Knowledge Fight - #794: January 30-February 2, 2004

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan reunite by sticking around in the past to check out what Alex gets up to.  In this installment, Alex meanders about the OKC bombing, talks to a guy who's named Blood, and gets all peeved about the 2004 Super Bowl halftime show.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George knowledge fight. Need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. You're on the air, thanks for holding us. Hello Alex and Mr. Tim Cullen, I'm a huge fan. I love you, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm George. We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are Dan. Jordan. Jordan. I have a quick question for you. What's up? What's your bright spot today, buddy? I say you go first. Oh, well, my bright spot is obviously

a combination of enjoying my time with my wife in Toronto. We had a great time up in the great north. Oh, absolutely. We walked across the entire city of Toronto. It's a beautiful city. Did you have a pedometer on? She's got her. She had her little Apple watch. Yeah. And then that we, yeah, we officially walked, I think like 28 miles or something like that. Nice. In five days. Getting your steps in the steps in and then, you know, find that with, I'm happy to be back. Sure. It's good. It's good to go. You got to go away to come back. That's right. You know, that's the way it's got to be. Absolutely. So it feels good. You don't know what you got. Absolutely. You've never been anywhere

until you got home. Deep. Yeah. Deep thought. Quite deep. What was your, what was your favorite thing that you got to do while you were up there in Canada? I mean, I think one, we went to one of the, uh, we went to the cool hip new cocktail bar that, uh, that has no sign. It's one of those places. So it's like kind of pretending it's an old speakeasy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You can't find it. It's all of that noise. And, uh, yeah, it was, the drinks were fantastic. You know, they were, they were some of the best cocktails I've ever had in my life. And the experience of that is fun too. But at the same time, it's, it's fucking bourgeois bullshit. You know, and you're sitting there and you're like,

what are you people doing here? This, everybody's got man buns, which I'm not complaining about. I do too. Now and again, you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that, but whenever you've got an entire staff of man buns, you've made a choice. Do you know what I mean? We have a pack of man. Exactly. Exactly. There's, there's definitely that. So that was, that was really interesting. We went to medieval times. Sure. We were talking a little bit. Oh yeah. Absolutely. It was, uh, it was her first time going. So everything that was happening, she was just like, why, why is this going on? It's a lot. It's a lot to take in. Yeah. If you, if you've never been, I, I've only been once and I speak from my first time. It was

a lot. Yeah. Me and my friend, uh, Angela Lampsberry went and, uh, it was disorienting. It is a little bit like, I don't understand quite what we're doing here. They don't let you have silverware. They want you to call people when shoes. Yeah. I can't handle this. We freaked out. She was like, uh, our, our, our server. Oh, it's like, I love it when you call me wench, please call me wench. And I'm sitting here going like, this is either, uh, I can't, I can't do it. I cannot call you wench woman. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I've told this story on the podcast or even in person, uh, with you off the podcast. But when we went, we were waiting in line at the bar and the guy in front of us got cut

off. He was too drunk. He got cut off. Oh boy. And so like the woman who was working couldn't give him more beer. And so he threw his cup at her, like, and it felt so terrible because she couldn't break character. Right. It was just like, Oh my God. It felt so bad for quite a bit to try and make up for it. But like, God, what an asshole. That guy. We tipped very well. It is, it is like you've made, you've, you've made everyone call you a wench. I need to give you more money for, I don't know how to help you. I assume that everyone who works there kind of enjoys that aesthetic stuff, but it, it feels to me like a Renaissance fair full of people who aren't passionate about it. Yes. Yes. Yes. That sucks.

But the horse dressage is amazing. You know, like as far as, as far as the falconry, did the falconry, that was great. You, it is, it is majestic to watch a bird fly like that. It's pretty wild to be sitting in the stands and it just goes like almost controlled around. It's very cool. It's very cool. Um, yeah, that's, uh, so yeah, what's your right spot? Well, I have a two fold right spot. My first is a thank you to you for doing that interview with Jeff Charlotte. Yeah. I'm really excited about how, uh, you know, this series, let's say, or whatever these interviews that you've done is really, it's really awesome. Um, to be able to show the audience a little more of, of you, you know what I mean? Like, uh,

no, no, we talked about this. Right. I loved being the dumb guy. That was great. Now here we are, I'm screwed. Right. I know. Now there's so much expectations on you. Exactly. We've broken the premise of this. But you know, on, beyond that or leaving that to the side, if you will, um, you know, I, I know that you're a smart guy and what have you. There's a lot of bullying and good fun on the show. Of course. Um, but it is, it is great to have a, something where you can shine and show some of that. So I want, that's, that's really a bright spot for me. Cause it sometimes does feel like there's an unnecessary like heightening of my knowledge because I prepare for the episodes and that, uh, you know, to have a

context where, and you could, uh, even the scales a little except you don't like that. I like the way things are. So maybe it's not a bright spot. No, it's very much. Thank you very much. But the compliment is very appreciated. Wow. Don't let it go to your head. I won't. My other bright spot is I got a message over, uh, the time that you were away and, um, I had forgotten that I hadn't taken it down, uh, but our, uh, go fund me for the, the button, uh, time, uh, hit its goal. Oh, hey. And so now we have officially over the course of these two, uh, go fund me campaigns, uh, one for reproductive health care access. The other for the transgender law center raised over $35,000 for these

out of here, these campaigns. And so thank you all so much to everybody who has, uh, has, uh, uh, been a part of it. It's so, it's so thrilling to be able to, uh, uh, be a part of that, uh, ourselves. Yeah. I know. It sucks that I'm, I'm about $32,000, uh, less, uh, but, but, you know, it's good. Sure. You took a bath on that, but it's worth it. This one, but it's worth it. And this leads me to another thing. Yes. Which is in terms of the buttons, two Wonka buttons have been accounted for. Hmm. But guess what? What? The third one was found. What? Yes. Holy shit. This has been an exciting day. Fiona out in Scotland. Oh shit. Found the third one. I believe it was in a mailbox or something

and it was not found, uh, until later, but I'm so thrilled that it didn't, uh, get lost in the mail or, or something. And so all the bright spot buttons have found their homes. Amazing. So congratulations. Uh, Fiona, I'm going to do a song, uh, from Willy Wonka. Come with me and we'll be in a world button, button, button, button, button. It's trying to think of another song that I can't. Oh, but what other songs are there? Uh, there's a candy man. Oh yeah. There is the candy man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. I got a golden ticket. Is that, is that a song? That's not really a song. What about the part where the grandpa jumps out of bed and does, do, do, do, do. I suppose that would count

as a jig more than a song, but I'll take it. My buddy, Nate Burroughs had a great joke about that. Oh yeah. About how, uh, his reaction, uh, to the grandpa getting out of bed is like, you could walk this whole time. Yeah. Absolutely. What is going on here? Yeah. Just start chipping it around here. I appreciate what I, what I loved the most about it is how much of a struggle it was at first and then how quickly everyone forgets that this man was not able to walk just a short while ago. No, he was able to walk the entire time, which is maybe the problem. Yeah. So Jordan, today we have an episode to go over and, um, well, here's the thing. Trump got arrested while you were gone. Yeah, I've heard that. And I think a

lot of people probably want us to cover that stretch of time. Sure. I would say that it's not as fulfilling as you want it to be. And it's actually a lot of virulent transphobia. Yeah, that does make more sense. It's going on during it. Yeah. So I didn't necessarily want our return. We haven't recorded in over a week. It's been over a week. So I didn't want it to be just a, uh, beating over the head with awful things. Sure. It is a welcome back from the occasion, which we can do for Wednesday. Sure. Certainly we can loop back to this. We were, you know, not saying we're not going to cover it, but I felt like a reunion. We needed something else needed something that didn't have a like real blah flavor to

it. So I'm sticking around in the past. Okay. And we're going to be talking about January 30th to February 2nd, 2004. Do you know what happens during that time? I do not. I'll give you a spoiler. Okay. The Super Bowl. Okay. Wait, what year is that 2004? So that would have been who, uh, let's go with, um, wait, 2004. Was that the year the Bears were in the Super Bowl? I don't know the team with, uh, uh, no, that was probably 2003 or no, this would have been the 2003 2004 season. This may have been when Devin Hester opened the Super Bowl with a kickoff return for a touchdown on the season that he was absolutely amazing for. And then the Bears lost by 40 points.

I can tell you whatever the teams were or whatever the, the sport of it was, that is not what it's remembered for. This is the Janet Jackson Super Bowl. Oh, this is that one. Yes. All right. So no, it was, uh, that would have been, wasn't that the Pats would have been another Pat Super Bowl Patriots? Who cares? I don't care. I don't, I don't, all I, all I know is what Alex talks about and the things I looked into because of that. Right. The teams never come up. Okay. So, okay. Well, that makes sense. And this actually isn't the, uh, sharp focus of the episode, but it does, uh, come into the, uh, February second episode because that's on a Monday. Right. So we're talking about a February,

uh, Friday to Monday. Gotcha. Uh, thing. And the Super Bowl is over that weekend. Okay. So we'll get down to business on this and have our little return, uh, voyage. But before we do, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks. Oh, that's a great idea. So first I started a new job and had to sign a non-compete agreement. Thank you so much. You're an aisle policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. That's fun. Next, uh, I say cool beans all the time too. Thank you so much. You're an aisle policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Let me ask you a question about cool beans. What about it? How do you spell cool? Uh, C O O L. Oh, so it's not a K E W L. No, no, no,

no, no. I don't have, I don't have a K E W L in me. I seem to recall a lot of people who were cool beans, people spelling it that way. I have literally never spelled the word cool with a K in my life, except for the cigarettes. Oh, sure. Yeah. House of cool. Yeah. House of menthol. Yeah. Anyway, next, uh, hello, Benny B. I told you I'd shout you out. Thank you so much. You're an aisle policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And we got some technocrats in the mix, Jordan. So we actually have three, a trio of technocrats. Get the fuck out. So first, Hey, James, this is Danny. You'd better be studying cybersecurity right now. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. Uh, Bill from Toronto, father

of Harrison and Lachlan. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. And my son wants me to submit D's nuts for this, but instead I'm just going to say happy 13th birthday. Thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. I have risen above my enemies. I might quit tomorrow actually. I'm just going to take a little break. You know, a little breakie for me. And then we're going to come back and I'm going to start the show over, but I'm the devil. I got to be taken out there. Fuck you. Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you, but at the end of the day, fuck you in your new world order and fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit. Maybe today should be my last broadcast. Maybe I'll just

be gone a month, maybe five years. Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow and you never see me again. That's really what I want to do. I never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. I'll be better tomorrow. He's not. He's bad. He's terrible. And we'll talk about that in the present day on, uh, on Wednesday. I mean, yeah, for now, he's just being bad in the past. He's not, he's not, I'll be better tomorrow and he's not. It's I'll be better yesterday. Yeah. And he's not still not. Nope. No. So, uh, we started off here on January 30th and Alex is complaining about listening to a caller on Russia Limbaugh. He was, uh,

he was listening to some rush, which we know he does because he's just doing a rush. He's just doing totally. Um, but he heard something that he deems to be slick propaganda. Oh, no. He's describing that way. And so yesterday I get off air and I'm flipping around through radio stations and I hear Limbaugh and very sophisticated propaganda. He's going, well, yeah, what Bush is doing, you know, I apologize for having to say that it's, it's wrong. What Bush is doing with big government, but what are you going to do? And well, I tell you, Bush, you know, he got control of the ship and he just is having trouble slowing it down. The lady on the phone says, no, he's accelerating the speed of the cruise ship. And Limbaugh

just said, oh, no, and just, just hung up on her. And well, you know, what are you going to do? You know, you still got to vote for Bush because, you know, we can't have the Democrats in there and yeah, we just got to get used to it, you know, so the government's grown by 45% in the last three years. And so, um, you know, all these federal programs are getting expanded and all this, but well, you know, Bush just can't help it. And so the thing that Alex is complaining about rush doing here is exactly how he operates in the present day as it relates to Trump. Alex has in effect become the thing that he hated in the past and called sophisticated propaganda. God damn abyss always looking back. In the

case of rush, it's that rush is making excuses for Bush's tendency toward big government and appealing to how the alternative is way worse in order to make supporting Bush more appealing to the audience. Compare that to the extreme levels of rationalization Alex does for Trump, where he has to tell the audience complicated stories about how Trump put out the COVID vaccine, but he didn't know what he was doing or that he was tricked by the globalists into doing it. Every bad thing Trump does has an in-world explanation that at least partially exonerates him from full blame. And think about how Alex has created a world for his audience where you have to support Trump, at least partially because

the alternative is the Democrats who he's trained the audience to believe are literally demon possessed pedophiles who want to drink your children's blood. Yeah, it's tough to walk back from that one. Yeah. Yeah, you can't really deescalate from Hey guys, I got this one wrong. The Democrats are fine. I misread this. That's not going to happen. Yeah. Oh, it turns out the Democrats are getting a lot better. What? Okay. In the past, Alex called this behavior sophisticated propaganda and on some level he's right. It's at least somewhat manipulative persuasion, but part of the reason he's attacking Rush like this in the past is that he didn't understand the game Rush was playing because Alex had the luxury of

not being invested in electoral politics. Electro politics is at best an attempt to get a representative into office who will try to get your preferred policies made into law. The candidates themselves aren't human embodiments of these policies and people of some maturity recognize that even if a person you want to win gets into office, that doesn't guarantee the policy you want will pass. Simultaneously, you recognize that if the person you support loses, that's not the end of the road for you supporting the policies that you support. That's something that exists on a plane above the election. The election is just an opportunity to put into office people you believe will help support the policy you want to see enacted.

At its worst, electoral politics is essentially a boxing match. It's a singular event that happens and then once it's happened, your person is in or they're not. When you're an entertainer on the political space and you don't foster any deeper appreciation for what politics is in your audience, this is how you have to interact with elections. Building towards a climactic conflict and building the tension around that event drives ratings and gets listeners excited. In 2003, Alex wasn't on some mature tip when he was actually above focusing on electoral politics but he was pretending to be and that was a solid brand. It allowed him to make criticisms of this, like this of Rush and at this point

it's really hard to argue with his point. In order to support Bush, Rush does need to make a bunch of rationalizations and appeal to lesser of two evil arguments because the end goal of winning the election is all that's important there. Rush is more of a GOP shill but he and Alex are both entertainers. It's just at this point Alex was pretending to be more than that. Now that Alex has taken a bite from that forbidden fruit of supporting a candidate who won the election and seen how much money he was able to make off-centering his entire coverage and worldview around propping up this central figure, he finds himself in a similar position to where Rush was in 2004. The big difference is that Rush never cried

on air about how Bush was a God-appointed king or how he was willing to die for Bush. Alex is essentially a comically desperate version of what he called sophisticated neocon propaganda in the past and it's fun to see these glimpses because another thing you can take away from it is that Alex understands this. In the present day he knows these techniques, he knows very valid criticisms of the very things that he's doing. He's not totally Magoo. No, no, no. I do appreciate also the difference between him and Rush in this sophisticated propaganda is that Rush can be like, well, you know, yes, he's expanding federal programs but he's also doing this better. Rush, can you imagine Rush in 2004 being like, yes,

Bush did kill 17 million Americans with a poison shot. Of course he did. We all know that. But he's mean to the woke liberals. Exactly. That's where we're at as far as Alex's argument. And he has a character that I can project onto him, that he's going to do the things that we want this time around. He lies to us the way we want to be lied to as opposed to Bush who lied to us in the wrong way. I guess when I said that I think he's kind of right about it being sophisticated propaganda. I agree it's propaganda. It's not very sophisticated. No, no, no, no, no. So I wanted to clarify that it's it's bare bones propaganda, but it's there, you know, sure. Yeah. So Alex gets to lying here about

his interview with Ann Coulter. And I think that this is something that's worth noting because there are these trends that we can track when we listen to his show over time that is the development of myth, essentially, where the reality is overtaken by the false version of the story. Some people I know go, well, I think Ann Coulter is good. You know, she speaks out against the liberals. I've had her on the show. She says, all the Patriot acts good. And I go, what about this section? She said, I haven't read the Patriot Act. I go, your new books got a chapter on how good it is, but you haven't read the Patriot Act. She goes, I'm going to hang up. I'm going to hang up. We got to reair that sometime.

I mean, I still get comments on an interview. And I just said, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I said, well, our own government admits that they put Mao into power. What do you have to say about that? Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to talk about it. It's true, but I'm not going to talk about it. Well, Bush signed on the UNESCO. I'm not going to talk about it. Well, Bush signed campaign finance reform. I'm not going to talk about it. I mean, you remember folks, but you hear on these other shows and it's, oh, she's so smart. She's so pretty. She's so conservative. And again, she's right when she talks about how horrible the liberals are. But again, that's the Democrat brand of liberal. I mean, it's simple. The Democrats

distract you and ooh, there's the boogeyman and then Ann Coulter sticks you in the back with a stiletto. Yeah. And it's real simple, folks. It's not complex. This is not rocket science. I hate Ann Coulter as much as the next guy, but Alex is absolutely lying about how that interview went down. He's creating a myth of how the interview went, which will replace the reality that she was making fun of Alex about how he sounded like a crazy LaRouche follower. And then she didn't say that she never read the Patriot Act. That's how she said she was Alex was talking about Patriot Act two, which is something that didn't exist. Yeah. That was a big high profile interview. Alex got with a major figure in the right wing media and it didn't go well. So he's

constructed a self soothing straw man of that interview. He wanted the interview to be a huge dunk so that he'd be able to use it to attack Ann and the wider right wing mainstream media, but he failed. So this is the way that he has to proceed. Also, it's a weird idea that Alex has here where I guess the Democrats play the role of distraction while the Republicans who are also secretly liberals sneak in and pass liberal policies. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. That's how that makes sense. It's interesting because there's a way to articulate this that makes some sense, but Alex can't not sensationalize things. I would understand it if he said that his side was way too caught up in attacking Democrats and focusing on what they're doing that they never take the time

to pay attention to what's going on in their own party. Sure. Not necessarily that they're passing liberal policies, but maybe liberal to him. Right. Right. Alex's far right extremist views. Sure. Sure. They spend all day complaining about the Clintons and have no time to hold the GOP politicians feet to the fire. That criticism makes some sense, but Alex is discussing this in some kind of like it's an intentional plan where Ann Coulter and the Democrats are working together to run a scam on Alex and his weirdo friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's where things become silly. It doesn't. It's not productive. It's a little bit like it's a little bit like, you know, that whole before you try and remove the splinter from somebody else's, you know,

remove the log from your own. Instead of that, what if instead had been like before you try and remove the evil interdimensional conspiracy? All right. Make sure that you're passing more draconian laws first. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You sound like Jordan Peterson telling someone to clean that room. Yeah. Exactly. That's all I'm hearing. That's what you got to do. So Alex takes some calls, certainly that does happen quite a bit here in the past. And we got, we got a caller here who doesn't like Bush. Uh-oh. I really think that, I really think that it's a time for great discernment. And I think that your listeners certainly are. Well, it doesn't take any great discernment. Yeah. That Mr. New World Order is giving us a New World Order. But again, he's just

a puppet. Yeah. That's right. If we stop our focus on the presidency, right, and, and, and get back down to local levels, we could change this. But, but look, two weeks ago, the neocons were still going Bush is basically the second coming of Christ. We've even heard that imply that he's this anointed. He's perfect. He's wonderful. He's got such courage. He's a Vietnam fighter race. You know, all these incredible lies that they imply. Now all this going on, just incredible propaganda. And now they're having to go, yeah, it is pretty liberal only because the grass roots has put the heat on them and they're losing all credibility. I mean, you just see a mirror. Yeah. You know, like Alex crying about how Trump is the, the, you know, God King and all this and then

having to, because his vex, his base is so severely anti-vax and all this, having to like be like, well, okay, he did do operation warp speed. So it's, it's so, it's so interesting just to hear the self condemnation from the past. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is fascinating to watch what, what I would, you know, almost the inverse of how I've always experienced learning as, you know, like, like he's almost defeating time itself. He's, he's moving backwards in terms of ability to process information. Yeah. It's, it's like, uh, you know, you could excuse behaviors of the present almost. I mean, not really. Cause some of his stuff is far too extreme. But you can excuse mistakes and stuff because you didn't know any better. Sure. But this is

demonstrative that he knows totally knows better. He knew better in the past. He knows all this stuff and he just chooses not to care. You can't unknow a thing. I mean, you can forget it, but it's still in there. Yeah. It's still up there. You can be negligent. Yeah. But yeah, he's a that's, that's, that is like, it is interesting to consider this as an argument for maliciousness. Like imagine, imagine we're in a courtroom and we're talking about actual malice being implied being applied to this kind of case. It makes sense for me, if you play this from 20 years ago and then compare it to this in the present, then that proves malice to me. Well, and especially because it's not just some random thing he's talking about. He's talking about this as like

propaganda strategies of the globalists. So it's kind of a major part of what he's complaining about in the world. It's not just something you would randomly forget. Yeah. Let's say, yeah, the, the extreme irony of the hashtag Alex Jones was right is that he was right about how awful he would become. If he's right about anything, that's all he's got because he's already back down on the weed legalization and civilized for totally, totally, kind of don't have much to go. We've got nothing. So, um, Alex has another guest and to guy who I love his name, Jack blood. Okay. That can't be his real name. Jack blood. That can't be his real name. It might be. Oh boy. Blood is a name that vampire people who descended from vampire say, yeah, like, uh, like Thatcher was

somebody who built houses. Blood was Miller. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Blood. Jack blood. Jack blood. He's a another talk show host, maybe on the GCN. I'm not entirely sure. I can't remember because I think that he talks in another episode I listened to. I think he talked to another guy who he wanted to get on GCN. I can't remember if that's Jack blood or not too distracted by his name. Jack blood. Yeah. So he, uh, is, uh, kind of, uh, uh, not great. I mean, he's just another Alex. Now, the situation with the stage capture of Ben Lawton, uh, two years ago, I said my sources and this is White House folks, uh, that he's died of kidney failure, handed over to the family, uh, to, uh, to Bush, been a rolling out before the election. I didn't know that was true. Now,

associated press, military sure of catching Ben Lawton this year, uh, a lot of bragging. My, when Albright saying she thinks they already having, uh, what do you see happening? Well, I don't know. First of all, who cares if it's, if it's, uh, sit on Hussein or not. Okay. I personally don't think it is. I personally believe the stories that the Kurds had him and turned him over and they went to go find him in that stage public event. And yes, I believe the story is coming out right now that, uh, they are going to get Ben Lawton or someone who looks like him. I mean, this is again, I always feel so strongly that we should be on the right debate and whether they catch Ben Lawton or not, isn't going to make any difference whether, right,

but, but this is going to be a major stage event. So, uh, I got really thrown by him talking about Saddam after that. Like I saw it in your face too. And thankfully he did like weave it back around cause it was, it seemed like a non sequitur or he thought Alex was talking about Saddam, right? But, uh, it was just a weird sentence. Right. Um, yeah. So Saddam probably, uh, not him and staged and Ben Lawton, uh, probably going to be staged soon based on stuff that Steve has told him. And the associated press stuff and all that is like, uh, expressions of optimism. Right. Right. Right. We're going to get him this time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I find historically speaking that when people want to have quote, the right debate, they are more talking about how

they want to talk about what they want to talk about and everybody else should stop talking about other stuff. It's true. Yeah. It's true. So I guess the right debate here is how all of this stuff is staged. Exactly. Like what? Okay. I'm not sure, not sure if that's super productive, but here we are. All right. So, um, you know, Chuck, they sell so up in the Alex Jones's right pile obsession with Ben Lawton being produced before the 2004 election, which definitely happened. Definitely happened. So, uh, we have one last clip from the 30th cause it's kind of not a whole lot going on, but, uh, Jack blood, uh, gets into a story about a fellow radio host. Okay. That he knows who just got fired and the reasons for it. Okay. And that led me down a path

of, uh, maybe one of the days that you were gone. I mean, if you want to talk about the absolutely sick and twisted, uh, just for a quick second, I got a guy on my show. This is a breaking story. He's the talk show host out of, uh, um, Omaha, Nebraska. Marty Stacy was just fired because he started talking again about this Franklin coverup. And I know you've done some work on that as well. Some good work. And here the guy was fired. He interviewed Maureen gosh, who was the mother of Johnny gosh. Uh, this was one of the boys that was kidnapped and abused by this Franklin coverup group. Uh, he testified in a civil suit, which was one in Nebraska after this interview, which was just a couple of weeks ago. Uh, Stacy was fired. Um, they give him some

lame excuse. I've been there for five years on a KCR. Oh, excuse me, Omaha. I would like to hear that later. Maureen gosh, Johnny gosh, his mother goes into her house and finds a adult doll. Okay. Mutilated and hanging as a warning inside her house. And he'll Marty will be on my show Monday as well. Well, I want to get Marty Stacy on. We need to help people like this that are brave enough to try to take this to broadcast. He's on a Christian station. I mean, the people in Nebraska were convicted. We've had this, the head of the Republican party from the state on, uh, who brought all this out. I mean, this isn't even debatable. Oh, it was on the front page of the New York Times, Reagan, the homosexual sex rings, all this kind of thing. So I don't know. But here he is talking

about it and he obviously stepped on someone's toes and now he's paying for it. And I hope to support him. It's, it's, it's out of control. So I, um, I don't know why Marty Stacy was fired. I'm sorry that I cannot bring you that information. I really was hoping for it. It may be too obscure of a figure to have left much of a trail on the internet. So the way that Jack is telling this story, you would think that it's been proven that this kid, Johnny gotch was kidnapped by this trafficking ring at the center of the Franklin coverup. It must be the case that there was some evidence or that he came home and, you know, they were able to point, he was able to point out the people who did it, but none of that happened. Oh, in the real world, Johnny gotch was a child who

disappeared most likely kidnapped on September 5th, 1982, while he was out doing his paper route. He lived in Des Moines, Iowa, and he's never been found by most accounts. He's presumed dead. Do you know any of the terms that were being thrown around like the Franklin coverup? None. Okay. No clue. Okay. Yeah. Well, you're in for an interesting ride. Okay. So this is a messy situation because a lot of the information that's being bounced around by people like Alex and Jack Blood, it comes from Johnny's mother, Nori, and from interpretations made by Satanic Panic Enthusiast and your good friend, Ted Gunderson. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. He's in the mix again. There we go. Not enough people, right? Not enough people. Yeah. It's very difficult to

parse fact from fiction. And many of the narrators in this story seem kind of unreliable. Take, for example, the story that Jack is telling about Noreen coming home to a mutilated doll, which was meant to be a warning. This apparently was after she had done an interview with a completely obscure Christian radio host, Marty Stacey on KCRO in Omaha. That seems like an overreaction from a kidnapper, particularly given that it was over 20 years since Johnny had gone missing. But if you have to understand this in context, Noreen has told some pretty hard to believe stories since her son went missing. In 1999, she claimed that two years prior, her son, now 27 years old, visited her randomly one night at 2 30 a.m. He was accompanied by another man who was completely

unidentified, but who apparently was in some kind of a supervisory role over Johnny. They talked for about an hour and a half during which time he told her that he was taken by a pedophile organization, but that he had gotten too old. The details on this are very hazy and no one has been able to find any evidence that would establish that this meeting ever happened. And based on everything about how people work seems unlikely that it did. It's very, it's very dream logicky. But the idea here was that Johnny was alive, but couldn't come out of hiding because it wasn't safe or something. The conspiracy would kill him. But still, there was this guy who apparently was his handler or something who came along to visit his mom. They just, I don't know. Yeah,

yeah, that's tough. That one's tough. In 2006, Noreen claimed that she had found some child exploitation photos on her door, which she determined were of her son. Later, it came out that some of the people in the photos had been identified and they were from a case in Florida in 1978 prior to Johnny's disappearance. There's no evidence that anyone in the pictures is Johnny, but there's one picture, there's one person in one of the pictures who wasn't identified, who they can't prove is not him, but they also can't prove is him. Wait, so somebody did leave child exploitation material on her, on her doorstep? It appears so. Yeah. And no one really knows how those pictures got on her porch. I would say that it seems more likely that it was part of a sick

prank. Maybe, you know, like, what are the odds that it was the original kidnappers showing up to her house 20 plus years later? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't that makes no sense from the mind of a criminal. No, that's implausible to, uh, to a point of impossibility, but, but God, who would fucking do that? I don't know. Fucked up. Yeah. That's fucking fucked up. Yeah. No matter what, there's a level of like, unacceptable. Yeah. Yeah. Unfathomability. So in 1999, Noreen testified in a civil suit that was brought by a man named Paul Bonacci against Larry King, who was the former manager of the Franklin credit union. Okay. Not Larry King. No, not, uh, not, uh, not the ACE interviewer. Right. Right. Right. Right. So there was

essentially the Franklin coverup has to do with, uh, allegations that this guy, Larry King, who was running the Franklin credit union was, uh, going to Boys Town in Nebraska, which was a, like at youth risk, uh, at risk youth, excuse me. Right. And there was a prostitution ring of minors that was going through that. Sure. There were like, uh, all kinds of elites that were involved. Right. Right. Right. And he would take, uh, kids from Boys Town and take them across the country. Sure. To be exploited by rich and powerful people. And this is satanic panic shit. More or less. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, there's, yeah, people give it more credibility than, uh, a lot of the other satanic panic stuff, but from everything I can tell, most of these allegations, uh, are, they

cannot be, they, some of them can be proven to not be true. Right. Right. Right. But others like, uh, George HW Bush has 7,000 people underneath a hole. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how you can prove right. Some stuff isn't true. Right. Right. That brand of thing. Right. Gotcha. So this guy, Benachi, uh, he in 1999 was suing Larry King, uh, and Noreen was called in to give testimony. So Benachi claimed, uh, the king had abused him and that he was forced to take part in Gotch's kidnapping, which is how this all ends up being connected to the Franklin situation. Wow. Okay. Multiple family members have told authorities that Benachi was at home at the time of Gotch's disappearance. So his claims on that front weren't really taken all that seriously. Right. So this

is the case that Jack blood is referring to, and it wasn't a successful civil suit, except on a technicality. Larry King was the central figure of these allegations in the Franklin case. And that was who Benachi ended up suing because the other people that he sued were removed from the suit. Right. King was already in jail for embezzlement convictions. And as I understand it, he just didn't respond to the suit. So Benachi was awarded summary judgment. Right. The fact of that case were not determined in court, which is what Jack blood is trying to suggest. And Alex saying people who are convicted. Yes, Larry King was convicted, but of embezzlement. Right. So like the actual, uh, allegations of like this ritualistic child abuse ring, that was not something that they were

convicted. Right. Right. Right. I don't want to spend too far afield into the Franklin situation all because I thought we talked about it before, but I guess not. So we'll talk about it another time that Alex brings it up in more detail. So I'll make this as concise as possible. There were four people who initially made allegations that there was a child trafficking ring run out of Boys Town in Omaha with Larry King at the center. Super rich and prominent figures were involved in the ring. And there were connections with elites in other parts of the country. When the case was brought before a grand jury, two of the accusers recanted their claims. Benachi was one who didn't along with Alicia Owen. The grand jury ended up claiming that the case was a quote carefully

crafted hoax and did not indict any of the accused, but they did indict Benachi and Owen for perjury. Owen ended up serving four and a half years in jail on the charge. Months later, a federal grand jury heard the case and arrived at the same conclusion that the accusations were unfounded and they also indicted Owen. The conspiracy around this has continued largely because there was another investigator working on the case named Gary Caradone. Sorry, Gary Caradory. Caradory had taken a trip to Chicago in July 1990 around the time that these grand juries were making their determinations. On his return trip, his small self-piloted plane crashed and he died along with his eight-year-old son who was also aboard. Naturally, this was the work of the globalist

who blew up his plane as part of an elaborate coverup, according to the conspiracy. The story became that he called his boss before heading back, telling him that he had found the smoking gun and this evidence was then destroyed in the crash. Every time. Every time. I can find no evidence that I find credible that this call was made, but it proves and provides conspiracy theorists with the perfect if only story, which is a feature of so many of the narratives we end up seeing on Infowars. The crash is sad, but William Bruce, the investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board, told the Lincoln Star that he'd seen crashes like that in the past and it appeared that the wings had become separated from the plane. This usually happens in cases where

pilots lose control of the plane, they go into a dive and then their speeds go past what the plane constructurally handled. There's also speculation that he had hit some bad weather and lost control, which is a plausible scenario. Anyway, the point here is that I can't really prove nothing happened in Omaha, but the allegations that have been made and the things that are claimed to have been covered up just are not proven at all. Right. One of the people making the allegations who ended up indicted for perjury claimed that he was involved in kidnapping Johnny Gotch, which I think is tough to see as credible. Gotch's disappearance was a national story and his picture was famously one of the first that was ever put on a milk carton. He was one of the first milk carton

kids. Gotcha. Gotcha. It stands to reason that Banachi might want to connect his own civil suit to that giant media rich story for his own reasons. Right. Whatever the case, Banachi claimed he kidnapped Gotch and then Gotch's mother testified in his civil case about how Johnny had shown up in the middle of the night for a random visit, which no one can verify. Right. It seems almost impossible to believe. Right. These are things that I'm dubious of, but for someone like Jack Blood, all of this is true and proven. It's all concrete. This is all established fact for him because he wants it to be. This narrative structure preserves the organized evil nature of his imaginary enemy team, which is critical to him retaining his own heroic image that he can project

onto the audience. Yeah. Further, they're complaining about this Marty Stacey guy getting fired from his radio job. But in reality, there's a decent chance that his broadcast may have been defamatory. If he was covering the subject irresponsibly, odds are that he might have named some names and the station probably didn't want to deal with that kind of possible trouble. That's something that would have happened to Alex years ago if he had a boss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I can see that as being a plausible reason why Marty Stacey got fired if it weren't for any other possible insubordination with with these with these weirdos. Yeah. But sorry. Sorry for that kind of information dump. No, that was awesome. That is a fascinating story for the things that

did happen combined with the things that didn't happen to make a confusing. I mean, God damn. Yeah, like life is weird is what I keep. When I think about that story, I'm like, everything's fucking weird. I don't know what the fuck is going on. Yeah. The Benachi fella, he had also made some allegations against like Catholic priests. Sure. And some of that I did not see. Obviously, they didn't fully investigate those things. But that I could see as being like they're actually being some abuse. Sure. Involved. And so that's there's a reason why I don't want to say nothing happened. Sure. He's just a liar or something. There's something at the core of this. But it isn't that Larry King was running a big job prostitution ring out of the Franklin

credit union. I mean, it's not unreasonable to to see that behavior somewhat as PTSD response, any number of different possible explanations for it. I mean, it could it could also have just been a malicious oaks. You know, that's also possible. It just doesn't feel like that's the case all the way. Yeah. I mean, I have I find it very elaborate to be just like a randomly crafted hoax. Yeah. And and I mean, but who knows? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, life's weird. Life is weird. Yeah. So the reason sometimes there's too many people. The reason that I wanted to like get into some of these threads and how they dispersed and all this and led to like kind of dead ends or areas where it's like, I don't know about this. Yeah. Yeah. Because I wanted to demonstrate

that for Jack blood, this is a very simple story where everything is true and all of these witnesses are entirely credible. Yeah. And that I don't feel is a good way to approach. I mean, anything. I was going to say reporting, but I'm not sure if it's reporting. Whatever this is that he's doing dissemination of information. Yeah, just I don't I think it's kind of a way to make a bad do a bad job. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, that's the case. As somebody who tells stories who writes, you know, all of those things. To me, you're just making a shittier story in order to exploit it. The interesting story is what we can't find out, you know, is the composition of all of those things and the mysteries that do exist along with the things that we can solve. That's fascinating.

Well, but here's the thing. Take that exact mentality and apply it to making up whatever you want. You know, like in that in that mystery space where where, you know, anything could be true and nothing can be disproven. Sure. You can make all kinds of sensational shit fit into that box. Right. Right. Right. But the difference there is I don't appreciate being given a an imagination prompt. I would like a story. If you are writing a story, then you have to tell me the story. You cannot give me a prompt for me to fill in the fucking blanks. I think he would tell you a story. Give him enough time. All right, fair enough. Jack blood tells the story of death. So we take the old weekend off. Okay. Back in the day. Yeah, we come back on a Monday.

And Alex has to complain about the Super Bowl. I did two radio interviews last night during the Super Bowl. And of course, there was rioting as the drunken mass of animals of Romans when insane when their patriots won. And I'm sure you enjoyed Janet Jackson with her breast hanging out on purpose to desensitize your children. Is that what you expect from these degenerates? Was that why? And that apple didn't fall too far from the tree. It fell right next to Michael Jackson, didn't it? Well, you were all busy doing that. I was fighting for this country trying to trying to defend the Republic in the final days of this nation and any freedom you ever had. And I'm not saying you're evil. Have you watched the Super Bowl? I'm just glad I did.

That grew up. Well, well, you were doing this stupid Super Bowl stuff. I was fighting for this country by doing an interview for publicity. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're not really, you're not really that interesting if you're like, ah, wrestling is fake and don't watch football. I understand you think that by going against the tide. Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, you watched the Super Bowl. Yeah, of course you did. Of course you did. You muted it while you were on the phone with whatever interview. Whatever it was. You watched the dumpster. And you probably watched wrestling too. Of course. He pulled out the Von Erick's every time. Oh, I mean, every time. He's like, I'm not really a science fiction fan or Star Wars fan. I don't really like that stuff. Let me tell you about Jean

Rottenberry. No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. I know everything. I know everything. So Alex has just decided that Janet Jackson's breast being exposed during the halftime show of the 2004 Super Bowl was intentional and it was meant to desensitize the children. First of all, I think that children were plenty desensitized in 2004. The internet was widely available and pornography was one click away from anyone who wanted to look at it. There isn't any desensitization value that's gonna come from this. Like the swimsuit issue in Lowrider were sold at every grocery store in the country. And really, how much of a difference is it between a tiny bikini and technically seeing a nipple? So really that much difference in terms of desensitization? Yes! If anything, the response to

that halftime show probably had a reverse effect to desensitization where children were taught that the nipple is a horribly shameful thing to see in public or exposed. I wouldn't be too surprised if there was far more of an impact in that direction of like stigmatization. Yeah. Also, not for nothing. Janet Jackson has been pretty open about this and what she went through is really, really shitty. Yeah. Her outer layer was supposed to be ripped off to reveal lingerie underneath, but it didn't go as planned. And for that, she was demonized while Justin Timberlake, who did the ripping, more or less got a free pass. Yep. Her career took a massive hit with stations and even MTV not wanting to play her music, which didn't happen for Timberlake.

Less importantly, the backlash to this happening involved halftime shows that were all old rockers and boring shows like Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, and Tom Petty was okay, and then Bruce Springsteen. Sure. It wouldn't be until 2011 that a modern act would be featured in the halftime show. And that was the Black Eyed Peas who were relatively safe. Justin Timberlake came back to perform in 2018. You know what I, you know what I appreciate about being me sometimes is like, I remember when that happened going, everybody should calm the fuck down. What is happening right now? Right. And you know, 20 years later, I can reflect upon that and be like, yeah, everybody should have fucking calmed down. What the shit? Yeah. What the shit happened?

Yeah, people lost their minds. I love being consistent. It's the best. Yeah. It is the best. I don't have to look back and be like, Oh, I shouldn't have said no 100% right. I don't even remember what my reaction was at the time. I think I mean, I was just smoking too much weed at the time. I think the right amount of weed in 2004, I think I might have been just high all the time sitting in a kiddie pool in my friend's backyard. Why was everybody, I mean, and that's not, that's what is even worse about it. You know, you say porn is a click away. Back then you didn't have to click a popup would show up and there would be a tit in your face. Yeah, there might be. You're, you're running that risk. You would go to your grandparents house and they would have a toolbar

with Ask Jeeves, Yahoo, and every time they did anything, porn would just show up and they'd be like, this is weird. Yeah. Yeah. So back to the halftime shows. Sure. I don't really remember the Janet Jackson one happening. Yeah. Like I don't know if I watched that Super Bowl or not. I vaguely remember like maybe that day or the next day, like people like whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what I do remember is when Bruce Springsteen did the Super Bowl halftime show, he did a little slide across the stage on his knees. No. And he, his nuts hit the camera. Granted, it wasn't like a Lenny Kravitz thing where his dick popped out. Yeah. But he nut shot at the entire world. Man, he did a slide and crotch hit the camera. That,

that to me was far more aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody wants a pair of balls in their face. It's never been a thing. No. I wonder if Alex was really pissed off about Lenny Kravitz's dick flopping out of his pants. No, I mean, hey, we've got to fight that episode. Listen, we all, we all saw that and we were like, nobody's pissed off of it. Lenny Kravitz is like, fine, it's time, finally time to show the world what it is that I have received from God. As I recall, his face in the moment was pretty funny though. Like that. Whoops. Anyway, hilarious. So a bit of this episode is going to center around the Oklahoma City bombing because I guess Alex is interested in that this day. And so here's what he's got.

A possible low KC bombing video shows two explosions. The Fairfax County, Virginia home of John Cumberston, once a member of former U.S. Representative James Travacant scandal plagued the congressional office, was raided Friday afternoon by Oklahoma City police detectives searching for evidence related to the 95 Oklahoma City bombing. Oh, wait a minute, searching for evidence. That would mean you didn't already have it. And they go on to admit that Congress has a copy of this and that the government declared national security on it won't release it. That's the news story. Why are you writing a congressman's AIDS house? Because they may have this. So Alex is just making up all the details

that he's not directly reading from an article. They don't say that Congress has a copy of the video in question and that they declared it national security secrets or whatever. Here's what's going on. At this point, 2004, Terry Nichols is about to stand trial for his role in helping Timothy McVeigh pull off the Oklahoma City bombing. His defense attorneys are trying like crazy to cast blame anywhere they can in order to plant seeds of reasonable doubt to get him off the hook. It became a whole mess where they were trying to call over a hundred witnesses seeking to bring up insinuations about, quote, a group of bank robbers, Iranians, residents of the white supremacist community, Elohim City, convicted murderer Chevy Kehoe and others.

In that context, a lawyer named Tom Mills Jr. claimed that back in 1998, a congressional aide named John Culbertson had shown him pictures of the explosion, quote, the attorney said the aide told him the photos came from a federal agent who is part of a sting operation that was supposed to stop the bombing but failed. John Culbertson is testified under oath that he has no such evidence and I have a tough time getting a handle on what he's actually all about. In a local news article, he's credited as a former congressional aide and an employee of the Arkansas Chronicle. I found a speech in the congressional record that Jim Traffacant gave that discussed a review of the Murrah building security prior to the bombing that was conducted by Culbertson.

So he was, you know, he's Traffacant's aide. Sure. He's doing a review of their security. Sure. In an article in The New American, the publication of the John Birch Society, they credit him as a, quote, construction and demolition analyst. I don't know if that's a credit he has. I have no idea what his real credentials are, but this also appears to be a case where it's more people like they're making stuff up about him and embellishing him than him making it up himself. Right. What I can tell. Gotcha. So Mills, that lawyer, told the, the Nichols defense that he'd seen these photos and on the basis of his affidavit, Culbertson's home was searched and his computers were seized. Now, here's where things get sticky. Culbertson was an employee of

the Arkansas Chronicle, which is barely a real thing, but it does technically exist and it maybe makes him a journalist. Okay. He was their Washington bureau chief, although at that time he also might've been their only employee. Yeah. From 1996 to 2000, the publication was run by a man named Jim Bolt, who returned after Culbertson's house was searched as they were looking to transition the publication to being an online only format. At that time, he and Culbertson made up the entire staff of the Chronicle. Naturally, because they were in journalism, Bolt brought a suit against the search. He tried to sue. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. This is from the Dallas morning news. Quote, under questioning by a state prosecutor, Mr. Bolt acknowledged that he

and Mr. Culbertson were the publication's only employees and he gave conflicting answers as to whether he was Mr. Culbertson's boss or vice versa. Yeah. They were running a weird operation here. All right. Maybe put the call sheet in the right order. Yeah. So as to the matter of this alleged photograph, quote, in winding an often contentious testimony, Mr. Bolt said Mr. Culbertson had described to him an image he'd seen of the Murrah building exploding, but that neither he nor Mr. Culbertson had the image that it might have been faked and that Mr. Culbertson said he had never shown it to Mr. Mills. And here's where things got out of hand. I am blown away by this story continuing. Yes. What is happening? It gets so much better. Okay. So the judge in the case

was sure to tell Bolt that if he has this alleged photograph, and then he needed to turn it over since it was evidence of a serious crime. Right. Then the court went on break and bolt faked chest pains so he could go to the hospital. All right. Now we're talking. I like a good old fashioned sitcom. Oh, no, my heart's going. The judge told him to return the next day so he could finish testifying, which Bolt did not do. Of course. He was found in contempt and they put out an arrest warrant, but he dodged it by going back to Arkansas and hiding out. Love it. Yeah. He hit out and just didn't show up. Okay. Culbertson showed up the next day and testified that they were just generic images of an explosion, but there was no real way to tell if it was even the Murrah

building or any context surrounding it. Sure. Sure. Sure. So at this point, the judge said that the hearing was a quote, waste of time. He went on to say, quote, there was absolutely unequivocally no evidence whatsoever of photographs of the Murrah building blowing up. One of nickel's lawyers, Brian Hermansen, who wanted this evidence to be taken seriously because it helped cast doubt on his client's guilt, even said, quote, when all was said and done, we didn't believe the guy after we questioned him after he faked a heart attack, but just seemed a little contrived. I mean, the moment you fake a heart attack, you, you either win or lose. You know, it feels like if he got back to Arkansas with no negative consequences for this, I mean,

other than he can't go, he's got an outstanding arrest warrant in a different state. I think he crushed it. I'm not sure. I don't, I did not follow the trail of whether Jim Bolt went after this. Sure. But yeah, he may have got off, might have got arrested at some point. I'm not sure. I kind of like the guy. It's that, it's that American con man. I do. I do like a good fake, fake chest pains run away. I love it. So now almost certainly the Arkansas Chronicle is not a legitimate publication and it's a little iffy about whether or not they merit the standard protections for journalists, but even leaving that aside, Culbertson and the Chronicle won their case on the grounds that the search warrant did not include probable cause for the search and he

was awarded $60,000. Okay. Anyway, as is so often the case, there's a really fascinating story buried here that Alex completely misses and has no idea about because he's not interested in reality. His narrative demands that these pictures not just be pictures, they're videos and that they're real. So they're real to him. Not only that, the government has copies of the videos and they seized them from Culbertson and declared national security, blah, blah, blah. It's all bullshit in service of the conspiracy narrative as opposed to celebrating the kooky ass shit that happens in real life, like both faking a heart attack in order to leave the court. I want, I want to, I, I, every story should include a, somebody faking a heart attack. If, if I, right

now I want to hear every time that somebody in real life is faked a heart attack. I want to know every single story. What if we were down in Texas for Alex's trial and he faked a heart attack? Yeah. I would, that's the only story I would tell. I would only tell that story. I would never exaggerate. I would never embellish. You could hear that same exact story for me for 50 years. I would give him more of a tip of the hat. Yeah. Just to get out of. I love, I don't know why, but it is the funniest possible thing that you can do in real life is a cartoon gag where you fake a heart attack. That's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. So Alex has a guest on to talk about the Oklahoma city stuff. Sure. And it was a fella by the name of JD cash. A good name. We got blood,

bolt and cash. Yeah. That is a f***ing band right there. Yeah. Put Crosby in there stills or Nash or Yon any of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got a super group. Not Nash too close to cash. Good point. Yep. So he interviews this guy and I, he's an interesting cat. I'm not sure what to do with this guy. Okay. I don't know. All right. Now I'm listening. Now I'm listening. Feds can end all this speculation instantly by releasing that video. If they have it. If they have it. This particular, these, these photographs and videos surveillance film supposedly emanates the camera is pointing from the YMCA. What's interesting is I have today spoken with a person who I've known for years who said I saw those still pictures. So Mr. Colbertson has indeed shown some still pictures that are

very interesting to different people. Now these are video stills or still pictures? These are video stills. That's my understanding. But you'd obviously have to still video to watch the explosion take place. That's correct. There has to be a video someplace for them to have made these stills. And supposedly that the first picture is of a pristine building, no truck. Then the next picture, there is a truck. And there is a glow at the bottom. I guess it's supposedly going off. And then the next picture is carnage. Now that's how that was described to me. Now the Alex, you and I both know that with digital, the digital stuff, the software and these computers now, anything is possible. People can create this stuff. And so I always have to, you know,

warn people that this the I have not seen these pictures. So I don't know that this these aren't phony. I don't know that. So Alex is interviewing a guy who's presenting himself as a big expert on this story. And even according to him, the best he can do is say that he's heard second hand from people that they've seen pictures from Colbertson. But there's no way to know if what they saw was even real. Right. This is not an important piece of evidence in any sense. But it's fairly telling that this cash fellow is on the case, but doesn't seem to know much about the surrounding context of the story like Jim Bolt and his heart attack. But I do appreciate his restraint because it's something you rarely see in these people on and for wars. True. True. I mean, at the same time,

though, if you're if you're you can just not talk about evidence, this flimsy, you can just be like, nope, this one, there's nothing. I'm saying nothing. But if you do, though, if you die, if Alex asks, if Alex asks, sure. But I mean, if you I like it whenever you diagram sentences where it's like what happened, you know, and then you can scratch out parts of the sentence to find out what really somebody was saying. And he was saying, we've got nothing. Yeah. Yeah. JD Cash himself, I think is an interesting figure. He's a bit of a self styled journalist who only got into the career after the Oklahoma City bombing. He was an Oklahoma man. And I guess he just took a serious interest in the topic and started digging into things. There are definite things

that he did some decent reporting on. For instance, he was the person who spoke to Carol Howe, a federal informant who had lived at Elohim City and claimed that she had heard a conversation about mom plots between Dennis Mahon and Andreas Strasmeyer. Howe was a white supremacist who was at Elohim City and dated Mahon. The two had a falling out in 1994 at which point she was recruited by the ATF. She definitely spoke with the FBI after the bombing, but she's claimed that to Cash that she spoke to her contacts at the ATF and told them about the bomb plotting conversation she overheard about five months prior to the bombing. It's unclear if this is accurate. And even if it is, it's unclear how specific the information she relayed would have been. But

this is a story that Cash was at the center of bringing to light. He was able to do this because he was embedded at the white supremacist and Nazi headquarters. It doesn't appear that he necessarily shares their worldview, but some other journalists have definitely raised questions about the ethics of how he went about courting sources. Apparently his buddying up with extremists went so far as to publish articles in extremist publications like Jubilee and Media Bypass, as well as speaking at an extremist conference called Jubilation, where he followed Aryan nation's ambassador at large Louis Beam on the podium. Yeah, Louis spoke first and then him. Wow. That's, I mean, yeah, that's fucked. It's very close contact and friendliness with

white supremacists. It is, it is like that is the level of infiltration you would need in a movie, but that doesn't make sense in this circumstance. It's hard. It's hard. I mean, I'm sure it's difficult to find your way into a white nationalist extremist cell. Yeah, especially if they have sort of suspicions that you're a journalist embedding yourself totally pretty, pretty worried about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I do feel like maybe giving a, an Aryan speech might not be necessary. I think you could get away with not giving a Nazi speech. It doesn't seem required. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was very close with these white supremacist types that he covered, and he was also very friendly with the McVay defense attorneys, which will definitely make

people a little bit concerned about bias. Yeah. That comes into play as it relates to what was probably his largest moment in the spotlight. In 1997, a reporter for the Dallas Morning News dropped a bombshell story that he'd obtained a defense document which contained Timothy McVay making an explicit confession to one of his lawyers. Everyone was a bit taken aback by this, and McVay's defense team was understandably a little bit light on details when asked for a response. Sure. Someone who was quick to go on the attack about this was JD Cash. According to Cash, this was a fake confession that the defense team had put together to use as a prop in order to convince someone else that there was no danger in them coming in for an interview because McVay

had already confessed to doing it all himself. It's widely believed that this other person is Louis B. But there's no way I've found any solid confirmation of that, but that's what most people believe due to his contacts. Right. Right. What have you. Okay. Wow. Yeah. As implausible as all this sounds, it does appear that this story is true. Another member of McVay's defense team, an investigator named Richard Rayna, had shown the dummy confession to Cash a year prior, and they had a big laugh about it, according to their story. So when Cash saw reporting about this confession, he recognized some of the language from it and came out saying it was a hoax. After he did, McVay's lead attorney, Stephen Jones, began to get a bit more specific with his

responses and took that line about the supposed confession that it was a dummy confession meant to lure in another witness. Weird. So that's true. It was a dummy confession. That's what it appeared to be. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I mean, like if not, like his lawyers probably should be in trouble. Yeah. What the, what the fuck? What is everybody's idea of how to do stuff? I'm blown away by this. Pretty weird. The number of dumb things that people have chosen to do in this story is mind boggling. It's pretty strange. I mean, if you had, if you were a defense team and you had, you're defending Timothy McVay, and he had made an explicit confession, it doesn't seem like something that you would put on paper. And it also doesn't seem like something that you would continue

defending him after because it would put you in a situation where you would have to lie. Yeah, legally, you would have to, I guess, reveal that maybe. Yeah. I don't know. So it almost kind of makes sense that it would be a fake confession. Sure. I don't know. It's, it's all so strange. Why would it be? Yeah. Why would you write it down if it was? If it was real, why would you write it down? Right, right, right. That's, yeah. That's hard to get around. If it's fake, you, of course, you'd write it down because that makes perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's also an insane thing to think would work. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. So Cash is a guy who has some inside information, but is also a bit sketchy and I'm not sure it's fully

trustworthy. Right. On the one hand, from everything I can tell, he definitely believes that McVeigh was involved in the bombing and has even said that he's spoken to sources that place McVeigh at the scene. But on the other hand, he's still a bit of a conspiracy theorist and as much as he alleges, a gigantic conspiracy was behind the bombing with wide ranging players that he definitely doesn't establish. Right. And he can't prove. He's someone I was teetering on the edge about. I'm sure about where to categorize him, but then I realized I'm only talking about him because he's having a friendly interview with Alex Jones. Yeah. And I kind of tip the scales. That doesn't really sound good on your resume, but he does provide some pushback to Alex on

these things that Alex wishes he could just present as unquestioned with Jack Blood. He's certainly able to. But now you got JD Cash in here and he's worried about his own reputation. Right. And not like just going to play along with, you know, whatever bullshit Alex. Sure. Sure. Sure. And that's kind of different. Wild. That's wild. That's a whole crazy story. Yeah. Man. I mean, here's to a certain, I mean, here's what I feel like would happen if I were in this situation. As who? As cash. Okay. I find it very reasonable to have tipped over into a level of conspiracy theory that you're, you're not really capable of backing up simply because the number of absurd events that have actually happened to you are, would be more likely to

make you think, well, conspiracies are possible. Yeah. Listen to the shit that happened to me. You know, the world's crazy. Exactly. So I mean, it would be, it would be rational if you were a certain type of person to tip over. I mean, it wouldn't be rational, but you could understand why it happened. Right. Right. Yeah. So that. And also, I think even like going on Alex's show makes sense because like he's in a certain category where most places probably aren't super hospitable. Right. Right. Right. And Alex is somebody where you can say whatever about these kinds of topics. So I can kind of understand that even if he doesn't fully align with Alex, but I don't know. In 2004, it's more reasonable to think that he didn't know the full

context of who he was talking to. We may never know though. He's passed away. So we can't talk to him. Oh man, that would be, that would be, did he have a note on his shirt? Carl, Carl Terry Nichols out there. Yeah. So Alex believes that people planted explosives in the building to advance. Right. Like his building seven conspiracy. Right. Right. Right. Cash has never found evidence of that. The thing is, I don't, I have never found the slightest bit of evidence, the slightest that anybody was in there that not doing all this stuff. Why did, why did, why did Jane Graham, the, the lady at HUD say that she saw these, these, these white men with gray sticks of butter? Well, you know, I've interviewed Ms. Graham on more than one occasion

and I still, you know, I can't use her any of her anything because the story has evolved. The story has not been as consistent as what we would have to have for our newspaper. Wow. That's devastating for Alex's argument. Yeah, that was, that was solid. Yeah. Solid shit right there. Here's a guy who covers the OKC bombing compulsively, who believes in a conspiracy style coverup regarding who was involved in it, who knows all about the subject Alex covers and about all the people Alex references. And he doesn't buy the game Alex is playing and has reason not to. He's heard Jane Graham's story and he's found her not to be a credible witness because her version of events has changed over time. That is one of the most elementary reasons

that you would deem someone a bad source. And Alex can't really dispute what the guy's saying. Cash is an expert. He's not necessarily a debunker and he's clearly shown that he's not just going to go along with whatever Alex wants. So Alex can expect pushback from pushback. Yeah, you know, I mean, that's, that's, it's almost like Alex is missing a huge opportunity to update to a conspiracy 2.0 on the OKC bombing. You know, like here's somebody who's pushing back with actual information, right? Not necessarily, but it would be too hard. It would be too hard. Yeah, that's what it looks like. Easy. He likes it easy. You know, like this is an opportunity to level up and Alex is given, it's, it is that two paths in life kind of choice of like, I could go, I could

go here, I could go here. It was the laziest. And you know what? Something that I think is interesting and maybe not immediately apparent is that when JD cash says that he has talked to her, her story's changed. It's not reliable enough for me to, I can't use her for anything. Right. Because I don't know what can be true and what cannot. Right. That is against his own interests. Yeah. His interest would be served by believing that there were people who put these gray sticks of butter and explosives in there and he's rejecting taking that easy path. And I think that that says something. Yeah. Like I don't, I don't necessarily agree with him about everything obviously, but the instinct to not just like take a bunt or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Is not something you see a lot on info wars. No, no. The idea of just because I want something to be true does not necessarily make it true is verboten. Yeah. No. And there's multiple instances of this happening throughout the show. They take some calls and here is cash doing this again. Let's go to these calls of James and Colorado. You're on the air. Go ahead. First time listener and listening to, I mean, first time caller and listening to you since am 1360. Take your show. Go ahead. Like to thank my friend Jeremy in 2001 who told me a well documented talk show host named Alex Jones who was taken off KRKS for supposedly suspicious reasons. Thank you, Mr. Jones for airing all of more of your callers than any other talk show I've ever

heard. Thank you. But what else is on your mind? First of all, common sense does the huge bomb would blow chunks of debris for blocks in every direction still not take down that building unless it was shape charges in the beans and columns. Here's what we have found. This is from, you know, what we do know. There is one pretty good chunk of that building that appears to be in the middle of the street in front of the work, you know, where the office was, building was. There is a, there was a property safe, heavy steel safe that was actually blown into the parking lot of the journal record building across the street. There were not

big chunks of the buildings blown all over downtown. JD, JD, I have stills of the helicopter video and there's chunks of the building across the street on top of the other building. There are pieces of the rider truck and those were introduced into evidence with detailed photographs of the truck. That's, you know, the way that is. I mean, Alex, this is years and years and years and years of research. What about the seismographs? Alex wants to move on, man. Yeah, no kidding. So this caller is trying to make Alex's point, which is that there had to been other bombs in the building shape charges, which made the explosion go outward shooting the building all over other buildings downtown. You may notice that this caller didn't claim that

and Alex is making his claims in response to something cash said. A little bit earlier in the episode, Alex made this claim to cash himself. Right. So he's responding cash is responding to that. Right. There's a little bit of a bounce back and forth. Right. Right. Right. Right. An interesting point about cash seems to be that he believes that there were multiple explosions that day, but he doesn't believe that there were bombs planted in the building. From what I can tell his theory is that there were bombs or other explosives that were being stored at the ATF office in the Murrah building and the explosion caused them to detonate and secondary explosion, but that there's been a coverup of that. Okay. In terms of logical leaps,

this is way more reasonable as a place to be because you can imagine that if there is an ATF office there, which there is, they may keep items that were confiscated from searches of arrests there and one such item might be a bomb. Yeah. And you could believe that there could be a legitimate reason why they might not want to be upfront about that. For one, it could paint a picture that ATF offices are inherently dangerous, which could hurt with them leasing property. Or another direction could be that they wouldn't want to reveal exactly what they'd confiscated because it could give away part of an ongoing investigation unrelated to McVeigh. I'm not saying that this is the case, but there's a little more of a grounded conspiracy there than the type that

Alex tends to engage. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the simplest reason would just be like, we don't want to make everybody think that every ATF office has bombs in it. Right. Because then people might want to go bomb those. Right. Or you wouldn't want to have your office next to the ATF office. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, even just on a crass kind of level, you could be like, well, they just didn't want anyone thinking that they were partially responsible for the destruction or whatever. Right. Right. Right. But like, so these kinds of conspiracies seem to have more of a foot in the real world than Alex's does. Yeah. It does. Here's what, here's the vibe I'm getting is somebody who is an excellent Bigfoot researcher. You know, and I'm talking about

somebody who believes in Bigfoot is real, like 100% believes in Bigfoot in Bigfoot, but is looking at all of the evidence that people have gathered and is like, this is not conclusive because here's why, here's why, here's why, here's why, all of that kind of thing. Here's what we can say. Exactly. Here's, and Alex and his callers keep pushing far past that point. Right. And, you know, I mean, it's faint praise slightly, but it is appreciated that he will at least set those lines and be like, I'm not going to essentially be a party of, you know, saying these things that are delegitimizing to my expertise and years and years of research. Yeah. I mean, yeah, but of, you know, I agree with you. And it's not super unreasonable to

believe that there's some sort of great ape in an absurdly large forest, you know, like, it's not crazy to think that there might be something there on that premise, the possibility of it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I can, I have a sort of, if you take on him, I'm exactly there with you, but also I appreciate this. Not enough is spoken about what records were kept important records into whom in that particular building. Do you have any comments on that one? Oh yeah, there's always, there's always these stories about these records, but you know, would somebody please tell us how we're supposed to be able to pin this down because you just can't write every rumor that comes down the pie. We know Bill Clinton had the building destroyed and all that stuff.

Can't just print every rumor. You sound like a moron shot and chase it. You can't just print every rumor. Well, Bill Clinton did. Okay. All right. Yeah. I admittedly have not read enough of JD Cash's work to know like fully how much he lives by whatever the things he's saying. Sure. Sure. Um, but I do appreciate him, uh, saying like, Hey, uh, he's basically calling Alex a moron. He's calling Alex a moron to his face, but he might not think that's what he's doing. Right. Right. Basically, Alex publishes every fucking rumor. Yes. And if we were, if we were reading about this story or perhaps listening to it occur, we would all know the audience knows exactly who is being called a moron here. Wow. I think Alex's audience would think JD is a moron.

That's fair. Yeah. So another person with an abbreviation. Sure. PJW shows up. We got Paul, Joseph Watson, and since he's British, it's time to lie more about David Kelly, the weapons inspector who passed away. Kelly, David Kelly, the former UM weapons inspector was murdered and did not commit suicide. Now, and now a bunch of government people are saying he was obviously murdered. He talked to a lady who we worked with an American as a weapon inspector told her, they're going to kill me soon and put me in the woods. So Alex is just blurring all kinds of details about the David Kelly case because as we've seen unfolding, he's in the process of turning it from a real event into a piece of his Patriot conspiracy lore, much the same way that, you know, he's

lying about the Ann Coulter interview to make it a myth. He's doing the same thing as it relates to the David Kelly story. Yeah. He has his established narrative in place, which is that Kelly was murdered. And so every little detail that he covers about the case needs to be bluffed and finessed. So it fits that narrative. In this case, Alex is just lying about this comment, in large part by depriving the audience of the context that that comment was made in, because it's essentially a real comment. Yeah. It wasn't said to a female American co-worker who was a fellow weapons inspector. It was said to a British diplomat named David Brusher. It wasn't said just before Kelly's death. It was about six months prior in the lead up to

the invasion of Iraq. He didn't say that some shadowy unknown group was going to kill him and put him in the woods. He was saying that if the invasion went forward, he'd quote, probably be found dead in the woods. But the reason for that comment is clear. He was worried about the Iraqi contacts he had, many of whom he feared would feel betrayed by him if the UK invaded, particularly around issues related to weapons of mass destruction. It came out in the Hutton inquiry that Kelly had made indications bordering on assurances to his contacts that the war could be avoided. And the idea that an invasion might still happen that made him rightly concerned that the danger that he could be in because of those assurances that he'd made to high level

people. Ultimately, a comment like this makes me feel even more convinced about the suicide determination because it helps illustrate the headspace and a fear and guilt that Kelly was feeling at the time. What's important to recognize here is the way that Alex's wantonly misreporting details around this comment because the actual context puts his narrative into more question, whereas his phony version makes his narrative seem more likely. Without the context of who Kelly was worried would kill him, Alex is able to pretend that this is about him worrying about retribution for supposedly blowing the whistle on WMD intelligence. By presenting this as something that was said in the immediate time just before his death, Alex is able to tie the

comment to the death far more directly than reality would allow. This is one of Alex's primary ways of lying, and it's something that he's able to pass off as just being sloppy or speaking extemporaneously without notes or a teleprompter. He can use that excuse if he's called on about one particular detail, like in this case, he could say that he misremembered who he was speaking to or something like that, but it's imperative to understand that this is a universal pattern. His sloppiness and unprofessional approach to his job actually provides cover for the misrepresentations and lies he presents as researched fact to his audience. Feature, not about, you know, it is like, like Douglas Adams described the serious cybernetics corporation of like, the superficial

flaws are so loud and annoying, they distract you from the fundamental flaws that are the larger problem. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the the code of paint is terrible to so you don't see that it doesn't work. Exactly. The car is broken. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Alex has another guest and Paul sticks around and hangs out with this other guest. And it is a border vigilante. Great. Name Chris Simcox. Armed Mexicans cross border US volunteers, journalists photograph mysterious militia. You want to go to prison planet dot com or info wars dot com link through and look at the video and photos of all these foreign troops. That's coming up with the Chris Simcox, the editor of a local newspaper and a citizen action group. Chris Simcox is not the editor of a reputable local paper,

which is why Alex phrased it like that. He's the founder of the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, a border vigilante group that violently harasses immigrants. He's another one of the pieces of shit who Alex presents to his audience as heroes. And it's worth noting that he's not a person that Alex would admit to knowing anymore. That's because Simcox is currently in prison serving an over 19 year sentence after being convicted in 2016 of molesting a five year old girl. It's probably also really terrifying to realize that prior to his shift into being a border vigilante, Simcox was an elementary school teacher in classes from kindergarten to third grade for 13 years. Two of his ex wives filed for protective custody from him, one in 2001 and another in 2010. The

first ex told the court that Simcox had threatened deadly violence and it slapped their four year old son so hard he had a mark on his face for two days. The ex-wife from 2010, who was actually Simcox's third wife, told a judge that he quote brandished a gun and threatened to shoot her, the children and any police officers who tried to protect them. As is so often the case when he looked back through Alex's catalog, the guests he has on are all complete monsters. It's bad enough that this guy's only real claim to fame at the time is that he was demonizing immigrants and harassing them while heavily armed. But when you get into who he actually is, you start to see the caliber of person Alex puts on a pedestal. It really feels like if you peel back even a

single layer on most of Alex's guests from this time period, you end up with a literal Nazi or a child abuser way more regularly than you should. These people are awful. Yep. Real shit. Yeah. Yeah, it is like the the probable cause is always the way that these people treat women. You know, it's just always that it just always comes back to that if you see this type of behavior from a man to a woman, it should be an immediate trigger investigation into everything that this dude has ever done. What color is more red than red to put it as a flag? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's so universal. It's a piece of a lot of these domestic abuse in the way that they treat women is just always the biggest red flag. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, he treats women

really terribly. But in the running, I don't I mean, immigrants are also sure. I'm real terrible. Sure. Sure. Sure. No, no, no, no, that's that's definitely this is this dude's just a monster. You know, he's just a real piece of shit in every possible sense of the word. It's pretty tough to get around how bad a dude he is. Yeah. And like, so when he was on trial, there were two accusers, one six year old and one five year old, who it was a couple years later. So they were a little older at this point. Sure. But not much older, not adults at this point yet. And he wanted to directly cross no, no, no, no, no, that's the kind of no fucking put him in put him in a cage under the ground. Yeah. Jesus fucking Christ. When I read that, I was like,

Oh, no, if he says, God, it's a fucking there was not allowed to there should be trap doors for people who say shit like that. You if you say that out loud, suddenly a trap door should open and you should just fall. Yeah, like that's that is the end of a conversation for good. Yeah. So the two of them, Alex and Simcox are just trying to incite people to hate migrants. Great. Well, why is it the military on the border engaging these foreign troops when they come across that fence? That's exactly what we want to know. I tell you, Border Patrol takes seriously almost every Border Patrol agent on the line now will not get out of their truck without carrying a long arm. And well, it's a matter of time. I mean, they were just shooting at people again

a few weeks ago, kidnapping citizens. That's the Associated Press. It's a matter of time to lay open fire on you. What are you going to do, Chris? Well, we're we are prepared. And again, we had a situation here in our county and Cochise County is going to lead the way with citizens arming themselves and controlling that border as we already have. We had a mother and a 14 year old daughter who were beaten threatened with death and carjacked as they were going to school last week. We'll talk about it when we get back and take your calls. America is under attack by foreign drug dealing troops. Oh, boy. Yeah, really, really blending a lot of stuff there. You know, like you can have undocumented immigrants and they're rolled in with drug smugglers

and this fake story that Alex has about the family being kidnapped that we talked about on a past episode. It's just all very irresponsible and only meant to make people more fearful and distrustful of, well, I mean, basically all Hispanic people. Yeah. I don't understand how it is that you can say shit like that and not behave like shit like that is true, if that makes sense. I think Simcox kind of does. Yeah, no, that's kind of what I'm saying. As far as Alex being like, though, there are foreign invaders and it is only a matter of time before they are shooting people. They're shooting at you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is not a statement that you can say and believe without extreme action immediately. It seems like it.

You know, yeah. Like you can't, I can't just be like, hey, listen, this is, this is the thing, though. Alex fancies himself like a guy who's in a bunker somewhere who's like broadcasting the collapse and end of the world and he's been doing it for 20 plus years. Totally. Like that's what he thinks he's doing. He's like getting the word out to the troops on the front line or whatever. And that's, that's why he thinks he is doing something about it just by like being, being the voice of the Patriots. Sure. It's just so crazy to me that you could believe something like that. And then like, okay, well, I'm going to go to Target. Do you need anything from the store? Like no, at any point in time, somebody's going to kill you. Well, not Alex. You know, well, a team of

security and he lives in a million plus dollar house. And you know, it's a lot easier to say, it's a lot easier to say shit. You don't believe when you're rich. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't want to do anything about it because he jeopardized that richness. He loves being rich. So we heard at the end there, a pretty harrowing story about a carjacking. And so talk about this a little bit more. And Alex's response to this is really fucked up. But Chris, I mean, you are an American hero. They're on the front line standing up against these people. And you were trying to tell us a story of the beating of this woman or child. Tell us more about that. I'll read it straight from the paper. A woman and her 14 year old daughter were pulled from their SUV and beaten

outside their rural Cochise County home Thursday morning. And a carjacking by three men illegally in the United States. They stole their SUV, they punched the women in the mouth, stole their vehicle, got into a car chase with Border Patrol agents again on our rural highways, right during Russia morning rush hour, and children going to school right by children standing on the side of the road waiting for school. They should set up a roadblock and shoot that vehicle full of holes. Well, they pulled them over the guys took off running back across the border and they caught them just a few hundred yards on our side. They're beginning to see here something that's really important to recognize and hold on to Alex's principles and the things he says he believes

and don't matter when his emotions, particularly his hatred, get triggered on paper. Alex hates the idea that police have carte blanche to do whatever they want. He's still pretending to be kind of libertarian at this point. So he has a real strong problem with the state having a monopoly on the use of force, which is embodied by the fact that the police can initiate forceful exchanges with you. Talks about a prison planet police state is multiple films called police state. Yeah, Alex is constantly yelling about the militarization of police. And if you just took him at face value, you would possibly be tricked into thinking that you he had a sincere interest in police reform. And that maybe there could be some kind of alliance you could make with him to

work on it. But the truth is Alex doesn't care about that at all. He supports rampant police brutality when it's directed towards the groups he agitates against. Simcox is telling him a story here about a carjacking an assault. And because the alleged perpetrators are undocumented immigrants, Alex thinks the police should have fired on the car indiscriminately. Would that be what you would want people to do if it was just a carjacking? Where was a white citizen who had done it? I don't think Alex would. Hey, all I'm saying is that people should die for property. That's what it just makes sense to me for an inanimate object to be worth more than the life of a human being. I think it's more about the fact that they assaulted and beat up the Americans. I think

that's more what makes Alex angry than the property as because he's totally fine with them shooting the property itself full of holes. But I get what you're saying. I don't even know if this story is true, by the way. It very well may be, but it's clearly this is an article that Simcox is reading from his own publication, The Tombstone Tumbleweed, which exists solely to incite hatred toward migrants. Given the details that he provides, it's impossible to verify this story given that we have no idea when this happened. There are no names provided, so cross-checking doesn't really work. I couldn't find anything. I tried to find back issues online of the Tombstone Tumbleweed, but shockingly unavailable. In this environment where Simcox is willing to do this

shitty of a job, he could legitimately just make up whatever story he wants and people like Alex will accept it as real because it conforms to the narrative that they want to perpetuate, namely that migrants are an existential threat to the noble whites of the country. Not only will Alex accept whatever story he's told that lines up with what he wants to believe, he'll then use that story to advocate for summary executions to be carried out on these people by the police. If Alex were someone who cared about the truth, he'd be more careful about what stories he just blindly accepts. If Alex were someone who cared about the rising police state as much as he pretends to, he would never excitedly wish that the police could just randomly kill people for non-capital

crimes just because they're part of a vulnerable population that he happens to hate. It is just telling on yourself, I want to live in my fascist police state where I get to police everybody who does things that I don't like. It's not so transparent in the past, but you see it. It's pretty clear in the present more so. It's always been there. It's an unexamined piece of his own psyche that's been played out over decades. The truth is that Alex in this context should be on a cab side. That's not because he thinks that individual cops are bad. It is the institution itself. That's what he should believe. Exactly. It's not a personal thing like, oh, cops are bad. It is that the institution of policing in America needs to be changed fundamentally,

you know, from the ground up. That's his career proposition. That's the idea of stopping a prison planet to remove this problem, and it's still like a full-throated support of murder. Indiscriminate vigilante-style violence. He's told the story that he can't possibly know is true or not, and he's like, I hope the cops murder them. I hope they kill people. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, man. Fucking insane. But that in your next police state movie. Yeah, great. So we've won last clip here, and I wish it was better, honestly. There's no real outro. There's no button. Not really. But this clip, I thought was, I looked into it a little bit, and it was weird. Okay. Everybody should have to be armed and trained, and the next time somebody tries to cart, Jack,

you know what to do. Well, we have our local sheriff who's had enough, also Sheriff Dever, who is now, quote unquote, who's had enough. He's a citizen's volunteer patrol groups that are going to armed, patrol armed, our bus stop in the morning where our children wait for the buses, and we've had enough. That's it. So we got Sheriff Dever's had enough, and he's getting posseys together, I guess, deputizing folks. Sheriff Larry Dever passed away in a car crash in 2012. The autopsy revealed that he had a 0.29 blood alcohol level, which is almost comically high. Yeah, respect. For an adult man, you would need to have like 15 drinks in an hour to achieve that level. That is very difficult. Typically past 0.25, you're likely past the

point where you can walk on your own. At levels around 0.30, you will be in a complete stupor. This is like severe intoxication. I mean, yeah, I'm shocked he's awake. The fact that he was that drunk and could physically operate a motor vehicle led many to speculate that he was a career boozer. And that maybe he was pretty intoxicated, but he had a super high tolerance from drinking all the time. Yeah, sure. This raises another uncomfortable question, which is whether or not the other members of the sheriff's department had ever stopped him for driving drunk in the past and looked the other way, or they just covered for his drinking in other ways. Compounding the suspiciousness of this is the fact that Dever publicly presented himself as a teetotaler

and a devout Mormon. Because he was a real anti-immigrant type of sheriff who appealed to the bigot types like Alex and Simcox, conspiracy started to swirl after his death. It was really tough to make this look like a murder, though, because he had so much booze in his system. He was alone in the car. There was beer and liquor bottles in the car, bunch of them. And there was a witness to the time surrounding the crash. Another motorist had been behind him, but lost sight when Dever went around a corner or a curve. After that, the witness rounded the curve. He saw that there had been a crash. And this is exactly where you would expect a super drunk person to crash because their ability to navigate and negotiate the curve

would be diminished. Yeah. Anyway, Sheriff Dever, more than anything else, seems like another one of these severely anti-immigrant sheriffs who like to provide cover for extremists like Simcox. They legitimize things by virtue of their position. They say, like, we got to deputize people like Simcox, and then he is allowed to sort of run free and do all kinds of really irresponsible and shitty things. Yep. Yep. And by all counts, he was a hell of a drinker, because if you're driving with a BAC of.29, you're either drunk all day every day or you're not, but one day you just decided to have 15 drinks at an hour. I mean, seems unlikely. Yeah. I don't. Hey, I'm a drinker. I'm a bit of a boozer myself. That shit is bananas, bananas. Yeah. I wonder.

I mean, I've had some big nights in my life, let's say, of heroic drinking. I bet I've been there before, you know, because I know that I've been at points where I've been like, sure. You know, here's the fun thing for me. I did my heroic drinking before I was driving regularly. You were 15? I mean, I mean, like, you know, when I was 15, 17, 18, that kind of stuff, where I was living in the middle of fucking nowhere. So it wasn't like we were, and we were kids. So if we were driving, then we were getting pulled over and the whole town is, you know, that whole thing. It was that kind of thing. So we would go out into the middle of nowhere, sit there and drink all night, and then wake up and then go to go back, you know? Something. At a certain point. But still 15

drinks in an hour. No, I know. And what happened was I had finished a bottle of vodka over the course of like four or five hours, too much, too much. And it was like, well, I'm never going to get that shitfaced again. So now I just fall asleep at like 1130 if I drink too much. It's better. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's kind of an unsatisfying last clip. In as much as it's just, well, this guy, he was, I found that level of intoxication and the fact that he pretends to be a T totaler and what have you. Quite bizarre, but it's not really that meaningful in the grand scheme. Sure. I mean, I don't, I will never understand how it is that people are still so willing to be bamboozled into the concept of an elected official having a virtue signaling

a party and then trusting them. That's crazy to me. Look, this is 2004. We're on how many years of a country are we on with people being elected? If somebody is trying to get elected and they virtue signal, don't trust them. I'm a young America believer. I think our country started in 2000. It is like, which very funny. It is like, I love it when that's a response to a joke. Yeah, acknowledged, acknowledged. It's like when my parents, you know, they were like, oh, we're going to see a clean comic. And I'm like, that person is probably a sketchy weirdo. They are absolutely doing some fucked up shit. They are almost certainly doing heroin in the green room. Yeah, absolutely. Those are the people that you cannot trust. Somebody who's like,

Hey, I do all kinds of weird shit. Sometimes you got to be like, yeah, well, if you're open and honest about it, you are telling me the truth. That's not a great rule to live by, but that oftentimes it does prove to be the case valuable. So anyway, we reach the end of this and we'll go back to the present, find out what Alex thinks about the arrest and all that. But I felt like I wanted to not do that on our maiden voyage back. I appreciate it greatly. And I wanted to, I just, you know, while you were gone, I was spending a lot of time listening to these episodes because I wanted to have an enjoyable time and I found some things like a dude faking a heart attack, which are just so fun. Yeah. If you find a dude faking a heart attack,

it's going in an episode. Yeah. We'll do an entire episode and you'll be wait. I mean, yeah, yeah. Honestly, you'll be like, listen, this episode, you'll tell me before the show. You'll be like, honestly, most of this episode is going to be garbage, but there is one clip that I can't not play for you. It's too good. We've, it's going to happen. Guy named Jim Bolt bolted across state lines to avoid a bolt of lightning struck him. And that was the idea of faking a heart attack. Oh, no, I'm coming, Elizabeth. All right. So we'll be back. But until then, Jordan, glad to be back. Good to see you. Always good to see you. Always good to do that for the good joke. I know I feel it. I felt it in the moment.

Yeah. We'll be back. Until then, we have a website. Indeed we do. It's knowledge fight.com. Yep. We're also on Twitter. Indeed we are. It's at knowledge underscore fight. Yep. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Leo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. Oh, you know what? And now here comes the sex robots. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. So, Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.