Lateral with Tom Scott - 70: Holding up a desk lamp

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Hannah Fry, Lily Hevesh and Brian David Gilbert face questions about Tokyo text, state symbols and copyright clauses. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Jason Roberts, Tarun, Hans Bartel, Wes Potter. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Spring is a great time to start a new workout routine. With the weather warming up, it feels easier to get into the rhythm of things. Whether you have 20 minutes or an hour for a Pilates class or an outdoor guided walk, Peloton has everything you need to help you get going. Get a head start on summer with Peloton at onepeloton.ca. at onepeloton.ca. In 1969, who asked the US Postal Service to change the state abbreviation for Nebraska from NB to NE?

The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Welcome to this very special show, which has been voted the funniest ever episode of Lateral by the International Time Travellers Club. So, no pressure for our guests today. We start with mathematician and writer Hannah Fry. Welcome back to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm annoyed that you made up that joke and I didn't. That was great. I'll be honest. I don't write most of these.

This is just a brilliant one that's come in from the producer. Sometimes they try and have me talk in a pirate accent. Sometimes they give me just long strings of alliteration. This one, be proud of this one. You are their meat puppet, Tom. Oh, thanks. Thanks for that. You're welcome. welcome i was gonna ask how it was first time on the show for you last time but you know what i've just been called a meat puppet i might just move on how was your first appearance last time it was good i think uh you know i think

we worked well as a team i think that um we got some lateral stuff out there. We basically had fun and that's what it's really about. Also joining us, a domino artist, extraordinary professional domino artist. I don't know what, how on earth do you describe someone who puts up dominoes and knocks them down for a living? I don't know, but Lily Hvesh, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much. Yeah, and you can also just say domino builder or domino setter-upper.

Sometimes people say that. What's the biggest thing you've just say domino builder or domino setter-upper. Sometimes people say that. What's the biggest thing you've made with dominoes? I feel like that's the obvious question everyone has to ask. But like, do you have solo stuff? Do you have team efforts? How does it all work? Yeah, actually, earlier this year, I was in the Netherlands helping to set up 800,000 dominoes. And this took over 30 people and two weeks to set up gosh wow how long did it take

to knock down i think it was around 20 minutes but keep in mind this is like considered the largest community domino build like unofficial kind of world record not not guinness but like you know the team of people who just love dominoes well thank you very much for returning the third member of our panel today uh quietly whispering oh my gosh in the background at a number of dominoes uh writer youtuber brian david gilbert welcome back to the show hello hello happy to be back also happy that i am not a domino setter upper because i feel like that would be more stressful than like doing surgery for me my hands would be shaking the entire time

so yeah I'm glad that that's not my profession I feel like I'd want my surgeon to have steady hands but you would really be more nervous doing that than something like surgery? 100% some person who cares if I'm letting down all of my friends

who have been setting up dominoes for two weeks, that's a big deal. A person's life, who cares? Whatever. It's not a big deal. But the dominoes, stressful. That's so interesting because people always tell me like, oh, Lily, you should be a surgeon with your steady hands.

And I'm like, oh, no, definitely not. Not for me. Somewhere there's a sitcom double act here and I can't quite figure out where it sits. Good luck to all three of you. Our guests have to use enough foresight on these questions so that when they look back to where they've been, they walk into the right answer before they've even seen it.

Got that? Good, because here comes question one. Tokyo Narita Airport has several signs written in both Japanese and English. One sign says three words of English, but a different message in Japanese. What are the messages? I'll say that again. Tokyo Narita Airport has several signs written in both Japanese and English. One sign says three words of English, but a different message in Japanese.

What are the messages? Is it something to do with the cultural differences between people who might have English as their first language and people who might be native Japanese? So, for example, in Japan, eating or drinking in the street is considered extremely rude. Or actually the shoe stuff as well, taking your shoes off. There's a real cultural difference between Western and Japanese sort of way of life. So I wonder whether it's something about like, just saying to people in English, don't be so rude. Something about just saying to people in English, don't be so rude.

As a tourist in Japan, it is terrifying. I was constantly worried that I was just going to commit some sort of social faux pas just by absentmindedly doing something that would be normal in the UK. I did a filming trip in Japan and we had a guy who we'd hired to come with us. And I was pretty sure by the end of it that his only job was to tell us what we were doing that was rude yeah yeah I feel like it has to be something related to that yeah I was thinking along those same lines or even just like a translation difference like maybe there isn't an exact translation so it has to be something else. You're vaguely along the right lines.

You're right that this only works in a place like Japan, where you generally only expect the locals to speak the local language. Okay. But it's not so much an instruction. It's not a warning. There is a message here that is aimed at everyone.

It's just different in the different languages. The message is different. Yeah. One sign says three words of English, but a different message in Japanese. Man, I was just at that airport earlier this year. I should have looked a little closer. And specifically, it's at the airport? Yes. And is it to do with the airport? Yeah, you wouldn't really put this anywhere else.

airport yes and is it to do with the airport yeah you wouldn't really put this anywhere else do you think it's in my head i'm thinking it's like what if there's a different style of soap dispenser in the bathroom and it's just for the english speakers it just says please don't worry and it's like it's supposed to act this way we promise like this is the thing that it's supposed to do and then in japanese it explains exactly what you're supposed to do with it but it but in english it's like nah don't don't tell anyone this is exactly how it's supposed to be or the bum washers that they have in the toilets yeah i'm sure it's a technical term for those and they're wonderful and i want one for my own home but the phrase is please don't worry yeah please't worry. The mood of what you're saying is correct. It is definitely one targeted at Japanese folks,

one targeted at everybody else. Maybe there's like a certain lounge for Japanese people. Like they get the local lounge. Or if it's specifically in an airport, could it be to do with passports or visas i wonder where local people have a certain way of getting in and uh foreigners have to go in a different queue i think you were closer when the mood was please don't worry oh okay funny okay why would people be worried? I'm not saying that's right It's not please don't worry

But the mood is closer than an instruction or a command or something like that Okay And it only works because Japanese is basically localised to the one country This definitely wouldn't work in the UK It definitely wouldn't work in the US What as in the message wouldn't work in the UK. It definitely wouldn't work in the US. What as in the message wouldn't work? Just the concept of this pair of signs would not work. Would it work in Hungary?

I do not know enough about Hungary to answer that question. It's a language that doesn't have roots in any of its surrounding countries' languages. Is it like a historical message, like something from their culture that's very old? It's really simple. This kind of message will be all over the world, in airports, in languages, everywhere.

Like safe travels. Have a good trip. That sort of Like safe travels. Have a good trip. That sort of thing, yeah. Have a nice flight. Right, let's think of three-word phrases that would make sense. Enjoy your flight. Enjoy your flight.

Yeah, that's good. You're in the wrong bit of the airport. Oh, early on. Okay, okay. You're in departures there. Oh, so we're looking for arrivals. Welcome to Japan. Yeah. Welcome to Japan. Yeah.

Welcome to Japan is the English phrase. What's the translation of the other one? Oh. Don't worry about it. Or whatever we said before. Welcome to Japan is the English phrase. In English, you nailed it. Word for word, big letter.

Welcome home? Welcome back. Welcome home is the Japanese phrase. Oh, that nailed it. Word for word, big letter. Welcome home? Welcome back. Welcome home is the Japanese phrase. Oh, okay. I like that. Okay. The translation is literally welcome back, which I have written here as okurinosai, apologies to Japan.

So, yes, if you can read Japanese, it tells you welcome back. If you can read English, you're probably not coming back. Welcome to Japan still works if you're returning. you're probably not coming back welcome to Japan still works if you're returning

they have that in Ireland as well you know really? yeah but in in Irish which of course even people in Ireland don't speak

I mean we will get complaints if you blanket statement that one I think the Venn diagram of people who don't live in Ireland and people who speak Irish is, I mean, they're not, they're not. That's true.

So, yes, the sign in the arrivals says, welcome to Japan in English and welcome back in Japanese. Brian, we will go to you for the next question whenever you're ready. Absolutely. This question has been sent in by Wes Potter. As a last minute favour, Jenny held a tall desk lamp for a photographer colleague. How did this immortalise her? It's a very quick question. As a last minute favour, Jenny held a tall desk lamp for a photographer colleague.

How did this immortalise her? So is there a famous photograph of somebody holding a desk lamp? The only famous desk lamp I can think of is the Pixar one. Yeah? Is the one that bounces along and goes... But there's also that actual, that sort of, that shape of desk lamp is also very famous. Angle poise. Yeah, angle poise, there you go go That's like a very, very famous design

Why am I thinking like, you know in Harry Potter With the basilisk And like, if you look at it in the eye Then you like, you die Like something like that But also like in Greek Like ancient mythical things Like if you look at Medusa

It's like you're not You just like become stone Something like that It's a cursed Anglepoise lamp That whatever, whatever is in its light to stone. You know, Bohemian Rhapsody, where they've got the photographs and their face is like. So I wonder whether the image that's really famous is you don't see a death lamp in it at all. You just see like, you just see something that's lit from above. If the photographer truly was like,

oh, I didn't set up any lights for Queen, the very famous band. I feel like that photographer would get fired pretty quickly. Okay, so in which case it's something that's more impromptu. But are we on the right lines there though of like making lighting? A famous photo of someone with a desk lamp. Is the desk lamp in the photo?

That's, I will say, I'll give you a hint and say that the desk lamp was intended to resemble something else. What? Wait, as in? So in,

in the. Wait, was it a desk lamp? It was a desk lamp that Jenny held a desk lamp, but it was not intended to look like a desk lamp in the final photo. In the photograph. Oh, so then it must be some sort of prop like i don't know maybe like the sun or something else i'm just thinking like what could

it be if it's just like a bulb and maybe like a shield around it yeah or unless it's inside something like, I don't know. I'm not sure where I'm going with that. Because from afar, it looks like, you know, a light shining out of something. Like, okay, so for example, you know, in Pulp Fiction, where they open the suitcase and then, yeah, thank you. They open the briefcase and then the light shines out of it. I wonder whether it's like inside something.

Photographer friend, though. I feel like there's got to be a famous photograph that we're missing here that somehow has a person holding a lamp in it that doesn't look like a person holding a lamp. You're on the right track there, Tom, in terms of Jenny was standing in specifically to be a model for this situation. Right. And you will definitely know what this photograph is. I feel like 100% certain that all three of you have seen this photograph

at some point in your life. Why do I feel like this is an album cover or a movie cover or something like that? Getting warmer. Yeah, it's got to be something really iconic. Like everyone's seen. Like pop culture. It's got to be a big pop culture thing.

I'm just thinking about all the industrial light and magic stuff where they made everyday objects look like ridiculous things. Like they've got a starship that's actually based out of some old 1950s construction set mccarno legos they put together like is there yeah i think you're going a bit too far in terms of how this photograph i would say okay was a i'll say it's a reference but the final photograph looks pretty dang similar to what uh was going on with the original impromptu modeling. OK, so this is some impromptu modeling just being like, hey, I want to try this thing. What about this?

And then the final photograph ends up being much more famous. And I'll say that I guess the the final photograph, I would say the thing that, you know, slightly more uh stylized than a photograph i guess might be helpful to say or maybe i'm putting you in the complete wrong direction but but it is still so hold on when when you say that we know this that all of us have seen it have we seen the impromptu version or the final version you've seen you've definitely seen the final version i know that i'm pretty sure that's the thing that you've seen you've definitely seen the final version i know that i'm pretty sure that's the thing that you've seen um and again tom you were getting in the right direction when you were talking about movies oh i'm gonna i'm gonna kick myself because it's

gonna be really obvious in hindsight what this is is this like a star wars movie cover or poster or it's not i'll the other hint I'll give you is that it's not for a specific movie. But for a franchise. Oh! Oh! Hold on. If it's not for a specific movie,

it's going to be one of the... the slates, the idents that studios use at the start. So, is it, what's the studio that just has the woman holding a torch in the air? Universal. Not universal, but. Paramount.

Is it Paramount? It's the other one. It's. I can see. 20th Century Fox. It's 20th Century Fox. No, it's Columbia Pictures. It's Columbia Pictures.

It's the woman holding the torch at the top of the Columbia Pictures thing. That's 20th Century Fox. No, it's Columbia Pictures. It's Columbia Pictures. It's the woman holding the torch at the top of the Columbia Pictures thing. That's correct. She is the torch lady from the Columbia Pictures logo. And I love how all of you knew exactly what it was and then said every other studio name in existence before getting to it.

Great branding there. Just brilliant branding by Columbia. Yeah. I can literally see it in my mind. I'm like, what is it called? Yeah. What's I think really interesting about this from the notes is that it was a Pulitzer Prize winning photographer, Kathy Anderson, who just was tasked with taking the reference photograph for the Columbia Pictures logo. And then a model couldn't be found in time. So Anderson used Jenny Joseph, who was working at the same newspaper office

just again a random newspaper employee uh and put her in a sheet and then held the desk lamp up and now she will be in the final logo forever that's so funny it became so famous who knew yeah so then so then hold on let me understand so the final photograph it's drawn over to make the final photograph... It's drawn over to make the final image, right? It's a reference photo that they then painted over to make the Statue of Liberty holding a torch up, or is it just a woman holding a torch up? I think it's just a woman holding a torch up. Just a woman holding a torch up, yeah.

In a sort of toga-ish thing. Again, that just was a bed sheet, I guess. This next question was sent in by Mitchell Van Ham, Andy Johnson, Nathan H, and Bruno V, so I'm slightly worried that someone might know this, but good luck. In 1994, TSR released an advanced Dungeons & Dragons book called Encyclopedia Magica Volume 1. Why were readers confused by the frequent use of the words I-Wizard and Da-Wizard?

I'll say that again. In 1994, TSR released an advanced Dungeons & Dragons book called Encyclopedia Magica Volume 1. Why were readers confused by the frequent use of the words I-Wizard and Da-Wizard? What was the second one? Da-Wizard?

Da-Wizard. D-A. one? DaWizard? DaWizard. D-A. D-A. Hannah is writing these down. I am. Brian just looks quite confused. But I think of the people here, I feel like... Why do I feel like Brian has the most D&D experience?

Am I just extrapolating from Dropout here or am I just stereotyping you? I mean, you're doing both, but it is true. I think I probably do know the most. But that being said this came out the year i was born so i am still uh struggling a little bit sorry about that but uh the the thing there when you're saying i wizard i like the physical eye like you have or is it the like as if steve jobs invented this it's as if steve jobs invented okay all right gotcha i was which also is probably a good riff in itself yeah okay well then i i was thinking the same

thing i was like sounds like an apple product yeah it because here's the thing about i would say most like fantasy weird things in that era is that they were trying if they made like duh wizard because they thought like i don't know it sounded like an mc name from early hip-hop i i wouldn't put it past them for them to try to make that like cool hip reference but i i feel like that's not right it's not but i love the idea that at some point there was a dungeons and dragons source book that was inspired by early hip-hop i just just feel like that's... That also feels like the kind of thing you'd ask ChatGPT for these days. Why were people confused? Was there, like, similar language in the game that sounded like iWizard and DaWizard? How much Dungeons & Dragons knowledge do you need to have to be able to answer this question, Tom?

Absolutely not. Okay. Well, maybe a tiny amount. You would need to know what Dungeons to answer this question tom absolutely not okay well maybe a tiny amount you you would need to know what dungeons and dragons is and talks about okay so there's dice in dungeons and dragons yep now we've reached the limit of my knowledge all i know is that it it takes a long time to play yeah and even longer to try to organize groups yeah yes yeah but i hear the people who are into dnd are like they're like that's their thing it's like kind of like i don't know it's like it seems like a fandom almost definitely which makes me think that like again first off

dungeons and dragons uh enjoyers tend to be very very intense about their rules and so i can't imagine it being a rules issue that's confusing them i can't imagine it's that that's the the the breaking point um but maybe okay is it does the does i and da stand for something is it like i is an introverted wizard and da is the district attorney wizard or something like that. And they have to figure out how those could be combined. Like, maybe there's something there?

They're just single words, lowercase. Okay. I wizard and duh wizard. Tell us the bit about Dungeons & Dragons that we need to know in order to be able to... Honestly, I can't give much more without giving it away. I would think more about the...

I feel this is the sort of thing where writing the words down might help a little. Is it something to do with the way that you type it? Yes. So there was this quite sweet thing about typos. So Google Trends have different typos and there was one that was really strange. And people thought that it was everywhere in the world had one word that was the same typo, the Google Trend for it. But France was different. And then people realised it's because the E and the W in the French keyboard or E and Z are swapped over or something. Yeah, they have a zirty keyboard.

Yeah. So I wonder whether it's a typo, but maybe typed in a different language. It's not a typo. It's not a slip of the things. These words were all the way through the book. Deliberate. No, not really. Brian, I think you may be able to help here with some words that might come up when you're talking about D&D. Oh, gosh.

Oh, I mean... No, I was originally going to be like, sometimes depending on dice checks are called DCs and stuff like that. If there's another related word in dungeon but i feel like that's too much institutional knowledge of dungeons and dragons to to be yeah you don't need you don't need that much okay but you think you're saying it is to do with the keyboard not the keyboard but word processing this was an error that came in during production.

Oh, is it related to like people trying to look up wizard and then having to go to a different part of the book to like, no? Not quite. Brian, talk me through some D&D combat here. Let's just say I'm rolling against something. Yes. Talk me through a battle. Oh god, I mean, now I'm going to have my D&D cred really

questioned here. So you're going to be basically, when you're first fighting someone, you have to check, you roll dice to see if it hits. And then you roll dice for the damage related to it. But I'm trying to be... Damage Wizard?

D-A? Now you're very close. Very quickly. Damage Wizard is almost the clue you need to unlock it. Damn, Wizards! Damage Wizard. It was meant to be

damage. What they got was da wizard. Oh, autocorrect! Nearly. Like a find and replace. Find and replace. So what changed? How did they end up with da wizard and iWizard?

Oh my gosh. M-A-G-E. Oh, mage wizard. Image wizard. It's image wizard and damage wizard. And those are, okay. It was originally Wizard and Damage Wizard. And those are, okay. It was originally Image and Damage. And someone did a find and replace to change Mage to Wizard. And then they just did not proofread it any further.

And how is there a Mage? Does Mage mean something in Dungeons and Dragons? Well, I think that might be the issue, is that somebody wrote it as mage for the entire time, but if you're talking about classes, I think they only had wizard class at that point. I don't believe mage was a class at that point, and I don't think it still is.

So mage is a Dungeons & Dragons word? Mage is another word for wizard. It's just a synonym for wizard. Oh, I did not know that. I did not know that either. That's why you two had some problems with that. Okay, sorry. I had no excuse. Mage is a synonym for wizard.

Mage is a synonym for wizard. So the writer simply described mage all the way through, presumably because it sounded more magical or fantastical than wizard. And someone went oh we'll just we'll just find and replace that back and so throughout the book they were talking about uh not images but wizards and not points of damage but points of the wizard i i just think it's

amazing that in my head i'm like oh yeah everyone knows mages and then i'm like oh no i guess i am more nerdy than I think. Everyone must know what a mage is. Yeah, sorry. That one's on me as well. That's on me. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, Brian. You cut me open and I bleed nerd.

It's just a different class of nerds. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Hannah, the next question's yours. Over to you. Okay. This question was sent in by Taryn. The cruise ship Oasis of the Seas is 72 metres tall above water.

Denmark's Storbelt Bridge has a clearance of only 65 metres. What two solutions, one technological, one scientific, did it use to pass under this bridge safely? Let me do a video of two again. one scientific did it use to pass under this bridge safely let me give it to you again the cruise ship oasis of the seas is 72 meters tall above water denmark's store belt bridge has a clearance of only 65 meters what two solutions one technological and one scientific did it use to pass under this bridge safely i would quibble the word safely, frankly. Okay. Well, I'm glad that you mentioned that because immediately in my head,

I thought, okay, what they had to do is get everyone on the cruise ship to jump at the same time. So it pushed it down and then they drove through really fast. And that was the way they got there. For real, you've basically got one already.

Oh! Wait, what? Okay. It's not jumping up and down, but it is a way to get it to sink lower in the water. But, like, load it with as much stuff as possible? Like, make it heavy, make it sink lower? Nope.

You did actually say it, Brian. You did actually say the exact correct thing. Really? But it's not about weight. Yeah. Oh, so it's like a buoyancy, like, just... Is there something about, like, ships going fast, pulling more draft? I remember reading something about that in, like, a navigation guide to mariners

that, like, when your ship is going at speed, the pressure, like, the ground effect or whatever the equivalent of that is, sucks it down to the ground a little bit more. Because you have to be worried about that if you're in shallow water. But if you are actually trying to get under a bridge what you would do is put the hammer down get the propeller going as fast you can and fast and furious it as much as you can in a cruise ship underneath this bridge that is exactly right the uh do you want uh i mean that's the scientific solution yes it's the technical you're absolutely right that's one half of it. It's the hard one, I'll be honest. But you're exactly right.

It's the only equation that anyone knows about aerodynamics is Bernoulli, which is that speed and pressure are related. And if you increase speed, you know, you change pressure. And that's exactly the effect that's going on, as you described. So just smash it. Because ships ground because of that. Like ships are like, yeah, we absolutely have clearance to get through this. We've got a metre, two metre clearance, it's fine.

And then they go a bit faster and get sucked down and ground on the rocks. That's wild. Okay, that's half of it. That's half of it. The hard half. The hard half. That was a great guess. That's also the scary half of it, right?

Like, that's terrifying to be like, okay, we have to go really, really quickly. Trust me, it's going to go below the bridge. I've seen footage, and this is not what this cruise ship did, but I've seen footage of somewhere in the, I think it's Florida. It feels like it should be Florida.

It's somewhere on the Grand Tour around the American waterways that boats do, where there is one low bridge that sailing ships can't get under unless they weigh down one side of their boat, tilt the whole thing over about 20 degrees so they've got a little bit more room and the mast can just sneak under the bridge

because it's going at an angle. This is not what the cruise ship is doing. I'm just saying, after you finish listening to this, go and watch some videos of them doing the tilty under the bridge thing. The tilty under the bridge thing. The thing is that you are on the right

track in the sense that actually with the tilty under the bridge thing, it is about one key point that needs to get under the bridge. Is it just the mass? That's all the point of it. So does the mass go in, like it

shrinks down? You absolutely nailed it. I mean, you guys, you got that so quickly. I was like, this is really hard. How is anyone going to get this? But no, I didn't. This is the type of people, the calibre of people that we're talking about. Okay, so yeah, essentially, it's the first time a cruise ship has ever had it.

It's got a telescopic smokestack that can be retracted down. And also because there is 20 metres of water between the keel and the bed of the straight, what they do is they just exactly as you say, Tom, just like smash it through. And if they do those two together um then they can manage to clear the the bridge by 60 centimeters this is what i mean about safely not enough that is not i entirely agree so 70 so so this thing is seven meters too tall and it makes you know almost eight meters by doing these two things together. Unbelievable. Yeah. That is also like,

I assume that they have to make sure everyone is under the decks, right? Like, no, they, that being said, I know that there's somebody who's out there like trying to smack the bridge as they go past, but right.

Everybody down. Yeah. No, absolutely not. I'm going to hit it. So this, this, this,

this ship, it was built in Finland. But if it was ever to get to the USA, it needed to clear this bridge. I mean, you would think maybe a bit more forward planning would have been useful, but it does. They built a telescope. That's forward planning, that is.

Give it a bit more than 60 centimeters, my goodness. But yeah, they use the same technique when they're docking in New York City to go under. There's a bridge in New York City they need to get under. Yeah. Oh, wow. Do they tell their passengers that? They're like, oh, yeah, surprise.

We just got to go. They're going to be out on deck celebrating it. You know they are. Just, you know, cruise ship version of limbo, isn't it? Yeah. Thank you to Michael Teasdale for this next question. And it's a sports one. Good luck. Near the end of the final game of the Atlanta Falcons' 1972 season,

the clock was stopped so that running back Dave Hampton could be presented with a game ball by his team. When the game ended, this ceremony had become ironically painful. Why? I'll say that again. Near the end of the final game of the Atlanta Falcons' 1972 season, the clock was stopped so that running back Dave Hampton could be presented with a game ball by his team.

When the game ended, this ceremony had become ironically painful. Why? Did they accidentally give him the ball that was being used in the game rather than a special game ball? No, the ceremony went off exactly as planned. Okay. Right, what sport is this? It's American football.

I'm guessing the ball was used in the game and I'm guessing that this guy was retiring or something. Like it must have been his last game and they were like, here, have the game ball for whatever. And then, yeah, I feel like it has to be that kind of ceremonial thing or else no one would be cool with them stopping gameplay

if we're in the middle of it. It wasn't a retirement ceremony. It was more of a celebration. But yes, this was prearranged that, yeah, we're going to stop the clock for a little while and let this celebration happen. You have done a thing. Here is the ball you did the thing with.

Okay. You have done a thing. Was someone getting married like did somebody propose in the middle of the game to stop the clock is the thing that they did relevant yes okay you've done a thing and here's the ball you did the thing with so i'm not obviously uh that well versed in american football but i know enough about how the game is played to make me think that it was if he's a running back it makes me think that

he did an incredibly long run in order to get a touchdown so he went like 60 yards or whatever to get that and they gave him the game ball for doing it which makes me think that right after that happened somebody ran 70 yards or something like that.

You are along the right lines and you've given our other two players all the key information they need to know on what running backs do. Okay. But this was a pre-planned celebration. They knew it was probably going to happen during this game. Okay.

Oh, did he get a certain number of touchdowns or a certain number of sports? Ryan, fill in the rest of that sentence. Yes, yes. So he must have like broken a record for touchdowns or like receptions, right? Like he caught the ball more than anyone else has. Really, I would say that I have a very cursory knowledge

and the way that I'm speaking about this is really making that clear, I think, to everyone. You actually said the words earlier. Was it receptions? Or yards run? Yards run. Oh, did he run a certain number of yards? 1,000 over the season.

That's not that many yards, is it? For an American football season, that's a lot for a running back. They do that in like 45 minutes in a football game. Come on, guys. So was that like a new record? And then you got like the game ball for that? It was an achievement.

They knew this guy's going to hit a thousand yards in the season, probably in this game. Other team, are you okay with us doing the ceremonial thing and like, here's the ball you did this with? So yeah, like you've worked out the ceremony. I don't feel too bad about like just giving you that one. Like that's what happened. So then I like Brian's idea of somebody else beating him in the same game.

Yeah. It's either somebody beat him in the same game or like the more morbid answer is that he broke his leg immediately afterwards. That's the other thought I can have for it being ironic. I mean, the pain here is emotional, I think, rather than physical. I'll tell you it's the last game of the season. Did they lose the big cup? Oh, was he retiring or something?

Maybe that was his actual last game, so it was emotional because he couldn't play anymore afterward. Possibly, but that wouldn't be ironically painful. So ironically painful implies that he can't run anymore. Okay, it's not that ironic. There's something else that can happen to a running back. Right. They can... get... Oh, did he, like, fumble or something? Or... got an interception based on him where he was supposed to catch it and then somebody else got it?

That wouldn't be ironic for the running, I think. Maybe he got tackled and... he wasn't pretty i okay here is where maybe my knowledge of uh of football might be helpful but what happened is that he was he he made the a thousand yards okay he made the full a thousand yards and they did it exactly when he hit a thousand yards the next session somebody tackled him and pushed him back two yards, which took him back to 998 or something like that. It was a six-yard loss. He ended the game and the season on

995 yards, despite the ceremony. Incredible. His quote was, right now, it's the most disappointing thing that has ever happened to me. Wow. That's so sad.

That's embarrassing. The following season, 997 yards. Brutal. It was the one after that when he got 1,000 and he retired at the end of that year. You would, wouldn't you? You would. It's your white whale, for sure. Hey, Tom, I'm loving these questions on Dungeons and Dragons and American football,

but next time I come on, can we do one on differential calculus? All right, well, let's see if there are any questions about differential calculus in this show. Lily, over to you. So this one was sent in by Hans Bartel. In 1912, Theodore Roosevelt decided to rerun for president. Three million pamphlets were printed featuring his photo and a speech. However, his team leader noticed the photo had a copyright note. How did they turn the situation around?

I'll read that one more time. In 1912, Theodore Roosevelt decided to rerun for president. Three million pamphlets were printed featuring his photo and a speech. However, his team leader noticed that the photo and a speech. However, his team later noticed that the photo had a copyright note. How did they turn the situation around? So it was printed on the photograph, a little thing saying copyright. Is that what am I imagining the right thing? Yeah, the photo did have a copyright note on it. And there were thousands of pamphlets. You can't just cross them out.

No, you cannot. Did he go and get a running mate called Copyright? No. Is the problem that the photo has a watermark on it, or is the problem is that the photo is copyrighted and they just can't use it? They printed three million of these, and actually turns out they don't have permission to use the photo yeah so basically the on the back of the photo someone noticed that there's a copyright notice but they didn't see that on the front of it okay so they've got three million pamphlets that if they distribute they're violating copyright and someone's going to sue them yes yeah okay um but this was teddy roosevelt rerunning right for office this was Teddy Roosevelt rerunning, right? For office?

This was his second? Yes. So he's already president. So did he just change copyright laws? Did he just shift the copyright laws and be like, actually, no, we've decided that this is cool. Was that how it worked? I don't care.

As long as we win, I will pardon everyone involved for copyright infringement. It's a civil tort. I wouldn't be able to do that. Never mind. If only he had the jurisdiction to do that. Okay. So somebody would have owned that copyright.

Yes. So somebody would be the person who they would be worried about suing them. They just killed him. Exactly. Yeah, I'm killed. Also, the answer to thising them. They just killed him. Exactly. Yeah, I'm killed. Also, the answer to this is you license the photo from him. Like, you just pay the guy some money, but... You're on the right line.

With the killing? Tom, what you just said is sort of on the right line. With the killing or the money thing? The money thing. It's going to be a really boring question if the answer is they license the photograph. So you're on the right lines tom uh basically the licensing cost for the photo was estimated at one dollar per copy but the campaign team found that the studio um that took

the photo they were not very notable like nobody had really heard of them before. So then if they didn't know, could they just do a collab? Do a nice little influencer post. This will bring a lot of eyes to your whole deal. Guys, it's a bunch of exposure for you. You're going to love it. Hold on. There's that line in Inception where the rich guy goes i bought

the airline it seemed neater and i feel like if you if rather than pay like three million dollars to license this photo you just buy the little studio nice that owns the copyright and you just take over the entire company and you let them forgive them so one of two things that you just said is correct. Which one? Which one do you think it is? It's either buying the company or being an influencer. All right, well, I said buying the company.

I'm going to stick with it. Buying the company. Yeah, I switch. I'm flaky as anything. I stick with influencer, but I think it's just somebody married someone in the company and then became the proprietor of it. I think it was a marriage situation. That kind of collab. Yeah, so basically because the studio was so you know not popular they basically turned to

them and said oh this would be great exposure for you so they asked the photographer to pay for the publicity amazing that's amazing i feel like these tricks are carrying on right now. That's not even we'll pay you an exposure. You'll pay us for the exposure. That's incredible. That is the goal. Yeah. The fact that they said yes to that, I'm like, what?

They said yes. Wow. Yes. That's amazing. It was $250, in fact. For a reverse license. That's amazing. It was $250, in fact. For a reverse licence. That's amazing. And then at the end of it,

he didn't even win the election. Terrible. Very last thing then. Thank you to Jason Roberts for sending this question in. In 1969, who asked the US Postal Service to change the state abbreviation

for Nebraska from NB to NE. Is it someone whose initials are NB? It very much is someone whose initials, well, somewhere whose initials are NB. Would we know this person? You would know the place. Oh, a place that's got the initials NB. You'd probably know the place. New Brunswick.

New Brunswick in Canada is very close to Nebraska and the post was going the wrong way because everyone just wrote NB. The Postal Administration of Canada asked the US Postal Service, can you make it NE instead? That's great. That makes sense.

With that, thank you very much to our players. Congratulations on running the gauntlet. Let's find out where can people find you and in the months between this recording and the episode going out,

what have you been up to? We will start with Brian. Yeah, you can find me on YouTube if you just search up Brian David Gilbert. I've also been doing a lot more stuff with Dropout recently and yeah, you can just find me around there. Hire me to write your TV shows, all those things, you know

If there are any TV commissioners listening, talk to Brian, he's good. Yeah, reach out Hannah, what's up with you? I'm actually Prime Minister now It's been a extremely busy few months and

yeah, I'm on track for my plans for world domination so um yeah where can people find you other than 10 downing street uh you know just search me i'm on i'm fry r squared on social media but i have shows on bluebird and bbc and podcasts and blah blah blah and lily you can find me on mostly youtube just search hevish five or you could just search Domino's. You'll probably find me. But I'm working on, you know, making new Domino's.

We just came out with a new Disney set. So very excited to get that out and, you know, just get more people into building. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at LateralCast.com, where you can send in your own ideas for questions. We are at LateralCast pretty much everywhere. And there are weekly video highlights at YouTube.com slash where you can send in your own ideas for questions. We are at Lateral Cast pretty much everywhere, and there are weekly video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast. With that, thank you very much to Lily Hibash.

Thank you so much. Hannah Fry. Yay, thank you. And Brian David Gilbert. It's been a pleasure. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.