Lateral with Tom Scott - 131: Very happy mice

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Ella Hubber, Caroline Roper and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything!' face questions about swing speeds, blurted brands and clever coins. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. Join the Producer's Club via https://members.lateralcast.com for ad-free episodes and bonus content. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Dylan, Rex S., Chris Richards, Adam, Dan T.. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What everyday device has adjustments for swing speed and latch speed? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott and this is Lattery. We know it's going to be a fun episode today because we are welcoming back some regular guests, the gang from Let's Learn Everything! Aw, yay! Hi! Hello! Hello, Aw, yay! Hi! Hello!

Wow! I can't wait to find out that in this recording block you say that for every single one. And also, Ella and Caroline, we had the pleasure of meeting at the live show in London. Oh my goodness! Yes! You're real! Yes! I was, so are you!

We got a selfie with the wrong Tom, just to annoy your listeners. Yeah. And actually, on that topic, I do have a public appeal to make to our listeners. At the live show, there was a very expensive lateral sign made for the set. However, at the end of the show, only the T, R and A letters were remaining. If anyone knows the whereabouts of the letters E, L, L and A, then please do get in touch with the show. So, back with you, Ella, what were we talking about?

Gosh, that's weird, isn't it? Wow, that's them. That's crazy. It's really weird. That sign made by producer David in his shed with polystyrene and hot wire. Thank you, David. It's with polystyrene and hot wire. Thank you, David. It's made a lovely addition to my home. We should probably plug the podcast. Tell me about Let's Learn Everything.

Which one of us? All of us in sync? At the same time. Are we even practicing? I normally throw it at each of you. I should also introduce you by name. Caroline Roper. Hello! Let's Learn Everything. Yeah, so it's a show where we try to learn about anything and everything interesting. I should also introduce you by name, Caroline Roper. Hello! Let's learn everything. Yeah, so it's a show where we try to learn about anything and everything interesting.

We talk about a science topic and a miscellaneous topic, but the other hosts don't know what we're going to talk about, so it's all a lovely learning experience. What sort of topics? Tom Lum? Um, we've covered things like black holes, tattoos, that was actually the same episode, was black holes and tattoos, I love a good double pairing like that. We've interviewed the latest batch of Ig Nobel winners. We've had a friend of yours, Tom Scott, on Gretchen McCulloch, the wonderful linguist. So yeah, we learn about a lot of different things.

And Ella Hubba, I haven't got a question for you because it was going to be what are you talking about soon? And I realised you're literally not allowed to say that. Do you want to guess, guys? Do you want to have a guess what I'm going to talk about? Throw some ideas out. This is just a trick to get new ideas. I know this one. I've done this before.

Well as the producer padlocks the studio equipment to various immovable objects, let us secure our passage to question one. Won't stop me. Thank you to Adam for this question. During filming, why would a K-pop idol sometimes shout, Nike Adidas Puma? I'll say that again. During filming, why would a K-pop idol sometimes shout,

Nike Adidas Puma? Thank you for getting the UK and US pronunciations from there, it was great. It is rare to have a question with three separate pronunciations that... It's not even a UK-US thing. Both countries say both to some extent, the UK is more divided. I've heard both. Well, because it's funny, because when you first said the question it was complete nonsense and then the second time it's like, oh, I can understand...

Also, every time I say it's a US the second time, I was like, oh, I can understand. No. Also, every time I say it's a US-UK distinction, I get complaints from Australians, Canadians, and the rest of the English-speaking world. I will say that is a transatlantic difference. Guys, if we keep pulling fun facts out of Tom Scott, we won't have to answer their questions. We can just have this be a regular conversation. I almost forgot for a second that we have to answer this. I was like, that's so interesting.

It reminds me of this fun fact about a... Are there any other shoe brands, Tom, that have a distinction? Actually, the brands here are not important. Others would work. And also the pronunciation is not important either. No, I deliberately pronounced it both ways. Okay. Because my first thought was like,

they're like fishing around to see which sponsor they can get. So they're just like saying all of them in the hopes that they'll get one of them. But if the brand's not important, then it can't be that. Ella has accused me of like, if I wear my Moona shirt being like, they're not going to notice Tom. It's because Tom wore a hat for a game that we like in a TikTok and they approached him and I was like, come on. Once again, what a great conversation to have with just TomSka and that's what this podcast

is about. Yeah, it's just us having a chat, right? Should we figure out the question? I thought this was a like, like theater pronunciation warmup, like unique New-up, like, unique New York. You know, unique New York. Yeah, everybody, very body, and so on. You were actually closer with the earlier topic, Tom. Was it Caroline's shout about how, like, they were ads

or trying to attract average... Oh, oh, is this... Could this be, like, Oh, is this... could this be like saying copyrighted names so that they can't use a take or something like that? Yes. Yes, it can be. Oh! Keep talking, why might they suddenly start shouting that? This is on set, did you say?

Yeah, filming, right? Something? Yes. During filming. You've basically got it, but talk me through the thought process there. Why would they suddenly start shouting brand names? They, like, messed up in an embarrassing way. Yeah. And they don't want that to be aired.

And it can't be if it's... That's the last part of it, yes. They know that their management will not allow footage of unauthorized endorsements to be released. Unauthorized endorsements. I love the idea that this carries over into regular life, and so any time you're about to swear, you're just like, Disney! Oh, my toe!

Also, I think what we've learnt here is that the chit chat actually truly does make us answer that so quickly. There are other approaches to this as well. Particularly, maybe a longer time ago in Britain, this was a technique that other people might use. Just flashing a nipple. What would the verbal equivalent of that be? Swearing? Yes. Are we allowed to swear in this podcast?

Because that'll— You will, but it will be bleeped. Okay, so it won't get me out of saying anything stupid. Anything embarrassing. But that is a trick that politicians and people who had media training were taught in sort of the 50s and 60s. Ah! Is that if you don't want the take to be used, if you said something stupid,

just immediately go into swearing and they won't, can't use it. Obviously, it is many years later, that has changed now. But there is still a show where something like that happened. It's a very, very nice British show. Great British Bake Off? Yes. Yeah. Yes.

So I've heard of this. When the contestants were crying, were getting upset, the hosts, Mel and Sue, didn't want them to be filmed. They didn't want them to be seen like that. So they would start going over and swearing and being really rude and it couldn't be aired. It's such a nice thing to do. That's so lovely. Hey, hey, F word, hey, don't worry. Hey, hey, yes. Yes, this is why a K-pop idol might shout some brand names.

They are trying to avoid an embarrassing mistake being released. Each of our players has a question with them as ever. We're going to start with Ella. This question has been sent in by Rex S. In 1978, Ken Wallner wrote a biography of Claude Emile Jean-Baptiste Lieta. Though it was an April Fools prank, how could it have helped avoid confusion? I'll say that again. In 1978, Ken Walner wrote a biography of Claude Emile John Baptiste Lieter. Though it was an April Fool's prank, how could it have helped avoid confusion? I know that that last line is helpful context. I love, there's nothing better in one of these

questions than the last line that makes you like go like, wait, what? Wait, we're talking about what? What? I did a re-evaluate every word you just said. Thank you for your second thought. Can I ask what year it was again? 1978. 1978, okay. I tried to take notes of the name and I wrote down the initials

and what I got was C-E-J-B-L. And that is not helpful. CJ. I mean, the name is definitely helpful, but not maybe... Oh, dang it. Not maybe the whole thing. Claude Emile Jean-Baptiste Lieter. Is it Lieter like the unit of measurement?

Yeah. That's how it's spelled, yeah. So is it something to do with units of measurement? I mean, that's a thing that confuses a lot of people. Yeah. And the biographer was Ken, which sounds very American. Admittedly, that's because I'm thinking Barbie and Ken, but Ken is a name I associate with a very different culture to Claude-Emile Jean-Baptiste.

Yeah. Yeah. This is my friend Claude-Emile Jean-Baptiste, and this is Ken. Yeah. Sorry to any Ken's, I didn't mean to make your name sound that bland. How did—it's an April Fool's prank—how did it avoid confusion? And 1970s—so this is pre-internet, so that throws away some of the memes I would be thinking of, but my first thought is because

of the names, if the names are a clue, if this is like something, a similar trick to like how the Vampire Weekend song, Apunk, was like the top, a huge hit because it was like the first alphabetically. So, so it would be like the first alphabetically. So... Wait, what? It would be like the first to play. Yeah, so their song, it's A-punk, like A-space-punk, and because of that on iTunes,

when you would like plug it into a car or something, it's the first song alphabetically. And so it would... So many people know it as like the first song that plays when you like connect to a car or start your iPod back then. I saw someone who had created a song that was just called A-A-A-A-A-A-A. Yeah. Just so when you plugged your iPod into the old car stereo, it would not just play the

same song every time. I mean, it's a nice thought. It's not quite there. The name is important, but the surname is the most important thing here. The surname is Leta. 1978 is about when countries were deciding on switching to metric. Fascinating. And America was sort of heading that way and then didn't. Britain was sort of heading that way and ended up in a horrible mess between the two. But I do wonder if that was a topic

that was popular right then. No, no. It's not about the metrics switch. I was like, is this a way to counter programming to be like, oh, the person who invented the leader was this person, and then make a fake biography about how they're a horrible person. And so it's like, oh, the leader inventor was actually... It is though about, I mean, there's a vein of the correct answer in there, that it is about how we use measurements, or units of measurement.

The liter is the average amount that one man, Claude Liter, could urinate in one go. That's the absolute... I was really hoping that by the time my brain got to the word urinate in that sentence, I'd have something better. A better answer? But I couldn't think of any other thing to do with the body that would be about a liter. Tom, I would not have pulled that trigger if urination was my fallback answer. I would not have jumped if that was my fallback.

You made me think, though, is it actually a book? Or is it something shaped like a book? No, no, it's actually a biographical article that was written. Right, okay, not a physical book. It's one of those April Fool's pranks that appears in newspapers and things like that, okay. Right. The content of the article is really not that important. It's the fact that it exists at all that Wal-No was using to try and make a very pedantic

point. Is it just like to correct people's spelling or something? On the right lines? Because Leeta is spelled two different ways. He was just in an argument with his partner and decided that a fake biography would settle it in his favour, that Leta was a real person. He died having never done the dishes or laundry and lived a happier life, he said. You hit on a point there that this made Lita a real person in air quotations.

That was important to his point. Because, I mean, my brain just goes to like, you could cite it then in Wikipedia, but this is before this time. It's something like, oh gosh, is it to do with spelling and pronunciation? Because maybe to... Not spelling, but how it is written. It is to do with how it's written. Capitalization? Oh.

Oh! Line. Because it was still up for debate then, in every style guide, about whether you capitalize units that are named after people. Yes, exactly. Oh! Oh! The what, the om, the volt, they're all named after people. Yes, exactly! Oh!

The Watt, the Ohm, the Volt, they're all named after people. Yes! Wow! Is the litre not? The litre is not. It's not named after a real person. So the point of Woolner writing this biography, this fake biography, was so that the L for litre could be used as a capital, as an uppercase L, rather than as a lowercase

L. Hey guys, that's not okay! What? That doesn't solve the issue! A group of US scientists at the time had proposed that the unit for liter should be written as an uppercase L, since the lowercase version had the potential to be confused with the number one. Yep.

Oh, yeah. But because units, international standard units, SI units, are named after a person, are usually abbreviated to a capital letter such as A for Ampere or K for Kelvin, that didn't apply to things that weren't named after people. So Woolner wrote this as a naïve fool's joke to kind of justify using a capital L for litre. If you'd like to support the show and get an ad-free feed, some behind the scenes stuff, and frankly quite a lot of bonuses, you can join the Lateral Producers Club. And here is Producer David to tell you about it. Thanks Tom. The Producers Club is for anyone who wants a bit more lateral in their lives.

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Go to members.lateralcast.com to join in the fun. Or just go to the main lateralcast.com website and click on the link. Hope to see you there. This question comes from Dan T. Thank you, Dan. In 2013, the United States Mint released a 25-cent coin that featured the same face on both sides. Who did the face belong to, and why was this coin minted? I'll say that again. In 2013, the United States Mint released a 25-cent coin that featured the same face on both sides.

Who did the face belong to, and why was this coin minted? You see, when I hear that, because we have a monarch on one side of our coins, I would just be like, it's just the same, it's the monarch, it's the same person on both sides, but obviously that doesn't apply here. So who's normally on your coins, Tom? That was my question. here. So what's who's normally on your coins, Tom? That was my question. Oh, to lie or to tell the truth is my predicament. Yeah, one side's usually so they also it alternates on every even year they'll print like a Marvel superhero and then on odd years they'll do a DC superhero usually. Wow, I say that because my first joke was it was going to be a two

face coin, the one where he flips his heads on both sides. What year again was this? 2013. 2013. That is when I feel like recently they've been doing a lot more fun stuff with quarters. When I was a kid, they started doing like states. So they would every few years they would release some more states on the back.

So I mean the quarter, the front side is George Washington and then the backside is an eagle. states. So they would every few years they would release some more states on the back. So I mean, the quarter of the front side is George Washington and then the back sides in Eagle. And so it's usually usually presidents Abraham Lincoln's on the penny. So it's not I assume it's not just George Washington on both sides because that would be Yes, one one and then and then on the back is the silly one. It's like... Yeah. You're actually not that far away there. You have identified the person.

Oh. Oh. Okay. I had so many other things to go for there. But good. But it would be strange for them to just do a double Washington coin. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I assume it's some kind of anniversary or event. It's actually not. The year isn't important here. Is it a state coin, Tom? It's not a state coin, but it definitely... What state were you thinking of, Tom? Was it one of the Dakotas? It was one of the Dakotas, and I think you might have solved it.

Okay, I'll step back. Yeah. I don't think that'll be a hint to them, but I think you might have solved it. Okay, I'll step back. Yeah. I don't think that'll be a hint to them, but I think I think I... No. Oh no, is this some American history thing we have to get here? It's not American history so much as it's one of the, like... It is an icon of America. Yes, that's a great way to put it.

So on one side is George Washington. On the other side, I mean, technically, also George Washington. And maybe some other people? And maybe some other people. Oh, it's the... That mountain with the president's pencil? Mount Rushmore? It's Mount Rushmore, yes! Oh, thank goodness.

Geez, that's bad that I didn't remember that. I was like, I said that and then I was like, Yes! Oh, thank goodness. Geez, that's bad that I didn't remember that. I was like, I said that and then I was like, is George Washington on Mount Rushmore? I can't remember. It's George Washington in, like, a family portrait. They put the other Hokage's on there, so that's who's on the rest, that's just a quick narrative joke for the other nerds. Nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You committed to it and I'm proud of you for that. Yeah. Yes, the other faces are Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. But this was a US quarter that technically had George Washington on both sides. Caroline, it is your question. This question has been sent in by Dylan. Why is there a large elongated black oval painted on a McDonnell Douglas CF-18 fighter jet and how is it inspired by a snake? I'll say that again. You're gonna have to say that again. And slower this time please. Why is there a large elongated black oval painted on a McDonnell Douglas CF-18 fighter jet?

And how is it inspired by a snake? In my head, this is one of those planes where they paint on the side the enemy aircraft they have shot down. And they shot down a UFO. And that's also what snakes do. When they kill their prey, it sublimates into their skin. Oh, that would be creepy if that was a biological thing. I don't like that at all.

So yeah, you're both absolutely spot on. Very clear though. That's a hack we should do now is we should, whenever one of us gets the answer right, we're, we should, whenever one of us gets the answer right, be like, yeah, perfectly. Is that all out of your, the Tom system? Good. Okay. If this feels like a force perspective kind of thing is my immediate thought here.

Like a, you know, when you see like an elongated oval from a certain perspective, it looks like a full circle or can look smaller, depending on the angle you're looking at it from. Great shout. Yeah. And I assume like a cobra, a cobra's head is like the shape of that is probably when you look at that from different angles, it looks like a different shape or size. Caroline, please let this be right. Just let us live in this. It's so great. Like, like dazzle camouflage. Like, navies used to paint ships with strange stripes and strange colors. Not as camouflage, but so that submarines couldn't get a good lock on how far away they were, and just to confuse onlookers.

And also, just like other biomimicry, I believe inspired by zebras? If not, very similar to the zebra movement. And you know what? That is very along the right sort of lines. Very along the right sort of lines. Also, good use of the word biomimicry, Tom. So the mutual Tom appreciation society is going to continue for a little while here. We did a topic on LLE about that recently. Check it out. Yeah. Also, Caroline, you would make a wonderful teacher if someone gives a wrong answer and you

say that's so fantastically similarly close to the right line. Oh, that's almost so nearly there, but just not. How along the right lines, is this a biomimicry thing? Yes, it is a sort of biomimicry thing. Wow. Biomimicry thing, yeah. Is it a cobra? I actually don't know if there's a specific snake in mind. Oh, okay, so it's not about the head shape of a cobra then?

That's all the only— Oh, that's a shame, because I just remembered, like, Sidewinder missiles. And I was like, oh, that's a snake warfare connection. No, it didn't. Also, you said this was a CF-18... It's not a military jet, or is it a transport plane? It's a... It's a military plane.

Military plane, okay. Are we talking, like, big old tanker here? Are we talking, like, fighter jet? Very, yeah, fighter jet. Very, very... It's a MacDonald Douglas CF-18 fighter jet, is the jet in question. Does it make it look like the plane's got a big hole in it? It doesn't make the plane look...

Wait, I'm just... I'm just trying anyway. It doesn't make the plane look like it has a big hole in it, but it does make the plane look like it has a big hole in it, but it does make the plane look like there's... Luke As a snake! Sarah There's a snake in my plane! Again, you're sort of along the right lines of trying to make it look like something. Luke It doesn't look like a fighter jet. It looks like... Sarah Oh, no, it definitely still looks like

a fighter jet. I mean, does it? I'm just trying to imagine, like, if you're looking at a stretched out oval, it's about... It is the forced perspective idea, right? That's my thought. That the oval looks different, like, sizes and shapes? No. It's not to do with forced perspective. No. I really have no idea. Is it just one? Well, so it is just one elongated oval.

Where is it? It has got, I will say, so it's an elongated oval. It's got a single stripe across it as well. That's the same colour as the rest of the plane. Tom, you just asked a really interesting question. Where is it? Is it on the wings? Is it down the middle of it?

On the top? On the tail, maybe? Does it look like the backs of the wings? Is it down the middle of it? On the top? On the tail, maybe? Does it look like the backs of the engines? No. Fighter jets have, oh, okay, big holes on the back, I was thinking. So it looks like they're bigger or more open than they are? It doesn't make it look like the engine, but what else could an elongated oval maybe look like? Especially thinking about where it's positioned again.

Oh, could it look like a missile? No. A window? Oh, a window. A window to where? The soul. The soul. We've been doing this podcast together for three years, baby.

To the cockpit. Yeah. Oh, it's on the back of the plane and it makes you can't tell if it's going backwards or forwards. Oh my god, Ella! It's not if you can tell if it's going backwards or forwards. It's like where snakes have fake eyes, right? Sometimes? It's very, very closely linked to snakes markings, like, and where their head is specifically. So do you want to finish that thought? That was the whole thought that snakes have like, they have like eye-looking markings

sometimes that mean you can't really tell what its head is. But if you can't, if these are windows, it's supposed to make it look like the cockpit, then I assume you just can't tell where the front of the plane is. It's not necessarily where the front of the plane is because obviously the plane isn't like symmetrical going forwards and backwards. It's going to be top and bottom so you can't tell if it's right side up or upside down. Oh wow. Fascinating. That's exactly right. Yes, the McDonnell Douglas CF-18 fighter jet has this elongated oval painted on the underside of it. So that if you are somebody else in another plane looking at it, you can't tell if that's the cockpit or if it's the other

side of the cockpit. And therefore it's much harder to figure out which direction the plane is going to go in or how the pilot's going to fly it basically. I feel like I'd be able to tell. So Ella, you talked about snakes. I will talk about one specific snake that's here as an example. So yeah, some snakes do use this as a sort of camouflage confusion tactic. There is the thick-tailed sea snake, for example, that has a set of markings on their tail, or it has the same markings on their tail as their head. So it basically makes it harder to tell which direction the snake's going to go.

Next one's from me, folks. Good luck. While roadworks took place on the A6 in Derbyshire, England, why did someone erect a sign saying MICE VERY HAPPY? I'll say that again. While roadworks took place on the A6 in Derbyshire, England, why did someone erect a sign saying, Mice Very Happy? Obviously, because the mice were happy. Duh. Like, come on. This isn't that... Mice Very Happy. So either this is some kind of weird code for something else, or the mice literally are happy. So...

Yeah. Let's run with one of those. Let's pick one and run with it. I was going to say this as a joke and the be like, this is a like road work ahead. I sure hope it does thing, but I'm starting to think it might. I could not stop thinking road work ahead. I'm sure I'm sure hope it does the whole time. I think it could be a wordplay thing like that that. That's my concern, is it might actually be. So the guesses between you are weird code,

the mice are literally happy, or wordplay thing. I'll tell you it's one of those. Yay! So cheese would make them genuinely happy. Does it matter what kind of roadworks are happening? Yes. The layout of the road was being altered. Was it a warning that people might be upsetting the mice through the roadworks and they needed

reassurance that actually they are happy about it? Don't worry. They're fine. They're okay. It's fine. Guys, this, this total shot in the dark, but if it is, it's true. It's amazing. If it's not, it's a great plug for our show.

Because we did a topic, Caroline did a briefly mentioned about how mice enjoy driving cars. I think that was rats enjoy driving cars, which they do. It's scientifically proven. And so part of me was wondering, is this not a real road? Is this like a road for mice who are driving cars and it says mice very happy because they are happy enjoying driving their mouse cars. This was the A6 in Derbyshire, a human-sized, human-used road. Okay, mice can use it though.

However, I will clue you in that of the three options, Tom, you are very much closer. The sign was next to a more official road sign. Is it like half a word each, and there's three words on one sign and you get like... And then when you attach, when you put the two signs together, it makes three full words? Or it makes a sentence that... Something mice, something very, something happy, all the other way around. Like a don't-dare-open-inside situation?

Yes. Not quite. It was two separate signs, but you're starting to think the right way here. Is this an unofficial sign, then? Oh yes. Oh yes. Cool. So is there a sign nearby about mice? Or that could be read as the word mice being in there? Part of me was like, is this like a deer crossing sign?

Like is this where they're actually like natural or they're wild mice there? And this is sort of like a... Is it something to do with cat's eyes? Keep going, Ella. Oh. With what? I'm sorry, what? Tom won't know what those are. Oh, they're little reflective things on the road. When the light shines in, it shines back out, like as in a cat's eye.

We have them... The little road reflective markers that you see as you go down. Retroreflectors. The term for that in quite a few countries is cat's eyes. Cat's eyes down. Cat's eyes broken. Cat's eyes... Cat's eyes removed.

Removed. Ella, you set it up. Caroline, you knocked it home. The first sign says, cat's eyes removed, as a warning to motorists. Nice! And just behind it, someone put up a sign that said, mice very happy. That's nice. That's cute.

I like that. I'll take, can I say a quick plug if you, and if you want to learn about the other reason mice were happy driving cars, you could listen to our holiday episode. Too much plugging this episode. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, never enough. Toml sorry, sorry, sorry. No, never enough. Tomlom over to you. Wonderful.

This question has been sent in by Chris Richards. Jess was so frustrated with defeating a video game boss, a wily old special forces sniper called The End, that she rage quit. When she turned her console back on two weeks later, Jess was no longer frustrated. Why? I'll read that again. Jess was so frustrated with defeating a video game boss, a wily old special forces sniper called The End, that she rage quit. When she turned her console back on two weeks later, Jess was no longer frustrated. Why? She'd gotten a lot of rest and recuperation at the time of the dream.

Drank some water, you know? Yeah. That's it, cries. David, suck this one in just as a reminder to everyone to drink your water. Go walk outside a little bit. Here's from us, the lateral. It's a good joke. I like this.

Is it like something to do with the video game mechanic is like having patience and waiting or something like that? I don't think it's it's patience and waiting, but I think you are very close thinking about sort of game mechanics and I'll say no more. The boss, the boss is a sniper, you said. Yes. Can we know more about like the style of boss battle this is? Is it like a traditional boss battle or is it like you're looking for someone? You are very spot on that it's not a traditional boss battle. This isn't like a big enemy health bar and you're whacking away at him.

This is definitely an atypical boss battle from a game. And can I just confirm also that she turned the console off, she didn't leave it running in the background. Correct. I remember reading an article somewhere about a game where there's like an alternate ending. Like the initial setup is you're left in a room and someone says, I'll be back in ten minutes. And obviously every player immediately leaves and goes exploring, But should you stay there for ten minutes, he comes back. That's Far Cry.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I know what you're thinking of, but that's... I think you're thinking in a similar vein to a similar... The fact that she turned the console off tells me the only thing that could have changed would be the console time in between her, you know, playing the two weeks. So the time passing had something to do with how you defeat the boss. Good thinking.

He died of starvation. Really? Waiting? That is just rude from the game developers though, isn't it? Like, I really want to finish this game. unlucky, you've got to wait two weeks. Yeah. Do you say what console it is, and is that relevant at all? Not super relevant.

I believe it was the PS2. I could be wrong, it's around that era. And it's a well-known video game. Oh, this is a console though, not like a PC game. Okay. Yes, I believe so. Or at least it was most popular on consoles. Um, and this is, yeah, this is a relatively well-known game.

Um, this isn't, uh, but boy is it a strange one. Is it that you have to tr- you have to find the boss, right? You have to travel to the boss on like public transport or something? Or like a- Oh! Or you're on a boat? You have to wait for the boat to reach the other side. You guys are thinking, and also all game designers take notes on these. These are great ideas. You're right that this boss battle involves finding the opponent. I think it's in a forest

or something. I'll describe who the opponent is is one last time and maybe that will give you the final hint you need. So this is a the the the boss is named the end and they are described here as a wide wildly old special forces sniper. I'll say one of those words in there is very helpful. Wiley and old sniper special forces. You said Whyly and Old Sniper Special Forces. You said one of them. You said the one on your list. What is somewhere there? You said it. I mean, the fact that his name is The End seems like it could be... You just have to wait for the end of the game. I will say, Caroline, you did say Patience earlier. And I think that,

I will say, Caroline, you did say patience earlier, and I think that, as I'm thinking about it more, is pretty true to what is happening here. In terms of you can, the player can use patience to defeat this boss. Did she accidentally do the right thing by turning the console off? Again, something that is in the back of my head somewhere is a video game where you had to reset the game to continue. It gives some, like, weird hack. That's like a Zelda puzzle, but when you, like, you have to close the DS to solve it, it has to be pressed together, and people would not figure out until they rage-shut it.

Oh, fun! And they opened it up and it solved it. Is it some weird hack like that, where they're using, like... Is it outside what people would expect to be the design of the game? Absolutely, this is really weird. You expect your only interaction with the game to be through the controller and within the world. This is something that breaks out of the world of the game.

And this game series has done a few of these actually before, but yeah, I will say, combined with Caroline's patience and Ella saying that the person died of starvation, I'll say that by the end of the two weeks, the boss is dead. He's old because of age. No way. No. So this is from Metal Gear Solid 3, Snake Eater, I believe. And the premise of this boss is he is like a very, very old special forces sniper, and his last dying wish is he wants to fight Snake.

And so... The main character. The protagonist of the game, yeah. And so you... And to Tom's point, there are multiple ways to do this. You can take him on. But one of the ways that they decided you could defeat this boss is to turn the game off. Wait, either either wait two weeks or set your game's calendar two weeks ahead and come

back in. And then what happens is that there's a little cinematic that plays where like Snake finds him And he's like there and he goes he's like put your weapon down and then he like pokes him and then he just falls over And then there's a really there's a kind of interesting moment where Snake You know goes on comms and then they're like good job snake and he goes I feel like I kind of let him down He was like he thought his last wish was to fight me. And I kind of chickened out. Like I disappointed him.

It's quite dishonorable to do it that way. Yeah. And some people have said that this was actually like a very interesting, meaningful fight. One bonus fact in this fight, originally Hideo Kojima, who developed this, or who was one of the lead developers on this, wanted the actual fight to take place over two weeks, originally. Because he was big into those sniper movies at the time, where you're waiting in a hill and you reposition,

and then you move around, and you just spend forever trying to take out one person. So this was actually much more merciful than what was originally going to happen. In the game Metal Gear Solid 3, a character called The End is a legendary sniper over a hundred years old. His dying wish is to fight Snake, the game's protagonist. The battle against him is difficult but can be avoided altogether entirely if the player

simply waits for more than one week of real time, and when the game is reloaded, the narrative reveals that the end has simply died of old age. Which means we just have the question from the start of the show to deal with. What everyday device has adjustments for swing speed and latch speed? Anyone want to take a guess at that? Everyday device. Is it an every-person device or just an everyday device for some people? You will see these regularly.

I'm looking around. I'm looking around. It's often poorly adjusted. I love Ella's looking around like cats, stolen lateral sign letters. Also, clearly none of you have been watching Technology Connections lately. Alec was on recently, and he has done a whole video on these things. Oh, no! Uh, I have watched some Air Fryers.

Um, uh... Don't you tell me, Tom Scott! You said these things are always poorly adjusted, and all I can think of... Not always, but they often are. Often. You said that these things are always poorly adjusted, and all I can think of... Not always, but they often are. Often. You said that these things are often poorly adjusted, and all I can think of is like, the clock on my oven forever being incorrect. And now that's all I've got in my head. The refrigerator door. That swings and latches.

Now you're very close there, and you're right, this is something that swings and latches. Oh my god. Oh... Oven door? my god. Oh, uh... Oven door? Screen doors? Like, uh, outside doors? Microwave doors? What kind of door will have a swing and latch speed that you can set?

Toilet. Toilet? Toilet? What the hell? That's just so bad. That's been our show, folks. I'm Tom Lumb. You know.

I'm sorry. Don't forget to latch your toilets! Close! Make sure no one gets in! God damn it. Look, someone else tried. There's a particular thing that gets attached to doors that some doors have that others don't. Like an emergency escape door? Like a, uh... They have those, like, hinges up at the top?

Yes. I don't know what they are, though. I've never actually... You know what? That is close enough. It is the sort of self-closing doors. The ones that automatically swing and latch shut. Oh, swing and... Yes. Oh. Fine.

Oh, fair enough. This is a door closer. One of those automatic hinge things that's on the top of a door in a hotel or something like that, where it swings slowly shut and then clunk, latches at the end. That has a swing speed and a latch speed. I have seen those everywhere, yeah. And if there are any of those doors

that don't close properly or swing so fast they just hit people in the face, the swing speed and the latch speed on those doors is badly controlled. And you know what has one of those also? My toilet. So you can get automatic closing for toilets. You can. Thank you very much to all three of our players. This is always going to be chaotic. Tom Lum, where are you from? The internet. Oh, a podcast called Let's Learn Everything with the three of us. It's a wonderful

show. We've talked about some topics that we've mentioned today. Ella, where can you find it? Let'sLearnEverything.com and all socials with Let's Learn Everything pod. And Caroline, what sort of topics? We have talked about everything from making super heavy elements, to what women's work is, to guitar tabs, to near-earth objects. It can be literally anything. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions.

We are at Lateralcast, basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com slash Lateralcast. Thank you very much to Caroline Roper. Thank you. Ella Hubba. Ka-chow. Tom Rum. Wahoo!

I've been Tom Scott and that's been Lateral.