Lateral with Tom Scott - 129: Shooting a finger gun

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Rowan Ellis, Dan Peake and Alec Watson face questions about street stones, European epithets and Lego logistics. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Ólafur Waage, Jared Pike, Mateusz Horbaczewski, Allen, Matan. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My parents have had a lot of time on their hands lately. At first, it was nice. Hey mom, can you drive me to soccer practice? Sure can. We're having slow cooked ribs for dinner. It was awesome. And then it became a lot. Some friends are coming over to watch a movie. Oh, what are we watching? I'll make some popcorn. Thanks to Voila, they can order all our fresh favorites from Sobeez, Farmboy, and Longos online, which is super reliable. And now my parents are reliable. A little too reliable. Voila! Your groceries delivered, just like that.

In the Spanish media, who does Carlos, Guillermo and Enrique usually refer to? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name is Tom Scott and this is LATRA. No matter where you are in the world, it's possible to listen to or watch this show on a device that fits into the palm of your hand. Isn't technology amazing? It says the guy reading these words from a sheet of dead tree, hoping to keep up with modern times. First today we have from her own YouTube channel and the Queer Movie Podcast, welcome back to the show, Rowan Ellis.

Hello! Very happy to be back. It is always a delight to have you on the show. What are you working on at the minute? Because you said you were doing something a little bit different to usual. Yeah, I just happened to be directing a comedy play by my friend about her hyperfixation on gay Downton Abbey fan fiction, so... Wow! It's, by the time this comes out, it would have done its London run, but we're looking to maybe take it to Edinburgh to the Fringe, so fingers crossed.

And how about for your own projects? Like, video essays? What are you working on at the minute? So I do video essays on my YouTube channel monthly. They are mainly queer and otherwise social justice and sociology and history-focused, as well as doing the Queer Movie podcast, where basically I just get to watch queer movies and then rant about them, which is kind of an amazing thing to get to do as a job. Well, very best of luck on the show today. There are two other returning players joining you, the first of which is professional puzzle editor and Only Connect question writer, Dan Peake. Welcome back.

Hey, thank you very much for having me. I'm always a little bit intimidated when I introduce someone here who is a professional puzzle and question writer, because I just worry that you will know all the facts. I can easily say that's not going to be true. The amount of stuff that I learn at one point in time is far eclipsed by the amount that I have forgotten over the same period of time. If a fact goes in my head, at least two facts come out of my head the other time. None of it stays in.

I said professional puzzle editor. What are you writing at the moment? I compile quite a few crosswords for my day job, but I'm also writing for Only Connect. I've done a bit of work for the 1% Club, so I'm all about lots of natural thinking stuff, not straight trivia, somewhere where there's a twist to the question, not just a standard question answer. I write enough of those, but I do like a good twist on those as well. Well, hopefully that will stand you in good stead today. Our last player today is the host of Technology Connections on YouTube.

Welcome back to the show, Alec Watson. Hello, thank you for having me back. It is lovely to have you back. You are actually in the studio today. I recognize the background. Yes, well now that I have an actual office, I want to take advantage of it. A professional mic, professional setup, although the lighting and the televisions behind are not switched on. Yeah, the setup is too janky to work with what's happening right now.

What sort of thing are you working on at the minute? Because the last I saw, you had managed to hack your car charging point somehow? Yeah, that was just basically a personal project that I turned into a video, but actually that led to what my current next project is going to be, is just explaining power versus energy, because I've seen a lot of people be confused about that and I'm kind of going on a more back to basics situation for this year, I think, and that's going to be my first project like that. I remember seeing a video somewhere on cursed units, which said that a lot of European appliances

are marked up in kilowatt hours per hour. Ugh. Thank you, that is exactly the response I was hoping to get from you there. That's the sort of thing I'm hoping to, like, elucidate. Good luck to all three of you on the show today. Let us progress to the very up to the minute question one. On some mornings, Marianne would wear some old glasses with one of the lenses removed and then turn them upside down. Why? I'll say that again. On some mornings, Marianne would wear some old glasses with one of the lenses removed and then turn them upside down.

Why? Is this something to do with the bifocal lenses? Like you people who have lenses where at the top and the bottom it's a different prescription to be able to like look down to read but look up to see far potentially? Especially if they were old glasses that she might have a description might have changed and she might be able to switch him around somehow. I'm wondering if Marianne has a vendetta against one very specific ant. She's looking for it. She's looking for it. Mean, I know.

Start the show off with, I'm going to fry an ant with frying it with the sun going through the lens. And that's what you made me think of, Rowan. ALL LAUGHING The first thing that I thought of was when you said turn upside down, meaning the lens switched eyes. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Well, why not remove the other lens then?

Why do you remove the certain lens and then turn your glasses upside down? There's got to be a reason for that. Is it something to do with the... So like, if I have glasses and I need my prescription both eyes and if I close one of my eyes, like, I can obviously still see out of the other one. So I don't know if there was something where like, they needed their glasses to see in order to take out the other lens? Like, they needed to be able to... Does that even make any sense? It does. It does, and it's kind of in the right direction.

Something in my mind is thinking about the whole legend of, or myth, whatever you want to call it, about eye patches for pirates. Do you want to explain that one? Because everyone on the call went, oh yeah, I know that, but not all of our audience will. That is exactly the kind of nerd fact that between my long-ago history with pirates, our general trivia knowledge, and I suspect Rowan's knowledge of our flag means death, everyone has heard the evenb-

You're so close, Tom. It's actually my knowledge of the best TV show ever to air Black Sails. Apologies. I got the wrong pirate show. But you are so... Honestly, that was a read. I feel very seen. Yeah, so, supposedly, one of the reasons that pirates wore eyepatches was so that one of their eyes was always adjusted to the dark for when they went below deck. And so I was thinking, is this something to do with that? Or perhaps maybe like exercising the lenses in your eyes

to try and correct your vision? It's not eye exercise, but you're all kind of in the right area here. The frame around the absent lens was also removed. So it was a monocle? It was a monocle with an extra bar over the other side, so it's still on both ears. But hang on, if they... I've been in my head going upside down,

but then it wouldn't be, it would be just, I guess, propped on the top of your ears, like the bits that curve around your ears, would they just be sticking up? Yes, they would. You said that, like... Yeah, Rowan, obviously, they would just be sticking up. Like, yeah, that's a normal way to wear glasses, actually, Rowan. If you know the answer, then yes, it does seem obvious.

Apologies. Is this person just hanging upside down sometimes? Ooh. If that was the case, you'd probably still want your glasses the right way up on your face, relative to you. Yeah, that's true. So just to make sure you know what's going on here, the lens is gone, like the bottom half of that frame is gone,

so you've just got the connecting bar at the top, and then the whole set of glasses, not immediately, but the whole set of glasses gets turned upside down at one point. I don't know the purpose of these glasses yet. Is it obviously to look through, because that is the point of glasses, but is it going to be something close up, something delicate, or is it going to be something far away? It is going to be something delicate, yes.

Mmm. I'm getting jewellery vibes now. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. And some excellent glass-wearing vibes from Rowan. I was just wanting to, you know, I'm not very good at imagining things rotating shapes in my head, so I just wanted to give it a go, and yep, that's exactly as stupid as I thought it was. Great. Is this just to get more depth perception when looking at something very close up? Yeah. Yeah, I'll go with that. But why one lens?

You could just close one eye if you wanted that. And why turn the glasses upside down? Right. Is it that you need to really quickly see something far away and something close up so someone could like manually shut each of their eyes, but it would be difficult to or to show, maybe not even to see something far away, the difference between them being able to see naturally, and what they can see naturally, and what they can see with glasses.

But I don't know, the switching around thing is still confusing me. What would that removed lens allow access to? An eyeball. Wait, are they doing surgery on themselves or something? Are they an optician or someone who needs to be able to like... I mean, I wouldn't go with doing surgery. This is on some mornings. People have hobbies, Tom. I don't know. Because yeah, it allows free access to an eye.

I don't get the upside down bit. That's the bit. Why not just take off the other lens instead, and rather than do it with the whole rigmarole of turning your glasses upside down. That's the bit. Why not just take off the other lens instead, rather than do it with the whole rigmarole of turning your glasses upside down? That's the bit that's getting me. Well, lenses take a while to remove. Like, this is just a single thing that she can pick up in the mornings, use, and then be done for the day. It's because she needs...

Okay, does she use it for, like, her makeup? So she's doing, like, one side and then turns it so she can do the other eye. Yes, this is journalist Marianne Jones, who found that she couldn't see while applying mascara and other eye makeup, and so rigged up her glasses, removing one lens and the frame so she's got one eye to see with while applying mascara to the other eye. And that's a very delicate operation. Oh! Thanks for the assist, Dan. You're welcome.

Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. I don't know the questions, I definitely don't know the answers. We'll start today with Alec. This question has been sent in by Mateusz Horbaczewski. In November 2024, a new line of ten LEGO sets was announced, each one having a very similar assembly scheme. Why do two of them have an 18 plus age rating, while others are 10 plus? And I'll read that one more time.

In November 2024, a new line of 10 LEGO sets was announced, each one having a very similar assembly scheme. Why do two of them have an 18 plus age rating, while others are 10 plus? I'm immediately thinking naked LEGO. Ha ha ha! Whether it's the bricks or yourself, naked LEGO. Oh no! Oh no! As if standing on a LEGO wasn't bad enough, Dan.

Ooh. Well, I wonder if there could be some sort of Lego, like strip tease poker, but Lego. I'm sure there already is, to be honest. That's fair. It's true. I'm just thinking about, like, age ratings of stuff. So, the, like, nudity or sex is obviously one.

Like, violence or something. And so, at first, I was like, maybe it's like a... They're like the top 10 TV shows or something, but I think the similar assembly wouldn't work. But I'm wondering about whether... Because I know that LEGO do not just characters and sets, but like botanicals and houses and stuff. So I was wondering if it was like a set of plants,

and then one of them is like weed. Poisonous Lego! We simply can't, like, the kids can't know about marijuana. We need to have it, it's 18 rated for the drug, and drug paraphernalia bit of the age rating. Is weed legal in Denmark now? I'm not sure. I would think it is, but... It feels like a country where weed should be legal,

but I'm not certain of that. Well, it's legal in Missouri now, so... But I'm like, yeah, I feel like the over-18s, it's like their special treat. I know LEGO never used to have any weapons. That was a choice they used to do, and I think that's kind of got fuzzier over the years, they've started doing more and more branded sets, and more and more,

kind of, brought in pop culture stuff. But I think the original idea of Lego is that you could only construct with it, you could not destroy. So I'm wondering if there's something like that where the kids should not have access to a thing that even has a picture of a gun in it, or a little weapon of some sort. I think I've seen little spacemen or something with a little ray gun, though, so it feels like it wouldn't be that, but it does feel like a reference to something adult.

Top 10 list sounds really good. It feels like it's going to be something towards violence or... yeah. Sexy naked Lego. Mmm. The classics, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sexy naked Lego. Mmm. The classics, yeah, yeah, yeah. You said very similar constructions, Alec. Maybe one of them is just very similar construction. It's just a lot bigger and more complicated.

Like, eight of these sets are like the children, and two of them are just giant grown-up sets that actually have 10,000 pieces. No child's going to have the patience for them. No, the sets each contained about 250 pieces, so it's nothing to do with the complexity. Rowan and Tom both kind of pulled on something, but then went away from it.

All right. Uh-huh. What was I pulling on? I was pulling on weeds. I was pulling... Something through the yellow... Weed is not quite there, but maybe pull a little more on that. Ooh!

You said, Rowan, that LEGO has a botanical set. You can get LEGO plants because someone I know got those instead of actual plants for their flat, because they still look nice, but they are plastic and do not... Genius. Like, it meant you could get plastic plants without the stigma of, oh, you can't look after your plants, you just bought some plastic ones. They're Lego.

They're different. So what kind of plants would be 18 plus? Or what kind of, like, something other than people or constructions? Think less plants, more... We're too into plants. So they're based on something in real life. Okay. Oh, is it the one, they're like, how, they're like, the houses on a street or something,

and it's like a bar, or something that's like an 18 plus venue that can be made? Yes, because they have like the Lego towns, where they've just got streets and things that you can just build the various components for over time. So this was a tie-up with a well-known franchise. Franchise? What franchises are there? The big ones, Marvel, Marvel and LEGO probably go quite well together. Lord of the Rings?

I was still thinking casino franchise for a minute there. I was like, Paris? Caesar's Palace? It's mega-bingo. Ocean's Eleven. It's just a loado. Ocean's Eleven. It's just a load of slot machines that, no. I know there's one big franchise that they specifically don't have a deal with.

It's really surprising. It's like Star Trek or something, where you'd think there would be really big ships on and they just don't. But I don't know what franchises they do have. I know that because I saw an unofficial LEGO maker. Because the patent on LEGO has expired. Anyone can make bricks that match as long as you don't use the LEGO name. So there's a company out there that has basically bought up all the franchises that LEGO was not interested in.

So if you don't have a LEGO set, there may be an unofficial LEGO set. And I remember looking at, I think it was some Star Trek stuff from them going, well, that doesn't look very good. Like, the building instructions, the style of how it was made, just didn't feel like LEGO somehow. And all I have for that is just sheer vibes. So there were commercial and legal factors involved here. Okay.

But I'm going to be— I'm going to let you know, each model had four black wheels. Ooh. Okay. So, racing cars, F1. Okay, big racing franchise. I'm thinking NASCAR. They've linked up with American NASCAR stuff. So you're really close. Name some companies that are known for being in that sport. Ah, if it is NASCAR or something like that, will they have been sponsored by some form of adult site or...

Alcohol. ...smoking? It could be alcohol or smoking. And it's like on the side of the cars as well. Yes, because they have those decals, and that'll be a requirement by the sponsor, won't it? Yeah, not quite alcohol, think less depressant, and more stimulant. Formula One certainly used to have a lot of smoking sponsors, so is it going to be cigarettes

on the side of cars? Is it going to be something like that? No, it's stimulant. Oh, there's a Red Bull racing team. Oh! Oh! There you go, that's it. Toro Rosso. Yep. I will say, when I read this question as an American, I was like, what?

Because energy drinks, anybody can get them here, as far as I know. So Red Bull is restricted to under-18s, therefore the Red Bull logo? Yeah. So, Lego released a set of ten Formula One cars, one for each manufacturer in the 2025 season, and they had a great amount of detail, including customized miniature steering wheels and stickers of real life sponsors. Red Bull owns two Formula One teams, Red Bull Racing and RBF One team, and the Energy Drinks logo is featured on these cars and as such Lego decided to give them an adult age rating and While there is no law in the UK banning the sale of energy drinks to minors many retailers and supermarkets have implemented a self-imposed ban

That is hysterical that we were like we started this question guessing like okay So there is a a drug fueled Lego orgy in a bingo hall. It's crazy. And then the solution is actually energy drinks. Yeah. Love that. Visa and OpenTable are dishing up something new. Get access to primetime dining reservations by adding your Visa Infinite Privilege Card to your OpenTable account.

From there, you'll unlock first come, first serve spots at select top restaurants when booking through OpenTable. Learn more at opentable.ca forward slash Visa Dining. When you get into an Escape Plug-in Hybrid, you get the perfect mix. You can chill in electric mode, turn it up in gas mode, or get the best of both in hybrid mode. Choose how you move in the all-in-one Escape.

And right now, get a $3,000 rebate on the Escape plug-in hybrid and all 2025 Escape models. For details, visit your Toronto area Ford store or ford.ca. Thank you to Alan for sending in this question. Felicity goes into a local shop to buy a loaf of bread. The shopkeeper makes a finger gun gesture. So after some confusion, Felicity hands over some money before leaving.

If she wanted an apple instead, there wouldn't have been any hesitation. Why? I'll say that again. Felicity goes into a local shop to buy a loaf of bread. The shopkeeper makes a finger gun gesture. So, after some confusion, Felicity hands over some money before leaving. If she wanted an apple instead, there wouldn't have been any hesitation. Why? Is this a sign language thing? Is there like a... the sign for Apple or the sign for something is like way more obvious to understand as like being what it is meant to symbolise?

I'm trying to think of bread puns and I'm not coming up with any, it's very disappointing. Come on, bread puns, Dan! It's alright, I'm sure you'll prove yourself later. Oh, there we go! Yep, there we are. You can always rise to the occasion. There we go! Ah, he stole that from me, I was are. You can always rise to the occasion. There we go. He stole that from me, I was going to say, get a rise out of me.

Hey, that's using your love. Oh. And I still can't think about him. You know, you would think a pun is the yeast I could do. Oh, alright, alright. Get out of here. Let's slice it off there. Let's slice it off there.

I'm like doing the same as what I was doing with the glasses. I'm like, is this helping me? And I'm like, it's not. It's not helping me. So the first thing that I thought of was, I was a Disney cast member in college, and we were taught about the Disney point, because some cultures pointing with one finger is considered rude. And I was wondering like, is that maybe

just a gesture for like, hey, you, you forgot to pay for that. But why would the difference between bread and apple matter? And why was there a bit of confusion? Yeah. There's many types of bread. There's many types of apple. So like, I want that one. No, I want that one. Mm. Was it just a very, like, the sign language gesture for bread is very similar to a finger gun? Sign language is vaguely in the right area, but I worry that the exact phrase, like, sign language,

kinda sends you down the wrong path here. It's a method of communication, but if it had been Apple, it would have been a clearer way of doing it. I guess it's like, what is it communicating, right? So it's the gap between it was a person wants to buy the bread, and then they do the finger guns and then they pay? Was that the order, Tom? Who is it doing the gesture here?

The shopkeeper. then they pay? Was that the order, Tom? Who is it doing the gesture here? The shopkeeper. Mmm. So it's not I would like bread with the gesture, it's... They've been asked for bread. Is it the amount of bread? The size of bread? This size of loaf? Here's the one that got away? This big? Is it, like, yeah, like, the idea of, I don't even...

Yeah, I was thinking about the pointing towards, like, weighing scales. Like, it's an unusual I don't even... Yeah, I was thinking about pointing towards weighing scales. Like, it's an unusual thing to have to weigh, but maybe there's places where you have to... The bread is by weight, not just a normal... Whereas it's loose fruit might be more obvious to put on the scales or something. Is this some sort of boutique bread shop where you buy loafs and they send it through a slicer? Ooh.

You don't need to know more about the shop here. This is the whole scenario is laid out for you. But what sort of difference might there be between buying an apple and buying a loaf? The loaf is in packaging. It's... It's bread. It's sliced. It's...

No, I got nothing. I'm trying to work out now, are there more types of bread in the world, or are there more types of apple? Because bread, apples we have to, you know, breed, but there's hundreds of types of apple. Bread is only different because we make it so. Apples are sort of a natural thing, we make the bread that's all different. I'm trying to work out, are there more types of bread in the world or apple? I feel like there'd be more types of bread. I don't know how this helps, but I just feel like there's more types of bread than apple in the world. But I do think that the fact it was a loaf of bread specifically is, I don't know if it's

relevant, but it was useful in my head, because otherwise it suddenly goes in the direction of a baguette. What's, is this a baguette sign? Like, what's happening? So I'm like, okay, loaf of bread baguette. What's... is this a baguette sign? Like, what's happening? So I'm like, okay, loaf of bread makes more sense. I'm going to clue you in here and say that Felicity is in a foreign country. Okay, so there is a language barrier. Yes. Yes, there is. That's why I didn't want you to go full-on sign language here.

Okay. But certainly that's a steer. The shopkeeper's trying to communicate something. Is there going to be a term in another language for a type of bread that means gun? Because isn't a baguette in French known as a baton? Or something like that. So you would make a baton symbol if you wanted to get a baguette or something like that. But is there a word that sounds like gun that means a type of bread in a different language than English? Pumpernickel.

Someone who only speaks English, I'm going to say I have no idea. Is gun the right word? We've been told about the gun symbol, but is it the right word that we're after here? We may not be after the word gun. In terms of concept, no, this is not a threat of violence. The shopkeeper is not trying to gesture gun. OK, so actually maybe it was helping that I was... OK, things that this looks like. A V, a tick, a pointing, like Alex said. That gesture would have been different for an apple, different for all sorts of items.

Italy is known for a lot of hand gestures. Are we in Italy here? We're not in Italy, no. Talk through the scenario. Like, what might the shopkeeper be trying to communicate? Asking if she wants to pay by a certain method. Seeing if she wants a bag. Does she have a club card?

The classic shop questions. There's one more obvious question that a shopkeeper... How many loaves? Oh, is it one or two? Is it going to be one for the thumb and two for the two fingers? Now, getting close there, Dan. Definitely getting close. But it's not necessarily a question here.

What might the shopkeeper be trying to communicate? It's got to be something about the bread or the pavement. It's got to be a pavement. But it's got to be the bread, because if it was an apple it would have been clear. Are you sure about that, Dan? No? I feel like I've missed a fundamental step in a transaction here. You have!

There's a really fundamental step down to to like, every sketch, every simple idea of going into a shop and buying something, you have missed a very important thing that the shopkeeper needs to tell you. I'm closed. Go away. How much you need to pay. Yes. So what might that finger gun symbol have indicated? 2.1? 1.2? 3? Is it, Tom, is it that this is a... This specifically is like a recognised symbol in another country.

Like it is a hand gesture that's native to that country, where they... This is how we express this thing? Or is it more like situation? Yes, yes it is. Okay. So one L for Lear, or something, if you're sort of holding it, it looks like an L. Honestly, I think you've got it. I just, what I'm waiting to hear is, like, just a specific thing that that gesture might mean in that country.

Dollar. The other part of the price. One. It means one? Three. Close enough, I'm not going to let you guess numbers. That is a number gesture in China. Oh! China has a very different set of hand… I saw Alec!

Absolutely face palm for this. Yeah, I learned this in high school. I took Chinese. I don't remember the gestures, but I do remember there's a very complicated… Is it a counting system? I don't remember if it's a counting system or Is it a counting system? I don't know. I don't remember if it's a counting system or if it's just like a very universal signing for the digits.

Yep. So, as I have it here, and I had to learn this once, I think, for a video, and I'm going to try and get these right. Six is like the hang loose sign. Seven is pinching with the first three digits. Eight is the finger gun symbol. Nine is a hook made with your index finger, and 10 is either a full fist or crossed fingers.

So why, if it had been an apple, would there have been much less hesitation, much less confusion? Different price, much less valuable, so... It's much cheaper, and the numbers there are just 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 fingers. Of course, because if you've got numbers one, two, three, four, five, you can just use a hand and go, this is the number. Yep. I think it would have been helpful to know this is some kind of bougie bread loaf, because that's a pricey bread loaf.

Well I'm not sure quite how many yan there are to the dollar at the moment, I reckon. Oh, that's fair. Yes, this is Felicity buying a loaf of bread in a shop in China and not understanding the hand gestures there for 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. And 8 is a finger gun. Rowan, your question whenever you're ready, please. Amazing. So this question has been sent in by Oliver Forge. In Pompeii, there are basalt cobblestone streets running through the city. Small white pebbles were inserted into gaps between the corners of the cobbles. Why?

I'll do it once more for you. In Pompeii there are basalt cobblestone streets running through the city. Small white pebbles were inserted into gaps between the corners of the cobbles. Why? I think it's for... So it's a runway so that the ancient Roman planes could see where exactly to land. There they are, they're coming in, there they go. Oh, I read a book recently. This is not a recommendation, by the way.

I'm sorry to just, like, slate someone's book out of nowhere. But I read a book called New Pompeii that has just a brilliant concept and just does not seem to do anything with it. The inhabitants of Pompeii are pulled into our time by a corporate time travel experiment just before they all die. And they are not stupid. They work out what's happening. And it's actually like ancient Romans with modern technology versus the... That is such a good concept. And I did not enjoy the book at all and it felt like a...

But there is something in my head about cobblestones, because what this guy does like doing is showing his work. He has done the research into ancient Pompeii. I'm like, I'm sure I have read this somewhere and it has completely escaped me. So, are these for... Does this have anything to do with the visual contrast between the stones and the white pebbles? Absolutely does. Yeah, Basalt will be black, isn't it? It's volcanic. Which also, thinking about it,

Pompeii, that's kind of a clue. Pompeii, famously volcanic. So is this just like an early form of road marking? I mean, why would they need that? So you hilariously, Daniel, your joke about an aeroplane landing strip, it's not completely off the mark. The planes are right, yeah? Yeah, it's the planes that are right, Daniel. I thought so.

Well, they have famously straight roads. So if instead of a runway runway they needed a way of going, well, is this road straight or not? What can we see in the distance? Is it going to be the little white bits in amongst the black bits? Sort of shining? The shining aspect of the white stones is key here. Then I think I might know.

Oh, okay. Is it to do with nighttime then, If it's to do with shining? If you've got a black road, at night it's going to be really difficult to navigate. So... Oh, it's like cat's eyes. It's like the reflective dots you get in roads, so you can see where you're going? That is maybe the quickest, I feel, like anyone's ever gone on the Leicester lateral. Absolutely. I feel like I'm really bringing the team down being on the

answering side. Yeah, this is in Pompeii, there are these distinctive patterns of white dots that are interspersed among the darker paving stones, which makes it easier to see when lights pour specifically at night where the moon would shine down, and moon would shine down and the light would bounce off and it would illuminate the path, making it basically reducing risk of accident, making it possible to actually travel by night by foot or by car, which prior to having this kind of innovation would have been much more dangerous or not probably done at all. You'd have been falling off the road all the time. It's such a simple solution as well for a problem that happens every day, every night. It's just such a simple solution. Absolute geniuses, the ancient Romans.

I mean, the thing is that I was really surprised you went this quickly into what it was, because I feel like Pompeii is already known a lot for its different street markings and architecture and things like that, because it had a lot of people who were illiterate. And so quite famously, there would be like frescoes in the brothels in order for you to like, essentially order off a menu because you would just look at the like sex act to be like that, please. Like there's a bunch of stuff about Pompeii that is about like stuff in this and like arrows

in the streets that would direct to certain stores or to also to brothels. It's the ancient Romans love the brothel. Because again, people wouldn't be able to necessarily see like the on the signs read what what they wanted or what they were trying to go to. So yeah, there's a lot of stuff that you kind of didn't even go down. I was really anticipating talking about that stuff, but you went straight in onto the practical road markings. Apparently, we don't have much ancient Roman knowledge here.

I fear I am the man who is obsessed with ancient Rome and this school. I just don't know anything about brothels. This question's been sent in by Matan. I'll say that again, possibly so you can take notes. Danish schools have a unique way to grade their students. The best grade is 12, followed by 10, 7, 4, 0, 2, double 0, and minus 3. Why? Now, Scott, you asked me... sorry, why did I call you Scott? Sorry. I don't know, it happens a lot, and also, for the longest time, I was Tom Scott.

Yeah. I'm just one of those people who gets referred to by both names far too often. So, Tom Scott. It's better than other Tom. I got that the other week on this podcast, when Tom from Tom Rocks Maths was on. You asked me a question at the start, Tom, about retaining facts. I know for a fact that I've asked this question, which country grades its students with 12, 10, 7, 4? I've asked that question. Did I look into why? I did not. I just went, oh, that's a great fact

and so weird. And then I never looked into why. So I know this is true. Yeah, I've got a clue why. I'm hung up on zero two. Why not two? And double zero? Like a roulette wheel. Are we grading them on a roulette wheel? Today you've won nothing. I'm wondering if it's not like similar to the to the gun-finger gun situation that it's not that it's actually these numbers, but it's something that looks like them, or it's the other way around where they grade via, I don't know, Roman numeral or some other way of writing those numbers

that does make more sense when it's all put together, potentially. You're right that those individual numbers don't have mathematical significance. It's not that 10, 7, 4s... You're right that those individual numbers don't have mathematical significance. It's not that 10, 7, 4, 0... It's not like we're going down a scale that exactly corresponds to those grades. — Because it goes to minus 3. — It does. — How did you do at school today?

Well, I'd be better if I hadn't gone. I've got zero. Twelve. Is it something that comes in a group of twelve? Or is it a word for excellent? It's got ten, twelve letters? No, because nothing's got minus three letters and nothing's got zero zero letters. So it's not...

I don't know, Tom! Is this like a question to do with bases? Different bases of counting? No, there's no mathematical significance here. Okay. Is it the way... I mean, like, I'm trying to think as well, because it's not... Which country was it, you said, Tom?

Denmark. So if it is something in Danish, in the language of what those numbers sound like in Danish, has some effect, or like what they... Like anything to the letters in the... Yeah, however you say it. Or, I mean, they wouldn't, like, the writing system wouldn't be different, but I'm thinking about, like, how those letters look on the page, and if that has anything to do with it. Yes, it does, Rowan.

That's a good path to go down. I don't have any pens in front of me. I'm, like, drawing on my hand. I've written it down on a sheet of paper in front of me and... I can't see a pattern. Of course, how do you write the number seven? I'm someone who does the standard seven and then puts a line through it, which I think is quite a European way.

Yeah, I also put the line through. I'm a big fan of that. Bit of flair to our sevens, Dan. You can't read any of my writing anyway, but it sort of distinguishes it. I think you would want to do that in this case. I think you would want to put a line through that seven. Oh, are they unique? Like, if you write this, you cannot mistake it for another one on the list.

Oh, it's... Okay, is this to do with, like, the kids turning an F into an A? Oh! Keep going, Alec! Keep going! Sneaky little kids! Okay, so this would be basically impossible to alter into another grade. Yes. Yes, it would. And so it's an anti-cheating measure, basically.

That's why it's O2, because if you just wrote 2... Could be 7-ish. Well, it could be 12. It could be the top. Oh yeah, and put a 1. Yeah. Yes, absolutely right. It's like that font on European license plates. Yes, so you can't turn one letter into another easily.

That was a fact I recently learned about how much of Europe there's private companies that produce license plates. And that feels so weirdly not European. Because here it's the state that does that. And so you get, it's a government thing and it just feels so weird to me that the process of manufacturing license plates has been privatized. I mean, in America, notoriously that's being done by prisoners. So I feel like you still... Not always. That kind of feels like it's going to get... privatized. license plates for countries as if they were like American license plates, and figuring out the iconic flora and fauna and the iconic buildings that you would have. Oh, that's lovely.

I'm like, that's what the internet should be about. But they can't be read by our automated surveillance systems, so they can't be allowed. Sadly. Yes, this is a list specifically chosen to make it as hard as possible for students to alter the grades to make them look more flattering. So in theory, you can add a line to a one to make a 7, you can close up the curve on a 6 to make an 8, and yes, that leading zero is there to stop a 2 becoming a 12. Absolutely right. Well done everyone. You all score 12 for that question.

Yay! Next question comes from Dan. This question has been sent in by Jared Pike, so thank you very much Jared for this. At a major American football game in the 2010s, why might you see orange sleeve-length gloves crossed in front of Dick Shafter's chest? What? One more time there. I'll read that again. Don't know why you're giggling. At a major American football game in the 2010s, why might you see orange sleeve length gloves

crossed in front of Dick Shafter's chest? Don't look at me. I know I'm the American here, but don't look at me. I have no idea. I think I feel like you've stumped us from the very start. What a question. Just think, I feel like you've stumped us from the very start. What a question. Just occasionally, the writers for Lateral will drop in a stupid name, and I had to read out Dick Trickler's helmet in front of a live audience for the one live show we've done. And Dick Shafter's chest. Alright, fine.

So, is it important that we know who this fellow is? Is like his job or his... whatever is important? Yeah, I would say so, yes. So going back to the first thing that got me to move quickly, the visual of that would be like a bright orange X. Yes, yes it would. So... Or a V, depending on where he puts his... if it's sleeve-length gloves, it's a V or

an X that he's holding up in front of it. I don't think it's a big virtual tic-tac-toe game, but maybe it would signify, like, disagreement with a referee or something? Yeah, does American football have something like VAR, Alec, where they do, like, video assistant referee and they check stuff after it happens. I think so, but I'm not the right person to ask. Yeah, there's flags on the play all the time. You can request things, yeah.

Is Dick Shaft a really famous person and I just don't know who this man is? Is he like, oh, he's obviously the most obvious quarterback in the NFL, blah blah blah, and everyone's going to be laughing at me? Or is it like a... I know enough American football to know that I don't think Dick Shafter is that famous. I feel like I would have heard of Dick Shafter. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They are a real person, but not necessarily famous in that sense. Alright.

Did you tell us the position of the person? I did not. No. He might not be a player, though. I mean, we're assuming he's a player, but he could be like a coach or a referee or like a fan. Oh, he's just one of those people in the stands who tries to put off whoever's punting or whoever's putting a field goal.

It's just, it's too far away for that, though. Which, that's basketball. I'm thinking basketball and free throws. If you ever go to a college basketball game or something like that, the fans will absolutely pull all sorts of stunts to just try and put off the person who has to make the free throw. But I don't know, punting in American football is too far for that. Is the crossing the chest the only sign?

Is this like, this is one thing that happens and like, this is it? Or is it like one of many, like we were saying about like the different hand signs in the earlier question? Is it like there could, he does a bunch of stuff with his cool gloves? I am not sure of the exact gesture, but there is one gesture in particular that is useful. So he's not just cold? He's wearing them for warmth. I mean, this is like the sign for stop, normally. Yeah.

I feel like if you're doing the cross... Stop or no or wrong. But I've never seen an umpire in an NFL game wear sleeve-length orange gloves. They normally just gesture up for field goal or have something... I don't know what the missed field goal is, it might be a cross or something like that, but why would you wear the bright orange gloves? The other bit of the question is 2010s. I don't know if there was some new tech or old tech or something about the 2010s that was specific,

or whether this guy was just kind of an icon and just decided to do this and it was, like, a fun tradition? It could be that he's retired or something like that. There's now someone else doing his job and his name is not Dick Shafter. What about snow? Because I know in some sports the equipment changes in snow. They have to use, like, a bright orange ball or a bright orange something. And maybe Dick Shafter is in the cold parts of America

and has gloves so it can be seen through the snowstorms in winter matches. The weather is irrelevant here. Ah. This is a kind of signal. Have we established that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

People who might need to signal during a game are like... I feel like we've done players who are like, maybe there's like a, he's like a player who's like, I feel like in America they're called something of the type of player who decides during the game, like what plays they're going to do. So maybe it's like a sign that they do that the rest of the team knows.

And then they like do that play or referee, or umpire who's deciding about something. They also have the coaches on the sidelines. The person who actually decides the tactical move is off the pitch, just kind of in radio comes with the quarterback. So it could be a gesture like, ignore everything I'm saying, just go with what you want, like we're just trying to confuse the other team here. So you're right that the gesture is going to be important, but I will say that Dick Shafter was not a player. Nor was he a match official.

Did he work, was he either a fan then that leaves, or someone who worked for like the stadium. Would this be something to do with the broadcasting team? Is it someone who decides when ads happen? Is it like a really American thing where he's the person who like signals to the... to like whoever is doing... like the umpires like we need to stop play because this is when ads need to happen after this next like goal or whatever. Because like they they have ads during the Super Bowl right like so they do ads during games but you wouldn't be able to like stop the game and it still is going on and people

and like the scores continuing and they just come back after a commercial break like oh by the way you missed all of that so is it like someone who decides when there's ads? It is exactly that it is to indicate so they don't decide when the ads happen, that'll be a network decision, but it is so that they could indicate to the match officials when it is time to go to a commercial and just pause play. Normally, it's the match officials doing all the signaling, you know, touchdown, that sort of thing. This is not that.

This is someone to signal to the match officials. That was, I was like, the little clue, I feel like with all these questions, it's like every little aspect is a little clue. And I was like, America and the, and the football and the Super Bowl and the like, what do I actually know about this? Basically nothing except for how iconic the, the fact that there are ads. So I was like, okay, it must be a thing that there are ads during these games. And I've always wondered about that, basically nothing except for how iconic the fact that there are ads. So I was like, okay, it must be a thing that there are ads during these games. And I've always wondered about that, like, how you do it whether people just miss bits of games. But this makes so much sense. It's like, especially because American football starts and stops so frequently that it would be pretty easy to be like, okay, after this play, just like, stop here.

Well, they'll know when the long pauses and short pauses will be. So it might be something as simple as, we're not back from ads yet. stop here? Well, they'll know when the long pauses and short pauses will be. So it might be something as simple as, we're not back from ads yet. Or some of them just don't keep going. Because I know the later you get in the Super Bowl, the fewer ads there are, because they can only guarantee a certain amount of slots. So it might just be, just hold, hold, we're nearly back, we're nearly back, we're nearly back, alright, you're good to go.

Why the gloves though? Is he like up in a big box somewhere with the broadcaster? It feels very eccentric to use gloves rather than like a light. The light might be a little bit too distracting maybe for the players. So Dick Schafter was working as the timeout producer for ESPN's Monday Night Football.

His distinctively large, brightly coloured gloves allowed him to attract the attention of the on-field umpire. When the TV production team want to go to a commercial, Dick would then cross his arms to indicate this before the next break in play would happen. Which just leaves the question I asked at the start of the show. In the Spanish media, who does Carlos Guillermo and Enrique usually refer to? Before I give this one to the audience, does anyone want to take a shot at it?

Carlos is Charles? Guillermo is that William? Enrique? Rick? Who's Charles, William and Rick? That sounds like the royal family. Or is it Harry instead? Is it something royal? Yes, you're absolutely right. That is the British royal family. Spanish media often, though not always, translates foreign royal names into the local equivalents. So you have El Rey Carlos, his sons Guillermo and Enrique, then you have Jorge and Carlota, Luis, and you also have Princess of Wales, Catalina. Oh, that's lovely. Sometimes, not always, the Spanish version of the name will be used there.

Congratulations to all our players. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives? We will start with Alec. I am on YouTube at Technology Connections, or YouTube.com, however that works, just search me. And I'm also on Blue Sky lately, but that's kind of it. Rowan.

You can find me on YouTube if you search for Rowan Ellis, or on any podcast app of your choice if you search Queer Movie Podcast. Dan. You can find me on social media and YouTube and the like, search for Quizzy Dan. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at Lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast. Thank you very much to Dan Peake. Thank you very much.

Rowan Ellis. Thank you. Alec Watson. Hi, thank you. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.