Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Sandy Hook Trial Mom SPEAKS to LAF after TAKING on Alex Jones in COURT and WINNING

Episode Date: August 11, 2022

After discussing a blockbuster step towards prosecuting Trump Monday when the DOJ executed search warrants at Mar-a-Lago, Karen Friedman Agnifilo is joined by special guest Scarlett Lewis the mom who tragically lost her son Jessie in the Sandy Hook massacre almost 10 years ago and last week heroically stood up to Right wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones in court. She won a $49 million verdict and was able to confront him in court. KFA and Scarlett are also joined by actress, director, and philanthropist Elisabeth Rohm who is helping Ms. Lewis spread her message of nurturing, healing, and love. Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 The Tony Michaels Podcast: https://pod.link/1561049560 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the midweek edition of Legal AF. I'm thrilled to be here today. I'm by myself. I'm not with either of my co-hosts, not with Ben Myceles or with Michael Popak who's on vacation, but I am going to be joined by two incredible, incredible special guests today. incredible special guest today. Scarlett Lewis, who is the fierce mom who have faced down Alex Jones last week after losing her beautiful six-year-old son, Jesse in the Sandy Hook massacre. And I'm also joined by the woman

who brought us together today, Elizabeth Rome, who is, she's just this amazing woman who's an actor and a director and a philanthropist. And she's done incredible work and she's working with Scarlett to bring together this message of love and healing and nurturing. And they're just two of the most fascinating women I've ever met. And I have to first start before we go into talking to these amazing women about the fact

that the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago yesterday, which I can't believe this finally happened. So I just want to mention it and talk a little bit about what it is and what it means. As we know from the reporting, there are at least three grand juries that are sitting and hearing evidence about the former president. One has to do with the January 6th insurrection.

Another has to do with Georgia and the Fannie Willis matter that she's also investigating about fine, the 11,780 votes. And the third has to do with presidential records act and classified documents that we've heard Trump took boxes of documents that he's not supposed to take. Some of them are classified to Mar-a-Lago and out of the White House.

The reporting is that the latter, the presidential records act and the Classified Documents investigation, that that's what the Serpina, I'm sorry, the search warrant, excuse me, was related to at Mar-a-Lago yesterday. And so that's the case that seems to be heating up and the most ripe. It's very interesting when I saw that because, you know, the Department of Justice had an option here. Do we subpoena the documents from the former president or do we do a search warrant and a search warrant is much more aggressive. What you're basically saying is I don't trust you to turn over the documents. I don't trust you that you won't destroy the documents. And to get a search warrant, it's not just a piece of paper

that you print down on the computer. You have to actually have probable cause that a crime occurred and that there's evidence of that crime that you believe that evidence will be found in the particular location. You have to describe the crime, you have to describe the evidence, you have to describe the location with particularity. You have to go before a judge and you have to swear the evidence, you have to describe the location with particularity.

You have to go before a judge, and you have to swear in front of this judge that you have this probable cause for this information. And the judge has to rule on this document and give you the search parameters. And then once you have the warrant, you can execute the warrant, and that's what they did here.

And all I could think about was the coordination between federal agencies that had to occur, because this was the FBI that executed the search warrant. They had to coordinate with the Secret Service who guard Mar-a-Lago in the former president. And, you know, go in there and Trump claims that it was under siege and there was a raid, and they went into his safe, and all these other inflammatory, the Southern inflammatory language that is used to delegitimize law enforcement frankly. But here we are.

We have FBI director Chris Ray, who was appointed by Trump, is leading this investigation. And I'm sure Merrick Garland also is the saw and approved of this. And, you know, like sort of of let's see where this goes you know. Let's see whether whether they bring charges against Trump. I do think this is a major escalation and I do do think that if they weren't at least seriously

considering bringing charges against him they would not have escalated to this point. One thing I do think is interesting is they are really leaning into the fact that he may have taken classified documents, which obviously can put our national security and jeopardy, et cetera. But the thing that I found sort of interesting was the president can declassify documents. And we know that he declassified lots and lots of documents. So it was just be sort of interesting to see that interplay about what he declassified, what he didn't, what he took, what he didn't, and just what happens when this investigation continues and proceeds.

So that's all I wanted to just mention about Trump. I think this is an astonishing, just monumental, monumental event that has taken place and a major, major move forward for the Department of Justice. I'd like to now turn to the main event of today and the reason why I'm here with my guests who I'm just absolutely feel so honored that Scarlet Lewis and Elizabeth Rome have agreed to join Legal AF and tell their story today. Scarlet is one of the most extraordinary women I've ever encountered. I've been doing research on her in preparation for today. And I cried, I smiled, I felt just tears of joy and sadness in her story.

Everybody who watches the show knows that I was a prosecutor for many, many years at the Manhattan DA's office. And I unfortunately spent my career, I say unfortunately, but fortunately, dealing with violent crime, homicide, sexual assaults, that sort of thing, and I've met with countless survivors of violent crime and family members who are survivors of horrific violence. And it's always incredible to see how people react to these tragedies.

And Scarlett is just one of the strongest women I've ever I've ever encountered. Just what she endured in December 14, 2012. She and her beautiful son, J.T., who is the brother of Jesse Lewis, lost at her and his father, lost little six-year-old Jesse Lewis on that day in Newton, Connecticut, at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, where 20 children and six adults were viciously and savagely murdered by Adam Lanza. And the story, this was over nine years ago, and at the time that it happened, the whole world grieved alongside of you, Scarlet, but just seeing what you've done in the time since that happened. And what you are doing to just

truly try and change the world is beyond incredible. And I want to talk about your work. And that's why Elizabeth Rome is here too. Elizabeth is, you might recognize her because she's an award-winning just very acclaimed actress for television and film. Some of my favorite television shows, Law and Order and American Hustle. And, you know, I was, so I'm sure you all recognize her. But she's also a director and a philanthropist and an author and she's done all incredible work. And Elizabeth and Scarlet are working on a project together that I'm gonna let them talk about.

And, but it's one of them, as I said, one of the more inspiring things I've ever encountered. But before we talk about this incredible work that you're doing, Scarlet, I hope you don't mind. Forthful, welcome to Legal AF. It's so great to have you here. But I just got to talk to you about what happened last week. It's just incredible. Scarlet is the brave warrior who faced Alex Jones in

court last week. So tell us about that experience and what that was like. experience and what that was like. Well, thanks so much for having us, Karen. It's so nice to meet you. I'm, I'm looking at the network that you're posting this podcast on. It's might as touch because truth is golden. And that was definitely a theme in the Alex Jones trial over the last two weeks a theme in the Alex Jones trial over the last two weeks about truth. He tried to spin that the trial was about the first amendment, freedom of speech, but it actually wasn't about that at all. and not being able to perpetrate a falsehood that intentionally damages someone and someone's reputation.

And so I was, I know that Jesse's dad had been talking for years about the moment that he was gonna face Alex Jones and the courage that that was going to take. And it turned out that Alex was not in court when Neil testified. However, he came in when I testified. And so I found myself facing Alex Jones literally face to face looking at him at the sitting at the defendants table up on the witness stand. And I will tell you that the two weeks was absolutely grueling. It was just a very difficult experience from day one, you know, just trying to find my grounding in what was actually happening. Are we really here in a courtroom bringing an adult man to justice who has perpetrated lies for

almost 10 years that Sandy Hook never happened, that it was a false flag, that I am a crisis actress, perhaps hired by our government to take away people's guns, that I am deep state, that Jesse never existed, that he was seen in different places, including in another tragedy in a different country. I mean, all of these crazy, really conspiracy theories. And, you know, I'm all of these crazy, really conspiracy theories. And, you know, I'm all about questioning things,

and I think it's really important, actually, that we question things, and I can actually even see a need for Alex Jones and his platform and what he does. But, you know, the questioning part of journalism is to try to find the truth. And that was not what he was doing in the case of Sandy Hook because the reports were out, the truth was out, yet he didn't spend any time looking for it. So it was just like so surreal for me to be sitting there and everything that was going on. It was very difficult. Tell tell us what so when how soon after the shooting did Alex Jones start saying the things he was saying that it never happened. It was on that day. He was beginning to question the circumstances

around the shooting and saying that it looked like a false flag. And what was that like for you? For you and your family, for your son and Jesse's dad, just all of you. What was that like? You know, I was describing in court that after the track directly after the tragedy, you are in complete shock. And you are trying to figure out how you're literally going to survive if and how. And I hadn't even actually gone home. I had gone to my mom's house and all of my family and friends

from across the United States flew in so you can imagine it was a A very busy household But during that following week leading up to Jesse's wake and funeral there were some hushed conversations going on around me and of course I wanted to know What people were talking about and and it was about somebody that was, it was Alex Jones saying that the tragedy never happened. And it's interesting because this perpetrates kind of a fringe of people who are really not grounded

in reality. If you look at truth, truth is really our reality. We have to agree on it in order to have a civil society. And so, you know, we saw outcomes of this very early on. There was a Westboro Baptist church, I think that filed permits with our town to protest the children's funerals right off the bat. On the stand I was talking about looking out almost a week later at Jesse's Wake and seeing the hell's angels there with their motorcycle gear on and the logo on the back.

I'm just in such shock that I can't even really react, but to come to find out later that they were there to really keep the peace because they knew about these permits that had been filed. We had been assigned a state trooper for each of the families. There were 26 families. So each of the families had a state trooper that stayed with us 24 hours a day for a couple of months.

And at one point, they took all of our cell phones. And of course, I needed to know why. And they said, it's just to make sure that there are no threats on your cell phone. And you know, it was just incomprehensible, inconceivable to me at that point. To eat, I couldn't understand why somebody would be threatening. And I asked the question, but of course, it is inconceivable. So nobody really had an answer for me. And then it's continued on for years until the present day, actually. Now, how long and how many times, if you know, did Alex Jones perpetuate this for?

Because I know he's, he claims that he now realizes that it's real and that Jesse was real and that this tragedy actually happened. But for how long did he perpetuate that horrible lie? You know, in various degrees, it's been almost nine and a half years now. We're coming up on the 10 year anniversary. So, in some form or fashion, he's continuing this to this day. He's saying that it was a sham proceeding and that the court wasn't real. He has a previous attorney that's going on his show saying that everyone was scripted

and we were literally reading off of a script. So, you know, he, I believe, I mean, I sat in front of him, I looked into his eyes, I know that he knows that Sandy Hook happened and that it was real. and that it was real. I think that there was, you know, just the potential to have a lot of people tune in that, for different reasons, didn't want to believe that it was real. First of all, to very hard truth, to think that in America, we can have a school massacre

where 21st graders are murdered in two first grade classrooms and six educators. I mean, that's not anything that anyone wants to believe. And I think some people thought that they might take the easy way out by not believing it. And then there are other people that really have absolutely no trust in the government. And they really truly do believe that it didn't happen.

And so here we come back to because truth is golden, it is really important for us to, there is a truth. And I got to sit in front of Alex and look into his eyes and tell him that I am a real person, that I have a history that Jesse did exist. This was really, really important to me as a mom because he was such an extraordinary child. And I got to have him for six years and his actions, especially his brave actions at

the very end, his courage to stand up to the shooter and save nine of his classmates' lives. I mean, he's known for being a hero. Tell people that story. That's an incredible story. If you don't mind, could we spend a few minutes just talking about Jesse? And I mean, what an incredible boy. He's six years old, and I just can't get over the name of your nurturing

healing love comes from him and that he knows that concept and just tell us a little bit about him and that day that sort of the heroic little soldier that he is and was. Yeah, so the first memory of him and I love to share this because it gives you kind of an idea of the personality that he was, was right after his birth, and he was born 11 pounds. And so he was a C-section, and I walked to the nursery to see him. He'd been whisked away. And I saw a bunch of nurses gathered around the the nursery window taking pictures. So I walked up behind them and I said, what are you taking pictures of? And they said, there's this enormous baby. And literally he was enormous because an 11 pounder is like, you know, almost twice the size of a normal six or seven pounder.

And he had literally crawled down to the bottom of his see through plastic bassinet and tried to crawl out. And so I love telling that story because that's the level of energy that he had. He was bouncing off the walls. He was always happy, always just a very, very loud voice, very boy stress. And his two favorite things in the world were little yellow, not necessarily yellow, but little the rubber ducks that you can collect. And he had almost every kind of yellow duck you could possibly imagine. And then the little army men. So when we were looking for a logo for the Choose Love movement, we knew we wanted to start

in schools and I know we'll talk about that in a moment but we were like, hmm, yellow ducks or army men and that's why our logo is a yellow duck. But he really was an incredible, I mean, he used to, we called it patrol, the fence of this little farm that we live on in Sandy Hook, and he would literally put on an army helmet and put on army camo boots and go around and pretend like he was protecting us. And so it really wasn't a stretch when I heard that he used his final moments, you know, Adam Lanza, who was the former student, a really a recent grad of the Newtown school system.

He had come back to the same elementary school that he had attended and where his mom had taught. He shot his way through the glass doors and he made a left down the first grade hallway. He knew the layout of the school. He had attended it. And the principal of the school and a guidance counselor came out of a meeting that they were having in a door on the right hand side of the hallway.

So he killed them, shot them dead, and then he immediately turned to his left and entered that classroom that happened to be Jesse's classroom. And everyone was scattered, everybody terrified. He continued to shoot kind of adult height and most likely murdered Jesse's teacher before his gun ran out of bullets or jammed. I guess there's still a question about that. And during the short delay, Jesse told his friends to run. And he is credited with actually saving nine of his classmates' lives before the shooter reloaded

and then shot Jesse in the head. He died with a single bullet hole and then the rest of the kids that were left in the room and then proceeded to the next classroom on the left where all of the kids had congregated into the bathroom. The teacher had moved them in there to be protected and he murdered all but one in that bathroom that was the one was standing in the corner. And then the police came, the sirens were approaching the school.

And so he ran back into the first classroom and then killed himself. So really he and Jesse's bodies were pretty close together. But that was, you know, just, you know, an amazing thing that Jesse did and something that I'm so proud of him for. It was really who he was. And then you have this chatter talking about how he never existed and how none of this happened. And it was really more than a thorn in the side of all of the families because this impacted all of us

for almost 10 years. It was really a decade of literal bullying in every way, shape, and form. And so other people, other people listened to Alex Jones and came out and what did tell us what they did to you. And before you do that, can we just fit, I want to just say one other thing. So Jesse, they gave him, I forgot what it's called, heroes funeral or what? Mandor and chief. Yeah, commander and chief funeral, which is extraordinary honor. It's usually reserved for what? Like, I had some state and returning war heroes and he was considered

a war hero because his first grade classroom was a literal war zone. And that was such a beautiful tribute to him. We had first responders coming from different states to take part in his funeral. We had mounted troops at his grave site. We had a calvocade of motorcycles in front of and behind his hers that would close off intersections. People would be pulled off to the side of the road out of their cars, kneeling on the ground, praying, people saluting the hearse, knowing who was

coming by, it was really just an incredible send-off for him. I love that. To me, that shows all that can be good with people. There are some really good people in the world. Now, tell us about these horrible bullies and what they did to you for the last 10 years. Well, and it's not, I might just say, it's not just me and Jesse's father and Jesse's older brother, but it was the other families as well. They sent emails, left messages on our phones, threatening, they actually shot at Niels' house with a gun and if it's done to one of the families, you know, they actually shot at Neil's house with a gun. And you know, if it's done to one of the families, I mean, really, we may not, the families may not agree

on everything. I mean, we didn't know each other before the tragedy, but really, we are connected in our loss forever. And so if it happens to one of the families, you know, it plants a seed of fear in your own head. And so, of course, you know, I had that with my older son. I mean, he had emails that were CC to all sorts of different people, politicians, his educators, you know, questioning who he was and you know, taking little bits and pieces from my previous life,

enough to be kind of, you know, really weirded out by it. Why was your mom on a, can you tell me why your mom lived on a commune in Tennessee and You know she attended a grateful dead concert in 1984 and what who is your father? It's not this person. It could be this person and Having you know the names of my family members all scrambled up clearly not Someone that was working from a full deck of cards, I guess, as you say. And it's very unsettling.

So what made you bring the Alex Jones case? What were you hoping to get out of it? Is that you know you sued for what 150 million and I think you got 49 million, but there's a cap in Texas about how much you can actually get. Why was he, why did you, did you have to sue him in Texas? Is that why it was in Texas? No, he's from Austin. And so that's why we chose to sue him there. You know, for a while, I think that maybe everyone that's bullied goes through maybe some of this process, unless you stand up to your bully right away, you think, well, if I ignore

it, then it's going to go away. And I think sometimes it does, but in this case, it didn't stop. And so we felt the need to make it stop. And we really, it wasn't about the money, it was really about the message. And as far as the money goes, there's an appeal, there's a bankruptcy, there's a whole bunch of families suing behind us.

So there may not be any money, but the message was clear. And that is the importance of truth in our society, and that we are bound by truth. We can't go off and say whatever we want about other people that's harmful to them. And I think that we had been going down that path. And I think that I really truly believe that this will reverse that course. And I think that it is so vitally important

for our society, especially where we are now. So do you feel a sense of relief? I do feel a sense of relief. That it, that it's over for me. I know that he, he went on his show during the entire two weeks. In fact, the majority of his time was spent on his show talking about what was going on in court. I mean, there were just some incredibly really crazy moments in the courtroom with me having to pinch myself like, is this real? Where our attorneys produced a picture

that he had created with Lady Justice and the two judges that were trying his case, the one in Texas and one in Connecticut on fire. Just some other antics that went on that were really kind of unbelievable, but I will say that it did, you know, when I was looking at Alex and this is probably not the response that you would think that I would have, but I really did see someone who had no one. You know, he had no one show up to testify for him.

By the time that I was able to address him from the witness stand, I was the last witness and then Alex was going on. So, you know, I'd been sitting in the courtroom now for a week and a half. And so, I watched everything that went on. I was watching when he would get up. Well, actually, that was after on the stand. And you're just thinking, you're just your own worst enemy. And then on top of that, no one came, no one testified on his behalf, no one. And at one point, he brought his wife, his second wife for his ex-wife, and she clearly did not want to be there and actually left halfway through his testimony. And so, you know, I looked at him and I said, you know, we're the same.

You and I in the want and need to love and be loved. And it was, I just had this realization sitting there looking into his eyes that the lies and the deception and the greed all came from a deep, deep void that he has in his life. And that void is lack of love that he's trying to fill with other things. But of course, we know you can never fill that void with certainly not lies or even money that has to be filled with love and connection and belonging. And I saw a man that was struggling. And so, you know, people were talking about my

composure on the stand, but I really found that in my compassion for him as seeing him as another human being that was really struggling. I've actually never met anybody that hasn't been hurt themselves, that is actively hurting other people. I mean, it's what a beautiful and perfect segue into what you're doing now and what you've turned this tragedy into this incredible foundation that you've created and the message that you, that Elizabeth is helping amplify. And I'd love to talk about that.

And one of the reasons I find this so extraordinary is because in the wake of these mass shootings and what there's been over 300, 350 since you lost your son. All anyone ever talks about is guns. Gun control, gun control, gun control, go out and buy more guns. You always see after every mass shooting, gun sales go up in this country the next day, there's these spikes in gun sales, because people are, I don't know, they're made, what they're either they're afraid, they want to protect themselves because they think the answer to shooting is to arm everybody and arm the teachers, or they think that people are going to pass laws to take their guns away.

So they better stockpile them and get as many as they can. Then everybody else says, we got to pass gun legislation, gun control, gun control, gun control. That's all anyone ever talks about. Gun gun, you know, it's all about the guns. And you are the person, you are a person who was directly impacted by this. You are the person who, I mean, you know, you have lived the thing that is everybody, every mom, every parent's absolute worst nightmare and fear. And you've experienced it firsthand. And what's extraordinary is you don't ever want to talk about guns and

gun control or I don't even know what your position is. And I'm not even going to ask you what your position is because what your message is, it's all about nurturing and healing and love. And, you know, again, I grew up in the criminal justice system and it was all about punishment. And there's a movement in criminal justice now about restorative justice. And it's about healing and it's about love and putting people in a saint, you know, if you've done a harm to somebody and committed a crime and there's a victim, you have a facilitated discussion where you put people in the room together, kind of what you got to do with Alex Jones. And you

have a discussion where you hold the person accountable and you talk about how it made you feel and they talk about what happened to them, and it's in some ways a healing for both. And it's an incredible movement. I've actually watched it in a homicide case with the family member of the deceased and the person who who committed the murder. And it was, you know, the person was still punished, but yet it was so healing for both. And it's this movement that's happening in criminal justice far too late. I mean, this should have happened a long time ago, but here you are doing the very thing. just if you wouldn't mind talking about about it, how it was inspired by Jesse, that there's science behind it. I mean, I watched a couple hours. I actually watched, there's a lot, there's YouTube's and TED talks and all the stuff that you're doing and I feel, I just think you are on to something extraordinary and big and I think it's going to be everywhere in every school,

in every prison. And so I would love to, I think I think I can turn it over to the two of you to talk more about it. I just think it's incredible. Well, I just have to say, I've been in the privileged position that you're in, Karen, to be able to ask, garlic, a million questions. So I have not so much to say, but more a question, Charlotte, which is, you know, would you share with everybody where the nurturing healing love, testimony sort of came to you in the process of after Jesse's murder? And what that meant for you as a person,

and how it really redirected you as a person as his mother in the wake of that murder. And what it reminded you of in regards to how you wanted to move through your life because he was, as you said to me, one's your greatest teacher also. Absolutely. And you talked about a little bit about the gun control efforts creating the

biggest run on guns that we've ever known in our country. And my number one priority was to keep our kids safe. I knew that what happened at Sandy Hook was 100% preventable. And so I looked at the efforts until that time that we had taken and one of those things was gun control, which wasn't working. One of those things was anti-bullying. And you know, a focus on the actual bully, anti-bullying, a double negative, that wasn't working. And then to expand that a little bit, our mental health efforts weren't working. Our substance abuse efforts, the war on drugs, I mean, we have more drugs in our society now

than ever before. So I thought, wow, what we've been doing is focusing on the problem and watching the problem grow. So I'm not going to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I'm going to go a different way and address the root cause and actually Jesse helped me tremendously in my focus. The first time I went back to this little farmhouse that I shared with my two boys as a single mom, I noticed that he had written a message on our kitchen chalkboard and this was shortly before he died so I didn't find it until his after his murder, but he had written

three words, nurturing healing love. And I was astounded because I knew that if Adam Lanza had been able to give and receive nurturing, healing love, the tragedy would never have happened. Someone that loves themselves and can love and connect with others is not going to want to harm themselves or others. And it just seemed so simple to me, but simple isn't always easy. I knew that that was the direction that I had to turn to, that that was the root cause of, by the way, almost all the suffering that we have in our society.

And so I literally founded the Choose Love Movement in January of 2013 and started to go to work. And this is what I've done seven days a week since is focusing on this message of nurturing, healing love and speaking to as many audiences as I can, providing as much awareness. We're now, I think, seven years after releasing our comprehensive no cost life skills program. And I've very adamant that it be no cost because this would have saved my son's life and it can reduce and prevent so much suffering. We're now in over 10,000 schools, 120 countries and I will say I love to be able to announce on your show that we have launched a choose love for prisons program as well. And the Department of Corrections

in New Hampshire has launched this in a prison. There, they have done some research on it and revamped it a little bit. And now it's going in, it started in the women's prison, now it's going into the men's prison. And they are going to give us this program to put on our website so that we can release this to other prisons across the country. I, one of my most rewarding, I think, audiences is talking to prisoners and telling them about the story, Jesse's tremendous courage,

so opening hearts, which then opens minds, but also giving them this understanding that there is a choice. And a lot of times they tell me, hey, we never knew that we had a choice. All we knew was anger, hatred, and revenge. And you hurt me. And I'm going to hurt you and the ones that you love even more. But given a choice of love, which do you think that they would choose? They just didn't know that they had the choice. And so we have this very, whoops, it's backwards, powerful formula that literally is a enables you to thoughtfully respond to get in between what's happening in your life and your response

and choose love as your response because of course you're fully in your power when you do that. Absolutely amazing. So, there's so many things I want to talk to you about this. So much of what I learned when I was learning from you about this is that children, the science has shown you, you have educated people, that children are taught to hate, right? That they are born to love and taught to hate. And so you learned, for example, that Adam Lanza had all had a childhood of missed opportunities, right? And so talk a little bit about that and why you think this could have saved your son's life.

Absolutely, I mean, I knew that someone that could have done something so heinous must have been in a tremendous amount of pain. And it turns out that he was, he was neglected. He came to school and had needs that were known, that weren't met. He was bullied, he was most likely abused during his schooling by perhaps a teacher.

And it didn't surprise me without the essential life skills being taught that we need, by the way, we're not born with these essential life skills. And I'm talking about the ability to make connections, have healthy relationships, manage our emotions, the ability to self-regulate, to make responsible decisions, to process pain. I always say there are two immutable forces in life, love, and hurt, and pain, and we're

all going to feel them. We know we don't want our children to feel them. We know that they're going to feel hurt and pain. And so it's our responsibility to give them the skills and tools they need to process that pain. They should be able to learn from it, grow through it, and be strengthened by it. And actually, if you think about it,

that's how we grow as human beings. You talked about there being science behind all of this, usually decades. This is called post-traumatic growth. We literally can grow through difficulty. Most people that I tell that to have never heard of that before. Really, really important that we give our kids this awareness that that's a possibility, that difficulty that happens in their life, is literally an opportunity for growth. It changes the dialogue from fear to love, and that is

exactly what we teach in our programming. It's amazing. And so you feel compassion towards Adam Lanzat, right? And you've forgiven him, it sounds like. Absolutely, I feel compassion for him. And I have absolutely forgiven him. And here's the thing, I mean, I've gone through this whole process and I've learned myself. I didn't have these essential life skills that I'm talking about when I started,

but I've learned them through creating this program. And one of the biggest things that I've learned is the power of forgiveness. And a lot of people don't really understand what forgiveness is. We think, and we say, oh, forgiven, forget. But obviously, there are things that happen that you will never forget. And one of the other big things is that we think that forgiveness is a gift that we give the person that hurt us, that most likely doesn't deserve it, doesn't know, doesn't care, when in reality and all of the decades of research on the benefits of forgiveness, point to forgiving, being a gift for the forgiver. And so I learned so much about forgiveness and people, I've gotten a lot of attention for forgiving Adam Lanza.

People say, oh my gosh, how can you forgive the man who murdered your son. And I think to myself, gosh, after looking at all the research behind the benefits to me, how could I not? You have less, less anger. You get your personal power back. It helps you in your relationships. It elongates your life. I mean, the list goes on and on. And I think it would be, can you imagine a world where, and actually we're creating it. And the really crazy thing is, you know, this formula with four character values, forgiveness is the favorite character value for kids of all ages because they say it's like a superpower. And they say it feels so good to let it go. What's your given, did you forgive Alex Jones?

I did, I did. Wow, actually. And actually, I was quoted in an article written by my Alma Mater, which is Boston University. That was the headline, Sandy Hook Mom, forgives Alex Jones. And actually, I was crossed, that was one of the crosses for me by the opposing attorney about that.

And, you know, I had to explain to the jury, and it was a beautiful moment. I was so excited that he asked me this question because we're live streaming on YouTube to the world. There's an HBO camera here for a documentary. I've got these incredible jurors doing their patriotic duty here. And I got to tell the whole courtroom about forgiveness and what it actually means because a lot of us don't understand that forgiveness doesn't mean that you don't hold the person who hurts you accountable for their actions. You have to.

And I use the example of rape. You know, a rape victim almost has an obligation to hold the rapist accountable. Are they might go out and rape again. But they can forgive for themselves and it's literally one of our lessons that we teach in the program. It's like a choice and it's like having a pair of scissors cutting a cord that attaches you to pain and taking your personal power back. Of course it doesn't mean that all of the pain and anger magically disappear. It starts with a choice and then it's a process that you continue to have to do sometimes

and maybe for the rest of your life, but the outcomes based on the research and how it makes you feel, definitely make it worth it. Wow. So can you talk a little bit about what you and Elizabeth and JT are doing together? Because it's a really exciting work that you guys are doing.

Well, I want to say one thing which is every time I see you scarlet, I never ceases to amaze me how you remind me to tell the truth. Then I think that is standing in our power and that is the most loving act towards others and also ourselves. And it's just been such a privilege to be your friend, to be up on this journey with you a little bit. I was approached by our mutual friend to play Scarlett in a movie and direct the film.

And so we have written, we've gotten a screenplay written by J.T. Jesse's brother and Scarlet's son. And we were taking that out to buyers to produce. And again, it's to amplify the message. You know, it's about Scarlet's commitment on behalf of Jesse to be a hero on behalf of others. And that I think for me is the greatest takeaway from being privileged to be Scarlett's friend and on this journey with her, which is the lesson that Jessie taught

all of us, which is to be a hero on behalf of other people, to do the brave thing, to stand in the discomfort of telling the truth. And I know that's what you did recently. So I love you. I love that JT is doing it with you guys that he's a part of this. And how has this been? I feel like he gets lost in the conversation, right? He was what, 12 years old at the time, one of the most

formative years, and he lost his little brother. I mean, how does, how is he? It sounds like he's amazing, but how is he? Yeah, he's doing incredibly well. He just graduated from University of Connecticut and he wants to be a script writer. And really that's one of the ways that he healed. He would write scripts and he met one of the script writers from Family Guy. They would meet once a month and JT would work on scripts and he would mark it up and give it back to him and he just has this passion for writing and writing humor. So, not that the movie script that we're working on or that he has written is humorous, but that's the kind of script writing that he really loves to do.

And I can see that that's kind of how that he's dealt with his pain, which is really interesting to me. And he's an amazing young man. I mean, he's ran for state senate when he was 18 because he saw one of our senators not returning my calls or emails and my frustration at that. Just trying to connect with someone who ran on an education platform, trying to share my message about keeping kids safe. And so, you know, he's really seen a lot.

And he also has it in his heart to be part of the solution. And I couldn't, I'm just absolutely so proud of him. Well, I think great things are going to come of him. I can't wait to watch all the things he does. So, are there any, I have two more questions. Number one, are there any parting words you have for the legal A.F.ers who watch this? But my other question is, I know that people are going to want to get involved

or somehow be a part of the solution and what can they do? What can they do to help this incredible, incredible movement that you have going? Thank you so much, Karen. Well, the website is on my backdrop here and there's so many different ways that you can get involved. This is literally a movement. And it was named that on purpose because it is going to take each and every one of us taking responsibility for what's going on in our world in order to create the world that we want to live in that safe and that's peaceful and loving. And so we have really relied on word of mouth

and referral for our programming. And you can see that it's now being taught in every state and 120 countries. So really the biggest thing that people can do is help spread the message. If you know an educator, tell them about it or an administrator. We have a home portion to our program.

Bring it into your home. Sign up for our newsletter. Share it on social media. Donate, I mean, there are lots of different ways to help. And we appreciate every single person who steps up to the plate for that for sure. What's the website? Where did they go? They go to chooselovemovement.org. Right. And everything that we have is no cost. So any educators out there that are listening, you can access our programming for free, you just register.

And anybody that works in prisons very shortly, we're gonna have our prison program up. So sign up for the newsletter and we will be announcing that shortly. Well, I would love to help bring that to New York City and New York State prisons. I think that would be incredible. So excellent. So what we'll do that together, hopefully, any last words before we, before we leave, either of you, you want to, if there's anything else you want to say. So,

all right, well, I, I feel like fate brought us together. I cannot thank you enough for spending this time with us. And you are an inspiration to everybody, just that you can be the incredible force that you are. And in the face of tragedy, use it to help others. And I cannot thank you enough for everything that you do. I feel honored to have met you. And I'm so appreciative that you would spend spend this time with us and Elizabeth. I really did bring us together. Thank you so much for making this introduction.

Good luck with your project. I can't wait to see it. Thank you so much, Karen. Thank you. you