Knowledge Fight - #801: February 10, 2004

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan go back to the past to take in a very important day in Alex's history.  In this installment, Alex attempts to interview Oliver North, and it doesn't go as well as he hoped it would.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George Knowledge Fight. I need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas.

Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas you're on the air. Thanks for holding us. Hello Alex, I'm a Christian and a huge fan. I love your work. Knowledge Fight. No, no, no, no, no, no. I love you.

Hey everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes. Like sit around, worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are, Dan. Jordan.

Dan, Jordan. I have a quick question for you, sir. What's up? What's your bright spot today? My bright spot today, Jordan, is today, just earlier on this very day, the moon has not come back up. Wait.

What? The sun has not set and rose. Okay, all right. Since I had, this afternoon I had an opportunity to speak to some students at Colgate University. Oh, wonderful. I went and had a nice little symposium with them and it was a lot of fun.

It was a treat to have the privilege of speaking to the young. And, you know, don't laugh at me. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You just said privilege of speaking to the young. It is nice, though. No, I understand. I understand.

To be able to share some information that I have and then also kind of get a sense of some of the things that they're thinking about. Sure. Of course, studying things in these political science-y fields. Yeah. They had a lot of pretty insightful questions.

It was an interesting time and thank the professor for inviting me. And it was a delight. Thank those students. That's great. Thank you all. That's good news. Delightful time.

Yeah, I always enjoy that. Is it against the rules to make any toothpaste jokes whatsoever? Do they like pounce upon them like Panthers? I'm not sure. I mean, I assume that it's a little hacky. I mean, obviously it's a little hacky, but that's why you do it in the belly of the beast.

It's a little placky. Yeah. Don't hold it in, you dick. All right. I'm not going to listen. You got that one. I'll give you five bonus points for that one. God, you were straining not to laugh.

I was trying very hard. Brutal. I didn't try and crack any toothpaste jokes. No, of course. Although, I was trying to think of something that would be clever and I just kind of gave up on it. Yeah, there's no way to. I'm sure it's already been done.

I think so, by greater comedic minds than I. I mean, placky, that's about as good as it gets. Yeah. And I wouldn't have worked if it hadn't up and set up by you for me to spike it in your face. Absolutely. So what's your bright spot? My bright spot, Dan, is from the mailbag.

Zip. We received from Brandon H these two custom made Pez dispensers featuring the dastardly and disgusting head of Alex Jones. His neck is appropriately thick. Oh, it's very large. It's thicker than most Pez dispensers that I've ever seen. Yeah, it's almost the same size as his giant bulbous head,

which I think is accurate. Yeah, I'll post a picture of this on Twitter for folks to enjoy. It comes along with a wizard hat. And what's, I mean, a bright spot, of course. These are amazing and beautiful. Another added bright spot on top of that is that this person sent a tracking number.

So I didn't get an alert on this one. I didn't know that anything was in there until they sent a tracking number. Then I went there and I asked them if we had anything and they were like, no, we don't have anything for you in the system. And I was like, ah, ah, ah, ah, excuse me, my dear. The chacuse.

Exactly. Pull out the tracking number. And they were like, oh, we put it in the wrong thing. And I was like, ha, ha. I'm trying to hide our shit. Totally. So this was a victory for truth. For all parties.

Justice. And I would do it as an American way. Hey, how about that? So it's a bright spot for sure. Amen. So Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. Indeed. And you know, I've had a little bit of stuff juggling.

So I decided I'm going to go back to 2004. We're spending some time in 2004. And holy shit, did I strike pay dirt. February 10th, 2004. All right. A day that will live in infamy. OK. Not really.

All right. But there is something pretty fucking amazing on this episode. All right. I'm in. So we'll get down to business on that, lest I tease it way more. But before we do, take business into our own hands with this episode.

Let's say hello to some new wonks, Jordan. So first, cool and unusual punishment. Thank you so much. You're an out policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Next, Daddy Shark.

Ba, ba, ba, ba. Thank you so much. You're an out policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. There were only four ba's. Hey, you get what you get. Yep.

Next, congratulations, Professor Brazel. We're so happy for you. Thank you so much. You're an out policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next, Kim, disciple of the fifth way

to learn binging knowledge fight episodes. Thank you so much. You're an out policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. And we got a technocrat in the mix, Jordan. So thank you so much to all caps with an exclamation

point at the end. Brad Alert, you are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. I have risen above my enemies. I might quit tomorrow, actually. I'm just going to take a little breaky now. A little breaky for me. And then we're going to come back.

And I'm going to start the show over. But I'm the devil. I've got to be taken out of here. I've been on this. Fuck you. Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you. But at the end of the day, fuck you in your new world order.

And fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit. Maybe today should be my last broadcast. I mean, maybe I'll just be gone a month, maybe five years. Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow. And you never see me again. That's really what I want to do. I never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday

that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. I'll be better tomorrow. No, he will not. He will never be. Nope. He shan't be. But the past is kind of fun. Yeah.

This episode is in that genre that I love. So there's my favorite thing, of course, is a movie review. Sure. If I can ever find a movie review, I'm tickled pink. Right. However, there's a second thing that I love. That's not hatchet throwing. No.

Right. That's more presentable. Of course. Ambition. I agree. I like to see ambition. And it usually comes out in this form. Welcome, my friends, to another live edition

of the Alex Jones Show. I'm Alex Jones, your host. You are not going to want to miss this broadcast. We have a top level neocon, a communist, a liberal, a big government promoter in sheep's clothing, joining us in conservative clothing, scheduled. But I'm not going to say who's coming on. So because if we do that, sometimes they don't show up.

That's exactly what he said at the Ann Coulter interview. Right. Right. Honestly, think he wants them to cancel. I think he's trying to get them to cancel. That makes them look all cowardly and shit. Exactly. He's trying to lure them into a position

where they can't even stand up to talk to me. By insulting them quite a bit. Now, granted, he has guests in 2004 who are of the caliber of busyness. Sure. They are not probably listening to the beginning of his show. So it doesn't really work. And I was like, OK, so the last time he did this,

it was Ann Coulter and it went horribly. Yeah. I was like, this is going to be exciting. Who is this? I mean, who does he have on? Yeah, I mean, Karl Rove. Who are the wolf wits? Who are those?

Who are those people who talked on the dumb shows? The, you know, there's the bald guy who's from New Orleans. He's a political operative. Carville? Yeah, is it Carville and the other person who they used to argue back and forth with? No, Hannity and Combs. Is it Hannity or Combs?

No. Oh, OK. And it's, it's, but it was somebody that I was shocked. OK. Was there. All right. When I saw this, I was like, holy shit. All right.

Not because I think that they're a celebrity or cool or anything like that, but they're a big name. And there are things Alex should be asking this person about that he does not. Oh, no. But we'll get to that here in a bit. All right. It's very exciting.

All right. So we've got that. And that's, like I said, my favorite thing is when Alex has an idea that he's going to humiliate a guest. Sure. And then it doesn't work. No, the best, the best is whenever he believes that he can win an argument so hard,

that person must, must slink away. Like, listen, I don't even want to be on the show anymore. You've defeated me so soundly that I must, I must give my congratulations to you. It's an Icarus level of hubris. Totally. He is, he's manifesting. 100%.

It's just, you can tell, it's not going to work. It's so great. The Bill Ayers kind of thing. It's just, it's no screwed, Alex. Yeah, it's not, it's not smart. No, it's so good. So you have that going. And then in this lead up to the 2004 election,

obviously you have Carrie and Bush and they're both skull and bones. So there's just constant skull and bones talk. Great. In the next segment, I'm going to play the two clips of George W. Bush on Meet the Press talking about skull and bones and how it's so secret he can't talk about it. And John F. Carey a few months ago on Meet the Press with Tim,

C.F.R. Russert. And by the way, we have these video clips up yesterday linked to some other websites, but they couldn't handle the bandwidth as soon as we linked to them. We crash their servers. And so we've grabbed the clips and put them up ourselves at infowars.com. I don't think I believe that part.

But I find it strange that he insists on calling him John F. Carey. Yeah. But maybe it's mirroring George W. Bush or something. I don't know. John F. Carey also has the JFK. Yeah. So there's just, there's a lot of weirdness to it.

But he does call him that quite a bit. It's an affectation that I feel like doesn't mean as much as maybe he thinks it does. Or is it just a tick, you know? Just like once you start doing something annoying, you just keep on doing it for fun. Could be anything just maybe to be in dramatic. So look, this cast that's coming on, big old Neocon.

Uh-huh. All right. We've got loaded phones. And I haven't even given the phone number out. And we'll get to you. But you're going to have to hold a while because we've got a chief Neocon coming on here in a few minutes.

But you'll get a chance to talk to him. So I guess you can bring up Scullin' Bones to him. Oh my god. Scullin' Bones is all you've got to talk about. Dan, you are a fucking tease. You are teasing this. Those two clips that Alex has of Carey and Bush, they just hit them answering questions glibly.

Like, hey, you're part of a secret society. Can't talk about it. It's secret. Yeah. And Alex is like, they are demonic. Part of a Satan worshipping organization. Sure. Right, buddy.

Whatever. I mean, what would that be? What would that be? That would be almost a quadruple bluff at that point. Right. For Carey to, for Bush and Carey to actually be in a secret satanic organization, we would have to be through four levels of bluff

and counter bluff in order for that to work. Yeah. And like, if this was as nefarious as someone like Alex wants to believe, I find it difficult to imagine the questioning of it, you'd be like, glibly joking. I mean, yeah. You know?

I mean, you're on fucking TV. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Bush is someone who's known for his gaffes. Told us somebody would break at least a little bit sooner or later. But nothing. Nothing.

Nothing. Also, this guest has nothing to do with Scullin' Bones. But why aren't we asking them about Scullin' Bones? I'm not even positive. I mean, I know they didn't go to Ivy League schools. Sure. And I'm not positive they even got a bachelor's except through the military.

OK. Is it David Petraeus? It is not. OK. However, you're not far off. OK. Monday through Friday from 11 to 8 AM until 2 PM central standard time, back from 9

to midnight, I'm Alex Jones. Websites are infowars.com and prisonplanet.com. We're joined by Oliver North, and he's written a book that's already on the bestseller list of New York Times War Stories. What? That's also the show on Fox News. What?

And Mr. North, it's good to have you on the show with us. Alex, it's a pleasure. Thank you. Yep. Ollie North. I, I, I, so 2004. Yep. Alex Jones and Infowars.

Oliver North, pleasure to talk to you, Alex. He has no idea who he is. No clue. And none whatsoever. There is out throughout this interview. Oh, I believe it. I believe it. So yeah, Oliver North, guy mixed up in the Iran-Contra affair.

See, this is a thing I don't understand. I've, anytime I've ever done anything, anytime I've ever done a guest spot, I've done at least a little bit of research. I've listened to like 15 minutes of their show, at least, just to get a vibe of how they talk. You know, I'm not like going back through back catalogs or something, but I know who, I know what they sound like

when I go into it, you know? I understand, and I think that's a good practice, generally. But if you're somebody like Oliver North, who's a major figure, and you're on Fox News, you have a show there, and you just have a book that you've, you're on a book tour, you aren't going to be able to screen every single interview that your agent brings to you. You know, and the,

I guess what we're really saying is I'm not busy. No. And ultimately too, the goal is he's trying to sell his book, which is about the soldiers and like profiles and courage and what have you. And so yeah, he's on with Alex. And I think if you ever get the chance to talk to Oliver North, probably Iran Contra

is one of the main things you're going to talk about. Here's what I would do. I would say, how's it feel to do all the war crimes and shit? Does that feel good or bad? Or do you not care? You fucking psychopath. You choose. Even if you're Alex Jones, then maybe your angle on it

would be like, how do the globalists relate to Iran Contra? Yeah. Like you could, you could find a way in. He doesn't does not ask him about it. I forgot he had a show on Fox News. Yeah. Also, I don't know if Alex knows Larry Nichols at this point. Yeah.

Who was mixed up in Iran Contra. Alex. So like that would have been an interesting little parallel to make. But yeah, it doesn't come up. That's not cool. Alex. That's uncool.

Alex kind of sasses him on it as they're hanging up. Sure. But it's not even that funny or dishy or insulting. That's disappointing. Yeah. And so I don't know. So when he talked to Ann Coulter, obviously the goal was confrontation.

But he pretended to be nice to her for a fair amount of that interview until it became unsalvageable. Right. With Oliver North, he is confrontational straight out of the game. I'm fine with that. Sure.

Yeah. You need no introduction. You've got a national TV show. Because all the clients. You've got a radio program. I'm going to be honest with you right here from the outset. I'm not going to sit here on the show and sneak attack you. I'm angry about the open borders.

I'm angry about the Patriot Act. I've read it. I'm angry about arming North Korea. I'm angry at Clinton. I'm angry at Bush. I'm angry at everything that's happened in this country. Let me just finish. I'm no fan of Saddam Hussein.

But there's this disconnect of who arms Saddam, who was in bed with Saddam. We've seen all this happen. I certainly support the troops. But and you've been over there for months and months and months in the last year or so. And I certainly appreciate that on the ground coverage. But I mean, come on.

Well, where do you want me to start? I mean, you want to start with Iraq and work our way around the globe or what, Alex? To be fair, all over North, as a guest, makes a pretty decent rebuttal. What do you want to talk about? You start. This is your show.

Yeah. I guess you've clarified that you're angry at everybody. Yeah. But you didn't ask me a question. Yeah. You just. Alex, so the opening of this interview, I believe, begins with you saying that I am mad at everyone

and then throwing it to me. Uh-huh. Cool. All right. So why? To what end? To what end should it be thrown to me after this? I hate everybody speech.

Did you want me to just be like, me too, Alex? Let's fucking ride. It's an interesting dynamic wherein Alex can make Oliver North seem decent. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And he does come off quite well,

because Alex is so bad at this. I'm amazed at our ability. I'm amazed at our ability as a country to be like, well, this person lied on a grand scale. We can trust him going forward, right? Well, he did penance. Did he? I don't know.

I don't think so. Maybe. Depends on how you define it. Ah. So anyway, Alex is like, hey, man, Rumsfeld. Yeah. He has all these plans. He's a bad dude.

To invade all these countries. Of course. And then Oliver North has a shockingly good answer. I'm tired of hearing from people saying you're against the troops or you're not a conservative if you're not all out for this war. I'm concerned because they want to go into Syria, Iran, all these new countries.

Do you support that? Well, first of all, I've seen absolutely no evidence that anybody wants to go into any of those. I mean, there may be people talking about it outside the government. But I've heard nobody inside this administration, surely no one at the Pentagon and nobody at Central Command, talking about going into Syria or Iran.

I mean, there's been Oliver. Sir, there's been skirmishes going on with Syria. Rumsfeld's put out three plans to go ahead and invade Syria. Well, no, wait a second. Wait a second. We've got war plans to invade Antarctica. I mean, we've had those on the books at World War II. And you're constantly updating.

We waste your money here at the government. It's written by Dick Cheney in 2000, Rebuilding America's Defenses. Have you read that PNAC document? Yeah, I mean, I've read the classified, as well as the unclassified versions of these things. I mean, one of the things that we've got to be aware of here in this country

is that to defend this nation against our adversaries, we've got to be literally prepared to go anywhere. So now, I am not super in favor of the government as you put it, wasting our money. But what he brings up is the dynamic that is real, is the preparedness. There is a plan in case, as Oliver North puts it at one point, it's like, yes, we have these plans for literally

everywhere, because we don't want the plan to be in New York. And fair enough. But that is the game that Alex plays. There's this plan of how you would invade Syria. Sure, there's a plan of how we would invade Antarctica. There's no rebuttal to that for Alex. Yeah, I mean, other than like, oh, that's bad. That's a real bad idea.

Maybe if we have plans to invade places, we should probably be thinking of different plans. Do you think that a lot of other countries don't have contingency plans? I mean, not for invading the United States. How many countries have a plan for invading the United States of America is now my new question? Mike Adams would tell you that China has it,

and it's halfway through. I mean, here's the thing. I just don't see how a good plan could be done for either invading the United States or invading Antarctica. It would be a bad idea. I don't disagree. Yeah, maybe most countries don't have elaborate plans

on how they might go about invading a ton of countries. Yeah, I would say here's what it is. It is something that makes everybody feel more comfortable to make it feel like, oh, well, we have control over this uncontrollable, unforeseeable situation. It's all pretend. Yeah, I think there's an element of that

that is a psychosomatic effect that you can have from it. But then the other element too is that maybe it is even like a little bit of a subtle threat. Yeah, I would say so too. And maybe on that level, it's not good. Like I said, I'm not supporting that state of affairs, but that answer to Alex's question leads him to a dead end, except for your rebuttal, which is maybe it's

bad that we have those plans. But that's a conversation I don't think Alex necessarily really can handle, especially not with all of the North. No, I think the obvious rebuttal to that is more like, are you saying that if this, did you pay attention to the original invasion? Did you pay attention to how that started? Are you saying that that was the plan we had in place

in advance? Are you saying that our plan was to fuck up so unbelievably badly that we're going to be here for the next 20 fucking years? That was the plan? You might be a quicker thinker than Alex. I might be ahead of that. I might be ahead of that game.

Because that could have worked, but he doesn't. He doesn't go with that. Instead, he shifts the conversation over to Rex 84. Yep, that sounds great. The plan to put everyone in concentration camps in America is a bad plan. And it's, of course, not that. But Oliver North is connected with that plan.

And so Alex brings that up, and North shuts him down again. Colonel North, we have a clip in one of my videos where you're before the Congress. And Congressman Jack Brooks brings up the plans that have been published, and I have copies of them, for concentration camps in America. Alex, that's just not fair to your audience.

First of all, there was never a plan anywhere in my government. And it's certainly not the administration I worked in for concentration camps for anybody. Why would I believe you? Jack Brooks had a political agenda. His agenda was to remove Ronald Reagan from office. He raised that issue. And you may remember, if you play the full clip of that hearing,

I sat there stunned that the continuity of government plan to preserve a constitutional republic. That's what that plan was all about. We spent $16 billion in it, from 1981 to 1983, trying to make sure that the country could never be decapitated, and it would never, ever be in the hands of someone other than Mr. North. Alex, I'll let you finish.

You're going to let me finish? Well, Colonel, I have all the mainstream news articles in Newsmax, I'm sure you've heard of them, where they found out about the current plan to build one million men. Alex, Alex, let's just finish one topic at a time before we go on. You'll never be able to see her here.

Yeah, she's like, how about this evil plan? We have a clip of you, like, it was continuity of government type situation. Like, what are you talking about? Reagan wasn't trying to put people in camps? Right, right. I mean, but that's where we get back to my problem with the United States and how we do things,

and maybe just people in general. I can never trust you again, Oliver. That's how that works. Well, that is an unfortunate reality. How is it that he still had a TV show and shit like that? Well, yeah, it is objectively strange that there are two people talking, and neither of them are in any way trustworthy.

I cannot believe a single word either of these men is saying to each other. Yeah. I think that in terms of the subjects that Alex is bringing up and the way that Oliver North is talking about them, North's stuff is way more connected to reality. Totally. And so I am everything that I've learned from my digging

into things. Sure. And so not so much trusting him, but recognizing that he is closer to not full of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I believe. It's just a challenge.

I get it. I believe that Oliver North is correct when he said that Reagan did not have concentration camp plans. All right, I believe that. However, I cannot believe Oliver North when he just says that. I'm going to need to talk to other people. And now what's interesting about that is that dynamic is real.

And Alex can't handle an interview with someone who's so impeachable. Yeah. You know, he gets so thoroughly impeachable. He still drops the ball. Yeah, I mean, that is bananas. This is the most easy slam dunk layup thing that you could possibly get, especially if you're Alex.

Yeah. This motherfucker's part of an illegal conspiracy. Yeah. He is a literal conspiracy person. Yeah, yeah. And Alex somehow tricked him into coming on the show. Oh my god. He's right there.

And Alex can't do it. He's got to talk about Reagan. Now we're going to talk about Rex 84. God damn it. And then Oliver North scolds him. OK, well, look, I mean, I appreciate you coming on. No, but Alex, I mean, it's not fair to your audience to make these kinds of claims.

They're not claims. It doesn't bother me. They're not claims. I mean, I've seen the New York Times pieces about me and the liberal press and what they said about me. It doesn't bother me at all. But for you to mislead the audience, say, Ronald Reagan intended to put people into concentrations

cance an outrage. OK, let me stop you right there. Let me stop you there. It's an outrage. Let me stop you right there. Let me make it matter. I'm going to change subjects real quick. I could call you probably a liar in some fashion.

Let me pivot and see if I can confuse you. Yeah, exactly. But I do enjoy that scolding him. This is not fair to your audience because it's not. I appreciate that. I appreciate that he's obsessed with being like, hey, listen, you're lying to your audience the wrong way. I work for Fox News.

So Alex tries to rebut the rebuttal to the Reagan concentration camps. And here's how that goes. You can tell if you pay, man, not even that close of attention, you can tell towards the end of this that all over North is starting to get annoyed. Good. But for you to mislead the audience,

say, Ronald Reagan intended to put people into concentrations camps and outrage. OK, let me stop you right there, Colonel North, because what you just did is an outrage. OK? I didn't say, hold on a second. I didn't say Ronald Reagan wanted to put people into concentration camps.

Ronald Reagan did. Hold on, let me finish. Let me finish. I said that those plans have now been released and the old plans have been integrated with new plans. And I've got Denver Post, Associated Press, Washington Times, a liberal conservative admitting Newsmax got the purchase orders for three 1 million man camps.

OK, this is last year. It's all posted at prisonplanet.com in the civilian inmate labor camp program. I have the Army documents for there already using prisoners to expand these. And so I know you've been out of the country in Iraq and all this. What I'm telling you is I'm not bringing up

smoky conspiracy theories. Alex, I recommend you get out there and start campaigning for John Kerry right now. I mean, that's what you've got to do, buddy. Oh, another skull and bones member. Well, I mean, John Kerry's the guy wants to take apart our military. And obviously, you're afraid of our military

and afraid of our government. Hey, you know that Senator Warner and Bush and Cheney and all of them said they want to get rid of Posse Comitatus. No, I've not heard him say that. I have Ridge on tape saying they want to get rid of it. On Fox News, are you forgetting rid of Posse Comitatus? No. Certainly, you know that in the late 80s,

they already had Marine Corps officers dressed up in police uniforms doing drug and gun raids in Norfolk, Virginia. Oh, Alex, good Lord, help me. I like a good Lord, help me. Good Lord, help me. I like that. That's a genuine, that's a real and, I think,

reasonable response to Info Wars. Lord, help me. I would accept that from anyone, regardless of where they're from. It's so weird, though, that it's coming out of Oliver North. I mean, I think it's so funny to me that he's exasperated with Alex's bullshit, and then he's like, now John Kerry's

trying to dismantle the entire military. Right. Your propaganda is only slightly different. Right. That's not a good enough difference. No, I think the good enough difference, or at least the sort of the way they would put the difference, maybe, is that that propaganda is like right in the wheelhouse

of electoral politics smears. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It's in that sweet spot of stuff you expect from the left and the right. Thomas Jefferson now, yeah, the whole thing. We've all been there. Yeah, there's a deep tradition to that. Whereas the stuff that Alex is coming up with

is a little bit like, all right, you're out there, man. This is nonsense. You know, here's what I will say. And it is exasperating to deal with nonsense. It's not as exasperating to just deal with regular S smears. Regular S bullshit. Right.

Here's what I think, though. What I'm putting together, I feel like, is when we talk about how Fox News and that stuff has moved closer to Infowars right now, what we don't talk about is that when you watch this, when I listen to this interview, I see two incredibly trustworthy people, both with massive audiences. Untrustworthy.

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, incredibly untrustworthy. Apologies, misspoke. Both with massive audiences. And as time has gone on, they've both come closer together. Alex has moved towards electoral politics. And Oliver North's bullshit has moved exactly towards Alex. And consider, too, how, at this point,

Oliver North is on the board at the NRA, and Alex thinks the NRA is a gun-grab organization. And now he's fine with the NRA, and they're far more extreme, and Kid Rock is on the board. Totally. That's right. Because why not? Because why not?

Or is it just Ted Nugent, who cares? We live in fantasy lives. Yeah, yeah, it's messed up. And I mean, I think there is that feedback loop, and part of it comes from the lack of truth, really, from both of them. Their grifts aren't that different, so why not come closer together?

I think their grifts are different substantially, but not in ways, maybe, that are that meaningful to them. Yes. But here's something that I was thinking about. Sure. There's some of the only times that we hear people pushing on Alex from a place that's rooted in reality are people like Ann Coulter and Oliver North.

Of course. And I thought that was weird, but then I was like, well, yeah. People who are on the left and stuff are probably never going to be on the show. But Oliver North and Ann Coulter are the only types of people who are close enough ideologically. They're famous, so they'll get tricked into coming on. Right.

And maybe don't have to worry about Alex's shit. Right. You know, like, as some other smaller person who's in a conservative space might need to worry about what they could get out of this, whereas Coulter and Oliver North, they're made. They don't need to worry about this shit. Well, I mean, and that I think.

They don't need to worry about rebooking. No, of course not. And I think that comes down to what we talk about of like he's not above the right-left paradigm at all. He can talk to these people because they're essentially on the same team. We have differences within that same team.

Somebody on the left, if they do that, if they do that kind of pushback that you're getting from Ann Coulter or Oliver North, he's just going to yell over them and you're going to realize you're going to be like, this is a waste of time for everybody. So I'm done here. It's going to take like three or four aggressive moments

before he calls Oliver North a commie. Exactly, yes, exactly. That's coming immediately. Right out the gate. Oh, you fucking commie is how it starts. Yeah. So Oliver North's getting a little bit annoyed. He has this to say to Alex.

You're sitting here trying to imply I'm for John Kerry. I don't know who you're for. I didn't say you were for John Kerry. I'm saying it doesn't matter. You got two people who are related to each other. So what are you going to do? Overthrow the government? This is, you know what, my declaration of independence

says that when my government becomes a legitimate and becomes destructive with the Bill of Rights, it is my job to replace it. And I want our country back. Well, then I recommend you do it with balance instead of bullets, Alex. Oh, the diable systems are doing quite nice. We've tried to do it.

You've seen the thousands of articles admitting with their own engineers saying that it's a scam. OK, so you don't want to do it with balance. How do you want to do it? I'm going to try to do it by educating people. And of course, I'm doing it. I mean, just sit there and listen to a year or you want to do something.

Yes, sit there and listen to doing something. No, no, I'm asking what you want the people to do. I mean, I'm kind of curious about this. I want them to do it with balance. I want them to become a leery, leery of big government. The government's grown by 45% Colonel North in the last three years. Well, then I recommend you get guys on your show

that they'll talk and support this kind of stuff. All I did was write a book about how brave American soldiers, sailors, and Marines are. And you call me up to blast me about the government. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair stuff to argue with that. I'm on a book tour. Alex.

Yep. I have no influence on the size of the government. You talk about the book. Yeah. But there's an interesting perceptiveness that Oliver North has there that like you could do it with ballots or bullets. You want to overthrow the government.

Well, these ballot systems don't work. And Oliver North's got to be thinking like, all right, so you do want to do it with bullets, right? Right, right, right. It's just that moment, too, of the what do you want to do? Do you just want people to sit here and listen to you? That's perceptive. That's so right on.

It's like, yes, that is what Alex wants. Yeah, there should have been like a little light bulb that went off and on above Alex's head, which is like, that's the best outcome for me. I've been seen. Yeah, exactly. Finally, someone has seen my dream and shares it with me. Yeah.

Mic down for this, because this clip is really funny. Alex, you're obviously very angry. I am angry. We're losing our country. Well, I'll tell you what. I'm glad we still got youngsters willing to defend it. Oh, youngsters? You know I'm a youngster, huh?

No, I'm talking about youngsters. The ones, the 19 and a half year olds that I was discovering. Well, let's take a few calls. Let's talk to Jerry in Wisconsin. Jerry, go ahead. You're on the air. Yeah, how's it going, Alex? Fine, go ahead.

I was wondering, does that guy you're talking to, does he listen to any of your videos or what? No, I don't think I'll ever know or seen any of my videos. It kind of sounds that way. He needs to blow out some of the cobwebs out of a Zerzer. That is a compound hilarity. Yeah, I don't even know how to deal with quite. That's too much.

I love Alex thinking that he's calling him a youngster who's ready to fight for the country. Totally. Yep, not talking about you, buddy. Talking about the troops. Talking about the troops, duh. This caller is like, I don't know who this guy is, I mean, I don't know.

This Oliver North character needs to watch Endgame and wake up. Here's what just happened. We justified our show entirely with that, because that clip needed to be heard. And up until this point, up until this point, you had to have been listening on February 4th, 2004, February 10th, 2004, in order to hear this. See, I'm like, you know, I used to watch when I was a kid,

the documentaries and videos of DJs talking about how they'd go to record stores and dig in the crates. And that's what I'm doing, man. That's 100% what you're doing. I'm digging in the crates. You're crate digging. We've got these gems.

How many remixes have we got already? We've got crate diggers. This is what it's about. Finding these moments where a caller is like, who's this young whippersnapper Oliver North? He doesn't know anything about how the government works or how clandestine operations go. I just don't know if it gets better than that.

Because on Twitter, sure, people have always been that stupid. They love being like, oh, I'm going to correct this doctor of the thing that they're talking about. But that's on Twitter. That's an over typing. That's fast, flicked off, bullshit. This man had to call.

The scholar seems to not know who Oliver North is. No idea. Which is amazing. Yep. And then also, this is before he made Endgame. For somebody? Like the documentaries that he's suggesting he watch are unwatchable.

Yep. Woof. Yeah. So there's other things that need to come up. Sure. Oklahoma City bombing. Naturally. What do you know about that?

I don't know why we're talking to Oliver North about that. And guess what? Neither does Oliver North. That's right. Colonel North, Ben Parton said he worked on one of your campaigns. You've stated his house, General Benton Parton, former head of Air Force weapons development.

He says there were bombs inside the building. And obviously, government elements were involved. You said during the break that you were aware of his report. Do you have any comments to it? Well, I don't know what I'd report. I mean, what do you want me to add to it? Oh, I mean, do you think a truck bomb did that? Well, there's no doubt that Timothy McRader

of a truck bomb up there. You don't doubt that to you. I got the police on record saying multiple people got out of that vehicle as a government operation for Herr Clinton. But I mean, answer the question. Does a truck bomb blow a building out and pieces of it on top buildings? Well, I've seen buildings blow up all kinds of different ways.

And Ben Parton's an old friend of mine, and I'm not about to criticize his analysis of it. But let me just tell you something. Well, do you have the courage to answer the question? Do I have the courage to answer what question? You can't handle the question. All right. This is so ridiculous.

Yeah, this is, I mean, this is just the thing to let wash over you. That exists. This exists. I felt like we kind of needed a little bit of something that's surreal after, you know, there's some downers and some bummer shit going on. And so like something like this that's like,

you just marvel at Alex demanding answers about Oklahoma City. What do you do? Yeah. No, I mean, it is like sometimes what a great reminder of what it is that we started this for. And that's finding out that Oliver North is talking. You know Ben Parton, right?

So therefore, you answer my question about it all. So do you think that he has the courage to answer this question? I mean, I suppose the, OK. I suppose that he will have the courage to answer, but will he have the courage to answer the way that Alex wants him to? Of course not.

Oh, OK. Colonel North, well do you have the courage to answer the question? Do I have the courage to answer what question? Alex, unlike the mother. Oklahoma City, what is your expert opinion on it? I'm not an expert on buildings blowing up. I'm a Marine infantry officer.

So you don't know anything about explosions? Well, I've certainly caused a lot of them to happen. Jesus. What do you think his answers are going to be? Well, I was an expert in demolitions. Right, right, right. If you're Alex, what do you think is the best case outcome for this?

I don't know. I think he's trying to make him mad or something and make him leave. Make him run away. If that's the case, then why doesn't he start fucking with him about a wrong contract? Because Alex isn't like that caller. Alex does know who he is.

Yeah. But yeah, that's fun. Maybe it's a situation where Alex is so used to himself and everyone around him faking expertise that he just expects that everyone does that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not the kind of caliber of grifter I'm used to having on the show.

Yeah, you're a different variety. You seem to be above my garbage bullshit. Or uninterested. Yeah, very much uninterested, yes. I'm used to dealing with bottom feeder weirdos who have much lower of a profile than me. I'm not used to someone who was involved in high capacity with Ron Contra, has been involved in high level crimes.

I was going to say politics, clandestine operations, planning of stuff. Yeah, like he doesn't give a shit. It's on Fox News. It's got a book. I could not be more. I think Alex should just be like, hey, sorry. Most of the lieutenant colonels I talked to

were not actually lieutenant colonels. And they're not real. No. I do think that there's also something to be said for the fact that he doesn't just leave. Because there is, I feel like there's an almost academic interest that Over North has. I think he's curious about what Alex is up to.

Totally. Do you want to take over the government? Is that what you want? Who are you in favor of? What do you want? Because most people, I assume, who live in the world of reality, have some fairly concrete ideas about what they advocate for or what they want,

especially somebody who has a fucking nationally syndicated radio show. You would expect. You'd think. They'd have a thought out, this is what I'm about. This is, you know, and it's an election year. So obviously, Over North expects if he's on a conservative radio station, they're

not going to be anywhere near supporting Kerry. Obviously, they're going to be Bush supporters. And I think he's confused. And here we are. Yeah, yeah. So he doesn't he doesn't get an answer. Over North doesn't do the Bush Kerry dilemma. Do you know what I think this reminds me of?

What's that? This reminds me of the scene in Jackass, where they go into all the different ways to hit somebody with a giant hand. You know, like going on info wars at this time period might as well have been getting hit with a giant hand in the face. Like you go down, you see your glasses of orange juice

fly up in the air. You do the whole thing. And then you're like, that was pretty funny. Honestly, you got to give it to me. That was pretty funny. I bet Oliver North didn't leave this and be like, that was pretty funny. That guy was annoying.

That's true. That's true. So anyway, back to the Bush Kerry dilemma. OK. My point is that we've never had a more liberal president than George W. Bush. Sure. Well, then what are you going to do about it?

That's a question. That's a good one. What am I going to do when we got a choice between John Kerry and Bush? Yes. It kind of looks that way to me. I mean, I don't have a gift for prophecy, but it kind of looks like that's how the nomination is going

to go. We've got a primary in Virginia today. It looks like it's going to hand it to him. Oliver North's war stories. It's got a DVD, a video with it, huh? Just changing the subject completely. He's got to get the plug in before they say goodbye. We got nothing.

We got nothing. Yeah. No, I don't have any answers or ideas about what I want to do. I'm going to be honest with you. I do not have the courage to answer that question. No, and I think it comes back to what Alex said, and then Oliver North reiterated. Alex is just angry.

It is not focused. It is not directed. It's not productive. It is just sort of a performance of anger. And well, I mean, obviously, this isn't eat the red card moment. If somebody gives you the choice, if you're Alex Jones and somebody does give you the perceptive reality of,

if you are arguing that it cannot be done by nonviolent means, then you are arguing that it must be done by violent means. There's only two options. At a certain point, there's only two options. Well, not necessarily in the same. For Alex. Well, no, no, no.

Because there are multiple nonviolent ways, and there are probably multiple violent ways. Well, sure. But I mean, the question boils down to. Positive that most of the nonviolent ways don't eventually boil down to that single nonviolent way of ballots. Sure.

You know? And no, no, no, no, no, no, true. But there are a number of different tendrils that come off of that. Different ways you can focus your energy that feed towards that nonviolent solution. Sure. So there is one way, but Alex could be focused in like,

hey, yeah, I'm not so into Bush and Kerry, but here's what I am interested in. Creating groups in your local area. Totally. Volunteering X, Y, or Z thing. And that would have been a satisfactory answer. True. Instead, it's just, hey, there's ballots and bullets.

Die-bold systems. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just. It's a rejection of the peaceful one is more what you're saying. Right, right, right. I'm just taking it as read that the peaceful one is off the table in whatever format you want.

I mean, I suppose there is one peaceful form, which is I do just want them to listen to me. I don't want to actually overthrow the government. I just want people to listen to me and sit there quietly. Yeah. I mean, so. I don't think anyone wants to admit that. No, so he's got, he's trapped in a corner

where he literally doesn't have the courage to say either of the answers that might be true. Yeah. Yep. He doesn't have the courage to answer the question, Dan. It does not. He can't handle the question. Can't handle the question.

So yeah, they end the interview, and it's not all that eventful. But what a, what a moment. Yeah, I mean, I imagine he must have really wanted to get him riled up in some way. Yeah, I think so, but he didn't do it well. He did not. I don't think, I don't think he did much of a character study

of the person he was going to be interviewing. No. And here's, here's what's interesting too. Like, I bet this appearance sold negative books for him. You know, like, there is no upside to the, but he probably didn't know that going in. But as soon as you're in there, you've got to realize, like, nobody's buying my book.

This guy, this guy, he has him, like he, he's lumbasting him from the beginning. Like, this is not, like, this is not an interview where it's like, we're going to come out the other end of this and see a spike. Yeah. And also he's probably got to realize, like, whatever negative thing could happen here also doesn't affect me. Yeah.

There's no negative consequence of this. Yeah, yeah. This is an event. This is just a thing that happened. I am, I, yeah, I will walk away from this and it will still just be a thing there. There will not be far reaching effects. This is not a butterfly that leads to a tornado.

I can choose to think about it later or not. Or no one cares. Yeah. So after, after Oliver North leaves, Alex decides, well, I've got to start rewriting this thing. Of course. Yeah, you got to get to work on that. We just had Oliver Northon and I have had probably

20 different top neocons over the years. He was the slick top. Oh, just a nice war hero. I haven't done anything wrong. I don't understand. But when I faced him down with all of the socialism and big government of Bush, he began to falter and didn't know how to respond.

Because everybody knows it's true. Conservatives, real conservatives, are hopping mad about what's happening. That was not my experience of listening to it. That was about as far away from my experiences could be gotten. Yeah. I mean, he did bring up that Bush is a big government

guy and all of this. Sure. That's, he didn't fold as much as he said. Like, I'm a guy who's in the military and I wrote a book. I didn't come here to talk about the size of government. That's not my, it's not my bailiwick. I mean, in the course of warring, I have blown things up. But I was never in like a class that taught about explosions

and how they function. Yeah. So I could say like, here's what happens from a distance if you shoot a missile. Here's what it looks like. Yeah. Got it. Yeah.

That's what I got for you. I got nothing about truck bombs. You may have got the wrong guest, Alex. I might not have done it right. I know that I'm famous and maybe you wanted to confront a famous person. And congratulations on doing that poorly. But yeah, it's fascinating how the next segment,

he has to start rewriting this. I mean, in an insane way. Yeah. Like, this is not a man who has ever wrestled with failure. He just hasn't. No. Here's instantly reality changes. Yep.

That's fascinating. So they get a call from a veteran. And who knows Oliver Norford? No. But he does threaten to kill him. OK. Oliver North, you're a criminal and we're going to hang you. And you better get ready for it.

And all of you people up there, we're coming for you. And that's the truth. I feel like Ballot Box isn't the way he's going to go. Well, well, I understand you're coming for you. Rusty. Oh, Rusty. His name is Rusty. Yeah.

Oh, a guy named Rusty is claiming that he's going to hang Oliver North. Yeah. That's just a regular old thing that happens. Yeah, you're kind of making Oliver North's point, somewhat. Yeah, that is a little bit of a, so you're saying you don't want to use the Ballot Box. Certainly not.

Oh, murder threat. Yeah, man. And also direct murder threat. Straight up direct murder threat. Those were the days. Ha. If I were Oliver North and I had just finished this interview and then I'm still maybe like tuning in to see like.

I'll just see what he says about the interview. We're going to hang you. All right. OK. All right. Not selling any books. I don't think I'm going to make the Info Wars best seller list. It's Rusty off the mailing list.

So yeah, Alex is just now that Oliver North is gone. It's just insult Oliver North time. Of course. Alley North is going to have to persevere with you and start to face down the facts. And I was going to suggest I'd be a part of, you know, sending him two or three of your videos. Yeah, I didn't know.

I didn't get his address. But getting him. Sir, sir, Oliver North knows all about the New World Order. Oliver North knows exactly what he's doing. He's making millions of dollars doing it. And it's just sad, sad that people done this to our country. Yep. So now Oliver North is a willing participant

in the New World Order for money. Sure. I mean, that's not wrong. The way Alex is. Sure. Agreed. The way he sees it, it's wrong. It's not correct.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, but that could have come up during the interview. I just don't even know how to imagine Oliver North sitting across from me without me just being like, I ran Contra. Like, I don't even know if I would ask a question. I would just say that over and over. I ran Contra, sir.

How do you like your rice? Hard or soft? Hard or soft rice. What do you like? Call Larry Nichols, buddy. What does Larry have to say about you, Ollie? Now, that I would listen to. Larry Nichols interviewing Oliver North.

That I would do. Or this interview, if Alex sneakily brought Larry in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. God, that would be good. Ollie, you know, that's not how it went down. Ollie, you know that. We did not. So I have one more clip, but I don't think I'm going to play it.

So Oliver North interviews in the first hour. And then there's some killing time. Basically, like what I presented with the like trying to recontextualize a little bit like, oh, rubbing a ball on his wound, trying to get back his feeling good about himself after that interview. And then he has an interview with a guy whose child died from suicide after they got on some meds,

after they got on some antidepressants. Oh, my God. And the whole rest of the show is a lot of bullshit about that. And I think it's not good. It's not interesting. It's stuff we've covered before. And I think I still would cover a little bit of it, because there are some points that can be rebutted here

and there. And there are some important things to bring up about the conversation about mental health and the medication stuff. But the whole time that father is there, and while I disagree with him, I feel very uncomfortable with discussing his appearance on the show, given that it's predicated on the loss of his daughter.

And I don't want to insult him. And also, at the same time, I don't want to be a human. No, I get it. It's a mess. Yeah, I mean, what I'm finding interesting, the more I think about it, is those callers. Immediately after Oliver North, 100% obviously being like, Oliver North didn't know what he was talking about.

He didn't see your videos. And it's like, how did you hear that conversation go? Like, what do you in your mind hear that would make you think, oh, well, I need to call and reinforce that Oliver North is lying about bullshit? If only Oliver North had seen the Wikipedia page for false flags, maybe then he would. This is predaria.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's strange. But I think it's partially because, I mean, I don't know, I can't generalize it to all of these callers. But that caller, when Oliver North was there, who clearly had no idea who he was, yeah, I think it was a decent chance. A lot of these people have no idea who he is and don't realize

what he's done, what his resume includes, how he's been involved in the sort of things Alex talks about all the time, the time in charge of them, in fact, and with high level conversations. If anybody knows way more than Alex's documentaries would ever be able to capture, Oliver North is high on that list of such a person. And so it is kind of comical for them to be like,

you need to watch your videos. Yeah, and then the idea, because this turns the idea of an interview on its head for me, like in my head, the guest is there. And so your job is to make the guest look good. No. And then the audience should evaluate your performance based on how well you did

making the guest look good. These people seem to think that Alex's performance is based entirely around how well he yells at somebody else. Yeah, yeah, how poorly he makes them look. Yeah, exactly. Well, but I mean, it's a losing game because Alex has a neocon on, right? And if the success outcome is him

making them look bad successfully to the audience, there is no positive outcome that involves them looking good. Yeah. Because like if they make good points and Alex is like, you know what? That's actually a pretty good point. That's thoughtful and considered it that way.

His whole idea about them like, oh, it's just socialist Trotskyites sneaking around trying to pretend to be conservative. Like all of that vitriol kind of falls apart if he has a relatively decent or even friendly thoughtful exchange with a neocon. Yeah. From the beginning has to go bad.

And that's kind of part of what I think is fascinating about it because this genre has that built into it. Yeah. But Alex can never pull it off. No, because he's bad at it. Yeah. He's astonishingly bad at doing. His own positions are so poorly thought out

that he can't even handle Oliver North and Ann Coulter. Yeah. That's ridiculous. That is sad. Yeah. And he just changes the subject all the time. Yeah. Trying to confuse and distract

whenever something's not going right. Yeah. I mean, it is funny to see him act like a child and to see him be confused because he's like, no, acting like a toddler always works. I don't understand how you're using these Jedi mind tricks where you're not looking at my keys jangled.

This is very confusing. Colonel North. I know that you have to say this about continuity of government. But if you considered, wham, wham, wham, wham, wham. Mama, titty. No, no, you know what? Now that I think about it, that's what I learned in war.

Makes a good point. So we come to the end of this. And look, I mean, the value of this day is Oliver North showed up. And that's surreal as hell. Yep. And worth it just for that, I think. Worth the price of admission, which is nothing.

Agreed. Agreed. So we'll be back on Monday with another episode of something. Indeed we will. Something or other. Who knows what it'll be. Exciting. Who knows what the future holds?

It's probably just another episode about Alex. Probably. But until then, we have a website. Indeed we do. It's KnowledgeFight.com. Yep, we're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. Is that KnowledgeFight?

Not on Blue Sky, though. Everybody talking about Blue Sky. Not on it. I'm getting off everything. I don't even read the Guardian anymore. Run to the hills. I'm done. All right.

We'll be back. But until then, I'm Leo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Skarks. Skidy dee dee dee dee dee dee dee. Oh, you know what? And now here comes the sex robots. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air.

Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a First-Dem-Caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.