Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump Can’t ESCAPE his Legal NIGHTMARES

Episode Date: May 7, 2023

Anchored by MT founder and civil rights lawyer, Ben Meiselas and national trial lawyer and strategist, Michael Popok, the top-rated news analysis podcast Legal AF is back for another hard-hitting look at the most consequential developments at the intersection of law and politics. On this week’s edition, the anchors discuss: (1) Jack Smith’s team investigating: (a) whether Trump tampered with video surveillance recordings and evidence at Mar a Lago, with the prosecutor’s obtaining testimony from his long time heads of security and chief operating officer, and (b) the financial relationship between Trump, the Saudi government and LIV Golf; (2) the E Jean Carroll case against Trump goings to a jury early next week, as the Judge corners Trump on whether he will testify at all at the trial;(3) Trump’s latest gambit to transfer his 34 count criminal case prosecuted by the Manhattan DA from Judge Merchan in New York State court to a Manhattan federal judge instead, and (4) developments in the Fulton County (Atlanta) criminal investigation of Donald Trump, with the revelation that 8 of the “fake electors” many of whom are senior Georgia Republican party officials, are cooperating with DA Fani Willis, and so much more. DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS! BETTERHELP: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/LEGALAF and get on your way to being your best self. Manukora: Head to https://manukora.com/legalaf or use code LEGALAF to automatically get a free pack of honey sticks with your order — a $15 value! FUM: Head to https://TryFum.com and use code LEGALAF to save 10% off when you get the journey pack today! HIGHLAND TITLES: Use the discount code LEGALAF to get 20% off at https://HighlandTitles.com SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shop LEGAL AF Merch at: https://store.meidastouch.com Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/meidastouch Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 The Tony Michaels Podcast: https://pod.link/1561049560 American Psyop: https://pod.link/1652143101 Burn the Boats: https://pod.link/1485464343 Majority 54: https://pod.link/1309354521 Political Beatdown: https://pod.link/1669634407 Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://pod.link/1676844320 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Big updates in special counsel, Jack Smith's criminal investigation of Donald Trump. A connection with the Saudis and their live golf tournament at Trump Properties, tampering with surveillance footage at Mar-a-Lago, and new witnesses in Trump's inner circle go before the grand jury a lot to discuss there. Next we discuss this week's developments in the E. Jean Carroll federal trial as Donald Trump fled the United States to go to Scotland and Ireland. Both sides rested their cases and the federal judge, however, gave Donald Trump until Sunday at 5 p.m. eastern time to say if he intends to testify as a witness after he whined in

Ireland that he had to return to America to confront E. Jean Carroll in court. It's a tale of E. Jean Carroll's courage and Donald Trump's cowardice. We'll break it down. Then we turn to developments in the Manhattan District Attorney's criminal case against Donald Trump, where a big hearing was held this week. The judge discussed a protective order he intends to enter. Essentially restraining Donald Trump's threats, the court discussed a trial date, and Donald Trump filed frivolous legal papers in federal court trying to transfer the case from state court to federal court. We'll explain why we think Donald Trump is not going to prevail in that motion. And finally, eight fake electors in Fulton County, Georgia

have apparently accepted immunity deals from Fulton County District Attorney, Fawni Willis, and her criminal investigation against Donald Trump. And others involved in 2020 election interference in Georgia, does this mean there are eight cooperating witnesses against Donald Trump? We will break it all down here on Legal AF. I'm Ben Myselis, joined by Michael Popak.

Popak, how are you? I'm doing great. We almost said a vacationing, Michael Popak. But let's just this doesn't take a vacation. So the Midas Touch Network can't either. So here you and I are in our remote locations, bringing it to our listeners and followers and viewers. Yeah, Popeyes and I are both traveling. We both have to travel with our equipment. We are not going to

miss these legal AF updates for all of you, especially this week. Well, I think every week from here on out for the foreseeable future there are going to be massive, massive updates, but of course, really important stuff to discuss this week. Let's start off by talking about special counsel, Jack Smith's ongoing criminal investigation. And first, who were some of the people who went before the grand jury in Washington, D.C. Well, you had Dan Scavino, who's Donald Trump's social media director and deputy chief of staff at some point. And Scavino rose his way up through the Trump organization, starting as Donald

Trump's golf caddy, then working at the golf course in Westchester before working his way up to become the deputy chief of staff for the entire White House. And then you had Matthew Kalamari senior and Matthew Kalamari junior. They are largely in charge of the security at the Trump organization. Kalamari senior began his career as Donald Trump's driver, and then got his son the job and worked his way up. If you wanna even call it up, I would probably say worked his way down

to become the COO of the Trump organization. And in addition to the knowledge that they may have about the document case, Donald Trump's theft of these thousands and thousands of government records, one of the things to point out about the calamaries as well is they're kind of embroiled in some of the same type of conduct that Alan Weiselberg is apparently, according to Michael Cohen, with apartments being paid for and other things like that that may or may not have been reported. So, Special Counsel Jack Smith had a lot of leverage in these discussions.

But, Popo, break down what's going on with Special Counsel Jack Smith. I love that rundown, Ben, of all their qualifications, the columnaries and scavinos to get jobs at the highest level of the Trump organization in the White House. Matt columnari was actually Donald Trump met him at the US Open Tennis Tournament when he was working security and Donald liked how he handled an unruly spectator. That gives you the ability to one day be the COO, the Chief Operating Officer of the Trump Organization. And Scevino, as you said, started as a caddy, literally, nothing wrong with a caddy by the way. I'm not here to malign caddies

But does that qualify you to be the head of all social media and also be a deputy chief of staff to mark meadows in the white house I'll let everybody in our audience be the judge on that one for those that don't know whenever Donald Trump wasn't tweeting It was probably Dan's gavino when he was back when he was on Twitter because that was one of his roles as social media. You're so right, Ben, about the leverage, and Jack Smith. Everybody that follows legal AF, and we have to be, you know, we're always respectful of factors, a whole group of people that have been with us from the beginning, but then there's new people that maybe just joining us today for the first time. And while we always say legal AF is sort of cumulative, like a course, like a law school,

but not a law school, there's information that people may not know from prior podcasts or prior episodes. Matt Kalamari and Matt Kalamari, Jr. were in the crosshairs, are in the crosshairs with the Manhattan District Attorney's Office when they brought their 17 count felony indictment against the Trump Organization for tax fraud. And Alan Weisselberg, of course, being the lead witness against the Trump Organization, even though it was kicking and screaming. And he had to go serve five months in Rikers Island as a result. Matt Kalamari, Jr., not senior, ended up giving testimony to the grand jury as well about those frauds related to giving executives of the Trump work in a station perks like rent for their apartments and chauffeur, chauffeur cars and all of that tax-free. In other words, it wasn't, they were given the, they were given the perks, but nobody paid taxes on it Mainly the Trump Organization Junior went in he was 28 or 26 at the time senior never did They were pressing pressing pressing pressuring senior columnary senior to give testimony against Donald Trump

And get him to flip and at the end of the day Alvin Bregg at that time and times have changed Was not able to get one insider to the Trump organization to voluntarily cooperate. They brought in the CFO, they brought in the controller, they forced Weisselberg to testify at trial, but they never got that cooperator that they wanted. And they thought senior would be it because of he knew everything. He knew about the according to Michael Cohen, he knew about the property valuation inflation and deflation, the fraud related to that, which is part of the New York Attorney General Civil Investigation. He knew about a lot. And now he's now been brought in to talk to Jack Smith's team about Mar-a-Lago and the surveillance video and what happened to those documents after the Sapina was issued to the Trump Organization before the search warrant because to remind everybody there were three levels of

there was three attempts by the Department of Justice to an FBI to get the documents one was voluntary Hey, based on what you've told the National Archive, you've got documents that are top secret and classified, you need to return them, won't you? Then, and that was Evan Corcoran, the lawyer involved throughout all of this for Donald Trump. When that failed, it went to going to a judge and getting a criminal search warrant, sorry, subpoena issued, and they issued a subpoena on the Trump organization. When they only got 34 or so pages of documents in a small little folder that Christina Bob signed

and certified that this was the entire group of classified documents, knowing or should have known that there were another 100 in dozens of boxes behind closed doors, the government, the Department of Justice knowing that they, that from other witnesses that this was false, then got a search warrant and then the execution of the search warrant. Kalamari, one of the issues now is they got a copy because they subpoenaed it of the video of the surveillance cameras out in front of these storage rooms at Mar-a-Lago. And they caught on the video an image of Walt Nauta,

the body man for Donald Trump, the values, these to call it a valet in olden times, who's like the close personal assistant to the president, moving boxes after the subpoena was issued in and out of rooms. They also have a working theory, we believe, based on reporting, the Department of Justice has a working theory that the, that the tapes,

the video was doctored, right, falsifying evidence. Who would know all about that? The seat, the former head of security and chief operating officer Matt Colomari, senior and his son, the secured, the current security head, Matt Colomari junior. They're both coming in for a conversation with Jack Smith about whether that footage was doctored and why are their documents coming, classified documents, moving around after

Evan Corcoran, the lawyer for Trump, told the Department of Justice that there was no such movement, that there were no more documents. Why is that inconsistent? And we know, Ben, based on reporting, and I want to hear your speculation as to who it is, that there is at least one, if not two, cooperating witnesses on the inside of Mar-a-Lago, giving information and guiding the investigation, including giving them a photograph of the storage rooms, which I assume at real time, showing items in there.

Who do you think the cooperating witnesses are? Well, I will give you the disclaimer that I truly don't know with cooperating with. We don't know. We're productive. But I do think that if you look at Christina Bob, who met multiple times with the Department of Justice, she's got the most to lose here as well. One of the most, they pretty much have her dead to rights at this point. She signed a false declaration under penalty of perjury saying that due diligence was done to examine and make sure that on June 3rd, 2022 all of these records were turned over.

And she kind of comes off to me as someone who's flippable. But that again is pure conjecture and pure speculation. I know a lot of people like to believe, oh it's probably Jared Kushner who's there. I think that's, I'd like it to be that, but I think it's a bit fanciful, but for the purposes of this exercise, I'll say, could it be Jared Kushner, but because I'll say this as well, which is another fact that we've learned about the ongoing investigation, is this focus on the connection with the Saudis and the live golf tournament that's been held at Trump properties, specifically Ben Minster and one of the more recent live golf tournaments where Donald Trump, when he was

asked questions about like 9-11 spread these 9-11 conspiracy theories for the Saudis and said something outrageous like and disgusting like people don't really know who did it and what the links are. I mean, just think about that type of, you know, ridiculous conspiracy theory that he's spread. But look, I think that we all know intuitively as legal AF watchers that Donald Trump didn't just steal these government records as a memento as something he's just going to post on his wall.

Everything Donald Trump does is transactional, right? Everything he does ultimately has a money motivation. Heck, this is the person who is selling these weirdo NFTs of himself. And by the way, they're not even original pieces of art. He's like taking other people's weird photos of him dressed as like space cowboys and like, and like being in the military and this weird cosplay stuff. Wait, wait, the space cowboys not a real thing?

And the meal was an astronaut. It's like the height of stolen valor. But he drew, you know, and then he sells them as as these NFTs heck the book that he put out most presidents leave the White House and they put out a book that they write an Autobiography or at the very least there's a biography that they've Help somebody Right and and and they work with an author who writes it or they co-write it with someone.

Donald Trump's book is something called Letters to Donald Trump. So it is the letters that he received while in office from Genesidal maniacs. And he made a coffee book that he's selling for like, there's some versions for like a hundred bucks, other versions for like a thousand bucks. And it's a book of letters sent to him, not even letters that he sent to people. And he's also posted about Nixon, and he's, you know, came up with this thing in his mind. He's like, well, even Nixon gave back documents to the government, but was paid $20 million for it without recognizing that the whole presidential records act scheme

and all of the laws that were developed because Nixon's a criminal. I know that Trump and the Magga Republicans want to reinvent Nixon or just embrace Nixon's criminality, but Donald Trump says all of that. So I think we all intuitively knew that he's using these documents for some monetary gain. And we probably we previously did some reporting here on legal AF that Jack Smith was investigating knew that he's using these documents for some monetary gain. We previously did some reporting here on legal AF that Jack Smith was investigating whether he was showing classified maps to VIPs and donors in his office in Mar-a-Lago. And so this connection between the Saudis and the Liv Galfe tournament as it relates to

Donald Trump's theft of these government records. I don't think making the logical connection there is all that difficult, what special counsel. Jack Smith is looking into here. And look, I don't think it's a far-fetched speculation here to believe that whether Donald Trump is directly showing these documents to the Saudis or whether the mere fact that they knew Trump had this could be used transactionally. But it's a very interesting update

that that's where special counsel Jackson MacGone is. Okay, let me just, yeah, let me round it out here. I agree with you about Christina Bob being in the crosshairs. She'd be a natural to flip. I like the flippable comments. He's flippable. Walt Nauda is flippable. I mean, he's like middle of the food chain. You know, Lord knows what he was getting paid to run around doing all the dirty work for Donald Trump and being his body man. But, you know, they got him on tape, you know, with boxes moving them

with date stamps on the bottom that are after the date of the subpoena. And they got them lying. That's bad. And they got them lying. That's bad. So another flippable person who may have showed them photos of what the storage room looked like is Walt Nada who we haven't heard a lot about lately.

On the live golf thing, so there's three places, overall three tournaments that have been held or will be held at Trump properties. Dural in Miami, I'm not sure which one this photo is, but Dural in Miami, that minister in New Jersey, which is a stones throw, a golf ball throw to Alina Habas office, that's how we met Alina Habas at the golf course and in District of Columbia in DC. And then right around the time he saw,

we know this publicly, right around the time that Donald Trump signed the deal With live golf to host these these things which for people that aren't golfers who haven't followed it There is a very good argument that this is a Whitewashing There's a word for it that maybe you'll come up with that next that they're used the Saudis are using blood money money of money, money of their organization, to wash away the blood and the stain for doing things terrible, like chopping Kashoggi, Jamal Kashoggi, the Washington Post reporter into

pieces literally at the behest of the Crown Prince. Off of that, they've tried to use sport like soccer, trying to sign messy to soccer contracts, live golf to try to get people to forget about their human rights violations. Right after he sought Trump sign the deal, he also signed another deal to develop a hotel, a Trump-branded hotel for $40 billion in

Oman Jordan, which is related to this whole thing, which Jack, Jack Kushner spearheaded back to your Jared Kushner point. So the fact that Jack Smith, and I'm trying to figure out which of the three or four grand juries been, or maybe there's a new one, do you think the live golf Jack Smith investigation fits into? No, I don't know. You know, there's been reports of all these different grand juries out there. There could be, there very well could be another grand jury that's investigating foreign

influence. Donald Trump earlier today posted on his social media platform something to the extent of I want to call Jack Smith now, not the special prosecutor, but the special persecutor. And he talked about how it says he's a Trump-hating slime ball who is going far beyond the original instructions of the Department of injustice, the witch hunt continues as it always will, with the radical left country destroying lunatics. I mean, it's all projection. He is the country destroying lunatic and the one who espouses injustice. But if you kind of decipher his maniac bizarre language, I think that dovetails with the

further investigation on the financial entanglements by Donald Trump and the financial entanglements are inextricably intertwined with the documents. And because as I said before, even if it's not a direct quid pro quo per se of here, Saudi royal family, here are the documents, the mere fact that in a negotiation to have the leverage is a powerful thing. So the mere fact that one can say, hey, you know, I still got these documents, let's enter a business deal, wink, wink, wink, whether you actually show the documents or not, is not necessarily even the point. The mere fact that you possess nuclear secrets gives you power beyond any American citizen

or any citizen of the world. And that's why he wanted these things. He wanted these things because he is a malignant, narcissistic, the greediest, money-hungry, and horrible business person cheater in the world. And to use a phrase you've used often, accurately on legal AF, he thinks of everything not only narcissistically, but transactionally. Everything's a transaction. Everything's a lead some way to a business deal. This is the grip, right? Look, we've had presidents that have made money when they left office.

God love them. They set up institutions, they set up foundations. It's usually for the public good, public interest. Yeah, they write a book. Yes, Obama and the others charge to half a million dollars for their speeches when they first came out to make some cash I get it, but that's not what we're talking about We're talking about the corruption of power and using the position of the presidency both while you were in office to curry favor with foreign leaders

It to further your business interests using Jared Kushner primarily as the person to do that and then after you left Here's a great graphic. We just put up our great producer, Salty, I put up showing this, the session was close relationship between the Saudi government and in that region. And now that the capital markets, the legitimate capital markets in the United States are primarily closed to the Trump Organization because of the Manhattan DA getting a 17 count felony conviction against them for tax fraud, meaning they can't go to any of the banks

that are in the paper, the ones that are still around, they can't go to those banks because no board of directors are underwriting department in a bank in the United States or a global one is gonna lend them money, which means they have to go, where a lot of people go, to alternate sources of capital in the Saudi Arabia, in Dubai, in that region, and you know, and you know who you're dealing with there.

And if you have things that you can trade, transactionally, like you've all identified, not trade secrets, that's corporate espionage. Presidential top secret classified information and maps in order to turn a buck. That's what we're talking about. But I think you're right. I think there must be a fourth or fifth grand jury because I can't naturally fit them in to any of the live golf Saudi Arabia connection, which you and I have done hot takes on in the past.

I can't naturally fit it into any of the existing ones that we know about. Yeah, I think the question is, do they need to open up another grand jury? Can there almost be, it wouldn't technically be called a sub-grand jury, but within the mandate of a specific grand jury that, say, is investigating the theft of documents, the connection between that and the foreign influence maybe as I said, inextricably intertwined and fall under that same mandate. But folks, this is why facts matter.

This is why, as the might of such sweatshirts as truth is golden because to your point, Popok, what the Maga Republicans do in all of these things is try to conflate the reason that they go after someone like a hunter Biden, for example, or the Clinton Foundation, the way they do, or Obama, the way they do, or spread these vicious defamatory lies with fake whistleblowers about Biden bribery. It's because they're telling on themselves. And if they could through

their propaganda echo chambers, spread these lies, spread all of these confusion, Americans are just left with the impression that corruption is an issue on both sides. And it's equal on both sides. And therefore, it's all just screwed up. So therefore just let a strong man come in and basically take control and an authoritarian like way. It is the tactic of the despot. It is the tactic of the authoritarian, but folks, the emperor has no clothes. And that is the biggest understatement here when it comes to the fascist wannabe emperor Donald Trump because over the past two weeks the E. Jean Carroll federal case

has been in full force and effect in Manhattan federal court where the trial has been taking place. Donald Trump has been nowhere to be seen, but of, we knew that Donald Trump was going to be too big of a coward to show up. What I had not fully predicted was how big of a coward he is. I should have predicted it that he was going to actually flee the United States of America and go to Ireland and Scotland. We'll talk about that when we come back from this quick break. This show was sponsored by BetterHelp. It's so easy to get caught up in what everyone else needs from you.

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You haven't tasted or seen honey like this before. So indulge and try some honey with superpowers with Manicura. Welcome back to legal AF where we last left off. We were talking about what a big cow or Donald Trump was to flee to Ireland and Scotland. And when you think about what his plan was here, Popok, it is such a, it is so emblematic of just what a trader loser he is and a microcosm of how he was when he is, when he was in the White House. And it just pains me to even have to recall for a moment that there was a time when that took place because his plan here was, look, I need to come up with an excuse for my base about why I'm not at this trial. So let me tell them, I'm just a big business person. And

I've got work to do in Scotland and Ireland to open up this golf course. So that's what he did went to Scotland and Ireland. There's these photos of him. He had nothing to do there. Like it wasn't like, he like hired his own bagpipers, you know there to like play for him as he left the plane It was like no one was welcoming him He had no real reason to be there other than he was trying to not be there in The Manhattan Courthouse where he should have been it's a civil case So he's actually not required to show up, although the empty seat probably makes a big statement But here was part of his plan to Pope and judge Lewis Kaplan called him out, which is right when the evidence

Finished right as the parties rested their case Then Donald Trump was in Ireland and he told the press I got a head back right now because I got a testify I got a confront E. Jean Carroll right now. And he did that on purpose knowing the case was over. He missed it. The two weeks of the trial, it was about five or six days of actual testimony, but the case was done. So what his whole plan was, was he was going to fly back and then he was going to say,

I came all the way back from my big business trip. I wanted to testify in this Clinton appointee, Judge Lewis Kaplan wouldn't let me testify. I flew back and he shut down the case. That was his plan. And Joe Takapina, his lawyer, had to then, because Takapina is used as a pawn. Taki Takapina is used as a pawn. And so he had to even tell the judge, Judge. This is what, and a direct quote from Takapina.

You know what I'm dealing with here, please. You know what I'm dealing with. Takapina actually said that to the judge. And the judge says, I know I'm not accusing you of outright defrauding this courtroom. And I hear you're representing to me that you wanna rest your case, I'm not accusing you of outright defrauding this courtroom. And I hear you're representing to me that you want to rest your case meeting, your case is over, you're not putting on any witnesses.

But Takapena, I'm not saying you're a liar, but I have issues with your client. So I'm going to give him until Sunday at five Eastern time to say if he wants to testify so that there could be no doubt that he had a fair opportunity if he wanted to testify here. It was a brilliant move by Judge Lewis Kaplan, but that was Donald Trump's plan. Winy, victim, Trump. Yeah, it is a masterstroke as you identified it by a judge Kaplan because I've never seen it. In 32 years of doing this, I've never seen a judge in a civil case, whereas you rightly say, the party does not have to be there, right? Empty chair. and the lawyer has already informed the judge that they rest and they're not putting him on he will not be witnessed in the case but then the judge

and his law clerks caught the Ireland comments which as you said were you know all this the S crocodile tears about I want to go but they won't let me in the judge has really okay notwithstanding the fact that your your lawyer told us he's that you don't want to go, but they won't let me in. And the judge says, really, okay, notwithstanding the fact that your lawyer told us he's that you don't want to appear and you waive your right to appear and testify live in this courtroom, he did Joe Takapina a solid. A lawyer who he gets a lot of flack from Joe saying that the judge doesn't like me. Well, Joe, he did you a solid because,

at least for a bar complaint or an ethics violation, because you told the court that your case rested and your client was not going to testify and waived his right. And the judge said, well, that's not what it looks like from Scotland and Ireland. So I'll give you until Sunday. And now it's great.

Now draw a line under it because we're never going to see Donald Trump. Anybody that thinks now this is going to lead any of his listeners and followers that wander on to our podcast In one way or the other. I let me let me tell you now Prick's it just to manage your expectations You are not gonna see your fearless leader testify live in the courtroom in E. Jean Carroll's case and on Sunday at five o'clock or five o'clock Oh, one Well, either better me or Karen are gonna do a hot take to tell you that he's not he's not showing up and here's

Well, I'll salty put up a document that says he's not showing up okay so that's it. That was all a charade for for whatever. I love the fact by the way he went to Ireland after Joe Biden went to his ancestral his ancestral home of Ireland. Donald Trump being from I think Germany or wherever. Trump is the original family name. Why he had to dig that one shovel dirt to open up the golf course? Like I mean there was some snarky comments about that comparing that to Ivana Trump being buried at

Bedminster will leave that for another time. I'll let people fill in their own joke there. But let's talk about how Eugene Carroll's case wrapped up because it really is to the playt in every way, shape, or form. Every way that you and I talked about, Joe Takapina playing a year 2000 playbook that works in criminal court to get people off of rape charges does not work in 2023 against an 80-year-old woman who has corroborating evidence that a really bad sexual assault happened to earth the hands of not president Donald Trump, but as Lisa Burmbach, one of her witnesses said, a man about town, loud, named Donald Trump, who's developer who had a history of being harassing the women, that Donald Trump, not a former president. That's who that's what we were dealing with in the 90s.

All of her witnesses, the two major corroborating witnesses, which are up here for people that are watching on the screen, which is Lisa Birdbuck, who's authored 70 books, including one where she went to Mar-a-Lago before the attack and interviewed Donald Trump for two days in Mar-a-Lago because she knew Donald Trump. And Carol Martin, a well-respected 20-year journalist who was the nighttime anchor for the local CVS affiliate in New York. Even when Burnbock was cross-examined by Get This Bend, Perry Brand. Remember, we talked about Perry Brand 72 hours before the trial?

They parachuted in this Kansas City senior lawyer to handle something. We thought, okay, Lord knows what he'll be doing. That's what he's doing. He crossed exam at least a bird-bucked the author and he did it terribly. He did it so crickly and terribly that even the judge got a laugh out of the jury. Now look, to be fair, we're watching the jury for jury science and to figure out how they're doing. Based on reporters who are in the room, Takapena, Haba, Brandt are doing terribly. The jury is completely focused and riveted by E. Jean Carroll's testimony and that of her witnesses. They are ignoring body language wise, Joe Takapena and his team, which has really been Joe Takapena, Chad Segal

in his office. Another man named Perry Brandt, do you see the theme here? Lots of white guys who are, you know, doing the old playbook from the 2000s, abusing the woman who was abused. That's going overtarily, apparently, in the courtroom. Alina Habba hasn't even gotten out of the starting blocks. And I don't expect to see her. I don't, if you don't give her a witness, there's been 21, I think there's been 21 witnesses

or maybe 14 witnesses. Whatever the amount of witnesses are already. If you don't give a lawyer a witness, you can't put them in the closing argument because the jury doesn't know who you are and you haven't built credibility with them. So we are not going to see Alina Habba. She's not getting up to do the closing, having done nothing in the case. It's either good. It's got to be Joe Takapina.

They're not going to have Perry Brand close. So Takapina, everything backfires. He goes after Carol Martin, for instance, about text messages that were embarrassing to Carol Martin that she wrote to family members that got that got subpoenaed, I guess, in discovery, in which she is a little bit critical of E. Jean Carroll. Basically saying, you know, E. Jean Carroll is, you know, you know, she's, she's, I don't want to say making a meal out of this. That's, so that's, that's, that's disparaging. But she was disparaging in her emails and text messages about E. Jean, who's a friend of hers, about how she's handling all of this. But one of the texts that she wrote that

backfire on Joe Tech, being a cross examination, said, I had a conversation, a small conversation with somebody 25 years ago, and now I'm embroiled in all of this because she's getting attacked and her family's getting attacked by Trump supporters. So when Robbie Kaplan, the master trial strategist whose law firm is handling this, got up and did redirect, she said to Carol Martin, right, you, this is an email in which you confirm that you had a conversation about the rape 25 years ago, with, at or around within a day or two of it occurring, isn't that right, ma'am? And she said, yes, Lisa Bernbach said it was within five to seven minutes of the attack,. That and she actually was the best at dating

the actual assault by Donald Trump. She said it was in the spring of 1996. You and I have always said 95 or 96 because that's been Eugene Carroll's memory. Lisa Burmbock said evening of spring of 1996 when Berkdorf Goodman, the department store had evening hours, later hours, and I had a call with her within five to seven minutes. A adrenaline was still pumping through E. Jean Carroll after what had happened, and because she was disoriented and

otherwise, she couldn't even recognize the facts that she was telling me were obviously a rape, and therefore, and there we go. So you have the thing that Donald Trump said that it says that Joe Takapin had told the jury in the opening that there wouldn't be corroborating evidence that this thing happened and that it happened and that she reported it to anybody. She did. The fact that she didn't report it to the cops or she didn't scream, which is old 1950s, 1960s type attack on, on E. Jean Carol. I don't think that it's going to fly

in front of this jury who has now seen all things E. Jean Carol, a really great E. Jean Carol telling the truth on the stand. Her friend saying that E. Jean Carol tells the truth and we're telling the truth about what happened. We have no reason to lie. And rather not be here is what Carol Martin said.

I'm not in a conspiracy. Remember, Ben, Takapena basically said at the beginning that Carol Martin, the do'scaster, Lisa Burmbock, the author and aging Carol were friends in a conspiracy to tear down a Donald Trump who politically they hated and they wanted to destroy. None of that was born out in the trial testimony. Something that the closing lawyer, who's either gonna be Sean Crowley from Robbie Kaplan's office, Mike or Robbie Kaplan, too, in the close,

is gonna remind the jury, because trial lawyers like you and me, Ben, we talk about the checks that were written in the opening, and whether they were cashed during the trial, and whether they were cash during the trial. And when they're not, then you hand it to, you hand Joe Takapina his head, and Donald Trump his head during the closing, and you nail them. Remember all the promises, Mr. Takapina, made to you? In fact, here's a transcript of all the things he said he was going to prove during the trial.

He didn't prove any of these things, and then they go clip, clip, clip, clip, clip, of all the, and remind the jury about all the trial. He didn't prove any of these things and then they go clip, clip, clip, clip, clip of all the, and remind the jury about all the witnesses and then they close without seeing Donald Trump. Other than the video testimony that you put up then in a great hot take of him testifying about mistaking E. Jean Carroll, the woman he said he wasn't his type as being his wife Marlem Aples in a photo. A photo that he said was fuzzy, we've all seen the photo, there's nothing fuzzy about that photo at all. That was just him lying under oath, and then also saying, you know,

attacking E. Jean Carroll again and again and again. So, you know, that's their case. And now the defense rests, they're not gonna put on Donald Trump. The plaintiffs' rest, they only had one witness band for the defense, and that witness got sick and couldn't testify. So no witnesses for the defense. They did the entire case by cross-examination.

All right, that's my view. What do you think? Well, you have the empty chair where Donald Trump has not showed up, and he's not going to show up. You have the deposition that you referenced of Donald Trump being played. Not the full deposition, but the portions of the deposition that the parties were able to introduce, but the most damning portions as it relates to Donald Trump, the jury got to see.

They got to see that portion where he confused E. Jean Carroll and thought it was Marla Maples, who he then also said that Marla Maples was his type. And there was this other moment too, where as part of the deposition, Trump was shown the access Hollywood, or you got to listen to the access Hollywood tapes, where he said that when you're a star, you could do whatever you want to do and grab women in their genitals. And the question that was asked to Trump is, do you believe that's true? And Trump said, well, either unfortunately or fortunately, it is still true. And it was a remarkable moment that I don't think is getting all that much attention, but Trump said, or fortunately, how could you look at the access Hollywood tapes and then

be asked, do you believe that when you're famous, you can do whatever you want to do and grab women by their genitals against their will. And then you go fortunately, unfortunately or fortunately that that is true. I mean how horrific can you be? And I don't think the jury is fully aware yet that Trump is actually not testifying. I think they're going to fully find that out on Monday. And in a civil case like this, just to be clear, because I see in the chats, I see in the comments, I want there to be no confusion about what the standard is and what the voting is, because this case will go

to a jury likely on Tuesday. Closing arguments will finish on Monday. It will go before a jury possibly Monday afternoon, but the jury will start deliberating almost certainly on Tuesday. And I think as early as Tuesday afternoon, I think Wednesday, the latest Thursday, the absolute latest, we will have a verdict next week. I could almost certainly guarantee you that unless something remarkable happens, which I just don't see, taking place, it has to be unanimous in federal court, unanimous. Meaning it has to be 9 to 0 in favor of e.g. in Carroll for e.g. in Carroll to prevail in this case. Now, the standard is preponderance of evidence, meaning if the scales of justice

just tilt slightly in favor of one party, they win the case. So if it's just 51, if the weight of the evidence is just 51% E. Jean Carroll, 49% Donald Trump, you as a juror have to find for EG and Carol. It is not beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a significantly higher standard that is used in criminal cases. So when everybody asks you, it's 9-0 unanimous, but the standard that is applied is preponderance of the evidence. And look, based on all of the weight of evidence that I've seen, when you think about the preponderance,

I believe that they've showed beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the higher standard, but the standard is a lower standard, preponderance of evidence. I think E. Jean Carroll's lawyers made that case, and I think they're going to point out in their closing arguments. Here's why too. They didn't put on any evidence. They put on no evidence. So if you have to weigh the evidence, weigh all of the evidence we showed you, none of the evidence that they've showed you. And they haven't done anything to rebut the evidence. Now there's a number of weird things that could

always happen in a jury deliberation, especially here because you have not just, doesn't have to be unanimous, but not to confuse you. The jury in this is anonymous, meaning that normally you get to know the names of jurors. When you get to know the names of jurors, you get to do some things that whether you're supposed to do or not all lawyers do it in jury selection, which is you run the social media searches on them and you try to find out maybe if they're not telling you everything by looking at things that they may have posted or they liked, because it's anonymous, because of Trump's threats.

My own view of that is that actually helps Trump more than it helps the E. Jean Carroll side of it, because you really wanna guard against that one potential stealth juror who can make this a hung jury in this situation. And so the only risk that I see is whether or not you got one stealth in there that you didn't know during jury selection. Popoca gave you the final word on this one.

No one will move on to the next stop. Yeah, I think you got it exactly right. It's she gets the benefit of the preponderance, which is really just get one. And we know there's one on there based on, it's anonymous, but we did get some demographic information, socioeconomic information about them. We know where they work, how old they are, male or female, and we know where they get their new sources from, and one of them in particular,

which is everybody's a little bit on our side of the aisle, is a little bit worried about, is the guy that said he only gets his news from the internet, from podcasts and primarily right-wing podcasts. So he's probably not watching League of Legends right now or the Midas Touch Network. But look, think about, I'll leave it on this, deliberations.

We've seen them on TV sometimes. It's not usually that interesting. So unless the movie is about the deliberations, like 12 angry men, a very famous movie, we don't usually get into the jury room even in movies and television, occasionally you do. But there that is where that's where the sauce is made. And you have the personalities, who's going to be the jury for person? Is it going to be just the person who happened to sit and seat number one, or are they going to elect the jury for person other than that? What's the personality of that person? What's their

background? And how do they help shape the dynamic of the interaction between the jurors as they go through the evidence? They ask for replays of certain evidence or things to be sent in, and they start talking to each other about the facts against the law and the burdens of proof and the evidence as charged by the judge as they send them off into the jury deliberation room. You and I only get to see that, frankly, even as practicing trial lawyers, if we go through the effort of using what's called a mock jury with a jury consultant, which I believe they're using at the Trump side, meaning we presented a version of our case to two paid sets of jurors usually, who get demographically or similar

to what we think the jury pool is going to look like in a jury, and we present our case. And then we put, and they know they're being, they agree that the deliberations will be filmed in the video that we'll be able to watch it. And we watch these mock jurors deliberate over the way we present at the case both sides and we go, oh crap, that piece of evidence did go well, that testimony, we got to work on that. Look how they're going off into one direction on that one witness in a way that we didn't think about. And that helps you recalibrate for the presentation of your case before a real jury. So what happens now against that

even that one person who came in as a right winger, right wing podcast person, the weight of eight other people on that person, okay? We'll see what happens. We could get a 90 vote or as you said, we could get a hung jury and we don't get, we don't get a verdict in favor. I don't think it's going to end up being eight. Let's just give the permutations. It's either gonna be nine oh and they rule in favor of E. Jean Carroll, nine oh and they rule in favor of Donald Trump, or it's gonna get hung up,

meaning they can't get one or two across the finish line, despite the judge giving them a charge to continue to deliberate, continue to deliberate, there's gonna reach a point later in the week if they got a hold out, where the judge is gonna throw up his hands in the week if they haven't if they got a hold out where the judges Gonna throw up his hands and say we don't we have a hung jury Yeah, three yep

No, and and then three quick points right there number one. I know E. Gene Carroll's lawyers did three mock juries and And they've explored the different permutations there. Number two, when it comes to jurors, jurors are not allowed to discuss their deliberations with other jurors until the case is finally over. So they could say hello to each other in the hallways and talk about their personal lives or whatever, but they're not allowed to discuss the case with each other

until they get to the jury room when the case is handed to them. And then one other point, Pope, Donald Trump's mother is from Scotland, which also just kind of also makes Donald Trump's anti-immigration policies just kind of extra egregious there as well. I want to talk about some of these developments taking place in the Manhattan district attorneys, ongoing criminal case against Donald Trump, and also want to talk about what's going on in Fulton County, Georgia, with the ongoing criminal investigation there. We'll talk about that when we come back from this quick break. This is Michael Popok, legal AF. Colt Turkey may be great on sandwiches, but there's a better way to break your bad habits.

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And now back to the video. And welcome back to legalaf. Let's discuss what's going on. And then Manhattan District Attorney district attorney's criminal case against Donald Trump, of course, 34 felony counts under New York state law for falsification and business records and connection with Donald Trump making hush money payments to stormed Daniels

and falsifying the records trying to claim that they were legal retainer fees for his former fixer, Michael Cohen, by the way, he's got a podcast here on the Midas Touch network called political beat down and may occult, but kind of an under the radar hearing with big implications was held, right? It was kind of build as a hearing to talk about

the protective order and whether or not the judge was gonna enter one, but they ended up talking about the trial order and whether or not the judge was going to enter one. But they ended up talking about the trial date and when the trial date's going to be and then Donald Trump's lawyers talked about how they were going to be filing this motion to remove the case to federal court, which I was like under what basis. And then they filed this motion to actually try to remove the case to federal court. And it was like as frivolous as I thought it was going to be. And ultimately, I think there's strategy there when they tried to transfer this case is, I think they wanted to find their own Eileen Cannon in the Southern District of New York

federal court house, the way Judge Eileen Cannon accepted jurisdiction on the search warrant issues down in Mar-a-Lago when she shouldn't have accepted jurisdiction with the thought being, and she eventually got overruled by the Court of Appeals in a scathing order, with the thought being, if we could delay this thing the way Eileen Cannon did for five or six months, even though that didn't really cause significant impact in what Jack Smith's doing. Five or six months, if we're talking about trial dates, like that we're being discussed at this hearing, February, March of 2024, you push this thing out,

closer to the election, and then you could basically claim, I can't have the criminal trial at all. So let's try to get a judge, and they were obviously trying to get Mary Kaye, Viscousel, the judge, who just made that favorable ruling for Jim Jordan and said, no person is above the law as it relates to Mark Pomerance, the former deputy district attorney special deputy district attorney who resigned under the Alvin Bragg 10 year and who was previously there and wanted the bigger crimes prosecuted.

First, well, she said, no one's above the law, and pomeranians need to testify. The legitimate legislative purpose by Jim Jordan to even interfere with the Manhattan district attorneys ongoing criminal case. And before that investigation is the fact that Congress just wants to pass a law to immunize Donald Trump and former presidents from any state law criminal cases that they engage in.

It's like, what? So if you actually look at the motion that Trump just filed to try to move this case to federal court, he like praises Judge Viscousel over and over and over again in it. And so that's clearly what he was trying to do there, but that didn't exact to go as planned Pope, so what happened with that motion and what happened with the with this hearing with the protective order, kind of like a mini gag order, they're not calling it that, but it's kind of what it is. Oh, you're right, Ben. Let's start with that. It's a gag order. He doesn't want to call it a gag order because he's Judge Mershan, who if you and I are right, it's going to be the judge presiding over

the criminal prosecution of Donald Trump by the Manhattan D.A.'s office, even after this new attempt to move the case, not away from Alvin Bragg as prosecutor, but to a new judge to preside over to federal judge fails. So the judge, we thought it was going to be a hearing based on everything that it was filed in front of the judge, Judge Mers Michonne, to talk about the emotion for protective order that the Manhattan DA's office had filed in order to stop Donald Trump from commenting publicly about evidence that had been presented to provide it to him by the Manhattan DA's office under their

due process obligations, constitutional obligations to turn over evidence to the defense that they that he should be stopped from commenting on that. He should stop from bashing and beating up potential witnesses or witnesses like Michael Cohen and others going after the judge going after the judge's daughter. He should stop all those things. And when the arrangement happened, the judge said, yeah, we'll talk about the evidence and and I don't want to gag, but we'll talk about a protective order at another time. And then that was the hearing.

And so what was before the judge at that moment was, what is the trial date going to be? And the judge said, depending upon what happens with your motion to take this case to federal court, which was announced in court by Todd Blanche, the lawyer for Donald Trump at that moment. Let's put that aside for a minute, Mr. Blanche. If this case stays in my courtroom, I like this case to be in February or March of 2024. And then I want you guys to go talk about when in February or March, that's going to be, which is we all know for the Midas Dutch Network and other places. That's right in the heart of primary season.

So right in the heart of primary season is going to be a criminal trial of Donald Trump prosecuted by the Manhattan DA's office. Once they picked that date, the judge told the lawyers, listen, I don't want any scheduling going on by the defendant in order to interfere with the trial date. Like, you'll know now when that date is, don't do any speeches or rallies or anything that you're going to come back to this court and claim you can't do the trial. So you need to clear your decks and black out those dates once you select them within February or March of 2024. The judge said, I also recognize that while he has no more rights than any other defendant in my courtroom,

he doesn't have any less rights either and he is running for president again. And I am mindful of his first amendment rights. So I don't want to call it a gag order, but then Ben, as you said, what he did was effectively a gag order. Donald Trump's starting now cannot mention any specific piece of evidence that has been provided to him by the Manhattan DA's office at all. He can talk generally about the case

and give sort of his defenses to the case, but he has to do that without commenting or bashing witnesses, prosecutors, the judge, the judge's family, or any particular piece of evidence. So he can say generally, I didn't do it, or they don't have a case, or, you know, their witnesses are not going to be believable, but they can't say Michael Cohen is a lying cheating, you know what? And he's a felon and he can't be trusted, they can't go after any. If they give him a piece of evidence that the Manhattan D.A DA has obtained and has and turned

it over to Donald Trump. He can't say, and this is a piece of evidence that I got from the Manhattan DA's office. This is the problem with it. Now, the judge says, if you have it independently, Donald Trump, if you turned it over to the Manhattan DA's office, if that's how they got it, then you can comment on it. That's how the judge thread the needle about that. Then the Manhattan DA's office, which was led for this argument by a sister district attorney, Catherine McCaw, who I assume is like the Karen Friedman Agnifalo of her day. I think

this would be Karen, our co-worker, if she was still in the office. So Catherine McCaw Karen knows well, it likes a lot. Got up and said, Judge, knowing the history of Donald Trump, and she went through again. this is now the third or fourth time the men at D.A. has put out the public record. All of the bad things that Donald Trump has done from beating up election workers like Ruby Freeman to going after prosecutors, to talking about death and destruction, to talking about and attacking the judge

and the judge's daughter, and all the things leading up to Jan 6th, all of that again. And then she said, you know, he's also got a history of not listening to his lawyers. I think there should be a hearing in which the protective order is read aloud to Donald Trump, who himself, not his lawyers, acknowledge its existence and the terms of the protective order and the judge says, I agree, were they're going to do a virtual hearing then, a Zoom hearing or some sort of platform in which Donald Trump pops up on the screen and the judge reads

allowed the protective order and the limits of it. Ask him if he has any questions, if he understands the order that's been entered by the court and Donald Trump's not going be able to just sit there and look like an idiot, he's gonna be a little yes to order. He goes, I do. Whatever he says, and that's it. He's now bound to this, he can't use, this is another judge like you liked about Judge Kaplan,

who is boxing in Donald Trump and not allowing him to say, oh, it would have testified, but I didn't get back from Scotland in time, or Joe Takapena lied, and I don't know why he but I didn't get back from Scotland in time or Joe Takapina lied. And I don't know why he said I wasn't going to be a witness. I was. Now, we can't say lawyers didn't tell me about every little ramification of the conditions of that.

So that happened. But the thing that kind of consumed the news cycle was Todd Blanch announcing in court and then then filing it. We had already put it up on the screen. What's called a notice of removal. Now, you and I as civil lawyers do this all the time, or involved with this all the time, usually in a civil case. If a case is filed in state court, and we saw a version

of this down in Florida when, uses it as an example, when Donald Trump wanted to attack the New York Attorney general, Leticia James, and say she had no jurisdiction. He filed a case in State Court Palm Beach County against her. It got, we call it removal. It gets removed with a filing of a notice of removal to federal court if there are the proper grounds for removal, which are primarily, if there is a, what's called a federal question,

that the dispute between the two parties implicates a question of federal concern and federal law and jurisprudence. We call that the federal question doctrine, or the parties are of two different jurisdictions, two different states or a state and a foreign country, and the amount and controversy is above $75,000. We call that diversity jurisdiction doctrine. He's claiming in his removal paper that, even though he admits that the allegations of the indictment against him for the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels happened while

he was candidate Trump and not president Trump. He says that even the Manhattan DA's indictment and the evidence that's been presented shows that the repayment to Michael Cohen, your podcast host, was made while he was in the White House. So Michael Cohen, this is now facts. We know this from Michael's testimony and for what's in the indict House. So Michael Cohen, this is now facts. We know this from Michael's testimony and for what's in the indictment. Michael Cohen laid out a $130,000, wrote a check to Stormi Daniels

lawyer and paid a tour for the Hush Money Payment. Michael Cohen testified that he got repaid over $440,000 related to that. And it was couched and hit and masked as a retainer payment, a legal retainer payment for services rendered as a lawyer, not true. He just laid out the money for Donald Trump and Donald Trump repaid him and then put a bonus on top of it and did it in payments.

Some are all of those payments of repayment happened while Donald Trump was in the White House's president. That's their argument then that this is a federal question because when he repaid fraudulently the money he happened to be doing it while he sat in the White House. When I looked at the statute, we'll put up the statute on the screen, when I looked at the federal jurisdiction statute, which is 28 USC 1442, a little one, which is their basis to try to get a case, you have to have been work, you had to be a federal

officer or federal person working under color of law in that office for which you are now being prosecuted in the state system for which the case should now be moved to a federal judge to preside over the state prosecution. That's the facts, Ben. Where are those facts here? What color of law was he operating on when he authorized the check to be written back to Michael Cohen after the hush money had already happened? Well everything he does backfires and all of his legal

strategies, you know, whether you call me professional rake stepper or a professional whole digger, he keeps on digging and keeps on stepping on rakes. Cause what he's essentially saying here is, I'm also guilty of federal crimes. So the fed should prosecute me too. And he's right. I mean, he should have been charged with federal crimes. I mean, he was largely protected by Bill Barr from that in real time. But Michael Cohen always says, hey, he should have been charged with that. They shouldn't have gone after me with the feds and not him.

But the very essence of the Manhattan District Attorney's case, these are cookie cutter state law claims, 34 felony counts under New York state law. And so there is not a federal hook here at all. But I think it's the ultimate irony is Trump's basically saying, look, my crimes are federal. The fed should go after me also. an irony is Trump's basically, he's basically saying, look, my crimes are federal. The Fed should go after me also. And so, you know, again, this case is going to be tried in the state court. This is going nowhere. Last word on this case, Pope, but because then we've got another state prosecution as well.

Well, I want to wrap up what you started with, which is the judge shopping. He wanted Mary K. Vokasil. Now, let me just explain quickly as a person who practices in the Southern District of New York, almost all of the judges of the Southern District of New York, because federal judges are first nominated by the senators of the state.

And New York is completely blue and has been blue forever. And the senators of New York have been blue, Democrat forever, and all of their nominees are people on our side of the aisle. So the Southern District of New York is not a favorable place for Donald Trump. I don't know why he thinks it is. He really must believe that Mershon, the judge in the state court, has it out for him, which there's been no indication that that's true at all based on anything that's happened in the courtroom or otherwise about Judge Mershon as a stand up jurist

and very well respected in the court system in New York. It doesn't like the fact that he presided over the fact that the jury, not Judge Mershon, convicted two of his major entities of 17 counts of fraud, but that's not on Judge Mershon. So, when he tried to get judge, so there's only like one or two judges that came in under Trump, one of a Mary K. Vokassil, who ruled, as you said, in favor of Donald Trump against Alvin Bragg, or in favor of Jim Jordan, I'm sorry, I got confused. And so it's Trump and Jordan show.

So he thought, oh crap, I'd like to get Vokassil. So he put in some language in that notice of removal, almost like an invitation for the clerk of the court for the clerk of the court to assign it to Vokasheel. Like please Vokasheel and the clerk of the court went, no, I'm doing random assignment. And his first judge that came up, like, you know, one of these lottery where the pin the the ping-pong ball pops up. It was Ronnie Abrams. Ronnie Abrams is an amazing, she's an amazing federal judge. She's the daughter of Floyd Abrams, a world-renowned civil rights lawyer, liberal. She's the sister of Dan Abrams, a very well-known legal commentator, an author. And she's the wife of a lawyer who prosecuted Donald Trump and investigated Donald Trump along with Mueller

for the Mueller report. So we were like, oh, good job, Trump, you're now with Ronnie Abrams to decide this. Now Ronnie Abrams about a half a day ago looked at it and said, you know what, appearance of impropriety, I don't like it. And she recused herself. See, there is a judge who's got ethics,

has integrity, unlike on our US Supreme Court, took one look at it, even though she doesn't technically after accused herself because of what her husband does at all, you know, but she did. So the wheel spun again and up came somebody worse for Donald Trump. And it is, if you and I were commenting on this before, it's Judge Hellerstein, Al Hellerstein, here's a great shot of, this sums up Al Hellerstein completely. I mean, look at that face, look at that hat. I mean, this guy is no nonsense.

He's a Clinton appointee, he's 90 years old, he's been on the bench for almost 30 years. And the cases that he's handled before this, if you want to know sort of if if if If past is prologue what's he gonna do here? He's handled 9-11 cases. He's handled agu grave cases But more importantly, he was the judge presided over the Harvey Weinstein case Where Harvey went down of course inflames for a rape charge and he is is the one that let Michael Cohen out of home confinement because he found that Donald Trump and Donald Trump's Department of Justice and Bureau of Prisons was retaliating against

Michael Cohen and should have let him out and let him out of home confinement. So he left, so he knows every as a 90-year-old jurist who's lived in New York his whole life He knows Donald Trump like the back of his hand. He knows that a handle cases like this one He knows removal and you know where he's at in his mind with with Michael Cohen They don't even need two things. I'll leave it on this They don't need a hearing to decide this in fact almost never in my career as a notice of removal File led to a hearing. It's done usually on the papers.

Usually there's not an evidentiary hearing even conducted. Alvin Brack can file a paper, but if the notice of removal is not appropriate on its face on the four corners of the document, the judge can just reject it and deny it. And if he denies it, it is not appealable to any federal circuit court. It dies in that chambers with the judge period. So we're not going to have an appeal. This is going to get ruled on really quickly, Ben. It could be within a week.

It definitely did not go as Donald Trump planned. And as I mentioned, there's now language in this removal that he thinks his crimes are federal as well. So maybe the feds are reading that and saying, you know what, maybe we should take a second look at that. But also talking about state prosecutions or at least state criminal investigations, an important update out in Fulton County, Georgia, where the lawyer for about 10 of these fake electors who was called out by Fulton County District Attorney Fawney Willis about a week or so ago, which we covered here on legal a F their lawyer responded and their lawyer in the motion that was filed the the lawyer representing these fake electors. There was total of 16 fake electors, this lawyer, DeBro represents 10 of these fake electors. They affixed their signatures to a false electoral certificate claiming that Trump won when Biden won and their whole claim is it was just a backup plan that we were doing in case he won the lawsuits that he filed, the frivolous lawsuits that he filed, where, by the way, we now know through other court rulings that he lied under penalty of perjury regarding evidence

of voter fraud that didn't exist, and he was aware of it when he signed these fraudulent declarations. But, to me, it's the lamest defense in the world for a variety of reasons. But, okay, then, if you were waiting as a backup plan, well, when Trump lost the lawsuits, then why didn't you withdraw it now? Y'all were waiting until the January 6th insurrection to go how you would have liked it to have gone and then you were part of the overall Conspiracy there, but look speaking of conspiracy phony Willis Fulner County district attorney. She's looking at Rico charges. She's looking at

Common plan and scheme between the fake electors, between some of the individuals who also happen to be fake electors, who went into election offices and stole election data as well, and gave it to the Trump campaign so they could manipulate it. But essentially in this filing

by the lawyer who represents the fake electors, the lawyer says, look, there is no conflict of interest that I have because, and I'm not saying that these fake electors can't cooperate because eight of the fake electors have already accepted immunity deals with the Fulton County District Attorney's Office, and they have provided information.

So why are you accusing me of not giving them, presenting them with your immunity deals? They've accepted them. So, there's a lot going on here, Popeyes, because these are diametrically different motions, right? On the one hand, you have the district attorney's office saying, at no time, at no time, did the lawyer for these fake electors tell the fake electors that an immunity deal was given. And now you have the lawyer representing the fake electors saying that eight accepted the deal. Those are very different stories. So what's going on here?

This is the one time I legal a F I'm going to tell you I'm not quite sure. But I did read all the motion practices you did. So we learned about this, and you and I did on legal AF, I did a hot take on it about Fawney Willis bringing to the court's attention a yet another motion to disqualify as you said Kim DeBrow. Kim DeBrow is a local criminal defense lawyer in Fulton County, Georgia, which just happens to be having her bills paid for by the Georgia GOP Republican Party, which is publicly disclosed. That's something I've found out on my own. But she also used to work

as a special prosecutor in Fulton County, Willis's office. I think before Fulton County, in county TA. And the whole conflict started because she and her then co-counsel, Pearson, Holly Pearson, represented almost all of the fake electors simultaneously at the same time, not all of them, but almost all of them, like 11 of them or 12 of them. And early on the judge says, I don't like that, especially the head of the GOP, the head of the Republican Party for Georgia, David Schaefer, he better get us a little lawyer. So Holly Pearson went off and represented just that guy, it still represents just that guy, and Kim DeBrab kept all of the rest of the 10 that she had with her. Now apparently we didn't learn about this until like a month ago,

at the end of the year, towards the end of the year, Faudi-Willis's office, office investigators, went to Kim DeBrow and said, because the judge had told them to offer an immunity deal to the fake electors to see if they're going to see if they're going to cooperate. And we were surprised that none of the 10, not one, thought enough about their personal liability and criminal jeopardy to take an immunity deal, which means they wouldn't be prosecuted for any of the crimes related to the fake electors scandal, which again is a group of people in December 12 of 2020 getting into a room, acting like they were real electors for the state of Georgia. After there had already been three certifications

of the election and recounts and hand recounts in Fulton County and other places, certifying Joe Biden won Georgia three times. They yet, despite that, they met in a room signed a certificate like they were electors and sent to the National Archive and sent it into the Senate chamber for Mike Pence to consider to buy their cult leader, Donald Trump, more time in their testimony.

Okay, so that's what they did. And they're all part of the Republican, Georgia Republican Party apparatus. They're secretaries, they're treasurers, they're the chairpeople, they run the county organization. And so these are big shots, big people at the top that all got put in. Not one of them thought it was a good idea to flip on Donald Trump and cooperate

with the 40-willisist office, so that was weird. And it turned out that that wasn't completely true. The department, the DA's office told the judge that when they interviewed in the beginning of April, two of the witnesses, meaning they were cooperating, that Kim DeBrow had two fake electors who wanted to point the finger at another one or two. So now she can't represent all of them

because now they're shooting at each other. It's a circular, circular fire squad. So they happened to ask these two, well did you know that we had a immunity deal on the table for you? And they said, no, we never do that. So Fawney Willis ran back to court and said, you know what, Judge, we got a ethical problem here.

They knew or should have known about that deal because we told their lawyers and they didn't know about it. Now in responding to the motion to disqualify, Kim Debroube believes that she's been sanitized and immunized from any problem with the disqualification because since that time in early April She's now disclosed in her filing this week that eight out of the ten of her witnesses of her defendants Clients are going to cooperate That's how you and I and the rest of the public learned that there as of yesterday, there are eight cooperating fake electors at the highest level of the Georgia Republican Party

who are now sitting with with Fawney Willis' investigators and are cooperating and are giving statements of testimony that will be used as part of what? A part of Fawney Willis' master conspiracy, civil rico racketeering influence and corrupt organization act mob, mob, uh, uh, uh, play mob, uh, prosecution, which will tie in if we're right, and she's going to bring this case, we believe based on her own press conference, her own filings. She's going to be bringing this to the regular grand jury in the July regular grand jury. They meet every two months or the September one by the end of September. You and I, I think both believe there's going to be a regular grand jury, a return of an indictment against multiple people now with these cooperating witnesses firmly in her back pocket against people like Donald Trump at the center, Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, maybe Lindsey Graham, because he was involved with a couple of phone calls, the fake electors,

which encompasses all of the different thrusts of the election interference that are at the heart of Georgia. The phone call from the multiple phone calls by Donald Trump to elected officials, speakers of the House, the Secretary of State to try to get convinced them to flip the election, steal the election from Joe Biden and send it over to him. The ones that Mark Meadows participated in, Rudy Giuliani running around the state holding fake hearings, trying to pressure with lawsuits that had no merit to try to turn the election. Lindsey Graham phoning in from his Senate chamber, wherever he was, phoning in to try to find,

you know, throw out mail-in ballots that were properly cast. All of that can fall under the rubric of account for civil rico conspiracy and these eight people now cooperating. So it's interesting like what's going on with Kim DeBrowe with its qualification motion and the ethics. I didn't care about that. I was like there are eight cooperating fake electors who are now sitting with investigators for her office as she builds her Rico case going to a grand jury in July and September. For me, then that was the takeaway. So roll up your sleeves. This is going to be exciting. This is never going to be a dull moment from here on out on legal AF.

Although I don't think there was any dull moments before, but we're going to be kept very, very, very busy breaking down these fairly complex cases in ways that I just think make complete sense and tying together all of these cases and how they all fit into this one overall. Importance of holding up law and order and making sure that law and order truly means that and is not just said in some performative way but we need justice in our justice system. That's what we stand for here on Legal AF. That's what the Legal AF or Community stands for. So we thank you all members of the Legal AF community, all the Legal AFers.

It is just incredible to see all of those who are there with, they're with us from day one still here, seeing the community grow and grow and grow as we break records for how many people are watching these live and how many people watch and listen on audio and on YouTube. So if you're watching this on YouTube do us a favor. This is one way you can help subscribe on our audio podcast as well wherever you get audio podcast just search legal a F and make sure you subscribe there to the audio podcast for those who just listen on the audio podcast make sure you subscribe on YouTube as well make sure you check us out at patreon.com slash minus touch go to store.mitistouch.com for the best pro-democracy gear.

We love you. Thank you so much for watching this. I'm Ben Myselfis joined by Michael Popak. Thank you all legal aeifers and shout out to the MidasMidier. you