Knowledge Fight - Doing Dune: Part 1

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Dan and Jordan continue their travel through the Dune films, this time taking in the much heraleded 2021 Denis Villeneuve adaptation.  Does the new cast stack up? Is the story more sensibly conveyed? Is there a single distracting extra vacuuming in the background of this one?

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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Doin' Dune with Dan. Doin' Dune. I'm Jordan. Dune is being done. I'm Dan. He's Dan. Today we' Dune. I'm Jordan. Dune is being done, I'm Dan.

He's Dan. Today we are doing part two. Sorta, not really. Not really. Well it's the second installment. Yeah, we're doing part one of part two. Exactly, it's gonna be very confusing. Of a two part series that's gonna have a third part.

Uh, I mean it has to now. Yeah, oh yeah. There might even be a fourth part. I mean who knows? It Who knows? I'll leave the sort of suspense in the air whether or not I've been gotten by the dune bug. Honestly, I want to talk about the James McAvoy one. So if I can get you that far. I will see. We'll all will be revealed by the end of this episode. Let's have a little suspense.

It is possible. But today. For those of us, for those who are just joining us, if you missed our last episode we talked about the 1984 David Lynch Dune. Indeed. And I've had a little bit more time to reflect on it. Okay. Do we have pre-Dune thoughts? I mean, I think I might have been too nice to it.

I think I was, I didn't like it and I thought it was bad but I like it less as time has gone on I'll definitely say that. That is the reverse of I think most people. What they they they grows on them? Yeah the David Lynch dude seems to have grown on people a lot more. Believe me they hated it that much. I have a suspicion that were I to get deep, deep into Dune, I might be able to revisit it and see a certain amount of charm and things that are maybe being pointed to

from deep Dune lore. Sure, sure, like, move out deep. Don't come out in the actual telling of the story in the movie as it's presented. I could see my appreciation of it growing that direction,, but that does not happen no and as a movie I just think it's terrible isn't it yeah? This is partially why I don't watch too many movies I get resentful sometimes it turns into David Lynch's dude right and that spoils all Movies for you goes on like days. Yeah, thinking about like I didn't enjoy that yeah

Yeah, I like I like the idea that one bad apple is not it's the opposite You know like if there's one bad apple never eat apples ever again. Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is probably also I mean now that we've watched the 84 dune. Yes in the first part of the new one That's what we're gonna talk about today. I have watched more movies past week Probably a long stretch, so maybe I should get back into movies well the last movie we watched was literally I would almost guarantee the last movie you watched was Elysium ooh No

Documentaries those don't count. Documentaries do not count as movies. That's a hard, fast rule that I have just invented. Okay, well then, shit. I think there has to have been something, but I don't know what. Right. I don't know what.

Well, I mean, that's interesting, because again, Elysian and these movies are only for work. It's true. But also somewhat enjoyable. Here's an irony of my media diet. Yes. Right? Yeah.

I watched All of Lost initially begrudgingly. Right. Because I wanted to be able to be part of the conversation that was happening in society. And I've taken in some media because of that. That's the reason I watched Game of Thrones. Wanted to be able to talk to people about it. Everyone wouldn't shut the fuck up about it.

They really didn't. So I wanted to join in. Somehow movies that doesn't apply. Interesting. Because there's so many movies that everyone's talking about. Everybody is talking about. Talking about what? I just heard I found myself in the rhythm of LA night. Yes

And then you got nothing all the people saying Barbie Oppenheimer that was one of the last one was talking about yeah, I didn't see either of them Yeah, that didn't draw me to the theater even though I would like to be conversant sure in these things Yeah, I mean, I think here's the problem and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be real honest with you about these movie conversations as opposed to the TV Conversations I think you probably already know what the conversation is with movies for the most part all the time But don't you? Maybe you know, but I could have guessed what the conversation was gonna be about lost and gave a throne sure sure that's fun Because it happens over weeks of time and people are always coming up with new details and shit You're supposed to keep following along and it feels

Maybe it is an unpacked or an unpacked thing a still-packed thing About like working at a movie theater. Yes makes me feel like it's not an unpacked or un unpacked thing, a still packed thing about like working at a movie theater makes me feel like it's not the same to watch a movie on a computer screen or something. Whereas watching a TV show feels completely normal on a TV screen. There might be something with that

that I just don't let myself watch Barbie or Oppenheimer on the computer screen. Yeah, that's interesting. I don't think so. Oh, it's a little I mean, you know, why not? You know, back half. If not letting it go, I'll go to the theater and see these movies. Then that's that seems like a good solution, but instead of saying like,

now fuck it, you don't need to ever watch movies. You are the one who established that one bad apple should ruin every apple forever. Sure. That's fair. I think we've gotten to the starting point though. Have we? We've watched the 2021 part one Dune from Dennis Villanueva. I was surprised it was 2021 Yeah, I guess maybe because the new one just came out fairly recently

Three years ago felt like I felt like longer ago than than when I remember that happening But time time is a writer strike my man. Yeah, time is a weird thing. They have three years ago that came out Yep, 2021. Yep. Still on a desert. Couldn't update that. Thoughts on the setting. Have they, has brown grown on you? It's very khaki.

Yeah. All the sand. It's very khaki. It's still too dry. But I mean, I guess that's part of it. You know, that's part of the ambiance and the setting and what have you. So right out of the gate.

There we go. I will say this. I thought that the story was so much better told. Yeah, yeah. And one of the reasons is because initially, the first voice you hear and the first people you hear and the perspective you hear is of Chani and the Fremen. Yes. So there was a larger entry point to that as opposed to the beginning of it being this giant monstrosity non-worm creature who is talking to an emperor. Right.

You know, it was more accessible in terms of like, oh, this story is essentially going to be about a struggle as opposed to being about some kind of political weird machinations. Although the political weird machinations are there. That element of the Fremen and those people doesn't get introduced in the 1984 one until fairly into the movie. Whereas this one, it's right at the gate. And I think it does a much better job of establishing them as a major player in this. And then also you see them and then you see the Harkonnens and you see the Atreides, Atreidi. I like that and so you see them

They're they're all introduced as entities as opposed to just be kind of like the Empire Harkinens and yeah, Atreides Yeah, it is it is like a quintessential show don't tell kind of example, you know if with your 1984 David Lynch is literally we're going to tell you the story of what's happening to catch you up, so then we can watch a movie. This one's like, hey, we're just gonna tell a story. We're gonna show you what's happening.

Did I miss it or were there not even, the emperor's not even in this? Nope, not even in it. He's not in it. Nope. The worm, non-worm, time folding thing isn't in it. Didn't even know they were there. the guy with the vacuum isn't in it Not there the vacuum guy tragic cut from the screen

I think that that scene might have been a big problem for me in the first one It might have been too much because it's so early in the movie and I think it was too much. Yeah I think it was just like guys. I I genuinely think that for brains like yours and mine at this point in 2024 with our like knowledge of movies and movie history and shit you cannot have the guy By himself mopping without us being like I can't watch this movie. It's over There needs to be eight guys mopping or no guys mopping I think it was that was a choice and it was distracting

They need to have more onset discipline with these Wrangling the extras the background people this is it's too much if there was any like they've done so many Oral histories they've done so many documentaries on what went wrong and all that shit. None of them ever really tackled what that guy was thinking and why it ruined the entire movie for everyone. Like to catch up with that cat. Absolutely. Okay.

So we've got it. We've got the setting. We've got the story opening up so far. You are, I would say, immediately hit with a sense of scale that is much better executed in 2021, obviously. Yeah. I mean, there's just some things that are essentially like, you probably couldn't have done some of this stuff in 84. So I'm trying to be as fair about that as I can. Yeah. But obviously aesthetically everything is much better.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I think what is so great about this version though right out of the gate and what he did that kind of changes, I think for a lot of people who watched it who are fans of Dune, making everything feel so big. Like that was one of the first choices that made me feel comfortable was whenever they have these gigantic spaceships showing up for no reason. You know like you've got a temple that's 7,000 feet tall but it's only so the guy can say hey here's a here's your piece of mail and then

they're off again. You know like that's one of the great thematic parts of Dune is... Everything's too big? The more important something looks, the less important it is. People are imparting meaning to something that is meaningless. But what about the worm? That looks pretty important. It looks real important. Isn't this the inverse then?

Ah, now we get into themes. This is how we we have a paradox Well, I mean it is it's more like conflict, right? So something that looks big Is unimportant and something like the worm is big and it's so it's not it doesn't need to be around Yeah, you don't need to know that a worm is nearby a worm doesn't need to be within a million miles of you The worm is so important. It is always on your mind. Mm-hmm, right? That's what Willie Nelson song was about It's all about the worm. So I do think that they did the worm way better Yeah, it was great because it was the I mean it was very jaws like yeah in terms of like they don't show you that much

Jaws like in terms of like they don't show you that much. For the first good hour and a half, two hours of the movie, you probably only see it as like a Sarlacc pit. You know, you only see it as an opening chasm in the sand. And I think that that choice is good because it retains your ability to imagine more, whereas in the first one, I just remember seeing the worm the first time, I was like, that's early. And now I I've seen the worm I know what the worm is I

know what the worm looks like right and I think it took away some of the mystery which was retained in this one yeah that's that first time you see the worm the choice of the sand just kind of shaking and then falling into fire like that is such a great way of introducing a supernatural force. You know, just as like, it's not appearing from above crash landing on you. It is something that not only can you not feel or see or anything, it could happen at any moment.

That kind of vibe, except you know, of course you can see a giant worm coming at you. There's a worm sign. Right. That whole thing. We've got worm sign. I just think of mystery science theater. How do you, yeah, I don't, totally. We've got worm sign right that whole thing Science theater, how do you? How do you feel about saving people this time

Well see here's the thing yeah, I realize Having seen it in both movies. Yes, that's a scene that is all it's very similar in both totally Whereas a lot of things are very different. It is a defining character moment for Leto. Yes. And I get that. And I think it was much better executed in this because there are multiple ships, first of all.

They deal with the idea that we can't fit everybody. We've got to get some stuff off this. Right. And so I think it was all in all much better done. It didn't leave me thinking, you only saved two of those people. Yeah, it is a massive difference just to add the one line of being like, okay, we have to remove important stuff here to bring people on. And having a voice that's like, we can't fit them all. We we we can do this this or this yeah yeah yeah that just you know takes away

the little voice in the back of your head and that that's kind of what movies should do put you at ease and like right get those questions away right to allow you to enjoy yeah and to also establish the character. Let's talk thropter. Let's do it. Thopter what ornithopter Okay, whatever not thropter bug. I get you bug thing. Yes, that's exactly what it is the dragonfly right? Yeah Yeah, I have a couple problems. What well my first thing is I think it's it looks cool. It looks great. Yeah I don't I have a respect for science fiction with the understanding that not every culture Not every universe that ever exists is going to follow the exact same line sure of technological progression

So some things will look weird and I get that yeah This is using the same ideas as like a helicopter or whatever? But just in a really dumb way. Yeah, it's really exactly the same but dumber Unless yeah, it would no sense no way they would get to that point and then stop. Yeah Yeah, this this idea would be like Okay, maybe somebody would have that because it looks cool and like maybe maybe some really rich person would have one of these Thopters yeah for like Going out over the lake or whatever but that would not be a normal means of conveyance now

No, it's like doesn't make sense it would be so hard to steer just no way It's like the steampunk like whenever hot air balloons are the in vogue mode of transmit shut up stop it. I get that it's whimsical shut up but it does look cool. Yeah no no no great. It reminds me of the AT-AT in Star Wars like in the Empire Strikes Back. When you're a kid you watch the giant lumbering thing come you're like oh that's intimidating and then as an adult you're like slow and with a low the high center of gravity. That's how you're designing this So also with that rescue scene, yeah There is an added element that I didn't feel was present in the original

Which is that there is like defective equipment that the Harkonnens have left there that is the reason that there is a disaster to begin with. Like in the original, it felt like these people were just sitting ducks. And whether Leto was flying in there to observe the spice being made or not, they would be dead. Yeah. Whereas in this, they would have been saved. There is a mechanism to get these little pods out of there. And it just didn't happen because the Harkonnens fucked them over.

Yeah. And that adds to the vibe of the whole situation. Yes. Everything that's going on makes more sense because of little things like that. Right. Now, what's great about that is, in terms of the movie and the story thematically,

what's so important is that things are always happening on purpose. So, when you're, that's like a great review. That you know why something happened and that it happened for a reason as opposed to anything happening randomly. Nothing in the story of Dune should ever be like, and then, bah, that just happened. Which it felt like a lot in the other one. In the 84 movie, it feels like this is just a story of things that are happening whereas in the actual like conception of this universe

Everything is according to plan. Mm-hmm And if it's if it doesn't go well in your plan, that's because somebody else's plan included your plan Right not that something went wrong, right? They thought this through and and follow over in advance. Totally and that makes the, just the feeling of these characters more real. They felt like more full beings as opposed to like, oh, look at that guy. Yeah.

Not that he did a terrible job or anything, but in the first one, I didn't see a character. I saw Patrick Stewart. Yeah. You know, and whereas I was like, I, young man, and whereas I was like I Even Josh Brolin, I know I know he's a celebrity You know he's an actor, but I still was like I was more like are these people are characters Yeah, and I think part of that is that like a to be to see you make sense

Yeah, it also helps cuz Josh Brolin is really great at getting so angry or like Jesus I forgot you were Josh Brolin for a second. You're like, man, just calm it down. So let's talk about that for a second. Sure, Josh Brolin. He doesn't have the silly guitar. He does not, he still plays it. Now here's something that I was flummoxed by. So in the 84 one, you're introduced to Paul,

and then in walks Dean Stockwell Patrick Stewart and weird computer The three musketeers quite literally exactly. Yeah, and it seems like they're a team Yep, and there is much more of a cohesiveness to these people who are like training Paul and and raising him up and stuff That is not that doesn't feel that way in this one the like Lido, Oscar Isaac's great. Yep, he's fantastic. He's close with the computer guy, and close with Josh Brolin, but then Dr. Huey is often his own thing.

Right. He isn't part of that trio, it doesn't feel like that at all. No. So he felt very disconnected as a character from all of it. But then maybe I missed it. Okay. You have to forgive me if I missed it. But I didn't see any tease in this

that there even was a traitor. In this movie, I didn't feel like there was almost any setup to Dr. Yui taking out Leto. No, there was no setup to that being a traitor, which is smart. Is it? It is. I mean, you know in the 84 version.

I'm conflicted about it. Okay, tell me what you got. Well, I think, I don't know, it's difficult to experience this movie without having seen the other one, obviously. Exactly. Yeah. So I don't know how, I knew that Dr. Yui was going to do that. So it wasn't like a huge surprise.

I think it was too telegraphed in the 84 one. But then it kind of felt like untelegraphed entirely here. And I don't know. I don't think it's awful. But it did feel like maybe like Baron Harkonnen wasn't even bragging about like I have a plan or anything right right right it's just at the beginning there is the the scene with the Skarsgard and Bautista Dave Bautista right and he's like when is it if not a gift you know it has that thing and

That that is kind of meant to signal We've got an idea behind all of this stuff but the the establishment when is a gift not a gift was more about the Emperor letting the Traitors take over Iraqis, it's all part of the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, but that's too granular I think for that line to be into a traitor but but see now that's the other that's the other interesting aspect of the 2021 film that I like talking about is that nobody except, I don't even know what it would be like to come into that

film not knowing a ton about Dune or having an osmosis about Dune. You know what I mean? Sure. Yeah, yeah. Like just completely blind. Yeah. How could you possibly live in this world? You'd have to be like eight? Like how could you watch that movie without any knowledge of Dune? But I think, I think it would work as a movie even if you didn't know a ton.

Which I can't say for the Lynch version. Totally. Agreed. But I do think it would also like... I don't know. It's very difficult to imagine sitting through two and a half hours and then the end of it being what it is and then being like, wait, there's a second part of this? I think if you're someone who's younger, that might be fucking annoying. It probably is, I believe that.

I'll tell you what, they did it with Across the Spider-Verse. They had that same kind of ending where it's like well See you next time what you're a movie you can't do that Well look at the clock No, no no no no you have to finish the story right I guess it was Somewhat finished in terms of there being an episodic-ness to where it left off. Sure.

I don't begrudge it that or anything. No, no, no. But it definitely did not end in a high climax. Right. Well, I mean, as we talked about in the last episode about the 84 version, that is the movie. You know, the movie, there was a half of a movie that kind of made sense and then the back half was insane Which is kind of what is making me a little worried about part two. Well, it's like everything that's insane is there right?

Right, right, right, but that's why they made the first part its own whole movie and fleshed it all out Yeah, and then they gave the second part another movie So you'll have time to breathe or figure out what's feel like they have a lot to do in that second movie. They still do. And it honestly is a completely different story. So I don't expect it to be the same beats and everything that'll be in the second one. But like, yeah. Honestly, it's just like almost night and day.

Yeah, it really is almost night and day. Yeah, it really is really is I didn't even notice honestly How different they really were until we kind of watched them back to back because my memories of both of them I watched the 2021 version in a while We're we're very different. Yeah Now it's really hard not to watch it and be like these fuckers are acting their balls off. No shit. Everyone is acting so hard They are and they are I imagine that I mean it looks like it's not that like painful No, it looks like they're having a good time. Yes, but they are working so no one is like just Smoothly entering the character everybody is beating the just smoothly entering the character.

Everybody is beating the shit out of the scenery. Yeah. But I think, I would say that is a positive. Yeah, totally. I would say. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

I mean no disrespect to Kyle McLaughlin. Paul, Tim D. Chalamet is way better. Yeah, yeah, totally. There's, I'm not saying that Colin McLaughlin's a bad actor. I'm not saying anything like that. No. But there is a depth to what Chalamet is doing that carries more conflict. He's able to convey much more of like,

I don't wanna to do this. Yeah. This sucks. There is a nice thing because sometimes with acting, it can be very easy to get caught up when people are full of shit. But there is some nice things where you're like, okay, Kyle McLaughlin, that was his first movie.

Timothée Chalamet has done a lot of work. There is a thing you can learn to do called acting. It's not all just bullshit. Yeah, and some of it is probably experience, and some of it may just be, you know, Timothy Chalamet is able to tap into something. Sure. I also felt that this might be a little bit out of left field. He was giving me a little

bit of Nicolas Cage energy. There is, oh man, I can't wait to show you part two. If you feel the Nicolas Cage energy now. I felt like there was a high potential for Nicolas Cage energy. Oh boy. Which you don't often see in an actor. The zero to 60 drive angry power shows up in part two. It's really fun to watch. How do you feel about the Bene Gesserit? Because I think... Oh, I got thoughts. There we go. This is like to me the big separation in thematic quality is how important the Bene

Gesserit being in control of everything is to the centrality of the story. So I have a couple thoughts. Go for it. Remind me about that because my first thought is aesthetic that I need to get through. Sure, of course. Nobody's got weird bald attack faces on that have like giant sharp things attached. Yeah. Every, like, it makes more sense.

They have costumes that are like distinct. Sure. But not like, oh. They look like space nuns. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is- Not weird space monster nuns yeah yeah which I

thought was a much much more sensible I mean everything was much more sensible like the the way that the human computer guys just had a little mark on their leg yeah yeah makes much more sense yeah looks better they don't look insane no it looks like part of their job as opposed to oh we find the most insane people we can and then turn them into computers You all don't have crazy fucking eyebrows So I thought that the Ben and Jenner it was much more like subtly handled and You know, it's very difficult to disambiguate from like between what is better told and what is a

Function of me seeing this after watching the first one and complaining about it to you Sure, sure, you explained some things sure, but I felt like what they do makes more sense The voice makes more sense a lot of it just makes more sense. Yeah, but I still don't understand why The spice gives them the abilities to do these things that part I still don't fucking understand right and I don't expect to I mean it is it is Better to live there than to be like it's midichlorians if that makes sense Do you know what I mean it feels like it is a little bit. There's not Midichlorians, I mean it's not not a kind of midichlorians. I mean, it's not not

a MacGuffin in every aspect. You know, it's like if, if you've made this both the motivation for every character and every plot device, then it is the ultimate MacGuffin. But I also do think they did a better job of, I think they just added one or two lines that better explained why Like spice is important to everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that interstellar travel is literally impossible without it Mm-hmm. I don't feel like I feel like that was only clear After we talked about the first one. Yeah, whereas it felt like alright I get I I can I can put that to the side and understand why everybody is so after this like expensive commodity. Yeah Yeah, or has it just felt more magical in the first one? Yeah, I'm

so what to your to saying like I don't know how much of this is what I got from this versus how much of this is What we've talked about and at the adding all of that together and then the ability to kind of put things together on your own with that information. Like how everybody is watching Dune is brought in such a very specific and unique way because there are so many different interpretations, so many different pieces of media that people have consumed

that they bring to the the story with them. So what I'm interested in with the the Bene Gesserit and not just the the like aesthetics of them is can you see a much better way of like these are the people who are not just you know like controlling Paul or telling some people what to do these are the secret society that run everything I Mean yeah, because they say it well sure I mean Paul just directly says it to his mom sure But that's you know so you get that spelled out sure sure um But yeah, I mean it didn't it wasn't really shown as much

But they do they are clear that like the benjezer it plants Beliefs and various we met we paved the way we opened a way for you on Arrakis, right? You know stuff like that. So yeah, I mean there is like it definitely does feel more like they're pulling strings and stuff So yeah, I mean it Yeah, sure. Yeah, well, so the reason that I kind of want to get into that is just the conflict of Dune and the parts of Dune and the ongoing universe of it is kind of, to me,

very closely associated with a postmodern critical theory in terms of literature because the story changes over time, the meaning changes over time, and what the author says it meant changes over time. So you don't have any like, here's what the author means and this is what it means. Here's what the author meant here, then 10 years later, this's what the author means and this is what it means. Here's what the author meant here, then 10 years later this is what the author said they meant and so on and so forth. And so with the Bene Gesserit, the question that becomes clear over time is one of agency. Who is responsible for what?

And the accounting they're in, if that makes sense. Well they're responsible for everything, right then? Right. So that's the question. Like, when you're watching this movie and looking at the thematic elements of agency, can you give somebody else the power over the Bene Gesserit is a question. Like when somebody makes a decision, do they decide it? Or is it the

result of somebody else's bullshit I mean on on some level everything is the result of someone else's bullshit sure but I'm the only times that they're like even directly involved in stuff like Paul putting his hand in the thing pain machine or whatever. And so there is no real choice there. There's a needle to his neck. I don't know. I feel like I got to see the rest of it before I really say.

Going back to everyone feeling more like characters yes yeah that does touch on agency because it did feel to be more agency right of all of the people who were involved in every aspect of the story so when you when you're saying does anyone have agency over the Ben and Jezaret maybe not in the grander picture right that isn't really shown in this first part, but everyone appears to have more. Right. Right.

It's the appearance. It's the appearance of so much. So much of this is based entirely upon appearance. It is how big can we make this spaceship just to deliver one small tiny guy. Do you know what I mean? What is the agency? Who's the small tiny guy? The guy at the very beginning, whenever Oscar Isaac is standing there, we got the legions of Atreides shoulders. Oh sure. See, I think that was like this movie's version of the guy in the worm tank. Yeah, it was. And I think it was executed much better. Yeah. Yeah a lot better. Yeah

But yeah, you were gonna say well, you know that Scene does have you know Lido? Having to make the choice of accepting this sure stewardship of Arrakis But is it a choice right? That's the thing but he's able to portray that. It did feel like there isn't really a choice, but I'm also making a choice. So that complexity of it comes across in the movie as opposed to, it just seemed like a

good business decision that someone was making in the first one. Yeah. Hey, we're going to make a lot more money if we show up here Yeah, as opposed to I think that this guy might be fucking with us Yeah, and that we have to do it, but also maybe we shouldn't also there's only one way to go Yeah And if we want to be able to make it through this there needs to be a strategy which is desert power, right? Which I thought was clunky. But whatever. It's always tough whenever you pull a line directly from a book after you've had a screenplay

written around it by people in 2020. You're pulling a line from the past, literally. So you're the guy going, we need desert power. Sounds ridiculous now. It sounds like it should have a tar lick after yeah Totally totally, but you're talking about people at the time It was like we need nuclear power like that's just a totally normal way of describing things That's fine But now it sounds weird and clunky and stupid and especially I mean just because we're on the subject Sure, the end of the movie being Paul seeing someone writing a word

Oh, yeah, and then him being like Desert power I thought that was fucking garbage terrible still fine I'm not mad at it, but that sucked if it was if it was a If it was a hair metal video, you'd be like, that's the way to end a movie. Yeah, I guess Um, I guess that's kind of typical a hand a little bit and that is that I did like this. I thought it was really good. Yeah.

I thought it was a very well made movie and enough so that even though I think that last line and what's her name? Chani. Chani's response, it's just the beginning, also sucked. That is a very annoying thing to end a movie with. I thought those were awful end lines. But I still will forgive it, because I thought it was good enough that it got me.

It is probably, I mean without question, when I watched that, I texted my dad. Like we have very few genuine deep connections, but he gave me Dune, you know, that's the part of the daddy issues there. Ah, now this is coming into focus. Totally, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Frank Herbert and daddy issues?

Nah! So, so it was like this is the version that is as close to something that's in my head as, as I think I've seen from any sci-fi translation from novel to Screen so it's kind of amazing to see Truly I can imagine I can imagine that being a pretty watershed moment of when you're in that theater. Oh Yeah, it was Yeah, man It's a big moment. Mm-hmm. It really is. It really is weird

Let me ask you cuz you're sure you're growing up as a Dune fan. Growing up as a Dune fan. And so, like, you have the books, and you like those. Yep. But really the depiction you have is the 84 David Lynch movie. I did not see the David Lynch movie. Well, yeah, I did. I mean, we watched it regularly when I was 15 or 16.

So me and a few friends of mine would watch bad movies, you know, and just it would be like our MST 3k, you know, we just riff over movies a bunch of times. Sure. And then we turned the 84 Lynch into one of the movies that we would just show random people. So we'd get to freak them out. Yeah weird freak out. Or like, oh, somebody's dating somebody new. Guess what? We're watching Dune tonight. And then it'd just be the five of us staring at this stranger being like, they tried and failed.

They tried and died. So there's not a lot of respect that you had for the... And that's got to be a pretty weird state to be in, where you have something where you have a sincere fandom for it and then the the sort of authoritative Existing depiction of it kind of sucks. What's great? You get to a point in life when something really good gets made Whoo sure it's got it. That's a lot of emotions well, I think what's great about the 84 version is that it does a really good job of puncturing any kind of sci-fi

gravitas you might have regarding Dune. Once you watch the 84 version, you're like, am I really going to get super excited about worms? I saw those worms and in my head they looked real cool, but now that I see them on the screen, I feel like maybe this is a little bit more silly and maybe I shouldn't treat it as these worms are scary. That takes away from the point of the material, as I understand it. The worms should not be silly. No.

There's a spiritual level to shy-halood. And that obviously comes through better in this one than the first one. That's the problem. It takes this thing and the thing that you're supposed to be feeling about it, you're laughing about instead. Yes. And that's kind of a difficult way to engage with the thing that you like, I imagine. It can be, but I think it's-

I'm trying to think of a parallel and I'm having a tough time. It's a better place to have a distance from. It's much better, like, as a sincere fan of something, which I don't know if I can even be, you know? Like, my form of being a sincere fan is to tinker and take it apart and see how it's made. Be a little critical. And then try and make something better out of it, or make something different, you know?

So, if you take too seriously, or at least too seriously with the religious front, you're going to wind up going crazy. Because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't. It makes enough sense. It does. I guess. Yeah.

But in the same way that the interstellar spice trade makes enough sense. I'm sure if you got granular with it. It wouldn't wouldn't hold up I mean, I I wouldn't read the orange Catholic Bible. That's what I'll say. Is that a Herbert? Yeah. Oh, well No, I mean, it's a in it's the in universe Bible. They did that the that the Bene Gesserit right did Frank Herbert write that I don't know if he wrote the whole thing So this might be fanfic. He wrote a lot of it. Oh And so I'm gonna read that okay. No All right, so as far as

Where we begin right we've got Let's get to the beginning. Yeah, I was gonna say we got the opening Basically the movie really gets going as far as the overarching plot. Real quick, just to touch back on the point that I made about the Fremen speaking first. It contextualizes everything as we don't care that the Harkonnens are leaving, who are our next oppressors going to be? And that makes the story that prism as opposed to you you fully siding if you want your first one you're supposed to fully side with the Atreides. Totally! They're the heroes!

Yeah. They're literally the best! Whereas in this one you start off on a different foot and I think it's a much better enterprise. Anyway go ahead I'm sorry. The main character's Dune. Ooh. In case you were wondering let's get let's pull it back man. Yeah man. The main character characters dune or the main characters time What okay? So how do we start the story really gets going once Paul has the gomjibar to his throat? with the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen mohairim or whatever name sure um his mom seemed a lot more conflicted sure in this version

Which made sense mm-hmm so in this in this fight in this space? Jessica is standing outside. She's not a reverend mother yet So she is just kind of somebody who was raised by the benedjah trained in a lot of the stuff that they do, and then was meant to be a breeding mother for Duke Leto. Because she takes agency in a way that she's not supposed to, she gives birth to Paul. And that's what starts everything along this whole shebang. And she seemed to have more of, again, you know the the word agency comes up

She has much more of the appearance of agency in her character in this than the other depiction Mm-hmm. I thought she was great Yeah in this movie and it felt more like she was there as opposed to out of nowhere She gets the the Freedman guy by the neck at the end or towards the end and they're like, oh you can fight Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it felt more like there was like she can actually she can stand on her own totally a bit here She's got the weirding way as opposed to having a thing around her neck like Which is still not not funny that was not miss yeah, I wasn't best Yeah, so here's something that I guess I was sort of confused about in the last one, but I didn't articulate it. Okay

She could choose if she had a son. Yes. There we go. That's something that can be done That's something they can do in the Dune world. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a cognizant choice So the Bene Gesserit are The drivers of this story in a bunch of different ways But first and foremost is they have the ability to control their You know enzymes and shit and so on and so forth their inner by all that from the spice Yeah, probably probably Great, okay, I will tell you this answers. Oh, Just be probably amount of stuff Frank Herbert knows about women in the

60s and 70s low probably very low. Okay, very low Much much to be said about the word hysteria You know, um But so she can control whether or not she gives birth to a boy or a girl They can also control whether or not she gives birth to a boy or a girl They can also control whether or not you know somebody gets disease So when you see Baron Harkonnen Baron Harkonnen is Jessica's dad What yeah, I didn't know that yeah and Jessica's mom

Wait, so the houses are already combined. Yeah, they don't even need to do the thing with sting well sting thing well so There was a thing so it's just like a spiral in breeding program that Frank Herbert's created right that is Super gross but is meant to create the super being right now I get that conceptually right now the problem there again is where we get back to postmodern critical theory is If you have a group of characters who start having a eugenics program That's what it is right if you keep writing about a eugenics program You are talking about your thoughts on the eugenics program now You are no longer just observing that a eugenics program existed. Yeah, probably. Yeah, so I mean

I didn't realize that Jessica was Harkonnen's daughter That's strange. Yeah, it puts things into I don't actually know what if I care but While we're on the subject of Harkonnen. Yeah, like this version a lot better. Oh you did. Yeah Come on you like the scars guard? I think I do. I understand he's more threatening. Yep. But he didn't pull a heart plug. Not one heart plug. No that's true. That was something that was missed. I thought that touch was an interesting form of evil and like menace. Truly really fucking crazy, right? But, having seen both versions,

the 84 one is fucking goofy as shit. It's so silly. It's a Captain Planet villain. In the moment, I could suspend disbelief enough to take him seriously as a villainous figure, but with some context, absolutely not. With a little bit of time, no. I look back on him as a goofball Maybe a murderous goofball, but right. Oh, right too silly. I I so I like the I like that or Portrayal of him because yes, he's very intimidating. I guess his plans are very very brilliant But he's also supposed to be like disease. He's he's coded syphilitic

insane because again Jessica's mom was a benedicess or it and she gave him a disease to make him do this To make him go degenerate insane because he's an awful horrible peer anyways but That whole thing that whole breeding program lasts for thousands of years and it leads to this exact moment starting our story. And that is where Paul starts to dream of Chani. That's the center of the whole idea.

You know, that whole show me the waters of your home world thing. She is as undeveloped in this movie as the first one, but I get a sense she'll be very important in the second one. Right. So it makes sense. Yeah, because you just don't know her yet. Yeah. He hasn't lived there. Whereas I still don't know her in the first one. No, no. At all. She, you know her in Blade Runner. That's where you know. The actress. Yeah, exactly. Um, uh, no. so when we go to dune and you start to see all of the spice in fact Paul that's where like I would say time is is introduces the character he also didn't end up taking a pellet of spice

no any point in this no just sort of happened naturally by being on the planet that I thought was probably better yeah it's it's there that happens later on in the books but in the in the original dune Frank Herbert was very much of the sci-fi pellet is the form of sure well in the future it's all gonna be pellet based. You know Definitely that kind of sci-fi version But whenever Paul is able to separate like where he is where he goes all Kurt Vonnegut style on us. You know he's seeing the future. He's seeing the past. He's seeing the present all at the same time

That is where kind of the the overall theme of agency is established. If you can see the future and the past and you're the only person who can make any of those things happen then you're the only person with agency. Mm-hmm. Right? I guess. I'm following you. Right. I'm not saying I agree necessarily but I'm following you. If it is because of you that Everything happens. You're the only person who can be responsible for stuff, right? So that question is first raised with Lito. I Don't have a choice. I have a choice, but I don't have a choice do I yeah, so do I have a choice you know mm-hmm? You have a choice how to respond, but you don't really have a choice well you could say

Lito could have said no and Then he would have had to start a war right which he would probably have lost right which Would have led to his people doing a thing But he also could have gone along with it and not sent Duncan Idaho to go make contact with the Fremen and set that in motion. Totally. So there are choices that there is still agency even within the lack of agency of the choice of going there.

Right. The space that it goes from there, especially once you get into Duncan's who's you don't even know but like they've Duncan is a time traveler I don't even know where to begin with Duncan we'll have to get to that next time Duncan such a great example of that other all ever-changing no this is totally what I meant when I wrote it in the past no I told no this is what I meant okay this is no no I know you might have thought that I Mamoa was better my most great just while we're on that yeah, he was he was cooler. Yeah cool, dude sword master Hmm did not feel that way in the 84 first not really no

but Before we get to go all the way with the spice We get to go all the way with the spice and the quiz outs hot rock and all that stuff We have to get past the harcon and skill and everybody right right well Let's say let's even pump the brakes a little bit more because there's another scene. That's the same As in the first one which is And I will say much better done not as loud not as loud smaller much smaller not bright As a thing it's very more difficult to see yep There was a bush in the room Paul was sort of hiding behind a hologram of a bush yep

There's a lot more that makes that not feel silly Yeah, like like a weird hot dog was floating in the middle of a room that somebody grabbed yes It would require some sort of Training ability to control one's body and then quick super movements to catch it yeah, yeah, it's so heat yeah that went down smoother Your mapes your shout out to the MAPES. Absolutely great. I think that that role is also better with the presenting of the knife and you know like

there seemed to be more import there. Yeah the Chris knife is the tooth of a sandworm. You can only draw it, every time you draw it you have to draw blood otherwise you can't put it back Oh is that why people were cutting everybody cut their hands whenever they pulled it out Mmm, gotta cut your hand put it back in you can only unsheathe it if you draw blood that makes sense Yeah, pretty cool. I guess that's what people do in the desert. I suppose fucking unnecessary it does probably It does probably Considering the amount of water there they find so important to keep always cutting their hands open is Hydrating probably a bad idea, but what are you gonna? Do yeah?

I'm not I'm not one to tell other planets how to live alright, so we got the hunger hunter seeker caught it Yeah, boom. I'm safe not safe Dr.. Yue betrayal Can't believe it can't believe the guy would betray it remember the tooth remember the tooth Which do you prefer which tooth see do you prefer? I think it's obvious I think this one was better and then I got kind of worried because I thought That well actually I think it was better done that like

Everyone in the room died But Baron Harkin didn't because he put up his shield Yeah So that makes sense as opposed to like in the first one where I was like super targeted poison It was really crazy But I was a little bit worried that he was gonna have all the blisters and shit after that I thought like oh, this is how that's going to happen. Yeah, I didn't want to look at it So I'm glad that that didn't happen

Yeah, I thought that scene was better better done. Yeah, chomp chomp it is it is kind of amazing the like It is crazy both ways It is crazy both ways. It's crazy both ways to have a guy just suddenly bite down a tooth and then spread poison all over everywhere and then you see a guy floating up in the ceiling going, I'm alive. I'm alive. I'm alive. I think if someone floats and you don't understand really why he does, it's always going to be a little silly. Yeah, that's fair. Cause that part was still visually a little bit silly. Yeah. the idea is he's he's gross he can't walk you know

he's fat and his body is diseased and he can't you know so he's got he's got suspension things right that allow no one else can float other people float that's actually true yeah the Sardaukar yeah they are me they sort of float they're pretty scary in this right a little bit Yeah, I mean sure I'm told they're supposed to be scary. They're scared. Everyone's fucking scary. Everyone's killing each other Everybody is a lot scarier in this. Yeah a lot less less silly goofball shit But yeah, so Baron Harkin ins got is no sting no sting part two gives us a sting Okay, yeah, but we don gives us a sting okay yeah but

we don't get a sting in part one we just got Dave Bautista being the other guy yeah the thick thick are they both his nephew yep okay but East is great that pro wrestler I know a bit about him do you yep what do you know about him he was in a stable called evolution, okay along with Ric Flair Okay, triple H. Really Randy Orton He's old he's old he was a grandpa back then I don't even know how old I am me and my buddy Nicky gifts I call him the wrestling grandpa Cuz he was a I don't know

He's old. He's old people say he's the best wrestler turned actor What's your opinion? I have a limited sample size of things I've seen him in but he was good in this limited role. How about Hulk Hogan is mr. Nanny Hulk Hogan Terry Bolia sucks, okay sucks. Yeah, that's definitely true totally yeah Terry Bolia sucks, okay sucks. Yeah, that's definitely true totally yeah Macho man Randy Savage was great in spider-man spider-man he was bonesaw was ready. He was ready so he got that yeah Jesse the the body the mind of Ventura has been great in portraying himself as a conspiracy dipshit yeah, yeah, yeah

Did a really great handshake. You wrote your favorite book? Uh. Brr brr brr brr, right. How do you pronounce it without laughing? Brr brr brr brr. Brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr brr br Shit gets a little bit deeper. Yeah, because the WWE used to put out like movies starring That is true and some of those are atrocious Yeah, so you have things with like Dean Ambrose in them and Kane. Yeah, I think Kane did a Christmas movie Maybe the Undertaker is in that too. I'm not sure but he did a Christmas. We might have to watch all of those

Wait came the at the person or the character Kane was in a person who is also like the mayor Right now. Yeah, Glenn Jacobs Glenn Jacobs as Kane in a Christmas movie. I believe so. Yeah, okay What is I might be making all of this up. He feel about Christmas. He hates it. I It's like I I know Garfield was not a fan of Christmas. That makes sense. I don't know how Kane might feel about Christmas. Hmm, I So when you get back to the wrestler question, right the Rock is Fine, I think that's right. He counts as an actor and a wrestler Yeah, I think he might not have as much range and charm as people initially thought not have as much range and charm as people initially thought. Like, I think he was real good out of the gate.

And then maybe he's fizzled a little bit. And then John Cena is fantastic in the ways that he can be used in. He has a good comic sensibility about himself. He never takes himself too seriously. He's believable enough as an action star, So he's good in like the fast movies sure I Don't know I would say if Batista is as good as everyone says he is then him and John Cena are probably up there in The top echelon yeah rock a little bit below

I'm poking way down. Oh boy on the bottom if under the ground yeah, yeah, yeah, no holds barred I hadn't thought about John Cena too much because John Cena is a bit of a weird one in terms of being an actor Why is he's just John Cena in different ways? Yeah, but I mean not even like different ways just like here's John Cena if John Cena was doing this mm-hmm And then you go bad John Cena John Cena if John Cena was doing this mm-hmm, and then you go bad John Cena Do it I think I've conflated things okay? I just want to make a quick clarification because I've looked this up all right I believe Kane was in a movie called see no evil which was a horror movie, but was maybe not a Christmas movie I

Think there was a Christmas movie somewhere. Oh my god Kane saves Christmas mm-hmm. He's from hell right No, canonically where is he from no not's from hell, right? No. Canonically, where is he from? He's not just from like Georgia. So the Undertaker and Cain are brothers. Right. And initially Undertaker said that Cain had set their childhood home on fire and it burned down and killed their parents and he died in the fire as well. That's right.

I remember that now. Then Paul Bearer, who maybe was supposed to be dead. I came back and he found Kane Uh-huh, and then it turned out to be the undertaker had burned down their families home or something. Okay, so Boy the lore gets messy. Yeah, I mean I think he was just dead He was supposed to be dead and then I just pulled up a list of the films produced by the WWE And then I just pulled up a list of the films produced by the WWE How many Christmas movies has the WWE made so we've got the scorpion king sure that's definitely the rock Yeah, the rundown another rock all right going hard with the rock initially walking tall also Oh, I remember walking tall am I thinking of I have no idea hmm

dune part 2 Jingle all the way to jingle all the way to that's not what I'm thinking of But that apparently featured wrestler Santino Marella, I like that I like that idea of WWE just taking other movies and then adding just predator six Yeah, that's fun, but Batista is good anyway enjoyed him back at it. Yeah. All right so Once we get to the betrayal it is of you know full speed ahead Jake and Paul or not Jake and Paul Jessica and Paul you're thinking of Jake Paul Jake Paul completely different guy Jessica Paul sent into the

Into the wilderness. Yeah Where do you think? The next movie is gonna differ from 84 boy. I hope in a lot of ways in a lot of ways like what if if anything Do you want from the 84 version to come back into part two? Well, that's something I was actually thinking about. It was like, I think I've already said quite a bit that the depictions of things were better in this one. Totally. Especially when there is one-to-one comparisons, like the Lido saving scene, the hunter-seeker,

like those things are just demonstrably better in this version. I was trying to think, like, is there anything that is demonstrably better in the old version? I can't think of anything. I can't think of anything. No. Oh boy. Um, I mean, this does not have Patrick Stewart in it. And I can think of very few times where I don't want Patrick Stewart involved. He's enjoyable and that is fine, but it's not necessary.

Oh, sorry, Pat. Sorry. We got Brolin. We got Brolin. We're going to make do. Brolin did a great job. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Okay. Oh, I did have one question. Sure. So this might not be something that's within your pay grade to answer for me. Okay. This might not be something that's within your pay grade to answer for me. I'm to understand that there's no computers and there are just people computers. And this, you told me, this was not something I got from the movies. There was like AI rose up and they had to destroy all of the computers in a jihad. Right?

Yes. This happened. Yes. Right? Yes. This happened. Yes. So the year that we're given, 11,000. Yeah, there's way up there. Something along those lines. So that begins with the Butlerian Jihad.

Okay. All right. That was a while back. People probably around our time made AI. AI was great. Enslaved all of us because it's smarter than we are. Real bummer. Then some people had a whole Joan of Arc moment. Frank Herbert's son wrote a bad book about it. Maybe more than one. And so then they were like, hey, no more machines,

no more thinking machines. Is this an overcorrection? Not important. No one can ever make machines again. Uh, and then they genetically, uh, you know, may speak essentially juice drinking robot. Essentially part of the dune universe is whether or not epigenetics can be forced by just torturing people. If you torture somebody enough in the dune universe, or specifically in Atreides or main character shield of any kind, if you torture them enough, they will get magic powers. That is an important aspect of the Dune-iverse. You got to torture people. And then they can become robot people.

And then they can become robot people. So now this is all good and well. I mean, it's not. But fine. Yeah. There are definitely machines and they would require processing power. Sure. So something has changed. They're not thinking machines though. Some of them would have to be. They don't have to be thinking machines. They would. They're probably not. They are. They are probably not. They have to in order to do the things that they're doing in the movie. They are. They are probably not. They have to in order to do the things that they're doing in the movie. They are. These machines are not sophisticated enough. The distinction would be automatic ice cream maker versus hand crank.

Right. Everything would have to be hand crank ice cream machines in this world and it is not. Yeah. So there's a there's a plot hole there. Man, you don't even know about the TILAX yet. No, I don't know anything about it. You don't even know a there's a plot hole there. Man. You don't even know about the Tly lacks yet. No I don't know. You know you don't even know that there's a whole planet of people. I don't know if you've caught on to a lot of sci fi from this time period or not but a planet should just be called a everybody from here is the same. Right. Right. You know. So everybody from Tly lacks is a Tly lacks who and they are the people who make all the machines for everybody and they're totally not thinking machines Nobody's making a thinking machine. That would be crazy. Did Herbert Sun write another book about this? They're thinking machines. Yeah. Yeah I mean, it's it's it's

Picking it's nitpicking a little bit But it was something I was like wait the whole premise of this is supposed to you've set a limitation for the machinery That's supposed to exist in this universe and you're flagrantly breaking see that's another aspect of Where we are in the story in in how things change in that critical theory That's gonna change it always changes the rule any established rule Has to be an established rule, right? Because if you break it, then there's no point in me believing anything that you have to say.

So whenever you say, you know, like, okay, Dr. Yu is an Imperial Sook doctor, conditioned, they cannot break your trust, that's the whole purpose, that's the guy who betrays you, then what you're telling me is either you cannot be trusted as an author. There's unreliable rule sets. On purpose. Yeah. Or not on purpose. Which you hope it's the prior.

Right. But then you have to find a reason for the prior. Right, and then it doesn't matter eventually, if it changes. So if you got everything right, if you've got it, and he says he did it on purpose and all this, and this is the purpose, and then 10 years later, well, that's not why he did it. And then you write another book with different thoughts on it.

So then you can no longer trust him, and his thoughts on his own book don't really fucking matter anymore, do they? No, because they're the public's. Right. They're the public's right there the people's you only have the form of communication Is not what the author says about the book it is the book You can only communicate with the book not with the author or what they say they think about the book sure that kind of thing And in this case the movie right because I haven't read the book right

The source material yeah, yeah that kind of thing um one thing I thought also another little thing was that I thought it was much more Understandable that there was a population on Arrakis yeah in this then in the 84 one There actually seemed to be people like the pilgrims at the gate and stuff like that Yeah, yeah, where is it the other one it felt like there's just these Fremen warrior people seemed to be people like the pilgrims at the gate and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas in the other one, it felt like there's just these Fremen warrior people that didn't feel like a full population of people, whereas this did. That kind of felt better. The siege scenes and the explanation of the water of life at the siege table

Do you remember whenever he was like no one would ever drink of this? Oh, no, they haven't been there yet shit Well, I spoiler no no in the 84 version whenever they go to yeah. Yeah, I remember that Yeah, and he's standing there and he's speaking to the what are supposed to be, you know millions of people or whatever You don't get that scale at all They try they try to do as best as you can in 84 version of giving that scale, but I don't think it plays whatsoever. In this and in part two, you're gonna get a much better view of the Fremen people, and it's really, really well done. I appreciate the, I really, really like this.

Yeah, it felt more of a fuller Body of people then then in the other one with the other one just felt like kind of plot device Oh, yep. Yep, and then they forced us to stop the movie Yeah So like the other thing too that you really can feel more in this one is so in the in the first movie I More in this one is so in the in the first movie. I think you could be forgiven if you get to the end and You think well if they just let the Atreides run the planet everything would have been good Yeah, Paul would have been a good ruler, right?

And then there you know because that's kind of what it feels like. Yeah in the Lynch version Yeah, whereas in this version, it doesn't really feel that way. It feels like Leto is a benevolent, good person as a whole, as evidenced by him valuing human life over this commodity. But it doesn't feel like he would actually represent the interests of the people indigenous to Arrakis. He would be more willing to work with them in some kind of an alliance, but he seems like the ideas of what they're interested in is entirely foreign to him. And so like there's this, there's the idea that he's being presented as a benevolent choice, but he is not really. Whereas that's absent in the first

one. The first one is just a tragedy of like, oh, if only it had worked out, Paul would have brought rain eventually. It's just he decided to go this route because the Harkonnens fucked him over. And that I think is a much more complicated and interesting story. Right, right. It is, what I find interesting about that observation so much is that this is the era where we begin to get the intergalactic space treaties are everything kind of trope.

You know, when we deal with sci-fi, or you know, the space weirdos now on Carrie, we're always talking about intergalactic space treaties. The germination of that is actually the morality question. The good versus evil guys in all of these hard sci-fi things are people who honor space treaties or who break space treaties. And it is not as complicated as they would... it's like a way of doing a very simple good versus evil With a false layer of complication on top of it

You know, this is the good guy the good guy drinks from this well the bad guy drinks from this well, right? You know, it is that exact same thing, but it gives you this kind of bigger. Oh, it's more important because it's not Just you know water or something like that more important because it's not just water or something like that. But that again is part of that. The more important something appears, the less important it actually is throughout the whole cosmology of the piece, if you will. Sure. I think it has a fuller perspective for sure.

And I appreciate that. And it made it moreer perspective for sure. Yeah. And I appreciate that. And it made it more enjoyable as a watch. Yes. Then I think we've got one thing to do. No. What? Well, I'm not done yet. Oh, you're not done yet?

I had another thought I needed to throw at you. Oh, give me one more thought. The one thing that stuck out. OK. Then I was like, what the fuck is going on here? All right. So the Atreides show up on Arrakis and they have bagpipes So that threw me off we're in the year 11,000 or whatever we're way in the future

Yeah, and bagpipes are what has stood the test of time as a what did you expect? No, what did you expect? I don't know! What did you expect? A guitar? A harp? No! The bagpipe. The bagpipe exists throughout all space-time. You gotta remember something, right?

Space-time is a thing. It's one thing. It's not like we live in space and time. We are in space-time. Well, here's... And bagpipes... Shut up. Shut up. Here's the problem....are the beginning and the end in space-time. Well, here's here's and bagpipes. Shut up. Shut up. Here's the problem at the beginning

All right the end Those bagpipes are exactly the same as our universe's earth bagpipes Yeah, so there is an implication that there is probably some sort of a lineage that goes from those bagpipes to the people who are playing the fanfare for the arrival at Arrakis. Of course now Here's where I get fucked up about that. Where? You know, it exists at the same time as bagpipes to the people who are playing the fanfare for the arrival at Arrakis. Of course! Now, here's where I get fucked up about that. Where? You know what exists at the same time as bagpipes? What?

Fucking helicopters. That's true. So we end up with dragonfly machines in bagpipes in this universe. It doesn't make sense! It's infuriating. If you're gonna have independent inventions, you can't also have the same inventions with even less changes, right? I would want a variation of a bagpipe or something like that You know like the idea of in this multiverse we can change anything any little aspect can be changed

But let me tell you something the guy who invented the bagpipes Nailed it that is the man who stays and it's like point in the universe to to quote Ryan Reynolds character in Blade Trinity Just like a great white shark. He's never had to evolve Yeah, it was born perfect the bagpipe is never had to evolve into being a dragonfly bullshit It's fine it was just a little bit distracted. Yeah, I don't know It's not quite one guy vacuuming a giant pool of slime by himself. No, it's not that and it sounds good So I mean like ultimately the effect was was good. It just was like that's very it felt anachronistic That's what the future can do. It can make a bagpipe sound good.

I like a bagpipe. It took tens of thousands of years to get there. You don't like a bagpipe? I mean a bagpipe can be elsewhere. Wow. I've never been like, oh man, I miss bagpipes. If I lived in the future and somebody was bringing a bagpipe up up my reaction would be like we didn't get helicopters But bagpipes stuck around right now some people complain that the doors didn't have a bass player in it

That's not my complaint. No my complaint no bag no bagpipes. Yep. What else could have been approved with baby? It's about everything sure really Rolling Stones sure Bob Dylan also sprock there is our athustra uh-huh I think Chicago the band Chicago the band We've got plenty of bagpipes here yeah our cops love bagpipes and shit don't think the band America sure Europe the country in America mm-hmm all these not the country of America mm-hmm all these down the country of Europe could have been improved could have been a little bit of bagpipe absolutely trying to think there's any other thoughts that I had just generally speaking mm-hmm the

shield still look bad sure but better I mean that's just a technological thing. Yeah. Yeah, the problem with the shield is it is so much a Narrative device it exists purely because if it doesn't exist then so much of the story can't happen You know the only reason that I mean honestly the only reason that this fight is theoretically happening between the Emperor and Lido is because of hand-to-hand combat Ledo trained troops with Jessica's benedicesser at skills and they're good and that means that in order for this whole story To happen there has to be a reason that hand-to-hand combat is more important than just having a spaceship that suits a giant laser At some guy right once you have spaceships with giant lasers, who needs to fucking sword fight? Now, that being said...

Sword fighting's cool. Well, when they take over, when there's the attack on the Atreides, the betrayal and all that, there are a lot of bombs. Yep. So... Bombs are still chill. Okay. You still shoot guns. Rail guns. You just throw a rock from space that it blows up the whole fucking planet hmm So it's difficult to like talk about the whole plot because we've only seen the first part right you know what I mean, right, but

The experience of the first one the 84 one mm-hmm was I came away from it thinking like back I've seen it. Yeah, okay You did it whereas I came away from this thinking like I'm gonna watch the next part And then you know I did I did I'm not gonna say I'm looking forward to watching I am I am I'm not saying I'm as in as you certainly sure but Definitely, I got more. Yeah of it you all I will tell you this You're not gonna make it to children of doom my friend. It's just not gonna happen. That's a challenge

That's I hey, I I wish you the best I wish everybody who attempts children of doing the best and I wish everybody who makes it all the way to the end I wish everybody who attempts children of doing the best, and I wish everybody who makes it all the way to the end a happy new year. Okay, well the gauntlet has been laid down. I would suggest just skipping to God Emperor. Okay. You'll get it.

So, yeah, good stuff. Yep, I think, let me ask you a question. What expectation do you have for part two? Like, what do you think is something that is going to happen for sure that's going to be cool? I mean, obviously, Paul's gotta ride the worm, and that's probably a big moment. It's gonna be a big moment.

Sure. Yeah, that's something that I think is probably, that's what sticks out the most to me. I mean, obviously, the end of the movie, of this first part, he sees someone riding a worm. Somebody's riding a worm. out the most to me. Yeah, I mean obviously the end of the movie of this first part He sees someone riding a word. He's right. It looks he looks pretty into it pretty so Obviously, that's if you're ending on that note, then there's gonna be there's gonna be a word Yeah, there's gonna be a worm riding scene

I'm having a lot of difficulty thinking about what the fuck's gonna happen in the second one because quite frankly as I understand it Structurally this first one was about the first part of the first movie yeah and then the second person be the second part and then she was insane yeah so I I don't want to imagine I just want to just want to see own experience it all right ever happens happens all right it'll obviously be different yes and that's good it'll be better to talk about it the same but extended. I think I'd have a problem with that. I think it'll be interesting because I think I will. Well, I'll be interested to find out what context you get about the other

movie from this movie and then what's different. You know, lots of different. I think that's essentially the whole point of us talking about sure and then once I've seen that We'll have a better ability to try and see if there are little pieces of Alex lore That's it can be teased out you got it So that I guess will be next time I think that's the idea indeed sweet. Yeah, well You've got me hooked a little. I've been duned. You've been, we're not gonna, you've duned it.

I've enjoyed a piece of dune media. That is the best that any of us can hope for. Yeah, at the end of the day. That's pretty good. Alright, then we'll see you next week. Yeah, definitely. Woo yeah woo yeah woo! And now here comes the sex robots.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.