Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump’s MASSIVE Supreme Court SECRET is LET LOOSE

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo, joined by special guest anchor and executive producer of True CrimeMTN on the Meidas Touch Network, Palm Beach County (FL) State Attorney Dave Aronberg, are hosting the midweek edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On tap? 1. Why was Mark Meadows efforts to drag his Arizona state prosecution for election interference to federal court just rejected, and just how thin is Trump and his “legal team” stretched, when they have 4 briefs due in 3 criminal matters and appeal all over the next 45 days; 2. The Russians are using trolls and MAGA influencers to attack VP Harris using deep fake videos and disinformation about her being involved in a hit and run accident 20 years ago, as the DOJ prosecutes other Russian agents trying to infiltrate right wing MAGA podcast media by paying them $10 million dollars to run anti-American and pro-Russian stories; 3. A newly leaked memo proves that Chief Justice John Roberts is the reason Trump was benefitted by three major cases before the election, and 4. so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Subscribe to the NEW Legal AF YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@LegalAFMTN Subscribe to True Crime MTN: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZl9z2UMvN9mwpUoU9-E9bA Join the Legal AF Patreon: https://Patreon.com/LegalAF Thanks to our sponsors: Miracle Made: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://TryMiracle.com/LEGALAF and use the code LEGALAF to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. HumanN: Find out how you can get a free 30-day supply on bundles of new SuperBeets Heart Chews Advanced and save 15% for a limited time only by going to https://GETSUPERBEETS.COM, promo code LEGALAF Shopify: Sign up for a one-dollar per month trial at https://shopify.com/legalaf Lume: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with Lume deodorant and get $5 off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code legalaf at https://LumeDeodorant.com! #lumepod One Skin: Get started today at https://OneSkin.co and receive 15% Off using code: LEGALAF Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the game. To wager Ontario-only gambling problem, call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BedMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. So what's it like to buy your first cryptocurrency on Kraken? Well, let's say I'm at a food truck I've never tried before. Am I gonna go all in on the loaded taco? No, sir. I'm keeping it simple. Starting small.

That's trading on Kraken. Pick from over 190 assets and start with the 10 bucks in your pocket. Easy. Go to kraken.com and see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. See kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer for info on Kraken's undertaking to register in Canada.

I'm going back to university for zero dollar delivery fee. Up to five percent off orders and five percent Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get uber one for students. With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month. Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms apply. This episode is brought to you by CIBC. From closing that first sale to opening a second store, as a business owner you've hustled to accomplish a lot, but the rewards don't stop there. When you earn two times more points on things that matter to you and your business,

easily track those business expenses, and experience flexible Aventura rewards, you'll realize how much more rewarding your hustle can be. Get up to $1,800 in value when you apply for the CIBC Aventura Visa for Business at cibc.com slash Aventura Business. Terms and conditions apply. Prime Big Deal Days is coming October 8th and 9th, which can lead to involuntary deal squeals,

like the infamous deal on a new massager squeal. Save big on Prime Big Deal Days, October 8th and 9th. Welcome to the midweek edition of Legal AF with your co-anchors, Michael Popak and Karen Freemann at Knifilow. Oh, we got an exciting show for you today. We got three major topics at the intersection of law and politics. And for our second topic, we're going to be joined a little crossover episode with Dave Arenberg, AKA Florida Lawman, who's joining us from our sister podcast, True Crime MTN.

We're going to be talking about Russian interference, the creation of phony videos that got out viral through MAGA, but that were created by a Russian troll farm controlled by Putin and the Russians. You remember Vladimir Putin, the guy that Donald Trump has a bromance with, by Putin and the Russians. You remember Vladimir Putin, the guy that Donald Trump has a bromance with, kept mentioning during the debate. Well, they ran a video that was fake claiming that Kamala Harris was involved with a hit and run that paralyzed a 13 year old girl in 2011. You might be thinking, we should have heard about that if that was true. It wasn't true. Another example of Russian collusion. I'm going to bring in the former

prosecutors and the current prosecutors. We've got the state attorney, Dave Arenberg from Palm Beach County. We've got the former Manhattan DA, chief deputy in Karen Freeman, Nick Niflo, and me. I'll try to hold my weight on that particular segment. That'll be after our regular commercial break. But first, Karen and I will talk about Mark Meadows. We just got to. Once again, getting shot down by a federal court in his attempts to take the Arizona criminal prosecution of Mark Meadows across the street, the federal court has a one-two punch to try to get up to the federal courts of appeal and the United States Supreme Court. You might be kind of scratching your head and rubbing your eyes and thinking, Popak, is this an old episode

of Legal AF? Didn't he try that before? Yes, he did. He tried that in Georgia. You do remember that correctly. And he lost at the federal level in Georgia to try to take his Georgia indictment over to federal court. He lost at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, and he's asked for an appeal at the United States Supreme Court that's not yet been ruled on. We'll break it all down in our next segment along with some developments at the 11th Circuit about the Mar-a-Lago case and Judge Cannon and some new requests, emergency requests made by Donald Trump as he tries to balance all of his criminal problems along presumably with some sort of campaign to the extent that he hasn't quietly quit that campaign.

His lawyers seem to be very concerned about a Second Circuit appeal that impacts, they believe, his sentencing in the 34-count felony conviction in New York. They're very concerned about not missing the deadlines for briefing in the DC election interference case with Judge Chutkin, and then they gotta deal with the Mar-a-Lago case.

So Donald Trump can't even get a brief in on time where he's the winner, where he won the Mar-a-Lago case for now and had the indictment dismissed. And then we're gonna talk about these new revelations of some hard hitting investigative reporting by the New York Times that got their hot little hands on a memo, an internal now leaked memo of the United States Supreme Court.

Where have we heard that before? In which it's clear that John Roberts and John Roberts alone with the prerogative of being the Chief Justice is responsible, is responsible for all three pro-Trump decisions that came out over the summer. All three of them, all written by John Roberts. And we're gonna talk about the revelations in that article, the things that struck us the most, including

something that happened with Sam Alito that we didn't know happened that's very, very troubling, along with the way that John Roberts seems to have played the moderates and liberals on the court. And we'll do all of that in one place, Legal AF and the Midas Touch Network. Let's bring in Karen. Hi, Karen. Hello, Popak. It's good to see you. It was well. I want you to tell the audience why you're in a tiny little gray room with some sort of grate on the window behind you. What's going on with you? Well, one of my jobs, which is a really fun job,

I can't all it can't all just be law and fighting and arguing all the time is I am the legal advisor to Law and Order, the original Law and Order show. So it's super fun. I get to come on set usually once or twice a week. This week it's twice and I am in it used to be Lieutenant Dixon's office, but now there's a new lieutenant, Lieutenant Brady. Her first name is Maura, for some reason her last name is, I'm blanking on, she's, she was one of my favorite actors who was in that show, The Affair, if you remember,

she was, she was the wife. Anyway, I loved that show and I love her as an actor and this is her office. She's Lieutenant Jessica. And yet she got the same office as her predecessor. You know, it has to be realistic. And that's how it would be in a normal police precinct. Well, I love that you make time for us here on Legal AF, the Midas Touch Network with among all your other things I know where your heart lies with us. Isn't it great that we're going to have one of our fellow podcasters and somebody that we're close with and you- Maura Tierney is her name. Sorry, I had to-

No, Maura Tierney is not going to be with us in the second segment. I know. I had to name her. We are going to have Dave Ehrenberg. I think that's a special treat for us. Some of us have gone over there and done some work on True Crime MTN. And if you haven't already, go over to the YouTube channel and look for that. That's another Midas Touch Network collaboration that Dave Arenberg, the current Palm Beach County state attorney administers, that he's the curator for. And we're going to talk more about all of that stuff with him. Let's kick it off with Mark Meadows, the Arizona case, what that's all about and what just happened to him in the federal court with the federal judge there as he tried the exact same argument that he tried and failed with in Georgia. Why don't you take it, Karen?

Yeah, so Mark Meadows, if you remember, is the former White House chief of staff under Donald Trump. And when he was indicted in Georgia by Fonny Willis, he was one of the defendants who tried to have the case removed to federal court and saying essentially, you can't prosecute me in state court, you have to prosecute me in federal court. And the reason he and others want to do that is because if they can make a showing that they were acting on officially,

essentially and within their job description, they would then ask to apply the immunity, the presidential immunity, uh, by extension doctrine that the Supreme court has created this new law. So that's why they are so desperate to get to federal courts so that the supremacy clause would apply and essentially dismiss the Georgia case against them. And that failed in Georgia, but he's

trying the same thing in Arizona now based on this new decision that came out in July. He did this before in Georgia before, and now he's one of, I think, 18 defendants who is charged in Arizona, very similar in the sense that it's the fake elector conspiracy is charged with conspiracy fraud, forgery, that sort of thing about the attempt to deliver all the fake electors. And the judge in Arizona, this is a federal district judge, found that Mark Meadows failed to demonstrate that the conduct charged in the state prosecution related to the color of his office when he was chief of staff to the president.

So the court essentially credited, the court said that they credited Mr. Meadows' theory that the chief of staff is responsible for acting as the president's gatekeeper. However, that conclusion doesn't create a causal nexus between Mr. Meadows' official authority and the charged conduct. That's a quote from the decision

and a conclusion by the judge. The judge's name was Tucci, I believe. And look, it was an attempt to, once again, be immune from this behavior. And the federal district court basically said, not so fast. We're not removing this case. So the way the state's indictment is written, you're guilty, right? And he was basically trying to reframe the indictment of just merely facilitating communication and staying abreast of the campaign goings on. And the judge said, that's not what the allegations are. The allegations are that you had a much more active role in this. So, you know,

he basically called him out and said, look, you know, the few, if any of the state's factual allegations even resemble the secretarial duties that Mr. Meadows maintains are the subject of the indictment. I love the way federal judges, right? So, you know, he's just basically said, essentially, he orchestrated and participated in this illegal electioneering scheme. That's how the indictment's written and that belongs in state court. So it was sent back down to state court. I thought that was a pretty powerful,

pretty powerful smack down. Yeah, and if he doesn't like it, and Mark Meadows won't and his lawyers there won't, they'll do what they tried to do when they didn't like the ruling by Judge Jones in Georgia, in which he found the exact same thing after an evidentiary hearing. One of my favorite comments from the Arizona judge was a version of, you don't want to remove the indictment, you want to rewrite the indictment. I love that,

because that's what he learned that from Donald Trump, the lawyers for Mark Meadows. They just totally create a straw man and completely rewrite the indictment and then try to argue. It's just what chiefs of staff do. We just schedule and order lunch and make sure that the president is connected with constituencies and other in the halls of power. Like, what are you talking about? That has nothing to do with what the indictment charges you with. And so no, I'll take it at face value.

The judge said that you're a federal officer, but you're not within the federal color of law. And more importantly, you missed your deadline. The judge also said you're 18 days late in filing your notice of removal. You had 30 days. You filed it 48 days after your arraignment. And all of your excuses that, well, we were in negotiations with the prosecutor. So what? You got to do that on a parallel track. That doesn't allow you. And all of your excuses that well, we were in negotiations with the prosecutor. So what you got to do that on a parallel track. That doesn't allow you and I can't you know, removal is strange. It's one of those. There's a few of them in the law where the judge can't give an extension of time. You have to file it within your 30 days. And if you miss it, you got to hope to God, you got good faith, a good faith cause reason just cause why you

missed it. Just as you don't have just cause. You were talking to the prosecutors, the Arizona attorney general, good for you. What else you got? And he said, oh, well, we're waiting on the immunity decision from the court. He goes, well, that may have been helpful to Donald Trump, but that doesn't mean you don't remove, you know, for those out there that come to our show for some legal knowledge as well. A notice of removal is a one page, one paragraph document that takes you all of, I don't know, 15 minutes to prepare and

file. So that's why the judge is like, I don't know what you're talking about. You file it and then you watch for the immunity decision. And if you don't like the results of it, you can always expand the grounds for your appeal. No. So no, you're late. And even if you weren't late, though, I'm going to kill your case because it's not within the color of your office. It's not within your scope of duties or your job description as chief of staff to try to overthrow democracy. So let's switch gears, Karen, over to the 11th Circuit. Donald Trump won that one. And yet he's still with his lawyers, Emile Bové, and Todd Blanch can't, they're just stretched so thin. And I want to talk about the timing of what they're arguing, because they got to, they mentioned a

number of it in their motion for more time, they needed 30 days, they asked for additional 30 days, because their brief would have been due in about a week, about 10 days. This is the issue, just to remind people. Mar-a-Lago, they got Alien Cannon, for some of the reasons that will remain nameless right now on this particular analysis, they got Alien Cannon, whose patriot is Donald Trump, who put her on the bench to make a decision for the first time in the entirety of our federal judiciary, the entirety of our federal jurisprudence, that the special counsel, independent counsel, special prosecutor, whatever you want to call that position, is illegitimate

and illegitimately appointed and not an appropriate inferior officer under the Constitution as appointed by the head of the department, which is Merrick Garland, the head of the Department of Justice as Attorney General. First judge to ever rule that way. More importantly, dozens of judges have said the exact opposite. And even more importantly, according to the special prosecutor, she violated the cardinal sin of being a sitting district court judge. She did not respect the rulings of her bosses above her. That's called she violated hierarchical stare decisis because that's a highfalutin way of saying the Supreme Court in the Nixon case already told you how to make this decision. That's your binding precedent you need to file.

Plus, there were some other precedent in the 11th Circuit as well that she completely ignored. You can't do that. You can't just make up new law at a whole cloth unless that area has never been addressed before. So that's a big problem for her. So Trump wrote a motion asking time, it sounds like a Florida law man beep, asking for time to file his brief

because he's got problems in Manhattan, in the criminal case that came out of your old office, and he's got problems in the District of Columbia. Why don't you walk the audience through all of these problems? Yeah, he essentially is, he wanted more time because he's like, I'm busy, I have to spend time in a skiff, this sensitive, compartmented,

I always forget what it's called the classified information facility. And it's where it's the skiff is the place where when you have classified classified documents or evidence and you want to show it to a defense attorney, or even if prosecutors want to look at it or go over it with witnesses, you have to go into what's called the skiff. And you have to leave your devices outside. And it's, you know, it's just, it's a very, it's a place that has you can't penetrate it with electronics. And it's, it's how you have to look at really sensitive and classified information. And so what they basically said was, look, we need more time, we spend too much time in a skiff

in the Washington DC case, we can't possibly get to this. So he asked for more time. And you know, look, the 11th Circuit has one of these, you always get one adjournment. You always get, if you ask for 30 days, you always get it. And I think the prosecutor, I think Jack Smith even agreed to it here. So it was clear they were going to do it, right? But the problem is, by doing that, this pushes this way out after inauguration. Oral arguments aren't going to happen anytime soon, and appeals take a long time. And so they're not even going to schedule oral arguments until after the inauguration. We know what that means, right?

We know that that means that if Donald Trump wins the election, say goodbye to all these cases that are federal. He's going to pardon himself and dismiss the cases, right? Which is one of the reasons why these state cases are so important. The New York case, the Georgia case, and you know it's the only way he's going to be held accountable because he's going to get away with it here. So it's just more, you know, they, I don't know, it seemed like a pathetic excuse to me. Is there too busy looking at stuff for in the Washington case? And I think you're right. They're just spread very thin. They don't have a big law firm. And so they need more time. They needed another 30 days. And it was, it was granted right away. It was just an easy kind

of summary granting. I think this is a terrible thing for Donald Trump that's not getting enough reporting. Let me just put it this way. You're right that the November election is not going to directly. Of course, none of this stuff is going to happen before the November election. But look what Judge Chutkin down in the DC election

interference case is allowing the government to do by adopting their approach. Normally, as you know, as a prosecutor, when you you got an indictment that may have some infirmities, the defendant goes first to move to dismiss the indictment and gets the first word in the first brief and the last word in the reply brief with the government in the middle. That's not what she did. What she said was, I think it's a good idea what the government's proposal is. You go first.

You file the brief to tell me why the immunity decision and how it maps onto your superseding indictment and why it survives. And then we'll hear from Mr. Trump. And then you go again. Now, they've already said at the Department of Justice that they're going to be airing new evidence. It's almost like what Danya Perry had said

on your mistrial episode, in which she said, there could be a mini trial here. Well, at least there's going gonna be an airing of new evidence that we, you, me, Legal AF, and our audience have never seen before. And it's all gonna be against Donald Trump to another moment to teach the American people who they're voting for in November.

But they don't get to just do that once. They get two briefs, two bites at the apple before the election to air new evidence. And Donald Trump just has something in the middle in one brief. Terrible. So instead of saying, because most people that are under the shadow of a criminal indictment, this is why we have the Speedy Trial Act. They want fast trial or a reasonably fast trial so they can clear their name, especially

if their defenses are already in order and discovery is already done. You don't want the overhang of, especially when you're running for office like the presidency, you don't want the overhang. Let's get to trial. Although every time Donald Trump gets the trial, he loses $500 million fraud case, $100 million ultimately to E. Jean Carroll, 34 felony convictions in Judge Marshawn's courtroom. It's not good for him to go fast. I get that. But he also doesn't get to present his evidence. And instead, Donald Trump, just to show you his adult judgment, I would say as of late, but it's been going on for a long time. The first thing he did, after a gunman had a gun hanging out of a bush in a golf course in Florida, first thing he did the next day, before even we could have a goodwill, you

know, let's rally around a guy who almost got nailed again, is he started selling cryptocurrency with his sons, led by apparently Baron, who's now the head of the news, now the visionary in charge of his new cryptocurrency scheme. So even before we could figure out on this network, you know, we need to cover that assassination attempt, don't we? By the next day when we were ready to do it, he was already off. It bored Donald Trump. He'd already moved on to selling crypto while he's running for president. So, you know, the timing of things is always to the advantage of, as far as I'm concerned, the Department of Justice and the prosecutors. He's going to lose the Second Circuit argument to delay any further his sentencing on the 26th of November in New York.

And we'll talk about that as we get closer and the things that may be filed there. DC election interference case, we're going to get those two briefs to the American people before November 5. And then sometime next month or so, we're going to get a final briefing into the 11th Circuit and they're going to have to decide, and they will, that Judge Cannon was wrong and that she had made yet another reversible error, a major reversible error, and they're going to have to decide to, I think, to both reinstate the indictment, find that Jack Smith is a legitimate exercise of constitutional and presidential power, the appointment there, and maybe get rid of her as well. I know there's some

amicus briefs that are asking for all of that. We're going to talk about, Karen, you have anything else to add about the timeline and the presentation of all this evidence to the American people before the November election? You know, one of my absolute favorite things about you, Popok, and there are many, but one of my favorites is, you know, the sun never sets in Popok land, right? It's just, it's true. Your optimism is just beautiful,

because it's just amazing to me that you are like, this is great, the timing's great, it's all gonna be great. And I'm like, only if he loses the election. You know, I just see all this as well, if he wins the election, you know, the timing isn't so great. But I love the positive thing. People come for the combination of popachium, popachium and the grim reaper that you often bring. Well, if he's elected again, I've moved on from that. I'm not. I love it. I love it. It makes me so happy. I mean, I know it actually makes our, I honestly, I know because I read the comments. I know that it makes our audience happy.

They're not pandering. That's how I feel. It's true. But it's true. It's because it's because people like me and a lot of people in our audience, they watch the news, they read the papers, and it causes a lot of anxiety and stress because there is a parade of horribles if he wins the election, and it's a huge parade of horribles. I mean, you can put it, you know, fill in the blank of any topic,

not just these cases, but abortion, women, you know, everything, like you mentioned, you name it, and there is a parade of horribles and doom and gloom. And I love, though, that you see the world in just this little, but let's also think about this positively, because it gives people hope. And you know what? That's one of the reasons why I think the Obamas were, in addition to being amazing family and amazing president, you know, one of the reasons people loved them so much, including me, was because they give people hope. And hope is, you know, it's the number one thing that keeps people going. So I actually think it's fantastic. I love it. And somebody wrote, I don't think

I can pull it up fast enough. And I put it on our text chain among all of our friends. I caught a comment, which was something directed to all of us. Somebody wrote in one of the comments in one of our shows or hot takes something along the lines of, thank God for the Midas Touch Network, because I wouldn't have been able to get through all of this shit without them. And I really appreciate that. She thank you, me, Ben and the brothers and all of that.

So you and I both and Ben and the brothers and all, we take this responsibility to both get it right and deliver it in a way that we think is honest and authentic and optimistic where I believe that and pessimistic where I don't, of course. But we take that responsibility to our audience so seriously in everything we do, in preparation, in how we discuss things, the language that we use, and all of that. And of course, I appreciate every loud spit of you and your success both here and on the network,

off the network, and on things related to the network. And people ask, how do you support what we're doing on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF? And I think today is a perfect example of the ways that we're supporting each other. We've got Dave Arenberg, who's going to be joining us next, who is the host and the curator of everything related to True Crime MTN, which is a channel that's collaborative with the Midas Touch Network. He's on with us.

You have your own show, another show, along with some of your law partners and good friends called Mistrial. And then we've got here, you know, we're all here on the Legal AF, on the Legal AF podcast. Yeah, there's Mistrial with Karen Friedman-Nipleau, of course, and Tanya Perry and Kathleen Rice, who I had the honor and pleasure of going out to dinner with last week and talking about all things podcast and life and legal AF and all of that good stuff. So we internally support ourselves. And that's a reflection of what the audience does for us. So here's the ways to support the network.

Free subscribe if you haven't already to the Midas Touch Network, help us get to 4 million, I can't believe that number. Free subscribers, I don't know when we're going to get to that number but we're going to get there soon. And already twice the 2 million mark and the 3 million mark were darn close and or on our show. So a legal AF community helps to drive a lot of the subscriptions here and a lot of the enthusiasm here and we know it and we appreciate the legal AFers, so that's one. We've got the other shows that you can watch and with a different take on things like Mistrial that we just talked about which is a podcast that appears I believe on Thursdays here on the Minus Touch Network

which is anchored by and hosted by Karen Friedman and of course Dave Ehrenberg show we just talked about. And then I'm proud to announce that in collaboration with the Minus Touch Network, I have launched a new legal AF YouTube channel. I wonder if we have a graphic for that. I'll pause for the graphic. And on the legal AF YouTube channel, which is where you can, in another pro-democracy moment, free subscribe and help us build that YouTube channel. You can find it relatively easily.

Go over to YouTube, go to at Legal AF MTN, from Midas Touch Network. Legal AF MTN. I'll be curating the top stories of the intersection of law and politics, and you can help us build that network. There'll be some original exclusive content. You can only find on the Legal AF YouTube channel, hot takes, interviews, Supreme Court analysis and all that great stuff. We look forward to you over there as well.

We're all over here. It's another place. There it is. There's another place. I've already got a series of videos up there. I think you're really going to enjoy it. Then, not last, not least, as important, more important, are our pro-democracy sponsors that Jordy and the brothers spent an entire year mapping out the calendar for this year and bringing in these sponsors. Every one of the sponsors on this network, all of us, especially the ones that

are actually doing the ad, have tried, have used, and have decided, yeah, I want to talk about that product, and I want to do a personal endorsement of that product. That's why we're doing it, and we couldn't do it without them. They know what our content is. They know what our views are, our pro-democracy views and analysis. There's no censorship. There's no outside investors. No sponsor tells us what to say. And that means they are here to support what we're doing. And you can support them, right?

And this becomes a whole biofeedback that helps the network and helps legal AF is watch the video. Don't, don't take that as a bathroom break. Watch the actual ad. If you like it and you can afford it, try it with the discounted codes that we've negotiated for you. And that will signal to them

that this is a great place to advertise. And that's how it works. Free subscriptions, all of that. And then you've got the podcast, which is over on all podcast platforms. You can rate us over there, leave reviews. And then we've got a merchandise store. We've got the legal AF merch that's for sale inside of the store.mitustouch.com.

We're going to be refreshing that store. I've been talking to Jordy about some new items that we want to try to get in there in the next few months, but that's a great place to go as well. But now, let me just preview what's coming up. As soon as we get back from commercial, we're going to have Dave Arenberg, Florida law guy, talking to us and Karen and me about the Russian collusion to try to interfere with this election by attacking and going after Kamala Harris and what is going on with a Tennessee media company that took $10 million from the Russians in order to pay it to right-wing podcasters to then sow disinformation and

misinformation against the American interests. We're going to talk about it along with Dave Ehrenberg, and then we're going to wrap it up with our Supreme Court review or Supreme Court analysis of what John Roberts has done as he's circling the drain of history as one of the worst chief justices and now we know why. But first a word from our sponsors. Traditional bed sheets, they can harbor more bacteria than a toilet seat. It can lead to acne, allergies, and stuffy noses and it's just gross. MiracleMaid offers a whole line of self-cleaning, antibacterial bedding, such as sheets, pillowcases, and comforters that prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth

and require up to three times less laundry. Using silver-infused fabrics inspired by NASA, MiracleMaid sheets are thermoregulating and designed to keep you at the perfect temperature all night long, no matter the weather. So you get better sleep every night. Miracle sheets are luxuriously comfortable

without the high price tag of other luxury brands and feel as nice, if not nicer, than sheets used by some five-star hotels. Stop sleeping on bacteria. Bacteria can clog your pores, causing breakouts and acne. Sleep clean with Miracle. These sheets are infused with silver Stop sleeping on bacteria. Bacteria can clog your pores, causing breakouts and acne. Sleep clean with Miracle. These sheets are infused with silver that prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth, leaving

them to stay cleaner and fresh three times longer than other sheets. No more gross odors. Go to trymiracle.com slash legal AF to try Miracle-M Made Sheets today. And whether you're buying them for yourself or as a gift for a loved one, if you ordered today, you can save over 40%. And if you use our promo, Legal AF at checkout, you'll get three free towels and save an extra 20%. Miracle is so confident in their product,

it's back with a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you aren't 100% satisfied, you'll get a full refund. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made. Go to trymiracle.com slash Legal AF and use the code Legal AF to claim your free three piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's trymiracle.com slash legal AF to treat yourself.

Thank you MiracleMate for sponsoring this episode. If you're like me and you're always looking for new products that genuinely improve your life, then listen to what I'm about to tell you. I'm about to tell you about one of my favorite products. It's called Lume. It's a whole body deodorant that comes in a stick, a cream, a tube, there's a body wash, cleansing bar, wipes, and I love this product because you can use it anywhere.

You could use it under your arms, you could use it in your feet, you can use it anywhere you need odor control, and it provides long-lasting 72-hour odor control. It's OBGYN developed. So it doesn't cause irritation, it smells really good. And there's great selection of various scents. I personally like clean tangerine, but there's all sorts of other ones that you can go and go online and check them out and see what they have. It's phenomenal. I really love their body wash as well. So ready to make the upgrade to Lume? We have a special offer for new customers get 15% off all Lume products with our exclusive code and link use legal AF at lumedeodorant.com that's L-U-M-E-D-E-O-D-O-R-A-N-T.com and use legal AF at

checkout. So I love it. I love how it works. I love that you can use it anywhere. And I recommend it. Lumi, thank you so much for sponsoring this episode and giving people who listen to Legal AF and use our promo code 15% off. The law firm, my Legal AF podcasting and hot take work and a new baby to raise with my wife. I've hit the apex of my stress level, leading me to feel drained at times and run down. But I would never use any type of stimulant

that would interfere with my heart-healthy routine. SuperBeats HeartChews offer a convenient, delicious plant-based way to support healthy blood pressure and circulation. Enjoy a heart-healthy boost without the jitters. Paired with a healthy lifestyle, the unique antioxidant compound in Super Beats is clinically shown to be nearly two times more effective at promoting normal blood pressure than a healthy lifestyle alone. I love Super Beats Heart Juice because it has boosted my energy level and made

me feel like I am focused on a heart healthy lifestyle. So I don't let those important to me, including my audience down. And it's so simple. I just put the individually wrapped heart chews in my little sandwich bag, along with my other vitamins and take them as soon as I step into my daily commute. It's the only heart chew I've ever used.

And that says it all. Support healthy circulation from a plant-based chew without stimulants and no artificial sweeteners or colors. In fact, more doctors, pharmacists, and cardiologists recommend Super Beats for heart health support than any other beet brand. Double your potential with Super Beats Heart Chews. Get a free 30-day supply of Super Beats Heart Juice on all bundles and 15% off your first order by going to GetSuperBeats.com and using code LegalAF. That's GetSuperBeats.com. Code LegalAF. And we're back. And we've got a special treat. We've got Dave Arenberg of our sister network, which is True Crime MTN. He's the current Palm Beach County state attorney.

And he's also known on the network. Let's bring him in before I do for I do my little trick. Here he is. Florida lawman. You only practice that once. That's great, Dave. I did something over on the on your network. And you and I went back and forth and I said, let's get you over here. I know you're friendly with Karen and with Donnie and with the others. I think it'd be a great opportunity for people to know more about Dave Arenberg. I know you just had some great life events, got married on a honeymoon, but now you're back rolling up your shirt sleeves

ready to roll out November all the way to election. And I thought it would be a nice idea on this particular topic. Let's talk about real Russia collusion. We already have, you know, the former FBI assistant director under Donald Trump Assistant director McCabe say recently that he's convinced that Donald Trump is an asset of the Russian government that he's been turned by the Russians And that he is an asset I mean, that's remarkable to hear somebody say that at same time, Donald Trump keeps playing the old broken record. I didn't collude with the Russians.

Even if that were particularly true and Robert Mueller wasn't able to directly connect the dots, Donald Trump certainly, certainly tried to use and tried to benefit from Russia trying to get Republicans, particularly him, elected, and trying to use that in his own campaign, right? Trying to use the fruit of that poisonous tree. He did it against Hillary Clinton,

and now we've got two major events in the last week and a half. We've got the Department of Justice, we'll start with that one. We've got a Russian troll farm who hires paid actors to portray in grainy videos Kamala Harris in a allegedly a hit-and-run where she left according to this fraudulent false made-up deep fake and not even a deep fake a shallow fake there where she hit

a 13 year old girl leaving her paralyzed you know why that you know why you never heard of that story because it's completely untrue and it's made up by Russian trolls they then placed it in the hands of another Russian troll who's on X as Aussie comrade. I mean, this shouldn't be a tip off where he took the fake video of a fake TV station in San Francisco and then said, MAGA have at it and three million views later, people if you if you meet them on the street and they're MAGA or right wing, they'll say, I think she was involved in a hit and run accident. Let's talk about that.

All fake. And then we've got the information that we've reported on your channel, on this channel, of Tenant Media in Tennessee, which is the home of alt-right podcasters who have millions and millions of viewers, who was captured effectively by RT, Russia TV. It's hard to believe we allow that to operate here, who gave them $10 million to line the pockets of podcasters to then take positions that were against America and in favor of Russia to American audiences.

It's hard to believe. And then we have an indictment that came out of that. Let me turn it over to the two prosecutors. You got Karen Freeman, Nick Niflo, formerly number two in the Manhattan DA's office. And you got the current Palm Beach County state attorney, the highest prosecutor in that particular county. Dave, why don't we bring you in?

Why don't you kick it off with, what did you pick up? Why don't you do the indictment of the two Russian television employees by the Department of Justice and then Karen, why don't you pick up with the Kamala Harris hit and run story? Yeah. Well, Popov, great to be here with you and Karen. It's my first time on Legal AF. You said I can come on if I bought 100 cases of super beats. So now I'm going to be eating borscht with for every meal for the next couple of months. But hey, it's good for you.

Speaking of borscht, let's talk about the Russians. So they Good segue Dave. Like that. Smooth. That's the kind of stuff we do on True Crime MTN, you know, smooth segues. I want to read you something because when Trump says that the whole Russia thing is a Russia hoax, we're seeing it in real time with our own eyes that it's far from a hoax. But you don't have to believe me, don't have to believe us here at the Midas Touch Network. Why don't you listen to

Marco Rubio? Yeah, that Marco Rubio. He was the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee back in 2016. He's a big Trump supporter and Trump considered him on the short list to be vice president. Well, they did an investigation on Russian interference and the Republican-led committee chaired by Rubio found that Russia posed a quote, grave counterintelligence threat. And this is what Rubio said in a statement with the report. We found irrefutable evidence of Russian meddling. So much for a hoax, right? Unless Rubio was part of Antifa then, I would say he's still MAGA and still,

he was telling the truth back then. And it's truthful right now because what we're seeing is a conservative effort by the Russians, by Vladimir Putin to help Donald Trump through the troll farms. You mentioned it. And by the way, one of the main perpetrators of the troll farm, that the main guy who's doing this is a former Palm Beach County deputy sheriff, a cop here in Palm Beach County, who was about to be picked up on felony warrants. And he fled the country to Russia where he's now he got political asylum from Vladimir Putin.

And he's the one putting out this stuff, these fake memes and the stories, news stories, and as far as tenant. So tenant is this company in Nashville who the Russians invested in, put money in and use them and their, their and their podcasters as useful idiots. There's a question of whether they were in cahoots with the Russians as Russian agents or useful idiots. Now, the indictments do not say that they were in cahoots with the Russians, but they were used by the Russians.

All this money came their way and they didn't ask questions. Where is all this money coming from to put out stuff that Vladimir Putin would love to put out? In fact, at the station at this tenant company, they were asked to put out this stuff from Tucker Carlson about how great Russian grocery stores are. And for them, they were like, well, that does seem a little bit too much. Like it's like that seems like over propaganda. Let's continue to do all the other stuff. You know, we don't want to hit our viewers over the head too much with Russian propaganda. So they knew

they were on the side of Vladimir Putin, people like Tim pool, who was getting paid like six figures on his podcast. And I would love that kind of gig. They claim they're victims and all this. I would like to be a victim getting paid six figures for putting out podcasts But okay, so he's putting out stuff saying that the biggest threat to the United States is Ukraine That's Vladimir Putin talking points And so, you know, that's something that'll be a stain on him and his fellow colleagues forever Because at the very least they were used by the Russians to push their disinformation

in a way to help Donald Trump. Yeah, on the on the one of the stories that these useful idiots allowed themselves to be used for and I'm not buying that was a position that the Russians wanted them to take and they willingly took it's amazing what $10 million will how far that will go in which they were going to argue that the United States and Ukraine was responsible for the mass shooting at a music festival in Moscow and these and these guys said yeah well we'll run that story I mean talk about anti-america And then they sat there clutching their pearls after the indictment came out. Oh, you can see the indictment. We were victims too. You know, $10 million

of $10 million victims. Right. And RT is very, very in cheeky fashion. I almost have to, it's almost like Evil Genius. I almost had a laugh out loud when I read it. Reuters reached RT and they said there's three things that you can believe in. Death, taxes, and Russian interference in an election. That was RT TV in a quote. That's just playing with us now. Now they're just toying with us.

And when it came to that music festival where there was a terrorist attack, ISIS claimed responsibility. It was ISIS. But that's not good enough for these guys in right-wing media who adopted the Vladimir Putin line against all evidence that it was the United States working with Ukraine on this. I mean, that's really bad because that's a sellout of our own country. Now I know you're skeptical that

perhaps they're not useful ideas. They were Russian agents. I only go by the indictment, which did not indict these guys, but you have every right to be skeptical based on their over the top positions that they took, which was clearly against American interest and for Russia. So at some point, you got to ask questions like, Hey, who am I serving here? Am I dedicated to the truth? Or am I dedicated to that bald guy who rides the horse topless in Moscow? Well, there's that but there's also you know, we all do podcasts, right? What do we do? We don't just take topics that people give us. We do our own research,

we do our own investigation, we read that I try to read the briefs myself that the lawyers are saying or the decisions myself, I don't just read, you know, what the what the news reports are on things, you know, when I when I can. And so it's just, it just makes you wonder that that what are they doing to even kind of do any basic level of investigation into whether or not something's the truth. And that's the whole MAGA playbook, right? Is they lie and there's two things that you can, that Donald Trump, I think you can count on in addition to death and taxes and Russian troll farms. One is that he's going to lie, just flat out lie, provable lies, you know,

there's about sizes of crowds or whether a judge is going to let him go to his son's graduation or whatever it is, you know, things that you can actually read the record and see that their actual flat out lies and that and then just like the deflection, right? The way he, oh, and delays, it wants to delay all his court cases. That's the other thing you can set your clock to, is this gonna try to delay things. But you know, just this deflection. It's like, you know, everybody's now, the whole MAGA right wing is just aghast that, you know, as you said, clutching out their pearls at, you know, at the Democrats saying that they're the ones causing the,

you know, the rhetoric is causing the assassinations. When actually the evidence is that their rhetoric is causing the people to go out and become more violent and to become dangerous, right? Donald Trump is the one who posts things like a baseball bat, you know, to a DA, the DA brags head, you know, he's the one with the crazy violent rhetoric that makes people lose their minds. So they just lie. And the fact that they've got these, you wanna call them useful idiots or co-conspirators frankly,

who either are intentionally looking the other way or just not doing basic level of research and work. I just think people should know that who you can trust and who you can't trust. I have a question. You use the word Russian troll farm. For those of us who don't know what a troll farm is or a Russian troll farm, can one of you explain that? Because I don't know that that's a word or it's a phrase that is thrown around and talked about, but I don't know that everyone knows what that is.

Dave, you wanna do Russian or you wanna do troll farm? Sure, sure, yeah. There was the building that was paid for by the Russians that they would have individuals and all they did was spew out lies and conspiracy theories on the internet to try to undermine our democracy. And usually they were supportive of Donald Trump, but they could also do things to try to get people

in the streets regarding Black Lives Matter. And they're putting out false stuff to try to get us to fight with each other and to hate each other. And it's part of what's called troll farm. It's like a little business that they do, paid for by the Russians, housed in some secretive building, nondescript building, who knows where it is, Siberia or

something. And that's what it is. Now, the guy from the United States from Palm Beach County, who's over there is like the head of the troll farm because he has a command of the English language. And sometimes you can tell these trolls because they say things like, you know, you bad, no like potato. You're like, well, you know, so that's not that doesn't work. But when you have an American who's over there there putting out a fake news story about Kamala Harris and a hit and run, you know, that's the kind of thing that sells. And that's one reason why you get political asylum. You know, just that story that we're referring to about the hit and run, there were some signs that it was a fraud right away. Like

it contained this a website that that they put up there called KBSF TV, a TV station in San Francisco that didn't exist. So anyone in San Francisco realized, huh, that doesn't exist. And they showed x-ray images of from the alleged accident of a bones that were broken, but it was stock images taken from an online medical journal. And they use plagiarized articles on this fake website from real news outlets. So it was just totally bogus. But in a paid actress, there's a fake paid actress claiming to be this victim. I mean, they really went.

This is more than just a, you know, let's put some in like sit behind a keyboard. I mean, this is some pretty sophisticated, you know, in my opinion, sophisticated attempts to put out false information about Kamala Harris, about, and trying to, as you said, destabilize our country in addition to that. But this guy, this ex-cop or whatever he was, sheriff ex-cop from Palm Beach County,

was he known to you? I mean, is he someone that your office prosecuted? What I mean, what can you tell us about him? Yes. Yeah, I did know him. He was going to be prosecuted. He was a cop. And he he was fired by PBSO. And so he was at odds with the sheriff and there were alleged criminal activities going on. And so he was about to be picked up on warrants. And so he fled the country. He left his family behind here and he fled the country. And he's been in Russia ever since. And he's been putting out this kind of stuff. So there was an article in the New York Times, I believe, that profiled him about it. And it's just, it's just amazing

that you go from a cop to being the number one purveyor of misinformation and a Russian troll farm. So yeah, that that's where it comes from a lot of this stuff. And you're right, this is an actress that they use. But you know, what's interesting is what Popak said early on, this is not an AI deep fake. This is not fake voices. This is old school, low technology videos, because I guess they thought that the AI stuff was either too expensive or didn't come out right. Where now you're like, hey, this is a real video of a real person,

just an actress, and it gets millions of views. Yeah, and this guy, the sheriff is not the same as Aussie comrade, right? That's somebody else. because the Aussie comrade is the one that started, he said, MAGA, run with this. And they did. And they got 3 million views about Kamala Harris. But isn't it, isn't it, let's make this point. When the Russians try to interfere, it's always on behalf of Donald Trump. You know, JD Vance said recently in a very inartful way and probably borderline calling for violence against Kamala Harris, he said, you know what the big difference is?

I use the same voice for anybody. You know what the big difference is between the two parties? The Democratic candidates haven't been shot at. Okay, I can think of many other big differences. And one of them is every time there's Russian interference, it's always on behalf of Donald Trump. They want Donald Trump to win.

Because back to what we said earlier, he's perceived to be the equivalent of a Russian asset that they can flatter their way to try to turn him against American interests. Just today, and I did a hot take on this, one of my law partners participated in 100 national security Republican leaders from various Republican administrations, including Trump's own administration, joined together today, much like Judge Ludwig did

a month or so ago. I think he gave the permission slip for others to do this. They signed a letter today, a hundred of them, who said that Donald Trump is a danger to our republic and he cannot be trusted to uphold his oath of office. And they, supporting their oath of office, have said they have no other choice but to endorse Kamala Harris

because Donald Trump will compromise American foreign policy and our security interests. That's 100 admirals, secretaries, deputy secretaries, lawyers, all working within the national intelligence community. There's a reason for that. The Russians want to put Americans at each other's throat. They want a weak America, and they see Donald Trump as the primary person who can divide this country, weaken us from within.

And that's what the Russians goal has always been. We're all about the same vintage, give or take a decade or so. Did you ever think we'd be talking about a former president and a wannabe president who has curried favor and and snuggled up, that's a legal term, with the Russians, the Russians. I mean, it's just it's just mind boggled that anybody, I said to somebody recently on our network, I don't know how Kamala Harris doesn't get 95% of the vote. I don't know how anybody could vote for this person. I don't care about this argument. It's the messenger. It's not I don't like the messenger, but I like the message and I don't care about this argument. It's the messenger. I don't like the messenger, but I like the message. I don't like the guy, but I like the policy. Forget it.

You're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. If you wanna vote for Donald Trump, go ahead. That is your God-given right as an American. If that's what you wanna do and throw away your vote that way and be on the wrong side of history and the arc of history, that's fine, but you need to do it without burying your head willfully in the sand. Don't be a useful idiot. To paraphrase our co-anchor for today, Dave Arenberg, you have to

recognize that you are the vessel for all your hopes and dreams as a president. It's corrupt. It's morally bankrupt. It's hollowed out. It's gassed. That's what you're watching. And is likely a Russian agent, a Russian asset. And we're watching it all. Karen, how about on the deep fake? Anything else we wanna comment on that? Just how shocking it is that they, that one just really surprised me in a really big way that they would go to those lengths to really create this, to

pay an actor and to create this huge deep fake. I mean, you call it a deep shallow. I think it's a shallow fake. Yeah, because I get it because it's not very good. So it's not, you know, in that way, it's not a deep fake, but Jesus, just how dangerous that is, that they're creating these things out there that eventually, the problem again with Donald Trump

is he repeats things over and over and over and over again, and people start to believe it, like this eating dogs and cats thing, or people's like, well, there must be some truth to it. And, you know, it's just unbelievable to me to show what they're more. Dave, I'm sure Dave will agree with me having I lived in Miami and South Florida for 20 years, the poor downtrodden Haitian, a very proud community. They're pillars of the community in South Florida. I count many Haitian Americans as

my friends, the US Attorney for the Southern District count many Haitian Americans as my friends. The U.S. attorney for the Southern District is a Haitian American at present. I don't know if you do, David. I go to the Haitian Bar Association gala every year. My law partners were in that community. And to see them and all the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio were doing. And an underground railroad move, often spearheaded by the established community in Miami, was to connect downtrodden people that needed a help and a hand up with jobs that were necessary to be filled in a community that was wracked by COVID and needed workers for their manufacturing community. Springfield, Ohio put out a welcome mat for the Haitian community. That's why 15,000 showed up. They're not criminals. They're not eating dogs and pets, but they are making products that you and I and the rest of America

are using as part of the economy. The alternative for Donald Trump would have been shuttering all of the manufacturing plants in Springfield, Ohio for lack of workers. I mean, only Donald Trump can turn a good, feel good story about taking hardworking Americans, sorry, hardworking Haitians who are here legally, legally under a temporary protective status, a form of asylum until they get their permanent status and turn that into some sort of eating cats and dogs that he brings up within 26 minutes of the first debate. It's just a first and only debate. It's just absolutely

crazy to me. Dave, listen, you have an open carte blanche invitation to join us anytime. And we'll do more crossover episodes like this. If you like Dave Aaronberg, and you should, you should go follow him on a curated channel that's a sister or companion channel in the Minus Touch Network called True Crime MTN with Dave Arenberg and some other contributors. And Dave, where do they find that over on YouTube? How do they find that?

Yeah. And thank you for the nice plug, Michael. And Karen, thanks for having me. You can find us at YouTube at True Crime MTN. It's just like it sounds. And we cover all these high profile true crime cases that aren't covered on the main Midas Touch Network. We're covering that Donna Adelson trial

that just got postponed, Diddy, all these true crime cases that are in the news that we have the same types of takes and hot takes and perspectives that you see and used to on the regular MTN. So check us out over there and thanks for your support. Appreciate all you guys. This was a lot of fun. I hope you'll have me back.

Oh, 1000, 1000% Dave really great. Thanks so much Dave for, for coming on the show. We really, really appreciate it. And before we let you go, just the, because all my world, everyone in my world is somehow connected, that Dave went to college with Donya Perry. So I thought, right, we live in the same dorm freshman year. So Donya and I have known each other since we were 18 years old. She's doing very well for herself. And it's so funny that we all found each other back here in the MTN family. Right?

Isn't that crazy? It's just such a small world. Great community. Great community. Dave, thanks for being here. We'll see you soon. And we'll see you on your next hot take and analysis on true crime MTN. Thank you.

All right. We're going to be back for our final segment related to the revelations that have now come out by the US Supreme Court. Some people might be thinking, why are we hearing about so many leaks? It's the third leak in two years of this Supreme Court. Does that happen often? No. No.

I've been out of law school for 34 years and we've never had leaks before. This is the third. There's one other leak that I can remember in history before, the three that have come out under the Roberts Administration the Roberts as chief justice We're gonna talk about all that and Dave's Aaron Berg joining us and now leaving is a great segue to talk about how to support The network we've got a new channel legal AF that I'll be curating. It's legal AF MTN and that's there it is. That's how you find it. Go over to that YouTube

I'll be curating the top stories the intersection of law in politics And that's, there it is. That's how you find it. Go over to that YouTube. I'll be curating the top stories, the intersection of law and politics. I'll be doing a lot of that content the way you have come to expect it. I'm still here on the Midas Touch Network doing all my hot takes here, doing Legal AF with Karen and Ben on Wednesdays and Saturdays and all of that analysis. That still stays here on the main network. But in collaboration with the Midas Touch Network, we got this new outlet, this new distribution channel that we need to build with your support. So go over and free subscribe and help us get to 250,000. Not quite the Midas Touch

numbers, not yet. By let's say by Christmas. And it's easy. Free subscribe at Legal AF MTN. We've got Karen's other show. I don't want to say it that way. It AF MTN. We've got Karen's other show. I don't want to say it that way. It sounds dismissive. We've got Karen with another show. It's called Mistrial with Karen, Donya Perry, who we just talked about, and Kathleen Rice. And that's every Thursday on the network and hot takes along the way that Karen leads. We've got the Midas Touch Network, the mama and the papa and the brothers, as I like to

call them. And free subscribe to that network. Keep that network rolling along without outside investors and with no censorship. Nobody tells us what to say, so to speak. And then you've got, of course, our pro-democracy sponsors, and we've got another of them coming up now. Let's do some brainstorming. What's something that works so well that it's basically magic? Like air conditioning, noise canceling headphones,

meetings free Fridays. What about selling with Shopify? Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. From the launch your online shop stage to the first real life store stage, all the way to the, did we just hit a million order stage? Shopify is there to help you grow.

Whether you're delivering daily news digest and hot takes on law and politics or serving up sensational scoops, Shopify helps you sell everywhere. From their all-in-one commerce platform to their in-person POS system, wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered.

Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout, up to 36% better compared to other leading commerce platforms and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify magic, your AI powered all-star. Shopify makes it easy for you to show up exactly the way you want to. Customize your online store to your style

with gorgeous flexible templates and powerful tools. Once you start selling, Shopify makes getting paid simple by instantly accepting every type of payment. And Shopify grows with your business, no matter how far or big you grow. Thanks to an endless list of integrations and third-party apps, anything you can think of from on-demand printing to accounting to chatbots,

everything you need to revolutionize your business. What I love about Shopify is how it turbocharges your dreams to make them a reality, so that no matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US and Shopify's the global force behind all birds, Rothes and Brooklinen,

and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries. Plus Shopify's extensive help resources are there to support your success every step of the way. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Legal AF or lowercase go to Shopify.com slash Legal AF and lowercase

now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. That's Shopify.com slash Legal AF. Support for today's episode comes from one skin. Did you know that your body starts accumulating senescent cells as early as your 20s? They're also called zombie cells, and these cells stop producing collagen and hyaluronic acid like they used to,

and they start secreting an inflammatory substance that makes neighboring cells dysfunctional too. There is an answer for these zombie cells though, and it comes from our sponsor, OneSkin. So this was a company founded by all women scientists, and OneSkin is the first and only skin longevity company to target cellular senescence cells with their proprietary OS1 peptide. So it's scientifically

proven to decrease lines and wrinkles, boost hydration, and help with the thinning skin that often comes with age. Don't just take my word for it, they've got over 4,000 five-star reviews for their full line of face, body, sun, and travel size products, and my mother notices and she's the one who always tells the truth as mothers often do and says wow look at your skin you look so much younger. So for a limited time you can try OneSkin for 15% off using the code LEGALAF when you check out at oneskin.co so there's no M at the end. You can your skin can stay

healthy, strong, hydrated at every age and you can treat the root cause rather than the symptoms of aging and look younger too, which, cause I'm on TV all the time, I want to look younger. So go to oneskin.co and put in legal AF. Thanks One Skin for sponsoring this episode. And we're back. I heard that one ad for Shopify and And I thought Dave Aaronberg was back with all that gas register being is that was a perfect day for Dave to join the show really

a treat for us to have that happen. And we like to do that we bring on occasional guests bring on not Donnie Perry, we do bring in Donnie Perry, but we bring in Dina Dahl, and some other people and some interviews I think you and I are going to do in 2025 that we're really looking forward to. So let's have you lead as is appropriate on the Supreme Court revelations. Another leaked memo, another Chief John Roberts entry, Cloak and Dagger. Sounds like more dagger than cloak. Why don't you take it from there, Karen? This one to me was incredibly shocking. And as

somebody who went to law school, I guess now 30 something years ago, a long time ago, and who has read many, many, many Supreme Court decisions and has followed the Supreme Court, even admitted in the Supreme Court in a ceremonial role. I've watched arguments there. It is a very storied, special institution where, you know, things don't, it's supposed to be above the law, supposed to be above politics. And there's this tradition where anyone who works there, it is the highest honor, by the way, it's the hardest job to get out of law school as a clerk for one of the justices on the United States Supreme Court when you hear

A lawyer who has that on their resume. I do not Uh that they clerked for a supreme court justice. It is you know, they're smart. You know, they're good You know, they're just incredible. It's it's truly that level It's it's the most elite of the elite if you're a lawyer and one of the things is there's this Collegial is there's this collegiality. There's this, they work together. They try to build consensus. They try to be a positive influence on the law.

And the people who, even if they were appointed by different presidents, there's this understanding that you don't, that the deliberations inside the Supreme Court remain secret, that you don't leak things out of there. And it is just frankly shocking that this level of information and detail is coming out of the Supreme Court. Now the Dobbs decision that came out, the one that overturned Roe v. Wade, that in and of itself, that we saw almost a near identical copy to the final version before it was released I don't know that that's ever happened before in the history of the United States Supreme Court

That was just unbelievable and I know that they've not only Tried to investigate that and tried to figure out where that leak came from. Of course if they know we don't They've also tried to tighten things up so that that doesn't happen again Well the article that came out by the New York Times this week by two incredible reporters, like I think Pulitzer Prize winning kind of article here, this by Adam Liptak and Jody Cantor, because the level of access and information that they got

within the United States Supreme Court is just, I think unprecedented, frankly. I don't know of any other reporting that will tell the secrets and see the secret memos, the things that are never supposed to be the light of day, certainly not while the justice is still alive, not until it is archived in history decades later when you look back at writings and memos

about what went behind certain things from a historical perspective, right? That these things were given access to reporters is just utterly surprising that there's that level of dysfunction at the Supreme Court and that level of division, that you have people who are frankly acting as whistleblowers, who want to come forward so that the world sees how terrible it is and how dysfunctional it is. And so many of us thought that the chief justice, John Roberts, who frankly, when you see him in court,

like I said, I've seen arguments in court, he seems reasonable. He seems like the guy who's trying to bring people together. And yes, he is far, he's right wing, but he seemed to be more of a peacemaker. And a lot of people thought that, and also his job as the Chief Justice is to make sure that not just that the law is decided

properly, but that there's trust and legitimacy in the court. And so many people who have clerked on the court and who are court followers and watchers have surmised over the past that he has tried really hard, given the scandals, given Clarence Thomas with all his paid for vacations and things by wealthy Nazi memorabilia collectors that he doesn't report.

That was causing the court to be looked upon as scandalous and illegitimate and people to not feel trust for it. People assumed, oh, he's trying to bring that together, and the Dobbs decision, et cetera, that maybe he was trying to be more conciliatory. But this article actually tells us the opposite, that he was the ringleader in pulling things to the right.

And frankly, it gave us a window into three really significant decisions, all involving Trump this term, and that he was the guy behind sort of the architect of how these would be handled. Now, one of them was the Colorado decision where Colorado and then other states, but Colorado primarily was trying to keep Donald Trump

off the ballot because he was found to be an insurrectionist by a judge in that state. And I think most people, myself included, who thought how were they going to rule, they were going to rule that unanimously that no, of course, one state can't take someone off the ballot and use one standard and apply one standard and another state can can do it. I mean, it just didn't pass the kind of smell test of how a functional democracy would work. So it wasn't a surprise that they would all rule that way. But what was surprising was the process.

And first of all, it was an unsigned opinion, which means none of us knew who wrote it. But this article that the New York Times published said that that was Roberts. But it also talked about the people, the other justices, which means none of us knew who wrote it, but this article that the New York Times published said that that was Roberts. But it also talked about the people, the other justices who compromised, who all saw this wanting to have a consensus

in something like this, that this is one of those things that involves our democracy. It involves a presidential election. It involves kind of, you want the court to be legitimate and you want the court to kind of come forward and come with unanimous consensus law. So it's not a partisan political divide.

And that was important to the liberal justices and Justice Roberts, of course, took advantage of that and went along with it. But so we learned that he wrote that opinion, he was the author of that opinion. But interestingly, the next two opinions were, I think, very surprising. So there was one, Fisher versus United States,

which is the one that basically said that the statute of 18 United States Code 1512, obstruction of an official, I'm sorry, 18 United States Code 1512, obstruction of an official, I'm sorry, 18 U.S. Code, yeah, 1512, obstruction of an official proceeding, that that statute was not appropriate for some of the January 6 cases because it's a white collar statute

that was supposed to be for white collar crimes involving documents and things that it didn't apply to violent crimes of violence and trying to storm the Capitol for certain people. Maybe it would for others like with the fake electors, because if you're trying to put in fraudulent election certificates, that is more white collar-ish, and that could count.

And so Fisher kind of clarified that. Now that was also written by Roberts. What the New York Times uncovered, which was surprising and interesting, was that was originally drafted by Judge Alito, Sam Alito. And timing-wise, that was right during the flag controversy where the New York Times also exposed that he had that upside down American flag

in front of his house and then the other white background with the green tree flag that was common amongst the January 6 protesters and the January 6 insurrectionists and is a symbol of MAGA, frankly. Both the upside down flag and this other flag are symbols of MAGA. That came out just days before Judge Roberts then took the case from Alito and he wrote the opinion. And that was surprising. I've never heard of, and I'm not aware of,

a case being reassigned from a justice who was part of the majority. So I thought that was also very, very interesting. And rather than trying to make it so that it was neutral, that was a pretty MAGA-friendly decision, frankly. But the final one, obviously, is the biggest shock of all had to do with the immunity decision and just how he was freezing out other justices like Sonia Sotomayor's attempt to compromise

and to reach some sort of compromise language and that he literally froze her and others out of this decision. And frankly, he's the one who pulled it so far to the right. So it was incredible reporting, but also just shocking in terms of how dysfunctional the Supreme Court is. And frankly, the fact that how this is, how there's no end in sight to this, to how far right they have gone and are going to be

and continue on. So that's what I sort of took from all of this. Yeah, I think we had always thought, and even people that are very close court watchers with a lot of inside knowledge like Judge Ludig, always thought that, I don't want to say that Roberts was a pawn and was being pulled hard right by Gorsuch, Alito, and Thomas, because Gorsuch is now far, far right on things that matter. And now the intellectual center or

center right of the court is being held if there is a center that's holding by Amy Coney Barrett. I never thought I'd say that of all the people, but it certainly wasn't going to be Kavanaugh, especially after his confirmation hearing and Dr. Ford coming out against him as a sexual assault, a sexual abuser. He was never going to recover from that. And so he's center right right, but that center right is Amy Coney Barrett, who's quickly becoming the intellectual center of the court. And what we learned from the article in the reporting and the memo leak is that John Roberts is not being pulled unwillingly far right. He's actually the one that is manipulating his other, the fellow brethren, fellow parts, his colleagues there. He's assigning himself all the major

decisions. I think you said that Alito wrote a draft. He's assigning himself all the major decisions. I think you said that Alito wrote a draft. He didn't write a draft, but he was assigned a draft of that. And then Roberts recognizing that maybe the upside down flag was a bad look for the Alito family as they flew the flag of insurrection. Maybe he shouldn't also be writing. But if that was the case, I really don't get where the limits of the ethics are here. If Alito wasn't good enough because he was tainted by the upside down flag, then why did he get to sit in on the immunity decision and participate in the writing of that decision? So that made absolutely no sense to me. If that was the reason that the decision was whipped away from Alito and given over to,

Roberts kept it for himself, then why wasn't he bounced from the other decisions? I mean, at the very least, I guess he says, well, I'm not gonna take on, I guess you gotta pick your battles, right? I'm not gonna get them off the bench on this. So I'm just going to do the one thing I can do as a chief justice in assigning the decisions, which is to say I'm taking it back for you.

I'm sure there was a conversation between the two of them and a challenge as to why you did that. I'm sure it just wasn't like, okay. So we'll have to hear about that, as you said, in the memoirs and the annals of history, when memoirs are written, when people come off the bench. But the fact that, you know, he basically played Sauter-Major, played Kagan and Katanji Brown Jackson, and then just wrote whatever the heck you wanted. I mean, the liberals held out, the moderates held out some hope that when Chief Justice Roberts took over, that part of their position, their analysis would hold. And the thing that came, the one thing you didn't mention that

for me was also a great takeaway that I was found shocking, is that I always assumed that the ones that didn't want the decision, that wanted to postpone this decision making on the indictment, I didn't think it was gonna be Thomas and some of the conservatives and the right wing MAGA. They were the ones apparently on the immunity decision that did not wanna interfere with the election results and didn't want to issue an immunity decision.

And that looks like it might've been Gorsuch and Thomas and one other, maybe Kavanaugh, who said, yeah, we don't want to do that now. Let's not embroil the court more than it has to in this presidential politics and Donald Trump. And it was the moderates and the liberals who miscalculated and said, no, this must be decided right now. Because they were hoping there'd be a there'd be a trial. But it was never, let's be frank, by July when this decision was issued,

given the delays starting back in April with oral argument, oral argument of the last day of the term, which was set by the Chief Justice, the decision coming out, the last decision of the last day, when decisions are issued in July when they're all off on vacation, and fancy Federalist boot camps like a lot of them go to on the right side. There was never, we were never going to get that DC election case up and running in time for the November election. So I don't know what the Sotomayor and others were thinking, but I would have rather, I think, had the case hanging over Donald Trump with no decision made at all than have the decision that came out that basically gave a wind at a sail

for his followers to support that, see, he's immune from everything that he does. But anyway, that's the cards we've now been dealt. I thought it was a fascinating set of reporting. I agree with you. They should get the Pulitzer Prize for that. They'll be fighting it out with ProPublica, who comes out with some amazing reporting as well. If you want to support great reporting, Midas Touch is building its first class journalists and reporters and newsrooms led by Ron Filipkowski on the Midas Touch website. That's a great place to go for news and all of that. And then of course, you've got all the other great ways. Got the new Legal AF YouTube channel, where I'll be curating some of the top stories of the intersection of law and politics. Free

subscribe. We already have, as of the taping, as of the recording today, the live recording, we've got 10,000, 10,000 in less than a day have come over to the Legal AF YouTube channel at Legal AF MTN. Support Karen as well here. And on the Midas Touch Mistrial, where they take an interesting take as three former prosecutors and one member of Congress and give you a unique voice on these issues you can't find anywhere else, including on Legal AF.

And then you can follow our pros and support our pro democracy sponsors. Karen, it's the highlight of my week when I give you the last word. Some people say, Popeye gives you the last word, but then he says something at the end. Well, it depends what the last word is. If it ends, it's like a dismount from a gymnastics routine.

If it ends, we're done, then I say goodnight. If it ends sort of with a hopeful comment that needs a little back and forth, then I jump in. But I'm thinking she's gonna wrap it up today with this amazing final comment. No pressure, here you go. You know, it's, I always think about what I'm gonna say at the end.

And there's so much going on in the world. You know, there's so much we could talk about, positive, negative, Trump, you know, all sorts of things. And today, I feel like ending the show just by telling you, Popak, how much I value and cherish you and our friendship and our collaboration here. And I'm just so proud when I hear about other podcasters like the ones we talked about with David, just that don't do their own research, that don't care about the truth, that are only in it for the money, frankly. It just makes me even more proud to be here on this journey with you, with Ben, with the

Midas Touch Network, with the Midas Mighty and all the Legal Aid efforts. So that's what I want wanna just end with today. And I'm gonna graciously say, I appreciate you. It's not, I'm not taking away your final word. I appreciate it. I have to respond and say how much I consider Karen and her family to be my family. And that's what happens in a good family like that.

We appreciate each other, we support each other. Sometimes we have disagreements about things that happen in life like any good family. I've thrown a dinner roll at Thanksgiving, it happens. But we appreciate our family here on the Legal AFers and the Midas Mighty, who without whom, them choosing to join our community and our journey as part of theirs, we wouldn't even have anything to be talking about. You

and I would just be going to dinner once a week to catch up. And I'm glad we're able to do this. So until our next Legal AF, which will be on, well, this will be interesting. You may see Karen again or some combination of Karen and some other people because I know people are like, Ben said on Saturday that there's a baby coming and there is a baby still coming. It's just, everything's great. Everything's great over there in my cellist land. But this time I don't think you're gonna see him on Saturday. I could be wrong.

And you may see Karen again or some combination of Karen, some other, some other podcasters. So until our Saturday edition, whoever's on it, of Legal AF this coming week, Miss Trial tomorrow, true crime MTN, I guess every day. This is Michael Popak with a shout out to the Legal Aid efforts and the Midas Mighty.