Lateral with Tom Scott - 118: The wrong way wheel

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

Karen Kavett, Francis Heaney and Sam Meeps face questions about corporate coincidences, language lapses and overfamiliar organists. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Jagannath, Yong, Jeff, Azure Fennec, Scott O'Brien, Sangwang. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What type of products are you almost certain to find at a modern supermarket and a Disney store? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott and this is Lateral. Bonjour mes amis et bienvenue à Lateral. Sorry, I really should stop there. I come out in a rash if I say French numbers. I've got a really bad huite allergy. I appreciate Franca's laugh and Sam's entirely silent laugh there, which just—

You can't hear me, that's all. I was laughing boisterously. Just me more. Hoping that joke sank without trace, first of all we have Puzzle Writer and Editor Extraordinaire from many puzzle books, including Lateral's Puzzle Book. You edited that. And from AVCX we have Francis Heaney. Hello, delighted to be here.

Welcome back to the show. How was it first time round? Oh, it was great. I, you know, I hoped to not utterly embarrass myself as someone who has just edited a hundred lateral thinking questions, hopefully not be bad at them. I think I did alright. I think I did fine. You have quite a long history of writing puzzles and questions. What's the most sort of fun project you've worked on for something like that? Fun and torment sort of go hand in hand. I had a very great time writing my last book in collaboration with my friend Scott Weiss. It was called Escape Room Logic Puzzles.

And that was sort of multi-puzzle extravaganzas inspired by escape rooms that sort of don't try to recreate an escape room, but are sort of around the concept of it. And it was written in a sort of, don't try to recreate an escape room, but sort of around the concept of it. And it was written in a sort of fugue state over the course of a month. You know, like, I enjoyed it a lot, but I also didn't see the world outside the small box around my computer. Yeah, I know that feeling. Well, thank you for coming out of that box and being here today.

Next up, longing to nerf any difficult questions today, we have anime maker and cosplayer Sam Meeps. Welcome back to Lateral. Hi, happy to be back. What's the big project you've had that you've found has been the most fun to work on or the most rewarding? So I once recreated a door that was in an anime movie that I loved. It's a magical door, it's not like a regular door, but I transformed my office door to look just like that So I once recreated a door that was in an anime movie that I loved.

It's a magical door, it's not like a regular door, but I transformed my office door to look just like that and I made fake-looking bricks out of foam because I didn't want to use real bricks, they were going to be really heavy. That makes sense. How did you find Lateral on your first show? I feel like I am in a room with three Master Puzzle people, and I'm here representing the laymen so... We did drop you in at the deep end there.

Well, thank you very much for returning. The last of the Puzzle group here today. I'm wishing that these French puns will cease immediately. We have from the channel Karen Puzzles. Wow, actual hiding hands there, I think, from someone. Karen, how are you doing? Um, Tom, I need to tell you that I listen to this podcast every Friday. It's like my Friday treat to do this podcast with, like, a fun puzzle.

So I think I might be the most prepared guest you've ever had, because I've heard every single episode. Oh, now the trouble is you've set the expectations so high now. I mean, I'm not saying I'm good at the show, but I have heard a lot of questions. Not necessarily good, just very prepared. That is all anyone could hope for on this show. Well, before we go into the quiz itself, please let me allay any fears.

Let's go. Here's question one. Okay, any fears? Let's go. Here's question one. Globally, 84 are blue, 68 are red, 40 are green, and 7 are black. What are they? I'll say that again. Globally, 84 are blue, 68 are red, 40 are green, and 7 are black. What are they?

It's a four-colour map situation. Maybe flags? But there's a lot more ones that have black in them, I would think, than seven. Maybe it's the dominant colour of country flags. Yeah, globally also, it certainly got me thinking about countries as well. But, um... Are they the only colours represented? I'm going to keep my mouth shut. You all are on the right tracks here.

Blue, green, red and black. They don't take individual shades into account, but those are the closest big colour names. I'm sure there's a formal colour term for that. I mean, what are some things that every country has an official one of, like, visually? I mean, you have a flag, you would have maybe an official… A bird, an official bird. Bird, yeah. Whoa.

I've been watching too much GeoGuessr. I'm thinking license plates. That's not bad. Road signs? Oh, there's all sorts of colours of road signs. Maybe stop signs, like a specific kind of road sign. I feel like we would have known if there were blue stop signs somewhere in the world. I think there's like one or two countries that pick different colours for that, but they're very few and far between.

I mean, the majority are blue and red, and then some green. And a bare handful of black. You've clued into the fact that it's countries very early on. I think the question rights were hoping you'd add all those up and get nearly 200 and be like, oh, it's countries, but you just locked into that straight away. So yes, there is one of these per major country or territory. There's going to be all sorts of exceptions, I know, but that's what we're looking for. Is it Olympic-related?

Yeah, is it it Olympic-related? Yeah, is it like sports-related? Because I feel like those are four of the five Olympic colors, right? Those are such dominant primary colors. It's the ink you would use the most of if you were printing their flag. Not to do with flags, and maybe ink is the wrong word, maybe it's dye or something like that. Or, well actually, RGB would be colours on a screen and not dyes, because dyes would be CMYK.

Definitely a physical object. Can you tell us what colour a big, certain country is, or would that give it away? Well, to a group of Americans, if I say the UK changed theirs in 2020 and it was quite a big deal... Oh. Oh! Oh, that did give it away, actually. Oh wait, oh, I think I know it, I think I know it. That's fine. It was the last hint on my card. It's the one that's designed to do that. Passports. Passport colours. What were you thinking, Karen?

Yeah, I got it. Passport colours. Yes. This is the passport colours of the world. 199 major passport-issuing countries and territories are 84 are blue, 68 are red, 40 are green, and 7 are black. And since 2020, the UK has moved to a navy blue that is very, very close to black, as a result of Brexit. So who are the seven Goth countries? Ha ha ha! I mean, the UK is nearly there, to be honest. I think New Zealand is one of them, because their national colours are black and white.

Beyond that, couldn't tell you. What's stopping a country from making their passport pink? As far as I know, absolutely nothing. Oh my god, we've got to get on this. Yeah, why wasn't that done as part of the Barbie movie? I would love a fuchsia passport. Bring it. Francis, it is over to you for the next question. I would love a fuchsia passport. Bring it.

Francis, it is over to you for the next question. All right. This question has been sent in by Azure Fennec. When over 10 billion Statue of Liberty stamps were released in 2010, it was regarded as one of the largest misprints in history. What was the error, and why was the US Postal Service successfully sued by another party? One more time. When over 10 billion Statue of Liberty stamps were released in 2010, it was regarded as one of the largest misprints in history. What was the error, and why was the US Postal Service successfully sued by another party?

I remember this news story, I've got to sit out. Sam and Karen, this one's on you. Oh boy. My brain's firstly thinking, was there something wrong with the image or with the words on it? Yeah, how much do we need to know about the Statue of Liberty? I don't think Statue of Liberty trivia will be relevant. It was the wrong shade of green. Did it have the wrong price printed on it? BG No, the Postal Service relevant information was perfectly fine.

STACEY I feel like the phrasing, sued by another party, has to be the key here. If we can figure out who was suing them, I think we would probably be close to the answer. BF Or even just why one might get sued. Yeah. STACEY Was it – I mean, this isn't really lateral, but was it like somebody's illustration of the Statue of Liberty that they didn't have the rights to use?

BF It is very close, but not exactly it. The illustration was made by the US Postal Service for their stamp. Did they copy someone else's illustration, but they didn't realize until later on that the artist took a little too much inspiration from someone else's artwork? Again, it's very close, but there is a key detail that is very important. Did they accidentally repeat a previous design that they've used? No, they hadn't used it before because if they had, there would have been trouble then too.

In the question, I wrote down the word misprint. So was the illustration itself okay, but it was printed incorrectly in some way? No, there wasn't any misprint. Well, I mean, so it said it was regarded as one of the largest misprints, but nothing went wrong in the printing process. It was just a thing that they shouldn't have printed. Is the Statue of Liberty under copyright? Like, can you not sell photos of it? Like, you can't sell photos of the Eiffel Tower

Statue of Liberty is not under copyright I believe I believe the Statue of Liberty is not a copyrighted thing but I can see why hesitating on that one Francis because I know there there's something about the Eiffel Tower Maybe with like the lights that are on it, where you can't distribute images of it without permission. Is that similar? Yes.

Under French law, the lighting design at night on the Eiffel Tower is copyrighted. So if you film that, you need to get a license. Even though it's just being blasted out to all of Paris, you need to get a license for the lighting design. The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor is public domain now. Yeah, I mean, I'm from New Jersey, so I've seen the Statue of Liberty many times, and I don't think I'd heard about any kind of copyright issue surrounding it. So they had based the image on the stamp from a stock photo. So did the photographer of the stock photo sue because of the composition was this person's? I believe they had licensed the stock photo under normal licensing methods and therefore they would not get sued by the photographer because the photographer would be compensated

by the stock photo agency. But they were sued successfully by somebody. So who else would sue? Who else is involved here? Yeah, like who designed the Statue of Liberty? So if they got it from a stock photo, but they bought the stock photo, so they had the rights to use that image and that composition. And they illustrated, I would think, essentially on top of it to sort of stylize the photo into something

that could be used in a stamp. A problem is not jumping out at me. Well, so there was an error involved in the choice of the photo. It was a mistake made. Was it an edited photo? Did the photographer manipulate the photo in some way that they didn't realize when they illustrated on top of it? Change the color or something?

No. Yeah, put a different woman's face on her face. How might someone be confused by the Statue of Liberty? What errors could one make if you were looking at it? Oh my gosh, wait, wait. I think I might know this. Hang on. Was it a stock photo of the replica in Las Vegas?

Yes. Different Statue of Liberty? Dead on. It was based on an image of a replica of the Statue of Liberty from Las Vegas and the person who sued was? Las Vegas? Not Las Vegas, but the- The mayor?

Yeah, the sculptor sued. Oh, okay. Robert Davidson, the sculptor of the Las Vegas version, argued that he had changed the face significantly from the original by Frederic Auguste Ptholdi. Am I pronouncing that right? I have no idea. And the court agreed saying that the 3% of stamps that are never used because they are either lost or in the hands of collectors represented complete profit for the US Postal Service and they awarded Davidson a royalty of 5% plus damages, which came to $3.5 million.

So yes, it was 2010. They issued 10.5 billion stamps showing a close-up of the face of the Statue of Liberty. But due to an error identified by a stock photo agency the next year, they discovered the error. Thank you to Scott O'Brien for this next question. The world's largest electric vehicle is a 110-ton dump truck in Biel, Switzerland. It never has to be recharged, even by solar panels. How is that possible? I'll say that one more time. The world's largest electric vehicle is a 110-ton dump truck in Biel, Switzerland. It never has to be recharged, even by solar panels. How is that possible?

Because Switzerland's so small, it just doesn't have to go anywhere, so it's fine. It's fine where it is. Because it's powered by hamsters running around in a wheel. Is it just always connected to the grid? Like a really long power cable? Because you know how some street cars have an antenna that attaches to a power cable? Is this the same thing except it's a dump truck?

It's a cable dump truck. I once tried to film this vehicle and was turned down, or just didn't get a reply for them. I did once film a mains-powered ferry that just goes over a small straight and they just have an enormous cable reel on it and it's just plugged in at one end. I suspect this question would be better phrased as the world's largest battery electric vehicle. Because technically a train is an electric vehicle if it's got electrification coming in. So this is the largest battery electric vehicle.

So it must self-charge in some fashion, I guess, if it doesn't need to rely on external sources. Is the weight of what it's carrying around helping to create that charge somehow? Like, you put it on one side of a seesaw and then when it tips over that creates, it helps create a charge, I don't know. Not exactly, but you're not a million miles away. Only 999,000. Going along with what Francis said, I wonder if the truck itself is carrying something that is generating the power that it needs?

Again, not a million miles away, but you have just described a petrol car there. Like, technically not wrong, but also that definition does just include gasoline vehicles. So, I mean, obviously it's not a perpetual motion machine, so it's not just a... Yeah, I think we would have heard about if this broke all the laws of physics. Sam, I don't want to be too rude about that idea. Not entirely wrong. But what other ways can you charge a battery? Does it just carry batteries?

Is it a dump truck that all it does is carry batteries so each time it gets a new battery because it's just got to get a new battery. It's just transporting batteries and they plug one of them in. It is transporting something. I know that sounds obvious from dump truck, but yeah, you're right. It's transporting something, not fuel. Is it transporting windmills? Yeah, I mean, is there some kind of waste product that gets transported that can also be used as a type of fuel or as something that could help charge a battery? Now you're getting closer.

What terrain is Switzerland famous for? Didn't they film the Sound of Music there? So it's known for the field where they filmed the Sound of Music. It's just, uh... It just, uh, coasts and the wheels create some energy? Yes. There's a key bit you haven't got from there. Uh... Because that would be perpetual motion, right?

If it's just... Indeed. Yeah. There's got to be some losses in the system somewhere. Is it some material that, when it gets jostled about, it creates electricity? Oh, uh... Again, when you look back on this question, you'll be like, oh, that's almost true. But no, the material is just ore. It's just crushed up rocks. But metal rocks can spark when they hit each other, I suppose.

Turning little fires in the back. Just got nothing but flint in there. Francis, when you were talking about building up charge on the way down, what were you meaning there? What I was meaning was a very loose understanding of how anything works electrically, because I'm a very frivolous person and I don't understand engineering or physics. Yeah. So, you know, I'm just thinking of, you know, like a turbine, doing whatever it is turbines do or... Has anyone here driven electric cars?

I don't have a car. Maybe I should mention that. I don't drive, period. I don't have a driver's license. Yeah, you're talking to three non-drivers, apparently. I live in New York City and that's why. Alright, so the term you're looking for, Francis, is regenerative braking. When someone breaks an electric car, that can send power back to the battery. It can pull power out of the wheels, not by friction, but by pulling power. So you can charge a battery going downhill.

But obviously you can't... You aren't going to end up with more than you started with. No you're not. Certainly. You can just extend your battery life. Unless... something about where this is used. Does this have something to do with sea levels? I feel like all of these questions have to do with the altitude.

Yeah, altitude's a good keyword here. Not overall, but in terms of what the truck's doing. So... is this something that would only work in Switzerland? On that kind of terrain? Would it only work at a high altitude? Not about the altitude itself, more about the altitude difference. And Sam, you were quite close there. Have a think. Look, what might this truck be doing?

Driving. Freaking. It's a dump truck. What's a duty cycle look like for that? Well the back of it is going to come up to dump whatever is in, is being stored in it. And so does that somehow funnel some charge back into the battery at a high altitude? No, but it's going to change the truck.

Well, it's not going to be as heavy once it's dumped out the stuff that was in it. It's not. So then it floats and then it just drifts slowly down on the breeze, and it leaves the back up as a sort of sail, and that catches the wind, and it uses that power to... Anyway, well thanks, that was fun. This is operating a quarry. Where's it going to be picking up stuff?

Where's it going to be dropping it off? I mean, I assume it's picking things up from the mountains, where rocks are, and taking them picking things up from the mountains where rocks are and taking them to the bottom of the mountains where they want rocks to go. Yes. I don't know why, like, you know, just knock them off the edge. Wait, wait, because if it's heavier coming down and they're breaking coming down, they're building up a lot of charge and then they don't need as much charge when the truck is lighter to get back up the mountain. So they're going up light and coming down heavy, so it's easier to go up.

Is enough difference to make it up? It is more than enough difference according to the company that makes the vehicle. I have seen a couple of questions about this over the years, but yes, this is a 110-ton dump truck. At the top of the quarry, it's filled with rocks. They then have to break all the way down the hill. All the energy is being pushed into the battery. It lets the rocks go, and then it's got more than enough charge to head back up the hill

and repeat the cycle over and over and over. So it never actually needs charging because the power is coming from the potential energy of the rocks. So it only works down steep hills if you're carrying heavy things. Yes. I feel like if there's any listeners out there who know anything about, like, physics or electric vehicles, that was extremely painful for them to listen to. We're sorry. We're sorry we're so thick.

What's a car? Karen, it is over to you for the next question. This question has been sent in by Yong. In 2008, a large observation wheel opened by the Marina Bay Financial District in Singapore. Three months later, with the wheel operating as expected, a six-figure sum was spent making it spin the other way. Why? And again?

In 2008, a large observation wheel opened by the Marina Bay Financial District in Singapore. Three months later, with the wheel operating as expected, a six-figure sum was spent making it spin the other way. Why? First I have to figure out, is it a ferris wheel? Is it like a rotating top of the space needle kind of situation? No, that is a ferris wheel. I've seen that ferris wheel.

It is? Yes. Unless by spinning the other way, it was originally meant to be horizontal and I've only seen it in the vertical position. That feels like it costs a lot more to make it re-engineered like that. And I feel like there's a lot of other ways besides just one. It could be... No, it's one of the touristy ferris wheels with the enclosed pods that are in a touristy area that costs a lot of money to go on. You said it was open by the financial district?

I'm thinking maybe it was bad feng shui for it to spin that way, and everyone around was losing a bunch of money, so three months later they changed the direction of the energy. Actually, you have gotten it exactly right. What? What? What? Out of nowhere! Just vibes?

It was just all vibes? It was just vibes? I was ready to do all sorts of things about, well, it can't be light reflecting, it can't be that, because it's just... I thought it was just going to be like, it's unsatisfying to be going backwards, it's better to crest over the top and have a full experience. But no, it's just... We spend minutes trying to work on physics for a truck going up and down.

Are this one's vibes? The layman's brain, what am I telling you? Yeah, all intuition, no science. That's the way to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not that they actually were losing money, but I'll read you the actual answer. The wheel was not following the rules of Feng Shui. It initially spun away from the financial

district, but in the opinion of Feng Shui masters, it appeared as if the wheel was taking good fortune away from Singapore, so they spent a reported six-figure sum to make the wheel spin in the opposite direction, bringing good luck towards the city. You even identified Feng Shui! I'm a genius! I'm a genius! Thank you to San Huan for this next question.

A Korean tour group arrives in the remote city of Baobao, Sulawesi province. Although they see Korean writing on road signs, none of them seem to make sense. Also, most of the 80,000 residents can't speak any Korean. Why? I'll say that again. A Korean tour group arrives in the remote city of Baobau, Sulawe Si Province.

Although they see Korean writing on road signs, none of them seem to make sense. Also, most of the 80,000 residents can't speak any Korean. Why? Is this city still in Korea? It is in Indonesia. I mean, for fashion, there have been some, you know, shirts that use English words but in nonsensical ways coming out of various countries in Asia. Could they be like, Korean is so

cool but we're just kind of using it for the aesthetic. But there are signs, there are street signs? Mm-hmm. I mean, in China, I have heard of fake high schools and even fake American-style stores maybe that are just used as, like, photoshoot backgrounds. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if this is a real city. Yeah, is it like a Disneyland version of... It is a real and remote city.

I mean, could the people who actually lived in this city, could they understand what was on the signs? Yeah, these are proper road signs. It's just the alphabet looks incredibly similar to Korean. Keep thinking along those lines, Francis. Was it localised writing but stylised to look as if it were another language? Like, as if I were to write my name but in faux calligraphies that it looked like Japanese characters or somethings that it, you know, that it would be nonsensical to someone expecting to see Japanese but if you

read English you'd be like, it's just somebody's name. Was this Korean city designed by Chad GPT? The tourists will recognise that it's Korean writing, but they won't be able to make any sense of it. But if they read it out phonetically, like if they read what they were looking at to a local person, that person would understand what they were saying? Yes, they would. That's a really key insight. So it's words in another language, but spelled with Korean characters. Yes, and this is a remote city in Indonesia.

So it is, these road signs are Indonesian, but they're written, they're written with Korean characters to spell out Indonesian words? They were just much closer to a Korean sign factory, and so when they ordered the signs they just, you know, read them out loud over the phone and they got the signs and they were those things but Korean. Sam, you're very close, but you said Indonesian language. This is a remote city. Is this a language that's just completely localised in this one spot?

Yes. And is it an entirely spoken language? Like, does it have no written element? That's it. So what happened? So, whoever got the order, you know, like, they couldn't write it down, they just had to read it to them? Oh! No, this wasn't a mistake. You're absolutely right, this is an Indonesian dialect which has no written form, because there was no agreed standard for writing it down.

So what might have happened? Someone from Korea was in town one day, and transliterated their language? Yeah, kind of. It was a bit more formal than that, but you know what, I'll give it to you. This is a city in Indonesia, they have a local dialect that never had a written form, because

there was no standard for writing it down. So they looked at all the writing systems in the world, and because they're based on certain syllables, they wanted not an alphabet but a syllabary, or syllabary, which is Korean. They went with the one that was closest, so they use it for documents, road signs, anything official. And so if Korean tourists turn up, they will see their written language, but for words that are local. That's so cool. Were there runners-up?

Were there fallback runners like, well, if we can't get the rights to Korean, then Cyrillics got some good points. Sam, it is over to you. This question has been sent in by Jeff. In 1985, Wilbur was playing on the organ for a crowd of people in Florida. When he played a children's nursery song, he was told to leave, something which brought him national attention. Why? And again, in 1985, Wilbur was playing on the organ for a crowd of

people in Florida. When he played a children's nursery song, he was told to leave, something which brought him national attention. Why? I assume he was playing at a baseball game because that's... I was thinking baseball as well. Because that's the main situation I could think of where someone would be playing in Oregon for a huge crowd, but exactly what children's song would be so insulting that he'd be asked to leave, I don't know. I want to take a shot at it, but I'm going to let Karen have a go first. Oh no. I mean, I'm trying to think of any nursery rhymes that I can think of that can be played

on like an organ or a piano, and all I can come up with is that I think it's the ABCs and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star have the same tune. Is that correct? I don't think that's at all relevant, though. They do. My assumption is that he's insulting the umpire, and that's because... So the three blind mice, perhaps. Oh, yes, because umpires can eject anyone from a baseball ground. That's the rules of baseball, and it's in the tickets and the contracts.

They can eject players, but they can also eject coaches or staff or fans or possibly the guy playing the organ if he's insulting them. You're done, we can go home. Both of you, That was completely correct! Yes, Wilbur Snap was an organist at a minor league baseball game in Florida, and a call went against the Clearwater Phillies, and so Wilbur trolled the umpire by playing three blind mice, and the umpire ejected him from the game. The incident became a national news story,

and he often apparently signed autographs as Wilbur Snap, three blind mice organist, and he kept playing the organ at the stadium until they decided he was recording music instead. Well, yeah, you guys got that so quick. Ha ha ha! A sports question as well. Which brings me to the question from the start of the show, sent in by Juggernaut. What type of products are you almost certain to find at a modern supermarket and a Disney

store? Does anyone want to take a shot at that before I give this to the audience? Overpriced cups with characters' faces on them. You're not certain to find things like that in a modern supermarket, though. Caramel corn, corn dogs, I'm just trying to think of food they would sell at Disneyland. Name all the foods! There's things you could definitely buy at either one. You can buy candy at both, but I don't know that that's distinctive enough to be interesting.

Is this like a wordplay type of thing? Is this like a word that sounds the same? It is very much a wordplay type thing, Karen, and I think you and the audience are going to hate me for this one. There is definitely some wordplay there, if you think about the sections of a typical supermarket and what might be some popular Disney merch. Well, if you bought misprinted daisy merchandise,

it might say dairy on it. I don't know. There are other sections in supermarkets? The bakery, the produce, fruits and vegetables. I'm always in the goofy section of the supermarket. Oh no, you see, that's not the pun we're doing, but it's very close. You were nearly right with the dairy stuff. Eggs.

Milk. Bit colder. Ice cream. Popsicles. We're just naming all the foods now. Sam, where might you find the ice cream? The frozen. Oh, frozen. Frozen. Frozen.

Frozen. Frozen. Yeah, the answer is frozen goods, and I apologise to everyone for that. On that terrible pun, what's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? We will start with Sam. You can find me on YouTube and on Instagram,

at SamMeeps, to see what I'm working on now. What sort of things do you make? Anime and cosplay makes. So I'm working on some Halloween projects now, for some video games like Genshin Impact and some anime like Demon Slayer. Karen. So you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. Just look up Karen Puzzles. I'm currently working on a big video about the World Jigsaw Puzzle Championships 2024, which is very exciting,

but also a lot of work. So hopefully by the time you hear this, that'll all be up. And Francis? Well, you can find my puzzles at ABCX or in a bunch of books that I've done. Most recently, I've edited a few books of decade themed crosswords. Grids Just Wanna Have Fun, the 80s, New Grids on the Block, the 90s, and Grids Don't Lie, the Aughts. And of course, the book Lateral, written by the estimable Tom Scott and his producer David Bodicombe.

Thank you for the plug. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at Lateralcast.com. We are at Lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast. Thank you very much to Francis Heaney. Thank you. Karen from Karen Puzzles. Thank you. And Sam Meeps.

Thank you. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.