Lateral with Tom Scott - 80: The identical trainers

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

Ella Hubber, Caroline Roper and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything' face questions about forgetful fumbles, Chinese contraptions and tender timings. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Gerhard Catarius, Jacob, Aidan Crellen, Bart Verbanck. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Behold the DQ freezer! An extraordinary freezer holding all the Blizzard flavors of the past. It's opening to bring back Rollo and Brownie Batter. Grab them before the DQ freezer closes. Only a DQ. Happy tastes good. What gadget for removing irritation translates to not seeking help from others in Chinese? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Okay, yep, gotta go now. Yep. Yeah, we're just about to start the show.

It's actually really weird. No, no, no, you put the phone down first. No, no, no, no, no, you put the phone down first. No, no, no, you do it. Okay. No, bye. Bye. Bye. Sorry about that, just putting in my pizza order for later.

Here for a slice of banter on this week's show, we have the team from Let's Learn Everything, who apparently found that joke far funnier than I did. Thank you for the raucous support there. That was great! For me, it was how much of a Tom Lum joke that was. Oh yeah. From someone else. Well, yeah, maybe that's my...

For me, it was the commitment to a visual bit on an audio medium. Yeah! Did I need to have one of my headphones out on a phone to my face? It helped with the character. It helped with my motivations, darling. It was believable. We should introduce yourselves. I mean, you are regulars here, it's always a joy to have you on.

But let's start with Tom Lum. Hi, I'm Tom Lum. That's me. I get worse at it every time. You know what? That's all the introduction you get. I was going to ask you about... We're moving on. No, better luck next time. Caroline Roper, how are you doing?

I'm doing good, thank you. Thank you so much for having us back. It's lovely to be here. Well, it's always a pleasure. I think I made a cameo in your Christmas special as one of the people sending in facts, so lovely to be back. Yes! Thank you! Ah, so good.

Like, plug the podcast. What have you been up to? Oh gosh, what have we been up to? Nothing new, we've been carrying on with the same old same old recently. God, good selling, Caroline, Jesus. Hey, you get nothing but consistency from us, okay? Also here from Let's Learn Everything, and with a black cat perched just behind her, Ella Hubber. Hello.

Hi, I'm Ella. I'm also one of the hosts of this perfectly adequate podcast. We just had an amazing investigative climate journalist on for a really fun episode. Oh yeah, we do serious stuff too now since we last on. Yeah, from the podcast that you had to be the first person to say the name of, Tom, that's what you expect. We're too focused on the science. We're not great at the other stuff, the introduction. Well, good luck to all three of you. Welcome back to the show.

Our questions are very much like pizzas, because they're hot to handle, a bit cheesy, and hard to digest. And while you argue about what toppings you want, I will deliver the first question, which is... This question was sent in by Bart Verbank. Thank you, Bart. question, which is, this question was sent in by Bart Verbank, thank you Bart, since coming home from a work trip, Mike has a tendency to drop things by accident. Why? I'll say that again, since coming home from a work trip, Mike has a tendency to drop things by accident. Why?

How long ago did he go on this work trip? How long has he been back? Like, has he just gotten back? Is he still carrying stuff? Oh, I thought you were thinking he's been gone for 20 years and he's now aged. Everything's shi- Ooh, Ella! Oh, I like that! Brian, the short two sentence horror stories, short stories here. My first thought is maybe they were on a boat? And so they have land legs, you know, and so they're a little loose on dropping stuff or late shift at the butter factory.

My guess is maybe they're an astronaut and now their grip strength is worse. Oh, yeah. We learned, you know, muscle mass massively decreases. Not even, not even. I'm going to call this, it's not even their grip strength. It's just their used to letting go of things because of zero gravity. And it stays, oh yeah. Oh yeah, so every time he goes to brush his teeth and then he just lets everything just

fall to the ground. And he just has to let go and it just stays there, yeah. He just has to be used to it. Yes, you have absolutely nailed it. He worked at the butter factory in space for 20 years. Oh, I'm so sorry, I would have held that in if I thought that was the right answer. That was a great bit of teamwork and deduction, thank you. It's nice when we get the first one just out of the way, that's brilliant. Yet Mike is an astronaut, he's just come back from a mission on the ISS,

he's having difficulty readjusting to objects obeying the laws of gravity. I take issue with that note because they have always been obeying the laws of gravity, it's just that everything else around them was also obeying the laws of gravity at the same speed. When you say, like, learning how that objects obey the laws of gravity, it sounds like they're relearning object permanence, it, like, learning how that objects obey the laws of gravity, it sounds like they're like relearning object permanence. It's like, man, I have to learn that. It's like, sorry, I forget sometimes.

There is quite a famous comedy sketch about this, of an astronaut just repeatedly trying to demonstrate something with a pen and being surprised that it's not there. That one is fictional, but there is the true story of Joe Edwards, who was pilot of the space shuttle in 1998, who let go of a cup of lemonade when asked to take off his shoes before a medical examination. So it is actually a thing that happens, just not quite to the extent that that sketch happens. We rattle straight on then to our first guest question, and we'll go over to Ella. This question has been sent in by an anonymous listener.

Between 1997 and 2006, why could you be certain that most 20-year-old men in Singapore owned a pair of New Balance trainers? Huh? Once more. Between 1997 and 2006, why could you be certain that most 20-year-old men in Singapore owned a pair of New Balance trainers? Tom, you had a joyful look on your face and I thought that meant you knew it, but instead it was the joy of being like, what on earth? What is happening? Unfortunately, I do know this one. So Tom, this is over to you. Okay. Alright.

Okay guys, come on. one. So Tom, this is over to you. Okay. All right. Hey guys, come on. Was somebody giving them away for free at one point? The year is 2000, 2001, right? It's 1997 to 2006. To 2006, okay. The internet is a thing. Oh, it's because they all realize that it's one of the best shoes. It's, you know, you got a good sporty, it's good all-around shoe.

That's the only reason why. And today's sponsor is New Balance. Has someone else taken out an ad read on this show without my knowledge? Yeah, sorry, are we not allowed to do that? No, should I not have? If you're getting paid for it, absolutely not. We want a cut of that. If you just happen to enjoy New Balance trains, good luck to you.

We're a New Balance family. That's not a bad scam, is it? Get product placements in on other people's... Oh, yeah! On other people's chats! Oh! Having said that, that's basically just the talk show circuit, isn't it? You've got a product to promote, fine.

I am famous to have to... I will deign to appear on your late night talk show. Plug my movie. I am currently product placing right now because I am wearing a hat for our podcast. Hello, where did you get that amazing hat from? Okay, okay. Just let me quickly. Tom, you were kind of... Although you're not there, you were kind of right on the idea that quality is important.

Oh. Oh, oh. Like, maybe they're not there, you were kind of right on the idea that quality is important. Oh. Oh, oh, like maybe they're made there? And then they can get them like hot off the presses or something like that? It's not like fruit, you know. Shoes, trainers can travel fine. Oh, these have gone bad. They've turned green already. You just want those shoes where they're just straight out of the factory, still warm, just you can mold them to your feet.

Oh, that new shoe smell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do, because when it comes to like guitars, I know that like there's one make of guitar from like Gibson or Epiphone where like after a certain year they switched from making them in like Korea to Mexico, I think. And like there are people who are like ride or die on either side being like you gotta get it from like this this this place because like they did it better back then or something like that. So it's not it's not the location. And use but and quality is interesting because my other thought was this is some like this

is some like lottery thing like it's like a Willy Wonka shoe situation. No, because most 20 year old men in Singapore are wearing these. I owned a pair, at least. Is it something like, oh, my, you're saying most 20 year old men, is there like, is that a demographic of people who do a specific type of job, and therefore having this shoe is better? Oh. Oh. Oh, okay, Ella.

I'm trying not to say anything, because Tom Scott does this, where he just lets us ask questions until we run ourselves in circles. But I can't help but make a face. It's really easy to get into, where you just keep asking individual questions. And what's better is when there's discussion, there's conversation, and someone goes, oh he's never been there! Okay, converse. Oh, so they're converse.

Oh, well done, that was very clever. That's what friends of mine call a golf clap pun. Is it not even like profession? Is it just like lifestyle differences where more people walking at that point and therefore New Balances were seen as the best shoe for doing that? It wasn't like a fad around the time. Is this a tax related or like import related? Like maybe they were cheap because they could, they were like imported

under a different category or something like that. No. Oh, is it the opposite that so many people worked for New Balance that they were giving the shoes out for free? We're back to here. I'm so sorry. Let's see. Is, were every other shoe available just awful in comparison?

I think just try and think about like, the age of the men. Was like a famous Minecraft YouTuber wearing them? It was 1997 to 2006. Was an early pioneering Minecraft YouTuber. No, no. You're before both Minecraft and YouTube there, Tom. They were recording themselves building LEGO on VHS. Yeah.

They're like, one day, I was born in the wrong time, I would have been huge. Was it a movie star, an athlete, someone that was... No, because Alice said it wasn't a fad, which makes me think it's none of... it wasn't like a celebrity endorsed thing. It's about like the shoe itself. Could it be like, does it have a secondary use? Were they using it for just like, wearing them? For what? Like those shoes that have the little toy in the heel? Can people like keep their really chunky

phones as like the sole of the shoe for a bit? No? Okay. really chunky phones as like the sole of the shoe for a bit. No? Okay. Okay. Um, let's circle back around. You've said, you said Caroline specifically why they might all be wearing the same shoe. For work? In some way? Do they like not leave any marks or something if you work somewhere where you need to be like quiet or you need to not leave shoe marks Where do you where do you wear new balances? Why would most men young men in one country be wearing the same thing? Was wait were they were they given for like the army or something?

Like is it was it mandatory gear for the army? Yeah, yeah they were they were trained as supplied for military service between 1997 and 2006. So the age is because in Singapore male citizens and permanent residents started two-year period of military service at the age of 18 and that just happened to be the new balances just happened to be the shoes that were provided in that period. They've changed now. They can... They're New Balance or ASICs since 2001.

I couldn't have named New Balance or any specific shoe, but you said 20-year-old men in Singapore all have the same thing. Like, well, I know something about Singapore. That's going to be... That's Tom's lateral brain for you, my guy. That should be their new logo though on New Balance. It says, trusted by the Singaporean army since these years and that year. But not trusted by the Singaporean army since 2006.

We're not sure why. We don't include that part. There's no reason why. Those are the best years for that. Next one's from me, folks. Good luck. Which statue could alternatively be represented by Squidward Tentacles, Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, and Hello Kitty in that order? In that order? I'll say that again. Which statue could alternatively be represented by Squidward Tentacles, Dr.

Bunsen Honeydew, and Hello Kitty in that order? Whoacles, Dr Bunsen Honeydew, and Hello Kitty, in that order. Who's Dr Bunsen Honeydew? Yeah, that's stripping me up. That's the one that's losing me. Oh, okay, this is one of those questions. And then meanwhile, yeah, someone else is like, who's Squidward Tentacles? Yep. They must be, it must be an animal. Sounds like a rabbit, I would assume.

Yeah, I was like, is this a hydra? I think you can work this out without knowing who Dr. Bunsen Honeydew is. I think the other two are enough to get this, so I'm not going to answer that question for you right away. Okay, an octopus and a cat. You said sequentially, and at first I thought it was like all these characters have like posed as like Michelangelo's David or something like that. I was like I was like that's the commonality. But I was trying to think if it's like a like horoscope or something like a Chinese New Year if they were like and I don't think octopus is one of the animals

What's It does sound like a monstrosity. This is also I say Tom. This is the one of those questions where We're gonna look back at all of our guesses and then laugh at our interpretations where I'm like it looks like a monstrosity and it's gonna be like, you know, like the the at our interpretations where I'm like, it looks like a monstrosity and it's going to be like, you know, like, the, the, uh, Mary with like Jesus or something. And we're going to be like, Oh, we didn't mean that. We didn't mean that. Sorry. Now I'll stand by that. And so is it, yeah. In that, cause the question said in that order, not altogether in that order, are they like holding hands? You know? Like... cute. Cute.

It's a statue, so it is going to be in that order spatially rather than temporally. Okay. I love, I love... just somewhere in like New Jersey, there's a statue of just Squidward and Hello Kitty holding hands. That's so cute. That would be cute. Octopus, anthropomorphic little cat. And something in between them. Is it Medusa involved?

Because octopus, snake, that's snake, I'm so dumb. That's snakes. Please, oh man. I thought I was so smart for a second. Move past the idea of like a hybrid creature between these three things. I cannot get past it. Yeah, yeah. I also wonder if the original statue is even an animal or if it's like the person who, not the person who created all of these things, but, like,

were they the founder of something that then led to all of these things being created? Yeah, I think they... I mean, Hello Kitty and SpongeBob are separate. Alright, I'll clue you in that Dr. Bunsen Honeydew is the scientist from The Muppets. Oh, right. If you've seen The Muppets, there's the short scientist, and then his tall assistant Beaker that goes meep meep meep meep and keeps getting hurt. It's the one that isn't Beaker in that pair, is Dr Bunsen Honeydew.

Is there a statue of a scientist with an octopus and a cat? My brain is so linear, which is ironic for this show. Linear is kind of the right tack to take here. If you line those three up in that order, you could argue they represented this statue. Squid science cat. Squid, squid, squid cat statue. But do they have to be lined up side by side, or are you looking like head on at them, so you see the cat at the front?

Oh! Left to right. I think I'll clue you in at this point. Left to right. I think I'll clue you in at this point. Left to right. Squidward science cat. Squidward Muppet cat. Think more about what they look like. Tentacles.

Tall and tentacles. The legs. If you have eight legs. If you're a scientist. If you got like a little bow and you're cute. I really wish I could visualize things right now. Oh yeah, Caroline has aphantasia, so. Here is a clue. That won't help. That will be incredibly unhelpful for this question.

There's a reason I'm so quiet right now because I just can't, I'm like, I can't participate in this, I can't see things. Maybe draw something, Caroline. Yes! Yeah, that could help. My A-level in art is going to be so helpful right now. Depending on how accurately you remember those characters, it may well help. I'm really stumped.

This is... They all have something in common, but rather they're all lacking something. Um, trousers. Is that right? I think, I think, I think Ella's right on that. I'm pretty sure Hello Kitty wears trousers or wears... I don't think she does. Doesn't she wear a little dress though?

Which then negates the need for trousers? Yeah. So is that the answer? No, no, no it's not. Are you drawing it, Tom? Yeah. It's the need for trousers. Yeah. So is that the answer? No. No, no it's not. Are you drawing it, Tom? I need to, I'm... A good way into this would be Hello Kitty quite famously doesn't have something.

A mouth? A mouth. I have no mouth and I must scream. Oh my, oh it's the, see no evil, hear no evil, like, just say no evil. Yeah, talk it through, Ella. No ears? Squidward has no ears, hear no evil, I guess the Bunsen has no mouth. A muppet with no eyes.

No eyes. With no eyes, oh, so see no evil, and the Hello Kitty has no mouth, so say no evil. It is the three wise monkeys. Wow! Yep. Squidward has no ears, so hear no evil. Dr. Bunsen, honeydew, has no eyes, so see no evil. Hello Kitty has no mouth, so speak no evil.

And that is the old saying, the ornament. I thought that might be the way into the question. I thought that was one thing there, that even if you don't know your muffets, and even if you haven't seen SpongeBob, there might be a trivia fact about Hello Kitty that'll get you in there. That she famously has no mouth and must scream. This episode is brought to you by Secret. Secret deodorant gives you 72 hours of clinically proven odor protection, free of aluminum,

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It's easy and only takes a few minutes. The sooner you get started, the more time your down payment has to grow. Open an account today at questrade.com. Tom, over to you for the next question. This question has been sent in by Aiden Krellin. In the Xbox game, SpongeBob SquarePants Battle for Bikini Bottom, speedrunners found that it was possible to skip certain sections. Repeatedly pausing the game made it lag on purpose.

What bizarre strategy did one gamer find to make this glitch happen consistently? I'll read it again. In the Xbox game, SpongeBob SquarePants Battle for Bikini Bottom, speedrunners found that it was possible to skip certain sections. Repeatedly pausing the game made it lag on purpose. What bizarre strategy did one gamer find to make this glitch happen consistently? as a fan of watching speedrunners. Does this give anything to you? The problem is, when we... We've had a speedrunning question before when we were on, and it was so... not something I ever would have thought of.

Because it was very practical. Famously, yeah. As I said back then, I know nothing about video games, so I can follow that up with, I know nothing about SpongeBob SquarePants, so I'm basically useless on this question. Every speedrunning tactic is like a new lateral question where it's like, it's just an entirely, yeah, I can't say anymore, but I'm excited for y'all to guess at this.

What console did you say this was on? Did you? Xbox. Xbox. Okay, so... The original Xbox, I believe. Pausing is the start button. And the strategy... Is the strategy to do with... Is it... I'm just going to ask...

I want to know if it's a practical thing or not. Like, was their cat walking over their, you know, controller? And that's how they realised it happened? Or is this a strategy that they're using consistently and they just have that all the time? Because I do know there used to be those controllers you could buy that would repeatedly send button presses for you so you didn't have to hammer the fire button. Like I remember those for like Nintendo 64 because a friend had one when I was a kid.

Like, if you just wanted to fire a lot, you could just hit the turbo button. But I don't think there was ever a, like, turbo start button or anything like that. Yeah, is it, like, gluing down the start button so it just repeatedly... On the scale of turbo button to a cat stepped on my controller, it's actually more a cat stepped on my controller. It's actually more a cat stepped on my controller. Oh! Okay. This is a weird one.

Was this something that one person in particular was doing, or was this something that this person was doing and then it became like everybody then started doing it? It's that sort of a thing. You need to repeatedly, quickly hit the start button then. You need to just keep bashing that as fast as possible during some sequence of the game. I'll be honest, that's sort of the baseline strat for this. This was sort of something that made that work even more consistently, right? I see.

Repeatedly pausing the game made it lag on purpose but this allowed that to happen more consistently and I will say Tom I think you will have some info on this because this is sort of a like hardware-y thing okay so was it like if you did it at a specific point in the game like during a cutscene or something like that would it then make it lag more, or is it specifically in the gameplay itself? It's more general purpose than that, because I think you can use this glitch in multiple places. If you want something to lag more, then there's a few ways to do that.

Like this is just general computer stuff, you can put more stuff on screen, you can have more things for the computer to deal with. You could also do stuff in the background, like an Xbox is just a PC with some extra stuff grafted on, or less stuff grafted on, one of those two things. So you could run... Don't let the console people hear you. You could run... An Xbox is special console people hear you. You could run... An Xbox is special and it's better than PlayStation and computers.

You could run additional stuff in the background, or you could just heat it up. Like, it's a computer. If it runs too hot, it will slow stuff down. So you could just put your Xbox on top of a heater and get it close to the maximum operating temperature so the chip throttles down and that makes it lag more. You're getting there, but it's dumber. You deliberately scratch up the CD. Oh! Oh! So it's rubbish. Ella, you're correct. Oh!

You're so... you're 90% there. Okay, okay. It's just a slight minor detail. You can't easily have a scratched data disc. An audio CD can skip sometimes, or the laser will lose its focus, but it can usually come back. Exactly. But data, you'll lose a lot of stuff. But some old games used to work... Right, so you can't just scratch it.

Some old games used to work that you had a different data and audio section. Like, the data would load in and then it would just play the music off the disc. But that wouldn't cause that. Would doing something really dumb like smearing it in Vaseline or something like that cause this issue? You know? Caroline, you're... Basically, I'm not going to make you guys guess it.

There is one specific person who is attributed to licking their disc. Oh my goodness! Come on, man! Tom, you're right on the money because this isn't something that you can like permanently damage it like a like a like a vinyl record. This is something that you just have to like make it a little harder to read so that like maybe 50% of the time It doesn't read correctly So yeah, like the way a lag glitch works is like if you lag the game enough Like if you make the game wait like two seconds like the physics engine is gonna be like, oh man

Like two seconds have passed that I haven't like run anything and so it'll try to like do like less good physics and less good math. And one of the theories is that when you were pausing the game, when you unpause the game, it would read the music from the disc. And so if you could make it harder to read, it would lag the game more consistently. There is, I think- Oh, wow. I mean, it's gross, but it's good. That's a slogan, and I don't know what it's a slogan for.

I don't know, like Cheetos or something, something like a messy food or something. Well, I say that along with all great speedrunning stories, this is attributed to swagmaster Doritos, I believe. Oh, fantastic. Oh, brilliant. And I think they would use thumb prints in like a pattern became the more consistent way to do it besides licking the disc. Yeah, yeah.

And a lot of this info came from a great video from shift on YouTube who talks about the this speedrunning strat I know we're done with the question but just quickly normally when you start the time on a speedrun you start it from where it can be and You can lose time So I would think that you would have to they would have to recall themselves putting the thumb prints on the disk It's technically time by doing that. Oh yeah! Alright, good luck with this one.

In 1676, why did Robert Hooke publish a nonsense word spelt C-E-I-I-I-N-O-S-S-T-T-U-V? You do not need to write this down. Thank you! In 1676, why did Robert Hooke publish a nonsense word spelled C-E-I-I-I-N-O-S-S-T-T-U-V? It was very, uh, very sing-songy. I liked that. No, it just had a certain amount of poetry, the way I said it. There's a triple I and a triple S in there, and it kinda had a cadence to it.

C-E-I-I-I-N-O-S-S-S. and a triple S in there, and it kind of had a cadence to it. I still have the jingles for the phone-in numbers for kids' TV shows in the 90s in my head because they were always just played out multiple times a show. We don't need to remember what the word is, so... So that means it's not like a different word that's jumbled up or something like that. Yeah. Where did he publish it? I just said you don't need to write that down. I didn't say the letters weren't important, I'm just saying you don't need to...

Well then I do need to write it down, Tom! Who was the author again? I apologize. Robert Hooke. I was too... Robert Hooke. D-C-I-I. Well, is this a classic lateral... The jingle worked! You can remember it! Robert Hooke. D-C-I-I. Well, is this a classic lateral...

The jingle worked! You can remember it! Yeah. 1877 cars for kids, baby. Oh, don't get me started. That's a crime. It's one of those things where if I'm driving in the US and I hear just one note of that, it's like an instant reflex to go and slam the radio off button.

It's full on, like, demolished man earworm. It's awful. I listen to a lot of podcasts from LA and there's a regional jingle for the county of Van Nuys and I have that now. That's how pervasive they are. I don't even live there and I now know Keys on Van Nuys. Keys on Van Nuys! Tom, you're really getting us off track and I now know Kees on Van Nuys. Kees on Van Nuys. Tom you're really getting us off track and I'm getting stressed. We haven't gone anywhere. Is this, are these Roman numerals a classic library trick?

Yeah, because that's always it. Always Roman numerals. Not all of these letters are Roman numerals, no. I was going to say some of those I don't remember being. Yeah, there's no N or T in Roman numerals that I know of. Is it a chemical? No, way too early. No, it could be.

Chemical element formula. Ooh, I kind of like that. I'm getting a subtle shake of the head. Oh. Published a word. Is it like a key? A secret key to a book where he buried his family treasure? They are in alphabetical order. I don't know if that's relevant. Oh.

Oh! Oh! Missing letters. They don't have to be in alphabetical order for this, but you're right, Tom, that is a bit of a clue. Interesting. Are they? And Ella, you said secret key. Yeah, like a… I don't know the word for that. What's it called when you have a…

Like a codex? Yeah. Where did he publish it? Did we hear that? Is it like a newspaper? I don't know where, but just generally published and made public. Okay, because I wonder if he's like 60. Did anything happen in Portland around that time? Was there a war happening? Probably, because it's that time of the world. A printing press thing, a dictionary thing, a book-related thing. A press thing, a dictionary thing, a book-related thing. A way to track. Yeah, he just ran out, like the keys on his typewriter just broke and that's all he could

type. So did he print those letters in that order? I don't know enough history to know whether that would be printing press or whether it would be handwritten and published out. My history dates aren't great. But it was more important that those letters got out into the world and had his name attached to them. And, Ella, you said secret key. I just don't know what the key would be for, unless, well, what's... This is why I should have written the letters down, Tom.

It would not make a blind bit of difference. C-E-I-I-N-O-S-S-T-T-U-V. I am astonished at how well that jingle worked, Tom. You weren't reading that. I wrote it down. Oh. No, I just defied your rules. He's only allowed to do the lingo, Tom.

It was the rule, I just said you didn't need to. You will not be able to deduce the meaning of this. Okay, so it's not like if you were to shuffle those letters around, they spell something else? No. That's not what I said. I just said you won't be able to work this out. So maybe it is that. It's totally that.

So it's like a secret key, and if you figure it out, it's an anagram. It's an anagram, yes. It's the location of the Declaration of Independence. Do not try to solve the anagram. You will not be able to solve the anagram. I'm looking at it! Hands up, hands up! I'm not working at it, I'm not working at it!

You may be able to find other bizarre anagrams in there, but you won't find the actual one because it's in Latin. Oh, okay, fair enough. That makes me feel better. Thank you for saying that, because I would just be staring at this for the next 10 minutes otherwise. Does anyone know who Robert Hooke was?

No. Okay. No. Pirate? But it does sound very piratey. You just going off the word hook there. Yeah. No!

Robert, a famously piratey name! Robert Hooke was a scientist, and lots of other scientists use this technique as well. But it's not chemical, it's not like elements. Oh, it's Latin. Oh, oh. A scientific Latin anagram. Was this to like, make a pattern for something, or like to prove that you came up with something, but in a code?

Yes. Yes, it was. Talk through it. Why might that be the case? Because you wanted to like... Edison is around stealing everyone's ideas. Is this like the equivalent of like holding a newspaper up in a picture or something? Yeah! Ella, Tom, between the two of you, like, it wasn't Edison. It's a little early for Edison. But yes, this was a way of him protecting his work and saying, I got there first. But why wouldn't he just publish it? Is this like a proof or a chemical thing that like, he had to like still figure it out to

solidify it? Or he like wasn't sure? That's it. That's the missing piece. Yes. He needed to double check his work. He'd had the idea. He'd done the first experiment. But this is a 17th century. Like, there's a lot of scientists working on a lot of stuff. So he puts out this anagram. You can discover anything. Yep. It resolves to, I'm going to butcher my Latin because I don't know Latin pronunciation, but it resolves to,

Utensio sic vis, as the extension, so the force. It is a measure of elasticity that became known as Hooke's Law. And that is him going, I got there first. If someone else out there figures this out, I can reveal the anagram and say, actually, this shows I got here first. Holy moly! Wow! Oh, that rule!

That's really clever! Is it? Because I could say, I could bring out an anagram about anything and be like, yeah, I invented this thing first. You'd have to find something. Yeah, it is also just a phrase. It is a phrase. It needs to be difficult enough that someone's not going to work out the amygdala, but also

simple enough that it is obviously just about that when it is resolved. Right, okay. These days people use computer algorithms to produce hashes of particular things. There's famously a couple of times someone has just tweeted out what looks like a random series of letters and numbers, but it is a phrase that's been run through a particular cipher so in future they can prove that they knew a thing at a time. Galleria Borghese, buongiorno. Hi, do you have guided tours today? Si, si, ma certo! We have today at 10.30, 11.30, 12.30, 1.30, 2.30, 3.30...

Imagine having Europe all to yourself during the Air Transat off-season promo. Book your flights to Europe starting at $549 at airtransat.com. Conditions apply. Air Transat. Travel moves us. At Real Canadian Superstore, our colleagues collectively speak over 100 different languages and counting. We pride ourselves on items from different parts of the world. From hard to find specialties to tastes that'll remind you of childhood. So welcome everyone.

Come shop the world right here in our aisles, with more ways to save at the Super Welcome Store. Real Canadian Superstore. Caroline, it is over to you. This question has been sent in by Jacob. Lovers Katie and Richard hate to be apart, so they agree to think about each other at a memorable time before they go to sleep that evening.

However, Katie does this exactly 49 minutes later than Richard. Why? I'll say that again. Lovers Katie and Richard hate to be apart, so they agree to think about each other at a memorable time before they go to sleep that evening. However, Katie does this exactly 49 minutes later than Richard. Why?

Katie doesn't love Richard as much. Katie's just by 49 minutes. Katie's just really bad at time management. My immediate thought was time zones, but there's no 49-minute time zone that I can imagine. There is one 45-minute one, I think, somewhere. Is there? It's in the middle of Australia. And it was always going to be a video at some point if I ever got there, but it is like two days' drive across the Nullarbor Plain, and it's called

the Nullarbor because there's nothing there. It's just a straight road for days. And it's this little town that is on the border of two states and just split the difference between them and had an unofficial time zone. And it was not worth the effort to drive out there for one video that doesn't really have much visual about it. It's a very kind of early Tom Scott video, that. Well, here I am.

And wouldn't you look at it? Look at the clock! Whoa! That's a short these days. I was thinking Sunset. I was thinking that they both agreed on Sunset, but that seems like an obvious thing. Well, because I was on the wording, like, memorable event, I think is the phrase you used, before bedtime.

And so that does feel Sunset. Her watch was upside down, so she didn't read it properly. I'm really bad at reading anal analog, I'll be honest. So yeah, that's like a classic lateral thing is like analog watch versus. Wait, what did you both just say? Analog. Analog watch? Interesting.

Her watch was slid. Is it actually, I was going to say as a joke, I feel like that's like a- They were using a sundial and like Tom said, the sun... they were in different places and the sun hit it differently. No, it's nothing like that. But analogue watch is close somehow. It's thinking about like, types of watches or things like that, yeah. Is there any way you can accidentally have a clock upside down or something like that and permute it so that the numbers accidentally read something similar?

Like I don't know what that would be. Oh, like you read the minute hand and hour hand backwards or something, you reverse them? No, if it said like a digital clock it would be like six and, well, what's four upside down? That's not a thing, is it? But it doesn't have to be 49, it could be like half past four. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, of course, yeah. It could be like 18... I'm drawing this in front of me, and there's got to be some sequence

of numbers where if you read it upside down or in the mirror or something like that it looks like it's 49 minutes later. So I think I've sent you down a bit of a rabbit hole here by thinking specifically about analogue clocks. You don't need to go quite that far down, but thinking about what they might be looking at rather than thinking about a specific time. They weren't picking 11pm, they were looking at clocks. Stars? Were they looking at a star? Was one of them in space and they had time dilation?

Oh, see they are. Were they in different places when a gravitational wave passed through them? No, nothing that exciting, Ella. And it's not my rotation thing. Okay, fine. No And it's not my rotation thing. Okay, fine. No, it's not your rotation thing. Sorry, it's to do with clocks. I've lost the plot. It's an event, a momentous event.

Like New Year's Eve. It's not an event, Tom, it's a memorable time for them before they go to sleep that evening. Like 11.11? That's like a cute time. Oh, that would be 49 minutes before midnight. It's not the fact that it's just before midnight. That's why I'm thinking about different. Oh, I don't want to give too much away. But Tom, you're really, really close.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which Tom? Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom. Yeah. One of them is looking at, one of them has 1111 as the time in their head. Why might the other person not have that in their head? Did they think they meant 11? 11? Like, don't forget, it should be 11. 11!

These are digital clocks though, right? These are like numbers. Yeah. Oh. Okay. So why might they have different numbers in their head? Oh, they have different types of, you know, military time, you know, 24-hour time versus 12-hour.

Yeah. Is that it? So. You are absolutely spot on. 2311. Wait, that doesn't make sense. Yeah, that's more than 49 minutes. Right? Because I'll leave you to try and figure out that last little bit then. How Yeah, how does that work with the 24 hour versus? Think about 1111. Think about what that number looks like when you're looking at it on a digital clock. Yeah. Unless it's 11.

Think about it on a 12 hour clock, 11 11. What does that look like when you're looking on a clock? It's a series of vertical lines. It's 1111. 1111. Yeah. Uh huh. And then on a 24 hour clock, it would be, is it two, three, one, one? So on one, one, one, one, all of them are the same. Is it two, three, two, three or something?

Or like two, two, two, two? What was that, Tom Lum? Two, two, two, two? Two, two, two, two. Yeah. So shall I explain it? Wait. Is one do it on one, one, one, one, and one on two, two, two two two! Yeah. So, shall I explain it? Wait. Is one doing on one one one one and one on two two two two? Yeah. Absolutely spot on.

Of course it is! Because if you go the other way, I said it was 49 minutes before midnight. Of course it is. You go 49 minutes back, your two zeros change to 11. You go 49 minutes back from that, of course they're going to change to two and two as well. I was right, I was going the wrong way. Yeah. Absolutely spot on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When all the numbers are the same. When all of the numbers are the same. That was their memorable time. They had both agreed to look at the clock and think of each other when all of the numbers on the clock were the same. One of them had

a digital clock that was on the 12 hour clock. So it was 11 11. And the other had a 24 hour clock or a military clock. So that he looked at it at 22 22. So it's 49 minutes apart. And they still made their love work in spite their differences. I cannot express how dissatisfied I feel doing so. Ella, listen Ella, love works in mysterious ways. When you find it, you know. Which leaves us with the question from the start of the show, thank you to Gerhard Kattarius for sending this in. What gadget for removing irritation translates to not seeking help from others in Chinese?

A backscratcher. Yes! It's a backscratcher. Spot on, Tom. Oh! Oh! Wow, Tom, take all the fun out of it. It's genetic!

Yeah, I asked our question team to double and triple and quadruple check this, because it sounds like one of those weird anecdotes about isn't the Chinese language funny, but no, the three characters in Backscratcher, if you break it down, it is not to seek and person. Not seeking help from others. Wow. I do have that tattoo on me, so that makes sense. I literally was thinking back to my dad and my grandparents. It might have actually helped.

Because that is, it's a thing. Thank you very much to all of our three players. Where can people find you? What's going on with the show? We'll start today with Caroline. You can find us, we are Let's Learn Everything, and you can find our podcast, all of our socials at Discord server on let'slearneverything.com. Tom, what kind of things can they find there?

You can find a lot of stuff similar to the show. We've covered birds in space, we've covered speed running, and very recently we also talked about copyright. So that could be something similar to the... we didn't cover that codex that Robert Hooke had, but we cover similar stuff. And Ella, you can't tell me what's coming up, why not? Because every episode we surprise each other with wonderful and interesting science miscellaneous

topics. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We are at Lateral Cast basically everywhere on the internet, and you can see video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast. Thank you very much to Caroline Roper. Woo! Ella Hubba. Woo!

Tom Lom. Woohoo! I've been Tom Scott. That's been Mario. This has been Lateral.