Lateral with Tom Scott - 77: Experiments by bus

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Stuart Goldsmith, Sophie Ward and Katie Steckles face questions about gaming goals, street signs and Parisian pedlars. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Ike Hayes, Matthew Lamb, Parth Gandhi, Jason Roberts. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Three contestants. Seven questions. Forty minutes, no prizes. This is Lateral. Welcome to the show. First, we have from the Comedians Comedian podcast and comedian Stuart Goldsmith.

Hello, hello. Thanks for having me. It's lovely to meet you. I keep being told online that I sound like you, but I think it's by Americans who can't tell the difference between Caucasian English men. I mean, there are a lot of us around on the internet. We absolutely clutter up the internet, 100%. How is life? How is the podcast going? How is everything? Oh, it's great. Thank you. How is everything? Huge question. I'm very happy. I'm very happy.

Life's great um and the podcast is going from strength to strength i do in-depth interviews with comics about their creative process been doing it for years and years and i probably had a little a little kind of bump about a year ago when i hit episode 400 and thought am i just going to do another 400 of these and then i thought yes and so i'm doing that and i'm really enjoying it and in the meantime i do stand-up comedy and i do keynote speaking and comedy about the climate. That's my new thing.

I'm trying to combat the climate crisis and instill people with hope and doing that via comedy. So that is a huge, fresh and infinite challenge. Well, our listeners will be happy that no one else on today's show sounds like we do. There is a suitably different set of voices, so you do not just... Take the Tom and Stu challenge and listen to the show,

or watch the YouTube show with your eyes closed and see if you can tell who's talking. Is it Tom? Is it Stu? Is it Peter Dixon? Next up, we have from her own channel, Soph's Notes, and from BBC Radio 4's Seven Deadly Psychologies, Sophie Ward. Hello. Hello. I feel like I should try and speak like you now just to keep this running. Oh, don't.

Hello. It's me, Sophie. I feel like you two have similar hair as well, which is maybe another thing that generates confusion. I think one of us should be offended by that. Yeah, and it's not me. So congratulations, Stuart, on your hair. Thanks, mate. Tell me about the podcast, because that's the new thing. What have you been doing for the BBC? Yeah, so I'm co-presenting a series all about the seven deadly sins

called Seven Deadly Psychologies. So in each episode, myself and my co-presenter, Becky Ripley, who's a full-time legend and also radio producer break down the sort of psychology biology some history some philosophy around each of the seven deadly sins and unpack why we feel them and how we can live in society with ourselves and others whilst these sins exist so yeah it is nice to hear of a format that is a limited run no matter what it's not like you can find a second season of Seven More Sins. Oh, that was really pleasing to say.

Second season of Seven More Sins. Yeah. And last on our panel today, we have mathematician, presenter, author of Shortcuts Maths, and from her own site, Finite Group, Katie Steckles. Welcome back to the show. How are you doing? I'm doing okay, yeah. Good. Keeping busy, as usual. As always. There's going to be a dozen projects. What are you working on at the minute? So many things. So yeah, Shortcut Smats is my book that's just come out in October.

I've got another book that's due to come out with the Science Museum any day now. I'm waiting to hear about that. And I've just signed on to write another one that's going to be quite diagram heavy, which I'm very excited about. I've also now got a column in New Scientist. And as of January, I am now the editor of the puzzle column in New Scientist. So I'm compiling that. So it's all going on and all my usual kind of going and doing talks and events and science festivals and YouTube videos and everything else. Well, good luck to all three of our players today. Before we start, just a reminder that if you find the hidden immunity idol, you will be allowed to leave the show early. So until then, let's see if you're going to survive the first question, which is...

It's been claimed that Leonardo da Vinci and the British toy company Meccano both did this. What was it, and what were their motives in each case? I'll say that again. It's been claimed that Leonardo da Vinci and the British toy company Meccano both did this. What was it and what were their motives in each case? Before we start, can I just say I recognise that given the expertise of my two team members, I really feel like if this were D&D, I'd be the bard. So I'm just here for flavour.

Everyone on the panel got that joke. That was wonderful. Now, the bard definitely has their uses. Thanks, mate. I appreciate that, sure. Yeah, you've got your uses. No one can identify them, but they are there. And the bard really believes in themselves. And I know that producer and scriptwriter David

is just taking notes now saying, D&D intro for future episode. I feel like having been a bard several times in various different contexts, I feel like, I mean, we can't all be bards, right? An all-bard party. I think we've done that at some point. I think you've just invented the concept of a band. I love it. I'm into it. Yeah, we all step off our stools for the key change on the loot yeah i don't know much about dnd the bards like creative vibes yeah

kind of creative they often bring a loot yeah i'm saying this as if i'm an expert i'm very new to dnd i could just i was simply trying to get the message across that like, oh my God, Katie and Soph have got real hard skills. Whereas I kind of made a life for myself with soft skills, you know, getting by, trying to be charismatic. And these days everyone does that as well as the hard skills they bothered learning. So I'm like, oh, okay.

Well, I feel like the hard skill that matters for this question is if anyone has played with Meccano. Is that, is Meccano the sticks and the cogs? Is that what that is? It's like the flat metal strips that are rounded at the corners with holes all the way down. It's like Lego that hurts. It's Lego that's quite painful to play with. It's better for fighting than regular Lego, from my recollection as a child.

Classic Bard. Classic Bard. Yeah, high hit point lego yeah that's i mean i feel like my experience of mccarno and my vague knowledge of things that leonardo da vinci did should help me here but i'm not getting anything really i think leonardo da vinci i'm thinking i'm thinking circles i'm thinking the guy in the circle right that's famous i mean i know it wasn't called that the guy in the circle as it is officially known uh vitruvian man was i think it was like an attempt to like create something that had the perfect proportions uh and i know a couple of maths things about it so like it has uh the golden ratio in it uh i can imagine that the reason for including that is because it was kind

of a cool fashionable thing at the time i guess uh i don't like the golden ratio sort of does turn up in a lot of places but not as many as people say it does i love the idea that something i don't really know what the golden ratio is but it sounds timeless and yet not as cool as it was i love the idea that something can be timeless and still fatty it's just gold depreciating yeah yeah it's just everywhere if you if you talk to some people and then if you actually look it isn't really that everywhere but it's you know it's just everywhere. If you talk to some people and then if you actually look, it isn't really that everywhere. Oh, I see. But it's nice.

It's a pleasing thing. But I can't – I sort of wonder if there's something about Meccano that uses it, that they've got the different sizes of pieces. It's got little circles in it, so you can get Meccano, you can put your axle through – your plus-two axle, good for stabbing. You put that through a bit of Meccano and it'll go round and you could use it like a compass. So definitely Meccano is wheels and points and...

On that basis, is our answer drawing circles? Yes. Could Leonardo, or that was Giotto, I think, could do a perfect circle freehand. So there could be something like that. Now, my soft skills are just watching Tom's face to try and see to play warmer colder i'm thinking circles no i'm not thinking so i'm doing a lot of that as well like the psychoanalysis

of tom's and you are all quite cold at the moment unfortunately it's not about vitruvian man and that sort of mathematical perfection so he built a helicopter right this is the thing about wings my first thought was wings don Don't know what context, but something related to wings. And this is something they both tried to do. So what can have, thinking laterally for a moment, what can Leonardo and Meccano in different eras have both tried to do? Would it be something for children or something? Could it be... It was a good Tom face. It raised an eyebrow. The question did say it's claimed that they both did this this isn't really something

you attempt it's just claimed that they did this oh i see so i mean like if i i'm gonna say da vinci didn't actually build a functioning working helicopter because if he did i'm sure he would know about that because helicopters would be existing a lot earlier than they actually did yes um and i almost wonder if like mccarno attempted to put together a kit that was a functioning helicopter but couldn't somehow or yes we don't know from the question who claimed it whether leonardo and mccarno claimed it or whether it was claimed by a mysterious third party. So it's been claimed that they both made flying machines that didn't work, potentially.

Or maybe that did work. Maybe it's claimed that they both did do it. Maybe there's no proof of Leonardo having built and flown in his helicopter, but it's claimed that he did. And maybe there is a claim that someone can create a flying machine out of Meccano. I think the words to focus in on there are Sophie saying, didn't work. There's something about the things they're making. They both failed, don't we all? Time travel?

Meccano time travel? So some of the other things that da Vinci designed would be things like a tank and a catapult. Engines of war, weapons of war, instruments that didn't work. Did they produce something that was meant to be used by the

military but then it didn't work? Da Vinci was quite famously a pacifist. Yeah, I was going to say it doesn't feel da vinci was quite famously a pacifist yeah i was gonna say does it feel like a da vinci vibe really did they both make weapons that purposely didn't work oh that's that's very close now i'm enjoying the idea of mccarno doing yeah yeah i keep thinking about the mccarno aspect but i guess for kids you want to give your kid like a weapon that won't actually damage anything and if da vinci was also a pacifist then it's like oh here's a catapult did they both invent nerf in different areas because i remember lego they famously didn't do originally lego didn't make any brown or green pieces because

they didn't want um children to make weapons they didn't want tanks and army you you can make army Lego. So something like, I mean, so if you're weapons that don't work, weapons that deliberately don't work. What did Leonardo and Meccano both actually produce? Plans. Yeah, drawings. Yeah, like instructions for making things. It's claimed that they both created instructions for a weapon and leonardo decided not to use it maybe destroyed his instructions for a weapon

or they they made instructions that didn't include all of the steps oh that's so good yeah okay so they they left because they wanted the person who was making it to have to come up with the final steps themselves or something? Is that the logic behind it? I'll take that. That's absolutely it. Wow, they had to earn a gun. So for Leonardo da Vinci, it may have been for copyright, so people couldn't just steal his designs

unless you were enough of an engineering brain to notice the mistake. It could have been because he didn't want the military to use them. For Meccano, it is claimed that they sometimes had deliberate errors to challenge the ingenuity of the kids who were doing it. So deliberate mistakes is the connection. Now, honestly, that's what I'd claim if my instructions had accidental mistakes in them when I was a toy company.

I often write jokes that are deliberately unfunny. Check your audience. Are they worthy of the last word? Also, the little dorky kid in me that every time I saw a mistake on the board was like, that apostrophe is wrong. Lives for that. Going through the instructions and being like, where's the mistakes in here? Yes, pedant-proof diagrams.

Yeah, nice. So yes, Leonardo da Vinci and Meccano, it is said, both added deliberate errors to their designs. Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We're going to start today with Katie, whenever you're ready. Okay, so this question has been sent in by Parth Gandhi. The question is, why did Jeremy Morris of Britain's Medical Research Council investigate London's double-decker buses from 1949 to 1952? So why did Jeremy Morris of Britain's Medical Research Council investigate London's double-decker buses from 1949 to 1952? This question is tickling something in the back of my brain.

I'm sure I've read this somewhere. London's double-decker buses at that period would have been hop on, hop off. Yes, they'd have been the route masters. And that must have caused enormous... Yeah, route masters. There must have been huge numbers of unreported deaths. So for people who have not seen the ridiculous buses that London used to have,

the back left, so the bit by the pavement, was just open. It was just a platform that you can jump off and jump onto at any point on the bus route, with no door, no guide, no anything. They tried to bring them back about 10 years ago when Boris Johnson was mayor. And A, it didn't work well.

And B, they had to station someone there as just a safety check because it is now the 21st century. Because the old days were fun. I mean, I nearly got seriously hurt by one of those when I was a kid because I tried to jump off while the bus was still going three, four miles an hour days were fun. I mean, I nearly got seriously hurt by one of those when I was a kid, because I tried to jump off while the bus was still going three, four miles an hour and did not

look at the traffic before doing it. And that genuinely was quite close to death for a couple of seconds. Were you participating in medical research and considerably older than you look? I'm just picturing someone on that corner, like every time someone wants to get off the bus like tapping them on the back like a parachute vibe like you're ready to go it was more like not yet

not yet okay fine but like if you were driving in London in like 1995 or something like that and some dorky kid nearly jumped out in front of your car and you nearly killed him that That was me. Sorry. That was me. Well, I can confirm that the medical research was not to do with injuries sustained by jumping off of the back of the bus.

My first thought with this was bacteria, like some kind of like swabbing bacteria from different areas, maybe like, I don don't know i'm thinking bacteria that's my kind of energy i've seen footage of someone like hitting public transit seats with like a beta thing and all the dust that comes out of them like there's there's a lot of quite nasty stuff in there there's also a plot point in some book i've read where someone takes a vacuum to it to pull up all the DNA and then spreads it over the crime scene that they are creating. So there's no forensic evidence.

Oh, that's a nice idea. Hiding in plain sight, DNA-wise. Yeah. Nice. I'm finding Katie very difficult to cold read. She's very implacable. I'm just enjoying all of these ideas. We're giving all these offers out and I'm not seeing a flicker of recognition.

I can also confirm that it is not pathogen related even though that would be very cool. Darn it. It's definitely too early for DNA stuff

so okay. Jeremy Morris is it Jeremy Morris's name that's scratching the back of your head Tom? Sounds quite pleasant a little brain scratch but my brain's currently

empty of scratches. Is it just in terms of what people do for medical research I'm thinking of that kind of opt-in in terms of what people do for medical research, I'm thinking of that kind of opt-in medical experiment. Like what people are often trying to do is find a cure for something. So I wonder if there is a...

Oh, Katie moved her head. This is no kind of a system. Okay, could it be something to do with the bus drivers? Could it be something to do with the amount of time they're spending sat down? I don't know. Oh, yes. Why would buses be a useful thing

to do your medical research on? Or the conductors. Like, they had actual ticket sellers on every bus back then. So is it to do with... Normally, you do medical research, perhaps, with a bunch of people in a room. Is there something about the fact

that bus routes are traveling around um specific places like a a specific route that people travel over a certain amount of time so they loop back and every time they go past a thing i'm not a science guy i feel like we had a moment of getting quite close to something and then just went off on a tangent. What, in that bit there? Well, so you mentioned that on the bus there is a driver and potentially also a conductor who's selling tickets. Okay.

That is important. Okay. A driver and a conductor. Medical research as to how people get on when forced to do the same thing over and over again. How they stay upright as the same thing over and over again. How they stay upright as the bus moves around and wobbles. Well, there was also something you specifically mentioned about what the driver spends a lot of time doing. Well, I was going to say sitting versus standing.

Spending your whole day sitting versus your whole day standing. Oh, and the conductor stands. Yeah, and other things as well. Sells tickets. This is a double-decker bus we're talking about. Climb stairs. as well. Sells tickets and... This is a double-decker bus we're talking about. Climb stairs. Climb stairs. Is this a passive job

versus an active job with all other things equal? Yeah, pretty much. Ah, brilliant! It was a double-decker bus where you have two, I guess, men back in those days

running the bus and the driver would be sat down... It was me and Tom. Me and Tom. Standard Caucasian guys. You can't tell us apart. I can't tell which one's which. It's a nightmare. The driver would be sat down. It was me and Tom. Me and Tom. Standard Caucasian guys. You can't tell us apart. I can't tell which one's which. It's a nightmare.

The driver would be sat down for the whole time. The conductor would spend a lot more time walking around the bus and climbing, apparently, a total of 600 stairs

on a typical shift. Wow. Which is terrifying. And they discovered that coronary heart disease was 50% more prevalent in the drivers than the conductors. Right. Because this is like early days of the value of finding that exercise is important

for stuff like that. Yeah definitely and obviously if you want the real stats it was 2.7 cases per thousand against 1.9 so it's not a massive massive increase but it was a measurable link between exercise and heart health. I wonder if they'd known that information at the time whether the driver would have been quite so smug about sitting down oh can we swap can we take turns i'm gonna stand up and take a walk before the next question i think i think this is just like a lovely example of of a study that you could just do in situ because the control measure is just there for you and apparently they also did a similar thing with uh postal delivery staff and sorting office clerks who otherwise have very similar lifestyles, but just do a lot more walking or a lot less walking.

Yeah. I love that. In today's economy, saving money is like an extreme sport. Coupon clipping. Robo code searching. It takes skill. Speed. Sweat.

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They are gradually disappearing by one Olympic swimming pool every 30 minutes until nothing is left. They've been known about for over 400 years, but they will vanish for a few months of 2025. What are they, and why will they vanish for a while? I'll say that again. They are gradually disappearing by one Olympic swimming pool every 30 minutes until nothing is left. They've been known about for over 400 years, but they'll vanish for a few months of 2025.

What are they and why will they vanish for a while? I mean, my first thought was Olympic swimming pools. Talk about hiding in plain sight. that would be such a devilish question maybe france is removing the parisian swimming pools every half hour one of them just gets demolished guys please donate to the olympic swimming pool fund that was i don't know when you like buy one olympic swimming pool i was like the answer's right there one swimming a swimming pool seems like a good measure of a liquid rather than a gas or a clump of animals was i guess volume is it's volume in

general so it could be any like liquid or gas or but it's not like area of forest or something like that because you wouldn't measure that as a volume i I guess. And it's one pool is disappearing every 30 minutes. And there'll be none. But you were like, there'll be none for a period of 2025, which suggests they're not going forever. Is it ozone? Because I know like ozone is, we haven't fixed the hole in the ozone layer,

but we've done great, but it's on the way back, but not yet. So there's just 2025, like the near future, but they're not there. You can't refer to it. It feels like something at that level, like an atmospheric thing or something large scale, given that it's a swimming pool every 30 minutes. But yeah, I can't think why it would disappear

and then come back again. And also they, the wording of the question was they rather than it. Yes. Like you've all locked in on some very good wording of the question was they rather than it. Yes. Ooh. Like you've all locked in on some very good bits of that question. Yeah, it's a they, and it is definitely a volume calculation here. Okay. It's not the non-binary community.

I hope not. What volume can we express as they? Is it like swarms of birds? Yeah, or fish or something. Can you measure sardines in Olympic swimming pools? How much volume can we express as they? Is it like swarms of birds? Yeah, or fish or something. Can you measure sardines in Olympic swimming pools? But then also, how could they all disappear and then start coming back again? Well, it could be to do with their rate of procreation.

Could it? Like we're losing species. Like a species is being depleted, but thanks to... If they all disappear, as far as I understand it it that's a real game changer population dynamics that's an edge case oh could it be could it be something in space could it be stars or constellations or nebulae or something like something's going to go in front of them exactly so we won't see them for a few months that's a very good logical leap stewart that is an excellent i'll get me loot logical loot okay yeah the idea of something being covered yeah because when you're saying it's vanishing where's it vanishing to well it's not yes removing itself from existence because

it's going to return if they've only been known about for 400 years that would track also yeah so uh they uh the the pleiades the stars from somewhere they've been known about for over 400 years it's not it's not stars then that's that's all yeah we're looking for discoveries around 1600 Specific constellations? Something where they've been known about in the way that Pluto was kind of promoted and demoted? Are they moons of a particular planet? Because 400 years makes me think there's most stuff that you can just see in the sky. People have been staring up at that for literally centuries. So it's not going to be something that's visible with the eye. It's going to be something that the invention of telescopes allowed us to see.

The moons of somewhere like, I can never remember, who's got all the moons? Is it Neptune? Enceladus is the one on Jupiter. I'm not giving you any more hints right now. You are so close there. It's not the moons of Jupiter,

but it's the blank of blank. And you just need to fill in the last... Is it the rings of Saturn? It's the rings of blank. And you just need to fill in the last... Is it the rings of Saturn? The rings of Saturn. I think I heard about this. Oh, yes! Great! That's Saturn's rings, because they're all like just gas and rock and stuff, right? And I heard that they were getting thinner.

Yeah. I can't remember where I heard that, but I was like, oh, oh no. Oh, wait, that doesn't affect me at all. Saturn's too smug with its rings, honestly. Saturn's too smug with its rings, honestly. It is one Olympic swimming pool's worth of ring stuff gets pulled into Saturn every 30 minutes or so. That's still going to take 300 million years. But why are they going to vanish for a little while in 2025? Because Saturn's orbit will take it so far away.

Or it will take it behind something. Not quite. Will the rest of Saturn vanish at the same time? No. Saturn's orbit will take it so far away, or it will take it behind something. Not quite. Will the rest of Saturn vanish at the same time? No. Is it because they'll be exactly so long? Because they'll be end-on? Yeah, that's what it was, yeah. Yeah, they are end-on to Earth.

So they are going to vanish from our point of view because you can look at it through a telescope and that ring is so thin at that distance that for a few months, it's just not going to be visible incredible amazing well done that was yes and in got there wow incredible scenes stewart over to you for the next question okay so this question has been sent in by ike hayes in 2017 a group of revellers celebrated New Year's Eve in the surroundings of Coromandel Peninsula, New Zealand. Their venue, complete with a picnic table, circumvented a local ban on public drinking. Although not strictly legal, the police chief admired their

creative thinking. Why? I will give it to you one more time. Coromandel? I've been there and I can't believe... I keep thinking Coromandel, but then I think I'm thinking of Hammond. You are. I've been there as well and my brain is blanking on what it was like, which is really annoying.

It's beautiful, like all of New Zealand. In 2017, a group of revellers celebrated New Year's Eve in the surroundings of Coromandel Peninsula, New Zealand. Their venue, complete with a picnic table, circumvented a local ban on public drinking. Although not strictly legal, the police chief admired their creative thinking. Why? So, like, drinking is illegal, I guess, in this public place, but they've produced or brought with them some kind of structure that means that they're

technically not in public yeah their venue that included a picnic that's interesting wording in it like venue that included a picnic table or whatever it was like were they on the back of a vehicle that was technically private property they've invented a giant drone that constantly hovers just an inch off the ground with ground effects. They're not on the peninsula, they're above it. With a picnic table. Yeah, I'm just watching, imagining the police officer standing next to them and them hovering eye to eye. My other thought was the fact it's New Year's Eve as well.

Is there something temporal-wise, time-wise that's playing with it? But that would mean, what, they just drink in like, playing with it? But that would mean what they just drink in, I don't know what that would be. Oh, just for the leap second. There's a leap second in there somewhere. All right, how fast can you neck this beer? We don't technically exist at the moment. We can do what we like.

You're less, I'm fascinated by the idea of the temporal, I want you to run with it, but I think you'd be running in the wrong direction. I mean, I bet Katie's thought more than mine. So let's have a think of this. It needs to be something that's impressive enough that the police obviously, like if you're just like,

oh yeah, we're in our van. They had a big sign that said, we love the police so much. And the police were just like. Creative thinking. You mentioned earlier on a legal loophole. You're in the right kind of realms when you discuss, maybe not a hovering drone,

but something which is sort of legally inflected. I have previously done a video on the fact that it's legal to sell alcohol from a hovercraft anywhere in the UK. You don't need a license for it as long as the hovercraft is moving on a journey. Excuse me, I'll be right back. I'm just going to go and exploit that for the rest of the day, right?

I got like a two-person hovercraft and sold drinks off it to friends. I wasn't following the trading standards rules on pours or anything like that, but in theory... Oh yeah, the pints were terribly poured. They really were. We weren't following any standards on that pipe pouring, Tom. You try pouring a

pint on a hovercraft that's vibrating that much, it's just all foam. But the cocktails were fantastic. But that exception's there to cover, like, serving alcohol on trains and things that go through multiple council areas, so you don't have to get a licence in each one. So I'm wondering if there's something about a conveyance,

something that they're on that means they're excluded. My brain just constructed the sentence, where's the stupidest place you could put a picnic table? I immediately answered it for myself. The question of our age. Yeah. I'm picturing as well, I don't know why, and I think this is almost definitely going to be wrong. Like if you've got something with you, like you can sell alcohol if you've got your horse with you.

But I don't think it's going to be that. That reminds me of the, was there a famous tale of like an Oxford law student who demanded a pint of ale and a full meal during his exam by invoking a legal law and on the way out they find him three shillings for not wearing a sword something like that i had a friend who did law at oxford and it was like 90 just looking up the arcane rules of oxford and if you turn up to your final exam in a suit of armour, you automatically pass. There's that legend at every university about some little loophole that someone used, but Oxford's got more than most. I can tell you it's not about bringing a picnic table. They could have done this without a picnic table. That simply eased the comfort.

Okay. I'm imagining like a boat or a raft or something that they're just like floating along the river and having a party on the boat and that technically isn't in the park You are in the right ballpark in one respect and can I just say I love asking the question It's so nice to know

I'm so happy right now You're getting such a power trip, honestly I can see it in your eyes It's the peninsula, so it's surrounded by ocean. Now, maybe public drinking is only prohibited on land or they thought they could interpret it that way. But I feel like they got a boat is not a satisfying answer to this question. No, it's not a boat, but the peninsula is important.

They chose it deliberately. Oh, they didn't have they chose it deliberately oh oh they didn't okay if you are on a beach and you dig for like a little bit water is going to come up so did they like get a load of shovels and like cut off the tip of the peninsula at the beach and then try and claim they were now on a private island or the tide what Did the tide naturally cut off a bit of the beach and that was it? You're both very, very close. There's a specific sentence that I'd like...

There's a specific legal phrase that I'd like you to get to that was their justification. Objection. International waters? Yes, exactly. Yes, Katie. That's always the loophole when you're at sea.

International waters. The group used low tide to build their own artificial island in the estuary. And once you know this, you can Google it for a picture. Other search engines are apparently available, but I've never heard of any. And it's an absolutely brilliant picture of what looks like maybe six or seven people in shorts and T-shirts on a constructed island locals joked that they were taking advantage of the international waters law to escape the ban however the legal eagles will recognize that they would need to be at least 12

nautical miles out for this to even be considered hence the police chief sort of going yeah all right fine with me oh amazing what legends. What legends. That's great. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Ike Hayes, for that excellent question. All right, we will move swiftly on. Thank you very much. Bucaniste have been trading along the banks of the River Seine for over 500 years. Their green boxes of secondhand books are popular with tourists. What question, unrelated to the book trade, do Parisians often ask them? And one more time.

Bucanistes have been trading along the banks of the River Seine for over 500 years. Their green boxes of second-hand books are popular with tourists. What question, unrelated to the book trade, do Parisians often ask them? The buccaniste, it doesn't sound plural, but does the buccaniste refer to the individual people? It's like it's a profession. Do Parisians often ask them? The bouquiniste, it doesn't sound plural, but does the bouquiniste refer to the individual people? It's like it's a profession. Yeah, with apologies to everyone in France listening to this.

It's really difficult. It has an S on the end, and my French pronunciation is not good enough to be able to give whatever subtle distinction French people use to tell that. Okay, but a bouquiniste is like a book peddler along the river. But that word in itself is interesting because obviously if it was French it would be like

livre, it would be like book in French, right? I looked this up. I looked this up and no one knows why it's called bouquiniste. Not with any authority. But it is book, like book as in, because when you said bouquiniste I thought buccaneers and thought pirates. Yes. It's book as in books, they sell books. Sorry, you've got me on a linguistics tangent.

This is unrelated to the question. It's not my turn to talk here. But buccaneer comes from bucca, which is a way of cooking food over a fire that came from, I think it was North American indigenous languages of like bucca or something like that. It's a wonderful example of like barbecue

just becoming the word for pirate. And it has nothing to do with books, unfortunately. I don't know why bookanists are called that. And I suspect the French Academy doesn't particularly like the fact that it's got the word book in there. I'm on board. It's like a specific type of bookseller that just sells secondhand books out of a green box are they like wearing the box have any of you been to the banks of the seine in paris and seen well i mean my partner's half french and so and her family's based around paris so i should

know some stuff about this i feel like it's the ones who there's like rows and rows of boxes and in the boxes there's loads of books and And I feel like there's also often around there like other stuff like little drawings and like paintings and frames. And in the Eurostar advert, there's an ostrich walking around them because the idea is like, why fly when you can walk kind of thing or take the Eurostar. So it's more like market stall energy, I think. And it's a question we're trying to determine a question that people often ask so specifically a question that parisians often ask so not something necessarily that tourists would ask them right so what assumptions would you make if you were a parisian and you saw the green presumably once you ask the question you

know the answer and you don't need to ask the question again so we're assuming parisians who live a little further out in paris are coming in and seeing them unless it's like something that that particular group of people would be able to pick up on more easily like not like what's the weather but like something that changes day to day that they've got a head start on because of the fact that they're on the riverbank all day okay you're great at this that That's a great thought. It's probably wrong. Nah, Tom's face suggests it wrong. You sort of stumbled past the correct answer without paying any attention there.

I gave the example of weather. Is it weather? It is. What's the weather? So I'm going to expand the question a little to ask why. Oh, is it how much of their stalls are they putting out? If you deal in secondhand books and you lay out your wares and then it rains, then you're going to get a weather eye after a while. So you clock what they're, by telling how much of their stalls are out, you can trust a booker niece to know what the weather's going to be like

because otherwise they'll have to bring all their books back in. So smart. Yes. Traditionally, Parisians could ask the booker niece their stalls are out, you can trust a bouquiniste to know what the weather's going to be like, because otherwise they'll have to bring all their books back in. Correct. Yes. Traditionally, Parisians could ask the bouquiniste, and my producer has just said that bouquin meant rare old book in Middle French. Thank you, producer David. Nice. Middle French, the sexiest kind.

They have hundreds and hundreds of books in big, open, green boxes. So if they're out, chances are the weather's going to stay well for a while and you might be able to ask them how long they'll be there. Incredible. Just for the record, I was goal hanging there. That was Katie's victory. No, guys, you tag-teamed that. That was great. Yeah, that was good.

Sophie, it's over to you for the last guest question of the show. Yes, of course. So this question has been sent in by Matthew Lamb. Thank you, Matthew. A row of terraced houses in Manchester, England, was completed in 1897. It was named after a particular feature, but this was tweaked to Anita Street

in the 1960s at the resident's request. What was the original name and why? I know the answer to this, so I'm going to... Oh, that's someone who lives in Manchester. Yeah, I live about a quarter of a mile from it. I did think, Kate, when you were on the call. Okay, let me read it again for the benefit of Tom and Stuart. So, a row of terraced houses in Manchester, England was completed in 1897. It was named after a particular feature, but this was tweaked to Anita Street in the 1960s at the residence request.

What was the original name and why? And the original name was, it was a feature of the street. Exactly, yeah. It was named based on a feature of the street. So was a feature of the street that it particularly stank or something? Was it like a negative? Was it like covered in muck street from local factory outlets?

I mean, there's plenty of names like that. The only one I could think of is absolutely filthy. Yes, same here. We're both thinking of it and it's in York. Begins with G. Yes, it does. Genuinely, we cannot even allude any further to that and keep this podcast with a good rating really is that bad we'll tell you about it

later when we're not okay that's enough for those curious to look it up um so so so was it was it that they presumably if they would like the name to have been changed then that suggests that it was like it didn't reflect well on them but they would have but if it was called that at the point of creation of the houses that the building of the houses it must have seemed okay to the people who built it so was it something which means something in manchester but the built the developers weren't local and they they kind of used a term that means something locally that they didn't know. You don't need to know any extra Mancunian lingo for this

but you are saying some very positive things. There used to be an asbestos factory next door and it was just known as Asbestos Street. No, that is not it. Anita Street is a weird name. Did they knock a letter off or change a letter or something like that, as the street in York did? Oh.

Is there something close to Anita? Like if you remove the letter at the start and end, because that would make the signs cheaper to change as well. Or did the signs keep getting stolen because they... Because it's in Manchester, what you're saying, Stuart. Well, I've seen the sign for Canal Street enough times.

I think there is a street in Levensham that that's true of, that they've just stopped bothering to replace it, and I cannot remember what it's called. It's just behind the train station in Levensham. Wow.

Yeah. Rob me street. So are we closer with the so it's not to do with lingo is it a word thing like if is it changing a letter or adding a letter so yeah letter letter changing letter removal is exactly right um and stewart you were saying very good things about the difference in context between then and now anita i'm looking i'm doing a word game with anita now to try and work out what's like the i'm wordling this i don't like how i'm having to work and well maybe think as well about things that you know something that they would have been proud enough for this thing this feature to be a thing in the street so much that they would name the street was it

something to do with like it had indoor toilets which is great when you've only had outdoor toilets but as soon as indoor toilets are a thing you're just talking about toilets keep running keep running okay um like a pat is it pan the anita is something to do with like chucking a bed pan or something like that anita's the woman who took the bedpans out no that's not no because anita was the clean version i was wondering whether it started off as like pan slinger street or something because it um you're right with it so you're on the right lines and it's about letter letter removal i'm just waiting for someone to have tried every letter in front of the word anita until they get to the point where it becomes obvious. I've been trying to do that while talking

and it's really difficult. So there's letters on either side. Janitor. Sanitary. Sanitary Street. There we are. It's got to be. Ding, ding. We have a winner. Yes! It is Sanitary Street. I'd only got to J. I was on Janitor and I kind of got stuck there

for a little while. Do you know what, Tom? I'm so proud of this. I was working backwards so that we'd meet in the middle and that's true teamwork yes so basically obviously around that time in the late 20th century manchester's population's booming it's the industrial revolution and essentially this street was one of the first streets in the area where every house had an indoor toilet and sink so they called it sanitary street and then in more modern times people were like we don't want it to be called sanitary street so they took off the s the r and the y and called it anita street i'm just having the time of my life it's actually genuine it's like literally a quarter of a mile that way out is it oh yeah

it's a really nice little street such a lovely street like it's the only bit in the whole of that area that's still houses rather than flats and they're worth a fortune like it's does anyone ever sneak in and redraw the sanitary

on the thing that would be like correct historical vandalism yeah the best kind of vandalism producer David

has just said that the sign you referred to Katie is the street with no name keeps getting stolen yes that's what it, Katie, is the street with no name. Keeps getting stolen.

Yes, that's what it's called, yeah. Oh, the street with no name. Yeah, it's just behind the train station in... Levensham. Levensham, yeah. And so they would put a sign there that said street with no name. Yeah, and then someone would nick it and then they'd just put another one. Just repeatedly. Yeah.

It's just gone out, yeah. One last thing then. At the start of the show, I asked in which sport do veteran participants try to score less than their age? Any guesses from the panel? I was going to say golf,

but that's really easy. Depending on how much golf you're talking about. It's the correct answer. It's the one thing I thought of where you're trying to get under a particular score. No, stop getting it right, I want to brainstorm it! A round of golf usually takes around 72 strokes if you're good at it. So trying to score less

than your age if you're a good golfer, but a veteran golfer is one of the goals they go for. Amazing. That reminds me of juggling. Anthony Gatto, one of the goals they go for amazing that reminds me of um juggling there was anthony gatto one of the greatest jugglers who ever lived was able to juggle his age when he was five years old he could juggle five balls so that's and i think that's probably a bit more common now in a tiktoky way there's probably kind of mathematical nerd jugglers who are seven who can do seven and maybe eight who can do eight but uh i mean that is barely related i just wanted to talk about anthony ghetto what great names wow what a legend well that is our show for today

well done everyone um let's ask what's going on in your lives where can people find you we will start with katie uh yeah mostly you can find stuff i'm doing at finitegroup.co.uk uh we've got a little patreon there and all the stuff i do gets posted there for free but if you join you can also join our little discord and watch our live streams and things selfie find me uh as soph's notes on youtube instagram all those kind of things and that's where i'll post what i'm up to and stewart uh if you're a podcast listeners i hope you are you can find the comedians comedian podcast literally anywhere and you can find my my website, StuartGoldsmith.com, or follow me on Instagram at StuartGoldsmithComedy. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at LateralCast.com.

We can also send in your own ideas for questions. You can find us at Lateral Cast pretty much everywhere. And we have video highlights several times a week at YouTube.com slash Lateral Cast. With that, thank you very much to Stuart Goldsmith. Thank you very much. Sophie Ward. Thank you very much. Sophie Ward. Thank you very much. And Katie Steggles.

Thank you. I'm Tom Scott. And this has been Lateral.