Lateral with Tom Scott - 35: Selfies with number 57

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

Emily the Engineer, Wren Weichman and Kip Heath face questions about benefit bonuses, stationery sales and plummeting platforms. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: Podcasts NZ Studios. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Lewis Tough, Jackson S. Kilger, Chris Dickson, Mark Moorhead, Katharine Davis, Sky-guided Vulpine Friend. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What eventually contains 178 feet, 81 heads, 46 wings, and 8 udders? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. We've got a bright constellation of guests on the show today, arguably the best all-star lineup since Orion's Belt, so let's see if we're going to be dazzled by their brilliance. First, we have from her own YouTube channel, it is Emily the Engineer. Hello. Welcome back to the show. Last time we had some strange questions in there, including one about violating the Geneva Convention. How are you feeling about being back this time? Yes. You know, now I think I've got, I've got a handle on it a little bit more.

So I'm excited. Next up, it is from Corridor Crew and from Corridor Digital. This time, without the exclamation mark added to his name, we have Ren Whiteman. Thanks for having me.

I just love the enthusiasm and I kind of wish I'd kept it up last time that I just would have kept referring to you as Ren every time. In the rush of the show, I forgot. As long as you just keep it up in real life every time I see you, you got to say it that way every time. You know I'm going to do that if we meet up near VidCon. You know I'm going to come in and just use that exclamation mark all the time

now. Oh, I hope so. And finally, science communicator Kip Heath. Hey. Welcome back to the show. How is work going for you at the moment with the science communication job, with the onstage stuff? How is life now? Hopefully gigs are coming back as a thing. I'm really enjoying it. I was glad to do virtual,

particularly as in my day job, I work as a scientist in a hospital, but face-to-face is more fun. And there's something really depressing about talking to 500 students, but mostly at your own face on a computer screen. Well, thank you for joining us here as we stare at each other's faces on a computer screen spread across, I think, three continents and four different time zones. Thank you for dealing with the inevitable lag as the signal goes round the world.

We have some questions for you that have more twists and turns than a Six Flags rollercoaster, but with none of the enjoyment and all of the nausea. Please ensure your seatbelts are fully fastened as we head up the lift hill of question one. This is sent in by Mark Moorhead, so thank you, Mark.

In 2023, the UK is providing some households with a £900 payment to help with the cost of living. It will arrive as three payments of £301, £300 and £299, respectively. Why? One more time. In 2023, the UK is providing some households with a £900 payment to help with the cost of living. It will arrive as three payments of £301, £300 and £299 respectively. Why? In that order?

Yes. Like the first payment is £301 or the first payment is £299? I believe the first payment is £301. I feel like it might have something to do like with keeping track of what people have received and what people haven't received or something like that i don't know yeah you're definitely on the right lines there right away but why wouldn't you do 300 300 300 because then like if you were paid well i don't know i guess you could see that you got paid 300 twice or something, but... It's like an ID system built into the payment.

I mean, you'll have got it. That is exactly right. Oh, okay. You nailed that. The Brit didn't get it, but the Americans did. Have you ever worked in customer service or something like that before, Emily? Because I feel like that's the sort of thing,

that's the sort of answer that comes to mind of someone who is on the phone and has to deal with people who are shouting at them about missed payments. Honestly, no. And I'm thankful I haven't had to deal with angry people because they scare me. I hear you there. You're absolutely right. If someone complains they have missed a payment and their last payment was 301,

it's easy to tell there are two more to go. If you give them out as 300, 300, 300, it's a lot trickier for people at home and for anyone checking up to go at the bank statement and see which payment is which. That's actually really clever. I like that.

That's the first time someone said that about the UK government. We will go to you, Emily, for the first guest question. We've rattled through that first one. Give us the next one, please. We are that good, yeah. Okay.

The question is, each summer people flock to a Californian tourist attraction to have their photo taken next to two numbers. In 2021, a coveted pair of numbers was 57 and 135. What's happening? And I'll read it again. Each summer, people flock to a Californian tourist attraction to have their photo taken next to two numbers. In 2021, a coveted pair of numbers

was 57 and 135. What's happening? So the first thing I did was write those down. I just have 2021, 57, 135, and I started doing all sorts of maths like, are those the prime factors? No, they're not. 135 is not prime. What if you multiply them together? Well, that's not going to end in a one. So I think all my mathematical things that I went through just did not work. You cannot back solve this one, Tom. What were the two numbers again? 57 and 135. Are we looking at a particular place in California, or are the numbers in different places in California?

A particular place in California. I mean, Ren, you live in California. So we're straight at you here. Yeah, about that. So these are put together these are five digits that could potentially be like a zip code but that's definitely not a zip code here what's 135 in central because there's like death valleys in california isn't it and that's obscenely hot i'm 57 might be the record temperature there. Have we just cracked another one really quick?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You got it. So wait, did we know? Have we actually arrived? Yeah. So it's like, it's Death Valley then. It's going to be the giant thermometer in Death.

Oh, no. No, the giant thermometer giant thermometer in Death Valley. No, the giant thermometer is not in Death Valley. The giant thermometer is in Zizek's on the road to Las Vegas, New Barstow. So it's not the giant thermometer because that's just a thermometer. Death Valley has like a big sign on the intro. God, I've been doing these podcast recordings too long. Death Valley has a big sign on the entrance, right? Yeah. You got it. Y'all are spot on.

People are taking a selfie with the Death Valley temperature sign. 57 degrees. I'd die. Yeah. In fact, you do. Isn't like, what's the, 57 has got to be near death. There's a whole valley of it. So 135 Fahrenheit, 57 Celsius,

like that adds, I don't know if I would want to live there. I've experienced 122 before Fahrenheit. I don't know what that is in Celsius. And that was like unimaginably hot. It's like when you open an oven and you stick your face in it, and it like, it's like literally that everywhere all the time.

So I lived in Sierra Leone for a while and that was 45 Celsius, which is apparently 113 Fahrenheit and we didn't have air conditioning. Oh no, oh no. Don't tell me it was humid as well. 90% humidity. I think there's a temperature,

like it's wet bulb temperature, which is some combination of heat and humidity, at which point the human body literally cannot remove excess heat. I can't remember where that hits, but it feels like you're getting towards that there. Man, I was complaining about 41 in the Australian bush a couple of weeks ago. And no, I'm fine. You'll have out-temperatured me.

That's enough there. Yeah, at least I was in the desert where there was no moisture in the air. So yeah, it's basically the answer is they're heat tourists and they're looking to take a selfie with Death Valley thermometer sign showing the peak temperatures in the heat waves. Let's see if this one can stump our panel then as we rattle through these. Thank you to Catherine Davis for sending this question in. Anna is a performer.

Every few days, she needs to do something with a couple of lengths of dental floss. Why does she do this and what's her job? So one more time, Anna is a performer. Every few days, she needs to do something with a couple of lengths of dental floss. Why does she do this? And what is her job? Only flossing her teeth every few days? That's very British in your dental hygiene. Not standing for that. Not standing for that. We've got healthy teeth, they just aren't straight.

You said she's a performer, right? Yeah. Okay, okay. Dental floss. Why specifically dental floss and not like just string or twine or something? For the minty freshness? something for the minty freshness uh isn't dental floss also like plastic rather than like clot or cotton based or something i don't know i think it depends which which type you're buying i'm sure there's organic uh non-plastic stuff out there there is uh refillable ones um i assume it's not on her teeth you you assume correctly if she was somehow performing

with her teeth uh every i remember the old monty python thing about the dancing teeth no this is uh this is not being used on her teeth i will give you that much this early in the question couple lengths of dental floss is she measuring something i don't know but then i guess it could be rope or anything it doesn't have to be dental floss is she like starting a fire by like wrapping around a stick and like moving the stick or something like that i mean you could do that with just a stick uh you don't need you have stumped me that's a good point i mean i don't know if you can have minty fresh fire but still um i feel like that's an advertising slogan for something I don't know if you can have minty fresh fire, but still. I feel like that's an advertising slogan for something. I don't know what.

Like minty fresh fire? I feel like there's just a Yule log with a load of mint in it that you just throw into your fireplace. It'll be for the time that I've managed to set fire to my mouthwash at some point. Okay, did that actually happen? Because I feel like that actually happened. No, I've set fire to a lot of things, but not actually the mouthwash.

Most recently the hob and part of the kitchen. Minor point. So what I... So specifically a couple length of floss. Yes. Not three, not one.

A couple. It's two. Are they a musician? this is this to do with an instrument a musical instrument no i'll rule out musical instrument it is some equipment being used for the performance sorry you you look like you had it there for a moment right and then then you shut your mouth again no it's not that not that. It might be handy to... So I'm going to encourage you all to talk amongst yourselves, like talk through what kind of performances there might be, what might someone use. So, my mind goes to like magic tricks, you know, where someone like has like a rubber band

and they put it like around your hand and then they do the thing all of a sudden it's on the other side uh magic magic floss uh so looking not convinced so it's not a musical and i mean there's dancing and you use some of the weirdest things like i used to put like sheep's wool into my ballet shoes um supposedly it stopped the point she's hurting. That's a lie. It doesn't. She tying stuff together? Is it something about dancing? Oddly, Kip, you're a lot closer than you might think there.

I didn't know you had a ballet background. I mean, not a successful one. I was on the 97th percentile of a height. It's not the traditional ballerina height. Oh, yeah, that's fair. And then I outgrew all the ballet shoes, which also didn't help. But I've still got my

pointy somewhere. Was it to, like, tie off the circulation to a finger or a limb or something like that? I don't know why. I'm just speaking out loud. It doesn't make any sense

now that I've said it out loud. It was being tied up. Weirdly, you've got all the elements of this already. Is it makeshift shoelaces? Well, you have ribbons. Is it something to do with tying the ribbons? Because you...

Ballet shoes, you do ribbons and then you tie a knot in them and tuck them in. Yep. So why might you use dental floss for something like that? Is dental floss strong but thin? Hard to see. So is fishing line. Why didn't you use fishing line? Or is it to hold it in place in case the ribbon pops out? Yeah, you've got it. Like you said, Kit, ballet dancers put elastics and ribbons onto their shoes and sew them up. Dental floss is much, much stronger than just one strand of thread and pointe shoes take so

much strain that sometimes dental floss is preferred for tying those together look mom it wasn't a waste of 10 years of ballet oh wow okay um that's fascinating though because it's like you need something that's convenient and easy to use and strong. And so there might be better materials out there, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best material to use. So dental floss. Interesting. There is one bit we haven't covered in this question, though, which is why is that every few days? And I suspect, Kip, you'll know this, but why would you have to do that every few days? Why doesn't you just sew them in once and be done for the season? Is it going to snap? Because it's not that strong.

They wear out. Weirdly, Ren is the one who got that one right. Yeah, pointe shoes take so much strain. And I know people are going to complain that I'm using the English pronunciation there. I'm not going to try and drop one French word in, but pointe shoes take so much strain and wear out so quickly that professional ballet dancers replace them every few days and every single time you'll need to sew new stuff in there. So yes, there are ballet dancers who use dental floss to sew up their pointe shoes.

We're going to go to Wren for the next guest question. Take it away. The next question is from a listener sent in by Jackson S. Kilger. And it goes as, in 1854, a man was on a raised platform in front of a crowd. He ordered an ax man to cut the only rope holding him up. Not only did he survive, but he became a leading figure in his industry. Which industry is that? And I'll say that one more time. In 1854, a man was on a raised platform in front of a crowd, and he ordered an axe man to cut the

only rope holding him up. And not only did he survive, but he became a leading figure in his industry, which is which industry? I'm stepping back because I can tell you the industry and the name, and I will just keep out of this one. You would know this one. I'm going to say no more because if anyone here was going to get it, it was going to be me on this one.

I mean, it feels like an incredible lack of self-preservation, but it's going to be Houdini-esque like magic some description is he a raised is he like hanging off the platform is that what's going on or what so it's not an illusionist or anything like that like he's actually having you the rope is actually being cut because you say that you're he tells the person to cut the rope the rope is actually being cut how raised is it i mean are we talking about you know a couple of inches off the floor which isn't particularly oppressive or several feet off the floor yeah that is a good

question and i'm not sure tom probably knows is now not saying yeah i'm i'm just no probably Yeah, I'm shutting up. It's probably a decent height above the ground. I think it's safe to say it's dangerously high. Okay, okay. I'm presuming that. Could it just be something as simple as like a net to catch him or something? It is not, but have you seen any footage of the SCADDROP rides? Like self-contained... I can't remember what the acronym stands for,

but there's a couple of rides out there. There's one in a cooling tower somewhere in South Africa. There's one in the Netherlands, which is... You know how you do bungee jumps? It's that, only you're just dropped. There's no rope. There's just a big old net and deceleration thing to catch you at the bottom.

And you are genuinely free-falling attached to nothing, just kind of in a ball with the thing to keep you upright. Yeah, I'm so... No. Sign me up. No. I've got... All the different reactions to that.

I think it's one of the Tivoli parks in the Netherlands. I think it's the one in Aarhus. We'll let you do that. And there's somewhere in South Africa, and it's just... It's like a bungee jump, or one of those things where they put you out over a drop and then you step off, except you're just bundled up, Colin Aarhus will let you do that. And there's somewhere in South Africa. And it's just, it's like a bungee jumper. One of those things where they put you out over a drop and then you step off.

Except you're just bundled up. And at some point, much like this, I guess, someone pushes the button and the harness just disconnects and down you go. 9.8 meters per second per second. And there's just a big old net at the bottom to catch you. See, I just, I attract accidents. So I did the longest at flying in Latin America and I had to be rescued because I got stuck halfway across.

Oh no. You got bonus time on it, man. Yes. Screaming over a canopy. For the British listeners, I did a Boris Johnson, which is traumatising for myself. I've seen someone do a Boris Johnson. This is, for an episode from a few weeks back, Boris Johnson, which is traumatizing for myself. I've seen someone do a Boris Johnson.

This is, for an episode from a few weeks back, the same guy who took a paintball firing squad at his bachelor party, his stag party, the same guy got stuck on the zip line by just not sticking the landing. It was one of those, you just, you need enough momentum to get across. You do. And he just missed the landing platform It was one of those, you just, you need enough momentum to get across. You do. And he just missed the landing platform,

bounced off the tree, and just kind of sat there bobbing up and down for a little while until someone comes along from like the ropes course with a big stick. Puts the stick out, grab onto the stick, over you come.

So I was 800 yards from the end. Oh, so how do they rescue you? So they come out and the guys who run it, who were very good and very tolerant of my complete meltdown and screaming at this point, there was no sort of sense and elegance left. They climb along it and then they grab you and then they calm you down

and then they take you to the other end. And they tell you that really you're just a bit too light to get the whole way across, which was very nice of them. They just climb along it like with nothing on them? Yes, their hands, legs up and carry along it. It's very impressive if I'm not worried about falling to my death. impressive if I'm, you know, not worried about falling to my death. I remember seeing a post somewhere on the internet about someone who built a homemade zip line and they hadn't done the maths and it was for some summer camp somewhere. It's like, yeah, it'll work. That looks about right. We'll rig this up. And then they realised that the test dummies they were sending down were hitting

the end at about 50 miles an hour. And they're like, how do we fix this? And it was like, there is no way you can safely fix this you cannot send children down that line take it down it's a little bit like the uh first man to try a parachute um who forgot to take into account the weight of the parachute and oh no maths is important there we go i will say that knowing the answer this none of this is even yeah yeah i was gonna say i was like how do you segue this back to the relevance of the question here oh i don't bother with that i just i just gonna jam it straight back in maybe my trauma of a central american uh zipline has nothing to do with a race platform in 1854 shocking yeah now i've got

like roller coasters and stuff like that in my head. So I will give you this hint. The rope that was holding this man up was not actually attached to him. Was it a roller coaster or something like that? He's sitting in something or? So it says holding him up. So I assume it's attached to the raised platform.

Additionally, this demonstration actually resulted in changes to the new york building code is this the person who like tightrope walked it would suck to cut that rope you're yeah are you thinking i i think you're either thinking too early or too late there was charles blonder who did a load of tightrope stuff. And there was Philip Petit who walked between the Twin Towers. I think that's the right name. That was just me dropping in facts. Sorry, none of that's even vaguely relevant.

It's relevant to my random guess, which is apparently not relevant. Well, he was on a platform. He wasn't on the string. Or the rope, rather. So was he attempting to make a point? Yes. Was it, I don't know know something to have to do with like in my head i have something to do with like building a building or scaffolding or something like that maybe like or like a harness i don't know no you said you

but he cut the rope no yeah maybe like scaffolding or something that like he but he cut the rope. No, yeah, maybe like scaffolding or something. That like... He didn't cut the rope, an axe man cut the rope for him. I'm enjoying that it's an axe man in particular. Yeah, right? It's got very like executioner kind of vibes. Like lumber, like could it be like a lumberjack guy up on a tree with a harness around him, or like around the tree and they cut the rope attached to the.

I don't know. I'm spitting stuff out here. But what could have been? What kind of industry would that have led to? Coffin tree. Not quite. I will say his surname and his company are apparently household names, because I wasn't that familiar with it. Oh, no.

Okay, this nerd's familiar with it. I know you are! How many videos have you made about this? I've made several videos on various versions of this. Big old raised platform, rope holding it up, rope gets cut. Does the platform drop? The platform does not drop. Maybe a little.

Are you sure? So, is the platform attached to a tree if we're going lumberjacks and that not being weird? Don't think about the lumberjacks. He said it had to do with something with the building code, so like... Lateral! Don't think about the lumberjacks. But we must always think about the lumberjacks.

Right. I'm sure there's a song. I'm not singing. It's too early in the morning. He was demonstrating a safety mechanism. You know, like he was, you know, he was putting himself in what seemed to be a very obviously dangerous situation, but he was

proving a point that this was safe. That this raised platform that he was on held up by a string that when the string breaks, you're not going to die. Is he in construction? We use them all the time today, I'll tell you that

They get to know I used one of these platforms to get to the studio Was it a lift? Elevator Elevators! Elevators! But who was the man? I think his name was Otis You are correct

Otis Elisha, Elisha Otis I have seen a version of that demonstration in the modern day, and it's just big old raised platform, single rope, and he's demonstrating the emergency braking of the Otis elevator, which made it safe to use. I think that's right. Am I? Yeah, no, that's exactly it.

It was at the World's Fair, and he was making a point that like his elevator that he had designed here um could carry people they would be safe for people because up until this point elevators had only really been used for cargo they were too risky for people and so he was like no no we can make these things safe okay big thing about like uh the engineering term factor of safety you know like you over design something to not break. And so elevators famously have a very, very high factor of safety. If it's going to break it, if they say it can only take 10,000 pounds, it'll actually

break it 100,000 pounds. But maybe don't test that. Yeah, perhaps. The answer is that in 1954, a man named Otis was demonstrating an elevator, a platform that can carry people and not cargo. Not just cargo. This next one's a listener question, thank you to skyguidedvolpinefriend. In the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, there were dozens of hugely expensive, state-of-the-art US satellites that ceased operation after no more than a few weeks in orbit. Even though they were still

fully controllable and space-worthy at the time, they quickly became useless junk. Why? One more time, in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, there were dozens of hugely expensive, state-of-the-art US satellites that ceased operation after no more than a few weeks in orbit. Even though they were still fully controllable and space-worthy at the time, they quickly became useless junk. Why? Was this intended? It was part of the design. I'm going to sit down on this one

because I think I know the answer. All right. Kip and Emily, then this one's for you. So 60s, 70s and 80s. So we are looking post-successful lunar travel. Yeah. In fact, I think that goes the whole way through, doesn't it? Yeah, the years are kind of important there.

You're talking from Apollo era through to mid-space shuttle. Do they line up with people landing on the moon? No, not here. Did they run out of... This is stupid. Did they run out of storage of whatever they were... detecting or... See, the funny thing is, Emily, that's one of the first things you've said

and you are already circling around the right answer. It is a technological limitation. You're right there. Okay. There is... The reason that they are non-functional is because of a limit that isn't the case anymore. Oh, is it battery power?

Not this case. That is a lovely guess, and it's along the right sort of vague lines, but between the solar panels they can put up there, and I think occasionally the radioactive sources they use for power, powering satellites is not the problem. They ran out of their data cap on their 4G stream. Somewhere down on Earth, there's just an increasing number of 4g cell towers these

days they just get just have brief connections as one satellite kind of works the wrong way have you read the the jumper series by stephen gould i have i really like them i know that the film was naff but i really oh yeah the teleporting yeah yeah so the first one is Guy learns he can teleport. The second one is Guy's wife learns that she can teleport. Third and fourth are Guy's kid learns that she can teleport. And by the time you get to the fourth book, it is less a plot-based book and more of an excuse for an author who wants to see just how far you can break a universe with a superpower. And it's lovely because the kid wants her own space program.

Sign me up. She can teleport to space, at which point, like, right, okay, we're going to need a space suit. We're going to need communications. I love this. Minor spoilers, the reason she gets found out, in part, is because she's got a satellite phone and it keeps connecting in a way that the satellite company goes, I'm sorry, are you launching things here? Whereas actually it's a kid who can teleport going to space. It's a lovely series and I recommend it.

I literally just noted it down because I need a new book series. So it's not communications, but in the same way, it's something that you wouldn't need to do now. Is it storage space? are they taking photos yes storage space is not the right term for this and ren you've got a grin on your face i think you got this a little earlier as well is it like how much data it's able to send at once or how much it's able to um or how quickly it's able to send it. I don't know. Because now, like, as things evolve, I'm sure that's getting faster and faster.

I don't know. It is interesting that it ended in the 80s. Yeah, Voyager 2, of course, is still sending things back occasionally. Like, the long-distance space probes are still communicating. So it's... Oh, you're nearly there with storage space. It's just not quite the right word. There's one thing you're jumping past here. Memory. RAM. This is where my complete lack of

technical knowledge is going to be hugely obvious. You actually don't need much technical knowledge for this. You could answer this question in the 80s or 90s. Okay, Ren, you're nodding here. Go for it. I know the answer. It has to be this. I'll just, I'll mime a hint. Oh, is it film? Oh, photo quality.

Sorry, it's, I was not old enough to go back to film cameras. Okay, so I think I heard about this one before. So basically, yes, there were digital cameras at the time. to go back to okay so i i think i heard about this one before so basically yes there were digital cameras at the time uh but they were not very good and these were spy satellites that needed incredibly high fidelity photos and so the only way to get high enough quality photos was with film probably like high form like large format film and the only way to get freaking film from outer space is to land it and so they would uh i this is the part i'm not exactly sure how it plays out they probably deorbited these

uh satellites and then retrieved the film canisters that survived the fall or the re-entry into the atmosphere they dropped the film canisters by parachute so they deorbited them by putting a heat shield and a parachute on them and send them down when they were over friendly territory. And eventually, yeah, the satellite would run out of film. So there's nothing else they can do except instruct it to burn up. They can't send a new roll of film up there without sending up a new satellite anyway. So they just instruct it to, uh, to burn up. I have a lot of friends who are really into like analog photography.

And so it's like freshly on my mind. I spent all weekend with the dude who had a film camera out the entire time. Cool. You're right. This was the US spy satellite programs Corona, Gambit and Hexagon. Gambit missions lasted a few days.

Hexagon and Corona lasted a few weeks. They deorbited the rolls of film and then with nothing else to do, let the satellites burn up. Last guest question of the show then. Kip, it's over to you. Okay. Many of the oldest houses

on the small Greek island of Ikaria have no chimneys and low ceilings. Many of them are also built under rocks. Why is this? I'll say it again. Many of the oldest houses on the small Greek island of Icaria have no chimneys and low ceilings. Many of them are also built under rocks. Why is this? All right, I'm going to immediately ask Emily, the engineer. This feels

like an engineering question. Oh no, don't put that pressure on me like that. We can't. I'm coming back to school. Flashbacks. So, I mean, a structural thing, right? If there's no chimney and it's low ceilings.

So it's an island. These like yurts and these like dome houses type thing in Greece? Yeah, so like a lot of small Greek islands which is like rocks in the middle of the ocean, well in the middle of the Mediterranean

Sea with a few houses on them, but I don't know why you'd build them low ceilings and no chimneys so these are old houses how do you build something under rocks do you just like dig a hole and just say that there's rocks above you do you just make a house and then put some rocks on top of it like sprinkles do you find a boulder and kind of sit up next to it like this and be like i'm under a rock wait unless you've been'm under a rock wait unless

you've been living under a rock i mean there's plenty of rock houses in the world that have been carved into uh into the side of side of cliffs or things like that but it feels like this is underneath yeah i mean it's a beautiful castle in uh slovenia that's built into the side of Iraq, but this is underneath them. Were they all just tiny, short people with low ceilings? I don't know. I wonder if there was an environmental concern that was sparking

this. Were they in fear of like... Was there a tsunami risk or anything like that? Volcanoes exploding? Rising tides? I was actually thinking, Emily, that that wasn't a bad answer. It happens to be a population that's really short,

but that doesn't explain no chimneys. Is there a lot of wind being an island or something? A lot of wind? You don't want it to knock anything over so you go under a rock or there's a thing in desert climates where you can get a sort of makeshift air conditioning by building a tunnel that goes into your house and the air goes through underground enough that the ground is cold and so it kind of chills the air as it comes in. But I don't know what that would do on a Greek island.

I mean, Greek islands are very hot, but it's nothing to do with the answer to the question. Okay. I was thinking it might be some ventilation thing or something like that. It might be a... But then you'd want a chimney to let the air escape, so... Ren was towards the right way of thinking,

but not really towards the right answer. With the environmental aspect. So these houses developed because of the location. So why do you need a low-ceilinged house? Why do you need a house that's flat to the floor or underground and doesn't let anything down a chimney? I mean, I'm assuming it's't let anything down a chimney. I mean, I'm assuming it's not letting anything down a chimney. I wonder if it's because they were able to plant more grass on top of it

and there wasn't much space on this island and so they're utilizing the rooftops as extra land. Or it's camouflage. No, you said it was an old house. I was thinking like wartime camouflage or something like that. Go more down that route. Oh, okay. So,

they didn't want to be detected so they built stealthy houses that are low. And where were they? They were on a Greek island near Crete. Oh, I... Does anyone know their history?

Because apparently I... This is where my history knowledge runs out. Okay, so... Sparta was nearby. They didn't want to attract invaders.

They wanted to look like just a rock. And so, who invaded? Would that be the Persians? Persian Empire? I wouldn't get too worried about Greek history. But yet it's a camouflage... We want to go down the camouflage route. Okay.

No, you said old houses. So this isn't hiding from aerial bombardment in World War II or something like that? No, so you can see these houses from the air. But not from the sea. Oh. So who's invading a Greek island from the sea?

How old are these houses? Are we talking like dozens of years or hundreds of years or thousands of years? So it doesn't say in the question. From my own history, you're probably looking at at least a hundred years. Okay. Veering away from the

hiding from people, could it have to do with a dangerous animal or something that they're trying to camouflage? Back to people?

That's a shame. In my head, there was some leviathan whale out there that really hated this island. I'm thinking like, maybe they don't want a chimney because they don't want like dangerous animals coming down the chimney. I don't know.

And that'd be a lot of fun, apart from, you know, for the people being attacked by the dangerous animals. But... Hmm. So we discussed that they couldn't see them from the air. And you look at, but you can see them from the sea.

And they were built to protect the occupants from something that is not an issue in that area nowadays. Pirates or something? I don't know. Pirates? Pirates? They were built to deter pirates. Pirates? Emily, where'd that

come from? That's brilliant. Cool. Pirates! It, where'd that come from? That's brilliant. Cool, pirates! It's one of the shortest answers I've ever seen on this. It just says they were built to deter pirates. Oh, I thought for a minute the answer was just pirates in big letters. So the houses were glad in stones or slabs and nestled into the landscape so that they looked as much as possible like large rocks. Also, a low ceiling meant the house wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb when seen from the sea.

The houses also had no chimney so that their location wasn't given away by smoke trails. We've got a little bit of spare time for one more from me, so here's a bonus question. Why are places where you can buy books, pens, and paper called stationary shops? One more time. Why are places where you can buy books, pens, and paper called stationary shops? Lovely short question there. Good luck. So stationary, pens and paper, stuff like that, right?

I don't actually know the linguistic history behind that term. It never really made sense to me. Because you would buy it at a stationary shop because you don't want to buy it from a moving shop. Can't find it. He's not wrong. That's about all I got. I do buy most of mine in train stations, but still.

So I'm trying to think of what stationary would be in other languages ren you're you're actually fairly close right away there um you are linguistically along the right right lines there okay so the fact it wasn't moving yes so we're gonna need a bit of the more reason why there were they originally sold by sort of people on carts and things, or in markets. And so it was the first time they went into sort of shops that didn't move. If that was the case, that wouldn't be where the word would come from. They'd have been given, like, bookshop or pen shop or something like that.

There is something special about that type of shop. A stationary shop. Mm-hmm. Would they also... Did it also act like a post sort of thing where they would send letters for you as well? Like, I'm trying to think of what additional things you might find at a stationary shop

in addition to pen, paper and ink. Oh, is it something, is it sort of in contrast with a newsagents or post office? If we go back to we're not moving like the paper, like the paper is not moving. Like if you're posting it, I'm really running off. You're dancing around the right answer. Why wouldn't a shop like this move in a time when almost all traders were moving around for markets and things like that?

Why would the word come from, according to this, stationarius in Latin? I'm so mispronouncing that. Is it something to do with the paper mills and were they attached? Although you could move it. I don't really understand why you wouldn't. Could it double as like a, this is stupid, but like could it double as like a post office or something

where like people have to send stuff in so it has to stay there? It's much simpler than that. Much simpler. I mean, remember that this would be like bookshop carrying a lot of just books, papers, anything like that, as opposed to something like flowers or vegetables. Is it because unlike, say, the books go to one person and a library, they'd come back again? Is it about the books? It is about the books go to one person and a library, they'd come back again.

Is it about the books? It is about the books. It's one specific thing about books compared to a lot of other products that you might buy in medieval times. I mean, in medieval times, they were monks. They were written by monks. There weren't many books in medieval times. Yeah. Wasn't it like only

the church that really was into writing? And so if you're not part of the church and you wanted to write, you had to go to the specific writing store. There's a couple of jumps here. So there is a medieval Latin word, stationarius, which means a shopkeeper or tradesman

who had a regular place who didn't travel round. Why might that have been associated with bookshops in particular? Books are heavy. And there's your answer, Ren. Oh, shoot. It's as simple as that. Books are really heavy. Potatoes are not, apparently.

Potatoes are still heavy, but you've still got to pull them in from the farm anyway. The trader's got to go around with them. A stationer, someone who sold books or papers or something like that, will be much more likely to stay in one place and not have to lug their stuff around so they became known as stationery shops. Wow.

I feel like I just learned something incredible about stationery. Like, I did not know that at all. One final thing, then. A listener question that i asked at the start of the show thank you to chris dixon for sending this in what eventually contains 178 feet 81 heads 46 wings and eight udders eight udders udders eight udders is probably your best clue in there. So that's something with a number of cows. Maybe the cast of something.

Yeah, you're getting there. Did you say there were wings as well? Yeah, 178 feet, 81 heads, 46 wings and eight udders. Costume shop for the Christmas play. Well, you know, you're nearly there, Ren. Is it the Christmas carol?

It's a Christmas carol. 12 Days of Christmas? Yes, the song The 12 Days of Christmas eventually contains 178 feet, 81 heads, 46 wings, and eight udders. And if anyone wants to check the maths on that, please don't tell me about it. Thank you to all our players for getting through our questions there. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you?

We're going to start with Emily. Yeah, you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok at EmilyTheEngineer. Ren. Yeah, you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok at emilytheengineer. Ren. Yeah, you can find me on all the socials. I have to spell it out because it's surrender, but it's S-I-R-W-R-E-N-D-E-R. It's a really good pun. It's one of those puns that is too clever for its own good because you have to explain it every time. And Kip.

Assuming it's still there, you can find me on Twitter at miceheath. Thank you very much to all our players. You can find out more about this show and send in your own question at lateralcast.com. We have video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast and we are at lateralcast pretty much everywhere. Thank you very much. It's goodbye from Emily.

See ya. From Ren. Bye-bye. From Kip. Goodbye. I've been Tom Scott and that's been Lateral