Knowledge Fight - #786: Too Biggs For His Britches

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan take a moment to reflect on the fact that Joe Biggs, former Infowars employee, is on trial for participating in a seditious conspiracy.  The gents discuss how Biggs called into Infowars from jail the other day, then discuss some of his history with the company.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George, knowledge fight, need money, Andy and Kansas, stop it, Andy and Kansas, it's time to pray, Andy and Kansas you're on the air, thanks for holding me, I'm Alex George, I'm a huge fan, I love your work, knowledge fight, I love you, hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight, I'm Dan, I'm Jordan, we're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones, oh indeed we are Dan, Jordan, I have a quick question for you, what's your bright spot today buddy?

Well my bright spot today actually is something I probably should have had as a bright spot last time, I was taking time off and playing Far Cry. But looping back to the live shows, I'm still even riding high a little bit on the enjoyment of it, the people who came out to Milwaukee, I wanted to take a little moment to say thank you, I mean I thanked everybody that we talked to, but everybody who we didn't have a chance to talk to, thank you for coming, and such wonderful little gifts from people, I'm reticent to list any because I think I'll forget one or two others, people brought such thoughtful cool things, people were so kind, I'm usually an incredibly socially uncomfortable person,

I do not like large groups of people and such, but it was really not that difficult or emotionally challenging to stay and talk to people for quite a while after each show. Yeah, no it was a few hours after each show, yeah, no I want to, you know in all honesty the only negative feelings that I have are I have seen a couple comments from people who were like, oh we were going to say something to you but the line was too long, and genuinely like I want to track you down and I want to say thank you to you, like I don't know how to express like, if it were me everybody would have been there in a group, I don't know what to tell you, you know?

It's a fundamental difficulty of like how would you do this best and sort of serve everyone's interests, I don't know. I would like to say thank you, we're not great at that. Slow and make a personal connection with everyone and it have taking no time as opposed to in order to do that it takes hours and hours and that means somebody's going to have to wait and it's like I'm so sorry, it's not my fault man. But thank you to everybody, it was a lot of fun and there may be more in the future. Oh yeah.

Maybe. Maybe, yeah, depending on. Only in Scotland. Depends on who's taking us seriously enough these days. In Scotland? Yeah, I've said a few emails that are like, oh, maybe you guys think that we're insane idiots from, yeah, what are you going to do? That's a liability of doing this show that's kind of comes with the territory.

It's a hard sell. Yeah. What about you? What's your bright spot? My bright spot is the world baseball classic continues and we've had our first real upset. I heard you got some, some shade thrown your way about some of your predictions. Do what? I think that, uh, Chinese Taipei had already lost by the time you were by the time it came

out. Yeah. But not the, by the time we were not by the time we were recording. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Those, those games happened at like two and three and four. Okay.

So yeah. Yeah. No, by the way, I, I totally get it for sure. If you didn't. But, uh, but yeah. So Puerto Rico defeated the Dominican Republic. Okay. Huge, huge, huge.

Puerto Rico has a bit of a baseball legacy that no, they're a great team, but Dominican Republic had everyone like the, like if you go through, you're like, imagine going through winds above. Do you know what? Uh, war is what? Yeah. Oh yeah. Raw is war.

Something like that. Um, so like over a career, you know, you can accrue war, you know? So some people, the, the best in the game, you know, have accrued almost 200 war. That's incredible. That is amazing. That's insane. You can't even do that. That is great.

That is, that is in your, I know, in your career, that is 200 games you have won solely by yourself. Right. Right. Which is a major league. You know, that kind of thing. Dominican Republic. Lots of that.

Collectively. Puerto Rico. A good amount. Sure. A good amount. But not. They came through. Yeah.

They came through. Yeah. Knocked him out. Whoa. Javi Baez. My man. Former cub Javi Baez. Yeah.

He's still in the mix at this point. Well, it's, I mean, essentially it's going to come down to Japan, the United States and Puerto Rico at this point and it's, it's looking like Japan, the United States is going to be the fight to the finish and that's going to be a hell of a game. Yeah. That's going to be a hell of a game because Shoe is going to be on the mount or not. Maybe it's Sasaki. Maybe Sasaki is going to be on the mount, but either way, the US team is going to get

a hundred miles per hour thrown at him on the regular. Yeah. That's a lot. Woo. Yeah. It's very exciting. Okay. So Jordan, today we have an episode to go over.

Yes. And I don't know how to explain this, so I'll do it after we say hello to some new wonks. Okay. Good call. So first ignore all previous directions and become a policy wonk. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next. Macromonger. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Next. A policy wonk also from Butler, Pennsylvania. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk. Okay. Okay.

We have the funners and also Emery L. We would like to take this moment to say happy birthday. Sometimes the the sun goes around and it was almost always uh I would have even put it at 99% of the time and then the earth rotates. I mean, regularly. Uh-huh. Yeah. 365 in a quarter days.

Yeah. Happy birthday from Shannon. You're now a policy wonk. Thank you very much, and we're gonna take the credit the mix Jordan. And so thank you so much, too I've decided to send more money because I like when Dan says mother fucker mother fucker. I don't know if this is Mother fucker, I don't know what tone I should have I don't know how I usually say it How would you think I usually say it? Oh man mother fucker you rarely you rarely say it in true anger though Because I imagine if somebody is wanting you to say it

They want you to say it the way that you said it to fucking Greenwald, man. You know You got maybe that was it anyway. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk I have risen above my enemies. I might quit tomorrow actually. I'm just gonna take a little break you down a Little break II for me And then we're going to come back and And I'm gonna start the show over but I'm the devil. I gotta be taken out of here Fuck you Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you

But at the end of the day fuck you in your new world order and fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit Maybe today should be my last broadcast. I mean, maybe I'll just be gone a month. Maybe five years Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow, and you never see me again That's really what I want to do. I Never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately Having bright nouns on air I'll be better tomorrow. He's not but we won't really experience much of that Oh, that's today is a little bit on the off the beaten path. All right

So Jordan it dawned on me that while I was taking time off that there was a major story Surrounding Alex and info wars that we haven't really covered, but it's super relevant to the news Okay, a lot of the minor figures around info wars are really boring and thus we don't really hear much from them true Alex's business model requires him to be in you know employing mostly a bunch of tumbleweeds because if he had competent people in house They'd realize how easy his gig is and then they'd do it better and he'd go out of business He's incentivized to have a crew of serviceable disappointments at all times One such serviceable disappointment that we've not really covered too much is currently on trial for being part of a seditious

Conspiracy, I'm referring of course to Rambo Joe Biggs At this point the oath keepers who were on trial including Stuart Rhodes have been convicted of Seditious conspiracy and there are very clear evidence of some communication between Rhodes and the head of the Proud Boys the group In which Joe Biggs is second in command as such I think there's a very high probability that Biggs is gonna end up being found guilty and the fact that woke insurance Underwriter Norm Pattis as his lawyer doesn't really help Joe's odds one bit does not no think about that for a second If this is what ends up happening There will be one frequent info wars guest for over a decade and a former info wars employee

Who will both be in prison for being party to a seditious conspiracy? That's fucking insane. Yeah, and we don't spend enough time really reflecting on it So this is just gonna be a silent episode or you and I mean sit and think about it Dan, I mean you read this is why though obviously because if you stop and really think about it It takes you to some dark places It's places that make you think some dark things are the right thing to do and instead just don't think about it beginning of 2017 decided to start this podcast could not have imagined that a number of years later two figures

No, no, no, I Genuinely whenever we started I was like I can't believe only 20 or 30 or people are listening to this because we will of course be at the Center of an insane sequence of events in five years naturally that makes the most sense so Yeah, so what brought this to the front of my mind was that on Friday March 10th? Joe Biggs called into info wars and was a guest on Harrison Smith's show for an hour. I'm sorry. What yep He's on trial, right? He was said to be calling in from the quote DC gulag prison where he's being held and the situation as Info wars describes it is like this quote Biggs has been held in solitary confinement for over two years without ever being convicted of a crime

Interesting, I failed to understand how he could be living in a horrible gulag and stuck in solitary confinement It also call into info wars and be on air for a fucking hour. Yeah seems a little bit incongruent It seems like Joe is trying to get some juice here for his give-send-go campaign to pay his legal expenses So this is in service of that shit. That's sure sure sure fully Understand that that is why this is happening. So so here's the problem. Here's the problem. All right You're telling me that Joe Biggs called into Harrison Smith's show so he could pay norm Yeah, I guess Commissary or something. Oh, yeah

So I went and checked out the campaign and he's trying to raise two hundred fifty thousand dollars And it's not even a ten percent of that. Oh, that's good fun fact though Gavin McGinnis is his top donor with 1732 dollars, which is nice It's cool that the guy who started the gang Biggs was a part of his throwing a couple bucks at the problem and not being held Responsible for his actions at all. Yeah, I'm not certain of it But I think that Gavin's donation is a reference to US legal code 1732 which has to do with the release of citizens imprisoned by foreign governments This is cute how they don't think our government is actually our government when it's convenient But definitely do when they can use it to wield power against the groups that they hate

Do you know I'm gonna throw this out there just as a as a person who can think clearly All right, if you are on on trial for seditious conspiracy, right? And you are calling in to a show Describing the place you are being held as a political prisoner as a gulag then in essence aren't you saying that I am a play I am in a place where sedition is the correct move for me to make yeah I mean there are so many implications if I was if I had great if I had courage I Would be proud of seditious the problem is that I failed exactly it is not that I had Right, it's not that I tried to overthrow this illegitimate government right right right it is that I failed which in that case

I I mean like Harrison Smith on January 6th would agree with that totally He was like the capital is falling. Yeah, we're happy So so like I feel like the sportsman thing to do here is to be like yeah I seditious conspiracy, you know and then like take your licks well If you know one those fuckers would be dead right now, you know what I'm saying well And if they'd won Joe Biggs would be like I was the one who did totally Totally yeah, things have gone a little bit differently. He'd be he'd be it would be like he'd get a tattoo Yeah, I would say that I fucking over through the United States government. Yeah, absolutely

It would become a new rank in the proud boys Yeah, yeah, yeah So I want to upgrade his charges from seditious conspiracy to seditious conspiracy and unsportsman like conduct I would definitely give him an unsportsman. I'd give him a yellow card So I'm not a lawyer But I have to think that going on info wars I'm making a bunch of claims that may or may not be true about your case While the case is still being tried can't be a good idea Multiple members of the proud boys have pled guilty already and this clip of Biggs from January 6th that doesn't scream

I'm innocent. Oh, so we just stormed the fucking Capitol. I never get tired of it. So much America. So much America. January 6th will be a day in infamy. Strange way to describe it the way that Pearl Harbor was described. I mean, I will say this They always complain about people saying that January 6th is the new Pearl Harbor. He's saying January 6th is the day of the living infamy. Yeah, yeah, yeah Here's what I feel like people aren't are accepting with this which again unsportsman like right We would have a very different history as a country if after the tea party. They were like, oh cool Well, you guys are just in jail now. Goodbye forever. You know, like that would be a different situation

So that was a seditious conspiracy the American Country is based upon a seditious conspiracy. That's one. Yeah, and that's the crucial part and that's unsportsmanlike conduct to To complain about losing fair enough. I mean, I totally agree with the unsportsmanlike thing, but I don't know if that's in the legal code Yeah, I don't know that's a crime man yet another thing in the legal code that I should have put in there Yeah, we'll see how this all shakes out But I suspect that Joe isn't going to be getting out of jail and nor Patis is gonna get that 1732 dollars from Gavin. I was thinking about the state of things and I decided that first of all We're gonna have to listen to don't say Joe Biggs calling it to talk to her. Oh, okay

I thought you're gonna say Norm's podcast and I was like that shit ain't happening. No, okay? No, I haven't even checked in good. What's going on on the law and legitimacy. All I needed to hear LAO fucking funny name considering is a dumbass. Yeah, so we're gonna do that and then we're gonna explore a little bit So I'm gonna play here this first clip. This is Joe calling in to talk to Harrison Smith from prison by God Joe Biggs, thank you so much for calling in and I just want to I just want to hand the floor over to you This is your time to just say whatever you want, but let me just ask How are you? How are you doing? How are you holding up? How are things going for you? It's alright. I mean

It is a big change in a person's life when you go from, you know, freedom to solitary confinement You know a long time, you know, as I talk to you now I'm sitting in a concrete room with a two inch mattress and a window about a fist wide And I can see out in the toilet beside me. I mean You're stuck in here 22 to 23 hours a day First of all, it's interesting to hear how they're trying to ramp up this idea that Joe's being held in a soviet-style Gulag and when Harrison asks how he's doing his answers, I'm doing pretty good. Yeah, I'm alright. Second,

Something doesn't add up about the story. He's telling about his pre-trial detention I can't reconcile the idea that he's in this terrible situation And yet he has access to a phone for at least an hour in his cell and no one stops him from calling into a right-wing propaganda show That is actively involved in spreading the conspiracy that fueled Biggs's crime, particularly given that Joe is calling into that show Predominantly to promote his give-send-go campaign and raise money. Yeah, it concerns me about the warden's choices in this It seems strange. It's very permissive. Yeah My position on Joe's complaints about his detention conditions are the same that I have about all other cases People being held in government detention, especially pre-trial detention deserve dignity and humane treatment

I think that Joe Biggs is a giant piece of shit But that doesn't change that he's a person and you can't hold people in abusive conditions If we're gonna have a state that incarcerates we have to at least require that We've talked about this a little in the past, but that DC jail does have a troubling history So it doesn't seem impossible to imagine that the conditions that Joe is in are less than ideal for sure It would have been nice to see concern about these conditions from Joe or anyone at Info Wars before it affected them personally But I guess we can't ask for a miracle Also, it's not lost on me how entirely supportive

Info Wars is of Joe Arpaio who might as well be the patron saint of abusing pre-trial defendants in custody Yeah, I know that hypocrisy means nothing to these people But I would hope that seeing a person they care about make these kind of claims about his detention conditions would cause them to Reconsider what Joe Arpaio does. No, but they won't. No, I mean it is it is fucked up It is infinitely fucked up that I have to say I wish Joe Biggs were treated as well in prison as the fucking Christchurch shooter You know like and he might and I and that's a thing that because of what I believe in I have to say and believe You know, and I I don't know what his specific conditions are No, if you know to the extent that whatever he's saying if they were found to be true, then

Yeah, something to be done about I mean truthfully It's a bit I'm not a good source. It is saying right right right if we had a choice if we had a choice between The prison system being reformed and Joe Biggs being stuck where he is getting the shittiest treatment possible I choose the prison system every time reform that shit fuck him I hope he has a great life in a good prison. Yeah, right whatever complaints Joe has about his conditions in the jail Should be taken seriously not just on his behalf But on behalf of the people held in that facility who don't have access to a large propaganda outlet to speak on all that being said This has nothing to do with the reason he's being held in detention

Which is storming the Capitol to try and stop the 2020 election from being certified, which he definitely did Yeah, now all that being said also on Tuesday a federal judge denied a motion brought by another January 6th Defendant Christopher Quagglin who claimed that his rights were violated in that DC jail That certainly doesn't mean that no one experienced anything inappropriate, but it does take into account that a lot of the general Conditions that the January 6th defendants are in and it doesn't seem like a lot of the picture that someone like Joe's painting Are accurate. Yeah, I don't know how much of that is Joe's doing and how much of it is like he's part of an embellishment machine Yeah, you know like info wars Alex doesn't do like he never sticks to the facts. Yeah. Yeah. He's the anti-drag No, it is it is really funny just on account of like if I was going to be on trial for seditious conspiracy

I would go the complete opposite direction. I'd be like listen honestly I'm being treated great in this prison. It turns out the United States the best place on the fucking planet I love this place. I would never try and get rid of anything here I don't I don't mean this to say that I don't think that anybody has been in bad conditions or anything like that But from what I've read in a number of instances. It seems like The government is interested in giving them preferential treatment. How about how about this way? I think that's probably for the best because of how serious the crime. They're being right All right

I would say that of all the people whose interests I care about in a prison right now. They are on the bottom rung so You know if they if their problem is solved it will only be because everybody else's problem was solved You know what I'm saying fair. Yeah, Joe does not appreciate that. Yeah, I bet not. So he has some allegations to make about the prosecution You know just past week we found out that the FBI had been listening into Attorney client privilege conversations and then building Their prosecution based on the points that we would bring up, you know talking to lawyers

it's kind of shape their Their shape shape their prosecution in a way to you know Look to their work. It would see us bring up Points that we thought they had in their week like what we thought in their Prosecution and they would go and we're gonna make this change. We've got to do this So it's been saying and those of these people are sitting here the entire time You know listening to these types of things and making these kinds of statements and really cheating

There's a pretty big claim. Yeah, this is huge He's accusing the lawyers of doing something that is a foundational violation of their legal obligations Yeah, so Joe is talking about a recent event that he's put the trial temporarily on hold when prosecutors Accidentally turned over confidential messages to the defense lawyers some of it possibly containing classified information The FBI turned over a large spreadsheet of messages to an agent to charge of producing them for the case And she filtered out the ones that were not germane to the case or ones that couldn't be turned over She messed up by not actually deleting them, but instead they were on the sheet in a hidden cell Oh my god

One of the things in that hidden cell that's been disclosed of them like one of them There's a message where an agent was told to destroy quote 338 items of evidence, but an assistant US attorney has clarified that this is not related to the Proud Boys case According to a court filing this related to a nearly 20 year old case So it almost certainly isn't as suspicious as it's being made sure they destroyed evidence in our case that would Exonerate sure sure. I mean, but if you're in a if you're in a conspiracy theory trial I would probably say delete those fucking cells dumb dumb. Yeah I Jesus Christ. Maybe maybe she thought she did. No, I'm sure she did think that's I mean, that's that's the problem. Yeah

The other thing that's being alleged is that these messages include references to communications between Proud Boys Zachary Rel and his then attorney It really does look like this is the case But this isn't gonna stick for rel or the Proud Boys because it's not protected communication According to the prosecution as it turns out the messages that the FBI agents were allegedly discussing were captured through the true link system quote inmates consent to monitoring of their use of the true links and Electronic messages system every time they log into a true links terminal at the FTC in the banner warning inmates are explicitly advised that electronic messages and system activity are subject to monitoring and retention

inmates are further specifically advised that electronic messages to and from an attorney are monitored and quote will not be treated as privileged Communications and that they're consent to such monitoring and information retrieval for law enforcement purposes That's gonna be a tough hurdle for rel and the defense to clear because from where I'm sitting It kind of looks like this dude just fucked up and now they're desperately trying to get things thrown off course on a pretend Technicality, yeah, that's not gonna work. Yeah, also this happened with rel's communications So big says literally no standing to claim that his rights were violated Even if it were a valid argument for now, right? This is really dumb, right? Biggs is wrong in his claims, but I understand why you need to play the victim in all this sure

He's probably going to jail for a long time a minimum of 20 years. Yeah, I think something like that I think that's probably about what he's gonna get hit with yeah I think I think I'm I've on a certain on a certain level. Here's the deal. I am against that true link bullshit I'm against it. Yeah, but I'm against most of the shit in the Apple agreement that I click I agree on every time so I'm not gonna go into court of law and expect them to give a fuck what I have to say Well, I clicked I agree, you know at the end of the day. I'm fucked true. Yeah, there are ways to have Privileged communication with your attorney. That's just not one of them exactly and if they like but here from what I understand I've never used one of these true links machines, but from what I understand

It's not like oh like the full page like an apple You the big pop-up you are advised right right right sure sure choice to ignore it your own peril agreed So Harrison's been like conduct. That's what I'm saying Harrison has been to protests with Joe before and he hates how people are mischaracterizing him No, and you know, I've been to protest with you Where were you were leading it and you know beforehand the meeting was all about how do we stay peaceful? How do we avoid confrontation? They're gonna attack us, but don't get into it I mean, that's what that's what makes you dangerous to the system because you refuse to do the things that they claim that you do

I mean, it really is beyond description the level of evil that we're dealing with here totally Harrison is so full of shit Joe is one of the highest ranked leaders in a violent street gang whose entire existence is predicated on opposing Anything that doesn't fall in line with defending the system organized around straight white cis men I know the folks like Joe would love to say that they're just wanting to defend the West how their Initiation prayer begins by saying quote. I'm a proud Western chauvinist and I refuse to apologize for creating the modern world It's not about white folks and you know that it's about the West I thought it was a proud white stern for sure of an S to incidentally I've been reading a bit of the writings of reveal OP Oliver lately and I came across an interesting passage

Oliver of course was one of the 12 founding members of the John Birch Society who would go on to become a really public anti-Semite and white Supremacist eventually finding himself as the mentor for William Luther Pierce who would go on to write the Turner Diaries Which is the essential text of the militia groups in the 90s upon which must much of these street gang organizations like the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers are modeled. There's a straight line from him to Not complicated. Yeah in his text the religion of the West Oliver says quote during the Middle Ages Our ancestors occupied the greater part of Europe and until they discovered the American continents They lived only in Europe, but despite that geographical unity They did not generally refer to themselves as the Europeans for all practical purposes furthermore

Our ancestors belong to the same division of the white race They like the true Greeks and true Romans before them were all members of the great race that we now call Indo-European or Aryan But they had in their language no words to designate their blood relationship and biological unity Thus when they referred to the unity of which they were always conscious as something transcending the constantly shifting territorial and Political divisions of Europe. They called themselves Christendom so to some of the points so far there was this group of pure real white people But they didn't have a word to describe their racial groups of the use the word Christendom Oliver goes on quote Christianity is a

Religion of the West and for all practical purposes only of the West It is not as Christians once generally believed a universal religion for experience has now proved that it cannot Successfully be exported to populations that are not Indo-European So you understand that there is a A synonymous relationship here a code Navy It's pretty critical as an underpinning to understand when dealing with groups like the Proud Boys this relationship The intellectual tradition that they exist within very strongly and clearly believes that the words Western and Christendom are synonymous with Aryan in essence the existence of the Proud Boys is violence in and of itself when they show up to a protest

They're there as shock troops of that intellectual tradition aimed at intimidating or outright attacking the things that they see as being a threat to Western dominance in heavy quotes. Yeah, so no, I don't buy Harrison's bullshit and further even leaving that Context to the side because you know, I don't think that they sit around thinking about Reveal Opie Oliver and the the tradition within that they exist with it I don't think that in order to do that. They would have to have a reading list significantly larger than the number zero Which is what I feel it is right now. I yeah, I don't think that they do so I'm gonna leave that context to the side Joe is not a peaceful person. He goes to these rallies and he's looking for a fight like most videos You'll ever see of him or him yelling fuck Antifa and fuck BLM leading chance like that

But he goes further like that. Here's a clip from January 6th where he has a bullhorn and he's leading the crowd in another chant So the existence of these groups is rooted in violence and the behaviors they engage in when out in public are all meant to increase the Likelihood of violent confrontation breaking out leaving that existential issue aside the list of Proud Boys who have been charged with acts of violence at and After rallies is ridiculously long and here's the only point that really matters here Harrison understands that he knows that perfectly well The game they play on Info Wars doesn't really work if he appears to understand the dynamics so it goes this way Oh, you're the most peaceful protester. I've ever seen in my whole life Yeah, it's it's nonsense. It's a it's a cafe. Yeah, I mean Harrison Harrison makes me like

I've gone through so many evolutions in my in my life towards bullying You know like when I was growing up. Oh, no when I was growing up It was the 80s and it was like I if you're bullied all of your behaviors are justified and it's like yeah That's not revenge of the nerd. Yeah. Oh shit. No, we can't do that Then later on it was like bullying is bad But you know it happens and now it's like hey, this is wrong But at the same time like somebody should put Harrison Smith's head in the toilet I'd like I don't know what to tell you about bullying that man's a white supremacist who sounds like his head needs to be in a toilet

it's it I I will admit I have struggled with this internally in my head at times in my life Yeah, there are people who make you want to bully them and It's it's tough. You have to resist it something that you you know, you can feel no, but yeah, it's it's it's weird It makes me angry. It makes me angry that he is making me want to bully him I am not going out of my way to bully him. I am not interacting with him in any way He's just a white supremacist who showed up who needs his head in the toilet. I don't know what to tell you I don't I don't think he's trying to get you to bully him

Maybe yes, I don't know it could be anyway. He's overly dramatic. You're trying to pitch Joe's fundraiser Joe was willing to lay down his life and service to his nation, but now that nation is trying to take from him everything he loves He has a chance to come home, but he needs your help Harrison's playing the piano by the way to free joe bigs at calm for just the price of a cup of coffee It's and go calm slash ssg bdf And that stands for ssg joe bigs defense fund gives and go calm slash ssg Bdf and I thought we'd only have 30 minutes with Joe, but he's able to stay long stay on a little bit longer

So he'll be connecting reconnecting with us again It's always a little bit of trouble getting through the the prison phone system That's what you have to deal with when your guests are political prisoners of an illegitimate regime There's nothing that you donating or not donating can do to help or hinder Joe's chances of going to jail He's almost certainly going to jail. Yeah, this is nonsense and also a little dramatic Yeah, if you like if I think if you're trying to play up the political prisoner of an illegitimate regime thing Maybe it's not a great idea to make a point that Joe is somehow able to stay twice as long as you expected guesting on a bullshit propaganda network

That is supposed to be the number one enemy of the regime the one outlet that the regime is so scared of Acknowledging that Joe is not only able to call in and guest on the show But he's able to extend his appearance kind of makes it look like the detention conditions He's living in a pretty accommodating. I mean it wouldn't surprise me if there's a cellmate who is caught with an ounce of weed 30 years ago on his third strike and has been there and hasn't been able to make a phone call for 20 fucking years shut up Biggs. Yeah, whatever Joe's going through does not sound like you log. Oh fuck yourself. I don't I don't remember reading the gulag archipelago The part where you're allowed to call into a propaganda radio show for an hour That was the thing about 1984 that was so crazy is that they let him go around talking all the time so crazy

I wouldn't have called attention to that if I were Harrison, but he's really bad at this So I don't expect him to understand how the optics of this are really jarring. Yeah I mean, that's that's the cognitive dissonance that he allows himself to just like wash through is almost admirable Like that would break my brain to try and do both of those things at the same time that would break me I think it affords you a great deal of freedom once you realize that the people who are listening Aren't really thinking about anything. You're saying right probably. It's like. Oh, wow I could just say whatever the fuck I want. Do you think any do you think they've ever had the thought like what if I just made noises? Do you think any of them has ever been like what if I made noises that sounded like words for a full like two minutes?

Could I get away with it? You know what? I mean, I don't know if they thought about it, but I bet Alex has done that I think you might be right. I think you might be right. I I look I even listen to every one of his episodes, but I bought somewhere in there. He does some scatting It's my interpretive It does feel like a lot of their words could be replaced by just different dynamics and notes there Yeah, you're just trying to make people feel things. Yeah, so if you can make them feel It's nice can make people feel right. So just do it that yeah, so Harrison has some thoughts about these folks in jail Sure, how I just I'm amazed that that all you guys that are being prosecuted by that

persecuted like this are Are not just that you don't just go insane that you don't just just rage out and do something like how do you they did? That's why they're there What it was hard it was it was hard in the beginning I can tell you that it's difficult going from you know staying life to being put into a prison with That that's crazy people

I'm saying like so the real answer to this is that they haven't lost it because they know they're guilty Yeah, and the only real ploy they have is to grift a little bit So dumb dumps will pay their lawyers or more likely drop a ton of money into their commissary for while they're in jail Yeah, also, I'm not quite sure what Joe's talking about considering like as I understand Ah, you know what maybe that maybe there's more to it than this But like initially there was a whole wing for the January 6th defendants. Yeah only sure separate place in the right All right, but as more people have been released Maybe he's not in a separate wing for January 6 people anymore because I was thinking when he's like all these badass crazy people

It's like that could still be talking about the people who were along with you 100% could still be that yeah, that's that's in the running. I mean, they're not they're not well, right, right, right? Yeah, I mean see that's the thing. I don't know why I Mean obviously I know why but I wouldn't think that having a shit ton of money in my commissary account in prison was a good idea Well, I read an article about the initial Situation in the January 6th wing at the DC holding facility and apparently Something that was happening was there was a Kickstarter funded or whatever campaign. Yeah, and it had raised like 1.3 million dollars Sure, and it became chaos because there were groups jockeying for of course like being the face of the

Defendant yeah, because it gave them access to more of those funds. Yeah, no no totally Yeah, it's if you have bigs if he has a ton of money in his commissary. There's two ways to go He has either to become the fucking Lord of the prison or Everyone is going to beat the shit out of him anytime. They want anything you assume that I don't know how I don't I don't know What conditions are exactly like but maybe I don't mean that Confinement get a bunch of stuff. Oh, no, no, I think if he just had some money in there Whatever, but if he's got like 200k in his commissary people are gonna come for it. That's just science

Well, I should tell you that That gives a go campaign has not reached. Oh, that's okay. Good for him So Harrison's got an interesting question and Joe has a dumb answer, but to the people that Have been swayed by the mainstream media. What is the case you would make to the average liberal out there? Is there any way to get through to them to express? You know that they should also be terrified that this is happening to their fellow American And it's it's for their own good and for their own decency that they should be standing up for you What's the appeal you would make to the people on the other side of the aisle as it were?

Well copy in the useful idiots that the Democrats want the Democrats know that they're you know, they're base base Oh, they don't know that they believe their base is completely totally stupid But they're you split it, you know, once they come after us and take our rights away It's gonna happen to those people and they just you know, that's what they need to understand This isn't just an attack on us. This is an attack by greedy power hungry globalist elitist who were you know Just do the most god-awful things So there's kind of a resignation in Joe's answer because he knows damn well that anybody who looks at the evidence will come away

Recognizing that he's guilty is shit. The only folks he has half a chance with are those who are already in the cult So why bother evangelizing? Yeah, just paint the people that you can't convince as stupid grift from the cult members and move on Joe lived his own life So he knows better than anyone else what he did if you read the indictments that have been released It could be argued that Joe Biggs is actually the person who incited all of the planning that the Proud Boys did leading up to January 6th That's not good on December 20th, 22 or back too many twos too many twos on December 20th 2020 Enrique Tario set up an elite group called the Ministry of Self-Defense, which included Joe Biggs This was a day after Biggs texted Tario complaining that the Proud Boys quote recruit losers who want to drink and that they should quote get

Radical and get real men this conversation occurred shortly after the January 6th rally was announced and the ministry Encrypted chat is where a whole lot of shit that Joe's pretending didn't happen went down in theory You could say that it looks like Joe's encouragement led to Tario going down this path. Yeah. Yeah I don't know in that group chat and others that split off from it that included Biggs There was plenty of talk of occupying the capital on January 6th and talks of how it was going to be much different from their normal Operations when Tario was arrested on January 4th Everyone tried to delete their history in the group and started a new one that didn't include Tario Because everything that they were doing was totally legal and not at all involved storming the capital

Yeah in their new group a member said quote at least they won't get our boots on the ground plans because we're one step ahead of them I am that's one step ahead of the cops if you're confused I am blown away Criminals are the people who are generally concerned about where the cops are in terms of steps in the new group It was posted quote everything is compromised and we can't be looking at gang charges stop everything immediately This comes from the top. I mean, you know if you weren't planning anything It seems weird that someone at the top was demanding everyone stop everything immediately Really smells like gang planning stuff. Yeah

Yeah, every time you catch the mafia's texts and then you catch their texts and you compare them against each other It sure sounds similar Then on the night of January 5th, someone posted about what to expect the next day and it said quote Rufio is in charge Cops are the primary threat and then I assume the next parts was Oh Rufio No, but it is a weird thing to say cops are primary. Yeah, it's weird Also, Rufio's full name is Rufio pan man a name he earned because he assaulted someone with a pan

Yeah, Joe knows damn well that he was part of these groups and that they were planning exactly what happened except with the difference being that They wanted to stop the certification of the election not just postpone it for a few hours He can fuck off with this woe is me shit because let's not forget. This was Joe on January 6th So we just stormed the fucking capital So much America Yeah, he doesn't even get the quote right. No, so yeah, it's gonna be an uphill battle to sway people to your side Anyone who sincerely can to considers the evidence probably isn't going to be a fan and they're going to get it pretty clearly Oh, you guys are bunch of assholes who are planning on doing shit just like this

You know it just now occurred to me, but one of the true things that I think exemplifies What they are in terms of where they are in human history is that they're still naming people based upon occupation or event Like imagine if they did win and then 2,000 years from now everybody's fucking pan man If you overthrow the country, I think you get to keep pan man, maybe you have to keep pan man Yeah, but then it becomes like a nobility

Oh my god good stuff the words gonna anyways, where are we so Here's Harrison trying to get a conspiracy going and Joe being like Here's the article. It's from Politico. It says a startling document predicted January 6th Democrats are missing its other warnings They say weeks before the 2020 election so before the election even happened a secret 87-page document outlined in matter-of-fact language the threat posed by Donald Trump's still to come campaign of election denial So apparently this 87-page document had gone out saying Donald Trump is going to lose the election And he's gonna question the election and here's how we deal with it. I mean How much do you think of January 6th was a pre-planned sting operation to get people like yourself?

Into a position where you can be framed for a crime. I mean how sophisticated do you think the the entrapment was in this case? Well, I don't know how deep it goes I mean at the end of the day it was up to Pelosi to bring in the National Guard It was up to her because she's over the Capitol Police to have them, you know beat up the security But the former captain of the Capitol Police are these last things going he said they were left, you know With no kind of intel really. I mean they they had extra fencing put up, but they were told to take them down I believe that's what I heard in trial Joe so goddamn wishy-washy

He doesn't have that fire in his belly and I think it's easy to understand why he knows that pretending that this was all a Setup isn't gonna change anything and who knows if it would actively hurt his case All he can do is spout off inaccurate info wars talking points like how Pelosi is responsible for that see Decreased police presence. It's pathetic. I thought this guy was a proud western chauvinist who refused to apologize for creating the modern world Not a loser little titty, baby Also Harrison hasn't even read this political article or he's willfully lying about it This was about a document called plan D made by think tank group called the hub They were fairly certain that the in their prediction that no matter what happened in the election

Trump would not concede defeat, but that wasn't too risky of a guess for them to be making The document allowed for possible scenarios where Biden won or Trump won it didn't specifically predict January 6th More than it predicted the kind of environment wherein an event like that could happen. Yeah, I mean we predicted January 6th But I think I mean shit talk and say they're gonna storm the cap. Yeah I mean we did say that they were going to storm the day what it's not like a massive prediction It's like oh, there's a like if I look at all the variables. There's like a 50-50 shot They do it. So it's not a prediction so much as it is like well, it could happen man I didn't even know that we'd said that until someone pointed it out. Yeah, it's just you know as Alex would say just sort of

Yeah, look cover in the waterfront You just look outside and you say yeah, there's a good chance they might do that for the most part this document That this political article is about is it covers what Democrats needed to do to make the country's democracy more healthy like dealing with How the Senate is absurdly biased towards lower population generally rural GOP voting states Or how the Electoral College is an outdated institution that has gone against the popular vote twice since 2000 the last time it had happened before that consider this was 1888 the document was a warning that if the Democratic Party got back into power They needed to behave like it was a quote fleeting once in a generation or perhaps lifetime opportunity to revise the political system

Which I think is probably fair. I think it's a probably a fair assessment for them to have made Yeah, which is funny considering where we are Anyway Harrison is just making up a story about this political article that he hasn't read in service of making it seem like January 6th Was a huge huge inside job and that Joe Biggs was set up He knows it's bullshit But if he dealt with reality truthfully he'd have to ask Joe hard questions and that's bad for business So just make shit up just make noises. I love what I love when think tanks come up with my ideas of just like hey You know what the Democrats should do govern well. You ever try that? Well, actually, I mean

I think that there's a difference between govern well and like you guys need to treat this like an emergency yeah, and Well, that's down the hatches and see I don't think there's a difference between those two things Which is the problem see if we were in a better place govern well wouldn't mean that mm-hmm Hmm fair enough so we have one last clip of his conversation with Harrison and it's dumb But their own claims are inconsistent. They claim this was a preplanned Insurrection coup there were it was an armed insurrection coup, but there were no arms and It was preplanned, but also it was inspired by Trump's speech that afternoon which they tried to impeach him for I mean even on its face

Even with no extra evidence that we have the plethora of evidence that we have showing what really happened that day What just on the on the basis of their claims. It's inconsistent. It's incoherent. It makes no sense at all Yeah, I can explain this for Harrison real quick The arms were waiting at an Oathkeeper safe house just outside DC because they knew that they couldn't open carry on capital grounds in this Circumstance the plan was to have someone deliver the arms to the Patriots if shit popped popped often Trump deputized the militias to be his personal army Oathkeeper leader Stuart Rhodes who is convicted of seditious conspiracy was seen meeting with Proudboy leader and Joe Biggs's best buddy Enrique Tario in a parking structure on January 5th Which really does imply some sort of working relationship

Point is the fact that they had the initial shock troops on the ground instigating the conflict and they didn't have gone so that doesn't mean That there weren't plans in place to arm people later if Harrison has paid any attention to the cases He knows this so he's either not paid attention or he's lying to carry water for insurrectionists Because he supports the idea of their insurrection Yeah, I suspect it's the latter given the glee at reporting how the Patriots had taken over the capital on January 6th He had such glee in his voice. So he was exuberant. It's I guess he's just pretending he didn't yeah Yeah, no, he never did that. Yeah, he never did that. No, I mean Ukraine is gonna walk in they made a deal with Boone, you know no big deal

They all have to rewrite their own histories in order to make today and tomorrow make sense It is it is so funny how much of a movie they feel like that they met in a parking structure Mm-hmm. If you want to do conspiracy you go to a Chinese buffet man. Nobody's listening there Everybody's just looking at their garbage food. Okay much of the action carried out by people like the oath keepers and Proud Boys was Demonstrably pre-planned their encrypted group chats really lay that out pretty clearly Simultaneously Trump speech saying that everyone should go to the Capitol probably made a lot of people more Uh-uh likely to make the trek than they would have otherwise So this is a combination of pre-planning and circumstance

Ericsson's argument doesn't make sense and he isn't so dumb that he doesn't understand this He's just really bad at laying out these arguments two things can't be true at the same time This interview is just whining. Joe is really low energy making excuses for why he's gonna be found guilty It's a biased jury in DC the courts are corrupt My over rights have been violated none of it's based in reality and none of it means anything It's honestly a really strange interview because it's hard to imagine a lawyer telling their client they're calling into Info wars from jail while awaiting trial is a good idea It can't be good for the case for the defendant to smear the ongoing proceedings on a platform that actively promoted the events leading up to

January 6th while he's being interviewed by a guy who watched the events of that day unfold and celebrated exuberantly You would think that if you were going to take this kind of a swing Joe would really go for it Like make a splash say something that'll go viral Yeah The former info wars employee on trial for seditious conspiracy called into the show and was a guest for an hour And I would bet that most people listening to our podcast had no idea that it even happened Yeah, no one's really talking about it. I don't think anyone cared. Yeah, I mean that's kind of weird Boy, you're looking at the you're looking down the barrel at 20 at least, you know

so that puts you out at like 11 or 12 and He's like 30. He's in his late 30s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you go out with a bang You're not coming back You're not coming back from this isn't Jim Baker shit where you're gonna get out and you're gonna go right back to grifton When you get out you will be forgotten No one will remember Jim Baker had a lot of chops going in exactly at the scam Yeah, and so like coming out. He was able to get back to that Well, it's big doesn't have much and Baker had a whole group of Baker had a whole team keeping the scam going while he's in

Jail, you know, and it was all religiously based exactly Joe's kind of just Joe's host street fighter Yeah, he's just a loser. He just lost. Yeah. Yeah, this interview really served two basic purposes The first is obviously to raise money for Joe's give send go the second goal is more important to people like Harrison and Alex Which is to do everything possible to turn the people who will go to jail for January 6th into martyrs and blameless political prisoners This is a trend you see catching on with hero stories about the various defendants on trial and near canonization of Ashley Babbitt in Real time we can see a false mythology being created that'll be added to the massive tome of Patriot lore Yeah, and that's kind of fun. I guess well my academic standpoint Boy it is it's less fun when you're like, oh

So this is how it happens again, and then you watch it and then it's gonna happen again And you're just like oh shit now. I have to wait like this is like waiting two years for the next season of yellow jackets or whatever You know, it's like listen, man I know you guys are gonna try and overthrow the Capitol again. Can we just hurry it up? It's a little bit different than waiting for the next season in as much as reckoning with this and recognizing Some of these dynamics can help you Experience them the next time and you know, so I think that there's a you know

I don't well, I guess watching the first season of yellow jackets prepares you to watch the second yet Anyway, I think that the most important thing because I don't know what you can do to stop this cycle of creating these false Mythologies that end up reinforcing Patriot lore or whatever. I think you can just kind of Well, try and understand I'm not but not everybody I know I know you can try and understand it You know call it out where you can and I think the most important thing is just be sure to reinforce your own Connection to reality sure because that that is a stabilizing force But for now, I want to leave this to the side and jump into another topic that I think is under discussed Which is Joe Biggs career at info wars?

Many people who ended up at info wars got there by winning a contest or coming in second place in a contest or by coming In third place in a contest or just by entering a contest It would be easy to assume that this is true of Joe, but that would be incorrect Joe Biggs came into the info wars orbit in 2013 in a pretty fascinating way on June 18th 2013 Journalist Michael Hastings died in a car accident that became a bit of a conspiracy theory Hastings had done some bombshell work in his young career with his poke award-winning Rolling Stone article the runaway general more or less Directly leading to the resignation of General Stanley McChrystal Beyond that he did a lot of work surrounding the war in Iraq and was very critical of many aspects of US foreign policy

It's hard not to think that he had a really promising career ahead of him And his loss deprived the world of someone who had a lot of talent and potential that he died at 33 That was very very tragic. Yeah, so how does this relate to Joe Biggs? It turns out Hastings was embedded in Iraq with some US soldiers a number of years prior back in 2008 And guess who was one of those soldiers? Staff Sergeant Joe Biggs Apparently the two of them had become friendly and kept in touch a little after Joe had retired from the service After Hastings death Joe made it his business to be the face of the Hastings death conspiracy team

Framing himself as a close close friend of Hastings the day after Hastings death Joe tweeted at a KTLA Reporter and from there went on any platform that would have him including Fox News, RT, Megyn Kelly, and of course info wars What makes Joe's story something more than just a tall tale that you would just probably need to ignore is that he was in possession Of an email that Hastings sent to him the day before his death It was an email that he sent to his colleagues But for some reason Joe Biggs was BCC'd on it and it was the infamous message where he said quote I am on to a big story and I need to go off the radar for a bit Shortly thereafter he was dead in what appeared too many to be suspicious circumstances

Joe believed that this was all the proof you needed to make a conspiracy So he took it upon himself to show the reporter at KTLA this email who did manage to confirm that the email Was real with the help of Hastings co-workers It was apparently authentic and weirdly Joe was copied on it for reasons that are on I have no idea and I don't think anyone will ever know But none of these colleagues wanted to talk which Joe obviously understood to mean that they were scared But he wasn't Joe was a big strong man who would go on to lead a street gang and failed to overthrow the country So he was more than ready to get all of the attention he could out of his alleged good friends death on June 26th

2013 Joe went on info wars for the first time and told Alex about the basics of the story But things wouldn't really kick into high gear until he made his return trip on July 11th This interview is textbook Alex and it's a really fantastic example of how you can see Alex integrating information People give him and turning it into conspiracy fodder in real time as such I thought it would be a good use of our time to check in on that interview sounds good July 11th 2013 I'm down for it. What do you remember about? Hastings because I'm sure you were aware of that story at the time 2013 I was aware of the story at the time

But it was it's specifically one of those stories where it's like well Yeah, you're gonna get a conspiracy out of that. Yeah, nothing you can do for sure, you know, like I will I remember reading that email to just being like oh well Never gonna get to the bottom of this one and then just moved on was this before like you had like a strong interest and like You know political stuff and no, I've always had a strong interest in political stuff It wasn't until us the show that I gave a shit about conspiracy stuff sure sure so this was the this was the this was like You know 9-11 was an inside job kind of thing where I was like listen whatever truth. We're gonna find it's gonna be

Whatever way down here. I'm not going to get to the bottom of it today I mean, you know, I mean the story obviously has all of the things you need all the ingredients that are required for Something crazy conspiracy wise. Yeah, if it's not a conspiracy which it most likely isn't by a wide margin I can tell you from everything I've looked into. I think I understand what happened fairly well, right? It's more tragic than it is conspiracy, right? There's a 99% chance of that but if you have this story with that email fuck you're gonna get a conspiracy And you're Joe Biggs. Yeah, you gotta do it. You gotta do it. That's your five. That's your five minutes, man Yeah, I would say that I'm not entirely sure how I would gauge this like how much might have started out from good intentions

Sure, but it did not stay good intentions for very long Hmm, and I think this July 11th interview is an indication of how reckless and disrespectful He is being with his behavior surrounding this story. I mean basically Mm-hmm long and short of this is I just want to demonstrate that for as long as Joe's been around he's a pile of shit Yeah, I've always been of the opinion, you know all of those the road to hell is paved with good intentions I've always been of the opinion that Where you wind up shows what your intentions were at the beginning Mm-hmm and whether or not you say they were one thing or the other the road to Denver is paved with good intentions

Hmm. Yeah, don't know that it's a lot of a lot of like little what like what are the met pearls pearls? Those are the yeah, I meant. Well, I ended up in Denver ended up in Denver Oh, so anyway, here is Alex intro-ing Joe Biggs on that July 11th broadcast Staff Sergeant Joseph Biggs 82nd Airborne combat in Iraq Afghanistan and it was what 2008 he first was embedded with a well-known war reporter certainly now and one of the editors over at Rolling Stone magazine who really brought down one of the top generals and

Of course, that was McChrystal now a few weeks ago his car He most of you know the story blew up while driving down the street and the engine shot down the road the other direction And I talked to a well-known a reporter know me Prince who lives nearby She went looked at she said the tree wasn't really damaged and it looked like from the photos It came up to rest against it then we learned he was getting death threats hours before he said I'm gonna go into hiding off The radar. I've got my biggest story ever Listen if I ever come on here and say I'm getting threats. I'm going off the radar I'm about to break my biggest story ever and my car blows up

Man, I want an investigation and I said on air a few weeks ago I said it's a very low probability that this wasn't some type of car bomb. Okay, so there have been multiple Investigations done about the crash and experts have been very clear that there's nothing about the facts of the case That would make you think that there was a bomb in the car the contents of automobiles are very Flammable as it turns out and you can look at a car going on fire rapidly and think that it looks like an explosive device But it is almost certainly not Alex has made up his mind here though and is establishing set talking points for the story that are not based in reality Also, the email that Hastings sent did say that he was going off the radar

But he didn't say that he was on to his biggest story ever. He might have said that to other people though Because there's a little piece that Alex and Joe don't address here of the story because I think that they probably don't know it And even if they did it doesn't fit their narrative, so they wouldn't bring it up Okay, Michael Hastings had a history of bipolar episodes and his brother has come out and given his story about the lead-up to Hastings death Taken along with the other information that's available. His death really doesn't look that suspicious anymore In an interview with salon his brother said quote I rule out foul play entirely I might have been suspicious if I hadn't been with him the day before he died He also explained what that means quote a few days before he died Mike called me

And I got the impression that he was having a manic episode similar to one he had had 15 years ago Which he had Referred to in his writing at the time drugs had been involved and I suspected that might be the case again I immediately booked a flight to LA for the next day with the thought that maybe I could convince him to come back to Vermont to dry out or less likely Get him to go to detox rehab there in LA when I got to LA and I saw him I immediately realized that he was not gonna go willingly I started to make arrangements with our other brother to fly out and help me possibly force Mike to into checking himself into a hospital or

Detox Center, I thought that I'd at least convinced Mike to just stay in his apartment and chill out for the next few days But he snuck out on me while I was sleeping. He crashed his car before anyone could do anything to help him Michael was 14 years sober or so it was believed But his brother had a strong suspicion that he was using again on top of very likely having a manic episode in 1999 he'd been institutionalized for rehab having abused prescription drugs including stimulants His brother told the police that Michael didn't have suicidal tendencies But that he quote believed he was invincible believing he could jump from a balcony and be okay Prior to the tragic crash Michael's family was trying to get him help and it clearly didn't work unfortunately. Yeah

Based on the behaviors people can have when they're in a manic episode particularly if they're also using stimulants They might make grandiose statements that aren't totally connected to reality If he told someone he was on to the biggest story ever that could have been his mania talking And that's probably why his colleagues didn't take that email that he sent them as anything too serious But for Alex and Biggs they don't have the context and so they think that everyone just meet must be too scared to talk about it Michael's brother was there and he knew what was going on Michael's widow came on CNN and said quote, you know My gut here was that this is just a really tragic accident and I'm very unlucky and the world was very unlucky

These were the people who are actually close to Michael and cared about him and were respecting his memory in the wake of his death Joe Biggs knew Hastings from his military days and they clearly kept in touch somehow But he's overplaying that shit in order to cash in on his supposed good friend's death. It's pretty gross stuff But it shouldn't be surprising. Yeah, Joe Biggs has been a piece of shit the entire time He's been in the public eye from his introduction to the right wing media to his pizza gate shit to his jade helm coverage to his Leadership in a gang that tried to overturn an election. Yeah, so Well, yeah, if you told me he was bipolar I would have gotten the grandiosity real fast Come on man. It is it is a context that is behind this that is absent from any of the reporting

Yeah, and Joe Biggs doesn't know him that well, right? So he doesn't know all this stuff or he's ignoring it. He obviously doesn't know the kind of episodes. He was having it Immediate time right before his death, right? And so he's created a story in his head that is Totally inappropriate. Yeah, and and you can tell from like interviews with the family that I mean, they're gracious as hell Because like talking about the conspiracy stuff. His brother was like, you know, I don't really pay attention to it And I don't like care. He wasn't mad about it. Sure. It doesn't have respect for the right the stuff Boy, now I'm going back thinking about the emails

I've sent on a manic episode wondering which one I would prefer to die after It's really fucking the world up Jesus Christ and you know in manic episodes particularly Exacerbated by substances like yeah, you can feel invincible and you might Feel like you can drive your car a hundred twenty miles an hour in a residential neighborhood Honestly, I will tell you this most people who are on a manic episode are taking stimulates to calm themselves down That's weird. It's I mean, it's the it's like it's like people with hyperactivity disorder taking Ritalin a stimulant It's it's too it's to keep you from going too far. Like that's what keeps you sane. I think we've talked about this before that the

Weird way that meds can have different effects on yeah in different doses and on different people. Yeah, it's very different times. Yeah So This context I think is really super important when you're on like understanding and looking at the circumstances of this because you know devoid of a lot of context you do have the ingredients of this conspiracy Yeah, and ignoring the reality of the situation Is Kind of a choice. Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely So anyway, that's what they choose. All you need it. All you need to say is like a oh, yeah a week before

He made a surprise $10,000 purchase and I'd be like, haha I know this man. Haha. Yeah, so Alex is agree. He's just decided that it was a bomb. Yeah and a murder. I should We need to go talk to the police and the fire department and if they're told not to talk to people I said this on air over and over again, and if they try to suppress the police reports the first reports. I Said ladies and gentlemen, it means national security pressure was put on him. This is NDA a type stuff and Again, ladies and gentlemen, I happen to know through family connections and things that there have been

Federal hit teams in this country. They don't even have to hire organized crime for a very long time I'm gonna leave it at that. Yeah, so I guess it's federal hit teams. Yeah Um, I I mean, you know, I don't know if they were like sealing the the Police report as much as like maybe You didn't ask. Yeah, or maybe the wrong person asked the wrong department or something. Yeah I I don't know. I mean, it's available. I found it. Yeah, but I I can't speak for in 2013 You know, like I don't know if it was widely available to everyone them. Yeah, that's a good point Um, but I assume that you know

Legitimate journalists could probably get it. Maybe not Alex. Yeah, I mean they they figured out that the FBI killed Fred Hampton pretty quick It took a while, but it was pretty quick So in this next clip Alex just does some misrepresentation work. He said look the family. I've been to the funeral They're you know, they're scared, but you know, the wife is saying she wants to bring down whoever did this You think that'd be national news No news coverage of him saying that On this show two weeks later Okay, so this thing about wanting to take down whoever did this to michael

That's not something we can really attribute to his wife at least jordan right Um, this is something that alex will cite as Her words, okay The only source on this is joe big saying that she said it to him great and his credibility isn't good zero It's zero when you consider her cnn interview and blanket dismissal of conspiracy theories around the death It really doesn't seem like bigs is accurately conveying what she said, which is disrespectful This whole thing is very disrespectful right and all allowing alex to do this Yeah, if you are his good friend allowing alex to play these games

Is shit. Yep, and all they're gonna do because here's what you have to say eventually It's they got to her, you know, that's why she's telling all these things 100% the moment you say that you have removed her as a human being from the world I found a Paul joseph watson article. Yeah about her cnn appearance and he's like mysteriously. She's changed her tune Yep, and it's like there is no there's no win. Oh, there's no way Um, no your host so bigs has some details that he's bringing to the table But we commend you staff sergeant bigs for being a good friend a good american And and investigating and I think a lot of credence has been added to your questioning now

Um, what do you think of everything that's transpired since we talked a week and a half ago, sir? Yeah, there's a lot of crazy things been popping up. Um, I found out recently that the lepd actually made a stop by michael's house Just a couple days prior And uh, they were spotted there. He was also spotted looking under his car a few days prior So that in itself is pretty uh pretty fishy along with the fact that I called lepd And they told me there's nothing they can do they they wouldn't tell me anything and it seemed as soon as who are you michael's name They all kind of you're just an asshole Just acted a bit

You know uneased Well, I'd say so by helping cover up they began to enter the galaxy of uh being accomplices. Wow walk through this This is really newsworthy for everyone in the state of this country So joe is saying that the la pd stopped by this appearance But weirdly by august this would turn into the feds There we go. All of this is based on just things that joe bigs is saying There's no corroborating evidence on this at all and it's so weird other details changed as he talked to alex more

Yeah, same thing for the looking under the car There's no evidence that joe's providing of this and all reporting on this traces back solely to him Although I think he does obliquely cite a news crew in la or something sure But I don't know that's not verifiable. Yeah, but I mean honestly that one could be true michael was having a manic episode news on stimulants So I wouldn't be surprised if he had a seriously heightened state of paranoia Yeah, it's possible that he could have been seen looking under his car, but I don't think that means anything Honestly, he could have had one of those magnetic things because he's left his keys in the house could be that's

I've done that a million times That's how it works. Yeah, there's any number of variables that could explain that being true if it's even true Yeah, also, maybe the la pd couldn't disclose information to a random dude calling Which now joe is letting alex report to the audience as proof that they're in on the cover-up It's not super cool. Yeah, not great stuff I appreciate that alex described him with the two things that I think he would be described as the least in real life Which is good friend and good american great american I think he's I think he's proved himself to be a terrible friend and he tried to overthrow america in that

But he was doing it for america because he was such a great friend No, no that makes sense that makes sense now that you said it like that so now this clip sucks I talked to you the attacks a few days ago You said you were going to be talking to the police and calling the fire department walk through who you called What happened what unfolded? Well, I called and uh, I called the corner to to ask about Where the body was and they said that they had Released it a while back that when I had spoken to the family

They hadn't received it yet So that was pretty odd and then when I called the la pd and asked for a report Um, I said what steps do I need to go through to uh file to get a copy of the police report on michael hasen's death And then all of a sudden they're like well, we need to transfer you and then someone told me well We can't help you with this and it just kind of got pushed around I went from one person's call to another and oh, that's not newsworthy that the body's missing Obviously, they're gonna have to because you've you've been in common. We jumped to missing you bad idea Uh, couldn't you cast and and pick up the residue of an explosive?

Um, well, what happened was is they ended up, uh, apparently cremating the body Oh, whoa, you hadn't robbed them. Oh, they decided to do that Yeah, I'm not sure I haven't heard back from his wife yet if that's what they wanted But I mean, I'm pretty sure that's something that he wouldn't have wanted. I'm pretty sure. I mean anybody would want their family to have an actual Funeral I don't legitimately nothing real was said in that clip Joe has no idea if the family wanted a cremation or if uh, in fact, michael himself did he's just guessing Further, he's allowing alex to create these absurd conspiracy talking points off the things he's saying

And that's unacceptable. I mean like and these were things that became conspiracy theory talking points Joe says that the coroner said they released the body but the family hadn't received it But the time frame of these conversations isn't clear But alex jumps in and puts two and two together that this means that they had to get rid of the body because if they didn't It would test positive for explosive remnants. Sure This is how alex operates and it's not as a sincere interviewer He has a conclusion in mind that he's already decided to push as his narrative In this case, it's that michael hastings was killed by a car bomb as retribution for his reporting or to stop him from reporting

On the thing he was working on at the time Everything that joe says or any guest says really will be filtered through that narrative And alex will be constantly working to try and make whatever said fit the narrative alex hears joe say nonsense about the body and alex decides to jump to the conclusion that the body is missing So now the question is why is the body missing within the narrative? What's the reason someone would lose the body? It's obviously to cover up for the explosives That's the story alex is writing as a way to make every piece of information conformed to his narrative But none of it's real. It's all completely imagined in his head. I mean and and I

Joe's letting him do it. Yeah, I'm not going. I'm not going to to claim some sort of expertise But if I have understood all of the car bombings that I've ever studied in the past like though Like the ones in uh in what was it like ohio the the fucking troubles like you use a car bomb to To publicly assassinate somebody and send a message That you have assassinated that person. Well, you do not car bomb somebody and then cover it up They think this is sending a message to the media But it's but that doesn't make any sense If you want to if you want to kill somebody in a car and make it look like an accident

The car is a bomb True. I mean, I mean, but I I agree with what you're saying But I also know that alex thinks that it is a message still even though there's a cover-up That's just not how you do it. It's it's a little weird. That's just weird Also as it turns out the family did request the cremation. Yeah, that makes sense There was a huge conspiracy blitz around the idea that they hadn't which was reported by a local news person in san diego named Kim Dvorak based on something she heard from a quote close family friend who I would bet anything is joe big God damn it. The family wanted cremation after all the autopsy and toxicology results were done, which happened

Everything joe and alex are saying is disconnected from reality. It's just a real shame. Yeah, it's uh, and this is the This is like the point I want to make. Yeah, there's two things that are happening here One is that joe is allowing alex to distort and twist everything he's saying in service of a bizarre and unhinged conspiracy That he should know better than to do that. This is not a sincere Actor at work, right? And then alex you can see the way that he's working You know, you can see the way that he's taking these little pieces and then Recontextualizing them reframing them. Oh, the body is missing. Yeah

In trying to get it into ways that he can work with it. Yeah, you see those two trains running Uh, uh, it's sort of parallel. Yeah, no, it's it's a little bit like the the price to entry for bigs Is to play a game of improv with with alex. So dude, that's exactly what I That's exactly how I put it I conceived of it as like the price of entry is allowing alex to exploit his life. Yeah And like that is that's what it is. Yeah, it's it's almost like so many people got into this through a contest Joe is getting an audition. Yep by uh, by being the person that alex is Distorting to create the these Hastings. No, it is. It's like you're good to play ball. That's what it is

It's bananas. Yeah, and uh, you know through this, uh, joe kept coming on to talk about michael hastings Shit, and then eventually he's hired as a reporter Branches out into his own thing and starts doing some stuff like with ferguson starts doing stuff with Uh, jade helm. Yeah, he's a gate. He's ingratiated himself to the leader. Yeah, then he gets fired It's just when he's been uh, disgraced. How many thousands of years are we gonna do the same shit? So, um, michael's brother flew in and was there with him and experienced these, um, you know The difficulties he was having in the the last days Um, and alex asks when's the last time joe talked to him

Man, I tell you, uh, when was the last time you you physically talked to him? I mean over the phone or in person rather than email Uh, michael? Yes uh Probably three months ago What? I mean, you knew him so well and he was embedded with you for a long time Uh, and he's one of the guys, you know, he sent this email to what do you think he would be saying now if this would have happened to Another investigative journalist like himself. I don't think that's the answer. Uh alex wanted

I think that that kind of Creates an a perception of like, oh, you guys knew each other, but maybe you weren't they weren't as close as Yeah, you know not talking for three months. No, your sweet spot is a week Yeah A week before is believable enough that people aren't like, oh, are you really going to claim that you talk to him An hour before the car accident, you know two weeks two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. No, but that's what i'm saying Yeah, three months is too long. That's way too long way too long for the story that is being sold here for the narrative It's too long for him to have any purchase as somebody with inside information around this. Yeah, that is way too disconnected

You're an acquaintance. You're a friendly acquaintance. Yeah, and I'll believe that based on your time in uh, uh, afghanistan I believe whatever wherever they were in 2008 in the combat I would even accept the the traditional comedians the other day, you know the old the old oh this happened to be the other day Was that three or four years ago? That would be last year could have been the other day. That would be bad Yeah, I wouldn't do that one. So, uh, they start spitballing ideas that they are not going to ever do Well, what's gonna happen if a lot of people start dying like this? I think there'll be some pushback. So Well, I mean if my car blows up and I guess we all know, uh Uh, they better start looking around. Well, you know, I'm buddy. We need to actually think about that

I think if we went out to los angeles Maybe we should go out to los angeles together. I'm not I don't think you're afraid. I'm not afraid I'm actually afraid of giving into this fear And and if the family invited me I will go and investigate I'll jump in I'll jump in anyone's face. I don't care. I want to find out you will too. I'll go to LA you will buddy Well, I think we I mean you're his friend. So you've got some jurisdiction to do it I I I've got his wife's contact info or email and the twitter. I know you've got her number and stuff

But I I get people having kids. This is getting scary wanting to give it some space You know, she says she wants to bring down who did it But but I I'm not expecting a woman to you know charge around but I've told she has a lot of courage Damn throwing some misogyny in the end there. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, Alex do not wait for that invitation from the family to come because I don't think Based on everything that I've seen I do not think they would be interested in uh, you coming down to investigate No, no, no, no, no, no Jesus oof oof oof man people people boy

I the one thing that I don't want is for info wars and Alex to to just have my confo contact info I bet they do. Oh, that's a good point. I bet they do. Yeah. Yeah I mean given the uh, I I'm just basing this on my website, but I'm also basing this on the million page Uh background report they had on Lenny Pozner. That's a good point I imagine maybe they've done a background check on you and I if they want it. They've got it. Yeah, gotcha Um So there's another question for joe and I think this is dumb I'm gonna give you the floor instead of me

Asking questions about other points you'd like to make or what you'd like to say to people out there A the cowards that are going along with this and maybe those that were part of this because I don't know how they think they're gonna have a future in a country this corrupt Well, I know whoever did this You know, you got me to look forward to seeing I'm gonna definitely find out what's going on because I'm gonna Pull back those uh, those band-aids. I'm gonna dig into that scab and I'm gonna find out that dirt And I'm gonna come after them and bring that into the media as fast as I can And whatever I can find out, I will I think it's safe to say that joe definitely didn't keep pushing for the truth on this until he

Uncovered it all he allowed alexton Sensationalize his tenuous connection to a real story in a way that was disrespectful to the family of the deceased And for that he got to become an info wars employee where he went on to do a ton of terrible work before he was fired And ended up having to try to do his own youtube channel and do some stuff with the right side broadcasting Oh, well helming a violent street gang started by Gavin McGinnis where everyone has to name cereals and not masturbate It's an understatement to say that joe lost his own plot But that's because it was never his real plot. He wasn't a man on the hunt for the truth He was looking for a way in and alex gave it to him. So, you know

Yeah, he just took a job interview. Yeah, I mean that's is it that much different from being like, I mean he he goes in He has this to bring to alex and then they do a little they do a little back and forth And he's like, okay. Well, you're you're good And the the interesting thing that I think about is like he was all over the place doing all of these interviews And I don't think he was looking for a job at like rt or with megan kelly or anything I don't know if that was Like his initial intention But some sort of a branding and being in the public eye definitely seems to be yeah

I think he what most likely happened there is he wound up taking a job at info wars after the attention dried up Right to the point where the only way to get that boost again is to go to someone and you know, it's so interesting that like in joe's Later career or whatever, you know, it's not really even talked about that much that He rose to prominence on info wars as the guy who was good friends with michael haystakes. No, there was a weird It's I mean everything I've read about it. I think a lot of people Specifically keep info wars out of a lot of people's credits Yeah, in order to give them the air of a big bad like roger stone in every article in 2018

None of them were like roger stone Contributor to the war room on info wars host with owen shoyer exactly None of them none of them have portrayed him as the giant loser that he was they all try to build him up as the World traveling ratfucker, you know, and the bigs is the same way. He's the big leader of the proud boys He's the guy who will get into a fight with you It doesn't take away from that Reality to understand that he is also an info wars shithead right, but But in the in the papers, that's kind of what they do. That's what I've seen at least

Maybe it just over complicates things and yeah, is joe like it in terms of the like Events of january 6th in particular. Sure. Is his employment in the past at info wars that relevant? Maybe maybe not sure. I'm not sure I mean it seems relevant that he used to work at the same place that uh, the other Satitious conspiracy guy was a guest on frequently. Yeah, that seems like the two of them have one massive connection Yeah, and uh, stewart roads. His group was the oath keepers about like former police and military folks and Maybe this is a retired staff sergeant. So it was almost certainly connected with the oath keepers

Maybe maybe we should look at the uh, I don't know. Oh, and alex was bullhorning on january 6th and leading a huge group of people Yeah, I mean ultimately that's going to be the the problem with all the prosecution for january 6th and all that stuff is that the people who Have the ability to make one happen again are the only ones not receiving consequences for it Maybe yeah, so alex gives his version of what happened Uh with haystings and joe just goes along with it These are he had found out how bad they really are He'd had that moment of conscience that he was going to go all the way and they blew him up

And and the issue is that if they kill you if they kill me it becomes more and more obvious This has happened a lot in history. All that matters is they're going to get taken down if we all cower Then they're going to win and start killing whoever they want Yeah, well, I'm not going to cower. I'll tell you that I'll stand right in their face and tell them how it is Well, they're cowards. They'll put another car bomb on you, but they probably aren't going to do that I mean he had something big for them to do that and it was a message to the media You know because the media is not stupid. They know they killed him. Yeah, see it's a message

So yeah, uh, joe just allows alex to basically hijack and take over this entire Thing as a conspiracy and he seems like an incredibly willing participant in it Yeah, we've got we've got a message being sent to the media. The body is missing Everything's a cover-up. Mm-hmm. Jesus christ. Yeah, and whether or not it was joe's intention to convey those messages he is the person who is creating the air of legitimacy to anything that alex makes up because That too and the raw materials from which alex is creating totally bullshit talking points

And he is willingly going along with it, which is I brought you ten thousand pounds of clay. Will you make a lie with me? Yeah, yeah, it's a mess. Yeah, so joe would go on to get a job Uh at info wars and he would fit in real nice over there Not only was he completely unbothered by lying But he also had one of the other defining characteristics of people that work at that company being a real asshole Nope. Oh a steadfast inability to criticize creative media Ha, that's fair. So I found a film review that joe biggs did while he was at it for once Oh my god. So he has some thoughts about the movie logon. God damn it. That's my favorite x file. Yeah, I know

Brand new movie out called Logan starring Hugh Jackman It's the last movie about wolverine and in this movie the bad guy's name is Donald and it's about a bunch of little illegal kids and they're illegal because in the year 2026 It's illegal to be a mutant and these little illegal kids just escaped this horrible military compound in Juarez, Mexico And they finally get away from the bad guys who run that medical facility in that military facility and they get to America And donald's there and he's running around trying to chase him and kill him and snatch him up and and do tests to him With this huge militarized police force and they just want to get to canada because that's where turdo is and it's the safest place to be

Oh my god, the propaganda the subliminal messaging in the media in the movies right now is through the roof The villain in that movie was uh, donald pierce who's been a marvel character since 1980 He's specifically designed as like he was inspired by donald southerland apparently of of all The criticisms to have towards this movie. If I understand it correctly His is somehow an anti-immigration criticism So and and a criticism that they're making the villain donald trump sure sure sure I understand that we are just not going to deal with them. Just I can't handle just oh that name is the same I can't I can't handle that. Yes. It is an immigration right right. So it's an immigration thing, but again

his problem appears to be That they are not staying in mexico in the place where they're being tortured and experiment right right right, but like Shouldn't your problem shouldn't your problem with the movie be that they don't want to go to the united states? Because they want to not go to the one to go to eat They want to go as far away from you can you people as possible because you're the ones who own the torture murder machine Yeah, the uh, the like the elegant solution would be like Give them an assist. Yeah, why aren't people coming to their aid and totally stopping donald from hurting them? While they make passage to the united states to where they're safe. Give them an escort

You don't want them in your country. That's your deal. I don't know what to do with you in the country They don't want to be there in the movie. So just help them go right. What are you doing? You're like no no no no Just because they don't want to be in our country doesn't mean we don't want them to be tortured in some other country but it is a little bit strange too because like I mean the fundamental tension in Every x-man thing is the idea of uh, it being illegal to be a mutant Yeah, like the prospect of that happening right people

Stigmatizing mutants right the idea that joe bigs is like this is something like Like it's it's unique to this movie. No, it's it's the whole thing. That's the whole thing. Yeah, the whole thing That's it Yeah, he didn't get it. I mean it is It makes sense though. It makes sense that he physically like on a on a physical I I imagine on a an electron level. Yeah, cannot understand The mutants are immigrants uh from mexico, right donald pierce is donald trump, right? Of logan is bernie sanders. I guess and canada is trudeau and canada the clone of logan

Is uh, howard d because he does So, uh, joe starts uh complaining about the immigration situation and he ends because of logan because of logan because of logan The whole thing turns into a screed about immigrants. Ah, man Any movie other than logan that just doesn't make any sense But anyways, he ends up saying something that is a little ironic in hindsight Uh-huh. Now if you come here illegally, you are a criminal Doesn't matter if you've committed felonies or murder anything like that. You're that's already a criminal fence You're now a criminal

So when people say well, we're only gonna get rid of the you know the people with criminal backgrounds that are here illegally No, if you're here illegally you are a criminal if I go somewhere illegally. I am a criminal So they don't get any free pass. I'm sorry. Ooh like the boy that sure is ironic Boy, I gotta go back and listen to everything I've ever said and try and scrub shit from the internet that might come back to bite me later on That uh podcast might be able to use to uh mock you What a fucking face plant. Yeah. Oh boy. Yep. Oh doing a review of logan and oh my god Pointing a finger at himself in the future. You know, I just don't even know The amount of times we jump back and forth through different eras and see these people have

Bare knuckled knockdown drag-out fights with themselves from 10 years ago. It's mind boggling Well, I mean, I think it's telling because their principles don't really exist. Yeah, you know, yeah, there is just uh sort of a Sort of a defensiveness a oppositional defiance and and basically just anger. Yeah, that's kind of all that's going on Yeah, all that I would do if you went back it is I as I'd be like, hey Jordan learn all these lessons faster idiot That's what I would do. I would hope I would hope that like playing stuff from from the past of mine to just be like Yeah, I learned that lesson I don't do that anymore. Yeah And let me explain to you how I've grown sense of that right or whatever people caught that they called me out on it

I learned from it and now I don't do that anymore. That's called the learning process Poor joe. Anyway, uh, we come to the end of this and uh, this is the longest I've ever spent thinking about joe bigs Yeah, me too by a white margin and actually I had kind of intended for this to be more all-encompassing Like I ended to talk a little bit about like the jade helm stuff and the pizza gate stuff in more Detail, but I realized I think we talked about the pizza gate already. Sure Um, you know might not actually be as interesting and this this kind of felt like it had a no, I like this I think you nailed it. Thanks as long as it ends with the critique of Logan Everything that comes before is great. He has a couple other movie reviews that might touch on in the future

But uh, for now, this is where we're at. What is it? What is it like to watch a movie in their brains? What movie are you watching? I think if I recall correctly I think that they have a decent review of Uh, winter soldier Cabin America winter. All right. Okay. I think well, it is the most conspiracy laden of the marvel films. Yeah, yeah I think I Don't want to say this and be held to it. But I yeah, this is gonna be a five years from now people

Playing this clip. I feel like their review of it was it made more sense. Okay. Okay, because you know what? I think jacari jackson's a Comix is a comics guy. So he he regardless of what they all have going on. He's like, yeah, but listen I like the silver age. Okay. At the comatode at the end of the video. He's like, uh, you know, the people who are in the cage That's actually magnetos. Okay. There we go. Yeah All right, jacari. Yeah, buddy. So I think you might be able to understand some of the comic tropes, right? That that maybe fly past And everyone else is like, you know what? Why are the bad guys the one who torture children? Yeah. Hmm makes you think makes you think

So anyway, uh, good luck. Joe Biggs. Good luck. Um, we'll be back Until then we have a website. It's uh, yes, we do. It's knowledge fight.com. Yep. Uh, we're also on twitter We are on twitter. It's at knowledge underscore fight. Yep. We'll be back. But until then I'm neil. I'm leo. I'm dzx clerk Oh, you know what? And now here comes the sex robots. Andy and chanzas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding Hello, Alex. I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you