonna like this is not uncomfortable for me it is you're dying inside it would be very threatening I mean it's it's funny now but if if I was in a room with you while you were doing that god I would just call you a prick non-stop like it would I wouldn't be able to answer a question I'd just be like can you get this prick to stop eating these fucking worms but imagine a scenario where you can't do that yeah exactly you have to answer question well then I'm in trouble right then you're just sitting there

dying inside watching me snack and there's two things one you're thinking how disrespectful or two god I wish he'd give me one and so either way it's not good for you I think you ask for a gummy worm or is that against the law I think you'd probably be crossing the line oh no that would be best case scenario for me because if they asked me for a gummy worm I'd go I only brought enough for one knowing it's a massive forgot six just to let it as a son of a bitch yeah I'm always looking for like like everybody most people avoid the awkwardness and I'm there to create it and live in it so that I because when someone gets awkward you learn a lot about that person so when you're meeting you can get a good read on somebody with how they react to something that's uncomfortable

and so I I try to make people uncomfortable very quickly in a depot not in a bad way just to put them on their toes see how they react so that I can then kind of morph my questions into a more impactful way right you're like what if jigsaw was a lawyer instead exactly yeah yeah it's like what if jigsaw just didn't kill people yeah yeah well the it was just like a it was like an escape room but hey he lets you hang yourself too I mean it's the same basic principle you know that's the idea the owen deposition actually does start with would you like to play a game so owens it's the I've been watching Owen for a while because you know he's like oh watch me own these libs at this march or this protest and I'm thinking to myself this guy's not that smart he's just going and

finding though those are the best clips he's got from everybody he spoke to so as soon as hesslin the hesslin case came in I called dibs on Owen from day 34 years ago and mark was like 100% you can have it he was like why and I was like because we're roughly the same age and I want him to feel what other people feel like when he does it to them and so it's like the urge to bully the bully yeah yeah exactly exactly it's like let me show you how it's done when you when you meet your match here and the best part was I'd found a video the night before of him at the woman's march in DC and he was wearing trump garb and and a lot of people were saying like oh what how could you be out here wearing a trump scarf you know support and say you support women he's

like oh I support all the women that were sexually trafficked at the Epstein island which I was like okay I can get behind that you know mutual ground um and then they're like yeah but y'all you know info wars is bad and he's like name one trump accuser if trump is so bad name one woman's name that's an accuser and these people just couldn't and uh and he's like yeah so you can't even name one name so you're not even informed and so I heard that and I was like oh god I was like all right so during the depot I straight up just asked him like can you name do you know the name of of mr. Hesslin's son do you know can you name one child do you can you know and I just started to ask him he's like no he's like you can't I was like let's watch this clip so I played the clip of

him doing its other people and at the end it was so unnecessary for me to do I was like do you see kind of how I got my question of format there and he just looks at me on the record he goes I tip my hat to you on that one I was just like all right like boom at least you understand what was happening like he knew I just got railed that's a that's awareness inside the room you know like you're being able to to get to that place excuse me sir I believe I have been hoisted upon my own peton good night oh no the fun thing too is like imagining that these people that he's talking to in that video that you found what if they hosted a show where they complained about trump accusers and still couldn't name one you know that's the name one that's the thing that's

that's even more offensive and what makes your example even more egregious I think yeah so he uh I will say this from you know since we haven't gotten into some of the specifics I walked into Owen's depot thinking he was a bad guy and I could see in his face the more we talked about what happened and how we got to hear and how wrong all the shit was that he said he was having an epiphany of of anger not towards us or towards the plaintiffs but towards his staff and towards the company and at the end when I said you know if Mr. Haslund or Ms. Lewis was in the room right now what would you say and he was remorseful he was sorry he he was the only one and he walked out of there and I was like god damn it I wanted to hate me more than I do right now and it's not fair

but I really do appreciate you doing what you did and uh and saying what he did and so he walked away from that um I get his position now he's stuck what's he supposed to do he nobody else nobody else is gonna hide no I mean like a car wash would he doesn't deserve to be immediate just exactly I'm not sure a car wash in liberal Austin would hire him I mean if he goes by John or whatever his real first name is and maybe I don't know yeah he can reinvent his life somewhere in Nebraska sure that's a great place for him Omaha is nice during like oh I wouldn't let him in a city he's got to be very quiet and by himself small town yeah yeah population one well I I mean he's from my home state of Missouri and so like

you know he's not as bad as I'll say it I've been butchering at this whole time some people do I it's a Missouri but like well I'm saying people from there like that's some that's funny you brought that up because I'm always like hey can I ask a question why do we call it Germany when people from Germany call it Deutschland anybody and everybody's like well it's because they're wrong you don't know where you live yeah that's that's actually a kind of a bone of contention of people in Missouri there's the Missouri people and then the Missouri people and it's I mean you know I mean Civil War it is ironic but yes that was the state divided over the Civil War those those those streams were something yeah um but yeah either way like Owen's in a he he he walked out of

there and he was that he was the only one only witness that's walked out besides maybe Kit um that was actually sorry and I don't know they're sorry because of of how the depot went um or they were just that was the first time anybody had actually given them all the facts um because there was a lot of stuff both of them had no idea they're like wait what well I'm definitely more inclined to agree with that about Kit watching his deposition I do think there's a lot he didn't know many things that we'll get into over the course of the episode he shockingly doesn't know about Owen I think knows a bit more but the other the other problem too that I have is like yeah he may not have another choice but if he recognized like if Owen recognizes how bad this

stuff is that he's involved in and continues to do it that's worse like if you you watch his show now he's doing the same say maybe not right he's just very safe he's just making sure nobody's names and nobody I'm not identifying groups he's safe with what he does and he is a true believer to an extent on that but when he talked about Sandy Hook once and it just happened to be the one time within the statute of limitations that brought them in and he'd only been in the company a couple months when he did it I think somebody was just like hey hey new kid say this and since then he was on a bunch of other nonsense but but yeah he at the time I don't fault him necessarily for that and watching his show I did not think he was going to be a more spot I thought he was just

hey that's a cost to do in business for what I do yeah because he seems like he'd be more brash but like he did and he on air he's you know in his interviews and all this you know all this videos that he posts he is very brash um but when he gets into a serious moment he's yeah I mean he's just a little kid yeah the what you're describing about him and like you know you wanted to hate him more at the end of the the deposition was definitely kind of how I felt about Paul Joseph Watson's deposition I want Paul Joseph Watson at all Paul Joseph Watson he saw it he saw the writing on the wall no guys what the stop doing is what the fuck are we doing this is bad this looks this looks horrible for all of us it's gonna give us this reputation yeah um and you could see

from that email he splits and he starts doing his own thing because he's doesn't you know he's not going down with that shit well I mean he has his his feet in both uh sort of boats as it were you know like he has his own thing and as much as he's doing like his own youtube channel and like it's kind of separate but he's also still hosting info wars sometimes and you know he's still very closely connected he's still like the main editor of the site and what have you he he will I will say this he he does have some sort of moral compass and he read he knows right and wrong which not and that's weird to say about you know adults but um this case has showed me this case has showed me you know well I mean you have to

kind of be a psychopath to work at info wars so it does make sense that right and wrong would be a rare ability it's it's funny because you know as much as they're like oh we're not sheep we don't just follow what you know Dr. Fauci says but all the employees are just sheep of Alex I mean I just said what Alex told me to yeah yeah yeah yeah like hey he told me to put that he told me like kit kit oh god when that poor sweet kid poor sweet kid is in such shit right now at work I'm sure because he's some of his answers were horrific for him as career wise because he was like I'm like why did you put this here he's like uh Alex Jones just told me to put that so I did and I'm like oh wait wait the defamatory part yeah I'm like oh okay and I was like and then I and I asked him I was

like and what you know Alex is your boss like what he says you know you kind of got to go with and he's like oh yeah I'm like oh no kid don't say if I recall there's a couple times you were like Alex is not gonna like that answer yeah so I'll just say like oh that's that he is not gonna like that answer he he said something way different than it is um and then you can see it in their face like no there's something so awful about like being in a room being questioned by somebody who has like sort of the freedom or whatever to just like you know the trap has been set you have stepped in it and then you were just like whoo that was a trap yeah yeah yeah because I know like I knew the trap was there right I'm

setting it up they have no idea then they say it and sometimes like kid he doesn't even know he stepped in like the trap's there he steps in it he's just dangling and I'm like yeah this is a trap he's like oh shit what a trap I'm amazed whenever we've watched all these depositions I am just shocked that these people aren't constantly going like oh shit tricked again like it is over and over and over again where afterwards they go oh like it's just it's a rake they're stepping on the same rake over and over and over again yeah it's like yeah it's insane exactly exactly they uh it's definitely one regardless of who the lawyer is tough to get some of these individuals prepped whatsoever I don't I don't think prep is the problem I think it's something else but yeah Johnny

Johnny Cochran couldn't help some of these info wars people right he's it's that's a uh it's definitely a tall order to try and say oh yeah I'll prep these guys in a full day a full day of prep is a lot of prep they had the legend Robert Barnes in their corner Bobby Barron Bobby bottle service the work doesn't get much better um yeah he so I was the one that kind of broke him in the the second no the first um Rob do depot where he just goes off the handle and he's like you know what um mr banks it's laughing and and and all this stuff and you guys need to just cut all the unprofessionalism you know what I'm asking for it's not unreasonable and he just blew his lid and I knew he had a fuse I just want to see how far I need to burn it and so once he did I looked

at him as calmly as I could and I just said I'm not even gonna comment on the reasonableness of what you just said and I just left it there and you could see him just oh and uh I knew that's when when he was probably going to be exiting the case I might have poked back with like hey why don't you do an interview with Stefan Maladu why don't you uh go do right right um but yeah these the depots have definitely been fun and it it uh it kind of gave Mark and I uh it it brought us back to our roots and showed us like this is why we do this um because this is this was this case was taken on we call it a hobby case but it's not like a hobby it's we brought it on because the money doesn't we don't care about the money right we may we're successful in all sorts of you know I've

got some civil rights cases and some big industrial accidents and the auto defects we we've made money so each lawyer brings on a case at any given time that they want to do for the right reasons and that's why we brought this one on and that's why I give all the credit to Weston Kyle because they have never told us no and have never said you know hey watch your spending or anything they're just like hey go go have at it if you guys need help let us know I'd love to come in and so that they've been great with that um so when that's when we brought this in we started taking these depots and it was fun again it wasn't work it was like we're looking like I'm not prepping I'm like thoroughly trying like invested in and being as prepared as I can because I just we just wanted

to destroy this this testimony well I have to imagine that after you start doing these depositions you start to see the level of sort of you know you could call it unpreparedness or disrespect that's being shown by these defendants and like that's gotta kind of be invigorating in some ways or at least freeing it is mainly because so it happens all the time in all cases not like this though right no no no no okay this does not help first of all we've never everybody always you know 30v6 it's not uncommon to do emotion for sanctions um it's not uncommon to seek a default because this is so egregious but you know deep down inside there you're no way are you ever getting a default until now and in these cases have these cases have just they

literally have kind of they kind of screwed me moving forward because no matter I'm not going to be so hard on defense counsel anymore because I'm just in my head I'm going to say could have been worse like I've seen way worse you're no barns so yeah you're you I that's you know you were wrong but you're not that bad um because I when I first started I had I was the young guy so I had a chip on my shoulder and I was just like let's go I'm about to start a bunch of forest fires no even if it's unnecessary I'm here to start wars with the other side you were 2016 oh and shroyer exactly I mean a little bit of this oh and shroyer still he has some of us grow some of us don't um and uh and then I got older and I started you know being a

little bit you know hey you don't have to be this aggressive and and all that and then I got to this case I was like oh here we go let's do it I I forgot what this felt like yeah y'all are hungry I was uh back whenever I was a stand-up you know if you had a run of really bad shows and you just weren't doing well you just couldn't you you just kept sucking there were a couple of rooms that are that were notoriously easy to get really big laughs from and that's where you would go to like reinvigorate yourself you know that like I yeah I am funny that kind of thing it feels like it really does feel like this is where you're at you know like oh all these real cases are fucking hard you know I gotta fight that and this I just get to come in and fucking

beat up on uh I mean what amounts to children yeah yeah the suing alex jones or or being the plaintiff's attorney for alex jones is like going to the shithole yes exactly that's the name of things like if I get an if I get an airbag airbag defect case right and I get 15 gigabytes of documents sent over to my office there's nothing exciting about it I get 15 gigs from info wars I'm like where do we see where do we start I really hope there's no child porn in this like that's like because that's happened that they was child pornography in some of their discovery not in our case that was in the Connecticut case but it was just you know the stuff that the the documents they do have are just we only get about 15 percent of the craziness that is

is given to them or that they send to each other like a lot of stuff doesn't come out and so when we get to see some of them we're like Jesus yeah this is it's and it's it is fascinating to see how the inner workings of something like this are yeah one of the things that really stuck out to me from the the two depositions went over last time was the comprehensive background check on Leonard Posner that was just weirdly in their files like that's the kind of we don't know where it came from it just you know fell out of your hair that way is that a hair doll like no it fell out of your hair that way yeah that that was real that and then posting you know the honor networks PO box that's the stuff that pisses us off and that's why we're like okay you know

I'm not in any way going to even pretend to be nice in the beginning in some of this and so that that that that that was the initial motivation and then once we started getting into it it was just at this point it's like I'm going to enjoy what I'm about to do to you as a person and I'm actually a nice guy but if now when I'm punching the timecard I'm like time to be an asshole walking to work cathartic in some ways yeah it is it is it's like going to a break room and and Mark and I um you know fully invested in this case we would sometimes lose sight of you know because we're so focused on doing what we're doing and we're we are enjoying um and then we'd have to we we sit down together for a meeting and talk about what we're doing next and and we

when we started talking about trial we realized like Jesus this is actually going to be a very emotional trial and it's going to be a very um you know there's not going to be any humor in the trial yeah um and so we that's why I'm not invited right yeah because you there will be moments where you're like please let me talk please let me say something or just laugh yeah it it is and uh and so you know the the clients have been fantastic they are some of the bravest people we've I've ever met and um and Mark Mark is extremely close with he's closer with all of them I'm you know I started off as kind of the workhorse so I was behind the scenes doing all the stuff watching all the garbage videos god and it's so many it's so many more than you think like

when I say 200 hours of video it's 200 hours of what should be a thousand hours right it's because everything's so scattered out and there's no there's no real plan at least like a third of it is commercials so right and the commercials so uh Elizabeth Williamson is a writer at the New York Times and as soon as we filed this case she was like she contacted us and said I want to can I fly down and just follow y'all around for a couple days and we're like uh sure yeah New York Times you can do that but we didn't think what we didn't know is we had zero media training and so step one was like all right lunchtime let's go to LTM bow which is you know that's where we ate Mexican food in Houston and oh wait I don't know if you actually got LTM bow but I didn't

very strong margaritas and so we got hammered it with a reporter and we said all the stuff you're not supposed to say to the media and so I realized it about an hour in and I'm like uh Miss Williamson uh if this is gonna turn into a hit piece I just want you to know you have full authority to lie and embellish because if it's gonna be bad I want to be like Wolf of Wall Street bad right so if she's just looking she's like no one has ever said that to me before I was like I just want you to know because I realized we've said a lot of stuff we should know and no one said off the record at all guys and I'm like looking like everyone's having that epiphany and she's like guys like no you guys are fine y'all been great but she um bartenders should really do that for you

like say this is off the record yeah every bartender should have like a journalist credential that they have to check and yeah they have to do the whole thing I like it I'm gonna open a bar call off the record um and uh but she she just uh published a book a couple weeks ago yeah it's a sandia book and in that she interviewed me kind of right when I was really digging into the videos and she was like what are you getting out of it and I just watched one and I was like honestly I'm really involved I'm really into these combat wipes um because that was the commercial that I just said and she looked at me she was like what are they and I was like I mean if you break it down it's just baby wipes for a bunch of middle-aged caucasian men that are camping out in the woods

with some friends calling themselves a militia and she put it in the book if you actually cut yourself with your friend's hunting knife and these wipes are these are man wipes yeah these man wipes you know keep yourself fresh down there when you're with all your militia with that but that was like she that's in my intro of the book and I was just like this is one I'm wearing that as a badge of honor for the rest of my life and two I could have been more professional in that interview but here we are with that uh watching all those videos and having that like you said you watched alex from when you were like in college you know as entertainment it was 9-11 and JFK and you know our our human hybrid amphibians you know real it was you know

everywhere in my generation you know Facebook came to my college my freshman year and that when you still you had to have a .edu email address to have Facebook like it was the Facebook the yeah the the Facebook I will never forget we all promised we would never forget the the and so the this technological era of news and information and all that was you know as I was coming of age and so Alex Jones I would see different articles or leaks or not leaks but articles or videos and stuff and so I would watch him and my friends would watch me talk about him and so I knew exactly who he was a long time ago and uh but it was entertainment and then closer the closer we got to 2016 election is when he decided you know Sandy Hook he took an extreme

story probably the most egregious extreme story in my lifetime and then he made it even more extreme right um from there the closer we got to 2016 he realized if he goes political he can grow and he did the he went when he went right he exploded and um I mean for instance like he infowars had White House press credentials at one point kind of which is I mean I what I said wasn't not true right in a strictly legal sense that might be accurate you've fallen into our trap fool give me my gummy worms yeah I'll have one of those now he was political before it was just that he loved Ron Paul who was never gonna win he the doctor yeah he's the most notorious OBGYN on the planet and uh the only OBGYN I think who

tried to take over an island nation uh you know everybody has their version of events right yeah yeah um but now he's uh he was he was libertarian and he I mean he he was not a fan of George Bush no um senior was too much of a liberal yeah yeah right which is funny because George Bush became governor by saying yes that person over there is conservative I'm more concerned and then Alex Jones is like yeah that was crazy live yeah this guy's a socialist this guy but um yeah he exploded in 2016 and it kind of took its own wings from there yeah did that experience like really feel different though like watching it and paying attention versus watching it for entertainment like the content oh hundred percent because you because I'm not watching I'm not really watching

the content as much as I'm breaking down the stylist you know the style of how he's doing it how he's going into these and planning them and how he transitions you notice all of that now and you realize it's it's I'm not gonna say genius but it's it was a way that no one had really mastered until him to rapid fire things at someone to where you can't ask questions because there's so much coming at you and there's so many questions to ask that you just don't have time or you forget about something that he said five minutes ago because you're now talking about something else yeah there's there's a craft to it that I'm not even positive he's entirely conscious of what he's doing but it is there is something to that but I mean it's really just kind of a

debate tactic like overwhelming the person that you're talking to with like too much stuff and and hoping they get flustered right but yeah I mean one of our one of our clients was a fan of his yeah yeah up until like Sandy Hook he's a of an avid listener of his and then this happened and you know well let's just say not so much a fan anymore it's gotta it's gotta make you reevaluate whether or not it's a good idea to believe Alex about Oklahoma City and stuff like that you would hope you're on the wrong oh speaking speaking to that I thoroughly enjoyed asking Kit and Owen like tell me one story that y'all gotten right yeah and then Owen was like Owen was a Gulf of Tonkin I was like okay anything in the last 20 years like they didn't cover that

right they went back and that was all Owen Owen was on the ground at the Gulf of Tonkin he was negative 10 years old I will say this they did they they called Epstein early no they didn't well ish they didn't they didn't name him they just said that the globalists are sex trafficking right but the same panic happened in the 80s and 90s they're just ripping that shit off yeah but they did call Jesse Smollett or that's just racism you can't you can't just listen if you're just a racist all the time then yes you're gonna call Jesse Smollett but that's that's not fair you can't put racism aside the way I like to say it is even in a dark pitch black room and you're throwing darts at the wall you hit the target every once in a while right and that's

what it's literally what they do is they just everything's a conspiracy or everything's not what it seems until one time and you know yeah I'll give you that however they got there those were things that they didn't totally uh end up with something that was wrong in hindsight they didn't get sued for being right right that's the bar but they could have that's the bar well maybe not because Jesse Smollett was a public figure yeah probably would have been clear when it becomes public figure it becomes a lot more these cases become more difficult because you have a platform to speak to yourself yeah that uh that moment with the kid Daniels when it's just like name something you didn't get wrong just one and then it's just like oh wait and it just keeps going it's painful

painful yeah Rob dude the first time it happened Rob do was doing it I was like you know just name one and he's just sitting there and I was like this is getting uncomfortable and I just say it out loud to him and he just looks at me like Jesus you're right man fuck this is horrible well I don't want to say under oath something we got right just in case funny because under oath you know their whole motto and philosophy at the company is like you know if we you know we get under oath we'll tell you the truth we got the stories and then they get under oath and they're like please don't make me answer that yeah please for the love of god please don't make me answer that question well Alex just the other day was saying that uh once it gets to the trial for the Sandy Hook case he's going to

reveal and expose how all the people are making money on Sandy Hook and all this yeah he's very excited to get on the stand and really defend himself so I'm excited for a number of things first of all when we when the when he's got filed and all the media kind of started Alex immediately on his show was like oh Hillary Clinton and George Soros are funding this and the day that that was said we were all at lunch and I looked at my phone and I saw it somebody had sent me a screenshot and I was like take a look at this and I looked at the table and I was like all right guys which one of you fuckers has all the money and isn't sharing because like where's the Soros check because I haven't gotten any literally I didn't get any either everyone's phones on the table who has a text

from Hillary who's who's holding out it's also funny because Kyle Farah came to a hearing with us and he stood up in court at one point because something got played by the defense and that that Soros accusation got thrown out and Kyle stood up and said judge I have to stand up I'm a little up into here I just want you I just want for the record to be known I'm funding all of this out of mind I just want everyone to know this is my money I picked up the check so I don't want anyone getting credit for this except me I am funding so if there's any any power behind us it's mine it's mine well I'm glad I'm glad we're able to clear up the non-soros connection unless unless Mark's peace during a bunch of checks that he hadn't told anybody

about we have not received a cent we did start receiving money um and cards of support at the beginning um and every once in a while we'll still get one and people just started sending cash and stuff to us um to say hey this should we want to help with the legal costs and uh I was like Mark came in obviously what do we do with all this I'm like I don't know I was like donating it like he was like where should we donate it to I was like the honor network he's like oh that's perfect so I you know anytime somebody emails us or says and we're actually very responsive um to the to people that reached out to us via email or call them you know I'm just like hey if you'd like to donate I really appreciate it but we don't need it um let just if you want to donate donate to

the honor network because they they're they're a network that targets um internet misinformation and probably makes you look more like you're taking Soros money yeah yeah right hey I will do anything in my power to look more suspicious to Alex because here's the problem all right when you freak him out when your optics are giving money away clearly that means that Soros is giving you that money to give away obviously otherwise you wouldn't be able to give that money away makes perfect I want to buy one of those little earpieces with the uh the little stretchy cord that like the secret service where I want to wear one of those in trial just look at him and then start talking into my cuff it'd be great somebody's feeding me lines into that like who is that who's he talking

it'd be great if in a deposition you had an earpiece but it was connected to a gummy worm right right that would be great exactly just had it right here and just kind of and a lit cigarette yeah with a with a with a paper with a paper clip inside yep it's the ash and then everybody's just looking at me like hey that's the legal amount can't smoke and door is this is this lawyer crazy uh so we should probably wrap this up before too long I think we're about an hour or so so but I want to know if there's anything else that you wanted to cover about the the depositions anything that like would be a good introductory note because we're going to get into it after after we talk here so

sure um so I would say with the Owen depot it I I walked out about thinking that was way better than I thought it was going to be and I had very high expectations for myself um he knew the position he was in and he was one of the few that didn't even try to fight at one point kind of threw all the papers in the air and said oh Jesus just make this end um two oh it makes more money than I thought it did yeah their payroll is out of control based on the depositions that I've heard yeah so uh and then and then when you get the kid early on I realized you know I'm not dealing with the top brass here um he's uh he but he is a he's the type of person that doesn't know better than to believe all of a lot of this stuff and so uh I used that against them and I would he would

say a sentence and I'd say oh you just used this word what does that mean and then he'd give me the his definition of it and I'm like okay perfect let's now apply that to like and I did it with Owen that was that's probably the highlight for me is when I said Owen is info wars mainstream media he's like absolutely not I'm like okay what is mainstream media and then he gives me like you know they have uh been around for a little while have a reputation they uh have corporate advertising and he gives me like four points and I'm like all right well what about Breitbart and he's like no I wouldn't say the mainstream and I'm like well those four points and then I realized as soon as I say that I realized holy shit info wars before they would be platformed

had all of these things and I'm like let's get back to these four points and so I go his info wars and he's like absolutely not we're not mainstream media and I'm like well what about this this and this he's like well I that that's not just the whole list and I'm like okay well what's up what else on the list and he's like uh and I'm like all right we you can kind of see what we're doing here and he's like we're but we're not mainstream media I'm like we're gonna hear your definition bro you might be um yeah so that was the highlight the highlight for and so then I at one point I got him I at one point in the depot I asked going I'm like so let's just agree you don't even know what mainstream media is and he's like

yeah yeah I don't know what it is so I'm like Jesus this is best case scenario for me and Mark's sitting there and he's when I'm going at it like he and I work really well together so we're handing notes and making sure that we're on the same page but half the time by the time one of us gets done with the note and hands it to the questioner we've already verbatim said that question right so we can read each other's minds so big we've been doing this for a while and uh and so Mark starts writing and then when that question comes out I could hear him stop and I hear him go and he just kind of has a short gas because he knows it's coming and Owen says yeah I don't know and Mark just goes oh god and then uh it was loud enough to where everyone in the room heard but it

didn't get caught on the record there's one other time that that and if you listen closely you can hear it and uh it's during Owen's depot and Owen's like yeah I was live on air filling in for Alex somebody who I don't remember handed me these documents and said we already got the clips ready to go run the story from zero and uh and I'm like so you're just a puppet and he's like I'm not a puppet and I'm like well a puppet is somebody who conveys a message but someone else has control and I'm like he's like yeah and I'm like you're live on air he's like yeah I'm like somebody hands you a story you don't know what's in it he's like right and I'm like but they do yeah so they have control of it he's like right and then you convey the message he's like exactly

and I'm like so you're a puppet he was like uh yeah yeah I am a puppet and Mark just goes to which like this testimony is not supposed to exist right no one's ever supposed to say I'm a puppet but uh this mark just goes I'm Ron Burgundy just right in my ear and if you listen it didn't make the transcript but if you listen you can hear it and I because like throughout all these depots regardless of who's questioning the other person is literally there just in popcorn watching and trying to hold it in and there's times when you can't but um but yeah that's uh if you listen closely you can hear the I'm Ron Burgundy and he wasn't trying to be disruptive or anything it just had come to him and he said it very quietly just in my ear and I just look at him and I was like

wow that's a little loud buddy and he was like was it we're going to look for that like the this is definitely going to be very important to us from here on out fine so yeah Owen admits doesn't know what mainstream media is and I am a puppet and uh yeah kid Daniels cries a lot and um and rightly so so you know that's hard to argue with the six to sum up the six or seven hours that's that's the burly enjoying it that's the brief description yeah that's a broad strokes and now we'll get into a couple hours uh breakdown of the six hours a little bit more specific uh or whatever oh bill thank you so much for joining us thank you so much as a policy wonk I was honored to uh to appear on the show and uh I love what you guys do

that means a lot and it was it was great to meet you down in Austin and I hope uh I may I may make the trip for the trial so I hope to see you again next month absolutely take care guys thank you congratulations on the getting you married congratulations to you and to kid Daniels for causing them I feel like you gotta rewrite your vowels on that one wow what fun oh my god he's so nice yeah what a delight thank you bill uh for coming in and having a little chat with us oh yeah before we get going and now we will partake in uh a long uh extended session of listening to uh him question idiots yep that's the plan so uh I decided that we're gonna start with the kit uh Daniels deposition because I think uh I think we can all agree that if this is the lineup

of two Owens the headliner oh yeah and that is a sad state of affairs but it's just the reality so this was a deposition that was taken on February 20 uh February 17th of this year and like I said it has to do with the Parkland shooter misidentification that kid uh put in an inforce article where he he misidentified the shooter as uh Marcel Fontaine who is now suing correct inforce yeah yeah I know that Owens probably more famous of a figure and that the sandy hook litigation is probably more primary in people's minds but I've been thinking about it and I think that this deposition is probably more revealing than many of the others that we've covered maybe not more than Daria but it's up there and most of what we revealed through Daria's was that she's a weird

out I mean I heard the psycho music during Daria's deposition that it was yeah it was diagetic to the scene yes yes part of this uh uh like the revealing nature comes from I'm sorry to say Kit seems really dumb I worry that that sounds harsh now but I assure you as we go through this that assessment I think is gonna seem very fair he doesn't seem to know or understand much and because of that he ends up getting himself into really bizarre places while being questioned under oath sometimes this dumbness intersects with a level of naivete and in those places Kit doesn't seem like he realizes some of the stuff he's revealing about the inner workings of info wars which is wild yeah a lot of that stuff may not be legally problematic but it's definitely

damning in the context of our show and what we cover there's another aspect of this too and it's something that Bill kind of touched on which is that you kind of want to end up liking Kit a little bit he doesn't seem like such a bad guy a lot of the time and his clear lack of understanding about basic concept it triggers a certain amount of pity in the viewer in the listener sure those feelings are fairly complicated and weighed along with a clear awareness that he's been an employee at info wars for like a decade and he doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubts it really makes a bizarre mix of of of an experience right and I think that that's definitely something that I found more interesting than I expected it to be right for someone who is essentially

info wars as it's boo Radley if you will well he's not a franchise he's a role player you know right right I get what you mean yeah he's a you feel complicated things about boo Radley exactly yes sure yes um and yeah I I think there's a lot a lot to dig here so let's let's just jump right in and we learn right at the beginning there's obviously like a lot of preliminary conversation in any deposition talking about past employment how long have you worked at info wars and we're going to jump in where we learn about kit daniel's salary okay so from may of 2013 to the summer of 2018 you were an associate editor he's approximately that yes and then after that you were promoted to managing editor

something like that yes when you say something like that what do you mean we don't really have a culture at info wars of job titles what is the culture at info wars well what I mean as far as like some companies you would have like oh here's your new job title maybe it's in writing it hasn't necessarily been the case compared to my other positions other companies when you became managing editor in the summer of 2018 did you receive a raise no how much do you currently make anywhere from 75 to 90,000 a year it's uh based on the range I assume it's not a salary position it is a salary position uh I think 75 is my base salary it can go up to 90 based on performance bonuses 75,000 is high

but I think compared to the other salaries we've heard from people who work in info wars sure sure it's closer to a range that I find acceptable right right well still bums me out it still bums me out but you know it should bum yeah to somebody who sports workers is that he got a raise or he didn't get a raise just a new title I know more responsibilities probably more work I've already sussed out one major issue that I almost like in the back of my mind no will come up almost constantly what's that um kit daniels giving answers that he does not realize our begging questions you know that like that's not really the culture we have here at info wars begs the question well what the fuck is the culture at info wars you know I feel like we're going to go down

that pathway a lot at risk of sounding like Paula Tompkins it raises the question you're using that expression wrong oh my god um yeah I think you're right though he does open doors with with answers a bit and I think that's a dynamic that is kind of fun because I think that bill as a person holding a deposition is the the sort who's like alright let's walk through that yeah let's go let's you opened it man it's not even me so it leads to some pretty interesting exchanges but so kit makes seventy five thousand dollars a year a possibility of 90 still scoffing gets bonuses okay and for what he's lying about well sure okay I mean we wouldn't put it that way okay did you receive a bonus in 2020 2020 that would have been last year correct I don't know two years ago yes I did do you remember

what that bonus was that was probably approximately for the year 12 to 13 000 it seems like the company was doing uh the performance of the company was better in 2020 than 2021 something like that I would assume okay what about 2019 do you remember it was approximately the same as 2020 okay and 18 uh it's been a while since I've looked at my w2 for 2018 sure but if we wanted to find that information out it would be in your w2 yes have you ever had a year where you did not receive a bonus I don't believe so are you aware that free speech systems as rough as over you know as they stayed in this lawsuit is over 50 million dollars in debt no I wasn't aware of that do you think people should be getting bonuses if that's the actual real debt I wouldn't be the person to

make that judgment if you were running a company that was that indebted would you be giving bonuses to people possibly not so there's there's there's a there's a jocularness to him sure possibly now so of all the people that I've heard deposed kit is the only person who I don't feel furious about when I hear him talk about his salary the rest of these people are outrageous hacks and make way too much and don't get me wrong kit is a hack too but he's making under six figures right that's I don't know why that's a dividing line for whatever reason I can see an argument for someone like him being worth a decent salary because honestly without the people who run the site and manage the articles that go up there would be no way the show could exist Alex can't curate

that shit himself and if you were forced to report on articles without Taylor made headlines for him to yell about his show would suffer from that the people who write the articles and who repost other outlets articles with new headlines are really the backbone of what makes Alex's show function and with Paul Joseph Watson doing a lot less of that heavy lifting in the past few years someone like it probably does have real value compare what someone like him brings to the table to someone like Owen or Harrison and I think you'd rather have kid around just about any day yeah I'm I'm I mean you know I don't like that he's paid as much as he is but relatively speaking I think he needs to unionize in order to get a better contract for himself because there's no

way that Harrison Smith should be making that much more than him no no I mean I would pay Owen like 15 an hour because that's a respectable wage maybe and even though I'm philosophically opposed to them I would offer Harrison I wouldn't give him anything past an unpaid internship the thing that I find really interesting about this clip and so many other moments in this deposition is the clear information based power imbalance between the lawyer and the person being deposed it has no idea that info wars is deeply in debt later Owen is going to talk about how he has no idea what archives or databases the company keeps and no one told him that he received a court order for discovery in this case this is because info wars is a deeply compartmentalized workplace Alex keeps

so much information from the people who work there and you can see folks being completely caught off guard to hear these kind of revelations in a deposition setting and as for this debt I'm not really sure how much of this is just normal for a business right yeah but it seems pretty high yeah Alex sucks at business so I could see him being really deep in the soup but I don't know what the fuller picture of this is until I tell more information comes out but taking it face value it's obviously surprising to kid sure and it sounds bad yeah I mean it just a quibble with Bill is just like you know I think the employees should be treated regardless of whether or not the owners of the company have fucked up and gotten themselves 50 million dollars in debt

that's all I'm saying I think I think in an ideal world that would be the case but I think that maybe a business can't function 50 million dollars that may be true that may be something like Alex there is something of the real politic to it yes so um kit is asked about like this the dynamics of how like an article gets published and so like you you publish this yourself right you were able to hit the button and publish it gotcha hand you exhibit one okay do you recognize it yes I do tell us what it is this is a rolling update article I wrote in February 14 2018 regarding the breaking news on the uh Florida shooting when you say the Florida shooting you mean the parkland yes uh Florida high school shooting yes who published the story I did

did anybody help you no when you write a story and publish it you have the ability to upload it to the website you're on your own yes who all has that capability uh the writers that I just mentioned except uh Dan Lyman usually submits his stories for one of the staff writers to publish for him we don't trust you as the managing editor have to put eyes on every story that goes up that is my practice is that a requirement it's not necessarily a requirement that's something I do in practice have you always done that uh no why not uh it's just kind of something that's after all these lawsuits and litigation I kind of decided for myself that that was something I needed to do them take more responsibility I think most people would hear this and just move

along but I think it's nuts I think that is wild this clip is probably the only time in any of these depositions that I've heard someone express that in response to all of the lawsuits and fours is facing that they decided they needed to do a better job it was yeah no I was I was just I was like wait wait wait wait hold on mind blow are you saying that you saw a problem took responsibility and then changed your behavior that a fucking blows my mind yeah that's a really basic thing for normal people right it's a super low bar to clear but for info his employees that's that deserves a standing ovation I know my jaw is on the floor now to be clear since this point kit has not done a better job and the articles that go up on the website are still totally full

of bullshit but he has the he has the ability to recognize that he needs to do better I'm gonna assume that he has a problem with follow through or maybe he has a boss that needs him to do a bad job to keep the company in business but I applaud this impulse yeah on a very basic level I really do I think the evidence shows that it doesn't really make a difference at all but impressive all the same I think yeah you know it is about what you do and not about what you say but doing something like saying this is so unreal for an info wars employee that almost counts it's it this is sort of touching on a little bit of that naivete that I mentioned because like in this setting it doesn't behoove you to say something like that no no absolutely it makes you look like a better

more rational human yeah but it doesn't help you with the the deposition no no and it's not good defense let's say yeah no your your best defense at info wars is pretending you've never heard of info wars right what is morals what are you saying words wise so there's a interesting through line I'll say uh in this in this entire exchange the entire four hour deposition it pops back up it rears its head and that is are you a journalist what is a journalist what do you do right and so right kit has called himself a journalist in the past but he realizes he realizes that might have been a mistake yeah and so he addresses that here when you publish an article who does the research for it if it's an article I'm doing typically myself okay what's

your training in journalism I took some uh classes in uh well first off I've used the word journalism maybe out of ignorance before I kind of see myself more as a social commentator uh since when I think my whole career in enforce has been more about social commentator when did no when did you start logic characterizing yourself as a social commentator I think uh I started reading some glenn greenwald articles the past couple of months and kind of made me realize the way he approaches things is a lot different in the way I approach things I know what it's real cool that kit's been reading greenwald lately as opposed to the other points in his career I was gonna say that's not true I think the kit probably learned about him from appearances on talker that's what

I would assume that would make sense another interesting thing to point out is that all of these people say that they don't consider themselves that much a journalist and they're more into social commentary sure I don't think they really change as much but it's so consistent in these depositions that I think there must have been a company meeting yeah like that has to have been something like we can't claim that we're journalists totally that opens up a box of of worms we don't want to we don't want to open so we can rely on just being like I'm just saying shit yeah no a social commentator is definitely a barns or paddice uh conversation it feels like something that is useful to appear to have less responsibility yeah but I don't know if it helps yeah no

so the the the intersection of like are you a journalist I may have said I was in the past kind of thing right it leads to what I would describe as a weird who's on first routine okay what is a journalist what are you that's the thing that I even when I first started in fours it is very confusing so I understand your frustration with it too it's thanks kid this it's nice to ask you this maybe this will be easier what's the difference between you and a journalist I don't go out and talk to sources like one-on-one like I'm not going to go get a news tip from somebody and talk to them on signal let me ask you this did you go out to a Bernie Sanders protest and talk to people yes those are sources true I don't know if I call them sources I was just kind of give them

an opportunity to vent their frustrations with this what was going on so you were there as a therapist no right you're interviewing people for information correct what their opinions were about the matter and then you took what what you gathered from those sources of information and then you wrote articles or made videos about I don't remember writing okay let me finish my question I'm sorry I'm sorry it's okay I just wow oh boy so you get information for people that you report it right so here's where here's where I feel like social commentator falls apart is that they feel like it's more honest than journalist right but it's still hiding behind something like what they should just say is like guess I'm a professional asshole

I am a dick to people and their reaction is what we sell have you ever heard that Dennis Leary song exactly I'm an asshole that's what we do man and then I feel like people would be like well I mean that's probably about as accurate as you're gonna get yeah I don't I feel like it would be tougher for a lot of Alex's audience to get excited about a professional asshole you know what I just follow a professional asshole I think that might tarnish their image a little bit this guy is a dick and I pay him for it yeah so as this the the journalism question will will come back up of course but the the question's on the table now is that if you're reporting a story is it more important to be accurate or first or you know quick to get the story out all right before you ask this question kit

do not answer this question or to answer poorly I'm asked mr shroyer the same question that I'm about to ask you which is foreshadowing you believe it's more important to get the news right or to be the first to report the news I think it's both really yes you don't think that the veracity of a story far is far more important than it being reported before anybody else no what I believe is that you also you want to be as accurate as you can be but the same time you want to be timely I mean look that's dumb yeah you don't want to ever say that you know you can sacrifice your your obligation to like be correct or accurate about things if it's in the interest of getting things out fast no the editor-in-chief at like wapo or something would say the most

important thing to us is the truth by far it's right you know and then you know quietly they'd be like well obviously we've got to get it out timely and true so there's a push pull of economics here but they wouldn't say it well but but I think that the reality is obviously there's an incentive for things to be immediate when there are new stories of course but that is in no way more important than accuracy no always support if you can't get an accurate story you shouldn't run with it for the sake of speed does not matter and I don't think that that is the what's what kid is describing no I think he's saying like it's half and half I would say you get it as right as you can get it so long as you get it out the door at the oh wait no that means that I put timeliness

way ahead of it no okay never mind that's trouble yeah so um in discussing the speed thing uh kit reveals some stuff about how he views his responsibility to the audience and vice versa that I find troubling when you wrote exhibit one was there any rush to put this article out yes it was a breaking story why does that make it a rush because nobody the shooting just occurred within the couple hours and it was in the public's interest to kind of kind of figure out what the motivations for the shooting were why do you why do you think the public needed to know the motivations immediately that's just that's how the new cycle works the people unfortunately people don't want to know things two three four days later okay at info wars since they're not journalists

there's no race wouldn't they have plenty of time to make sure what they're providing the people is true well unfortunately our audience kind of dictates our time frame how so well they're just not going to be interested in a story that's four or five days old why do you think that because the public tends to if they have their eyes set on a pretty particular story that happened to that moment of time that's where our eyeballs are going to be at so kit's revealing a couple of really important things here the first it has to do with the relationship between the audience and the producers of the content kit believes that he has to rush out stories whether they're accurate or not because the audience is fickle and they won't care tomorrow about what happened today

but the reality is that he has this relationship backwards info wars has cultivated and trained this response from their audience through the constant bombardment of flashy headlines and imminent predictions of terrorist nukes and fema camps everything that's happening today is reported as cataclysmic because it needs to be to capture the maximum amount of attention and if you want a chance at retaining any eyeballs tomorrow the headlines better be just as flashy and just as severe and probably not about the same thing you were yelling about the day before yeah that's not going to be as exciting nope alex has trained this in his audience partially because it's easier and partially because he can't operate any other way if info wars took the time to flesh out stories

and do follow-up reporting just about everything they cover would be revealed to be bullshit and they'd spend all their time on air correcting the shit they said yesterday which might be an interesting show i think it would be as a like a sketch yeah mr show calling last week sketch yeah right all right the correcting yesterday yep show there isn't time to flesh out stories because you need to get right back to work distracting the audience as soon as the next news cycle hits and you have to uh you have a very strong incentive to not flesh out stories anyway because they don't hold up to scrutiny they did this to their audience but the way kit understands it they're just responding to market pressures this is kind of sad but i do think that

i believe he believes it yeah no i i feel like one of the things that i'm running into here and the reason that bill specifically said is he's a more sympathetic figure is simply because it appears that he has been told all of these things and then just believed them yeah yeah there is the naivete yeah it it's it's a weird thing to run into because there is a sincerity to it that doesn't it doesn't feel artificial no and it's it i can't imagine it being a good enough actor to pull that off oh no good god no no because what it is is he's never asked himself a follow-up question maybe never had to yeah he's never had to so bill is asking him questions that he's he's sitting there thinking like i've never even thought of this question before this is kind of interesting

yeah yeah so the second thing that kid is revealing is the internal way that info wars kind of understands that metaphor that i refer to as the wet concrete thing. Propaganda narratives really only stick if you're able to implant them early you need to have something happen and then provide the narrative for your audience to understand the event through if you can succeed at that your audience will be more likely to evaluate any further things they hear about the event through the prism of your conspiracy narrative as opposed to looking at the details independently this is a critical aspect of getting narratives to stick and i think the kid is reflecting the a basic understanding of this but just from the producer's side he wouldn't want to think that that's what

he's doing because it's inherently abusive to an audience and it's entirely dishonest but this is that dynamic when he says that the audience wouldn't be interested in old news what he's actually saying is that by the time of stories a few days old the concrete's already dried and whatever angle he's gonna try and sell it isn't gonna stick the thing i find the most fascinating about this perspective is that i completely agree with just about everything that kid is describing in terms of what whether or not the audience would care about a couple days old news story but we have a fundamental disconnect in terms of why i blame info wars and alex whereas kit seems to blame the audience well for how they're fickle if they didn't want

it we wouldn't give it to a man it's like it's like oh oh just because i go into some community and give them a ton of heroin people want heroin that has nothing to do with it man people always want heroin yeah there's there's there's something to that that metaphor so um now we get to some of the details about the actual article that kit wrote one of the pieces of information that he put into the article was about how nicolas cruz the shooter in parkland was a democrat and the way he figured this out was the voter records gotcha now this is let's hear how this goes oh man this first sentence is the first sentence of the story correct yes and it ends with voter records voter records suggest 19 year old nicolas cruz was a democratic voter yes okay

where did you get voter records if i remember correctly i did a search i think florida has a i think voter records in florida republic okay so for this story you weren't reporting on what other people were saying you went out and found voter records on your own yes that's journalism true the can't really commentate on what's happening in the media if you're reporting something that nobody else is reporting unless this i'm sorry i'm trying my memory's a little bit fuzzy unless this is something i found somewhere else you remember that i believe that florida's uh my understanding was florida's uh voter registration is public information okay although this might have been a screenshot i found for somebody else okay so you don't even know where it came from

well my understanding is it came from the florida i probably didn't go back and verify it to make sure this is not just something completely made out okay so you do go and verify things yes isn't that journalism it's just something that's good practice for who so you do you go and verify things for the audience yes to the best of my ability i was i was kind of getting to a point around here where it's like this is getting a little annoying actually this naive today is a little bit grating at a certain point i am i am starting to recognize why i was not invited to the depositions i feel like i wouldn't be able to keep quite a sane solid face as as you and uh and bill were well i wasn't here for this no you weren't there for that one but i mean people who have been in

these depositions sure there's a there's an expectation of decorum although i will say spoiler alert at one point there is an audible laugh to something that gets us which i i enjoy and i will give you a heads up excellent i'm very excited um so again this this this question of like is this journalism is what you're doing journalism is just unanswerable this is just such a such a mercantile hit would you agree that journalists have a duty to be right would you agree with that that's what journalists do right so if journalists weren't reporting an instagram account be fair to say since this was within hours of the shooting they were verifying well unfortunately that's what that's what you and me would like to believe what and growing up that's

how i always saw of traditional media but unfortunately i saw an article in axios recently in my opinion axios is a little bit left leaning they pointed out that the trust in traditional media is is like plummeting i agree but let me ask you this how did that answer my question i do like that that let me ask you this let me let me throw this out at you what does that have to do with eddie so this is in relation to the notion that's given in kit's uh article in the headline the sub headline that the media is somehow covering something up about the parkland shooter right and this is that uh you know a complaint i guess as best as kit can explain that no one else is covering the uh the instagram right account right and so uh bill's conjecture

is maybe they're checking things um and uh so kit's rejoinder is that there's an axios article that came out that people don't trust the media see and again this is not related not related to the question at all you think that unfortunately this leads to kit uh uh uh uh getting uh getting some thoughts out about statistics no no no no no no kit this leads to a brick wall i'm not in the newsrooms it's on these organizations right so you shouldn't really have an opinion one way or the other as to what they're doing well it's not my opinion when i say that axios reported that public trust in the media is at all time lows and that was the sample of the general public correct i believe so okay you don't know who they sampled correct no you don't know how many

people well if it's over am i understanding being an economics major if it's over 30 it's maybe statistically important i mean there's a i mean there's at least seven more variables that are absolutely necessary for it to be reliable not just over 30 geographical age gender all of those go into it to make sure it's subjective it's objective correct that's what you're saying i don't know that right but well you're citing statistics and so i'm citing the statistical principles okay do you know them no okay then let's not talk about statistics okay that hurt do you know anything about this oh no all right let's let's not talk about it then hey how about

this i'm gonna give you a gift don't hang yourself right now but again we got time this is exactly what you were talking about the doors that get open bill walks down that hallway and then there's like no no going anywhere body body you gotta stop so the article itself some of the over 30 but see here's the thing i can't tell because of the context right i can't tell if he means over 30 people polled right or if it's over 30 percent is relevant yeah i don't know i could i could definitely see him saying over 30 people polled but i can't believe it it seems like that's what he's saying based on context right but if you're being overly generous then it's like well if something is over 30 percent then it's statistically relevant but i would say that something in the

20s is still it could be could be seen as relevant if what he's saying is that a poll as statistically relevant as long as you ask more than 30 people that's wild i do not believe in education anymore i don't think it can save us i don't think it can help us if something has to be over 30 percent to be statistically relevant then i mean our last episode from 2003 which is reporting on a german poll where like 19 percent of people thought that that 9-11 was an inside job and look so that's not statistical to get that from stat news i don't know that is not a statistics outlet so the article itself some of the main claims in it were that kit was saying that the shooter dressed like a communist also dressed like an isis fighter in syria oh boy and supported isis

these were claims that were made based on nicolas cruz's instagram instagram page right that he found and the picture of marcel fontaine that was found on fourchan that uh uh with uh kit misidentified as the right right yeah and so we we get into a little bit of this uh the claims of the the communist dressing the supporting isis and it's not good for kit would you agree with me that reported florida shooter dressed as communist is false if what i was if the headline had to do with fontaine's photo then yes i would agree with you okay would you also agree with me that reported florida shooter dressed as a as communist comma supported isis that's also false i don't know because if i remember correctly

his instagram account said things like ala akbar and his these photos in the instagram account just looks like something i would expect an isis fighter in iraq to dress like interesting he says isis fighter in iraq but it constantly goes back to syria yeah for some reason yeah and so this is this is kind of an interesting notion like why do you think this looks like an isis fighter right right right and this could not go more poorly for kit of course not this because i can already tell you what a stone answer is right now i can just be like hey who knows what's in a man's heart that's it and then he'd ask questions you'd be like ah that's all i got for you that's stone i think that uh some level of don't answer this would

have been appropriate that best way um instead kit just fumbles the ball multiple times it's it's embarrassing the article that you wrote says additionally the shooter's garb is very similar to the style worn by isis fires and fighters in syria i'd read that correctly yes okay when we look at the image that you included in this article there are one two three four five pictures of allegedly nicolas cruz correct yes okay and is this the the collage of photos that you drew the isis fighters in syria comment from i believe so yes is it normal for isis fighters in syria to wear united states army hats well i was looking at the mass that they're wearing and the kind of the knives how he's holding the knives so yeah when you you say the united

states army i mean i do remember that there was a big controversy don't do it we're isis fighters i believe it was in syria we're using a pickup truck from a plumber in houston that still had his logo on it so there's no telling i mean yeah possibly so it's based on your analysis it's fair that the videographer here is dressed as an isis member fighting in syria no he's actually pretty dressed pretty well i know plumbers in houston that dress like that well i was talking about the plumbers truck okay this is why you don't need to answer these guys in what world do you i what world do you offer information at a deposition well i think probably there's poor preparation well there's definitely that and i think also these kinds of justifications for like why did you

think that those work in his normal life no oh yeah yeah totally you know around info wars that's good enough yeah again probably doesn't hang out with too many like critical people of his worldview and if he does maybe it's at like some place where he has a camera and it's hostile based sure about yelling at each other sure sure sure he doesn't have to actually question himself yeah and so why did you think this person looked like a isis fighter in syria he was wearing a mask and has an american army hat but also a plumber in houston's truck was in syria yep it's just convoluted makes very big sense and it gets worse it just gets worse let's hear it so if he was if the videographer here was wearing a us army hat you would you could infer from that that he was

dressed as a fighter in syria well it wasn't the hat that i was looking at specifically it's just the whole collage of the image the whole thing the the fact that the guy's wearing the gistalked if you will which is definitely i've seen lots of photos of isis fighters and they definitely like to wear a master for whatever reason have you ever seen pictures of people wearing masks that yes okay so we could throw that one out as reliable anything else you got in here that's reliable as far as somebody dressed like an isis fighter in syria well the photos i have seen of isis fighters in city there were definitely very similar to how he's dressed how many mannerism how many how many photos of isis fighters in syria have you seen a lot okay and based on that

nicholas cruise right here is dressed like that yeah i mean it could pass off as a halloween costume it could also pass off as a bank robber in the united states well i don't know i've never seen him when i think a bank robber i think it's someone wearing a presidential mask okay other than that very specific and extremely random comment we'll go on to have you ever seen photos of i of of taliban forces in afghanistan yes any of them wear masks possibly we didn't have that in the article well taliban was i don't even think the taliban was in the news at the time was mainly isis well if you don't you don't think or you don't know i don't remember okay well then we can dismiss that comment and you can answer my question okay why didn't you add uh taliban forces in afghanistan

because in the news cycle of the time it was isis is is it extremely popular and sometimes often required for members of the tamil tigers to wear masks exactly like that tamil tigers i'm not familiar with that it's the second largest terrorist organization in the world you don't know i'm not okay that's a bad look oh god don't know who the tamil tigers are for a conspiracy geopolitical website managing editor not great not a great look we need to redo the oscar oscar's because that's best supporting actor level shit right there that was hilarious it it that is a funny man it's pretty dry delivery to oh my god oh my god when i think of bank robbers i think of people wearing presidential masks you know like that movie

point break like yes of course point break of course point break uh-huh not uh like the traditional striped nope nope definitely not do they have tommy guns and they shoot their names into the wall so i would i would say that kit does not do a good job right of defending these assertions well i mean the idea of not giving a shit what it is whether or not it's isis or taliban or whomever because what's in the news is isis sure that's kind of an important reveal but yeah and it also kind of dovetails with what are you saying about like whatever the you know the audience's eyes aren't going to be beyond this unless it's something immediate yep um and that that makes your content suffer i believe uh yeah so now we jump over to the uh notion that

he had that the shooter supported isis and where they came from and just a heads up there is a ethnic slur uh that is that is used great in this as part of the explanation for his of course of course and here you did say the shooter's garb is very similar right yes but when we look at page one you say he supported isis well there was a uh if i remember correctly in his instagram account he said something about alex bar turn to page three okay you see the screenshot on page three of his uh of nicholas cruise and the voter registration yes okay you see the caption on the instagram post yes can you read it uh i believe it says well at least we now know what it means when a sand dirka says alex bar does that sound like anyone in the world that would support isis i have no idea

do you know what a sand dirka is no okay then why on earth would you derive your headline from a sentence that you don't understand it well i don't believe i derived it from this i believe i've derived it from something cruise said on his instagram account this is his instagram this yeah it might have been another comment he made on another post on instagram account surely you would have included that in your article since your headline said he supported isis possibly possibly hey it could happen who knows man so yeah he he decided that the just the fact that alex bar right is included within the body of this right phrase that also includes a slur yeah uh a very specific slur um that means that he supports isis yeah i would go the other direction yeah i

would go the other direction yeah the context of it is quite clear and i think one of the things that you can really derive from this is the level of attention to detail that someone who's in a managerial role at info wars uh engages with his content with and that's uh scary i guess i mean i'm just troubling i'm just shocked at the like completed mission of morrow just just lack of curiosity wait i wait i can't believe i can't believe that you would have no idea what that means and not be like i better take a look at that sure you know you well you just ignore entire parts of sentences in order you have to because you're just like i don't need to ask questions well the level of lack of curiosity and lack of knowledge base let's say it gets worse it's

much worse i believe that um but before we get to any of that which is i find one of the more staggering admissions uh we'll get to in a second yeah um but before that the conversation of like why did you need to uh report based on this sure why is the instagram something that you felt yeah why would you do this yeah well based on his instagram that's at the time the shooting just occurred and unfortunately that's kind of all we had to go with to kind of try to figure out what this man's motivations were so maybe the suspects motivations were okay because information was so limited maybe you should have slowed down huh well it was a breaking news story for you no it's for the audience so the audience said tell us the motivations yeah it was all over the news

at the time who did the audience at tell who at info wars got a call from the audience that said we want to know right now well that's just standard practice if the news cycle was if you see in every single news outlet and on social media they're all talking about this mass shooting that's where the audience's eyeballs are at okay where did it come from that the audience needed to know the motivation immediately to the point where you just start throwing darts in a dark room well it's just it's kind of in the public's interest is well that's what people are asking sitting here today looking back at the veracity of your article do you really think this article was in the public's interest it was in the public's interest to try to determine what the motivations were behind

the mass shooting you would agree with me that one thing that is never in the public's interest is somebody who is disseminating false information well i mean with malice maybe what does that mean what does that mean kit kit why did you offer up an answer to a question that only begs but the that only raises further questions don't answer that question don't do it man you gotta learn when to shut up unreal yeah that is a real problem through a fair amount of yeah i can see that position i do appreciate that bill has very clearly got a a a point to this section of questioning at least which is that beginning of like what matters more accuracy or timeliness and when he says both bill is very clearly going i'm going to dismantle

the concept that you give a fuck about veracity right and that it's all about timeliness yes yes and i appreciate that that's very good and kit is doing such a good job unfortunately i guess i'm giving him every yes yeah of kind of explaining why that immediacy is so important and that is that like this is how the business model operates right which is exactly what bill wants to hear basically because that's how you get the money part of the you profit off of lies and uh the the hopeful recognition that what you're doing is clickbait right this is another thing that that bill tries to nail down through this i was like can you recognize that what you're doing is clickbait right um and this conversation as it appears here leads to what i would describe

as the most staggering admission of ignorance okay that you're gonna hear okay frankly i think it's a little weird his photos i mean why would you your instagram account just be nothing but those you wear mass showing eyes well i mean i think you're trying let me back that up are you trying to make sense of an individual who brought guns to his high school and killed a bunch of people i wouldn't say sense maybe like motivation okay why why did you have to do it right then and there because that's where the audience was paying attention to at the time right so this is clickbait it's unreliable information about a story the audience wants to read about that's clickbait right that's your opinion okay what's your what's your opinion of clickbait when i use

it what do you think it means well i don't really engage in clickbait so i don't really have opinion what's the term mean you just use the term clickbait what do you mean by it i think clickbait is something like uh when you see an article on social media it's like click here to find five waste five household products that will clean your house pick and span right so it's like click here to find this out and then you click on it and there's no real information about that yes okay so when this says he supported ices and somebody clicked on your story where in here would they find that he supported ices just based on what i saw on instagram no point to the point in the story where your readers would find the information that he supported ices just that

lock bark comment okay which you have no idea what it even means uh i mean i know that's a phrase ices fighters use a lot it's also a phrase that every muslim in the world uses did you know that not necessarily i'm not too familiar with you didn't know that oh my god lock bar is a muslim phrase that is used literally every day multiple times by every muslim in the world i'm just not from that familiar with the muslim ideology oh my god wow that's just fucking wow that i don't even know what you would say to that i mean i guess i guess it's easier to understand what that's what i would say is it's a lot easier to understand why you're a white supremacist because i don't think you are you clearly have no fucking clue what's going on well and it's in a rational world someone

with this little information like would not be anywhere near the levers of talking about these topics publicly right you would not be able to opine about terrorism any issues related to islam right if you didn't have some very basic pieces of information yeah and it's we do not live in that same world i feel like a fundamental issue we're running into here is kit does not believe that words have a mutable meaning i don't think most people at info wars believe things outside of subjective right right right but i mean it is like when you ask me what a journalist is it's a word that has a meaning you know you can just repeat that meaning back because that's what a word means and he's like you know it could be like a when a bird flies

and it drops information onto the ground and that information is a is a seed and the seed becomes a tree and that's journalism now imagine that bird is glenn greenwald's recent work right right right yeah and that seed is a bomb of bullshit yeah so this next clip could have been an out of context drop but it's just bill dealing with the fact that kit did not know what a la akbar okay when you wrote this article did it was your belief that a la akbar was something that only people in ices say that was my belief at the time okay and since that time you've been promoted holy shit holy shit bill it's tough to rest it's tough to wrestle with you know like

that is damning i feel like i just got punched in the gut that's damning for kit because of his clear ignorance but it's also damning of rob do yep presumably his immediate supervisor alex jones the entire inner workings of info wars that that like he doesn't reach basic standards for like it would be one thing if you didn't know what a la akbar meant and you didn't cover the topics that kit talks about where he draws conclusions about things based on the words a la akbar right appearing somewhere right right if he talked about financial news strictly right right maybe you just like yeah that's not a world i really understand much about sure uh whatever maybe then you could be promoted if you're a good financial analyst like most white

but that's not the case beat writers he has no idea what all the hula akbar means that's not the case jesus horrible amazing so that's incredible well there are more incredible things as you were called it was brought up that he reported uh that nicolas cruz was a presumably a democrat based on voter registration right bad news about that oh no you also included a screenshot of the florida voter registration yes did you even realize that the name isn't even spelled the same not the time it did not it's not even the same person yeah i know well i did blurt it out for that contention yeah true yeah but the name doesn't even match up and you know now that i remember that there was instance where there was if i remember correctly there was two reported instances of his name

in the media at the time and it wasn't until the next morning of the 15th where his correct spelling whose name was more prominent in the media so when you wrote this story alleging that this person supported isis and was a communist you weren't even sure how to spell his name just because the media at the time was reporting like i think two different spellings of his name why'd you pick the one that you picked in this story i don't remember you just picked one and said i will go with it i don't know if i did that i just don't remember does that sound like good reporting i just don't remember does it sound like good reporting is what i asked well unfortunately when there's something in news that's breaking the details tend to be a little muddy

right and they're muddied by individuals trying to pull full stories out of details that are not yet developed correct well i'll give you an example if the first correct what was your question okay oh no oh no oh boy yeah that's tough all right so when i describe my job it sounds good but then you describe it and it sounds bad and i don't understand your words because i feel like my job's good no it's bad uh there's another point that comes up later uh that bill brings up and that is that uh there may have been multiple spellings of nicholas cruz's name sure but there was only one birth date that was released and you could have cross-referenced that to figure out who it was in the voting record and kit seemed surprised by this excuse me sir i do not understand what

cross-reference means describe that to me in greater detail using words like i am a child so kit has brought up that uh you know in the immediacy of stories sometimes when there's breaking news things get a little bit muddy and bill has suggested that maybe things are muddy when people try to force stories yeah um he might as well have just been like you realize that's you right yeah that's basically what he does in this next okay the reason it's muddy is because all the news organizations are tracing after the story and the details haven't been flushed out enough yet to report the whole story so it gets muddy right something like that right you realize you're the you're part of the problem do you realize that maybe in this instance it i'm just

saying well you you seem like you're sitting here today saying what you did in this story was was okay do you think it was okay to do no okay so you realize you were wrong yes okay and you realize you could have been way better yes absolutely okay you realize nothing about any of these photos has anything to do with communism or supporting isis i understand that now yes definitely when do you start understanding that just this moment how did you realize it just when you asked me he told me it would give me good insight as far as isis so before i just instructed you on one anybody who actually supported isis would never use the term sand dirka yeah i wasn't aware of that term you didn't even know what it meant what you didn't google any of this you just saw it and said

oh i recognize two of those words must be isis well it was a breaking news story at the time for you i would assume so i feel like a lot of my responses to these clips is oh boy hit you stepped in at this time this is this is a boxing match of i mean just mike tyson versus a three-year-old i mean it is bad it is bad yeah although at the same time here's what i feel like i feel like listening to kit now kit feels like he's in a much more comfortable space just because he feels like he's getting dressed down like he's a man who's used to having people telling me did a bad job and right now he's like yeah you're right man i did do a bad job like i feel comfortable here i'm not being questioned to think about things right now and possibly in other circumstances in his

life those dressing downs don't really lead to any consequences and then he gets a bonus right exactly so he just says oh i'm sorry sir and oh yeah you're right i'll do better next time sir there may be something to that but whether that is the case or not is relies on some assumptions and i think we can at least say there is something of value in him recognizing that what he did was wrong yes which is something in low bar that forthrightness is not necessarily there in a lot of other info wars personalities who are questioned about these things and so you know again applaud tentatively uh so the question of kami comes up the communist aspect yeah and i don't think that his uh support for this is uh much better but it has to do with a text that alex showed him

your other headline said that he was a communist you got that from the picture of my client correct that was my understanding at the time you don't have any other there was no other information that you had uh leading anyone to believe that the florida shooter supported communism well jones back during the las vegas shooting he showed me a text from one of his sources that was somehow tied to the fbi hostage rescue team during that shooting that said that there was a bunch of antifa paraphernalia all over the hotel room so that kind of got me into that line of thinking so now just anytime anyone fires a weapon off near you you just immediately look for something that looks antifa like no that was what the source said okay what does that have anything to do with

this story that just kind of put me in the mindset so you were brainwashed by mr jones i wouldn't say i was brainwashed it sounds like you he showed you something from a source and from there on out you were in a mindset to assume and look for antifa well i wasn't going to disclute it oh not disclute it we're gonna run out with it we're gonna it's gonna leave what am i gonna say what am i gonna leave it out sure the possibility based on this text that alex showed of an alleged source okay all right so as a source said it was antifa and obviously i called him a commie what don't you understand well no no no the source said that there was antifa literature i think los vegas shooter which right prior to this and a different right right so other shootings now we've

got to just throw yeah because that is now an established talking point within the world of info wars and so alex would want him to include other things so you can make connections between things where there is no actual connection right and build the grander conspiracy right so it does not understand this clearly i don't think so but i do think there is some subconscious understanding yeah of it you can and that's the stuff that i think is being kind of revealed through this questioning totally and that thank god he did just decide to answer questions he didn't need to my god so uh this leads to the actual discussion of the fontane photo that kate included it in his article and in the in the picture it's marcel holding up his fist and he's wearing a shirt

that if you don't pay attention to it might look like a communist shirt um but it is revealed in this in this next clip what the shirt actually is great what does antifa stand for anti fascist i think okay what does everybody that's an antifa support communism i don't know you didn't put anything about antifa in your story did you did you want anything the photo of mr fontane if i remember correctly looked like a communist shirt flip the page it's in front of you it looks like a communist shirt if you look closely do you recognize that shirt as a parody on the communist party where certain communist individuals that are famous are having a party

for instance linen has a lampshade on his head and people are drinking did you even realize that no i did not you just saw a red shirt with this with the hammer and simple and you said gotta be communism that was my assumption at the time especially considering his uh fists like that is somebody raising their fists like this has that been um used for any other movements possibly but in this photo that combined one i see a red shirt with the hammer and sickle bam gotta be communism in your eyes well it was my assumption that it looks like something like a communist okay in the in the headline it doesn't say my assumption is that he might be communist did you say that no i sure didn't so we kind of have these fundamental claims

that kit was leading with like the dressed like an ices fighter in syria supported ices was a kami right and all of this is shown to be based on the flimsiest and the evidence is actually contradictory to the claims that uh it would lead you to the opposite conclusion or at least the absence of a conclusion um and i think that that's pretty clearly demonstrated totally and so bill asks how do you think you did on this one one out of ten rate your performance on this article let's say about a two or three really you got the two part of it was got you to about kind of everything you said if i had this to do all over again i wouldn't have done it this way frankly i think this is my one of my worst performing articles i've ever done

yeah i think so probably uh but here here's what's what's interesting about this because i had to listen to that a couple times uh bill's asking one to ten right how do you give yourself a rank and he says two or three right bill is shocked how did you get to two right and kit interprets that is how did you get down to two yeah how did you get down to do as opposed to what deserves to never occurred to him to think that oh he's looking for me to justify why it's better than a should be a zero yeah no no he's like why isn't this a ten i wish i wish i could listen to this episode with zero understand with zero context for info wars or anything just the idea of listening to somebody go like oh i called him a communist and he's like you realize that the shirt had

linen wearing a lampshade on it right just that moment sure like this is really happening this is not fake it would be strange to see what kind of conclusions you would draw about info wars based on it like right just sight unseen of all the other stuff we know i don't think it would come across positively wouldn't go well um so marcell's face is the only one that's visible right in the pictures that kit put into the article and that that's a problem because if you're looking at the article you would maybe assume that it's the same face under those masks yeah that are on the instagram account you would have to and that is at play you would agree with me that in exhibit one yes the only photograph of the alleged shooter with that is the only

photograph with an unobscured face is mr fontein yes so when you started spreading photos of the shooter the only one that anyone can see a face isn't even the right person correct did you do you know what a reverse in this search is right i'm familiar with it okay did you do what i remember typing in nicholas cruise on google images and unfortunately the photos that were coming up were of mr fontein okay i didn't ask that question i know i'm just that's just me me clarifying i asked you whether or not you did a reverse image i don't remember and the answers no you did not yeah the answer is no yeah um so that's poor practice probably um one of the things too that that sort of is a hallmark of this deposition is that there's a kind of non-linear aspect to the

questions that are asked yeah some things like as you noticed with the voter registration it came up at the beginning right and then came back up and here the notion of journalism comes back up and this uh unfortunately kit has referred to himself as a video journalist oh no now this introduces an entirely new wrinkle of what does this mean oh boy your declaration in front of you yes if we look at paragraph two says you're a video journalist and you use the term journalist video journalist right journalist though is you don't get in the context of video journalism correct what's the difference between regular journalism and video journal i use the term video journalist because i really didn't know how to describe myself to the best of my ability as

far as going out and shooting videos interviewing people and then writing stories about those videos i didn't do that very often if at all okay so you just shoot videos and then give them to somebody else no i'd shoot videos upload them to the website okay and you wouldn't write anything at the bottom or a story with with the video typically not i never i generally never had time to i would just shoot a video and just upload it to youtube and then we'd embed it on it for worse yeah so you'd be a news reporter it'd be like a you know i never i i mean normally in the company we use the phrase reporter referred to on-air talent right but you were taking video doing interviews and uploading them to the public right yes so when you see news cameras out in the field in their little vans and

they pull over and set up the camera and do an interview there's nothing different from that and what you were doing well they had a lot more equipment they had a van that's fine you don't have a van or that equipment but you got a camera and you have a mouth correct yeah but unfortunately there's a lot of interviews i couldn't do because it seems like when you have a small camera people think you're small time so they're not gonna oh my god why are you telling them this what are you doing kit the god damn it the splitting hairs but these definitions is so weird what are you doing yeah kit what are you well you know i mean sure i do all the things but am i i do really i do everything that's exactly the same as people i would describe as journalists except i don't

have a van and i use an iphone my camera is too small yes my camera is too small for me to be a journalist man come on right in fours is fifty million dollars in debt we can't afford impressive cameras in a van i'll expand all the budget on a tank yeah yeah i can't take that out so uh kit justifies his use of the image of marcel that he uses uh by claiming that quote the image was trending ah see he was trending right and that is also a problem when you look at reality you turn the page the page paragraph three yes it says i've published an image of a man that i had obtained from the popular image and web board entitled four-chan mm-hmm it says i went to the four-chan website after i had seen the challenged image trending on social media yes okay how does

how does an image trend when you see it all low when you go on like your twitter news feed and you just see it all over the place or even maybe your facebook news feed it's just everywhere and under oath right now to this jury you're telling them that you saw mr fontaine's photo all over your news feed that's my understanding if i recall correctly okay do you know how many times at the time the article was published do you know how many time how many times that image had been posted on twitter no do you know how many times have been posted on facebook no would it surprise you a lot to know that it was less than a dozen all right a little time frame between the shooting and your article going live

on big all the water trending well maybe i'm maybe i just happen to see all of them good saying that i like i like that one that's a good one maybe i happen to be following all of the accounts i caught them all man listen maybe you just don't have as many cool friends as i do yeah that's oh god that's grim so the justification is in kit's statement is that david that he's sworn it includes a image of somebody posting this picture of marcel on twitter prior to kit putting out the article right and this also reveals gonna have bad news it's gonna be kid isn't it no but it is uh what turns out to be a troll twitter account

and unfortunately in the conversation of this we learn another gap in kit's information base that is truly staggering in paragraph three of your declaration yes you also talk about laguna beach antifa you see that yes okay you relied on laguna beach antifas tweet correct no would it surprise you to know that it was the only original source at the time that had posted it and all others that you would have seen would have been reposted that would surprise me okay i'm sorry to check out would surprise me now that we've established that because that surprised me you your testimony in this affidavit is that the laguna beach antifa twitter post was at

two thirty seven p.m hours before i posted the challenged image on the info wars website yes two thirty seven p.m what time zone i believe that would be a central time why would you think that because that's the time zone i'm in would it surprise you to know that if you go to the laguna beach page that's not that doesn't correlate it correlates with california time i was i was on the impression they were out of florida would it surprise you you think you think laguna beaches in california yes wow laguna beach florida oh my god these are unforced errors in trying to explain himself he reveals these just remarkable uh uh misconceptions that he has

ala akbar is something that only isis people say uh this slur isn't a slur uh laguna beach is in florida it's it's this is sad it feels like if you are going to prepare kit daniels for this deposition you have to be as honest square one as honest as any human being has ever been and just start with they know the true answers to the questions they're going to ask you yeah so your instinct is going to be wrong yes you do not know the true answers to what they're quite answering you you can't know you cannot so any answer you have is only bad for us there's a human impulse uh to explain yourself you want to be friends yes you want to explain no listen let me explain why i don't feel like what i did was bad don't just don't do that i get i guess a

good way to prep him would just be like watch every episode of law and order i mean a good way to prep him is like a fucking mafia prep where he wakes up in a goddamn river like that's the type of prep you need to do for this this shit it's it's just i don't know what you would do i mean it that like you'd have to deal with so many like just first concepts yeah absolutely in order to be like you can handle being like cross-examined by somebody sir some things are and some things aren't wait wait wait wait wait yeah okay all right let's start from the beginning so this antifa account apparently was pretty new by the way that's the fake account it is a troll account yeah but it was it might have been might have been this tweet might have been pretty fresh

when kick got his hands on it oh no would what time did you post the article it was approximately four p.m or after it's about 23 minutes it had been up on laguna beach antifa's page for 23 minutes how long had you been following laguna beach antifa on twitter i wasn't following them on twitter how did you get to it i did not what's it doing in your affidavit so kevin brown went and found an example of fontaine's photo on social media that predated when i put it up on info wars why didn't you just go get the original i didn't remember i couldn't find the original unfortunately how long did you look uh 30 40 minutes that's it i mean maybe longer maybe or was well i couldn't find i went back and

looked at the for the before i uh screenshot it for fortune i could not find the thread i did i do remember looking forward on social media and unfortunately a lot of people were deleting it by the time i was looking for it for the discovery process why were they deleting it i don't know because it was wrong possibly yes or because there were a bunch of twitter pages set up quickly that posted this image as troll pages to see if any news media outlets would pick it up and run the story that's a that's a possibility do you believe you're a victim of some internet trolls that just got the best of you because you weren't paying attention i think i was duped definitely i think you were too i i love that he instantly responded with what he thought was a solid amount of

research time 30 minutes 30 to 40 minutes and when he was questioned on that immediately he was like maybe it was longer i didn't know supposed to be longer was it supposed to be longer but but like 30 minutes to try and find this if you had found it that would be a reasonable amount of time to have spent because that seems like about how long it might take you to take you about that long to find you fail to find it then we're in trouble gave up pretty pretty easily oh well so now we we re explore this notion of alex told him about the antifa literature at the los vegas shooting right so this antifa idea is connected to this shooting somehow which then has been translated into communism right which makes sense to kit yes and this is why the only thing he got from his

photo was that he you didn't even understand the t-shirt he was wearing what motivation did you add to the story with well it was hard to understand that the t-shirt he was wearing kind of looking at it i mean it had a hammer and sickle it was red colored at the time i couldn't tell it was a parody shirt okay what what did that what did his photo add to your story well like i said i was told in the los vegas shooting that there was antifa paraphernalia all over the shooter's room that got me in the mindset to consider that there might be some sort of communist antifa link to some of these shootings going on okay what did mr fontaine's photo add to the article yeah i thought it was a photo of nicolas

cruise at the time and you believe that everyone in antifa supports communism i don't know then how did you get to oh i saw hammer and sickle and it was red because i because normally i i when i see a hammer hammer and sickle in a red shirt i think of communism okay how do you get to antifa what's that how do you go from communism to antifa just what i was told about the los vegas shooting so for alex jones is the reason why you assumed everyone in antifa supports communism i never said that you you added the picture of mr fontaine because he had a communism shirt on in your eyes yes okay you added that because mr jones showed you some information that led you to believe there might be an antifa related um ideology behind these shootings yes how do you get from communism

with mr fontaine's shirt to him being antifa it's in the same spectrum politically i mean antifa tip is typically left leaning communism is typically left leaning that's that's how you got to the headline of your story yes oh a swing and a miss man he feels they're both left leaning i feel like kit daniels should really just be going like dude you are blowing my mind what are you saying i'm saying that antifa and communism uh they're the same and you're like have you thought about it and i'm realizing that i have not right and this leads to a line of questioning about like ah now what about now why did you offer this why didn't you

blame obama he is also left leaning that's a troubling yeah now we're in trouble to go down so we return to the issue of the reverse image search because obviously this is leading to information that bill already has at his disposal of what he would have found had he done a reverse image search right when did you when did you learn what a reverse image search was i don't remember unfortunately okay was it you know just now six months ago six years ago i don't remember have you known about it for a while i'd say so okay and have you run one on this image i don't remember standing here today have you run one ever i've done it in the past yes on this image on the fontain image yes i don't remember okay it's not hard to do right it depends how do you

do a reverse image search uh oh no sometimes i use ten i dot com sometimes i try to use google okay both of those you just copy and paste the image right yeah with google's tends to be kind of finicky regardless it's not hard to do right yes and standing here today did you know that if you do a reverse image search you'll find mr fontain's photo the exact one with the exact same commentary at the bottom posted four days before the shooting ever happened did you know that no it's kind of an important fact right especially if you could have done a reverse image search before spreading his photograph all over the nation alleging him to be a mass shooter right

right i don't you are blowing my mind man what are you saying reverse image search before i post why yeah that could have saved some trouble here that is the first time it ever occurred to him to have done that before posting well i don't know about that based on our next clip but also never has that noise been more appropriate you know so you're saying that he'd never thought about the idea of of reverse image searching before right unfortunately the plaintiff's attorneys are they have at their disposal kits previous work oh no have you seen this before i vaguely remember writing it okay in this article you talk about how reckless it is for people to not run reverse image searches don't you what does that say that article is dated november fifth 2016

correct oh sorry uh yes and that's over a year before you did you publish mr fontain's photograph and the headline says law enforcement begs world read hillary's email hillary emails to find child rape evidence and then it says hillary linked to child sex ring comma emails suggest yes okay we flipped to page eight says the seller attached a picture of a beanie baby collection to the email but using a reverse image search the image appeared to be a publicly available photo that appeared on several blogs as far back as october 2014 and perhaps even earlier the seller's email was dated june 2015 i read that correctly yes so you knew what a reverse image search was at the time yes you'd done it before you posted mr fontain's photo to the world yes why didn't you do one

i don't remember but i if i didn't do it for montane's photo i regret not doing it i bet yep i bet yep i would imagine so there is something so satisfying i guess because he works for infowars about that like you didn't do a reverse image search and you would have found that your story was complete bullshit right if you had done one oh also here's a article where you're scolding people for not doing a reverse image search do you know what it feels like it feels like a constant repetition of that jackass uh sketch where they have the giant hand the nomadic or the uh the yeah and the guy's carrying the tray of drinks or whatever and he's just walking right into boom and it explodes in his face every question he's he's just like he had he knows that

the thing he's answering after that is you know you wrote this article right but what what's kind of remarkable about it too is that he doesn't seem to ever realize a hand's coming no no clue it's every single time it's a little troubling he walks towards that door with all those drinks and he gets smashed by the hand again yeah so because this reverse image search article that kit has written about something to do with the pedestrian emails and clinton has been brought up right now kits pizza gate coverage oh boy here we go defend this well he actually does the way he does it is by throwing alex the fuck under the bus good call just flip to the next page page nine the second full paragraph says other strange emails sent to podesta include cryptic

references to pizza hot dogs pasta and walnuts which are fueling speculation they are code words for criminal activity including child molestation i read that correctly right yes this is a bunch of pizza gate nonsense right i don't know if this was necessarily involved with pizza gate oh yeah my understanding of pizza gate had to do with the comet pinpaw and pizza right where did all of that start i don't know desta emails with cryptic references about pizza and child molestation you know that right i'm not wasn't that i wasn't involved with the comet pinpaw as far as i remember yet you wrote an article about linking hillary clinton to a child sex marine if i remember correctly i think alex jones gave me the headline in the

sub headline for this article who gave you the content in the article i think it was i think i worked with it with jones okay but i don't remember unfortunately one thing we do know is that here you are again writing about a story that turned out to not only not be true but people acted on it right what are you referring to a gentleman with an with an ar-15 walking into a pizzeria firing his weapon because he was convinced there was a child sex ring being run out of it did i say anything about a pizza pizzeria in this article beautiful no i'm saying you're reporting on the information that led to that pizzeria i'm pretty sure about that what do you think the name of that pizzeria came from i have no idea pedestrian like i said i didn't i wasn't that

involved with the comet pinpaw stuff at all no but you were involved with spreading the disinformation about these non cryptic messages well that's the emails true it was alex jones that told me that pizza hot dogs pasta walnuts were all code words and i believe that was also fbi symbolism for you do believe that for child molestation do you still believe that i don't know i was just i was just trying to vaguely remember what it this is from 2016 memories a little bit fuzzy why on earth would you believe that the fbi had code words like that for child well because the fbi would would point out hey if you ever hear these code words this could be a signal for child molestation so be on the lookout for it where'd you learn that it was a i believe

isn't a bulletin fbi bulletin do you you're sure that's what i remember let me back up are you sure that what you're referring to is an actual real fbi document i vaguely remember scene one vaguely man but like uh there there's this like what what is what this headline i think alex gave me that headline yeah alex told me this stuff i can't it's kind of becoming you know this is going to be a theme right that there's like i got that from alex yeah that's bad i can't believe he hasn't already how how far into the deposition we're at least an hour into the deposition by yeah yeah yeah i can't believe he hasn't already realized that if he gets the question do you think that was a real document he knows the answer to that already sure like he doesn't he just can't process that

yeah he thinks that anybody asking him a question is genuinely interested in his response to it or there's a possibility that based on your answer the information the other person has will be affected exactly you know and that's yeah i mean it's optimistic in some ways it is it is he he's it's it's a little donkey hote it is it is more uh yeah panza yeah so uh the uh bill decides uh that a good approach to take here would be um what have you ever gotten right good call bill unfortunately i've watched a lot of info wars program and i think i've read every word that you've ever written so when i'm asking you these stories i kind of know what the answers are so what else have y'all gotten right and i'll give you two give you time epstein and jesse smollett

i'll give you those two guesses that y'all ended up getting right what else we uh trying to think there's just so many of them so many i'll wait just give me one and gulfa tonkin doesn't count y'all weren't a company when it happened i said i said the gulfa tonkin doesn't count they weren't a company when it happened i want that on the record please we can sit in this awkward silence as long as you need to think of one time where y'all were right well there's just so many like stories we've covered over the years is a little bit hard for me to kind of just pick one then there's so many well that's kind of the problem there's so many

it's like it's kind of like on spotify like let me stop you here you keep thinking we'll wait in silence okay that's not not good come on come on just let me get out of this one just let me get out of this one there's so many just nothing but time no just let me get out of this one listen i'll answer all your questions sir i'll get on my knees just don't make me answer if anything i've ever written is true it's an embarrassment of correctness and so i have too much to choose from yeah i think the reality of that is obviously you'd be very worried about saying anything definitively yeah because there will be a follow-up question oh yeah and you can't really back up what you're gonna say probably nope so uh this is this is another moment of kit

being like a normal human sort of and that is the question is posed to him do you believe that you and info wars are responsible for the coverage that you put out that affected my client right and kit like a normal human accepts that responsibility oh my god you believe you and or info wars share responsibility in what mr fontaine has gone through i regret posting his photo and what he's gone through i didn't ask you how you felt i asked if you're gonna if you're gonna hold yourself and the company responsible for doing what you did to him yes okay and that goes for both you and the company yes oh are you aware that the company testified day before yesterday and they said we don't have any responsibility no i'm not aware of that you

would disagree with that i'm not putting more position there i understand that's your job we we know we know the answer i just asked it and i can follow i'll strike the question i got your answer oh that's tough even even listen even bill at this point is throwing him that listen we already know the answer yeah he's really trying to help him out he's not he's not hitting as hard as he probably could i really do feel like bill is is like giving him this this like i don't know what to call it just a sense of like man i could really tear your ass into shreds you know that well there there it comes back to the thing the dynamic you were talking about at the beginning is just this feeling of there are just you say things that you don't need to say in response to questions that you

could dodge or not answer totally instead you offer more information insane that it's basically like if it were a boxing metaphor it would be like you're leaving your midsection exposed constantly right all right you've got your hands over your head and you're saying i'm gonna get you oh i'm gonna get you so this next clip is where the sort of the main headline surrounding this deposition is that kit started crying right and this is the clip where that happens right right and i'm going to give a little bit of just a warning in advance there's some language that's used regarding fontaine that that comes from four-chan posts okay that i think would some would probably find offensive right and just for the sake of you know it's on the record right here is that

i'm gonna go ahead and assume you've never seen this february 10th post from four-chan either no okay if you flip to page three yes what do we see uh photo of mr fontaine okay and that's four days before the shooting ah correct yes so this post is if you go to the first page is is a sub page of four-chan called politically incorrect right yeah i believe so yes and the caption of this thread is anti-foot aspy lefty communist cringe thread that's what it says show me your worst unironic lefty dimwits commies etc you found while surfing the internet social media okay and you understand mr fontaine was posted by someone to this thread it's what it appears to be yes you know do you are you aware that mr fontaine suffers from any mental health diseases no would that affect the

way you feel about him if he did yeah because i've felt the same way at times i'm gonna represent to you that mr fontaine has been clinically diagnosed with being on the autism spectrum and has been for a while he doesn't like he's socially not very developed as you are today speaking of the drill and has dealt with mental health issues both before and continues now remember how you said you felt whenever you got death threats right yes now i want you to imagine and you do not have any sort of mental health diseases that you know of correct no i've suffered from depression okay have you suffered from autism social anxiety do you have an inability to work in large groups of people and deal with a lot a lot of people in person i do okay and you can

sympathize a little bit more with mr fontaine for what he went through and i understand you're upset and i'm not trying to i'm not upset just take your time i can understand this the suffering he's been through deal with mental health issues take your time i understand you're upset if you want to take a few seconds we let's take yeah let's take a break and get him some tissues we'll go off the record madam reporter it's 12 30 p.m. we're off the record so they go to break uh understandably i think that's probably a human impulse right they did he did do a plug for uh you got a super veil of vitality when they went to break just take yeah it's important yeah um i think that a lot of people have

drawn attention to this and i i think it's interesting obviously that he started crying but i also think that it's probably the most human response to the information that he's being presented with and i i don't think that it's something that's mock worthy or anything i think that it shows an ability to empathize with somebody when forced to you know i i i think right right right i think that obviously he should have recognized the pain that he was causing through this sloppy ass work sure prior to this sure you would hope that right but i don't i still find it very difficult to criticize um that response i i think this is a really good example of what we've talked about from the very beginning uh with and with

alex it's uh you know we've kind of come to a clearer idea it's less ambiguous but that stupid v evil continuum right you know you can be stupid and you know still do evil shit but it's kind of clear here that kit daniels is not in the vindictive or malicious or even a kernel of evil but totally kind of dumb and unaware he's just kind of he's just kind of an idiot who i mean unless he's a fucking kaiser so say level mastermind right here uh then he's kind of an idiot who has been lied to by alex jones and intimidated by everybody else i don't i don't know what conclusion to draw but i think you know you that's certainly a fair reading that you can you can take i i i was really i knew like i i knew going in watching this that he started crying and i still felt when it happened

that it was shocking yeah like it was it still shocked me because first of all it kind of happens fairly quick it does it doesn't seem to be it doesn't it doesn't build very naturally to it but what when it felt like to me was somebody's dissonance really being challenged yeah like the the notion that like this is what i do for a living and this is what if i wasn't getting sued for this i probably wouldn't even recognize that i had done something wrong right and here i am seeing parts of myself in the victim of what i've done these thoughts just sort of tearing yeah it in the brain and i don't know it's hard it's it's hard to look at it it is honestly the thing that it reminds me of most is evangelical children and how they grow up

and one of the things that will almost always wind up happening when an evangelical child leaves the faith for good is they will have a very big conversation and they will suddenly start crying and they don't entirely know why based upon the questions and the conversations and the thought they're having and the reality is the reason it's happening is because they're going through this strange moment where everything they have ever believed comes into contact with a immovable force your reality is being challenged absolute mind crushing pressure from that and so you just always cry and it just happens now conversely it's like cult deprogramming as well but but conversely you have situations like the daria deposition or alex's deposition

where they're being confronted with like very incontrovertible instances of the harm and damage that came to these the victims of these these narratives right these things that they put out and they did not bat an eyelash no i think they had no re like alex gave lip service to like you know for example the emails that wolfgang halbig sat harassing sure sure he gave lip service to like this is horrible is wrong right i remember but there wasn't any kind of an emotional reaction or worse no and with daria was even worse and colder she's ice cold but this this this feels like there's some humanity there that's crying out and it feels yeah but that's why i bring up evangelical because it it feels like the difference between a believer and

somebody who is raised in the church you know like somebody who is raised in the church has been surrounded by nothing but this type of information for such a long time that it's assumed to be true right believers it doesn't matter what you do it does not matter what you do you cannot talk to them in a way that will cut through their belief system but if you're just somebody who is raised around it and is just absorbed it then eventually you can go like oh shit what the fuck is around me you know yeah and i don't know maybe there is an element too that it's kind of really shocking to see that we're making more out of it than really it's possible it is possible i mean yeah who knows it's it's really tough to interpret and one of the things

that makes it even more difficult is that like to the best of my knowledge kit didn't immediately quit right so like i i don't know right i mean and furthermore because simply because of what we do we're so unused to people having human moments on our show well now it's fixed crying all the time that's very clearly real yeah so it's like i don't even know if anything's true when it comes to human emotions on this show right or what is actually underlying that human emotion even if it is real i mean it literally could be him crying because he realized that he's so fucked you know i feel like that's doubtful based on just the surrounding information that was being discussed absolutely but there's also like i mean if you wanted to get really cynical with it there could

just be a crying about his own pain yeah not empathizing necessarily yeah you're just reminding me that i'm get depressed right and those painful memories from my own existence are what's motivating this totally i don't know if that's the case it doesn't really feel like it feels like there's an empathetic quality to it it does but again i might just be seeing some things that i would prefer to see as opposed to this is just a total selfish oh no totally i want to believe that he is uh you know it's it's one of those things where i have that absolute bias as well like i want to believe i want to believe that somebody can change you know fox molder i want to i want to do it i want to night's tale this well because it's it's it's preferable to like

thinking that this is an organization that's full of monsters yeah exactly so they they take the break and they come back and one of the things that i think bill is trying to do here is really force a kit to recognize the cesspool that his information comes from right so like this four chan uh that he got his information from share uh so there's more uh offensive language here so just a heads up on that if we look at page two okay there's a picture above mr fontaine's right here okay all right that's mr fontaine in the middle oh okay can you please read the comment that was posted with it i'd rather not but i will because you asked me it says same as p commie faggot okay go down two or actually go down one what does the next one say

the nose the nose what's the next one say what is it with the they them pronouns aren't they plural pronouns would you understand that to be a comment related to mr fontaine being a non-binary identifying individual uh i i i guess just because i'm not terribly familiar with the terminology okay it means i'll represent you the mr fontaine does not identify as a male or a female okay okay i get you know yes okay i see my god that's what if you go up one that's what the they them yes they're picking apart the public information they find on him and using that to make fun of him um then you see the photo of mr fontaine yes right under that you see a picture that was posted correct it looks like it was a screenshot of a video okay can you tell me what

the file name was left wing death squad okay go to the next one yes can you read it for us yes i can guarantee that this loser works at the pallid i'm sorry i can't pronounce palladium in warchester massachusetts they play loads of metal shows far more than any other genre do you know where mr fontaine works no i'm gonna represent to you that at the time you worked at the palladium in warchester massachusetts so the demonstration here is of the intensely bigoted nature of the harassment that uh kit continued yeah knowingly or unknowingly or through negligence uh and the doxing and all of this is a the kernel from which his reporting uh bloomed right or right or whatever and it's i mean it's a bummer yeah you see all these pieces of

shit yeah you're one of them how do you feel about that not only you're one of them it's more you have taken their uh goals and achieved them for them yes you've spread this harassment to a much larger audience than would be available on this uh poll board yeah you know and it's uh and and in some ways created a more mainstream ish place right where it's happening right uh and you know i think i think if kit is dealing with what's being shown to him i think it should be a terrifying like oh that should be a wake-up call oh i mean yeah yikes yeah the fact that he didn't quit immediately after this deposition says it says a lot but then again i i don't know i i can't really say that with certainty i don't know what his employment status is that's fair you know like i haven't

gone to the website enough to know if he has byline right right right necessarily but i haven't heard anything i i would say that if you didn't quit that speaks volumes yeah yep um but oh well anyway he fell for a fourchan thing uh and unfortunately a year prior he'd written another article this is your article correct i believe so yes it's got your name on it yes can you tell me what the what the headline is bbc falls victim to fourchan trolling msn caught sounding like idiots it's kind of ironic huh i would agree yes and you wrote this article uh in august of 2017 right yes about eight months before you wrote the article in question today yes now the subheading catches my eye can you read it for me please bbc claims visiting fourchan

constitutes investigative journalism and that's your your subheading there is pointing out and making fun of bbc for falling victim and for thinking that fourchan's reliable correct something to that effect okay you'd agree this one didn't really age well huh i would agree so the there's a there's ability for kit to kind of laugh about this stuff after wild after he's sort of purged himself yeah yeah it's weird it's very weird yeah that's like flipping a weird switch i know what an idiot i look like now right i gotta say oh man uh remember i was crying for destroying that guy's life man i feel like i've got egg on my face falling for a fourchan troll prank after a year after complaining that other people look like idiots because they fell for one

yeah that kind of makes it appear that i was aware that that's something i should be looking out for right huh that doesn't look man that did not age well nope ha so there's a another aspect to the parkland shooting that kit covered and that is that there were some bags that cops were taken to a car sure and this is suspicious of course right yeah um and so kit posted an article making make some questions about these guys gotta ask questions and so this next clip is an attempt to get kit to understand that this is not asking questions what you're doing is not asking questions oh my god is this a 45 minute long clip three you are you contending here under oath that the investigating officers of this shooting were improper and what they did i just the way i

wrote this article i just i thought at the time of the video it seemed a little odd i'm not saying that they did anything improper sure but let me do this um if if you and i go outside of this building and we're standing there and a school bus of children drive by and i say i was really odd how you just looked at that little girl i'm implying something but i can say i'm just asking questions but it's not really a question you get that right i i don't know if that's uh if that's equivalent to this well sure it is i'm just asking questions no i'm i literally was i mean to me it did seem a little odd that they were carrying it at the time and it was pointed out to me i believe it was a gelence maybe one of the radio production crews brought

me this video why do you keep looking at me like you realize this is clickbait but you don't want to admit it because that's not my i'm just asking questions you're the one that keeps ringing up the word clickbait yeah look in my opinion they look like you're saying clickbait and that's so i'm just my eyes are saying clickbait right i'm just asking questions you see how this works when someone has an opinion i'm sorry you've lost me all right here yeah yep yep you rude yep that's fine when someone has an opinion kit and then they inject that opinion into a loaded question with an agenda and they but they do it in a form of a question and then they say whoa whoa i'm just asking questions that's not actually asking questions you don't care what the answers are that's what your opinion is

okay what are the answers you know i know did you go look what do you mean did you did you go through the files of parkland and look and see what bag was put in that truck no did you look go try to search and find out who these officers were not after this no because it's not important the important part is that you got body bag and and responders acting suspicious the day after the shooting that's the important part not the actual truth right that's what you're implying but what'd you do to find the truth what'd you do to answer these questions let's put it this way just answer my questions i will answer your question what'd you do if i were to go back and do foyer requests to find any of this out weeks later i'm sorry the audience has already moved

away from parkland right you were writing stories to get your audience to read them now no i'm writing stories that the audience is already paying attention to how do you know where your audience is going to pay attention to in two weeks how do you know they won't still want to know oh yeah what are the answers because unfortunately that's how the world works nowadays people have a short attention span doesn't sound like these questions are very important than does it that's what you're i don't understand what you're saying well if you had all these important questions right but never even attempted to figure out the answers they're not that important are they i guess that's your opinion that is a tough thing to get around absolutely just asking

questions but i also don't care about the answers that's that's a tough uh that's a tough needle to thread i genuinely believe he does not understand what is being explained to him i do too especially that uh the part where like your eyes seem to be saying oh no he was like i'm i'm in a completely different world sir right please that was even making clear like you see how this works i'm doing this to you yeah and he did not just can't get there nope the idea of answering a question does seem anathema to kit daniels well he says possibly a lot and he yeah that it that does come up uh bill tells him to stop it hey maybe and uh he does say unfortunately i'm not a lot too if you know looking back on it i would have preferred to have done my job completely differently from

the beginning yeah yeah so you you know obviously question asking that itself isn't bad but this brings up the the notion of you got to ask the right questions oh boy this is going to be a 45 minute long clip just a minute in your opinion are these questions important when we're trying to figure out what's going on with the mass shooting it is important to ask questions the right questions what who decides what the right right well if they're wrong we know which ones are the wrong questions right what no i don't know i don't know where you're getting at wrong questions are the questions that are put out there that nobody cares about and nobody actually goes and tries to answer like your article says who you try to be that

important to you you don't even care what the answer is what do you mean did you just said you did not go and do anything to get the answers for a request would have taken too long my readers wouldn't have liked that so how important can they be here's the problem i can't i can't force readers to care about things if i wrote about something three or four weeks after the fact unfortunately people are just not going to care that much so info wars audience only cares about the questions that are asked immediately and they don't care about the answers the news audience in general tends to only focus on the stories of the day and they're not necessarily focused too much on stories that would happen two three or four weeks ago okay sure where'd you get

that info that's just common knowledge no it's not oops oops kit you're selling yourself short there buddy are you saying that people don't want to read your work based upon the merits of your work not if it's a couple days old sure don't hey listen i have got nothing interesting to say unless you are already paying attention yeah i think that things are a little contentious here permission to treat the witness as stupid um and so i think in cases like that in situations like that it's important to bring things back to the center and find some agreement which they are able to do here sure i'll tell you this jealous has told me years ago that we were not investigative journalists i can i can i will agree with him on that now whether or not you made your audience

and i can i think okay okay i'm sorry now whether or not you made your audience believe you were is a completely different question but there is no doubt in my mind that nothing that you do is actually investigative journalism i would agree with that the problem i have is that alex jones is motto and something he's repeated over and over and over again is we are the truth in what starts with the j and ends with an urinalism still don't know i where did you see that at on his show i don't know once or twice every three hours at least for the first three hundred hours i spent listening to him when he's well unfortunately i can't speak for jones okay so if mr jones the owner of the company says info wars we're the truth in journalism he's lying in

your opinion i didn't say that well you said you're not journalists oh man oh man oh no oh god damn it the these are the kind of things that you just have to assume that either no one at info wars cares or led to horrible conversations i mean just just like it could not be more a man walking through a fucking crowded street of carriages while two people are carrying a pane of glass and there's fucking watermelon carts everywhere like he is stepping into an absolute disaster every time he speaks yeah amazing just imagine him going to work and be like hey boss so i blamed you for a bunch of things i told them that you aren't journalism if you say you are you lying and also i said that it for wars is responsible for the coverage i am starting to think i am not

gonna have a good day today yeah yeah i don't need to sit down i can just i go back to my desk it's a good thing i'm well practiced as apologizing for things i did wrong yep but i think at this point kit really does want to get out of the line of questioning where it's like hey you didn't even look into any of this sure sure yeah i would imagine so and so it's someone else's fault let me ask you something what was in this bag i don't know was it weapons i don't know how many shooters were involved here was it just one or more i don't know okay what what was why did it take two trained professionals to carry this bag i don't know okay is it is there swat gear in that bag i don't know are these questions that you find important

i don't know i don't know okay well they're not important enough for you to go and answer right we know that well if i remember correctly i wrote this article at the behest of somebody else somebody told you to write i believe so i think it was jones or a radio producer like i said and jones said here's some footage this is what i want you to i don't remember i just vaguely remember someone asked me to write this article okay so this article would have been about it is not necessarily your beliefs you just wrote something that somebody asked you to write basically yes it's my understanding of it and you would agree with me these aren't these aren't you don't actually care what the answers are of these questions right i mean

wow exasperated size probably about the best you can do you know response to that here's my answer to your question sir um i am very tired and you make me feel very bad about myself i would like to not do this anymore can we do that it's alex's fault yeah or some producer somebody else told me to do this i frankly i mean let's be honest did you hear me try and read the things you asked me to read do you think i'm good at reading or writing so this this there's still another matter to be it's still the question of like not answering these questions because they're not important right all right this is still being driven we're really trying to get this home to kit because i think it is important it is if you thought these questions were important you would

have asked you would have gone and looked for the answers at some point between february 2018 and today february of 2022 right like i said i don't consider myself an investigative journalist i consider myself more as a social commentator i don't even believe i've ever done a spoiler request as far as i could recall amazing answer is easy to my question i'm not trying to trick you don't care what the answers are to these questions right you're just asking them i think i would i would have been interested if i could find the answers of it like within a couple of days of the shooting are you saying you couldn't find those answers i mean no you're not saying that what's that you're i'm saying i doubt i could have found the answers to these questions a couple

of days within the shooting mr daniels you didn't even try you know because i didn't think i could these days you never tried because i'm not an investigative journalist right so why do you find me on these questions because i maybe i just don't understand the questions maybe i'm just trying to put it out there that sometimes info wars has articles to go out whether written in your perspective or on behalf of somebody else that ask questions quote unquote to stir up fear or stir up a conspiracy theorist like there was a body in the bag or there was weapons in the bag or that there was swat gear in the bag or that it was a dead body or that um um that the bag that this was taken during the shooting all of these just questions they're all

there just to incite people to to say oh my gosh something might be up and then where do they start going for information they start coming back to www.fillintheblank.infowars.com because that's where this all started it's tough for kit to refute any of this right because it is a pretty apt description of what he did yeah this is just exciting questions to tickle the brains of people who are drawn towards conspiracies to imply that you have some kind of information that isn't accessible anywhere else right and then get them into your revenue stream more or less and i get it he's trapped in uh fucking fox news right wing propaganda brain where the idea is never i mean the job of right wing media is to remove curiosity by destroying the value of questions you know like

oh gay marriage what's next are you gonna marry your dog you don't actually want to know what's next what's next is more equality and everybody gets better you want to next is yeah questions getting married yeah questions don't mean anything questions are just reasons to hate yep yep so there's a there's a fundamental issue going on and that is that the retraction of this story was not done correctly right the one about that involved the picture of Marcel Fontaine um and so kit has an excuse about this that is troubling do you know what date mr fontaine filed a lawsuit around that same time frame april first 2018 and he did that because the standard language that should have been in the original one it's not just okay for you to take

the photo out this is what's required okay and because he gave you two over two weeks and nobody did anything about it that's where this comes from mm-hmm do you find the retraction clarification in correction a bit disingenuous considering it was in response to getting sued no if he here's my problem i've told uh my counsel is if this is an attorney client conversation it's privileged okay well i'm not going to say what i told you then well you can say what you told her you're not supposed to tell me what she what legal advice she gave okay i understand that hippa my problem was at the time our counsel eric talb apparently he said on that letter that you all sent for a month okay excuse me and my understanding is we had when we saw the letter

in the lawsuit we had we went and got other counsel to write the retraction letter did you know that mr tab actually represented you all the way up until about maybe two weeks ago for the last four years in this case oh excuse me uh he pulled out in end of november so there is a allegation being made here that their lawyer ignored this uh demand for a retraction yeah for a month and then they got new counsel but he was still the counsel until very recently before this deposition yeah this is troubling yeah if i was kit daniel's lawyer i would have said do not say any of that and it introduces a lot more uh questions excuse me a lawyer sat on this for 30 days may i have more details about that information thank you very much yeah yeah it's

bad but also um even given all that kit's understanding about the rules about retraction oh no are not great and uh mike down for this because this is the clip where you can hear a laugh okay and your it's your contention that he sat on the letter and he's the reason why the retraction wasn't done correctly or into the right time frame it was done under the right time frame what do you mean by that i mean my understanding is we have like 30 days to put the retraction up that's 10 in court and what i saw in the texas state law said 30 and even if it was 30 you got my letter on february 18th you changed it on april second i don't remember if i even saw the letter until the lawsuit to be honest sure but i'm just saying when you said you met the

time frame i don't know how many days you're counting but that's more than 30 but we don't we don't my understanding is we don't uh practice law in texas on the weekends that's not just blatantly not true i practice law all the time well i mean i wake up i practice do you do depositions on saturdays and sundays absolutely really yep oh yeah that uh that uh where the laugh was my understanding is in texas you don't practice law on weekends my understanding to a lawyer my understanding in texas and please stop me if you know any more about this than i do perhaps are you some sort of lawyer that practices in some sort of state anyways my understanding despite you very clearly saying all the words that would suggest what i'm

about to say is not true i don't think you guys work on saturday well what's something that's kind of even remarkable about this is that i know from firsthand experience being at a deposition in texas that happened on the weekend that happened before this deposition yeah people at info wars were deposed on weekends uh-huh kid should know that this is nonsense but i think it is it is a fun little bit of like who told him that who told him that i don't know where did he get that information he read it in one of those like bathroom books right that's that's one of those things where it's like that's the type of shit where it's like i genuinely want to know where it is you got that yeah what's the chain of custody of this totally

totally totally hmm so there's still more problems with this retraction though and this also is another thing where uh kit might get scolded by alex for this i do have a question about exhibit two okay here uh is on this web page on february 14th 2018 we showed a photograph of a young man that we had received that's very puzzling considering you said that you pulled it and that nope you never said anybody sent you that photo yes you're right so whoever wrote that that's that clarification also is inaccurate only those words i did bring up to alex jones that i didn't like we had received what did he say he said just left the lawyers handle it don't say alex's name in the position don't do it oh you're only gonna get alex in trouble

you could have said lawyers you could have said lawyers you didn't need to say alex told me i brought up that exact plate to alex he told me to shut up if i just how is it that he has not been able to remember so much but this one time he's like oh yeah that one i definitely brought that up to alex probably a problem could not have been more certain that he took that exact complaint to alex amazing so kit wrote this article and something happened the next day uh around good for wars that's kind of funny interesting the day after you posted your story paul joseph watson who at the time i believe was what was the role you gave him not chief editor but editor at large or that's how you refer to himself in his biography and he says so the alt

right and the alt left media crafted a fake news narrative that fulfilled both their objectives using made-up 4chan posts less than 24 hours after a bloody massacre that killed 17 people period okay period you realize mr watson's actually making fun of you right now he doesn't realize that you did this but the sandy fine mister responds to him and says that's rich coming from you info wars published false information in the wrong photo in propaganda efforts to link the left and and antifa you're a huge part of the problem period complete hypocrisy period he's not wrong there is he no no sandy guy he does clarify that like he didn't do it maliciously no of course he didn't but uh yeah he doesn't even understand things i i i just find it tough and how do you

how do you continue working there i don't know having this thrown in your face that like your own senior editor or whatever was posting articles mocking the very work that you're getting sued over i legitimately don't know how this dude fucking brushes his teeth every morning i don't know if he speaks to his blender i don't know if he's given things fantastical names like i sleep in the dumper bed like i don't i don't know it's i don't know how this dude functions it's pretty confusing it is bananas to me um so he also wrote some stuff about the los vegas shooting based on uh some notions of antifa literature and what have you um bill wants to establish that that was also clickbait i'm gonna ask you one question okay your your headline says

vegas shooter found with antifa literature right yes point me where you get that from in this article i don't see an embed for it you know why i don't remember because the headline is clickbait that's your opinion not the opinion oh my god what do words mean dan nothing that's what i thought so this article the kit had written about the los vegas shooting right uh is debatably clickbait but but the information that he's running with in this comes from dubious origins it's essentially just from alex right now this we're winding down this deposition here and i think it ends with a scathing revelation about how info wars works okay i wrote the headline in the in the lead sentence on the heads of jones if i remember correctly he showed me the text he got from his

source that you don't know if he's even real could it could have been dr jones with i seriously doubt that you don't know who was but i seriously doubt he would do something like that just for me working for him for so long oh he's got you writing multiple articles telling you to put stuff in and you can't back up right and that he that nobody maybe maybe the embed for you okay i'm sorry that nobody can corroborate he's got you putting your name out there but you would agree with me nothing about this article has anything to do with antifa other than the headline jones forced you to put on the top of this paper well it said antifa literature there's a difference yeah there's nothing in this article besides the you know

the headline that mr jones forced you to put on here that has anything to do with antifa literature well that was what the source told jones then where is it where's the screenshot where's the screenshot i don't know so here's the thing why is that your headline if the article doesn't talk about it at all that's the question for jones okay so and and and just to kind of break it down jones just kind of said you're writing this and kind of forced you to write this this isn't something you wanted to write my understanding is this is something he asked me to write and he gave me the the information off his phone did he ask you in a way where he would have been okay if you said no i don't i doubt it right because when he asked something like this

you do it yeah he's my boss so this may not be as relevant in a legal setting but this clip is super important for my interests oh yeah i have found that the methodology for how infowars works as a broadcast is that alex will use infowars articles specifically their headlines to build his on-air narratives oftentimes these headlines do not accurately reflect the body of the article but are worded specifically in a way so that they can be useful to whatever conspiracy alex is trying to prove or demonstrate on air in some cases these are just fully in-house articles and in other cases they're articles from other outlets where the body of the article is copy pasted onto the infowars site and a wholly new headline is attached to make it more useful for

alex the revelation that alex is directly telling his managing editor what headlines to put on stories is basically the piece that completes the circle of alex just making all this shit up he's on air pretending to cover news stories but in reality it's just him yelling about headlines that he's told his employees to put on stories so he can more easily yell about them this is a completely self-contained information space where everything is just basically alex's whim it was pretty cleared that this was what was going on but it seemed like a much more reasonable assumption to think that like the in-house culture was just that employees knew what alex wanted and then they provided it right maybe some subtle prodding happened like if you didn't take the right angle rob do would

scold you or you wouldn't get as big of a raise that's kind of what i assumed was happening that would make sense and it would be enough to get the message across and ultimately the people who did the right job would stick around and the people who didn't fit that company culture they wouldn't last to me it's an entirely different ballgame for alex to be actively directing the production of the news he's covering and having an active role in the creation of the headlines which are the only parts of the story he ever really covers given this workflow like what story could alex not manufacture all he needs is an info or his article to justify anything he might say on air and he can just tell one of his mopey underlings to create that for him and from kids

telling of it these underlings know better than to not give alex what he wants yep it is that's fucked up it's it's like we reverse engineered this just from watching the show you know and it's like but even then you create a series of plausible sounding steps that would lead you to the result that you have to have somebody not only tell you that those steps were totally right but to also be like and guess what there are fewer steps than you thought it's just alex yeah is fucking insane yeah because like you just have demonstrable observable things like alex only really covers headlines ever exactly the headlines don't match the body of the articles hugely suspicious oftentimes there will be articles that match where they were originally posted with totally new headlines

these are all factual observable things that lead you to the conclusion that this is an intentional strategy right that is ease it creates ease for alex to yell about things on air totally you wouldn't want to jump to the conclusion that alex is telling people what to write because it makes it easier for him to yell about things on air right right right because that would be like that's an unearned leap but and here we are and here we are we have just been given that leap and i would go so far as to say that the one thing you would not want your employee to tell under oath is that very fact yeah yeah so we have one last clip in this deposition and it's actually a demonstration of how this process works with the headline being used to essentially

create uh the the broadcast open that article up go to the last page where the tweet is and read what mr jones tweeted which article is that that one right there okay last page second to last page sorry right uh oh scavenger hunt just right back to laughing again huh mr jones's tweet read it please live isis takes responsibility for vegas shooting as lef celebrates massacre can you tell me why you put that in there i don't know if i did put it in there myself it might have been just we might have had a script at the time do you think do you think anyone on the left was celebrating what happened

in los vegas i don't know personally i don't know okay so in your opinion you have zero evidence that anyone from the left was celebrating that massacre i don't know i mean i didn't write this to be honest with you well you it's in your article correct but it's an in bed for twitter for jones's radio program okay so that's just an advertisement that has happened to be on the same subject matter as your article i mean i i don't know if advertisement is accurate but i guess for lack of a better term if there isn't a better term that maybe that was maybe this was the uh when was this published it just might have been coincidence that they put the he's talking about that on the same day this article okay and it could be coincidence that he had he asked you to

write that article in that way on that day right i don't understand the question true i wouldn't defy were him either i would absolutely not understand that question yes you just have a pretty clear uh linear uh a to b demonstration of alex asks you to write this headline or told you to and you knew you couldn't not do it and uh there is an embedded uh headline of his show from that day that is covering this news story in the way he told you to cover it using your article as the justification for it it's just yeah it's it's a damning indictment of of them as i mean i think this whole deposition is really just a horrific portrait of how they work internally totally um i i that's that's mind boggling to me that is absolutely mind boggling to me

how is it that you have been on these cases for so fucking long as one of info wars' lawyers but at no point in time did you think man we should really explain to kit not to tell the truth or not try to yeah or or not try to give up everything yeah is it that or do they really think that this is an acceptable way to act i don't think so i think that i think that kit didn't know any better than to wreck it he couldn't recognize the roads he was being walked down right and i think that i think that comes back to that naivete and i think that i i think that the dominance and the stupidity that he he manifests yeah comes out in a lot of ways with him not recognizing some of the stuff that he's reporting is completely

bad shit right and nonsense right right and then the naivete comes in with the he doesn't realize like where these questions are are leading him sure and that that combines to be like this sure this is a weird weird conversation they're having it is it does seem like this is very much a dude who is just operated purely on like reward punishment scale his entire life where it's just like if i don't ask these questions i get a reward they give me a bonus i mean he might as well get fifteen thousand dollars a year to not ask questions about this i wouldn't be surprised if that is how it felt but and then he's a but in oh man i i just this is so fucking sad it is so sad it's a bummer all around i think i think it's a bummer because this is obviously far from

the only example of stories that kit has shanked right this terrible totally it's just the one where someone thought to sue them and uh it's and i think there's a there's also a depressing aspect of it that is from the beginning of it where this is the only person we've ever seen who has had any uh discernible sense that they need to do better right in response to this negative feedback totally and it also doesn't matter nope you know it's it's there's a futility to it that comes out yeah and i think one of the one of the weird or not weird i think one of the things that makes it um easier to feel sympathy for kit is just because regardless of of his uh you know whatever relative intelligence or or preparation or anything along those lines he's just not equipped

to handle a conversation like this uh yeah i mean with follow-up questions yeah what do you mean it's just not what he's got in his bag of of abilities and so the problem here is that bill could not be more equipped right so it's it's very much a a fucking knight on a horse with a lance against a dude holding his underwear is over his head you know and it's like that's not fair even if it was hitler holding his underwear over his head you'd be like well this isn't a fair fight i i want hitler to die but i mean this is just kind of excessive right it feels that way yeah and and i think i think that's the other difficult part is the keeping in mind that it's hitler well metaphorically metaphorically yes yeah it's like how much sympathy do you really need to expend for

someone who is in a situation where he's way in over his head totally but also is part of a toxic horrible uh infrastructure at info wars that has led to so many people being hurt and is ultimately ultimately what we're watching is nothing is not a beatdown or anything like that it is a man simply receiving consequences for his actions or who has never had to feed back yes yes so jordan i got to be honest with you i'm gonna call an audible okay i think we should split this into two episodes i think so too i think that we you should join us friday for the oh and shroyer deposition i think that's the plan because quite frankly we're at three and a half hours or so right now and if we add oh and on i don't know what the fuck kind of time we're gonna be at it's gonna be a while and i

appreciate that our listeners do enjoy long episodes oh yeah but we have our limits i think the prospect of a six hour episode is too much for anybody it's a little taxing um so uh sorry as a bait and switch but i assure you friday we will pay off with the oh and the headliner shroyer um so yeah i i think i think we you know it's it's weird i think you say you say just about everything you need to say about this deposition by playing it yeah and then also saying oof yeah i think there's there's a bit of analysis that the you know pointing some some stuff out but i think it really speaks for itself right in a lot of ways of just like this is the level of care that is given when you're reporting something that has the potential to drastically impact people's

lives totally um and they don't care until there's they don't care until there's consequences i mean it is it is just so much of like children they're just children yeah nobody ever explained like that hot hurts well like it's it's when other people touch hot it hurts yeah so don't touch them with don't touch them with hot it's i mean it just makes sense yeah yeah it's crazy so we will be back jordan indeed we will for another little glimpse into the deposition world of alex jones and his cronies uh but until then we have a website we do it's knowledge fight dot com yep we're also on twitter we are on twitter it's at knowledge underscore fight and i go to bed jordan yep we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm dzx clark i'm uh

maco shark rampant sure and now here comes the sex robot andy and chanzas you're on the air thanks for holding so alex i'm a first-name caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you