Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Prosecutors PUT THE SCREWS into Trump PERFECTLY

Episode Date: September 1, 2024

Ben Meiselas and Michael Popok are back for the weekend edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On tap? The Special Counsel is hard at work to keep Trump criminally accountable, obtaining a brand new indictment against him, and telling Judge Chutkan how to move the case forward over the next 90 days or so, as Trump tries to stretch the case into 2026; Trump’s transparent effort to the delay the inevitability of his being sentenced by NY State Court Judge Juan Merchan on 18September, hits a major roadblock; Fulton County Election Workers Shay Moss and Ruby Freeman should be living in Rudy Giuliani’s Manhattan apartment and Palm Beach condo and driving his Mercedes soon, as they file a new federal case to liquidate his assets to pay their $146 million dollar defamation and punitive damages judgment, and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Join the Legal AF Patreon: https://Patreon.com/LegalAF Thanks to our sponsors: Miracle Made: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://TryMiracle.com/LEGALAF and use the code LEGALAF to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Fum: Head to https://TryFum.com/legalaf or scan the QR code on screen and get a FREE GIFT with the JOURNEY PACK today when you use code LEGALAF Rocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to https://RocketMoney.com/legalaf Lumen: Head to https://Lumen.me/legalaf and use code: LEGALAF to get 15% off your lumen today! Hims: Thanks to HIMS! Start your free online visit today at https://hims.com/legalaf for your personalized ED treatment options. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the game. to wager Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BedMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers internet.

Visit rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. When you drive a Mazda, you'll find out why RSUVs won more 2024 IIHS Top Safety Picks than any other brand as of June 2024. Find out what makes Mazda different at Mazda.ca. 24. Find out what makes Mazda different at Mazda.ca. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students. With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month. Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms apply.

This is an ad from BetterHelp. As kids, we were always learning and growing. But at some point as adults, we tend to lose that sense of curiosity and excitement. Therapy can help you continue that journey, because your back-to-school era can come at any age. And BetterHelp makes it easy to get started, with affordable online therapy you can do from anywhere. Rediscover possibility with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's betterHELP.com. No biggie, Michael Popock,

just special counsel Jack Smith and paneling a secret grand jury in Washington DC that indicted Donald Trump again on a superseding indictment. Just another week on Legal AF, huh? I want to show everybody the superseding indictment that was brought by special counsel Jack Smith this week. As I mentioned, it was a new grand jury that was impaneled.

You may recall me and Michael Popok talking about a special counsel Jack Smith previously requested a delay of some of the briefing to federal judge Tanya Chutkin in that Washington DC federal criminal case against Donald Trump, where judge Chutkin in that Washington DC federal criminal case against Donald Trump, where judge Chutkin wanted kind of an update following the Supreme Court's absolute immunity ruling.

Special counsel Jack Smith was like, I need a little more time judge, why we now know. A special, a grand jury was impaneled in secret and now they've indicted Donald Trump again. We'll go through the superseding indictment. We'll compare it to the original indictment back in August of 2023. What are the differences? What stayed the same? Notable the 1512 C2 obstruction of official proceeding charges are still there,

but don't you worry, we'll break it all down. Special counsel, Jack Smith and Donald Trump's lawyers also filed a joint status report. Special counsel, Jack Smith is requesting a streamlined briefing on the dispositive motions like absolute immunity. And Donald Trump's, I guess, attempt to try to dismiss this case on the grounds that special prosecutors

should not exist, special counsels should not exist. Jack Smith wants them all streamlined together. We'll talk about the discovery plan proposed by Jack Smith. What Donald Trump is asking for will break that all down. Also, you may recall our reporting that Donald Trump tried to remove the Manhattan District Attorney criminal case where Donald Trump was convicted on 34 separate felony counts a few months back.

Trump tried to remove it to federal court before federal Judge Hellerstein, who had previously rejected an attempt to remove the case from state court to federal court a while back before the proceedings really kind of kicked into gear. Donald Trump was trying to derail the sentencing, which is still set to take place on September 18th. Judge Hellerstein rejected the filing on technical deficiency grounds. It's a pretty embarrassing grounds to have this rejected on that basis. Don't you worry, Michael Popak and I will break that all down as well. Also, Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss, who secured essentially a $150 million judgment against Rudy Giuliani are saying, show me the money.

They are seeking to enforce that judgment now in New York and to seize his assets, attach his assets, garnish his wages. We'll break it all down here on Legal AF. Michael Popak, a very busy legal week indeed, huh? Who if you and I four and a half years ago had said this is going to be our docket one Saturday in 2024 as we lead into a presidential election, we would have been like, are you what are you? Are you on Edibles? What are you smoking? That is never happening. But I love about this show might as touch going over 3 million subscribers this week, and

that intersection of law and politics that you and I stand on the corner of, I don't want to say invented, but certainly stand on the corner of, is that we're watching that split screen right now. As Donald Trump is literally driven crazy by a poised, charismatic, confident leader in Kamala Harris, who won't take the bait as she prepares for the debate. Um, and he doesn't know what to do about all that. And so he's going after her in pornographic, disgusting, misogynistic, racist ways at trying to bait her and she won't bait, she'll debate, but she won't

be baited. And I love watching that as the criminal justice system puts the screws that Donald Trump in a nonpartisan, impassioned, independent professional way, prosecutors are not giving up grand juries are not giving up federal judges aren't giving up state judges aren't giving up any other day jobs and they're going gonna hold Donald Trump accountable just like any other two-bit defendant who happened to try to overturn and overthrow our democracy. So we're gonna get down to that part, but we always have in the back in the split screen in the background what is going on with the electoral calendar and what not only defendant Trump

is trying to do not well, by the way, we'll break down all the ways he's failing and losing and shrinking before the incredible shrinking presidential candidate he's now about one foot tall. You've got all of that going on and then you've got that criminal justice breakdown that you and I are going to have to end civil court breakdown as the court system continues to do its job and plaintiffs and prosecutors to hold Donald Trump accountable. You may have given me a good name for the title of the episode, prosecutors put the screws into Donald Trump or something to that effect. I will work through it. Hey, Michael Popak,

let's get right into this superseding indictment. Everybody will recall that Donald Trump was indicted in the Washington DC criminal case, the original indictment was back in August of 2023. Right now we are in August of 2024. Donald Trump filed that motion to dismiss on the grounds of absolute presidential immunity, which was rejected by federal judge Tanya Chukin back in 2023, she denied it, said, you can't be above the law. Then Donald Trump appealed it to the DC circuit court of appeals, a three judge panel made up of Democrat and Republican appointees, and they said,

you're not above the law. What a ridiculous concept. There are no Kings in the United States of America What then Donald Trump appealed it to the United States Supreme Court and they said yes, of course There are kings. We are conservative meaning we want to conserve the monarchy We're gonna create a doctrine for you Donald because you us. And we're gonna call it absolute presidential immunity, where if there are core constitutional functions, official acts, which needs to get a broad presumption

that everything you do is in office, even if you order your DOJ to do things, which they're supposed to be complete independence, well, that gets immunity also. And we're gonna give you, yeah, you're not even asking for it, but why don't we give you evidentiary immunity as well. So even evidence of official acts

and core constitutional functions can't be introduced if you are criminally charged. Here you go, Donald. So that's what the Supreme Court did. They remanded the case back to the district court, meaning they sent it back to the district court for further proceedings. Judge Tanya Chuck is like,

what's up, Jack, what are you gonna do now? I don't know why the Supreme Court did this, but their right wing, the judge didn't say this word for word. I'm giving a little bit of color to it. The judge was like, well, what are you gonna do now, Jack? The Supreme Court apparently says that there are kings now in these types of circumstances.

Jack Smith's like, I need a little bit of time, Judge Tonya Chutkin, give me a few weeks. During that few weeks, special counsel Jack Smith impaneled a new grand jury in Washington, DC. And he basically reframed with tweets surgically, right? He went in there, very surgical. and then Jack Smith said, all right, here's what we're going to do. We're going to refer to Donald Trump as candidate Trump, as citizen Trump.

We're going to remove an allegation here or there that references Donald Trump's communications with Jeff Clark at the DOJ, but otherwise we're going to make this clear a la the DOJ. But otherwise we're gonna make this clear a la the civil case. Remember that blasting game case that we would talk about here, which basically said that Donald Trump doesn't have civil immunity because he was campaigning.

He was candidate Trump and citizen Trump. I think Jack Smith kind of borrowed that language. Interposed, you know how Donald Trump likes to use the word interpose. Jack Smith interposed it. And then he basically kept all of the charges though, that were in the original indictment, including the 1512 C2 charge,

obstruction of official proceeding, which is notable because the Supreme Court there also said, hey, insurrectionists, we got your back. We got your back insurrectionists. Even though 1512 C2 says that it's a criminal, it's a criminal offense. If you obstruct official proceedings, we're going to interpret subsection A as encompassing subsection B as well.

And what we're going to say is it has to be involving the kind of manipulation, distortion, tearing, ripping, shredding of documents. And so if an insurrectionist didn't have their design aimed at documents, then we're gonna dismiss those cases. But then you had judge federal, I mean, you had a Supreme Court Justice Katanji Brown Jackson. She did kind of give a little bit of a roadmap though

to special counsel Jack Smith, where she was like, but you know, if it's like things like electoral certificates, those are still documents. So you could still potentially bring it. Jack Smith latched onto that. Popak, that's my analysis. How do you think that this new indictment is superseding, which is like an amendment, right? Same judge, same court, same case. One could think of it as like an amendment right same judge same court same case One could think of it as like an amendment, but it supersedes the other new grand jury So Trump got indicted by another grand jury same case same judge break it down popok and popok while you're at it after breaking That down break the streamline scheduling order down as well. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna start with the streamlines scheduling order down as well. Yeah, in fact, I'm gonna start with the streamlines scheduling order in its observation about the superseding indictment

to sort of wrap it all together. You got it all right there. Let me just give my color and my commentary about some of the things I think are really interesting about what you laid out. New grand jury, meaning in a gangster move, which we love, just shows you the sophistication of the tactician and strategist that is Jack Smith. We thought he needed three weeks to kind of figure out

how to take the immunity decision, clear it through the Department of Justice and all of its heads, and then give his position and how to brief it to Judge Chutkin. And that's why we pushed off the status report until Friday for about three weeks. That's not what he was doing. He made a decision that rather than try to salvage the original indictment and kind of make Swiss cheese out of it with redactions and blue pencil, a thing that we call it in the law, where you sort of, well, just leave out paragraphs 13, 26, 29, and 908, and then we'll be fine, Judge. Rather than do that, he went through the methodical process of going back to an existing grand jury

that was already in panel since 2023. It's known as 2023-8 grand jury. And they were doing a lot of things. They were indicting Chan 6 insurrectionists. They were indicting the guy that card jacked Judge Justice Sotomayor, all sorts of things. They were like, hey, let's make a full presentation of all the evidence that we need, totally

under the radar. Mainstream news didn't report on it. We didn't get wind of it, that there was a grand jury up and running and maybe reinditing Donald Trump. And boom, out comes the superseding indictment. It just, you know, like you used to joke a lot on and I loved on the Midas Touch Network about Jack Smith with his Subway sandwich, some sandwich from Subway, and his lunch pail and his thermos going to work. But that's what he did

here. He just went and got a superseding indictment like it was no big deal, and comes out with it and then boom delivers it and drops it on everybody's desks, including yours and mine. But more importantly, Donald Trump's rocks his world changes the weather in his world. Boom, you're shooting at the wrong indictment. Here's a superseding indictment. What I love about the superseding indictment,

and let me read from the status report, joint status report. I mean, it's joint in the sense that two people signed it, but it's certainly, they're not in agreement, and you and I'll talk about it in the next segment. I'll pick up on it, about how to move this case forward on the issues that you presented. But what they said about the new indictment is, and this is in the first bullet point on page two, the government's proposed brief about how

to resolve this issue would provide the defendant and the court with detailed information regarding the content, form, and conducts context of the defendant's conduct, distinguish his private electioneering activity from official action. Hold on to that thought and rebut the presumption of immunity as to any conduct that the court may deem official. In other words, they have taken the in the superseding indictment, they have shot it through with references to make it clear that Donald Trump was acting in a private electioneering campaigner-in-chief capacity, not under his official presidential conduct or capacity, even

stretched to its outer boundaries, nor core constitutional conduct, meaning the things that are actually listed in the Constitution for a president to do under Article 2, and falls instead into this, he's just trying to get elected. The electioneering, reducing this. What we notice in the campaign and with Jack Smith, this is all about shrinking Donald Trump down to size, right? Make him so small, you can just put him in a little bathtub and leave him there. And that's what they're doing. It's like, you're just a two bit electioneer. You're just a small man who's trying to hold on and cling to his job. That is not covered. And what they're saying to the court, talk about it

next, is we've taken the indictment, the new indictment, and we've made it about private conduct, private attorneys, all the co-conspirators, unindicted co-conspirators, Boris Epstein, John Eastman, Ken Chesbrough, Rudy Giuliani, all of them are now private lawyer, private lawyer, private lawyer, private lawyer, right? Because it shows that Donald Trump did two things at one time. He arguably did some presidential things that would have some level of immunity, but he did a lot of things like moonlighting off the clock that were not presidential at all. I don't mean that in the way that Michelle Obama meant it, that he's not very presidential. I meant it ain't presidential conduct and therefore it's not cloaked with any type of immunity, let alone any

kind of presidential immunity. And they're telling the judge, we'll get there next, that they're up to the task to show her why even the things that look on the veneer, on the surface of being presidential official conduct, we're going to rebut that presumption and show you why that should be stripped away of any immunity as well. The biggest takeaway for me, and if you want to reduce the superseding to its essence, it's that it has amplified and beefed up references to the private conduct of Donald Trump through private actors and private co-conspirators to achieve a private, meaning non-immune, prosecutable offense and conduct. That's one.

Two, it has removed Jeff Clark, who was the first while number five in the Department of Justice, who got elevated to acting Attorney General in the last five days by Donald Trump as he weaponized the Department of Justice. Unfortunately, as murky and unclear and unhelpful as most of the Trump versus U.S. immunity decision is by the United States Supreme Court, the only thing they said clearly that we can all figure out is that Jeff Clark needs to be dropped from the indictment, at least this indictment, and Donald Trump's interactions with him dropped from the indictment because they found that, that interaction and called it out by name was absolute immune under their interpretation of

core presidential function. So he had to come out. So they literally just dropped, they kept the numbering system the same on the unindicted co-conspirators. They just removed one guy, Jeff Clark. Now, side note, Jeff Clark ran off to the bar of DC who's trying to take his law license away and said, see, I'm not indicted. I'm not mentioning the indictment anymore. And they're like, you know, everybody else's reaction was like, that doesn't mean your conduct wasn't unethical. Not every unethical conduct that you lose your bar license for is a crime. That's unethical conduct that you lose your bar license for is a crime.

That's not how that worked. They commit crimes, it is unethical. Believe that for another day at another hot take. So that's the boil down. And they kept and they leaned into the special counsel, all four counts, the interference, obstruction with an official proceeding counts, which is really the fake elector certificates as it's framed, and the two counts related for theft of government

services or obstruction of fraud against the United States, or however it's framed. And I love that too, because they're not walking away from it. And you're right, it was both Katanji, Brown, Jackson. But more importantly, in the majority decision, even Trump versus US, as terrible as that decision was as a license to Donald Trump to do bad things. Even on page eight, also I'll never forget of that opinion, it quotes a then judge Sotomayor when she was on the Second Circuit Court of Appeals

before she was elevated to the US Supreme, in her analysis about that provision saying, if you're cranking out fake evidence and fabricating fake documents, that could be obstruction of an official proceeding. And so they lean into that because they know this is going to go through Chutkin first, but then DC Court of Appeals, and then United States Supreme Court. So the ultimate audience for this superseding indictment is the US Supreme Court, but also giving Judge Chutkin the tools and the toolbox that she needs to do her job. Let's talk about her job as I segue into, and then I'll turn it back to you, Ben. I'll do it. We'll reverse it.

So there was this Joint Status Report that had to be filed. And even though it's only 10 pages, one of the shortest documents you and me are going to talk about today, it is powerful in how the two sides see the world. And I'll give you my opinion before I turn it over to you as to which side I think is going to prevail. What Jack Smith is telling the judge is that we've heard from the other side, Trump's lawyers, they want to file all sorts of motions against the superseding indictment. Because my other takeaway for the

superseding indictment is that it is essentially about the same in terms of the allegations. It's still Wisconsin interference and Pennsylvania interference and Michigan interference and the pressure campaign on Mike Pence and use of fake certificates. It's essentially the same. It doesn't mean that Donald Trump doesn't have the right to shoot out the new indictment and try to get it dismissed, he does. But it is essentially the same

and the defendant has always been on notice, which is what's important in due process as to what the crimes are he's being charged with. So in terms of scheduling, Jack Smith says, the other side is going to file all sorts of motions. We'll let them tell you what we think they're going to be, and they're going to be what we thought. They're going to be, Jack Smith is a figment of our imagination.

He's illegitimate. Special counsels don't exist. They're not properly appointed, and they're not properly funded because Trump's taking the position that two major issues have to be decided before this case can even go any further. One, immunity, immunity, immunity, because that's what the Supreme Court said. And two, that guy over there, he's not even a prosecutor. We shouldn't even be here. See what Judge Cannon did in Mar-a-Lago. See the dissent or the concurrence by Clarence Thomas. Okay. She's the only judge in the history of the federal judiciary practice and jurisprudence that's ever

ruled this way and it violates a 1974 Supreme Court decision. But let's try it again. That's one. Jack Smith says, and this is a little unorthodox, but I like it, and I think this is the way the judge is gonna go. He says, judge, let us go first. Even though it's our indictment, and usually a motion to dismiss the indictment on the defense side goes first, let us go first.

We'll give you a brief. We'll tell you why this indictment perfectly matches and comports with the United States Supreme Court decision on immunity in every way shape and form. Then give them a brief, Trump's side of brief, then you'll give us a brief and at the very same time to save time have them brief and file all their motions about everything under the Sun and we can do it all in parallel. One big omnibus kind of hearing maybe a month or two from now we won't tell you when to hold it, you hold it when you're ready, but let's do it all at the same time.

Rather than sequentially, which is what Donald Trump wants, he wants to have him being the only and last word on any issue before the election under their order proposal, their pretrial proposal would be Trump's. Then we'll fully brief immunity. And then if that survives, then we'll fully brief the special prosecutor is real or not. And then if that's still around, then we'll do other motion practice. And maybe at the end of 2025, judge will be done with briefing and then appeals and then 2026. And they're like, no. So here's my view, Ben, I'll kick it back to you. My view is that the judge is gonna say, I sort of agree more with the special prosecutor than with Mr. Trump.

I'm gonna set a compact briefing schedule. It's gonna be like in a couple of weeks. You guys seem to all be ready with your motions, you filed similar motions other places. Okay, I want the prosecutor's brief in two weeks. I want Trump's opposition brief on immunity after that. And to solve this balance issue or this sort of unique issue, I'm gonna even give another brief if I think I need it

to the Trump side if they think they need it. But that'll balance everything out and bring all your motions at the same time. And let's have everything in by October, whatever, And then we'll have a hearing and then I'll give you my ruling. And the loser can go do what they're going to do at the appellate court, sometime in October, November, December, or whatever it's going to be. I don't think, knowing everybody's waiting to appeal, and I mean Trump, she's not going to stretch this thing out to 2025 and beyond, knowing that she's got to, the quicker she makes a ruling,

the quicker we're going to get definitive rulings from the Supreme Court, ultimately in this case. That's my view of it. I think Trump gets rejected on his attempt to delay, delay, delay, and it's going to be closer to what the prosecutor has proposed. Yeah, I think you're going to have a ruling by Judge Tanya Chutkin on the immunity question in 2024. I think we're probably likely to have it October or November. I agree. I think there'll be an expedited briefing schedule

precisely because that's actually what the Supreme Court requested, right? That these issues of absolute immunity, according to the Supreme Court, are so important. They're like threshold requested, right? That these issues of absolute immunity, according to the Supreme Court are so important, they're like threshold issues. Right? So if they're threshold issues, then why in Donald Trump's scheduling order, other than if he's trying to delay, does he not address them as the threshold issue? Right?

If ultimately you believe you're entitled to absolute immunity, Michael Popak, you would be like, just if you were criminally charged and you believe that you have immunity, you would want to run in tomorrow with your get out of jail free card. Immune. Hello. You wouldn't want to go, you know what, let's keep this thing going till 2025. Yeah, I mean, it just shows the games that are being played right there. I think Judge Chutkin sees through it, but hey, a lot there that we just unpacked that happened in this week, late August,

leading up to Labor Day, that's some big legal news right there. There's still a lot more to cover, like Donald Trump trying to derail the sentencing on September 18th by removing the state case where he was already convicted to federal court. One problem, you have to either get the agreement from the district attorney or consent of the judge.

Donald Trump's like, yeah, rules, shmools. Why would I do that? I'm just gonna go to the federal judge who previously rejected my request. Hey, Hellerstein, Judge Hellerstein, what are you gonna do? Judge Hellerstein's like, yeah, this is a defective filing.

You did not put the certificate of compliance with the rules. We'll break it all down. I'm gonna take our first quick break of the show. Wanna remind everybody, patreon.com slash legal AF, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash legal AF. Check it out. It is where you can support the growth of this independent media platform that just hit over three million subscribers. Thanks to all of you. Thank you everybody for making that a reality. This was not possible without you.

And really you hit 3 million subscribers. Let's take our first quick break of the show. Traditional bed sheets, they can harbor more bacteria than a toilet seat. It can lead to acne, allergies, and stuffy noses. And it's just gross. Miracle Maid offers a whole line of self-cleaning antibacterial bedding, such as sheets, pillowcases, and comforters that prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth and require up to three times less laundry. Using silver-infused fabrics inspired by NASA, MiracleMaid sheets are thermoregulating and designed to keep you at the perfect temperature

all night long, no matter the weather. So you get better sleep every night. Miracle sheets are luxuriously comfortable without the high price tag of other luxury brands and feel as nice if not nicer than sheets used by some five-star hotels. Stop sleeping on bacteria. Bacteria can clog your pores causing breakouts and acne. Sleep clean with Miracle.

These sheets are infused with silver that prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth, leaving them to stay cleaner and fresh three times longer than other sheets. No more gross odors. Go to trymiracle.com slash legal AF to try Miracle Made Sheets today. And whether you're buying them for yourself or as a gift for a loved one, if you order today, you can save over 40%. And if you use our promo, Legal AF at checkout, you'll get three free towels and save an extra 20%. Miracle is so confident in their product, it's back with a 30-day money back guarantee. So if you aren't 100% satisfied, you'll get a full refund. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made.

Go to trymiracle.com slash Legal AF and use the code Legal AF to claim your free three piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's trymiracle.com slash Legal AF to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. I know as well as the next guy that sex life is important, but your schedule is busy.

You don't have time to go to a doctor's office to get treated for ED. Through HIMS, you can get a personalized ED treatment without stepping foot outside your door. HIMS is changing men's healthcare by providing access to affordable sexual health treatments all from the comfort of your couch. HIMS provides access to a range of doctor-trusted ED treatments such as chewable hard mints, proven treatments like Viagra and Cialis, or they are generics for up to 95% cheaper. The process is simple and 100% online.

No uncomfortable doctor's visits. Just answer a series of questions on their site, and a medical provider will determine the right treatment option. If prescribed, your medication ships directly to you for free. No insurance is needed. Pay one low price for your treatments, online visits, ongoing shipments, and provider messaging. HIMSS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers.

So if ED is getting you down, it's time you find the option that works for you. Start your free online visit today at HIMSS.com slash LegalAF. That's H-I-M HIMS.com slash Legal AF. That's H-I-M-S dot com slash Legal AF for your personalized ED treatment options. HIMS dot com slash Legal AF. The products mentioned are chewable compounded products, which are not approved by or verified for safety or effectiveness by the FDA. Prescription require an online consultation

with a healthcare provider who will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply, see website for details and important safety information. Subscription required, price varies based on product and subscription plan. Michael Popok with the ED read. Great read Michael Popock. Appreciate it.

Well, I have a baby so it's working. Appreciate all of those pro-democracy sponsors right there. The discount codes are in the description below. Michael Popock, it has been a very busy legal week. I mean, earlier in the week, we learned that Donald Trump was trying to remove the Manhattan district attorney criminal case to federal court. Pretty curious because people are saying remove it to federal court. What?

Didn't he try that already? Wasn't he convicted of 34 separate felony counts? Isn't his sentencing scheduled for September 18th? Yes, all of that is true. So what is Donald Trump trying to do? He's trying to throw a Hail Mary and basically trying to say, look, the Supreme Court made this absolute immunity ruling and therefore that addresses federal issues that just arose.

This is Trump's argument. So as a result, we have to take this state court prosecution where I was convicted on 34 felony counts for falsifying business records. And because of the Supreme Court, federal Supreme Court, we have to then bring it into the federal system. Just a reminder, there's a federal system, there is a state system. Where there are state crimes, it goes in state court. Where there are federal crimes or a federal statute, it goes in federal court. There's

something in the Constitution called the Supremacy Clause where federal is supreme to state if there is a conflict. So if there's a federal law that covers the same territory or supersedes the state law, there are circumstances where under the rules, a criminal case could be removed to federal court. Now you'll recall when the indictment was first brought against Donald Trump, a long time, fairly long time ago, relatively long time ago,

by the Manhattan district attorney. When that indictment dropped, Donald Trump tried to bring it to federal court before it got assigned to Judge Hellerstein. There was, remember there was an evidentiary kind of hearing that was held. Trump lost. Judge Hellerstein also noted that Donald Trump waived a lot of kind of key issues and Judge Hellerstein sent it back to state court where the criminal proceedings took place and Donald Trump was convicted. So based on where the case is procedurally, the case is over in the sense, right? Other than sentencing, so it's not totally over, but there was a conviction, we're at sentencing. So because of that, for you to try to move it to federal court, because of the fact

that all of these proceedings took place, there is very specific law at the federal level that says you need to follow certain rules. You have to either get permission from the court, in other words you have to get what's called leave, or you have to get consent from the district attorney. You know you have to then first file a motion to request the leave of the court to remove it to federal court. And you need to, once you remove it, meaning literally when I say remove it, I mean you make a filing in the federal court transferring the whole file from state to federal, you

have to include a certificate that either says the district attorney agreed or the court agreed. And if that doesn't exist, it gets rejected. And so because the certificate was not included, the way Judge Hellerstein, the federal judge, rejected the removal is kind of the way a judge would reject a filing in federal court if you like just filed the wrong form.

So I can tell you as previously practicing law and Michael Popat currently practices law, sometimes you'll make a mistake with the filing. You'll file form AO88 instead of AO87 and you screw up. It's a pretty embarrassing thing when that happens, but you deal with it, but it happens from time to time. You don't want it to happen a lot because it's not a good look if that happens,

but it'll be rejected by like the court clerk and it'll say, defective filing, you filed the wrong form. So the way Judge Hellerstein dealt with this was that, you filed no certificate, therefore I'm rejecting it. Please refile with certificate as though you missed a document. Now, Judge Hellerstein knows that document doesn't exist. So he did it in a way also that was kind of a way

to humiliate Trump and Trump's lawyers by saying, okay, just file the document and I'll take a look at this, knowing that that doesn't exist. Then Judge Hellerstein doesn't even have to even look at it or address it. Now, do I think that Donald Trump's lawyers are going to refile? I do, but they're going to have to either get consent of the court, which can be rejected at this stage, or consent of the DA. But all that happened very, very quickly. Popak, let me turn it over to you.

Yeah, yeah, let me tell you why it's so important. Because there is a unique quality to a party filing a notice of removal. It is a special power that is so powerful that it has to be handled appropriately, wisely, and there has to be a gatekeeping function for the federal judge to make sure the power of a removal A notice of removal is that if it's done timely and this one was not done timely

I'm going to talk about that next in reference to the rule 1455 of the statutes which deals with removal if it's not done if it's done timely a removal notice in and of itself divests jurisdiction and takes the power away from the state court judge at the moment the notice of removal is filed, unless and until the federal judge having seen the notice of removal, either with a hearing or on the papers or on reviewing the papers him or herself, decides that the notice of removal is invalid or rejects it and then remands it back. Even if, so even for a nanosecond, the Judge Mershon, who's waiting patiently

to both issue a ruling about immunity and how immunity, if at all, applies to any aspect of an entry or any aspect of the 34 felony count conviction of Donald Trump, operative word is trial happened, arraignment happened, trial happened, conviction happened. So we're post conviction, pre-sentencing period. Pretty rare error to be breathing to ask for removal to federal court at this late stage. It's really untimely unless you ask permission first. Pretty please permission from the federal judge, Judge Hellerstein, about removal, which they didn't do.

So the reason this has to be so carefully guarded, it's like a superpower, it's like kryptonite that's locked in a box, is because it divests the state court judge of jurisdiction at the moment the notice, if it's proper and regular, is filed. So here, you don't get that benefit. And because the rule, and we can put it up here in a minute, the Rule 1455 says as follows. And you might be saying, well, how do you even address this issue?

It says that first of all, that a defendant, this is under B1, a notice of removal of a criminal prosecution shall mandatory be filed not later than 30 days after the arraignment in the state court or at any time before trial. Well, Trump's F-ed under that because he got arraigned a long time ago. We on the Midas Touch Network did a lot of coverage about his arraignment and he got – forget about the trial starting. The trial started, finished, and he got convicted. So we are beyond timely removal under B1.

So then what do you do then? Popak, does that mean he's out of time? Well, that rule goes on to say, except that for good cause shown, the United States District Court, meaning Judge Hellerstein, may, that means permissive, discretionary, enter an order granting the defendant or defendants leave to file the notice at a later time. So what does Judge Hellerstein slash the clerk saying in this entry that we posted and you and Harry covered in one of your hot takes? The clerk slash judge is saying you needed to file a motion for leave to file your notice of removal because you're so late and you got to show good

cause and only if I, Judge Hellerstein, grant you permission based on what you tell me is the good cause and I believe it. I don't even need to hear from the other side. I'll just look at your papers. I may or may not let you file the notice of removal but because you did it, I am bouncing what you filed. Jurisdiction has not been divested out of Judge Mershon, who still sits over the case. Everything is undisturbed over there. And I may never divest jurisdiction or allow

you to divest jurisdiction of the state court judge. Let me look, and I'll let you know if I'm going to let you file a notice of removal. And that is the gatekeeping that we just watched so effectively and quickly happen. I did a hot take in the morning about the filing and by like the afternoon, you know, Emil Bove got a dunce cap put on him by the clerk slash judge about it. And what they're doing is not just saying, as you said, it happens. I've had it happen recently in one of my cases in federal court.

My staff just can't figure out how to file something related to a sealed document and it kept getting kicked until they figured out the right button to push. That's different. Here it's, you need to ask my permission. And I'm not even gonna allow you to argue that for a nanosecond. Judge Mershon in the state court

doesn't have jurisdiction over this case. Let me take a look at your paper. So they're going to refile this. Even though the rule doesn't say get the consent of the DA, I guess what the judge is saying is, I guess I'll give you the good cause and let you file if you can somehow convince Alvin Bragg that at the post-conviction pre-sentencing stage this thing should be dragged over to federal court so that you can take some sort of appeal through the, this is what they're trying to do, they're trying to jump the tracks and get over to the federal system so they can have an easy path and line of sight to the federal courts and federal courts of appeal like the Second Circuit Court of Appeal,

and then over to the Supreme Court. It's a lot easier than what they needed to do because everything, and you did it too with Harry, and I did it in my hot take, everything in the papers, Emile Bové for Donald Trump filed, everything is just an appellate issue for them to argue once Judge Murchon is given the benefit of the doubt about his

immunity decision. The judge has not issued his immunity decision yet. So you can't appeal it and you can't appeal it to a supra appellate judge in the form of a federal judge sitting in removal. So everything in there is we don't like the jury instructions. We don't like the way the evidence was presented. We don't like some of the things that may have been immunity that was presented to the jury, we don't like some things that happened at the grand jury, we don't like the judge because he's got a daughter, you know, stupid stuff. And all of that stuff is grounds for appeal if you think you got it to the state court appellate.

You and I are spending a lot of time methodically talking about the difference for our audience between state and federal practice, because frankly, you don't learn that in, unless you go to law school in America, you don't really learn that at all. So that's, and it's important to under, one of the takeaways from our patreon.com slash, Legal AF stuff is that people understand our procedure

and understand the differences between the state and federal system and why they exist and how they interplay. And that's what we're watching here, the intersection of those two systems. So go take your state appeal. That's fine, but you gotta wait till the 16th when the judge rules probably against you.

And then when the sentence happens, you can go argue about the sentence too. And the judge, Mershon, the reality is he'll stay his case. We are pretty confident while you appeal. So go do that. And get your brief ready now. Because the brief that Mershon is, you know, you should have that typed up already with like, you just probably need a half a day to customize it once you see the actual order. And that should

all be done in the state court system at the First Department Appellate Division, which is the place in Manhattan you go for your first level appeal. And if you don't like the answer to that, you know, you're on the losing end of that Trump, then go to the Court of Appeals, the highest court in New York. And that's it. That's sort of the end of the road. But this attempt, this transparent attempt to try to get Murchon off the case even for a minute before the prosecution, hope that Hellerstein holds a hearing. Here's my prediction. Hellerstein doesn't hold a hearing at all. Emile Beauvais tries to refashion

what he just filed as a motion for leave to file a notice of removal out of time, untimely. The judge looks at it and like within a very short time, no more hearings, no more evidentiary hearings like he did back in May, June, and July of last year. Done. Denied. You don't get to file your notice of removal. You sit tight and sit still in state court. That's what I think is going to happen. And it's going to go really quickly after Labor Day. I think you and I are going to be reporting during next week about Hellerstein saying, see you. Bye. You're not doing that. And Judge Mershon, have a nice day in your immunity decision and on your sentencing.

Show me the money. Show me the money. Show me the money. That's what Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss are saying to Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani, I guess, thinks what? That after this $150 million judgment was entered against him, that Freeman and Moss are not going to collect on it,

that they're just gonna be like, they're gonna frame it on their window or their wall and be like, look what I got, $150 million judgment. No, they're going for Giuliani's assets and he should be very, very worried. We'll tell you why after our last quick break of the show. Have you heard that the flavored air category is quickly becoming the leading alternative

to vaping and smoking? It's a whole new movement towards better habits, led by the sponsor of today's video, Fume. Fume is an award-winning flavored air device, and flavored air isn't like vaping. If vapor was compared to sticky soda, Fume cores are closer to herbal teas. Fume has lots of delicious flavors to choose from

like crisp mint and orange vanilla. With flavored air, you can satisfy your oral fixation through a passive diffusion system that utilizes no electronics, vapor or combustion. Instead, fume draws flavor to your mouth. Fume fills the void ditching a bad habit can leave. There's no vapor and you can use it anywhere. There's no nicotine and it's not addictive.

The non-toxic flavors are a guilt-free alternative. Fume doesn't use any batteries so you'll never need to charge it. The design is super sleek, it looks awesome, and you can truly feel the weighted, high quality design. I mean, one of the fun things about fume is that it's made to fidget with and calms anxiety with magnets snaps and clicks. Fume continuously invests in third-party studies to ensure the safety of their products. My favorite Fume flavor is the orange vanilla. It's just as delicious as it sounds and look if you're trying to

kick your bad habit, I couldn't recommend Fume enough. Fume has served over 300,000 customers and you can be the next success story. For a limited time, use my code LEGALAF to get a free gift with your journey pack. Head to tryfume.com. That's T-R-Y-F-U-M.com and use code LEGALAF

or scan the QR code on the screen to get a free gift with your order today. Feels like everything has a subscription these days. Food, streaming, phones, even dog food. Rocket Money has helped me get a hold of what's coming out of my bank account in one place. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that empowers you to save more,

spend less, and take control of your financial life. With Rocket Money, you can see all of your checking, savings, credit cards, and investments in one convenient place, allowing you to understand your spending trends. Rocket Money can calculate your monthly spending allowance and alert you when you're close to going over budget so you can save more and spend less. It helped me realize I needed to cut back on food delivery. Whether your goal is to pay off your credit card debt, set aside money for a house, or simply save your money, RocketMoney makes it easy.

RocketMoney will even try to negotiate lower bills for you, sometimes by up to 20%. Saving money on a cell phone or cable bill and not having to deal with customer service yourself, that's a dream come true. Rocket Money has over 5 million happy members and has saved its users over $1 billion across all of the app's features. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Get Rocket Money today at rocketmoney.com slash legal AF. That's rocketmoney.com slash legal AF. Once again, rocketmoney.com slash legal AF.

Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored advice to improve your nutrition, workouts, sleep, and even stress management. All you have to do is breathe into your Lumen first thing in the morning, and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs. Then lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements.

You could also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals, so you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time. And Lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game. Because your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does.

Optimal metabolic health translates to a bunch of benefits, including easier weight management, improved energy levels, better fitness results, better sleep, et cetera. It can also track your cycle and adjust your recommendations to keep your metabolism healthy through hormonal shifts so you can keep up your energy and stave off cravings.

So if you wanna take the next step in improving your health, go to lumen.me slash LegalAF to get 15% off your lumen. That's L-U-M-E-N dot M-E slash legal AF for 15% off your purchase. Thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode. Thank you to all of those incredible sponsors. The discount codes are in the description below. I'm amped up, Michael Popakis. There's a lot of legal news and when we can geek out together over legal news and

legal news that is, I think, helpful for our democracy, accountability, as you called it earlier, the legal system, putting the screws into, you know, Donald Trump. I mean, by and large, the legal system has been stress tested to its like maximum and it's been able to hold. Don't get me wrong. You've got your judge cannons and her ilk out there who were Trump appointees, but overall the legal system has really been a, a final safeguard. Um, you know, uh, until, you know, that is these cases get in front of the

Supreme court and you have this absolute immunity ruling, then you've got the prosecutors kind of playing this cat and mouse game, I guess, with your right wing Supreme Court. I guess this is a long way of saying that the stress test that is our legal system, I think, has reached its maximum level of stress. And with that Supreme Court ruling on absolute immunity with Supreme Court overturning Roe with that Supreme Court ruling on absolute immunity with Supreme Court overturning

Roe with the Supreme Court's recent rulings, you know, if a pro-democracy president like vice president Kamala Harris is elected and there's going to be this opportunity to fill the Supreme Court with pro-democracy judges in the model of a Katanji Brown Jackson, we're going to be good. But if we still have this right-wing Supreme court that expands its power, it's going to be, it's going to be a very dystopian vision. And that's what's at stake right now. And that's where this intersection of law and politics, you know, I think is so important to, so important to discuss and, you know, I think is, it's so important to, um, so important to discuss and, you know, being law and order means, um, you know, following the rules, regulations of, of, of the law.

And Donald Trump and these magas have been taking over the Republican party. Oh, and ripping it away from kind of classic Republicans have shown that they're, they disdain the law and every, in every aspect of it, but I'll stop preaching, um, right now, and I'll start talking about Giuliani, someone who continues not just to evade the law, but evade collection of the judgment against him. And Michael Popock, you're pretty familiar with these types of proceedings based on kind of your practice area as well.

After a lawyer gets a judgment, the judgment is a piece of paper. The judgment itself is an IOU, if you will, that can be enforced with the power of the law. So you have to take your paper, your judgment, then you have to enforce it. And then because of our system of federalism, you have to enforce it in different states. And there's comity, not comedy, comity between the states and enforcing a judgment.

But if someone's not paying their judgment and they have assets in a certain state, you have to take your judgment from Georgia or in this case, Washington DC, where Ruby Freeman and Shama Sue Donald Trump. Remember, this case was in front of federal judge Beryl Howell. You take that judgment, you go to a New York court, you say, hey, New York court, here's our judgment. Here are the assets in this case of Giuliani. Literally order the police, the sheriffs to seize it, to take it. Take the bank accounts, take them by force if the person's not going to turn them over and transfer them over here. Now in normal course people often will respect the judgments that are that are issued or come up with resolutions or or plans you know but not with Rudy Giuliani I think his plan is going to be to try to do his best to

avoid collections until he dies frankly and I think that's how he sees the next few years playing out and you know he'll he'll sleep at Mar-a-Lago or wherever. And that's his game plan right now. A very sad ending to a once proud career in New York that was destroyed by MAGA. Take it away, Michael Popak. Yeah, I think that was a good start to that. I just want to make one comment for the sub preaching. It's just, you said something

that triggered me in a good way. We just had Judge Ludwig, who's has been finding the Midas Touch audience to be really rewarding for him to address in a way that he's not able to on corporate media. And he came out with an exclusive interview for us a day or so ago, and he put it starkly and bluntly, but hopefully, he said, there's nothing else at stake on November 5th, nothing, but the battle for our constitutional republic, our democracy and rule of law. And there's only one party that is, that can be considered the guardian of that.

And that is the party that he's not a part of, the Democratic Party and Kamala Harris and endorsing Kamala Harris. He made it that simple. He goes, I don't care what, I'm paraphrasing Judge Wudicke. I don't care what your policy differences are with her. I don't care what you think about domestic

and foreign policy or on any of the major issues. It comes down to whether we're gonna have a constitutional republic and a person who occupies the office It respects the rule of law and the outcome of elections or not And there's only one party that can do that and that is and here's where he you know, here's where he's gonna You know veered off in a world that a lot of his Colleagues and brethren didn't expect them to do And I'm endorsing for the first time in my career as a Republican, as a Federalist, as a Conservative, but first of all, as a Patriot.

As a Patriot and a person of faith, I'm endorsing the Democratic Party. That was earth shattering. And the fact that he did that with us, so rewarding and so awe-inspiring for what you and your brothers felt we contributed to here to get over our three million. Now we gotta go to the criminal justice system,

putting the screws to people that deserve it. Rudy Giuliani, I don't know, I don't even know. To talk about him, to talk about him in his prior life is like talking about two different people. So I'm not gonna talk about him in his prior life. In his current life, he's been disbarred. He lost his law license in two different places, all the places that matter, New York and DC. He flouted and was in contempt of court at least 10 times in the case that's at the core of what you and I are about to talk about, which is Ruby

Freeman and Shay Moss, the mother-daughter team, who all they were doing was their civic duty for almost no pay in counting votes in Fulton County in an auditorium in 2020 to start to contribute to the certification of the election. That's all they were doing. They were just vote counting. But in the hands of MAGA, in the hands of Giuliani and Bannon and Trump, they were fraudsters who were stuffing the ballot box, literally, who were burning Trump ballots and overvoting Biden ballots when they were doing nothing of the sort. And they continued to do it even in the face of counter evidence and investigations and analysis that showed that they were wrong. Led by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the Georgia Secretary of State, and everybody else that mattered.

And it didn't matter to them. And they continued to dox, violently attack, racist attack, Ruby Freeman and Seamus, which led to them having to run for their lives, literally, and go into police protection because of the amount of doxing and harassing that they were subject to as they led this

disinformation campaign to try to have Donald Trump cling to power, which is at the heart of the DC election interference case that you and I spent a lot of time about at the top of the show. That's Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss. Because Rudy Giuliani in the last three years has just completely blown off any of his responsibilities in any of his cases. He's been found in contempt dozens of times. He lost his New York law license because he failed to participate in the New York proceedings and respond to any of the inquiries by his regulator. That's the main reason. He got a judgment against him for what is now $146 million running with interest,

which is probably up to about 175 million, mainly because he refused to comply with court orders by Judge Barrell Howell of the DC court, federal court, in his, in the defamation case brought by Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. And so he got, after 10 violations, he got a contempt, he got a default judgment against them for liability. And then they just had a jury trial in which he acted out again and also flouted the rules of the court and insulted the jury in real time. And then they hit him with a giant punitive damage award, which was a precursor and basically, I think,

a license to the jury against Donald Trump just after that in the second E. Jean Carroll case to nail him with a hundred million dollar judgment. So that's how that worked. Now as you said that's a piece of paper. You have to enforce it. You have to go collect your judgment and so right at the moment almost the very moment when that judgment what could be used by by Ruby Freeman and Seamus to collect against Rudy Giuliani and under the creditors rights laws that I'm familiar with in almost all the states, there's a bunch of things

you can do when you're a judgment creditor. That you're given major priority over the debtor's assets if he hasn't paid you, except for the IRS, except for the government and taxes, you're next in line until you're paid up. And so, but you can't just go use self-help like, oh, break into Rudy Giuliani's apartment and steal everything or take everything.

Can't do that. You can't like padlock the door yourself, but you can use the legal system to do that. So you have to go first, first things first. You have to register or file your judgment, record your judgment against the debtor wherever you think the debtor wherever you think the debtor has property. Well, that's easy. Rudy Giuliani has an apartment on the upper

east side of New York on 66th Street that's worth about six million and he's got a condo near Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach in Florida that's worth about four million. So you record it in Palm Beach County and you record the judgment in New York, which is what they did. What did the very next day, what did Rudy Giuliani do? He ran to bankruptcy court, that's federal. He ran to bankruptcy court, he got assigned to Judge Lane, Sean Lane, who's really a no-nonsense judge,

although he put up with about six months of nonsense by Rudy Giuliani. And Rudy Giuliani said, I'm gonna discharge all of this in bankruptcy. I'm gonna wipe out and I'm not gonna pay them. And if I pay them anything, it'll come out of my assets, but I'll get around to selling them and I'll give them cents on the dollar

and please help me judge. And the judge said, let me take a look at your papers. Okay, you need to comply with this, this, this, this order and turn over this document and this information in this document. And what did Rudy Giuliani do? Same thing he always does. He refused to turn over any information. He turned over

15 pages of information. He said he couldn't find an accountant to work with him or a bookkeeper. He couldn't fill out any of his forms and the judge says enough is enough. And in July or into August the judge dismissed the bankruptcy, Judge Lane, and said you don't get the benefit of bankruptcy protection. That's a privilege. You don't get it. I I find bad faith. Right? I find bad faith filing. People can go for attorney's fees now. And boom, you're gone. Now, during the course of that, Rudy Giuliani identified three major assets of his. And one of them I love. One of them will make Donald Trump pay money

to Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss, which I love. The poetic justice of that I just love. Let's talk about the three of them, bro. One, the apartment in New York. Two, it's actually four things. Two, the apartment, the condo in Florida. Three, the shirt off his back. I mean, his watches, his old Rolex, his old Mercedes

that's like from 1980, whatever it is he has. You know, his Yankee ring for when he was mayor, his picture of Joe DiMaggio, I don't know, whatever he's got, that whole list. That's called stuff, personal items. And the third thing is Rudy Giuliani claims that he's owed $2 million by Donald Trump for unpaid legal fees. That's interesting. So that's an account receivable. That's a collateral. That's an asset. And so now they have filed,

because the thing just got dismissed, they recorded their judgment. The lawyers for Ruby Freeman and Seamus recorded their judgment in the federal court in the Southern District of New York, and they made a new filing. And they got a new judge. I happen to know this judge, everybody in New York knows this judge, they got Lewis Lyman. Lewis Lyman not only is a phenomenal federal judge, a democratic president appointed, but he's the son of an amazing defense lawyer who died untimely back in the 90s named Lewis Lyman.

Lewis Lyman was famous, not infamous, was famous as the lawyer's lawyer. He was the special prosecutor, special counsel for the Senate committee that was investigating Iran-Contra during the Reagan administration. But he also in his private life, in his private practice as a white-collar criminal defense lawyer, he famously represented everything from fugitives to fraudsters to stock swindlers and all of that, but he did it just in a very elegant way and he was known as the lawyer's lawyer. That's Arthur Lyman and this is his son. So they file it with Lewis Lyman, who's no

nonsense, and now they've told the judge, judge, we are a judgment creditor of over 146 million. This guy over here, Rudy Giuliani, doesn't have anywhere bankruptcy protection. So now we want to enforce our creditors rights and you judge, even though you're a federal judge, this is our continuing theme here on the show today, you get to act like a state court judge in New York

because we're here under a certain type of jurisdiction called diversity jurisdiction, meaning I'm not here under a federal statute judge. I'm here because I live in one state, Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss live in, in Maryland or Virginia or DC and Rudy Giuliani lives in New York or Florida. And two people of different states, when the amount of controversy is over $75,000 get to run the federal court under diversity jurisdiction. And then judge, you have to be,

you have to act like you're a New York judge and you need to apply New York law. So we have a, we have a Bible of civil practice in New York that's very unique. It does not mirror the rules of federal civil procedure. It's called the CPLR, right? The civil practice law and rules. And you can't even memorize them.'re so complicated to so many volumes but you go to the chapter on creditors rights and it lays out all the things you can do when you got a judgment you have been paid and Two in particular and are in play right now You can ask for a judge this case judge Lyman to issue a turnover order

Which is exactly what it sounds like turn over all of your assets within a date certain to the defendant. Don't make them go have a sheriff sale. Don't make them go padlock. Don't make them go, you know, repo man your car. Just turn it over. And then secondly, if he doesn't do that, judge, and we want everything. We want the watches. We want the Joe DiMaggio print. We want the Mercedes and we want the deeds to the two houses. And if they don't do that, Judge, he can't be trusted. Install a receiver into the mix. A receiver is another type of court officer that sits over assets and makes sure they're not squandered

and that the person does the right thing with them. Sort of like the financial monitor that's sitting over all things Donald Trump for the last two years, that's being supervised by a state court judge. It's just another type of thing. We call it a trustee or a receiver, sometimes a monitor. It's all sort of the same thing.

They all have similar powers. And they're asking the judge, judge, we want the turnover order. And if he doesn't do it, then we want a receiver appointed by you that reports to you, that takes possession of all these assets, that sells those those pieces of property, or turns over their deeds, that collects the two million dollars against Donald Trump,

and turns it all over to Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss. And one last thing. Sure, Giuliani will be able to oppose this if he finds a lawyer willing to do it. He's notorious, he's notorious in not paying his bills and having lawyers, you know, just a trail of tears of lawyers that he hasn't paid, including one of his better friends, Robert Costello, who wanted his 15 minutes of fame in the Donald Trump case to testify against Michael Cohen But he also got screwed by Giuliani and his owed money So if he finds a lawyer they can file an opposition paper There'll be some sort of evidentiary hearing this may go relatively quickly and then the judge I think is gonna say alright

There's no defense here You have no defense the fact that you don't have money or you don't have enough to pay the 146 Million is not a defense. You have seven days to turn it all over. I think this is going to happen relatively quickly, Ben. September, October, and then if you don't do that, I am at your expense going to be sticking a receiver on top of this to report to me. To answer the last question in the chat, what if he doesn't have enough to pay the whole $146, now probably $160 with interest? They continue to go after assets and income of his until every last drop, every last dollar with

interest is paid to them. So let's say all this happens, what we just described in this segment, and it only brings in, I'm making this stuff up now, $ million. Okay, well, he's, he's about 150 million short. Now what? Well, the guy works. The guy makes income on his podcast, he brings in revenue from books, he wrote a book that's going to be published, apparently about the Biden crime family, some sort of fiction book that somebody's publishing, well, they get to go garnish those wages. And that's the next order they'll seek.

And they'll have Rudy Giuliani work for the rest of his life is natural born days to pay off Freeman and Moss. And then when there's money left over after he finally goes, they're going to they're going to stick it against the estate of Rudy Giuliani. And they're going to follow him right into the grave. He belongs. You know, the thing that you would normally do if you were representing someone like a Rudy Giuliani though, is you would

try to cut a deal, right? You would be transparent about your assets. And you would say, look, here's what I've got. Here's what I don't have. I plan on writing these books. Here's what I'm going to need to live for the next X amount of years. You may end up collecting nothing. So why don't we have a strategy together and structure a deal so that Freeman and Moss can collect certain things based on books or whatever. And you can give them the assurance that there's some liquidity, and whether that is, look, for the Giuliani estate and all of these things, they're gonna get X amount

of dollars in perpetuity, whatever it is. But you try to cut some deal, but that's not what Giuliani's gonna do, right? Giuliani's gonna make them go around and rip it and tear it away from him, which they're going to do. And we'll cover it every step of the way here on Legal AF and the Midas Touch Network. So a big week, big week in legal news, big week for the Midas Mighty Legal AF community.

I remember very vividly when we had about 20 to 35 followers and I got a call from Michael Popok while I was quarantined and Michael Popok said when we hit 35 people 35 he said Ben I love what you're doing I want to help out what you've got going there is a rocket ship and I remember thinking to myself a a rocket ship? Okay. And the exact words that Michael Popock used. And I said, all right, if you wanna join this rocket ship of 35 followers, why don't we do a show together where you and I can just talk about legal cases

while we're quarantined at our homes and apartments or wherever we were then. And so in front of a white wall and in front of wherever you were, we would just talk about legal cases and it went from 25 to 35 to 35,000 to 350,000 to a million to 2 million to 3 million. And it's because of all of you,

Legal AFers, Midas Mighty, it's this community that craves, that craves the truth, that craves data, that craves detailed analysis. And we're gonna keep providing that for you here on Legal AF and the Midas Touch Network. Reminder, patreon.com slash Legal AF will be announcing soon

when we're gonna have our next partner and associate meeting. Having, some of you may know me and my wife are having a baby soon. And so it's been a lot of, it's been busy and you know, Michael Popak just had a baby. So it's been busy. It's been Midas baby busy right now here at Legal AF.

So we're doing, there it is. We're doing our best right there. We actually sound different. We look different, we sound different, but go back if you wanna go and check out, if you wanna go check out some of those old podcasts, you'll be like, well, what is that? But that was the origin story right there.

Thank you everybody so much. We appreciate you. We love you. We're so grateful for you. And we'll see you next time on Legal AF. Shout out to the AFers. Shout out to the Midas.