Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump LEGAL DISASTERS Follow CATASTROPHIC DEBATE

Episode Date: September 15, 2024

Ben Meiselas and Michael Popok are back for the weekend edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On tap? Did Kamala’s debate performance just win her the election, as her national polling lead crosses the magical +5 point threshold. Did Trump just commit securities fraud by pumping up his stock price just before taking out a large loan against it; Will Alina Habba be sanctioned and possibly lose her law license for defrauding a client in yet another Trump hush money cover up case; how badly has Trump’s lawyers performed in his New York criminal matter and in their approach to sentencing; what’s left of the Georgia Trump indictment after some recent pivotal court rulings, and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Thanks to our sponsors: Miracle Made: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://TryMiracle.com/LEGALAF and use the code LEGALAF to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Rhone: Head to https://Rhone.com/LEGALAF and use code LEGALAF to save 20% off your entire order! Oracle: Take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/legalaf Zbitoics: Head to https://zbiotics.com/LegalAF to get 15% off your first order when you use LEGALAF at checkout. SimpliSafe: Protect your home with 50% off a new SimpliSafe system, plus a free indoor security camera, when you sign up for Fast Protect Monitoring. Just visit https://SIMPLISAFE.COM/LEGALAF Naked Wines: Join the Naked Wines community and head to https://NakedWines.com/legalaf for 6 bottles of wine for JUST $39.99 with shipping included Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the game. to wager Ontario only gambling problem call connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BedMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This episode is brought to you by CIBC. From closing that first sale to opening a second store as a business owner, you've hustled to accomplish a lot, but the rewards don't stop there. When you earn two times more points on things that matter to you and your business, easily track those business expenses and experience flexible Aventura rewards, you'll realize how much more rewarding your hustle can be.

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plus resources for artists and athletes. Learn more at rbc.com slash support youth. You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know.

Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to be the ultimate soccer parent? Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. This week we saw on display the power of the prosecutor versus the predator. Vice President Kamala Harris prosecuted her case

in front of one of the biggest debate audiences in history against Donald Trump. She manipulated him, exposed him, put forward her vision to bring America forward. I want to break it down. Donald Trump is still reeling from it. I want to just talk briefly about it simply because it showcases, I think, the importance of shows like this and the power of prosecutors putting forward evidence and the reaction by Donald Trump and MAGA.

Donald Trump took a pity trip to California Rancho's Palos Verdes so he could be around one of his golf courses where he held this bizarre presser. The question is, did he commit securities fraud or could he potentially be stepping into a future securities fraud violation for the statements he made about his stock DJT, the stock symbol for Trump media? We'll break that down. We should also talk about the secret settlement entered into by Donald Trump's lawyer, Alina Habba, for some horrific conduct that was alleged against her for potentially grooming a victim at bed Minster, befriending

this victim who experienced a great deal of trauma and manipulated the victim to enter into a settlement with her assaulter. We'll break that all down and we'll talk about what we know about this secret settlement. Then I want to compare developments in New York versus Georgia in the Trump cases. So in New York Trump was handed back-to-back losses. The highest state court in New York upheld the gag order against Donald Trump and in the federal court system, the second circuit court of appeals, rejected Donald Trump's attempt for an emergency stay or to stop the

proceedings removing the state court proceedings where he's set to be sentenced in November to federal court. In Georgia, Trump had slightly better luck. He got some of the charges against him dismissed by Judge Scott McAfee, who reached that conclusion on the grounds of the Supremacy Clause, basically saying that those are the types of claims that the DOJ should bring, not state prosecutors, but a number of the state claims against Donald Trump remain. We'll break this all down on Legal AF. Michael Popock, how are you doing today, sir? I'm doing great, Ben. This is a momentous time for us here as we move out of September into October.

We finally, we're going to talk about the debate a little bit from our legal political perspective. a little bit from our legal political perspective, but we finally got what we were looking for in the support for Kamala Harris kind of seeping into that water table and that water supply, but yet showing up in the polls. The big number she had to get over, which she now has both with the Taylor Swift endorsement and just her performance on the debate stage on the one and only presidential debate where she kicked Donald Trump's butt up and down the ABC stage for two full hours and she would have gone longer had they allowed her to go longer.

No one in America thinks that Donald Trump won that debate except for potentially Donald Trump. The polling shows that at least she won by a 23 point margin. It may not be the worst debate performance I've ever seen by a presidential candidate, but I believe, but it's pretty darn close to it. Um, 53% of America thought that Kamala Harris won the debate. 24% thought that Donald Trump that that means that half of Maga did not think that he won that debate.

And now she's got that five point lead in national polling. Now, some people might be thinking, well, national polls don't matter, Popak, we vote state by state with an electoral college. Well, that's true. But pollsters and statisticians have always found and people that do this for a living. But once you hit the four to five point mark, a high water mark in a national polling, that's a proxy for how well you'll do state by state.

She was at one point, one and a half points, maybe two points leading into the debate and now has gotten that two to three point bump that we were expecting. And there's no going back because Donald Trump has decided he already got beaten with one end of the stick. He doesn't want to get beaten with both ends of the stick. So despite his spin room and I don't know, we don't need another debate, he's apparently

not going to do another debate. And that is advantage Kamala Harris, because she is making effectively her closing argument on a daily basis as only a former prosecutor can do. And as she closes the deal with the American people to explain who she is, she's done that already. Biography is established. CHOPs to be commander in chief and Madam President established.

Now she's filling in and backfilling policy, local interviews on local television with local papers and doing the interviews and doing all the hard things and policy papers and doing all those things while Donald Trump thinks he's going to be able to mean tweet his way to the White House with Laura Loomer and other alt-right podcasters as his main campaign advisors. Where is his professional campaign advisors? He's his own campaign advisors. Where is his professional campaign advisors? He's his own campaign director. He takes direction from Laura Loomer, an election denier,

9-11 denier who uses racist tropes on a regular basis, who gave him the cat and dog being eaten, the pet being eaten thing that he latched onto 26 minutes into the debate. This is a gassed campaign. He's quietly quitting. He didn't go back out on the campaign trail the way that Kamala Harris has with the wave of enthusiasm. He hasn't campaigned at all, and he's not going to be able to win this election. You said that that may not have been the worst, but it was up there on

the worst debates you've ever seen. I assume the worst one you're talking about is the 1840 debate between William Henry Harrison and Martin Van Buren when of course William Henry Harrison famously talked about eating the bison testicles. That was definitely the number one worst debate. You forget about that one right there. I'm of course making that up. That didn't actually happen in the debate.

This was a pretty poor debate. Let me tell you what Donald Trump is saying though. This was the worst debate, clearly Popeye. I mean, it was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. S and M. What could possibly be worse than a guy. They're eating your cat. They're eating your dogs.

And Donald Trump's behavior after that, just doubling and tripling down on showing how disqualifying anything he does should be towards any position at all, forget the presidency. Here's what he posted earlier in the morning. disqualifying anything he does should be towards any position at all. Forget the presidency. Here's what he posted earlier in the morning. ABC fake news has been completely discredited and is now under investigation. Do they give comrade Kamala the questions? It was three on one, but they were mentally challenged people against one

person of extraordinary genius. It wasn't even close as is now reflected in the polls. I won the debate. I mean, he's losing in all of the polls and he's actually losing his mind right now. Um, there were more posts like that. He posted people are saying that comrade Kamala Harris had the questions from fake news, ABC, I would say it is very likely. And then you have all of the people closest to him, like Laura Loomer, making

posts like this interesting choice of earrings tonight closest to him, like Laura Loomer making posts like this. Interesting choice of earrings tonight. And then trying to suggest, not suggest, state that Vice President Kamala Harris was wearing an earpiece in her earrings, giving her the questions in advance. Or another big MAGA influencer, Matt Wallace, saying, inside report! ABC allegedly set up distractive lighting aimed at Trump's podium to make him look left to right repeatedly during the debate and artificially increase his heartbeat. I mean, this is real stuff that they're saying Pope.

And by the way, Donald Trump is saying it. This is Donald Trump last night when he was speaking at an important swing state, he's speaking in Nevada. Here he is in Las Vegas and he's like, Yeah, I think she got the questions in her ear. He's like citing this stuff here play this clip. Did she get the questions? So I hear she got the questions and I also heard she had

something in the year and then something in the air. No, Kamala do this. Say it this way, Kamala. OK, be quiet. Too many people watching. You know, if you actually look at the data, though, who got the last word in the September 10th, 2024 debate? If you want to know, like actually the facts,

Donald Trump got more of the first word and he got all of the last word in every question. And I remember there were some moments where he would just interject, they would put his mic back on, which frankly was fine because it showed how psychotic he was. So I wasn't gonna keep on talking, you know what I mean? The law of holes, you know, you're supposed to stop digging,

but Donald Trump digs further. But he got the first word and the last word, all of the last words, and he gets more of the first words and all the last words. And then sometimes like Vice President Kamala Harris would go like, Hey, can I just try to respond to that? It's false. And like they wouldn't have heard do it. Then they would move on to the next question where he would get the last word, but whatever. He lost the debate. And the reason why I want to bring this up and the legal show, it's the intersection of law and politics though, is because you and I have always said, you know, in a court of

law, admissible evidence is what's required. You can't have hearsay on top of hearsay or hearsays you generally excluded, except in rare exceptions. The way the MAGA and Republicans run political campaigns, it's not just hearsay, but it's insane hearsay over and over again, spreading false propaganda to divide us. And even when we see something where if a jury was selected to actually evaluate that debate as who won, who lost, you know, and you were to pick the right jury that was not propagandized, you would have to

select vice president Kamala Harris. And if you say that's not the case, then you're just not being honest. There's a real deep issue. You don't believe the sky is blue, then you believe the sky is actually green. And we have to exist in a world of objective facts. And when you and I set out to create this show,

it was to cut through the crap and bring people objective facts. And that's really why I just wanted to highlight that at the beginning. I think, no, I think it's, it's important. We'd be remiss if we didn't lead with a debate, which may have been the most pivotal game changing moment in the entire campaign, other than Kamala Harris, um, becoming the new nominee just on your, a couple of your points. There's want to touch on before we move on to our next segment, the times that a good survey today of word, just words and phrases that Donald Trump has latched onto. And I and in this

list, starting on July 22, through September 5, he said the words comrade Kamala Harris or something like that, about 150 times, day after day after day. Comrade Kamala, comrade Kamala, over and over and over and over and over again, trying to get it as an earworm into people's minds. Speaking of earworms, I'm sorry, I don't usually laugh out loud, although I like to on this show. I had to in a couple of your things where it is there now,

the Republican MAGA are so pathetic that they think lighting is the reason that Donald Trump lost. And I want to address the Tiffany earrings things. And I find a level of projection here that even for Donald Trump is laughable. There has been a rumor for a long, long time. And it's been in the press that Melania, Melania, I was a Melanie that Melania Trump has had a long time affair with the head of security at Tiffany's, the building directly next to adjacent to Trump Tower. If you go walking down Fifth Avenue on 57th and Fifth, there's Tiffany's headquarters, flagship store, and there's Trump Tower.

There's a long bit of rumor, his name's in the paper, I'm not going to mention it, that she has had an affair with him. I find that to be the height of laughable. I'll tell you who knows the Tiffany earring collection really, really well is Melania and Donald Trump. However, what the vice president was wearing in her ears is a pair of, I'm gonna do a plug, a pair of Tiffany hardware pearl earrings.

How do I know? My wife has the identical pair, which I bought her when we were recording four years ago. If you look at prior pictures, Kamala Harris has worn the Tiffany pearl earrings with a matching necklace at event after event after event, including at the Juneteenth event this year where she sat with the same earrings. It's not an earpiece. Anyone and Laura Loomer knows it. She's just creating disinformation campaigns where she pulled up a catalog photo of a German company's earring earpiece Bluetooth thing. And I'll give credit to the German company because they saw an opportunity that they

didn't want to miss where people were talking about their product. My favorite part was they didn't say that she was, that Kamala Harris was wearing their product. They couldn't say that. They said, it's interesting that this issue has come up about whether there's, and we're going to be making, this was directed to Donald Trump, we're going to be making a male earring earpiece

so that he can wear, I guess, in the next debate. That's one. Secondly, from a lawyer advocate, you and I stand on our feet and do hot takes and first takes of openings and closings and cross-examinations for a living. I've been doing it for 32 years and you for a long time as well. If anybody watching that debate thought that the questions were being or topics were being given to Kamala Harris, a fourth grader would have been able before that debate to say that these were going to be the topics. The pullout in Afghanistan, the border crisis, the issue of reproductive rights for women,

economic policy and trade tariffs and Ukraine. The rest of the stuff that came up had nothing to do with, I assure for those that didn't get a chance to watch it, I assure the American people and globally of the rest of our audience. There was not a question where the natural answer to that question was eating pets and cats because of democratic policy. That came out of the weird stew of Donald Trump's brain. There was not a question where Donald Trump would naturally answer by embracing dictators as a fanboy moment and a bromance with Victor Orban of

Hungary and Putin and blow kisses to both of them during the debate. That was not a question that was asked. That was Donald Trump getting, as you have there, the last word and those last words being what this shows you how unwell-demented and unhinged he is. We now know why, speaking of Laura Loomer, who's an election denier, a 9-11 denier, who said that she doesn't want Kamala Harris in the White House because she thinks

it'll smell like curry. Okay, so she's racist, misogynist, and all of that. She was also on the plane to the debate with Donald Trump. She was part of his debate prep. She went with him, despite being a 9-11 denier, saying it was an inside job. She went with him to Pennsylvania for the 9-11 ceremony. Okay. And then when that came out and Donald Trump was challenged, she said, well, Laura Loomer, I can't control Laura Loomer. She's her own person. She has been too much to the chagrin of the

professionals on Donald Trump's team, whoever they are, she has become a leading campaign advisor for Donald Trump. And lastly, Ben, when Trump decided in an unprecedented way, so many unprecedented things with Donald Trump and unprecedented things with Donald Trump, to go into his own spin room after the debate, which shows he knows he lost. He went in to do his own spin with the media. Okay. Laura Loomer was with him. And alongside in tweeting out and social media posting in real time was a group of all right podcasters and social media people like DC Drano and Joe Prasobjack, he a Pizzagate fame, who are all on the Trump campaign payroll, who are responding in real time to the debate, trying to influence people's perceptions of it.

That's who Donald Trump has gotten into bed with, who he thinks is going to help win his election. And how did that go for you, Donald? You lost by mainly 23 points, overwhelmingly by Kamala Harris. In the legal cases when a judge's wife would be attacked a la Justice Ngoran in the civil fraud cases, where a judge's daughter would be attacked a la Justice Mershan in the criminal case, the person who would start the rumor, and it would be the same type of rumor that the family member of the judge created a Twitter

account and were posting things about Donald Trump, and then the Twitter account mysteriously then shut down. That rumor always originated from Laura Loomer. Laura Loomer would put out those statements. Then she would say things about the family members like, oh, evil bitch, evil this, evil that. Then Donald Trump would latch on to it because Loomer would package it as a report. It would go through the right wing kind of ecosystem and then Donald Trump would say look, there are reports that the judge's daughter is posting pictures of me behind prison cells.

There's the wife posted that she hates me. And all of that stuff was false. And if you recall some of our earlier reporting at the legal AF and the Midas Touch Network, the PR person for the court system would actually have to step in and issue statements because of the death threats that Loomer would cause to the family members saying these people don't even have Twitter accounts yet alone That is not their account and they don't have Twitter accounts and this isn't theirs And so Laura Loomer would actually originate that then Donald Trump for the past several months

We've been reporting on Loomer. I know the corporate media is just catching up to this, but we've been talking about Laura Loomer now for over a year, I would say, and our reporting really picked up on it around six months ago with these threats as the judges. And then Donald Trump would say at a lot of his events in the past, you don't want to be loomer. She's going to loomer you. You don't want to be loomer, she's going to loomer you. And those were threats directed at judges and his enemies being

loomer as she originates the conspiracy that's laundered through him as a report. He has plausible deniability, although it shouldn't be plausible. Um, it may perhaps to the corporate media it is, and then he goes and attacks people on that basis and then they engage in these stochastic, then his followers engage in the stochastic terrorism against him. So I want to set this up though,

and then get your take on it, Popak. So Donald Trump stock, Trump media, I want to pivot to that topic. Crashing over the past few weeks. It was down 15 points, then kind of was right around that $16.24 mark. It was going down 12% every day. The company itself is losing hundreds of millions of dollars. I managed to get my hands on the original investors deck as well of Trump Media, which showed its projections, like $850 million in revenue projected for 2024.

It's going to be lucky in my opinion, if it clears about $4 million in revenue, what its revenue projections look closer to is actually its losses. But also as we know, and people astutely point out, money just doesn't get lost, doesn't like disappear. Like it goes somewhere. So where is that money going when we say the company loses

$300 million, $400 million? Where is that actually going to? And so you should check out the report we did on the investors deck, because that we really went into the weeds there. But then all of a sudden yesterday, the stock went up 17% out of nowhere to $18.85. Well, I'll tell you what happened.

Donald Trump gave a speech. I'm going to show you the speech that he gave at his property in Ranchos Palos Verdes, where he made comments to move the market, to pump the market on his stock. And guess what? It pumped for that period of time. There was all of this suspicious trading going on. And so NASDAQ actually had to stop the trading of the, of this NASDAQ had to

stop the trading of the stock because of the, which it does from time to time. And it has the right to do with all of the stocks that trade on NASDAQ, where there's suspicious trading to avoid securities fraud taking place. And then Donald Trump made a post. Why is NASDAQ halting the sale of DJ Tay, of DGT? What right do they have to do this? Well, I wanna get into that.

I wanna get into more, but we gotta take our first quick break of the show. It's an exciting show. We're covering a lot of stuff. We're gonna cover Trump lawyer Alina Habba's secret settlement What's going on in New York and Georgia? But let's take that first break Michael Popeye. The dreaded wall of wine No, it's not a long lost House of Dragons episode It's that feeling you get and your eyes glazed over when you see rows and rows of random bottles of red and white wine at your local grocery or liquor store. I've stopped wasting my time acting like I know what I'm doing in front of the dreaded wall of wine. That's why I love our next sponsor,

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That means they are helping build this independent media platform. Let's keep growing together. We take a long time to vet our sponsors. Popak tries all of the product. We utilize the services. Jordy has us join the calls with the company or their reps. It's actually a pretty exhaustive process behind the scenes and the discount codes are in the description below.

It's one of the ways you can help grow this platform. The other way of course is through patreon.com slash legal AF, P A T R E O N dot com slash legal AF. Go and check that out. Before the break, I wanted to show a video of Donald Trump's speech in Rancho's Palos Verdes. Let's show that video right now. Let's play it. word. You know, when it opened, it went way high. But then the SEC gave us nothing but problems. We had to go through a long, long process with the SEC. But people think that

I'm leaving. That's why they're down. Because if I leave, you know, it's different if I leave, but I'm not leaving. I love it. I think it's great. Mechanically, it works the best. And again, I'm friendly with the Elon and the land would love me to come over to X. But I just, you know, I have a close to a hundred million people on X. I had 230 million people on X and then they shut me down. And I said, I'm not going to let that happen again. You know that I had hundreds of millions of people on X and Facebook and Instagram. I think more than anybody.

Zuckerberg told me at the White House, he said, congratulations, you're number one on Facebook. There's a number. So Michael Popock, he makes that statement and then he in typical Trumpy in fashion Starts attacking the Nasdaq as well because of the suspicious trading that followed him making those statements Then he goes why is Nasdaq halting the sale of DJT? What right do they have to do this? They have done it twice today What's going on? Are they taking orders from the SEC,

which for political reasons delayed us for an ordered amount of time, therefore hurting the stock very badly? I'm going to hold NASDAQ and maybe the SEC liable for doing what they are doing. If they do it again, we will move the stock to the New York Stock Exchange. It is my intention to own the stock

for a long period of time. In my opinion, it is the real voice of America, but it definitely is my voice and it will be for a long time to come. The interesting thing too, where he's standing in Ranchos Palos Verdes at that golf course, he also sued the city of Ranchos Palos Verdes for $100 million before. If you just talk about what we've discussed today, him losing the debate just so far in the first 30 minutes of show, him losing the debate, blaming it on earpieces and distracting light bulbs and three-on-one, he's giving a press conference in a city that he sued for a hundred million dollars.

He's talking about his stocks in ways as you'll describe that you're not really allowed to talk about stocks and publicly traded companies like that, then threatening to sue the NASDAQ and the SEC and then whining about this. This is all he brings, right? You see a pattern here, folks? Popak. Yeah. So first personal point of privilege, you and I know that that location

really well for Rancho's Palace Fair days, because back in October, you and I and our lovely wives had dinner together not there, but at a resort that was near there. And I know that because I had to do a u turn in front of that Trump exact spot where he was given that speech from. I wrote that down. I was like, oh shit, it's right where we were. Let's talk about the SEC thing, because of course he's completely addled.

And let's talk about the pumping and dumping aspect of it. I checked, because I'd done a hot take on this a week ago, to see whenever you have a large, you're a founding member and you have a right to sell stock in a lockup period, which is the limitation that you have to sell your stock. It could be as short as 30 days. It could be as long as a year or more. For Donald Trump, he couldn't sell his stock for six months.

He owns 115 million shares of the stock in his company. I think he owns 57% of his company shares. When in March, it was trading at $60 plus, we were saying, holy shit, this guy's going to be like a six billionaire off a company that, as you said, has a burn rate of millions and millions of dollars a month that they're not recovering. No business model to speak of. They don't have advertisers. I always joke that if you don't like our advertisers, go to Truth Social. There are no advertisers. There's no business being generated there.

And their only asset, Donald Trump, as you even saw in that own press conference, inadvertently with a slip of a tongue, says and acknowledges that he is the only asset that that company has and yet there's no exclusivity. He's willing to go over with his buddy, Elon Musk, and go over back to X, which is why in all the securities filings they say that the entire brand of the company is based on an 80-year-old soon-to-be two-time loser for President 34 felony count convicted guy. That's a problem and that's why it doesn't make any money. It doesn't make any money, but you're right. As you pointed out, the money's going somewhere and it's going

into the pockets of related entities and affiliates of Donald Trump and friends of Donald Trump and people that were early investors of Donald Trump. People are making money. It's just not truth social or the stockholders. So now the stock, as I've done, you and I both have done hot takes pretty regularly on this. I've got a Wall Street background. I worked as in-house counsel for a large Wall Street company. Won't name it. I'll just leave it at that. And here's what happens.

Lockup period is over before the lockup period is over, which is ending on the 19th of September, right around the corner. Donald Trump had a file. What's called a form for he has to tell the market in advance what his intentions are so that they're not shocked on the 19th by 115 million shares flooding the market. That stock went from $62 or $64 in March. It's now down almost 80% and it is hurtling towards its original starting price of $10 a unit. It's now at $16 or $17. I mean, that's an 80% drop. That's a 50% drop just since the debate. There's a 46% drop in the stock

price since the debate. There was a 20% or 30% drop in pre-market trading before the market even opened, just incorporating what the market watched in the debate, which was a loser in Donald Trump and Wall Street hates a loser. They also can smell one a mile away, brokers and traders, and they were like, sell, soon as the debate was over. The pre-market trading went crashed and it didn't really recover. Now, Donald Trump's asked at the press conference, talk about knowing a question in advance. I know who knew a question in advance. It was the Newsmax press conference and Donald Trump planted obviously a question to a reporter to ask him about the stock price and about whether he was going to be selling or not. Donald Trump did not file the form for. I looked before because

I wanted to do an update on the hot take, in the hot take world. he didn't do it. Now I laid out three paths for Donald Trump at or about the time of his pump and dump when he dumps his stock, because now even though it's it's down considerably because he has 115 million shares, it's still to him worth like 4 billion $2 billion. So it's it's gone down four billion, but even if it dropped to $10 a share, it's still be a billion dollar. If he sold all of his shares, if he sold all of his shares into the, into the market, he would crush that stock. Um, and he would just, he'd still make money, but everybody else would be crushed. That's where the securities

fraud and class action suits that you referred to come from. So since he's not going to be selling, we're now down to the other two things and really one in particular that I think Donald Trump is going to do because he needs the money. You and I have with biting our tongue and a hole in our cheek. I've done various hot takes about the flea market that is Donald Trump's business model. Bibles and sneakers and NFTs and trading cards and memoir, you know, it's just, he's running out of t-shirts and suits off his back. He's running out of stuff to sell.

And you know, and he's not making any new deals. That has been one of the underreported, not on the Midas Touch Network or Legal AF, but it's been an underreported fact that since the financial monitor has been put in place over Donald Trump and his business affairs for the last two years in the New York fraud case, who watches like a hawk everything that he does, he hasn't made any new deals. Other than abroad in Dubai and Oman, he's not making any new money in America. He hasn't built a new building,

he really doesn't build buildings anyway. He hasn't put his name on any new buildings. He's living off of old dollars. And those are drying up. And there's a lot of mouths to feed over there in the Trump world. You got Melania, you got Ivanka, you got Don Jr. and Eric. And then the other one, you got a lot of mouths,

you know, a lot of families that have to rely on this family office. So he's got to sell. He's got to get money or he's got to monetize or what we say, hypothecate off of his stock portfolio because he owes, he's going to end up paying over $500 million and running with interest to New York State and the people of New York State once that appeal is done. And he owes $100 million running with interest at this point to E. Jean Carroll. And then he's got other civil suits against him for other fraud that he's committed. So he can't just, he doesn't, we know from how hard it was for him to even find somebody to post a bond for him, how in shambles his finances are. So he needs the money.

So I think this is a long-winded way of saying, he's gonna get a loan. If he gets a loan against his stock, okay, at an exorbitant interest rate, he might be able to get 500 million. If I had to make a prediction, he's gonna get a three to five hundred million dollar loan from some consortium, some syndication of Wall Street types that are also supporting his campaign.

You can look it up and are in that business who are going to put together a group. It's going to be a Trump Wall Street bailout, one that he was never in favor of for America or the workers of America or the unions of America. He didn't care about the auto manufacturers or the unions there. He didn't care about bailing out and saving America's economy. But we're going to watch a Trump bailout in the form of a giant loan. The loan will not be seen by Wall Street. It won't hammer the stock price because, I mean, it could in the future,

but it won't immediately. But for him, the question that was never asked, because he didn't plant this question, it's not helpful to him, but should have been asked by the media at that press conference is, are you going to monetize your financial stake in any way, including in a giant loan that you'll have to disclose to the people. And then what is that? They just let them get away with all these platitudes and, yeah, I think it's a great place to be and whatever. But they should have asked them the more insightful question, which is, are you loaning against it? Who is the consortium that's going to be loaning you? Are you getting a bailout, Mr. Trump? And are you using your stock as assets for a future loan and leverage against your stock position?

That's the question that wasn't asked, but that we ask here at Legal AF. And that's really the whole debate about taxing unrealized capital gains over a hundred million dollars where if you can pump up a stock and then take out a loan against it and then not be taxed on that, should there be some sort of surgical way of doing it? And again, that's why Vice President Kamala Harris's plan is over a hundred million dollars. And I think what she's looking at there are the people who get loans against unrealized capital gains like Elon Musk's who use their stock as the collateral to take out loans and then to avoid tax consequences for that entire transaction where the average American, the hard-working

American would be taxed for all of the dollars that come in and then there's that disparity thus increasing the wage gap. I got a fact-check you though I'm sorry to do this in front of such a big audience, but there are some sponsors on legal AF. I mean, there are some sponsors, there's a lot of sponsors on legal AF. I see for me mocking you and doing the joke. That's what I get. There are some sponsors on Trump media. Who are they Ben? Non-Truth Social.

They are the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, for me mocking you and doing the joke. That's what I get. There are some sponsors on Trump media. Who are they Ben? Non-Truth Social. They are the assassination edition whiskey glass with Trump's image on it. They are the Trump defiant fist coin that you can get, assassination edition coin. There's the Trump mugshot coin that advertises, and then of course, they advertise the foreign mail order brides on Trump media. I'm not making this up. Those are actually basically all of the ads.

I stand corrected. You stand corrected. That is the business model that the leader of the Republican Party has built out. I want to show this clip though. This is as we pivot to the next topic, Alina Habba. Alina Habba has gone around on her own pity tour, bragging about being sanctioned and losing cases.

And she's, you know, surrogate for Trump. I'm not even sure she does legal, she steps in and does legal cases. She always loses. She entered into a secret settlement this week, but I just want to share these clips with you first. The first clip I want to show you is Alina Habba from the Turning Point event that she did fairly recently where she brags about getting sanctioned over a million dollars in one of the cases where she represented Donald Trump. Let's play this clip. over a million dollars in one of the cases where she represented Donald Trump. Let's play this clip.

That got assigned to a Clinton appointed judge. What do you think happened? Nobody's heard of the case, right? Cause it's gone. I never met the judge. I never walked into the courtroom. There were probably 50 lawyers representing all of the radical left. Clinton's lawyers, Moog's lawyers, the list goes on and on and on.

One month, it got dismissed and me and President Trump got sanctioned a million dollars for going against Crooked Hillary. You didn't know that, did you? Fake news, folks, fake news. They won't report it, but guess what? We paid that million and we're going to keep on fighting. I mean, first off, we reported it. I mean, frankly, everybody reported the sanctions.

Is she saying she wants more people to report on? I wish corporate media actually reported more on the sanctions because they tend to focus a lot more on the filings of the lawsuits than the dismissals, which is what Trump counts on them to do. But, you know, is this a serious lawyer, Alina Haba? I mean, do serious lawyers walk around? Could you imagine if I walked around when I was a practicing lawyer and a litigator with my client's face and on my hat

with giving the middle finger, and I would just walk around like this? I mean, this is what Alina Haba walks around in and takes selfie photos of herself with Donald Trump giving the middle finger. And then she goes around, now she's like a Trump surrogate too. And she cuts all these ads for Trump,

like this one right here. So anybody that knows me, Alina Haba, senior advisor to the Trump campaign, but let's be honest, I also care a lot about my fit check. Oh, my check. She cares a lot about her fit check. I mean, and again, why we do this show while the corporate media wants to both

sides of this, I think it is really important for America and the world just to hear it from people who practice law or people who, you know, who follow these things. That's not normal. And when, and people are like watching corporate media, they're like, why are you normalizing? That's not normal behavior. And as we predicted, Alina Habba was going to get in a lot of trouble. She's been sanctioned court to court, not because they're liberal judges, but because she's pleading things without facts. When she does her cases,

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correspondents, Michael Popak. Where we last left off, I was showing those clips of Alina Haba, but she got into some big trouble in Bedminster. I think it is a sign of more things to come for her. I mean, she got out of this one, entered into a secret settlement. But in my opinion, this is going to be the kind of the tip of the iceberg over the next several years, if and when Donald Trump loses for the Alina Haba story, which we'll be covering here. Tell us about the secret settlement. What do we know about it?

Yeah, this was case number one. It's hard to believe that Alina Haba has only been in the public eye with Donald Trump since 2021. Seems so much longer than that. It's hard to believe that Alina Jaba has only been in the public eye with Donald Trump since 2021 seems so much longer than that. It's like when you're in the dentist chair for root canal and it won't ever end. So Alina Jaba has only been around that long. This was her first case that she ever handled for Donald Trump, her first matter she ever handled for Donald Trump that combined with matter she ever handled for Donald Trump, that combined with something that she handled relating to an apprentice contestant, some reservos, who sued

Donald Trump for sex harassment, and she got that case dismissed or settled. And that was enough to launch her career with Donald Trump. She is single-handedly responsible for more civil and criminal case losses for Donald Trump than any other attorney in American history. I mean, I can say that safely. She was the lawyer for every major criminal case until she was replaced. She was the lawyer for all the losses, including at the start of the attorney general case. She was the lawyer for Donald Trump and the E. Jean Carroll case in both of them until she got sidelined and kicked upstairs as whatever she is a floating

head spokesperson. Case number one that put her on the map because she started as, I'm not making this up folks, a parking lot parking garage lawyer representing parking lots. She's not a litigator. She practiced what you and I sometimes refer to as door law, which means you do anything that comes in the door. And she did that in a little tiny office in Bedminster, New Jersey, right off of where the golf course was. And she was a member of the club, the Bedminster golf course that Trump owns.

And she was dying to find a way to get into his inner circle and get noticed and to get hired by him. And she had her opportunity with Alice Bianco. Alice Bianco was a 21-year-old server at Bedminster who was horribly, along with others there, horribly sexually abused in a sexually hostile work environment by a food and beverage manager, making the club and therefore Donald Trump responsible for his actions. Lena Haba found out about it. How did she find out about it?

She found out about it from Donald Trump. And she decided to, through false pretenses, this is all in the lawsuit that was filed in New Jersey Superior Court in front of Judge Ray. She, according to the allegations of the lawsuit, Alina Haba groomed, groomed, those are the words from the complaint, Alice Bianco to make her believe

that she was her best friend, that not her lawyer, but her best friend, a person she could count on for advice. They met at her law office. She had Alice Bianco fire her then existing lawyer, leaving her defenseless, leaving her without any counsel at all, as she was basically negotiating with Donald Trump's lawyer or wannabe lawyer in the form of Alina Haba. Alina Haba wanted to desperately deliver this settlement and this resolution to Donald Trump in order for him to curry favor with him and to get on his legal team. And that's what happened, except

she forced Alice Bianco, according to the complaint, to settle at a low ball number. She took $15,000 to settle, probably many multiples less than she was entitled to. She fired her other lawyers. She settled with Alina Haba. She believed Alina Haba was her lawyer in violation of a series of bar rules in every state, including in New Jersey. So for those that are thinking, isn't this unethical that you act like you're the lawyer for the plaintiff when you're really working for the defendant? Yes. Yes.

That's called, you have to have candor to your client and to the tribunal. You're not allowed to do that and to defraud your client. And then Alice Bianco knew she was had when she tried to get some further advice from Alina Haba about the tax consequences of the payment. And she said, well, you know I don't represent you. And she said, well, you know, I don't represent you. You know, I have a conflict. You know, I can't represent you, meaning I represent Trump. And Alice, what are you talking about?

You've always represented me. We met in the parking lot in our gym clothes. We talked about the case all again in the complaint. This was so concerning to Judge Ray, the judge in New Jersey, and you and I reported on this back in December, that in handwriting at the bottom of his order. About the case he wrote if i get credible evidence. That elena hobbar lawyer this case has committed these ethical violations are alleged to complain i'm making a referral to the bar in new jersey. I'll be a hobba also got thrown under the bus in the same case by the trump organization. Because they in the filing and settling their case, because they settled.

But when they settled, Trump settled, he didn't get a release. He didn't protect Alina Haba. One, the plaintiffs didn't want to do that. They wanted to continue to go after Alina Haba. And two, Trump didn't want to pay enough in order to protect his, whatever she is, girlfriend, lawyer, whatever she's supposed to be. in order to protect his, whatever she is, girlfriend, lawyer, whatever she's supposed to be. So he got out of the case,

but he left Alina Jaba high and dry. And in the case, and they took the position, the Trump people, the Bedminster people took the position that whatever that woman said, Alina Jaba, we're not bound by that. We're not vicariously liable for that. That's the concept in the law. She's not an agent of ours. I don't know what

she was doing. So, you know, I was thrown into the bus. And of course, the judge was just sitting there going, go on, tell me more. So she had to settle this case. So now there's a settlement about what effectively is the first hush money case that Alina Haba handled, right, not the first one for Donald Trump, but the first one for Alina Haba, which was her launching pad to get into the orbit of Donald Trump.

It's also going to be her undoing. You showed a clip earlier about her bragging on some friendly debate stage or friendly stage where she was strutting the stage, like she was in some sort of weirdo Ted Talk in which she was bragging about a federal judge. I don't care who appointed him, a federal judge in Florida, Judge Middlebrooks, after sitting around and looking at

this BS lawsuit for a year in which Donald Trump sued Hillary Clinton, the Democratic National Committee, and everybody else, John Podesta and everybody else you could think of, including Congress people, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. And the judge said, this was a political screed and rant and vendetta and hit list masquerading as a lawsuit. And I'm going to sanction you for over a million dollars under the various rules and powers of a federal judge for a meritorious bad faith filing. That in our world is a really bad thing that she's gonna have to disclose on her mouth. This is Alina

Haba on her malpractice application for insurance if she can get it. If she ever applies for admission to any other bar or in any court. She never, let me just make this the last point, Alina Haba was a, who never was a effective or successful trial lawyer or litigator. Like I said, she did small time law in this office and defrauding Alice Bianco to settle a sex harassment case, should not have put her in the lead chair to try some of the most important criminal and civil matters for Donald Trump, and yet it did. It's again, it shows you the lack of judgment and character by Donald Trump that this is who he has in his inner circle.

She settled the case, but she can't settle the ethics charge. And now I'm going to, I'm sure you and I, I'm going to keep an eye on it. Judge Ray is going to make that referral. When the media contacted the New Jersey Bar and the grievance committee and said, are you, do you have an active open file against Alina Haba? They said that what they always say, we cannot comment on any, on any active investigation we may or may not be conducting. Read that to mean they have opened up

an active investigation against Alina Jaba. And I think she holds two bar licenses from what I can see, New Jersey and New York. If she loses her New Jersey license or it gets suspended or reprimanded, she will also have a problem with her New York license, which I think is why she's slowly been trying to move over and get out of the world of being a lawyer and just be whatever she is for

Donald Trump. And then we're going to hear her whine and say, Oh, they're coming after me. All of the liberal New Jersey leaders, even though I said New Jersey is actually a red state for the past year, all the liberal New Jersey people, the state bar is weaponized against me because I allegedly groomed this client or pretended this person was a client of mine and engaged in the most unethical, egregious behavior where frankly, any other lawyer would have been disbarred already. Let's be clear. If that conduct existed with any other lawyer, they would have their license

suspended six months ago. So they get passes and then they're gonna whine about it. All right, let's talk about New York, Georgia, what's going on in these various cases. A lot of developments there. New York back to back losses against Donald Trump. With Georgia though, there was a slight victory I guess. The main charges still stick against Donald Trump.

In New York, the highest court, which in New York is called their Court of Appeals at the state court level, the Supreme Court is their trial court. They just try to make it confusing. Trial court, Supreme Court, and then they have the appellate divisions. Then the Court of Appeals in New York

in your state court system is the highest. And then you have the federal courts in New York. And then the Second Circuit Court of Appeals oversees the New York federal courts in some other states as well. But the highest state court in New York affirmed the gag order against Donald Trump. He loses there.

And then the Second Circuit Court of Appeals rejected Donald Trump's efforts to stay or stall the Manhattan district attorney criminal case where he was convicted, where sentencing is scheduled in November. And they were citing, uh, justices Murchon's ruling. Then you go to Georgia where you have, uh, Scott McAfee buying some of Donald Trump's arguments on the grounds though, of, of the supremacy clause. Where essentially saying not that there is no remedy, but the

remedy is what Jack Smith is doing, not what state prosecutors should be doing. Nonetheless, the big state charges against Donald Trump are still sticking and he's going to be tried in Georgia. So it's not like a win-win, but certain of the charges got dismissed, but it's the context of supremacy clause. Those should be federal and they are. And Jack Smith is briefing that and there was a whole briefing schedule over the next month and month and a half that we talked about in the past legally. That will go before Judge Chutkin. Break it all down, Popak, for us if you can. All three.

Yeah, no problem. I'll do it relatively efficiently. In New York, the gag order that has been in place modified though by Judge Mershon in the 34 felony count conviction. Donald Trump has been trying to get rid of that gag order arguing First Amendment protected presidential campaign speech, which is not a thing by the way. Get rid of the gag order. I already got convicted. What's left to be done? Well, he hasn't been sentenced yet, that's one.

Now the judge did modify it, he originally imposed it where he didn't want Donald Trump to go after any anticipated foreseeable witness or family members of the Manhattan DA or the judge or staff and that kind of thing, but he modified it. After the conviction happened, he's like, well, we know who the witnesses are. And they were all against you.

So if you want to comment about Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, go ahead. Although that seems to have been, Donald Trump has gotten fatigued about that. You don't hear much about either of those two people on the quote unquote campaign trail. I just think that just brings up what you started this podcast tonight with,

which is the felon, the prosecutor versus the felon or the predator. So the modified gag order has been in place. And I did a hot take on this. And Donald Trump's got a number of problems as an unwell man who's in shambles and circling the drain financially, morally and otherwise and mentally. But his other problem is he's got all these different venues and arenas where the positions he's taking are not consistent. He wants to say things out loud in his defense in order to try to win over the hearts and

minds of some remaining voters. But those very same statements, which often verge on racist, misogynist, violent rhetoric that is inconsistent with the positions his lawyers are taking or he's taken in the courtroom, like interviews where he says, or debates where he says, no, I never conceded that I lost the election. No, no, no, that was a sarcasm. All these stupid things that prosecutors and their teams are just waiting to scrape all of these comments and interviews and debates and use it against him and at these trials. Something else that can be used against him is in his sentencing. He's not out of the woods yet. He's going

to get sentenced the 26th of November by Judge Mershon. And everything that he's done and said before trial, during trial, and after trial, right up until the moment of being sentenced, is fair game for the judge to use and evaluate, including these statements that he's making and his failure to accept responsibility, his failure to show any contrition whatsoever. So why he wants to be let out from under the gag order, I have no idea. It would be much better for him and much wiser for him if he stood in front of his adoring audience as small as it is at these rallies and just said, I'd love to talk about the New York, but we have it up on appeal and I have a gag order so I can't talk about it

and let him boo, but don't say anything. So they tried and the judge said no. And then they took it up over the summer, they took it up to the first department appellate division in Manhattan, which is the first stop on the appellate train, and they said no. They also said no, saying there's no constitutional question that you're raising. There's no substantial constitutional issue in play denied. He didn't like that, that loss, so he took it up to the highest court, the court of appeals.

And they rejected it on the exact same grounds. Gagwater stays in place, no substantial constitutional question. It's all First Amendment presidential speech thing. We don't know what you're talking about. You're not allowed to undermine the integrity of the very criminal justice system that you just got convicted under. You know, you're no longer, he's no longer, I got wrongfully indicted. As Judge Mershon put it in a recent order, this is now a convicted, unanimously convicted felon, okay, who has, yes, has continued rights, but he's no longer, there's no more presumption of innocence He's been convicted 12 0 12 0 by a fair and partial jury

Donald Trump is continuing to try to drag the case before sentencing the federal court Thinking if he get a federal judge to listen to some of his bullshit defenses post conviction and pre-sentencing, that it will somehow change the result that Mershon won't sentence him, maybe a federal judge would sentence him, and then he'd be able to go through the federal appellate process that you outlined and then get over to the United States Supreme Court. Because he's got to jump the tracks and hijack the case and bring it over to the feds in order to get to the Supreme

Court. Well, as we smartly said before, as we said before smartly about Judge Marchand, he blocked the exit for going to a federal court and or to the US Supreme Court before he sentences and certainly before the election because he said, well, I'm not going to rule on the immunity decision in your state case. So you're not going to be able to take an appeal or argue anything. And since he didn't do that, and he postponed on his own

the sentencing, the federal appellate court, the Second Circuit, which is the highest court in New York at the appellate level said, yeah, you don't need an emergency stay of anything related to your attempts to take the case to federal court, because the state court judge gave you an extension of time. So that's denied. Doesn't mean the issue of whether Donald Trump can take a federal appeal ultimately is resolved.

It just means it's not going to get resolved before the November election, which is really what matters. And we're not going to talk about it at length today. Maybe I'll pick up with it with Karen on midweek or maybe during a hot take. But Donald Trump's strategy in all of these criminal cases has been too smart by half, probably because he's guided by people like Alina Haba and Laura Loomer, instead of people like Jack Smith and all the great lawyers in the Manhattan DA's office. I mean, this is an unfair fight. This isn't even cat and mouse. I don't know what this is. I mean, this is an unfair fight, okay? This isn't even cat and mouse.

This is, I don't know what this is. He tried to delay the Chutkin case in DC election interference case, and all he got was Judge Chutkin ordering and allowing the prosecutors to file not one, but two briefs with new evidence that they're gonna be airing to the American people before the election.

Great work, Donald. That was great. And then over here, he wanted to delay his sentencing in New York. And all that allowed Mershon to do is delay the immunity decision which would have given him the appeal and the route to the Supreme Court. So another too smart by half moment by Donald Trump in his revolving door of brain trust. And I use that term lightly. Georgia. I mean, I know the reporting has been, it's going slightly better for him because the lawyers for Donald Trump say it is Steve Sado says, Oh, we got to win.

Okay. Let's, let's break it down. Two things happened in Georgia. Three in the last week that I think are important. One, Fonny Willis is there. They're trying to drag Fonny Willis, just like the US Congress and MAGA try to drag Alvin Bragg and prosecutors before them for show theater in front of the American people about ongoing criminal investigations.

So the Senate Republicans, State Senate Republicans in Georgia want to drag Fonny Willis, the DA in Fulton County, before them in a hearing in order to ask her questions about the ongoing prosecution and so she's filed a suit to quash the subpoenas, meaning so she won't have to appear, and that's going to be heard by some judge in Fulton County. All I know is it's not going to be heard by Judge McAfee, who's the judge presiding over the Trump case, because he recused himself and said, no, I don't want to handle the right or wrongs about Fonny Willis any longer. I've got her as a prosecutor here in my case.

So that happened. The next thing that happened is Judge McAfee got around to ruling on some motions to dismiss certain elements of the indictment, that long sprawling indictment, 30, 40, 50 counts, whatever it ends up being. The heart of it is a racketeering influence and corrupt organization act count, a racketeering conspiracy that has many overt acts and additional

predicate acts or crimes. Some defendants already got out of the case because they cooperated with Fonny Wallace. That left about 14 or so that are left minus two or three of former lawyers for Donald Trump that took plea deals, including Ken Chesborough on one of the counts that just got dismissed, but he took the plea deal already. So there's like 11 or 12 left. Donald Trump, of course, the lead person in all of that. But you also got like Mark Meadows there, John Eastman and whatever. And one of the elements, when you and I looked and compared, because they came out almost simultaneously with a small cap, of Jack Smith's surgical four count indictment against Donald Trump, not for racketeering conspiracy, that yes mentioned five unnamed unindicted co-conspirators, but was really surgical and just like nailed Donald Trump.

And these are the 30 things he did wrong. And this is the timeline in which he did it, kind of tracking the Jan 6 committee and its report. We compare that to Fonny Willis, which had this gigantic, sprawling speaking indictment, which moved across multiple states about Georgia and Arizona and Pennsylvania, and federal issues about the fake electors, sort of like what we already saw Jack Smith doing in the DC election interference case. And the lawyers had a field day with saying, well, how does she have jurisdiction to go after some of these federal issues like the fake electors, the fake elector certificates? I don't want to say it's not an element of her conspiracy.

And what, but it's, but there's still a lot of her case left. What Judge McAfee ruled in favor of Donald Trump is the fake elector counts because they're federal based and under the constitutional supremacy clause, gotta go. Cause she doesn't have jurisdiction as a state prosecutor to cross over that boundary between state and federal law and jurisdiction and go grab issues,

even if they're overt acts or this case counts in the indictment against Donald Trump. Jack Smith can, and even McAfee recognized that. Federal prosecutors, that's the world of federal prosecutors and it is a part. The fake election certificates are the heart of at least two of the counts in Jack Smith's DC election interference case for obstruction of an official proceeding. So it is a win. It is a winnowing down of the sprawling speaking indictment to its core constituent parts.

The reality is nobody's getting out. Everybody's staying in because they were also indicted for other things and other conspiracies that didn't have anything to do with the fake election certificates. I think maybe one is out completely. And then lastly, a side note, Bert Jones, who's the current lieutenant governor of Georgia, who was also a fake elector. And there I think there were eight were eight or nine of them, most of which have cooperated with Fonny Willis. He has been fighting it left and right. And Fonny Willis got removed from the Burt Jones prosecution early on in the case

by Judge McBurney, who was the chief judge at the time in Georgia, because she held a fundraiser for an opponent of Burt Jones, who was a Democrat. Probably shouldn't have done it. And the judge says, you probably shouldn't have done it and I'm going to take you off the case. He referred it over the Georgia Prosecutors' Council, which is like this body of prosecutors around the state. They assigned the case, I think, to the person who chairs that committee. And that prosecutor, after a year and a half of looking at it, finally decided that Bert Jones, because he was a fake elector, even though he was a fake elector, he thought he was an elector for Donald Trump under certain circumstances, so there's no criminal intent. So he's not even going to bring an indictment against Bert Jones.

So Bert Jones is out. And I think it's sort of tied into the same philosophy that McAfee used about the fake elector issue being a state court and or criminal issue. But that's the update. You know, Georgia was sort of dormant for a long time and there's issues about Fonny Willis being removed from the case that are still up on appeal that has not yet been heard. And that happens in later September. But that's sort of where we are in a case, just to be clear, that was never going to trial before the November election, nor the inauguration. Even if everything went well, it was going to be a 2025 or 2026 event, but

it's, but it's, it's going to be further delayed now. Michael Popock, you may have to go solo on our next Patreon partner and associate meeting, patreon.com slash legal AF. Monday is the due date. So we will keep everybody posted if, um, that is indeed the date that I will have my first kid or baby girl, my wife and I, um, will be, will be headed out there, so we will, it will be in your able hands, Michael Popak to hold the meeting with everybody. Um, but if you can really join it, I mean, um, you know, to spend an

hour with Michael Pope, I can ask him all of the questions that you may have. It's a, it's a great time. People have loved it. We'll do it sometime or you'll do it sometime next week. I'm going to volunteer you for it. Patreon.com slash legal AFP, ATR EON.com or due to the next two weeks, but we got to do it this month, patreon.com. Slash legal AF. I got something I want to say about what you just said.

What's that? I wasn't, I wasn't going to raise it because you, but I, because you know, I wanted it's a private thing and I wasn't sure what you wanted to say. I am so honored to have you and Sochi as friends. We've been doing this journey together. We're doing this particular journey together and you and I are both going to be girl dads at or around the same time. In a moment in history, we're about to, in our own way, contribute to the election of

the first female president in this country, or as my wife's t-shirt says, it's about Madam Time. or as my wife's t-shirt says, it's about madam time. And the fact that I think it's so, so much synchronicity and serendipity and lovely that you and I are both gonna be raising strong women coming from strong women to be the next round of president. And I'm just so honored to always be with you here on this network and with your brothers and all the other contributors.

Well, the feeling is mutual and the Legal AF family is all part of this together. We've taken this journey together. We're growing together. To all the Legal AFers out there, thank you so much for sharing this show, letting people know about what we do here. This has become our life's work and it's an honor to share our life's work with you. We both pivoted to this and you know, it's a surprise in our career trajectories that we'd wind up here, but frankly, couldn't be happier and wouldn't want to be anywhere else than spending these weekends with you and frankly, throughout the week with the various hot takes and we get to see a lot of people's faces at patreon.com slash legal AF.

So it's great. But even if we don't get to see your faces there we know you're here we feel your presence and this community's presence as it continues to grow and support our democracy and as we see our politics here and frankly our American culture taking on the language of compassion supporting each other, pro-democracy, the types of things we talk about here all of the time, lifting people up, not punching down, making politics more about that. It's, it's an honor to spread those values and principles with each

and every one of you. We'll see you next time on Legal AF and we'll see you at patreon.com slash Legal AF. Again, shout out to our sponsors, a lot of sponsors this episode, but they really, really do help. And the discount codes are in the description below. And we spend a lot of time checking those sponsors out before and do our best to use the products and vet them. And I think you'll like them too.

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