Legal AF by MeidasTouch - TOP LEGAL EXPERTS REACT TO TRUMP ESPIONAGE, Pleading 5th, NY Prosecutions & More

Episode Date: August 14, 2022

Anchored by MT founder and civil rights lawyer, Ben Meiselas and national trial lawyer and strategist, Michael Popok (back from his vacation), the top-rated news analysis podcast LegalAF x MeidasTouch is back for another hard-hitting look in “real time” at this week’s most consequential developments at the intersection of law and politics. On this episode, Ben and Popok analyze & discuss: Trump’s likely prosecution for violation of the Espionage Act and two federal statutes related to 11 categories of government documents he took with him to Mar a Lago and what it means for his future run for office; recent developments to supercharge the Manhattan DA’s prosecution of the Trump Organization and its long-time CFO with a trial set for October; Trump’s assertion of the 5th Amendment more than 400 times during Wednesday’s full-day NY Attorney General’s civil deposition and what it means for the civil case to be filed against him and his children; Trump’s long-time appraiser turning over 35,000 page of information to the NY Attorney General’s office this week to try to “purge” a contempt finding against it and what it means for the main civil investigative case against Trump; and the DOJ’s “fake elector” criminal investigation gains velocity as it grabs Rep. Scott Perry’s phone and subpoenas the records of Pennsylvania state legislators involved in the failed plot to overthrow the genuine electors of the state and hand the election to Trump, & so much more. SHOP MEIDAS MERCH:  https://store.meidastouch.com/ Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 The Tony Michaels Podcast: https://pod.link/1561049560 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The search warrant at Mar-a-Lago, top secret documents and sensitive compartmented information, nuclear secrets. And yes, Donald Trump is being criminally investigated for violations of the Espionage Act. What have we learned and what will happen next? Fifth, fifth, fifth, four hundred and forty times. Donald Trump pleads the fifth amendment at his deposition in New York, in connection with New York Attorney General, Tish James, civil investigation into the Trump organizations, fraudulent valuation schemes, and Trump's appraisers at Cushman and Wakefield in that same investigation turn over 35,000 documents to Tish James related

to the Trump organization after they were held in contempt of court, just like Donald Trump. And let's not forget, there is a criminal prosecution taking place right now in the Manhattan D.A.'s office in New York into the Trump organization and Alan Weisselberg who are criminal defendants. That set for trial October 24th and Alan Weisselberg's motion to dismiss to try to get rid of these criminal charges was denied this past week. And then we turn to Pennsylvania, where radical extremist Republican Scott Perry was served with a search warrant for his cell phone in connection with January 6th and his schemes to overthrow our democracy leading up to that by the DOJ and the fake Republican Pennsylvania electors were

subpoenaed by the DOJ. The most consequential legal news. This is Legal AF Ben Myceles joined by Michael Popack back from his summer vacation and Michael. I'm wearing this workout towel right now for those listening for those watching you see it because while I'm sweating with all this legal news take a place it's a little bit of a workout just reading that introduction how you doing Michael Popeye I'm doing great and when you see Michael Popeye back behind the microphone with Ben my Salis and I'm wearing a check shirt you know what asked me with that check shirt mate what is that check shirt made. What is that check shirt, Michael Popeye? Checkmate?

Some are checkmate, some are over for Donald Trump. First time, 230 years, a president is the subject of a criminal prosecution for violation of the law. We could finally say it. You and I and others have said, give Merrick Garland time. And it may not be the prosecution that people want at the moment, but it is a prosecution criminally. And we'll talk about, and if successful on one of the three statutes, it's an automatic bar to future office. We'll talk about that next.

Look, we've never been Marik Garland Apologists because there's nothing to apologize for. We've always explained to our viewers that this is the way our justice system works. And to date, there's been over 800 criminal charges alone in connection with the insurrection, with over 400 convictions and 400 more who are going to be convicted, who are moving through the queue. And at the same time, we've always talked about that grand jury relating to January 6th, that's been in paneled that is clearly investigating Donald Trump's conduct in relation to January 6th. But as we focus Popeye on the January 6th committee,

when we focused on Trump's criminality related to the election, sometimes we need to take a step back and also realize what was fundamentally some of the reasons that Donald Trump was not going to leave the White House unless he was literally dragged from the White House. And number one, it is the fact that he is a ridiculous narcissist dictator wannabe. That is one of the reasons that he that's mentally how he's programmed, but also he engaged in so many criminal conducts while he was the president of the United States. He engaged in so many bad acts, selling our country away bit by bit to foreign actors. So severely compromising our national security interests that he knew that the chickens were

going to come home to roost when he was kicked out of office and didn't have those presidential protections. And that is what this search warrant is also all about because of Trump's bizarre, dangerous, red flag, high red alert relationships with our enemies, shunning our allies, secret back room meetings with Putin and Saudi Arabia and people like that when Donald Trump was president of the United States. But this search warrant was executed earlier this week on Monday. We got news. We got news. We got news that it was a few dozen FBI agents showed up very respectfully.

Handed Trump's lawyer, a search warrant. The search warrant was issued the previous Friday by a federal magistrate judge out of the Southern District. These federal agents who arrived at Marilago in Florida knew very specifically where to search. Attachment A of the warrant had the very specific locations. They knew where the boxes were going to be. They searched it. We'll talk about why they knew that. We now have a copy of the return. So when people think about what a warrant is, there's three documents that constitute the warrant. There's the affidavit, there's the warrant, and the warrant will list where, what's

being searched and the crimes being investigated. And we know the crimes being investigated now. And then there is a return all handed to Trump's lawyers. Trump was able to watch actually the search through the surveillance cameras while he was in New York and that according to his lawyer, they lied from the outset about everything being planted and that defund the FBI and they they did fake pictures of the federal magistrate judge next to each gilane Maxwell that they that they blasted on Fox News. They doxed FBI officers really heinous conduct, but it went from that they blasted on Fox News, they doxed FBI officers, really heinous conduct, but it went from that they planted that the FBI planted these records to Trump.

This is Trump's newest BS, which doesn't even matter when we'll talk about that. Why what these crimes are? That he classified all about Clinton, but that he claims that he'd be classified all of the records that he had a standing order. And the standing order was that once you left the White House with documents, it automatically became this declassified. So it went from the FBI planted documents to they planted documents that Trump declassified.

It literally makes no sense because there is no bottom. And the Republican right wing extremist echo chamber, it was dizzying to try to come up with what lie they were saying, who they were attacking. It's really absurd. But Joe Lockhart, the press secretary for Bill Clinton really said it best, which he goes, if you think the Republicans are going to be embarrassed for what occurred over the last 48 hours, you've missed the whole plot line over the past few years. There is no bottom to these radical extremists.

We are legal AF, they are lawless, criminal, cartel, masquerading as a political party AF. Michael Popack, bring us through some of the behind the scenes of what was going on in the search war. Then let's talk about the crimes being investigated. As you know, as you and I go back and forth, I've been chomping at the bit, talk about this, I've been traveling, and I haven't been able to get on the microphone with you guys, but let's go.

We've known from almost the very beginning because the National Archive disclosed months ago that Trump took 15 boxes. We'll talk about the categories and the classifications of the things that were on the search warrant receipt So that we now know in detail what was taken, but we always knew there were 15 boxes sitting at Mar-a-Lago that were not properly cataloged 15 boxes sitting at Mar-a-Lago that were not properly cataloged. Presidential Records Act is pretty beautiful in its simplicity. Every document that is either generated or read or deposited with the president or anybody related to the president is automatically not the personal possession of that person, but a presidential record. And on the way out, you leave behind everything and you take nothing.

You don't ask for permission. Oh, is this classified? Is this not classified? I like to keep this memo as a memento because we're gonna talk about why under one of the statues, particularly, or two of the statutes, whether they document as classified or not is irrelevant.

It's not relevant. And he hasn't been really charged with this statute like David, General Patreus who was charged with a confidential document retention or disclosure violation. Sam Berger, the former national security advisor for Clinton, the same statute, that statutes not in play. The three statutes that are in play have nothing to do with whether it's classified or declassified.

We'll get into the nitty-gritty of that. But so that's what's supposed to happen. And that's what Obama did. Every scrap of paper in the Obama administration was left behind catalog properly and stored by the inappropriate place by the National Archive, including just the burst and other bubble for those that troll us. 30 million pages of documents that the National Archive reviewed carefully and then sent to the National Records facility

in Chicago for it to eventually be delivered into the Obama Library, Presidential Library, which is most people should know if they haven't visited presidential libraries, are not just places where mannequins move around like they're the president and they show you like, oh, this was the suit that this person wore on this day or this was the penny used to sign a treaty.

It's also scholars use the presidential library because it's a repository of declassified, properly cataloged material. That's what's with Obama or what went with, not even with Obama for his, for his presidential library. This is a horse of a different color. This is Trump on the way out, took 15 boxes with him, including documents we now know, compromise the comprised the highest level

of top secret classification, and that there is the top level. There's 11 classes of documents on the receipt for the executed search warrant. Four of them are top secret or above, 11 classes of documents on the receipt for the executed search warrant. Four of them are top secret or above, and there isn't above, which we'll talk about. Three of them, three of those categories were just secret. And things in those boxes included dossiers and information related to Macron, the French

prime minister about Roger Stone. And here's the issue. It's not just taking it out of the White House. That's bad enough. But where did he store it? He had it in a relatively unsecured basement or other areas of a resort in Florida. A resort that in 2019 alone had a Chinese national spy wander their way through, you know, Mar-a-Lago, taking photos and getting into places they shouldn't have gotten into.

So all our Chinese spies, Russian spies, or other people that want to hurt us have to have to know is, and I'm sure they did know, because it was in the press, that there were 15 boxes of potentially top secret documents sitting in a basement. That's all they needed. That's all they needed. And then let them figure out who they have a portray a plumber or a pool boy to go get those boxes. And this hasn't been really overly reported either Ben. The reporting that I've seen and I'm going to talk about it more on Wednesday with Karen is that part of what was in the boxes is what the the Spook community, the CIA, the spy community calls signal information. Ben, you know what signal information is?

I didn't tell me what signal information is, Michael Pope. Think about this. They were used the words, the intelligence community uses signal information to mean. Information that they've obtained from wiretapping, eavesdropping on foreign leaders. Yes, our government eavesdrops, wiretaps foreign leaders, including allies. And that is called signal information

and there is a belief that there's signal information sitting within the boxes of material that Trump took with him. So for any Republican, that's a patriot that is defending the president before even knowing what the charges were against them because a lot of them defended them before the search war was unsealed and the statutes were even listed and they all jumped up and down about. He declassified everything. He can't. It doesn't stop him from being prosecuted for the statutes that they artfully chose to investigate him under.

Let's talk about those statutes, Popeyes. They are 18 USC 2071 concealment removal mutilation. That's 18 USC 793, the espionage act gathering, transmitting or losing the information, defense information. And then 18 USC 1519 destruction, alteration and falsification of records. And just going back to that espionage act 18 USC 793. That's actually what Snowden was charged with as well, a very serious charge. And each of these charges carry with its significant jail time, the 2071 crime three years, max per document, the seven, 93 espionage act, 10 years max per document. And then the USC 1519 destruction alteration, that's a 20 years max charge. But serious criminal penalties right there. Let me, let me, that was a perfect layout and lay up for me. Here we go. You

ready? Ready. None of these three statues that you just identified. None of them require that the documents that were deposited in the office of the president be considered classified secret or top secret. None of them. It's enough that the documents were what they call it's an art term of art deposited or given to or seen by the president or his staff during his time in office. That is enough. They did not charge him with the one they charged Patreus with and burger with, which is 19 USC 1924, which is the removal willfully of classified information. That's what that's what nailed Patreus. He took eight binders of classified material and he gave it to his mistress who used it to write a book That's a bad thing, but they had approved that he knew it was classified that Sandy Berger

Part of me knew when he obtained the material that it was classified. They don't have to prove that so the Republicans can turn blue in the face and go on their head and spit wood and nickels It doesn't matter whether it's classified you're arguing you're barking up the wrong tree. And the thing that's the biggest penalty among these three, as we kind of dovetail with the 14th Amendment article three disqualification clause, and whether it's applicable here is that you're going to love the irony of this one, Ben. 18 USC 207171, which is really the big, bad charge here. They're all bad. SB and Aj act for president. It's terrible.

But 18 USC, 2071, not only did Trump himself increase the penalty from one year to five years in jail, the irony, oh, the irony, but it has a specific provision that's never been tested in the courts, so particularly but it has a specific provision that's never been tested in the courts, so particularly Supreme Court, as a particular provision that says you will be barred from office if you have convicted of violating this statute. So it has a built-in article 14 to squalification right into the statute. Now, the open question is, if it's in conflict with article 14, for what disqualifies a president, is this statute going to survive our super majority right wing

of the Supreme Court? I don't know, but it's built into this statute right here. The other ones, like the S.B. and Aj act, you can back your way into article 14 and section three of the disqualification clause, because if you're giving aid and comfort to the enemy, which, which, which if you're violating the espionage act, okay, which will put up on the screen, what the elements of that are, then the argument, the next argument would be if you violated the espionage act, you've also by extension now are barred under the 14th amendment. So for people to think, oh, who cares?

This isn't the one that I thought he was going to be charged with. Who cares? You know, just as you said at the top of the segment, at the top of the show, it's an I've been that this was a president that knew new boundaries, that tested and every, every limit, every standard, every checks and balance, he saw as a challenge to see what he could get away with, like a petulant child. Five years ago, you and I were talking about the academic issue of, I wonder if he violated

the Amaluments clause when he signed the hotel deal to make everybody that visits him, stay at the hotel. Wasn't that like an interesting, right? Academic debate about whether he vitally and he did pop up, but the difference was at the time he was the president and what was unprecedented was presidents engaged in those type of flagrant crimes in clear and present view with a political party supporting it. That marriage together makes it unprecedented. But my point is, isn't that adorable that we were talking just about, but even then days into office, we were talking about the first time a president has ever mixed, mixed

business with politics and leadership and, and had that happen in such a blatant transparent way. As you said, supported by a party. Now what we're looking at, yes, everything he's ever done is flouting an inviolation of a criminal statute, which one finally trips him up since he knows no boundaries. He thinks he'll never be caught. Somebody who thinks they'll never be caught keeps going and robbing banks. Until one day he walks out and he's surrounded by the marshals and he on video evidence and holding the bag of money. And that's what's happening here.

It's not just as we like to joke and might as like to joke, a terrible, terrible shitty day and week in Trump world to have your appraiser turn over 35,000 pages of documents about whether there's been loan inflation and appraisal fraud committed. The same week that your, you know, the faunie willis is going forward with your former lawyer enforcing a betestifying front of the grand jury. The same week that your home, your home is rated. I don't care about the words. A search word is executed and top and super top secret material is found and you would learn

that you were the target of a criminal investigation. You hire your first criminal defense lawyer in the same week in Georgia because you know you're up, you know what's Creek. This is, as you said, the chickens coming home to roost and hard against this president. And he's still hiring crappy lawyers, pardon me. He's still hiring lawyers that don't have the pedigree that would get him out of this mess that he's created for himself. That's a better way to put it. And talk about that briefly, Popaka, the two lawyers I've seen who have been on TV who have just done the worst possible job. Thankfully for the worst possible person, there's always that expression. You get the lawyer you deserve and boy just Trump get the lawyer.

He deserves and for all the legal AF viewers out there, we've even told you that the these lawyers who are representing Trump, Alina Haba and Christina Bob is her name. They, uh, they're asked, I don't know. Maybe there's nuclear, uh, not really short. There's nuclear information or not. It is my understanding that no search warrant was given to us, just like lying in the worst way. You had a recently Alina Habasant, well, the advice that I gave to Donald Trump

is I told him that as long as you don't run for president, all of these charges would go it away. Well, that only is that just to be the attorney. The attorney client. Let me tell you how I waive the attorney client. And that allowed to say what the advice you gave to your client. It's the number one ethical violation that there is,

but he really has the worst legal team, but no one wants to represent this horrible, criminal person. He pulled, I don't know where he got him from. Maybe from his Kanye, Kim, yay connections, but he pulled, you probably know him, you know, in the general world, a guy in Atlanta, who's a well-known criminal defense lawyer, mainly representing rap stars who run a foul of the law. That's basically his claim to fame. Besides the fact that he goes by the handle

hashtag billion dollar lawyer. That's his new, but at least it shows a certain modicum of acceptance that Trump, it may be prosecuted in a criminal setting in Georgia. So it's going to be this guy versus Fahni Willis. I think it's the wrong guy because he's a trial lawyer unless they're planning to go to trial on this, not somebody that's going to get the respect they think of Fahni Willis and some sort of negotiated play, but we'll leave that for another day. This other band of lawyers that he's chosen for the subpoena. Let's just stop for a minute. We've spent the last 20 minutes talking about something remarkable that even our minds can't get around the enormity of it. First time in the

history of this Republic of President is the subject of a criminal prosecution. I mean, I can't, it's breathless to say these things. Um, we're still not even there. It isn't even arising out of the January, not grand jury. Those charges are still likely to come to. This is just separate other conduct. So which, which he, he, he, he, after round and found out, as everybody, as everybody likes to say, the, the, the, the national archive had identified months ago, the existence of the 15 boxes they knew were missing. You and I speculated at one time, how come the national archive doesn't know what's out the door? Shouldn't they know? I mean, that's even worse. They knew. They

knew from talk. I like to see you on a legal a.f. and we just, yeah, episode on this at 1000 percent. I will have to find the number of that episode, but it's 1000%. We talked about this months ago and they tried to negotiate for the return of the of the boxes. Everyone says, oh, it's on I love the Republicans. It's unprecedented for a raid. So we conducted on a president's former house. That's not the focus.

The focus is not on that. The focus is on your president, the guy that you support, you're not troubled by 15 boxes of you don't know what going out the door and staying in a wooden door with a flimsy lock in the basement of Mara Lago. That doesn't trouble you as a patriot of this country. Because they're not patriots, Popeye. No, it goes back to what Donald Trump said when he was first running. He said, I could shoot somebody what Donald Trump said when he was first running. He said,

I could shoot somebody on fifth Avenue, on fifth Avenue. And I, and I would get away with it. And frankly, it's worse than that. He could likely give our nuclear secrets to foreign adversaries and keep that in his home in Mar-a-Lago. And the right wing radical extremists will support that because we need to realize everything with the right wing is projection. So when he refers to his enemies as enemies of the people, that is who the radical right wing extremists are. I'm glad it's being exposed. But Popuck, one of the ways you expose it though, is that you just keep on pushing. You do not give up. And that's what really got me super upset. And we'll talk about howven brag is still doing some good

work. I mean, they are prosecuting the Trump organization. They are prosecuting Weiselberg. We'll talk about that in a little bit. And they did win their motion to dismiss there. But look at what happened with Tish James, constantly fighting, Trump's not turning over records. Judge, I want you to hold him in contempt. Judge, he's not showing up for his deposition. OK, he'll appeal, we'll fight this. I'm not giving up because his arguments are bad faith.

And he's going to lose if you just keep on fighting. And then she finally got to the point where after all of his excuses, including him using the death of his first wife, who he buried in the back lot of his golf course in a mound of dirt. Would you thought I was kidding about what I told you? What episode? You thought I was at the Pope-Pock made that up? I thought it was a fake photo. I was like, how could this possibly be? This is the most

disgusting thing I've ever possibly have seen. But Tish James kept on pushing Trump, used that as an excuse to delay his deposition. Then he uses that. Then he goes to Arizona and holds these absurd, fascist circus rallies that he holds there. But she said, show up, show up, show up. Well, Don Jr. and Ivanka had their depositions taken. They didn't plead the fifth. Remember Eric pled the fifth when he had his deposition. Well, let's get the context before you move on. Weiselberg and Eric Trump were the first to go in. They went in months ago. They did the same thing Trump did. They both invoked, it's interesting. Eric Trump and Weiselberg, who's now, we'll talk about it next, the subject of a criminal

prosecution that will go to trial for tax evasion and conspiracy of tax evasion or zone personal tax evasion. 500 times he put up the Fifth Amendment. As did Eric Trump. Of course, we're going to talk about the context of what it all means and a civil investigation. One now, remind everybody, Tish James has not yet filed her investigative document. People think, Oh, she's already like charged him. First of all, it's a civil investigation.

It would be a lawsuit, a complaint, a civil complaint that would be filed. She's not yet filed it. Talk about keeping your powder dry and the patience of the professionalism of the lawyers that you and I are going to talk about today and in other days, contrasted with the nuttiness and the unmoored professional behavior of Trump world. You're watching, you know, this is like a locomotive that can't be stopped in the form of this case, Tish James, Fawney Willis, Merrick Garland. You're watching professionalism at its greatest.

She could have brought this complaint and filed this complaint months ago, months ago and not waited for this. She's doing it exactly on time and exactly right. But I want to remind people she hasn't filed that suit yet. That's what I want, Pope Bach, and my leaders. I want professionals. I want to remind people she hasn't filed that suit yet. That's what I want, Pope, in my leaders. I want professionals. I want competence. I don't want this airtight.

I don't want this clown show weirdness. When it comes to this is life, people, this is life. This isn't, you know, you know, the radical right to me, why we call them a death cult is because I don't think they truly appreciate the value of life. I mean, they will give their life in the hands of people who are literally killing them each and every day, but I digress. So fifth, fifth, fifth, Donald Trump takes the fifth amendment four. Let's talk about what it means. And so what it means, Tish James is actually in the room, in New York, in the deposition that she finally secured to take place. And in a civil investigation,

and in a civil case, unlike a criminal case, by someone pleading the fifth, it creates what's called an ad verse inference against the party that's pleading the fifth and an adverse inference is what it sounds. It is an inference that the jury can make that the information that the person is refusing to answer is adverse that it would be bad if they answered the question. So you can go in front of a jury in a civil case, not a criminal case, in a civil case only when someone pleads the fifth and say,

ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that individual took the fifth one, I asked them, did you do this? And by not responding, you should infer that they did, in fact, do that. You absolutely can do that under your Fifth Amendment rights. Well, that in a criminal case, but in a civil, you can't. Michael Pope.

That's how OJ got convicted for the killing and the murder of his ex-wife, because they said to him, OJ, did you kill her? And he said Fifth Amendment. In the civil case, that's how he was found liable. You're right. And in the civil case, they said, you know, that's basically the equivalent of he did it. Now, so now let me unpack what you just said for and catch up everybody in legal AF law school.

Why did Tisch James ask 440 questions or so, knowing that in response to each or desiring that in response to each, there'd be an answer of Fifth Amendment. That's on purpose. And you load up, I've had this happen where I knew the other person was going to have to take the Fifth Amendment. So I loaded up all of my questions with things that I knew they were going to have to, they were going to take the Fifth and it was going to be to my advantage and disadvantage them in the civil case. So she very methodically worked out 400 questions, knowing that he was never going to answer one or at least knowing that if he went that route because she didn't know exactly what he was going to do on the

way in, although I'm sure her office had discussions with Robert Castello, the lawyer for Trump about these issues. But so she's like, all right, you're going to go that way. All right, fine. I'm going to go plan B, which I'm now gonna ask you, you committed tax fraud, didn't you? Fifth amendment. You loan inflated all of your properties, you raised the value in order to get higher loans and then deflated them for tax purposes, didn't you, sir?

Fifth amendment. Now what happens? And 398 more questions like that. Now she takes that with a ribbon around it and she gets what's called a jury instruction at the appropriate time, not grand jury. She's not she's a civil when she's sitting in front of her jury and doing her closing argument. They will have already worked out with the judge, the instructions to the jury to apply to the case to find if he's violated whatever civil statutes that she's going to bring her case under or file her case under. And so they will be told now let's talk about adverse inference. And there is a New York state model jury instruction that they may modify it a little

bit that the judge is going to give to the jury when when the the defendant in the case or a party in the case takes the fifth amendment, that you are to give that an adverse inference meaning and the judge actually instructs the jury of how much weight and how they're supposed to give weight to that particular event in the case in evaluating their evidence as the trial effect. And so that's why that answers the question. Why did she ask so many questions? And not just say, okay, he's not going to answer. No, you load up. It's the opposite. It's counterintuitive. You load up on the questions, knowing you're going to get the Fifth Amendment, and then you work to get the right

instruction at the time of trial. So the jury, of course, knows that the Fifth Amendment is really, really, really important in the civil context in a way that in the criminal, it never is. Yeah, you know, and strategically there are sometimes as just kind of a practice, practical tip. When the case is a little bit more simple, like, you know, I'll do some catastrophic car accident cases where, you know, and I have a case right now, for example, where an individual who was driving a truck was drinking and driving for a large corporation, they were drinking and driving, and they're going to plead the fifth when they're deposed.

I'll speak with the lawyer in that case, and because it involves one discrete event, were they drunk while they were driving and was they an accident, I could just get a written stipulation to say, I'm going to plead the fifth on any question that you ask me because it's a discreet issue. But certainly in a case like this with Trump where there's multiple properties, multiple issues, multiple sub issues that for the elements of the civil claim, you absolutely want to hit each element, because what you set yourself up to do very quickly is when you file the lawsuit, which let me be clear. Tish James is going to file the lawsuit.

I just said she's not going to. I just said she hadn't yet. She will file very quickly a motion for summary judgment to the judge and say judge, this case doesn't even have to go further. It doesn't even need to go in front of a jury because there is no disputed fact that Trump engaged in this conduct. How do I know? He didn't dispute it.

Here are all of the questions I asked. We could draw the adverse inference, find against him right there. and I've had cases very recently to police shooting cases where the police officers pled the fifth and then they tried to file summary judgments against my client when they shot and killed a deceit and and then they plead the fifth and I said judge it's an adverse inference. I don't even, they took the fifth there. And so that just shows you how it plays out at a practical level and Popeye in connection with the same Tish James investigation. Tell me a little bit about what's going on with

Kushman and Wakefield turning over 35,000 plus records here, 35,867 documents to be specific. And to tie, we always like to tie it to a real world. You know, I was the global head of litigation for a competitor of Cushman Wakefield. So I kind of know what their world is on the appraisal side. And to remind everybody about Tiss James' investigation, what it is and what it isn't. We've seen the reports and she's filed her own report

to the judge about what she's found so far. And she's focused primarily on and has been quite candid. That investigation started because of our fellow podcaster and might as touch brother, Michael Cohen and his testimony before he served his time that Donald Trump would regularly inflate the value of his businesses above their true value in conjunction with the praisers in order to secure the highest loans possible and then deflate those same assets when he was kind of what is time to pay the taxes. So Michael Cohen is there's no there's no secret.

It's not like, well, I wonder why Tis James went after that. She's public. It's because of the testimony that Michael Cohen had originally given. So the appraisers who serve an important role in the lending process related to any property, including commercial or residential here, it is very important. What's in their files? So apparently, it's a little odd because Cushman and Wakefield apparently was the go go to appraisal firm because these big global real estate firms have different branches. They have brokerages, handling sales. They have capital markets, handling investments and putting together money, capital stocks

in order to buy property. And then they have, they usually have an appraisal department or appraisal company that's also part of the umbrella of services that they provide. And apparently this was his go-to appraisal company for years. So like every loan he ever took, and normally the banks require their own, their own, a, a, a, to do the work. But Cushman and Wakefield is one of the top five in the world. So they probably would have been the banks probably would have been like, well, that's who we use. Oh, we're okay with Cushman and Wakefield.

They're an accredited credible professional appraisal company. So it looks like he was able to get to use his own appraiser for this. And the question is whether the 35,000 pages of documents, which they have not produced timely. This was all due, Benender, remind everybody in March. This is now August. The judge has had it for those that are listening and not watching.

My hand is under my chin. Judge has had it with waiting on Cushman and Wakefield who first said, well, it's a lot of documents. We can't get them all together. Judge is like, yeah, no, that's not going to do it. They were bound in contempt. Not only contempt, you're right. $10,000 a day in contempt.

And I did the math. They're out about $200,000 by delivering them this past week. I'm now they've moved to have the contempt extinguished because that was judge. We got it. We got that we got it. 10,000 a day. And I love the, I love the press release. The customer in a wake field put out.

They said, we have gone through strenuous lengths to not to avoid the fine. They said to comply with the judge's order. No, you, you know what? You, you, you had a, you had a $10,000 a day, you know, gun to your head. And that's why you did it. So now we, we don't know it's in the 35,000 pages, but we know it's everything that can buy with marches earlier production that they did for the Trump organization, which we'll talk about next, which is a criminal defendant. People forget about that.

For in the appraisal world, which is the entire prox of Tish James's civil investigation. Can't besides the measures, which you and I've talked about at length in prior podcasts, which was the law, the who ran parallel to the appraisal company, but as the financial accounting firm for Trump, who they're the ones that walked away after, you know, it said, oh, those 10 years of financial statements that we did, they're not reliable. Nothing in there is reliable. You can't rely on that. It's extraordinary. Now the interesting thing Ben is, Pushman and Wakefield didn't do the same thing. Pushman and Wakefield, which is a big,

traditional, well-funded, old, moneyed, lined company, did not walk away from its appraisals. It said, no, our appraisals are fine. We just didn't want to turn the documents all over it one time for some reason, but they didn't do what measures did, which said, you got us, you got us. We can't rely on anything, the Trump executives say, we can't rely on the documents they provided to us. We didn't do our audit protocols properly. Sorry, my bad. Oops. Wait, Kushman Wakefield, which has a lot of malpractice

insurance, just putting it out there a lot and could be the next target if they're not already of the investigation by the byproduct investigation by the same office of Tish James' Attorney General. They may be in trouble. If they find that they that there's a manipulation of those numbers that Trump Trump people got on the fund with the appraiser, which by the way often happens, borrower doesn't like the appraisal number because it's too low because they're borrowing more than that because they need it to be a certain number.

So the appraiser does his independent work which he's supposed to do or she's supposed to do. But then takes in, oh, you didn't see this comparable from this building down the street. You didn't see this comparable. And they go, all right, well, let me see your comparable. So, all right, and they change the number. Now they find number of places where

Trump is influenced the outcome and change that number to a higher number. Kushman Awakefields in big trouble. Hope I got one of the things we've seen with the January 6th committee, though, we've always known Trump's MO, but through recordings and through the first hand depositions and accounts. We really see how his criminal manipulations work, how he threatens people, the way he talks to people like a mobster. And you can almost imagine what those phone calls were like when he picked up the phone and called the CEO of Cushman and Wakefield or whoever he talked to and said, this is what you're going to

do for me. You're just going to do it. You're going to shut the F up and you're going to do it. And one of the things that has been revealed, which has just come as, you know, a surprise to me. And I'm just a little naive is that when someone talks to me like that, I just usually tell them to go F themselves, you know, and perhaps maybe that's why, you know, I don't know.

That's why I have a podcast. I guess so. But when someone curses and yells at me and tells me to do something criminal, I don't do it. And I curse back at him and I go, oh, okay, so I can give you an example of that. That of what you know, not example from you, because I agree with what you said. No, an example within or even our followers and listeners or Democrats talk about it's time to get a steel rod up your backside and and

don't run away because somebody calls you names. I saw a whole bunch of people in Twitter verse a few days ago, debate the splitting hairs of whether what happened at Mar-a-Lago was a properly executed search warrant or it was a raid. Who gives a rat's ass? Call it a raid. It was a raid. It doesn't matter. The fact that it played into some narrative of the Republicans, some of the Democrats thought better. Oh, it wasn't a raid. It was a, it was a, it was a raid. And it's okay that it was a raid. It's okay that we think that a confidential informant, uh, tipped off the FBI as to the days the Trump was not going to be there was going to be up in bed, Mr. Playing golf or in New York and went particularly that day and knew which doors to go to to pick up the boxes. It's okay. And you got a proper search warrant

from the judge. It's the way the process happens all the time. And here's breaking, and this is breaking news to that effect. Popuck, Copac coming on the wire right now, according to Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thresh in the New York Times, at least one lawyer for former president Donald Trump signed a written statement in June asserting under penalty of perjury that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government or people with knowledge of the government are telling Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush. So there was actually a another apparent under penalty of perjury obstruction by one of

Trump's lawyers breaking on the wire. Right now. So on that, that's great. I saw that literally all we have a might as touch wire between Ben and me. And I just saw that come across like a ticker tape. The other, you know, the other aspect of that is all these other, I coined a new word. It's mine. I'm sure it's been out there before, but I came up with it for the Trump followers who were flipping around like a, like a on a boat, a flip flop and depending

upon the new facts that are coming out, because this is a fast developing story, almost hourly, we're getting new information about the private of justice. They lie 60 times in one hour, one every minute. They have to because they don't wait for the full development of the information. So they're so they're always out in front and then the facts change and they got to go back and all of them come up with a new excuse. So the one where they came up with the I love this one. The president has a magic wand on power phrasing that he can just wave over documents doesn't have to anybody and he can just magically make all the top secret markings disappear. And even if they're the highest level of nuclear codes, he can take it with them as a momentum and keep them in an unlocked, you know, broom closet at Mar-a-Lago.

Wrong. There is a process and it generally involves the White House Council who would have been our sh-pot favorite, Pat Sipalone. So Pat Sipalone would have been involved with the declassification. It may be part of Maggie Haberman's reporting. We'll see what's next, or if he was the one that signed it. But, but that's a process because you don't let people just, you're not moving out of a hotel and grab on the towels and the, uh, and the bath mat. This is the president of the United States. And, and it's the storage of those items because

he's not supposed to take momentos from what he left because we're worried about espionage by people that want to hurt America. Well said, Popeye. Popeye, have you seen the new Midas Touch merch by any chance? Have you seen it? I haven't been told about it. Tell me about it. Person, woman, man, camera, prison.

That is the new Midas Touch, third person, woman, man, camera, prison. Go get it at store.mightestouch.com store.mightestouch.com. Pope, like these were flying off the shelves yesterday. In addition to the person, woman, man, camera, prison, mightest touch gear that was flying off the shelves are convict 45, which also is a noun, if you know this, convict 45. You could you could read it both ways, convict or convict 45 alternate meetings. That's available at store.mitustouch.com. We're actually running out of supplies, Popeye. We literally sold like hundreds of these yesterday. I have another one. I have another one for you, and Jordy, to consider that I laughed at. If I laugh, that I think it's pretty good,

because I'm a little bit cynical. I saw one, you know, all the trumpers that run around with, and I've seen it here in my own neighborhood. Trump 2024. Have you seen the one that says Trump 20-24, like years in prison? I like that. The one 24. The one thing though, Popak, and I'll give a little insight to our legal a

viewers when I craft this merch. Lots of people don't like to wear things that have Trump's name on them. So just even the name on them with anything is a little bit disgusting. It's like having a piece of shit on your shirt. And so the way I try to avoid that is convict or convict for it, it doesn't say his name and person woman, man, camera person. It's the implication of out saying his name. But I do like the idea. Pope, I want to tell all of our YouTube listeners as well, we got a lot more to discuss today. So don't you worry. We're going to talk about the criminal case. We're going

to talk about the criminal case against the Trump organization taking place right now and Alan Weiselberg. We're going to talk about the Pennsylvania fake electors and this guy Scott Perry, an insurrectionist, radical right extremist, uh, uh, Congress members disgusting to even say that. But if you're watching this on YouTube, will you do me a quick favor? Will you subscribe to the legal AF podcast on audio? And when this comes up on audio, just press play for a little bit. That helps us in the algorithms there. And if you get this on audio, subscribe on YouTube. And if you're watching this on YouTube, make sure you subscribe right now to the YouTube channel. Just hit the subscribe button. You do that, Ben. It's super. You just hit subscribe. It's

right there. A little thing comes on. It says subscribe. You hit subscribe. But the way you do it for audio is search whatever you whether it's Spotify, whether it's the Apple podcast, whether it's Google podcast, whatever you get your podcast, search it, search legal AF, hit subscribe, hit the check button. Make sure you subscribe. It's free. By the way, it is free. When we say subscribe, people think I think people think it's like a magazine subscription. It's free.

It's free. It's on Apple pod. It's a plus sign. You just hit it. Hit it. Hit it. Hit it. Hit it.

Store. Might as touch that comment. Make sure you subscribe. Popuck. What's going on? The Manhattan D.A.s office. Alvin Bragg. People are pissed at Alvin Bragg. People are saying, I'm a little pissed at Alvin Bragg.

You know, that Alvin Bragg wouldn't prosecute Trump and just kind of dropped it. But he didn't drop his entire criminal prosecution of the Trump entities. There's a criminal case against the Trump organization set for trial October 24th, a criminal trial against Alan Weisselberg, the Trump organization CFO for tax manipulation said for October 24th, Weissselberg and the Oregon Trump organization filed a motion to dismiss. And it was denied by the New York Supreme Court, which is their lower court. New York's trial courts called the Supreme Court. Their Supreme Court's called the Court of Appeals.

So really, we are known clature, but just take my word for it. But the New York trial court denied the motion to dismiss, which basically means we are going to trial. Of course, other motions and pretrial motions can be heard. But this case is going to trial. Popeye, what else do you know about? I have so many favorite things that came out of this reporting that I'm going to where you and I are going to talk about So again reminder episode we're on episode 85 plus of you and me doing this Yeah, and if by the way, if you add in Karen Friedman, a different one or when's the show? We're up over a hundred episodes of this sometimes the you know leave it to us to remind everybody the continuity of each show

but Remember side dance KFA's old boss, before Alvin Bragg was elected and took office, started a prosecution against the Trump organization and actually got an indictment against the Trump organization, which is effectively the business vehicle through which Donald Trump and his children have operated and obtain their riches for the last 20 plus years.

They are a criminal defendant in a state prosecution led by the Manhattan DA's office, which was started by Alvin Bragg's predecessor, but Alvin Bragg could have dismissed the charges and decided to go out. But by the way, Polpac, your co-host, your midweek co-host Karen Friedman Agnifalo was the number two. She was the second highest ranking person in that office. I just said that. I said it was a robust, but, but the exactly, but it number two, exactly couldn't, couldn't answer.

Number two. So Sivant starts it. And, and really the, the speculation on the street, and I've been with enough people in the business that deal with that office that can sit around and speculate about what's on the street. And they early on said that that was an effort, which we all observed, to try to get the highest levels of people with financial information, Wiselberg, who had his own tax evasion problem to flip on Trump. And they also thought, Matt Kalamari, we love that name, who was the COO would flip on Trump. And they also thought Matt Kalamari, we love that name, who was the COO

would flip on Trump. The problem is both those guys are holding strong and they're willing to go to trial for Trump. You know, listen, Michael Cohen went to trial for Trump. I went to jail for Trump ultimately. He's repentant and he's seen the light and he's an amazing podcaster now and a special voice out there that's important. But you know, I call them not the followers of Trump, the foolers of Trump, they're fools. And they're gonna go down and become felons because of their association with Trump.

So Weiselberg indicted. Trump organization indicted Alvin Brad continues the prosecution of both. Why haven't we heard about this in a long time? Those indictments came down a long, long time ago and it's not just one count. Weiselberg is charged with 15 felony counts, one five felony counts of related to conspiracy to commit tax evasion of the Trump organization. And one personal count of tax evasion related to him not properly disclosing where he lived. He said he lived in New Jersey when he didn't and certain other deductions that he took. And the Trump organization is all has to do with executive pay

and how Trump hid the fact that these people were being paid things like they're home. They're being paid in the form of homes, apartments, tuition, car services that were no but the word declared his income and nobody paid taxes on. And that's a problem because that violates criminal tax law. So he's looking at a large barrel of a big gun related to a counts that are against him. And this is interesting. And if you caught this Ben, he moved to dismiss.

This is the first hearing in almost a year in the case. Because that motion's been sitting for almost a year. March, February, March, April, May, June, July, about eight months that motion's in the sitting. So first time they've been in court on the case at all. And after the judge denied the motion to dismiss on behalf of both entities. The next thing, or the next order of the day for this judge was what else we got. And so the Manhattan D.A.'s office dismissed one of the counts. They thought was a little bit weaker, was time-barred. And then Weiselberg and the Trump organization made a motion to suppress certain statements that were made by Weiselberg.

Get this Ben. He was interrogated for eight hours straight and apparently said some things while being interrogated. I presume without counsel that he now sort of regrets having said. I assume it's not good for Trump and he's moved to suppress it arguing that a civil rights were violated and his rights is Miranda rights, maybe were violated and he was, you know, not given a Snickers bar, water for eight hours, whatever it was. And he said these statements, they should be suppressed. My gut is most of those statements are not going to be suppressed than whatever they are. They are. And then he'll have to decide whether he's going to take the Fifth Amendment

not testify trial. But this is a very good reminder, because some people kind of lost this thread, I could see in following Twitter while I was on vacation a little bit. Some people said, well, how does he get to take the Fifth Amendment if Alvin Bragg isn't bringing his case against them? You've forgotten. They're at Fony Willis prosecution. Now, Department of Justice, S.B. Ginawshack,

and other things, prosecution. Alvin Bragg's office prosecution of his organization. Those are areas where you generally would take the fifth amendment because you're staring down the criminal, the barrel of a criminal gun. So I had never heard that Weiselberg had been locked in a room for eight hours and gave some statements that he now thinks better of. And pop up. Donald Trump could be called and likely would be called as he witnessed in the Trump organization criminal case. And he will take the fifth in connection with

the criminal case when that occurs in October 1000%. That trial is October 24th is when it's set for it does seem like that trial is going to take place unless, of course, weisel burg in the Trump organization take a guilty plea, but that doesn't look like that's happening. We will keep you updated with more there. And let's turn to Pennsylvania, where I was last week. I was out in Pittsburgh for my just co founder, Jorries wedding. I really love Pittsburgh.

What a beautiful city. Pennsylvania is a beautiful state. But little tucked in this underbelly, we got a little bit of some fascism going on there. And by and large, we have, oh, you know, Pennsylvania, the people there are incredible. You know, you got Federman who's running for Senate, you got Shapiro, who's running for governor. You got just real family values, people who just love, who are gritty, who are real. That's just one of the coolest things that I've got. Authentic. Authentic people in Pennsylvania who don't want to be bullshit to, who don't

like being lied to, you know, and frankly, you know, that's one of the reasons that Biden won Pennsylvania. And even the Federmans and the Shapiro's are pulling above by because Pennsylvania knows a bullshitter when they see one and, you know, they definitely see that in people like Dr. Oz and like God. Yeah, I was going to say thank God for us that the Republicans have overplayed their who are very good at overplaying their hand. They win Roe versus Wade and the Dobbs case and get rid of the constitutional right of a woman to have an abortion.

And they think, oh, we're gonna do now, we're gonna turn back the clock on all the state constitutions and Kansas said not so fast. And most women in those states and others who support women's rights at not so fast. And so they're rethinking their strategy now of how far they really can go. And in Pennsylvania, and in with with Oz versus Federman and in Georgia with Herschel Walker, it's another case of the the Trumpers thinking they can just

put up a ham sandwich and they'll beat an unpopular Biden administration and no co-tales. And so we'll run Dr. Oz is a terrible candidate with clay feet and hersel Walker who's worse. And it will win because they're going to run on the big lie and whatever else like in Virginia with the guy that won there. No, that's not working. Federman Federman who had unfortunately had a heart attack stroke, one of them. And hasn't been able to be on the campaign trail much. He's way ahead. He's way ahead. And uh, and her shall walkers plummeting in the polls as well, partly in touch, you know, partly because of mightest touch and all their great work you and your brothers do.

Well, and I would argue to popoq that it's not even that so much that they overplayed their hand. This is their only hand. This is who they are. They are disgusting, despicable, radical, right extremists who the radical right echo chamber injects this info to trick people into believing that these people are fighting for them, which is total BS and who the mainstream media does a horrible, horrible job of both sidesying the issue. On the one hand, you have an apple. On the other hand, you have a rotten lava-filled pit of disgusting venom. And somewhere in the line, the apple is somewhere between those two. But the mainstream media, thankfully, is not the main source of news today anymore. People go better. People know where to find it. We don't have to bolt sides. That's what we're doing right here on the Midas Media

network, where we are giving the truth to the people. And let's talk about the truth in Pennsylvania is you have this radical right extremist Scott Perry talking about pleading the fifth Jeff Clark, the low level environmental lawyer at the DOJ, a total radical nut case, who was an individual who never even tried a case before, never led a criminal investigation investigation who Trump wanted to appoint to lead the entire Department of Justice so that a letter could go out to all of the states saying that they needed to overturn the results of their of the electors within their states. While Republican Scott Perry was one of the main people behind that plan. He introduced Jeff Clark to Trump and recall from the January six

hearings, Scott Perry was one of the Congress members who asked Trump for a pardon. Oh, and why would you ask for a pardon if you don't have a guilty mind? Scott Perry collecting pardons. If you look at the way people refer to him, this is just the media doing a horrible job. They go, Republican Scott Perry runs the ultra conservative freedom caucus, ultra conservative. Stop calling that shit conservative. There is nothing conservative whatsoever about this despicable, disgusting, anti-American conduct, just because they call themselves conservative. You don't have to call them those things. Pope Box.

I mean, I want to weigh in on that. And I was like, I'll wrap it up. Way in and tell us what's going on in person. Yeah, I'm going to do both because I like your both side is I've seen you, you guys refer to that in your literature before. It reminds me of the famous Dave Chappelle skit about 9 11 and jaw rule where where he said it's like during 9 11 when MTV had jaw rule on it's it let's go to jaw rule for reporting on 9 11 who cares what jaw rule has to say about 9 11 who cares with Marjorie Taylor green has to say about impeaching Merrick Garland

I mean and the fact that they put them on an equal playing field in the mainstream media and don't call them out and say, you know, radical, unhinged, Congress person from rural northern Georgia makes a comment about our attorney general, puts her on the same playing field for that nightly news is really an abomination to first amendment journalism. So here we have Scott Perry, who I didn't realize until the Jan 6th committee reporting and things that you just ticked off, is so involved with the attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Not only did he introduce Jeff Clark, now the infamous Jeff Clark, who would have been one of the shortest tenured attorney generals ever in like 14 days worth of tenure had Trump been able to pull this off. He also is super close to Mark Meadows.

It's been reported and and by the Janssix Committee also that he was he was talking to Mark Meadows regularly, including on the day of Janssix. chance six about whether Trump should or should not come to the capital. So all those messaging on his phone that has now been seized are really, really important. He was instrumental in the fake electors scheme, the green base sweep, whatever we called about. We talked about the past with Navarro and with Eastman. And he's also reported to have made numerous phone calls on behalf of Trump as a sitting Congressperson, two places, you know, like Georgia and others. And this is the Cassidy Hutchinson tree still bearing fruit, continuing to bear tremendous fruit. Cassidy Hutchinson testified about the relationship between Scott Perry and Meadows. Scott Perry, a five term Republican Congress person from York County Pennsylvania,

hard to believe that's what your that's your county Pennsylvania's finest, but they could find to represent them. So now, I love, I love how they have to figure out the best result even on a bad day, make lemonade out of lemons. His offer, the best is office could come up with Ben in a press statement was, we've determined that even though they seized Representative Perry's phone, he is not at present a target of the criminal investigation. That's the best they got right now. And I'm not even sure that's true because usually the, you know, investigating agencies

like the Department of Justice and the FBI don't comment at this particular moment whether somebody is or is not a target. And you certainly can't take that to the bank because that is, this is a fast-moving investigation. Even since the Gen 6 Committee has started, they have said publicly that they've been flooded with new information, new witnesses that have come forward. This is the reason why the JAN-6 Committee is being extended. They really thought it'd be over by now. I know the cynics and the Republicans are like, sure, they're going to run this right up

until the election day. And they may, but not because of timing, but because they have so much new information to process. And so Scott Perry may not be a target today, although I'm not sure that's accurate, but but based on his involvement, what and what's on that phone, he might have put himself into harm's way. It couldn't happen to a nicer representative. Also, not just Scott Perry, but we have other of these fake electors in Pennsylvania, these Republic intellectors. We've previously talked about Fony Willis' investigation in Georgia, where the fake electors got letters in Georgia that they would be targets of a criminal investigation

in Georgia into election fraud here. This is not from a state investigation. This is the Department of Justice, Merrick Garland again, this time subpoenaing, which is different than the search warrant on Scott Perry's phone. The search warrant is we're taking it. We're taking it. A court's order that we get it. This subpoena is, what chance can we have these? It's the first step. And if they go, no, you may then want to go get the warrant and say, well, give it to me. step. And if they go, no, you may then want to go get the war and it say, well, give it to me. So this and the same thing with Trump, you know, at Mar-a-Lago, the National Archives first went through the proper months,

for months and months in subpoena. So here the Department of Justice is subpoenaing records from these fake electors. And everybody will recall that one of the pillars of Trump's plan to overthrow the election was to have Vice President Pence object to the valid democratically elected electors. And then when there was objections made to say, oh, look who we got here. Look what we got here. Another slate of electors have come in the valid ones from the States.

And then they would make those the valid electors and declare that the state legislatures appointed these electors and that based on the electoral college vote with the state legislatures picking these electors, that Trump would win. And he would overturn the results in all of the states that he had lost in or at least those five or six states that would have changed the balance of the election when he got destroyed in the electoral college and destroyed by seven eight million votes in the in the popular vote, but I digress. So Popeyes, these electors got subpoena.

This just also shows that the DOJ is not messing around. The DeoJ can walk and chew gum at the same time. And multiple packs of gum. Exactly. Anything else you want to add here about the. No, I need to make a lecture. Look, and this is where let's plug the show again. Like this. This is where regularly watching the show is really important

because it builds on itself. It really is a class. You know, I think it's better than a time. where regularly watching the show is really important because it builds on itself. It really is a class. You know, I think it's better than a TED talk. It's a Ben and Michael talk and Karen on Midweek and in other times that if you follow it, you're gonna, you know, we're very focused on continuity and continuity of stories.

I think that's why people, what are the reasons they like us? Is that it's not like we're saying something today that we didn't say earlier, or we're acting like we said it wrong last time, we didn't acknowledge it, we acknowledge it. If we make a prediction that doesn't come true, we're the first ones to call ourselves out on the next episode.

We're giving you our best seasoned analysis and handicapping of events that we observe based on our own life and professional experience. Here, for instance, we talked four or five months ago about the number two, you always like to talk about Karen as the number two lawyer beside Vance. The number two lawyer from Eric Garland is Lisa Monaco and Lisa Monaco and one of her public statements five months ago said that they were very troubled by the fake electors and that they may have, this is when we first got the inkling that the Department of Justice was looking at the criminal side of things

as it relates to Donald Trump. That was the first time you and I talked about it. Lisa Monaco in a speech saying we're troubled by the, we know about the fake electors and suggested that she had opened an investigation. And now you're seeing it come full circle. Again, multiple grand juries we now know are going on simultaneously. The multiple packs of gum that are being chute at the same time as the Department of Justice is walking is going on in Washington, DC looking at various things, including one that is deadly focused on the fake electric scheme. You know, Popeye, I've read and reviewed our comments and reviews. And one commonality is the fans love it when you talk about how great our show is.

Did you? Did you know? That's the overall they go. When Popeye talks about how great legal AF is, boy, does that make me want to watch more and more legal a F. But in all seriousness, Popak, I missed you. I'm glad that you're back from vacation. You came back.

It seems at the right time. It says if you, as if you knew, are you the informant, Michael Popak, did you know and did you just joke you, but I'm like like grateful that you're back and that we can share these weekends going forward. We have a lot to discuss. This is, I say it, but I it's true. My favorite part of the week is when I get to, you know, spend time because if we weren't doing it here, Popeyes, and we didn't get to share this with all the great legal a efforts out there, We would still be doing this anyway.

Over the course. No one would be listening. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no dot com now store dot might as touch dot com now get all that great might as touch gear the person woman man camera person New shirt get it while it lasts those those shirts are flying off the rack in the convict convict 45 however you want to read it make sure you get that store dot Might as touch dot com make sure you subscribe right now on YouTube on audio audio, wherever you get your podcast. Make sure you subscribe another ventful week in legal news. And based on what we're reporting today, it's only going to get busier, which is why make sure you refer this podcast to your friends, to your family, to your colleagues at work, send emails to everybody

about this text message as people need to be educated on these issues because the fight for democracy is now, and we have an opportunity, Popo, to truly say democracy together. Ben Myceles and Michael Popo, signing off on this week's legal AF Shoutout to the Midas Mighty.